0:01

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out! The

0:04

Joe Rogan Experience. Train

0:06

by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night,

0:08

all day! What's

0:11

up, Coleman? Good

0:13

to see you. I'm good, man. Good to see you again. What's

0:16

crackin'? Well, I'm good, you know. You're

0:19

great. You got a new book. Got a new book. End

0:21

of Race Politics, Arguments for Colorblind America.

0:25

Yeah, I saw you on The View. Yeah. Yeah,

0:27

so that's been overwhelming my

0:29

past couple days. Yeah, is that annoying?

0:32

No. No? No,

0:34

no. I mean, it's just... When I was on there, I

0:36

really had no idea how it was going to land with

0:38

the audience. So I just went in there,

0:40

did my thing. I had no idea what

0:42

to expect. I didn't know who Sunny

0:44

Hostin was. I actually still really don't know. So

0:47

I wasn't expecting necessarily for

0:49

her to kind of try to ambush me in that way and

0:53

attack my character in that way. And

0:56

I responded to it in the moment as I do. And

0:58

I didn't expect it to go as viral as it

1:00

did, but I think it arguably

1:03

went more viral than anything I've ever

1:05

done. It's hard for

1:07

me to totally tell, but I've just

1:09

got people messaging me almost nonstop for like

1:11

four days afterwards. Well, it is the show

1:13

that people love to hate. Yes,

1:16

that's true. They get so much

1:18

hate watching and hate

1:20

watching viral clips of them saying

1:22

ridiculous things. I mean,

1:24

it is a rabies

1:27

infested hen house. And

1:29

at the same time, it seemed like the most interesting

1:31

part was their audience seemed to be on my side.

1:33

Yes. And that's their

1:35

audience. Yes. Well, their audience is not really their

1:38

audience. Their audience is a group

1:40

of people they bring in to watch

1:42

television shows. I don't know if you've

1:44

ever seen audiences before for TV

1:46

shows, but a lot of them are paid.

1:48

They're paid to be there. So because they

1:50

have to guarantee that there's going to be

1:52

people there. So there's services that you hire.

1:55

And when the show gets really, really popular,

1:57

you know, like Letterman or something like that.

2:00

that obviously it has its own fan

2:02

base. Those people will try to

2:04

get tickets before anybody else does and in that

2:07

case they probably don't need to use the service

2:09

anymore. They just get actual

2:11

fans. But

2:13

arguably the fans, the

2:15

real fans of The View that are

2:17

like, oh these ladies are on point.

2:20

Most of those people can't leave the house. They're

2:22

probably immobile. Right, right, right because

2:24

they're their moms taking their kids to school

2:26

and that's yeah. It's a

2:29

very strange show but it's

2:31

fun to watch. It's just fun to watch

2:33

them. It's good entertainment. Yeah. Undoubtedly.

2:36

Well they're just, you know, it's interesting

2:38

because I think Sunny is very intelligent

2:40

but she's ideologically captured. Right. You

2:42

know, I think the other ones, there's

2:44

a couple of the other ones I don't have

2:46

to name any names. We're just very dull minded.

2:49

But I think Sunny's not one of them. I

2:51

think she's smart but captured. Sure. I think she

2:53

came into it with an agenda. Of

2:56

course. You know. Yeah.

2:59

You know. She came

3:02

into it, it seems, really wanting to paint me

3:04

as someone that has been co-opted by the right

3:06

wing. Yeah. And I don't know

3:08

how much research she had done into me. She

3:10

claimed to have read my book twice which is almost

3:12

certainly not true. Yeah.

3:15

I guess it was totally mis-summarizing. When did

3:17

the book come out? February.

3:21

The odds are very low. Very low, right? Yeah,

3:23

very low. Think of how many guests they have

3:26

on their show. How much time she has. Her family obligations.

3:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is it? About

3:30

250 pages? Something like that, yeah. I

3:33

don't think so. Yeah. But I mean, I

3:35

might be wrong. I mean, do you have an audiobook available?

3:37

I do, yeah. I read it myself. Maybe she did it

3:39

at double speed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Twice.

3:42

So I sounded like Ben Shapiro the whole time. Have

3:45

you ever listened to Ben Shapiro on

3:47

like 1.5 times? No. It's

3:49

kind of ridiculous. Yeah, it's insane. Ben

3:51

Shapiro to debate Destiny. Oh

3:53

my God. I know they did. They did debate.

3:56

Did they really? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. They did.

3:59

Who hosted them? Was it Lex? Was

4:02

it? I could be getting that wrong,

4:04

but I think Lex hosted a debate like two months

4:06

ago. Well, he had a debate a couple of months

4:08

ago, but it was a Palestine- No, no, that was

4:11

separate. I also saw that. Oh, he

4:13

did. That was like before hours. Yeah, there you

4:15

go. That guy debates everybody. Yeah. It's

4:17

so ridiculous. He does a Wikipedia search

4:19

and then just starts going after things

4:21

like he's an expert. Yeah.

4:24

It's just a fun time. It's

4:27

a really fun time. Yeah. And

4:29

watching people flail. Yeah,

4:32

for sure. Yeah. But

4:34

I think the problem with that show is

4:37

that show has this very specific

4:39

ideological bubble in which they operate

4:41

in. And they always bring on

4:43

a token conservative woman and they yell over her

4:45

and silence her. And they did that with Megan

4:47

McCain and they did that with the... Who's

4:50

that other blonde woman from Survivor? Do

4:52

you remember her, Jamie? She

4:54

was always yelling. It's

4:57

a bizarre show. So

4:59

we had eight minutes and America's

5:04

approach to race, pretty

5:06

big topic, pretty important topic. I

5:08

think the way you... Before you start, I think the way

5:11

you described it is brilliant and the

5:13

way we should all look at it. Of

5:15

course, you're going to see race. The

5:18

idea of being colorblind is ridiculous. But treat everybody.

5:20

They're just human beings. Everybody's

5:22

just individuals. That's right. That's what

5:24

we should all hope for. That's right.

5:26

And then this common phrase, I don't see

5:28

race, that's equated with colorblindness.

5:30

And the point in my book is I want

5:32

to say, get rid of that. Of

5:34

course we see race, certainly in America, in the

5:36

West. You could argue about whether children really see

5:39

race, but past a certain point, we

5:41

see race. Point is not to pretend

5:43

you don't see it. It's to say,

5:45

you're a white guy. I'm a black

5:47

and Hispanic guy. We noticed that.

5:49

We're not going to pretend it's not there. But

5:52

whenever it matters, I'm going to try to treat

5:54

you like an individual based on your personal qualities.

5:57

And we're going to ask the government to do

5:59

the same. get race out of public

6:01

policy, if you want to help disadvantaged

6:03

people, do that on the basis of class. 100%.

6:06

And understand that when you

6:08

see these incentives that are

6:10

put into corporations, these

6:13

are methods of control. And

6:15

that's what's going on when you

6:17

see things like DEI initiatives. You're

6:19

not really making the world a

6:22

better place. You're just allowing these

6:24

financial institutions to enact

6:26

control over corporations. And

6:29

it's a really shifty, weird way they're doing

6:31

it by making it seem like they're trying

6:33

to make the world a better, more equal

6:35

place. And then there's some people who

6:37

are good and tensioned but have

6:40

a very narrow perspective

6:42

and a very limited amount of

6:44

information that they're operating under that

6:46

will try to pretend that these

6:49

things are overall good, are net

6:51

positive. And Sunny

6:53

Hostin may be one of those people, but

6:56

so we had eight minutes to deal with

6:58

this topic on one of the biggest platforms

7:00

in the country, and especially an audience that

7:02

isn't my typical audience. If

7:05

anything, the views audience is really who needs to hear

7:07

my message the most. And

7:09

Sunny decided to take up a

7:11

few minutes of that precious eight

7:13

minutes and attack me as someone

7:16

who's been co-opted by the right and someone who's a

7:18

charlatan. Did she

7:20

use the term charlatan? She did.

7:23

It's funny because I actually didn't notice it in

7:25

real time. I kind of went in

7:27

one ear and out the other. How did she say

7:29

it? She said something

7:32

like a lot of

7:34

people in the black community, implicitly

7:36

herself included, think that you've been co-opted

7:38

by the right and that you're a

7:40

charlatan. Oh, wow. And

7:43

I explained to her I've only voted twice, both

7:45

for Democrats, Hillary and

7:47

Biden, very open to voting

7:49

for Republicans. So I'm a

7:52

political independent and I'm only young enough

7:54

to have voted twice. I'm

7:56

an analyst at CNN and I write for the

7:58

Free Press, which is Barry Weiss's. And

8:01

I'm independent in all those endeavors and

8:03

I patiently explain that and then basically ask

8:05

her to go back to the topic that

8:08

we're here to discuss. Yeah. Well,

8:10

it's a dumb way of addressing a

8:12

thing and to immediately say that someone's

8:14

been co-opted with no evidence whatsoever. There's

8:17

nothing about anything that you say that

8:20

seems right wing. You're

8:22

just objectively looking at these

8:25

subjects and giving a very

8:27

intelligent and measured opinion of

8:30

them. That's just not...

8:32

And just because some people who happen

8:34

to vote Republican may agree with you,

8:37

that's a ridiculous statement that

8:39

you're co-opted. I think you're probably

8:41

one of the least co-opted people I've ever talked to.

8:44

You're very open-minded and you're very

8:46

objective. I try

8:49

to be. I try to be. But

8:52

I would argue even if

8:55

I were co-opted, hypothetically, that

8:58

doesn't make my argument here right now wrong. Because

9:01

people that are co-opted sometimes say

9:03

true things. So even if I

9:06

were, I would say it's an

9:08

ad hominem attack. It's to the person rather than

9:10

to the argument. So let's get on to the

9:12

issue. And I think people... Part

9:15

of the reason it went viral is because what

9:18

people have told me is you very

9:20

rarely see someone who gets a character

9:22

attack on a big TV platform calmly

9:25

expose it as evidence-free and then just

9:27

move back to the topic. Yeah, well, that was

9:29

beautiful that you did that. And that's how everybody

9:31

should approach these things. And the problem is that's

9:34

not what people want to do. What they want

9:36

to do is engage in argument and try to

9:38

win. And it's not really

9:40

about having an open mind and listening

9:42

to what this person has to say and trying to

9:44

figure out whether or not it resonates with you. Instead,

9:47

they're just trying to win and trying

9:49

to win in this weird sound-biting way.

9:54

Those platforms, whether

9:56

it's The View or any number

9:58

of these panel platforms... They're so

10:01

inherently flawed just in

10:03

the way it's formatted.

10:06

You only have a small amount of time. You

10:08

have all these people talking. They

10:14

can't compete with

10:16

internet shows because

10:18

internet shows are free. I

10:21

don't mean free like you don't have to pay for it.

10:24

I mean free. They're free to talk

10:26

about anything. There's not a producer in your ear. There's

10:28

not someone saying we have to cut the commercial. There's

10:31

not executive meetings before talking about

10:33

an agenda that you would like

10:35

to. We have to hammer him on

10:38

this. This is really important with the

10:40

election coming up. The

10:44

whole election coming up thing freaked me out

10:46

because I think everybody's in this weird

10:50

pre-battle anxiety stage.

10:55

Everything is life or death and this

10:57

goddamn phrase that gets tossed around every

10:59

five minutes is just a

11:03

threat to democracy. Everything

11:05

is a threat to democracy except things

11:07

that actually probably are a threat to

11:09

democracy. You see people talking about the

11:11

threats to democracy and

11:13

they ignore intelligence

11:16

communities censoring social

11:18

media which should be terrifying to people.

11:20

It should be terrifying to people because

11:23

this could happen on

11:25

the left, on the right. It could happen for

11:27

a number of reasons. It could happen for reasons

11:30

that would be terrible for your life. Yeah.

11:33

RFK was on CNN I think yesterday

11:36

and he said something that I think I've

11:38

said before and privately and I feel which

11:40

is that I think America would survive former

11:43

years of Trump or former years of Biden.

11:46

I think America and the republic is strong

11:48

enough to survive either. Neither

11:51

one of them is a very good option in my view. I

11:54

think we're given two very bad options but

11:56

I also think don't

11:58

move to Canada. I think we're going to be okay. Don't

12:00

move to Canada. Canada's even worse. Yeah,

12:02

Canada's a mess But

12:04

people don't like that opinion because they

12:07

I think they enjoy we enjoy the

12:09

existential stakes Of of politics

12:12

even if it might not be there every

12:14

time. Yeah, I agree Now

12:16

I disagreed back in 2015 2016 when I was hearing how trump

12:18

was speaking on uh, Uh,

12:23

you know Muslims on the registry

12:25

all this kind of stuff. I

12:27

was one of the people that was worried. He would be a fascist

12:30

truthfully But then what happened

12:32

is we had four years of governance from

12:34

him where he basically governed like a typical

12:37

republican and in some ways even Uh

12:40

had some policies that were to the left

12:42

of what republicans would do for instance on

12:44

on criminal justice reform He was very progressive

12:47

he made um, uh funding

12:49

for black colleges and universities permanent which

12:52

if obama had done either of those

12:54

things he would have been criticized as

12:56

playing left-wing identity politics, right and

12:58

so uh, I I

13:00

slowly realized that there is a pretty big

13:02

distance between what trump says and what he

13:04

does I don't understand

13:07

that fact about him, but I think it is

13:09

a fact about him And so

13:12

that's why I I don't feel alarmist the

13:14

way I did when I voted

13:16

for hillary in uh in 2016 Really

13:18

voted against trump Now

13:20

that being said trump is a wild guy

13:22

and is difficult to predict I

13:25

don't think he's someone you want behind the wheel, uh

13:27

in a in a crisis time Uh,

13:30

and then on the other hand we have

13:32

biden who who has clear evidence of of

13:34

cognitive decline um vying

13:36

for the what's supposed to be the

13:39

most important and challenging job

13:41

in the world certainly in the country and

13:44

People essentially claiming that it doesn't matter

13:46

that he has obvious cognitive decline, which

13:48

is hilarious I mean not only that

13:50

but gaslighting you yeah, that's his superpower.

13:52

Did you see that article? No, I

13:54

didn't the biden's age Is

13:56

his superpower seth mcfarlane retweeted it.

13:59

I agree I couldn't have stated this any

14:01

better myself. What are you talking about? No.

14:03

What are you talking about? It doesn't make it – one way I've

14:06

thought about it is there's

14:08

so much BS in politics. One of

14:10

the great things about the market is that it's honest

14:12

because if you lie, you lose money. So

14:15

if you look at when lots of money is on

14:17

the line, who do people want leading their organizations? Look

14:20

at the MBA. Look at the MLB. Who do

14:22

people get as head coaches? Usually people in their

14:24

50s is the median age because you've

14:27

been around long enough that you've made

14:29

a lot of dumb mistakes that 20-year-olds

14:31

and 30-year-olds make, and you've learned those

14:34

things that you can only learn with age. But

14:38

in your 50s, you've still

14:40

got the vast majority of your cognitive power

14:42

there and your energy, if you're

14:44

healthy, that is. So that's really the

14:46

sweet spot. We want a president somewhere

14:48

in our 50s. We

14:50

don't want to Biden. No, we want someone

14:53

with life experience and hopefully someone that doesn't

14:55

exist solely in politics.

14:58

Someone who hasn't become

15:00

– their roots haven't been

15:02

deeply entrenched in the system.

15:05

Someone who can maybe have some sort of

15:07

an outsider's perspective that can look at the

15:09

problems with the current situation and the way

15:12

things are structured, the way money

15:14

is allocated and the way funding is done,

15:16

the way bills are passed, which is a

15:18

giant issue like when they sandwich

15:21

these 2,000-page bills with a bunch of stuff

15:23

that has nothing to do

15:25

with – it should be illegal. It shouldn't

15:27

be legal to have a bill about what's –

15:30

for a popular topic, the

15:32

border issue, the border crisis, and

15:36

embed in that funding for Ukraine. Like what – Yeah,

15:38

it doesn't make any sense to do with it. It's

15:40

nothing to do with it. It's a couple of those

15:42

issues. Yeah, I mean, a few months ago. So basically,

15:44

you've had the Biden administration ignoring the border

15:46

issue for several years because

15:49

they wanted to signal sort of

15:51

how non-Trump they were, right?

15:53

And the border is Trump's issue, so Biden comes in and

15:55

he says, we're going to undo everything Trump did with the

15:57

border, even though a lot of people are going to do

15:59

it. of those policies are actually widely supported

16:02

and smart.

16:05

So they undo everything. The migrant crisis goes

16:09

to hell in the past two or three

16:11

years, even now infiltrating cities

16:13

like Chicago, New York, everywhere. And

16:16

then you have Biden

16:18

finally gets serious about the border a couple months

16:20

ago with the border bill. And

16:23

Trump gives the signal essentially

16:25

that it's not a good bill, even though it

16:27

really, it was a pretty

16:29

decent bill. And certainly in an

16:32

emergency, you want to start stop the

16:34

bleeding. Then Trump signals that

16:37

the bill isn't good enough and Republicans kill

16:39

it, essentially. So I think

16:42

both sides have tried to spin this, right?

16:44

The Democrat spin has been, look,

16:47

the Republicans destroyed that

16:49

bill. They don't even care about immigration. The

16:51

whole thing's their fault. Of course,

16:53

what's wrong with that is the reason it's

16:55

this bad is because Democrats have been

16:57

ignoring the issue fully for

17:00

two, three years. Why do

17:02

you think that is? Does

17:04

anybody have anything to gain by letting migrants

17:06

into the country? Tim Dylan

17:09

says that he thinks that it's cheap

17:11

labor and that they want to bring

17:13

more cheap labor into the country and

17:15

that it's very difficult to

17:17

get people to do certain jobs. That's

17:20

why libertarians, partly like illegal immigration, that

17:22

would be more of a Koch brothers

17:25

policy though. I mean, that's

17:27

why Bernie Sanders called open borders or

17:29

Koch brothers policies because cheap labor. Interesting.

17:32

Yeah. But that wouldn't apply necessarily

17:34

to Biden. Okay.

17:37

So someone like Biden, I

17:39

understand you might argue, okay, are they letting

17:41

people in because those are going to be

17:43

the Democrat voters? Those are

17:45

going to increase the Democrat voters base. I

17:48

don't know. Does Biden care about that? I don't think

17:50

so. Biden's not going to be around in 10 years.

17:52

Well, I don't think Biden's making decisions. You

17:55

don't think he is? No. You think

17:57

it's his circle. Yeah. I think he's so

17:59

far gone. And this is

18:01

what I said when he was running.

18:03

I was saying you're gonna leave it

18:06

up to his cabinet He's not able

18:08

to form listen when you see him

18:10

at debates or at press conferences He's

18:12

at his very best and he's probably

18:15

Medicated they probably juice him up with a

18:17

bunch of different things and get

18:20

him hyped. Let's go Roll

18:22

them out there and then he even

18:24

then he can't form

18:26

sentences. He loses Track

18:29

of what he's talking about. It's that's

18:31

that him out his very best. What

18:33

is he like when he's tired? What is he

18:36

like when he's not primed? Right, you know,

18:38

it's I do not think that he even has

18:41

The interest in doing that I think he wanted

18:43

to be president. He got to be president He

18:45

has all these people around him and just

18:48

even by the way, he talks about things He's

18:50

so out of touch with the

18:52

way he's describing things and talking about

18:55

bills that they pass and talking about

18:57

important issues I just think he's completely

18:59

out of it. And I think it's

19:01

a really it's It's

19:04

very unfair. And if that was my

19:06

father, I would be Terrified I'd

19:08

be sad. I'd be like what are you doing him? You

19:11

know, like he should be relaxing

19:13

somewhere, you know, he's embarrassing

19:15

himself. It's not fair. He's Take

19:18

a person that's in cognitive decline Like

19:21

that and just parade him out there and use

19:24

him as a figurehead It's just crazy and if

19:26

you look at the difference between him now and

19:28

him in 2020 I mean,

19:30

he didn't look great in 2020, but he looked like

19:32

he could handle myself, right? It's

19:35

a huge difference now and just extrapolate

19:38

that three more years. Yeah, right How

19:40

is he gonna be dealing with Putin

19:42

and Iran and Israel hitting in

19:45

three years? He's not and he's not doing it

19:47

now Someone else forming

19:49

the policies, you know that you they have the

19:51

White House press secretary got busted for using his

19:53

Twitter account You saw that. Oh, no, I didn't

19:55

see that she She

19:58

accidentally used her account And she

20:01

tweeted when I was running for president I

20:03

like they deleted it, but everybody caught it

20:05

obviously And obviously there's

20:07

the Kamala liability. Oh, yeah, that's a

20:09

that's a hilarious one the Kamala fans

20:11

are my favorite Are they yeah, I

20:13

got a guy I got a guy.

20:16

I don't want to say his name

20:18

I'm trying to be respectful, but he's

20:20

a comedian that's not a fucking mind.

20:22

He's one of them blue no matter

20:24

who okay You know he's operated Just

20:28

he's got this like cognitive dissonance. It's

20:30

very bizarre But yeah,

20:33

my dad was an econ club with Kamala

20:35

in college really yeah There's a photo of

20:37

them There's only eight kids in the club

20:39

so it's a this tiny photo

20:42

of my dad and Kamala Harris and six other

20:44

people when they were like a 22

20:46

or something at Howard University, what's his

20:48

perspective? He doesn't remember her at all

20:51

interesting unless Vice

20:53

president of the United States. Yeah, she didn't make

20:55

an one heart beat away She didn't make an

20:57

impression a dying man. Yeah at the helm Yeah,

21:00

I mean she could sneak up behind him at any moment and end

21:03

it At any

21:05

moment yeah at any moment It's

21:08

crazy, and it's it's

21:10

so American Really

21:12

is we're just like a goofy

21:14

ass country. Yeah, we're amazing and

21:17

it's it's pretty cool But it's

21:19

also we crawl so far up

21:22

the ass at anybody that wants to

21:24

be in a position of leadership That

21:26

no one who should be in a position of

21:29

leadership wants that and

21:31

most of these people that could be Effective

21:33

in a position of leadership because they've led things

21:36

before whether it's businesses or what

21:38

have you They just don't want anything to

21:40

do with it. It's just a horrible attack

21:42

on your character. They don't play fair. They

21:44

lie They'll get

21:46

people to say things that aren't

21:48

true. They'll they'll concoct stories They'll

21:50

put things out there with the

21:52

aid of the intelligence community like

21:54

the the Russia collusion agenda Like

21:56

that thing when they get all the media

21:58

that's on the left. On board. And

22:01

then they just repeat this mantra over

22:03

and over. Russia Collusion or ah should

22:05

lose Or or a you know And

22:07

then they'll pretend that they didn't say

22:10

that he never won the elections. Rail

22:12

pretend they pretend that they didn't question

22:14

the alleged. They'll pretend that Hillary Clinton

22:17

didn't do multiple speeches where she said

22:19

that on election was stolen It was

22:21

is not a legitimate president. Russia stole

22:24

the election with no evidence yet. But

22:26

when he questions election is a threat

22:28

to democracy right? This is so convenience.

22:31

And there's just we Live in is bizarre

22:33

new cycle where this information is coming at

22:35

you so fast you can forget about what

22:37

the thing you're mad about two days ago.

22:40

That could affect the rest of the country

22:42

for decades, right? And you just onto the

22:44

next. I think that particular in America we.

22:48

Were. Very hard on our politicians and

22:50

that's actually. Did the idea of

22:52

the country from the star is there's no kings

22:54

here, right? right? And you go to other places

22:56

in the world people worship or pretend to worship

22:58

their politicians. You can sort of see why someone

23:01

would want to be in that position when you

23:03

see that that the crowds of people. Same.

23:05

Thing over Hitler speeches and are all

23:07

that stuff for you to see why

23:09

someone would want to have crowds mating

23:11

over them In America. you get some

23:13

admiration, but you. Can it just

23:16

looks like you get your life ruined? Well

23:18

a police half the country's gonna hate you.

23:20

Yes, even a ago president, It's popular like

23:22

Obama. During his administration at least

23:24

half of the country he didn't. Totally.

23:27

and that's a horrible place to being. It's

23:29

a horrible feeling to be that person and

23:32

know that there's always people that think you

23:34

are a Muslim. Plant your morning tenure. Yeah,

23:36

are you know you were a tansu and

23:38

now it's on the news cycle. Have home

23:40

and in every war for wearing a tan

23:42

attempts zoo. I mean it's a nice suit.

23:45

Yeah, what is wrong with the color dance?

23:47

Why does a suit have to be dark

23:49

blue or black or whatever it is that

23:51

everybody thinks it has to be that? So

23:53

bizarre. because he could wear a

23:56

tan shirt somewhere and give a speech

23:58

like of these you know added home

24:00

or something like that and just addresses

24:02

the press and a casual man. That's

24:04

fine. Right. But when you're

24:06

being serious, I want you to put on your

24:08

serious outfit. Your serious outfit can't be tanned. Right.

24:11

People ask me all the time why

24:13

I don't get into politics or people expect me to

24:16

get into politics because- Please don't. They

24:18

see me on the view. Well, thank you. You

24:20

get it. Don't do it. You get it.

24:23

They see me on something like The View and they say, wow,

24:25

I like this guy. He keeps his cool under pressure. He stands

24:27

for what I believe in. Why don't

24:29

you run for office, man? I'm like,

24:31

are you crazy? Are

24:33

you absolutely insane? Why would I do that to myself

24:36

with such a ...

24:40

I even doubt how

24:42

much change you could even have, frankly,

24:44

which is why I ... As much

24:47

as I admire someone like RFK for his charisma

24:49

in the sense that he's the only candidate that

24:51

if he talks for five minutes off the cuff,

24:54

I find it really compelling. I think he's

24:56

very honest. Whether

24:59

you agree with him or disagree with him, I

25:01

think he's very honest and he's also very well

25:03

read in everything that he talks about. There's

25:06

a lot of things that are very

25:09

uncomfortable to discuss that he discusses openly

25:11

and willingly. When

25:14

you look at that man's background, and this is

25:16

a thing that people choose to ignore

25:18

when they want to talk about him as a conspiracy

25:20

theorist. This is the big one. They always bring up

25:22

conspiracy theorists. That

25:24

guy stopped the polluting of

25:27

the Hudson River. I mean, he

25:29

was a very effective environmental attorney

25:31

that was dedicated to making sure

25:33

that corporations couldn't just wantonly

25:36

pollute things because it

25:38

was more profitable for them to not pay

25:40

attention to where their waste goes. He

25:43

held them to task and he's one of

25:45

the primary reasons why the Hudson River's clean. That

25:48

guy. I've heard that. I

25:50

never looked into it, but if true, it's very impressive.

25:53

But beyond that, just in terms of

25:55

charisma and speaking, nobody

25:58

holds a candle to RFK. I think who

26:01

is neither Biden nor Trump, right? If you just say,

26:03

give a 10 minute speech off the cuff, RFK

26:05

is gonna give a way more charismatic, way

26:08

more interesting speech than either of them. Agreed?

26:10

Agreed. So that's

26:14

what I feel when I listen to him. At

26:16

the same time, when I look throughout history, I

26:20

somehow, I have a blanket

26:22

skepticism of how much change

26:25

politicians can actually accomplish, even good ones

26:28

in a system like America's, where

26:30

the president has intentionally very limited

26:32

power over domestic policy. They

26:34

can actually make a lot of change in

26:36

foreign policy because they have kind of unilateral

26:38

decision making ability. But, and

26:41

then secondly, I always

26:43

check myself because I think

26:46

the charismatic politicians are always the ones

26:48

that are able to lead people into

26:51

really dark corners. It's always

26:53

the ones with charisma that are able to

26:56

use that charisma power to

26:59

get people to support things they never ordinarily

27:01

would support. That's the old adage that no

27:03

one who wants to be president should be

27:05

allowed to be president. Right. Right.

27:08

And Hitler had charisma, not from my

27:10

perspective or your perspective, but as

27:12

a historical fact, if we were

27:14

Germans living at that time, we would experience those

27:16

Hitler speeches that look silly to us as

27:19

charisma. Have you seen the Hitler speeches

27:21

with AI translation to English? No. It's

27:24

in subtitles, but oh, but

27:26

they put the voice into English? They changed

27:28

the voice. Oh, wow. Which is a new

27:30

technology that they're actually employing with podcasts. Spotify

27:32

now has the ability to take this podcast

27:34

with you and me, and just for, I

27:37

think it's like 30 seconds of your voice and my

27:39

voice, they can have a

27:42

speak fluent German, Spanish, and French

27:44

right now. And they're

27:46

gonna expand it to a bunch of different

27:48

languages and just put podcasts out in

27:50

different languages for different countries. Yeah, that's awesome.

27:53

Yeah, it's fascinating. So they did

27:55

it with Hitler. You should watch it. We'll play it for you. Can

27:57

we play it or will we get in trouble? Let's.

28:00

Let's find out. Let's find out. Because

28:02

YouTube is... The jump... I can just

28:04

say this. From just

28:07

staying entirely on Spotify to Now We're Everywhere.

28:10

Dealing with YouTube is so bizarre.

28:13

People can claim copyright for

28:16

things that are 100% not theirs. Interesting.

28:18

But if they claim it, then

28:21

they can monetize your show. They take all the money

28:24

from your show. So then you have to remove it

28:26

and then you have to fight it. Right. So

28:29

if you play two seconds of a

28:31

song... Is it two seconds? How many seconds? It's

28:33

like over six or something. Okay. Six

28:36

seconds of a song. They

28:39

claim they can monetize your entire podcast.

28:42

It's fucking bizarre. That's crazy. But

28:44

it's dumb. It's dumb. There's

28:47

things that you should be able to talk about.

28:49

If there's a popular song, you're like, Wet Ass

28:51

Pussy. You're like, look at the moral decline of

28:53

America. Listen to this. I don't cook. I

28:56

don't clean. Wet ass pussy. You

28:59

should be able to play that and just go,

29:01

what the fuck are we doing? This is wild

29:03

and entertaining and fun and a great song. But

29:06

so this is Hitler and this is also AI

29:09

enhanced colorized too, which is interesting.

29:11

But this is... So when

29:13

we would hear Hitler's speech, was it... Was it

29:15

that? Was it that? I was like,

29:17

we should have crushed the enemies and killed the Jews. That's all

29:19

I thought it was. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

29:23

A lot of it is... Yeah.

29:26

Give me the original. Okay. Stop

29:28

right there. Pause, pause. I

29:31

hear that. Hold on. I'm sorry. I

29:33

hear that. I get terrified. Oh yeah.

29:36

Because all of German sounds terrifying. Well,

29:38

it's... Yeah. To the English ear, yeah.

29:40

It's such a... Right. It's

29:42

such an aggressive language, you know? And when you hear Hitler

29:44

yelling it, it's so aggressive. Right. And then when, you know,

29:47

you hear what he's actually saying, you know, he's like, what

29:49

is he saying? I'm like, what is

29:51

he saying? I'm like, what is he saying? I'm like, what is

29:53

he saying? I'm like, what is he saying? I'm like, what is

29:55

he saying? I'm like, what is he saying? You hear what he's

29:57

actually saying. He's like, oh, this is like a regular politics. My

30:03

work? For correctness! Now

30:05

whether you believe that I have been diligent, that

30:08

I have worked, that I have

30:10

advocated for you in these years, that

30:12

I have been decent, I have spent

30:15

my time in service of my people. Now

30:18

cast your vote, if

30:20

yes, then stand up

30:22

for me as I have

30:24

stood up for you. That's

30:26

incredibly creepy. Bizarre, right? Oh

30:29

my God. Very bizarre. Wow.

30:32

Because we have these misconceptions, these preconceived notions,

30:34

because of obviously all the evil things he

30:36

actually wound up doing. Which

30:38

are real. But also just the cultural filter

30:40

of the way

30:43

German sounds to the American ear. It's

30:45

a harsh language. Yes. Well, there's

30:47

many languages like that. We just don't

30:49

have a

30:51

cultural context to put that, especially

30:53

the sounds. No. Have you

30:55

heard German-Arabic? No.

30:59

What's that? Okay. This is Muslims

31:03

speaking with their

31:05

German. So they have a

31:07

German accent. Oh,

31:09

okay. And they're speaking in

31:12

Arabic. Okay. And it's very

31:14

strange, because it's like you're hearing both

31:16

things. Right. And then there's

31:19

also people that are Muslims

31:21

that are speaking in Germany.

31:25

And they're talking

31:27

about Islamic issues in

31:29

German. It's strange, because you're looking at

31:31

this Islamic cleric speaking German. You're like,

31:33

yo, this is wild. Wow. There's

31:36

something about those lines. Japanese is another

31:38

one, when someone is like very aggressive.

31:40

I find Japanese beautiful. It's beautiful. But

31:43

I grew up watching a lot of anime, and

31:45

I think that influences it. Well,

31:47

I was influenced heavily by Japanese

31:50

culture as a kid, obviously with

31:52

martial arts, but also by Miyamoto

31:54

Musashi, Who, when I was a

31:56

young man, like that book, The Book

31:58

of Five Rings, was like a sad

32:01

thing. actually my guidebook for life. What

32:03

does that about it? It's a book

32:05

of strategy by this man. Miyamoto Masashi

32:07

and Miyamoto Massage. He was a Ronin

32:09

who killed sixty men and one on

32:12

one combat and he was like. Arguably

32:14

the most famous East is my whole right

32:16

sleeve his me a modem as as him.

32:20

And. He wrote this book, the Book

32:22

of Five Rings, and it was essentially. Calling.

32:25

For a balance

32:27

life. To. Perfect your

32:29

craft no matter what it is. But

32:32

it was essentially saying that for someone

32:34

to be a great warrior, you also

32:36

have to be a great poet. You

32:38

have to be able to calligraphy, have

32:41

to be able do art you you

32:43

have to have about. You can't just

32:45

be this like angry emotional killing machines

32:48

and you will not see everything. You.

32:50

You you must be balanced And

32:52

this is a guy that speaking

32:54

from intense. Actual Experience:

32:57

sword citing people which is probably the

32:59

most intimate way to kill a man

33:01

and he got so good at it.

33:03

Sometimes you would show with wooden swords

33:05

and kill people with wooden swords and

33:07

cause he just didn't feel like they're

33:09

technique was good enough for him to

33:11

justify using an actual sword. Say he'd

33:13

beat them to death with ores. So.

33:15

They would come at him with a sword

33:18

and he would have like and or from

33:20

a boat. And. He would just fuck

33:22

them up on and or she's is a

33:24

fascinating got back and see how you kind

33:26

of reflect that. I mean you're the you're

33:29

like this a his big guy and you

33:31

do. Mixed. Martial arts but she also

33:33

do yoga and you know you're in and.

33:36

You. pay attention to the world and so

33:38

and that kind of makes sense that that's

33:40

where you come from that yeah that was

33:42

my guide books that when i was a

33:45

young man and i was fighting since i

33:47

was trying to figure out how to control

33:49

my emotions and mack my anxiety and what's

33:51

the most effective way to approach something that's

33:54

absolutely terrifying i talking approach because you have

33:56

to be scared because if you're not scared

33:58

you lose your at You have

34:00

to have an edge like every time that

34:03

I ever competed where I was like over

34:05

confident I fought terribly even if I won.

34:07

I was very very ashamed

34:09

of my performance You have

34:11

to be scared and something that no one wants to be

34:13

no one wants to be scared It's

34:15

an awful feeling before you're competing you

34:18

like why I'm even fucking doing this

34:20

Why am I risking my literal life

34:22

for no money to do

34:24

this thing? That's fucking insane like I'm gonna go

34:26

out there and kick someone in the face And they're

34:28

gonna try to kick me in the face and

34:30

if I get hit I'm going unconscious I'm going to

34:33

the hospital so I Read

34:36

a bunch of psychology books. I read a

34:38

bunch of self-help books. I read a Lot

34:42

of Anthony Robbins stuff. I read a lot of

34:44

different things trying to figure out What's the best

34:46

way to manage the mind? But the

34:48

thing that I really gravitated towards was this one

34:50

book Because of the history of this man and

34:52

the way that he speaks and he has this

34:54

quote that I use all the time And if

34:57

you've heard before I'm sorry, but I'm gonna say

34:59

it again Once

35:01

you know the way broadly you can see

35:03

it in all things and

35:05

this was What I applied

35:07

with I think he applied to many disciplines

35:09

in life But it's understanding

35:11

that to get great

35:14

at something to to really

35:16

understand something It

35:18

requires this intensive Observation

35:21

of what the thing is What

35:24

your flaws are what your strengths are and

35:26

approach it in this very balanced way And

35:28

if you can do that if you could

35:30

really know the way you could

35:32

apply that to everything you do whether it's

35:35

learning how to play guitar or chess or

35:37

anything or Calligraphy

35:39

or writing books whatever it is.

35:42

Yeah, you can you can apply that to all things

35:44

So what you said about being scared it and and

35:47

how that's useful you need to feel that yeah in order

35:50

to perform at the highest Always

35:52

makes me think of the Christopher Nolan Batman where

35:54

he has to the second. the Bane Batman He

35:56

has to take off the the rope in order

35:59

to have the. Renault and to jump

36:01

foreign us get out of the caved.

36:03

Remember that scene A Do not Oh

36:05

yeah to amateur it's a brilliant seen

36:07

in a brilliant message because Been beats

36:10

Batman, puts him at it in at

36:12

the bottom of this deep pit and

36:14

he. He's trying to get out so

36:16

he can go back to Gotham and save everyone

36:18

from the atomic bomb that's gonna go off their

36:21

and he keeps jumping and jumping in. There is

36:23

one jump he has to make that he keeps

36:25

failing and the prisoners have a way of doing

36:27

it. Where. They tie a rope around

36:29

your waist so that when you inevitably fall

36:31

as everyone always does. They've been trying to

36:33

get out this prison for years. Some people

36:36

have been stuck here their whole life, but

36:38

there's a legend of a child that did

36:40

it. A child. No.

36:42

One. No one's been able to figure out how they

36:44

replicated. so they try with a rope all the time.

36:47

And. Then one of the elder statesmen of the

36:49

scene says what I've heard the way that the

36:51

child did it is that they. Didn't.

36:53

Use the rope and you have to

36:55

fear death. In order for your

36:57

body to. Give you

37:00

the necessary seol and material to to

37:02

to land a job It is a

37:04

reason why you entered you need to

37:06

be shared his as there's a reason

37:08

in own custom on of whose Mike

37:10

Tyson's trainer famously said that fears like

37:12

a fire eating cook food with it

37:15

or as you let it run moto

37:17

burn your house down near. Yeah.

37:20

And I say not to bring it back

37:22

to the view. but I do sometimes feel

37:24

that about live television. I feel that. When.

37:27

I know it's live. And I

37:29

know I'm not getting a second chance. Can

37:31

I'm not getting I Can. You cut that

37:33

out and millions of people are going to

37:35

see this. My. Brain goes into

37:38

a different mode of. Of

37:40

alive Ness knowing what the stakes

37:42

are. Yeah, and I think it

37:44

probably causes me to perform better

37:46

than normal. Yeah, let's stand up

37:49

comedy too, I imagine. Yeah, I.

37:51

Imagine? Yeah, it's There's a lot of things

37:53

like that. Yeah, you have to be scared.

37:55

Yeah, I get nervous every time I go

37:58

onstage with comedy Thriller? Yeah, The

38:00

have to have done it. When I don't get nervous,

38:02

I don't do as well. I. Need to

38:04

get nervous. I get myself nerves or pace and

38:06

move around. Yeah rats. I go over my notes.

38:08

I think a bag of wrap my brain up.

38:11

I think after I think you have to with

38:13

anything that's very difficult to do. I.

38:15

Don't think. I mean I think maybe

38:17

there's some people that are just on

38:19

the certain spectrum of consciousness that there

38:21

are able to just like goes. Then.

38:24

An. Egg and go into a saying.

38:26

And maybe there's different things that don't

38:28

get you scared. That maybe being scared

38:30

would be detrimental to those things because

38:33

you'd make quicker judgments instead of measured

38:35

and calculate. Because when you the thing

38:37

about being scared, it's generally things that

38:39

are operating in a time constraints. I

38:42

have this time constraint that's happening. That.

38:44

Also gives you a certain monoxide. It is

38:46

a beginning and an end of every round

38:48

for instance enough and you know a each

38:50

round is in kickboxing. When I was doing

38:53

is three minutes and and I made finance

38:55

as we have this time constraints you have

38:57

that you have how many rounds you're going

38:59

to have to do that's in the back.

39:01

The had if all these things to keep

39:03

you from beings and is all the things

39:05

that like whoop and the live aspect of

39:07

it and everyone's watching. That's another thing. that's

39:09

another element. What about archery and shooting? Those

39:12

are probably the opposite right? Well arteries, bow

39:14

hunting, Is very much that. Beaumont

39:16

in the sense you want to

39:18

be yeah, anxious, a little bit. Yeah,

39:21

you're going to be no matter what

39:23

you will, you will be anxious. But

39:25

you must be able to perform at

39:28

your best and handle that anxiety and

39:30

is a bunch of different methods that

39:32

people use to avoid open loop thought

39:35

processes. Soon, open loop through a process

39:37

is like swing a bat. You really

39:39

can't stop the bat. Once you're

39:41

swing it, you're swinging with all your

39:44

my innocence is open loop right? A

39:46

closed. loop process is something where you're in

39:48

control of it every step of the was

39:50

like for instance me opening up this thing

39:52

i can stop right there i don't just

39:54

go on earth i can't as you know

39:57

it's it's it's not like a thing that

39:59

i can control You can control it

40:01

and so when you're in a Shooting

40:04

situation with it like with archery

40:06

you have to think entirely about

40:08

the process of shooting You

40:11

can't just go now because you'll be

40:13

filled with anxiety you move your arm.

40:15

You'll twitch There's a lot you have

40:17

to be able to stay rock steady

40:20

with something That's not very steady the

40:22

beautiful thing about archery is the perfection

40:24

of doing something. That's almost impossible to

40:26

perfect So when you could have these

40:29

brief moments where that arrow

40:31

does launch and goes right into that target

40:33

right where the X is This

40:36

immense sense of elation accomplishment, but

40:38

now when you're dealing with an

40:40

animal Then you have

40:42

all these other consequences like you don't want to wound the

40:44

animal you want to be able to hit it and kill

40:46

It very quickly with one shot and you have to practice

40:49

Thousands and thousands of arrows and then

40:51

there's this one moment It's

40:54

not like fighting where you have multiple opportunities to

40:56

hit a guy you can move you can step

40:58

to the side you get This is the one

41:00

moment that the fight has actually happened But there's

41:02

a lot of moments in the fight when you

41:04

release that arrow that is one moment So

41:06

you might have worked 11 months

41:08

three weeks and six days For

41:12

this one moment and you've been

41:14

planning this elk hunt for the whole year

41:16

You've gotten in shape for you practice all

41:18

these arrows But when that elk

41:20

steps out from between those trees at

41:22

60 yards and you're at

41:24

full draw You have to center that

41:26

pin right where its vitals are and

41:28

you have to release a perfect arrow

41:32

Yeah, I'm very very hard to do. I've only

41:34

gone shooting. I think twice or

41:36

maybe three times and Just

41:38

that moment right before Yes,

41:41

your body flinches. Yeah in this way. And

41:44

so how does one get past

41:46

that you have to train? Training

41:48

is very important. You have to train with purpose

41:50

like my friend Tim Kennedy when he shoots on

41:53

a range He puts dummy rounds in

41:55

his gun. So he'll have like 10 Rounds

41:58

that are real and then one day dummy round and then

42:00

six rounds that are real and he never knows where the dummy

42:02

round is. What's the point of

42:05

that? So when you're squeezing the trigger,

42:07

you want to have like a completely

42:09

flat squeezing of the trigger. You

42:11

don't want to do this. You don't want to yank in anticipation

42:13

of the recoil. And that's part of the problem

42:15

with guns. You flinch in anticipation

42:17

of the recoil. And when

42:20

that bullet goes out of that gun,

42:23

that flinch left or right over the course

42:25

of a hundred yards could be a foot,

42:27

two feet off the mark. Who knows? Depending

42:29

on how much you flinch. And

42:32

so that is a practice that some

42:34

people employ to learn to be able

42:36

to stay so steady no matter what

42:39

where you're never anticipating the recoil. All

42:41

you're thinking about is the process of squeezing off.

42:43

So there's no recoil with a dummy round? Exactly.

42:45

It doesn't go off. So you can see the

42:47

evidence of your own. Exactly. You pull

42:50

the trigger but nothing happens because there's no real round. It's

42:52

just a rubber or whatever the fuck it

42:54

is. I don't know if this is Hollywood but I saw

42:56

the movie The Killer, David Fincher's latest movie.

42:58

And I think he had some kind of heart

43:00

rate monitor where he wouldn't shoot until his heart rate

43:03

was below 60 or something like that. I

43:05

don't know to what extent that's Hollywood or actually

43:08

important. It's important. Yeah. And

43:11

the best snipers can most certainly

43:13

control their heart rate. Yeah. There's

43:16

strategies. You learn breathing strategies to control your

43:18

heart rate. And

43:21

there's also strategies

43:23

of mental management,

43:26

of not allowing this. There's this

43:28

tornado of anxiety that can come

43:30

on and you have to see

43:33

the winds blowing and go,

43:36

you have to calm it down. You can't get

43:38

caught up in it in your mind. And

43:41

I've seen people do it in many

43:43

different things in life. And

43:46

you can apply it to many

43:48

different things. It's this overwhelming fear

43:50

of fucking up. Instead

43:52

of thinking about what you're actually doing, you're thinking

43:54

about the possibility of fucking up, which leads you

43:56

to fuck up because that's what you're concentrating on.

43:59

Right. tool if

44:01

you think you're gonna miss a shot you most

44:03

certainly miss that shot almost always you might get

44:05

lucky and make it just like I thought I

44:07

was gonna miss but in your head you're like

44:09

I hope I don't miss hope I don't miss

44:11

you're gonna miss but if you

44:13

just only concentrate on the process you

44:15

can execute even under pressure you can

44:17

execute in a perfect line yeah and

44:19

it's it's a mental management

44:21

thing and the only people that know how

44:24

to do that are people that have actually

44:26

done difficult things under pressure and

44:28

when you do difficult things under pressure you realize

44:31

like wow there's so many factors that

44:33

you can probably mitigate

44:35

in some way through a strategy of

44:38

control of meditation of thought of understanding

44:40

what these thoughts are when they when they start

44:42

to occur yeah I think a lot

44:45

of anxiety management is deeply focusing

44:47

on the task at hand right

44:49

because if you're you know it's not

44:51

necessarily that the anxiety comes up and

44:54

you're amazing at swatting it down it

44:57

could be that you are so deeply focused

44:59

on the thing itself that there's no room

45:01

for anxiety and that's very lucky

45:03

if you have that level of focus

45:05

and attention on whatever it is that you're

45:07

passionate about it's like you're so upset

45:10

like someone like Michael Jordan or Kobe

45:12

Bryant the way you hear

45:14

them talking about winning you

45:16

can understand why they didn't feel any anxiety when

45:18

the buzzer beater is coming up there's

45:20

two seconds they have to make the shot because they're

45:23

so obsessed with winning that there's no

45:25

room for anxiety right right so it's

45:27

like it's life or death to them

45:29

yeah and there's no room for anxiety

45:31

in those situations yeah you have

45:33

to be I mean to perform at that

45:35

level too you have to be really insane

45:38

you know I would say that greatness and

45:41

that like

45:44

real brilliance comes out

45:46

of almost like a mental illness it

45:49

really almost does because in order to be just

45:51

so much better at all the other high performers

45:54

because David Goggins has the best quote he

45:56

says you want to

45:58

be uncommon amongst uncommon People

46:05

That's how he's uncommon among uncommon people

46:07

he's a fucking complete psycho totally Yeah,

46:09

but that is how you become David

46:11

Goggins You don't become David Goggins But

46:13

this mild-mannered person who contemplates and you

46:16

know sits with his coffee and stares

46:18

out the window and watches the birds

46:21

And that's not that's not that's not how you get

46:23

the job done no not at all You know

46:25

how you become Michael Jordan either you know you

46:27

have to be of that heard that if you

46:29

beat Michael Jordan at pool You wouldn't talk to

46:31

you for weeks. Yeah, that's that's a

46:33

maladjusted person in any other scenario that's

46:36

a guy you can't really be friends with

46:38

because but Combine that with

46:40

enormous natural talent and work ethic. Yeah

46:42

a little bit of good luck. That's

46:45

Michael Jordan I mean the top chess is the

46:47

one that I follow that's my hobby and The

46:51

top chess players are absolute maniacs

46:53

maniacs these like when they they

46:55

they actually When you try to

46:57

talk to them about their mistakes you've had her car

46:59

on have you know I have no You don't know

47:01

I thought that I would though so her car is

47:03

best player in America Absolute

47:06

legend you know if Magnus

47:08

Carlsen died in his crib her

47:10

car It's very possible her car

47:12

would be world champ for a very long time Wow

47:15

But what it would separate him from Magnus Carlson? just

47:19

a Magnus ethnic

47:21

her car once put it a Magnus

47:24

is a little bit better than Hikaru at everything

47:27

Mmm a little bit better at openings a

47:29

little bit better at calculation a little bit

47:31

better at end games You put it

47:33

all together, and he's he's just the goat He

47:36

can't be beat what was your the

47:38

point where he got so bored He got so

47:40

bored of winning the world championship

47:42

that he said I don't want to do it

47:44

anymore Wow Yeah, he said so

47:46

he's technically no longer world champion because he's

47:48

so bored of winning And

47:51

it's actually understandable I don't even think

47:53

anyone's mad at him because these

47:55

world championship chess massive chess matches

47:57

14 games go

48:00

to six hours a game. They can actually

48:02

go over six hours a game. Brutal,

48:04

absolutely brutal. Like if you thought taking

48:06

the SAT and trying really hard made

48:08

you mentally exhausted, it's nothing compared to

48:10

how these guys feel after a six

48:12

hour chess game. And doing that

48:14

14 days in a row, spending six months prior

48:17

to that, working with chess engines

48:19

to find one new idea in an opening,

48:21

50 moves in, it's

48:24

absolutely grueling. And he does it every time and

48:26

he wins every time, but he says, this is

48:28

not fun for me anymore. So I'm going to

48:30

play all the other chess

48:32

tournaments that you just kind of show up and

48:35

do your best. And he crushes most of those

48:37

as well. But I'm not doing this

48:39

grueling. I can't live my life like this anymore. That's

48:42

interesting because that is John Jones too.

48:45

John Jones, when he was dominating the light heavyweight division,

48:47

he got to a point where the way analysts would

48:49

describe it is that he was playing with his food.

48:52

And that he wasn't afraid of losing

48:54

to these guys. And he barely trained

48:57

for some of them. Like he had

48:59

a famous fight

49:01

with Alexander Gustafson and it was

49:03

the first fight where John had never been taken down

49:05

and he got pushed deep into the rounds. And John

49:07

rallied in the fourth and fifth rounds and won the

49:09

fight. And it was a crazy fight. They

49:12

had a rematch and John prepared and

49:14

just dominated him and annihilated him. Same

49:16

guy. I mean, just ran right through

49:18

him. The guy was still in his

49:20

prime. John was still in

49:22

his prime. There was not like a bunch of

49:24

things that had happened that deteriorated him. Nope. It

49:27

was a couple of years later and John ran

49:30

through him. And that's the real John Jones.

49:32

It's just the John Jones that was fighting

49:34

all these other guys. He wasn't challenged. He

49:36

was, he's the goat and he knew he

49:38

was the goat. And so he didn't, I

49:41

talked to his coaches, he literally didn't

49:43

train for the Gustafson fight. But yet

49:45

still pulled it off in the fourth

49:47

and fifth rounds just out of sheer

49:50

greatness and toughness and grit and experience.

49:52

Pulled it off and it wasn't in

49:54

condition. It wasn't prepared but still good

49:56

enough to beat The very best

49:58

challenger he ever faced. The top as

50:00

fi of his career in the last round, the

50:02

up. and the thing with these kind of guys.

50:05

I don't know about fighting probably the same but

50:07

with just guys you try to bring up a

50:09

mistake. A famous mistake that they made. And.

50:12

It's It's almost like you're talking about a family

50:14

member who died tried to write a It means

50:16

that much to them that they made a mistake

50:19

twelve years ago on move twenty four A some

50:21

games that through the match it's and that that's

50:23

how hard discuss take it which is again. In

50:26

in your me at that's just a maladjusted

50:28

guy that's like a guy with a problem

50:30

any to go to therapy in a top

50:33

performer. That's what makes him a top performer

50:35

and separates him from the otherwise very good

50:37

professional. One hundred percent there's a guy who's

50:39

were arguably the greatest pool player of all

50:42

time at least one of the baseball player

50:44

of all time since url Strickland his marriage

50:46

and guys one the Us Open five times

50:48

we wanted to guys when the Us open

50:50

five times are gunning seen then boning kusa

50:53

another to player but url. Like

50:55

he. Would play with

50:57

this insane intensity. Easy missed

51:00

a ball. He was like

51:02

confuse. I see how is

51:04

it possible that I can

51:06

miss? It was a million

51:08

dollar challenge. Now this is

51:10

statistically. So.

51:13

Impossible to do. Under.

51:15

Intense competition did. They were willing to

51:17

gamble and get an insurance policy. They

51:20

would give someone a million dollars if

51:22

they could run ten racks in a

51:24

row of nine ball. Know what the

51:27

way nine ball works is you have

51:29

nine balls and you you you shape

51:31

them were the bottom balls are missing

51:33

was which makes if teams the full

51:36

racks right? So it's a psych triangle

51:38

sort of a rack and then you.

51:41

Break. The balls in the one ball

51:43

is in the front and the nine

51:45

balls in the center nother ball scatter

51:47

randomly and you have to run them

51:49

in order. So. Every oh

51:51

wow Go rak! You have to have

51:54

a shot on the one or the

51:56

lowest number ball. and then you

51:58

have to have balls and are clustered together Or

52:00

you have to figure out how to break up those

52:02

clusters and still get a shot you have to you

52:04

have to break it Strategically you

52:06

kind of can but back then they didn't

52:09

Guys are much better now because there's a

52:12

thing called the magic rack and what the

52:14

magic rack is It's a clear piece of

52:16

plastic that the ball set in where the

52:18

balls are always touching always in the exact

52:20

same spots because they're literally sitting in a

52:23

pattern and so then these guys are breaking

52:25

the balls more Softly which causes they do

52:27

what's called a cut break which causes the

52:29

one ball to go drift into the side

52:32

pocket and The best guys can do

52:34

it like nine out of ten times and then the

52:36

two ball bounces up table and they know

52:38

exactly where all The balls are gonna be

52:40

and you see similar patterns over and over

52:42

again That's funny what Earl Strickland was doing

52:44

was smashing the balls and they'd scatter around

52:46

and he ran 10

52:48

racks in a row for a million dollars and

52:50

he did it and he did it But

52:53

it was everyone's like it's never been done

52:55

in a tournament before the first tournament where

52:57

they get this insurance policy Earl does it

52:59

Not only did he run 10 though? It was

53:01

a race to 11 He broke and

53:03

ran the 11th too and he made

53:05

a combination on the nine for the

53:07

million dollars, which is just fucking insane

53:09

And not a short combination either like

53:11

a distance from the pocket. Yeah So

53:14

to be that guy you

53:17

have to be out of your fucking mind No

53:19

other way you have to be completely

53:21

obsessed with the game. Yeah to be

53:23

completely obsessed with all the details Yeah,

53:26

he does commentary on pool matches It's fascinating

53:28

to listen him to commentary because he talks

53:30

about different English You got to use with

53:32

this shot and different different things You have

53:35

to avoid and nine times out of ten The

53:37

player does something different than he would have

53:39

done and you see him get fucked like

53:41

yep That was I was talking about. Yeah,

53:43

just he sees it coming. He's sees the

53:45

whole Table in a different

53:48

way than a person who's a novice sees the

53:50

table only things I've ever been

53:52

that obsessed with I think In my life

53:54

are our music I'm

53:57

a trombone player. Oh, no, that was actually my career

53:59

before I started of writing. I still am actually a

54:01

professional trombone player. You talk like a jazz guy. Yeah,

54:03

yeah, yeah. Well, I am a jazz guy. Joe,

54:06

I've had a... My life path

54:08

is that I graduated high school. I

54:10

was considered one of the

54:12

top professional jazz trombonists in the country,

54:15

went to Juilliard, which is the most selective

54:18

school for that. And

54:20

that was my whole career. Like

54:22

that was... I had... This whole other

54:24

career I've had was a

54:26

pivot from all of that. How did it

54:29

start? Basically, so I was at

54:31

Juilliard, as a freshman at Juilliard, in

54:35

New York City, gigging as a jazz trombone

54:37

player. And my mom

54:39

died when I was 18 of cancer.

54:44

And it just shattered everything for me, sent

54:46

me down into grief and depression.

54:51

And I had always been interested in philosophy and writing as

54:53

well, kind of as a side thing. And I was always

54:56

a very good student in school, but

54:58

my passion was music. But something about

55:00

the experience of my mom dying led

55:03

me to reflect on what I wanted out of

55:05

life. And I dropped

55:07

out at Juilliard and applied to

55:09

Columbia. And so I realized I

55:11

could still do music. Nobody learns music

55:13

in school. So

55:16

being in New York City, I could still play

55:18

as much music as I wanted to, but

55:21

I could also get a liberal arts degree and feed

55:23

that side of myself. And it was...

55:25

Had my mom not died, I probably just would have

55:27

stayed at Juilliard. Might've had a whole different life. Well,

55:29

that's fascinating. Is this you? Yeah. Yeah,

55:37

it's me with a big afro. That's amazing. When

55:39

I was eight years old, I lived in San

55:43

Francisco and our teacher took us to

55:45

see Dizzy Gillespie. Oh yeah. Amazing. It

55:47

was wild. And for folks who don't

55:50

know, Dizzy Gillespie, his cheeks puff out

55:52

like a frog, which is... I mean,

55:55

you tell me, that's not how the teacher had to do

55:57

it. Absolutely not. And what he was able to do with

55:59

his cheeks was... I guess

56:01

just years and years of stretching his skin

56:03

because he had done it for so long.

56:05

Oh, yeah Oh, yeah, like look at that.

56:07

That's a full pressure extension of the cheeks

56:09

No trumpet player would teach you to play

56:11

like that but he was one of

56:13

the greats of early jazz

56:15

trumpet playing and he made it work and I

56:18

don't know that you know, I've never heard that he had

56:20

any health issues from playing

56:22

that way You know a

56:24

lot of trumpet players they get older and you know,

56:26

Freddie Hubbard who's one of the greatest jazz trumpet players

56:29

Famously had a growth on his lip that

56:31

kind of inhibited him in his last decade

56:33

from the pressure of the yeah Yeah, from

56:35

the from pressing it against his lips and

56:37

he had a growth I

56:40

don't know if his cancerous or not, but it

56:42

really oh wow, so she's become so irritated that

56:44

a growth. Oh, yeah Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah,

56:47

but yeah, that's not healthy, but it worked for dizzy

56:51

That's the thing all the rules can be broken if you're good

56:54

enough. Yeah, right. Yeah all the

56:56

rules I mean and also he just

56:58

figured out his way to do it. Mm-hmm You know,

57:00

he just figured out a way to do it. That's

57:02

like not a way that you would ever teach Yeah,

57:04

there's a lot of that though. There's slide

57:07

Hampton one of the great jazz trombone players

57:09

of all time played left-handed which

57:12

He's the only person I've ever heard of Great

57:15

or or or not who plays left-handed in

57:17

other words, the slide arm is always the

57:19

right arm But somebody gave it to him

57:22

wrong and that's how

57:24

he played it and I've heard I've heard he plays it upside down

57:26

He plays it left side, right? In

57:29

other words, every trombone player is crafted. Sorry

57:31

every trombone is meant to be played with

57:34

the right hand but somebody set it up must have set

57:36

it up wrong when they gave it to him and I've

57:38

heard stories of So

57:41

even left-handed people would do it though. Oh

57:43

hundred percent of left-handed trombone players play

57:45

with their right hand a hundred percent. Yeah

57:49

But I've heard and slide

57:51

is one of the greats There's a actually a great

57:53

video of him playing at Dizzy Gillespie's birthday party, which

57:55

is a famous video but

57:58

he I've

58:00

heard I heard of this with guitar players where

58:03

somebody gave it Yeah, it

58:05

was I didn't know that I didn't realize that he played

58:07

it left-handed Yeah, he played it

58:09

like how did this way Jamie, you

58:11

know right arm on the neck Taking

58:15

a cargo ban. I think he played it upside down. Maybe

58:18

Right didn't he something like that because you'd have to

58:20

restring the guitar Yeah, you'd have always went the low

58:22

E string to be the top

58:24

I guess closest to you right and then some people

58:26

wouldn't restring it because they weren't told to or however

58:28

Yeah, they just might play the other way. What was

58:31

Hendrix's deal? I think he

58:33

was just lefty. I Feel

58:35

like he was playing a right-handed guitar though. I Feel

58:39

like you played a right hand against our lefties

58:41

Hendrix also plays guitar upside down. Yeah Why

58:45

he played it upside down. Mmm Well,

58:49

he also self-taught which is

58:51

to me the most fascinating couldn't be on a left-handed

58:53

guitar which they probably did make as many back Yeah,

58:55

they probably didn't so he took out any money You

58:57

think he took a normal guitar and put it to

58:59

the right just flipped around so the so the so

59:01

the low string was High in the high string. Yeah,

59:03

and then he so he had all his own fingerings

59:06

were I mean his sound

59:08

was so Different than anyone

59:10

before him. Yeah, there's there's leaps

59:12

in music, but the leaps that

59:15

Hendrix took They're so different than

59:17

everybody else like you really

59:19

it's so hard because I mean I listened

59:22

to his music today Constantly and I love it,

59:24

but I don't live in 1967 It's

59:27

not it's a different world and I feel

59:29

like if you were alive then and you

59:32

heard Voodoo child He'd

59:34

be like what? Oh, yeah for sure fuck

59:36

for sure standing next to a mountain I

59:38

chop it down with the edge of my

59:41

hand and then you hear that music and

59:43

you're like oh my and by the way

59:45

Not a great singing voice and nobody gave

59:47

a fuck nobody gave a fuck about a

59:49

singing voice Yeah, it was

59:51

his music was so powerful

59:54

This sound I wish we could play it

59:57

right now that just the beginning of Voodoo

59:59

child that riff, you

1:00:01

have to understand there's nothing like that

1:00:04

in music before him. There's

1:00:06

a lot of that now. Yeah,

1:00:08

well because of it. Because of it, like Peter

1:00:10

Avon. And that's what happened, is that you can

1:00:12

never really go back with the ears of those

1:00:14

people and hear it as they heard it, because

1:00:16

now you've taken for granted that this way of

1:00:19

playing has seeped into the culture. Exactly. This

1:00:21

is what I always tell people that disparage Lenny Bruce. They go,

1:00:23

oh, wasn't that funny? Here, give me some of that. Dude, I

1:00:54

could run over a fucking mountain if I hear

1:00:56

that. That's still pretty fucking awesome. Oh, it's amazing.

1:00:59

I could run over a fucking mountain with

1:01:01

that in my ears. That's

1:01:03

a drug. That song is a drug.

1:01:05

That song has like a physical power

1:01:08

it imparts on you. I

1:01:10

get goosebumps just hearing it. But

1:01:13

that guy, we have to understand,

1:01:15

there was nothing like that. There

1:01:18

was nothing like that. You had

1:01:20

fucking love, love me do. You

1:01:22

had Buddy Holly and shit, and

1:01:24

you had great music, but you

1:01:26

didn't have anybody who played guitar

1:01:29

like that. And

1:01:31

this guy was blowing away. People

1:01:33

like Eric Clapton famously saw him and was

1:01:35

like, what am I doing? It's

1:01:38

Eric Clapton with the greatest guitarist of all time. He's like,

1:01:40

oh my God, I fucking suck. I

1:01:42

fucking suck. This guy's changing

1:01:44

everything. He's just a different thing. A

1:01:47

guy who comes along who's so beyond

1:01:50

what's being currently expressed that

1:01:52

everybody has to move

1:01:55

towards him. Every

1:01:57

Monday night I play trombone.

1:02:00

at the Comedy Cellar, we have a band at

1:02:02

the Olive Tree Cafe, the restaurant. We play

1:02:05

on Monday nights and we got two guitar

1:02:07

players. One of them is this

1:02:09

guy Nick Cassarino that's just absolutely impossible

1:02:12

to describe, just absolute killer.

1:02:16

They're all great singers, Nick

1:02:19

and Colin and Mike and me and my

1:02:21

friend Dan are the horn section basically. We

1:02:23

play like 9 to midnight every

1:02:25

week. We have such a good time there and

1:02:28

the comics are always coming in, hanging out. We

1:02:30

play every genre,

1:02:33

truly multi-genre and it's just an amazing experience. Wow,

1:02:36

that's awesome man. I'm glad you still enjoy that

1:02:38

too. Yeah. Then now it's like a pure thing,

1:02:40

right? You just do it just for the pure

1:02:42

art of it. That's right and that was really

1:02:44

what I realized when I was 18, taking every

1:02:46

jazz trombone

1:02:48

gig that came my way and paid

1:02:51

me $50 and a slice of pizza. I was

1:02:53

like, this is my passion life.

1:02:55

I love this but this is going to

1:02:57

drive me into insanity if I

1:02:59

have to take every single gig my whole life

1:03:02

and eke out an existence. Yeah.

1:03:04

So maybe I should get a degree and just

1:03:07

see where shit goes.

1:03:09

That's how a lot of comics feel in the

1:03:11

beginning of their career as well. Yeah. The comedy

1:03:13

thing is very hard in the

1:03:15

beginning. It's a real gauntlet that you have

1:03:18

to traverse. For sure. You have to go through a

1:03:20

lot of shit in order to become an- I did

1:03:22

a couple open mics. Did you? I've always loved comedy

1:03:25

and I had some friends in it so they're like,

1:03:27

oh, I'll go do it. I did two or three

1:03:29

open mics, had a good time. Didn't bomb, didn't do

1:03:31

great, did okay. Right. And then- The

1:03:33

bug didn't bite you. The bug didn't bite me. That's

1:03:36

exactly right. And the thing is I knew what the

1:03:38

bug meant because I have it for music. And

1:03:41

so I knew what it's like to be like,

1:03:43

I suck at this but I love it so

1:03:45

much that I'm going to keep doing it until

1:03:47

I don't suck. Yeah. Because with trombone and trumpet, there's

1:03:49

no such thing as being good when you start. Right.

1:03:52

There's some people that the first time they sing

1:03:54

in church, everyone is like, this kid can sing.

1:03:56

Right, right. There's no such thing as that for

1:03:58

trombone. Trumpet for brass

1:04:01

instruments everyone eats shit the first time

1:04:03

they play and so if you

1:04:05

just love it so much that you're okay And

1:04:07

you have a family that's forgiving enough to hear

1:04:09

you be terrible, which I'd like luckily did That's

1:04:12

how you get good at those things yeah, and

1:04:14

I didn't have that for comedy even though I

1:04:16

love comedy as a consumer well I love music

1:04:18

as a consumer, and I don't have that for

1:04:21

music yeah, but I worry I would Gary

1:04:23

Clark was in here, and he gave me his guitar And he

1:04:25

forced me to do an E chord so he put my fingers

1:04:27

in the right place pretty good right It

1:04:30

does feel good. I started getting scared.

1:04:32

Yeah, I started to take me over.

1:04:35

Yeah, I'm worried I'm legit so

1:04:37

I won't play golf. There's a lot of things I

1:04:39

won't do because I get you think you're gonna get

1:04:41

into golf too much. Oh yeah I'm terrified all my

1:04:43

friends like Jamie and Tony and

1:04:45

Ron white they're obsessed I've so many friends

1:04:47

my friends who play golf are all obsessed

1:04:49

with golf. What is it? That's so? addicting

1:04:52

about golf in particular I

1:04:57

Many times, but it's like the

1:04:59

same thing you were saying earlier with with pool

1:05:02

Like the same description just the earth right

1:05:04

with archery. I meant yeah with archery the

1:05:07

the the consequences obviously are less

1:05:10

You're not gonna miss and hurt something Well, there's

1:05:12

your person target archery though is very intensive to

1:05:15

but when you were describing when it all goes

1:05:17

right mm-hmm Which is so rare I heard something

1:05:19

similar Jackson said recently were like in golf you

1:05:21

shoot I don't know if you're bad. It's a

1:05:23

hundred shots around if you're really good 75 Most

1:05:28

of those still though you don't

1:05:30

ever really do the intention of what you're trying

1:05:32

to do Which is make going the whole right

1:05:34

from where you are or like right where you're

1:05:36

aiming or anything So it's like a bunch of

1:05:38

mistakes, and then it's like how good are you

1:05:40

at overcoming those mistakes? clearing your

1:05:42

head every time fighting against

1:05:45

nature Also having fun with

1:05:47

your friends being out of nature getting away from everything

1:05:49

for four or five hours Having a

1:05:51

couple beers clearing your head Clearing

1:05:53

your head cuz you can't think of all a bunch of

1:05:55

other stuff or it will ruin Your

1:05:58

whole day because you can't have fun out there Do

1:06:00

you remember that Kevin Costner movie where

1:06:02

he plays this badass pitcher? It

1:06:06

might have been a league of her own no

1:06:08

that there's another movie Well,

1:06:11

you know so he has this thing where everybody's

1:06:14

like he wasn't retired He was pitching in the

1:06:16

movie for the love of the game for love

1:06:18

game That's it. And so he has this moment

1:06:20

like when he's on the mound where

1:06:22

he goes Clear the mechanism

1:06:25

and everything just Fades

1:06:28

out and he just looks at

1:06:30

the strike zone and The

1:06:32

you don't hear the crowd anymore. It's a really

1:06:34

cool scene here. We'll play the scene, but we

1:06:36

won't do it for everybody else I

1:07:15

Knife You

1:07:32

Nice yeah, my friend Colton uses that when he

1:07:34

goes bow hunting. Mm-hmm. He says clear the mechanism

1:07:36

It feels like to put on bozy head. Yeah

1:07:40

Just just force your mind in

1:07:43

this state of hyper focus. Mm-hmm

1:07:46

I wanted to ask you this. What

1:07:48

was your take on Magnus Carlson and

1:07:50

that young man who apparently?

1:07:53

Has yes, hon's Neiman.

1:07:56

Yeah, so what a character playing

1:07:58

the story for people So basically

1:08:00

what happened is there's this

1:08:02

grandmaster named Hans Niemann, who's a young guy,

1:08:05

probably early 20s. Magnus

1:08:09

is probably more like 31 or so like

1:08:11

now. And

1:08:15

what happened is Hans Niemann, he

1:08:18

beat Magnus Carlsen at a tournament in

1:08:21

a game, not in a match

1:08:24

necessarily. You might need to check that,

1:08:26

but he beat him in the first game of

1:08:28

the tournament, which happens, right? It's

1:08:30

kind of like how the best tennis player in the world

1:08:32

can lose a game to a lesser player, but probably isn't

1:08:34

going to lose the match. That happens

1:08:37

pretty frequently in chess, not uncommon. But

1:08:40

it is the most uncommon with Magnus.

1:08:43

Magnus suspected Hans of cheating. Why

1:08:45

did he suspect Hans of cheating? Magnus is not the

1:08:48

type to assume someone is cheating just

1:08:50

because he lost a game. He's never done that in his entire

1:08:52

career. Reason he did it

1:08:55

in the case of Hans is because there

1:08:57

had long been rumors circulating in the chess

1:08:59

world that Hans Niemann was a cheater.

1:09:02

Now there's ways you can cheat in chess

1:09:04

in an over-the-board game if we're playing with a

1:09:06

physical set in front of us. The

1:09:09

one way people do it is they'll have

1:09:11

a friend generally that is looking at the

1:09:14

game either here or out in the hall,

1:09:17

running it through an engine and giving you

1:09:19

a little signal like cheating like

1:09:21

a baseball coach would. There

1:09:24

are also rumors that in

1:09:26

principle it's possible to cheat with a

1:09:28

device. I think that's happened

1:09:30

in some way that someone can transmit to

1:09:33

you, be looking at the game and

1:09:35

transmit you a signal, here's the right move with a

1:09:37

certain number of buzzes if I have a buzzer in

1:09:39

my pocket. In

1:09:41

principle it's possible to have a buzzer in the orifices

1:09:45

of your body, in your butt essentially.

1:09:47

This is part of why it went viral

1:09:50

is because there was a theory that they

1:09:52

have pretty strict security at these places so

1:09:54

where would he have put the device? They're

1:09:57

not going to do an anal cavity check. part

1:10:00

of the reason people are talking about it so much

1:10:02

because that's just hilarious to contemplate. But

1:10:04

the real situation of it was that

1:10:07

Magnus made some strong implied comments

1:10:09

that Hans had cheated in the

1:10:11

game, then everyone start looking at

1:10:13

the Hans and the rumors that had

1:10:16

long existed in the chess world about

1:10:18

this guy became public and there were

1:10:20

serious competing investigations of how

1:10:22

is it that this guy rose

1:10:24

so quickly, for example. It's very

1:10:26

uncommon in the chess world for

1:10:28

someone to raise in rating that

1:10:31

quickly in the professional world, right? There's a

1:10:33

normal rate at which people get better and

1:10:36

there's a kind of impossible rate at which

1:10:38

people got better and people

1:10:40

debated. He had defenders, he had attackers,

1:10:42

both of them had some good points

1:10:45

about his rise in over-the-board

1:10:48

play. Then there's the

1:10:50

online cheating which is a totally different story

1:10:52

because chess.com has one of the really

1:10:55

the state-of-the-art cheating detection

1:10:57

mechanism and people cheat

1:10:59

all the time on chess.com which is

1:11:02

crazy because there's no reason for it, right?

1:11:04

Like someone like me I pay whatever I

1:11:06

pay every month on chess.com. I'm a random

1:11:08

amateur player I like playing when I'm on

1:11:10

the subway, I like playing my friend occasionally.

1:11:12

You don't get any money for winning. Most

1:11:15

of us have anonymous usernames,

1:11:17

you don't get bragging rights for winning and

1:11:20

yet there's a certain percentage of people like me

1:11:22

on chess.com that just cheat for

1:11:24

no reason. They're just sitting at home in their

1:11:26

mother's basement cheating to

1:11:28

get a number on a screen that

1:11:30

means nothing. Yeah but to me it

1:11:32

makes complete sense. Really? Why? Because of

1:11:34

video games. Because in video games people

1:11:36

would use bots when you'd play online.

1:11:39

So an aiming bot would make it so that

1:11:41

you would almost never miss. So you

1:11:43

would play a guy and like say in Quake

1:11:45

there's a gun called the rail

1:11:47

gun. The rail gun is very difficult to hit

1:11:49

someone with but it imparts the most damage but

1:11:52

it doesn't have a scatter of damage. Like

1:11:54

a rocket you could shoot a rocket next to a guy

1:11:56

and fuck him up. You could hurt him but it won't

1:11:58

hurt him as much as a railgun which would kill

1:12:00

him almost instantly unless he has a specific amount

1:12:03

of armor and there's some guys who would never

1:12:05

miss they just hit you with that railgun every

1:12:07

time your head poked out it would be impossible

1:12:09

for them to know exactly where you were gonna

1:12:11

be the amount of time unless it was dumb

1:12:13

luck but you can't have dumb luck nine times

1:12:15

in a row that's right ten times in a

1:12:17

row and 20 times in a row 50 times

1:12:19

in a row there's right did be scores like

1:12:21

50 to zero yeah against like really good players

1:12:24

and it's not for any money and it's not

1:12:26

very much they're just laughing because they're clowning that's

1:12:28

right right it's fun yeah

1:12:30

so so that's what people do on

1:12:32

chess.com and just like that game where

1:12:34

you you literally mathematically can only have

1:12:36

so much good luck right chess.com has

1:12:38

algorithms that are really really good at

1:12:40

detecting when you've gone from the good

1:12:42

luck space to the definitely cheating space

1:12:44

so how do they know so so

1:12:46

they looked at they looked at Hans

1:12:49

Niemann's games and they found

1:12:51

that he was almost certainly cheating on

1:12:53

chess.com in certain games and they they

1:12:56

did a whole report where they highlighted the

1:12:58

specific games and is it an

1:13:00

analysis of his previous games? previous

1:13:02

games so you see this

1:13:05

the level of competency based

1:13:07

on the previous games. What

1:13:09

do you mean? So you see his level of mistakes

1:13:11

and what the way he does it and then in

1:13:13

the games where you they think he's

1:13:16

cheating what was the variable that they

1:13:18

detected? So one variable

1:13:20

that they use is the length

1:13:23

of time between your moves because

1:13:26

in a normal chess match there's

1:13:30

it's a bit random right you'll do some moves

1:13:32

quickly and some moves slowly but if

1:13:34

you're cheating you're using a machine that takes

1:13:36

five seconds to load for every move checking

1:13:38

the move you might have

1:13:40

you're gonna have a regularity each move

1:13:42

is gonna come after five seconds for

1:13:44

example right so that's one factor and

1:13:47

then they have other factors another factor

1:13:49

is just how high how accurate your

1:13:52

moves are because chess is close

1:13:55

to solve meaning the machines are playing it better than

1:13:57

we are so you can check a

1:13:59

human player against the machine player, even

1:14:01

Magnus Carlsen will lose a thousand times in

1:14:04

a row now to Stockfish. A thousand times.

1:14:06

He has no chance. I remember when Big

1:14:08

Blue first started playing chess against people. That

1:14:10

was always the thing. Once a computer can

1:14:12

beat a person, we're fucked. Yeah. We're way

1:14:15

long past that now. That's wild. And so

1:14:17

they can check if you're playing 99.5%

1:14:21

of the Stockfish top moves, that's just not

1:14:23

possible. Magnus can't do it. Nobody can do

1:14:25

it. You might be able to do it

1:14:28

for one simple game, but you can't do

1:14:30

it 12 games in a row that

1:14:32

are complicated. It's just not possible. Very

1:14:34

much like what you talked about. So chess.com

1:14:36

combines that measure with these other

1:14:39

measures. It even kind of knows, I think,

1:14:41

when you're switching browsers, which can be a

1:14:43

tip off to cheating because you're

1:14:45

switching from the chess browser, you're playing chess into the

1:14:47

browser that you're cheating

1:14:50

with. Why wouldn't they just have a separate

1:14:52

computer? Exactly. So that's not the only thing.

1:14:55

They could have, well, if generally they require

1:14:57

you now to have a camera if

1:15:00

you're competing in a tournament. So you have to show

1:15:02

your surroundings so that they know you're not using

1:15:05

a separate computer. But you could

1:15:07

have someone off camera that was

1:15:09

cheating for you. In theory, yep.

1:15:11

You could have a dual monitor

1:15:14

setup and so on. Yeah. But

1:15:16

the algorithm is regarded

1:15:19

as very accurate in

1:15:21

terms of determining cheating. And they did determine that

1:15:23

he had cheated in a bunch of, let's

1:15:27

say they weren't top tournaments, but they were friendly

1:15:29

tournaments. Some of them had money on the line.

1:15:31

So it was never

1:15:34

proven that he cheated over the

1:15:36

board. And I'm agnostic about that.

1:15:38

I've read both sides. I don't have a

1:15:40

strong opinion about whether he had cheated over

1:15:42

the board in real big tournaments, but

1:15:45

it was proven that he had cheated online. And

1:15:48

again, all of this is separate from

1:15:50

the fact that he's a damn good

1:15:52

chess player. Nobody denies he is a

1:15:54

grandmaster. He should be a grandmaster. He

1:15:57

is capable of defeating Magnus Carlsen in

1:15:59

a game. Not in the match. So

1:16:02

that's not to take anything away from him But

1:16:05

there was rumors circulating and that's basically what

1:16:07

happened. And so his defense was I believe

1:16:09

he admitted to some of it Yes And

1:16:12

his defense was that he was doing that

1:16:14

because he wanted to get higher ratings quicker

1:16:16

so he could play better players Okay.

1:16:19

Well still cheating still cheating every

1:16:22

every chess player wants to do that, right? So

1:16:24

just why they all cheat it's not an excuse.

1:16:26

It's not. Yeah Also, I think he said he

1:16:28

was 16 at the time But

1:16:31

then there was some evidence that he did it when he

1:16:33

was like 90. Yeah, that's right. That's right Yeah, he he

1:16:35

he under exaggerated the he downplayed

1:16:37

it. Yeah, he downplayed it even in his

1:16:39

admission But

1:16:42

again, he's a damn good chess player and and

1:16:44

he has a fiery personality Which

1:16:46

like so many of these chess guys, unfortunately

1:16:49

are just so freakin boring. Mmm from the

1:16:51

audience perspective right that when you get a

1:16:53

guy there that's like shit talking and And

1:16:56

like kind of being a being

1:16:58

like braggadocious and stuff It's really entertaining

1:17:01

to watch because it's so rare so

1:17:03

many chess players. I love them

1:17:05

They're a little bit autistic on the spectrum. That's

1:17:08

not not to cast aspersions. It's just true, right?

1:17:10

And so from an entertainment point of view, I

1:17:13

think he's very good for the chess world So

1:17:15

he talked shit while he plays talk shit after

1:17:17

the game. Oh talk shit after the game

1:17:20

He's some shit talking while he plays. It's like

1:17:22

Washington Square Park shit Okay

1:17:25

guys have no challenge man. I've lost a lot

1:17:27

of money of those guys That's a fun day

1:17:29

great though when those guys are talking shit and

1:17:31

there's slack on that clock. I guess in it

1:17:33

Entertaining chest they'll crush you every time but wouldn't

1:17:35

that be like better to have like if you

1:17:37

want more I guess they don't really care if

1:17:39

more people pay attention to it the purity of

1:17:41

no they do get chess calm definitely cares They've

1:17:43

they've had a huge influence in upping

1:17:45

chess as a as a as an audience You

1:17:48

know sport that audience is watch the move is

1:17:50

like the searching for Bobby Fischer move. Just get

1:17:52

him out there in the park Oh, yeah, that's

1:17:54

fun. Yeah, those I've

1:17:56

watched regular chess because I'm fascinated by it,

1:17:58

but and I know I know how the pieces

1:18:00

move, but I really don't know how to play. I'm terrible. Yeah.

1:18:04

But I love watching those guys. I love

1:18:06

watching people sit down and talk shit. Yep.

1:18:09

And I love when a real grandmaster

1:18:11

sits down and talks shit. Because some of

1:18:13

them are real high-level tournament players that get

1:18:16

in there and mix it up with

1:18:18

those dudes. They do. Oh,

1:18:20

I see what you're doing. They do. Are you

1:18:22

talking some shit here? Yeah. And the guys

1:18:24

at the park are usually just a little bit worse than the kind of mid-level professionals.

1:18:27

And the middle-level professionals will beat them. And

1:18:30

the guys do not like to be beat.

1:18:32

Of course. Because think about it. They're sitting

1:18:34

there making money all day, occasionally encountering douchebags

1:18:36

that think that they can beat them. Right?

1:18:40

And then someone comes along who really can beat them,

1:18:42

and they don't like to lose. Of course. They

1:18:44

do not like to lose. I mean, for example, there was one

1:18:47

time... I've never beaten one of the main guys. So

1:18:49

I'm just going to be honest about that. Never even come

1:18:51

close to beating any of the main guys at Washington Square

1:18:53

or Union Park in New York, and I never will. One

1:18:56

day there was a sub there. Not

1:18:59

one of the normal guys. And I was

1:19:01

beating him. I was so excited. It was

1:19:03

the first time. I was like, I'm tired of losing all

1:19:06

my money, these people. And

1:19:09

one of his friends came over, saw that I was winning

1:19:11

because it was obvious I was winning. And

1:19:14

the guy made some kind of innocent comment. And

1:19:17

the guy I'm playing goes, oh, oh, well,

1:19:19

he's helping you now. The game's void. And

1:19:22

I was like, oh, come on, dude. Come

1:19:24

on. You're just saying that because you're losing.

1:19:28

But I let him have it. I was like, screw it. Yeah, you don't

1:19:30

want to get in a fight with those dudes. No, some of them are

1:19:32

really weird. A lot of them are high. A lot of them are drunk

1:19:34

during the day. Yeah. I

1:19:36

was watching one where this grandmaster was playing one

1:19:38

of those guys, and the guy moved

1:19:41

his piece in a funny way. He went back

1:19:43

and forth and put it in a different spot. And

1:19:45

he's like, hey, I saw what you did. I

1:19:47

saw what you did there. Oh, yeah,

1:19:50

the video with Maurice Ashley? That's him. Oh,

1:19:52

that's the best. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because

1:19:55

Maurice is beating his ass. And

1:19:57

I think he's sweat. a

1:20:00

little magician's trick but Morrise catches it but

1:20:02

and this is like you can't play it

1:20:04

unfortunately the volume will get in trouble but

1:20:07

yeah he busted him doing it see

1:20:17

what he did that that's what he did yep yep yep

1:20:20

that was it yeah

1:20:31

hilarious that would 100

1:20:33

that would probably work on me but that's not going

1:20:35

to work on a grandmaster and he didn't know that

1:20:38

this was Morrise Ashley he just thought this was some

1:20:40

random guy so now his ego was involved i can't

1:20:42

lose to some rando and though he tries

1:20:44

to pull a fast one but nope not on

1:20:46

a grandmaster and a grandmaster is very confident and

1:20:48

smiling yeah doesn't seem like he's under pressure at

1:20:50

all no not at all yeah that that little

1:20:52

magic trick i mean how often did that guy

1:20:54

do that because he did it so smooth i'd

1:20:56

never know it was so smooth the way he

1:20:59

did it you know it's

1:21:01

like no it's three-card monty in

1:21:03

chess form right yeah well

1:21:05

that's pool hustlers do that too what

1:21:08

do they do they'll pretend to miss

1:21:10

they'll they'll they'll move things they're stick

1:21:12

they'll like look someone who's really good

1:21:14

they'll cheat they'll cheat in ways where you

1:21:16

don't see it they'll guide a

1:21:18

ball in if they know that your your angle

1:21:21

is where you can't see what's going on right

1:21:23

and then also they'll miss on purpose that's

1:21:25

the whole thing of pool hustling is playing

1:21:27

below your speed until the money gets raised

1:21:30

the whole thing about pool hustling is get a guy to

1:21:32

think that he can win so let him win and

1:21:35

then maybe you almost win but lose

1:21:37

and you get upset you want to

1:21:39

try it again now he's really confident

1:21:41

like yeah let's do it again and

1:21:44

then you lose big and

1:21:46

then you say double or nothing he's like fuck

1:21:48

yeah double or nothing and then you play really

1:21:50

good and then he's like fuck

1:21:54

and so now that bet is gone from 1 000 to 5

1:21:56

000 to one

1:21:59

set for 10 grand right and you know you're

1:22:01

up six grand so you think you got this and

1:22:03

then he beats you and there's like there's no way

1:22:05

fuck that let's do it again and then you do

1:22:07

it again and now he plays even

1:22:10

better like he might be playing even when

1:22:12

he's playing good at like 70% of his

1:22:14

speed right to make you think he had a

1:22:16

lucky one I had a friend who used to

1:22:18

do that he's a musician who was a genius it

1:22:23

was just a crazy person who's like lived

1:22:25

as a pool hustler he's always homeless like

1:22:27

the whole time I knew it was like

1:22:30

staying on people's couches and sleeping in like

1:22:33

flophouses and shit he's addicted to drugs but he was

1:22:35

the kind of guy that you could do math he

1:22:37

could do it in his head like you'd have a

1:22:39

calculator we would do it at the pool hall we'd

1:22:41

say 369 divided by 7 plus 5 minus

1:22:45

2 and he would bang out the number wow and

1:22:47

it was like that he's like what the

1:22:49

fuck man well he would pretend he sucks

1:22:51

so he was like a fat guy and

1:22:53

he would just show up in pool halls

1:22:55

and he was real loud and talking shit

1:22:57

and then he'd miss and when he'd miss

1:22:59

he'd fucking fall down fuck he'd like bang

1:23:01

his stick on the ground sweat go to

1:23:03

the bathroom wash his face and come back

1:23:05

out these guys they don't say thought they

1:23:07

had him we got this guy we

1:23:10

got this guy and then he starts

1:23:12

winning and he starts winning just barely and you're

1:23:14

like oh he's gonna fall apart he starts winning

1:23:16

barely more and then they would

1:23:18

get angry and you know and he would maybe

1:23:20

lose a game and then they get back to

1:23:22

it and then you know by the end of

1:23:25

the night don't even know what the fuck happened

1:23:27

right they're watching this guy who now looks like

1:23:29

a world champion he's just running out from everywhere

1:23:31

like what the fuck and you've got really mad

1:23:33

though oh yeah I mean yeah I could get

1:23:35

you beat up oh that's the movie The Hustler

1:23:38

they bring his hands they break his thumbs yeah

1:23:40

that's that's the thing that would happen so you

1:23:43

have to know like how much you can win

1:23:45

and you have to know like when to lose

1:23:47

right and you know sometimes you have to lose money just to

1:23:49

get out of there with your life you

1:23:51

got to agree to play another game and then

1:23:53

fall apart just to get out of there and

1:23:55

then maybe you can come back and play him

1:23:57

again there's guys that'll lose weeks a

1:24:00

row to set up a big game weeks they'll

1:24:02

come back in and lose you imagine conning for

1:24:04

that long oh yeah those guys are good it

1:24:07

was it was the part of the the crowd

1:24:09

can't imagine it but that was the way they

1:24:11

made money that was right part of the craft

1:24:13

and you didn't want to want to be known

1:24:15

so the best players back in the day would

1:24:17

not enter tournaments the best players

1:24:20

are these legendary guys that you would hear

1:24:22

that were just playing in pool halls and

1:24:24

then eventually pool got to a point where

1:24:26

it was on television they started making money

1:24:28

and and you know guys

1:24:30

became known like there's a guy named Buddy

1:24:32

Hall who's like one of the most famous money

1:24:34

players of all time and then eventually just

1:24:36

starts playing tournaments you know and now everybody knows

1:24:39

him anyway can't get a game he's Buddy Hall

1:24:41

these calm rags that was his initial game

1:24:43

a lot of these guys have like fake names

1:24:45

like Efren Reyes who's arguably the greatest of

1:24:47

all time he came up from the Philippines

1:24:49

and he said he was season Morales because

1:24:52

even in the Philippines in the Philippines he was

1:24:54

a he like everybody knew Efren was even when

1:24:56

he was in his 20s he was a wizard

1:24:58

like they call him the magician he was a

1:25:01

wizard on a pool table and when

1:25:03

he came up to America they weren't even sure they're

1:25:05

like just just to be safe come up with a

1:25:07

fake name and he just

1:25:09

robbed everybody at these tournaments just robbed

1:25:11

everybody in gambling just he could play

1:25:14

so much better than everybody he changed

1:25:16

the game like sort of like Hendrix

1:25:18

changed music Efren changed pool and

1:25:21

a lot of people they play like there's

1:25:24

a lot of things particularly like safety

1:25:26

play that they learn from watching Efren

1:25:28

what's safety play so say

1:25:30

if you're playing nine ball and

1:25:32

you're running the balls in order

1:25:34

right if I have a shot

1:25:36

on the one ball oh you don't have a shot at

1:25:38

the two I will knock the one

1:25:41

ball into a position and hide the cue

1:25:43

ball behind other balls that makes it bad

1:25:45

for you yeah now you have to hit

1:25:47

that lower number ball if you

1:25:49

don't hit the ball I get ball in hand so

1:25:51

you not only have to hit it but you have

1:25:53

to also one ball either the cue ball or the

1:25:55

object ball has to hit a rail after you hit

1:25:57

it right so you have to kick and so kicking

1:26:00

is you're shooting into the rails to try

1:26:02

to make it rebound off the rail and

1:26:04

collide perfectly with this ball over a nine

1:26:06

foot table. And Efren was just

1:26:08

a wizard at it. He would

1:26:10

do it in a way with not only would he

1:26:12

kick the ball, he would kick it in like a

1:26:15

lot of the time. That's crazy. And now guys play

1:26:17

to kick balls in. Right. All the

1:26:19

time because they learned it from Efren. Like three

1:26:21

rail kicks where you're cutting into a corner. They

1:26:23

know the exact spot on the table to hit

1:26:25

with the exact amount of speed and spin to

1:26:27

make it land right in front of that ball

1:26:30

and nudge it into the pocket. But

1:26:33

that's all learning

1:26:36

from these people that came

1:26:38

kind of

1:26:40

out of nowhere. These

1:26:43

pool players that were all these sort of shady

1:26:46

characters that were hiding out in these pool

1:26:48

halls in Louisiana and pretending they're like

1:26:51

a painter. They'd come in with like paint all

1:26:53

over their overhauls and shit. And

1:26:55

they'd be walking in like a hay

1:26:57

seed and just talk real stupid and

1:26:59

drink a bunch. And then

1:27:01

people would like get curious. Especially if there's like some

1:27:04

traveling salesman from out of town. They think he's a

1:27:06

badass. He plays a little pool and he's got some

1:27:08

money in his pocket. Next

1:27:10

thing you know, this guy's robbing you. Table

1:27:13

tennis is my other hobby. Really?

1:27:16

Yeah. Really? I play

1:27:18

at this place called Pingpod in New York. They have a bunch of locations. You can

1:27:20

go there for not 15 bucks or so. Just

1:27:23

play with your friend for an hour or they

1:27:26

have tournaments. It's

1:27:28

really fun. That's a wild game. I love

1:27:30

it. That's a wild game to watch too.

1:27:33

I'm always stunned that Pingpong

1:27:36

never became as popular as tennis because

1:27:39

it's so accessible and

1:27:41

it's so fun to watch and to

1:27:43

play. You can play it. People can

1:27:45

play it. Even lower barrier to entry

1:27:48

too. But also at the highest level,

1:27:50

insanely impressive. I was

1:27:52

watching this volley where these people were

1:27:54

like 7-10 feet away from the

1:27:56

table. Super

1:27:58

high speed and diving. back and

1:28:00

forth and back and forth and it's

1:28:02

like, ah, ah, ah! And the volley's

1:28:05

insane. Then when someone does score, you're

1:28:07

like, wow! Yeah, the reflexes are just

1:28:09

incredible. Amazing. And so many different moves

1:28:11

because you're dealing with something that's coming

1:28:13

at you, you know, over

1:28:15

this low thing, very fast. And you're

1:28:17

doing it this way and this way

1:28:19

and that way and gentle and fast.

1:28:21

Yeah. There's all these different

1:28:24

sneaky tactics. Oh, yeah. God, I love it.

1:28:26

I learned to play table tennis when I was,

1:28:28

I think, 13. I

1:28:31

went to a Chinese language learning camp in

1:28:33

Minnesota called Sen Lin Hu. And

1:28:37

you go there for a month, you can't

1:28:39

speak any English, I think after the first day. Wow.

1:28:42

I had a little bit of Chinese, not

1:28:44

very much. And so

1:28:46

that's how you learn. The quickest, of course,

1:28:48

is literally immersion. Yeah. So

1:28:51

you go there for a month

1:28:53

and no English for a month. And

1:28:56

they had, this is older Chinese guy, it was

1:28:58

like 60 or 70. And

1:29:01

I was super into ping pong, but I wasn't so

1:29:03

good. And basically I

1:29:05

played with him every day during the free period

1:29:07

for like over an hour. And

1:29:10

he beat me probably like 50 times

1:29:12

in a row. But by the

1:29:14

end of that camp, I was beating all the

1:29:16

other kids. Oh. This

1:29:18

guy would beat me like 20 to three every

1:29:20

single game. But

1:29:23

through losing to him, I got good enough to beat all

1:29:25

the other kids. Yeah, you get what's called the rub. Yeah.

1:29:28

And I didn't realize I was getting good because I

1:29:30

was getting beat 21 to three every single time. But

1:29:33

you're also absorbing what he's doing. Yes. You're

1:29:35

experiencing it. Yeah, you're getting the rub. Yeah.

1:29:38

That happens in fights. When a fighter fights like an elite

1:29:40

world champion, one of two things will happen. Either they'll realize

1:29:42

like, oh my God, that guy just beat my ass. I'm

1:29:44

never going to be as good as that guy. Or

1:29:47

the next fight, you see a completely overhauled

1:29:49

version of who they were because they got

1:29:52

the rub. They got in there with Israel

1:29:54

out of Tanya and they got school. And

1:29:56

so they're either going to come back and be better than ever

1:29:58

like Robert Whitaker or Fall apart

1:30:00

like some guys that he's fought he's right breaks

1:30:02

guys because they realize like I never I can't

1:30:05

do what you're doing The way

1:30:07

you're doing it my body doesn't work like that Israel

1:30:11

in his prime was hitting guys with

1:30:13

comedy watch the Derek Brunson. We'll pull

1:30:15

up the Derek Brunson fight Derek

1:30:18

Brunson Dangerous guy knockout striker

1:30:20

really good wrestler very physically

1:30:22

strong just a dangerous top

1:30:25

contender He's fighting out of

1:30:27

Sonya and it's I believe it's before out

1:30:29

of son You won the title if I'm

1:30:31

correct not sure it might have been

1:30:33

in defense of the title either way I

1:30:36

don't sign you who will go down as one of the greatest of all time for

1:30:38

sure he hits him with

1:30:40

combinations like Like he's

1:30:42

on a different speed like

1:30:45

they're like there's a 45 record

1:30:47

in a 78. He's he's doing

1:30:49

something different He's moving in a

1:30:51

way. That's so precise and

1:30:54

he knows many steps If

1:30:56

I do this you're gonna do that and

1:30:58

if I step this way you're gonna go

1:31:00

that way and he's got all this Programmed

1:31:02

in his head and he's not what he

1:31:04

calls smashing buttons He calls like a lot

1:31:06

of people they're smashing buttons when they're playing

1:31:08

a game You know, they don't really exactly

1:31:10

know what each button is doing, but they're

1:31:12

trying to win by smashing buttons He's like a lot

1:31:14

of people fight that way. He goes I fight with

1:31:16

precision It's like it's important. He's

1:31:18

like a lot of people hit harder than

1:31:20

me, but I have precision watch this K.O

1:31:22

Because this is a beautiful thing to watch

1:31:24

if you appreciate combat sports and if you

1:31:27

know how good Derek Brunson is So

1:31:29

Derek Brunson is like very physically strong

1:31:31

right here. He's trying to take out of Sonya down

1:31:34

because Derek top-tier wrestler

1:31:36

and so They

1:31:38

separate them something happened. I think Derek was grabbing his

1:31:40

shorts or something to get mad at each other. And

1:31:43

so This is where out of

1:31:45

Sonya pieces him up So

1:31:54

He's avoiding the takedowns here Derek

1:31:56

is, you know a real powerhouse

1:31:58

as a wrestler but out of Sonya's a

1:32:03

Striking virtuoso, so then he starts putting

1:32:05

it on him So

1:32:10

Derek is just frantically trying to get this

1:32:12

fight to the mat every chance he gets

1:32:23

The combinations just perfect look at this

1:32:26

watch this He's

1:32:31

just piecing him up just

1:32:33

connecting incredible So

1:32:38

when you're in that space when

1:32:41

you're like in a

1:32:43

cage with that guy one of two things gonna happen

1:32:46

Either you're gonna go I can't do that. I'm

1:32:48

not that good. He just fucked me

1:32:50

up clearly I'm so I'm 34

1:32:52

years old. I'm never gonna get as good as that

1:32:55

guy or You become

1:32:57

a fucking maniac and you go

1:32:59

to the gym Monday morning and

1:33:01

you're drilling everything and you now

1:33:03

you have this new Frequency

1:33:06

that you've experienced and experience this championship

1:33:08

level fighter and you realize these guys

1:33:10

you've been beating They're good, but this

1:33:12

is what it's like to be in

1:33:15

there with an all-time great Right and

1:33:17

you either get great yourself Which

1:33:19

many like I said Robert Whitaker has done

1:33:21

or you don't or you just kind of

1:33:23

like decide that you're a journeyman now Yeah,

1:33:25

never gonna be a champion. That's sort of

1:33:27

what happened with the dream team. Did you

1:33:29

see that documentary? They did know they did

1:33:31

a great actually the redeem team as it

1:33:33

was called remember when the the the US

1:33:36

basketball team lost Was it

1:33:38

to a Spain? Mm-hmm in the

1:33:40

finals of the Olympics, right and

1:33:42

then four years later, obviously all All

1:33:46

Americans that care about basketball have an

1:33:48

extreme ego that we are the best

1:33:50

country for basketball, right? Which is true,

1:33:52

but the rest of the world is

1:33:54

catching up I mean these European guys were

1:33:57

getting better and better and I think there was

1:33:59

American complacency and

1:34:01

the dream team lost Which

1:34:04

was a huge blow to everyone

1:34:06

who cared about basketball and to the pride of

1:34:08

the NBA and then four years later You

1:34:11

had what they were calling the redeem team There's

1:34:15

LeBron James Dwayne Wade Kobe

1:34:17

Bryant and so forth and basically

1:34:20

everyone except Kobe got up to training and

1:34:23

They were all kind of they thought that they

1:34:25

were motivated. They they thought that they had

1:34:27

a chip on their shoulders they thought we're

1:34:29

in the right headspace to redeem the country and Then

1:34:33

Kobe got there And

1:34:35

they realized they they were they were being

1:34:37

silly right like Kobe. They were

1:34:39

going to practice They were doing their thing and then they were

1:34:41

going out clubbing and Then

1:34:44

when they were getting home at 3 a.m.

1:34:46

From clubbing they would see Kobe getting up

1:34:49

to go to the gym and When

1:34:51

they saw that then they all started doing

1:34:53

Kobe's regimen and they're like that's that's

1:34:55

a whole different level Wow and

1:34:57

then they won handily and That's

1:35:00

the story. It's a great documentary. It's interesting

1:35:03

how the rest of the world starts

1:35:05

catching up with certain things You

1:35:08

know it used to be in boxing

1:35:10

that Amateur

1:35:12

boxing was dominated by Americans. It

1:35:15

was for the longest time and Something

1:35:18

happened somewhere along the way First

1:35:21

of all the the issue was always communist

1:35:23

block countries, right? Tiafilo Stevenson is one of

1:35:25

the best examples of that He was an

1:35:28

elite world champion from Cuba and

1:35:30

people had always wanted him to fight Muhammad Ali

1:35:32

like oh my god What would it be like if

1:35:34

Tiafilo Stevenson fought Muhammad Ali because he was beating

1:35:36

everybody in boxing as

1:35:38

a heavyweight But he was Cuban and he was

1:35:40

communist and he fought for the Olympic team period

1:35:42

and that was it He never defected many boxers

1:35:45

did but he didn't but so they

1:35:47

have that advantage They're being sponsored by

1:35:49

the state. They they get food and special training

1:35:51

and special privileges if they leave They

1:35:54

win and Yoel Romero who was on the

1:35:56

cubic? Cuban wrestling team he

1:35:58

explained that all to us It was

1:36:00

awesome podcast. It was just Joey Diaz translated

1:36:02

for for yo, L was which is not

1:36:05

rages. It was amazing It was amazing But

1:36:07

the way he was saying the the programs

1:36:09

that they have like the insane dedication they

1:36:11

have and then if you are Of

1:36:14

the elite you get three meals a day. But

1:36:16

if you're below that you get two meals a day and So

1:36:19

you have this insane motivation that these young guys

1:36:22

have it's not just I want to be great.

1:36:24

It's like I want more food Yeah,

1:36:26

crazy. Yeah, he's like and you become

1:36:29

a machine And

1:36:33

have this guy was like Hulk of a man He's

1:36:36

so massive and he fights at 185 pounds or

1:36:38

at least he used to I have no idea

1:36:40

how he got to 185 pounds I

1:36:43

was always baffled by his weight

1:36:45

cut because he's enormous, you know,

1:36:47

I mean he's just like Just

1:36:50

specimen of a man. And so when

1:36:52

he says and you become a machine

1:36:56

And you look at him like he's

1:36:58

a fucking machine I mean that so there

1:37:00

was that in the Soviet

1:37:02

Bloc countries, but somewhere

1:37:05

along the line the Americans Lost

1:37:07

a lot of the dominance and now

1:37:10

there's these Eastern European fighters and there's

1:37:12

Russian fighters that are super

1:37:14

elite like very very high

1:37:16

level and they come over to Professional

1:37:19

boxing and there's quite a few of them

1:37:21

from some of those worn toward countries like

1:37:24

Chechnya Like one of the scariest guys in

1:37:26

the world right now is this guy Arthur

1:37:28

Bitterbeef and he's the light heavyweight

1:37:30

champion And nobody wants to fight him. He's 19

1:37:34

and oh with 19 knockouts.

1:37:36

No one survives Jesus and he's got

1:37:38

this seek and destroy Style

1:37:41

that's absolutely terrifying. He just comes

1:37:43

at guys and never backs up

1:37:46

and he's he looks like A

1:37:49

fucking terrifying human. He's built like a tank

1:37:51

with that beer, you know, the the lower

1:37:53

beard that Muslims have Mm-hmm, you know, he's

1:37:55

just a monster man. Just a monster. What's

1:37:57

what's the latest with the Mike Tyson loading?

1:38:00

Logan was it Logan Paul or Jake Jake Jake's the

1:38:02

really good tell me about that cuz I saw I

1:38:04

saw that Reported and I got super

1:38:06

interested in it, but I haven't looked into it since

1:38:08

I am Fascinating because

1:38:11

it's going to happen. There's nothing I could do to

1:38:13

stop it from happen Do you want to stop it

1:38:15

from I do not necessarily think it's a good idea

1:38:17

for 57 year old men to be fighting 27

1:38:19

year old men I

1:38:22

think with the skill to spit like if

1:38:24

a 27 year

1:38:26

old me fought a 57 year old

1:38:28

Mike Tyson. Yeah, he'd beat the fucking shit out of me. It'd

1:38:30

be quick But

1:38:32

a 27 year old Jake

1:38:34

Paul who can box and is very good

1:38:36

power and he's very fast and he's young

1:38:39

He's gonna be smaller than Mike Mike

1:38:42

will probably weigh 230

1:38:44

pounds ish and Jake will probably weigh 200

1:38:46

pounds ish He's

1:38:48

fought, you know, I think he got as low as

1:38:50

like 187 or 185 for some of his fights He's

1:38:53

a big guy though, and he probably cuts weight to get

1:38:56

there and he won't cut weight for this at all So

1:38:58

maybe he will be similar in weight Maybe

1:39:00

he won't want to because he will he'll want the speed

1:39:03

but he can knock people dead

1:39:05

He's a really good puncher and

1:39:07

he's a good boxer Like he's fought very

1:39:09

good boxers and he's knocked out a lot

1:39:12

of former MMA stars Including

1:39:15

like Tyron Woodley. He was one of the

1:39:17

greatest welter weights of all time and he

1:39:19

flatlined him. He's really good So what is

1:39:21

Mike Tyson's incentive to do this? It's

1:39:24

a lot of money. I'm sure I'm sure they

1:39:26

came to him with a lot of money you

1:39:28

know people don't think Jake Paul's really good those

1:39:30

people are all people that Can't

1:39:33

get by the fact that he's a YouTube guy. Like

1:39:36

I had this argument with Dave Portnoy We

1:39:38

were trying to tell me he sucks, you know and Tommy

1:39:40

Fury sucks. I mean he does not suck Don't say he

1:39:42

sucks. You don't know what you're talking about. I like him,

1:39:44

but you should separate that you can yeah You can't say

1:39:47

it was specifically Tommy Fury's like all right

1:39:49

bombs I go you're

1:39:51

incorrect as a person who

1:39:53

understands combat sports. This guy's very skilled. He's

1:39:55

very skilled He's a very elite boxer like

1:39:58

I'm watching the combinations. He throws shows his

1:40:00

movement, the way he steps and sets up

1:40:02

shots, the way he's countering. He's

1:40:04

a very high level boxer. He's a

1:40:06

real professional caliber boxer and Jake Paul,

1:40:09

that was his first loss. But it

1:40:11

was a close loss. Jake

1:40:13

Paul's a really good boxer and he knocks

1:40:15

a lot of people unconscious. And if he

1:40:17

wasn't Jake Paul, the YouTube guy, just this

1:40:20

wild kid coming up in the middle weight

1:40:22

ranks or the light heavyweight ranks or whatever

1:40:24

he can cruise away to guess he's in,

1:40:26

you would go, holy shit, look at this

1:40:28

guy. This guy's fun. He's

1:40:30

wild and he wears all his flashy jewelry,

1:40:32

he's got crazy tattoos everywhere and he knocks

1:40:34

people unconscious. And he's knocked a bunch of

1:40:36