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This week's life note, we share the chair with our first yoga therapist.

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Welcome to Life Notes from Chair 17,

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a podcast dedicated to sharing life stories,

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wisdoms and inspirations as we navigate life's journey,

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post chas to share thoughtful perspectives and insights from her own life journey,

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as well as those of special guests and contributors tune in for thoughtful conversations about lessons learned wisdoms,

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gained experiences, had and inspirations shared.

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Find us where you get your podcasts and be sure to hit follow or subscribe.

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So you never miss an now enjoy this week's episode.

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All righty. Welcome back in friends to another episode of Life Notes from Jerry 17.

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I'm your host ch Thank you once again for finding me in this little corner of the podcast universe.

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As always like to start the episode by thanking our returning C 17.

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I continue to appreciate your support each week for checking us out.

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And if you are new to the podcast,

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a warm welcome to you,

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you likely found us via a major podcast platform or maybe via our website out on Life Notes from Church 17 podcast.com or I'm now determining it could be more rare but you might have actually found us on Instagram uh or via linkedin.

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So either way, glad you were here.

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Welcome. Hope you enjoy what you hear and we want to stick around.

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This episode is a little bit of a milestone as it is our 20th episode.

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And I decided to do a share of the chair episode for this one with someone who I actually met for the very first time in March of 2020.

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So the 20 theme is carrying on quite,

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quite well. Uh He is a good friend,

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he's a former colleague and he actually hired me in March of 2020 right at the time when the world was about to fall off the cliff or was in the process of falling off the cliff for the COVID-19 pandemic.

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And that is Nathan Wald Vogel.

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And he and I first came to know each other as a,

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as my manager, as a boss and then that obviously grew into a friendship.

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And he has been on a very interesting life journey to become what is called a yoga therapist after having been a yoga instructor for a number of years.

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Now, some of you might be wondering what the difference is and we will talk about that in the episode.

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It was actually a real honor for me to have him come on and share his vision and belief in not only what he's trying to build as a practitioner,

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but also as part of how that has been building within himself as part of this life journey.

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And it actually was the first time he told me he's actually really had to articulate this vision out loud to someone else as opposed to just himself.

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So it felt uh I did feel very honored that that sort of came out of this conversation.

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There are also, I feel some really thoughtful themes in this conversation about the importance of mind,

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body connection as we heal either from something physically or something mentally or something emotionally or all of the above.

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Uh When we have gone through something difficult or challenging in our life,

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I do want to share up front that we do make a small mention of recovering from abuse.

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So folks who might be sensitive to hearing that in a conversation,

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I just wanna be transparent upfront.

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We don't spend a lot of time on it and we certainly don't uh go into much depth,

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but it does essentially get mentioned.

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So I just wanted to share that upfront.

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So as not to be triggering for anyone uh When we get to that part of the episode,

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as always, I'd like to say that our standard disclaimer applies.

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We are not promoting medical advice with this episode.

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Should you want to look into yoga or yoga therapy?

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That is a decision you can make and you can make with your medical practitioners.

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We have obviously made Nathan's information available for anyone who might be interested in learning a bit more or reaching out to him directly.

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But we are not uh offering any formal medical advice that is between you and your doctors.

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This is for us as always and as part of our share of the chair series,

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uh an inspiring life story uh to share with our audience.

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And it is with someone who I am personally very grateful to call a friend and to see his vision for himself and a passion that he has come to life.

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So it does run a bit longer than our usual episodes.

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I think it's actually with this intro,

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it'll probably be about an hour, but it is worth it.

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So I'm hoping that you will tune in for the full episode.

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As always, I tell you to be kind to yourself to take it one hour at a time,

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one day at a time and enjoy this share the chair episode.

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Ok. Hi, Nathan, how are you?

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I'm doing great. Thanks for having me. Well, thank you very much for wanting to be a guest.

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Share. The chair is what we are calling our uh our series when we have a guest.

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You and I happen to know each other though because you were kind enough to hire me way back in the time Vortex.

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That was March of 2020 nobody knew what the hell was going to happen.

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And so I will always be grateful to you for that.

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Um But we don't work together currently. Um And you are in a different world uh for your day job as um I,

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but one of the reasons I wanted to have you on is because I,

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we like to tell life stories on this podcast and we like to tell them from the perspective of either or all inspirations,

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experiences, lessons and wisdoms.

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And I know from our personal conversation you have embarked on a journey to become a yoga therapist.

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And so that's kind of gonna be what we talked about here.

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And so I thought I'd start off by asking you've been a yoga instructor for many years and how did yoga come into your life?

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What made you want to go down the path of being an instructor or,

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and, or bring yoga in as part of what makes you,

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you since it was not your day job,

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it was not the thing that you made money from to keep the lights on and pay the bills.

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It was something that you pursued. Tell folks a little bit about that journey or how it can do.

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Yeah. So I cut my teeth in advertising and I was in an advertising agency and being a project manager,

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you take on a lot, you take on a lot from other people.

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You take on a lot of work from other people.

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And I just found myself in this incredible amount of stress and anxiety that was bleeding into my personal life and we had an opportunity over the lunch hour to do yoga in,

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at the agency I was at and it was like,

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what is this yoga stuff like?

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I didn't know anything really about it and I was like,

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cool, like maybe this can help me calm down.

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And so what is this yoga thing going on at lunch time?

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I'm gonna go check this out. So,

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uh that's kind of how I started. We had one,

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what was it, 11 class a week that we would do over the lunch hour?

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And it was just really nice to get out of the office,

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get out of the world that I was in and really get into my body and really start to think about my body in a different way than just like I use it to transport myself through this world.

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And like, actually what are these sensations?

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What's coming up for me? How has my morning got like,

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start to ask these kind of really introspective questions of myself that helped me understand where is this coming from?

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And why is this affected me so much?

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And so it became this outlet that,

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you know, I didn't, wasn't in fancy studios or like getting all these poses right?

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Or was I flexible enough or was I not,

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it was just being with my body and my breath and uh outlet to check out for the day out of the kind of grind that is western culture and western society.

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Yes. And we do have cats present for this interview.

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So if you do hear some cat meows,

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they are just, uh, enjoying the chat.

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So, um, and just out of curiosity was,

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so you actually left your office building.

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It was not like brought on site. You actually left on site to go do this and then came back into the office building.

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Yeah, there was like a, I don't know what you'd call it.

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It was um some space in the downtown area that we would then just go and it was just this open space that we were close to the office,

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but not in the actual office. And that really helped kind of getting out of the space I was in,

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even if it was, you know, a five minute walk away,

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we weren't in the same spot. So it was really changing,

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the scenery changing, kind of the perspective of where I was at both physically and mentally that really helped kind of hijack my brain into being like we're somewhere else and it allowed me to go somewhere else during the practice.

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And what would you say if you can remember back?

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What was the first maybe inkling that yoga was helping or change?

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You? Did you feel was it instant like after the first session,

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was it after the first month? Kind of how did you start to really feel the impact of choosing to bring this into your life as a way to kind of create a,

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a balance and some wellness and,

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and stress release. Yeah,

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I think it didn't happen right away.

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I think there was kind of just like figuring it out.

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Like, what do you mean when you say this, what,

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what do I do with my body? And I think when it started to change,

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I don't know the exact like time frame,

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but I want to say it was maybe, I don't know,

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23 months down the line. Um because we did do it every week.

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So it was pretty consistent. And I think for me,

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I noticed when I started to get excited to go to these classes and it became less of this like judging myself or like,

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am I doing it? Right? Am I, you know,

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it just kind of was this more self acceptance and also ability to let myself go even with coworkers,

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it feels weird. I'm like doing downward dog with my coworkers.

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Like it's not always the most,

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it's not the most. Um It's an interesting pose if no one has done yoga,

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so you can look it up what downward dog looks like.

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And if you do it in a room full of people that you work with,

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it could be a little awkward, but you kind of,

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you've embraced it truly just being one in the room with your body and what it was.

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And sort of let go of those inhibitions or those other voices in your head that were being maybe self critical initially as you took it on.

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And it was also this great like,

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avenue into yoga because I didn't really know a lot about it.

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I didn't have anybody influencing me. I didn't have another instructor being like you need to take yoga.

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Like no one was forcing me to go.

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It was of my own volition and my own curiosity of,

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I've heard some things about this. I know very generally what it was.

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So I was just very open to the experience.

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And I think that just like it was literally like a book,

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you open the cover and all of a sudden you're done with the book,

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you know, like that was one of the best books I've ever written or ever uh ever read.

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And is there another one by the same author or another one in the series kind of a thing?

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Yeah. And so how did that interest?

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So obviously, we're, we're gonna get to talking about really taking it to a therapist level.

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But how did it evolve to you wanting to actually instruct yoga?

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So I think it was really there was,

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I remember this one moment when we were at the end of practice corpse pose or Shava and I was kind of the end of pose where you're laying down and just kind of like allowing your body and to melt into the matter,

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the earth. I just, we did this body scan and the instructor I think I give them a lot of credit because they were just so accessible and allowed me to go to places I never thought and we did this body scan starting from our feet all the way up.

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And when you say that not to interrupt you, when you say go to places,

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was that both mentally? Was that physically?

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It was both? Yeah. And this was the great segue because this was a body scan that she would talk through,

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kind of imagining your mind's eye going through your own body.

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So we started with our feet and went all the way up through her head and she would just talk about what do you feel?

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What do you and she just like explained it in a way that I started to feel like tingling and sensations.

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And I'm like, I'm not moving, nothing's really happening besides like me guiding myself through this.

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And it was that first moment where I'm like,

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this feels like this is energy,

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this feels like I'm embodying my own existence.

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And so there was this mind, body connection,

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but also this almost spiritual connection at the same time that I'm on this plane.

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But I feel like I'm on another plane yet,

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I'm still at work and I'm in a,

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on a mat in this random empty space,

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you know, and so it was like a I don't know if it's the right way to put it,

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but it felt like I was almost like astral projecting onto another dimension but still very present but allowing this just um sensation to flow through me.

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And I think that's really what clicked for me where there's more to this than just moving my body.

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And it's more than poses. It's more than,

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you know what a lot of people just think like it's exercise or I need to be flexible to do it.

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It's a whole mind body connection.

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And I really started to lean into that,

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which then led me to, well, I want to know more about this.

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And so I ended up going to a studio while I was still doing the classes at work.

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And that was a little bit more kind of diversity of thought within yoga.

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What do other instructors have to say about this?

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What else do I like about yoga? And so that led me down the path to go into teacher training and then that's where they really go through all the posture breakdowns.

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They go through the philosophy, you dive deeper into anatomy and then you get into more of the philosophy,

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the Eastern, you know, tradition of where yoga originated from,

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what kind of um tenants are guided by it or what sort of um you know,

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uh ancient texts that you can bring in that really help bring that spirituality aspect to yoga.

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And in terms of uh practice.

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So how long did it take you to essentially become an instructor where you first started um doing and teaching within um just in case folks,

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and we'll link in the show notes, um uh any of uh links to your website and things like that,

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that they can learn more about you. But if her folks were interested in thinking about yoga this way,

16:17

becoming an instructor, what is the trajectory of that from?

16:21

Hey, I've decided to attend a class to,

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hey, I want to actually teach. Is it like a year?

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Is it a couple of years? How does one become sort of a certified instructor?

16:32

So, and what was your journey in that? Yeah,

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definitely. So it's really kind of up to the practitioner.

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I don't think there's any, you know, set time frame to be,

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I've done yoga and now I wanna become a,

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an instructor. I think it's a really personal choice.

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However, I think what is really good to note is teacher trainings aren't just for teacher training,

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you can get certified to teach, but it's also a way to learn more in depth of what yoga is as a practitioner.

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You can bring that back to your mat and you can understand what instructors are saying and kind of read between the lines because you can't always get into,

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you know, an epic, you know, philosophy around something in the 60 minute class.

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And so there's these teacher they call them teacher trainings because that's the goal,

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they hope that you will also teach but you don't have to teach.

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So most of them are open to anyone and then that person can decide if they want to actually become a teacher.

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There's usually an application aspect to it,

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but there aren't really any prerequisites.

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You don't really need to, you know,

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have been teaching or uh practicing for like a year.

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It helps because the material that will,

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that you go through will land a little bit better or might land a little bit better.

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But I think it's really if you're curious,

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then take the plunge and that's where you really start to learn about what yoga is,

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how to do the postures and then also how to teach the postures if you choose to go down that route.

18:05

But a lot of that's usually a 200 hour or 250.

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That's kind of the baseline kind of teacher training that most schools or yoga studios will offer.

18:14

And then, you know, depends on what kind of style you want to teach too.

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So that's kind of where someone might choose a program over another.

18:21

So I ended up doing Vinyasa or Power yoga where it's more breath to movement,

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a little bit more fluid or dance. Really, like there's a bunch of other different modalities of yoga that you could go down that people may be more drawn to than others.

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And so that's another um kind of weigh in and you might want to think about the program a different way.

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But the philosophy is still the same way. I think really the only difference is the actual movement structure and then the bro structure and then maybe what's offered.

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So some of them might offer chanting,

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some might offer mood are, you know,

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hand specific placements with hands and gestures.

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Um And some people might not be into that or that might be too woo woo for them is what we say in yoga.

19:08

But uh but yeah, there's a, there's a vast variety of even just different um kind of types of yoga to teach.

19:17

And was there a time and you can correct me if I have this wrong?

19:21

There was a time that you kind of stopped teaching, right?

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So you kind of walked away from it and was that because of time because it was,

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you were just wanted some, you just wanted to break or was and in that space did it,

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did you miss it? Did you realize it was really something important?

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I'm gonna guess that you did. But because this is a segue into you coming back into the journey and then taking it now to becoming a therapist.

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So that space of time when you walked away from it was uh I believe,

19:55

was it when you moved out here a little bit or after you had been out here in The Pacific Northwest since you had moved from,

20:02

um Minnesota. Yeah. So it was,

20:05

before I moved here, I was teaching in Minneapolis and I wasn't having the best experience teaching.

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It felt like I was getting held to all of these standards that were about making the studio money and about the more corporatization of yoga,

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which was very opposite to me of what yoga is and what yoga feels like it should be.

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And I just didn't like that aspect of it.

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And I didn't feel like I was getting, you know, the feedback and mentorship that I was craving because of I was a new teacher.

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You know, I was at a studio in a franchise studio that had all these incredible instructors that have taught me so much about yoga that I was like,

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this will be a great environment to learn from.

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But the studio I was at specifically just wasn't doing it for me.

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And then at the same time,

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I was in this really awful relationship that was not just only emotional abuse,

21:08

but also sexual abuse.

21:10

And with that, it made me become really disconnected to my body and to my mind and my experience of life.

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And so with that kind of teaching,

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you know, no, no support in teaching and then kind of really losing myself into this relationship.

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It just kind of went away and I very much I didn't at the time know I missed it because there were other things happening.

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And I was starting to go into another version of survival mode that felt very familiar from even when I was an adolescent,

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which I think also helped contribute to why I fell in love with yoga to the big at the beginning.

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But it was really that relationship that kind of pulled me away.

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And then when I moved out to the Pacific Northwest,

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I found yoga again. I started teaching and it was like night and day.

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I had, had maybe 23 years where I wasn't teaching and just entering the studio,

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I had all of this anxiety and it just came back to me like no one's business where I was just like riding a bike.

22:14

Yeah. And it was kind of wild how I was so nervous to teach in Minneapolis.

22:19

And then I go to a studio in Ballard and have my first class.

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And I remember coming back from that class being like,

22:27

I want to do this for the rest of my life.

22:29

All right. That's beautiful. Um So that's actually a perfect segue because that interest first,

22:38

how it came to you as a really,

22:40

I, I need to have a balance and stress release to having taken it away from you by way of um an outside influence.

22:50

Then ultimately, you came back to it and now you have decided to pursue becoming a certified,

22:58

if I can't call it that a certified yoga therapist.

23:01

So for folks that do not know that difference because you touched on it a little bit earlier,

23:08

I think, and I certainly do think of yoga as exercise.

23:11

Right. I think of it as, you know,

23:13

stretching and flexibility,

23:15

potentially meditative, right?

23:18

Uh Focus on breath and sometimes um just having a grounding place,

23:23

I don't necessarily think about it in a almost like a physical therapy kind of way.

23:29

So talk a little bit about the difference between just being a yoga instructor to being also now becoming a therapist and how,

23:37

how that for people that might be interested in.

23:40

It's a two part question. So um you know,

23:43

how people might consider, do I take up yoga?

23:47

Do I want to get into yoga or do I want to actually see a yoga therapist?

23:50

So first part of that question is the evolution into what is yoga therapy and becoming certified to teach that or to be a yoga therapist?

23:59

Yeah. So I, I think there,

24:03

there is even a lot of confusion in our, in the program that I'm in with all of us yoga instructors is like,

24:08

how do we differentiate this ourselves?

24:11

And I think for me, what I've landed on is the body is the way in to yoga.

24:17

And I think that's where a lot of people find yoga is.

24:20

It is a form of exercise. You are moving your body,

24:23

it is strength building and there are other,

24:26

you know, situations where you can actually do like yoga fit or,

24:30

you know, do it with weights and bands and actually do a full on exercise.

24:35

Um But really, I think there's this component to yoga outside of the exercise where it becomes more of that spirituality and it becomes a way of being able to be more holistic within body and mind.

24:53

And I think that's where yoga therapy then takes it to another level.

24:57

So yoga is you have these certain formats that you go to ST styles like Vinyasa,

25:04

Ashtanga hatha, things that are kind of,

25:07

you know what to expect, you know, what poses you're going to go to.

25:11

And yoga therapy really works with people that have either chronic pain and some of them oftentimes have medical conditions,

25:19

they're either working with other medical professionals that have been recommended yoga therapy as a way to help them with whatever condition dealing with.

25:29

And so there's that component. So that recommendation is that coming from a physical therapist,

25:34

a doctor could be both, it could be one or the other,

25:36

it could be a therapist, talk therapist,

25:38

a psychoanalytic analytic therapist.

25:41

It could be a medical doctor, a physical therapy or all three of them.

25:45

Um It really could and it doesn't have to necessarily be a referral either.

25:49

I think that way in it helps uh inform a yoga and therap a yoga therapist kind of how they want to uh adapt yoga for you.

26:00

But really the best thing about yoga therapy is it's a co creation with the person.

26:05

So it's not just, oh, I'm gonna put you in all these poses just because I know these poses from this lineage of yoga.

26:12

It's what's happening in your body.

26:14

What's happening in your mind and how do we adapt yoga to meet you where you're at physically?

26:20

And then how do, then we address all the other aspects of your humanity,

26:24

your emotional state, your physical state,

26:27

your spiritual state. What brings you joy?

26:30

What is hindering you from joy?

26:32

And it's more of a looking at the whole person rather than treating symptoms and treating conditions.

26:39

It's helping those conditions for sure.

26:41

But it's also saying, ok, you might have multiple sclero multiple sclerosis,

26:46

but you aren't multiple sclerosis.

26:49

You are a human being who is experiencing X condition.

26:53

And now let's give you some opportunity to explore that and to kind of find your yourself in that and be able to give you that kind of self study or svi ya ya is what we call it in yoga to be able to kind of start that healing journey.

27:10

OK. That's uh that's so because when you and I were talking initially,

27:15

I, I think I like to think I,

27:17

I was a yoga person or I have,

27:20

I've done it at different parts of my life, but I never thought of it in the context that you just described.

27:26

Um it's almost like building a program,

27:28

right. It's building a yoga program specific to the person that you are seeing,

27:34

uh, in order to make sure that they can get the most out of it.

27:37

Because I know and you had it too,

27:39

those first sessions, you go into a yoga class and maybe there's people that have been doing it for a really long time and you can't do the pose,

27:48

you can't bend like that, you can't shift like that.

27:50

And then you start to be like I'm a failure,

27:53

I can't get there. And so this idea that there's a yes,

27:58

the cats agree with that. Um There's almost a customization and a deeper connection to being able to embrace yoga within limitations that your body has.

28:10

And it kind of allows that healing and higher sense of connection to occur.

28:18

Uh Maybe in people that were intimidated or maybe left a yoga class because they just were like,

28:23

I can't do this. And so I love um I love how you describe it,

28:27

even if you know, it's still a kind of a within your own program,

28:31

kind of how do you define it? You've defined it really beautifully there.

28:35

And I, I would ask you in this journey and it could be the whole of the yoga journey,

28:42

but also the, the way in which you've gotten to this point,

28:49

you cho you chose to want to do this the therapist route as the evolution of your instructor ship correct.

28:56

Was there a moment that you were just like I need to do this.

29:00

How did it become something instructor to therapist that you found you wanted to pursue that?

29:07

A light switch on? Did you coming out of the pandemic?

29:11

Which we all were profoundly affected?

29:14

You're like, how do I take my love of yoga to the next level?

29:17

What was, what is that part of the journey for you of,

29:20

of wanting to actually go down the therapy route?

29:23

Yeah. So I think it was more from the philosophical standpoint of yoga.

29:29

I wanted to know more.

29:31

There was this kind of internal craving to go deeper that,

29:36

yeah, I could read it in a book and there are many books out there that you can,

29:40

you know, read about yoga philosophy and the kind of spiritual aspect.

29:44

But I think it's very different when you're in a training program because you have someone that has experience with that and you have someone to bounce ideas off of when you have a sensation come up.

29:58

So when I was thinking about it, it's like I do want to,

30:01

you know, I had my 200 hour, I knew I wanted to do more teachings.

30:05

There's the 200 hour and then the 300 hour and then combine that's 500 hours of teacher training.

30:11

That is kind of the most uh you can get within kind of the yoga world instructor level,

30:17

not the therapy level. Yeah. And so what I liked about the program is I was like,

30:22

well, you know, yoga therapy seems like a really great route to go down because I have had some immense healing through yoga.

30:34

And it's felt like therapy to me in all aspects.

30:38

You know, it's brought up things that I've been able to cope with.

30:40

It helps me with my breathing. I have asthma so I can reconnect with my body and my breath that way it helps me energetically.

30:47

It helps me feel connected in my body,

30:50

but also feels like exercise as well.

30:53

I've used it as a way to stay active and fit.

30:56

It's been a great counteractive uh practice to running and it's helped me,

31:01

you know, be a better runner because of the yoga that I've been doing.

31:05

And so it just felt like for me,

31:08

it was yoga is therapy.

31:11

And so then I was like, well,

31:13

does that exist? And then I was like,

31:16

oh yoga therapy. There it is.

31:18

And I looked at this program here in Seattle and was it had a 300 hour component on top of being able to do your clinical hours and be able to get certified at the end of the program and be able to become a yoga therapist.

31:34

And through going through this program where I'm at now,

31:37

I think I, we have about a year and a half left the amount of self study or Svea that I've gone through,

31:44

I feel like I've gone through like a decade of therapy myself again and it's helped me reprocess things that I thought I've already processed or let go of or that I didn't realize we've,

31:56

we have this thing in or I don't know if it's a thing in just our group.

31:59

But I really like the, uh, one of our,

32:02

another yoga therapist said the issues are in the tissues and I really like that where it's like there are times where you,

32:10

anybody is doing yoga and all of a sudden you just start crying or you have this really big sensation because you are in a posture where you're like,

32:18

whoa, what's that? And there's been so much of that through this program,

32:22

there's been so much philosophy and there's just been so much inner wisdom that I've been able to gain and grow through that inner wisdom,

32:30

to be able to have some more self acceptance,

32:34

to understand what real self care is and how to really love myself in that way that so many people talk about these days.

32:45

It's not selfishness. It's being able to say,

32:48

hey, I'm your partner with you and I want to see your life from the lens that you want to see your life from.

32:55

Yeah. Yeah. Beautifully said um because I do think uh I have done um Reiki and that has also brought out um some emotional release,

33:10

particularly when I broke my ankle.

33:13

And I was going through a really tough time trying to get that healed and sorted.

33:17

And the idea of uh moving your body and sort of centering the energy around your body can be quite a release.

33:26

Uh and it can be really deep from tears and it's really an avenue to healing,

33:33

right? Because your body's kind of releasing whatever that is to kind of clear it out and move on to next.

33:38

And so it's a good segue actually into the next question,

33:42

which is the idea of what's been the most rewarding aspect.

33:45

Has it been the fact that this has actually been almost a secondary set of years where you feel you've done some,

33:54

some serious healing within yourself?

33:56

Or is there something more than that? It sounds like that's what it would be.

33:59

But I don't want to assume if there was another part of that too that has come out of embracing this journey onto therapist.

34:06

Yeah. So I would say it is a large part of kind of my own self healing.

34:13

Um Majority of my life I've spent in survival mode and,

34:18

you know, growing up in rural Minnesota was not the easiest also being a gay man going through that also helped get me into this dissociative sense of like it almost is like I my identity was in my survival and I didn't know anything different.

34:36

I didn't know that there was a possibility to experience something else in this world or to be happy or to find joy or to love myself the way that I would think a parent would love their child because I didn't,

34:50

you know, understand what that was. I never really got that growing up.

34:54

And uh to me,

34:57

yoga has been the parent or the guide that I wish I always had.

35:03

And so what I think of with yoga therapy is now I get to offer that gift to somebody else and hopefully guide them in down their journey of healing,

35:14

down their journey of self discovery and down their connection with their body and their mind,

35:20

especially in a society that pulls us away from ourselves constantly that makes us self sacrifice that makes us self sabotage.

35:29

That it's just so ingrained into so many things that we do.

35:32

We go, go, go, go, go busy, busy,

35:34

busy, busy. One thing after the next,

35:37

my plate's always full and we're,

35:39

you hear it from so many people. I just wish I had more time.

35:43

I wish I had more time. And what yoga gives you is that time within yourself that feels limitless.

35:50

And I think that's really what I want to offer other people is,

35:54

yes, I have my own healing. But what is your healing look like?

35:57

And I would love to be your guide with that journey.

36:01

I love that. Uh because I think,

36:04

and I can't remember if I mentioned this in another one of the interviews this idea that when people get to the end of their life,

36:10

like Colleen, our beloved Colleen Coleman,

36:13

who we interviewed a few episodes back.

36:15

She talks about no one talks about at the end of their life.

36:18

I wish I had more cars. I wish I had more money.

36:21

I wish I had a bigger title. They talk about time,

36:25

preciousness of spending time with loved ones uh and being really present and the gift that that is that we sometimes take advantage or we don't take advantage of when we are,

36:40

let's say younger. And it is really in those final chapters of that becomes so,

36:44

so sharp and clear. Even the cats agree and they generally have nine lives.

36:50

So, you know, what do you feel has been the most challenging part of this journey for you?

36:55

Yeah, I think the biggest challenge specifically in this program because obviously I struggled.

37:02

I left yoga for a little while and I think that was a struggle to even come back to it.

37:07

I think there's a lot of fear around which kind of leads into why,

37:12

you know, I have a struggle in my current program is this pervasiveness that I'm not good enough.

37:20

I'm not going to be a good teacher. I'm not going to be a good therapist.

37:24

I'm not going to be good enough because I never felt like I was good enough.

37:29

So it's the self doubt to track that starts to spin and I think with this current program,

37:38

there's so much information and there's so many avenues that you can go down in yoga therapy and so many tools that you can offer someone that is incredible and it's wonderful,

37:51

but it can oftentimes feel overwhelming.

37:54

Am I gonna need to know every condition someone comes to me with?

37:58

Do I? It's like mini med school almost if you will,

38:01

where it's, you know, that can be really overwhelming and it's like,

38:04

do I? Well, I, you know, offer this,

38:07

you know, posture or adaptation the right way will I?

38:10

But at the end of the day, it's not my job to fix anyone.

38:14

It's my job to guide them towards the things that work for them and let everything else go and there may be times where it doesn't work out and that's ok too.

38:27

Teachers, therapists, you gravitate towards them and you gravitate towards and you gravitate away from some of them,

38:35

not everybody. I'm not going to be everybody's best solution and being ok with that,

38:42

I can be ok with that. And I think it's this,

38:45

this probably people pleasing aspect of me that comes up where I just wanna,

38:49

I just wanna help everyone and,

38:52

but also in helping someone, especially a lot of empathetic people and empathic people,

38:58

it's draining and if you can't take care of yourself,

39:01

if you can't put on your oxygen mask,

39:03

then you can't help somebody else. Colleen talked about that too.

39:07

And in the episode, she was, I may not be somebody,

39:10

I may not have the right frequency as a medium to,

39:13

for that person. That doesn't mean that they couldn't find it with another person.

39:18

And so I think that's true. It's kind of like when we have a doctor that we really,

39:22

like, we stick with them, but maybe it takes us a few to find that person and there is nothing wrong with either that doctor or the patient.

39:33

It's just, are you finding the right fit between each other?

39:37

And I commend you for uh making sure that you,

39:42

you're keeping that in the right perspective where you're putting your best foot forward.

39:46

This is how you're approaching the craft if we can call it the craft with practice and that it's ok if it doesn't work and it's ok if,

39:56

if it's not gonna be for everybody,

39:58

your style or whatnot, it doesn't make you any less of what you're essentially giving back and contributing as part of the entire practice of yoga therapy.

40:06

So, and that takes a lot of courage, I think and also a lot of um belief in yourself.

40:11

And I know, I think you and I both we're constantly working on that.

40:15

Right? Half of the episodes in this podcast talk about sort of those moments in time where you have to develop that mantra for yourself or you have to develop that belief in yourself or you have to trust your instincts or whatever that is.

40:26

So, it's all good and it's a,

40:29

it's a good place to get to it and to be with what you're,

40:32

what you're planning to do. Um And so this is,

40:36

might be an interesting one. What surprised you as part of this journey?

40:39

What's the thing that you've been kind of an aha moment about it that I know more than I give myself credit for.

40:45

I am starting to see clients and in my clinical hours.

40:50

So I'm still learning and I have a mentor,

40:53

but just a few clients that I've seen and especially now kind of in the program,

40:59

it's really turning towards how is it like or what is it like to work specifically with clients?

41:04

What's that relationship like? How do you,

41:07

you know, bring up all of these things in a yoga therapy session?

41:11

And surprisingly, like when I write my,

41:14

my notes and I do my client logs,

41:16

I'm like, wow, this is really solidifying in my brain and it's coming out of me more naturally than,

41:25

you know, where you study it for a test and you have to have the right answer.

41:30

I'm being more ok with not necessarily having the right answer,

41:34

but what's the right answer for the time being?

41:38

Because it's a journey,

41:41

you're going down a path of discovery with this client,

41:44

you're not going to know everything from the get go and you might not know everything at the end and you might work with someone and they might,

41:51

you know, leave and then come back and leave and come back and that's ok too.

41:55

And so it's almost,

41:57

um, I think the, the big surprise for me is befriending my failure and it's now becoming my best friend.

42:06

Oh, wow. That's a great, we often run from failure.

42:10

Right. Or we, it, it takes a while to recover that befriend your failure.

42:16

We might honorarily put that as one of our uh life mantras that we have,

42:21

we have five of them, I think out on the website.

42:23

But the, but they've, they've evolved exactly in a situation like this where you're,

42:29

you know, for me, I was going through something and,

42:32

you know, you come up with a saying that's just sort of getting you through it and then you realize you keep coming back to that and it becomes something that actually you identify with more and more and more as you grow older or as you go through more stuff.

42:46

And what seems like an off hand comment at the time becomes that guiding mantra phrase of befriend your failure.

42:54

And I think you might have already touched on this.

42:57

But to hone in on it is sort of the biggest or maybe the most important lesson the journey is teaching you.

43:03

Because obviously on this podcast, we like to talk about things we're learning about ourselves.

43:08

Maybe it is befriending my failure or befriending your failure.

43:12

Is there something else that might stick out?

43:15

That's really like I've learned this about me and this is a life lesson I'm carrying forward.

43:20

Yeah, I, I didn't realize how much of an over thinker I actually am.

43:28

And this has really given me a lot of pause to be able to accept myself.

43:35

So I talked a lot about self love and self acceptance.

43:39

And even before this program,

43:41

and I think COVID really also made me face this head on is I'm going to be with me for the rest of my life and I have to be ok with me for the rest of my life.

43:53

So how can I sit down with myself and take myself out to coffee and be like,

43:58

hey, how are you, what's going on with you today instead of judging my thoughts instead of thinking,

44:04

every thought is a fact instead of letting every emotion control me.

44:08

But getting curious about, hm.

44:10

That's weird. Why being a human being humans odd,

44:15

isn't it? We have our good days and we have our bad days.

44:18

And so I think I'm handling myself with more grace than I ever have in my life.

44:26

And that, that,

44:28

you know, self care isn't just taking a bath.

44:30

It's so much more than that. It's the daily affirmations that you say to yourself.

44:35

It's the reframing of thoughts. It's honestly doing that inner work that can be incredibly transformative to meet yourself where you're at so you can start to have a relationship with yourself.

44:47

Yeah. And I, I would say I'm,

44:50

I've done that as well. Um,

44:53

we've got the cats playing with the toy in case anyone's going,

44:56

what is the little scratchy in the background? Um,

44:59

I, that idea of sitting with yourself and sitting in space and grace,

45:07

how hard that sometimes really is because we do,

45:10

maybe try to overthink that and be, oh no,

45:12

we shouldn't do that or no, no, come on or you know,

45:15

buck up buttercup and you know, deal with it and it's like,

45:18

no, no, you, you do need to kind of check in with yourself and if you're not having your best day and you need a moment or you want to think about something that's making you feel maybe adding to a struggle.

45:35

It's the pushing it away and not facing that and not dealing with it that actually is far more harmful than taking the moment to,

45:42

to really be in it. You have to sit with it though and it can be uncomfortable and I'm certainly feels like that's the last X number of years,

45:52

but I know that I'm better for it. And so to hear you say that as somebody going through a journey that can potentially help others,

46:01

maybe discover that as part of their healing journey.

46:04

Um I think it, it, it resonates,

46:07

it certainly resonates with me. It should resonate with a lot of people.

46:09

But that also is kind of how you're coming at your practice too.

46:13

And that, that's just what people can, can expect because I'm sure I'm speculating people could,

46:20

you know, come into it and be like,

46:22

no, that's not me. I'm, I'm fine. I'm good and then go through a session or several sessions and have that emotional release and be,

46:29

well, maybe I'm not, maybe I need to really address that and think that we like to say that we're,

46:36

we're a container to hold space for other people.

46:40

But you also have to be your own container to hold space for yourself.

46:44

And I'm sure you've experienced it.

46:46

I know I've experienced it when someone hears you and sees you for who you are.

46:51

It's like in the heart,

46:54

like I could almost tear up now thinking about feeling that experience when someone truly sees you,

47:01

we just don't get a lot of those moments in life.

47:03

And I think that's really what, what yoga therapy is for me as well.

47:08

How do I create this container for this person who's going through anything and everything good,

47:16

bad or otherwise? And how do I hold space for them to feel vulnerable,

47:21

to share with me and to go deeper into the practice and be willing to explore those,

47:27

you know, maybe shadow parts of themselves or be ok with something came up and,

47:33

you know, process that with me. That's a really sacred space to be in.

47:37

And I feel really grateful and lucky that I'm going into that space and I can be that container for other folks.

47:43

Well, I can, I can say, as somebody who worked for you at one point in my life and especially during a very strange time,

47:51

which was the pandemic. Uh there you showed that in spades and I,

47:57

that was incredibly important,

47:59

particularly at that period of time. And so I absolutely see that as a strength for you and what you will bring into this practice when it becomes kind of the full time thing.

48:09

Cats agree again, I love that the cats are actually weighing in on like some really key moments.

48:14

I feel like they are. There's all these memes going around on Instagram right now where you can capture them actually seeing almost like they are saying hello or thank you.

48:23

It's the greatest thing. There's one where the cat runs out.

48:26

I think it's an Amazon driver that delivers the package and she's like,

48:31

it's like literally says hello.

48:33

And he's like, well, hey, how are you?

48:35

And so there's the secret thing of they've always been able to do that and they just do it when they can.

48:40

And she look straight back at me when I said that.

48:42

So that's pretty funny. Which is funny because they wouldn't even come near you,

48:46

you know, a few weeks ago. And now they want to be all around you.

48:51

Yes, so small cat digression. But I'm sure people,

48:53

cat lovers out there will appreciate it. So, um as you know,

48:57

or as I like to share with people, our tagline here on the podcast is navigating life one story at a time.

49:05

So I would say what has been or I'd ask you what has been the one key go to thing that has helped you navigate your life story up until this point.

49:16

It can be yoga. It could be a mantra,

49:19

a ritual, a practice. What is the one thing that you keep returning to that has helped you thus far in your life journey?

49:27

And if it's yoga, that's ok. But if there was something else too,

49:32

I will say yoga is a big part,

49:35

but it's gonna sound maybe really strange.

49:38

I would say the thing that really brings me back to myself.

49:42

And I, I'm sure some people have heard this before,

49:44

but when I really am going through it and I'm just like stressed out anxious or I'm just like at my wits end,

49:53

I get in front of a mirror and I have a conversation with myself.

49:58

I explain what's happening. So I can see myself,

50:01

explain it. And I can see how I'm reacting to the story that I'm telling myself and having that mirror in front of you.

50:09

I can't hide from what's coming up. I'm literally seeing it in real time.

50:14

And when I think back in my life.

50:16

When, when I've done that, it's given me so much clarity and I think it's really just proven the fact that like you've been your best friend,

50:26

your whole life and you don't even realize it. You've sat down with yourself in these moments that have been really tumultuous and you looked yourself in your eyes and said,

50:35

I'm hurting. We need help.

50:39

Can we heal and to hear yourself say that and see it in your own eyes.

50:44

It just, it really just for me,

50:46

at least it breaks me down to a level that helps me see that I'm human because what I like to do is say,

50:53

oh well, that's for other people. Other people can heal,

50:56

other people can do this. You know, I want to put myself on the back burner,

51:00

but I can't do that if I'm gonna thrive in life.

51:04

And so being able to literally see myself in a mirror,

51:09

it's been my little ritual that I go to even in times of happiness,

51:13

I'll, you know, have that conversation with myself and it doesn't happen.

51:16

You know, I don't do it every week. It's not a consistent thing.

51:20

It just when I feel like exactly like,

51:22

hey, you, hey girl,

51:24

no, it's not that. But in those moments of like I think I need,

51:29

this needs to reset me in a way,

51:32

especially, you know, this, you know, being out here for so long,

51:35

my family is all back in Minnesota and you know,

51:38

having that kind of center within myself and that connection when I really need someone to connect with.

51:45

It's been really um groundbreaking for me.

51:49

I, I have recently started to um it's a hard conversation but like I will,

51:56

I might be brushing my teeth or something and I'm thinking about something and I was just stand stare in the mirror and just be like you need to do that.

52:04

Nobody else but you, and there is something incredibly powerful of you staring back at you and talking directly to you that you,

52:14

something shifts and you kind of accept what it is that you either have to do or it brings you to a place of.

52:23

Yeah. OK. That's what I'm feeling.

52:25

So I, you saying that I'm,

52:28

I'm kind of, I was quietly going, wow. I,

52:30

I kind of started almost doing that.

52:32

Maybe not the full mirror, but definitely from like head up.

52:35

I've kind of been like, hey, you in the mirror.

52:39

Um, so as we wind down,

52:44

um, we have our c 17 questionnaire.

52:47

So, uh, it is modeled after the Bernard pivot questionnaire.

52:52

Did you ever watch inside the actors studio at some point?

52:56

James Lipton? Yeah, it's been a long time but it's fine.

52:59

It's ok if you didn't. Um, I always,

53:01

uh, I always love that part of his,

53:04

um, show because,

53:06

uh, for those that are not familiar, he used to bring on pretty much any actor ever.

53:11

And often the biggest name, actors and in these very short series of questions which were rapid fire,

53:17

they're meant to be answered. The first thing that comes to your mind,

53:20

he could get to some very poignant moments with some of these folks.

53:24

And so I have adopted it.

53:26

Uh And I've changed a few of the questions.

53:29

They're not verbatim uh asking what he asked.

53:33

But the idea is that I asked the question and you say the first thing that comes to mind,

53:37

we don't talk about it for 20 minutes. It's just an instant kind of.

53:40

OK. And then that is, um that is in the spirit of where,

53:45

where the uh where James Lifton did it and then obviously Bernard PV.

53:48

Before that, so ready, let's do it.

53:51

Here we go. What is your favorite lucky number?

53:56

And if you do not have a favorite lucky number,

53:58

what would be your favorite lucky item,

54:01

object or charm? 21?

54:03

21? OK. What is your favorite word or expression?

54:09

Huh? Uh That really grinds my gears.

54:15

Really grinds my ears.

54:18

Yeah. No, that's fine. What or where is your happy place?

54:25

I would say I was gonna say mountains but to be a little bit more specific,

54:30

uh I would say Rainier or Tahoma. And if you have not ever seen Mount Rainier,

54:35

it's a beautiful place here in the Pacific Northwest.

54:38

What is the best life experience that you have had to date probably when I studied abroad,

54:46

I was able to travel Europe for 4.5 months.

54:51

And what would you say is the hardest life test you have faced to date self acceptance.

54:59

Who or what is your greatest inspiration?

55:03

Um Probably my brother and my sister.

55:06

What is the best piece of life advice or wisdom you have received?

55:12

Take what works and leave the rest.

55:15

What is the best piece of life advice or wisdom you have given or shared?

55:21

I think it's a form of this. Uh You're the only person that has to wake up to you every day.

55:28

So you have to be ok with you.

55:31

And if there was one place in the world you could travel to tomorrow,

55:36

where would it be? And why? 00,

55:40

that's a hard one. I would probably say right now in this moment,

55:48

probably Patagonia. Why the mountains?

55:52

I just, I feel every time I look at photos,

55:56

it just, it reminds me of the North Cascades here and I absolutely love the North Cascades.

56:03

And I think uh every time I see pictures,

56:07

I just have this yearning to go there and experience what those mountains are like.

56:13

Anything you want to add as we close out.

56:16

I don't think so. If you're looking for yoga therapy,

56:20

you'll have my contact information. That's right.

56:22

We will. Um So we will post um all of Nathan's information in our show notes as well.

56:28

As any, as I go back and listen to it, anything else that um sticks out for people to have information?

56:33

I sincerely thank you for doing this.

56:35

It has been a true pleasure to talk a little bit more in depth about it with you and to hear just the thoughtfulness by which you are approaching,

56:43

becoming this practitioner because knowing you,

56:46

as I do personally, I could not think of somebody better suited for this and that anyone who will be coming to you as a client will be incredibly,

56:58

it will benefit them in more ways than one.

57:00

So I appreciate your time and thank you very much and I'm glad we've crossed paths up here.

57:05

So, yeah. Well, thank you for having me and it was a pleasure chatting with you as always,

57:10

as always, thank you for tuning in to another episode of Life Notes from chair 17.

57:21

Remember to follow and subscribe. So you never miss an episode.

57:24

We'll see you next time.