In this podcast, we meet two key members of our CEN work stream - Mina, one of our Lived Experience Practitioners and Neil Springham, Consultant art therapist, Director of Therapies, Executive Lead for Patient Experience at Oxleas NHS Foundation Trust.Together they think about what it means to have a label of personality disorder/CEN, the importance of language, the role of co-production, the value of cultural competence and the enduring power of stigma. They focus their discussion on what might make a difference, be that art therapy, mentalisation therapy or trauma informed care which places the emphasis on “what happened to you” rather than “what’s wrong with you”. As informal as it is informative, this podcast addresses a lot of questions which service users want to know, and brings to life so much of the work we’ve been doing together.