0:17

Hi This is Rachel Mcelroy Hi. This

0:19

is Griffin Mack. Then this is wonderful.

0:21

Rachel Matt Scott Bachelor like that is

0:23

going to be a that if not

0:25

the small wonder we never had like

0:27

an umbrella wonder that sort of. Casts.

0:31

A shade over the whole of an

0:33

episode before. Like a wonder for twenty

0:35

twenty four. Like an annual one day even

0:37

though it is just started. Yes, now it's

0:39

not going to get any better than that.

0:41

This is wonderful. Sure, whatever things that we

0:43

like that's good that we're into. And

0:45

Rachel Matt Scott bachelor And so did I. But.

0:48

Rachel's. Really wasn't about you, but it

0:50

was. It about immediately they started talking about

0:52

which St. Louis High schools they went to

0:55

and I was like i'm not take a

0:57

backseat this one. Yeah,

1:00

the we have friends that

1:02

knows people in New York.

1:05

It's. Joe Biden. they didn't didn't

1:07

it didn't know. It's let's is Lynn

1:09

in. It's. It's Lynn he made the of

1:11

the Broadway can. Is Guardian Angel Lin

1:13

Manuel Miranda. He notified us has got

1:15

bachelor was to be and a musical

1:18

ah and asked us if we would

1:20

like to attend said musical. this was

1:22

several months in advance. Yeah we without

1:24

any planning our coordination said yes. Which

1:26

are streak we continue to. How about

1:28

three days before we were supposed to

1:31

leave them? The show? Yeah, We knew

1:33

that it would have to be an overnight affair

1:35

and we hadn't really worked out the logistics on

1:37

that sorry one. But Rachel. Says an overnight a

1:39

fair use the limbs that the trip was

1:41

to be over nine. Thousand how?

1:43

there was no indecent proposal know? So

1:46

yeah. so it came together tricky. It

1:48

was basically like we got there

1:50

for Pm and then left at like

1:52

seven am the next day. Yes Ah

1:55

but we get see the show.

1:57

The show was. shown me that he

1:59

had nectar a run I believe March 4th,

2:01

if you live in New York, get there.

2:03

It kicks ass. It's so good. It's got music

2:05

from the writer of the last five years and

2:11

parade is fucking great. It's about

2:13

journalistic ethics at an

2:15

independent magazine in like the late 1990s.

2:18

Yeah. Extremely my shit and

2:20

I have songs stuck in my head from

2:22

it that I can't do

2:24

anything about because it's new and there's no

2:26

cast recording out there yet. So

2:29

after the show, we got to hang around. I

2:32

was told Scott Bakula would be

2:34

arriving imminently. And

2:36

so I met a lot of fans of the show.

2:38

Yeah, no kidding. Which was very, very cool. What

2:41

a big time moment for Griffin to be

2:43

talking to these like world renowned actors and

2:45

performers and to have individuals keep coming up

2:47

to him mid conversation and be like, hey,

2:50

by the way, Griffin McElroy, I'm a huge

2:52

fan. So a big power play.

2:55

Uh-huh. Yeah, and then

2:57

Scott Bakula came out, walked directly over to

2:59

us. I provided

3:02

some lubricant to the conversation

3:04

right away by

3:06

saying that I was from St. Louis and that

3:08

I in fact grew up five

3:10

minutes from where he did. And

3:12

then we had a lot to talk about. And

3:15

then we got to meet his wife, which is incredible. They

3:17

had four children. So we got to talk a lot about

3:19

that. I

3:21

think he spent maybe 10 or 15 minutes with

3:23

us. Very generous. Just so friendly.

3:27

Exactly what you want a Midwestern celebrity to

3:29

be. Nobody made any like quantum

3:31

leap references or jokes. I did not reference

3:33

quantum leap at all. Which was a huge

3:36

victory, I think, for both of us.

3:39

I approach interactions with famous people

3:41

as an opportunity to not talk

3:43

about the thing that probably everybody

3:46

talks about. Yes, that's great.

3:48

So I didn't reference a piece of work that he

3:50

had done. I'm more focused on the fact that we

3:52

were from the same place and it was exciting to

3:54

me to see somebody from my

3:56

relatively small Midwestern location.

4:00

make it big in the big world. You

4:02

also weren't overly familiar, which I think is the

4:04

risk you run when you're like, I'm not gonna

4:06

talk to Scott Vacula about a lot of meat.

4:08

I did make it clear I knew exactly

4:10

where he was from, which suggests- Not as

4:12

a dress. You

4:14

didn't talk to Scott Vacula. But

4:17

it does suggest a certain amount of research. I

4:20

mean, if you're from where you're from and someone

4:22

like Scott Vacula is where you're from, it's like

4:25

me not knowing that Billy Crystal did like one

4:27

semester at Marshall University. Which

4:30

by the way, he attended the show the next night. We

4:33

missed a real opportunity, I guess. The

4:35

stars really could have aligned on that. Boy, howdy

4:37

so much I would have to talk to Billy

4:39

Crystal about like that one semester he spent, I

4:41

believe, at Marshall University. And he would probably feel really

4:43

uncomfortable because I don't know that he has a lot of

4:45

recall from that time in his life, most likely. That's entirely

4:48

possible. Yeah, a long time ago. But

4:50

yeah. Big pothead, Bill Crystal. William,

4:55

William Crystal. William Crystal. But

4:58

yeah, it was, I mean, it was everything. I

5:00

could have ever wanted it to be. I

5:03

was in complete shock. Vibrating.

5:06

Yeah, really? Starting with

5:08

excitement. Really, really amazed. Just one of those

5:10

things that you don't think about happening

5:14

ever. Yeah. And then there he was.

5:16

Yep. And I'll say Dot's

5:18

home style pretzels. We

5:22

met Dot. Yep. And

5:25

all of her incredible, no, I

5:27

mean, just good. Incredibly outrageously zesty

5:29

little pretzel rods. I had some of them

5:32

for lunch and I left the bag out. Did you

5:34

see the bag? For your boy. I

5:36

got in there and I had some. Happy Valentine's Day.

5:38

Happy Valentine's Day. Both of our breath is probably unfathomably

5:42

foul right now because they are zesty

5:44

in a- A lot of seasoning. A

5:47

lot of seasoning. An Edo's

5:49

level of seasoning. We just had

5:51

the original. I haven't tried all the varieties

5:53

yet. Although cinnamon sugar is very good.

5:55

Cinnamon sugar is so good. Get those

5:58

away from me. Can

6:02

I tell you about my big wonder? Yes. It

6:04

is a show we're watching right now and we've briefly

6:06

discussed it. I believe in the small wonder segment of

6:09

this show and I believe I also talked about it

6:11

a bit on the besties. But it's time for us

6:13

to dive in because I think we spent enough time

6:15

with The Devil's Plan. We haven't

6:17

finished yet though. We have not finished it

6:19

and I will say it was treacherous researching

6:21

this show without boiling this season. Yeah, you didn't

6:23

think about saving it? Because from what I can

6:25

tell we haven't even gotten to like the biggest

6:27

thing yet. It's entirely possible. We've got

6:30

about seven episodes in and it's already, I

6:32

mean, something I can't stop thinking

6:34

about. The Devil's Plan, if you haven't heard

6:36

us talk about it on the show before, another

6:39

fucking slam dunk reality competition

6:41

show from Korea. Just

6:44

amazing. Last year it was all

6:46

physical 100 and sirens survived the

6:49

island and New World. This

6:52

year's Treating Us. Actually, I think Devil's Plan actually came out last year

6:54

too and we're late to it but it's

6:56

Treating Us. So so right. So

6:59

The Devil's Plan, Korean reality competition show

7:01

in which 12 contestants live together

7:04

in a open

7:07

air hotel slash

7:10

like incredibly well furnished sort of

7:12

prison sort of situation. Yeah. There

7:15

is a prison in the show that is not the

7:17

main living area. It's like a pretty decent like... There's

7:19

a lot of almost like office style

7:22

cubicles that have beds in them. Yes.

7:25

And then like a main area where they can all

7:27

eat their meals and relax and then they enter this

7:29

big auditorium where they do their puzzles. They do their

7:31

games and their puzzles and their machinations. Every

7:34

sort of... So these 12 contestants live together. They

7:36

have to do all these challenges in

7:39

order to add money to

7:41

sort of the prize pot which the winner

7:43

of the show will collect and also avoid

7:45

getting eliminated. In each

7:48

day of the game there is a

7:50

main match which are usually incredibly

7:52

complicated competitive tasks in which

7:55

players can earn or lose

7:58

pieces which is the main currency of the game. of

8:00

the show. Throughout the different

8:02

challenges, sometimes you'll have an opportunity to

8:04

spend those pieces to earn an advantage

8:07

in whatever challenge that you are doing. And also,

8:09

if you ever run out of

8:11

pieces, you are kicked out of

8:13

the game immediately. You are immediately eliminated. So

8:15

doing these main matches, you can either win

8:17

pieces if you do a very good job

8:19

or you can lose pieces leading to your

8:21

elimination if you do a very bad job.

8:24

And we should say all the contestants are

8:26

kind of known for being gamers, right? Or

8:28

at least have some celebrity status. There's some

8:30

level of celebrity, there's some actors in

8:32

there. There's a guy

8:34

named Orbit who, as far as I can tell, is

8:37

a science YouTuber who is, I

8:39

guess, fairly well known if he was on this show. But yes, it

8:41

is. There's like an idol performer.

8:44

Yes, there's an idol performer. The

8:46

cast is fantastic. I

8:49

struggled at first to, I mean, this is true

8:51

of every reality show, to like remember who everybody

8:53

was. But I feel like by like the second

8:55

task, especially once they start to sort of team

8:57

up and form these factions, it gets a lot

8:59

easier to sort of follow them and

9:01

genuinely become quite invested in their plight as they

9:04

try to survive this game. So you have the

9:06

main match where you try to get pieces and

9:08

try not to get eliminated. After the main match,

9:10

the player with the lowest number of pieces and

9:13

also a second player chosen by the player with

9:15

the highest number of pieces go to prison. And

9:17

this is like a little room that you know,

9:19

prison, just like a little room they live in

9:21

for the next 18 hours. It's

9:25

fairly Spartan. But also sometimes there's a little puzzle in

9:27

there that if you solve it, you get a piece.

9:30

Yeah, they get their meals on

9:32

trays. There's like no like

9:34

natural light or like proper

9:36

sink. Yeah. So but because two

9:38

players get sent there at the same time, usually

9:40

some pretty decently tight bonds

9:42

end up getting forward. Yeah, spend 18

9:45

hours in the same room as somebody.

9:48

And then at the end of that, there

9:50

is the prize match, which is usually cooperative.

9:53

And in the prize match, players work

9:55

together to complete these really

9:57

difficult cerebral challenges to add to the prize match.

10:00

money to the pot that the final winner

10:02

of the show will will ultimately take home.

10:05

Those challenges are pass-fail. You

10:08

either succeed at the task altogether or

10:10

no money gets added to the pot

10:12

whatsoever. Complicating those games

10:14

is the fact that sometimes you can also

10:17

earn a piece or two doing those

10:19

challenges usually working against the

10:22

sort of benefit of the group. So there

10:24

is an element of like you

10:26

know teamwork teamwork teamwork but also like

10:28

I'm down to one piece and so I am

10:30

going to like kind of screw everybody over here

10:33

a little bit. So there's some

10:35

politics involved in in that side of the

10:37

show as well. That's that's

10:39

sort of it for the main structure

10:41

of the show. What sets the Devil's

10:43

plan apart from I think any other

10:45

show I've ever really seen before is

10:48

just the bonkers game design

10:50

element of it which permeates

10:52

just every single strata of

10:54

of the show. And I will

10:56

say this was a little bit of a turnoff

10:58

for me because usually

11:01

when they introduce a game they will

11:04

start to tell you the rules and

11:06

and you're like okay okay okay and

11:08

then this each game takes

11:10

about five to seven minutes

11:13

to reveal the full amount of rules.

11:15

Yeah. And I have a very difficult

11:17

time keeping up but once

11:19

they actually start playing the game it's like

11:21

you can kind of figure out from the

11:23

interactions like what what is

11:25

trying to happen. Yeah. So even if you

11:27

are like me and not somebody who can

11:29

follow like 17 rules and

11:31

any interaction like it's still very entertaining

11:33

because you watch the people kind of

11:36

figure it out. Yeah real time. Once

11:38

the games get going they are

11:40

usually pretty easy to to kind of follow. Between

11:43

that the the rules explanation and the game

11:45

happening though there's also almost always like an

11:48

hour of prep time and

11:50

that hour of prep time is interesting because

11:52

that's where they they figure

11:55

out like the game. So to

11:57

sort of set and set up what I mean

11:59

I'm gonna explain maybe the easiest to understand of the

12:01

main tasks that we've seen in the episodes we've watched

12:03

so far. The challenges, like I

12:05

said earlier, are so complicated and they

12:07

challenge, what I really like, they challenge different

12:10

parts of like mental

12:12

ability. So

12:14

there's like a memory challenge where they all have to just

12:16

look at this huge picture with a bunch of stuff on

12:18

it and then remember like what they saw in the picture.

12:21

There's a lot of sort of deduction,

12:23

there's like social engineering elements of it.

12:27

So the easiest one that I can explain that

12:29

we've seen so far is a game where players

12:31

receive a number between one and 100. They

12:35

keep it hidden from everybody else. They also,

12:37

it is hidden from them. Nobody knows what

12:39

their number is or what anybody else's numbers

12:41

are. In order to deduce that, two players

12:43

can team up to go into a

12:45

booth and exchange a math ticket basically

12:48

to find out the sort of like the

12:51

sum of what their

12:53

two numbers are if they use an addition ticket.

12:55

Or if you use a multiplication ticket, it shows

12:57

you what the last digit of the number is

12:59

when you multiply them together. And then there's like

13:02

a division ticket and there's another ticket. So

13:04

the game is using these tickets with other

13:07

players and working sort of backwards from

13:09

these different mathematical equations to figure out what your number

13:11

is. If you figure out what your number is, you

13:13

get a bunch of points. You also

13:15

can get a point if you figure out another

13:17

player's number and if that happens, they lose a

13:20

point. So now all of a sudden it is a

13:22

game about like working your way through all these like crazy

13:25

mathematical possibilities,

13:27

working with people that you trust and also trying

13:30

to figure out a way to work with someone

13:32

you don't exactly trust so that you could maybe

13:34

screw them over and get a point and

13:37

win a bunch of pieces. Here's

13:39

what rules, right? That sounded very complicated, I understand that.

13:41

There's a ton of time that they spend making sure

13:43

that you understand like what the rules of the game

13:45

are. And then in that intervening

13:47

period where everybody kind of like figures the

13:50

game out, the beauty of the show kind

13:52

of comes together which is that this is

13:54

not a game people have played before. This

13:57

is not a game where they're going over their

13:59

strategies like. Here's the

14:01

list of strategies. Let's pick the one that's going

14:03

to work for us. It is

14:05

them reverse

14:08

engineering the game. It is them solving

14:10

a game that

14:12

has never been played before. And

14:14

so it rewards a level of just kind

14:16

of like common gamesmanship

14:19

that I never really seen tested on a

14:21

reality show before. And then the ability to

14:23

pivot too. Because the games are so complicated, you

14:26

have to make certain assumptions. And a lot of

14:28

times what will trip players up is they'll think

14:30

they've figured out a piece of it and they'll

14:32

cling to that. And then at

14:34

the last minute they could find out that was

14:36

not an appropriate thing to cling to. And

14:39

can they still move to make a change

14:41

or is it just too late? So

14:43

there have been some agonizing moments

14:45

on the show where people are like, got it, figured

14:47

it out. And then they'll get halfway through a challenge

14:49

and be like, I'm fucked. I did not do this.

14:51

I didn't do it right. Now I

14:54

know what I should have done. But that's the beauty of the

14:56

fact that these are games that nobody's ever played before. And

14:58

so you don't know what's going to

15:00

work. You don't know what's going to

15:02

be good. It's not just the usual

15:05

stuff that games test of figuring out

15:07

your opponent and getting lucky with a

15:09

dice roll. It is like looking

15:11

at the list of rules, which are

15:14

always long, and trying to find the

15:16

hidden pathway through

15:18

them that is going to lead you to victory. And

15:21

that is, for me

15:23

personally, incredibly satisfying to watch. I

15:26

love watching people figure out games,

15:28

right? Like I feel this way about video

15:30

games sometimes. Like I love when I figure

15:33

a video game out when it's like a

15:35

new thing that I've never really tried anything

15:37

like that before. And that happens every single

15:39

episode of that show. And that rules. And

15:41

getting to see people trot out these different

15:43

things that they figure

15:45

out that they underestimated

15:47

themselves in what they thought they

15:49

were capable of is also hugely

15:51

rewarding. There have been a couple

15:54

of genuinely triumphant hero moments of

15:56

somebody realizing like, oh shit, actually,

15:58

I'm really smart. this one thing

16:00

and I had no idea. There's

16:03

also like a layer of mystery to the

16:05

whole show too that I really appreciate like

16:08

when you first when the game starts everybody

16:10

gets one of these golden pieces but they're

16:12

not told what they're for or what they do.

16:14

They know they have to have pieces to stay in

16:16

the game but they don't know ultimately what the point

16:19

will be of like the pieces themselves. So the first

16:21

couple games like everybody's guessing

16:23

like well maybe we should make sure that one

16:25

person gets a lot of pieces and then they can

16:27

spread it out and then maybe you spend

16:29

that money to get people out of jail and it's like

16:31

none of that is how it works. And

16:34

they're like giving pieces to other people is like a

16:36

little thank you like they don't know they don't

16:38

know what the fuck they're doing right. The pieces

16:40

also somebody realizes that the pieces have different sort

16:42

of slots on them which like sets them off

16:45

on this spree of like what are the slots

16:47

what does it mean don't tell anyone else about

16:49

the slot. But watching that

16:51

kind of start to come together which is

16:53

about where we are in the show is

16:55

also very very fucking cool. There's also like

16:57

board games scattered all around the common area

16:59

and people keep playing the board games like

17:01

this is going to be relevant. One

17:04

of these days we're gonna have to play nine men's

17:06

morals for something. Yeah. We have

17:08

not seen whether or not that pays off

17:10

but it is hysterical watching people go like okay

17:12

man we're gonna play connect four

17:14

all night long so that when we inevitably have

17:17

to play connect four I guess but they also

17:19

just couldn't. It's

17:22

a game about games that

17:24

rewards sort of like

17:27

game flexibility and it's

17:29

just really really. And

17:31

it also has like a lot

17:33

of those like basic reality show tropes

17:35

of like oh this person's a threat

17:38

we should probably get them out. Yeah. And this

17:40

person we don't have to worry about so let's

17:42

keep them around they're like not gonna challenge us

17:44

in any way. There's one player who sort of champions

17:47

himself as like the guardian of the

17:49

weak player who have like a

17:52

few pieces and so like he arranges them all into

17:54

like a pretty big like he

17:56

forms this big alliance and that

17:58

is like I'm protecting all the weak players. players, let's pick

18:00

off everyone else. And it's like, well, hold

18:02

on, you have formed a very big alliance

18:04

here. But he's like, we'll share all of

18:06

our pieces. And we'll have this, this beautiful,

18:09

this beautiful dream of equality. And I love

18:11

he gets called out on that at some

18:14

point, because the person that calls him out

18:16

is like, so you're just getting rid

18:18

of the strong players. Like protecting

18:20

the weak is another way of saying getting

18:22

rid of the strong player. Yeah. But yeah,

18:24

and his his motivations are not like,

18:26

well hidden at all. Like it is

18:28

very clearly like what this dude is doing.

18:31

The casting is like great, like there's a

18:34

lot of genuinely funny moments on on the

18:36

show, because I imagine living with all of

18:38

these people for a week and going through

18:40

all these challenges genuinely does bring you fairly

18:42

well, like close together. It is the type

18:44

of the show that I wish I could

18:46

like be a part of just making, even

18:49

if it is just, I

18:51

guess I just want to be on the show because it

18:53

is thrilling to like, figure something out at

18:55

home that you then like later see

18:57

the contestants figure out. Like, I feel

18:59

like that moment can happen a lot

19:01

while you're watching. The show is directed

19:03

and produced by Jung Jong Jung, who

19:05

has had a few reality show hits,

19:07

a couple of which have

19:10

been mentioned to us as we went down our

19:12

sort of spree last year, one is called The

19:14

Great Escape and one is called The Genius. Both

19:17

of which sounds sort of actually similar in structure

19:19

to The Devil's Plan, which makes me want to

19:21

check those out. But yeah,

19:23

that's The Devil's Plan. Thank you to everybody who kept

19:26

recommending that to us. I feel like we tried it

19:28

and then bounced off the first episode, but I'm glad

19:30

we gave it another shot because it is

19:34

demanding television. Yeah. You really

19:36

have to give it your

19:38

undivided attention while you're watching

19:40

it, but there

19:42

is something about that that is that

19:45

is really rewarding when it kind of pays

19:47

off. So that's The Devil's Plan. I

19:49

really, it is, it continues to be

19:52

amazing to me. The crop

19:55

of incredibly high

19:57

production value, production

19:59

quality. like incredibly

20:01

complicated reality competition shows that are coming

20:04

out of South Korea. It

20:06

is wild to me. There is no way

20:08

on earth this show would ever get made

20:10

here in the States. I

20:13

simply do not think that they

20:15

would spend as much money as this show demands, but I am

20:17

glad that – oh, it's on Netflix by the way. I'm

20:19

glad we're able to watch it. Can

20:22

I steal your way? Yes. Hey,

20:30

Griffin. Yeah. You know how like

20:32

sometimes you're reading something and then they put the

20:35

rest of it behind a paywall and they're like,

20:37

just do a subscription. It's free for 30 days

20:39

and then you can cancel it. Yeah. And

20:42

then you don't cancel it. Yeah. And then you

20:44

get a bill for like $150 and they're like,

20:46

hey, you got a full subscription now. The

20:49

Adventures magazine has tricked me like that so

20:51

many times. Highlights

20:54

for kids owns me.

20:59

But the mazes – The mazes are good. You can't get those anywhere

21:01

else. And who, if you and Galen are always up to their

21:03

old tricks. What

21:06

would help this is if you had

21:08

Rocket Money. All right. Rocket

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21:13

finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, monitors

21:15

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21:19

The example I gave earlier is a

21:21

very personal one for me also. Okay. But

21:24

it's more related to random newspapers in cities

21:26

I don't live in. Yeah. For me, it's kids

21:28

apps that make you subscribe to them for some

21:30

reason and then you forget to cancel. And

21:33

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21:56

you to think outside the box. But

21:58

sometimes that box – contains

22:00

a lot of incredibly powerful tools

22:03

that will help you build a

22:05

website that you want, that you

22:07

can visualize and dream about in your mind and

22:09

your heart. And, because square,

22:11

boxes are square. Yeah, in fact, it's

22:13

not a box at all, but a shape similar

22:15

to a box. Yeah, so what I'm getting at

22:18

here is that Squarespace is very good. It's

22:20

the all-in-one platform for building your brand and

22:22

growing your business online. You can

22:24

make really good-looking websites with this thing, that

22:27

when you click the stuff, it does the

22:29

stuff that you want it to do. Which

22:31

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22:33

websites in general, let alone ones that you

22:35

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22:37

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22:40

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22:55

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22:57

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free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use

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offer code WONDERFULPOD to save 10% off

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your first purchase of a website or domain. My

23:25

name's Doug Dugay, and I'm here to talk about my podcast in

23:27

the middle of the one you're listening to. It's called

23:30

Valley Heat, and it's about my neighborhood, the Burbank Rancho

23:32

Equestrian District, the center of

23:34

the world when it comes to foosball, frisbee golf,

23:36

and high-speed freeway roller skating. And

23:39

there's been a jaguar parked outside on my curb for

23:41

10 months. I have no idea who

23:43

owns it. I have a feeling it's related to the drug

23:45

drop that was happening in my garbage can a little over

23:47

a year ago. And if this has been a boring commercial,

23:49

imagine for sure, it's a big deal. And

23:51

if this has been a boring commercial, imagine 45 minutes

23:53

of it. OK, Valley Heat,

23:56

it's on every month on maximumfund.org

23:58

or wherever you get podcasts. Check it out,

24:01

but honestly skip it. These

24:03

are the protocols of the Rancho Cuisto District

24:05

Burbank, California. Visit the event space in my

24:07

house or around my room. Hello

24:14

sleepyheads. Sleeping with

24:16

Celebrities is your podcast pillow pal.

24:19

We talked remarkable people about

24:22

unremarkable topics, all to

24:24

help you slow down your brain and drift

24:26

off to sleep. For instance, we

24:28

have the remarkable Neil Gaiman. I'd

24:31

always had a vague

24:33

interest in life culture,

24:35

food preparation. Sleeping

24:38

with Celebrities, hosted by me,

24:40

John Moe, on maximumfun.org

24:42

or wherever you get

24:44

your podcasts. Night night.

24:51

What do you got? My

24:53

thing this week is street art. Street art.

24:55

Street art. Or like murals is basically what

24:57

I'm speaking of. Oh, okay. Yeah. There's a

25:00

lot of art on the street. Sometimes, you

25:02

know, people doodle stuff on chalk on

25:04

the ground. Yeah, I'm not really going

25:06

to be talking about like graffiti art

25:08

as much as I'm going to be

25:10

talking about like organized murals, like planned

25:12

and sponsored in some way. Yeah, that's

25:15

good to be specific because you could be talking about my street

25:17

art. The body motions.

25:20

What's your tag? No, it's not

25:22

like painting. It's like body stuff. Like

25:25

I do body art out there with my body. With

25:27

your body. Yeah, the way I move it and

25:29

I stand cool. You see those statues? Like the

25:32

people statues? Uh-huh. It's

25:34

like that, but I don't get all dressed up. Do you

25:36

have like an alter ego? Like is there a character

25:39

name for this guy? The still man. Oh,

25:43

so you're just standing somewhere? Very still, Lee. Yeah.

25:51

Yeah. I'm doing it right now. Can you tell? And

25:53

it looked familiar to me because I've seen lots

25:56

of videos. Still man. Have you? I

25:59

thought like, oh, that guy's a good guy. I was just standing there. I

26:01

didn't realize. No, no, it's art, body art.

26:03

Performance. Body street art from the still man.

26:08

The piece I wanted to talk about as

26:10

kind of my gateway is one that I

26:12

happened upon when I was in Paris. Sorry,

26:17

Rachel made her face when she said that.

26:20

That was very like pursed lips, like heard

26:23

of it. The

26:27

experience is kind of like what I'm speaking of. When

26:29

you're in a place that you don't know very well

26:31

and you haven't done a lot of research and then

26:33

you just happen upon this incredible. Giant anti-car work,

26:35

yeah, no, it's the best. Incredible mural. The

26:38

one that I am referencing.

26:42

Oh, wow. It's got kind of a Banksy

26:44

quality, right? Well, I don't know. I

26:47

don't know enough about Banksy to be able to

26:49

qualify that. This is a pretty huge photo realistic

26:51

human face. Yeah, I literally turned a

26:53

corner and I was like, oh. Such a

26:55

giant face there. Cool. So

26:58

this, the artist pseudonym

27:01

is Jeff Arasol, which I love.

27:03

Fucking great. I

27:05

mean, it's French, so it might be. Jeff

27:07

Arasol? Yeah, it might be pronounced

27:10

in a French way. Yeah, thank you for not. I

27:12

took a stab at it, but. And

27:15

it was actually, it was put up in 2011 and

27:19

it is called either

27:21

or chut. The French

27:23

way of saying hush or be quiet

27:25

is chut, which is what it's called.

27:28

Yeah. And

27:30

it is actually a self portrait of the

27:32

artist himself holding his finger to his lips.

27:34

But it's checking, how is that? What, like a three

27:36

story building? It's quite large. Yes,

27:39

so it is 22 meters high. I

27:42

have no idea what that means. Is

27:44

that 66 feet? I

27:48

mean, I could Google. No, it's not worth it.

27:51

22 meters, two feet is 72 feet. All

27:55

right, that was close. That's big, that's so much

27:58

bigger than I thought it was. Wowzers, boughs. It

28:02

is made in four strips. So that's

28:04

the stencil piece. It's

28:06

basically plastered up there, but also

28:08

involves 200 aerosol cans of paint. Damn, Jeff.

28:12

Yeah. I mean, there's a reason they call them Jeff aerosols.

28:15

Yeah. And so that's just kind

28:17

of an example of that experience I had, just kind

28:19

of being like, I don't know this place. I'm by

28:21

myself. Oh my God. What is that? It's

28:23

kind of what I love about murals. Yeah, it's amazing.

28:28

There, obviously, if you think about

28:30

like antiquity, people

28:32

have been painting on walls for a long time. I

28:35

think one of the traditional mediums for

28:37

painting in even the Korean part of

28:39

the world was walls, which makes

28:42

sense. But I wanted

28:44

to talk about kind of like a more modern

28:46

take of art as activism

28:48

in a way. So

28:51

a lot of where this

28:53

starts, at least in like North America, is after

28:55

the Mexican Revolution. And

28:57

it's like artists like Diego Rivera doing these

29:00

public pieces, kind of promoting

29:03

the country's indigenous roots and

29:05

political interests. And

29:08

then the U.S., out of

29:10

the Great Depression, the Works Progress

29:12

Administration was launched in 1935, and

29:15

artists were employed to paint public spaces and

29:17

civic centers around the country. Wow. Yeah. Chicago,

29:23

in 1967, there was a

29:26

group of African-American artists that

29:28

formed the Organization for Black American

29:30

Culture, which

29:33

did this big piece called The

29:35

Wall of Respect, 43rd and Langley

29:37

Avenue, which featured more

29:40

than 50 portraits of influential African-Americans, including

29:42

Malcolm X, Muhammad Ali, Aretha Franklin. It

29:46

was designed and painted in sections over the

29:48

20 by 60 foot wall. Jesus Christ. Yeah.

29:50

It's this right here. This

29:53

part of Chicago, I don't know that you'd ever

29:55

been to. I was trying to figure out... I

29:57

didn't see that before. Yeah. It's like south side

29:59

of Chicago. I was wondering, like, is

30:01

this, have I seen

30:03

this before? But,

30:07

yeah, it's like south side of

30:09

Chicago. And then in

30:11

Los Angeles, in the 60s, murals

30:13

became an important way for Chicano

30:15

artists and activists to communicate values

30:17

of from cultural identities. Artist

30:20

Judy Baca is the

30:22

artist that's often credited with igniting this

30:24

LA community and mural movement. In 1970,

30:26

she began working for the Los Angeles

30:28

Department of Recreation and Parks while teaching

30:30

art to at-risk youth in LA's predominantly

30:32

Mexican east side neighborhoods. I

30:35

have never heard recreation

30:38

and parks said in that order

30:40

before. Yeah, that's true. That

30:43

really tripped me up. I was like, oh, that's new.

30:45

Wait a minute. It tells you where the

30:47

emphasis is, you know? Sure, fun. Like parks,

30:49

sure, but recreation first. Hell yeah. I

30:52

mean, it's one and the same. If I'm at a park, I'm

30:54

having a good time. With

30:57

the city support, she launched LA's

30:59

first citywide mural program, which employed

31:01

young artists in her mural

31:03

crews. And they

31:05

painted more than 400 community murals. This

31:10

has also happened in San Francisco. There's

31:13

different areas throughout the country

31:16

that have done this kind of work

31:18

of like, let's mobilize these artists and

31:20

let's make our city interesting and also

31:22

dedicate energy towards the future. Energy towards,

31:25

you know, like the movement

31:27

and what's important to us. And

31:30

I just think that's really

31:32

exciting and something that hopefully

31:34

will continue. Did they take

31:37

down the mural wall in

31:39

Austin while we were still living?

31:41

I feel like I remember hearing about that. Austin

31:43

used to have this wall that was just like

31:47

people would just come and, you

31:49

know, make art on it. And it was real big. They

31:52

were going to relocate it. Castle

31:55

Hill? Is that what it was called? Maybe.

31:57

Yes. Yes. Graffiti Park, exactly. Castle

32:00

Hill. But a

32:03

different split hairs. I mean,

32:05

it's all it's all the same kind of

32:07

thing of like, this is a public

32:10

space. And we're letting artists come and

32:12

do their work here publicly. Yeah. But

32:14

yeah, that was dismantled. Yeah. As I

32:16

understand, it was relocated to another part

32:18

of the city. Beautiful

32:20

farm for mural walls. No,

32:25

I love I love me. I one of the

32:27

great sort of experiences

32:29

that I feel like I always have when

32:31

we go on tour, particularly in LA, I

32:34

remember going to LA for like, E3, and

32:36

whenever we would go around the city, just

32:38

being kind of like, amazed

32:40

at all of the just gigantic works

32:43

of art that were visible

32:45

from so many street

32:47

corners. I that is always

32:49

very, very exciting. So

32:52

I will just briefly I mentioned Banksy earlier,

32:54

I will just reference the kind of more

32:56

modern movement, which

32:58

includes like Keith Haring and

33:00

Banksy, Shepherd Ferry. I don't

33:04

know what that is.

33:06

Okay. But it's

33:09

more it's more stencil focused. It's,

33:13

it's more mysterious. It's

33:17

not like commissioned art, but it is very

33:19

recognizable. Shepherd

33:22

Ferry did the obey giant. Oh,

33:24

okay. Yeah. And obviously, like there,

33:26

there are, there are challenges

33:29

with this. I know that there are

33:31

artists that also decorate public spaces and

33:35

are not celebrated for that.

33:39

But I don't know, I

33:41

think that this is something that that has lasted for

33:44

a long time. And I think is super cool. I think

33:46

objectively, as a just sort of outside observer,

33:51

it's always, it's always cool

33:53

to like to see art on on the

33:55

street, right? Like I think that having

33:58

art be visible. in

34:00

common public places is like

34:03

a good thing pretty objectively

34:05

speaking. Exactly, there's a lot about kind of

34:07

like the modern urban landscape

34:09

that is, it's very easy

34:11

to just kind of go about your day

34:13

and not really pay attention to what you're

34:15

seeing. Right. It's just building upon building. Yeah.

34:18

And to have that experience is always really cool. Have a

34:20

giant fucking 70 foot tall face. Just

34:23

like, oh, there's art here. Yeah. I

34:25

don't know about scary street, I don't know about

34:27

jump scare street art like that 70 foot tall

34:29

face. I do not want to turn, if I'm

34:31

in Paris, I've never been. If I'm in Paris,

34:34

I'm lost probably. I don't want to turn

34:36

a corner, giant face

34:38

there waiting for me, but

34:40

all the other stuff can stay. It's just that

34:42

one. I'll send a letter to

34:44

my uncle in France. That's fair. To see

34:46

if he can get it taken down. We

34:49

have some submissions from our friends at home. Here's

34:51

one from Alex who says, my partner and I

34:53

have been very into a YouTube slash Nebula show

34:56

called Jetlag. It features a primary cast of three

34:58

with usually a guest and they turn travel into

35:00

a game show. Each season the game is a

35:02

little different, but they do a good job of

35:04

designing an interesting experience. They also do

35:06

the job of balancing production quality

35:08

without feeling scripted and being conscientious

35:10

travelers. We watched some of that. We did.

35:13

We watched an episode of Connect Four across

35:15

the United States where you had to go

35:18

to a state's capital and do a task

35:20

there to claim that state for your team.

35:22

And the first team to get

35:24

four states in a row wins. And

35:28

it was very, very entertaining. Our friend

35:30

and Bim Bam showrunner J.D. Amato

35:33

turned us onto that one. And

35:35

yeah, it seems great. That's one that we have

35:37

a subscription to that I

35:40

think we'll probably dig back into once time

35:42

permits. Here's one from

35:44

Allison who says, my small wonder is the

35:46

two dogs that hang out at my gym.

35:48

They're always on hand for belly rubs before

35:50

and after class and especially love giving kisses

35:52

when we're really sweaty. Perfect angels. No,

35:55

I love that. I've never heard of like gym dogs.

35:57

No, I've heard of gym rats. Yeah.

36:00

Sure, you gotta look out. The scourge. You gotta

36:02

look out for that. You gotta watch out. Sometimes

36:04

I'll get back from the gym and

36:06

I'll dig around in my bag and there's a little hole

36:08

in the bottom of it. One of

36:10

those stinking rats that's chewed right in there to get

36:12

at my dothsome

36:14

style pretzels. I always

36:17

think of like bookstore cats, you

36:19

know, and like bodega

36:21

cats. Hospital turtles. Sure.

36:25

Dr. Turtle, of course. No. No.

36:29

Restaurant fish. That one's real. That is

36:31

real. Although it's a dangerous thing

36:33

to commit to if you're a restaurant because you really

36:35

have to keep that tank up or else people are

36:37

going to walk in and they're going to be like. Oh,

36:40

it was when we went to Japan for a

36:42

honeymoon and our last night in town, we didn't

36:45

make a reservation and we were just wandering around

36:47

and went into this place that someone was like

36:49

on the street like, hey, come in here and

36:51

eat. Which is never

36:53

like a great, like an amazing sort of story. We

36:55

were like one of two tables that were

36:57

occupied. And it was in Kyoto. I

37:01

forget where we were, but there was

37:03

like a fish tank with just the

37:05

gnarliest fish.

37:08

Like just like they looked like they were a little

37:11

mangled. They looked like they were rescued.

37:14

Rescue fish. Rescue fish.

37:16

They were not necessarily, they were

37:19

not particularly appetizing. And

37:21

then we, and then we just sat there and then our

37:23

food was delivered and we were like, no,

37:25

not very good. Anyway, thank

37:28

you so much for listening. Thank you to Boann and

37:30

Augustus for these for our theme song, Money Won't Pay. You can

37:32

find a link to that in the episode description. We

37:35

have a bunch of merch

37:37

over at mcelroymerch.com. We've got

37:39

the Sometimes It Rains in

37:41

Trabnation t-shirt. I got

37:44

a fungalore poster for you up there. A

37:46

bunch of stuff. A bunch of stuff over

37:48

at mcelroymerch.com. You can find our other

37:51

shows at McElroy.family. Thanks to Maximum

37:53

Fun for having us on the network. Go

37:55

to maximumfun.org. Check out all the great programming

37:57

they got over there. I think that's it.

38:00

Happy Valentine's Day. Yeah, happy

38:02

Valentine's Day. We're recording this on

38:04

Valentine's Day. It may not be up on Valentine's Day. Just

38:07

pretend like we got it up on Valentine's Day. Just

38:10

pretend we got it up on

38:12

Valentine's Day. That's

38:14

the card that you can get now. Just pretend

38:16

we got it up on Valentine's Day. You

38:19

have a CVS right now. It's the most popular card.

38:21

Can you do me a favor and

38:24

just pretend like I got it. Bye.

38:27

Bye. Thank

38:58

you.