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F**k the game! Alright,

0:52

let's do this. How are you what the f**kers?

0:54

What the f**k buddies? What the f**k knicks? What

0:57

the f**k Adelex? What's happening? I'm Mark

0:59

Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Welcome

1:02

to it. Have a seat.

1:04

Have a run. Have a

1:06

drive. Do your work. Do

1:09

some knitting. Do some

1:11

riveting. Do some engine

1:13

work. Is there anyone out there working

1:15

on an engine? Yeah, I don't know

1:18

what people do. You get obsessed. You

1:20

focus and you get into it. I'm

1:23

that way. I've done that with many things.

1:26

The weird thing about that is that

1:28

when you get involved with either

1:30

amassing or working on one thing

1:33

compulsively, I've done it with

1:35

some some minor woodworking.

1:38

I've done it with I've

1:40

done it with you know collecting records.

1:42

I've done it with a recipe. But

1:45

the weird thing about having that compulsion,

1:47

a sort of singular focus

1:49

that you just can't get out of your head and that you have

1:52

to do is that once you do it,

1:54

you hit this, you hit a wall with it. You know,

1:57

whether it's being a completist and terms

2:00

of like, I got to have all the records by that

2:02

guy, or it's getting a

2:04

recipe adjusted just right, or

2:06

maybe building or rebuilding engines

2:09

or a guitar, whatever it is.

2:12

I mean, I guess some people, it becomes

2:14

their life. But for me,

2:16

like, I'll get into it and I'll

2:18

work it and I'll work it and then like

2:20

when I'm sort of, I've

2:22

done all I can, it

2:24

goes away. And then it's just a memory.

2:27

There you go. You've got to make that

2:29

thing exactly how you wanted to make it.

2:31

You now have all those records by that

2:33

guy. There you go. I

2:35

imagine engines are different, especially if it's a singular

2:38

focus where it's like one car that you

2:40

love and you just keep doing it. And

2:43

then some things, for me, like eventually they just,

2:45

you know, I'll break them or

2:48

they just don't come out the way I want.

2:50

And then there's that reminder. I've done

2:52

that with stuff. Me and my big ideas. Just

2:55

go on YouTube to figure out

2:57

how to get the red

3:00

shoe polish that some guy

3:02

at the airport got on

3:04

the nice heels of

3:06

your Brian the Bootmaker boots because

3:09

he polished the goddamn soles

3:11

on the sides. You

3:13

can't sand that off. You can't sand rubber.

3:16

You can't just use alcohol to get it out. It's

3:19

fucked until it naturally wears off.

3:22

And either you just say, fuck these boots

3:24

or you say, well, this is the way

3:26

they are now. This is

3:28

the life these boots are living. I

3:31

don't know if that makes sense to anybody or

3:33

whether you're making a cake for the fourth time,

3:35

but I don't know. Just some thoughts

3:37

I had in the moment. Okay, look, today

3:40

on the show, Jimmy Carr

3:42

is here. Jimmy Carr, he's

3:44

a British Irish comedian and actor. He's

3:46

been a host of several panel shows

3:48

in Britain and he's now set

3:50

to release his fourth Netflix

3:52

special this week. And

3:55

look, I've known about Jimmy Carr forever. Man,

3:58

it goes back to a bad time in my life. actually,

4:01

if I'm to be honest with you. The

4:03

first time I went to Edinburgh, not

4:06

in great shape, mentally, emotionally, just

4:09

in the beginning of a separation

4:11

with my second wife that was devastating,

4:14

but I was booked there and I

4:16

was on a double bill with Kirk Fox. Many

4:18

of you have heard bits and pieces of

4:21

this conversation, of this story, but

4:24

it was horrendous. I don't

4:26

love going to other countries for a

4:28

long time and here I was, signed up to do

4:30

a month, three weeks or whatever, in

4:33

Scotland. It's not like there's no language

4:35

barrier. I don't know if that's completely

4:37

true, but there

4:39

is a slight language barrier in

4:41

terms of trying to

4:44

get acclimated to the

4:47

spectrum of Scottish accents. What

4:51

do I remember about that trip? I just was

4:53

miserable and Kirk and I were not drawing crowds

4:55

and I met Jimmy there. I met

4:58

him for the first time with Morgan Murphy

5:00

and I knew he was a big act

5:02

and I knew he did primarily one-liners of

5:04

the dark variety.

5:07

That was sort of his thing. He

5:09

was sort of a almost a ghoulish

5:11

Bob Hope and I

5:14

could tell he was a pro, that's for sure. He

5:16

definitely had a huge following. He definitely has craft

5:18

in place. I've always been

5:21

impressed with guys who can do

5:23

jokes, like just jokes for an

5:25

hour. It's kind of amazing to

5:27

remember that you haven't done a

5:29

one-liner. He struck me as an okay guy and

5:31

I wanted to get him on the podcast, but

5:33

I don't know if he didn't want to do it.

5:35

I got the sense that he didn't want to share

5:37

on that level, but whatever's happened

5:40

in his life, he now does and

5:43

he's now here. You know it's

5:45

weird. I remember it's just coming

5:47

back to me. It must have been in August

5:50

because to keep my sanity, I went to

5:52

a small AA meeting in

5:54

Edinburgh. Every day I was there,

5:56

at least every other day, and I became

5:58

fairly close with that group and this is

6:00

just the testament to the

6:03

sort of community and how sober

6:05

was I? Well, I was already like probably

6:08

six or seven years sober at that point

6:10

but I do remember going

6:12

to this meeting and being kind of like

6:15

taken care of in a way because I

6:17

was emotionally distraught and I

6:19

was in another country and I

6:21

remember I think I had an

6:24

anniversary, a sober

6:26

anniversary while I was there and I

6:28

remember they gave me like

6:30

this little kind of like stone polished

6:32

stone elephant and I have it and

6:34

it meant a lot to me with a little card and

6:37

it's just a testament to the support

6:39

available to you if you want it even if

6:41

you don't want to work a

6:43

program or anything else. If you're in a pinch

6:45

and you're feeling squirrely, you can usually

6:47

just show up at one of those things and whether

6:49

you like it or not feel better but I am

6:52

grateful to that fellowship

6:55

in Scotland for that experience, that's

6:58

for sure. It definitely helped

7:00

me. Tonight I'm

7:02

in Austin, Texas at the Paramount

7:04

Theatre as part of the Moontower

7:06

Comedy Festival. I'll be in Montclair,

7:08

New Jersey on Thursday, May 2nd

7:10

at the Wellmont Center, Glenside, Pennsylvania

7:12

near Philly on Friday, May 3rd

7:14

at the Keswick Theatre, Washington, D.C.

7:16

on Saturday, May 4th at the

7:18

Warner Theatre, Munhall, Pennsylvania outside Pittsburgh

7:20

on May 9th at the Carnegie

7:22

Library Music Hall, Cleveland, Ohio on

7:24

May 10th at the Playhouse Square,

7:27

Detroit, Michigan on May

7:29

11th at the Royal Oak Music Theatre.

7:31

Go to wtfpod.com/tour for all

7:34

my dates and links to

7:36

tickets. You can do

7:38

it. You can do it.

7:41

Come on out. I

7:43

saw the movie Civil War and I

7:46

did not know what to expect and I don't know

7:49

what you're expecting. I

7:51

don't know if you're, I talk to a lot of

7:53

people and they're like, I don't want to go because

7:55

many people feel that on some level, even

7:57

if, you know, if polls are going to

7:59

go. incorrect. Many people feel

8:01

we're on the verge of a civil war with a very specific

8:04

line between the

8:07

two ideologies. The political

8:09

division in this country is profound, and

8:12

I think most of

8:15

us, it's gotten to the point

8:17

where I was in the Midwest, you walk down the

8:19

street, and you're walking by people,

8:21

and in your brain, you're

8:24

both thinking probably for different reasons, I

8:26

bet he's one. I bet they're one. And that's

8:29

not good. It's not good, it's

8:31

hard to get past, and I

8:33

wish we could get past it. But

8:36

heading into the civil war, you

8:39

want to think that, okay, well, this

8:41

is going to be a depiction of

8:44

the possibilities of

8:46

what civil war would look like in America.

8:48

And perhaps it is, but there

8:51

is no teams, really. There's

8:54

no ideological motives

8:57

that you can really attach yourself to.

9:00

I don't want to spoil anything, I don't

9:02

know if it's possible, but the

9:05

president, who is played by

9:08

Nick Offerman in a small

9:10

but powerful part, has all

9:12

we really know about the president, and he's

9:14

gotten rid of the FBI, and he's taken

9:17

the third term for himself. So that's not

9:19

right. But then there's like these

9:21

different sort of armies,

9:24

or militias, or forces.

9:27

There's the Texas-California alliance, which

9:29

is odd, but intentionally,

9:34

because those two states really

9:36

represent the division in our country right

9:38

now. But in this movie, you don't

9:40

go into it, but they are

9:42

aligned, and there's the Florida military

9:45

or whatever, and then there's a quick

9:49

mention of something up in the

9:51

Pacific Northwest that might be Maoist.

9:55

So that's all you really get, though, in

9:57

terms of the actual fights and bloody

10:00

combat, you don't know who's fighting who.

10:03

All you know is that they're Americans, which

10:05

is a very interesting way to

10:08

portray this. You follow this crew

10:10

of press people, photographers and one

10:13

aging journalist, but at any

10:15

given point where they're seeing combat or

10:18

seeing carnage, you don't know who did

10:20

it or why. Even

10:22

in the battles, you're not sure who's against

10:24

who. All you know

10:26

is they are Americans fighting Americans

10:28

and killing them. In

10:31

each situation, you sort of are

10:34

kind of shown the humanity

10:36

or lack of humanity in all

10:40

of these situations, whether they be the

10:42

shooters or whether they be refugees or

10:44

whether they

10:46

be bystanders. What's

10:49

really interesting about the movie is not really

10:51

knowing whose side

10:53

is what, what side is what, what anybody

10:55

stands for. There's

10:58

hints at it and you do know

11:00

that they're gunning for the president,

11:03

but in terms of ideologically it's

11:05

vague. I know that's sort of hard

11:07

to wrap your brain around and even

11:09

hard to see how

11:12

that would work, but it does work. There's

11:14

definitely moments that are taken from even

11:18

the Congo, just

11:20

how do regular people and even the

11:22

American Civil War, how do

11:25

neighbors kill neighbors? How

11:27

do relatives kill relatives? It's

11:29

in there. If

11:31

you're expecting either, if you're a

11:34

progressive and you're expecting some apocalyptic

11:37

vision with identifiable

11:39

sides that sort of make

11:43

your nightmare come true, that's not really

11:45

what it is. If

11:47

you're a right

11:49

wing sociopath, you

11:51

might have a couple moments, but

11:53

it's not really what it's about. These

11:56

teams are not really represented. What's

11:59

represented is war. and what's

12:01

represented as Americans at war

12:04

with themselves. And

12:06

it's really a study of the humanity

12:08

and lack thereof of

12:10

war. And I thought it was a compelling and

12:14

I thought it was a good film. And

12:17

I would recommend it. How's

12:19

that? How's that for you? Go

12:22

see it. Don't be afraid of it. All

12:24

right, look, Jimmy Carr is

12:26

here and I did not know him and I did

12:28

not think I would ever get to know him. I

12:30

did not think that he would be willing to talk,

12:33

but it was good. It was good to talk to

12:35

him and smart guy, funny

12:37

guy. His special Jimmy Carr, Natural

12:39

Born Killer, is out on

12:41

Netflix starting tomorrow, April 16th, and this is

12:43

me and Jimmy. Every

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WTF. Yeah,

13:52

Carnegie, I played there and it felt like a

13:55

lot of there was a weight to

13:57

it. Hmm. It didn't it felt like

13:59

it was a privilege. And an honor even

14:01

though they book anyone there now

14:03

well as as evidence But

14:06

it's that weird thing though those places that I

14:08

saw Barry Manilow the other night and Bernie No,

14:10

I was in Vegas and he was talking about

14:12

when he played He knew he'd made it

14:15

when his grandfather came to oh his father

14:17

came to see him in Carnegie Hall Yeah,

14:19

I thought I've played there Yeah Just seemed

14:21

otherworldly to me the idea of these there's

14:23

certain places that have that And

14:25

we had to go in there and do our thing and it's it's

14:28

so recent man. It's like It's

14:30

a luxury. Well, but it's only goes back

14:32

I mean, I know you can trace comedy

14:34

back to the trickster gods of prehistory, but

14:37

I think it's Carlin and prior Yeah, and

14:39

this is the newest. Yeah medium right so

14:41

like you think what's America given the world

14:43

right jazz Yeah, I think sure Western's yeah

14:46

and stand-up comedy. Yeah and stand-up comedy so

14:48

in its infancy Yeah, the fact that

14:50

we just to do it now is

14:52

like you've been in it most you've been in it Almost

14:55

as long as comedies been going I think so It's sort

14:57

of like how many years in you can look you can

14:59

look at rock and roll the same way that was 57

15:03

Right and 57 rock and roll happens, and

15:05

I believe it's incredible isn't it? It's wild

15:07

Yeah, I believe think about that thing closer

15:09

to the source you are the better on

15:11

some level The connection you have

15:13

to the source like there are the bands that we

15:15

grew up with that were one generation away Well the

15:17

70s the thing that blows my mind Yeah, some people

15:19

talk about I am music now and I you know

15:21

kids love what they love right sure But the 70s

15:23

like every 18 months. I mean

15:26

I was a baby, but every 18 months

15:28

of something new yeah It's like a reggae.

15:30

Yeah happened. It's not a new band. Yeah

15:32

reggae just happened and then scar and Trojan

15:34

Yeah, he went that's a different genre. I

15:36

mean I wonder about comedy rock Yeah,

15:39

rock yeah, it's like a different

15:41

genre every 18 months you

15:43

really do you think that modern stand-up is really

15:45

that young I? Really do yeah,

15:47

and I think it's like so who do you think you don't

15:50

remember? I think it starts

15:52

with I think okay obviously there's there's

15:54

Lenny Bruce sort of beforehand right more

15:56

It's all Shelley Berman. I mean early

15:58

to be yeah all of those original

16:00

vinyl albums in it. Amazing.

16:04

But I think that was nightclub comedy, it

16:06

was a slightly different thing. I think people

16:08

on stage, it would have been like Billy

16:10

Connolly in the UK or Jasper Cara. Guys

16:12

filling an auditorium and doing an hour and

16:15

people have just paid to see them. Someone

16:18

told me a thing about, I think it was

16:20

Deep Purple at the Hammersmith Apollo was the first

16:22

ever band that didn't play on a bill. The

16:25

Beatles always played on a bill. It was always like other people,

16:28

well we're going to have a juggler

16:30

and some trapeze artists and

16:32

then we'll have a singer and we'll have someone to

16:34

do balance and then you come on. They did that

16:36

in England with the variety show stuff? All the variety

16:38

shows, everything was a variety show until that point. So

16:40

that thing of like modern stand up. Well like 1962,

16:42

1960? That went to like

16:45

1969. Everything was, I think it was 1969.

16:49

Bill Graham did it out here but it

16:51

wasn't even with the rock thing. He was

16:53

trying to integrate the new rock bands

16:55

of the 60s with the old blues artists

16:57

and folk artists. So he did not a

16:59

variety show but he tried to mix it

17:01

up. But you're saying that stand up isolated

17:03

as in art form, I think in a

17:05

big room is new. I think pretty new.

17:07

I mean listen, there's no first. Steve Martin.

17:09

There's never a first. So Steve Martin's the

17:11

first ever arena guy and then it's Eddie

17:13

Murphy. And Eddie Murphy's such a weird quirk

17:16

of stand up because no one else came

17:18

out fully formed. It's never happened before.

17:20

It may never happen again. But the role of Newhart

17:22

was fully formed. But he was a much older guy. He

17:24

lived a life. Yeah kind of. It

17:27

was a very odd story about him. It was radio.

17:29

He started in radio. And when he recorded that first

17:31

album it was really the first time. Was that the

17:34

button down comedian? Yeah. It was like

17:36

the first or second time he'd ever done it as a

17:38

son. It's crazy. The Newhart story

17:40

is crazy. I never knew that. I've

17:42

got the records. I've never released. He was

17:45

doing radio bits. And he put them together.

17:47

I interviewed him. And it was really he

17:49

had never done stand up before.

17:52

Like those nights almost.

17:54

Wow. It's crazy. I

17:56

spoke to someone that saw him. I just try to think

17:58

who it was. some comic I knew

18:01

paid and went to see him to kind of

18:03

pay homage. And he

18:05

got a really lovely reception, very old audience,

18:07

and it was one of his last shows

18:10

and went, oh, he's kind of doing old bits, and it

18:12

took him 20 minutes to re- oh, this is

18:15

where it's from. That's right, yeah, sure. This

18:18

is the source. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like

18:20

someone seeing the original, oh, this is where

18:22

they got it from. This is

18:24

the Robert Johnson record that everything's

18:27

based on. This is hearing

18:29

Pachelbel's canon and going, oh, that's where indie

18:31

rock got Melody from. Very interesting, right? So

18:33

I think comedy's in the infancy. I think

18:35

this is new. I mean, but, okay, I'd

18:37

like to believe that. I guess just

18:39

like, you know, rock and roll, it seems like any

18:41

idiot can do it. Can

18:44

they? Neil Brennan made a really interesting point last

18:46

year. Oh, really? No, maybe two years ago. He's

18:48

good at making points now. He is, yeah. Oh,

18:51

God, I love Neil. Anyway, he was at Montreal. He did

18:53

like a State of the Union type talk. And

18:55

he went, look, there's 60,000 brain

18:58

surgeons in the world. Yeah. There's

19:00

how many guys you would trust to do a special? Maybe 300

19:02

people that could do a good special? Good

19:04

at hand? A good special. But,

19:06

you know, it's not stopping anybody. That's

19:10

my point. That's

19:12

my point. I didn't say that there's, you

19:14

know, anybody can do comedy well, you

19:16

know, but with the advent of the

19:19

platform. The bar feels low for comedy

19:21

and then is extraordinarily high because it

19:23

looks very easy. You're standing there with

19:25

a microphone. There's no barriers to entry.

19:27

You don't need equipment. And

19:29

it looks like it might be an easy

19:31

thing to do. I think it's generational. I

19:33

think people of the new generation just want

19:35

to see, you know, kids are own age,

19:37

do funny shit. They don't have a context.

19:39

There's no context anymore. So however we paid

19:41

our dues or whatever mythology we put together

19:43

for ourselves to justify our existence

19:46

as professional comics, you need fucking nothing

19:49

to that. But you pay your dues

19:51

now or later. You

19:53

know, or you quit. Anyone could be huge

19:55

on the back of the TikTok thing. But

19:57

how will it last? Well, I get that.

20:00

Korea right like but sometimes you see you know these

20:02

young comics and they're posting their first bits on tiktok

20:04

I'm like What are you doing? You're gonna be embarrassed.

20:06

Yeah, you're not ready yet You're gonna look back on

20:08

this and be like why the fuck did I put

20:10

that up there? You can't take it back I

20:12

don't know what we're gonna do. What are we gonna do

20:14

with politicians in 30 years time? We're just gonna have to

20:16

live with politicians while we've seen a dick pic. Well, I

20:18

guess I mean I don't know what we're doing with them

20:20

now. It doesn't seem like anybody with any real Civic

20:23

concern wants the job anymore. So I have no idea.

20:25

It's a very weird thing I heard something recently that

20:27

was like assist this thing and then we talk about

20:30

America and sort of how America's

20:33

cut it's sort of it's in a perfect

20:35

spot. Yeah for what well it can it

20:37

can afford to have a political system This

20:39

fucked. Yeah, because it is so blessed

20:43

Geographically and what you would

20:45

that's that's the big hope that it because

20:47

it's a federalist Union and that

20:49

every state has states rights, but it doesn't

20:51

mean like crazy fuckers can't just take over

20:53

every state does it? I Think

20:56

it might think it might just be okay. Maybe

20:59

I'm very that's not it Well, that's all I think that's

21:01

all anyone's looking for if we can just be okay Yeah,

21:04

we'll get through it. But who the fuck knows

21:06

dude. Well things are I think things aren't getting

21:09

better quite like that Stephen Pinker thing I'm very

21:11

I'm very getting better. I'm very optimistic I

21:14

mean for what by every metric things are

21:16

getting better, right? Well, what's getting worse? Well,

21:19

I mean I I hear that I mean, I

21:21

understand there are some things getting worse I think

21:23

a lot of people's brains are a little soft

21:26

and a little undisciplined So whatever is getting

21:28

better, but there's always like two things going

21:31

on So that there's that thing about people's

21:33

attention spans now are really short and they're

21:35

looking at tick-tock and four second Yeah, okay.

21:37

Also very long people will watch

21:39

60 hours of game of one

21:42

Joe Rogan podcast I But

21:48

that long-form thing is I just my

21:50

concern is how easily led and how

21:52

easily you know Brain-fucked

21:54

people are but I guess it's always been

21:56

that way. But whatever advances we've made in

21:59

technology is made it very efficient. The

22:02

brain fuckery is faster. Much

22:04

faster. Yeah. I mean, I'm doing a bit now

22:06

about I don't know what's

22:08

faster. What makes people crazy faster?

22:11

Facebook or crystal meth and it's tight.

22:14

It's neck and neck. It's neck and

22:16

neck. But you know who wrote, there's a great

22:18

book about this. Neil Postman wrote this book and

22:20

we're amusing ourselves to death. I've read that book.

22:23

So great. It's a great book. But everything he's

22:25

prophesied. I mean, yeah, he

22:27

called it. He called everything. Yeah.

22:29

But now you're talking about politicians

22:32

and now that is

22:35

how people judge them. It's how amusing they

22:37

are. Trump is a clown. He's one

22:41

of the great evil buffoons. He's an intel

22:43

comic. He's a wrestling heel. Yeah.

22:46

But that thing of like

22:49

going, Aldous Huxley was kind of

22:51

right. Cheap dopamine hits is what we're giving away

22:53

our freedom for. Sure. And you can hold

22:55

it in your hand and you don't have

22:58

to take anything. Well, the lovely thing about

23:00

stand up is it feels like it's in

23:02

real life. You sort of do it, you

23:04

stand up in front of other people. For

23:06

us it does. It's that thing where you

23:08

go, so much of life now is a

23:10

proxy because we've done this thing to kids

23:12

where we've sort of helicopter, broadly as a

23:15

society, helicopter parents and kept them

23:17

so safe. So the only freedom they

23:19

got was online. The only freedom they

23:21

got was online. So we did that. I

23:23

think that this like our generation. Well, the idea of

23:25

just giving the kid an iPad, everyone surrenders to it.

23:28

What about your kids? How old are your kids? My

23:30

kids are four and two. Did you give

23:32

them an iPad? No. No.

23:35

They're a little bit of TV. No, but I mean, give them

23:37

a phone. Are they looking at the phone? They're

23:40

not allowed to. No buttons yet? No buttons.

23:42

No screens. A little tiny bit of screen,

23:44

tiny bit of TV, you know, kids thing.

23:47

But like, four

23:49

seems like first iPad. iPad time, no?

23:51

Four? I don't think so. I watched

23:53

that thing on, what was it called?

23:55

The social network or something? It was on Netflix and it

23:58

was kind of all the guys that started those companies. Oh,

24:00

no, you can't give those to your children. Right?

24:02

No, God no. No, this

24:04

is no. No, don't take the poison It's like the Sackler family

24:06

go. No. No, don't take it. I don't care if you're in

24:08

pain Well, let's talk about this

24:10

idea of politicians and the idea of things getting

24:12

better in like, you know obviously right now is

24:14

a good time for comedy and In

24:18

some of the stuff that is getting better is

24:20

our ability to find our audience if

24:22

you have the good Well, you've got the

24:24

you've got the famous Isn't that

24:26

the fact about you you sell more single

24:28

tickets than any other comedian? That's

24:31

a joke I used to do Is that true?

24:34

I heard that was true, which I kind

24:36

of take as a point of a point

24:38

of honor Yeah, well, I mean I used to

24:40

do a bit about about that cuz there just

24:42

be these so I could tell who they were

24:45

You know these sad guys that would come like that But

24:47

they wouldn't they it was the idea was that like they

24:49

couldn't get anyone to go with them. That

24:52

was the idea But it's

24:54

a weird thing of like I don't know if you

24:56

ever do this But you look out in your audience

24:58

and you go who needs this hmm who needs it

25:00

Let you get your chance and my audience definitely needs

25:02

it. Yeah, I think you need it, too

25:05

I think that thing about what you do on stage. Do you

25:07

what you bring? I think I do

25:09

in a very different way yeah, but it's that

25:11

that that need for Affirmation

25:14

the idea that comedy is not the healthiest

25:16

because the the Locus

25:19

of control is outside of you you need the audience

25:21

to like you yeah I don't know if I thought

25:23

about that a lot in terms of why I do

25:25

it because I'm not one of these You know guys

25:28

who loves to be loved necessarily I

25:30

like to have them fight for it, but I do

25:32

feel that you know if I have a

25:34

point of view on something I Would

25:36

like to see if it's a common experience and

25:39

over time I realized that I even though I

25:41

think I have broad appeal It's

25:43

fairly specific You know what I do, but

25:45

it is validated by the people that like

25:47

what I do So I'm not looking for

25:49

love But I am looking to be understood

25:51

and if I am understood I think I'm

25:54

helping those people that understand me a friend

25:56

of mine Said something you know the singer

25:58

Robbie Williams British singer. Yeah world

26:00

famous in Europe. He's very good. But he

26:02

said this thing, it was quite heartbreaking, he

26:04

said, I'm an entertainer in the

26:06

old-fashioned sense. If you don't love me, I don't

26:08

love me. And

26:11

I think stand-up comedians, I think we both have a

26:13

thing where we desperately need to be loved, but totally

26:15

on our own terms. I'm not going to love me

26:18

either way, but I appreciate the set that made it.

26:21

Yeah, I mean, it's a weird thing. It's

26:23

like, I don't know

26:25

where that comes from. Are you still in therapy? You

26:27

still doing a lot of therapy? No, I never did

26:29

a lot of therapy. I've gone to therapy at different

26:31

times of my life. I'm pretty aware of who I

26:33

am. And I don't ever think,

26:35

I have a real problem with people

26:37

that characterize comedy as some sort of

26:39

therapy for the comedian, because I don't

26:41

really think that's the deal.

26:44

And I do fairly personal stuff, but this

26:46

is my point of view. And this is

26:48

how I see people through my experience. So

26:51

if I'm going to share that experience, and

26:53

it is a common experience with the people

26:55

that come, then we're all good. But I

26:57

know what my problems are. I don't

27:00

need to go into therapy to reassess

27:02

them. I know they are.

27:04

And some of them have gotten better. How about

27:06

you? Not doing a lot of

27:08

therapy. Did you ever? Yeah, I did quite a lot of stuff,

27:11

but lots of kind of CBT,

27:13

cognitive behavioral therapy. What is it? It's like thought

27:17

pass. Well, I know what cognitive behavior therapy is.

27:19

That's basically, don't do that. And you

27:21

remember not to do it. A little bit.

27:23

A little bit. A little bit. Lots of NLP as

27:25

well. Lots of stuff that was kind of neuro-linguistic programming.

27:27

Yeah, I've never heard of that. What is that? It's

27:30

very similar, actually. It's a lot of the

27:32

stuff from cognitive behavioral therapy. So it's kind

27:36

of going, look, the map is

27:38

not the territory. What you imagine the world to

27:40

be, your perception of the world is everything. And

27:42

changing your perception is easier than changing the world.

27:45

So it's that kind of thing of going, look, disposition

27:47

is more important than position. And

27:49

changing your disposition, changing the world is very

27:51

difficult. Changing your disposition is a bit easier.

27:53

Well, that's interesting because that's a slippery slope

27:56

to being brain fucks. If

27:59

you're from perception is all there is, that's where

28:01

you get into that weird place of like, you know, what

28:03

is a fact? Well, it's something

28:05

I believe because it makes me feel like

28:08

it's right. Yeah. I mean, I'm not

28:10

quite... No, I'm not. But yeah, you're

28:12

saying it's a practical approach to adjusting your

28:14

perception so it's not all falling down on

28:16

you. Yeah. So if you have

28:18

a problem that you need to kind of change the way

28:20

you think about that rather than thinking about, oh, well, you

28:22

know, I don't like that thing. I don't want to feel

28:24

uncomfortable. You go, well, actually, reframing it is often a very

28:27

valuable thing. So if you kind of... If you

28:29

go into life kind of thing, well, pressure is a privilege, right?

28:31

So if you have that as a kind of mantra and you

28:33

go, okay, this is going to be a difficult thing, but

28:35

I'm excited about it, or you could say

28:37

I'm terrified. Right. And it really makes

28:40

a difference to how the gig goes. Where does this is

28:42

going to suck fall in? This

28:44

is going to suck happens. Yeah,

28:46

but that's not terrified or excited. It's

28:49

more slightly diminishing. So

28:51

if it's even a little better than that,

28:53

it's good. Well, I slightly believe happiness. There's

28:56

a couple of definitions of happiness that I work with.

28:58

And one is, right, it's expectations

29:00

exceeded, right? Why is your birthday is awful?

29:02

Birthdays are always worse because it's meant to

29:04

be the best night and it's, yeah, your

29:07

friends came and it was nice. Yeah. New

29:09

Year's, it's like awful. Terrible. I

29:12

just don't do anything though. Do you? No.

29:15

But it's a night for amateur drinkers. Sure. Even

29:17

birthday, my last birthday was good. 60 was

29:19

good. Good friends. Congratulations. Thank

29:21

you. But that thing of

29:23

like going sometimes a random Tuesday night in the club or

29:26

a show where you kind of go, it's not the biggest.

29:28

Actually, before we start recording, talking about you played a big

29:30

room with a big reputation. Yeah. Great.

29:33

But sometimes when you just play the little place in the small

29:35

town and the crowd is there for you, it's just amazing and

29:37

it's kind of blows your mind. Yeah, for me, if I can

29:39

get out of myself and find the stuff,

29:42

if things happen, that's when

29:44

it really happens. Like usually my best show is... Well, you

29:46

find it on stage. I do. I find

29:48

that terrifying as an idea. But to me, that's like just

29:50

the way... Because

29:52

lately, it amazes me because if

29:54

I do that, like if I have a premise,

29:57

I already get laughs, but it's not full yet.

30:00

It's gonna fill itself out is the moment it

30:02

happens. I don't know where that comes from It's

30:04

a fucking magic You know It's like it just

30:07

comes out of the ether because I've put myself

30:09

in a position where I have to be funny

30:11

and I'm that Way anyways, but I don't know

30:13

where it's gonna go And if I have the

30:15

freedom of mind and something comes I'm like wow,

30:17

that was great But is that like that's it's

30:19

almost like your your gaming

30:23

The flow state of stand-up comedy you're going. Okay. I'm

30:25

gonna back myself into a corner That's it in front

30:27

of 200 people. Yeah in a club, right and they've

30:29

all come and paid to see me and going up

30:31

their Evening. Yes, and I got nothing. I got two

30:34

lines on a bit of paper and no I don't

30:36

know where it is going. No, I'll have I'll at

30:38

least have premises that are getting laughs Okay, but I

30:40

know that they're gonna evolve Right.

30:42

So but that's the I'm not gonna go up

30:44

there and just like have nothing I don't

30:47

do that right, but you got there you got the

30:49

beginning of the idea I've got enough of the idea

30:51

to where it's funny and then I just

30:53

like I wait for it to fill in Over

30:56

a few months. Yeah, it's great. You

30:58

put it all on paper. You're like a mathematician Yeah,

31:02

I like much more much less alchemy much

31:04

more science in terms of like

31:06

well, you can tell that's your style Yeah, I

31:08

mean it's the I think it chose me though

31:10

Cuz when I started out like I was obviously

31:12

I'm watching like Steven Reitner Phillips and Rita Rudner

31:14

and gag-to-gag Comedy or Joker. Yeah, I'm a joke

31:16

guy But you kind of you want I'm trying

31:18

to move with the last special I tried to

31:20

do a couple of much longer bit I noticed

31:22

that and I'm trying to do a much longer

31:24

bit now in the new one in the new

31:26

tour Where I'm just trying to work

31:28

a different muscle. I've got a fastball and I

31:31

respect the fact people come and see me and It's

31:34

a service industry, right? Did someone's paid their money to

31:36

come and see a show I'm gonna deliver Can be

31:38

edgy one-liners for as many as you need and

31:41

then I want to be able to surprise them a

31:43

little bit and move it a Little bit better as

31:45

a performer. I watched a special last night and I

31:47

noticed yeah I noticed there were a couple bits where

31:49

you were making points where you you know you you

31:51

had the gags But they were going they were of

31:54

a piece You know that you

31:56

were trying to a longer piece all the

31:58

jokes were there, but but you

32:00

were still trying to make certain points that were a little

32:02

longer than you usually do. Yeah, I think it's, I'm trying

32:04

to grow as a performer. I'm just trying to get a

32:06

little bit better. Trying to get outside my comfort zone. I

32:08

think that thing of like being outside your comfort zone is

32:10

a very good idea. But I think also just not outside

32:12

your comfort zone, but you are, you know,

32:14

if your point of view is just doing, you

32:17

know, edgy one-liners, I mean, you can do whatever

32:20

you want. I mean, if that's your style, but

32:22

if at some point you want to engage a

32:24

point of view, it's a different

32:26

thing. It is different than that. And you know what I've really

32:28

enjoyed. Like the last couple of years, I wrote a book a

32:30

couple of years ago. I kind of heard biography, but

32:32

it was a bit self-helpy. It was like all the stuff that had helped

32:35

me. Kind of a, you know, I'm

32:37

into all that. I read all those books and I really

32:39

liked the idea of like, yeah, that's my

32:41

kind of thing of like, that's what got me

32:43

out of my nine to five. All

32:46

of those kind of Eckhart Tolle things of like, this

32:48

is it. You

32:51

know, an experience with grief where I, I

32:53

kind of got a theory on grief where it's like, grief

32:56

is cumulative, right? So when the, in

32:59

terms of in life? In life, yeah. So

33:01

my dog passed away recently and I was

33:03

just in a puddle. I just couldn't, it's

33:05

just awful. And it's because it partly it

33:07

links to everyone you've lost and partly it's

33:09

about your own mortality. And that idea of

33:11

like, now that old, I think

33:14

it's Confucius. Every man's got two lives and

33:16

he second begins when he realizes he only has one, right?

33:18

And you go, okay, it's kind of a hack thing. You

33:20

could have that on a pin cushion and sell it on

33:23

Etsy. Or you could twist it into a joke. It really

33:25

hit me. You know, that thing of like, oh,

33:28

this is lost. You can just do this now. Lost. Yeah.

33:31

It reframes like outside of the the

33:33

lingual, what is that CP? What? Neuro-linguistic

33:36

programming. Neuro-NLP. Yeah, that's it.

33:39

Outside of NLP, you know,

33:41

what grief does is it, emotionally

33:44

and maybe not spiritually,

33:46

but it's just your perception of

33:48

how fragile life is. You know, it's

33:50

not, and there's no way around it. You know,

33:52

there's that moment where you realize if

33:54

someone you love or something

33:57

you love gets lost or

33:59

dies, That you know it it

34:02

creates a whole I don't know

34:04

if you want to say soul But but it

34:06

it it wakes up that part of

34:08

you that that makes you very present

34:11

and very sad But also you realize

34:13

like well This is this is

34:15

gonna happen and the the highest agency

34:17

people I think I've ever come across

34:20

Other dying like if you meet someone

34:22

who's got six months to live or a year or

34:24

whatever they they know they've got stage four And it's

34:26

like okay. This is it. Oh my god. They're tolerance

34:29

for bullshit Is gone

34:31

why would you have it but but

34:33

also we're all dying it's yeah It's

34:35

the brief what's that lovely

34:37

line about it's a brief

34:39

sliver of light Between two

34:42

oceans of darkness yeah this idea that before

34:44

we were born after we're dead It's like

34:46

this little we get to die

34:48

and we're the lucky ones so now what are you

34:50

like constantly scrambling to? Cycle

34:53

you know to are you dep

34:55

were you depressed what compelled you?

34:58

You know to become this person to put this puzzle

35:00

together in so many different ways I got Suffered

35:03

a tiny bit with depression not not much

35:06

And what was the cathartic shift anxiety was

35:08

a huge thing for me a huge problem

35:10

with anxiety when you were younger before

35:12

comedy no kind of The

35:15

last maybe yeah in comedy I

35:17

think slightly before before comedy it was it

35:20

wasn't depression I think these words kind of

35:22

get conflated and depression and what depression and

35:24

sadness get conflated sure and sadness is Circumstance

35:27

if you're sad you're very lucky because proper

35:29

depression proper actual okay You ever you need

35:31

to take something because something's not right in

35:33

your brain chemistry I mean

35:35

the worst it's the what I like when someone tells you

35:37

they're like you know bipolar something go oh my god It's

35:40

a heartbreak it isn't what can you do the weight of

35:42

it? Just yeah, but if you're

35:44

sad if you go well, I I've made some

35:46

choices I need to take responsibility for this and

35:48

yeah, and someone's died and you go. This

35:50

is my only shot This is it. I

35:52

got I'm working for an oil company. What

35:55

the fuck am I doing you were working

35:57

for an oil company looking for shell oil yeah

36:00

What was I, I was

36:02

leading someone's life, I don't know what

36:04

it was. It almost feels like waking up from

36:06

a dream. Yeah. But like what was

36:08

the process there? Where'd you grow up? I grew up

36:10

in a place called Slough,

36:12

in and around Slough. So

36:15

Irish immigrant parents, so first generation immigrant

36:17

to the UK. Really? Yeah,

36:19

so I was like, I was born in England but

36:21

I carry an Irish passport. And it's

36:24

a weird thing. I'm very aware of who I am,

36:26

but I'm also aware of how I'm perceived. I

36:29

think there's a weird thing where... I

36:31

didn't know what to make of you. Yeah, but if

36:33

I talk about like, I don't know, being

36:36

an immigrant or anxiety, people go,

36:39

no, no, no, no, no, you seem fine.

36:41

No, you seem like a British gentleman that

36:43

went to a public school. And you go,

36:45

that isn't me, but I'm aware of how

36:47

I'm perceived in the world, but also who

36:49

I am. But you

36:52

have, your stage for Sony is strong. And I

36:54

felt when I first met you, I remember I

36:56

tried to get you on the show before, and

36:58

I literally thought like, he's

37:01

not going to talk about himself in

37:03

that way, in the way that I talk about it. I

37:05

think when you asked me very kindly to

37:07

be on the show before, I'm not ready for this at all. Okay,

37:10

so I wasn't on. No, you weren't wrong. No, no,

37:12

no, it's like, that's my stage persona, that's what I

37:14

do. And then the rest is

37:17

mine. When you get interviewed, when you get interviewed

37:19

on the Tonight Show or

37:22

a chat show, it's a very different thing than

37:24

this. I'm really enjoying this. I think it's

37:26

like, it's helping the comedy because

37:28

you're kind of going, I can make a couple of

37:30

points. I was sitting age, 50. I

37:33

think there's something about the weight of

37:35

that and how that feels, it makes a bit more sense. But

37:37

when I met you, I'm trying to think, it must have been,

37:39

the first time I met you was probably in Edinburgh, like

37:42

2007. And

37:46

right after my divorce, I was not having a good time.

37:48

I think I met you with Morgan Murphy. Yeah, you were

37:50

having a bad time, I think. I think it's fair to

37:52

say you were having a bad time. It's

37:55

weird, I don't think your success has

37:57

engendered one bit of envy. By

38:00

anyone else because it's so clear the

38:03

the what you've had to go through

38:05

to get to this It's

38:07

like keep pushing Jimmy. I keep pushing. Yeah, but it's

38:09

the pathology. Yeah to be Mark Marin. No one's going.

38:11

Yeah, I want some of that Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

38:13

sometimes you see someone on it easy. You see someone

38:15

on stage. You see Jerry Seinfeld on stage You go.

38:18

I wish I could have that. Yeah, and it looks

38:20

so easy. Yes, of course. You don't see the pathology

38:22

there Yeah, but so now you feel

38:24

more comfortable Talking about it because

38:26

maybe when I met you because that's already what is

38:28

that 15 years ago 16 years ago Were

38:32

you were you in the pursuit of well-mindedness

38:34

at that point? Yeah No, I was I was

38:36

kind of in the pursuit of it and I

38:38

was I think I'd made the first big shift

38:40

Like I think getting into comedy for me was

38:42

at 25. I felt so old. I

38:44

felt like when you were working at Shell Yeah, I felt like

38:47

life had passed me by I felt like what

38:49

am I doing? Well, I was very well educated We

38:51

really like fancy. Yeah fancy education, but they but

38:54

like that thing of like going I don't

38:56

really know what I'm not I'm not happy. Why'd you end

38:58

up there? I think it was

39:00

just like it was the same reason I ended

39:02

up at the university It was like the line

39:04

of least resistance. I'd never really made a decision

39:06

I just done the next thing

39:08

that you do but you were kind of you

39:10

must have been a worker You must have focus

39:13

you to where'd you go to school? No went

39:15

to Cambridge. That's fancy Yeah, fancy, but no interest

39:17

in comedy at that time I

39:19

mean, I liked it. I like like seeing

39:21

it. Yeah, no, no, no interest. No, no,

39:23

no idea that show business Could

39:25

be a job. What did your folks do? Mother

39:29

was a nurse and my father was

39:31

like something in accounts. I Don't

39:34

know went to an office. I Took

39:37

there's so many people that don't know what their

39:39

father's actually do. No, I mean I'm I'm Literally

39:42

no idea the it's a weird thing like

39:44

that's always my I don't know what you

39:46

feel about that That's always my go-to question

39:48

for comedians. Which of your parents were sick.

39:51

Mm-hmm And I didn't

39:53

realize until years later that I

39:55

was entirely enmeshed with my mother.

39:57

I was Incredibly close to

39:59

my mother mother and was kind of a

40:01

substitute. Yeah, I was that husband. I

40:03

got a little of that from very early on

40:06

because my dad was, you know, out

40:08

doing whatever. Yeah, he was around, but

40:10

he was a doctor and he was

40:12

consumed. He was, you know, out

40:15

there doing, I don't need to do

40:18

stuff. Yeah, you know, but but

40:20

not present, but yeah, I guess I

40:22

got a meshed with her, but both of

40:24

them were so selfish I don't really see them as

40:26

parents as much as people I grew up with that

40:28

had problems. You lived with a couple when you were

40:30

young. Yeah, yeah, I did. Me and my brother. No,

40:32

they weren't that nice. They were

40:35

difficult, but they meant

40:38

well. But so wait, so you were meshed with your

40:40

mother and you feel like what was, what

40:42

did that make you? Like

40:45

what is your pathology and relation to that? How

40:47

do you think that affected you? Well, I think

40:49

I had a very tough time

40:51

with women growing up. So I was like, I was

40:53

a virgin until I was like 26. I was really

40:55

kind of, wow, that is quite like, ambitiously,

40:58

yeah, it's very unusual. I mean, it's, I

41:00

know, kind of embarrassed about it, but it's

41:02

like you're very kind of shut

41:05

down. You know, I had

41:07

loads of kind of loads of friends. I've gone very well with people,

41:09

but it's like it was just a real block and then yeah, I

41:13

think that's just because I had a very close relationship with my mother. What about

41:15

your dad? I haven't seen him in 25 years.

41:18

How do you, how do you carry that? Very

41:21

lightly. I think it's like that Al-Anon thing you detach.

41:24

Oh you do. So that's where you're at with it.

41:26

Yeah, you detach with love. It's like, it's a lovely,

41:28

it's some of these things as well. Like, you know,

41:30

they sound very dime-store wisdom, but

41:32

there's something, there's something really lovely

41:34

about that, that other people have been through. If you

41:36

can do it, you can kind of go, look, I

41:39

don't wish any ill. I wish you all the best.

41:42

I can't have you in my life. No spite? No.

41:45

No. What happened? Why is he out?

41:48

Ah, sir. Yeah? Nah, I keep on getting

41:50

sued. Oh. By

41:53

him? Yeah. I go. I implied

41:56

that he was a narcissist in my

41:59

book. Yeah. And there's like one

42:01

line about him. I say, and

42:04

he sued me for calling him a narcissist,

42:06

which strikes me as fairly narcissistic. Yeah. My

42:09

dad did the same thing. I

42:13

wrote a book. I wrote a book and

42:15

I was honest about him. He's bipolar and

42:17

narcissistic. But

42:19

he is part of my story and it upset him.

42:22

I called him up and he's like, he thought it

42:25

would get him in trouble somehow. I

42:27

said, well, what do you want? You want money? And

42:29

he goes, yeah. And I go,

42:32

how much? And he goes, $100,000. I said, I'll give you five. And

42:40

I did. But I'm okay with him

42:42

now. Actually, Brennan again gave

42:44

me the line on narcissism. Who? Neil

42:46

Brennan. When

42:49

you have a narcissist in your life, they

42:51

have the disease, you have the symptoms. That's

42:53

interesting. It's like, oh, he's done

42:56

a lot of work on himself. Oh,

42:58

Neil. Yeah. He's pretty happy now.

43:00

Dude, 10th kid of like an

43:03

Irish drunk family. Not

43:05

easy. Yeah. So you did some Allen on, huh?

43:08

A little bit. Not too much. I mean, really

43:10

kind of went to one, read a lot around

43:12

it and then was

43:14

kind of embarrassed about it, but like just read a lot

43:16

about it. Was it a boozy thing? Did

43:19

you grow up in booze? No, no,

43:21

not booze. Not just like the

43:23

language of that just made sense to me. Yeah,

43:25

no. And it was that thing where you go,

43:27

it doesn't have to be your problem. It could

43:29

be someone else's problem. I didn't know that existed

43:31

until like, you know. No, me neither. You're dealing

43:33

with it for you. And you go, oh, it's

43:35

not alcoholics anonymous. It's for the people, the families

43:37

and loved ones. Oh, they have to. Yeah. Oh,

43:39

I see. Yeah. So they don't get dragged in.

43:41

They don't become the disease. Yeah.

43:44

No, I didn't. I'm still co-dependent

43:46

problems. It's still hard. Yeah.

43:49

It's still hard to detach and

43:52

not think, you know, like, but it's so selfish too, that

43:55

whole thing, codependency. Because selfish

43:58

because... Well, I mean, if you're active... codependent,

44:00

you know, you're assuming you have control

44:02

and sometimes, you know, that feeling of

44:04

trying to control somebody else or somebody

44:06

else's feelings is what you live for.

44:09

And if that's the case, you

44:12

know, that's your sickness. Yeah, well it's a

44:14

weird sickness to have because you're sort of

44:16

going, really when you think about what we do for

44:18

a living, you know, you say,

44:20

well you know, you can never be in charge of anyone

44:22

else's happiness and you often hear that in therapy and then

44:24

you go, yeah, but I do that for a living. Yeah,

44:26

I know, there's 2000 people I need, I'm in charge of

44:29

their happiness for two hours, so actually it sort

44:31

of is what I do. But

44:33

we figured, I know you think it's not important, but who do

44:35

you think is paying your bill? We figured out a way around

44:38

it, that we can engage it in

44:41

a professional way and then not

44:43

do it a personal way. Well I always think

44:45

that thing about the sick parent thing is the,

44:47

you know, the thermostat on the room, like learning

44:49

that early on, that pathology of

44:52

like learning how to make things okay

44:54

in the weird atmosphere house when someone

44:56

gets home and you go, I'm gonna

44:58

make this all right. And

45:00

it's, I used to do a

45:02

bit about it, about my mom telling me that my

45:04

dad was, when he was depressed, she would say, why don't

45:06

you go upstairs and make your father laugh, you're the

45:08

only one who can. Ooh, tough crowd,

45:11

I tell you. I

45:14

mean, that's just, how

45:16

old were you at that point? In

45:19

my early teens, probably,

45:21

you know, 12, 13.

45:24

Yeah, well he's got dimension now, so I'm

45:26

dealing with a whole new person and not,

45:28

it's entertaining at times. Right.

45:33

I'm alright with him. I kind of let it go,

45:35

you know. Yeah, I mean you feel like you've been

45:37

through, I mean, the ringer. I

45:40

don't know, like I think

45:42

what happened for me, and I don't know if

45:44

this is what happened for you, is that if

45:46

you look at the positive qualities of

45:49

both of them and assess

45:51

those within you, there's

45:53

at least something to give them credit for, be

45:55

grateful for. And then if you identify

45:57

the negative ones that you also have, then you're going to

45:59

be kind of have to rewire

46:01

yourself, but you can't rewire them.

46:04

And you can either do that with resentment

46:06

or not. Like I'm still aggravated. My

46:09

father, it doesn't bother me. My mother,

46:11

they're both very old and they're both

46:13

still alive. But after a certain

46:15

point, even if you're angry, you got to let it

46:17

go, as long as it's not killing you. Because

46:19

I got a friend who's sad and talked to his

46:21

father in decades, and I don't think he's processed it.

46:24

And I think it hobbled him. It's

46:26

weird. I suppose that thing of like, you can't have

46:29

an easy life and a great character. You

46:32

know, so you go through it and you go,

46:34

well, whatever they gave you, whatever gifts you got

46:36

from that, whatever you became, that thing of like

46:38

gratitude as, I mean, I don't pray. But

46:41

I think having a gratitude practice where you just are

46:43

always thinking about how great you are. I

46:45

got to try to do that. You do that? Yeah. And

46:48

it's really like, not just in this, not just, oh, well, I'm

46:51

lucky because I get to do this job. But like, you know,

46:53

you're healthy and you were born. I think we were born, maybe

46:55

you and I, of the same generation

46:57

in the sweet spot. Yeah. Of

47:00

like, I'm 10 years older. Yeah. But in

47:02

terms of the technology through the idea that, you

47:04

know, the beginning of this comedy thing, this comedy

47:06

thing, I think we've been born 100 years ago.

47:09

I guess we would have been full of aliens or something,

47:11

but it's a different life. The idea that podcast

47:13

technology came along at this time and

47:15

became a thing like there's so many

47:18

factors that you go, wow, it's like,

47:20

yeah, all these, all these things aligned.

47:22

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

47:25

The cosmic timing of me finding the podcast medium,

47:27

you know, that was a Hail Mary dude. I

47:29

mean, I didn't know it would go anywhere and

47:31

I wasn't in good shape. It

47:33

worked out. You know, I had the right

47:36

skill set at the right moment and the timing, cosmic

47:38

timing just worked out. Well, then the thing of like

47:40

what you do on this, but also what you do

47:42

in stand up strikes me that

47:44

the, how to

47:46

sort of describe it, I suppose it's a bit like, like

47:49

in politics, there's like the Overton window. Yeah.

47:51

And then you can, and what you can't talk about

47:53

in politics, what, what is acceptable policy and what isn't

47:55

at any given time. Does that still hold? Well

47:58

I think it does because you get like people on the far left. or

48:00

the far right, or someone like Bernie Sanders

48:02

runs, and he changes it, or the libertarians.

48:04

No, and they're never going to get elected,

48:07

but they change things. They start talking about drug legalisation

48:09

in the 70s, and eventually it trickles through, and the

48:11

Democrats go, you know what? That's not a bad idea.

48:13

And so you change- And some things are turning out

48:16

not to be a great idea, apparently. But you change

48:18

what can and can't be talked about. I think the

48:20

thing that you sort of did on this, but also

48:22

in stand-up, is like, okay, so being

48:25

emotionally available. Who was

48:27

doing that in... It's

48:30

against our fundamental disposition professionally

48:33

to do it. So

48:35

yeah, I- They're meant to be hiding

48:37

from something. That's right. It's

48:39

a fundamentally defensive position. The

48:42

comedic position. And

48:44

I didn't know how else to do it, but

48:46

I appreciate the... I'll take that as a compliment.

48:48

Yeah, it's interesting. Because when you see the people

48:50

coming up as well, it's like, if you

48:52

kind of look at who's... What are people doing?

48:54

What are people trying to do? There's a real thing

48:56

in the UK of like, the Edinburgh Festival is like...

48:59

I know you had a bad experience, but it's kind

49:01

of great. People going up and doing hours and putting

49:03

on a full show, as opposed to just like 20

49:05

minutes in a club. They're putting on a full show

49:07

and they're giving of themselves. And there was kind of

49:09

a cliche in it for a while. People gave people

49:11

a hard time for doing their dad shows, whereas the

49:14

tragedy show. But actually, it kind of moved the whole

49:16

thing forward, where it's kind of... I

49:18

don't know, it feels like there's an interesting thing

49:20

where stand-up meets kind of what we would have

49:22

called a one-man show. Yeah, I know. A

49:25

biographical... I'd done those. I did those

49:27

years ago. In the late

49:29

90s, I did a one-person show because it was sort

49:31

of a thing in the 80s, with

49:33

performance artists. The format's kind

49:35

of interesting, but I resented

49:38

being attached to it, although

49:40

I did one. I understand why people

49:42

condescend the one-person show. I

49:45

kind of don't get it. I don't get it. I sort

49:47

of think comedy is such a broad church. The

49:49

idea that they go, oh, this isn't a gag every

49:52

30 seconds, so it's not for me. Well, watch something

49:54

else. No, I get that. I get that. I

49:57

write this line in my mind.

50:00

one person shows, I've done serious

50:02

shit, I'm certainly not always funny

50:04

here, but there is something about

50:07

the skill set of comedy as

50:10

I learned it, you know,

50:12

and the dues that I

50:15

paid were specific. There was a way to

50:17

pay your dues and, you know,

50:19

there's part of me that I can't get around that. I

50:21

honor that. Whether people see that I

50:24

do or not, I honor that. Like if

50:26

I'm going to work out even the most

50:28

emotionally wrenching material, I'm going to do it

50:30

in a club and I'm going to do

50:32

it in 15-minute sets. Because I,

50:34

for some reason, and it's starting to fade a

50:36

little bit, it's important for me that

50:39

it works there, where people don't

50:41

know me necessarily, they're at the

50:43

comedy store. I absolutely, I

50:45

mean, I so buy this. I can see this

50:47

now in Mike Pabiglio.

50:50

I see Mike does these beautiful one-man

50:53

shows and they're fantastic and they're beautiful and

50:55

they're like, it's like it's carved out of

50:57

marble. But then if you know Mike and

50:59

you hang with Mike, you know he's at the comedy cellar

51:01

working out that five-minute set and that five-minute

51:03

section so that every little bit of it

51:05

works. Yeah, his craft is in place, man.

51:07

Yeah, because you have to, you

51:10

know, have to, but you sugaring the pill and

51:12

going, well, actually, well, this isn't a TED Talk.

51:15

People are coming, they need to laugh

51:17

and that thing of like the catharsis of

51:19

saying, well, I live in a button-down world

51:21

and I'm not talking to my family and

51:23

I'm not talking to my friends and people

51:25

at the office and I feel like I'm

51:27

self-censoring the whole time. And then you

51:29

come and see a show where someone opens up and

51:32

it's that cathartic experience. But also you go and

51:34

see incredibly edgy jokes and you go, oh,

51:36

it's cathartic. That's right. But you also

51:38

know with Mike and with some of the stuff I do as

51:40

well that, you know, he's done that

51:42

work. So no matter how deep it's going to be

51:45

or potentially emotional, because

51:47

he's taken it out there and

51:49

worked it out in the basements,

51:53

He has control over it, right? You know, like

51:55

when I was working out the shit about Lynn

51:57

dying, like I was doing it. And

52:00

small theater is to sort of move through. It's

52:02

because I knew that I am a was not

52:04

to. I'm not gonna have a handle on it

52:06

so I'm not going to bring to a club

52:09

but I'll stretch out and maybe cry in front

52:11

of my audience. who knows me and they know

52:13

what I'm doing until I figure out the the

52:15

where I can find the level why can find

52:17

the comedy and it's that's going to be consistent

52:20

Rights mice. So I was in. It's a very

52:22

interesting thing of like. When.

52:25

A dark sense of humor has a

52:27

benefit. You know, when When is

52:29

this? when? when is this like So things

52:31

like from a darwinian evolutionary point of us,

52:33

like why have a sense of humor. While.

52:36

I. It's like pattern recognition. Honest.

52:38

Linguistic skills so it's it's very useful in kind

52:40

of practice of it is disarming people before they

52:43

hurt you. You. To

52:45

me, see your childhood for details.

52:48

Yet, but then aesthetics is also that

52:50

thing. If you go it's the is

52:52

the idea that you can kind of

52:54

ah. You

52:57

can express something. In.

52:59

A dark joke. And people can

53:01

then use it on their worst day.

53:03

that oh that's exactly as people to

53:05

get me out that everyone's going to

53:07

deal with disease and death and we're

53:09

losing money and losing jobs and terrible

53:11

things happening in not getting into the

53:14

school. Human rights. And if you're. If

53:16

you don't like.com and a few it is not for

53:18

you and your easily offended and and death or so

53:20

so Bassett Obsessed. A white knuckle. The

53:22

whole of life Yeah, where she goes

53:25

on those days after like the extreme

53:27

example is is our life is beautiful.

53:29

The absolute extreme. Have.

53:32

Someone. In the in attempts shirt and mobile

53:34

to having a sense of humor and and

53:36

that I did a bit about that. I'm

53:39

a special Federal. There had to be hilarious

53:41

people in Auschwitz. I mean it was for

53:43

juice feel. The it's one of the language

53:45

of stand up is kind of linked to

53:47

the it's It's not as the toma is

53:49

is that atomic as the is the question

53:51

and answer. The Talmud at Tom Tom it

53:53

is it that almonds? Yeah, I saw the

53:55

but that question answers Yeah yeah yeah he's

53:57

kind of. The languages are the winners of

53:59

comedy. was. Wish for a while Stand Up!

54:01

Yeah it is as the heritage but but like

54:03

was talking about darkness. you know cause like a

54:05

lot of times I don't see myself as dark

54:07

but I am. I know that's an ambulance. it's

54:09

an emotional.sights the subject matter the one line or

54:12

about something that's doc is are easy to spot.

54:14

But I always thought you know you struck me

54:16

as a dark person. Yeah,

54:18

but it's a different kind of know.

54:20

But I mean as a person you

54:22

are a as I morning. Now you

54:24

are person that struggled to have some

54:26

sort of way of getting through life

54:28

to where you were protecting yourself from

54:30

something's weather, was anxiety or or hopelessness

54:32

or whatever. Yeah, I mean that was

54:34

the journey right? Yeah. I mean,

54:36

it's still the journey rise. I still lived, still

54:38

the thing. We. Did you? are

54:41

you religious ever? Death Very Catholic. So much

54:43

a proper believe me was dug in. Young.

54:46

You had a hell in your head. Yes

54:48

yes I had as I didn't get

54:50

any of those the reason so so

54:52

much later adding them what I did

54:54

because it's to times kinds of idiot

54:56

right The people that believe the fairy

54:58

stories and as people think religion has

55:00

no purpose and economical with us both

55:02

extremes are kind of notify has a

55:04

lot I seek I am eager. it

55:06

definitely has a purpose I don't I

55:08

don't fuck with belief as much as

55:10

a fuck with religion. I understand why

55:12

people need to believe. I. Guess

55:14

that, but I do. I'm doing a line on

55:16

stage our i'm like you know, if you're if

55:18

you believe in God you're you're fucking believe anything.

55:21

So if you've already open that door, you gotta

55:23

be pretty vigilant. Suppose Yeah,

55:25

it's a it's a really and it's an interesting

55:27

point. Yeah it's three years What they the and

55:29

what's the great is t take just as an

55:31

idea that we said death. If you don't believe

55:33

in anything you believe in anything. Interesting

55:35

getting what those stories on me I didn't

55:38

come to me and so so much later

55:40

in life like like God is the future.

55:43

So so God is meant to be sacked the

55:45

like. Sacrifice. Now here for a

55:47

better tomorrow. The end. So that thing of us,

55:49

get that on and get what that was meant

55:51

to be adding. Get the i make no sense.

55:54

But. The idea of my yes are sort

55:56

of almost like religion is the most mellow

55:59

test. You have one now or two tomorrow

56:01

know? yeah getting I mean I never commented

56:03

about it but never never got that know

56:05

I never got kind of. The bigger picture

56:07

is obsessed with all your mixer. it's irrational

56:10

look at all says Ms kind of the

56:12

I think the big mistake religion made in

56:14

in my humble opinion on and I hope

56:16

the Vatican Alison I think Vatican Two was

56:19

the mistake because.akin to what was when they

56:21

said oh let's translate this into local languages.

56:23

never can understand it. Know.

56:26

The. Point of it seems we coded understand

56:28

the point of it was it's a

56:30

mystery keep him keep it weird with

56:32

the big robes he i'm eagerly emily

56:34

incense and I don't think you mean

56:36

there's cathedral in Italy just filled with

56:39

dead wizards. Thing is it's it's crazy

56:41

It's like cities but it there is

56:43

a mystery out that allowed we need

56:45

something to I'm Pete Holmes grimaces Great

56:47

London ah sing his book movies talking

56:49

about and it's that I think it's

56:51

of roadie from a C D C

56:53

said this aka he said the is

56:55

where I go. My wisdom from he said

56:57

does God is the name we give to the

57:00

blanket we throw the mystery to give it's shape.

57:03

I. Really like that. I went. Oh

57:06

yeah and and he angus started whole lotta

57:08

rosie but city perhaps as had us but

57:10

then you are with whether that's that you

57:12

know that some people it's a science or

57:14

religion or what as or whatever their beliefs

57:16

thing that they go with. this is my

57:18

transference I do. you need to be sealed

57:20

part of something bigger than yourself to give

57:22

your life definition and away at and that

57:25

to be standing in nature or children already

57:27

whatever the thing is view but it's an

57:29

incredibly important thing we are You know in

57:31

this is another party or special were a

57:33

feels to me that you did a year

57:35

fairly. Yo. Grounded

57:38

point of view about religion through a series

57:40

of jokes, I was a larger chunk than

57:42

I'd seen you do before. yeah that was

57:44

it was interest as very interesting doing that.

57:46

Another mark. Doing. That that be

57:49

about religion which is it's good in the

57:51

Uk and it's edgy You notes Sarah Baiji

57:53

It's a while we probably should have said

57:55

that as a bit much, but here. It.

57:57

Feels like it's that there's an

57:59

excitement. In a room? Oh yeah, when used when

58:01

you say those, they say it as a it's a

58:04

dearth. I kind of hadn't noticed how much more. I'm.

58:08

A Christian America is so yes Yannick actually when you

58:10

get out to discuss it spent a lot i mean

58:12

you can a lights and had not gonna help to

58:14

see the other cities and you gonna be signal quite

58:16

attack. Yeah. I'll It's unlike know things to

58:19

mine's I did this the i'm gonna sit down

58:21

where I'd tell them I said the subject. Really?

58:25

But. It is Scott is the logic is

58:27

tight and I like doing it. And

58:29

I say i. I think Christianity,

58:31

as at it's core, is a bit anti

58:33

semitic. And. I say I

58:35

because like the core idea, Christianity is

58:38

the only really good use a dead

58:40

you. Subscribe

58:43

joke. It's working now East Those are

58:45

those groups you gotta make still couple

58:47

jokes any not you must know it

58:49

where you you believe in it and

58:51

if first people I go yet if

58:54

you keep getting more comfortable with it.

58:56

He does ensure you will find his lived all

58:58

my my. My theory on that is that you

59:01

go I love this line so much in the

59:03

audience don't like at sea change hello best and

59:05

then they still don't like and then he turns

59:07

another this Mr Malik and ensure you know but

59:10

and eventually to totally different line right with a

59:12

different kind of structure but you you can trace

59:14

it back in your head to guy ever I

59:16

never compromised on nothing see out. Ultimately it's that

59:19

servicing the great thing about job could be obese.

59:21

that one beat I sometimes such let me sometimes

59:23

you are falling the line through indigestion. Yeah just

59:25

like I'll pause in. The wrong place because I'm

59:27

off one by us and and it'll get a

59:29

big a lofty this. oh that's interesting. I was

59:31

doing that wrong the last year. The A guy?

59:33

Yeah, what a way to be whatever. Especially with

59:35

the. With a joke, the jokes and

59:38

the of that timing is yourself it upon. My

59:40

theory is it's ninety two. Beats a minute seems

59:42

to be the right speed. Really big smoker who

59:44

worked it up memoir it seems to be for

59:46

i spend a lotta love. Before recorded a special

59:48

i literally fauna playlist of ninety two beats a

59:50

minute and try to get into that kind of

59:52

group. It just seems to be the right mean

59:54

a playlist of ninety to beat him. and he

59:56

mean just sit on ratifying. Yeah, none of the

59:58

just on spotify you can just do. The niger to

1:00:00

be to minutes and I'll just play you are a bunch

1:00:02

of songs that are in that. Really? Yeah.

1:00:05

It's. Great I like so it's like I would

1:00:07

you get that number. I. Was checking

1:00:09

my my friend a Mandarin I working on a

1:00:12

book about Stand Up and we started looking at

1:00:14

Stand Up. The kind of looking at where they're

1:00:16

they're rum. Emphasis was

1:00:18

yes and to a looking and kind of and

1:00:20

she's a jazz musician I live by by training

1:00:22

as a will kind of looking at and going

1:00:24

oh it does seem that. It does

1:00:26

matter how fast or slow someone, so can you say

1:00:29

in the beats? About that and it

1:00:31

seems that spoken word wise and the audience.

1:00:33

To Into or a Rhythm and are you

1:00:35

like directing? see director my last two to

1:00:38

live shows. Maybe she's just listen to a

1:00:40

tell for an hour. And. See what

1:00:42

you get that I bet east are they doing

1:00:44

it that I wonder about it but that things

1:00:46

like going. you're looking

1:00:48

at back kind of book. When

1:00:50

the audience slag. What? Else is going

1:00:52

on. The did the material get weaker of the forty five

1:00:54

is what did you get tired? And. You sped

1:00:57

up or did you not filling the gap nurses

1:00:59

and in the necessary way. I think it's both

1:01:01

when you doing less eight and for myself I

1:01:03

could be doing. Almost. Exactly the same

1:01:05

show that when I was getting ready for the our

1:01:07

fiancee during an hour and she can be see a

1:01:09

couple of times. here we go, I didn't work as

1:01:11

well. yeah nice. why would you use but it's interesting

1:01:13

years met up you didn't you didn't So what was

1:01:16

the other thing going on that wasn't the lines wasn't

1:01:18

the well you this is so them frequency. Of.

1:01:20

Of the lines missouri meticulous in any it's so

1:01:22

he had centers in your self conscious of it.

1:01:25

Well as a the other thing I'm going through

1:01:27

the i'd I'd never really thought to do before

1:01:29

was going through for joke types are just taking

1:01:31

shit out of nowhere to any going to repeat

1:01:34

yourself what? yep at that it's amazing actually want

1:01:36

to what something if I want to stand up

1:01:38

unhappiest and if i relax and go to bit

1:01:40

boring oh such as to pullback reveals right again

1:01:43

and again the I think they need they do.

1:01:45

Everything's a hook, Everything's a hook Everything's a hook

1:01:47

they need to adjust. Pretty funny about rhythm though

1:01:49

cause like a. Tell even make noises to

1:01:51

keep his rhythm going. Many seal do a

1:01:54

job. We have her their their their managers

1:01:56

goes in cycles like he notices rid of

1:01:58

so well that sometimes he'll. If make noises

1:02:00

at eighty noise is will sometimes if he he'll

1:02:02

get a laugh and the line he won't have

1:02:05

got the mine right. Yeah yeah because it's his.

1:02:07

Timing is so fucking solid to death to America

1:02:09

before whereas I've delivered a a punchline from the

1:02:11

Wrong Joke we have you chosen another time he

1:02:13

over thirty but the timing was so perfect. Oh

1:02:16

god and Rickles made sense half the time it

1:02:18

was all time and I mean he he would

1:02:20

say things that they have said that all muslims

1:02:22

I play Vegas for the first on the other

1:02:24

night and I was really like thinking about Don

1:02:27

Rickles. yeah law and so I think that's that's

1:02:29

heritage things less. My gosh Wow what a

1:02:31

what a nice! On this new special you

1:02:33

do some yoga, a extensive crowd work. That

1:02:36

goes places you give a a a young

1:02:38

man or a life lesson. Items that was

1:02:40

kind of i me for me that was

1:02:42

a very I target and the pandemic and

1:02:45

it was that thing of someone said all

1:02:47

it's obvious. You. To consent is obvious. I

1:02:49

think yes it is to all of us. He

1:02:51

added to seventeen year old boys the I think

1:02:53

nothing of like going on I'm skyn a steak

1:02:55

the of his l make it as funny as

1:02:57

I can. yeah but I what is interesting of

1:02:59

going. On not wrong about anything in that it's

1:03:01

just it's It's a nice thing to hear it from us and

1:03:03

they'll take it from me. My. of what's interesting

1:03:05

about you is that enough cause I in I

1:03:07

put you in a in a place where. You

1:03:11

have a define stage persona that does

1:03:13

a thing and and you have your

1:03:15

thing and it is. It's all edgy

1:03:17

jokes, it's all yeah shocking jokes that

1:03:19

are he a beautifully written by like

1:03:21

in the special like I was surprised

1:03:23

as I go back in the daddy

1:03:25

no I didn't have we we all

1:03:27

have a conversation necessarily only because I

1:03:29

didn't have you ever got out from

1:03:31

under that seeing. That. You do but

1:03:33

you know you have that opinions and in

1:03:36

I thought yeah we all had our backs

1:03:38

jokes you know at the time and yes

1:03:40

as your vaxjo we are engaging the audience

1:03:42

and we did was is very clever away

1:03:45

to posit the idea because I imagine something

1:03:47

not the same but similar about like you

1:03:49

know how many people with polio do we

1:03:51

have I mean the the idea of it

1:03:54

you know in conversation with a guy would

1:03:56

Mr Bean and anti vax or the position

1:03:58

is good position. There a slightly

1:04:00

a straw man but I'm setting up a nuggets

1:04:02

because it is that thing where I'm so going

1:04:04

on taking. Anti. To feed vaccine

1:04:07

people and the anti vax lunatics the don't like

1:04:09

or any back of of course was which is

1:04:11

it's it's a sleight of hand There were to

1:04:13

be unfair on the guy in the audience just

1:04:15

just as I know those people don't I don't

1:04:17

know if it's not unfair because he know whatever

1:04:19

different Asian they're making between vaccines is not really

1:04:21

the issue. The issue is is that we believe

1:04:23

science at one point in time was in in

1:04:25

the benefit of public safety Un M when it

1:04:27

became a wedge issue A became the government is

1:04:29

using science to kill us makes us it's it's

1:04:31

different. It's a point of view things it's not

1:04:33

really that much of a strawman. yeah well I

1:04:35

you know it's I like to get money out

1:04:37

because the dead the guys with the the Kobe

1:04:39

thing I can go okay well that was it.

1:04:42

That was A we I think we can all

1:04:44

agree no one handle that great no known handles

1:04:46

any have a great I was it was a

1:04:48

very tough task but it's the idea of again

1:04:50

com a doubling down on that because it one

1:04:52

in the last on the upset them so thought

1:04:54

oh no we're a day upset the execs is

1:04:56

would not one but this when you engage somebody

1:04:58

and there was a logic to it that they

1:05:00

can't deny that gets all they could say is

1:05:02

like what these actions are different in they're doing

1:05:04

this other thing. Yeah, but it's it's. It's again

1:05:06

it goes back to gratitude. It goes much kind

1:05:08

of going. Oh you know these big pharmaceutical companies

1:05:10

are up to get us. And you go.

1:05:13

Super. As opposed to walk wherever

1:05:15

I like for stream of athletes. is

1:05:17

Smith a Spanish Flu via How's How's

1:05:19

About Business Wasn't Yes we didn't have

1:05:21

any vaccine so that sank got house

1:05:24

everybody's I it's it's like no one

1:05:26

celebrating that. Facts know it's only a

1:05:28

young men as a dying in in

1:05:30

Costa Rica school. Spanish lose was because

1:05:32

it was a war on the have

1:05:34

visited. There's a belief system at get

1:05:37

hand now that that's is your kind

1:05:39

of support and driven and spite driven

1:05:41

and. False. Information driven where people just

1:05:43

think that's are you I do is man up.

1:05:46

Yeah. It's it's the yes have walk it

1:05:48

off sniff war he'd asked i'm it is that

1:05:50

we think is more Would you go? It's people

1:05:53

that don't want institutions. They don't want that, sort

1:05:55

of. It's an ordinary. Know what you need is

1:05:57

better institutions. Let's recall, not system. they've just got

1:05:59

to be. Let me ask you about the

1:06:01

situation. Know you know because you know you're a

1:06:03

person that has been. Taken

1:06:07

to task publicly over jokes, rights

1:06:09

and him in Britain and they

1:06:11

were specific jokes about damn on,

1:06:13

if I'm not even sure what

1:06:16

what did, we could do a

1:06:18

list as loves right by, but

1:06:20

there was not. Were

1:06:23

at the time when some of it happened.

1:06:25

There was no cancel culture per se. there

1:06:27

was just push back right? What has this

1:06:29

huge difference between council culture and criticism? Threat

1:06:31

and criticisms? Absolutely said. Game on there for

1:06:33

everyone. When I say in a special jokes

1:06:36

like magnets they are fact some people and

1:06:38

they repel some people and that's kind of

1:06:40

okay. some people don't like and that rights

1:06:42

the cancellation thing when you know if someone

1:06:44

goes What? Not only did I not like

1:06:46

out any good you should be allowed to

1:06:48

say that but the grass roots he kind

1:06:51

of a mob mentality as of of. Social

1:06:53

media platforms to to. Deny

1:06:55

people worked to get people. Pushed

1:06:57

out of the gift? Yeah, that will. That's

1:07:00

it. Strikes me as we're in quite an

1:07:02

interesting position now in terms of podcasting and

1:07:04

stand up comedy. Where you go A we

1:07:06

the only ones that a council proof because

1:07:08

there's no shareholders. There's no, that's right, there's

1:07:10

no one to try. Oh right or what

1:07:12

You know you can't say that there a

1:07:14

now people can build their own show business

1:07:16

to not beholden to a corporate show business

1:07:18

entity idea and like question you have to

1:07:20

ask yourself yeah when you get canceled his

1:07:22

who are you right in can an immunity

1:07:24

to say that Did you It didn't I

1:07:26

did you speak That's. Like if you if you're

1:07:29

gonna say something can you bear the weight that

1:07:31

you have? This article is worth it. There's no

1:07:33

freedom of consequence and is it worth? I think

1:07:35

nothing of is it worth as their importance while

1:07:37

but this whole big a laugh something gets does

1:07:40

matter Sometimes you bought something vibrate, really edgy jokes

1:07:42

and it kind of gets a says his attacks

1:07:44

and worth it. Rak this does. You've gone too

1:07:46

far there as the on our Cetera discovered that

1:07:48

entails notes. this really has to be worth it

1:07:50

because this is this is sensitive topic. I want

1:07:53

to talk about it on air it on It

1:07:55

doesn't people to talk about take the air out

1:07:57

of. Just met the but it but

1:07:59

it gonna be funny enough. It's

1:08:01

gonna be so funny if it's gonna be

1:08:03

that.i. thought that thing you said about you

1:08:06

know a lot of people have stayed. The

1:08:08

thing of the. The

1:08:10

big issue is S E O This cancer cultures

1:08:12

done wonders for people's career. Who who's movie stand

1:08:14

up against these? Whether it's real or it's not,

1:08:17

the idea that there's a bunch of comics or

1:08:19

item and I woke what is that even means

1:08:21

you know, if that's your whole angle, it's sort

1:08:23

of a new hook. But if you step back

1:08:25

as you go, okay, let's look at the let's

1:08:27

look at the numbers. So let's look at the

1:08:30

metrics here. Who. Selling tickets smart only

1:08:32

wise I always been cancelled that no one. it's

1:08:34

like for hundred would glad thinking about but but

1:08:36

people like to say it because it's It's actually

1:08:38

a good brand for certain people for a certain

1:08:41

audience and ethics. a very good brand. Thirty days

1:08:43

that thing of like going. it's not. It's

1:08:45

not for your and a being cancelled is kind of a. It's.

1:08:48

A good experience Met it's it's good to. Also it's

1:08:50

good filter. Yeah. It's good filter on

1:08:52

how so what's good Filter on Friends

1:08:54

via August Three Friends. Who

1:08:57

serves actually a big lethal that this has

1:08:59

happened to you? Who's who's throwing you under

1:09:01

the bus strike and comment about you? who's tweeting

1:09:03

something Man Whose? aka about your joke about

1:09:05

the jokes. Yeah so with that thing if

1:09:07

you go. I'm you have the right size as

1:09:09

well. When it happens when you aca you have to say look

1:09:11

I told a joke in some people didn't like. That

1:09:14

that's what's happened with your jokes in the

1:09:16

specialist is really very concise and very funny.

1:09:20

The one about us are, you know what

1:09:22

are the odds you phrase it when you

1:09:24

guys ear where the. Can be

1:09:26

the subject matter. what's the it's about? it's about

1:09:29

being cancelled he says oh so you admit that

1:09:31

you know they always I got a as yeah

1:09:33

have so seats it's at the next time I

1:09:35

get canceled my plants that are yeah I were

1:09:37

to be directly after this and it will be

1:09:40

So there's some I get cancelled I'm in a

1:09:42

say ah I'm sorry. On the people

1:09:44

that I've upset was a you don't really mean

1:09:46

apology and I'll say so you're saying I could

1:09:48

say something and not mean it. Now you again

1:09:51

and. Eight

1:09:53

seats as there's get it, but it is, I think

1:09:55

we've got to go, yet I mean, isn't a joke

1:09:57

these are all just I mean the idea in. Special.

1:10:01

I'd be a eunuch is anti tax. people to get upset with

1:10:03

mean you go what you think I told. Seventy.

1:10:05

Five jokes. Took. A break

1:10:07

to make a series point about vaccines and

1:10:09

then told which everyone laughed at weirdly and

1:10:12

until seventy five motives. And. Seems like

1:10:14

an odd. Way. To get up

1:10:16

whenever there is. There was also the

1:10:18

other point we say that the seventies people

1:10:20

don't understand jokes. minutes on both sides

1:10:22

what it's about. I think sometimes it's

1:10:24

the it's the idea that the journalists do

1:10:26

kind of a bad sites article about.

1:10:28

He made the statement rise up no no

1:10:31

and to make a statement made a

1:10:33

joke. This a very different thing yeah but

1:10:35

I mean but you are sensitive to

1:10:37

certain things like language changes and even

1:10:39

the way you handle pronouns. It's is. there

1:10:41

was s and empathy to it. You're

1:10:43

not, You're not. Just eat. There are people

1:10:46

that earlier like fuck dat. Sandy.

1:10:48

And years your bed. yet even being a

1:10:50

and edgy comic was a bit about tolerance.

1:10:52

yes yes and business. And I think I

1:10:55

think that thing about the idea of it

1:10:57

being a sacred cow the you can talk

1:10:59

about strikes me as ridiculous. but also like

1:11:01

be as human beings are nice. It's just

1:11:03

it, it's a joke, is a piece of

1:11:05

work place and. Everyone can laugh

1:11:07

together without that unifies as we're all in

1:11:10

this together. Yeah, so I think as long

1:11:12

as it's not mean spirited and and you're

1:11:14

holding some branch in his intention is is

1:11:16

very important. Of all of a pure making

1:11:18

a point about something I don't I sometimes

1:11:20

wonder what people are doing on stage when

1:11:22

they're making a very serious point about some

1:11:24

people. with this, this might be the wrong

1:11:26

medium with the world where the chuckle hot.

1:11:30

Yeah, near got a whole bit about. You know,

1:11:32

Why Are they coming to the clowns as immoral

1:11:34

arbiters of the as on a a a million

1:11:36

when he created. A good talking I know

1:11:38

I know you got other things nod and them

1:11:41

is to send some fantastic the I wanted a

1:11:43

yeah but I like to special and I thought

1:11:45

the it did seem like as the keys are

1:11:47

you out earlier that you are doing your longer

1:11:49

pieces about things you know and it's are trying

1:11:52

to get better I'm to I'm just try give

1:11:54

us I think that thing as well as you

1:11:56

go submit distill new after tonight is a bit

1:11:58

better is by he I. The Caterer you're

1:12:00

not giving yourself enough credits that he

1:12:02

had better is one thing by your

1:12:04

evolving a point of view is a

1:12:06

real thing. He has a just being

1:12:08

a guy. he tells a certain told

1:12:10

the joke the of that's that's of

1:12:13

performance right That's a character by but

1:12:15

to engage a point of view with

1:12:17

some consistency is a yeah that's that's

1:12:19

personal growth so you are getting better

1:12:21

as a person. Yeah wow I

1:12:23

have well the new armor in a

1:12:25

new will now as of this a

1:12:27

big chunk on on their mental health

1:12:29

which I think's quite interesting. What's see

1:12:31

I've watched Niels the other night and

1:12:33

yeah I'm doing a bit about personal

1:12:35

trauma that I think makes the same

1:12:37

point but I'll i I'm a guy

1:12:39

raz come from my experience or just

1:12:41

not can beat I don Knotts me

1:12:43

he of pontificating about anything but what's

1:12:45

your angle. My.

1:12:47

Angle is ah. My.

1:12:49

An addict. The bit is about so I

1:12:52

think. Men: Need therapy? Every man

1:12:54

in the room, how can she be seen

1:12:56

seen sharpest once a week? So women don't

1:12:58

need therapy. Women: To go Friends

1:13:00

to talk to Men have got friends, saw

1:13:02

we got friends, but not to talk to.

1:13:04

Members do pretty much anything to avoid talking

1:13:07

to their friends. Yeah, and that's the jumping

1:13:09

off points and then it gets into the

1:13:11

whole thing of like the and then I

1:13:13

I I get to kind of. I think

1:13:15

I'm. Funny enough, in that bit of

1:13:18

us working quite wealthy or that I think I have

1:13:20

permission. To. Make. A point.

1:13:22

Ah, about. Suicide. Via

1:13:24

which is your settings affected so

1:13:27

many people and is often seen

1:13:29

as a thing that stands alone.

1:13:31

Not symptom rounds a mental health

1:13:33

crisis and suits just that. simple

1:13:35

line. That it. The permanent solution

1:13:37

to temporal that I liked that idea because

1:13:39

the like Neil sort of poking fun at

1:13:41

the at at. The. The

1:13:44

sort of branding of trauma. Out

1:13:47

in the about World war Two is just

1:13:49

it's phenomenal that for to create so go

1:13:51

to I have that that's funny bites but

1:13:53

it it is. In

1:13:56

a comedic way, bit insensitive. You know it's

1:13:58

not like those guys came only didn't. Like

1:14:00

about it in a just one about their lives in a

1:14:02

healthy way. Half of them drank themselves

1:14:04

as as the on destroyed their families created

1:14:06

legacy is a fucking nightmare is for generations

1:14:08

of people just because they didn't talk about

1:14:10

it either. See know that documentary by Adam

1:14:12

Curtis the Mayfair set know I love him

1:14:14

of dino him or not give a man

1:14:17

bombings in apps the of holy say so

1:14:19

those documents were fucking genius So there's like

1:14:21

the makes us that's really what's what's nice

1:14:23

about these guys. Came back from Will Will

1:14:25

to. Totally traumatized they would

1:14:27

in the gambling dens of

1:14:30

myself and. They. Were hanging

1:14:32

out. And. They invented. Corporate.

1:14:35

Rating: So. The sitting around.

1:14:37

And. They invented side which is kind of

1:14:39

trying to come up with to stuff to

1:14:41

do to get keep him occupied race drinking

1:14:43

for a huge amounts gambling they have to

1:14:46

mount yes and the first ever corporate rate

1:14:48

was a it's an orchard in an influence

1:14:50

in orchard own boss timely some financial advisor

1:14:52

when oh east's sell this sell the says

1:14:54

on the stock market I'll make you if

1:14:56

you quit since the guys bowl fifty one

1:14:58

percent they didn't realize it could be taken

1:15:00

from them via and then they built houses

1:15:02

stopped of the trees down Bill Houses made

1:15:05

a fortune. And. Then just repeats and

1:15:07

repeats and repeats on. a modern finance was

1:15:09

built from these incredibly traumatize. Yeah, and and

1:15:11

not a great thing. New new, new new.

1:15:14

A Pretty bad. that's the legacy of trauma

1:15:16

that actress extravagant A Before we go that

1:15:18

that the I Don't Kneel has. I think

1:15:20

Neil's got the he's got a Trauma wings.

1:15:23

I think he's allowed to poke fun at

1:15:25

Roma. No, definitely Geigy. I guess he's a

1:15:27

guy spoken by other aggies. There is a

1:15:30

leading trauma. Yeah, he's like Trauma Personify Anonymous

1:15:32

for promoting some. Not a special, but crazy

1:15:34

good is crazy. Get it? Is I

1:15:36

guess I can talk to my i

1:15:38

think later this week by day about

1:15:40

suicide because I've made when he jokes

1:15:42

about suicide but I did. You know

1:15:44

that one of the arguments for gun

1:15:46

control is based on. The

1:15:49

British natural gas that there were

1:15:51

some. Ah the idea of a

1:15:53

i read an article that is There was a

1:15:55

period on of it was in the fifties or

1:15:57

was there was a time in Britain where that.

1:16:00

The gas it they were using it

1:16:02

as stoves in Britain was highly toxic

1:16:04

and if he turned to gas on

1:16:06

sucker had the have any be dead

1:16:08

in a couple minutes Just and then

1:16:10

Sylvia Plath map maybe it's by. But.

1:16:13

They changed the guess. And. It's

1:16:15

a did did. The one they changed it

1:16:17

to was a lot less toxic. so the

1:16:19

suicide rates went down dramatically. So if you

1:16:22

don't have the gun in the house. You'd

1:16:25

you're not going to decide to do that the

1:16:27

at certain moments. a summit. This you don't want

1:16:29

to feel that ceiling. someone to not feel anything

1:16:31

ever again. Yeah, it's the perspective thing. I like

1:16:33

it sometimes you gotta, you gotta your heads in

1:16:36

the oven is not happening quickly. Done at Magic

1:16:38

in a Coffin. We think I think Sylvia Plath

1:16:40

nearly killed a guy in the flat downstairs in

1:16:42

Primrose Hill. The house or with had wooden floor

1:16:44

both okay and the guy muslim in that that

1:16:47

are says that day. early bird houses for that.

1:16:49

had to put smell in. his mother had to

1:16:51

put the smell of gas in the gas because

1:16:53

it wasn't enough for a long time. Oh. Yeah,

1:16:56

why didn't I officials my just thought that was interesting

1:16:58

that if you have time to rethink it, you might

1:17:00

rethink it. Just. Got an idea

1:17:02

of the. A gun Control on

1:17:04

an idea for them either these a bit but

1:17:06

it's an idea. Yeah I think done clubs sir

1:17:09

at that She sobbed on clubs the album everyone's

1:17:11

Up from the Canal Paramilitary but none of everyone's

1:17:13

everyone wants a gun. That's fine. You have to

1:17:15

join up with a thousand other guy's ear and

1:17:17

you can be in it. And club yeah. And

1:17:19

then this collective responsibility of means was with. This

1:17:21

is a crime committed with your gun or something

1:17:23

bad happens with your guns than everyone in the

1:17:26

group gets fined and so you have to check

1:17:28

up on each other so you go states. It's

1:17:30

kind of what the original bit I think is

1:17:32

up. A few reboot the Thing. In the Constitution

1:17:34

strikes me that that's kind of in the spirit of

1:17:36

it clear. He i think that maybe

1:17:38

says hang out America with along you

1:17:40

think I'm I guess not know I'm

1:17:43

to saying a d Gun gloves A

1:17:45

they exist but they have an agenda

1:17:47

and it's not to monitor each other.

1:17:50

Yeah. But if there was asked if they brought

1:17:52

in in Australia right? I kind of thing that thing

1:17:54

of. The future is here, but

1:17:56

it's not evenly distributed Ms. Grey ideas around

1:17:58

the world. Yeah, I

1:18:01

don't in israel money to take it but as

1:18:03

they change their gun laws and they said what

1:18:05

if you're gone is involved in a in a

1:18:07

crime you don't get you know going to prison

1:18:09

for that crime fia but you get massive sign

1:18:11

center for your gun going mister to allow the

1:18:13

gun responsibility and and that collective responsibility of guts

1:18:15

and if people don't let my idea where they

1:18:18

gonna do band together a protest. Devote.

1:18:20

A former club the halfway this the I

1:18:22

don't have a i appreciate the same on

1:18:24

for help on trial bottom and he enmities

1:18:27

out. Maybe that will do it. Maybe this

1:18:29

will be the moment suffer from because acne

1:18:31

Jimmy a pleasure to get. Go.

1:18:39

Seven least we have thousand that

1:18:41

moved and thirty first clip. Or

1:18:45

Jimmy's Netflix special Jimmy Carr. Natural born

1:18:47

killers start screaming tomorrow. Hang out for

1:18:49

second, folks. Hey

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folks, this episode is brought to

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Look for former and listen. This

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know exactly how it happened. We.

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We had a day where we

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couldn't use that studio. Rag

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in there and that one day.

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Was. Better than any of the other

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days we had done because you're interacting

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knew it when the day was done

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were like that's the show right? That

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Z Z. Z Dynamic that went on in

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there today. that's the south so we went

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in pits that. We should

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do this in the break room and

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a change of young that we had

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marriage v Cedar now is called Break

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Room lives and Up but but he

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was actually probably easier as a technical

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is run some tables from next door

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to the break rooms though yet we've

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we've we picked up Impact Out every

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day. He. I thought it

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was like I thought it was a brilliant

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idea and in the funny thing is is

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that the show would be just par for

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