0:01

From luminary and viltet productions,

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it's wisdom from the top. Stories

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of crisis, failure, turnaround and

0:10

triumph from some of the greatest

0:12

leaders in the world. I'm

0:17

Guy Roz and I'm the show today why being a

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singular leader means involving

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everyone. There's a real

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difference between a leader that constantly says

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I versus a leader who says we.

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And I really believe in the

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we part of the equation. David

0:34

Novak and leading by bringing everyone

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along. Hi,

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2:31

today. David

2:36

Novak's been a driving force behind

2:39

some of the most ubiquitous brands

2:41

in fast food, Pizza Hut, Taco

2:43

Bell, and KFC among them. He's

2:46

a co-founder and former CEO of Yum!

2:48

Brands, one of the biggest

2:50

players in the quick service restaurant industry.

2:53

On top of all that, David's taken

2:55

the lessons he's learned over the course

2:58

of his career and built it into

3:00

programs taught through his company, David Novak

3:02

Leadership, and at the University of Missouri.

3:05

David's also written massive best sellers in

3:08

the business and leadership category, including

3:10

taking people with you, the education

3:13

of an accidental CEO, oh,

3:15

great one, and his very latest,

3:17

co-authored with Jason Goldsmith, Take

3:19

Charge of You, how self-coaching

3:22

can transform your life and

3:24

career. One of David's

3:26

secret weapons as a leader in places

3:28

like Pepsi and KFC was his ability

3:31

to quickly get the lay of the

3:33

land and connect with the people who

3:35

work for and with him. It's

3:38

something he started learning to do as a kid.

3:40

By the time David was in seventh grade, his

3:43

family had lived in 32 trailer parks across 23

3:45

states. His

3:48

dad was a government surveyor. He worked

3:50

on the longitude and latitude marks that

3:52

formed the foundation of the GPS system.

3:55

And his surveying work took the family

3:57

all over the middle of the United

3:59

States. Actually,

4:01

I think it was the greatest upbringing

4:03

anybody could ever have. Why

4:06

is that? Well, you

4:08

know, my mom would check me into

4:10

these schools. And by the

4:12

way, my mom just turned 92 years old today,

4:14

but she would check me into these schools and

4:16

she'd say, David, you better make

4:19

friends because we're leaving. And

4:22

she was right. I had three months to

4:24

basically make friends and get settled and then

4:26

do it all over again. So it really

4:28

gave me a great learning experience. It was

4:30

really able to scope out the situation, look

4:32

at the people in the class that I

4:34

really wanted to become friends with. And you

4:36

know, one of the things I learned is

4:39

you're only one good friend away from happiness.

4:41

And if I could just find one good

4:43

friend and you named the town,

4:45

it could be Chama, New Mexico or, or,

4:47

uh, to come carry or, or

4:50

pre-mont Texas or Kimball, Nebraska. If I

4:52

could just find that one person and

4:54

make a friend with him, uh, you know, my life

4:57

all of a sudden became a lot better and I

4:59

was happy. Wow. But

5:01

you know, people always ask me, well, how could you,

5:03

how could you grow up like that? You

5:06

know, uh, I lived in a trailer, uh, it was eight feet

5:08

wide by 46 feet long and you know,

5:11

I just thought everybody did it. And you

5:13

know, I don't think I succeeded in spite

5:15

of my upbringing. I think I succeeded because

5:17

of it. And it's really kind of funny,

5:19

no matter where I am with my family,

5:21

when I get together with my two sisters

5:23

and my mom and dad, no matter how

5:25

big the house might be, we always

5:28

end up sitting on top of each other. You

5:30

know, cause you know, we just, you know,

5:33

we had that close, we were truly a

5:35

close knit family in every respect. When

5:38

you, I know you went to college at the university

5:40

of Missouri, um, to study journalism

5:43

and also a bit of

5:45

advertising, but was that your, was

5:48

that your intention? Did you think that you wanted to go

5:50

out and become a reporter? Well,

5:52

you know, uh, when I was

5:54

in high school, I was editor of my high

5:56

school newspaper, a sports editor, and you know, I

5:58

knew I had writing skills. And I

6:00

thought that that might be my

6:03

career vocation. But what really

6:05

happened is I took some advertising courses and

6:07

absolutely fell in love with them. And once

6:09

that happened, I knew that what I wanted

6:11

to do was get into marketing and advertising.

6:13

Because I really loved getting

6:16

inside the heads of consumers and

6:18

understanding how they think. And

6:21

I think it's my orientation from traveling around

6:23

that really made me intuitively

6:26

become a halfway decent marketer. Because

6:28

I had to gauge situations

6:30

and understand how people think. And

6:33

I realized that's what you have to

6:35

do in marketing and advertising. And that

6:37

became the real path for me. And

6:40

I think this was the mid-70s when you

6:42

embarked on your career in advertising. And I

6:45

guess you worked for agencies in Washington, DC,

6:48

and Pittsburgh, and then in New York

6:50

before you moved to Dallas to

6:53

work for the agency, Tracy Lock BBDO, where

6:55

I guess you've worked on some pretty big

6:58

accounts like Free LA and Pepsi. And

7:01

it sounds like your work there wasn't strictly

7:03

advertising, but also on branding and

7:07

things like that. Yeah, I worked

7:09

on creative branding and ideas. And

7:11

my job was to basically provide

7:13

the strategy for all of that

7:15

work. And then work

7:17

with the advertising creative people to come up

7:20

with the right solutions and then sell it

7:22

to the client. But I always viewed myself

7:24

to be a total business

7:26

person. One of the things

7:28

I'm most proud of that I was able to do at Free

7:30

LA was their sales had started to

7:32

stall. And they needed

7:34

to have some product news. And I was

7:36

working on the Doritos account. And Nacho Cheese

7:39

Doritos was the big, big

7:41

mother lode for Doritos. And

7:44

I said, we need a new flavor. So I

7:46

took my team, and we went to the grocery

7:48

store. And we looked at all the different items

7:50

in the grocery store. And we stumbled on the

7:52

salad dressing aisle. And we

7:54

saw all these facings of ranch

7:57

flavored dressing. And

7:59

I love it. learned from that trip that

8:01

ranch dressing was the fastest growing flavor

8:04

in the salad dressing industry. So

8:08

I said, what if we put some

8:10

ranch flavoring on a Dorito?

8:12

So I went and met with Dennis

8:15

Hurd, the head of R&D at Frito-Lay,

8:17

and we created ranch flavored

8:19

Doritos. And then we said, okay, we need

8:21

to put a unique image on a known

8:23

quantity, the known quantity being Doritos in ranch,

8:26

and we called it Cool Ranch Doritos. And

8:29

that is one of the largest and most

8:31

successful and profitable products in the grocery store

8:33

today. Yeah, it's amazing. I

8:35

mean, I remember as a kid when those came out. I

8:37

can remember that because, you know, it's such an iconic product.

8:41

I mean, it is amazing. I

8:43

mean, you know, it's one of the ways

8:46

to come up with ideas is to just look

8:48

around, just kind of be in the world and

8:51

look around you. And

8:54

that is ultimately how some

8:56

of these products emerge. Yeah,

8:59

I think I call it pattern thinking. You know,

9:01

I always believed in doing best practice visits and

9:04

looking to see what other people are doing in

9:06

other categories and then say, hey, if

9:08

they're doing it there, how could

9:10

we do it here in

9:12

a way that works for us? You know, another

9:15

good example of this is when

9:17

I was running marketing for Pizza Hut, you

9:19

know, one of the hot new concepts in

9:21

the pizza industry at the time was California

9:24

Pizza Kitchen. And

9:26

you've probably been there, but you can get all

9:28

kinds of different pizzas. So I

9:30

took my team out to Los Angeles and

9:32

we went in and we ordered Thai chicken

9:34

pizza and barbecue chicken pizza and all these

9:36

exotic toppings. And we're really excited by the

9:38

concept. And I came back and I said,

9:40

okay, we don't have all these kinds of

9:42

toppings in a pizza, but what do we

9:44

have that we could do where we could

9:46

create our own line of specialty pizzas? We

9:50

decided we just doubled the number of pepperonis

9:52

on the pizza and

9:54

we created pepperoni lovers. And by the

9:56

way, it was the most successful new

9:59

product launch. at Pizza Hut and canned

10:01

pizza. And then we said,

10:03

okay, what about, we have a lot of meat. Well

10:05

we created beet lovers. Then we did

10:08

cheese lovers. Then we did veggie lovers.

10:10

And the lovers line of pizza is

10:12

the biggest line of pizza in the

10:14

pizza category today. So

10:16

you, this is

10:19

a good segue into your time at Pizza

10:21

Hut, you move into a management position and

10:24

marketing at Pizza Hut, I think around 1986. And

10:29

this sort of really, I mean

10:31

I think earlier as an advertising person

10:34

working with Frito Lay that was really

10:36

your entry point into food. But going

10:38

to work for Pizza Hut, really you

10:40

begin your journey into the

10:42

quick service restaurants category.

10:45

Tell me a little bit about where Pizza Hut

10:47

was at the time. I mean I remember,

10:50

I mean it's an iconic brand, it's everywhere.

10:52

But was it the leading pizza brand in

10:54

the US in the late 80s? Yes,

10:58

it was the leading pizza brand in the US in the

11:00

late 80s and still is today as the most

11:03

units of any pizza brand.

11:07

And at the time, Pizza Hut was

11:09

known for being a dine-in restaurant. Many

11:12

people had their first dates at a Pizza

11:14

Hut and it was primarily a brand that

11:16

was located and heavily concentrated in the Midwest

11:18

and small town America. And

11:22

the brand was really struggling when

11:24

I went to Pizza Hut. The same store

11:26

sales were negative because Domino's had

11:28

come in and was building

11:31

this whole new category called delivery.

11:34

And Pizza Hut was not in the

11:36

delivery business. And so

11:38

when I went there, Pizza Hut had

11:40

just gotten into the delivery businesses and

11:42

was failing miserably at it. But

11:45

I worked with our team and

11:47

we figured out how to grow the

11:49

delivery business. In fact, we more

11:51

than doubled the sales rather

11:54

quickly and really turned the Pizza

11:56

Hut business around. But we

11:58

had to get into the delivery business. because

12:00

that's really where the growth was. And by the

12:02

way, that's where the growth is today. So

12:05

presumably that was a significant challenge.

12:07

I mean, certainly in the late 80s when,

12:11

obviously we didn't have smartphones and apps and

12:13

a bigger deal, and Domino's, right, they had

12:15

this 30 minute guarantee

12:17

at the time. So I have to imagine

12:20

that put some pressure on Pizza Hut. Yeah.

12:23

Well, Domino's was 100% focused on delivery and

12:28

Pizza Hut was, we called them Red

12:30

Roofs, was focused on the dining business.

12:32

So you had to totally transform the

12:34

attitude of the company to

12:36

say, hey, I've got to get into delivery business.

12:38

And you needed to get into delivery business in

12:40

the same trade area where you had a dine-in

12:44

restaurant. So that means you had to

12:46

cannibalize yourself. So it

12:48

was very challenging to get the franchisees

12:50

and even the company people to get

12:53

on board and say, hey, we really have to change to

12:55

make sure that we grow for the future.

12:58

How did you, you

13:00

were still, ostensibly, in marketing? I

13:03

mean, this wasn't your role.

13:05

You were your self-images as a marketer.

13:08

You eventually would go to

13:10

PepsiCo as a marketing executive.

13:13

Was that sort of the image that others

13:15

had of you? And was

13:17

that kind of where people saw you as

13:19

a, he's the marketing guy? Oh,

13:22

that's really a great question because it

13:25

really kind of brings me to one of the pivot points of

13:27

my career. Yeah, I was

13:29

definitely a marketing person and creative. And I

13:31

was different. You know, I

13:33

like to have a lot of fun.

13:36

And I was very outspoken in terms

13:38

of what things need to be done.

13:40

And the chairman of PepsiCo was Wayne

13:42

Callaway. And I got

13:44

promoted to be the executive VP of marketing

13:46

sales for the Pepsi-Cola company. So every quarter,

13:48

I would go over and see Wayne. And

13:51

one time he asked me, he said, David, he

13:54

says, what do you want to do with your career? And

13:56

I said, well, I would like to become a division

13:58

president. And,

14:00

you know, PepsiCo had pizza, KFC, Taco Bell,

14:02

Frito-Lay, and Pepsi, and I didn't care which

14:05

one of the divisions I got to run,

14:07

but I wanted to become a division president.

14:09

He says, David, you're a really good marketing

14:11

guy. And I said, but Wayne, I

14:14

want to be a division president. He said, David,

14:16

you're a really good marketing guy. And I said,

14:18

well, I really want to run the whole show.

14:20

I want to run a division. He says, David,

14:22

I'll make you president of marketing. We don't have

14:24

the marketers that we need to have in this

14:26

company, and you can build that function. And

14:28

I said, well, what is the marketing for PepsiCo? Well,

14:31

that was a great meeting because when I walked out

14:34

of that office, I knew Wayne thought a lot of

14:36

me, but I knew he saw me only as a

14:38

marketing person. And that I, if

14:40

I was going to become a general manager,

14:42

I was going to have to demonstrate that I

14:44

could really have empathy for operations and the

14:46

total business. So I went

14:49

back and I begged my boss at

14:51

the time for the chief operating officer

14:53

role of PepsiCola when that one opened

14:55

up. And he gave

14:57

me a shot at that, and I

14:59

was able to do a halfway decent job at that. And

15:02

that opened up the door for me

15:04

ultimately to become president of KFC. You

15:07

essentially had to make that pivot into

15:09

operations to sort of demonstrate that and

15:11

change the perceptions around you that you

15:14

were more than the

15:17

marketing guy. I mean, the great place

15:19

to be, right, because it's a creative position,

15:21

but sometimes the operators

15:23

don't think of the marketers as

15:27

people who could lead companies. Yeah.

15:29

By the way, I was not just a marketing

15:32

person. I was an advertising, I was a

15:34

marketing person with an advertising background and I

15:36

didn't have an MBA. Right. So,

15:39

you know, that was, you know, I think that made

15:41

it harder for people to see me as a

15:44

general business person. So

15:46

I did have to get out of my comfort zone. But

15:49

you know, I found when I went into the operating

15:51

role that I was

15:54

just very open and honest with all the

15:56

operating people. And I said, listen, I don't

15:58

know operations like you do. I don't

16:00

know my way around a bottling plant like you

16:02

do, but I know you know this business cold

16:04

and I need you and

16:06

together we can figure out what needs to

16:09

be done and really improve

16:11

our operations and You could

16:13

really help me do that, but I can't do it

16:15

without you So and so I

16:17

brought in all the top operators at Pepsi

16:19

Cola company ask them what was working what

16:21

wasn't working and we developed

16:24

new processes and new ways to

16:26

distribute our products because we work

16:28

together and I learned

16:30

a big lesson there is that you know if

16:32

you're vulnerable and you tell people I need you

16:34

guess what? They'll get behind you yeah If you

16:36

go in and you try to fake it and

16:38

act like you knew more than them and that

16:40

you're the person that's at The top they'll stiff

16:42

arm you in their own way Yeah,

16:45

it reminds me of something that that another guest

16:47

we've held in the show Mark King who you

16:49

may know that the current CEO of Taco

16:52

Bell Said he said

16:54

your job as a CEO is not to have the answers,

16:57

but to find the people who do have the answers I

17:00

Couldn't agree more and I'm so glad that he

17:02

he said that and that's one

17:05

of the reasons why when I was doing the

17:07

operating job I left on you know

17:09

Monday morning came back on Saturday But

17:11

every morning I would do these roundtables

17:14

in the bottling plants with the people on the front

17:16

line and I had

17:19

two experiences that were really seminal

17:21

The first was I went into this

17:24

Baltimore plant and it was our toughest

17:26

plant and I went into this

17:28

place and everybody was Bitching about how bad

17:30

things were at the plant and you

17:32

know This wasn't happening that

17:34

wasn't happening and so I brought them all the

17:36

top leaders in this was Union plant I brought

17:39

them in and I said okay. Let's

17:41

let's list all the things that are going on

17:43

wrong here, okay, and you know We

17:46

listen a lot and I said I'm gonna bring in

17:48

Rod Gordon and he's the plant manager We're gonna talk

17:50

to him about this Okay And so we brought him

17:52

in and they talked about all the things are going

17:54

wrong and and then this one kind of coy guy

17:56

Goes hey listen you sound like you're a pretty good

17:59

guy guy, he says, but what are you going to

18:01

do about all this? And

18:03

I said, absolutely nothing. I said, the only

18:05

thing I'm going to do is I'm going

18:08

to come back in six months and see

18:10

what you guys have done to fix all

18:12

these problems. And you know, when

18:15

I came back six months later, that

18:17

team was waiting for me, and they couldn't

18:19

wait to show me all the great things

18:21

that they'd done. You know, but

18:23

I think you really have to shift accountability and

18:25

ownership to the people who can really make it

18:27

happen. And then another thing

18:29

that happened to me in one of these

18:31

roundtables I had is I was in St.

18:33

Louis, Missouri. And I think

18:36

this actually is the most

18:38

seminal moment in my career. I

18:40

was talking to a group of route salesmen about

18:43

what was working and merchandising and what

18:45

wasn't. And there's

18:47

like 10 people sitting around this

18:50

table and everybody started talking about Bob

18:52

who was sitting directly across from me.

18:55

They were saying, boy, if you want to learn about

18:57

merchandising, go with Bob into a store. He'll show you

19:00

how to get the facings. He'll show you how to

19:02

do the point of purchase. He'll show

19:04

you how to talk to customers and build

19:06

relationships. One guy said, I learned more from

19:08

Bob in, you know, one day than I

19:11

learned my first two years on the job.

19:13

And everybody was saying Bob was amazing. So

19:15

I look across the table and there's

19:17

Bob and he's crying. He

19:20

literally had tears in his eyes. And I go,

19:22

Bob, these people are heaping all this praise on

19:24

you. Why are you crying? And

19:26

he said, you know what? He said, I've been

19:29

in this company for 47 years. I'm retiring

19:31

in two weeks and I didn't know people

19:33

felt this way about me. And

19:36

that hit me in the gut like you can't

19:38

believe. And I said to myself

19:41

from this day forward, I'm

19:43

going to do everything I can to make

19:45

sure that the Bobs of the world are

19:47

recognized and valued for what they do. The

19:51

thought of somebody being that good

19:54

and not feeling appreciated for so

19:56

long really just it's

19:58

sickened me. And the other thing was is this. This guy was

20:00

so good at what he did, if people

20:02

really would have had their eyes open towards

20:05

that, he could have maybe taken on even

20:07

more responsibility and spread his talents. We're

20:11

going to take a quick break, but when

20:13

we come back, how that moment with Bob

20:15

in St. Louis changed the course of David

20:17

Novak's career. Stay with us. I'm

20:20

Guy Roz, and you're listening to Wisdom from the

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today. Hey,

22:55

welcome back to wisdom from the top.

22:57

I'm Guy Roz. Before the break, David

22:59

Novak was talking about how he learned

23:02

the simple lesson that making employees feel

23:04

appreciated and valued was one

23:06

of the most important things a

23:08

leader could do. So

23:10

that experience, and you've written about this in your

23:13

books, actually was a

23:15

seminal moment as you describe it because at

23:17

that point you decided to make that your

23:19

North Star, your priority as a leader, that

23:21

you would focus on recognition,

23:23

which seems like a no brainer, right? That

23:26

every leader should do that, but

23:28

actually it takes a lot of work

23:31

and focus and effort to do

23:33

that because as a leader, you

23:35

have thousands of things coming

23:38

across your desk. But to focus

23:40

on recognizing good

23:42

work always constantly, consistently

23:45

is really hard. You

23:47

know, it really is, but nothing

23:49

will have a bigger payout. And I

23:51

was blessed because I got the opportunity

23:53

to go become the president of KFC

23:55

shortly after that experience. And

23:57

When I went to KFC, KFC was sort of a.

24:00

The Ugly Duckling of the Pepsico families.

24:02

It had been acquired but it hadn't

24:04

had for sales growth for a number

24:06

years. The prophets were were stagnant and

24:09

I was brought into turn around the

24:11

business and at the time the franchisees

24:13

hated the company and the company. A

24:15

To the franchisees though the work environment

24:18

was terrible so. I knew I

24:20

needed to do something to change the

24:22

game and I wanted to show people

24:24

that I was a different kind of

24:26

leader and that we're gonna have really

24:28

changed your attitude as it relates to

24:30

working together. And I thought recognition could

24:32

be the big key driver. So I

24:34

wanted to have a really great and

24:37

fun way to recognize people because you

24:39

know when I went to Tear See

24:41

I was coming in from Pensacola and

24:43

all the franchisees hated the people from

24:45

Pepsi. they songs blue suit, wide yards

24:47

read ties very stiff. But I

24:49

was not that way. And I wanted to

24:51

demonstrate to them the hate. I'm not just

24:53

another Pepsi got. So I wanted to have

24:56

a fun way to recognize people. I found

24:58

out that this guy and I t it's

25:00

was given way these rubber floppy chicken said

25:02

that monthly meeting that he had. So

25:05

I went to my said you know I

25:07

want to make recognition a big deal. It

25:09

would be all right with you if I

25:11

took your floppy check it and made that

25:13

the recognition award for the President of day.

25:16

As he said he said sure you could

25:18

do it it out and so I took

25:20

these rubber chickens and when I went into

25:22

a store I would you know Ceo our

25:24

Oc, our original recipe cook in The quality

25:26

was great and I would whip out my

25:28

rubber chicken and I'd number it and it

25:31

I'd ride on and say you know yeah

25:33

Ralph your original recipe is critically. important qualities

25:35

the most important thing we do thanks for

25:37

be in a great original recipe chef for

25:39

the last eighteen years i appreciate what you

25:42

do i would sign it a case i'd

25:44

take a picture of him as i say

25:46

amen to send you this picture frames you

25:48

could draw the trash if you are but

25:50

your pictures gonna go on my wall a

25:53

game because i'm going to fill my office

25:55

walls up with people who are making a

25:57

half an hour for our customers and you

25:59

know Well, it was amazing the

26:01

power of this rubber chicken. I

26:03

mean, people would laugh, cry, but

26:05

they love getting this rubber chicken.

26:08

And I have to tell you, it was

26:10

the thing that I think really helped me

26:13

turn around KFC because people saw that I

26:15

was going to be different and I valued

26:17

recognition. And then what happened

26:19

is people saw the power of recognition and

26:21

then everybody else came up with their own

26:24

individual recognition awards. And they

26:26

started giving them out and recognition

26:28

became the big behavioral driver that

26:30

we had in the company. And

26:33

people always ask me, how did you turn around

26:35

KFC? And the finance

26:37

people would tell you, well, it

26:39

was, you had baked chicken, crispy

26:41

strips, pot pie, all these new

26:43

products. And I'd say, yeah, that's true. But

26:46

I think what turned around KFC

26:48

was unleashing the human spirit of

26:50

people. One

26:52

of the things that few people realize, especially

26:54

at a company like KFC, is that to

26:56

be the head of KFC, you

26:59

are leading employees who work for

27:01

the corporate entity, right? But you're

27:03

also essentially running a trade association

27:05

of hundreds of franchise owners because

27:08

those employees who work at the KFC are

27:10

working for that franchise owner, essentially. They're not

27:12

working for the CEO of KFC. And

27:15

so it's a lot of people management. It's a

27:17

lot of ego management. A lot of the franchise

27:20

owners are small business owners. They're very proud.

27:23

They don't like corporate meddling in their

27:25

affairs, rightfully so. And

27:27

there are a lot of competing views on

27:30

how the corporate entity

27:32

should operate. And you're getting all

27:34

that incoming as the head

27:36

of the division. How

27:39

did you kind of deal

27:41

with competing egos and folks

27:44

who were sort of trying to tell you how

27:47

to do your job? Was it a little bit

27:49

about ego management? Well, I Guess

27:51

to a certain extent it was. What I

27:53

Looked at was a situation that I was

27:55

walking into. I was walking into a situation

27:57

where nobody was working together and people... That

28:00

are all kinds. The animosity against each

28:02

other and in the company had failed

28:04

because it hadn't worked with franchisees. So

28:06

I knew I had to change the

28:08

tone. So I sold my leadership team.

28:10

I said, let me tell you something.

28:13

I love franchisees. You're going to work with

28:15

franchisees, it's gonna be key to us turn

28:17

him around if you have any issues with

28:20

the franchisees com thought to be and will

28:22

figure it out. But together we've gotta turn

28:24

this business around and we gotta get our

28:26

franchisees make it had happened with us because

28:29

of we don't get them to go with

28:31

us. will be in the same position next

28:33

year. And you're right

28:35

about franchisees. They have real trust issues with

28:37

corporate owners. A lot of times they don't

28:40

feel like they're listen to you know? So

28:42

what I did is I went around the

28:44

country p A C had nine regional associations

28:46

and I had a meeting, said every one

28:49

of those associations and said okay we've got

28:51

a challenge here We go to turn his

28:53

business around. I want you guys to get

28:56

together in groups of eight and come back

28:58

to me and tell me what you would

29:00

do if you were me and in a

29:02

what you would do if. You were with

29:05

the the Ceo of Kfc and you know

29:07

I got their input and then I said

29:09

okay this is what she told me this

29:11

is what we're going to do and I

29:13

played it back to mouth. By the way,

29:15

various sites were basically the same as mine.

29:19

You know that N N in fact

29:21

probably more grounded and more facts them

29:23

what I could at a relatively short

29:25

period of time and then I would

29:27

just singh from the mountain tops what they've

29:29

done to help us grow the business.

29:31

You know, like we had a franchisee

29:33

developed crispy strips. And you know

29:35

it was it. A franchisee who was

29:37

doing it and a test market on

29:40

his own without tell anybody down Arkansas.

29:42

Well I had my marketing guy come

29:44

into mean sex. can you believe those

29:46

guys did a test market without telling

29:48

us and I said how's it doing

29:50

a civil The sales are up nine

29:52

percent. I saw a get your been

29:54

here over your we're going to Arkansas

29:56

right now and we were down Arkansas.

29:59

We learned about the product, what they

30:01

were do with it, how the builder

30:03

supply chain around on a national basis.

30:05

We roll that thing out or sales

30:07

went up eight percent. Okay in in

30:09

the old days that franchisee would have

30:11

been just chastising silver innovating coming out

30:13

with his new products. Also created a

30:15

chef kitchen. I got the franchisees that

30:17

were most passionate about food and I

30:20

got them to come into law. will

30:22

add with their recipes and we would

30:24

try all kinds of new products with

30:26

are already teams. We did so much

30:28

food guys I would have. To go

30:30

home and take a nap at his best

30:32

for thirty every all this foods but you

30:35

know what? We develop our chicken pot pie

30:37

from that which was very successful still in

30:39

the marketplace but it came from this a

30:41

chef council and you know once people see

30:44

how much you care about the business and

30:46

how much you care about what they have

30:48

to offer, they're gonna give you their heart

30:50

and soul. Yeah. I'm one

30:53

of the back to something that that happened

30:55

a few years earlier and it's about risk

30:57

taking. I'm in a minute sound that risky

30:59

to be policy but it it was hugely

31:02

risky because it in and it's million hundred

31:04

million dollars are involved in unveiling any product

31:06

and you were. Your.

31:08

Credited with actually inventing a product that

31:10

I think I'm one of the see

31:12

people who really loved actually Crystal Pepsi.

31:15

I like this. I remember. it's it.

31:17

I liked Crystal Pepsi. I'm

31:19

but it was a failure. For.

31:22

A variety of reasons and and and

31:25

may be some this recent aren't clear

31:27

but why using that product didn't work.

31:30

Well first I have to give you

31:32

a little backdrop on it. He'd I

31:34

got just moved into the Marty marking

31:36

roll from Pizza Hut or to the

31:38

to head Pepsi Cola marketing and you

31:40

know the first thing you gotta do

31:42

is assess what's going on the category

31:44

and I saw all these clear products

31:47

were growing rapidly you know clearly Canadian

31:49

was really a he had yeah lot

31:51

of the water products were taken off

31:53

flavored waters and so I just for

31:55

hidden in my office one day look

31:57

now and I said so what else

31:59

What. We came up with a clear Pepsi.

32:02

And. I thought gosh, that would

32:04

be so shocking And then I called up

32:07

the Chairman of Pepsico Roger recurrence of what

32:09

if we did a clear passes unilaterally good

32:11

idea. go out and talk to customers and

32:13

see what they think so we go out

32:15

and to share with customers and consumers as

32:18

a lot easier to yeah. They. Absolutely

32:20

loved it. It was unbelievable. In

32:22

fact we quickly developed the product

32:24

okay and we put it into

32:26

test market and in in Boulder

32:28

Colorado In the day the product

32:30

came off the boggling line it

32:32

was the feature story on the

32:34

Cbs Evening News with the and

32:36

rather he said today in Boulder

32:38

Colorado classical or launched a Crystal

32:40

Pepsi. Now let me tell you

32:43

something at that point guy I

32:45

thought I was a team has

32:47

the biggest winner in America Yeah

32:49

I had. The biggest winner, the biggest

32:51

idea of ever ads people worship and

32:53

Crystal Pepsi from Colorado to different states

32:55

just like they did Coors beer. At

32:57

one point in time this was a

32:59

home run. So now what is what

33:01

happens if Pepsi? It's he got a

33:03

big idea what he had a the

33:05

league Geico big you gotta go begging

33:07

Guess where you go? The biggest super

33:09

now. I developed this product with my

33:11

team back in in in the summer

33:14

so I reading in six months I

33:16

got to get this product a test

33:18

market and then get it to. National

33:20

by time you have the Superbowl so

33:22

I'm like a seat seeking missile. This

33:24

product is great and so are now.

33:26

I gotta get the Pepsi bombers together

33:28

Now these are the franchise owners again.

33:30

Here's where I learned my lesson that

33:32

I that help me a lot will

33:34

have a President gave seats. I went

33:36

to these guys and I subs. Here's

33:38

this products he had a taste or

33:40

they taste of privacy David this is

33:42

a great idea. There's only one problem.

33:45

And. I said was that they said

33:47

doesn't taste enough like Patsy and I

33:49

say. Well we're calling and you know

33:51

Crystal Pepsi at but we wanted to

33:53

be a lighter color of flavor. We

33:56

don't want to taste exactly like Pensacola

33:58

because because assist you know it's. It's

34:00

get it'll just cannibalize or businesses bring

34:02

in a new user group Nato yeah,

34:04

David's which are call it does. He

34:06

doesn't have enough test score flavor notes

34:08

and I said yes but we want

34:10

to get incremental users and I just

34:12

totally blew him off and I totally

34:14

didn't really look hard enough and what

34:16

they're real issue was. So.

34:19

Anyway, we end up the good old watching

34:21

this product on the Superbowl. Okay and it's

34:24

the first product in the history of Pensacola

34:26

that was ever introduced at a premium price.

34:28

Now this really made me mad is I

34:31

want to get a lot of. Thrones is

34:33

probably going to have lower pricing but the

34:35

bombers they charge more for us a why

34:37

are you charging a premium prices and he

34:40

said look David this is a really good

34:42

idea people are gonna try but they're not

34:44

gonna come back and bias. Yeah so we

34:46

my as will make a profit. Always put

34:49

it. In the store? How to him? So

34:51

he launches. And he we launch

34:53

it on the Superbowl. And. It

34:55

got a massive trial. But

34:57

the read repurchase of the product

35:00

was extremely low. Guess why guy?

35:03

Because. It didn't is a Pepsi. Didn't.

35:05

Taste enough myself says okay so I

35:07

said near with the greatest idea I've

35:10

ever had. I didn't listen. people who

35:12

knew more about the business than I

35:14

did. And. Their gut instincts and franchisees

35:16

have great gut instincts. Can I force this

35:19

product in? I not only forced to product

35:21

in but our head of our and d

35:23

I we would. We worked at night and

35:25

day to get this thing done but we

35:27

didn't do enough quality control testing. Okay,

35:30

So in some parts the country the

35:32

product didn't have the clarity that it

35:34

needed have as little cloudy. Okay, so

35:36

Saturday Night Live did a parody of

35:38

it. Where. They basically suit poured

35:40

the crystal Pepsi on mashed potatoes

35:42

or case if it was like

35:44

it was horrifying. I'm sidner watch

35:46

and saturday like lot of people

35:49

who lost his yeah nobody does

35:51

now but anyway it was like

35:53

oh my gosh you know but

35:55

this product when we developed it

35:57

was listed as one the top

35:59

ten. Innovations of the Year okay

36:01

and then in two thousand Time Magazine

36:03

look back on all the market enough

36:05

products and in as he was a

36:07

top ten list of failures as the

36:09

last century for caped. so I went

36:11

from being a genius to real dummy

36:13

in a hurry. When

36:16

we come back in just a moment,

36:18

Steve Novak recovers from the Crystal Pepsi

36:21

hangover and rises to the leadership and

36:23

young foods they would us and Guy

36:25

rise. And you're listening to wisdom from

36:27

the top. Generative,

36:36

A I is not a one size

36:38

fits all. If. You're powering a

36:40

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top I'm Garage So in eighty ninety

39:01

seven Pepsico spun off it's booed brands

39:03

chief among them Kfc, Taco Bell and

39:05

pizza it into a company that is

39:07

today known as Yum Brands and David

39:09

O. Back became that company's president, working

39:12

closely with his friend and mentor and

39:14

be Pearson and we were spun off

39:16

for reasons we're seeing sort of the

39:18

you know that we are a drag

39:20

on Pepsico as earnings by Wall Street

39:23

because he had put a lot of

39:25

capital in the restaurant. race their way

39:27

said you need to focus on packaged

39:29

goods does the restaurant business should be

39:31

spun off of the they could focus

39:33

solely on the restaurants and that was

39:35

the that the thinking behind the business

39:37

and the restaurants have been very underperforming

39:40

poor same store sales poor return on

39:42

investment capital so you know i had

39:44

the opportunity to do with my daughter

39:46

that time would a call be no

39:48

a gigantic do over you know we

39:50

had this great company three gray brands

39:52

twenty two thousand restaurants eighty percent of

39:54

our business was in the united states

39:57

and i had the chance to say

39:59

that company, create a total new culture,

40:01

get focused on what really matters in

40:03

the restaurant industry, and really build a

40:05

world-class company. And boy, did we have

40:07

a lot of fun doing it.

40:09

You, this was also a chance for you, as you

40:11

say, to really kind of put in

40:13

practice all of these things that you'd learned over

40:16

the course of your career and the practices that

40:18

you had used in other places, but to do

40:20

it at a much bigger scale

40:22

at YAM. And you wrote a book about it based

40:24

on this management course that

40:27

you integrated into YAM and into

40:29

the training programs there. I think

40:31

it was called Taking People With You. Was it the name of

40:33

the program? Yes, that was it.

40:36

One of the things that Andy Pearson did for

40:38

me was he opened up all kinds of doors.

40:40

And just as we were getting ready to take

40:42

our company public, he set up a meeting with

40:45

he and I and Jack Welch. And

40:47

so I was so excited about this. Yeah, Jack

40:50

Welch of GE, the biggest CEO in the world.

40:52

Yeah. And so I took my notepad in there,

40:54

and I'm asking him all kinds of questions. And

40:56

the last question I asked him, I said, what

40:59

would you do if you were me going

41:01

out and starting this new company? How would

41:04

you spend your time? He said, you know,

41:06

David, when I became CEO of GE, I

41:08

immediately started cutting costs because I knew we

41:10

had to have fewer, better jobs. I knew

41:12

we had to get our cost structure right.

41:15

But I quickly got this nickname that

41:17

I'm not too proud of, which was

41:19

Neutron Jack. It's because I was

41:21

blowing up everything. And worse yet, people didn't know

41:23

why I was doing everything. The people in the

41:25

company just thought I was sort of a loose

41:27

cannon. He said, so what

41:30

I would do is if I were you is

41:32

find a way to get out and to talk

41:34

about what kind of company you want to build,

41:36

what your culture is going to be, let people

41:38

know who you are and what you're all about.

41:42

And so that

41:44

really was a powerful learning

41:46

for me, because just

41:48

before we were spun off, Roger and Rico

41:50

had asked me to develop a training program

41:52

for high potential Pepsi executives. And I had

41:55

finished it off. It's called taking people with

41:57

you. And I was about ready to give

41:59

it one. I heard about the spin-off and

42:01

so I canceled the program and I just kind

42:03

of put the program in my drawer. But after

42:05

I heard Jack's advice, I

42:08

went back pulled out that training program, tailored

42:10

it towards the restaurant industry and began my

42:12

journey to start teaching it around the world.

42:14

And I had my first Taking People With

42:17

You program with eight general managers

42:19

in Europe and guess what? Everything Jack Wells

42:21

said was right. People wondered, you know, what

42:23

our culture was going to be, you know,

42:25

what I'm like, what our strategy is going

42:27

to be. And I was able to talk

42:30

about that and also get to know each one of

42:32

them. And the other

42:34

thing I had people do was come to the

42:36

program with the single biggest thing that they're working

42:38

on that could grow our company and improve our

42:41

stock performance. And so I

42:43

learned what the big projects were when

42:45

I had these leadership seminars. So the

42:47

only problem was is that

42:49

I spent three days and I only reached

42:51

eight people. So I decided to scale the program

42:53

and started doing with 50 people. And

42:55

I ended up doing it to over 4,000 people

42:57

at Yum! Brands. And the last one I

42:59

did was in China with 100 leaders in China.

43:02

And it was so powerful.

43:06

And people say, gee, David, how could

43:08

you spend so much time teaching leadership

43:10

and focusing on that? I said, it's

43:12

the most efficient thing I do. I

43:14

get to know all of our people. This is

43:16

a people business. You got to get your people

43:18

capability right. If you're ever going to satisfy customers

43:21

and make money, I get to understand

43:23

what the biggest projects are that people are working

43:25

on. I get to help them develop a plan

43:27

on how to make it happen by taking people

43:29

with you. I couldn't spend my

43:31

time more efficiently. One of

43:33

the things that you emphasize in this training

43:35

program in the book was the idea that

43:38

a leader has to know how to motivate

43:40

and build teams. You've talked about recognition

43:42

as a key part of that,

43:44

recognizing good work. But

43:46

how did you help leaders figure out

43:49

how to do that? Well,

43:52

the first thing I talked about was getting

43:54

your mindset right. You have

43:56

to be an avid learner. You Have

43:58

to believe that things can get done. Gets.

44:00

Reminds her right. But the big premise

44:03

that that I had in terms of

44:05

taking people with you is you have

44:07

to apply a marketing approach. To.

44:09

Taking people with you us understand your

44:12

people just like you would want to

44:14

understand your customers. So I always ask

44:16

the question what perceptions, habits and beliefs

44:19

do need to build, change or reinforce

44:21

to grow the business. So asset same

44:23

question in terms of what perceptions have

44:26

us believe city to change bill or

44:28

in forced to take people with you

44:30

and Islam help you understand what the

44:33

barriers are, what the challenges are. So

44:35

that's when you're developing an initiative. You

44:37

can attack those barriers head on. The.

44:39

Other thing that I really believe. And.

44:42

It's a law. Leadership is no

44:44

involvement, no commitment. If

44:47

you don't get people involved. And

44:49

ask him what they say they won't be

44:51

committee had an ownership they have to have

44:53

that ownership. And

44:56

will ask you about. Your.

44:59

New your newest book because you you

45:01

will Leadership Institute and you've got your

45:03

own Leadership Podcast and and you've written

45:05

other books around this topic of leadership

45:07

and with a focus on the idea

45:09

of almost like serving the people that

45:11

you work for. In other words, what

45:14

I took from from your book so

45:16

far is that I don't think you

45:18

saw yourself as the boss of all

45:20

of these people, but rather that they

45:22

were your boss in a sense. I

45:26

really believe that when you're the leader,

45:28

it's a privilege. I was talk about

45:31

the privilege of leadership. You ultimately have

45:33

to make the final decision, but. There's.

45:36

A real difference between a weird

45:38

that constantly says i versus leader

45:40

who says we. And.

45:43

I really believe in the we part

45:45

of the equation and what I try

45:47

to really show people how to do

45:49

is to go for me to week.

45:52

And. In of that's the key

45:54

to leadership. That's how you get

45:56

people fired up. That's how our

45:58

people are motivated and and they

46:00

want to be all they can

46:02

be. And part of this is

46:04

taking a actually the interest in

46:07

other people's development. It's

46:09

one thing to have your own success,

46:11

but I think the most successful people

46:13

help other people succeed. And I'm passionate

46:16

about this because our world is in

46:18

dire need of better leadership. Young, eighty

46:20

percent of people aren't against when they

46:23

go to work. He's.

46:26

Seen all the numbers about people who

46:28

are who would like to change their

46:30

job and go to a different job

46:32

and you're not happy. I think this

46:34

is just an absolute problem of leadership.

46:40

Suit, let's dive into the city itself coaching. And

46:42

because I think that the the book comes from

46:45

the side the earth, the premises at in so

46:47

many people know so much research, runners are not

46:49

happy at work and one of the things that

46:51

you begin with in the book is. Is

46:54

the idea that we all need to

46:57

ask ourselves questions to begin this? This

46:59

process of self coaching that we need

47:01

to ask ourselves. For example, what is

47:03

getting in the way of my joy

47:05

should walk me through how you begin

47:07

to become your own coach. Well,

47:10

I think it's so important to begin

47:12

to become your own coach because your

47:14

life and curse too important to delegated

47:17

to somebody else. And if you look

47:19

at what's going on today with everybody

47:21

work and virtually there's less coaching going

47:23

on than ever before. So you gotta

47:25

take ownership on this and you can't

47:28

delegated. So the thing is critical. Is

47:30

you have to bill self awareness?

47:34

And one way to do that

47:36

it is to really understand. What's

47:39

your joy? Blockers are what your joy

47:41

builders are. Okay We have all kinds

47:44

exercises in this book. One of the

47:46

things we as people do is to

47:48

write down. The. Joy Blockers in their

47:50

life? What happens in their worst day? What

47:52

are the thing said? You do or people

47:54

do to you that absolutely sap you and

47:57

take your joy away. And

47:59

then. Write. Down your Joy

48:01

Builders what are your best days?

48:03

When do you have the most

48:05

fun? Windy sealed, most gratified, what

48:07

are you do and when years

48:09

the happiest I came. And.

48:13

I think that begins to help

48:15

you really have a better understanding

48:17

of who you are and what

48:19

makes you tick. And then. Is

48:22

really important to them say okay

48:24

when I think about my future.

48:26

What's. A single biggest thing that I can

48:28

do. This. Going to give

48:30

me joy. Wouldn't you like to be

48:32

like Warren Buffett where you say you

48:35

tap dance to work every day? Why

48:37

is that? He loves business? He loves

48:39

everything he does Emily's He just said

48:41

tax work every day and as because

48:43

he found his joy. I found my

48:45

joy and in marketing and consumers and

48:47

food. But I think every person nice

48:49

to find that joy. And and if

48:52

you're living a lie for your joys

48:54

being blocked, you know you've got enough

48:56

pain you're gonna chase. You actually do

48:58

some simple things every day. It

49:00

is part of your practice because I think

49:02

reading between the lines you use dollars that

49:05

like everybody, Nina, we all have a tendency

49:07

to be negative to be pessimistic, but there

49:09

are things you do on a day to

49:12

day basis to remind yourself. To.

49:14

Sink in a positive way? What are some of the things

49:16

you do? Hear what?

49:18

You're absolutely right that you know your brain

49:20

will retain a negative saw three times more

49:22

the deposit thought. So

49:25

what I do every morning as

49:27

I wake up and I do

49:29

a gratitude journal. It

49:31

on I write down. You know three

49:34

to ten things that make me grateful.

49:36

In Saw based on this concept that

49:38

I learned from Larry Sin his really

49:40

the father of culture and it's a

49:42

concept called the Mood Elevator you know.

49:44

We. Make our worst decisions When we're

49:46

angry, Ridge prevents full and frustrated.

49:48

We make our best decisions when

49:51

we're in a state of gratitude.

49:53

So each day what I try to do

49:56

is get myself moving up the mood elevator

49:58

so I can get to his clothes. The

50:00

grateful as I can before I embark on

50:02

my my day and at least get above

50:04

the line which is curious and interested. Okay

50:06

and eat Obs but I find that to

50:09

be important. The other thing and I think

50:11

is very important is I think your physical

50:13

well being is important so I make sure

50:15

I work out every day. And.

50:18

Do in the morning So I'm not wondering

50:20

when I'm gonna work out. I get the

50:22

work out out of the way. So you

50:24

know when when I go to work on

50:26

feeling grateful on feeling fit and I'm ready

50:28

to go on? Not you know I'm not

50:30

stumble into the coffee pot. Do

50:33

you do you believe that leadership is a

50:35

servant and friends a trade? Or do you

50:37

think that everyone has the capacity to learn

50:39

how to become a leader? I

50:42

think that. Everyone can lead

50:44

in their specific job. Could.

50:47

Not everybody's gonna be Ceo, but if

50:49

you're an administrative assistant, you can be

50:51

pro active. You can do things before

50:53

people ask you to do it and

50:55

that's what leadership is being. proactive. Taken

50:57

the leads, you know how to do

50:59

your job better than anybody else. Do

51:01

it. Don't wait for somebody to tell

51:03

you what to do. Ah

51:06

in I think that's that's what leadership is

51:08

all about. I believe Lear's can be developed.

51:10

You're not a born leader, he go through

51:12

a lot of hard knocks and live in

51:14

and you know which. The first thing you

51:17

gotta do is you gotta be the really

51:19

good at what you do. You have to

51:21

dig good at what you've chosen to do.

51:23

Be good at doing that job haven't a

51:25

skill that everybody sees you doing well and

51:28

then when you can do that skill extremely

51:30

well, you get to teach other people how

51:32

to do the skill. And that's when you

51:34

take on managerial skills. And then stats when

51:36

you gotta learn how to lead and and take

51:39

people with you and I say that can be

51:41

developed over time. i

51:45

know one thing am i imagine had a

51:47

huge impact on cheating said that he jim

51:49

hansen your life one was the birth of

51:51

your daughter she was she was born ten

51:53

weeks premature and that was concerned that for

51:56

her entire life would be affected by it

51:58

and and the other was your your

52:01

cancer diagnosis, which you beat, and

52:03

today you are healthy and strong.

52:07

But I have to imagine that those two

52:09

experiences really kind of

52:11

help to frame in your mind what

52:14

matters, what's important. I

52:17

think, you know, my wife is

52:19

a type 1 diabetic. So

52:22

she told me when we got married that we would

52:24

never have children. And then after nine years, she came

52:26

to me and said, David, I want to have a

52:29

child. And I said, you told me we couldn't have it.

52:31

I don't want to risk you. And she said, I've been

52:33

to the doctor. They think I can have the baby. So

52:37

she goes through a very

52:39

tough pregnancy, had toxemia, bed

52:42

rest, and then has, Ashley,

52:45

10 weeks premature. I mean, you

52:48

know, when I first met with the

52:50

doctor, he said she could have brain

52:52

problems, lung problems, kidney problems, heart problems.

52:54

It was amazing. She had three IVs

52:56

at her and I

52:59

looked at her and I thought she was the most

53:01

beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life. I

53:03

gave her my finger and she squeezed my finger and

53:05

I told everybody in the room that she was going

53:08

to make it. Okay. I

53:10

was told that kids will stay alive if they know

53:12

you're there. And

53:14

so I did audio tapes in those

53:16

old cassettes, you know, and when I

53:18

wasn't there and I was getting a

53:20

little sleep, I had the neonatal nurses

53:22

play the audio tapes. I found out

53:24

the first color that a baby sees

53:27

is red. So I got her a

53:29

red happy apple that she gives to

53:31

her kids today. Okay. And,

53:33

you know, she made it and we took her

53:35

home in doll clothes after 23 days. But

53:39

my wife, she had diabetes

53:41

retinopathy. She couldn't see. It

53:43

was like looking through wax paper and she's

53:46

had all kinds of struggles as

53:48

a diabetic. And you

53:51

never get a day off as

53:53

a diabetic and you don't have a child

53:55

easily as diabetic and you never get a day off

53:57

in your life. Right now my wife is, you know.

54:00

working through a minor stroke, just

54:03

fell and broke her arm and

54:05

had a seizure. I just got her out of the hospital.

54:08

But man, all of it puts

54:10

things into perspective. And

54:13

then, I guess five years ago,

54:15

I got diagnosed for cancer. And

54:19

it was an amazing story. I

54:21

met with this pizza franchisee who knew I

54:23

was about to retire and he came

54:26

to me and wanted me to take this restaurant

54:28

company public and I told him I didn't want to do

54:30

it. I wanted to get out of the restaurant business and

54:32

focus on leadership. And I said, what have

54:34

you been doing? The last couple

54:37

of years. And he had founded

54:39

Lone Star Steakhouse and Del Frisco's.

54:41

And he said, well, I survived

54:43

stage four breast cancer. And

54:45

I said, what? I didn't know

54:47

men could get breast cancer. He said, yeah,

54:49

I had a double mastectomy. So

54:52

I go home and tell my wife that. And

54:55

she tells me I didn't know that. And I said,

54:57

I know. So as I mentioned

54:59

earlier, I work out every day. So I go, I'm

55:01

working out. I always take my shirt off and I

55:03

work out because my wife doesn't want me to come

55:05

up in a sweaty t-shirt when I sit in the

55:07

kitchen chairs. And then I

55:09

put the shirt back on. But I'm aware of

55:11

my body. And one day

55:13

I feel underneath my left nipple a pea.

55:15

It's almost like a marble. But

55:18

it's a tiny little marble the size of a pea.

55:22

And I go to the doctor and

55:24

I tell the doctor about the story

55:26

with Jamie Coulter how he had the

55:28

breast cancer. And he's laughed. He said,

55:30

you don't have breast cancer, David. That's

55:33

a sebaceous cyst. Don't worry about it. And

55:35

so I did myself a little self coaching.

55:38

I said, I'm going to find out for

55:41

myself. And then I went and had a

55:43

mammogram and an ultrasound. And the nurse told

55:45

me they get back to me in 24

55:47

hours after I did this. And

55:50

I go out the next day and I

55:52

go to my mailbox and guess what? I

55:55

get a letter from Jamie Coulter, the guy

55:57

who had told me about his breast cancer.

56:00

Okay. He congratulates me on my career

56:02

and is wishing you all kinds of

56:04

success. And I come back and

56:06

I tell my wife, Wendy, I say, Wendy,

56:09

I'm a very positive person, you'd know this, but

56:12

I know I have breast cancer. And I found out

56:14

the next day I had breast cancer. Wow. I

56:17

had a stage three a tumor. I

56:19

had an 11 lymph nodes. I

56:22

had to have partial mastectomy

56:24

and I went through radiation

56:26

and chemo, but

56:28

that's probably a pretty good example of self

56:30

coaching and falling in your gut. Okay. But

56:33

it's also an example

56:35

of, you never know what life's going to do you.

56:38

But I think that, that, you know, I

56:40

never ever once thought about dying. I

56:44

always felt like I would live and I

56:46

was going to attack this and do everything

56:48

I could to be successful. I developed my

56:50

action plan and went about doing it. And,

56:53

uh, and maybe I

56:55

was in denial, but you know, if they got

56:57

it worked out. And I think that, that your

56:59

daughter who was born 10 weeks premature now

57:02

runs a business with you, right? Yeah.

57:05

We have a, what we call the lift a

57:07

life foundation and it's, uh,

57:09

she's the executive director, CEO of

57:11

that foundation. We've got the Wendy

57:13

Novak diabetes center. I focus on

57:15

leadership development. And then we also

57:18

focus on, uh, hunger, early childhood

57:20

education and veteran support. So

57:22

Ashley is, you know, really, you know, running

57:24

this like a business, making sure that we

57:26

use the blessings that we have to help

57:28

other people. And I think it

57:30

gives us a tremendous joy to know that

57:32

we can help people. And, uh, you

57:35

know, I've read a lot lately. I'm

57:37

sure you have that the happiest people in the world

57:39

are other directed. And I

57:41

could tell you for sure. You know,

57:43

I'm always happier when I know I'm

57:45

doing things for other people. It's

57:51

been a long journey from moving from trailer

57:53

to trailer, um, 32 times. Well,

57:57

it sure. but

58:00

it has been a journey

58:03

of a lifetime, no pun intended. It's

58:05

just been, to me, I can't believe I

58:08

get to do what I do. And I'm

58:10

focused on my joy

58:12

builders. I'm focused on

58:14

leadership development, I'm focused on my family, and I'm

58:16

focused on my golf game. And

58:19

those are the three things that I really have a lot

58:21

of fun with. And anything that gets in the way of

58:23

that, I basically say no to. And

58:27

it's a lot of fun to be able to be in

58:30

that kind of position. That's

58:37

David Novak, co-founder and former

58:39

CEO of Yum! Brands. By

58:42

the way, next time you're out on

58:44

a hike, look for the little metallic

58:46

plates hammered into the rocks. They're ordinance

58:48

survey plates, the kind of work

58:51

that David Novak's dad used to do. Also,

58:53

if you want to hear more of

58:56

David's advice and his conversations with some

58:58

incredible leaders, check out his

59:00

podcast. It's called How Leaders Lead

59:03

with David Novak, and it's

59:05

available everywhere. Hey,

59:12

thanks for listening to the show this week. The

59:14

music for this episode was composed and performed

59:16

by Drop Electric. I'm Guy

59:18

Roz, and you've been listening to Wisdom From the

59:21

Top, Luminary, the