0:28

Winning is your guide to making

0:30

it in business . Join our award-winning

0:32

host and entrepreneur , Mackenzie Kilshaw

0:35

, and special guests in casual conversations

0:38

that will educate and inspire you

0:40

on your business journey . Winning

0:42

will help you learn the hard lessons the easy

0:44

way , with guidance from celebrated entrepreneurs

0:47

and business leaders . It's fun

0:49

, it's informative , it's winning

0:51

.

0:52

Hello , welcome to Winning . I am your host , Mackenzie

0:55

Kilshaw , and today's guest

0:57

is AJ E . How are you ?

0:59

Fantastic , I'm excited to be here with you .

1:01

I'm really excited to be here too . So

1:03

AJ lives in Texas . We just had a little

1:05

chat about how much I love Texas . He

1:08

is a best-selling author and one of the top

1:10

coaches in the world which we're going to talk about

1:13

, and he's also the brand manager at Social

1:15

Glow . So welcome , I'm

1:17

really excited to have you on . We're going to

1:19

talk a lot today about your inner critic

1:22

, which I feel like everybody has

1:24

that , and we're going

1:26

to really dive into it . So it's

1:28

going to be fun .

1:29

So A .

1:31

So you want to start with this inner critic journey

1:33

. Yeah , well , first of all

1:35

, let's start . Why don't you give our listeners a little

1:37

bit more information about who you are

1:40

? I'm really excited

1:42

for you to talk about being one of the

1:44

top coaches in the world , and

1:46

I know you've got some athletes there . But let's

1:48

just start . Give the audience an idea of who you are

1:50

and then we'll get into it . Yeah

1:54

.

1:54

So this was actually a really hard question for

1:57

me to answer these days . Like the

2:00

simple answer is like I'm just a redneck

2:02

East Texan farm boy who's

2:04

had this crazy career I'm only 38

2:06

, but I've done professional musicianship

2:08

where I was in a band and we had record offers

2:11

and I transitioned into social media marketing

2:13

and then taught a creative live and

2:15

was like a Twitter marketing

2:17

expert and then I transitioned into

2:19

having my own social media marketing agency

2:21

and then transitioned into coaching and then writing

2:24

books and then leading events on two different

2:26

continents and it's just kind of been this ever

2:28

evolving journey of being a human

2:31

. And so on one side this is exactly

2:33

like you said like I guess I'm a best selling author

2:35

and I'm one of the top coaches in the world according

2:38

to HubSpot I decided I

2:40

wanted to really consult and sit

2:42

. I guess a brand manager I guess is what I'd be

2:44

called for social global , because I believe in the software

2:47

and what we're doing and what we're creating . I'm

2:49

also a husband and a father . I

2:51

have a daughter that's four and

2:54

I also realized , like I'm none of those things

2:56

either . Right , like I'm just

2:59

, I'm just an ordinary

3:01

human . I'm nothing special and at

3:03

the same time . Of course I'm special , just like

3:05

you and everybody else that's listening , and so it's just

3:07

an interesting dichotomy to

3:09

be like well , who am I ? And yeah , I

3:11

don't , I don't , I don't know , really , you know

3:13

.

3:14

Yeah , you know what I love

3:16

that you say that ? Because I have interviewed a

3:18

lot of people and done the podcast of course , met

3:20

a lot of people who have

3:22

all of these awards

3:24

and accolades and whatnot . Every

3:27

person still says I'm just

3:29

like me , I'm just a girl

3:31

from Saskatchewan , or you're just a guy

3:33

from Texas , like , at the end of the

3:36

day , we just are who we are

3:38

, but we can still be really proud

3:40

of these accomplishments , right ?

3:42

Totally . And

3:44

I'm kind of sitting in this place where for so

3:46

much of my life I guess

3:48

I've been a high achiever for sure , like

3:50

you name it I have set out to accomplish it

3:52

and I've always accomplished

3:55

what I've set out to do . But it was always

3:57

like to feel an

3:59

internal void , like I want to be

4:02

recognized , I want to be seen . And then

4:04

that led to this performance based identity and

4:06

the past several years and I guess it's been all

4:09

of this time really , but definitely the past two years

4:11

very deeply like unraveling

4:13

that whole performance based identity

4:15

to where now I can still go , achieve

4:18

things and create things , but I'm

4:20

not necessarily attached to the

4:22

outcome and even I'm not

4:24

there yet , but I feel like I'm close to getting

4:26

there , to even being attached to the timing of

4:28

it . You know , like I can vision cast

4:30

and I can , I can set like I think I'd

4:32

like to get there by this time , but I'm not

4:34

like attached to it . And this is kind

4:36

of falling back into life and and

4:39

this seeing like where is life actually going

4:41

to support me in going ? And I think it's

4:43

going to be over there , but it may not be and

4:45

I may end up over here , and that's okay

4:47

too , so it's a very weird dichotomy

4:50

.

4:51

What changed for you

4:53

to get like

4:55

you said in the last two years ? Was it when COVID

4:57

happened ? Was it just something in

4:59

yourself , or what changed that

5:02

you weren't so attached

5:04

?

5:06

So great question . The short

5:08

answer is my wife has diagnosed with cancer

5:10

two years ago and so COVID . For

5:12

me , Covid was easy , so it's like , yeah , whatever , like

5:16

we won't go into all of that , but it

5:18

is what it is . And then . But then when my wife's cancer

5:20

surfaced , it surfaced a lot

5:23

in me , surfaced a lot in her too , and

5:25

I didn't know . But like 70 or 80% of

5:28

couples , if one of them

5:30

goes through cancer , I think it's like 70

5:32

or 80% , within three years of their

5:34

diagnosis , end up in a divorce . And

5:36

I could totally see it , because it's a very intense journey

5:38

that surfaces all of your

5:42

deepest , darkest demons that you

5:44

haven't dealt with . And

5:47

her side too , like she used to be terribly

5:49

afraid of being alone and powerless

5:51

. And then , boom , it's like and this is the

5:53

gift of COVID , it's like deal with your shadows , humanity

5:55

. There's no way around it . You are going to see

5:58

them , you are going to deal with it . And if not

6:00

exit , or you're distressed and you're overwhelmed

6:02

or whatever , however you

6:04

choose to navigate that . So for me

6:06

it was definitely cancer . But I also

6:09

believe that all of us have this

6:11

thing that is unconscious

6:13

, like what ? Like there's three parts of us there's

6:16

what we know , there's what we don't know , and

6:18

then there's what we don't know . That we don't know . Right

6:21

, yeah , things are not a problem

6:23

if we know how to work with them or if we're oh

6:25

yeah , I know this not a problem . It's not really

6:28

even a problem if we don't know it

6:30

. Like , oh , I know that , I don't know that , that's

6:32

fine , I can talk to McKenzie , I can talk to

6:34

this coach , I can go to this therapist , I can read

6:36

this book , I can watch this documentary . But

6:38

then there's this whole spectrum . That's like

6:40

I don't even know what I do not

6:42

know . And in like an Eastern

6:45

religion or philosophy , or in Hinduism

6:47

, a lot of the ancient

6:50

yogis , they would

6:52

identify with ignorance , which

6:54

us Westerners were . What do you mean ? You would identify

6:56

with ignorance ? That seems absolutely absurd

6:59

, but I get it Like

7:01

they're like well , look , if I identify with what I

7:03

know , I'm just like . I'm just like I'm very limited , but

7:05

if I can identify with like I don't

7:07

know , just bumbling

7:10

about as a human , trying to figure it out , just as you

7:12

. Then there's this myriad

7:14

of possibilities where wisdom can

7:16

exist , because we're sitting in this space of

7:18

like I don't know . And

7:20

so , with the unconscious , I find

7:23

that our conscious self and

7:25

our unconscious , it lets things kind of bubble

7:27

up from underneath the surface when it knows

7:29

that we have the capacity

7:32

to navigate them . Like we have this

7:34

really fantastic body in this energetic

7:37

being . That's like all right , there's

7:39

all of this stuff , whether it's this lifetime or

7:41

past lifetimes , potentially , I don't know

7:43

, maybe there's all this stuff stored

7:46

in this memory thing known as

7:48

me . And then somehow my

7:50

unconscious and this is for every person

7:52

as they go about life it's like

7:54

let's let that up , let's let this up . And

7:57

if we have the courage to look at this objectively

7:59

and start to like , hmm , I wonder , and stay in

8:01

curiosity , then it just starts to

8:03

unfold or unravel that which

8:05

wants to come through us , and so I know this is

8:08

a long one . Along with it , answered it like

8:10

what changed for you ? Yes , cancer

8:12

is a simple answer , but the other pieces ? I just

8:14

feel like this is what my unconscious bubbled

8:16

up for me to evolve that

8:18

I have no control over . Really it , just here

8:21

it is .

8:22

Yeah , exactly , and I think too , for

8:25

many , many people , health

8:28

, so cancer for you or your

8:30

wife a crisis or

8:32

a change of something

8:34

really changes their

8:37

direction and perspective .

8:39

Right , yeah , 100% . I mean like

8:41

with my wife and even me I

8:43

couldn't , I couldn't help her , like I did

8:45

my best to be a caretaker . But

8:47

then that put me , like face to face with one

8:50

of my deepest fears , which is like that you

8:52

are powerless and there's

8:54

nothing that you do that matters . And

8:56

in that scenario , it was true

8:59

for me I legitimately was powerless

9:01

, seeing her in pain . There's

9:03

literally nothing I could do that could change it , besides

9:06

just be with her and that experience

9:08

and cry or be angry or whatever the

9:10

experience was . But then that starts unraveling

9:13

these little egoic attachments that are like

9:15

, yes , I am strong and I am

9:17

powerful and I am the creator of my reality

9:19

, because now I'm like well , am I ? really

9:22

the creator of my reality . Like

9:24

I know some development world says we

9:26

are the creator of our realities . Grab

9:28

, like a Texas analogy , grab

9:30

life by the horns , right the whole body of the horn and

9:33

like steer it or be the captain of your ship

9:35

. And there's

9:37

relevance and there's power . And I'm not negating

9:39

it because it's like well , do

9:42

you just go into a caste system

9:44

like we do in India ? And we're like , ah , this is my

9:46

lot , let me just be apathetic , this

9:48

is my fate . That doesn't seem like a

9:50

powerful experience for me to

9:53

be in On the other side

9:55

of that ditch . It's like , oh , I am in control

9:57

of everything . If I don't like it , I can change

9:59

it , and that's that can

10:02

become extremely stressful . And so it's like

10:04

how do we live in the tension between

10:06

those two paradoxes ? Like , is there an and

10:08

also , is there a way to

10:10

kind of navigate both of them and

10:12

live in this gray space rather than the either

10:14

, or ? That's what I've been

10:16

experiencing and playing with over the past

10:19

two years specifically , and

10:21

it's unfolded a lot more peace , a lot more

10:23

fulfillment and stuff

10:25

that I can't even put words around .

10:28

Yeah , and probably five years

10:31

ago , if someone

10:33

would have said to you you're going to be in this

10:35

spot now , you would say , no

10:37

, right , like no , I'll

10:39

still care about , about

10:41

nothing , you don't care , you're

10:44

still thinking , you'll

10:46

be where you thought you would be right . I

10:49

did not have a health crisis

10:51

in my life , but I got married and

10:54

I lived three hours away from my husband

10:56

and stepson and I also made

10:58

a life change . I sold my business

11:00

, I moved , I got a job

11:03

which I had not had a job in 10

11:05

years because I was an entrepreneur . So

11:07

I feel like I relate a little bit to that

11:10

, because five or six

11:12

years ago if somebody would have said , oh , you're going to sell your

11:14

business , I would have said there's not a chance , I'll

11:16

never sell my business . Right , and

11:18

life unfolds and things happen

11:20

that we didn't ever realize would

11:22

happen .

11:24

I've always had a weird relationship with

11:26

life where I've never really been attached

11:28

to . This is the way things

11:30

will go for me , and I don't I don't even know why , but

11:33

I've always kind of at least intellectually

11:35

or conceptually set in this place of

11:37

like maybe , and it reminds me of

11:39

like . That's an adage , where , like the

11:41

there's , there's a whole story where this farmer

11:44

and the son , and like they call his

11:46

son to war , and then the people

11:48

or the neighbors are like , oh , this is terrible

11:50

, your son's been called to war . And

11:52

then the farmer's is kind of like , well , maybe , well

11:55

, and then the boy is

11:57

on the horse and he gets thrown off and he breaks

11:59

his leg , and the neighbors come over the next day and like

12:01

, oh , this is terrible , your son broke his leg . And

12:03

it's like , well , maybe , and it

12:05

goes on and on and on through these different scenarios

12:07

and every time it all worked

12:10

out , and so it was like the Zen adage

12:12

. It's like maybe , right , maybe

12:14

, which is just kind of the Zen adage of being

12:16

unattached . So , for whatever

12:18

reason , I've always kind of looked at life

12:20

. So if somebody would have said you're going to be this , maybe

12:23

, I mean , I don't know , maybe , but

12:25

I definitely still have always had

12:27

attachments like , well , I really want that desire

12:29

, so how do I make that happen ? I mean

12:31

, that's winning for me , right ? Which

12:34

is what the talk about is like winning , and that

12:36

begs the question for me over the past two years

12:38

, what is winning ? What does

12:40

that even mean ?

12:42

Yeah , and it changes along your , because

12:44

what winning was to you five years ago is not

12:46

what it is to you now .

12:48

Exactly .

12:49

Exactly , and you've done . I mean from

12:51

going from a musician with like

12:54

potential obviously if you had record

12:56

deals or offers and

12:59

then to social

13:01

media and to coaching and to

13:03

. I mean that's a lot of change

13:05

in not many years .

13:07

Yes , and I always feel like

13:10

the pace

13:12

of life in which I experience

13:14

is crazy . I feel like , within

13:16

two years , my wife and I will

13:18

experience 10 years of change

13:20

that most people would experience

13:23

. Example we just bought this house

13:25

that we're living in today , in October

13:27

of 2020 . So during COVID , so

13:29

we bought this house . Before we bought this house , we

13:32

gutted it completely , remodeled it , and

13:34

so we've been here for three years now . We've

13:36

remodeled the property , we've traveled and

13:38

spent summers in Europe and we're building

13:40

a tiny home in the back right

13:42

. All of that's happened within three years , not

13:45

to mention the cancer on top of that

13:47

, not to mention my you know , putting my

13:49

daughter into school and her starting school

13:51

, not to mention the stuff

13:53

that like I feel like I'm stronger and healthier

13:55

than ever right now . My

13:57

wife same thing she's stronger , healthier

13:59

, and so it's just like the pace and

14:02

that we live life is very

14:04

fast .

14:05

You're on fast forward .

14:07

Yeah .

14:08

But people probably say to you how do you do all of

14:10

that right ? How do you have the

14:12

time to do all that ? How did you do

14:14

all of that ?

14:16

It's just , we all have time

14:19

. It's just like , how are we consciously

14:21

pointing and directing that

14:23

time ? You know , it's like money . We

14:25

all like money is this finite

14:28

resource , but it's also infinite , at

14:30

least the way that I relate to it . It's kind

14:32

of like , literally , currency , like the ocean

14:35

current or the river current , it

14:37

ebbs and it flows , it comes in and

14:39

it comes out , and so one could attach

14:41

to it and we can relate to a lot of stress with

14:44

this thing that we call money , and we could make identity

14:46

stories with this thing that we call money . Or

14:49

we just come back to a principle of like

14:51

it doesn't mean anything about me whether I have

14:53

a lot or I have little , it's

14:55

just . It's just like a river coming out

14:57

in it and it's like , how am I going to stand

14:59

in the midst of this river and how am I

15:01

going to use my brain power to direct

15:04

its flow ? No , right or wrong . You want

15:06

to direct its flow into a Ferrari fantastic , go

15:08

do that . You want to direct it into

15:10

a Pinto fantastic , you go do

15:12

that . Like , however you want to direct its

15:14

flow , it's up to you . Time

15:17

is this way , and so we could either be a

15:19

victim to this thing that we call time

15:21

and experience

15:23

it rather , rather linearly , and

15:26

one way of being that would be like if we have a fear of death

15:28

, it's like I only have so many days left

15:30

and so , like there's this place , I get it and

15:33

there's another time . Just to like time's

15:35

relative , it is , time is , and

15:38

then again , how are we going to direct

15:41

it ? And even if we have plans and this has

15:43

been one of my journeys , because it's time blocking and

15:45

learning all the productivity things , and

15:47

then I can become attached to them , like , oh , but I

15:49

had this block for nine o'clock . I supposed to get

15:52

my workout , but the child said , oh

15:54

, I hate life , like what ? And it's

15:56

like , okay , well , these are just river banks , like

15:58

I have time blocks and those are river banks and

16:00

those are my intentions for the day . But

16:02

it's going to change . Life's going to like throw me

16:04

a curve ball and then how can I just trust

16:07

the ebb and flow , while still

16:09

taking responsibility to do my best to

16:11

create the river banks of life to flow through ?

16:14

That's a great analogy and I think that works

16:16

for success too , because it

16:18

really is to . Each

16:21

pair of people will say , like

16:23

AJ , you're so successful , but

16:25

success to you can be

16:27

very different than what it is to me .

16:30

I'm the next person right .

16:32

That's great , yeah , and

16:34

I think too , for a lot

16:36

of people , success is money , right

16:38

. Success is that they have unlimited

16:41

money , but , like you just said , it's

16:43

not that . That's not really the

16:45

way it is .

16:46

No , a lot of people , and myself included

16:48

, had done this for a really long time

16:51

and I find myself still doing it . So

16:53

I'm at the point of this time where I think

16:55

it's part of the being and us being human and

16:57

we create these things that my

16:59

friend Jonathan Hess and I call . We call them

17:01

success equations , and

17:03

success equations . They're these equations

17:05

that's like well , when I have a B

17:07

or C , or when I become

17:09

123 , then

17:12

I will be successful . But

17:14

here's the problem when we run a success equation

17:16

, we get ABC , we become

17:18

123 . And then we

17:21

move it and right , oh no , it's XYZ

17:23

, it's 99 , 98 , 97

17:26

. Right , and then we go on the

17:28

journey to create that , but we still don't feel

17:30

this thing , this experience

17:32

called success . And if we're

17:34

not careful and a lot of people do this we just

17:36

keep chasing this never ending horizon

17:38

. So one day we wake up and we have a

17:40

midlife crisis , or we're just like I hate

17:43

life , or I'm stuck , or I'm burnt out , or I've

17:45

had enough of it , and really it

17:47

comes back to like what

17:50

are , what are the values that you feel

17:53

that you're here to uphold ? No

17:55

right or wrong like you could . There's

17:57

a whole myriad of possibilities and your values

17:59

are probably different than mine , or their nuance

18:01

right , and you're going to have a top value that's

18:03

different than my top value and whoever's listening to this

18:05

. They're going to have a top value is different than both of our top

18:08

values . And so the real question is

18:10

is like are you living an integrity and

18:12

are you embracing unconditional love with

18:14

your value hierarchy ? If so

18:16

, then that's all you can do and these kind

18:18

of become the riverbanks for this thing

18:21

called success . The best picture

18:23

I could paint is like if one of the

18:25

riverbanks is your values and

18:27

the other riverbank is this thing we call integrity

18:30

, honoring your word , being your word

18:32

, and then also like unconditional

18:34

love , then that allows this

18:36

like human experience , to like flow

18:39

through and just like a river

18:41

. When a river is flowing through , like

18:43

if we look the I'll say with your American analogy

18:46

, but you can think of any river that whoever listening

18:48

to this like any river , wherever they're at , when

18:50

the river is flowing through , let's say the Grand Canyon , the Grand

18:53

Canyon is made up of sandstone . As

18:55

the river of life is flowing through , it's

18:57

moving minuscule pieces

18:59

of sand , moment by moment by moment by

19:01

moment by moment . So the river

19:03

is literally changing and it's evolving

19:06

, even its shape , throughout the years

19:08

. It's evolving and changing and we could

19:10

zoom way out like a macro level of like

19:12

wow , look at the path of that river

19:14

which is always changing . Our life

19:16

is no different . Like our life force

19:18

is going to flow through again our

19:21

values , our integrity , our unconditional love . And

19:23

then we can suck ourselves out of that

19:25

10 years from now and look down on our life

19:28

and go , wow , look at that beautiful

19:30

expression . And this is

19:32

the gift of us knowing our values and living

19:34

in integrity of those values .

19:36

I totally agree . And if you're always striving

19:39

with those values

19:41

first and foremost , you're

19:44

always going to get ahead , right .

19:47

They break the question what is ahead ?

19:50

There we go , that's another one . Yeah , yeah

19:52

, exactly that is true , because , once

19:55

again , ahead for you is different than ahead for

19:57

me .

19:58

Exactly . And so the head

20:00

is this concept that

20:02

our ego or our personality or

20:04

our conditioning wants to grasp the head

20:06

. Well , when I'm this , it could even be in a success

20:09

equation . When I'm this , this and this

20:11

, then I'll be ahead , right , yeah

20:13

, when it's like there's

20:15

letting go of the success equation

20:17

, a lot of people , they don't want to let go of the success

20:20

equation because many people falsely

20:22

believe , well , if I let go

20:24

of the success equation , then

20:26

I either I'll die , my ego

20:28

will die , I'll physically die

20:30

, or the empire that

20:32

I built will crumble because

20:35

I just won't do anything at all . Now

20:37

, my experience has been this is not

20:40

the case with any human being . Like

20:42

you could tell any human being , especially

20:44

a high achiever , who's burnt out , like there

20:46

is completely burnt out and they just want to get rid of

20:49

everything . And it's like well , what do you want ? I just want

20:51

to go sit martinis on the beach

20:53

and that's it . I don't want to do a thing . It's

20:55

like cool , if they gave themselves permission

20:57

to go , do that , they probably

21:00

can only do about two weeks , maybe

21:02

a month , maybe a year or two

21:04

max , five years potentially

21:07

max , before they're going to be like all

21:09

right , I have to go create something again

21:11

.

21:11

Yeah , yeah , 100%

21:13

, it's so true . It's so true . And

21:16

I know I authored

21:18

a chapter in a book that will be releasing

21:21

this fall . So we're recording

21:23

this in September but we'll probably won't air

21:25

it for a while . But the

21:28

topic was to talk about

21:30

your journey

21:32

as a business person entrepreneur , whatever

21:34

it was , and kind

21:37

of where how you're successful

21:40

and why you were successful . And when

21:42

I sat down I'm not an author like you

21:44

, but it was really cool to write

21:46

this because when I sat down , you

21:48

know the first thing that people are like well , your awards

21:50

, the awards that you've won , and

21:53

the , the name that you have , quote , unquote

21:55

. And then , as I was writing this

21:57

, I'm like that really isn't

21:59

like . When I I think about not

22:02

being on , the like after I'm , I'm

22:04

gone right , no

22:06

one's going to give a crap about awards and

22:08

success quote unquote

22:11

that I had . So for me it

22:13

was what can I leave the world

22:15

to make it a better place from

22:17

before ? I was there , hence a podcast

22:20

that I do , hence helping other people . So

22:22

to me that was way more important . All of the

22:24

lessons that I've learned , that I can pass on

22:26

, were way more important than any awards

22:29

I got . And at the time when

22:31

I won the awards . That

22:33

seemed like the ultimate time , right Like I got recognized for what I did

22:35

, but really made us realize since then I started feeling already so suck , I'd moved from here completely

22:37

out of here that it would be that in the end I actually needed to learn to write

22:39

a book around myself on three papers . That's not it , at

22:41

the end of the day , for me .

22:43

Yeah , I can relate . As

22:45

of recently , Ram Dass has had a very

22:47

, very huge impact on his teachings

22:50

. And one of his teachings

22:52

, at least from my perspective and my

22:54

interpretation of his teachings , is

22:56

like all , at least all I can

22:58

do is know . Like , when

23:00

I die , I played my part

23:03

. Yeah , that's it . I

23:05

can't even control will

23:07

people consume my body at work . I can't

23:10

even control the

23:12

attachment to my creations

23:15

, even making the world a better place . And

23:18

so , like , if I even suck out of myself

23:20

further , I can see the

23:23

brilliance in it , because it's just like this

23:25

deeper level of truth where , like the world is

23:27

the world is the world , Whether it's

23:29

good or it's bad and people do this or it doesn't

23:31

really matter . Like the world is the world is the world

23:33

. Duality has happened since the beginning

23:36

of time , since duality happened in the form

23:38

of consciousness and it's going to continue happening

23:40

in its different flavors throughout

23:42

time . It just is part of this earthly experience

23:45

and contrasts the gift that gives

23:47

us this experience of life . And so

23:49

can I just come home to knowing I

23:52

did my part . And if

23:54

I can be home and like , yes , I

23:56

did my part , then what more

23:58

can I really ask for ?

24:00

Yeah , exactly . Okay , I

24:02

know at the beginning we talked about inner critic and I

24:04

really want to chat more about that . You

24:09

are way more knowledgeable , obviously

24:11

, in this than me , but I know for myself

24:13

. I think my inner critic

24:15

has always been my biggest challenge or my

24:17

biggest hurdle , because

24:19

you think something and then

24:22

a lot of times you're , you're

24:24

, you're tell yourself I

24:26

can't do that , or this is going to be hard , or

24:28

whatever it is . So let's really chat about that

24:30

and let's start out with does

24:32

everybody have an inner critic ?

24:35

Yes , so the inner critic . And

24:37

the inner critic does a gift . I'll

24:42

tell you one .

24:43

Yes , please do .

24:45

Without the inner critic , you

24:48

would never be able to like , evolve

24:50

, you would never have something

24:52

that would push you to embody

24:54

this thing that we label as potential . We

24:57

would never have this driving force

24:59

that would evolve our own

25:01

expression , evolve our own growth . And

25:04

so people are like I want

25:07

the inner critic to go away . Well , what

25:09

if it never grows away ? So here's the only

25:11

story that I have that

25:13

I wrap my mind around , and

25:16

it's like the story of Jesus interacting

25:18

with this thing that Christian scripture

25:20

calls the double for me . I

25:23

live in this place . I'm like maybe it's a thing , maybe

25:25

it's not a thing , maybe it's just like a personification

25:28

of our own psyche that lives in every

25:30

person . I don't know , and this isn't about

25:32

like Jesus or the devil , or being saved . Let's

25:34

just look at the principle of the story

25:36

and we'll glean some wisdom . So

25:39

Jesus is wrestling with the devil not really

25:41

wrestling , but he's being tempted . He's like well , you can

25:43

have the city , you can have this , you can have . This

25:45

is what Satan is telling Jesus . And

25:48

for 40 days this goes on and on and

25:50

on . Maybe this was a psychedelic experience for

25:52

Jesus , maybe he was just really hungry and fasting

25:54

and he's having this spiritual inner psyche

25:56

thing , who knows ? But

25:58

whatever the story is , Jesus is in the desert

26:00

. He's there for 40 days . He's interacting

26:03

with this thing called the devil , and the devil

26:05

keeps saying well , you could do this , you could do this , you could do

26:07

this , you could do this . He's being tempted and

26:10

at the very end of the story , Jesus says something very interesting

26:13

. He says get behind

26:15

me , get behind

26:17

me . Now , why is this fascinating ? Well , to me this

26:19

is a fascinating story because

26:21

he's not saying how dare you attack me

26:23

? I shall kill you , I shall destroy

26:26

you , you're evil . None of that

26:28

happens . Not a lot of that happens in a lot of Christian

26:30

theology , for whatever reason , I don't know . But

26:33

the story is this archetypical

26:35

thing known as Christ consciousness , which

26:37

every single human being can access through

26:39

meditation , and

26:42

then this thing called the devil , which I'm

26:44

just going to label as potentially a

26:46

part of all of us , the darkness

26:48

, or the inner critic . That's like well , what about

26:50

this ? What about this ? And Eastern philosophy

26:52

, they would call it Maya which is always like

26:54

this , just

26:56

creating illusions and paths that

26:58

distract us from embodying our

27:01

part , of doing our part , and so it's

27:03

like well , rather than trying to

27:05

relate to the inner critic

27:07

as its enemy . We must go on a mission

27:09

to hunt it down and seek and destroy

27:11

it . What if we just befriended

27:13

it and were like hey man or

27:16

hello lady friend , or hello sister

27:18

. However , we want to relate to it

27:20

. Thanks for being here to push me to the next

27:22

, greatest version of myself , and

27:25

I know who I am and I

27:27

know what I feel called to do

27:29

. So get behind me . I'm

27:31

moving forward . Like if we relate

27:34

it to the inner critic from this manner

27:36

, wouldn't life be a lot less

27:38

stressful and we can still

27:40

leverage its gifts , but we're

27:42

not being at war with , basically

27:45

, our own mind .

27:46

This is making sense . Yeah , 100%

27:48

. And you know ? My next question was

27:50

what is the best way to conquer

27:52

it ? But I don't know that we should

27:55

conquer it , because it sounds like we need it .

27:57

Yeah , I would say the best way to

27:59

conquer it is to watch

28:02

it . And so

28:04

, again , this comes back to a little bit of Ram

28:06

Dass , but it's a lot of different yogis and

28:08

philosophers and different religions

28:11

. It's like , well , who

28:14

am I really Like ? Am I , am I thoughts

28:16

, am I my emotions , am I

28:18

this body ? Am I AJ Amyx

28:20

? On like one side of the coin , yes

28:22

, and on the other side of the coin

28:25

, no . I can be kind

28:27

of this thing that we call the observer or

28:29

the witness and so like

28:31

. Even yesterday , I found myself like

28:33

my daughter got on her gate and I was like breaking the gate

28:35

and I lost my temper and I was

28:37

like , please , get off the gate right . And then she's like , ah . And

28:40

so I was like , why did I ? Why did I

28:43

choose anger in that moment ? Well , I

28:45

understand , because I've done enough in our work and I have

28:47

enough emotional intelligence , which is like , well , anger

28:49

just means like it's an emotion , because I

28:51

have this desire for change . I

28:54

was like , okay , well , I had a desire for her not to

28:56

break the gate right , but

28:58

then I still chose as the observer

29:00

, I still chose anger . But if I can suck

29:02

myself out and rather than

29:05

saying I am angry because

29:07

now this is me being becoming identified

29:09

with my emotional state , I

29:11

could , in my mind

29:14

, be the witness or and recognize

29:16

there goes AJ being angry , like

29:19

just by being able to relate to what

29:22

I'm feeling , as there goes

29:24

AJ feeling angry . It

29:26

automatically creates a space

29:29

between this thing called my inner

29:31

critic , which is like sorry you don't want to get on the

29:33

inner critic , doesn't she know ? Doesn't she respect her ? Like

29:36

all of that's happening , like consciously , unconsciously

29:38

, but by me choosing to relate

29:40

to it as there goes , a

29:42

feeling angry . Now there's this

29:44

space and inside

29:46

of this space there's

29:49

a choice where , if I'll slow down , I

29:52

can choose differently . Do I want to

29:54

choose to be angry ? Is wisdom choosing

29:56

to be angry ? Because maybe this is what

29:58

serves , because I can't say never

30:00

be angry , because

30:02

sometimes anger is required in life

30:04

for certain situations . Sometimes wisdom

30:07

is like no anger needs

30:09

to be unleashed in this certain situation

30:11

to return things back to order

30:13

, because this is too chaotic , and that's

30:16

even questionable , I guess , depending on how

30:18

far we take it . But we do live in a society

30:20

like , we do have a human experience , right

30:22

, and so this is what I would say , like

30:24

objectively , like can we start to saying

30:26

there is whatever we're experiencing

30:29

and can we cultivate enough awareness

30:58

to start noticing there is

31:00

so and so feeling sad , feeling

31:02

alone , feeling depressed , feeling

31:05

angry , feeling stressed . Now

31:07

we have a space and what

31:09

is it that we choose to do from

31:12

there , which would come back to what we were talking about

31:14

about 10 minutes ago , which would be being

31:16

an integrity with her value hierarchy

31:18

.

31:20

Yeah , so you're almost

31:23

taking yourself out of it and

31:25

looking at it from a different point of view .

31:27

Correct .

31:29

Yeah , and you could have . I guess

31:31

now , when you look back at that example

31:33

with your daughter in the gate , maybe you could have went

31:36

at that with concern instead

31:38

of anger .

31:39

I could have gone at concern . Or another possibility

31:42

is I could have looked at it like

31:44

it's a four-year-old wanting to have fun

31:46

and play and who has no understanding

31:49

of all of what stepping on a

31:51

gate does or means . And it's

31:53

my only judgment or attachment of growing

31:55

up on a farm , of having experience

31:57

like oh , you step on the gate . I remember dad telling me

31:59

not to step on the gate . He even made up all

32:01

of these rules that you couldn't break a gate or step

32:04

on a gate to begin with , like it's just a child

32:06

stepping on a gate . That actually means nothing besides

32:08

, she's just wanting to play .

32:10

That's right . What a different perspective

32:12

that gave you from anger to

32:14

it's just a child , right

32:17

Like that's . I love

32:19

that advice . I guess

32:21

it is because we don't often

32:23

. We usually just react . We don't often

32:26

reflect back on the reaction and why

32:28

we did that right .

32:29

Yes , and this is the work , like

32:32

, yes , we are going to have parts of

32:34

us that are going to react . It is what it is

32:36

. Some of this would

32:38

, or some people would , call this karma yoga , which

32:40

is using life itself to create

32:42

union with this thing that we call God , whereas

32:45

, like , life itself is going to bring

32:47

you lessons , bring you triggers , bring you

32:49

the exact learning experience to help

32:51

bring you back home . And

32:53

can you cultivate enough sense of awareness

32:55

to let life do what it does

32:57

to bring you back home and to

33:00

union with this thing that we call God , or consciousness

33:02

, or source , or spirit , or universe , or nothing

33:05

, or science or whatever , whatever frame

33:07

somebody has ? And that

33:09

requires cultivating awareness . And

33:12

then , rather than reacting , can

33:14

we respond and how do we want to respond

33:16

? And this comes back to the

33:18

river analogy of like values and

33:20

integrity and unconditional love

33:22

. If we find ourselves reacting , well

33:25

, can we have enough unconditional love

33:27

, meaning unconditional acceptance for self

33:29

and to have enough self forgiveness

33:32

to then recommit to

33:34

responding rather than reacting ? And

33:37

the more that we can continue playing this game

33:39

of I'm myself reacting , I

33:41

love myself , I forgive myself , I release myself

33:43

and then coming back into integrity

33:46

, then we're going to eventually , over

33:48

time , get stronger and stronger

33:50

in our ability to respond moment by moment

33:53

, by moment .

33:54

Yeah , and it's really important to

33:56

be conscious of this right . We have to really

33:58

think about it when we're in these situations

34:00

.

34:01

Yeah , it's kind of no different

34:03

than just training yourself to do any sport

34:06

or anything that we do . Right at

34:08

the beginning we're terrible at it , we're absolutely

34:10

terrible . The more that we do the thing , the more

34:13

that we practice that thing , the better we get

34:15

to . We get to a point where , like , let's say , driving

34:17

for instance , I don't even think about driving . I

34:19

remember there was a time in college I drove all the way from

34:21

Abilene , Texas , all the way to my home in

34:23

East Texas and seven points Texas . That's about

34:26

a four and a half hour drive . I drove

34:28

from Abilene to Fort Worth and I was like , why

34:30

don't you to Fort Worth ? That was like a two

34:32

hour stretch . I don't know who drove

34:34

between Abilene and Fort Worth . It was me driving

34:37

, but it wasn't me driving , but somehow yeah

34:39

you know what I mean .

34:40

Yeah , yeah , oh . Oftentimes you're

34:42

driving and you're like where am I ? Did I already pass

34:45

this ? And you think , holy crap

34:47

, how do you not know where you are ? But

34:49

it's true , it's almost becomes unconscious

34:52

.

34:52

Exactly .

34:53

An unconscious part of you .

34:54

Exactly .

34:56

So why is it important for

34:58

us to limit our inner

35:00

critic ?

35:02

Well , if we don't limit the inner critic

35:04

and the best analogy I could

35:06

give it's almost like you're the driver

35:08

of your car and the inner critic

35:10

is like in the back seat , being like turn right

35:12

, turn left . Don't you know you need to U-turn

35:15

, and this is going to shape based

35:17

upon our culture or value systems or

35:19

life experiences Some people

35:21

have said it this way , which is like the voice of

35:23

the parents become the voice of the child

35:25

, right , and so that inner

35:27

critic typically is those

35:30

voices , and it's not just the parents , it's

35:32

also the religious and the teachers and

35:34

all of your environment . Growing up

35:36

starts forming the voice of how

35:38

that inner critic comes through . But it's like

35:40

you're driving the car and that's in the back

35:42

seat , just you know saying

35:45

stuff or joking , or it's different things for different

35:47

people , and so if we're not careful , it's

35:49

just like I've had enough of this . Here's the keys to the car inner

35:51

critic , just driving that car and

35:53

the inner critic will either take us

35:56

to a place where we're like I didn't want to be in Las Vegas

35:58

. I actually wanted to be up into the schedule on

36:00

why am I in Las Vegas ? And now we're frustrated

36:02

because we're here in Canada when we wanted

36:04

to be in Las Vegas , or it's just going to

36:07

drive it into the ditch and the whole car

36:09

is on fire and we're like my whole life is on

36:11

fire . What's going on ? So there's this

36:13

level of responsibility , to

36:16

have the awareness to realize you're not

36:18

your inner critic . It's a

36:20

part of this thing that maybe we're going to say

36:22

is us , is you , but

36:24

it's not you , and so

36:26

it's like how could you relate to that inner critic

36:29

? As if you were driving , you were a mom

36:31

or you're a dad who's driving a car and you had these

36:33

kids , this yelling

36:35

in the backseat . One way would be like

36:37

shut up little kids and smack em or whatever

36:39

. Maybe kick them , or maybe we go more extreme , we throw

36:41

them in the trunk . I don't know what you do , right ?

36:46

And the car . That was always the threat . I'm going to

36:48

stop the car right . We don't know what's going to happen

36:51

Then what you certainly stopped doing it .

36:53

And so that's not going to create a unified

36:56

, connected relationship . And so it's

36:58

like how could you meet this inner

37:00

critic again as a friend and get

37:02

curious hey , what is your need ? What do you really ? Got

37:04

going on , seek to understand

37:07

this and then lead ? Another

37:09

picture would be it's almost like you walking

37:11

up a mountain and you're hiking

37:13

up this mountain with a child . And

37:16

let's say you are in Canada , you guys have

37:18

a lot of bears , and so we have to get to the top

37:20

of this mountain , because if

37:22

we do not , the bears are going to eat us . And

37:24

there's no bears at the top of the mountain , at least for the

37:26

sake of the story , okay . And so

37:29

one way would be like you're walking , and

37:31

then the child was like , oh , look , there's a

37:33

stone . And you're like , oh , all right , come on

37:35

, we got to get to . We have two hours to get to the top of the mountain

37:37

. If we don't , we're going to get you by bears . And it's like , oh

37:39

, look a bug . You're like , all right , but come on . And then

37:41

you look back like where's the child ? And it's like

37:43

sitting down , playing with a stick . And you're like . You're like

37:46

, look , we have to get to the top of the mountain . We have

37:48

an hour and a half . If we do not get

37:50

there , we're both going to die , right

37:52

, and this is how we relate to our inner critic

37:54

, oftentimes unconsciously at least . And

37:56

so we either slap the inner critic around

37:59

and drag it up the mountain , which makes a miserable

38:01

time hiking , or we

38:03

seek to understand and create a win-win

38:05

where we're still leading . We're not like all right

38:08

, let's , yeah , fine , let's

38:10

just play with bugs and let's get eaten by bears

38:12

. I give up . Right , that's not going to

38:14

be conducive to the inner critic or to

38:16

you . And so it's like how do you work

38:19

with the inner critic ? To kind of coming back to the

38:21

story of Jesus , to be like all right , I'm headed

38:23

this way , I'm going up the mountain , right

38:26

In the kid analogy , you could pick up the

38:28

kid , carry the kid . It's like how

38:30

are you going to work with that part of you

38:32

to continue down the path

38:34

? This requires courage . But

38:37

in our inner critic , in this example

38:39

, we could just be like look , I'm

38:41

going up this mountain , it is where it is

38:43

, you can stay here , you can get eaten by bears

38:45

. I am going up the mountain and

38:47

you make the choice and you lean in and

38:49

you courageously go into this unknown

38:52

thing , knowing this is where

38:54

I choose to drive my car .

38:57

Yeah , and I think too . I

39:00

know we're talking about inner critic , but just as you're

39:02

giving these stories , I think it's

39:04

also our attitude and

39:07

positive or negative , right , and

39:09

when you're talking when you talked a minute ago about

39:12

you know it was your parents

39:14

and your teachers and all the people

39:16

that have

39:18

, you know , helped you along the way growing up . But

39:21

I think a lot of that frames our mind

39:24

, where I know I know

39:26

people that are . You know my parents were very negative . My

39:28

parents saw everything glass half

39:30

full or half empty , not half full , and

39:34

it's really hard for me to

39:36

to see something as a positive

39:38

instead of a negative . But I think all

39:40

that you've just talked about really we

39:42

each have it inside of ourselves to change

39:44

that .

39:45

We do have the ability . Well , it

39:47

comes back to like this universal principle

39:50

what we focus on expands . So

39:52

, if we have the awareness that our

39:54

parents look at a life which

39:57

is the glasses half empty , maybe

39:59

there's for a season of life we

40:01

need to pull out a pad and a pen

40:03

every day . For maybe 30 days

40:06

or maybe 60 days , I don't know a season

40:08

of life where every day , you ask yourself

40:10

a question what's working in my life ? And

40:13

you , you consciously look for evidence

40:15

. Well , this is working , this , even the smallest

40:18

things . I mean , if you can find nothing

40:20

, then maybe you're like well , I found this really

40:22

cool mug at an art show and

40:25

I'm , that's what you know . That's working . Right , write

40:27

it down if that cultivates a sense of

40:30

like , life is working for me . If you have

40:32

to look back five years ago to find

40:34

evidence because life really isn't working

40:36

for you right now , then look back . The

40:38

whole point is is what we focus on expands

40:41

? If we're focusing on , well

40:43

, this is how life is working for me , this

40:45

is how life is supporting , we do that

40:47

for a season . It actually starts

40:49

rewiring our body , rewiring our

40:51

brain to start being different

40:53

than we , our parents choose to be , not

40:56

even saying that they're wrong , like on

40:58

one side we could say hey , thank you . That's

41:00

giving me contrast to know . I like

41:02

this version better , right .

41:05

Yeah , yeah , that's some true , and

41:07

we have the ability . Each of us have that ability

41:09

.

41:10

Yes .

41:11

Right , we're consciously making that effort and

41:13

successes I mean like

41:15

the if we , if

41:17

we conquer in a critic or we think more positively I'm

41:20

going to just guess that you're going to say

41:22

success are what we think

41:25

about of success is unlimited .

41:27

Yeah , we can get anywhere .

41:28

We want to go .

41:30

Maybe that's so , let's

41:32

, let's say back to maybe yeah

41:34

. Anywhere I want

41:36

to go . That's interesting because it's like

41:38

well , what if I have this thought

41:40

that I want to be an NFL linebacker

41:43

, Do I have it in my power

41:45

to be an NFL linebacker ? On

41:47

one side of the coin it's like , well , I suppose

41:50

I could pursue that journey . I'm

41:52

only five foot 11 way , 169

41:54

pounds . I don't think I would do very well in NFL

41:56

. I'm just not built for

41:58

that . Like , maybe I could go play soccer at a high

42:00

level potentially , but even

42:02

that I'm 38 at this point in time . If I was going to

42:04

do that , I should have done that a long , a

42:07

long time ago . And so this is coming

42:09

back to dancing in this place of

42:11

fate and free will . If

42:14

I'm just free will , then I would embody the possibility

42:16

yeah , anything I can conjure up I could

42:18

create . On the other side , it's

42:21

like , well , what if , when

42:23

I was born , it's almost like I was shot

42:25

out of this cannon that's headed in a certain

42:27

direction ? And what if

42:30

I can just trust that I'm shot in

42:32

a direction of goodness ? And

42:34

wherever that ends up is exactly

42:36

where I'm supposed to end up , not

42:39

falling to being a victim to that

42:41

possibility , but still

42:43

choosing to respond , moment by

42:45

moment by moment , to the best of my ability

42:47

, to just let it take me

42:49

where it takes me , and maybe that takes

42:51

me to the NFL , maybe it doesn't

42:54

. And this reminds me of a

42:56

different story and a book that

42:58

was by Deepak Chopra . I think it was called the Wizards

43:00

Way or something , and I remember the year it was published

43:02

Fantastic little book , all about the stories of

43:04

Arthur and Merlin's , a fictitious book , and

43:07

one of the chapters I don't remember what chapter it was Arthur

43:10

had no . Merlin had sent Arthur

43:12

three things from his childhood

43:14

that were very , very important things , and

43:17

they appear on his bed and Arthur is there with his

43:19

brother and I don't remember the brother's name , and the brother

43:22

is like what Merlin sent you

43:24

? A corn husk doll , a

43:26

slingshot and a mirror . Like what

43:28

the heck is this ? And

43:30

Arthur is like well , this is very interesting . And the brother

43:32

is like what do you mean ? This is interesting . These are child toys . This

43:35

makes no sense . On you like

43:37

creating your best life , he goes . Well , it kind of does to me

43:39

. Think about it . When I was a child

43:41

, my greatest possession was this corn

43:43

husk doll and I played with it for hours and hours

43:45

and hours and it was like my prized possession . I took it everywhere

43:47

. Well then , when I got older

43:49

, I remember walking in the woods , in the

43:52

forest with Merlin . I crafted this slingshot and

43:54

I would hunt for days and days and days and

43:57

I no longer needed the doll , but I used

43:59

this slingshot and I hunted for days and days . And

44:01

then , as I got older into my teenage years , when

44:03

I was hunting , I found this broken shard of mirror and

44:06

I remember I sat down the slingshot because at that point

44:08

in time I wanted to impress the girls and so I was always

44:11

looking into it to make sure I looked the right way and

44:13

he goes and , looking back , I can see

44:16

how the corn husk doll , that

44:18

desire , led to the slingshot

44:20

, led to the mirror , and

44:22

by trusting all of those desires

44:24

, they brought me to who I am today . And

44:27

so it's this whole allegorical story about

44:29

like well , when we can trust our

44:31

desires and we can just

44:33

allow them to lead us to the next thing

44:35

, it's almost like they become little breadcrumbs

44:38

that lead to the unfoldment of us

44:40

, which is really dancing in the paradox

44:43

of well , I am a creator

44:45

of my reality and free will , trusting

44:47

our desires and also

44:49

the other side , trusting the fate

44:51

side , if we will of . I've been shot out of this

44:53

cannon headed in this direction . Now

44:55

let's just follow the breadcrumbs and see where they

44:57

end up . That seems to be

45:00

the path of success , at least from

45:02

where I sit today .

45:03

I think you are 100% right

45:05

on that . For sure , do

45:08

you have a most important

45:10

lesson that you can share for our listeners , something

45:13

you've learned along the way that you

45:15

really value ?

45:17

Yeah , one of the biggest lessons , at least for

45:19

me , and it seems to be resonant for about

45:21

70% of humanity is

45:23

you have nothing to prove or defend , Like

45:25

absolutely nothing . Nothing

45:28

. You have nothing to prove or defend . You can go accomplish whatever

45:30

you want to accomplish . You can go

45:32

create whatever it is that you're called to create

45:34

and do your best at it . That's

45:36

it . And the real question is like

45:39

do you approve of yourself ? That's

45:42

it . Everything else is a complete

45:44

trap that's going to lead to frustration , burnout

45:47

, plateau , stuckness . It's

45:49

only a matter of time , and so can

45:51

you come back home to really realizing

45:53

and embracing the fullness of life , realizing

45:55

you have nothing to prove or defend .

45:58

And I always ask if you had something

46:01

you had wished you had known was a kind of tricky question

46:03

or something you could tell your younger

46:05

self . And maybe that's it that

46:08

you have nothing to prove or defend ?

46:10

Yeah , for me that would have . I feel like

46:12

that would have completely altered my life . I don't

46:14

feel like I'd even be who I am today

46:16

If I

46:18

would have known that or somebody would

46:21

have told me that and led me through that at a

46:23

very young age .

46:25

Awesome . Thank you so much , a

46:27

. This has been really interesting and

46:29

I really love hearing your perspective . I

46:31

know people are going to want to know more about you

46:34

and probably follow you , so where

46:36

can they find you ?

46:37

Yeah , just go to socialglow . com . That's

46:40

where you can find me , it's where you can see the content

46:42

. That's where I point everybody . Just

46:44

go to socialglow . com .

46:46

Awesome . Thank you so much , a . I really appreciate

46:48

you being on and for everybody

46:51

listening . Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you on

46:53

the next episode . Thanks for listening

46:55

to Winning . Be sure to subscribe to

46:57

get all of our new episodes . If you enjoyed

46:59

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47:02

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47:06

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47:09

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47:11

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47:13

Podcast on Instagram a

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at Winning Podcast and

47:20

on Twitter a @winning pod . Winning

47:23

was created and is produced by me

47:25

, Mackenzie Kilshaw Music , created

47:27

by Summer Firby , editing by Seth

47:29

Armstrong . Special thanks to Shauna

47:32

Foster for voicing our opening and

47:34

, of course , a huge thank you to

47:36

this episode's guest . Thanks again

47:38

for listening and I'll see you on the next

47:41

episode .