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0:54

I was in South Dakota teaching.

0:57

At that time, I was in a PE class. I

1:01

remember getting the call from my sister,

1:04

and she sends me a link. And

1:07

I think the headline said, gas leak. The

1:10

gas explosion goes off in Austin. And

1:14

so I'm trying to figure out what it

1:16

is my sister's doing, a lot of the

1:18

phone calling and messaging. Then

1:20

alerts start to pop up. My

1:23

sister sends me a link and she says, hey, it

1:26

might have been a bomb. There's

1:31

pictures of my aunt and my

1:33

grandma's house, the ambulance and

1:36

police officers. Another planet bomb

1:38

critically injured a 75 year

1:40

old woman, Esperanza Herrera. In

1:43

the city of Austin, we see

1:45

a large police presence and that

1:48

big white truck that you see, that would

1:50

be the bomb squad truck. It looks very

1:52

similar to the one that was out on

1:55

that other scene early this. I remember sitting

1:57

down in the front and I have a

1:59

picture. that the kids took of me. They

2:02

were kind of like messing with me because they took

2:04

the picture, they turned it black and white, and then

2:06

they played like a sad song. But

2:10

they didn't know what was going on. So they were

2:12

just like, oh, Coach is in his feelings, you

2:14

know, he's in his feelings, he's over there sad.

2:18

In that picture, you can see it in my

2:20

face. I have no idea what's

2:23

going on. So

2:26

I pack up, I jump in my car

2:28

and I start driving. I drove all

2:30

the way through, all the way down to...

2:39

From Sony Music Entertainment, campsite

2:41

media, and Pegalo Pictures, this

2:44

is Witnessed, 19 days. I'm

2:48

your host, Sean Flynn. Part

2:55

three, The Divide. Mike

3:00

Chex, one, two. Zeke

3:04

and the Rabbit Hole podcast, one. Zeke

3:09

Prado is the nephew of Esperanza Ho Pereira,

3:13

the 75-year-old woman critically injured by the third

3:15

package bomb. On March 12th, 2018, he

3:18

was a coach at a high school in

3:21

South Dakota. As soon as he heard the news, he got in his

3:23

car and drove more than 17 hours. He

3:26

was a coach at a high school in South Dakota. He

3:28

was in his car for more than 17 hours, straight

3:31

back to Austin. 11.30

3:35

this afternoon, my aunt, Hope,

3:38

Esperanza, Pereira, opened

3:43

up the door to pick

3:45

up a package. The package exploded,

3:48

which now put my aunt in the hospital

3:50

in critical condition. That

3:53

was the third package bomb. As

3:57

updates came in from both his family and the media.

4:00

He recorded this stream of consciousness voice memo

4:02

as he drove south through the night. The

4:06

police chief that had a press conference said

4:08

he'll leave no stone unturned. I'm going

4:10

to challenge him to that. I

4:12

need some answers. I'm nobody,

4:15

but this is my aunt. Whatever this is,

4:17

whatever you want to call it, don't

4:20

label it what the media has been labeling

4:22

it. Hate crime, terrorists,

4:24

no, this is just a

4:26

sick individual with mental

4:29

health issues, no matter what

4:31

his background is, if it's

4:33

a woman, then it is,

4:35

but whatever, you know, it's

4:37

a sick individual, it's a

4:39

person who would do that. I

4:42

don't know. The

4:46

recording offers a glimpse into Zeke's fragile state of

4:48

mind. A young man

4:50

searching for answers. My

4:53

aunt was supposed to, you know,

4:56

just live as long as

4:58

my grandmother. And in the absence

5:00

of those answers, reacting accordingly.

5:03

My grandmother's 92, she was also affected

5:05

by it. She had no major injuries,

5:07

but can you imagine her daughter or

5:11

seeing your

5:13

daughter? Fuck,

5:15

sick motherfucker.

5:21

Excuse me. I

5:23

don't know how to react to this.

5:25

I have a ton of anger built

5:28

up, anger, anger, anger

5:30

built up. And as a

5:32

believer, I'm supposed to do things like

5:34

turn the other cheek or

5:36

pray for that monster that

5:38

projected evil. What am

5:41

I supposed to say? I'm supposed to forgive him.

5:43

I'm supposed

5:45

to just sit here and say,

5:47

I'm praying for you, for your

5:50

mental well-being. Will

5:52

you try to take my aunt's life? You

5:56

did it earlier today to a young man and

5:59

woman? You did it 10

6:01

days ago to another family and

6:04

I was supposed to sit here and pray for you. And

6:07

I asked those questions, why? Why?

6:12

Her? This has

6:15

nothing to do with why does it happen

6:17

to good people. Just why? Her? Why? Now,

6:30

five years after the bombings, Ziek is one of

6:32

the only members of any of the victim's families

6:34

who will talk about what happened. Ziek

6:37

starts at the beginning when

6:39

he was just a kid. My

6:43

aunt, she has kids that grew up with my

6:45

older brother and sister. And then it was my

6:47

brother and I. So we

6:49

spent a lot of time being, taking care of

6:51

by my aunt's. My mom had

6:53

to go to work or something. We didn't live

6:55

near each other, but when we got together, it was,

6:57

you know, it was always good. My

7:00

aunt was always cooking, you know, like

7:03

a little bit of meat. They would always have tortillas

7:05

on the table, maybe tamales.

7:08

As soon as you were done eating breakfast, it's like, what's

7:10

for lunch? You know, and then,

7:12

yeah, you're done eating lunch. Like, what's for dinner?

7:15

And even until today, nothing compares

7:17

to Fran Hope's breakfast. Hope

7:21

Harara was the eldest sibling, and like her

7:24

mother, she helped look after the family. When

7:27

her mom, Ziek's grandmother, reached her

7:29

90s, Hope looked after her. She

7:32

was her daily caretaker. During

7:34

the day, she would always go to my grandma's

7:36

house and whatever she needed to help her run

7:39

s'marans. My grandma didn't drive, but one

7:41

time she did drive, she wrecked on

7:43

the very first time. So she

7:45

didn't drive. Everybody picked her up

7:47

and took her places. And

7:50

so my aunt Hope was that main person

7:52

that took care of just the family in

7:55

general. Make sure things were in

7:57

order. That was her role. On

8:08

the morning of March 13th, nearly 18

8:10

hours after he started driving, Zeke

8:13

was hurrying into the hospital where hope had been

8:15

taken after the bomb exploded in her arms. I

8:21

remember walking in and seeing the breathing

8:23

tube. So that was

8:25

probably the one thing that really humbles

8:29

you. My aunt was like

8:31

90 pounds, 95 pounds. She

8:33

was tiny. I want to say

8:35

she's probably under five foot for sure. I

8:38

was preparing for passing. And

8:42

I think a lot of people in that room were. I

8:44

think there was some thought of like, okay,

8:46

this could happen. My

8:48

cousins, obviously they were in the hospital

8:50

all the time. Like they never left.

8:53

We stayed there nights. We stayed on the floor. My

8:56

uncle Joe never left my aunt's side. We

8:59

had to force him just to go home and change

9:01

and shower and all that. We

9:04

weren't leaving until she was walking

9:06

out of there. Listen

9:16

now to the proof podcast season two, the

9:19

murder at the warehouse. How'd

9:21

you find out this thing had happened?

9:23

My mom called me and said, Lori,

9:25

please pound the body. And they're pretty

9:27

shirts, Renee. Right up right away.

9:29

You saw it in my head already. I thought

9:31

it was cheap. Season two

9:34

of proof is available now wherever you get

9:36

your podcast. I don't think that they

9:38

rushed the right people. Did

9:45

you kill Marlene Johnson? I

9:48

think you're one of the first people to have actually

9:50

asked from WBUR and ZSU.

9:52

And on SP media, this is Beyond

9:54

All Repair, a new podcast about an

9:57

unsolved murder that will leave you questioning

9:59

everything. Wow, it just

10:01

gets more interesting. Beyond

10:03

all repair. Listen and

10:05

follow on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or

10:08

wherever you get your podcasts. Zeke

10:25

stated his aunt's bedside all that day and

10:27

through the night. Then

10:29

he volunteered to go to his grandmother's house to pick up

10:31

some clothes for her. Her

10:34

house of course was at the moment an

10:36

act of crime scene. I

10:39

remember driving out there and pulling in and telling

10:41

them, hey I'm here to pick up some clothes that

10:43

detectives had told them I was coming out. I

10:46

remember you know walking up, nothing in

10:48

that neighborhood changed since I was a kid. It's

10:51

the same houses, the same fences, the same

10:53

dirt lots, same pecan tree and my grandma's

10:55

front lawn. I could see it. I

10:59

remember walking up and

11:01

they kind of came up and greeted me and

11:03

shook my hand. And they

11:05

had a makeshift table right by

11:07

the mailbox. And that table was

11:09

just plywood and on that table

11:11

had the bomb as much as

11:13

they could gather. They had

11:15

it kind of just in pieces. I

11:18

remember like the galvanized nails because they

11:20

look brand new. And I remember seeing

11:22

that and just I think, man these

11:24

galvanized nails blew up and my aunt

11:26

picked up the box. So

11:29

I remember just kind of walking to the front and

11:33

seeing the side of the house where

11:35

the window and then where my aunt

11:37

had got blown into the house. And

11:40

there was just marks from

11:42

the galvanized nails and holes

11:45

and there was glass all over the floor. It

11:49

just seemed real, real surreal.

11:52

Everything was enhanced and everything

11:54

was slowed down as

11:56

I'm kind of navigating to that house. Nobody's

12:00

just really paying any mind to me. While

12:04

he was there, it became clear to

12:06

Zeke that investigators didn't have much to

12:08

go on. But it was

12:10

the questions law enforcement raised with the

12:13

family that made it abundantly clear they

12:15

were grasping at straws. They

12:17

asked a question like they were like, All

12:20

right, is a 75-year-old woman or

12:22

93-year-old grandmother? If anybody had

12:25

a problem with him, we

12:27

thought, no, we've been here forever.

12:30

They had the same routine every day

12:32

for the last 30 years. They

12:35

would go to the same store, they would get the

12:37

same food, and

12:39

they even thought she got into an argument

12:41

with someone at the store over some vegetables.

12:44

That was their thought. Yeah, there was

12:46

an argument about some vegetables or something.

12:49

It's just like, oh my gosh. Despite

12:53

holding a bomb filled with galvanized nails

12:55

that, when it exploded, blew her backwards

12:57

into her mother's house, 75-year-old

13:01

Hope Harara survived the blast and then

13:03

all the subsequent medical treatment. She

13:06

had 22 surgeries. She had shrapnel,

13:09

man. Metal in her

13:11

legs. She had her kneecap reconstructed.

13:13

Her abdomen, she's got

13:15

a scar. She's got nicks

13:18

all over her body. She had

13:20

some infections during that process. There

13:23

was still shrapnel. They didn't get all of it. It's

13:26

just amazing that she survived that.

13:32

She's still dealing with it, but she's so strong-willed. Her

13:34

body will rest a little bit longer. She'll

13:37

sleep till 10 or 11 during the day,

13:40

get up and have some breakfast, coffee,

13:44

sit around, make some phone calls, talk to

13:46

my mom, and they'll just chat it out,

13:48

go about their business, it's all normal. The

13:51

thought process, like, hey, I'm moving on. I don't

13:53

know about you, but we're moving on. For

13:57

The families of the other victims, Anthony

13:59

Steffenhaus. The Trail and Masons. The two men killed

14:01

in the first to bomb is. Moving.

14:04

On was never really an option. Known

14:07

from houses family agree to talk on

14:10

the record to us about what happened

14:12

five years ago or even about house

14:14

softspoken husband father of an eight year

14:16

old daughter. Well. Respected X

14:18

athlete who was transitioning from project

14:20

management into real estate. According

14:23

to friends who was setting up a business

14:25

mentorship program to begin in the summer of

14:27

twenty eighteen for kids who didn't have a

14:29

father see in their lives. Seventeen.

14:32

Year Old Rail and Mason to step

14:34

between his mother and the second package

14:36

Bolland Safer Life. Was a musical

14:39

servants. Freebies

14:47

says prefer to hearing now.

14:53

Trailers. Future was brilliantly bright.

14:56

He played and you symphonies all over

14:58

the country from the inner Logan Base

15:01

Institute Michigan to the Sacramento Use Symphony

15:03

Chamber Music Workshop. And

15:05

he performed alongside members of the Los Angeles

15:07

Philharmonic one of the more the Steam Door

15:09

to Stress in the Warped. Trail.

15:12

In had incredible talent. And

15:14

he was also humble kind. People.

15:17

Who knew him and spoke to the media

15:19

after his death? Said trail and understood the

15:21

immense gift he had and that he needs

15:23

to sharon both through his music and to

15:25

Austin sound waves. A musical

15:27

education programs been a of. All

15:32

of authorities are by far

15:34

greater of their singers who

15:36

those songs crop a fair

15:39

for loving wife If you

15:41

read our full the education

15:43

through have nothing will are

15:45

the odds in our oh

15:48

so require creativity. Shortly.

15:52

After he was killed, the Mason family found

15:54

out the trail had been admitted with a

15:56

full scholarship to Oberlin College for Music. As

15:59

well as the. But the School of Music at the

16:01

University of Texas at Austin. Get.

16:04

Beyond their shared tragedy, Little.

16:06

Else connected the victims. Peers. Bomb

16:08

Squad Chief robbed and yes, From

16:11

what I know, a lot of the

16:13

focus was on trying to determine how

16:15

these three victims were related. And

16:17

then use that relation to find

16:19

out why that suspect is targeting

16:22

mystery people. There. Was a couple

16:24

people investigation that we're sure that none

16:26

of these victims were related. This was

16:28

completely random placement for these bombs, but

16:30

that little bit harder. except that even

16:33

though yeah this is random words, it's

16:35

okay, it's random, But why these three.

16:37

It doesn't give you anywhere to

16:40

go with that information. There.

16:43

Were a however to things to become

16:45

sad uncommon, both very apparent to anyone

16:47

who looked at the basic details. All

16:50

of them were from black and brown communities on

16:52

the East side of Austin. The

16:54

To understand the significance of that it

16:57

helps understand the history of Austin. Austin's

17:00

history has released to specifically Black

17:02

and Brown votes can be traced

17:04

back to Nineteen Twenty Eight. That's

17:07

Chairs More Co Executive Director of the

17:09

Austin Justice Coalition, a group of activists

17:12

and organizers founded in two thousand and

17:14

fifteen shortly after the death of Trees

17:16

On Martin. Awesome!

17:18

Believe in a lot! Was one of

17:21

the first cities in the country that

17:23

had Friedman communities. Communities. Were

17:25

free biking to set up shop be

17:28

allowed to movies. So. Before

17:30

me be gets the lights is awesome as

17:32

we know it. You had black

17:34

communities like societies with the last like

17:36

one sample as much as one of

17:39

the first really communities and country. Yeah,

17:42

Clarksville, our Tv reviews his.

17:44

Name. The versus Lords would

17:46

be the names of historically

17:49

black communities also six your

17:51

it was really on vital

17:53

place for black and brown

17:55

and even Jewish business. But

17:58

then something to happen around. 1928,

18:01

the powers that be had a

18:03

plan for the development of what

18:05

we now know as Central Austin,

18:07

Downtown Austin, and that meant that

18:09

they wanted to do a couple

18:12

things. They wanted to have

18:14

the West Side of Austin, which

18:17

means they had to get rid of all the black folks. And

18:19

long story short, the bill was, all

18:21

right, black people will give you the things you need, school,

18:24

infrastructure, but you can only get it if

18:26

you move to East Austin. So

18:29

these communities that were in Clarksville

18:31

and Queensville were pushed out

18:34

for us to the East Side and they did

18:36

things like they cut off their utilities, they

18:38

were making life really hard for them, and

18:41

that's how the East Side became the East Side.

18:45

In the early 60s, the dividing line between the

18:47

East Side of Austin and the rest of the

18:49

city became a physical barrier. A

18:51

new highway, Interstate 35, bisected the

18:54

city, running from north to south

18:56

just to the east of the Central Business District

18:58

and the state capital. So

19:01

East Austin had been literally separated from the

19:03

main hub of the city. So

19:06

now late 70s, 80s, early

19:08

90s, we started seeing like the

19:10

prequel to justification, which is beautification.

19:12

And anybody that's listening to this, if you

19:15

hear the word beautification around your neighborhood, that means

19:17

they're literally planning to get rid of you and

19:20

clean it up and make it look nice

19:22

and pretty to let some more affluent people

19:24

come into the neighborhood. So Austin

19:26

went from being 40% black

19:29

and then thanks to the beautification

19:31

and gentrification and just a blatant

19:33

disregard for the quality of life

19:35

of black people, we've

19:37

been doing down to 7%. By the 20

19:43

teens, Austin was one of the fastest growing

19:46

cities in America and

19:48

longtime residents on the East Side began to be

19:50

squeezed out of their own neighborhood. One

19:53

of the main reasons the divide continues

19:55

to grow is because historically black people,

19:57

other people of color were

19:59

not afforded the

20:01

seats at tables, they were not afforded the same resources

20:04

as everybody else. So as

20:06

the boom continues to grow, it's

20:09

more of like a gap that continues

20:11

just to grow, right? When the

20:13

developers and people come in and they want to buy your

20:15

house, even though you may

20:17

not want to sell it, $500,000 is still a lot of

20:19

money. And

20:22

I can take this money, I can go to Flugerville and

20:24

like be a part of a black community or I

20:27

can take their money and so like unlock some

20:29

opportunities for future generations. It's

20:31

just a really, it's a really tricky

20:33

thing, man. So given

20:35

the history of Austin, when three bombs explode at

20:38

the homes of black and Hispanic residents on the

20:40

east side, it's understandable that people

20:42

in those neighborhoods might think that race played

20:44

a role, that the victims were targeted

20:46

simply because of the color of their skin. Yet

20:49

law enforcement was hesitant to label the bombings

20:52

hate crimes. Special Agent Chris

20:54

Combs explains why. There

20:58

was a lot of community pressure and people were getting

21:00

out there saying it was a hate crime. Why won't

21:02

the FBI declare it a hate crime? But

21:05

here's the problem. Once you

21:07

say that, you can't reel that back in. The

21:11

FBI can't be wrong, right? We have to be right

21:13

or the media is going to tear us apart. And

21:15

if you're wrong, people lose faith

21:17

in what you're doing. There's

21:19

another camp that says you should declare this is terrorism.

21:22

Why aren't you saying this is terrorism? We

21:24

don't know what it is. And

21:27

we have no evidence that it's anything, to

21:29

be quite honest with you. And in fact,

21:31

even some conversations with DC, where

21:34

FBI headquarters was like, Chris,

21:36

what are you doing? Like, what

21:38

are you working it as? It's

21:40

not good to tell your boss that, hey, boss, we don't

21:42

know what this is. But

21:45

until we can definitively say what it

21:47

is, we are not going

21:49

to define it. It's

21:51

a bombing. We'll

21:59

be along. It's over. Your job,

22:01

Chef. Welcome to the world of spycraft. Shrap it. What

22:05

are you concealing? The

22:08

Sip-A-Fizer, streaming April 14th on Max. Subscription required. We're back.

22:11

We're back. We're back. We're

22:13

back. We're back. We're

22:15

back. We're back. We're back.

22:18

We're back. We're back. We're

22:20

back. We're back. We're

22:22

back. We're back. We're

22:24

back. We're back. We're back.

22:26

We're back. We're

22:29

back. We're back. We're back. Once

22:32

again, we're thinking about what the world might look like

22:34

once we lose, stop using, or just run out of

22:36

things that feel essential to our existence. What

22:38

happens when we can't rely on fossil fuels anymore?

22:41

Is eating meat really all that ethically dubious?

22:44

How are ads shaping our impulses, and what

22:46

happens if they go away? So

22:48

join us as we try to piece together what

22:50

happens when the things we've taken for granted start

22:53

to disappear. From Hyper Object

22:55

Industries and Sony Music Entertainment, listen to

22:57

it out wherever you get your podcasts.

23:07

In the chaos that followed the two package bombings

23:09

on March 12th, Austin Police Chief Brian

23:11

Manley cautioned the public about picking up packages

23:14

on their doorstep and to

23:16

call authorities if they found anything suspicious.

23:19

If you've received a package that has been left

23:21

on your doorstep or left in your yard or

23:23

left on your driveway that you were not expected

23:25

or that was not from someone you know, then

23:28

give us a call. It was

23:30

a short-term, sensible thing to do in the name

23:32

of public safety. On the other hand,

23:35

those types of blanket instructions from

23:37

a city leader can have unintended

23:39

consequences, especially for,

23:41

say, the bomb squad. Before,

23:44

we would get maybe four or five

23:47

calls a month that are suspicious package

23:49

calls. And me personally, after I

23:51

left the scene there and started taking calls,

23:53

I went to 25 suspicious package calls. Just

23:56

in that day. That's

24:00

insane because if there's a suspicious

24:02

package call, the Austin Police

24:05

Department bomb squad, they're going to send two

24:08

bomb technicians, a supervisor, a

24:10

K-9 unit, a gigantic truck,

24:12

some firemen, some EMS. So

24:15

this whole circus shows up to every

24:17

suspicious package call. That's just not possible.

24:21

So yeah, that was a seismic shift, if you will,

24:23

on just a method of operation.

24:27

We did not have a lot of time after

24:30

the third bombing to think and

24:32

reflect and plan. It

24:35

was really just like, you

24:37

two pair up in a car, you answer calls in

24:39

this part of town. You two pair up, you go

24:41

this way. Crazy

24:43

things were happening. We would

24:45

get called for a suspicious package and show up

24:47

and it's just someone's mail. So

24:50

you're picking up their mail and you're like, there you

24:52

go. And it's like the circulars that

24:54

come in the mail with all the coupons on. And

24:56

at first you get kind of frustrated about it, but

24:58

then you're like, Ron, what

25:01

if I didn't know my job? And I just

25:03

heard the police chief on the news and people

25:06

are dying from bombs and this thing's on my porch

25:08

and I don't know what bomb looks like. I'd probably

25:10

call it too. There's

25:16

more than a million people in Austin, most of

25:18

whom get packages. Journalist David Loeffler

25:20

remembers what it was like. To

25:23

save people on edge would be an understatement. My

25:26

mom lives in town and I was telling her not to pick

25:28

up any boxes. I came to her home. You drive down the

25:30

street and you see row by

25:32

row homes with boxes stacked

25:34

up outside of me. It was eerie. I mean, you

25:36

gotta remember this is 2018. So

25:39

this is just about the time that I

25:41

feel like everyone was ordering stuff online. The

25:47

bomb squad fielded hundreds of calls, almost all

25:50

of which were easily dismissed. But

25:52

every now and again, you'd find a package

25:54

that was legitimately suspicious. And

25:57

that would start the time consuming process of

25:59

examining and... X-raying and securing what

26:01

inevitably turned out to be nothing.

26:07

I remember going to a call on South

26:09

first street and had an apartment complex, a

26:11

young lady at a box sitting on her

26:13

porch and she didn't

26:16

recall ordering anything. The address wasn't visible. So

26:18

she's like, yeah, yeah, I don't know what

26:20

this is. So I was like, all right,

26:22

so go on the other side of your

26:24

apartment building and I put on my protective

26:26

equipment, go do some X-rays and all the

26:29

diagnostics that we could get to do with

26:31

it. And as soon as I

26:33

saw an X-ray of it, I immediately recognized

26:35

it. It

26:37

was lingerie. And

26:39

then there was the physical and emotional

26:41

strain on the bomb squad members themselves

26:44

and on their families during this 24 seven

26:47

round the clock, suspicious package patrol that was

26:49

also happening during one of the busiest times

26:52

of the year. Jeff

26:54

Joseph remembers this clearly. Your

26:59

whole life has built around protecting people

27:01

first and foremost, your family. So

27:04

whenever I would pull up at the house, I

27:06

would look at the door, make sure there's nothing

27:09

at my door. I told my wife and my

27:11

son, Hey, keep an eye out for what's, what's

27:13

happening around you. Look around your car,

27:15

look and make sure there's not something near

27:17

your car. If there's a box outside, maybe

27:20

let's don't pick it up and bring it in the house. It

27:22

just adds to everybody's

27:25

anxieties. I wouldn't

27:27

want to be in my wife's shoes thinking

27:30

about what I did every day. I'd rather

27:32

be in my shoes. I'm

27:34

sure the stress I want her ratcheted

27:37

up through the roof. Bomb

27:40

squad officer, Josh Oyhus was a new

27:42

father, so even more on edge.

27:46

My son was super young. He was

27:48

not even two yet. And

27:50

he refused to sleep. The kid would not sleep.

27:53

And so I had to sleep with him a

27:55

lot of nights. I

27:57

was like, I'm in a combat zone. So

27:59

I was hyperventilating. a individual and sleeping in his room at night.

28:02

I had the whole house planned out. I'm like, all right, we're not

28:04

gonna go out the front door. We're gonna go out the back door.

28:07

Cause I locked the gate upside. The

28:10

hardest thing was being away from him and

28:12

not being able to like hang on to him and keep him from

28:15

picking something up. But yeah, a lot of

28:17

stress. Like

28:20

I said, in my brain, we were in a

28:22

combat zone. So in a combat

28:24

zone, I'm not gonna let my guard down

28:26

and process things. Not

28:30

a survivable mindset to have. And

28:34

it wasn't just the bomb squad. Local

28:37

cops and federal agents were working around

28:39

the clock too. You're working so

28:41

hard that when you get to go to sleep, you sleep pretty

28:43

good. We go into 12

28:45

hour shifts and after

28:47

12 hours, you have to

28:49

leave because there's a lot of

28:51

studies out there that show after 12

28:54

hours, your mental capacity diminishes, accidents

28:57

increase. I'm pretty

28:59

serious about starting at the top, all

29:01

the way down, hey, we have to leave and turn that

29:04

over to the next team. We were

29:06

there so long though, I did have to call my

29:08

wife and say, hey, I need more clothes. I

29:10

did not pack for 17 days. So

29:13

my wife with the kids, they actually came

29:15

up and spent two nights with me at

29:18

the hotel, just to give me

29:20

a little mental break. All

29:22

those investigators working all those hours and

29:24

they've got plenty of evidence. They

29:27

just can't connect it to anyone. It's

29:30

unfortunate to say, but really there

29:32

aren't a lot of great hot leads. It's

29:35

really just old fashioned detective

29:38

agent work, trying to figure out

29:41

what is going on, trying to connect the victims,

29:43

trying to gather evidence. There's

29:46

clues in the evidence. There's always clues in the

29:48

evidence. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes

29:50

it's really hard. In this point, it's really

29:52

hard. Every

29:56

day without an arrest or even a suspect, every

29:59

hour, that a lethal threat to the public

30:01

goes unchecked, every minute that

30:04

hundreds of thousands of people at an internationally

30:06

renowned festival worry they might be caught in

30:08

a random bombing, the pressure

30:10

builds. And the whole country

30:12

is watching on 24-Hour Cable News. There's

30:18

the pressure of stopping

30:21

another bombing, and God

30:23

knows how many people get killed there. That

30:26

there's the pressure of, you're in

30:28

charge of this massive investigation. There's

30:31

the pressure of, you got 600 FBI

30:33

agents in town, and

30:36

you got to manage that. And

30:38

the way you deal with that is, you

30:41

have to bleed off some of that pressure, and that's by

30:43

building a proper command team. And

30:46

that's a skill set that I think we have

30:49

better than anybody in the world. Yet

30:52

the clock keeps ticking. Day

30:54

turns to night. Night turns to day. When

30:57

you've got nothing, you look at everything. Rob

31:00

Doniez was on the periphery of the hunt for a

31:02

suspect. Being on the outside

31:05

of the investigation, we were asking

31:07

the homicide investigators in ATF, all

31:09

right, what's next? What do you got? There

31:13

was a lot of theories and ideas

31:15

about who this person was, about why

31:17

it was happening. But

31:19

again, they were just theories and

31:22

ideas. Nothing

31:24

was really going anywhere. They

31:28

need another piece of the puzzle, but

31:30

to get that. I'm on the night shift, get

31:33

another call. Hey, there's been

31:35

another explosion. The bomber

31:38

would have to make another move. I was

31:40

screaming down to the scene as fast as

31:42

I could possibly drive. I got mad at

31:44

my suburban, it only goes 105. This

31:48

is completely random, because it's

31:50

a trip wire, so it doesn't make a difference

31:52

if a three-year-old kid walks

31:54

down the sidewalk or a 56-year-old

31:56

man, whoever walks down there is

31:58

tripping this down. completely random.

32:02

That's next time on Witnessed 19 Days.

32:17

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or getthebinge.com to learn more. This

32:51

episode of Witnessed 19 Days was reported and produced

32:53

by Eli Kors and Joshua Shafer of

32:56

Pegalo Pictures and Alvin Cowan. Executive

32:59

produced by Josh Dean, Vanessa

33:01

Gagroy-Odis, Adam Hoff, Ashland Krigbaum,

33:03

and Matthew Cher of Campsite

33:05

Media. Hosted and co-produced by me,

33:08

Sean Flynn, co-produced by Brian Hawes,

33:11

and co-produced by David Loeffler. Written

33:14

by Eli Kors. Edited

33:16

and assembled by Christy William Shafer. Original

33:18

series themed by Kevin

33:21

Ignatius of Dostapes. Interviews

33:23

recorded by Nicholas Sennakis, Eli Kors,

33:25

and Alvin Cowan. Sound

33:28

mix by Craig Placke. Production legal

33:30

by Sean Fawcett of Raymond Legal

33:32

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Sarah Burns and Diana Palacios of

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Davis Wright Tremaine. If

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