0:03

From New York Times, I'm Michael Baubarro.

0:05

This is The Daily. Over

0:13

the past week, what had begun as

0:15

a smattering of pro-Palestinian protests

0:18

on America's college campuses

0:20

exploded into a nationwide

0:23

movement. The

0:28

students at dozens of universities held

0:31

demonstrations, set up encampments,

0:34

and at times seized

0:36

academic buildings. In

0:41

response, administrators at many of

0:43

those colleges decided to crack

0:45

down. Calling

0:52

in local police to carry

0:54

out mass detentions and arrests.

0:57

From Arizona State to

1:04

the University of

1:07

Georgia to City

1:09

College of New York. As

1:15

of Thursday, police had arrested 2,000 students

1:18

on more than 40 campuses,

1:21

a situation so startling that

1:23

President Biden could no longer

1:26

ignore it. Look, it's

1:28

basically a matter of fairness. It's

1:30

a matter of what's right. There's the

1:32

right to protest, but not

1:34

the right to cause chaos. Today,

1:38

my colleagues, Jonathan Wolf and

1:40

Peter Baker, on

1:42

a history-making week. It's

1:45

Friday, May 3rd. Jonathan,

1:51

as this tumultuous week on

1:54

college campuses comes to an end,

1:56

it feels like the most

1:58

extraordinary scene played

2:01

out on the campus of the University

2:03

of California, Los Angeles, where

2:05

you have been reporting. What

2:08

is the story of how that

2:10

protest started and

2:12

ultimately became so explosive?

2:15

So late last week, pro-Palestinian

2:18

protesters set up an encampment at the

2:20

University of California, Los Angeles. It

2:25

was right in front of Royce Hall, which

2:28

I don't know if you are familiar

2:30

with UCLA, but it's like a very famous red brick

2:33

building. It's like on all the brochures. And

2:35

there was two things that like stood out

2:37

about this encampment. And the first thing was

2:40

that they sort of barricaded the encampment. The

2:42

encampment, complete with tents and barricades, has been

2:44

set up in the middle of the Westwood

2:46

campus. The protesters that they have, you know,

2:48

metal grates, they had wooden pallets, and they

2:51

sort of separated themselves from the campus. This

2:53

is kind of interesting. They are controlling access,

2:55

as we've been talking about. They are trying

2:57

to control who is allowed in, who is

2:59

allowed out. They sort of policed the areas

3:01

they only would let people that were like

3:04

part of their community, they said, inside. I'm

3:06

a UCLA student. I deserve to go here.

3:08

We pay tuition. This is our school, and

3:11

they're not letting me walk in. Well, I can't tell you, will you

3:13

let me go in? We're

3:15

not engaging. Then you can move. Will you move?

3:18

And the second thing that's said about this

3:20

camp was that it immediately attracted pro-Israel counterprotesters.

3:23

And what did the leadership of UCLA say

3:25

about all of this, the

3:28

encampment and these counterprotesters? So

3:31

the University of California's approach was pretty unique.

3:33

They had a really hands-off approach, and they

3:35

allowed the pro-Palestinian protesters to set up an

3:37

encampment. They allowed the counterprotesters to happen. I

3:40

mean, this is a public university, so anyone

3:42

who wants to can just enter the campus.

3:45

So when do things start to escalate?

3:48

So there were definitely fights

3:50

and scuffles through the weekend, but a

3:53

turning point was really Sunday. When

4:00

this group called the Israeli American

4:02

Council, their nonprofit organization, organized a

4:04

rally on campus. The

4:06

Israeli American Council has really

4:09

been against these pro-Palestinian protests.

4:11

They say that they're anti-Semitic.

4:14

So this nonprofit group sets up a

4:16

stage with a screen, really just

4:18

a few yards from the pro-Palestinian encampment. We

4:21

are grateful. This is how

4:23

Friday, the U.S. is how

4:26

Friday, the

4:28

round ofyeon, and

4:35

they host speakers and they help prayers, people..

4:51

multiple other people are supposed to show up and

4:55

even some agitators makes it really clear that

4:57

something was about to happen. And

5:00

what was that? What ended up happening? On

5:02

Monday night a group of about 60 counter-protesters tried

5:05

to breach the encampment there and

5:07

the campus police had to break it up. And

5:09

things escalated again on Tuesday. They

5:12

stormed the barricades and it's a complete

5:14

riot. I

5:21

went to report on what happened just a few hours

5:23

after it ended. Hello. Hi.

5:26

And I spoke to a lot of protesters

5:28

and I met one demonstrator Marie. Yeah,

5:30

my first name is Marie,

5:32

M-A-R-I-E, last name's Salem. And

5:35

Marie described what happened. So

5:37

can you just tell me a little bit about what

5:40

happened last night? Last

5:42

night we were approached

5:44

by, you know, over

5:47

100 counter-protesters who were very

5:50

mobilized and ready to break into

5:52

camp. They proceeded to

5:54

try to breach our barricades

5:56

extremely violently. Marie said it

5:59

started getting out of hand when- counterprotesters started setting off

6:01

fireworks towards the camp. They had bear

6:03

spray, they had mace, they

6:06

were throwing wood and like

6:08

spears, throwing water bottles, continuing

6:10

fireworks. So she said that they

6:13

were terrified. It was just all hands on deck. Everyone

6:15

was guarding the barricades. Every time someone

6:17

was experiencing the bear

6:19

spray or mace or was hit and bleeding, we

6:22

had some medics in the front line and then

6:24

we had people. And they said

6:26

that they were just trying to take care

6:28

of people who were injured. I mean, at

6:30

any given moment, there is, you know, five

6:32

to 10 people being treated. So what she

6:34

described to me sounded more like a battlefield

6:36

than a college campus. And

6:38

it was just a

6:41

complete terror and complete

6:43

abandonment of the university. As

6:46

we also watched private security, watched this

6:49

the entire time on the stairs. And

6:51

some LAPD were stationed about

6:54

a football field link back

6:56

from these counterprotesters and

7:00

did not make a single arrest,

7:02

did not attempt to stop any

7:05

violence. Did not attempt to get

7:07

in between the two groups. No

7:10

attempt. I should

7:12

say I spoke to state authorities and eyewitnesses

7:14

and they confirmed Marie's account about what happened

7:16

that night, both in terms of the violence

7:19

that took place as the encampment and how

7:21

law enforcement responded. So in the

7:23

end, people ended up fighting for hours before the

7:25

police intervened. So

7:31

in her mind, UCLA's hands off

7:34

approach would seem to have prevailed

7:36

throughout this entire period, ends up

7:38

being way too hands off in

7:41

a moment when students were

7:43

in jeopardy. That's right. And

7:46

so at this point, the protesters in the encampment started preparing

7:48

for sort of two days. One

7:50

was that this group of counterprotesters would return

7:52

and attack them. And the second

7:54

one was that the police would come and try

7:56

to break up some cameras. So they start building up

7:58

the barricades. They start reinforcing. them with wood and

8:01

during the day hundreds of people came and brought

8:03

them supplies. They brought

8:05

food, they brought helmets, goggles,

8:08

earplugs, saving solution, all sort

8:10

of things these people could use to defend themselves

8:12

and so they're really getting ready to burrow in.

8:15

And in the end it was the police that came. So

8:20

Wednesday at 7pm they made an

8:22

announcement on top of Voice Hall which

8:24

overlooks the encampment. And

8:33

they told people in the encampment that they needed to leave

8:35

or face arrest. And

8:39

so as night falls they put on all this gear

8:41

that they've been collecting, the goggles, the masks and the

8:43

earplugs and they wait for the police. And

8:48

so the police arrive and sort of station themselves

8:50

right in front of the encampment and

8:52

then at a certain point they storm the back stairs

8:54

of the encampment. And this

8:58

is the stairs that the protesters have been using to enter and

9:00

exit the camp. And they set

9:02

up a line and the protesters do this really

9:04

surprising thing. They

9:08

open up umbrellas, they have these sort of strobe

9:10

lights and they're flashing them at

9:12

the police who sort of just like slowly back

9:14

out of the camp. And

9:24

so at this point they're feeling really great, you know, they're like we

9:26

did it, we pushed them out of the camp.

9:28

And when the cops try to push again on

9:31

those same set of stairs,

9:36

the protesters organize themselves with all these shields that

9:39

they had built earlier and they go and confront

9:41

them. And so there's this moment where the police

9:43

are trying to push up the stairs and the

9:45

protesters are literally pushing them back. And

9:54

at a certain point dozens of the police officers who were there basically

9:56

just turn around and leave. come

10:00

to an end. So

10:03

at a certain point the police push in

10:05

again. Most of the conflict is centered at

10:07

the front of these barricades and the police

10:09

just start tearing them apart. They

10:15

remove the front barricade and in its place

10:17

is this group of protesters who have linked

10:19

arms and they're hanging on to each other

10:21

and the police are trying to pull protesters

10:23

one by one away from this group. But

10:30

they're having a really hard time because there's so many protesters and

10:32

they're all just hanging on to each other. So at

10:34

a certain point one of

10:37

the police officers

10:40

started firing something into the crowd. We don't exactly

10:42

know what it was but it really

10:45

spooked the protesters. They

10:52

started falling back. Everyone was really scared.

10:54

The protesters were yelling, don't shoot us,

10:57

and at that point the police

10:59

just sort of stormed the camp. And

11:06

so after about four hours of this the

11:08

police pushed the protesters out of the encampment.

11:10

They had arrested about 200 protesters and this

11:12

was finally over. And

11:14

I'm just curious Jonathan because you're

11:16

standing right there. You are bearing

11:18

witness to this all. What you're

11:22

thinking, what your impressions of this were? I

11:24

mean I was stunned. These

11:27

are mostly teenagers. This is a

11:29

college campus, an institution of higher learning, and what I saw

11:31

in front of me looked like a war zone. The

11:36

massive barricades of police coming in with

11:38

riot gear and all this violence was

11:40

happening in front of these red brick

11:42

buildings that are famous for

11:44

symbolizing really open college campus and everything

11:46

about it was just totally surreal. Well

11:58

Jonathan, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank

12:01

you. We'll

12:13

be right back. Peter

12:19

around 10am on Thursday morning as

12:21

the smoke is literally

12:24

still clearing at the University

12:26

of California, Los Angeles. You

12:29

get word that President Biden is going

12:31

to speak. Right,

12:33

exactly. He wasn't on his public schedule. He was

12:35

about to head to Andrews Air Force Base in

12:37

order to take a trip. And then suddenly we

12:39

got the notice that he was going to be

12:41

addressing the cameras in the Roosevelt Room. They didn't

12:43

tell us what he was going to talk about,

12:45

but it was pretty clear. I think everybody understood

12:48

there was going to be about these campus protests,

12:50

about the growing violence and the clashes with police

12:52

and the arrests that the entire country been watching

12:54

on TV every night for the past

12:56

week. And I think that we were watching just that morning

12:58

with UCLA. And it reached

13:00

the point where he just had to say something.

13:02

And why in his estimation and those of his

13:04

advisors was this the moment that

13:06

Biden had to say something? Well,

13:09

it kind of reached a boiling point. It kind of

13:11

reached the impression of a national crisis. And you expect

13:13

to hear your president address it in

13:15

this kind of a moment, particularly because it's

13:17

about his own policy. His policy toward Israel

13:19

is at the heart of his protest. He

13:22

was getting a lot of grief. He was getting a

13:24

lot of grief from Republicans who were chiding him for

13:26

not speaking out personally. He hasn't said anything about 10

13:28

days. He's getting a lot of pressure from Democrats too

13:30

who wanted him to come out and be more forceful.

13:33

It wasn't enough in their view to leave it

13:35

to his spokespeople to say something. Moderate Democrats felt

13:37

he needed to come out and

13:40

take some leadership on this. And

13:42

so at the appointed moment, Peter,

13:44

what does Biden actually say

13:46

in the Roosevelt Room of the White

13:48

House? Good morning. Good morning.

13:50

Before I headed to North Carolina, I wanted

13:52

to speak a few moments about how much

13:55

going on on our college campuses

13:57

here. Clay comes in the Roosevelt Room and

13:59

he talks to the He talks about

14:01

the two clashing imperatives of

14:04

American principles. The first is

14:06

the right to free speech and

14:09

for people to peacefully assemble and make their

14:11

voices heard. The second is

14:14

the rule of law. Both

14:16

must be upheld. One is freedom

14:18

of speech. The other is the

14:20

rule of law. In fact, peaceful protest

14:22

is in the best tradition of how

14:24

Americans respond to consequential issues. But,

14:27

but neither are we a

14:29

lawless country. In other words, what he's

14:32

saying is, yes, I support the right

14:34

of these protesters to come out and

14:36

object to even my own policy, in

14:38

effect, is what he's saying. But it

14:41

shouldn't trail into violence. Destroying

14:44

property is not a peaceful protest.

14:46

It's against the law. Vandalism,

14:49

trespassing, breaking windows, shutting down

14:52

campuses. It shouldn't trail into

14:54

taking over buildings and obstructing

14:56

students from going

14:59

to class or canceling their

15:01

graduation. Threatening people, intimidating people,

15:03

and still inferring people is

15:06

not peaceful protest. It's against

15:08

the law. And

15:10

he leans very heavily into this idea that

15:12

what he's seeing these days goes beyond the

15:15

line. I understand people have strong

15:17

feelings and deep convictions. In

15:19

America, we respect the

15:21

right and protect the right for them to express

15:23

that. But it doesn't mean

15:26

anything goes. It is

15:28

crossed into harassment and expressions of

15:30

hate in a way that goes

15:32

against the national character. As

15:34

president, I will always defend for his speech. And

15:37

I will always be just as strong as standing up for the

15:39

rule of law. That's

15:41

my responsibility to you, the American people,

15:44

and my obligation to the Constitution. Thank

15:47

you very much. Right. As

15:49

I watched the speech, I heard his overriding

15:52

message to basically be, I, the president, I

15:54

say some drawing a line. These protests and

15:56

counter protests, the seizing and

15:58

defacing of campus buildings. class disruption,

16:00

all of it, name calling, it's getting out of hand,

16:02

that there's a right way to do this and what

16:05

I'm seeing is the wrong way to do it and it has

16:07

to stop. That's exactly

16:09

right. And as he's wrapping up, reporters

16:11

of course ask questions. And the first

16:13

question is... Does the covenant have the

16:16

protest? For some meetings

16:18

that are on the other, the policies

16:20

with regard to the region? Will this

16:22

change your policy toward the war in

16:24

Gaza? Which of course is exactly what

16:26

the protesters want. That's the point. Right.

16:29

And he basically says... No. No.

16:31

Just one word, no. Right,

16:34

and that's all kind of important, as brief and

16:36

fleeting as it was, because at the end of

16:38

the day, what

16:40

he's saying to these protesters is...

16:44

I'm not gonna do what you want.

16:47

And basically your protests are

16:49

never gonna work. I'm not gonna change

16:51

the US's involvement in this war. Yeah,

16:53

that's exactly right. He's saying, you know, I'm

16:55

not gonna be swayed by angry people in

16:58

the streets. I'm gonna do what I think

17:00

is right when it comes to foreign policy.

17:02

Now what he thinks is that they're not

17:04

giving him enough credit for

17:07

trying to achieve what they want, which is an

17:09

end of the war. He has been pressuring Israel

17:12

and Hamas to come to a deal for

17:14

a ceasefire that hopefully in his view would

17:16

then lead to a more enduring end

17:19

of hostilities. But of course

17:21

this deal hasn't gone anywhere. Hamas in particular

17:23

seems to be resisting it. And so the

17:25

president has left with a policy of arming

17:27

Israel without having found a way yet to

17:30

stop the war. Right.

17:33

I wonder though Peter, if we're being honest, don't

17:35

these protests, despite what Biden

17:38

is saying there, inevitably exert

17:40

a kind of power over

17:43

him, you know, becoming one of many

17:45

pressures, but a pressure nonetheless that

17:48

does influence how he thinks about these

17:50

moments. I mean here he is at the

17:52

White House devoting an

17:55

entire conversation to

17:57

the nation to these campus protests.

18:00

Well, look, he knows the fees into

18:03

the political environment in which he's running

18:05

for reelection, in which he basically has

18:07

people who otherwise might be his supporters

18:09

on the left disenchanted with

18:12

him. And he knows that there's a

18:14

cost to be paid. And that certainly obviously is in his head

18:16

as he's thinking about what to do. But I think his view

18:18

of the war is changing by the day for all

18:21

sorts of reasons, and most of them having to do

18:23

with realities on the ground. He

18:25

has decided that Israel has gone

18:27

far enough, if not too far,

18:30

in the way it has conducted

18:32

this operation in Gaza. He is

18:34

upset about the humanitarian crisis there.

18:36

And he's looking for a way

18:38

to wrap all this up into

18:41

kind of a move that would

18:43

move to peacemaking, like beginning to

18:45

get the region to a different

18:47

stage, maybe have a deal with

18:49

the Saudis to normalize relations with

18:51

Israel in exchange for some sort

18:54

of a two-state solution that would

18:56

eventually resolve the Palestinian issue at

18:58

its core. So I

19:00

think it's probably fair to say

19:02

that the protests won't move him in an

19:04

immediate kind of sense, but they

19:07

obviously play into the larger zeitgeist of

19:09

the moment. And I also think it's

19:11

important to know who Joe Biden is at heart. Mm,

19:14

explain that. He's not drawn to

19:16

activism. He was around in 1968,

19:18

the last time we saw this

19:20

major conflagration at Columbia University, for

19:22

instance. And Joe Biden was a

19:24

law student in Syracuse, about 250 miles away. And

19:28

he was an institutionalist even then. He was just

19:30

focused on his studies. He was about to graduate.

19:32

He was thinking about the law career. And he

19:35

didn't really have much of an affinity,

19:37

I think, for his fellow students

19:40

of that era for their activist

19:42

way of looking at things. He tells a story

19:44

in his memoir about walking down the street in

19:46

Syracuse one day to go to the pizza shop

19:48

with some friends. And they walk by the administration

19:50

building, and they see people hanging out of the

19:53

windows. They're hanging SDS banners.

19:55

That's the Students for a Democratic Society, which

19:57

was one of the big activist groups of

19:59

the And he says they

20:02

were taking over the building and we looked

20:04

up and said look at those assholes That's

20:07

how far apart from the anti-war movement.

20:09

I was that's him writing in his

20:11

memoir So to a young Joe Biden

20:14

those who devote their time and their

20:16

energy to protesting the war are I

20:20

don't need to repeat the word twice, but they're losers.

20:22

They're not worth this time Well,

20:24

I think it's the tactics they're using more

20:26

than the goals that he disagree with He

20:28

would tell you he disagree with the Vietnam

20:30

War. He was for civil rights But he

20:32

thought that taking over a building was performative

20:35

was all about getting attention and that there

20:37

was a better way in his view To

20:39

do it. He was somebody who wants to

20:41

work inside the system. He said in an

20:43

interview quite a few years back He says

20:45

look I was wearing sports coats in that

20:47

era He saw himself becoming part of the

20:49

system not somebody trying to tear it down. And

20:52

so how should we think about? that

20:56

Joe Biden when we think about this

20:58

Joe Biden I mean the Joe Biden who as

21:01

a young man looked upon

21:03

anti-war protesters with disdain and

21:06

The one who is now president and

21:09

his very own policies have inspired

21:11

such ferocious campus protests

21:15

Yeah, you know that Joe Biden the 1968 Joe Biden He

21:18

could just throw on a sports coat Go to

21:20

the pizza shop with his friends make fun of

21:22

the activists and call them names and then that's

21:24

it They didn't have to affect his life, but

21:27

that's not what 2024 Joe Biden can do Now

21:37

wherever he goes he's dogged by this

21:41

He goes to speeches and people

21:43

are shouting at him genocide Joe genocide

21:45

Joe He is the target of

21:47

the same kind of a movement that he

21:50

disdained in 1968

21:52

and so as much as he would like

21:54

to ignore it or move on or focus on

21:56

other things I think this has

21:59

become a defining image of his

22:01

year and one of

22:03

the defining images perhaps of his presidency

22:06

and 2024 Joe Biden

22:09

can't simply ignore it. Peter,

22:16

thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thank

22:18

you. We'll

22:24

be right back. Here's

22:41

what else you need to know today during

22:44

testimony on Thursday in Donald Trump's

22:46

hush money trial jurors

22:48

heard a recording secretly made

22:50

by Trump's former fixer Michael

22:52

Cohen in which Trump discusses

22:55

a deal to buy a woman

22:57

silence in the recording

22:59

Trump asks Cohen about how one

23:01

payment made by Trump to a

23:04

woman named Karen McDougal would be

23:06

financed. The recording could

23:08

complicate efforts by Trump's lawyers

23:11

to distance him from the hush

23:13

money deals at the center of

23:15

the trial. A

23:20

final thing to know tomorrow morning, we'll

23:22

be sending you the latest episode from

23:24

our colleagues over at the interview. This

23:27

week, David Marchese talks with comedy

23:29

star Marlon Wayans about his new

23:32

standup special. It's a high to

23:34

get when you don't know if this joke that I'm about to

23:36

say is going to offend everybody. Are

23:39

they going to walk out? Are they going to boo me?

23:41

Are they going to hate this? And he tell it and

23:44

everybody cracks up. You're like, whoo. Today's

23:52

episode was produced by Diana

23:55

Wynn, Luke Vanderploek, Alexandra Lee

23:57

Young, Nina Feldman and

23:59

Carlos Pareto. It was

24:01

edited by Lisa Chow and Michael Van

24:03

Waugh, contains original music

24:06

by Dan Powell and Mary

24:08

Lozano, and was engineered

24:10

by Chris Wood. Our

24:12

theme music is by Jim Brunberg and

24:14

Van Lanthruch of Wonderly. That's

24:18

it for the Daily. I'm

24:20

Michael Vovaro. See you

24:22

on Monday. you