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1:11

All right, let's do this. How are you?

1:14

What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What

1:16

the fuck, Nick? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron.

1:19

This is my podcast. Welcome to it again.

1:22

Thanks for being here. Been

1:24

a lot of great shows, a lot of good

1:26

shows coming up, a lot of

1:28

great conversations. I don't know what it is.

1:30

I think because this is such

1:33

an essential part of my social life, I've

1:36

been pretty engaged as

1:38

usual, but even more so. I think it's because I have

1:41

another job going on and I'm

1:43

a little in disarray, a little

1:45

outside of my patterns. When

1:48

I sit down and focus, and I

1:51

have to talk to folks that I'm just meeting

1:53

for the first time about their lives and how

1:55

they intersect with mine, I'm just

1:58

like, yeah, This is what I need. Need

2:00

I need to talk to somebody?

2:02

I need to get outta me

2:04

for a minute, but it's been

2:07

pretty great anyway. Welcome.

2:09

To the show. Molly Ringwald

2:11

as here and I just watch during

2:13

that does that? Truman Capote a thing?

2:16

Capote, he versus the Swans and sometimes

2:19

he was Molly Ringwald in I It's

2:21

I've Got paid that close attention to

2:23

her career of the years as though

2:25

she's kept working. He is. He's amazing.

2:28

She's. An amazing actress in it. We I

2:30

mean, I knew where we all knew were

2:32

right through the eighties with her roles in

2:35

the John Hughes movies Sixteen Candles, The Breakfast

2:37

Club pretty in Pink, But she's been acting

2:39

for like over forty years. She's.

2:41

Also a jazz singer, a

2:44

dancer, a professional translator of

2:46

French literature, That. I.

2:48

Just said that she's a professional

2:50

translator. A French literature? What?

2:53

Yeah. I mean, people

2:55

have. Expansive. Lives

2:57

you know in our minds and in

3:00

the cultural mind. someone could be this

3:02

one thing. And.

3:04

Then he learned they do like all these other

3:06

things and they're just having a full life. And.

3:09

Before going out what have been or whatever to

3:11

him or his other have a full life. Just

3:14

because he's not on your dumb radar

3:16

see, not on your dumb radar doesn't

3:18

imply anything other than. You.

3:20

Know you're not connected to them

3:22

anymore. Whatever. I.

3:26

Bullets Do this first. You know,

3:28

Morgan Spurlock. The. Documentary

3:30

filmmaker, Who. Was famous.

3:33

We did super size me. Died

3:35

on Thursday at sixty three. Years.

3:37

Old. That's fucking

3:39

tragic. Sixty. Three.

3:42

Years old. Or his family. As

3:44

said he was. Suffering. From cancer.

3:47

And. The thing is, we never did.

3:49

Morgan and I never did a full

3:51

Wtf episode, but he was on a

3:53

live episode in two thousand and Eleven.

3:56

Was. Recorded at the A Bell House

3:58

in Brooklyn Surface out. Thirteen.

4:01

And. We don't We just

4:03

play a segment. It's

4:05

Allies episode Ira Glass. Is.

4:08

Also on the stage and this is a.

4:10

Morgan Spurlock, Your back

4:12

of the day. It's like. Long. Time

4:15

Ago already. Like was thirteen years.

4:17

Wow. The first time I met

4:20

Morgan Spurlock I had no idea who he was

4:22

and neither did you say was like i

4:24

can remember what year was but I get is

4:26

called you remember what it would be like two

4:28

thousand and two of you know how it happened

4:31

but he's like a got this great idea

4:33

or it's an animated thing and were didn't do

4:35

a bunch of have. Any any

4:37

goes it's called Tommy two rats or ice

4:39

so do better than Partner Black and right

4:41

yeah so you have this big vision of

4:43

like this is like pre super size me

4:45

as I have is where the web company

4:47

and to the logos of reprogramming on the

4:49

internet the they sell off the like if

4:51

the be surprised that there was at mean

4:53

a million other people had that. Brilliant yeah

4:55

but at no point did either of us

4:57

he said it was in any way offensive

4:59

zone and I have a suffer from like

5:01

this is a genius yeah says that wasn't

5:03

the idea was it was a series of

5:06

enemies, sorts of. His character is just can't

5:08

control himself in a work environment that's right

5:10

for your idea. Was like what Tommy turrets

5:12

to point out and then you'll just keep

5:14

upgrading for hims. everybody a want the same

5:16

and was just a guy that walked around

5:18

the office going to is is the copier

5:20

fucking I can't stand a shit fuck that

5:22

and you're like this is great and will

5:24

act. As we sort of

5:26

we sort of the we launched the whole thing. really

5:28

we couldn't afford to do the series said we will

5:30

do will will do like South Park yeah and like

5:33

support wanted like a Christmas episode. so what would you

5:35

will make a Christmas card Word: Tommy Tressel. Seeing

5:37

we wish you a Merry Christmas set right?

5:39

and so we may This animated Tommy Turrets

5:41

Christmas cards were you could up the level

5:43

of threat in the video. As

5:46

you watch. shows

5:49

like we wish you success fucking still

5:51

married fuck press that right aren't exactly

5:53

right ah so he says that at

5:55

a christmas and ah that would be

5:57

enough And

6:02

then all of a sudden I see you like then Super

6:04

Size Me happens in what year? 2000,

6:07

2004. And then it's like I know

6:09

that guy! That's the Tommy Tarets guy!

6:12

And then I realized like this dude. I have no idea what you're talking

6:15

about. What do you mean? But then you

6:17

did that other thing where you, I remember being part

6:19

of that too where, or at least witnessing it where

6:21

you walked around Washington Square trying to get people to

6:23

eat poop and stuff. No, that was pretty, when we

6:25

were doing the same Tommy Tarets thing we created this

6:27

web show called I Bet You Will where we would

6:29

bet people to do stupid things for money. And

6:31

so what we did is we go out and bet people to

6:33

do stupid things and one of the things was we created, we

6:35

had a prop guy make fake poo that we planted in the

6:38

park that was made out of. Oh it was fake! It was

6:40

fake, it wasn't real poo. And did some guy eat it? And

6:42

so we bet some guy to eat it and so we paid

6:44

him like 500 bucks to eat this fake poo. But he thought

6:46

it was real poo so it was all just like this fantastical

6:48

warfare that was going on. See,

6:52

he's talking about poop for the rest

6:54

of his life now, Ira. That show

6:56

was not on NPR. I'm

7:00

just saying that, like, so you tell him after,

7:02

like when does he figure out that it's fake? Oh no,

7:04

we never told him. No, we never told him. No, no,

7:06

no. On the first bite, the first bite is... The first

7:08

thing in his podcast, he still thinks he's the guy who

7:10

ate poo on himself. So what did it taste like? Like

7:12

what flavor did it make? I didn't even try it. It

7:14

smelled so bad I didn't even go there. So the guy

7:16

made fake... It was brown flavor with dunks. You

7:19

made something that was disgusting as actual poop?

7:21

But it was made out of real food. It was made

7:23

out of real food and cheese products. But it looked... It

7:26

had the same consistency of a

7:29

fine dog log. See

7:33

that? We should find this guy. He should be on

7:35

an episode of This American Life. I

7:38

don't know. Remember the old John Waters film where

7:40

Divine eats the poo? That was real poo. That

7:42

was real poo. You saw it come out of

7:45

the dog. That's the way we roll in Baltimore.

7:47

That's right. It comes out of the dog. Represent.

7:49

I don't know how I feel about this

7:51

poo fakery that you're introducing to American cinema,

7:53

my good man. Well this aired on MTV.

7:55

I wouldn't know if I'd call it cinema.

7:58

How did you feel about Divine eating? When

8:00

he thought it was it was amazing I

8:03

was shocking It was as is it was

8:05

mind blowing Bath rossi. So.

8:07

I'd So then you go from there to the

8:09

even Pope and then you make this podium rocking

8:11

back or mental that showed Mtv minute doing fifty

8:14

three episodes of the show for hims he V

8:16

and then when they cancel the show we had

8:18

because at that point I had amassed about a

8:20

quarter million dollars in credit card debt after post

8:22

Nine Eleven like I couldn't there was no jobs,

8:25

no production as I kept my comfortable with credit

8:27

card carrying people, credit cards and so on. During

8:29

the course Megamatcher I paid off about fifty thousand

8:31

dollars worth of that debt and had and made

8:33

about fifty grand by like fifty grand. The banged

8:35

by simulate I could either. You.

8:38

Take the city thousand dollars and throw it into that

8:40

bottomless pit. A debt Or. We. Could make

8:42

a movie. Yeah that's logical either. I said

8:44

rights. As about the I'm so into we

8:46

got the idea for super Size Me that's

8:48

what we made and that was your feet

8:50

as it that launched you. Yeah a guy

8:52

who almost kills himself up leading city things

8:55

the island.eyes are about of a window. Yeah

8:57

yeah just like national public bird or to

8:59

station the I wasn't as it is over

9:01

the same so now we have that in

9:03

comedy. Happy do is I We bonded now

9:05

from Armani we have now okay but then

9:07

he went on to do there's there's a

9:10

lot of things I guess the. Point I'm

9:12

trying to make is that yours is your

9:14

vision like are you like Was the what

9:16

the the series called were you have people

9:18

live on comfortably Thirty Distributed says it's efforts.

9:21

Yes that that was. That was kind of

9:23

the mission but it's gonna happen just as

9:25

a sub so that support the idea was

9:27

that was like let's take this guy is

9:29

but a yeah you take somebody. I'm not

9:32

be condescending as it's not bad mannered. A

9:34

sister major me out guys. As a matter

9:36

of. How he

9:38

will me as your question of my what the

9:40

fuck audience would you rather. I do research.

9:45

i work i fucking has his wiki

9:48

page right here i put it been

9:50

like i could have made notes and

9:52

his credit's you know i understood it

9:54

did i get to the kernel of

9:56

what the show was yes okay Moving

10:00

on. No, I

10:02

enjoyed the two episodes I saw. The whole idea was like

10:04

you'd take people and put them in a situation where they'd

10:06

have to kind of question their own beliefs. Like in a

10:08

situation that's kind of antithetical to their own. And it would

10:10

make them very uncomfortable. Right, but it was good, right? Did

10:13

you find, like, people, did you learn from that? Did people

10:15

learn? Did you go back when,

10:17

didn't you put, like, a Christian dude in

10:19

a gay household or something? Yeah, there was

10:21

a guy who ended up living, moving into

10:23

the Castro with a gay guy who was

10:26

completely against homosexuals in the military and gay

10:28

marriage. How did that end up for that guy? It

10:30

was amazing. I could change that guy's life. Like, the two

10:32

guys became friends. Do you follow up with these people? Well,

10:34

there's the best story that came out of that episode. It's

10:36

Ed. There was, you know, the guy guy in the episode,

10:38

Ed, was walking down the street in the Castro. And this

10:40

guy comes up and hugs him after the show. And he's

10:42

like, you know, what is that for? He goes, I got

10:44

to tell you, I came out to my parents seven years

10:46

ago and they threw me out of the house. And they

10:48

haven't called me, they haven't written to me, they won't talk

10:50

to me. And 15 minutes after that show aired last week,

10:52

they called me for the first time. And

10:54

so, which was amazing. So that's fucking

10:57

great. So to have something like that happen

10:59

out of a show is incredible. That

11:01

is incredible. And now what

11:03

are you working on now? Didn't

11:06

you just have one at a festival?

11:08

I just had a film at the

11:10

Toronto International Film Festival called Comic-Con Episode

11:12

4, Fans Hope, that we filmed

11:17

at San Diego Comic-Con last year. Can you spoil

11:19

it a little bit? Has anyone seen it? It's

11:21

a film that's all about kind of the geek-tastic

11:23

universe of San Diego Comic-Con. It's a film that

11:25

we made with Stan Lee and Josh Whedon. We

11:28

followed seven different people into Comic-Con. I

11:30

tell the story of this kind of, you know,

11:33

nerd mecca through their experiences. Nerd

11:35

mecca. And you're satisfied with it?

11:37

You like it? It's great.

11:39

I love the way the film came out. It's spectacular.

11:42

Now what's this project you want me to be part of? There's

11:46

a show that we do. There's a show that we do for

11:48

Hulu called A Day in the Life, which

11:50

we've been doing for, thank you, that guy saw it.

11:53

Thank you. Thanks for watching. That's the power of Hulu.

11:55

That one guy. That's the power of Hulu. Thank you,

11:57

sir. Tell your

11:59

other friend. season

12:02

finale this Wednesday. So

12:07

each episode we spend one day with somebody like from the minute

12:09

they wake up to the minute they go to bed and I

12:11

think you'd be great for the next season. How

12:13

do you guys think? Let's

12:17

build it around an event like

12:19

maybe a doctor's visit or something.

12:22

Or go to Whole Foods with

12:24

me and

12:27

I'll steal something. Or

12:30

maybe we can make the rounds. Look, I'm not going to

12:32

pitch myself to you but I

12:34

appreciate the offer. So

12:36

where do you got to go now? I know you got to leave. I'm

12:39

part of a benefit tonight for Burma Relief that

12:41

I got to go to tonight. I'm part of

12:43

one of the hosts for the thing. Oh, you're

12:46

going to host a segment? No, no. I'm one

12:48

of the people who's hosting this benefit to raise

12:50

money for Burma tonight. What time does that start?

12:52

It started at seven. Now

12:56

I feel guilty. See, I'm not kidding. It's true.

12:58

What do you do to this thing? You

13:00

didn't even dress. No, I'm going to change in the car. I

13:03

got my suit in the car. And

13:06

then are you going to go on stage and make

13:08

a speech about healing? Yeah, exactly. Healy. Really? Healy.

13:11

What are you going to say? I'm going to say we

13:13

should all do our part to pitch it and help. Wow.

13:16

Just very believable. Thank you guys.

13:19

Very believable. Everybody dig deep. Morgan

13:21

Spurlock. Ira

13:24

Glass just gave Morgan a dollar for Burma.

13:27

Thanks a lot, buddy. Good to see you. So

13:30

at the end of that, he said he was

13:32

going to invite me on to A Day in

13:34

the Life, which was

13:37

a TV thing he did, a documentary thing he did. And

13:39

I did it. He made good on that. And

13:42

I did it. On that episode of

13:44

A Day in the Life, he captured me with

13:47

Mindy Kaling. Not

13:49

the whole interview, but her coming and going in a

13:51

few minutes, I think. But there is a

13:53

beat in that episode of her

13:56

leaving my house in her car. And it

13:58

just the back end of her car. just

14:00

like scrapes on

14:02

the bottom of my driveway and I

14:04

always I always

14:06

loved that beat. I don't

14:10

know what to tell you. I'm performing up here

14:12

in Vancouver on Friday June 21st at the Vogue

14:15

Theatre. I'm actually recording this at home in

14:18

California but I will be in Vancouver

14:20

Friday June 21st at the Vogue Theatre.

14:22

I'm in Seattle on Saturday June 22nd

14:25

at the Moore Theatre. I

14:27

don't think it's sold out yet but it's going pretty well.

14:29

The last time I was there, man, that

14:31

was crazy, right? That was when the

14:33

ghost attack happened and the lights

14:35

started going on and off and it was crazy. That

14:38

Moore's got a bit of a

14:41

haunted vibe. In the fall, I'm

14:43

coming to Tucson, Phoenix, Oklahoma City,

14:45

Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Boulder, Colorado,

14:48

Juliet, Illinois, Skokie, Illinois, Grand Rapids,

14:50

Michigan, Sacramento, and Napa, California. None

14:52

of us know the world

14:54

we'll be living in at

14:56

that time, post-November. You

14:59

know, I hope it's still safe to

15:01

perform comedy. We'll see or my

15:04

comedy, I should say. It's certainly going

15:06

to be safe for a certain ilk but

15:08

you can get all

15:10

my dates including the ones from

15:12

the summer that I had to

15:15

reschedule. You can just go to

15:17

wtfpod.com/tour and do

15:19

that. It

15:21

was pretty great to come home for a few days. I think

15:23

this is going to work out okay because

15:26

when I come home, I just lock

15:28

right into the

15:30

life and the patterns and the

15:33

cats and the girlfriend and

15:35

my stuff and

15:37

it definitely grounds me. So I'm glad

15:39

that it functions that way. This episode

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16:48

Get started today. I

16:52

was pretty thrilled to talk

16:54

to Molly Ringwald. And she actually came to see me

16:56

in Montclair, New Jersey. I told her I was performing

16:58

there and she wanted to come and she came out.

17:01

And it was funny because she

17:03

came to the show and after the show she

17:05

was there and I didn't recognize her at all.

17:07

She was wearing these dark glasses and I don't

17:09

see Molly Ringwald that often and she doesn't look

17:11

the same. She looks great. And

17:14

she was like, great show. And I just kept saying thank you.

17:16

And part of my brain was like, I know

17:18

I should know this person. And I'm like, oh

17:20

my God. It was ridiculous. It

17:22

was one of those moments where I'm like, am I getting it? Am

17:25

I getting it? Is dementia happening? Is it?

17:28

Molly is here. She

17:31

played Joanne, the wife of Johnny Carson

17:33

on the recent season of Feud, Capote

17:35

versus the Swans. You can stream

17:37

the entire season right now on Hulu. It was a

17:39

good show. She was great. And

17:41

I was excited to meet her and talk to her. This is

17:43

me and Molly Ringwald. Have

17:47

you ever owned something that inspired you

17:49

to up your game? Well

17:51

for me, honestly, it's my stereo system.

17:53

For years I've wanted this stereo system

17:55

and then at some point I realized

17:57

like, hey, you're saving money. So

18:00

I got a pretty top of

18:02

the line, tube driven stereo system.

18:04

It has changed my life. It's

18:06

not only great for listening to

18:08

music, it's great for me to

18:10

sit there with my guitar while

18:13

I jam or just rock out

18:15

because when we own exceptional things,

18:17

they inspire us to do exceptional

18:19

things. Just like the all new

18:21

Lexus GX, it has an exceptional

18:23

capability that will have you seeing

18:25

possibilities you never knew existed. It's

18:27

advanced technology and luxurious interior mean

18:30

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18:32

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18:34

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18:36

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18:38

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18:40

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18:43

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18:45

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18:47

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18:49

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18:52

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18:54

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18:56

amazing at your Lexus dealer.

19:10

So I watched a

19:12

lot of the views. I

19:16

didn't know a lot about any of that. Where did

19:18

you tap out? I

19:20

went through the first four and then I went in and

19:22

out. I just didn't get it

19:24

done. I didn't really tap out. I find it pretty

19:26

interesting. He's an interesting guy. When

19:30

you have to do a part like that, like

19:32

play Johnny Carson's wife in that world

19:34

and that time era, what

19:37

do you do? Did you read all? Because he

19:39

died with your character. I

19:42

already actually knew a lot

19:44

about Truma Capote because

19:47

coincidentally my first play that

19:50

I ever did when I was three years old

19:52

was a Truma Capote. It

19:54

was the Grass Harp which is based on a book

19:57

or a novella I think of his or story.

19:59

So you had a handle on him when you were

20:01

three? I did. I knew who

20:03

Chuma Capote was at the same time

20:06

as Dr. Seuss. Did

20:08

you meet him? Was

20:10

he dead already? No. No, no, no.

20:12

He was alive. In

20:14

the 70s, I used to watch him on

20:16

Johnny Carson or

20:19

whatever my parents were watching and loaded

20:21

out of

20:23

his mind. I was like, what's

20:25

wrong with them, Mom? He's

20:28

drunk. But I was

20:30

really interested. Just his

20:32

name alone, Chuma Capote, just sounded so

20:34

cool. And so later, when I

20:36

got to the old art, I started to read his

20:38

stuff. And I love

20:41

his writing. I feel like he was really one of the

20:44

greatest American writers there is.

20:47

So I already knew a

20:49

lot about his story. I

20:52

didn't know that much about Joanne, other than

20:54

the last decade, I

20:57

think, they spent together. They

21:00

were really tight. And they

21:02

were sort of outcast together. And apparently, after

21:05

he died, she sort of like guarded

21:07

his ashes, like would walk around with

21:09

his ashes. Really? Yeah. Yeah,

21:12

she was like really, really

21:14

loved him. I think she was really one of

21:16

the only people that seemed to love

21:19

him unconditionally. It's interesting

21:21

that these women

21:23

all really loved him, at least for a

21:25

minute. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how much

21:27

the other women loved him, to be honest.

21:30

I mean, in Bude, they, yeah,

21:32

I don't know. I

21:37

don't really know. I feel like

21:39

they were amused by him. And

21:43

I think that he was a confidant. He

21:46

was a confidant. And I think that he was

21:48

a lot more fun than their husbands. And

21:51

I think that they liked that. But

21:53

I don't really feel

21:55

like they necessarily had

21:58

that much respect for his writing. The

22:00

to Joanne Really Really? Admired

22:03

him as a writer and reader. Wanted

22:05

to facilitate. His writing so

22:07

like alarm just ask you now and

22:09

of the rhythm starting early as cause

22:12

of a acting in general because like

22:14

you did that. The. Pardon Dahmer to

22:16

and he still is. These are. Like

22:18

pretty. Him emotionally have the parts Kind

22:20

of right? Yes, because I thought I thought

22:23

he was actors or but he can prepare

22:25

differently. Gas the like When you're going to

22:27

do somebody likes Dahmer step mom like what

22:29

do you do to have liked Birdie? Birdie

22:31

Start. A You know I

22:33

always start somewhere different depending on

22:36

the character that I'm playing vs.

22:38

ah you know and and usually.

22:41

You. Know sometimes I just understand the

22:43

character immediately like I did this.

22:45

really small. Part in the bear

22:47

Yeah yeah and ah. And.

22:49

It was just a monologue basically and I

22:52

was so well written, I just I felt

22:54

like I understood that. Character through the

22:56

words, through the words. yeah, I had

22:58

an immediate idea about who she was.

23:00

Yeah, I didn't have to like go

23:02

and interview any one. Iraq's airline. I.

23:05

Knew immediately who's who I said I was

23:07

really easy on. you know other people like

23:09

Dahmer I'd like. For me that started that

23:11

that part started with the accents. I had

23:13

to get the accent rise or I talked

23:15

to have friends who was from the area.

23:18

I asked her to literally just read my

23:20

line since her phone you know. Just so

23:22

I could hear I was like don't don't

23:24

act. It led me to hear the accent.

23:26

you know, like I kind of built that

23:28

character around that accent. Or to go.

23:31

no accent down yard to come together. Yeah,

23:33

and then there's other characters said, you know

23:35

as you have to do sort of a

23:37

lot of. Research on he announced bit you know

23:39

if they're love with say drug addicts. I brought

23:42

her in over there a heroin addict. I'm not

23:44

gonna go do heroin but I might go and

23:46

you know talk to people who have the it

23:48

up. yes. So I think it really depends. Yeah

23:50

he announcer yeah like different ways into a cast or

23:52

I think like I overthink go out of things and

23:54

I think like them or idea be talked actors. They've

23:56

all got something they do but there's no set way

23:58

to do it. They go out of

24:01

it is is relatively instincts towards your nights

24:03

completely transform it is. yeah I mean there

24:05

are certain people that can do that things

24:07

but that seems to be a whole other

24:09

level of thing. The yes yes yes I'm.

24:12

Did you have you taken? Only assume you've

24:14

taken a few acting classes. That the years

24:16

ago yeah no. And then I had a

24:18

series of I see and I just kind

24:21

of did Four Seasons of a Guy based

24:23

on me Gap and once I think so

24:25

much of it is being able to be

24:27

present and listen. yeah you know and and

24:29

and I knew I'd be awkward the after

24:31

that the but I'd do it as I

24:34

get out of my system. a nice yeah

24:36

the you're you're a good, you're a good

24:38

listener. I mean you have to be having

24:40

done that yet for so long. The Our:

24:42

you're good at the Iowa assertive yeah, listening

24:45

to people and abstain. And reacting and

24:47

cs yeah, the brits you ever freak

24:49

out like I can't do this role.

24:52

Ah, No

24:54

I don't think south's nearly time

24:57

I freak out I think is

24:59

what I'm doing something and the

25:01

writing is not great and the

25:03

but the writers really super process

25:05

about it that that has happened

25:07

before and that. And that makes

25:09

me freak out a little bit because I think

25:11

I want to make it better and I want

25:13

to be as good as I can and you're

25:16

out letting me do That said, yes and I

25:18

always find that it's the writers that are not

25:20

that great who do that or I like the

25:22

writers that I've. Worked with. Who are you

25:24

know, really gray A were so not

25:26

process about collaborative. Yeah, there were a

25:28

collaborative. Yeah, yeah, you know the I've

25:30

I mean like I think that sometimes

25:32

when you see lines that are clunkers

25:34

or that they don't make emotional sense

25:36

of or they're just not something someone

25:38

would say, it's gonna fuck up your

25:40

ability to stay in the terrorist. yeah

25:42

oh yeah i did this thing once

25:45

i'm not i'm i can see who

25:47

was been in this person was so

25:49

presses about their writing and it made

25:52

absolutely no sense and it ended and

25:54

i didn't know how to act it

25:56

because i i can act something that

25:58

i don't understand myself. It makes

26:01

it really hard to remember the

26:03

lines if you can't in your

26:05

mind get a logic. Yeah, to get a

26:07

through line you know and I and I

26:09

tried and I tried and and this

26:11

person was very reluctant and finally

26:13

I just gave up and I and

26:15

I had to learn it as though it were like

26:17

a foreign language Like I

26:19

had to learn it like it was just kind of like a

26:21

bad song Yeah, you know, but I could remember

26:24

it just by the sound and that was really that

26:26

was really disheartening And have you watched

26:28

you did you were you able

26:30

to watch yourself in it? I don't watch anything Really?

26:33

No ever. Well, I

26:36

mean I have I have When

26:39

I was younger I used to watch stuff and

26:41

then I've gone back and I've watched those like

26:43

early movies that I did With John Hughes like

26:45

with my kids. Yeah as an experience, but no,

26:47

I don't watch I don't watch stuff that I

26:50

do now I mean I will if

26:52

I have to if I go to like a premiere or something like

26:54

that If I'm in it, I

26:56

will but I won't say I enjoy it. I don't enjoy it.

26:58

Why what do you I mean? What's the experience? I Don't

27:03

know I mean it's probably vanity It's probably

27:06

like I have an older face now and

27:08

I'm not used to like it could be

27:10

that but it's not like oh shit I

27:12

didn't nail that one line. Well, it's that too.

27:14

Yeah, that too. I do why they use that

27:16

take. Yeah Yeah, that too. I

27:18

don't know It's just like it's it's I kind of

27:20

got out of the habit and then once you get

27:23

out of the habit Watching

27:25

yourself. I just don't enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah,

27:27

there's other stuff I'd rather be doing than

27:29

watching myself like I already did it, you

27:31

know, why do I need to watch it? Well,

27:33

I just had a realization and talking to you just

27:36

about that now that I watch myself But I think

27:38

it's primarily to be critical. Mmm and

27:40

and you know, that's a part of

27:42

your brain You don't want active anyway.

27:44

Yeah, so if that's all it does

27:46

is reinforce that with the occasional like I did

27:48

All right on that. Yeah, it's not really. Yeah

27:51

I feel like I know when I'm when

27:53

I've been doing it for long enough to where

27:55

I know If if the work

27:57

that I've done is good. Yeah, I can feel it

28:00

Right and then sometimes you know particularly

28:02

on on if you're in a

28:04

series that goes for a long time And it's

28:06

really fast and you know and it's not particularly

28:08

well written Yeah You know you kind

28:10

of know that your work is maybe a little subpar

28:13

and I just like that just breaks my heart Oh,

28:15

yeah, it'll just it's like crazy

28:18

making and I just don't want to do that and you don't know what

28:20

Director is gonna do with it or editor is

28:22

gonna do with it. Yeah out of your control

28:24

Yeah, but you work a lot. You've like

28:27

never really stopped working No,

28:29

I've I've I've been pretty consistent.

28:31

Yeah, and you grew up where

28:34

I grew up in Sacramento Until I

28:36

was Until I was 10.

28:38

I think I would say that

28:43

I know me too But

28:45

now it's like there's there's some pretty cool

28:47

people from Sacramento. I've me Joan

28:50

did well Joan Didion of course worse me

28:53

And now Greta girl. Yeah, and lady

28:55

bird was all Sacramento. Yeah, yeah

28:58

That's not enough. I know Good

29:03

try. Yeah, nice try Sacramento Yeah,

29:06

I grew up there till I was 10 In

29:09

an actually a suburb of Sacramento called

29:11

citrus Heights. Is that nice? It

29:14

does have the distinction now

29:16

of being I grew up like couple miles away

29:18

from where the Golden State Killer lived Oh good

29:20

for you the guy they caught after like 30

29:22

years. Yeah. Yeah He was known

29:24

as the East area rapist though when I was

29:27

growing up. Oh, so they shifted the

29:29

nomenclature. Yeah Yeah, well,

29:31

they found out that he was in

29:33

the next one. Yeah, he was yeah,

29:36

he was an ex-cop Yeah,

29:38

so that's that's the distinction of another

29:40

one to add him to the list. Yeah What

29:46

an amazing place yeah So,

29:49

why'd you guys move? Um, we moved

29:51

when I was 10 my

29:53

dad was a musician and

29:56

Like what kind he was a jazz musician piano

30:00

piano, banjo, bass. He could play

30:02

all that stuff. And yeah, piano

30:04

and little guitar, but piano

30:06

was his main instrument. And was he

30:08

like a real jazz guy? I mean,

30:10

was he in the game? He

30:14

was in the game, but his particular

30:16

kind of jazz was sort of

30:18

like more old-timey jazz. He was

30:21

kind of part of the, you know, like the traditional

30:23

jazz scene in the 70s. He called himself,

30:25

my father died in 21. Sorry.

30:29

Yeah, thanks. Not so long

30:31

ago. Yeah. And yeah, so

30:34

he- Like bebop or hardbop

30:37

or big bass? No, like earlier, earlier,

30:39

earlier in that. Like traditional,

30:41

like Dixieland, traditional, kind

30:43

of like, you know, Louis

30:45

Armstrong, and the same guy. Okay, yeah, sure, sure.

30:47

Oh yeah, yeah. That sort of stuff. And

30:49

he kind of stuck in that? Yeah, he stuck in

30:52

that. That was his, you know, he started when

30:55

he started playing. He grew a beard when

30:57

he was like, I don't know, 15

30:59

years old. My dad was blind too. Yeah. And

31:03

he grew a beard so he could gig when

31:05

he was like 15 years old. I think he

31:07

had his first like band when he was 13 years

31:09

old. Where did he grow up? Sacramento. Oh,

31:11

so yeah, okay. So

31:14

it wasn't like he's from New Orleans or something. No, no.

31:16

He took to that music. No, yeah. And he

31:18

got married when he was, my mom was 19,

31:21

he was 20. And-

31:25

So the beard worked. Yeah.

31:29

And then they had kids

31:31

and he, you know, so he supported the

31:33

family, did whatever, you know, he could. My dad

31:35

like, you know, gigged

31:39

all the time. And, you know, but he didn't

31:41

travel a lot because of the family. So

31:44

like at a restaurant or something? He

31:46

had a regular gig? Yeah, everything, like

31:48

piano bar, like, you know, just anything.

31:50

And then of course like played festivals.

31:52

He was instrumental in starting this big jazz

31:54

festival in Sacramento. But that's kind of how

31:56

I got started was I

31:58

started performing with my dad. at a

32:00

really young age. What

32:03

songs? Well, I

32:05

was big into Bessie Smith. Wow,

32:07

could you belt it out like if you can? Oh yeah, yeah, I

32:09

was a big belter. Yeah,

32:12

that's always impressive out of a kid.

32:15

You're like, where does a kid have that much

32:18

soul? Yeah. But you could just

32:20

mimic it, probably, right? Yeah, I mean, I felt

32:22

it. It was also like, I was really close

32:24

to my dad and so it was a big

32:26

bond connection that we had. Anyway,

32:30

so to answer your question why

32:33

we moved to LA, at that point,

32:35

I think I was 10 years old and I got

32:37

a part in a play

32:39

called Annie. Of course, in LA.

32:42

In LA. So it had left New York. No,

32:45

I live in New York now, but at the time, I left.

32:47

The play had. Oh yeah. So it had its run, it

32:49

was big. That's right. It was the first West

32:52

Coast production. So you're like the second Annie? Well,

32:54

I wasn't Annie, I was one of the orphans. Oh. I

32:57

was part of the ensemble. Who was Annie? A

33:00

girl named Patty Patts. What's she up to? I

33:04

don't know. Don't keep in touch. No. No.

33:08

Yeah, so at the time, I

33:11

think it was thought

33:13

of that we would, I would do that

33:15

and it would be, there would be more

33:17

opportunity for my dad. And so,

33:19

yeah, we moved to LA. And did that work out for

33:22

both of you? Well,

33:24

it worked out for me. Yeah. How

33:26

about your pop? My

33:28

parents didn't really like LA very much. So as soon

33:31

as I, I was the last of three

33:34

kids and. Really? Yeah.

33:37

How old is your oldest, Siv? Well, she's four years older

33:39

than me and my, or three and

33:41

a half, I would say. And my brother

33:43

is two years older. None of them went into the

33:46

arts? They did when they were younger. They

33:48

both were interested in acting, but I

33:50

was the only one that stuck with it. So

33:52

what'd your mom do? My mom? Yeah.

33:55

What did she do now? What did she do when you were growing up?

33:58

She was just a mom. She was just a mom, yeah. If

34:00

she was a stay at home mom and that's.

34:02

Hard life and have a musician dad

34:04

and. And. In in the sense

34:06

of like he couldn't have been. Had.

34:08

Be pretty tight he

34:10

any kids. Yes here and we

34:13

we were like the you know pretty

34:15

middle class that they were in l

34:17

hard hard workers and on my of

34:19

i think i had a great my

34:21

had. Great parents Here are my

34:23

mom still? you know? see around?

34:25

But yeah, I kind of lucked out there. Says

34:28

good skill. Sets

34:30

a Cvs he didn't give. That's yeah,

34:32

that's a yeah because I can be

34:34

a liability for the rest of your

34:37

life. Yeah, they're bad parents, yeah, but

34:39

I'm so after any what happens again

34:41

agents. I got an agent and

34:44

and your ten I'm ah ten

34:46

yeah and so I did that

34:48

in so I was ah will

34:50

sixteen months I did that and

34:52

then in a while I was

34:54

do you know densely you you

34:56

aids out of of doing that.

34:58

Show like you get either dollar?

35:00

Yeah yeah basically seen here have

35:02

gift yeah. Well at

35:04

the time it's really kind. Of heartbreaking his.

35:06

You know when you're little inherent the it's

35:08

all you know is doing this so I'm

35:11

a huge sums your life. I. Did it

35:13

for fifteen months. Or so little that little

35:15

over a year. On and then but

35:17

it it's but I did get an aids and

35:19

and saw the started a dizzying for sauce and

35:21

then I got. A.

35:24

Television series right after that. so I had

35:26

like a week off and on I went

35:28

right into an odd television series as a

35:30

regular. The Facts supplies the ios app per

35:32

year for some that was a big show.

35:35

That was a big so ah I was just

35:37

I just said the first season of that and.

35:39

More happened here. Ah. Ah

35:42

they have. They decided they wanted

35:44

to make it for girls instead

35:46

of like that. Average and way it

35:49

started out with like and around twelve girls are I

35:51

know I don't remember how many underwear and then they

35:53

wanted to narrow it down to four and originally I

35:55

was can be one of the for yeah. And

35:57

then they changed their minds and then

35:59

they are. They. Basically

36:01

said that they didn't want me to be a regular

36:03

size is kind of let down from that. I'm

36:06

sort of a natural transition from any bright

36:08

and for another of were yeah it was

36:10

all it was All girls were yeah a

36:12

lot of them. yeah the I'd imagine watch

36:14

it I don't I don't but I members

36:16

the fact of it. Yeah yeah now like

36:19

what is. So that's like your first big

36:21

part in you get pushed out be out

36:23

of year by our view experience. Of

36:25

the heartbreak. Devalue our oh it

36:28

sought. And is going out on on

36:30

this all time to. I was going

36:32

out on yeah was a

36:34

dissenting and on ah you

36:36

know, adjusting for commercial. Yeah,

36:38

I books one commercial for California

36:40

Raisins Real and they were the

36:42

dancing reasons now now or that

36:44

now. I was like a baby sitter talking.

36:46

About how you know Ray. Raises their

36:48

natures candy I saw. remember the Hall in L

36:51

Vis monologue that I had the i'll never forget

36:53

it, I'll be at my desk. Bad at all

36:55

on all builder side. Over the years to put

36:57

are you tombstone hands with. The

37:00

Reason Monologue. Else

37:02

awesome I'm so yeah I did

37:04

that and then ah and I

37:06

kept I disney in and then

37:08

I'm I got really really close

37:10

on a movie called Suit the

37:12

Moon with I'm Dying Keaton on

37:15

and then I. I didn't get

37:17

that. Interview with her. Now now

37:19

I didn't buy it. I I really wanted

37:21

bad and I'm remember not getting that and

37:23

has been. So heartbroken. What he likes?

37:25

thirteen? or. Fourteen. Ah,

37:28

thirteen him. And then ah

37:30

and then right after that I got

37:32

my first movie which was Campus. With

37:34

palms are ski That's crazy. That's a

37:36

crazy man. Yeah, and the is basically

37:39

an independent movie. Be a. That.

37:41

Would never be made. Now for you know

37:43

losers. He was kind of a characterized. Oh

37:45

yeah it does. You know him but

37:47

I didn't Yeah he was gray I

37:49

loves him be I was the he

37:51

was really a good director and it

37:53

was you know we we filmed for.

37:56

A month in New York and than two months in

37:58

Greece and then a month. and since. It on

38:00

Italy and I mean it's a yell.

38:02

It was. Crazy in a movie like that

38:04

would never be made. Now. And

38:06

it's you are. Why do. I

38:09

imagine most along the way did you ever

38:11

take any formal acting training? Little

38:13

that I I. I don't know

38:15

if I'd had any acting training

38:17

before I did that movie and

38:19

the I had like a couple

38:21

classes or something. Yeah, but most

38:23

of the acting I kind of

38:26

learned on the job. So

38:28

I'm here. You're working with some pretty heavy hitters

38:30

their death, and you're old enough to know that.

38:32

While I didn't really know i may, I didn't know who any.

38:35

Wide right Thirteen and you don't really know. Sets

38:37

are on Qazvin. His in your thirties. So

38:39

where was the impact or mean like you and

38:41

general ensue? I mean like how our our. Taste

38:43

My Life He aimed at that before then

38:45

I was. I was pretty sure I didn't

38:48

know that it's gonna be a singer of

38:50

yes or has gonna be you know, a

38:52

dancer or I like a new I was

38:54

going to. Do. Something by it.

38:56

Or theater. Yeah, because I'd started to

38:58

do theater. But

39:01

I was absolutely sure, one hundred percent that

39:03

I wanted to make movies after that. That.

39:05

An assist it was. It was the

39:08

best experience of my life and it

39:10

was life changing. But I also thought

39:12

that every. Movie. Was gonna be like that

39:14

where I know when you have this incredible

39:16

experience you have boy girl he had to

39:18

spend time with them with cast of and

39:20

oh. Yeah, I mean it was. we're

39:22

in Greece. It was supposed to be

39:25

an island but it was films arm

39:27

and the Peloponnese says. He on you

39:29

know southern Greece. Ah very remote

39:31

via and it was just like

39:33

it was like. It

39:35

was like a summer camp in our was

39:37

completely wild and transformative and I really kind

39:39

of grew. I went from. Being a little

39:41

girl, to being a teenager you know, and

39:43

that and that summer and your did your

39:45

parents have to go one of them. My

39:48

mom went with me. And. Then ah,

39:50

and then my dad and my arm.

39:52

My siblings came after so they got

39:55

to be there. And but I can

39:57

imagine my general and says like for mean

39:59

sea so. She's amazing! and

40:02

we a little terrifying to

40:04

assess assess the issue is

40:06

is. There was. There is something.

40:08

there's something that's always been very

40:11

imperious about. Ah, you know she

40:13

says has this presence and and

40:15

us you know I was. I've

40:17

felt very comfortable with with John.

40:20

Like John was fine and here he. Was

40:22

it like a guy? was he was like

40:24

a kid. be a nice but he just

40:27

stop. It he was of

40:29

is very comfortable. I just felt so comfortable.

40:31

With him and with with Janna I was a

40:33

little bit more on. I don't know that it

40:35

kind of worse because I was supposed to be

40:37

kind of like and dads girl. And India

40:39

be pl. Ah, and then

40:41

Susan Sarandon was. and it. Sale And

40:43

now I am. So much intensity. Yeah,

40:45

And N Ral Julia and will

40:48

remain incredible cast on. A metaphor.

40:50

You know there is a masters class. Pretty

40:52

much. I mean, that's how I didn't even

40:55

know what what ad libbing was. I

40:57

didn't know what improvisation was and

40:59

he urged our yeah, we were.

41:02

We had a two week rehearsal

41:04

period Pr and we are. You

41:06

know there's a scene after, you

41:08

know. Sounds. Character has caught

41:10

his wife china Iran as character

41:13

in in an Affair and they're

41:15

having sort of like this argument,

41:17

this marriage ending argument and I.

41:20

Kind. Of become involved since become

41:22

part of the. Margin. America's Readies

41:24

Movies. Yeah and and and I had

41:26

memorize all my lines i grew up

41:29

before my first stay were allied, memorize

41:31

the entire script and I was super

41:33

percent prepared. and then this scene is

41:35

happening and all of a sudden all

41:37

the lines are different and John says

41:39

toy and off and like talking about

41:41

and I had nuts and I just

41:43

panicked and I thought like as it.

41:46

Did I? What did I do and of course I

41:48

thought like you know I did something wrong ago he

41:50

now and so I get the right spur. Of yeah

41:52

I yeah and so I I did

41:54

the scene and then I am. And

41:57

then I said i'm I have to go now and walk

41:59

down. There's or my dad was inclined to know

42:01

is a laugh and I burst into tears and

42:04

I was like convinced that was gonna be fired.

42:06

You know that was it were an agenda was

42:08

the one that took me aside and said you

42:10

know to so you know John will say everything

42:12

that's not and scratch your that's what he does

42:14

but he'll always give you your lead and line

42:16

Hill always gimme that line. And when. You hear

42:19

you have to jump in rice and

42:21

that's how I learned when improvisation was

42:23

and I never forgot. and it was

42:25

great to get out. but is it

42:27

was like a little it was a

42:30

little scary. Yeah, I imagine this isn't

42:32

a intense baptism in Philly on those

42:34

two. Yeah, and I saw it like

42:36

I was. So you're in the Criterion

42:38

Closet use of Fellini. Came by the

42:40

set. yeah. He. Came by and

42:43

I remember like there was a ceiling on

42:45

the Sat. like Paul was really the of.

42:47

He adored saline a them as

42:49

favorite filmmaker. And they were I think sign

42:51

up close and yeah, he came by and police

42:53

the minors and the top of the had I

42:55

have no idea I'd never seen. A Fellini movie?

42:58

Yeah, when did you start watching for remove?

43:00

I we asked her I here in Tampa s

43:02

it was like I went and watched every cast

43:04

of Eddie's movie that I could see. And I

43:06

have why we were doesn't Yeah, Yeah, wasn't

43:08

that easy to. Watch you know

43:11

the films of those people here you

43:13

know to for am and I'm. But.

43:15

Yeah that that was really my my

43:18

education. So what happens after

43:20

Tempus? After campus. Ah,

43:22

I did a couple of

43:24

me, you know, unforgettable movies.

43:27

Space. Center advances in the forbidden

43:29

zone. And really it's

43:31

Saxons says i. Did

43:34

i'm yeah some some movies that

43:36

were not that great arm and

43:38

then I did and then I

43:40

did sixteen candles and I was.

43:42

Sixteen, The life changer

43:44

analyzed. Yeah, everything turns. Yeah.

43:48

I. Mean I knew I know you've i talk about of

43:50

a lot but I mean. That.

43:52

Must have been. Pretty. Crazy.

43:55

Yeah, I mean it was. He was still a

43:57

guy. Didn't know that my life is. Going to say.

44:00

But it you know it definitely did I

44:02

I never thought that I was That

44:05

everything was gonna happen that fast that everything was

44:07

gonna You know explode like you never know that

44:09

that like like, you know, yeah like your podcast

44:12

You never knew that it was gonna take off

44:14

You're just kind of like doing things and doing

44:16

what's interesting to you And then yeah all of

44:18

a sudden something catches on and you're like, oh,

44:20

okay And do you look I mean, I know you've talked

44:22

about it, but I mean, do you look back at those

44:25

movies? Do you

44:27

have conflicting feelings about them? Yeah

44:29

Yeah, I've written about my

44:32

feelings about them. I've written a

44:34

couple articles. Yeah in the New Yorker Yeah,

44:38

I mean I still love them I will have

44:41

a lot of affection

44:43

for them I still feel like they're

44:45

there's something important about them and they

44:47

also still They

44:50

still I mean judging from just

44:52

my kids reaction because there's nothing

44:54

that can make my kids put down their phone But they

44:56

didn't they didn't pick up their phone

44:58

while they were watching it and it's not because they

45:00

were being polite to me I mean, they don't worry

45:02

about that. Yeah, they just honestly Were

45:05

intrigued so he captured something about

45:07

teenage ability that is kind of Universal

45:11

I think so. Yeah, and

45:13

but like it's weird because even my

45:15

you know Recollection

45:18

or not my recollection but my

45:20

knowledge of you being on my radar You

45:23

know, I mean there was that period there was

45:25

like you were everywhere and then

45:27

there was a matter of time Then it's sort of

45:29

like oh, yeah What has she been

45:31

doing but you never stopped working? No, I

45:33

never stopped working But I did move out

45:36

of the country which kind of slowed things

45:38

down a little bit And I would kind

45:40

of come back and I would do stuff. Where'd you

45:42

go? I went to France Just to

45:44

live just to live. Yeah, and

45:46

you why I Feel

45:49

like I'd been working for a long time and

45:51

so wait, so how when did you do that

45:53

after what I was I was I was

45:56

I was 24. Okay, so You did all these

45:58

movies with all these. These. Guys.

46:02

Like. The Pickup Artists. I mean, you're working

46:04

with Downey at that age? I

46:06

were to ten that I'd miss. I think nineteen Twenty

46:08

one I did that. And that was

46:10

at did you? Were you concerned

46:12

about him as. Like

46:15

concerned about emphasis of yeah I was

46:17

a little. I was the I always

46:19

thought he was super talented. I had

46:21

wanted him to play a part in

46:23

in Pretty in Pink He was that

46:25

he was that guy. That I wanted

46:27

for for the part that Jon Cryer

46:30

ended up playing who was great. I

46:32

mean nothing against on but but yeah

46:34

I. Always thought that that down he. Was

46:36

really super talented but he.

46:38

Was incredibly self destruct as and you

46:40

know which I mean. He's been really super

46:42

honest about an hour for your own answer.

46:45

Honestly out his. His addiction issues

46:47

and yeah, that was clearly

46:49

going. On the ah ah.

46:52

And lights. And what about the crew

46:54

from the Breakfast Club? Because I remember

46:56

there was a period like so that's

46:58

like eighty five, some pretty young, i'm

47:00

relatively grown up, i'm in college, but

47:02

that movie resonated with everybody because of

47:04

the sort of archetypes if they captured.

47:06

and I wasn't that far away from

47:09

high school, but it seemed to be

47:11

like a cultural identifier for like is

47:13

it seemed like everybody and all these

47:15

actors you know somehow or another whatever

47:17

shift you made. Kind. Of

47:19

enabled you to have a life of

47:22

me. Yes, Yeah, but I feel

47:24

like. I. Really needed

47:26

to. Get out as.

47:29

America in order to kind of. A.

47:31

Halves. My. You

47:33

know, I'd been working for so long that

47:36

I didn't have any. Experience.

47:38

Of what it was like to be a

47:40

person. A person. You know

47:42

that that was always been. Look

47:44

dad. And but look at a

47:47

very certain way. Yeah, Like. Your

47:49

that of veer that girl. Yeah.

47:51

Yeah. i i was that girl

47:53

for a while and i felt like

47:56

i needed said know what it felt

47:58

like to not be that girl and

48:00

to just kind of figure

48:02

out what it is that I wanted

48:04

to do. I had stopped really, you

48:07

know, also I wasn't really getting,

48:09

I was in a really

48:11

weird, I was so young that

48:14

I didn't really feel like I was getting, I

48:18

was too young for everything. It's really funny

48:21

how you go like you're too young for everything

48:23

and then all of a sudden like you're too

48:25

old, but like at that time I was too

48:27

young. And once they couldn't type cast you in a

48:30

way then, okay,

48:32

so like it's, there's sort of, there's something,

48:35

I'm not the first to say, but there there

48:37

is something tragic about the trajectory

48:39

of a lot of child actors. Yeah. Because

48:42

it doesn't, you know, either they change

48:44

physically or they don't really have the

48:46

goods as they get older, to continue

48:48

working in at a level and

48:51

sometimes it's just, it gets pretty

48:53

sad. Yeah. But you avoided that.

48:55

I did, I did. Did you miss

48:59

it at first though? No,

49:01

I mean I went to to France and I

49:03

was, you know, I fell in love with France

49:05

and then I fell in love with somebody in

49:07

France and it

49:10

was, it was, it was great.

49:12

I really feel like I, it was

49:15

something that I needed to do. I, you know,

49:17

I learned how to write. I learned how to

49:20

speak French. I learned, you didn't know

49:22

before you, I spoke a little French cause I did go

49:24

to a French school, but I was also working

49:26

all the time when I was in high school. So, you

49:28

know, in order to get good at a language, you really

49:31

have to do it every day. And so,

49:33

I mean, I, I did speak a little bit of

49:35

French, but not enough to really, I didn't consider

49:37

myself fluent. And you stay on top of it

49:39

now? Yeah. Every day. Really? Yeah. How

49:42

so? How do you do that? I

49:44

do Duolingo every day. Cause you just

49:46

don't want to lose it. Yeah. I mean,

49:48

I, I also translate

49:50

books too. I translated a couple books from,

49:54

from English to French. You

49:56

just get hired for that. You're available for that. I

49:58

mean, that's not like a, like

50:01

a celebrity turn to be a

50:03

translator. No, it's not. And it's

50:05

not very lucrative either. No,

50:08

you know, it really was something

50:11

that a friend of mine who

50:13

was in, at the time she was an editor at

50:15

Scribner, I've also written books, you know,

50:17

of my own as well. It

50:20

was her idea and she

50:23

had acquired this book and she knew that

50:25

I spoke French because she had edited an

50:27

essay that I had written when she was

50:29

an editor at a magazine. Yeah. And

50:33

she said, I have this crazy idea and,

50:35

you know, why don't you translate this book?

50:37

And I said, no, I was a horrible

50:39

student. I put all my focus into speaking

50:42

French, so I have a really good accent. But

50:45

I was like, there's no way. And she's like, well,

50:47

I really think you can do it. And I said, OK, well, I'll

50:50

read a little bit of it. And if I think I

50:52

can do it and if I like the book, then maybe,

50:54

but don't count on it. And then I don't know, I

50:56

started to read it and I thought this how

50:59

it just seemed

51:01

like something that would be cool that I would enjoy

51:03

doing. And so I did it. And

51:05

and it's a really good book and it becomes

51:07

sort of like a it's like a gay

51:10

love story that in the 80s. It's

51:12

called Lie With Me. And

51:15

you translated from English to

51:17

French? From French to English. Oh, OK. Yeah.

51:20

Because like certain French words have several different meanings. Yeah.

51:23

And so you have to kind of there's a poetry to it. Yeah. Yeah.

51:27

So it's got to help you as a writer in general. Yeah, it does. It

51:29

helps you as a writer. It's

51:31

like an incredible mental

51:34

challenge for me. And

51:37

I discovered that it was like a it

51:40

was like a puzzle. Yeah. You

51:42

know, people can kind of space out and do a

51:44

puzzle and they can like hyper focus. Yeah. Yeah.

51:48

And it kind of makes you only think about

51:50

that. Like that's that kind of translating for me

51:52

is like that. And it feels

51:54

like I don't know, like you're

51:56

like unlocking all these doors. Yeah. I

51:58

think how am I going to get across? This that like

52:00

I can't you can't literally just translate.

52:03

Word for word, you have to like Find the

52:05

poetry and right in the museo. Yeah, there's all

52:07

these different ways that you can. Do it

52:09

their seats and open this door. You

52:11

can open that door with. you know,

52:13

why are there says something that's really

52:15

I'm yeah. meditative, For me that's great.

52:17

Will go before we go out of

52:19

a Hollywood to France and earnest with

52:21

to in terms of. Like.

52:24

So many that generating that kind of

52:26

fucked up and you know and if

52:29

you're coming up against. You.

52:31

Know I. I imagine it. Hollywood

52:34

was a fairly small town still then

52:36

really? Yo. In terms of

52:38

the the business, so you're like

52:40

you're like me coming up against

52:42

all these old actors in there's

52:44

this culture here. I mean was

52:46

air didn't feel menacing. You

52:49

know I. Never. Really

52:51

sounds like I was part

52:53

of that mean eighty when

52:56

I was in Hollywood just

52:58

because. To. Sit as I was

53:00

so young nearly you now and and basically

53:02

kind of a sigh Introverted percent are going

53:04

on like I wasn't into, kind of like

53:06

going out to clubs and we are like

53:09

I feel like I'm a little i more

53:11

social now that I was than riot I

53:13

you know I was just as is too

53:15

young and right and I it was a

53:17

it was awkward. You're lucky thing you're taking

53:19

revenge. Ever gotten to some sort of horrible

53:21

situation? Oh. I was taken advantage

53:23

as. Assess Assess Assess the second.

53:26

You can be a young actress, their

53:28

knowledge and nine and I get out

53:31

that not have predators around. I mean.

53:33

Fear That says, you know, but

53:35

I, I, I wasn't I wasn't

53:37

raped by Harvey Weinstein, sir. I'm

53:39

grateful for that beer. But I

53:41

also did write an essay for

53:43

The New Yorker which was like

53:45

not all Harvey Weinstein like is

53:47

not the only once on. Yeah.

53:50

There is there is. I was definitely an.

53:52

Unquestionable. Situations.

53:55

Yeah but I I do have

53:57

an incredible on. Survival.

54:00

Think the and and a pretty

54:02

big super ego and kind of

54:04

managed to sodas figure out a

54:06

way to protect myself or it's

54:09

good by. The yeah it

54:11

was. It's it. can be harrowing. And

54:15

me and I have a twenty year old

54:17

daughter now who is going into the same

54:19

professor and even though I did everything I

54:21

could convince her to do something else vs.

54:24

On end you know it's it's

54:26

it's hard. like my parents and

54:28

know anything about. The. It

54:30

as your business really leisure when you're a

54:33

traditional. Jazzy this and in L. Yeah, he was

54:35

an entertainer, but they didn't Neither one of them

54:37

knew about. You know, Hollywood, right?

54:39

So they didn't really know exactly

54:41

what. But we're getting into.

54:44

They just bought like oh I have this town's

54:46

kin everyone. Likes or in this is grade

54:48

sure now. Beer arm without setting her

54:50

up for life was that term but

54:52

was that did that? Compel.

54:54

You was that one the reasons to leave. Was

54:57

a u cel like. You. Know. It.

55:00

Was mildly dangerous. No,

55:03

I didn't really make that choice to

55:05

move to France. I went there on

55:08

on a movie and I was supposed

55:10

to come back. He I went and

55:12

like may I think it was and

55:14

I'm supposed to come back I your

55:17

I had I'd finally I applied to

55:19

college because I thought well okay I

55:21

I guess I should do that because

55:23

I'm not really reading anything. That's that

55:26

I'm loving. Right now. So this go to college

55:28

here. On and and then I

55:30

went to France. I just fell in

55:32

love with France and. Felt amazing.

55:34

Know cowards. Know college?

55:37

I didn't really know. That I could

55:39

have differed and come back and gone to

55:41

college so I just decided not to to

55:43

go and you saw in love and France.

55:45

And. Then I fell in love with France. and

55:47

then I fell in love in France. With

55:49

a guy with. A guy and ah and yeah

55:51

I just decided to stay with my

55:53

it was my only residence. for on

55:55

analyses years and will kind of like

55:58

were how are you approaching acting

56:00

at that point? Well,

56:03

I I would come

56:05

back and you know, I would I would

56:08

Like I don't know. I'm trying to

56:10

think of like the first thing I did after I moved

56:12

I think I got a part in the stand which

56:15

was a like a long television series

56:17

I never come back and do that was that the

56:19

apocalyptic one. That was the apocalyptic one Wow When

56:23

did but you did like? Well, that's right. You did that.

56:26

When did you do King Lear? I

56:28

did King Lear actually before I moved

56:30

to France. I did that when I was 19

56:36

19 or 20 that was like a crazy

56:38

odd production. I was really crazy Yeah, that was

56:40

a Jean-Luc Godard film. So like head. Did you

56:42

know who he was when you're going into that?

56:44

Um, I knew

56:47

a little bit about him I

56:50

think Not much though,

56:52

I mean I knew I knew about

56:54

sort of like more like the Jean-Luc

56:56

Godard style Sure, but I

56:58

didn't really know that much but my agent

57:01

at the time said oh, he's an important

57:03

filmmaker And so I think after

57:05

that after they said that he wanted

57:07

to meet with me. I watched breathless And

57:10

I was really By

57:12

87 he's doing different things, right? Yeah,

57:14

I mean it was pretty experimental right

57:17

very experimental Yeah, and what was it

57:19

like working with that guy? It

57:22

was it was really cool.

57:25

It was like it was different. It was

57:27

weird It was like that. I'd never done

57:29

a movie That

57:31

had such a small crew. I'd never

57:33

done something that was like so low-budget

57:36

That didn't yeah, it was it

57:39

was wild. It was only like I was only there

57:41

for I think I

57:43

don't know like two weeks or something and like

57:45

was he did you get the sense of

57:47

genius or did you like was he? Like

57:50

how was he as a person? He

57:53

was introverted and and and

57:56

like sort of a prankster. Yeah a

57:58

little bit. I didn't know exactly.

58:00

I didn't honestly, I didn't really understand

58:02

a lot of what he was saying.

58:06

But I thought he was interesting. I thought

58:09

he was funny and

58:11

interesting and weird and like

58:14

I just I was

58:16

interested. Yeah. And I liked doing

58:18

stuff like that. I liked doing

58:21

stuff that wasn't necessarily expected

58:23

at that time. And you never watched that

58:26

one. I know I have seen that. Oh

58:28

yeah. It's beautiful. It's actually one of the most

58:30

beautiful movies I've done. Really? Yeah. I didn't know.

58:32

There was no wardrobe person. There was no makeup

58:34

person. It was one of the first questions I

58:36

asked was okay well where's the, you know, who

58:38

can I talk to and they were like there's

58:40

no wardrobe. There's no makeup. He's gonna come by

58:42

your room and just like pick out your clothes.

58:44

You know and then

58:47

he like came by and I had done my makeup and he

58:49

was like no that's too much. Take it all off. All off.

58:53

Wow. Yeah. It was an

58:55

interesting experience. Right. Wow. I

58:57

wrote an article about that for the New Yorker too. You've

59:00

done a lot of writing for the New Yorker.

59:02

I've written yeah three four pieces

59:04

for the New Yorker. Recently?

59:07

Yeah. I wrote that well

59:10

about a year ago after he died.

59:12

It was sort of like a kind of

59:14

an homage to him. So is this gonna

59:16

you think you're gonna do a

59:19

book of essays or? Actually I'm

59:21

working on not a

59:23

book of essays but I'm working on a memoir

59:25

right now about the years in Paris. Specifically?

59:28

Yeah. The Paris years. And

59:31

did you marry that guy, right? I

59:33

did. I married

59:35

that guy. I

59:38

married him and we probably

59:40

should you know I did that thing where

59:42

you know you're with someone and I think it was

59:44

like seven years and we should have split

59:47

up instead we got married. I've done

59:49

that twice. Oh really? Yeah. I

59:53

think it would more for me what was it was like

59:55

three and a half four years and then got married and

59:58

then we hit seven and you know yeah I think. Went.

1:00:00

Wrong. Yeah yeah, I did the

1:00:02

seventy or thing and then it took

1:00:04

me another like three years to get

1:00:07

out of it. says i I. Didn't.

1:00:09

I wanted to be nice and you

1:00:11

know I know it's hard. I mean

1:00:13

he, he was a significant relationship in

1:00:16

my life. Our he do. He

1:00:18

is a writer. Good writer. I

1:00:20

don't know cause he wrote in France and at

1:00:22

that time. I couldn't Really Judson, we have now

1:00:25

in our Melbourne. You know friends. You have

1:00:27

not gone back. You

1:00:29

know, Now I'm or

1:00:31

guy you know, Rounders? Yeah.

1:00:33

ah. By. It's

1:00:35

the I took me a little while to

1:00:37

get out of it, but we did get

1:00:40

divorced when I was. Ah, by that time

1:00:42

I'd I'd gotten together. With with

1:00:44

my husband. And

1:00:46

I was eight months pregnant. Wrote

1:00:48

some You Got Divorced The I was

1:00:50

eight months pregnant with my my elder

1:00:53

daughter. Do. You know, While.

1:00:55

I was pretty clear I was eight

1:00:57

months pregnant. assefa yeah so it's the

1:00:59

era's It was clear that was over

1:01:02

it. I think by that point a

1:01:04

air was pretty clear that it was

1:01:06

that it was over and. But

1:01:08

we're still friends now. I really took

1:01:10

I took a while to. but yeah

1:01:12

actually the funny thing is is he's

1:01:14

translating. From English to

1:01:17

France. And. I'm translating from

1:01:19

France, The English. And. So we we text

1:01:21

back and forth sometimes for me. Ask you

1:01:23

know what? What's the best way to say this? Or what

1:01:25

are you. You know what really worried

1:01:27

me ever again? A curve working for

1:01:29

higher? Yeah. That's nice. Yeah, yeah,

1:01:32

I mean the prisoners with for seven years

1:01:34

you'd never talk to me again. Really hard

1:01:36

for us, but it's weird when you don't

1:01:38

have children with people the are beholden to

1:01:40

that you have to, That's right. But I've

1:01:42

I've had to accept the fact that I'm

1:01:44

just I was just a bad sees yeah,

1:01:47

I'm vice. See.

1:01:49

Says ever the of kids. never

1:01:51

one. and I'm not really, I

1:01:53

don't. I. Don't ever like I am

1:01:55

me. I think about. That a lot

1:01:58

like because I very consciously. Didn't.

1:02:00

Have them. And. I don't

1:02:02

ever think I should haves and I

1:02:04

don't know that I would have been

1:02:06

a good or bad father, but I

1:02:09

do know that I'm a panicky me,

1:02:11

a pretty neurotic self involved person. and

1:02:13

yeah, my brother's guys, you kids and

1:02:15

I. I don't regret it. Over have

1:02:17

a year I have three and. A

1:02:21

success. It's it's. Well that

1:02:23

depends on the day now now I'm

1:02:25

really happy that I had kids but

1:02:27

I always wanted them. I mean I

1:02:29

am flight from that I'm was one.

1:02:31

Of those people that year in kindergarten and

1:02:34

was like thinking about it. Yeah, and by

1:02:36

the time I was time, I had kids

1:02:38

on the later sides. Yeah, ah. But

1:02:40

yeah, I was one of them.

1:02:43

I'm glad to have them. but

1:02:45

but you know it's it's hard.

1:02:47

Like my my elders is some

1:02:49

says twenty. Yes, Ah, I see it

1:02:51

as. On around now I'm fights

1:02:53

the other two. Are fourteen and

1:02:55

know like you're still in the

1:02:57

and some very much and as

1:02:59

a access and what's it what's

1:03:01

your husband is easy rider him

1:03:03

he's a writer and as editor

1:03:05

what kind of like movie ratings

1:03:07

and of fiction and nonfiction Good

1:03:09

yeah he's very the runner most

1:03:11

good theory writers mouse yeah I

1:03:13

do shown the stuff. All. The

1:03:15

time Real Yeah. we we so

1:03:18

each other on everything like you

1:03:20

know he He, he added me,

1:03:22

I earned him and yeah and

1:03:24

I secured. Site Yeah, it's it's It's nice

1:03:26

that he's a really good writer because that would

1:03:28

really suck. Tip: somebody who is not a good

1:03:30

writer, I don't know if I could do that.

1:03:32

First guy you can read so small that

1:03:34

was our dowdy yeah S S S yeah

1:03:36

the I think those things that I think

1:03:39

that's a real thing if you he. He

1:03:41

and the matter of because how does that

1:03:44

not turned an ugly yeah ever see why.

1:03:46

We did you see that movie with with

1:03:48

To Live With tried that I can remember

1:03:50

it as called. I really love her bits.

1:03:52

It's the movie where she's a writer and

1:03:54

her husband doesn't like her book and sci

1:03:57

fi. Oh yeah. New movie? A yeah, How of

1:03:59

centers movie now? Yeah. Oh, that

1:04:01

was great. Yeah. It was

1:04:03

really great and really funny and that idea

1:04:05

that you could be with someone and not

1:04:07

like their writing, it would be

1:04:10

horrible. It was an interesting thing. Nicole

1:04:12

Hov Center makes great movies. I've

1:04:14

interviewed her before. Yeah. She's interviewed

1:04:16

everyone. Yeah, a lot of people. Interesting

1:04:20

director because it really

1:04:22

challenges that idea. Can you be with somebody?

1:04:25

Is it over-comable? You know, it's interesting. Yeah.

1:04:28

Yeah, like what is it that you

1:04:30

love about a person? Yeah. You

1:04:32

know? Yeah. I mean,

1:04:34

if you love a person, you should love their soul

1:04:37

and it shouldn't matter, but it matters

1:04:39

to me. Yeah. Like it really matters.

1:04:41

And also, it has so much to

1:04:43

do with what was attractive about

1:04:45

him in the first place. Right. Was

1:04:47

his taste in books and his writing.

1:04:49

Yeah. I found that really

1:04:51

attractive and appealing. So yeah, it has a

1:04:54

lot to do with our connection. Yeah. Well,

1:04:56

yeah. I mean, that's tricky. Yeah.

1:05:01

I think ultimately it's going to come

1:05:03

down to more practical things, I think, with

1:05:05

the love. Yeah. I

1:05:07

think you're right. I think you're right.

1:05:09

Yeah. I've lost a certain amount

1:05:11

of faith in the soul business. But

1:05:16

like, so when did you start to kind

1:05:18

of like, you realize that, I

1:05:20

mean, acting never became

1:05:22

unsatisfying, but you just wanted- Well,

1:05:24

it did. It did for a minute

1:05:26

because I wasn't getting like

1:05:29

material that I was moved by.

1:05:33

And you can only rise above your material

1:05:35

so much. And

1:05:37

then eventually it's like, there's just

1:05:39

certain material that you can't rise

1:05:41

above. And it's just, yeah, that

1:05:44

felt soul killing. It felt soul

1:05:46

crushing to me. Yeah. And I

1:05:48

talked to the actors, character actors and stuff. I

1:05:50

mean, it's just, it's part of the gig at

1:05:52

a certain level that you're just going

1:05:54

to like judge a job on

1:05:56

like, it's okay. Where does it

1:05:58

shoot? How long? Yeah and

1:06:01

I'll. Just. Get it over with. Yeah

1:06:03

N n who's gonna see it? And is

1:06:05

there a way for like me to do

1:06:07

this a little off the radar? My

1:06:09

oh one sees this Me I would. Have

1:06:12

this. Is it possible to we put that mic

1:06:14

on track That I said no one sees the

1:06:16

movies Yeah. Yeah, it's hard.

1:06:20

You know and then once you have kids in

1:06:22

a family Ike I made the choice that

1:06:24

I wanted to have a family and then you

1:06:26

know you have these kids and like kids need

1:06:28

dental care and go worried. Yeah, you gotta work

1:06:31

and you gotta hustle and he got it yet

1:06:33

else and you know you can only be

1:06:35

it's It's really easy to be super picky. When

1:06:37

it's when it's just you and yeah, only

1:06:39

one that you have to worry about. But

1:06:41

when when you. Have a family like

1:06:44

you have to be. I'm less picky.

1:06:46

All right. so. Ah yes,

1:06:48

hi, I'm split to answer your question.

1:06:51

yeah I did Kind of question whether

1:06:53

or not I wanted to continue acting

1:06:55

with as I don't find it enjoyable

1:06:57

at all. To. Do.

1:07:00

To. Do it when that when the materials not good,

1:07:02

year when the people. Are good and not

1:07:04

only do I not find it not

1:07:07

enjoyable what I find it. I'm really

1:07:09

of settings and I think it's because

1:07:11

I like it so much and I

1:07:13

know what it can be that to

1:07:15

to kind of do city work. For non

1:07:17

document going to be stuck on your for we are

1:07:19

two months. Yeah, or or even longer you

1:07:21

can. You know, like now if you commit

1:07:24

to doing as a Tv series usually they

1:07:26

make you. Sign. For like I

1:07:28

Zero five. Seven or seven years, you know.

1:07:30

And and now I'm. Thinking like eleven years

1:07:32

unless you did what I mean you have

1:07:35

to. yeah it's are you know it's a

1:07:37

series the Aphrodite that the sad part about

1:07:39

that as as if you do that going

1:07:41

into your it's best thing that did happen

1:07:43

as this goes one in out. yeah. Yeah,

1:07:46

but you know it also might be really good

1:07:48

to. And on not a liar I think the our

1:07:50

he's a funny guy will soon as he did he

1:07:52

write it melts. Did. Who wrote it? Was

1:07:55

written by Gun Him Jason. Color the

1:07:57

road for the first Ferrari. I think

1:07:59

the movie. It's like it's centered in

1:08:01

the world of golf. Do you golf? No.

1:08:04

Are you going to golf? No, I don't have to

1:08:06

golf. It's like part of your research. You don't? I

1:08:09

don't have to golf. But don't you have to like learn how

1:08:11

to caddy or do that? Yeah, well, I mean, kind of.

1:08:13

I mean, it's not, it's more about the

1:08:16

through line of it is that Owen's character, he's

1:08:18

down on his luck, you

1:08:21

know, and he's not a golfer. He kind of

1:08:23

blew his career for a lot of different reasons,

1:08:25

some of them kind of deep and emotional. And

1:08:27

my background with him is emotional and my life

1:08:29

has been difficult. But he sees, he

1:08:32

sees some prodigy teenager

1:08:34

on the driving range and

1:08:36

decides he wants to go all in and make this kid

1:08:38

a pro. So like he

1:08:40

has to get the mother on board, get

1:08:42

the kid on board, get me on board

1:08:44

to kind of go with him, drive to

1:08:47

the Winnebago. So we become this sort of

1:08:49

weird family on the

1:08:51

road doing these amateur golf tournaments with

1:08:53

this kid who's kind of a

1:08:55

dick. That

1:08:57

sounds fun. Yeah. And where's it

1:09:00

gonna film? Vancouver. Oh. What?

1:09:03

Okay. What's the matter with

1:09:06

Vancouver? I

1:09:09

filmed some stuff in Vancouver. Okay. All

1:09:12

right. It rains a lot there.

1:09:14

But summer, it's gonna be summer. I'm told that

1:09:16

summer is the best. Yeah, summer is really nice

1:09:18

in Vancouver. Thank you for shifting the narrative. And

1:09:22

you did music too, right? Yeah.

1:09:27

Yeah. Well, that was later. I've

1:09:29

been around for a while. So I've sort of dabbled in

1:09:31

a lot of different things. But yeah, I

1:09:33

put together a jazz group and

1:09:35

I did it. With your dad? No,

1:09:38

not with my dad. It's

1:09:40

more, a little bit more like modern

1:09:42

and American songbook. Yeah. Actually,

1:09:45

that's how I first heard about you because

1:09:47

my sax player is obsessed

1:09:50

with you. And so

1:09:52

I've been, yeah, in a

1:09:54

good way, not in a creepy way. That's right. Yeah.

1:09:58

What's his name? He's

1:10:00

a really great sax player and an animator.

1:10:02

He animates too. Oh wow. Yeah,

1:10:05

so I did that for a while. Were you

1:10:08

doing it at clubs? Yeah, yeah.

1:10:10

I did it on, I did clubs

1:10:12

and I did, I toured. Did

1:10:15

you have sort of a cabaret act? Not

1:10:18

really a cabaret in that

1:10:21

it wasn't really, I mean I talked to the

1:10:23

audience a little, I mean I guess it could

1:10:25

have been considered a cabaret, but like because I

1:10:28

grew up with a jazz musician

1:10:30

I wanted to be serious. Yeah,

1:10:32

yeah. You know jazz, it was to me

1:10:34

it was more like about the music and less about

1:10:36

the cabaret. Yeah,

1:10:39

yeah, sure. But not that I

1:10:41

have anything wrong with cabaret, it was just not what I had

1:10:43

in mind. You still got the

1:10:45

band together? I mean they're all in LA. I

1:10:49

was living in LA at the time. But

1:10:51

yeah, I mean they're still my guys. I

1:10:53

still talk to them and hang out when I

1:10:55

see them. When did you move to New York?

1:10:58

I moved to New York about eight

1:11:01

years ago. Oh, not that long ago. Yeah.

1:11:04

Yeah. I mean I was in New York,

1:11:06

I kind of bounced around between LA, New York and Paris. So

1:11:08

it's like my three spots. Those are pretty

1:11:10

good cities to bounce. Yeah. And

1:11:13

you live in the city? I live outside, a little

1:11:15

outside. Oh, okay. So you could have

1:11:17

a house? Yeah, exactly. And my kids can

1:11:19

like bike around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I wanted

1:11:22

them to kind of grow up a little slower. Yeah.

1:11:25

So then it must be a little

1:11:27

tricky to work or you don't think, you know, you

1:11:29

just jump and go do it. I just

1:11:31

jump and go do it. And

1:11:34

also, you know, I mean now,

1:11:37

particularly since the pandemic, everything is,

1:11:39

you know, like Zoom or,

1:11:41

you know, okay. Yeah, in terms of auditioning or

1:11:43

whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

1:11:46

And how do you choose movies now? I

1:11:50

choose them really,

1:11:52

I'm trying to be as selective as

1:11:55

I can because I feel like, you

1:11:57

know, with the Ryan Murphy stuff that

1:11:59

I've done. It's like at a certain

1:12:01

caliber and I'm kind of trying to

1:12:03

stay at that caliber again and work

1:12:05

with like I've had really good experiences

1:12:08

with both of those projects, you know with Dahmer

1:12:10

and with um, and with with

1:12:13

feud he did the feud too. Yeah Yeah,

1:12:16

and he he like he's put me with

1:12:18

everything in Dahmer was with Richard Jenkins Who's

1:12:21

an amazing actor and then all my scenes

1:12:23

in feud or with Tom Hollander? Also an

1:12:25

amazing actor and I have always

1:12:27

found that like the better the actor you're working with

1:12:30

You know the the better I

1:12:33

am Yeah I'm really trying to

1:12:35

kind of stay focused on that and just

1:12:37

do stuff that I really love and also

1:12:39

I'm writing I'm working on a my own

1:12:42

thing and what well,

1:12:44

it's just kind of I don't I don't know what it

1:12:46

is I can't talk about it yet because I'm a movie

1:12:48

kind of thing or no like a serious thing Oh, yeah

1:12:50

that I'm writing with a couple people, but you've also done

1:12:53

other writing. Yeah. Yeah I I mean I

1:12:55

do a lot of you know fiction

1:12:57

nonfiction essay writing, but this is this

1:12:59

is gonna be You know you

1:13:01

do novel writing. Yeah, I

1:13:03

mean novels one. How is that?

1:13:06

It was good It was good. It was a

1:13:08

novel and stories. It was kind of like interconnected Sorry,

1:13:12

yeah, well it was um, I mean, yeah, it

1:13:14

is hard but But I

1:13:16

in a lot of ways I find that fiction is

1:13:18

easier than nonfiction Cuz

1:13:21

nonfiction is like you you know

1:13:24

Like what do you I get

1:13:26

worried about you know hurting people's feelings or

1:13:28

saying the wrong thing And yeah, you know,

1:13:30

yeah, I've done a couple memoir things and

1:13:33

upset my dad. Yeah, but

1:13:35

he had it coming Did

1:13:40

he get over it yeah, yes dimension now

1:13:42

so Way over it

1:13:44

Oh Bad dementia getting

1:13:47

there. He's still mostly there, but

1:13:49

yeah, he got upset about it But like it's a very

1:13:51

odd thing to To

1:13:54

do that to like to

1:13:56

you know, how much do you

1:13:58

take into consideration if if it's part? of

1:14:00

your story as well. Yeah. You

1:14:02

know what I mean? But you just got to be willing to take,

1:14:05

you know, what comes. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

1:14:08

my first book that I did, it was

1:14:10

nonfiction, and I didn't change anyone's name

1:14:12

because in my mind, I wasn't looking

1:14:14

to take anyone down. Right. I mean,

1:14:16

I told stories, I told some funny

1:14:18

stories, but I thought that they

1:14:21

were funny. Like, I had no

1:14:23

idea. Which book was this? It was my first book.

1:14:25

It was called Getting the Pretty Back, and it was

1:14:27

just a book of essays. About your career and

1:14:29

life? About life. It was about, yeah,

1:14:31

it was kind of, it was the first thing

1:14:34

that I wrote. And

1:14:36

if I had to do it over again, like

1:14:38

the book that I wrote was illustrated. It's a

1:14:40

very pretty book, but it's a little bit light,

1:14:42

kind of, I thought no one would accept that

1:14:45

I was, I cared too much about what people

1:14:47

thought. So I kind of went a

1:14:49

little on the fluffier side. On

1:14:52

brand-ish? Yeah. And then

1:14:54

after that, I thought, no, this is, this is actually

1:14:56

really isn't what I want to do at all. And

1:15:00

in the process of that, I upset

1:15:02

three people in my life, actually lost

1:15:04

one friend, and then the other two

1:15:07

forgave me. So

1:15:09

I will never, I will change, and

1:15:11

now everyone gets a different name. Just

1:15:13

no matter what, unless they're a really public person.

1:15:15

Yeah. You know, I'm going

1:15:18

to change everyone's name. These were just, they weren't

1:15:20

public people? No, they were just

1:15:22

friends of mine. And I mean, I really

1:15:24

didn't think that anything that I said was

1:15:26

that bad. Well, actually, one thing that I

1:15:28

said wasn't very nice, but I wasn't

1:15:30

really, I wasn't. Well, that's, yeah, an

1:15:34

ex-girlfriend of mine brought that to my attention that like, when

1:15:36

you do that, they don't have

1:15:38

a platform to respond or give their

1:15:40

side of it. So, you know, how

1:15:42

fair is it? Yeah, exactly.

1:15:45

But then on another level, it's like, well, it's

1:15:47

not an active conversation. I

1:15:50

mean, yeah, what are you going to do? Like,

1:15:52

everybody, I can't remember who, I

1:15:54

think it might have been Graham Greene or

1:15:57

something that said that every writer has to

1:15:59

have a little little icicle in their heart.

1:16:02

Like you have to be able, in

1:16:04

order to write, you have to feel

1:16:06

like that is so important, that

1:16:08

that's the most important thing. And by

1:16:10

the same token, I'm not looking to write, I'm

1:16:13

not looking to get revenge on anyone in anything

1:16:15

that I write. I'm not looking

1:16:17

to settle scores. I don't wanna

1:16:19

do that. That was the big question I had

1:16:21

asked myself after I put out that book with my

1:16:24

dad in it. Like was I? Were you? Settling

1:16:26

a score? Do you think you were? Yeah.

1:16:31

Yeah. How are you not gonna be that with your

1:16:33

parents? Yeah. I

1:16:36

would have a really hard time with that, about

1:16:38

writing about my

1:16:41

parents in non-fiction. Yeah.

1:16:45

Well, it sounds like they were all right though. Yeah, they

1:16:47

were all right. I mean, no one's perfect, but you know,

1:16:50

yeah. And

1:16:53

ultimately, with those kinds of things, you gotta

1:16:55

ask yourself, was this even necessary? What

1:16:58

the fuck? To

1:17:00

what end? It wasn't like a best seller.

1:17:02

Yeah. So the one guy that read it.

1:17:05

Is there a dad? Yeah. How

1:17:09

long ago was that? The

1:17:11

one he got upset about, attempting normal. I

1:17:14

don't know when that was. It was

1:17:16

like, it's tricky, because he was a mentally

1:17:19

ill dude in a very sort of functional

1:17:22

way, and had these issues that

1:17:24

had a profound effect on me, in

1:17:26

different points in my life. So I felt that

1:17:28

it was valid, but

1:17:31

he just got paranoid and weird, and he got

1:17:33

mad. And

1:17:35

it was a very funny conversation, because he's

1:17:37

mad at me, and he's on the phone,

1:17:39

and he's all yelling, he thinks he's gonna

1:17:41

get in trouble for this or that. And

1:17:44

I said, what do you want me to do? What do you want, money? And

1:17:47

he says, he goes, yeah. And

1:17:49

I go, well, how much money do you want? He goes, $100,000. And

1:17:54

I said, I'll give you five. Did

1:17:57

you? Yeah. made

1:18:00

everything okay? I don't even like he

1:18:03

was just being a dick. I mean like he

1:18:05

could use he definitely used the money but we're

1:18:07

okay now. I mean it all comes to pass

1:18:10

eventually and nothing really happened you know it's just

1:18:12

I think his family

1:18:14

also it's like you write these recollections

1:18:16

of things even of my grandfather you

1:18:19

know childhood recollections of somebody and then

1:18:21

you know the entire family gets upset.

1:18:23

You know like you know his my

1:18:26

dad's sister and the old uncles and

1:18:28

stuff. Someone tells me like they're all

1:18:30

Maddie and I'm like so? What's

1:18:33

gonna happen then? Yeah I

1:18:36

was really thrown though I was really

1:18:38

thrown that my friend well

1:18:41

my friends but one in

1:18:43

particular I was really really sad that

1:18:45

that she was so upset and

1:18:48

I remember talking to a mutual friend of

1:18:50

ours who happens to be a public person.

1:18:52

Yeah Monica Lewinsky have you ever interviewed Monica?

1:18:55

No she doesn't do that. What's

1:18:57

that? She won't do it. She won't? I

1:18:59

don't think so. I think she would. I

1:19:01

you know I met her briefly and you

1:19:03

know I kind of introduced myself but I

1:19:05

mean it didn't seem like you

1:19:08

know I think because of what

1:19:11

her life is now and and

1:19:13

what she fights for yeah that

1:19:15

you know kind of doing the life story

1:19:17

thing is is behind her yeah and so

1:19:20

I don't get a sense that she really wants to do

1:19:22

the type of interview that I do. I don't know you

1:19:25

might be wrong I think she's she's well

1:19:27

anyway I really like her a lot and

1:19:29

she's she's very smart and I remember talking

1:19:31

to her and I was I mean I

1:19:33

was really like didn't know what I was

1:19:35

gonna do and how I was gonna repair

1:19:37

this friendship and and I said but but

1:19:39

everything that I said is true and it's

1:19:42

stuff that you know that we've laughed about

1:19:44

and like how could she be upset and

1:19:46

she said Molly everybody wants to control

1:19:49

their own mythology right

1:19:52

you know and I thought yeah they're

1:19:54

a narrative yeah and that's you know

1:19:57

what's so upsetting to people to read

1:20:00

somebody else's version of them in,

1:20:02

you know, and everybody's going to

1:20:04

have their own narrative. Sure. Yeah.

1:20:08

So, I don't know. I thought that was

1:20:10

very, very... Yeah, I think that's probably... ...preceptive.

1:20:14

It's true. But like, you know, it's weird though. Like,

1:20:16

you would think that eventually these things come

1:20:18

to pass, you know, after a certain

1:20:20

age. Like, you know, it didn't

1:20:23

make the national news, did it? No.

1:20:26

Yeah. No. You

1:20:28

know? Oh, yeah. Perfusely.

1:20:31

Nothing, huh? No, we're friends

1:20:33

again. You are. I only lost one

1:20:35

friend for good over the... But no,

1:20:38

this particular friend forgave me and the

1:20:40

other friend. We talked about it. Yeah.

1:20:43

And she forgave me as well. So, but I think from

1:20:45

that it kind of... But no more books. You can't

1:20:47

write any more about it. Well, no, I can. I

1:20:51

just have to change everyone's name. I decided to be on

1:20:53

the safe side. I'm just going to change everyone's name. And

1:20:55

I was like, it doesn't matter. They can, you know...

1:20:57

Yeah. A lot of... There's

1:21:00

like a trend in French books where they just

1:21:02

do the first letter of the... Oh, yeah.

1:21:04

The person. I change names in some books, but like,

1:21:06

I mean, I'm not going to be able to change my dad.

1:21:10

Yeah. Like, if I'm referring to him as

1:21:12

my dad. Yeah. You grew up in New Jersey?

1:21:14

New Mexico. Oh, New Mexico? Why did I...

1:21:17

My folks are from Jersey. Oh, okay. Yeah,

1:21:19

they're... I'm genetically Jersey, is what I say generally.

1:21:21

Okay. Yeah, because you sound a little bit like... Yeah. Sound...

1:21:25

Do you sound a little bit like your dad? Probably. I

1:21:27

mean, I tell if there's a Jersey

1:21:29

inflection, but I probably sound... I would

1:21:32

imagine I do. I don't think I

1:21:34

have an accent. New Mexico, what's that

1:21:36

like? Albuquerque. Oh, okay. I

1:21:38

love it. I mean, I do... I know people,

1:21:41

they go work there and they're like, wow, what a shithole. I'm

1:21:43

like, no, it's not. You do what we're doing. No. Well,

1:21:46

it's a little rough, Albuquerque. Yeah. In parts.

1:21:49

Yeah. But when I grew up there, it was beautiful.

1:21:51

New Mexico is beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. I'm

1:21:54

going to go back there, I think, someday. Do you

1:21:56

really, to live? Yeah. Northern

1:21:58

New Mexico, it's pretty. I was gonna

1:22:00

go back to New York, but then I realized, if

1:22:03

I'm gonna get old, I had this idea, I could get old

1:22:05

in New York, it'd be one of those New York old people

1:22:08

carrying their Strand book bag and hunched

1:22:11

over. You know, like walking

1:22:13

places through lively young

1:22:16

people. But I don't

1:22:18

know, that kind of went away. I just had this realization,

1:22:20

it's like when I lived there, I didn't do a

1:22:22

lot of what the city had to offer. And it can be pretty lonely

1:22:24

in New York. How long did you live in New York? I

1:22:28

lived there at different times. I lived there like 89 to

1:22:30

92, and

1:22:32

then I was back from 94 to 2002. And

1:22:38

then out here for a couple years, I

1:22:40

kept an apartment in Queens, and I was back in New York

1:22:42

like 2004 to seven. You

1:22:45

moved to New York to do comedy? Was

1:22:47

that always what you wanted to do?

1:22:49

Yeah, totally, yeah. I moved, after,

1:22:52

I was out here in like 88, or

1:22:56

87 after college, and I got a job at the

1:22:58

comedy store, got all fucked up on Coke and left.

1:23:01

And then went back to Boston where I went to school and started, and

1:23:03

then I got an apartment in New York. It's

1:23:05

been a long, exciting path.

1:23:08

But yeah, I was always chasing comedy. Do

1:23:11

you still enjoy doing comedy? I do,

1:23:13

yeah, I seem to do, like it's

1:23:15

gotten better, because I'm not afraid. So,

1:23:19

and it's something I've worked my whole life doing, and

1:23:21

I'm working at the top of

1:23:23

my game, and it's all pretty exciting, because there's

1:23:25

a lot of revelation

1:23:28

and things. It's

1:23:31

sort of like writing, I don't love to write. But

1:23:33

when you write, things happen

1:23:35

that never happened before. Like things

1:23:38

come together or come up. But

1:23:40

that happens on stage, and when it does, it makes

1:23:42

it pretty exciting. I find

1:23:44

that comedy to me is

1:23:47

like the most terrifying thing that I can

1:23:49

imagine doing. Stand up. Stand

1:23:51

up. Yeah. Not comedy,

1:23:53

I love comedy, I love

1:23:55

doing, I mean to grow up in

1:23:58

acting, but just standing up. And

1:24:00

and and like being funny for people

1:24:02

and like to me it feels very

1:24:05

Courageous for a while. I

1:24:07

couldn't I couldn't even watch comedy stand

1:24:10

up because I'm comfortable. Yeah, maybe too anxious Yeah,

1:24:13

I wish there were more people doing comedy that

1:24:15

thought like you But

1:24:19

there are comedians that are

1:24:21

a little terrified doing it right well

1:24:23

I think so I but there are

1:24:26

a lot of bad comedians I think

1:24:28

that it's become sort of normalized somehow

1:24:30

with social media platforms Yeah and

1:24:32

I think what it used to mean to

1:24:34

be a comic or to do the work

1:24:37

and to you know, it's changed

1:24:39

with With with outlets, you

1:24:41

know, because people can just dump anything

1:24:43

in the water But there

1:24:46

are comics that have lifelong stage fright I

1:24:48

don't have it anymore But I

1:24:50

think for most of the career you kind of pretend

1:24:52

like you're not afraid Yeah, and then if

1:24:54

you're lucky a day comes when you're just not and

1:24:57

and I'm pretty personal So there's not

1:24:59

that much space between me on stage

1:25:02

and me in life So it feels

1:25:04

like the emotional risk is pretty heavy for me.

1:25:06

Like I'm not doing a character up there I

1:25:09

yeah, I you know, I put myself on the

1:25:11

line and and that's not always comfortable I'm not

1:25:13

afraid of it, but sometimes I wonder why I'm

1:25:15

saying what I'm saying. Yeah, it's the same

1:25:17

with the book It's like what what why do you

1:25:19

need to do this? Yeah, what are you looking for?

1:25:21

Yeah I'm not I never got into it to be

1:25:23

an entertainer Yeah What

1:25:26

do you what do you think you are

1:25:28

looking for when you when you do it? Is

1:25:30

it is it like connection or is it

1:25:32

I think so I think there's yeah and

1:25:34

there's sort of like some guy brought it

1:25:36

to my attention that I was probably Recreating

1:25:38

something I grew up with that was maybe

1:25:40

wasn't particularly healthy But I got this

1:25:42

was my way of sort of processing

1:25:44

it or living in it And I think there's

1:25:46

some truth to that But I like the

1:25:49

idea of taking emotional risks

1:25:51

and being honest in

1:25:53

a way that's jarring You

1:25:56

know to see if there's like a

1:25:58

common vibe there if you If

1:26:00

you talk about stuff that is kind

1:26:02

of off the grid as a cultural conversation,

1:26:05

especially in comedy, about

1:26:07

yourself, you're going to help somebody. Somebody

1:26:10

is going to feel better. Not all

1:26:12

of them. Yeah. Yeah. So

1:26:15

like I'm not doing arenas, but I can sell

1:26:17

about 800 tickets some places. Yeah. No, I

1:26:19

think it is. I think it is

1:26:21

very meaningful to people. I

1:26:24

was just watching a comedian that I

1:26:27

know that you've had on the show before

1:26:29

who's pretty open about

1:26:31

his mental health issues. Who's

1:26:36

that? Gary. Oh yeah,

1:26:38

Gorman. Yeah. Yeah.

1:26:41

And I was really moved. Yeah, that's the real stuff really.

1:26:45

I thought he was funny. I thought he was smart,

1:26:47

but I also found it really moving. And

1:26:51

I don't know. I

1:26:53

love watching comedians who put themselves out

1:26:55

there in that way. That's the

1:26:57

good stuff. Yeah. I mean, joke

1:26:59

guys are fine. I like them. I'd

1:27:03

rather watch them than someone who's doing something like

1:27:05

I'm doing. There's certain comics

1:27:07

that are just not taking down some

1:27:09

dark hole to see if they can

1:27:11

shed light on something. But

1:27:14

I think that's a very exciting

1:27:16

way to do comedy. He's a good guy. Yeah.

1:27:20

And he's definitely had to deal with some shit. But

1:27:22

did you used to go see comedy back

1:27:24

in the day? Or

1:27:26

you just couldn't handle it? A little bit.

1:27:29

But then, yeah, at a certain point, I

1:27:31

just realized that it just made me too

1:27:33

nervous. Maybe I just saw

1:27:35

a lot of bad comedy. I

1:27:39

couldn't stand to see people bomb. Yeah.

1:27:42

It really... Because I feel like I'm really

1:27:44

a very empathetic person.

1:27:46

I feel like part of what I do

1:27:49

as an actor. You just have

1:27:51

to be so empathetic all

1:27:53

the time. And I felt like I was seeing comedy and

1:27:55

I was just... I was dying with them, you know? And

1:27:59

I just couldn't stand it. But I'm getting over

1:28:01

that. I've actually started to get into comedy

1:28:03

more. Oh really? Watching it, yeah. Well, if

1:28:05

you're watching it on TV, you would hope

1:28:07

that they're not bombing, right? Yeah, that's true.

1:28:09

Okay. That's true, yeah. So, all right. So

1:28:12

tomorrow you're gonna go to the fashion thing.

1:28:14

Gonna do the fashion thing tomorrow. For who?

1:28:16

For the rap. Oh,

1:28:19

okay. The rap. All right. Well,

1:28:21

thank you for coming by. Thank you for having me.

1:28:23

Do you feel good about it? I feel

1:28:25

great about it. Good, me too. There

1:28:31

you go. A French

1:28:33

translator. Anyway, Feud, Capote versus the Swans,

1:28:36

is screaming on Hulu, and it was lovely to

1:28:38

talk to Molly. Hang

1:28:41

out for a minute, folks. What

1:29:00

are the things she had to cut out

1:29:02

of recent episodes and explains why they got

1:29:04

cut, like this clip of me and Tig

1:29:06

Notaro? I don't miss meat at all. I

1:29:08

don't think about it. Oh my God,

1:29:10

I don't. People always ask me when

1:29:12

they're eating in front of me if

1:29:15

it's hard to see them eat that.

1:29:19

Emotionally, or that you might want it?

1:29:21

Like I might want it. Oh. And

1:29:23

it's like, what I've learned

1:29:25

about what they're eating I'm

1:29:32

not tempted. It's kind of like

1:29:34

when during the pandemic, everybody would

1:29:36

ask, were you able to stay

1:29:38

vegan during the pandemic? Yeah, I mean.

1:29:41

Yeah, I'm not like lying or cheating on

1:29:43

myself here. I'm not like, oh good, I'm privately

1:29:45

in my home. I'm just gonna eat burgers.

1:29:47

What were people doing during the pandemic? Were

1:29:49

they out hunting? Yeah. I mean, why

1:29:51

would the pandemic matter? Well, that's what I said. It's like if

1:29:53

I were on a boat with a bunch of men, I'd

1:29:55

be like, oh, I'm, you know, BSB,

1:29:58

I have somebody who likes to impress me in my plastic introduce

1:30:00

you to. I was a way...

1:30:03

It was a long trip. We were out there for

1:30:05

three weeks. You know what?

1:30:07

I did Mark's podcast. It went

1:30:10

a little long. We're dating now. I

1:30:12

don't know what came over me. I

1:30:14

couldn't hold it back anymore. Love it.

1:30:17

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