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journey today with Bite. Hello,

2:05

hello, we are your usual hosts of

2:07

Red Handed, but we've got a surprise!

2:11

Because in today's episode as the title

2:13

might suggest, we are of course talking

2:15

about the cult that is the Twin

2:17

Flames universe, and it is all sorts

2:19

of batshit crazy. But Hannah and I

2:21

have been joined by some very special

2:23

podcast friends. We have one of them

2:25

used to be on the BBC. We

2:30

went over to Glaggenweil and met up with Jordan

2:32

North of all people, and

2:34

his friend William Hanson who is

2:36

not only an etiquette coach. There are

2:38

royal connections abound. So yeah, we had a really

2:40

really great time. If you don't know who they

2:42

are, don't worry, they basically do the hit British

2:45

podcast, Help I Sex With My Boss. It is

2:47

absolutely huge in this country and so we were

2:49

super super excited to do this collab with them.

2:52

And yeah, hopefully we all learn something new about

2:54

cult and you guys get to discover a brand

2:56

new podcast that you will also love.

2:58

It's a full audio recording of our

3:01

episode, but if you would like to, take it

3:03

up a notch. You can head

3:05

on over to the Red Handed YouTube

3:07

and watch the entire episode in video

3:10

format because they do that and

3:12

it was great. So yeah, check

3:14

it out, Twin Flames universe with Help I

3:17

Sex With My Boss aka Help I Sex

3:19

With Red Handed, even though I wanted to

3:21

call it Help I Murdered Red Handed, check

3:23

it out. YouTube video also out now. Hello

3:26

and welcome to this very

3:29

special episode where we're

3:31

linking up Help I Sex With My

3:33

Boss with Red Handed, two podcasts that

3:35

are united. We're William and Jordan from

3:37

Help I Sex With My Boss. Hello

3:39

to you. We're Hannah and Sooty from Red

3:41

Handed. And welcome to our lovely studio. Lovely

3:43

to meet you here. It is very

3:46

lovely, do you know? We share one with loads of people.

3:48

So whenever we come in, everyone's unplugged shit and it's

3:50

just a nightmare but this is lovely. No, get

3:52

your own. And we're working on it. Yeah, okay.

3:54

We should start as well by saying sorry that

3:56

I'm late. we

4:00

were going to be solving today, the

4:02

mystery of the disappearance of Jordan North,

4:04

which would have worked with the vibe. William's

4:07

very used to it. Also, I should

4:09

apologise for moving this back four times.

4:11

Is it now we've changed? Absolutely

4:14

fine. We are excited to be here.

4:16

We're particularly enjoying all of the real

4:18

plants that you guys have. Well, thank you

4:20

so much. Point those up. Yeah, for the fresh delivery.

4:23

We were explaining there's a certain demographic

4:25

of our audience that hated our fake

4:27

plants. Yes. They are correct.

4:29

That's a snake plant there. Was it a

4:31

spider plant? Yes. Snake. Snake.

4:36

Okay, can I just say when Tony, our

4:38

plant, Gay delivered that... I'm

4:41

still calling with Plant J. He

4:43

said they are indestructible. That's what I was

4:45

going to say. Well, the fact you

4:47

killed it gives me... What did you do to

4:49

it? I think I've over-watered it. Oh, wow. Because

4:51

they're not really meant to be watered. How often

4:54

did you water? Every week. That's

4:56

what he said for us to do. Oh, well... How

4:58

much though? Just like a jug. A

5:00

jug? Yeah, I'm not very good at jugs. How many are

5:03

you jugs? Like a milk jug? A

5:05

nine-inch jug? And that was like a... A chamber pot?

5:08

One of those plastic ones you use

5:10

for... A guffle jug. Oh, right.

5:12

Okay. It's like a Pyrex one.

5:14

But same set, but plastic. Plastic Pyrex. Lovely. Yeah. Anyway.

5:18

Yes. And

5:21

I've just got back of a stag, do you thought? Oh, no.

5:23

I want to hear about the stag. Are you allowed to talk about it? No.

5:26

It was very good. It

5:28

was very good. We all had

5:30

a lovely time. Good. And that's

5:33

the story. Girls. Do you like girls?

5:35

How would you identify? Whatever you

5:37

like. Ma'am. Ma'am. Ma'am.

5:40

Ma'am. Tell us, what is

5:42

Red Handered about? Well,

5:44

we are a true crime

5:47

podcast hosted by the two of

5:49

us. We don't know how long

5:51

we've been running. We were trying to figure that out

5:53

before we started recording. And it's somewhere between six and

5:55

13 years. We don't know. Oh,

5:57

wow. Wow. seven

6:00

years but then I feel like I was saying seven years

6:02

for about four years so I don't know. Maybe it's like

6:04

when you get to a certain age and you've just been

6:06

that age for a really long time. Yeah, still 27 years.

6:08

Like Jordan. And

6:11

his media age. So Red

6:13

Handed has been running for some

6:15

length of time and we are

6:17

a weekly true crime podcast and every

6:19

single week we do a different case on the show and

6:22

we don't stick to British cases just because we are

6:24

British we go all over the world and we've done

6:27

quite the range we've done things from kind

6:30

of voodoo murders

6:32

to alleged child sacrifice cases

6:34

to incest hillbilly

6:37

sex cults. We've done a few

6:39

of those. We've done political assassinations.

6:41

We've done kind of current cases

6:43

that we did cover Lucy Letby

6:45

for example and also

6:48

celebrity sickos. We've done Jimmy Savile and

6:51

Ian Watkins not the guy from

6:53

Steps. No, the other one. From Lost Offers. Just

6:56

to be clear. And we also do Short Hands

6:58

which is on Tuesday. It's an exclusive about stuff

7:00

that we think is interesting like when NASA

7:03

wanked off a dolphin. I'm sorry. NASA wanked off

7:05

a dolphin. Don't you know about it? Episode one.

7:07

No, I don't. Episode one of Short Hand produced

7:09

by Red Handed will tell you all about

7:11

it exclusively when I was in music. That sounds

7:14

like a dilemma we get sent there. Should

7:16

I wank off a dolphin? Help her wank off a

7:18

dolphin. That's the episode cycle. There

7:23

are actually some pretty good documentaries out

7:25

there. On that topic. But you should listen to

7:27

our Short Hand first. I want you to go watch

7:29

the documentary. Nothing is good at that. No. And right

7:31

back at you. Can you explain for Red

7:34

Handed listeners who found their way here what

7:37

you're not such a podcast

7:39

of? I will say for

7:41

audio only listeners directly in my

7:44

eyeline is a cloner willy kit.

7:49

And it says vibrating at the bottom. Just

7:51

in case anyone was worried that it

7:53

didn't vibrate. It does. This is

7:55

brilliant. Yeah. We're not a

7:57

sex podcast. We are a

7:59

podcast. that likes to

8:01

help people with modern day problems and

8:03

dilemmas and over the years seven years

8:06

now is it? Six

8:08

and a bit. Six and a bit

8:10

years that we've been doing it. We

8:12

have had many different problems and dilemmas.

8:14

One included a cloner willy. It

8:17

was a daughter with a house sitting for her parents

8:19

who went on holiday, looked

8:21

under the parents bed, already a red flag,

8:24

found a shoe box, found the

8:26

dildo, had a nice

8:28

time, weird because it's your parent

8:31

like mmm and then

8:33

thought that's phenomenal, had a great

8:35

time with it, thought I'll buy

8:37

one of those, look for a

8:39

brand name and on it it

8:41

said cloner willy. And it was

8:43

obviously cloned from her dad.

8:48

I don't think you should share

8:51

those things. That is worse than

8:53

anything we've ever covered. Is

8:55

that a true crime? It's a crime. Is that

8:57

incest? Yes. I'm gonna say it's as close as

8:59

you need to get. Not

9:07

that you need to get. No, if you're incest curious that's as close

9:09

as maybe you

9:15

should get. Wow. I didn't know

9:17

that was a phrase. Anyway, away

9:19

from cloner willy we also

9:21

do help people with

9:23

their problems with lemons such as if they've had

9:25

problems with their diplomatic parking bay as a commission.

9:27

We do properly. I like to say that one

9:29

just for a bit of light and shade. So

9:31

it's not all cloner willies and sex

9:35

because we're not a sex podcast. Yeah, we

9:37

get bits like who should pay

9:39

for the bill and what

9:42

did we have recently that we both

9:44

really liked? Oh this was a good

9:46

one. Oh yes, we had a very

9:48

good one recently about if you split

9:50

up with whoever you're dating and there

9:52

are photos of them on your profile.

9:54

Do you delete? Do you archive? Do

9:57

you leave them there? Particularly, probably it's

9:59

more I guess it becomes more of

10:01

an issue when you then have someone else that you're

10:03

dating with your single, probably

10:05

it's probably less of a taboo. Well

10:08

I said just archive, but

10:10

equally I don't think you

10:13

necessarily, if you feel you need to do something, it's

10:15

better to archive it rather than delete it, certainly you've

10:17

got the memory. But

10:19

also they're part of your past, so you

10:21

can't rewrite history, I'm sure you know full

10:23

well on your podcast, you know what happened

10:25

happened. Yeah that's why we have a laptop

10:27

so we don't get it wrong. Yes well

10:30

done, we don't have laptops. So

10:33

shall we explain how this episode's going to work then? Yes

10:35

and whilst you do that, would you like a gin and

10:37

a bonnet? I'd be waiting for you to add that. Well

10:39

this is the drink that we drink. I'll

10:41

let you set this one up. On our podcast we

10:43

always start with a gin and a bonnet,

10:45

we did it on our very first ever

10:47

pile and the

10:50

idea was we were going to bring in different cocktails

10:52

every week. And William started us

10:55

with a gin and a bonnet because

10:57

it was the Queen Mother's favourite drink

10:59

and the late Queen's favourite drink. So

11:02

we get pretty squishy on it and

11:05

it gets, it's really strong and

11:07

quite dreading it after stag do

11:10

to be fair. The

11:13

one we were then, we were going to

11:15

do like a Green Hope cocktail as well,

11:17

which is half a lager, half a WKD.

11:19

Nice. Yeah from Uni Day. Thank you very

11:22

much. We also have

11:24

a signature red-handed cocktail. Which does come from

11:26

the Uni Days. Not nearly as

11:28

refined as this. No, it's not. What's yours?

11:30

If and when we do a follow-up to this,

11:33

we shall have to host you guys and

11:35

give you our signature drink. What's the serious

11:37

one? The signature drink of the spooky

11:40

bitches as our followers call themselves. They

11:43

call themselves that, we don't call them that. I

11:45

call them sausage. That's

11:48

nice, I love being called sausage, that sounds weird. It

11:52

is of course a turbo wine, which

11:55

is white wine

11:57

or protectors, if you're feeling fancy. with

12:00

energy drink. Oh wow,

12:02

okay. Cheers! So the spooky bitches

12:05

and the gindivas. The spooky bitches

12:07

and the gindivas. Oh

12:09

you know what? That's nicer than I thought it was gonna

12:11

be. It's really nice but it's lethal.

12:14

It gets you really squishy. What we don't

12:16

have today is the size of lemon or

12:18

orange. A little bit of a garnish. I

12:20

was gonna say. But it's nice. Obviously

12:25

drink responsibly, it's very very lethal. I'm gonna

12:27

get hammered. Why don't you come in? Yeah.

12:29

Or you'll fit right in. Can we do

12:31

our bit before we get hammered, please?

12:35

So in the first half of the episode,

12:37

you're gonna treat William and I. What does

12:40

it mean William? No, William and I. William and me.

12:42

William and me to what you usually get up to

12:44

in your podcast. Did you know that? Yes.

12:47

It's because if you take out the other name

12:49

it should still make sense. So if you're like,

12:51

treat William and I, but you wouldn't say treat

12:53

I too, you would say treat me too.

12:55

So it would be William and me. Correct.

12:58

Thank you. Not that you

13:01

needed that but I'm just backing you up. Yes.

13:03

I'm feeling that we are more

13:08

similar. I don't mean that

13:10

rudely, Hannah. I'm just comparatively.

13:12

There is still a bit

13:16

of a gap. You're more William, you're more

13:18

Jordan, that's the thing. And you're gonna show

13:20

us what you do in your podcast and

13:22

then in the second half the tables are

13:24

turned and we're gonna show you what we

13:26

do in Help I Sex With My Boss.

13:28

Wonderful. Right. Cheers. Cheers.

13:30

No clinking apparently it's common. No, it's very common. We're

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15:57

We know that you guys are not

15:59

as it. Can you do? We

16:01

know that you just deal with

16:03

topics that are sexual in nature.

16:05

So when we talk about this

16:07

collaboration between sexes, I'm right handed.

16:09

We put our thinking caps on

16:11

loan at what is the topic

16:14

that's best. Highlights what we both

16:16

do. I say well and

16:18

we ended up. With. The

16:20

idea that much because. Because.

16:25

They. Sent me some people off which is

16:27

all speciality of kind. And. It must

16:29

always gets very sexual which will die you

16:31

know effect on us. Is.

16:33

Kind of. Sometimes you'll special j.

16:36

The resources on the line. In is it

16:38

always goes. That said out use sexes or

16:40

people in and also think that missing from

16:42

that would be cult members life be it

16:44

meaning family, love, status or higher purpose was

16:46

ever good looking for something? Yeah and that's

16:48

one of the misunderstandings about cult that she

16:50

that we have realized after doing years of

16:52

this. If people often think that the people

16:54

who end up and cults are like kind

16:56

of like have nothing else going on, they

16:59

are vulnerable people but that they're sort of

17:01

dragged in just for the body cam. Know

17:03

nice that cult leaders because as a narcissistic

17:05

can because they want the top for work.

17:07

They wanna go off the people the have something

17:10

to offer say they want to go off the

17:12

people who are smart who are capable who was

17:14

able to deliver and that's actually why. People.

17:17

Who are very capable? End up in Colts because like

17:19

kind of said, they're looking for a higher purpose and

17:21

they feel like it's missing from allies and nobody joins

17:23

the come on purpose. Nobody.

17:25

Knows that doing. Yeah, I just looking for

17:27

something else like. As

17:29

egotism sneezes that. Are

17:32

you going to be a desperate? Not An added.

17:36

this it's escape goes along with that

17:38

this of new age thinking i also

17:40

something with lot about cult says the

17:42

weekend as import actually does enter it

17:44

quite lot because to and deprived people

17:46

of protein means that they're not able

17:48

to think very clearly the that's why

17:50

coats of and feed them embassies that

17:52

groove and stuff like that because the

17:54

more broken down you other less protein

17:56

you have in your diet the less

17:58

like resistant you are or the

18:00

less critical thinking you're likely to

18:02

do. It sounds like boarding school. No.

18:05

A touch. Sounds like a few places

18:07

I've worked. Yeah. That's

18:10

so interesting. No, there's

18:12

a lot. Cult

18:14

leaders are typically, if you look

18:16

at their sort of psychological profile, they'll

18:18

be very deeply narcissistic. I mean, that's

18:21

not a shock to anybody. And

18:23

basically, typically what they want

18:25

is to kind of feel like gods on earth,

18:27

right? They have their following. It's

18:29

very separated from mainstream culture.

18:33

They've got them typically on a compound

18:35

or gathered somewhere. And these

18:37

people are completely beholden to them. One

18:39

of the things with cults is like, you shouldn't get

18:41

your information from anyone else except the cult leader. We're

18:44

talking the level of sort of, you know, psychopathology

18:46

when it comes to cults. And

18:49

that's exactly what's going on in the case that we've picked

18:51

to talk about today. Can

18:53

I ask the cult leaders know this article? Do they

18:55

say I'm going to start a cult or? It's

18:58

a good question. Generally

19:00

not. Yeah. Generally,

19:02

you'll see them and

19:05

the majority that we see,

19:07

and I've covered on red handed, do start off as

19:10

Christian ministers. And

19:12

then, particularly in the

19:14

States, as like evangelical ministers,

19:16

and then they're like, oh, I quite like

19:19

everyone's listening to what I'm saying. And

19:21

then tithing is a very Christian

19:23

thing. You're supposed to give 20 percent depending on

19:25

which nomination Christian you are. So it's

19:27

already built in within the doctrine. So

19:32

it gets a bit easy to be like, I know I

19:34

said 20 percent, but actually everything you've ever

19:36

owned has to come straight in. Yeah,

19:38

I think one of the things we find

19:40

with cults is like Hannah said, it's easier

19:43

to start the cult based on some understanding

19:45

that people already have. So if it's an

19:47

existing religion, it's easy. You're asking a smaller

19:49

leap of people to make rather than something

19:52

completely brand new. And

19:54

so that age of cults that we saw, especially in the sort of 70s

19:56

and 80s, was also this kind

19:59

of mysticism. So people in the West were

20:01

getting very jaded with Christianity and what was going

20:03

on here. So then you had some of these

20:06

cult leaders who would like take a little trip

20:08

to India and then they'd come back and they'd

20:10

be like I found the answer.

20:12

It is in Eastern mysticism and that gave

20:15

people this feeling of well maybe this will

20:17

be the answer to why I feel there's

20:19

a missing purpose in my life etc etc.

20:21

Cast off your material possessions and give them

20:24

to me. Yeah don't throw them away. Give

20:26

them to me. So yeah like

20:28

Hannah said at the side kind of the cult is

20:30

always there to exploit people. It

20:32

will be for slave labor or for

20:34

sex or for money or something but

20:37

the people in the cult are always

20:39

being exploited by this highly narcissistic psychopathic

20:42

leader that sits at the front of it.

20:44

So yeah we've got a very

20:46

interesting case but okay we're gonna ask you some

20:48

questions. So this is to understand how much you

20:51

guys already know about cults. So in

20:53

2019 which celebrity

20:56

started their own cult on a private island

20:58

off the coast of Croatia. Oh

21:02

I interviewed him. Danny from 30

21:11

seconds to McFly. I've been called now.

21:14

I interviewed him not long ago. Not

21:17

the one that you not Halsey.

21:20

That sounds like a cult name though. Quite

21:22

famous actor as well. He

21:30

was Joker. Yes and Alice Beyers

21:33

Club. Yeah don't tell me. Joel,

21:36

Jed, Jed. Jedwards. You're so close.

21:38

It's not Jed but oh why

21:40

can't I just admit that? Go

21:42

on tell us. Oh don't.

21:44

It's a very American first name. What

21:46

does it begin with? Jay. You're so

21:48

close. Oh what's

21:50

it called? Jed. Gerard. I'm

21:52

gonna give it to you that's so close.

21:55

It's Gerard Lesow. Gerard Lesow. Yes. Sorry. So

21:57

yes. It

22:00

is true. If you give it but a

22:02

quick Google, you will see that there is

22:04

a lot of pictures of this island. I

22:06

think they've called it Mars Island, the private

22:08

island off the coast of Croatia where they

22:11

are. And to be clear, because

22:13

you know, we don't want to get anybody

22:15

sued or anything. Jared Leto has never officially

22:17

commented on this group. He's never

22:19

acknowledged it. He's never said anything, but he's

22:22

definitely there. Not

22:24

sure how that ends up leading. There's

22:27

pictures. Yeah, it's dressed

22:29

as Jesus. It does

22:31

look a bit biblical, doesn't it? And he's

22:33

really leaning into it. So the

22:35

group call themselves the Echelon. The

22:38

group, I'm saying they're a cult, but it

22:41

looks like a cult. You know, I was just saying about

22:43

cults. But there are,

22:45

like Hannah said, there's plenty of pictures of

22:47

Jared Leto on this island, dressed very much

22:49

like Jesus Christ superstar, while hordes

22:51

of people also wearing long white robes

22:54

are pruning over him. That's the only

22:56

way to describe it. Like they're trying

22:58

desperately to touch him. It's all very

23:00

weird. And if you actually check out

23:02

the hashtag, hashtag Mars Island, there is

23:04

an official post on there with the

23:07

caption, quote, yes, this is a cult. So

23:09

don't know. Don't know. Maybe

23:12

it's a bit too on the nose. There are people

23:14

on the page who say this is just a publicity

23:16

stunt. And maybe that's true. But do

23:18

the people who are there know that?

23:20

I don't know. I

23:22

don't know if they know that part of the We

23:25

went to Benadorm last year for an

23:27

episode. Maybe next year we could

23:29

go to Mars Island. Should

23:32

we do a live recording? Because you know old Jared.

23:34

If you'd have said to me of all the people you've ever

23:36

interviewed, who do you think could start a cult? It probably would

23:38

have been him. Oh, that's

23:40

good. Okay. Maybe we should

23:43

infiltrate. Maybe we should go and

23:45

pretend to join the cult. Yes. And then make a

23:47

little no, because that's how they get you. And then

23:49

you start believing in. I

23:51

don't think I would. We

23:54

can de-program them. I

23:57

wouldn't fall for this cult business. If anyone's

24:00

join in a cult it's not me or

24:02

William no it's you to

24:04

be I'm just looking for a higher

24:07

purpose yes we'll be there we are shared

24:10

dads right next question Charles Manson

24:15

was the infamous leader of the

24:17

Manson family and but

24:20

a member of which wildly successful 60s

24:23

band briefly fell in with the Manson

24:25

family in 68 I know was

24:28

it one of the Nodlands no no

24:30

good guess was this

24:32

the Kool-Aid one no that's Jonetown

24:34

and it was played but don't ask

24:38

it was a female no

24:40

I was thinking a

24:43

six it what national see Americans

24:46

I thought it was I was gonna say Stevie

24:48

Nicks but that wasn't Stevie Nicks no it was

24:50

a 70s it's a man we'll give you that clue can

24:54

you sing one of their tunes um

24:57

it'sIT I can Like

25:05

their here Tony

25:08

Christie Anna

25:15

Into Kool-TV It

25:17

was my favourite kinda joke I obviously met

25:19

you guys You

25:22

could at least pretend for that Should we edit

25:24

one of them? Oh

25:26

yes! I've seen the film Beach

25:30

Boys What's he called? Oh,

25:32

Tony Wilson No, yes I

25:34

thought you said Tony but you didn't I said Tony Wilson

25:37

It was Dennis Wilson Dennis Wilson Dennis

25:39

Wilson The Drama Have you seen that film?

25:41

Oh no it wasn't the drama I don't think I have

25:43

the main guy But anyway Ah, okay

25:45

no It was the drama Yes Wow

25:48

And he met Manson in 68 And then moved in with him

25:50

and the family for a bit And then they all got gonorrhea

25:54

Hello To be fair It's

25:57

something like the precious week at U-M very

26:00

much pressures at uni. You can cut this

26:02

if you think it's gross but someone, a

26:04

friend of mine, received a text

26:06

the other day from a lady of questionable

26:08

affection that said I've got the gone gone you should get

26:10

tested. Gone gone brilliant. How

26:15

shall I know this? Why are we

26:17

infantilising gonorrhea? What are we going to do?

26:19

Oh wow. He let them

26:21

move into his like million dollar house

26:25

and they all just got the gone gone and taking

26:27

loads of drugs and then he couldn't get them out

26:29

so he just left. And then I

26:31

think Mance showed up at a different house with a bullet

26:34

with his name and with Dennis

26:36

written on it as like a

26:38

threat. Yeah. Bad news. Bad news.

26:40

Yeah. He'd never think it

26:43

would you? No. Alright question three. Final

26:45

question. Chance for glory. Joaquin

26:47

Phoenix, River Phoenix and Rose McGowan

26:50

were all born into and raised

26:52

in which cult? They had a really

26:54

weird name but I can't remember it.

26:57

What was it? It's very, if you don't

26:59

know it's very hard to, you're not going

27:01

to guess this one. Should we just tell

27:03

you? Yeah. So the cult was called the

27:05

Children of God cult and Hannah and I

27:07

have been doing this as we said for

27:09

an unspecified number of many years and we've

27:11

done a lot of cults in that time

27:13

and this is probably the most messed

27:17

up cult to ever have existed.

27:19

In what way? We

27:21

debated this, right? We don't want to

27:24

bring the whole vibe down on Sexted.

27:27

So Hannah is currently actually

27:30

researching and writing our imminent

27:32

episode that is I believe going out next

27:34

week, the week after this is released on

27:37

our, on Red Handed. But how

27:39

much do you really want to know? Because people like tell me I want to

27:41

know but I'm like do you really want to know? On a

27:43

scale of normal to Cloner Willy. It's

27:45

part Cloner Willy.

27:51

In a similar vein. It's

27:54

really, really horrible stuff. We can tell you what flirty

27:56

fishing is. The flirty fishing side of it, I don't

27:59

think so. Lol. Damaging.

28:02

Seattle Christ as he I would

28:04

cook. It's a crisis. So basically

28:06

what the Cult did was very

28:08

purposely attract in very attractive young

28:10

people, men and women and then

28:12

they would use them to go

28:15

out on the streets and basically

28:17

and that clubs and bars and

28:19

whatever. And Lou Retton potential. New

28:21

recruits I would also takes for a dancing

28:23

lessons specifically to go into. Upper.

28:26

Upper echelon, all the Society of

28:28

yes and. Yes to with a different

28:30

as. A So

28:32

yeah it was. It was basically test

28:34

focus the Christ. It was basically that

28:37

the cult being like your bait. Though,

28:39

do some flirty fishing and the breeze and

28:41

I may be better off. The problem appropriate

28:43

was attempts to pray clara Yeah, And that

28:46

if they work because that's how you grow a

28:48

towel. And they called them jesus babies because Jesus

28:50

is used to man as a tool to deliver

28:52

the baby to the cause for the kimono numbers.

28:57

Here, but it all goes on as fast.

28:59

As an ally, I just keep myself to

29:01

the so. If

29:05

anyone comes up the interest born dances yoda

29:07

don't go up because generally I could so

29:09

and will nowhere and you know if I

29:11

could so easily be. Tied.

29:13

Into a consequence is. No,

29:16

I guess I'd say you Jordans

29:18

or Jordan com centers people's yeah

29:20

so you only would have to

29:23

be a fleshy fish and stops.

29:25

says. Of just and doom would just say

29:27

yes to go along with it's to to

29:30

be nice Israelis and on that people Yes

29:32

yes he hates confrontation him so he wouldn't

29:34

say no. This is light of how come

29:36

your way. He. Would be the

29:38

oh right yes it is nice in

29:41

that lets new out as the occult

29:43

stream yet some. Sources

29:46

told them Now besides just go

29:48

on what? telling. How familiar are

29:50

you with the concept of a twin flame? Is

29:52

William my to influence? I

29:55

don't even know it. It's or inflaming Saratbhai

29:57

things. I know I'm no. Holding

30:01

him celebrate. It.

30:03

Was at the idea that you are you one solvency,

30:06

separate bodies and then you are drawn to each other.

30:08

Throughout your life. Yeah to see

30:10

my Mahal, many unions, students My

30:12

twin also. Dot

30:17

sights with flags out quite nicely. A

30:19

sharing a sound you can't possibly be upon him find

30:21

each other but somehow is someone in the same. Countries

30:24

you know in a village in Eritrea. Yeah,

30:26

ah, Cats is good because we're just friends

30:28

from up like this. Young man's name is

30:30

sex. We I. Wanted

30:33

to let you guys the and I

30:35

have to I didn't wanna try to

30:37

flock to as I love that was

30:40

going on here and say yeah Basically

30:42

the the idea is if you meet

30:44

your twins lane you will supposedly seal

30:46

and incredibly intense connection to this sense

30:49

because you are essentially to half of

30:51

the same hope you share assaults. And

30:54

this twins same would be your perfect lover.

30:56

And. Would be the person that would change

30:58

the entire course. Of your Life The

31:01

F were Jordan has pretty much

31:03

my some a reminder that is

31:05

so far as. To data sets them

31:07

he'd I love my email say something far

31:09

they us and we. Went to Monaco

31:12

together once and services. Office

31:15

I. Lifted.

31:19

My darling, that that would affect the market So

31:21

many rules. the six keys out the ball. Yourselves,

31:25

our me out of sex care about

31:27

our yes yeah once answer and I

31:29

were on holiday in Romania in a

31:31

very long. Wanted feeling air Bnb and we

31:33

have separate petrie. That we were invested

31:35

interest that we were just going to wake up and see

31:37

someone standing the doors of likes. Jazz?

31:40

Yeah, fair enough. Listed on

31:42

says i'm a key together and then come

31:44

back and go to bed together as are

31:46

not sleeping at my separate rent is no

31:48

but adorns reluctance to hold your hand. William

31:50

Families and Downs to me First, now I'm

31:52

feeling some in the next embossed like Barnes.

31:55

What I do have to say that doesn't

31:57

mean he's not your twin flame in. Fact

31:59

is too. be a sign that he

32:01

is because twin flames are not the

32:03

same thing as soulmates. Now soulmates is

32:06

obviously a term we're more familiar with

32:08

in the mainstream. Now it might

32:10

sound a bit arbitrary the fact that I'm saying

32:12

twin flames and soulmates are different, but it actually

32:15

becomes a really, really important part

32:17

of how this

32:19

cult managed to run their con. Like it's a

32:22

very important distinction between the two of them that we're

32:24

going to come back to. And

32:26

the cult we're talking about today is

32:28

called the twin flames universe. People

32:33

as human beings were fascinated by

32:35

sex, were fascinated by relationships, all

32:37

of that good stuff. But I

32:40

also think it's probably not a reach to

32:42

say that maybe a lot of people have

32:44

never been lonelier than they've ever been today.

32:46

So that idea that a perfect person

32:48

exists for you somewhere out there and

32:51

you just need to find them and

32:53

then everything will be great makes

32:55

sense as to why there is

32:57

this huge spike in

32:59

interest. And that's exactly what

33:02

the two main characters at the heart of our story

33:04

today knew. And they are

33:06

called Jeff and Shalia

33:08

divine. Except they're not. They're

33:10

not really. Their real names

33:12

are Jeff, I. Anne and Megan

33:14

plant. But for the purposes of

33:17

this story, we shall be

33:19

calling them Jeff and Shalia divine and they

33:21

got together in 2013. So Megan, I don't

33:23

like calling them by their chosen name. So

33:25

are we going to stick with Megan and

33:27

Jeff? No, no, it's going to be confusing.

33:29

Shalia divine. So she was

33:32

a spiritual freewheeler doing readings and

33:34

healings for people online, always a

33:36

red flag. Yep. And

33:38

Jeff was even worse because he was a business school graduate,

33:40

which is even more boring than being a spiritual

33:42

healer online. And he just

33:45

wanted to be really, really rich. And they

33:47

quickly realized that promising to cure people's cancer

33:49

with their spiritual number, Jobo was not going

33:51

to pan out. If people didn't get better,

33:53

then nobody was going to keep paying them.

33:57

So instead, they moved on to what we all want. is

34:00

love. And they started what they

34:02

called the TFU, which is the Twin Flames

34:04

universe. Yeah, so this is where we're getting

34:06

into that cultish behavior.

34:08

So basically, they start making YouTube

34:11

videos telling everybody

34:13

about Twin Flames, so educating the wider

34:15

public about what Twin Flames are and

34:17

also telling everybody that they are each

34:20

other's Twin Flames. And

34:22

they also say in a lot of

34:24

their videos that they have been in

34:26

harmonious union for years. Now, in

34:28

case you're wondering what that is, it's basically

34:30

the equivalent of like having reached enlightenment in

34:33

this particular area, you having met

34:35

your twin flame, and coexisting

34:37

with them in harmos harmonious

34:39

union is the equivalent of

34:41

having reached enlightenment is the highest form

34:43

of like being that you can exist

34:45

in and they're like, we've done it. And

34:48

because they've ascended to this level,

34:51

they say that they are now

34:53

blessed with the gift of recognizing

34:55

your twin flames and

34:58

also being able to confirm it. Hey,

35:02

I'm Jamie and I'm justina and we're the

35:04

hosts of just so you know, a podcast

35:06

where we get to the bottom of suspicious

35:08

stories and outright lies were being told by

35:10

companies that profit off of animals. You think

35:12

he'll unmask a shady way to hear our

35:14

episode about his sinister brain experiments. First he

35:16

ruined Twitter. Now we've come in for your

35:18

actual brain. We've also got one about that

35:20

time I stormed the runway at New York

35:22

Fashion Week to protest coach his leather handbag.

35:24

Yeah, I heard they were happy about that.

35:26

I couldn't tell you they're not talking to

35:28

me at the moment. And we're just getting

35:30

started. In the coming weeks, we're going to

35:32

blow the lid off of everything from shady

35:34

pet dealers to monkey's health hostage by coconut

35:36

milk companies to the astonishing secret behind the

35:39

no animals were harmed message you see at

35:41

the end of movies and so much more.

35:43

We'll hope you join us for the surprisingly

35:45

fun journey full of strange characters, secretive companies

35:48

and a whole world of stuff they really

35:50

don't want you to know. Subscribe to just

35:52

so you know wherever you get your podcasts

35:54

and look for a new episode every Thursday.

35:57

Just so you know, it's a PETA production.

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our best policy. So

36:32

the key thing is that they make it

36:34

very clear that you cannot find your

36:36

twin flame without their help.

36:38

Oh, it's quite clever isn't it? And it's really

36:40

whoever you turn up with going, I think Jordan

36:43

is my twin flame, they're just going to go,

36:45

we'll take your money. Yes. Or

36:48

they're going to go, we found one for

36:50

you. Here's one I prepared earlier. Or would

36:52

they say, this isn't what stick with us

36:54

and we'll find them. Yes, because typically people

36:56

didn't come with somebody that they thought was their

36:58

twin flame. The people who were drawn

37:00

to this were people who were lonely, who hadn't met

37:02

somebody yet. And they were

37:04

like, Jeffers Schlierer, they're saying, we'll help you

37:07

identify and find your twin flame. So people

37:09

come there solo, hoping

37:11

that they will help them match make.

37:15

And this is where that key difference Jordan that

37:17

you were interested in comes in that difference between

37:19

a twin flame connection and

37:21

a soulmate connection. And this is very important

37:23

because it comes in very handy for the

37:26

divine. Okay, so soulmate is someone who's you're

37:28

naturally compatible with that you get on well

37:30

as chemistry, you're happy, you're fulfilled, definitely fucking

37:33

each other. Okay, it's

37:35

easy. But a twin

37:37

flame, you don't necessarily

37:39

have a guaranteed smooth connection, they call

37:41

them blocks. So just because you're in

37:43

a harmonious union doesn't mean you never

37:45

fight or like get a restraining order,

37:47

which is a key plot point. Oh,

37:50

my God. Yeah,

37:53

because the the connection is

37:55

so intense, your twin flame

37:57

will bring up all of the issues that you need to deal

37:59

with. And they do to thing

38:01

called mirror work right? So if you're

38:03

like oh I'm I'm upset because this

38:06

person has rejected me. What you would

38:08

do in the Twin Flames universe is

38:10

say I'm upset because I project and

38:12

then we look inward and then. Clean

38:15

out your soul that way, which is not a

38:17

million miles away from suspect. A

38:19

therapist we live, we're gonna make you guys did

38:21

American Isolated. Don't worry about endlessly. Smoke

38:24

at the new. Said

38:29

it is no Matt. Smith

38:32

Smith. Nicholas to sit out Say

38:34

the key thing is that the connection

38:36

with your twins and is going to

38:38

be difficult as part of the homes

38:40

problem and to make it work yesterday.

38:42

Major personal healing. But. You

38:45

have to make it work because once you've done

38:47

that and reached harmonious Union is the very best.

38:49

Love out that in the universe and these two

38:51

people are going to be able to give it

38:53

to you and you will never ever find anyone

38:55

better because it just doesn't exist. Yeah.

38:58

How. Harmonious Your unions currently. We're.

39:00

Just friends ah my own. I

39:03

have a husband that say I'm

39:05

fairly common harmonious. From time to

39:07

time we have a flare ups

39:09

but which which couple dozen smith

39:11

so night so it's a. It's

39:14

not a soul mate. It's deeper than

39:16

a soulmate. Yeah, Theres a saying it's

39:19

it's better than assault my spicy salmon.

39:21

Yes and it's core of when you

39:24

meet this person it's site said nominally.

39:26

By. Zola Word know it's just

39:29

Next Level's Love. But. Not necessarily

39:31

easy. So what they're saying is if you

39:33

meet your soul mates it will be easy.

39:35

It'll be like, can feel be compatible. You'll

39:37

get on. Great. You'll have in a minimal

39:39

problems no more than an ordinary toppled that's

39:42

But you're settling Seles if you settle for

39:44

your soul mate because you're taking the easy.

39:46

Road what you want. To do

39:48

is meet your twin slain who is

39:50

essentially your other half of your soul

39:52

says but with that person, be warned.

39:54

It's gonna be a much. Rougher right

39:57

see blocks. It's gonna be really

39:59

challenging bag. Bring up all this stuff in

40:01

you that you have to deal with, but if

40:03

you deal with it then you will reach a

40:05

higher level of being which is this harmonious. Nutrients.

40:08

And as you can see already

40:10

that becoming very convenient for them

40:12

because crucially with the twin flames

40:14

am. Sometimes. You can

40:16

seem like a really unlikely pass, so

40:18

there might be, for example, a large

40:21

age gap between these twin flames. There

40:23

might be big differences and background, or

40:25

a total lack of any sort of

40:27

physical attraction. A

40:29

but they all your person.

40:32

According to Jeff and Shelia now Jeff and Julia

40:35

if you watch any of the you tube. Videos

40:38

They preach these points non stop and

40:40

they tell their followers. If. You

40:42

don't like the person that we say is your twin

40:45

flame. So. What? They

40:47

are your twin flame. They aren't your

40:49

soul mate. Twin flame relationships will be

40:51

hard and you might not even like

40:53

them, let alone loves them. You might

40:55

not even want to be anywhere near

40:57

them, learn have sex with them, but

41:00

you have to find the inner strength,

41:02

resilience and gratitude and nice a close

41:04

second from them to make. It

41:06

work. How very convenient

41:08

seal it sounds of touch. Sort.

41:11

Of. Can I say this.

41:13

Rapier Jace? Yes, Yes, Yes. And

41:16

it's Very. it's. Very, It's like

41:18

just being like you William don't care

41:20

about any of your preferences, any of

41:22

your attractions, anything that you wanted a

41:24

person. It's this person and if you

41:26

can't make it work with that person,

41:28

it's your fault. Not because we've. I.

41:31

Mean we're done on I thought

41:33

was there they're like hello this

41:35

is a separate sections your twin

41:37

flame be regardless of whatever.be one

41:39

of two things. Unless

41:43

a lot of laugh. And as this just

41:45

basically mumbo jumbos made. Oh yes,

41:47

yeah, if. We tell you children

41:50

that your. Twin Flame is your

41:52

colleague. Nothing's going, Him, a colleague and

41:54

that person and like I don't like

41:56

you, Please stop telling me the annual

41:58

Twin Same I don't know. talking about

42:00

because the person they point you to may not

42:02

be in the cult. They could just be a

42:04

random person they say is your twin flame and

42:07

you keep going up to that person and say no

42:09

I really think we should be together and that person

42:11

like please leave me alone. Jeff and

42:13

Shalea are basically telling them do not take no for

42:15

an answer. So this is where we become

42:18

ever more rapey. Yeah that's

42:20

so bad. So essentially

42:22

they're teaching TFU students a

42:25

lot about how to manipulate people, how

42:27

to stalk people and also just boundary

42:30

crossing. Just never ever ever stopping. And

42:33

all of those actions were very de-celebrated by

42:35

the cult because it showed a dedicated student

42:37

of TFU trying hard to make their love

42:40

work. So showing up at someone's house

42:42

in the middle of the night, leaving a

42:44

photo album under their car. Fantastic. Yeah.

42:46

That's just been a stalker. It is. But in the

42:49

cult it is it being

42:51

someone who's really committed, someone who's really committed

42:53

to the cult. So they'll be heralded amongst

42:55

the rest of the students as being someone

42:57

who's really, look how dedicated this person is.

42:59

You should all aspire to be as committed

43:02

to making it work with your twin flame as Jordan

43:05

is. And so you're kind

43:08

of getting positive reinforcement for doing something

43:10

that is so terrible. So it gets

43:12

very messed up in people's heads. So

43:14

while their students' lives are very much

43:17

falling apart because they're getting arrested, they're

43:19

getting restraining orders set against them, all

43:21

this kind of stuff. And

43:23

in some cases, even moving across the

43:25

country to move in and live with

43:28

somebody that they do not know. And

43:30

doing this based on nothing more than the word

43:32

of their leaders, on nothing more than the word

43:34

of their leaders. Now, Jeff

43:36

and Shalea, while all this is going on, are

43:39

enjoying their millions and millions and millions

43:42

of dollars because by this point, they

43:44

are absolutely raking it

43:46

in. But how are

43:48

they profiting off this scam? I hear you scream.

43:50

Yes. Yes, please.

43:54

And they don't hide it either. Like one of the first YouTube

43:57

videos that if you search them, which comes up is them. That

44:00

hundred. Thousand. Dollar car around and

44:02

would you say Porsche? Porsche

44:04

William am well the best

44:06

vulgar I. Have

44:09

a place. You would say I would say pushes.

44:12

What I believe it is Porsche. And

44:14

us a how they make money with the question

44:16

and the answer is the Twin flames, Ascension Schools

44:18

and our gonna tell you how much money they

44:20

will make of each person says and said the

44:22

past start to sell online classes. On

44:25

how people could find that when claim a

44:27

nice classes cost two hundred and twenty two

44:30

dollar angel numbers a months. And

44:32

then people were forced into signing up for a year at

44:34

a time. Jeff in Chile at

44:36

the running these classes. the charging will

44:39

this money and you might be wondering

44:41

like what are they actually teaching things

44:43

that seems to be repeatedly solved down

44:45

everybody's thrive and seems to be pretty

44:47

much the only thing that they talk

44:49

about that. love the time is this

44:51

mirror exercise. Civil all of your problems

44:53

of ever having an issue with your

44:55

twin flames. It'll ever having a problem

44:57

that you get arrested him for imprison

45:00

because you've been stalking. Know Twin Flames.

45:02

Do the mirror exercise and it goes

45:04

like this basically. They. Tell you

45:06

to say a sentence thought a

45:08

time that another person made you

45:10

feel negatively. For example, I am

45:13

blank blank for blanking mates. So

45:15

willing do you want to give

45:17

us an example. Of this I will

45:19

have you go. Know

45:22

I did. And does that have to be

45:24

a negative? Yes, it does have to. Negative.

45:26

Yes, So. It's the negative actions,

45:28

how it made you feel on the person.

45:31

Oh I am. In sense

45:33

of such, Autumn didn't read

45:36

my message of what's up.

45:40

Or is it doesn't fully but concepts

45:43

of oh. I'm

45:46

gonna do I simply pets, you know,

45:48

notice of businesses I am in sense

45:50

that Jordan didn't fall back on tic

45:53

toc. Okay, good now we have

45:55

to do the mirror exercise the william

45:57

you need to say the sentence again

45:59

but Reversing it and aiming it

46:01

at yourself. Okay. I

46:04

am cross that I did not follow myself

46:06

back from TikTok. Even though I

46:08

don't think that's technically possible. Feel

46:10

anything? Feel better? Oh, so

46:13

much better. Unburdened. Unburdened?

46:15

Good. Good. Closer to

46:18

your not-twin flame? So much closer. I

46:20

mean, I can't message him on TikTok, but

46:22

I'm closer than this. And

46:25

apparently, that exercise is

46:27

all hundreds of people all over the world needed. Yes.

46:30

That is $220 a month, please. Well,

46:32

that's ridiculous. It's a big part of it. Is

46:34

it like a form of gaslighting? No. No. I

46:38

don't know what it is. I

46:40

feel like they're borrowing from like

46:42

maybe some reframing ideas. So yeah,

46:44

but it's like you're only going to

46:46

be upset if someone calls you fat on Instagram if you already

46:48

think you're fat. Like, you know what I mean?

46:50

Ah, okay. So it's like,

46:52

it's, I guess in some ways, like it's

46:54

not that somebody else is making you feel

46:56

that way. It's because you're making yourself feel

46:58

that way. But that's all they have. That's

47:00

all they have. This is what every single

47:02

one of their followers just repeats endlessly. It

47:05

seems to be the only thing they've learned

47:07

from the entire TFU student

47:10

environment. And then

47:13

so if you find your twin flame within the

47:15

program, you're encouraged to post as many pictures as

47:17

humanly possible on every form of social media

47:19

in these Facebook groups that hundreds

47:21

of thousands of people, big. And

47:24

then Jeff and Shalea can use that, be

47:26

like, don't you want it all? Yeah. And

47:29

then those people who are posting,

47:31

they start getting classes for free. And

47:34

then it started to grow because people do want to be happy and

47:36

people do want to be in love. So

47:38

Jeff and Shalea started hosting regular online

47:40

group sessions with hundreds of people joining

47:42

over Zoom and doing regular

47:44

meetups as well. And slowly they took

47:47

over their students' lives. Do

47:49

you think a lot of cults thrived during lockdown? I

47:52

was thinking about this this morning because

47:55

it is very, because it's a lot of their

47:57

classes happen on Zoom and it's all YouTube videos

47:59

and stuff. feel very lockdown-y and

48:01

I think that that is when we

48:03

saw loneliness become the epidemic

48:05

that it is now. Because

48:07

I think everyone's mental health was under a microscope for

48:09

two years and we haven't really

48:12

done anything about it. So

48:14

I wonder, yeah, because

48:16

maybe instead of making banana bread

48:19

you're like, I actually want to ascend and

48:21

then you end up in some tricky situation.

48:23

And you had a lot of time to think and do nothing.

48:25

Well and that's, for me personally, the worst

48:27

possible scenario. Exactly. It's always dangerous.

48:31

And yeah, there's also that kind of

48:33

underlying thing of like, well, what are

48:35

you doing with this time to make

48:37

yourself better? Like that self-help, self-improvement, which

48:39

again, they're really tapping into that wellbeing,

48:41

self-help, make yourself a better person, heal,

48:44

like pseudo therapy stuff, like all of,

48:46

even this mirror exercise, it

48:48

feels very like they've hijacked it from

48:50

somewhere else and they're co-opting it for

48:53

their own purposes. So

48:55

yeah, another very cultish thing that they start to

48:57

do at this point is they start to tell

48:59

all of their students and followers that they

49:01

have to cut off any family and

49:03

friends who might challenge the teachings of

49:06

the cult. Now this

49:08

kind of isolation is really, really important if you're

49:10

going to have a cult. If you're going to

49:12

have a cult, you can't allow your cult members

49:14

to be getting advice, influence,

49:17

information, or allowing other

49:20

people outside externally to the cult to challenge what

49:22

you're telling these people. It has to be like

49:24

a funnel of information that you're just feeding these

49:26

people and no one else is allowed to come

49:29

near it. So they start telling

49:31

everybody, you know, if family members or

49:33

friends or loved ones in your life

49:35

start to say, Oh, this

49:37

sounds a bit weird. I really don't think that

49:39

person is a good match for you. This sounds

49:41

like a cult. Put them off because

49:43

they're not your real family. They're not really

49:46

people who love you. We are

49:48

that. And they start talking about things like

49:50

a whole family. And so it's

49:52

expanding beyond just that romantic partner. It's the

49:54

cult wanting to take over in every

49:57

possible way for their people's lives. It's

50:00

also what Scientology do if anyone is

50:03

challenging your psychological beliefs there. You're an SP.

50:05

They're a suppressive person Mm-hmm

50:07

and here the phrase they use is

50:10

anyone who challenges what the group is

50:12

telling you is just trying to dull

50:14

your vibration So they're holding

50:16

you back. You don't want to have those people

50:18

in your life They're also not keeping a secret

50:20

that they're making all of this money I said

50:22

they've got their Porsche Porsche or whatever and and

50:24

they're enormous house with a water slide and they're

50:26

filming all of this They're real like camcorder cult

50:28

situation showing it to all of their followers saying

50:30

you could have this and

50:34

The way you have more stuff and money

50:36

is by not paying taxes and who doesn't pay taxes

50:38

Religions exactly bingo So

50:41

Jeff had the bright idea to register

50:43

an arm of his MLM as a

50:45

religion So he has a tax dodge and

50:48

he called it the Church of the Union

50:50

which means basically nothing Like

50:52

Scientology doesn't really mean anything. No bit

50:54

of nothing. It's the study of studying But

50:58

Jeff does what we were talking about at

51:00

the start he he starts it as a

51:02

church He starts to affiliate himself very strongly

51:04

with a Christian

51:07

aesthetic Let's say and

51:09

then he starts to outright call himself

51:12

Jesus Christ, so he's like a European looking

51:14

guy with long brown hair and blue eyes

51:16

so he's saying that like and he says

51:18

this that Jesus

51:21

the first Jesus obviously Middle-eastern

51:23

Jewish guy he didn't actually look like

51:25

this, but I do I'm the second round

51:27

so they're predicting me. Yeah, and it's it's a big

51:29

thing he has and it shows his sort of level

51:32

of narcissism He's not just saying that he's somebody

51:34

who has all the up. He's literally saying I

51:37

am Jesus Christ And

51:39

Shalia, she likes to say I'm banging

51:41

the Christ. That's one of her favorite

51:43

things to say You

51:49

would is if you really believed it

51:51

it is quite a quite a brag

51:53

Isn't it if you really want yeah that

51:56

that was true how much she really

51:58

thinks it's true and how much Jeff really? thinks

52:00

he's Jesus, I don't know.

52:02

They don't come across to me as delusional because

52:04

I don't think you could successfully run the scam

52:06

that they do if you were genuinely like completely

52:08

delusional and out of your tree. I think it's

52:11

just part of the thing because he's like, I

52:13

can get away with it. I can say I'm

52:15

Jesus and these people are believing it because one

52:17

of the things in this is that anyone who

52:19

rejects it, because a few people in the cult,

52:21

like maybe he's going a bit far now, maybe

52:24

him saying he's literally Jesus Christ is a bit

52:26

too big of a step for me. Jeff

52:29

and Shelly were just like, oh, you've got a block. You've

52:31

got a block and you need to buy more classes

52:33

to get rid of your block because if you don't

52:35

believe I'm Jesus, then what are you

52:37

even doing here? So it kind of just

52:39

whatever they say, you can't argue with it. There's

52:42

always a dead end. Then

52:44

in 2020, a vice article

52:46

was released about TFU and some of

52:48

the members who had woken up to

52:50

what was going on after the whole

52:52

Jesus Christ revelation had gone

52:54

to vice and given interviews about what was

52:56

really going on. And obviously,

52:59

Jeff wasn't going to go down with a

53:01

fight. He just turns around, sues vice and

53:03

calls everybody who left haters. That's his favorite

53:05

thing to say. And honestly,

53:08

after this, it just kind of gets

53:10

weirder and weirder. And you see this

53:12

with cults, they sort of start to

53:14

devolve the more power

53:16

crazy the cult leader becomes. They'll start

53:18

to devolve. Very depressing. The

53:20

power of love. Welcome

53:23

to everything we discuss.

53:25

Thank you for educating us on cults.

53:28

You're very welcome. Thank you for being

53:30

such wonderful listeners. Well, I think it may

53:32

be we'll have some some listener lessons about cults

53:34

in this in the second part after

53:37

these messages. Do I do a joke the week?

53:39

No, you don't do jokes. Welcome

53:50

back now it's time for Red Handed to

53:53

go sexted with questions and dilemmas from our

53:55

GMD as our listeners. We have no idea

53:57

what is coming up like you have no

53:59

idea. idea what I'm about to read out,

54:02

so we will start with this letter from

54:04

Joao. Dear William

54:06

Jordan and the Red Handed Crew, I'm friends

54:09

with a lovely group of very classy middle

54:11

class people in their late sixties. I'm in

54:13

my early thirties for your reference. Their

54:16

manners are impeccable. Also, I thought, we

54:18

were all at a party together when

54:20

my friends decided to leave. I followed

54:22

suit not wanting to stay alone. However,

54:24

to my surprise, they did not look

54:26

for the host to say goodbye. When

54:28

I asked if we should do so, they said it

54:31

was terrible manners to disrupt a host to

54:33

bid farewell. The correct attitude would be just

54:35

to exit the party and send a thank

54:37

you note or text the day after. This

54:40

was completely new to me. I've always

54:42

been taught that it's impolite to leave

54:44

a party without thanking the host in

54:46

person. What is the correct etiquette in

54:48

this case? Should I adopt this advice

54:50

and start doing Irish Exy? Many thanks,

54:52

Joao. I thought it was called a

54:54

French Exy. It's called both. Or a

54:56

backdoor boogie. Or a what? I call

54:58

it a trapdoor. A

55:01

trapdoor? Do you do it? Oh yeah.

55:03

I love it. A backdoor

55:05

boogie is you just go out the

55:07

back, you dance. I read something the

55:09

other day that if you do the Irish Exy

55:12

pretty consistently, you save like two years of your life. Right.

55:15

Because of all the friends that you lose along the

55:17

way. I think at a dinner party it's different if

55:19

you're already on the table. I'm not going to get

55:22

up on the table. Yeah. But at a party I

55:24

think it's perfectly fine. I wouldn't mind if someone did

55:26

it to me. I didn't even send thank

55:28

you notes. Oh

55:30

dear. Thank you for

55:32

listening to this episode. I'm

55:35

the first time I do. I left

55:37

a molt to it most nights. I was like, I'm

55:39

done now. You

55:41

did it when we went to bed I don't. Yes.

55:44

Try to do it at the airport

55:46

for the last... What would you do?

55:49

I probably wouldn't feel offended if somebody

55:51

left my party without saying goodbye to me. But

55:54

I would feel compelled to say goodbye

55:57

to them if I left their party. But

55:59

it depends on how drunk. I am yeah, I'll be perfectly

56:01

honest, but they do take ages

56:03

to say goodbye now don't I I

56:05

think as a wedding you can't set

56:07

Where there's obviously comparatively more you just

56:09

need to take advice of the couple

56:11

getting married and maybe the immediate parents

56:13

of the couple getting married Presuming they

56:15

are there and present other than

56:18

that That's fine. You don't need to

56:20

go around saying goodbye Yeah, but I would say from an etiquette

56:22

point of view you should say goodbye to the host and

56:24

the co-host as a party Okay. All

56:26

right, and I'm surprised that Joelle's friends

56:28

who are older didn't know that Shocking

56:32

it's not just the younger generation. This

56:34

is from John. Hello everyone I was

56:36

in a work WhatsApp group chat full

56:38

of filth and jokes sounds so

56:40

cringy They might even make members of the North

56:43

clan blush But recently

56:45

I've noticed the chats have been very quiet.

56:47

Nobody has been replying to my messages So

56:49

last week I decided to investigate it was

56:51

only after looking at the group I realized

56:53

what has happened Everyone by myself and another

56:56

had left en masse on the same day

56:58

a month before and hadn't said

57:00

nothing I was still messaging

57:02

throughout that month and under wiser as no messages

57:04

or alerts had come up saying everyone had left

57:07

I was a bit hurt and embarrassed when I

57:09

finally noticed and now have no idea how to

57:12

approach the situation and it's been over A month.

57:14

So what's the etiquette for leaving a group chat?

57:16

Should you give a reason before you leave so

57:18

people know or is it acceptable to ditch the

57:20

big group without warning? Love you guys

57:22

from John. Oh That's

57:25

a very modern problem. I think

57:27

it depends on the group is

57:29

what I'm gonna say It was like for a stag stag

57:32

done now all the jokes post-stag have been

57:34

made When's the time to

57:37

retire the group? Yeah, when can you leave the group?

57:39

But if it's like a friend group,

57:41

that's just an ongoing one Leaving's

57:44

a bit. Yeah, it's off. There's

57:46

always look read when it says so-and-so's left

57:48

the group I think you don't leave the

57:50

group you make another group excluding the people

57:53

you don't want in the new one I

57:55

think that's polite. So we I I'm part.

57:57

Well, I was part of one called called mates like

57:59

M S and now it's

58:01

M12 because everyone's broken up with everyone else. So

58:03

we've had several operations

58:06

of the same group and the first the

58:08

first one to get excluded was called Jack.

58:11

So we do call it getting Jacked. But

58:14

yeah, you archive the group and start

58:17

a new one. See, I don't

58:19

like archiving because I are am

58:21

I gonna get I archive my mum so I can

58:23

shoot when I can read what she said.

58:26

Oh, wow. And so if I see the

58:28

little one, yeah, I'm like, Oh my god,

58:30

it's so I don't tend to archive, I'll

58:32

just delete the chat. Oh, I've got like 12 archive.

58:35

That's very stressful. What is archive?

58:37

You're just like, you're

58:39

on. You put it

58:41

into a you put it into a separate bit where

58:44

you don't get the notifications anymore. Oh, okay.

58:46

You do get a little what tells you

58:49

one, two, three messages. I mean, I

58:53

would say to john here that it

58:56

sounds like it's so cringy, they might even

58:58

make members of the North clan blush. Are

59:01

you missing anything john? Does it really matter?

59:03

I say to a lot of

59:05

people, I don't do WhatsApp groups. No, you should always

59:07

do that if you can offer because it's too many

59:09

and they're very stressful. They are a lot of them

59:11

could get you cancelled. Yeah. Yeah,

59:13

that's maybe that's where everybody left. Yeah, was everyone

59:15

he was in a group with a public figure.

59:18

We need to know more. We need to know it does

59:20

sound a bit personal. It

59:22

does. So maybe the problem is you john.

59:25

Yeah, yeah, I think the fact that they all left

59:27

on the same day. Does sound

59:29

calculated. Yeah, it's possibly something

59:31

you said. Yeah. Kind

59:34

of learn from that. Maybe it's an opportunity

59:36

for growth for him. He can

59:38

look back at the last comment he made.

59:40

Yeah. And wonder why everybody

59:42

left. And do

59:44

the mirror exercise. Exactly. Yes, maybe they've

59:46

all gone to join a cult. This

59:49

final one is from Alfie de William and Jordan

59:52

and team it was my birthday recently and to

59:54

celebrate my mum took me out for a wimpy

59:56

lunch. Would you like to explain what that is?

1:00:00

Wimpie is a burger restaurant

1:00:02

that was very big in the 80s and 90s. But

1:00:04

my mum and dad's first date. Lovely. Aww. They

1:00:07

look so wimpy. Nice. Yeah. She asked if I

1:00:10

did anything nice. I can't believe there's still a

1:00:12

few around. There was one in my hometown

1:00:14

until, I want to say, 2013. Yeah,

1:00:18

right. Boom. That was a goal when I was

1:00:20

a kid. Lovely. She asked if I did anything

1:00:22

nice, and I decided it was the right time

1:00:24

to tell her about my boyfriend. We

1:00:26

got to the wimpy, and my mum asked

1:00:28

me, while in the restaurant, Have you had

1:00:30

sex with him yet? Okay.

1:00:34

That's a bit large. Obviously, I said yes,

1:00:36

as you never like your mother. I then

1:00:38

went into detail about our escapades, and

1:00:40

that he lasted three hours the last time we

1:00:43

did the deed. That sounds horrible. That sounds absolutely

1:00:45

awful. She then said to me, Me and your

1:00:47

dad don't even last 45 minutes,

1:00:49

yet alone three hours. 45 minutes? This

1:00:52

was followed by an in-depth

1:00:54

discussion. Is it wrong

1:00:56

that I tell my mum about my sex life?

1:00:59

Yes. And what would you do if your mum

1:01:01

told you about theirs? Yours faithfully, wrong use of

1:01:03

yours faithfully. Alfie. But, I mean, let's not worry

1:01:05

about that too much. Oh my God. Wow. I

1:01:08

mean, yeah, I mean, it

1:01:11

sounds like you and your mum are pretty comfortable

1:01:13

with it, Alfie, but I reckon the majority of

1:01:16

people would not enjoy discussing their sex life with...

1:01:18

No. I don't think it's any of your parents'

1:01:20

business. No. No. What is possible? They just

1:01:22

want to know you're happy. What is there to be

1:01:24

gained by talking to your parents about sex? Look, it

1:01:26

sounds like a same-sex relationship, so it's not like,

1:01:29

you know, your mum's probably going to have a

1:01:31

bit of advice. Yeah, exactly. You're right.

1:01:33

Yeah. You're right. I don't... But

1:01:36

she's doing something. If at whatever age she is that

1:01:38

she's got her son that's old enough to be talking

1:01:40

to her about sex, her and her partner still last

1:01:42

45 minutes. Quite a

1:01:44

long time. That's a long time. Yeah. I mean,

1:01:47

my advice there is probably try to avoid talking

1:01:49

about your sex life with parents and being weird.

1:01:51

I don't think your new partner would enjoy it.

1:01:53

No. No. Because at

1:01:55

some point, he might meet them. And does he need to

1:01:57

go in with the knowledge that you have? your

1:02:00

mum knows about your sex life I think it's

1:02:02

not really setting him up for success I think

1:02:04

some things are best left kept private I

1:02:06

would agree so stop it Alfie yeah

1:02:09

there we go you've been told really

1:02:11

good advice there so there we go

1:02:14

that was sexted and red-handed yin

1:02:16

and yang thanks so much for coming on guys

1:02:22

thank you so much for having us thank you for having

1:02:25

all you thank you for having a little bit of had

1:02:27

each other there you go and it lasted

1:02:29

almost three hours thank you

1:02:31

so much now we never we don't get

1:02:33

to do many collabs especially with British shows

1:02:35

actually we don't have that many British pod

1:02:37

connections so it's been really nice to meet

1:02:39

you both and thank you for having us

1:02:42

to meet you and we'll see you on

1:02:44

that island with Jarrah Besson sexed

1:02:48

and red-handed everyone prime

1:02:56

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