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Winning is your guide to making

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it in business . Join our award-winning

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host and entrepreneur , Mackenzie Kilshaw

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, and special guests in casual conversations

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that will educate and inspire you

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on your business journey . Winning

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will help you learn the hard lessons the easy

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way , with guidance from celebrated entrepreneurs

0:47

and business leaders . It's fun

0:49

, it's informative , it's winning

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.

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Hello , welcome to Winning . I'm your host , Mackenzie

0:55

Kilshaw , and today's guest is Dre Baldwin

0:57

. Hi , Dre .

0:59

Hey Mackenzie , how are you ?

1:00

I'm really good . How are you ?

1:01

Excellent . Thank you for having me on .

1:03

Yeah , it's really great to have you on . Dre

1:05

is the CEO and founder of Work on your

1:07

Game Inc . He has given four

1:09

TEDx talks on discipline , confidence

1:12

, mental toughness and personal initiative

1:15

. He's also authored 33 books

1:17

. He's appeared in national

1:19

campaigns like Nike , Wendy's , Gatorade

1:21

, Buick , Wilson Sports huge

1:24

, huge campaigns . He has

1:26

published over 8,000 videos and

1:28

his content has been viewed over 100

1:31

million times , which is amazing . Dre

1:33

also has a podcast , Work on your Game . It's a daily

1:35

podcast where he has over 7 million

1:37

downloads . So , Dre , I'm really excited to talk to

1:39

you today and talk a little

1:42

bit more about working on your game . So

1:44

, thanks for being here . Do

1:46

you want to tell the audience a little bit more of

1:48

who you are and

1:52

what is Work on your Game ?

1:54

Sure . So everything you said in the background

1:56

hopefully I can live up to in your introduction

1:58

there . I grew up in the city of Philadelphia , now based

2:00

in Miami , always played sports growing up , got

2:03

into basketball pretty late around

2:05

age 14 , was as late if you're trying to go play in college

2:07

or let alone playing in pros . I only played

2:09

one-year high school ball , walked on to play

2:11

Division III college ball . I had to hustle

2:13

my way into pro basketball , which I was able to

2:15

do , luckily , and at the same

2:18

time started publishing to this brand new platform called YouTube

2:20

, and that's where I started to build the name for myself online

2:23

, and it was mostly just the basketball players

2:25

. But after a few years the players started asking questions

2:27

about my approach because they just saw I was really consistent

2:29

, and this is way before consistently publishing

2:31

online was a thing , and they

2:34

started asking about mindset . So I started talking about

2:36

it and people who were not

2:38

athletes started hearing the videos about

2:40

mindset and saying , Dre , this stuff applies to everybody

2:42

, this doesn't just apply to sports . So that's

2:44

how I knew what my segue would be

2:46

from the sports world to an audience

2:48

of people who were not athletes , and that's

2:50

exactly what I did in 2015 when

2:52

I stopped playing , and that's pretty much what I've

2:54

been doing full time ever since . So my

2:57

company now , as you said , is Work

2:59

On Your Game , and what we do here is we take the tools

3:01

to help athletes reach the top of the sports world and

3:03

we apply those tools to the business world to help professionals

3:06

form at their highest level , do so consistently

3:08

and , of course , make money .

3:10

Yeah , I love that and really , if

3:12

you're looking at it , the sports world and

3:14

the business world are actually quite similar

3:16

, right . It is a lot of hard work , dedication

3:19

, having the right mindset to

3:21

get you really where you want to go , and

3:24

they do correlate a lot , so it's really cool that

3:26

you went from sports to the

3:29

business world also .

3:31

Yes , thank you . Yeah , yeah , there's

3:33

a lot of connections .

3:34

Yeah for sure . So you started out

3:36

with sports . I know , like you said , you didn't

3:38

start till a little bit later , kind

3:41

of an early teenager . Did

3:43

you always want to be a basketball player

3:45

. How did that ? How did that

3:47

start ? What was when you were younger ? What did you

3:49

want to do ? How did it grow from there

3:51

?

3:52

I just wanted to be someone who was known . I want people

3:54

to know who I was , and I think athletics

3:57

was the vehicle . Simply because I was . I

3:59

always had the athletic gene , so I was always

4:02

playing sports . You know a little bit

4:04

of football , a little bit of , you know , touch football , not

4:06

serious football, kickball

4:08

, backyard basketball

4:11

, that kind of stuff . You know running , you know

4:13

jumping over stuff , those kind of things . I knew

4:15

I was athletic . I was at least more athletic

4:17

than most of the kids on my block . But you know

4:19

what , do you know ? You're just in that small space

4:21

and I tried

4:23

a bunch of sports . You know , tried

4:26

football , never really played football , did a little

4:28

bit of baseball wasn't really that good . So

4:30

basketball was the sport . That was just a natural

4:32

progression . Just where I'm from , everybody

4:34

plays basketball . Because you don't need equipment no , it doesn't

4:36

cost anything to play basketball you just show up and you

4:38

have one ball and a bunch of people . You have a game . That's

4:41

how I just naturally gravitated towards

4:43

basketball , because that's what was happening

4:45

in my environment . And luckily I

4:48

was no tall , long arms , I can run and

4:50

I can jump . You know I'm black , so that must

4:52

mean I'm good at basketball . All right . So

4:54

then I just I kept playing and practicing by myself

4:56

. I wasn't good when I first started , but

4:59

I got good because I just kept practicing on my own . Good

5:01

thing about basketball is you can practice by yourself . So

5:03

I just kept practicing on my own at the local

5:05

playground and the afternoons in the summertime

5:08

when it was too hot for everybody else , and

5:10

so I had some space to myself where I could actually practice

5:13

. I had a little sandbox for basketball , I guess

5:15

you can say . And that's how I did

5:17

it . So to answer your question , was

5:19

it my vision to become a basketball player ? Not

5:22

, at first , my vision was just to become known

5:24

somehow . And then , because I was athletic

5:26

, I figured it would be through sports , but I didn't know which

5:29

sport . And then finally , once

5:31

I got to basketball and no , when I

5:33

started off I wasn't good . But as I continued to practice

5:35

and I got better , I started to think , well

5:37

, maybe this could actually happen and luckily

5:40

, in some ways it did . I mean , it's not like

5:42

I can't go to the grocery store by

5:44

myself , I'm not that famous , but I

5:46

did make it as a basketball player .

5:48

Yeah , for sure . Yeah , you

5:50

played pro and you played in eight different countries

5:52

, and overseas too . So you

5:55

, I mean you made it in the eyes of making

5:57

that your career , for a point in time , for sure

6:00

.

6:01

Yes , I did . You're right about that .

6:02

Yeah , so you obviously

6:06

practice is important to you . You've been talking about

6:08

that a lot and how that helped

6:10

you . So when you went

6:12

from your

6:15

professional career , were

6:17

you already , guess

6:20

, working on work on your game , or

6:22

was it just something that you did in theory

6:24

, or how did that business aspect

6:26

come from your

6:28

basketball ?

6:30

Yes , so start putting content

6:32

online in 2005 and this

6:34

was all basketball stuff and then around 2008

6:37

and around 2009 , 2011

6:39

and this two-year

6:42

span , three years conclusive . This

6:44

is inclusive . This is where things

6:46

started to change , because in 2009 , I found myself

6:48

unemployed from basketball . So , in other words , I was a free

6:50

agent . No , the phone wasn't ringing . Yep , and

6:53

I already had an audience of people online

6:55

. I've been blogging as well

6:57

as putting videos on YouTube , so I had an audience

7:00

online and the internet was starting

7:02

to become we were , I guess we were in , I guess , what

7:04

they call web 2.0 , where you could basically

7:06

put yourself out there and publish yourself and blogs

7:08

and your own websites and sell stuff , and all that

7:10

stuff was starting to become a thing . Yeah

7:12

, I had an audience . Phone wasn't

7:14

ringing and I need to figure out what to do , because I wanted a

7:16

way to basically have control over my destiny

7:19

, make money and still have something

7:21

to do with basketball , because if the phone doesn't

7:23

ring again , then I need something to do . So

7:26

I had just finished . Well , years earlier

7:28

I had read Rich Dad , poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki

7:31

, and that was through just a random

7:34

connection . I got in the network marketing which I

7:36

didn't build a business in , but that experience

7:38

opened me up to some new things like personal

7:40

development and books on business . So

7:42

he talked about having assets , how

7:44

assets can put money in your pocket and you

7:47

don't have to be your only asset by just working

7:49

and making money . Because even though being an

7:51

athlete is a job that most people will see as

7:53

a dream job and it is , at

7:55

the same time , it can see , when

7:57

you're an athlete is still job . You only

7:59

get paid when you're working and if you're not working like

8:01

I wasn't at the time You're not making any money . So

8:04

assets , so how do I create

8:06

assets ? So I had kept that idea in the back of my mind

8:08

. So now I just finished reading

8:10

the new version of risk dad , poor dad

8:12

for the digital age . It was called the Four Hour

8:14

Work Week by Tim Ferriss also

8:16

great , yeah , right . So Tim

8:18

was just talking about a lot of similar things

8:21

not in exact same vein , but a lot of similar things

8:23

just using the internet

8:25

for it . So how can you outsource

8:27

and hire somebody in India to work for you ? I

8:30

never thought of that before or how can you

8:32

, again , be more efficient in doing

8:34

your work through using the tools of the internet

8:36

? At the time , which was again 2008 , 2009

8:39

so he had a blog

8:41

a very popular blog at the time , still popular

8:43

where he talked about if you have an audience

8:46

, or even if you don't . Actually , he said if you have an idea

8:48

and you want to create a product and sell it online , here's

8:50

what you do . He had this little , basically

8:52

little process of what you do . I

8:54

followed the process because at this point , I

8:56

needed something . So , as

8:58

they say , necessities and mother of urgency all right , you

9:00

get urgent when you have necessity . So I start

9:03

following his little experiment and I created

9:05

a little training program for basketball

9:07

players , because I already had an audience of ball players . I

9:09

knew that I could help them by showing them how

9:11

to practice . So why don't I make a product out

9:14

of showing people how to practice ? Okay , so

9:16

I created two products four dollars and ninety nine cents

9:18

apiece one for your money or one for shooting

9:20

and I put them on this little one-page

9:22

website on a free hosting platform . I was

9:25

just following Tim's format , his formula

9:27

, and I went to Google

9:29

AdWords and I

9:31

bought five dollars worth of ads

9:33

for like whatever keyword basketball

9:35

training or basketball practicing , something like that

9:37

and Tim said run

9:40

ads and just send the traffic to your

9:42

one-page website and then

9:44

have your product , whatever is called

9:46

, have a little description of the product and then

9:48

put a button that says buy this product for and

9:50

puts your price . So I had that by this

9:52

product for four dollars and ninety nine cents . When people

9:54

click on the button , it takes them to another page

9:56

that says this product is still under

9:59

construction , but if you want it , just

10:01

put your email address in and when it's ready will email

10:03

you . And Tim said if you get people coming

10:05

from Google , again they don't know you . So there's

10:08

not your grandma doing it to be nice . Yeah

10:10

, people coming from Google who put their email

10:12

address in . That means you have a viable product , go

10:15

make it and sell it . So it's a those people there's , those are

10:17

your customers right there . Yeah , and I

10:19

did this and people were putting their email I

10:22

want to give a disclaimer here for those who are listening to this

10:24

in 2024 you can't

10:26

do this with five dollars . Today you probably need

10:28

50 . All right , but back then you go

10:30

, five dollars , you probably need 500 . If it's basketball

10:32

, it's a very competitive keyword . But anyway

10:35

, I did this and people start putting your email addresses

10:37

in and , mind you , I still had an audience online

10:39

. I didn't tell them about this yet because those were my

10:42

warm audience . You had to deal with a cold audience . So

10:44

I made the product , put a video up on

10:46

YouTube , say , hey , I have , this new product is

10:48

over here at this website . People started buying

10:50

it immediately the first day I made sales

10:53

and I remember when I my little

10:55

Blackberry at the time , the little light blinked

10:57

and said congratulations , you made a sale for four

10:59

dollars and 99 cents . When I made that sale

11:01

, Mackenzie , I said to myself I

11:03

could do this for the rest of my life , because

11:05

what I had done was created

11:07

what we all know now as intellectual

11:10

property . At the time I was not familiar

11:12

with that term and it was basically

11:14

taking an idea , packaging

11:16

it up , putting a label

11:19

on it , putting a price on it and exchanging

11:21

it for money . That's what I just did and

11:24

I said I got a million ideas , only

11:26

off one I got a whole bunch of money . So

11:28

if I can pack as these all up and sell them and make

11:30

money from it , then I got a business . I got a business

11:33

opportunity right here in front of me and I

11:35

knew I couldn't play basketball forever and

11:37

even if the phone does ring again eventually , your

11:39

shelf life as an athlete , athletic careers , are very short

11:42

, so luckily , the phone

11:44

did ring again . I kept playing till 2015

11:46

, but , answering your question here

11:48

, I was an entrepreneur officially as of

11:50

that day when I made my first four dollar and 99

11:52

cents sale , because I created my own product , put

11:54

it out , sold it and collected the money , and I

11:57

just made more products , first of all for basketball

11:59

. At this time and again I told you

12:01

this is about a three-year span at this

12:03

time , self-publishing also became ubiquitous . So

12:06

I started writing books , because I've always been a writer

12:08

, always been a blogging . Then I started writing

12:10

books , then I started creating courses . So

12:12

I had those three things going from

12:14

2009 through 2015

12:17

. So when I stopped playing in

12:19

2015 , I already had a runway

12:21

of an audience . I had a framework

12:23

, I had ideas and I had products

12:25

. So I already had these things in place

12:27

when I stopped playing basketball . So it's

12:29

not like I woke up the next day like , okay

12:31

, now , what do I do . I already knew what I was gonna

12:33

do , because I was already doing it .

12:35

Yeah , that's an awesome story and just built from

12:37

there . I mean , now we're almost 10 years later

12:40

and you've got podcasts

12:42

, you've got you know so many things 33

12:44

books . All of this is built on one

12:47

item that you didn't even have completed yet

12:49

and you're already selling it . That's amazing

12:51

.

13:19

Oh , thank you .

13:19

Yeah , when you got that first blink on

13:21

your Blackberry , were you like

13:24

holy crap , like I made it . Or

13:26

were you like like

13:28

I can just imagine the excitement of something

13:30

because you were following

13:32

what the book told you to do . But when

13:34

you get that first kind of customer

13:37

, first sale , must have been really exciting

13:39

.

13:40

Well , I didn't say a holy crap , I made it because it was only

13:42

$4.99 , but

13:47

I was , I

13:49

was I would say I was satisfied

13:51

is the word that I would use because I already knew

13:53

that I had an audience . So this was not . It was not

13:56

a guess as to whether or not I

13:58

could sell the product , because I was already

14:00

posting videos on YouTube for four or five

14:02

years by that point . So I already knew there were

14:04

people who wanted exactly what I was selling . So

14:06

it wasn't a surprise that somebody

14:08

will buy it . It was satisfaction

14:11

in that . Okay , Tim laid out

14:13

this plan , I followed it , I did

14:15

everything he said and there are people who actually

14:18

will buy this and they were buying . So

14:20

I was just satisfied with that . And now the first

14:22

thing I'm thinking is okay , how can I so

14:25

enough of these programs to where , if I don't get

14:27

another phone call to play basketball , it

14:29

doesn't matter . So that's what I was

14:32

thinking about . So I'm gonna make enough

14:34

of these so that I can know , keep my phone

14:36

turned on , know the bills paid , know the rent

14:38

paid , etc . That's what I was thinking like

14:40

do I need to make more of these programs ? And

14:43

answer was probably yes , because once somebody buys one

14:45

, well , now they need something else to buy . I thought

14:47

what's the next program ? So now I started

14:49

thinking about all the stuff that I had made on YouTube

14:51

, all the different things I had taught . I said , alright

14:53

, how many of these programs can I create

14:55

? I got a mass produce these because I need

14:57

to have so many that I could sell the same person 50

15:00

programs . Yeah , that's what I was thinking

15:02

and my mind you , this is

15:04

not . There's no Chat GPT at this point . I had

15:06

to manually do this , all right . So that's

15:09

what I started thinking of how do I do this to where

15:11

I can make a true full

15:13

fledged business out of this ? And

15:15

at that time I didn't even know what auto

15:17

delivery was , which means if somebody

15:19

bought a digital product from me , I had

15:22

to email them manually and include

15:24

attachments of the product . I didn't even know

15:26

was a such thing as auto delivery , so so

15:28

that everyone know how far we've come in

15:30

15 years . So after

15:32

about a week of this emailing , every

15:35

person hit the product . I wrote I

15:37

thought there has to be a faster way to do this and I found

15:39

auto delivery . So we fix that up pretty

15:41

quickly .

15:42

Yeah , well , that's the thing , though , when you're stepping into a

15:44

new business

15:46

really it was a business for you that you're not

15:48

sure that's kind of stuff happens . You probably

15:51

didn't even think about it , and then at first it's oh

15:53

, I'll just email it , no big deal . But then all

15:55

of a sudden , you have so much volume coming

15:57

in that you're just spending your time emailing

15:59

right emailing attachments . So

16:02

definitely , automating that was was

16:04

a great thing for you .

16:06

Yes .

16:08

Your time is better spent not sending emails with attachments

16:10

, that's for sure .

16:11

That's right .

16:12

So let's talk a little bit more about Work On

16:14

Your Game and maybe

16:17

, if you want to speak a little bit first

16:19

on the transition

16:22

of , you

16:25

were very basketball focused . Yes , but

16:27

, then you became business

16:29

focused , so do you want to yeah , just

16:31

talk a little bit about work on your game and , and

16:33

what is it all about ? And

16:36

how did you make that transition to the business

16:38

side of things ?

16:39

Sure . So remember , going back in the

16:41

story was that I got introduced to what

16:44

turned out to be network marketing when I was in

16:46

college and they ? The

16:49

first thing is that in those meetings , the speaker would

16:51

just spend a lot of time just breaking down a lot of people's

16:53

most of the audience is false beliefs

16:56

about how do you make money , what

16:58

are your options when it comes to increasing your income

17:00

, because everybody was there because they wanted to make more money not

17:03

everybody , but most of us and the

17:07

things that he was saying from the stage

17:09

were not being taught to me in my college

17:11

lecture halls , and I have a four-year business degree

17:13

, so why are they not teaching this stuff in schools ? I

17:16

didn't understand it then , but I understand it now , why they weren't

17:18

teaching it . And then

17:21

the other thing was he said if you

17:23

want to build a business , you have to build yourself , so make sure you go

17:25

by the personal development books . And

17:28

those are things that I've never heard before , but they made perfect

17:30

sense . So when I read Kiyosaki

17:32

, that planted the seed in my mind for being an entrepreneur

17:34

, I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur . This was a matter

17:36

of how and what I was gonna do so

17:38

. The thing about the programs that

17:40

I was selling those basketball programs was

17:43

I was not running ads . I didn't know how to run ads

17:45

. I only did the Google ad words thing , based on

17:47

what Tim said , but I didn't keep running ads . I only

17:49

did that for the experiment and the

17:51

only marketing I would do to sell my programs

17:53

was just put more videos on social media . That's

17:56

how I was selling my programs just put a video on social media

17:58

, put a link to the website and people

18:00

are buying them and and then YouTube at some

18:02

point changed their algorithm that to stop people

18:04

like me from using them as a resource

18:07

. Yeah , the thing is , as

18:09

I kept doing things

18:11

business wise and the audience

18:13

that I had could see that I was doing business

18:16

things , even though it was using

18:18

basketball as the vehicle , a lot of

18:20

them started to say , wow , I see , I see you're doing

18:22

your like your business things right and

18:24

I started doing more . I was doing brand deals

18:26

with a lot of big companies at that time based

18:28

on my influence in the basketball

18:31

space . But at the same time , I could see the writing

18:33

on the wall like I wasn't gonna play basketball forever

18:35

and only thing that was making me popular and

18:37

helping those programs sell was that I was putting out Basketball

18:40

videos every day . Well , what happens when I stop putting

18:42

out basketball videos every day ? So I was thinking

18:44

about that already . So that's why , when

18:46

I noticed that there was an audience of people who were

18:48

not basketball players , who liked my stuff

18:51

, I said why don't I find a way to serve

18:53

them as well ? Because I

18:55

also understood that my audience when I first

18:57

started Mackenzie were 13

18:59

to mostly 13 to 21

19:01

year old males and they're trying to play

19:03

basketball , hopefully for a living . And

19:06

one thing you have to understand about that audience is that

19:08

they're trying to play basketball for a living , which means

19:10

they don't have any money , which means not much

19:12

you can sell to them . I don't know if you can sell to

19:15

people who don't have money . So five

19:17

dollars was about the ceiling and not

19:19

the ceiling , but you get my point . I couldn't go

19:21

high ticket selling to these people .

19:23

No , it's like $200 , Right

19:25

yeah right .

19:26

I wasn't thinking high ticket at the time , didn't even

19:28

know what that meant , but I understood that there

19:30

was a limit to this and I would have to sell a bulk

19:33

of products in order to make the kind of money that

19:35

I wanted or needed to make

19:37

. So as people who were not athletes

19:39

started coming into my world , I realized , okay

19:41

, there's a whole other opportunity here . So

19:44

now , this wasn't something that I just magically

19:46

came up with . So about 2014 , I

19:49

knew I wanted to . I was about to get out of basketball play till 2015

19:52

. I went to a Toast Masters meeting

19:54

and in the speech

19:56

that I gave I just said hey , I'm getting out of basketball

19:58

, I want to get into . Next thing I was gonna do

20:00

was professional speaking . The reason why this

20:02

was my idea was because around

20:04

2010 , the players again they were asking

20:06

questions about my mindset . From just watching

20:09

my videos and knowing my background , I

20:11

started doing these videos called the weekly motivation , and

20:14

the weekly motivation was this a little two to five minute

20:16

selfie video where I would just talk about some mindset

20:19

principle , that

20:21

just something that I knew , something that I thought was

20:23

just common sense to most people . I realized

20:25

very quickly that it wasn't common sense . It wasn't the

20:27

common knowledge , and I would

20:30

just talk about things like discipline and confidence and

20:32

mental toughness and personal initiative , and

20:34

I was using basketball kind of as a canvas

20:37

, but it wasn't about basketball . So people

20:39

who didn't play basketball started

20:41

seeing those videos and

20:43

that's when they started reaching out and saying

20:45

, Dre , I don't even play basketball

20:47

, but that stuff you're saying about mindset applies

20:50

to me the way it applies to others . That's

20:52

what told me that there was an audience outside of

20:54

the sports room . So in 2014

20:57

, when I had went to this , toast masters

21:00

said I'm about to get out of basketball . There was another

21:02

guy in the audience who had played in the NFL

21:04

, and it was only about 10 people in the room . So

21:06

this is just complete irony . Yeah , he

21:08

had played in the NFL . I

21:10

knew his name , but I didn't know his face because football players

21:13

wear helmets , so I didn't know what he looked like . But when he

21:15

told me his name , I knew who he was . Yeah , he said

21:17

well , look , I'm about to retire from football and

21:20

I am about to go to this conference

21:22

where all the people do their professional

21:24

speakers and and what it was

21:26

was a National Speakers Association conference . I didn't

21:28

know that at the time . But he said I'm about to

21:30

go to this conference , I want to find out what I need

21:32

to know about the speaking business and anybody I

21:34

meet , I'll just pass their info to you . I said

21:36

, alright , I appreciate it . He meant well

21:39

, he gave me an info of one person and

21:41

she was already a full-time speaker . She

21:43

was author , she was in the thought leadership

21:45

, she was coaching , consulting , basically everything that

21:47

I wanted to do she was already

21:49

doing . And when we

21:51

connected I called her and when we connected

21:53

she said well , look , I

21:56

will help you learn the ins and

21:58

outs of the speaking business if you help me understand

22:00

how to get my name known on the internet

22:02

, because she wasn't very known on the internet but I

22:04

was known on the internet , so I'll help you with this

22:07

if you help me with that . And that's exactly

22:09

what we did . And she taught me to ropes , to the speaking business

22:11

. So she helped me understand that , this whole

22:13

thing that you have , you got something going here . You're

22:15

an athlete , you have this

22:17

, these mindset pieces that you talk about . You've

22:19

already written books , you already have an audience on

22:21

the internet . So you're already . You're

22:24

a person who actually does stuff you implement . So

22:26

I know , if I invest my time into

22:28

you , you're actually going to do what I tell you . Because

22:31

she said listen , a hundred people have come

22:33

to me asking the same thing I want to learn to speak

22:35

in business . Then I tell them what to do . They do nothing . But

22:37

you , I see that you're already doing stuff

22:39

, so I'm betting that you're actually going to do

22:41

something if I tell you what to do . That's the only reason she

22:43

decided to meet with me , and and

22:46

on top of the fact that I could help her with the internet . So , so

22:49

she started telling me stuff and everything

22:51

she told me I did it . So she said that

22:53

you might need to make some cold calls and try to get yourself

22:55

some some speaking gigs . Speak for free . You

22:58

need to get some proof that you can actually stand on the stage

23:00

and speak . And I made cold calls and

23:02

I did it , and I got on stages and I spoke , and

23:05

this is how I started to get myself out there and this

23:07

is how I landed Ted Talks same thing had to

23:09

just go out there and just pitch myself , and she helped

23:11

me understand that you need a framework . Okay , so

23:13

the stuff you're talking about is good , but you got to organize it

23:15

. You have to organize it in a way that

23:17

when you call somebody and say , hey , I'm

23:19

, I'm , I want to speak at your conference , they're

23:22

gonna say , well , what do you speak about ? You need to answer and

23:24

needs to be concise and it needs to make sense . How

23:27

does your experience as an athlete help them ? And

23:29

they are a sales

23:31

company . What do you , what do you had to do with

23:33

that ? And she helped me understand that

23:35

there's a way to organize that . The framework that

23:37

became work on your game , so framework

23:40

that I had to this day , came from that

23:42

conversation , those conversations , and that's

23:44

how I started to realize oh

23:46

, I can transition here . And

23:48

also when it came to the speaking , the reason was for

23:50

the speaking was the last part , I'll give it

23:52

to his answer . Mackenzie was when

23:55

I started doing the mindset videos , the weekly motivation

23:57

, the athletes

23:59

who were watching me and the non athletes will

24:01

leave comments on the video and say , Dre , you

24:04

sound like a philosopher , you sound like

24:06

a college professor , you should be a professional speaker

24:08

, the way you speak , the way you explain things , because

24:10

I just had this ability to articulate . You

24:13

know , I've always had that ability , just communication

24:15

skill . So that's what planted the seed

24:17

in my mind okay , if I don't play basketball , what

24:19

can I do ? I can be a professional speaker . And then

24:22

when I met this woman , she

24:24

was a professional speaker and she was

24:26

no charging people 10 , 15 , 20 thousand

24:28

dollars for a speech . I said , okay , well , if I can make

24:30

that kind of money now I'll be a professional

24:33

speaker . So that's what got me off the

24:35

four dollar 99 cent programs

24:37

and on to let me see if I can get into the speaking business

24:39

that's a really cool story .

24:41

I think , too , it shows a lot about , I

24:43

mean , you . You diversified

24:46

so much like that . It's

24:48

a natural progression , but you also

24:50

had to take the steps to get there and

24:53

that also I really like the also

24:56

the power of networking there , because you

24:58

were literally at a Toastmasters

25:01

, I think yes , you meet this guy

25:03

, you connect with him , he connects you to someone

25:05

, but you do the work and that's that's

25:08

the glory of having a network

25:10

of people , that someone

25:12

can help you and you helped her right . So that

25:14

was such a I mean totally changed

25:17

where you were going , but I think in all the

25:19

good ways .

25:20

Absolutely and in your 100%

25:22

correct , and that the fourth piece of my

25:24

the working your game framework , as originally created

25:27

, was personal initiative , which is

25:29

going and making things happen . You

25:31

can't sit around just wait for the opportunity . You have to go

25:33

do stuff . So I just went and did

25:35

stuff so many different times that Sometimes

25:38

that's who's serendipitous outcomes that

25:41

. I could not have planned . I couldn't plan there'd be a

25:43

. I'm at a meeting with 10 people and an NFL

25:45

player happens to be there and he happens to be retiring

25:47

and he happens to want to be a professional speaker . How

25:49

does that happen ? Yeah , that's , that's

25:51

just blind look , but because I showed

25:53

up , it occurs .

25:55

That's right , yep , you showed up and you took

25:58

, you started talking to that the NFL player

26:00

and you start right and you're like , hey , if

26:02

you go there you share great it's , it's

26:05

that whole dynamic

26:07

of being present and you

26:09

could have went to that meeting and not talk to anyone and went

26:11

home and None of this might

26:13

have happened right .

26:15

Exactly . But that's the reason why I went to the meeting , because

26:17

someone told me that at Toastmasters you can learn

26:19

how to be a professional speaker . They were actually wrong

26:21

. That's not what they do at Toastmasters . No

26:23

, because I was there and I announced

26:25

that I wanted to be a professional speaker . Someone

26:28

heard that and they said well , hey , guess what , I

26:30

know something .

26:31

Yeah , that's awesome . Do you still

26:33

use basketball a lot in what

26:35

you talk about ?

26:37

I use sports as a, sometimes

26:39

I use sports as a frame of reference , but

26:41

one of the things , Mackenzie

26:43

, is my superpower is my

26:46

ability to break things down and put them

26:48

back together . It's the way I say it , and

26:50

what I mean by that is , even

26:52

if you have never picked up a basketball in your life

26:54

, I can use a basketball

26:57

example or a basketball

26:59

metaphor with an audience of people

27:01

who never played ball and I can explain

27:03

it in a way that you'll understand it and understand

27:06

why it connects to what I'm saying , even if you know nothing

27:08

about basketball . That's my superpower

27:10

.

27:11

Yeah , definitely a talent . Well , and , as you

27:13

said , you've always enjoyed writing . Clearly

27:15

you've got great communication skills . I think it all

27:17

goes hand in hand . Plus , I'm

27:20

assuming you love basketball still and you're not playing

27:22

anymore , but let's you still talk

27:24

about a sport that you love and use that

27:26

as an easy way for people to understand something

27:28

.

27:29

Yes , I can use it as a frame of

27:31

reference , but I don't need to . So I just want

27:33

to be clear . I don't need to use basketball . I can

27:35

. We have to have this whole conversation ? I had

27:37

to talk about basketball at all . I can still give

27:39

value . So the material that I put out a lot

27:42

of times I'm not bringing

27:44

up sports at all and again , if I do

27:46

bring up sports , you don't need to be a sports

27:48

player or even a sports fan to

27:50

understand why I'm using it . But

27:52

the bottom line is never about sports , because I don't play sports

27:54

and , yeah , a business person , I'm an entrepreneur

27:57

.

27:57

Yeah , for sure . It's just an easier way to get your

27:59

message across . I guess when you use it

28:02

some , when you talk about something that's

28:04

relatable for people right

28:07

, it helps depending on who you're talking to .

28:09

Now , what you're talking about , who's never played sports ? Now

28:11

it might be harder because they don't get it . They

28:13

don't know why your brain that up . So if

28:15

I'm using the right reference , it depends

28:18

on the reference , what I'm talking about , who I'm talking

28:20

to .

28:21

Okay , I guess this is a great point . Then , really

28:24

, depending who you're talking to , you're gonna change your

28:26

message to make sure that it's appropriate

28:28

for them .

28:28

Mm-hmm .

28:29

Awesome . Okay , let's

28:32

talk a little bit about discipline and

28:34

two kind of points

28:37

here . Why is discipline

28:39

such an important aspect of success

28:41

? And also how does

28:43

discipline create confidence ?

28:45

Well , disciplines an important aspect of success

28:48

, because it's all about showing up and

28:50

doing your job on a consistent basis . And if

28:52

anyone asked me , Dre, what's the number one asset

28:54

that you've used to get from where you were to where

28:56

you are , an answer is discipline . Always , that

28:59

is . The most important assets for me personally

29:01

, is discipline . One reason is because

29:03

, as you show up consistently and do your

29:06

job , it helps build confidence , and most

29:08

people want confidence . Most

29:10

people need discipline , but they want confidence

29:12

. And also , because so

29:14

few people have discipline , it

29:17

actually allows you to stand out by the law

29:19

of contrast . Because so few , so

29:21

few people have discipline . When you have it

29:23

, you stand up from the crowd . Because most people

29:25

don't show up consistently , most people don't

29:28

follow through , most people are not consistent . So

29:30

, when it comes to why

29:32

discipline matters so much , and what was the other half of the question

29:34

, just how does

29:37

discipline create confidence ?

29:38

I think you just kind of said it .

29:40

Yeah . So this is when this one creates confidence

29:42

. In that, confidence is defined as your belief in

29:44

your ability to do something , and that belief

29:47

comes from the fact that you've actually done it . So confidence

29:49

about looking into your past . And

29:51

you look into your past and you see that you've

29:53

done this thing over and over and over again , that you have afforded

29:56

your right to be confident . You forward yourself the right

29:58

to be confident at it because you've done it so

30:00

many times . So that's how discipline

30:02

creates confidence . And , again

30:04

, as I said , most people want confidence

30:07

, but they need discipline . So a lot of times

30:09

people shy away from the things that they need , but they

30:11

go running towards things that they want . The problem

30:13

is , people go looking for the

30:15

confidence they want but they don't have it because

30:18

they haven't laid the ground right , they haven't paid the

30:20

price right . You didn't . You didn't pay for your

30:22

membership . You can't use the gym , all right

30:24

. So there's a metaphor for you right there . So

30:26

you have to actually do

30:28

the work , because confidence is literally a membership

30:30

. It's a membership in that

30:32

once you become confident , you don't just

30:35

stay confident . You have to keep doing the things

30:37

that led to you being confident . And if you stop

30:39

doing them , then you lose your confidence and that ability

30:41

. It's like if you stop , how often do you

30:43

record episodes for the show ?

30:45

Oh , once or twice a week .

30:47

Once or twice a week . So if you went three months and

30:49

didn't record anything and then you try to recording it

30:51

, you probably a little sloppy when

30:54

you came back right because you stop paying

30:56

the price . You lost the skill

30:58

so it works with . That's how it applies anything

31:01

. That's the concept of atrophy . You don't use

31:03

something , you lose it . The ability goes away

31:05

if you're not using it . So the discipline of you

31:07

recording once or twice a week makes you

31:09

sharper and use get better time at

31:11

the time , at the time , the more you do it and

31:13

you become more confident in doing the thing because

31:15

you're doing it so often . But if you stop doing it

31:17

, then the confidence goes away because you are doing the work . Now

31:20

the challenge is you know in your

31:22

mind what it looks like to be able to do it

31:24

because you've done it so many times . Let's say you go away

31:26

for six months and you know what it looks like

31:28

to be able to do it because you've been there . But you

31:31

can't do it right now because you have not been paying

31:33

the price . So you have to have the discipline

31:35

to work yourself back up

31:37

to that skill level that you were at before to get

31:39

sharp again . But you got to pay the price . You got to start

31:41

back at ground zero where you were . You can get there

31:43

faster because you know the path . Then

31:45

you did the first time , but you still have to pay

31:47

your dues the same way than anybody else

31:49

would I .

31:50

Love that and I think discipline is something that

31:53

, honestly , we don't really talk about enough

31:55

. But I could not agree with you more . It's

31:58

so necessary and putting

32:00

in the time . It doesn't matter what your

32:02

business is . You have to put in the time right

32:04

, because if you don't , you can hope

32:07

and wish that that comes , gonna be what it is , but

32:09

without the actual work you're never gonna get there

32:11

.

32:12

That's right . You got to put in the work in anything

32:14

and as much as know

32:17

as an entrepreneur . I talk

32:19

to people all the time about don't fall into the trap

32:21

of you know what they call hustle

32:23

culture or a family , that you have to

32:27

go to bed late and

32:29

you got to wake up early and team no

32:31

sleep and all these things that people say about just

32:33

hustle , hustle , hustle . Don't fall into

32:36

that trap . At the same time

32:38

, hard work still matters . You

32:40

still had to do the hard work . There's no shortcuts

32:43

of hard work . Anything you want to be successful

32:45

at , you have to work hard . The challenge is what

32:47

are you working hard on ? That's the real challenge

32:49

. Is not that there's a way to

32:51

shortcut the

32:54

, the mandate

32:56

for actually putting in hard work and effort and

32:58

anything you want to be successful .

33:00

Yep , I love that advice and it goes to everything

33:03

business , but I mean it goes to if

33:05

you want to be a doctor , you have to go to the seven

33:07

years of medical school or whatever . To be a doctor you

33:10

want to be right . All of these , it doesn't

33:12

matter if you're an entrepreneur or small business owner

33:14

or another profession . Putting

33:16

in the work is going to get you there and that's the only way

33:18

. I love how you said there's no shortcut to hard work

33:21

, because that's such a such a great

33:23

way to phrase it

33:25

so simply , but it's very true that's

33:27

right mental toughness

33:30

, too , is something you talk a lot about , and

33:32

this might go back to

33:34

discipline , but do you want to just touch a little bit more on mental

33:37

toughness and why it's necessary in your

33:40

business ?

33:41

Sure business life the way we describe mental

33:43

toughness is your willingness to remain disciplined

33:45

and confident , despite the fact that being

33:47

disciplined and confident up to this point has yet to produce

33:49

a desired result . So

33:52

, no matter how hard you work , how clear

33:54

and clean your plans are , how talented

33:57

you are , how much you believe in yourself , inevitably

33:59

something's not going to go the way you want it to go . Never

34:02

be . Something's just not going to work in

34:04

life . Somebody else may disappoint you

34:06

. You plan to picnic and is raining outside

34:08

now . You did all the hard work and things

34:11

just don't go the way that you expected . This is

34:13

inevitable . It happens to everyone . Knowing is immune

34:15

to this mental toughness is your willingness

34:17

to stick to the plan , stay persistent

34:20

and stay disciplined and remain

34:22

confident that your effort will

34:25

pay off , even though it has yet to pay

34:27

off . And the reason why

34:29

mental toughness matters so much , Mackenzie , is because

34:31

it becomes the great differentiator between

34:33

the people who succeed and the people who fail . And that

34:36

many people quit when they haven't gotten

34:38

the result that they expected , especially if they

34:40

feel like other people know about it , because people

34:42

are so afraid of ridicule

34:45

and criticism that they

34:47

would rather not try

34:49

, then try and come up short or

34:51

especially if they've already tried and came up short once

34:53

, they don't want to let that happen again . So they rather do nothing

34:56

, they rather just quit . And mental

34:58

toughness is your competitive

35:01

advantage . When you are willing to

35:03

remain consistent , you're willing to stick to it , you're

35:05

willing to have the grit and the

35:07

toughness and want to grind it out , getting

35:09

through the situations that are less

35:12

than ideal , so that you can achieve

35:14

your desired outcome even though

35:16

you're not getting out , even though things

35:18

are not going the way you want them to go .

35:20

Okay , the last thing I really want to talk about and you kind

35:22

of talked about it a little bit already but

35:24

personal initiative and

35:27

why that's so important . But I think for

35:29

you , like you said before , when

35:33

you started with work in your game , you you

35:35

kind of just went for it .

35:37

That's right . Yeah , personal

35:39

initiative . And first place I

35:41

heard this was in the Pomeo Hill and his book

35:44

thinking girl rich and for the law of success

35:46

, where that book came from . And he

35:49

says that if you're going to be successful

35:51

or I'll say that I say this because

35:53

I basically took his concept and spread

35:55

it into my own words is you

35:57

can't sit around and wait for an opportunity to find you

35:59

. You have to go , create an opportunity . You have to go

36:02

and do something so that

36:04

when I think about my own story , how

36:06

many times I had to take initiative I had taken

36:08

this to just go practice basketball and then take

36:10

initiative to try out

36:12

for the team when I got cut the first three times

36:14

. And initiative to go walk on to play in college

36:16

, and this took to try to play pro when no one was asking

36:19

me to play pro . I get on the internet when

36:21

it wasn't even a thing to be . Publishing

36:23

content on the internet by creating a product

36:26

, offering it to the world , doing

36:28

Tim's little experiment to test out and see

36:30

if this works , to actually sell your $4.99

36:33

training program . Talking about mindset

36:36

in videos because a lot of people are asking about

36:38

it , realizing that people who didn't play sports wanted

36:40

it , and not pigeonholing myself in just

36:42

the sports world . I'm going to that toast master's

36:44

meeting following what my mentor

36:47

was telling me to do , all of these things so

36:49

many times that I had to take initiative in order

36:51

to be where we are here

36:53

today . I mean , I don't know if you

36:55

told your audiences , but how this conversation

36:57

even happened . All right , there was , there

37:00

was an initiative taken right . So we , we are always

37:04

looking to initiate . Initiative

37:07

comes from the word initiate . Initiate

37:09

comes on word initial , initial means first . You

37:11

go , first you have to move first

37:13

. You can't sit around and wait for someone to

37:15

offer you the opportunity . Is great when

37:18

it happens , but is even better

37:20

when you go create it , because now you know you can

37:22

create another one . That gives you confidence . All

37:24

right . So all of these work together the discipline

37:27

of looking for opportunities

37:29

and trying to initiate them when they

37:31

start working . It gives you more confidence that

37:33

the next one can work and the next one , and the next one

37:35

. And also you need to have the mental toughness to understand

37:37

that if you reach out and something doesn't work

37:39

, that's okay , keep trying . Next

37:41

one , make the next call . Someone doesn't buy

37:44

at your last sales presentation , I'm gonna

37:46

make the next presentation . All right . When

37:48

I play professional sports , people

37:50

don't understand how many teams that we

37:52

reached out to that didn't respond

37:54

or said no , you only need one

37:56

. You're gonna pay for one thing at a time

37:58

, right ? So it's not like everybody's

38:01

gonna say yes to you , even my

38:03

programs not everybody who saw the programs

38:05

, both them but we sold enough in them , right

38:08

? So it's not about everybody

38:10

saying yes , is about you being willing to take the initiative

38:12

and because so few people are willing to

38:14

take an initiative , again it becomes a

38:16

competitive advantage . So all of these pieces

38:18

that we talked about discipline , confidence , missile

38:20

, toughens , personal initiative they're all competitive

38:23

advantages when you know how to

38:25

create them and

38:27

you have them on a consistent basis . Because so

38:29

few people have them consistently , people

38:31

can have them every now and then . So few people

38:33

have them consistently that if you can be consistent

38:35

in these is separate you from everybody else .

38:38

I love that and I did not share how

38:41

you became a guest . But I'm going to now because I'll

38:44

be honest with you and I didn't tell you this before I

38:46

was blown away . I reach out to lots of people

38:48

, lots people reach out to me and

38:51

of course I always look to see , because

38:53

usually you just get a name , maybe

38:55

a bio attached or check out the website

38:57

. But you actually sent me a video and

39:00

it was talking about yourself

39:04

, in a good way , but why

39:06

you would be a good guest and why my

39:08

audience would like to hear this information , and

39:11

it was fantastic like I was blown

39:13

away by it . So that was the

39:15

best ever guest

39:18

experience that I've had to get a

39:20

guest on . And but

39:22

you did that right . I didn't

39:24

reach out to you . You reach out to me with that video

39:26

and I watched it . I was like , yeah

39:28

, he's gotta be on . So thank you for that

39:31

. That's just just shows what personal

39:33

press excuse me , personal initiative

39:35

does . It works , so keep

39:38

it up for sure . I'm glad it worked yeah

39:40

, I'm glad to work to do . You have

39:42

a most important lesson that you can share with

39:44

the audience .

39:46

Yes , we're in a performance

39:49

and results based business . I

39:52

tell people that all the time and it applies

39:54

in the sports world you absolutely have to perform

39:56

and the result is on a scoreboard

39:59

. You win or you lose , and you lose too often

40:01

, you'll be out of a job and in

40:03

the business world is the same thing . You have to perform in

40:05

your business and the result is you

40:08

get to choose the result . But you can

40:10

count your cash , you can count leads

40:12

, you can count conversion rate , you can count how

40:14

many people are watching your show , whatever it is

40:16

. But there needs to be a clearly defined

40:18

result that you're after and everyone

40:20

is no that and the performance is based on

40:23

producing that result . And if you're not producing

40:25

the result for too long , you may end

40:27

up out of a business or you will lose

40:29

a lot of business . So we're on

40:31

a performance and results based business . You need

40:33

to know everyone listening what

40:35

is the result that you're after and what type

40:37

of performance is required in order for that result

40:39

to be achieved on a consistent basis . People

40:42

don't know that you do a whole lot of work is still not

40:44

get to your goal , so make sure that's

40:46

clearly defined .

40:48

What is there anything you wish you had known

40:50

, or maybe wish you could have told yourself

40:52

in 2014

40:55

, when you're working on this ?

40:57

Yes , man , so many things . So , going

41:00

back to when I put my first book

41:02

out , which I knew about building an email list , because

41:04

I didn't have a list when I first started , when I put my

41:06

first book , I probably missed out on fifty thousand

41:08

email addresses that I could have had on my list had I

41:10

known about this building that's one

41:12

. Number two I wish I had known about just going

41:15

high ticket in terms of selling whatever

41:17

it is , and I'm selling because it takes the same amount of effort

41:19

to sell something for twenty

41:21

grand that it takes to sell it for two hundred

41:24

dollars . Say , my effort may not be

41:26

to the same person , but it takes a month effort . So

41:28

I wish I had known that a lot earlier . So I'll

41:30

just give you those two .

41:32

Those are perfect . Thank you so much . I'm

41:34

people I know are gonna want to know more about

41:37

you . Where can they find you ? Where's the best place

41:39

for them to go to learn more ?

41:41

Sure , you can go to all course . You can find me on

41:43

all the social media platforms , on every single

41:45

one , usually the name there is just Dre

41:47

Baldwin or Work On Your Game, different

41:50

ones with different platforms , but I'm easy to find everything's

41:52

public . I do have a book

41:54

that I give off free to people . Can

41:56

I share that ?

41:57

Yeah , of course yes .

41:59

My book, The Third Day , what's ahead right here for

42:01

those watching on video . This book

42:03

is all about how you show up and give your best effort when

42:05

you feel like . That's what discipline is about . So

42:08

this is one of the main framework

42:10

. So you explain discipline . So that

42:13

day when you realize that the thing

42:15

you signed up for is not one big party

42:17

, the novelty is worn off , the newness is worn off

42:20

, but you still have to show up and do your job and is all on

42:22

you . That is called the third day , and

42:24

this book is about the decision that you make on

42:26

that day is not about that day happening , because happens

42:28

. Everybody is about the decision that you make and

42:30

your decision is unique and unique

42:33

to you . So the decision you make determines

42:35

whether you're gonna be a pro or an amateur . And

42:37

a professional person does something is a

42:39

main paid occupation . Only way you can get paid

42:41

consistently is you have to show up consistently , even

42:44

when you don't feel like it . That's what this book is about

42:46

. Is about structuring and systematizing

42:48

showing up even when you don't feel

42:50

like showing up . www . t Third day book

42:52

. com . The book is free . You

42:54

cover the shipping .

42:58

I love that . I think I'll be going on to that site

43:00

shortly after record this drink

43:02

. Thank you so much . I really appreciate it

43:05

. You're a great guest and

43:07

everybody listening will see you on the next

43:09

episode . Thanks for listening

43:11

to Winning . Be sure to subscribe to

43:13

get all of our new episodes . If you

43:15

enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help

43:17

support the podcast , please share it with

43:19

others , post about on social media

43:21

and leave a rating and review

43:23

wherever you listen to it . To

43:26

catch all of the latest from us , you can

43:28

follow Winning Podcast on Instagram

43:30

@winning_ podcast

43:33

, Facebook @Winning

43:35

Podcast and on Twitter @winning

43:37

pod . Winning was created and

43:39

is produced by me , Mackenzie Kilshaw

43:41

music , created by Summer Firby,

43:43

editing by Seth Armstrong . Special

43:46

thanks to Shauna Foster for voicing

43:48

our opening and , of course , a huge

43:51

thank you to this episode's guest . Thanks

43:54

again for listening and I'll see you on the

43:56

next episode .