0:00

It's time for Windows Weekly. Paul Therat's here. Richard

0:02

Campbell is here. We'll talk about Moment 5, some

0:05

other new features we haven't yet mentioned. AI,

0:08

Microsoft 365. What's

0:11

with the Dropbox integration? Yes,

0:14

there's an Xbox segment in which Paul will

0:16

rail once again, about

0:18

the lack of Activision games on Game Pass.

0:22

We come to expect it every week. Windows

0:24

Weekly is next. Podcasts

0:28

you love. From

0:30

people you trust. This

0:33

is Twit. This

0:41

is Windows Weekly with Paul Therat and Richard

0:43

Campbell, episode 878, recorded Wednesday, April 24th, 2024.

0:51

If you build it, you are dumb. It's

0:54

time for Windows Weekly, the show we cover

0:56

the latest news from Microsoft. With

0:58

these cats right here, Mr. Richard Campbell

1:01

of Run as Radio. He

1:03

is in... I

1:07

don't know what that is.

1:09

I was only a baby in the 60s. I don't know what

1:11

that was. We don't know. It's some

1:13

sort of hand gesture. He's in Sweden

1:16

and Arlanda, which is of course the

1:19

home of the airport for Stockholm.

1:22

So we're just going to say Stockholm, I think. Good

1:24

place. Are you going or coming? It's

1:26

the East Boston of Stockholm. I'm on

1:28

my way home. So I was in

1:31

Uro yesterday and did

1:33

the show and then had a nice drive

1:35

across the country, visited some castles and things,

1:37

and then now it's the evening. And

1:40

I fly out tomorrow morning. I had

1:43

lunch at home. I

1:45

had soup. That's Paul. Is it

1:47

Swedish? I like salad. I

1:50

don't know what we're talking about. I'm sorry. dot.com

1:52

is his home. That's

1:55

where he lives. And

1:58

Together we are going to... Gus

2:00

the latest from

2:02

Microsoft. From. From

2:05

Burma bomb. What?

2:08

Is the latest from oh my clone

2:10

Leo. The so much going on today.

2:13

This. It's. An army

2:15

stay. oh I'm sorry my Billie I'm sorry

2:17

sorry sorry I've leaders been dealing with me

2:20

like fifteen years said the he assumed that

2:22

was sarcastic know there really is stuff going

2:24

on about my those my mistake to this

2:26

good stuff so what so ever got was

2:28

half sorry I use like easy to layers

2:31

like Iran I am I own arms and

2:33

are has a nice when i send my

2:35

mistake limbs the art of is that happened

2:37

Yeah are we talking big news. Yeah.

2:40

I think so. So we've been waiting

2:42

for these qualcomm Snapdragon X leads tips

2:44

to show up. I had talked about

2:46

going out to New York and going

2:48

through a briefing that many other people

2:50

also went through. i'm not seeing anything

2:52

worrisome and sing wants to of things.

2:55

And. I want to. Things I couldn't

2:57

talk about is that they also discussed. And

3:01

seems that some that. Are

3:04

you spent years? But also the Snapdragon

3:06

X Plus are so they promise me

3:08

they were not going to pull an

3:10

Intel and have too many tears. Excuse?

3:12

whatever, but actually there are going to

3:14

be for it skews altogether at least

3:16

at launch. Three. Of the x.

3:19

Elites and one of the X Plus. The

3:23

exploits is a. A lower

3:25

and ship although on all the same benchmarks

3:27

if they always tout it's not all benchmarks

3:29

right? But I'm is no comes out ahead

3:32

of the Apple and three that the high

3:34

end. A items as from my

3:36

until an empty as well so. It

3:39

it has those same advantages. Or.

3:42

Pc makers the advances this levy less

3:45

expensive, right? Because honest when women obviously.

3:47

But if the sun obvious these things

3:49

are going to target the kind of

3:51

premium ultimate part of the market, right?

3:53

And. We don't have to do. With.

3:56

Surprising or anything like that. Politicans fair to

3:58

assume that, especially based on. Previous.

4:01

Call com base, pcs, etc etc. These are

4:03

all going to be north of a thousand

4:05

bucks. so. Maybe this one

4:07

comes in a lot closer to his house or even

4:09

to center. thousands depending on the device will say. So.

4:11

We have the world same as.

4:14

Ah, explaining what Thud name means

4:17

diagram so this was not. This

4:19

was not something they showed us

4:21

how many was actually was it

4:24

and I Target brand products are

4:26

products of Punk Com Technologies enjoyed

4:29

subsidiaries. I'm guessing. guess this is

4:31

there's. The. As

4:33

Go com companies the company so he

4:36

added. Yeah, so unfortunately

4:38

I would. Poetry Urban.

4:41

Design. Language does all kinds of example of

4:43

like of yet explain. It may be says because

4:45

you think it is I'm and I would say

4:47

that for this branding it's like yikes. So you

4:49

know if you're familiar with Intel or Amd each

4:51

upsets you know that there's like a naming. Convention.

4:54

The years in the it's always terrible

4:57

and dubstep. Era clock on landed

4:59

right. The road space for that is

5:01

this is terrible as well as far

5:03

as a it's meant to described as

5:06

someone who cares about the stuff. the

5:08

generation. The. Tear in

5:10

there for those Elite are

5:12

you? Plus it's crazy. So

5:15

his ex and Eternal X

5:17

plus. It. Mueller it is. He

5:20

guilty these numbers. It's very clear that

5:22

exactly one kind of die. And.

5:24

These numbers are based on testing. oh it's

5:26

spinning of it. Ice is all about been

5:28

does that was my okay that are they

5:30

not gonna say that? That was my as

5:33

hundred percent male. The words these things are

5:35

land were like in the sense that shit

5:37

Arab media. Patreon chipsets is still a little

5:39

bit magic. Physically had science, they don't They're

5:41

not all exactly the same. And.

5:44

These things are gonna run it

5:46

like as they They are stable

5:48

at some frequency and they deliver

5:50

some level performance. Prosper benchmarks. And.

5:53

Thus, we will name them differently and

5:55

I so that was my assumption. Snapdragon

5:57

acts as the series and we chose

5:59

Generation once. That's gonna be the same for everything

6:01

that's going to be. x. Yes,

6:03

As and then there's to tears elite

6:05

or class or as I your P

6:08

E or play an Elite meaning all

6:10

twelve course work in a beating right?

6:12

kind of the to of course but

6:14

that's not enough granularity savannah today as

6:17

askew number which obviously Sceptre completely directly

6:19

correlated the in these range from sixty

6:21

four to eighty four fast for said

6:23

on the internet for as an A

6:26

plus spread some of the sixty of

6:28

the. The Snapdragon X, Plus,

6:30

and then the lowest End

6:32

actually are almost identical. I'm. I'm

6:35

struggling to remember what the difference was between

6:38

them. Oh, it's member course the as Moscow's

6:40

talkers. right? And then it's clock

6:42

for hims ten. The just bench, the clock

6:44

speed plus the blouse. It. And

6:47

now is are So. When.

6:49

It When you got from Plus to the lowest

6:51

level of the leap, you're going up to court

6:53

see by from ten processor cores to twelve. When.

6:56

You got from that one to the middle of Alexa

6:58

Lead. The difference is. The. Stool. Or.

7:01

Boost capability right where it can

7:03

run faster for some uncertain of

7:05

my all sounds. A benchmark data

7:07

like the dispenses individually would insert

7:10

the market up. And

7:12

then erm the highest and one

7:14

is a higher clock speed, a

7:16

higher dual boot, a dual core

7:18

boost speed. And.

7:20

Are sire a number A rub the Gp

7:23

was a. What's. The right

7:25

term, larger tariff once or the higher

7:27

terrible for your smurf rampage more flop

7:30

it's eyes and and everything else is

7:32

the same. So. There

7:34

was an article today the same seven Pm

7:37

and was an article the day I doubtless

7:39

and Ike's I Don't Wanna That I want

7:41

to get this guide airtime that I as

7:43

and not only does not deserve this attack.

7:45

Okay okay the fact that this was spread

7:47

on tech meme and that everyone's writing about

7:49

it is like guys, come on I just.

7:52

Knew I was my. I did not bookmark it because

7:54

I feel like we'll see when we get him. Anything.

7:57

Else that speculation. so the have

7:59

a Just to give you a

8:01

broad overview of what he's referring to,

8:04

someone wrote an article that said, they're lying. These

8:06

are all made up. Everything they say is made

8:08

up. The performance is not this good. And

8:11

it's one of those things, I know for

8:13

a fact. So

8:16

here's the thing. Benchmarks

8:19

are benchmarks. I mean, whatever. These

8:21

devices are gonna go out in the world. I

8:24

always qualified this, like we're gonna review these things.

8:26

Yeah, people are gonna wrench benchmarks. They're gonna compare

8:28

them to each other, Intel

8:30

and AMD PCs. They're gonna compare them

8:32

to M, whatever, max. How soon will

8:35

we be getting them, I guess is the question. Yep. Because

8:38

they, so Paul comes making

8:40

this very aggressive claim

8:42

that they best the Apple

8:44

M3, the latest Apple processor.

8:48

So, well, in the benchmarks, they care

8:50

to bench it. So for example, with

8:53

the M3 in particular, the way that

8:55

the Snapdragon chip sets beat it are

8:57

I think multi-core benchmarks, whatever those are.

9:01

Single core is very close. I think they might actually be a

9:03

little bit ahead. It doesn't beat

9:05

out the M3 max, the M3

9:07

pro necessarily, although it's competitive. Oh, it's the

9:09

base M3 that it's beat. It's the base

9:12

M3. I just wanna be clear about

9:14

that. On the PC side, the X86 side, they're

9:17

comparing them to different chips, different benchmarks. So it's

9:19

a little screwy, but if you think

9:21

about what the high end of that market is, they're always

9:23

going at the high end chips though. So they're not screwing

9:25

around that much. But Intel Core Ultra,

9:27

which is a first gen AI PC chip set,

9:30

well, you know, kind of an aside

9:32

family of the core, the normal core,

9:35

comes in seven and nine variants. I

9:37

now have a nine in, I've only had seven so far.

9:40

The typical one for the Core Ultra 7 is like a

9:42

7155, I think,

9:44

I don't remember the nine model number, but the

9:46

nine is more powerful, like as I was referring

9:48

to the core I chips as well. And

9:51

then on the AMD side, they're comparing it to like the 7900 slash 8900

9:53

series HS. HS

9:56

on AMD, not a hardware guy, but it's sort of

9:59

like the... What used to be

10:01

h. right? On the Pcs I

10:03

we now scientists. The girls p

10:05

Now rice paper on. The. One thing

10:07

in the middle they don't do you and eight

10:09

or whatever. the chip that whatever the nominee place

10:11

was whatever was so that they are comparing it

10:13

to very high and ships so to speak. That.

10:16

Again, I mean anyone and I had this discussion

10:18

with people the day I visited Paul Com not

10:20

people I caught on the people like me nerds.

10:23

That with who was use these devices

10:25

that are based on the entire coral

10:28

to chipsets. Yeah, it's kind of underwhelming,

10:30

right? A Better Life has gone down

10:32

from it's as middling. We. Know

10:34

that the Mp performances terrible. They are missing the

10:36

fix that by the end of this year. I'm

10:39

a India's a little bit less well known because

10:41

the descent that many trips or a pcs on

10:43

the world but these things yet. But.

10:46

I'm like they're They're all in the mix,

10:48

but they're all in different places. I

10:51

for being honest with ourselves. A

10:54

Yeah, I'm sure a lot of if you could

10:56

find a real Microsoft fanatic, they would love to

10:58

the singers to come to destroy the M Three,

11:00

whatever that means. But realistically speaking, As.

11:02

Long as it's comparable, For.

11:04

The People at Once a Windows Pc. And.

11:07

Having used or the smack poker have had enough

11:09

for what animal five six weeks and ever spent

11:11

one or Windows Pc I get a day. I

11:13

loved his leg and on so many levels and

11:15

my review was gonna be glowing. But.

11:17

The where it falls apart from me

11:20

Honestly as the matter was your experience

11:22

I just don't like and it's inconsistent.

11:24

It has some deepening holes. And.

11:26

They're not enough ads in there and I

11:28

I think they'd Yeah yeah. disappointed with ions

11:30

Actually what I meant by gaping online you

11:33

around Method or from. Sino

11:35

Alison A It's a it's It's a

11:37

matter of personal taste. Well.

11:40

I could I strongly the for the

11:42

mack over the know it's didn't have

11:44

the matter price ice i despite because

11:46

of the. There

11:49

are no workarounds to some the proms I have said.

11:51

I kept their to sings like Indo and as I

11:53

can on the Mac and a A. maybe their third

11:55

party Italy some of us have maybe? I don't know.

11:57

I've. i've tried to do things the app away and

12:00

And I really like, I love some of it,

12:02

some of it's fantastic. And

12:06

it's made me a full screen convert, which is

12:08

kind of weird. I kind of rejected all that

12:10

stuff. No, I love that. And

12:12

that's something we just don't have

12:15

on the Windows side effectively. There's

12:17

good and bad. I'm not, I don't mean to

12:19

just crap on it. We can find it out when your

12:21

review comes out. Okay. I think

12:24

the main thing to point out is it's

12:26

brilliantly positive. It's one thing to say benchmarks

12:28

outperform the M3. And

12:30

I'll grant them that. It's another

12:32

thing is, how do you

12:34

use it and what software are you using?

12:36

And if you've got Windows on arm and

12:38

you don't have all the programs you want.

12:41

I mean, I don't think that's been out for a

12:43

few years. I think they've got all

12:45

the stuff that's important moved over. That's not really the

12:48

issue it used to be. That's

12:51

good enough. But you're right. But

12:53

you are right in that it's real

12:55

world experience. You know, like it's one,

12:57

by the way, that's all that really

12:59

matters. The story you referenced earlier was

13:01

that, well, but this person's claim is that

13:03

they're lying about the benchmarks. Right. It's

13:06

like, guys, we're going to have, everyone's going to get

13:08

to run their own benchmarks on real hardware. We're going

13:10

to see what those numbers are. And by the way,

13:12

the truth will come out. Benchmark numbers have

13:14

leaked. Those aren't fake. Those

13:17

are. It would be pretty dumb

13:19

of Qualcomm to lie on benchmarks when they're

13:21

about to release the product. You're going to

13:23

get busted every time. Like crazy. Right. And

13:26

by the way, this is one hit away from

13:28

being dead. So if they,

13:30

if they pulled that nonsense here, then

13:32

it came out. Oh my God, they

13:34

lied. And it's completely different. I guess

13:36

what? It's over folks. It's over. That

13:39

would be a strategic era of

13:42

epic proportions. So

13:44

nothing. Everybody wants

13:47

this chip set to exist. It just needs

13:49

to be good. So

13:51

you're carefully positioning it to be the best.

13:54

It's not even essential. The

13:57

way PCs are today, and I include Max in this

13:59

list, is. that for most

14:01

people we have our opinions about user interfaces and which

14:03

systems better and all that kind of stuff. But we

14:05

run apps, we get work, then we walk on it,

14:07

we move on to the next thing, whatever it is.

14:10

And like I said, I don't think most people are

14:12

sitting there with a timer saying, you know, this one's

14:14

one-tenth of a second faster to do this and this

14:17

one's one-tenth of a second faster to do this. Another

14:19

thing, you know, we just want to get our, we

14:21

want to get work done.

14:23

And like I said, I think

14:25

the goal here is, we'll see how it lands on

14:27

benchmarks. We will because everyone's going to do that. But

14:29

I think the important thing is, what

14:31

are these things, what's the real experience in real

14:33

world? And we've got the years

14:36

of work that Microsoft's done to improve

14:38

all the compatibility and performance, and

14:42

then finally we have Qualcomm showing up on the hardware side.

14:44

So it's going to come together, we're going to find out.

14:47

I've yet to see anything to

14:50

make me concerned, is how I would put it.

14:53

And all of YouTube will create

14:55

both synthetic and actual benchmarks

14:57

of various applications, various,

15:00

you know, processes, and

15:02

we're going to know. Like, I'll tell you what

15:04

our audience cares about. They're going to say, well,

15:07

what is, how do Paul and Richard

15:09

feel using it? And does it,

15:11

you know, does it feel snappy? Does it

15:13

do things fast? Does it do this stuff?

15:15

Does it give a little, give me a

15:18

little tingle in my belly? You know, you're

15:20

sort of joking, but there's something to that.

15:22

Because honestly, there is a, there

15:24

are these logical hard numbers and things like

15:26

that. You can say, look, I've averaged

15:29

X number of whatever hours of battery life. This

15:31

is like an objective fact. It's my workload, whatever

15:33

it is. But there is that kind

15:35

of more emotional side to something like this that

15:38

has to do with the design of the

15:40

machine. You know, some of the appealing things

15:42

about this Mac, the MacBook Air, is that

15:44

it doesn't have fans, doesn't

15:46

make any sound, never gets hot, never

15:48

coughs, stalls, stutters, pauses. It's just whatever

15:50

you want to do, it just does.

15:52

I ran, I loaded up

15:54

a Resident Evil. It's no drama. I

15:56

play this thing. all

16:01

the way through until I couldn't play it anymore because

16:03

I played the free version I played the first segment

16:05

whatever and this thing the

16:07

battery life went down a little bit the machine

16:09

didn't get hot it was no it didn't make

16:11

a peep it was fine and

16:13

oh by the way while I was doing that I still had

16:15

everything running in the background I just I didn't close anything you

16:18

know like like where it's every

16:20

time I open the lid it

16:22

comes on which I know is a ridiculous thing to

16:24

say that's how but there's a lot of working laptops

16:26

to do I have dozens

16:28

of laptops here let me tell you something

16:30

it's a roulette wheel and it's a roulette

16:32

wheel on the same PC I

16:35

have a HP Dragonfly Pro that I love

16:37

and it is I could

16:39

give you six possible things that could happen when this thing

16:41

when I open that lady giving time to you which is

16:44

yep anytime it's

16:46

it is unpredictable so

16:49

there are a thing I think the thing that the good

16:51

thing about the Mac for me was that it kind of

16:53

opened my eyes to some things I had kind of

16:56

taken for granted on the PC side and it

16:58

made me realize like I

17:00

need to watch for the stuff because this can be better

17:02

and that's the type of thing I'll be looking for on

17:04

these Qualcomm based PCs right the

17:07

instant on promise we've always had

17:09

the 10 to 20

17:11

hours of battery life we've always been promised the

17:13

you know effortless hitch list

17:15

performance the you know the compatibility yada

17:17

yada yada you know everything so if

17:20

they're really are pulling down 45 tops I mean that's

17:24

LLM class performance

17:26

like you should be able to

17:28

run a pretty damn large on

17:31

device language model which

17:34

by the way I bet it does that

17:36

great but if I open a notepad

17:38

and I have to wait three seconds for it to

17:40

see you're done instead to me I mean

17:42

it well it is I always be can't remember

17:44

with hyperthreading where as soon as you had a

17:47

couple of different apps running and it would start

17:49

to bond between the processors and

17:51

none of the benchmarks ever showed that

17:53

but in normal real work behavior that

17:55

interaction became a huge issue they

17:58

actually they re-architected the CPU after

18:00

that. So this

18:03

is a great question is what

18:05

is the interrupt level going over to the NPU?

18:07

How do they shift memory

18:09

on those things? Until we're really doing

18:11

work on it, until you're in a

18:13

flow, calling between different bits of

18:15

software that are a normal part of work, you're not

18:18

going to find those kinds of things. Yeah.

18:21

I can't wait to find out. I expect to

18:24

have a number of these come through the

18:26

house this year, right? I mean, I'm literally

18:28

forwarding candy crush benchmarks. But

18:32

really, when are we going to see these? That's

18:34

my question. Yeah. So no one has said explicitly

18:37

and privately or publicly, but what

18:40

they've been saying, Qualcomm is mid-year,

18:42

but we know, look, we know Microsoft

18:44

is going to announce Qualcomm-based

18:47

Surface laptop devices.

18:50

Anyway, we know devices. Like it

18:52

was only A20, right before it built.

18:55

It will probably be part of the build keynote or something

18:58

as well, I would imagine, right? I just, you know, at

19:00

least mention it. It doesn't mean they'll

19:02

give a date either. It'll just be on pre-order. We'll

19:04

ship them. We'll ship them. We'll

19:06

have some idea of what an actual machine looks

19:08

like. We've seen some leaks of some Lenovo PCs

19:10

as well. I'll bet it's silver

19:12

with a screen. Yes.

19:15

So one of the, I don't know

19:17

if this came up last

19:20

week or if it happened since, but one of the first one

19:22

that leaked was like an idea pad or something

19:24

like that. It's like a slim, you know, the

19:26

type of thing that would be fanless, right? The

19:28

second one, that yoga style Lenovo.

19:31

Yeah. The second one was a

19:33

more typical ThinkPad T-series laptop, like

19:36

a T40 or whatever S,

19:38

which, you know, used to be the slim thing before

19:40

the X1 series came around. But all those keys

19:42

are tanks, right? Like they're tiny. But the S

19:44

is the thinner one, right? So the S one's

19:47

a little thinner, but it could have

19:49

full-size ports. Yep. I mean, that's, you know, it

19:51

targets a business market and whatever.

19:53

So in killing a small animal in times

19:55

of Need. Well, Okay. So

19:57

According to a source, I Do trust.

20:00

There will be thirteen and fifteen

20:02

and surface laptops belt on some

20:04

call com. X something.

20:07

Sampler. And right, We know from a

20:09

leak that the pro the surface pro

20:11

will at least be on x slice.

20:14

Because that's what leaked and we already have

20:16

people a blur Will to do p Sweepers

20:18

It's like you don't even have these things.

20:20

I shut up. Intellectual Assist Let's see what

20:22

it looks like. Relax. But.

20:26

I would elders a surface. I mean obviously the

20:28

goal there has always been in, sometimes they have

20:30

achieved. Family straight

20:32

without any. I'm. No

20:34

active calling other than my studio to is

20:36

a beautiful machine. but families it is not

20:39

Scare had been one of the tough things

20:41

for me as like since I got the

20:43

Macbook air I've gotten to so farm getting

20:46

at another one's arriving today. I get these

20:48

lake. Or alter seven or culture

20:50

nine laptops. and in there they're beautiful.

20:52

That is a beautiful and damn. He.

20:55

Turned the thing I'm in. It's like. You're.

20:58

A guy hog? I'd like you areas.

21:00

It's. Time In. I. Said. I think we have

21:02

a little bit of. And

21:05

oh no, Ptsd and the Pc worse. But the

21:07

stuff like we're just you know, Till.

21:09

They get galore. Twitchy with it, but. I'm

21:12

like I said, I just want this to

21:14

be in the ballpark. Doesn't have to be

21:16

better all across the border, center cetera. But.

21:19

That be nice and I can explain if it is,

21:21

but I'm. In. I I

21:23

would like a surface laptop or similar. Ah,

21:25

that's just like the Macbook Air right? But

21:28

running windows as when I went right answer

21:30

to my new on a map again runs

21:32

windows. First for and and I

21:34

know I know putt putt, putt on the keyboard. Everybody

21:36

I know. I can do that with parallels and by

21:38

the end I will. Just. To try it

21:40

but I'm not gonna. That's just and I can

21:42

foresee is rather not. Know.

21:45

I mean, I'm going to test and I haven't yet. By

21:47

the way, I've used it on multiple max in the past,

21:49

but I. Ah for

21:51

right now does in before I read

21:53

the review I just want him a

21:55

pass used on I. Am

21:58

so against. and i I

22:00

don't really, the

22:02

ability to run Windows and Windows apps on

22:04

a Mac is obviously useful in a number

22:06

of levels, but the notion that

22:08

I buy a Mac and then run only

22:11

Windows, like in virtualization is, yes, possible and

22:13

be stupid. I would just not do that.

22:17

So that's my take on that. Maybe you disagree.

22:21

I don't know. Let's see. Oh, and

22:24

by the way, one thing that, you

22:26

know, why do they have

22:28

four SKUs? Right. Like

22:30

why did this happen? Other than the fact that maybe

22:32

they were seeing unreliable

22:36

results in the manufacturing. And

22:39

they want to make sure they use 90% of

22:42

the dye and making four SKUs. That's why this

22:44

can make them so late. And you're right.

22:46

When I look at this new comparison table,

22:48

it's so obviously binning because

22:50

this is, you know, I mean, they're basically

22:52

the same chip. It's pretty clear and

22:54

they can only run it at a certain class. Oh yeah, 100%. Yeah.

22:58

Well, the X plus is interesting to me. That

23:01

one, they literally have fewer cores. So

23:04

in that case, the cores off, they

23:06

had defective cores. Right. Well,

23:09

what they're saying is, you know, and this

23:11

is, this was the whole surface thing. You

23:14

know, when Microsoft took that radical step to

23:16

compete with their best partners and

23:18

make their own PC, there's

23:20

this kind of yin-yang, good-bad aspect to

23:22

the whole PC market where we have

23:24

all this choice. And

23:27

then the bad side is we have all this choice. It's

23:29

like nobody knows what the hell any

23:31

of this stuff means. And

23:34

it's like, can we just, here's an idea. Just make the

23:36

best one and sell that. You know, but,

23:38

but you know, one of the promises of the PC

23:40

market is that we have a range of not just

23:42

choice, but also prices, right? So having

23:45

an X plus chip set allows them to

23:47

charge the PC maker less and allows the

23:49

PC maker to have a lower end product.

23:51

Not that it's going to be a cheap piece of like educational

23:54

plastic or anything, but maybe

23:57

something that's in the $800 to $1,000 range instead of the. $1,200

24:01

to $1,500 range or whatever those wherever these things

24:03

may lay. We don't you know the and the

24:05

performance range is not that high I'll defy you

24:07

to really know the difference between that plus unit

24:09

and the top of leave Yeah,

24:11

well I have Using

24:14

where it's like damn it if only I had 12

24:16

cores tens not cutting I everybody

24:19

Everybody asterisk listening to watching this podcast and the asterisk

24:21

is not literally everybody but most people like we all

24:23

think the same way We're like we have to have

24:26

the big one right yeah like when I am when

24:28

I bought a MacBook Air not a MacBook Pro But

24:30

when I bought it like yeah, I'm gonna max out

24:32

the brim. You know like I just that's the way

24:34

we think it's kind of It you can justify it.

24:36

It's like a future-proofing kind of a thing you can

24:38

whatever whatever makes you sleep at night It's fine, but

24:40

there is gonna. There is a market for is this

24:42

the good one Yeah, I want the good one you know

24:44

that kind of thing I came in the door because of the

24:46

cheap one But what I want is the yeah the well, I

24:49

mean in the price range But

24:52

I have to say I have had the m1 max

24:56

the m1 plus max the Mac

24:59

the m2 Mac the m3

25:01

max Mac Right

25:04

I can you must know that dramatic

25:06

different. There's all your as you know

25:08

there. Yes, there is no difference There

25:10

is I mean I know when I

25:12

like okay, so I compile my list

25:14

code, and it might run 50%

25:16

faster From

25:19

a half a second to a quarter second It's

25:21

a few milliseconds and and and it's just not something

25:24

you would ever notice I mean I it you in

25:26

other words you can notice it if

25:28

you're looking great at granular numbers But you're not

25:30

noticing it when your fingers are on the keys

25:32

you really are you know yeah, it's just not

25:35

so I that's In a

25:37

way, I was sort of talking around that earlier

25:39

I mean I think day-to-day use like when I

25:41

use the MacBook Air I don't notice anything and

25:43

that's the lack of drama to a

25:45

Windows guy kind of noticeable right those

25:47

The lack of drama adds up over time

25:50

But the the flip side of that is if

25:52

you encounter like a little problem here, and then

25:54

a little problem here And

25:57

that keeps going and there it's different things especially

25:59

it's same It doesn't matter that adds up

26:01

to you know, and that's

26:04

what they have to try to get past And

26:06

we'll see how you know, we'll see how it does What

26:08

you want is that I noticed there are no problems

26:10

not I noticed there are constant problems Well,

26:13

and it takes a while to notice there are

26:15

no problems because you just yeah Well, hopefully and

26:17

there are people load up a hundred Chrome tabs

26:19

and then say oh look this thing's new But

26:23

you know what? I the one thing I mean again I

26:25

not to keep going on about the Mac the one thing

26:27

that's kind of incredible about the Mac is it I Windows

26:30

is perfect for compulsive people because

26:33

we are the types who will like turn off

26:35

apps So they're not hogging resources so we

26:37

could do this other thing which is completely

26:39

bypasses the way the system works But we

26:42

do this because we've had bad experiences in

26:44

the past and we never forget or forgive

26:46

and it's like Eggman

26:48

in my And

26:52

they're like dude that was like 25 years

26:54

ago. What is the auto exec

26:56

time bad? I'd like to get exactly.

26:58

Yeah So this

27:00

is the world and we When

27:02

you move to a Mac, you know the Mac book air

27:05

anyway, you don't even know what to do yourself It's

27:07

like I mean, it just works. I don't get it like

27:09

what if you're not supposed to pay attention

27:11

to any of that stuff Yeah, no,

27:14

and you're not supposed to on Windows either and

27:16

depending on the computer I mean it it can

27:18

be semi successful at that it but but

27:20

the fan, you know, whatever. I mean

27:22

I've had I Got

27:25

to render video repeatedly on Windows PCs sometimes just

27:27

because for some reason it clutched in the middle

27:29

of it You know, like I

27:32

don't Weird things happen,

27:34

you know, there were gremlins in the

27:36

system is all I'm saying. So I hope they you

27:38

know the One

27:41

of the sides of the whole conversion to arm

27:43

is they are leaving behind some of the legacy

27:46

dead one I think it's gonna help, you

27:48

know Rather than

27:50

being well, I go when I'm not gonna be able to run word pad.

27:52

It's like that's cute Like 20

27:54

hours like could you just maybe be happy about that?

27:56

I don't Know. So We'll see.

28:00

I'm excited! I went on

28:03

a good he is sitting buying one is

28:05

out that I am curious how linux will

28:07

run them. I think

28:09

absorbed might a you ruediger his own eroding a

28:11

job kind of an article I'm I'm halfway done

28:13

with which is that job and I guess I

28:15

meant it. Yeah, no, I meant to get this

28:18

out before they announced the stuff and eight in.

28:20

I just I'm so busy. but. It

28:22

occurred to me because the way

28:24

my brain works like yeah, you

28:26

know windows is gonna benefit from

28:28

this chipset switch, right? Absolutely. But

28:31

so. Was crumble as a linux

28:34

try to me F and these things are

28:36

already a lighter weight. especially crumble as and

28:38

in promos, this case more modern in the

28:40

sense that there's not a lot of legacy

28:43

baggage there. And.

28:46

That's I mean, What is this thing we've

28:48

all been waiting for to make windows better?

28:51

Also. Makes our time of South the

28:53

Up and now we have something that runs

28:55

for fifteen or twenty hours. Whatever it is,

28:58

and who is super simple a normal people

29:00

can use in you don't have to worry

29:02

about other Babarnama I mean in a decidedly

29:04

longer because it is a more efficient O

29:06

S. and that hurling. I mean it's a

29:09

it's a I. Once it gets

29:11

in your brain, it's hard to get it

29:13

out to me Been so excited for the

29:15

windows part of it, but the truly effective

29:17

suggests that it's good for everybody. It's gonna

29:19

float all boats. Yeah and and die I'd.

29:21

Obviously. The at their have all been decided

29:24

to, but there have been numb. Arm

29:27

based promo s. Versions

29:29

in the past and and probably now still. But

29:31

you know that it's kind of coalesced around the

29:34

whole x eighty six thing. Was

29:36

as such so know they're a long have

29:38

arm based clinic. okay lots of and I

29:40

would I would say the some advantage to

29:42

that because. They. Can Run Android

29:45

apps. An Android apps would run constantly. Every

29:47

one of those. Yes, right. I mean when

29:49

they run better, I. That's. My

29:51

thinkpad. That's my thinking on that. So anyway, I don't.

29:53

I don't want to put too much of a wedge

29:55

and then spoke there. But. but

29:58

it didn't occur to me see that So you're

30:00

kind of half joking, I know, but also half

30:02

serious. You want to try Linux on these things.

30:06

I think Linux and Chromos will benefit from

30:08

this. The question is, what

30:10

if they benefit more? I mean, we'll see. Yeah,

30:13

one of the vendors runs with this in a

30:15

big way, make a really beautiful machine. I

30:18

hope that they make drivers available so that, I

30:21

mean, there are plenty of ARM distros. That's not

30:23

the problem. Yep. Yeah.

30:25

That's a tricky area because that would have

30:27

to come probably from PC makers. One

30:32

of the areas where they don't like this, but one

30:34

of the areas where PC makers benefit on the Windows

30:36

side with ARM is that Microsoft supplies all that in

30:38

the form of class drivers. This

30:41

was a big sticking point back in the Windows RT

30:43

days where they did not want this. This was not

30:46

the way the world worked. They

30:48

didn't want Microsoft taking over more of the stack. But

30:51

the truth is, that's how you want that to happen.

30:55

As an Android device maker, say, no, no, we'll handle

30:57

our own networking drivers. We got this. It's

31:00

like, dude, what are you doing? This is the standard part.

31:03

We'll see. We'll

31:05

see how that... A lot of people are asking

31:07

questions about whether they'll be able to buy these

31:09

chips by the motherboards, but build their own PCs,

31:11

yada, yada. We don't know the answers to those

31:13

things. But I

31:15

will say, there's discussions going on

31:18

with Qualcomm and all

31:20

of those vendors. That's right. The

31:23

question is, could build a motherboard around this and

31:25

you can buy it if you want. The question

31:27

is whether they allow it. Why wouldn't they? You

31:29

want to sell more of these things? Yeah, we'll

31:31

go for that. I have two workstations in my

31:34

office. One of them could be a Snapchatting set.

31:36

What the heck? I think this is going

31:38

to be... This could wipe out

31:40

Intel if it's done right. Even

31:42

things like NASes or little devices that

31:44

run low-end, whatever they're called, now-seller-on-type

31:47

chips. You buy a NAS,

31:49

it's like, can I do hardware and cutting a video? And

31:51

it's like, of course I can. It's running

31:53

on a Snapdragon and it won't even make a peep. It's

31:56

going to be a big difference. I'm

32:00

just saying, you know, setting up boxes. This

32:08

thing in a solid state, a small solid state

32:10

machine, be a heck of a home assistant engine,

32:12

like that be astonishing. It would do all the

32:14

voice work itself, like it could do it all.

32:18

Image recognizer off your video cameras, like

32:21

the whole nine years. Right.

32:24

So we'll see. I mean, you know, when

32:26

Microsoft announced, I don't know, what do you

32:28

call it, Palladium, which became TPM

32:30

and Longhorn. And it was all, I go, this is their

32:32

secret plan to get rid of Linux, which by the way

32:35

it was. But there was a

32:37

lot of fear and anger about this kind of stuff.

32:39

And that may come up again now because we're going

32:41

to see what happens. Like will it be possible by

32:44

like a ThinkPad, whatever it's called,

32:47

T40S or whatever, running on a

32:49

Qualcomm chipset and then be like, yeah, I want to

32:51

run Arch Linux or whatever it is. I

32:54

don't know. There's no question. It's all,

32:57

it's just purely, do you want to spend

32:59

time getting the drivers in order? Yeah.

33:02

Well, I mean, it behooves these companies to do that. And

33:04

some of them, you know, some of them do a good

33:06

job of that on the X86 side. Lenovo

33:08

says they're going to do a ThinkPad, right? Yeah.

33:11

And they are very linked Linux,

33:14

you know, pro Linux. Or

33:16

B&D. They are. But

33:18

the issue here, see, I mentioned the Sanasci book

33:21

last week. And one of the things that

33:23

he, one of the issues he raises in there, and I

33:25

sort of alluded to it earlier, was that the

33:27

system, it doesn't work the same. In

33:31

that case, you're forcing these PC makers to accept this

33:33

thing that was sort of a reference design and be

33:35

like, you have to sell this. You

33:38

can put your own box around

33:40

it, but this is it. You

33:43

don't get to screw around with, you know,

33:45

where chips are laid out and what's in there and blah, blah,

33:47

blah. Like this is the thing. And

33:49

they did not like that. And

33:52

they may not like that. Now, although we're seeing and

33:55

have heard of a lot of support, like

33:57

Qualcomm listed out. major

34:00

PC makers are supporting this. So that tells

34:02

me maybe this is evolved, but we

34:04

don't know that. No one's really tired. They're

34:06

also watching Apple eat their lunch with

34:08

a fully integrated sock and saying,

34:11

where's my fully integrated sock? And now

34:13

here it is. This is a fully integrated

34:15

sock. Yeah.

34:18

Well, it's your peripherals around it,

34:20

but the CPU, GPU and MPU

34:22

are dictate or

34:25

white. They're

34:29

set. They're in one, they're on the die. I

34:32

think that's what he said. He said, I was

34:34

confused. He's

34:44

got like a pencil out. Anyway,

34:49

a lot of speculation still. This is the way the

34:52

world works. I mean, we, the more information

34:54

we get, you know, like the

34:56

first question we got in a comment about this particular

34:58

news item was how much was it going to cost?

35:01

Like, do you think we might've mentioned that if we

35:03

knew, I mean, like, you know, I, it'll

35:06

cost some of us. And

35:08

$5,000 somewhere in that range. Possibly. Possibly.

35:13

I mean, and if you're buying a Lenovo, it is

35:15

that range because those things go on sale every time.

35:17

We come back every day. It's different. Oh yeah. Never,

35:19

never pay retail for a Lenovo. Never, ever, ever. Never

35:22

buy Lenovo device, not on sale. Yeah. So

35:27

I say this a lot, but we'll see. But I, again,

35:29

I, yeah, I, we

35:32

all seem to have landed in the same place on

35:34

why they have multiple skews. That was my

35:36

first takeaway. It was like, that's interesting. And

35:38

that's fine. Right. I mean, whatever. Who cares? There are

35:40

worse problems in this world. Yeah.

35:43

And certainly does allow for

35:45

an inexpensive board, a mini

35:47

ATX board, some kind of

35:49

doc, like all of those

35:52

possibilities. Oh my God. Yes. Please. Oh, I

35:54

knock. Yes. I'm not with one

35:56

of these. I dislike kind of, here's

35:59

a couple. Kind of a question. Are

36:02

these packages,

36:08

SOC packages, or are they more

36:10

like the Intel style? You got

36:12

a memory control there and

36:14

a chip there. No,

36:16

it's a package. It's a big

36:19

package, right? On the die. Is RAM on the die? No.

36:23

Yes. Ah, that's what Apple

36:25

is doing, is unified RAM. But it does have

36:27

the DDR5 on the box. Apple

36:31

is putting DDR5 on the die. Yes,

36:33

on the die though. I think it is on the

36:35

die. I think it's all the same. I think it's

36:37

exactly the same. The question is whether the storage is

36:39

on the die. Because with Apple it's definitely not. But

36:41

that one I don't know. It

36:44

doesn't really matter because it's all slotted in, but

36:46

it is really about the speed of the interconnect.

36:48

Obviously this is what really matters. The

36:51

shorter it leads, the better off you are. Work for

36:53

the Kray XM eBAC for the day. It'll work for

36:55

these. I'm

36:58

really interested in getting one of these. I'm bullish. I'm

37:02

bullish. But I'm

37:04

going to wait until you guys tell me if

37:06

they live up to their problems. I can't wait

37:08

to see one. You'll get one

37:10

right, Paul? You'll get one right away. I

37:13

feel like... I'm a canary in this call of mine. But

37:17

I keep qualifying this because I've done this

37:19

a lot. The macro care has been a

37:21

revelation of sorts, so it's been nice. But

37:24

for the most part computers like people

37:26

just disappoint you over time. So

37:28

we'll see what happens. But

37:32

my nature is just waiting

37:34

for that first pause,

37:36

that first stutter, that first... You

37:39

click an app and you're like, I clicked that, didn't I? How

37:41

come I didn't start? You click it again and then you're like,

37:43

oh, it's moving really. We'll see. A

37:45

crushing moment. Oh,

37:47

it's another mortal machine. Well,

37:50

no, you don't like that. The Intel

37:52

Core Ultra 9 based PC. I

37:54

got a gorgeous, beautiful machine. Unbelievable

37:57

screen. And boy, it's

37:59

like being... like I'll try

38:01

opening notepad everything. It's weird like

38:03

it's weird. I

38:06

think it's just dead in the water. I

38:08

think so too. I am this is it. I

38:13

always look they clearly have

38:15

the intelligence,

38:17

the intellectual property, the prowess, the capable, whatever

38:19

you want to say to do

38:21

this thing but I we

38:24

made look back on the history

38:26

of Intel as Microsoft shifted

38:28

gears and adopted the cloud and became

38:30

bigger than ever and Intel was like

38:33

megahertz words you know

38:35

and they went from being like

38:37

an ARM licensee to being

38:39

yeah we don't need that it's like

38:41

you know I asked them I'm out again anything I did

38:44

it after it had amounted

38:46

to something like I that you

38:48

know Paul O'Tilini I think it was the guy

38:52

who brought Intel to Apple

38:54

and then could not bring Intel would

38:57

not bring Intel to the iPhone right you

38:59

kidding me you wanted to but

39:02

there's there's no nobody he wouldn't do that

39:04

he wouldn't do what he wanted wouldn't

39:07

do it well I don't and what they came out where

39:09

you could see you can see the what Apple last out

39:11

on because Intel the thing they created was the the

39:14

atom like seriously too bad

39:16

huh I know it'd been

39:18

good the atom that

39:21

could have been an atom goddamn

39:24

that couldn't

39:26

be aside from the fact that they're both chips

39:29

those things could not be further apart yeah mm-hmm

39:32

crazy that's I think another

39:34

binning thing where they just had a lot

39:36

of kind of crappy diet you know did

39:38

yeah wafers and they said hey what can

39:40

we do with these oh I know offer

39:42

a low-end laser no I know

39:44

I laser a few bits off and carve it

39:50

up and put it in I

39:52

only kind of understand the Intel product lineup because I just deal

39:54

with it so much but the truth is if you look at

39:56

this you're like why do you have so many of these things

39:59

what is this That's spinning. It doesn't make a lot

40:01

of sense. I think it's been and why does

40:03

the battery life keep going down? I like what

40:05

is it's like really? The

40:11

CP is not may not run but they do

40:13

heat the box. Well you you

40:15

know you can kind of make a vague Recommendation

40:19

of the outside like I would like it's a you

40:21

know you guys need to adopt an arm like architecture

40:23

Right and they kind of slowly get into that they

40:25

do like these hybrid chips sets And then they have

40:27

that core altar finally But the thing is I

40:29

review like the same laptops every year sometimes and you can

40:32

see I can go back and look at my notes How

40:35

your life's going down? Every

40:37

year it's like so you're making this

40:39

transition. I guess you've finally done it

40:41

20 years late But you did

40:43

it or doing it and it's like

40:47

What's the point of this like in the end

40:49

at the end of the day her thing you're you're

40:52

wasting more Look

40:54

we don't care about heat and sound like

40:56

a desktop thing a workstation. Whatever you're

40:58

doing great You know some machine

41:00

people love you. We should really

41:02

do what happened? Yeah,

41:05

I mean like I how do companies

41:07

so fumble yeah? It's a it's a what do

41:09

you call it like it's a defining moment where

41:11

you made the wrong decision Right

41:13

like you can look at certain products and say oh

41:15

more than one occasion But I

41:17

would also argue that every single time they

41:19

tried to branch away from x86 They

41:22

got their butthended yeah, they want to crucify They

41:24

really because they always but they never bet on

41:27

anything like in other words. They didn't say you

41:29

know what we're doing it We're going all in

41:31

and they're always like we already have 113 different

41:33

types of chips like another one It's like guys

41:35

come on like you get a focus here, then

41:38

I never saw me get down. They drop it Microsoft

41:41

begged them and not for years for decades

41:44

to go thinner lighter more

41:46

efficient You know before arm was the

41:49

thing on phones. Well. It was always

41:51

the thing on phones, but before phones

41:53

begin the thing They

41:55

they were asking for this they would make these references. Could

41:57

you do one of these things like could you just do?

42:00

this and then you know the

42:02

iPhone happened Android happened the iPad

42:04

happened like what are you gonna

42:06

do this and they just they just

42:08

never they always said no yeah

42:11

so I am sorry but they dug the wrong

42:13

grave yeah it's not like

42:16

they didn't have plenty of opportunities

42:18

yes that's sad it's unbelievably

42:21

sad because they should have

42:23

they should be making this chip but

42:25

you know it's funny in some ways it's

42:27

called an innovators dilemma right it is I

42:29

guess but it's funny because

42:31

they're towing AMD behind them in a little trailer

42:34

and they go down the cliff it's like

42:37

well but there have been a few moments in time

42:39

where AMD got ahead of them like yeah went down

42:41

the hill or something still like you know like X

42:44

but there's you know they are still it but they

42:46

I mean AMD defined what x86 is today the X

42:48

what we could my call x64 right

42:50

they define that stuff is forced to buy

42:52

Microsoft to swallow that that's right I mean

42:54

even I don't know there

42:56

was in the beginning when AMD was just like cheaper there was

42:58

still a place for them in the market but

43:01

there is a there is

43:03

a really good case to be made today

43:05

that AMD is innovating more on PC chips

43:07

than my and Intel is it's

43:10

not gonna make much difference if suddenly Qualcomm

43:12

comes along with some well

43:15

I'm sorry I

43:17

will say don't ever don't overlook people's

43:19

propensity to accept crap you know

43:21

like the best-selling car that oh yeah and he's

43:24

was probably like a Ford now whatever the little

43:26

piece of crap was yeah and tell you well

43:28

whatever yeah like an AMC Gremlin yeah yeah some

43:30

stupid little piece of junk you know it's like

43:32

you know it's like well you know when people

43:35

can choose a computer they choose a Mac no

43:37

they don't actually they choose a Windows PC because

43:39

PC they can they choose exactly so it's like

43:41

I you know people who know what

43:43

they're doing might choose a Mac maybe or have the money

43:45

or whatever you want to phrase that but people

43:48

still choose Windows computers I think that kind

43:50

of hurts too because it limits the necessity

43:53

for innovation right it's like we're doing great we

43:55

don't have to do anything right like yeah but

43:57

it could be better yeah I don't

43:59

know It's

44:02

too much. One more story and then we'll wrap

44:04

this segment because we've got the whole show up.

44:06

Yeah. So much more to talk

44:08

about. But I think this is the most interesting thing going

44:10

on. Well, this is AI and I know we're going to

44:12

do that too. So, yeah.

44:15

Just to add to the list of

44:17

browser companies that are bringing their products

44:19

to Windows in ARM, Bill Baldy announced

44:22

this past week they're doing it too.

44:24

And if you are into their pre-release, you

44:26

guys are really excited. So

44:29

the funny thing is, unrelated to this, I've

44:31

been using Bill Baldy lately and there's a

44:34

hump to get over with it because it's

44:37

so configurable that it's almost crazy. Like it's the

44:39

first thing that you do and you open it,

44:41

it pops up and things go, well, do you

44:43

want an email? Oh, do you want

44:45

an RSS reader? Yeah. Well,

44:48

yeah. It basically says, do you want a thousand pages or

44:50

do you want 10,000 pages? And I'm

44:52

like, it's hard. I'm

44:55

sure you can get it just the way you want it

44:57

and that's great. Yeah, you can. Of course it's

44:59

synced. So once you do that, you bring it up on another computer

45:01

and it's the thing you want. And

45:03

there is some of the customization stuff on there I

45:05

think is really neat. It's

45:08

a great browser. It really is. And

45:10

it does the privacy stuff like Brave and Firefox and

45:12

all that. And so that's good. And it's Chromium so

45:15

you get all the extensions and blah, blah, blah, whatever.

45:17

So it's a good product. Yeah,

45:20

there aren't that many people using it unfortunately. But

45:23

anyway, the only semi-major browser maker I

45:25

think that has not said anything explicitly

45:27

unless I missed it was Opera and

45:30

then Arc I guess too. But

45:33

we have, Chrome now is out there,

45:35

Firefox is out there. Well,

45:38

actually DuckDuckO has not said anything but the whole

45:40

world is going to do this now. So it's

45:43

happening. The momentum is there. And

45:46

ARM comes true. Big

45:49

bow. All right. Time

45:51

to take a little time out. Get yourself

45:53

a cup of coffee. Consider

45:56

your energy because there's much

45:58

more to come. As

46:02

we continue with Windows,

46:04

Weekly Paul, Tharotte, Richard

46:06

Campbell, our show today

46:08

brought to you by Collide. We've

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of one. password. Okay,

48:03

let's see here. What do you want to do

48:05

next, guys? So, to me, this would have

48:10

been, well, I guess

48:12

because it's Windows, would have been the top story normally. But

48:17

yesterday, Tuesday, was week D. We need a

48:19

term for this. We had patch Tuesday, right,

48:21

for the second Tuesday of every month. I

48:25

guess, what do we call this? Fast

48:27

and fluid Tuesday, the steak

48:29

Tuesday, I don't know, preview Tuesday. There's going to be a

48:31

term for this. But the Tuesday of

48:33

week D, the fourth Tuesday of the month,

48:36

is when Microsoft now puts out their preview

48:38

updates for Windows 10 and Windows

48:40

11. And this is

48:42

an early look at the patch Tuesday

48:45

release for next month. So,

48:47

last month we got moment five. This time

48:49

we're getting something much less than a moment,

48:51

I guess. It's

48:55

less than a moment. It's less than a

48:57

moment because it's a month. It's not a quarter. It's a

48:59

magic moment. And this is stuff we've been

49:03

talking about. The big note. The

49:05

full outrage over recommended apps in

49:07

the start menu. There's also, I

49:09

don't know that this was promoted, maybe I

49:11

just wasn't paying attention, but they're also going

49:13

to, actually the way they phrased it was,

49:16

you might see, they literally said that word,

49:18

I love it. Frequently

49:20

used apps in start as

49:23

well. These would both appear in that bottom recommended

49:26

section right at the bottom half of

49:28

the start menu. Yeah, you

49:31

can turn these things off. I said this last

49:33

week, but the controls to disable this are already

49:35

in Windows now. So, you can

49:37

turn it all off if you want.

49:40

Maybe that should have been my tip. Maybe I'll

49:42

do a little video on this. The way to define

49:44

this though is if you open up Windows settings and

49:48

search for suggestions, the

49:50

top link goes to system notifications, go all the

49:52

way to the bottom, pass all your apps, and

49:55

it says additional settings and you want

49:57

to turn all those off. There's three of them. It says show

49:59

the Windows welcome. experience after

50:01

updates and when signed in show it's new

50:03

and suggested that's not what it does that's

50:05

a full screen ad to get you to sign

50:08

up for a folder backup in OneDrive if you

50:10

don't have that enabled and then some other features

50:12

basically about getting you to enable things you don't

50:14

want to enable the second

50:16

one is suggest ways to get the most out of

50:18

Windows and finish setting up this device and

50:22

the third is get tips and suggestions when using Windows

50:25

so just turn them off and then you'll never see

50:27

these things that everyone was so outraged over you know

50:29

so when they come I guess

50:31

it's very to my ready you dig

50:33

down oh yeah oh yeah yeah yeah

50:36

the only thing buried deeper than this

50:38

is how to change your default search

50:40

engine in Microsoft Edge it's like a it's

50:42

like the it's like one of those hedge mazes

50:44

like you know it's in there somewhere like you

50:46

know it's in there and it's hard to find

50:48

but it is in there and

50:51

they put it in the but it's like

50:53

the most illogical anyway so that's that stuff

50:56

and then some how do you turn

50:58

off the nag you should switch it back to Edge well

51:01

you can't turn that off that's that was

51:03

not a complaint yeah this is one thing

51:05

I think like that because I run into people

51:08

who defend edge who like edge and I

51:10

listen from a functionality perspective even

51:12

from a look and feel perspective because it

51:14

kind of feels natural in Windows 11 mm-hmm

51:16

I get it I do I get it but

51:19

the thing you need to understand is that like

51:21

for you not to be harassed by edge

51:23

you need to change nothing like

51:25

you have to accept every

51:28

default yes you will be

51:30

harassed so even if you

51:32

choose edge it's gonna go after you and

51:35

that's you're not using edge

51:38

right that's right for Microsoft

51:40

yeah yep

51:43

and then two of the other things that are

51:45

in this week day the update are related to

51:47

widgets but not the same widgets I don't know

51:49

why who night terminals I know there's

51:52

widgets on the desktop we have the icon in

51:54

the corner mm-hmm apparently those

51:56

icons are can

51:59

be of low quality low resolution, fuzzy,

52:01

whatever. So they improved the resolution

52:03

of those. And then they've added more. And the

52:05

reason you would see different icons down there is

52:07

if you have all the notifications and stuff on.

52:10

So the weather icon can change if it's cloudy

52:12

or sunny or rainy or whatever. And then they

52:14

have different icons for news

52:16

alerts, things are happening out in the world. So

52:19

I turned all that stuff off other than the weather. So I

52:21

don't really care about that. And then there are

52:24

these things that I thought were called cards, but they're

52:26

adding, what they are now calling

52:28

widgets, to the lock screen. And these are the

52:30

things that started with weather, where you get that

52:32

one card, I still think of it as a

52:34

card, in the bottom middle of the lock screen.

52:36

And then more are coming. I think news and

52:38

sports and I don't remember what, stocks

52:41

maybe, I don't know. There

52:44

have been some changes there as well. I

52:46

still don't see anything other than that one

52:48

stock weather widget anywhere. And even then I

52:50

don't always see it. So standard Windows

52:52

experience these days. And

52:55

that's about it. So whether you run 22H2

52:57

or 23H2, you'll

53:02

get the same update if you want it now. And then if

53:04

you don't want it, you can get it a patch Tuesday and

53:06

May because you're getting it anyway. So

53:10

that's only a question of when not

53:12

if. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you're going to

53:14

bend over eventually. That's all I'm saying. I

53:18

mean, you can be cute about it, but it's happening. And

53:24

then since last week, there have

53:26

been two releases to the Insider

53:28

program. One is the promise

53:31

threatened separation again of Canary and Dev, so

53:33

they've gone their own ways. Dev

53:36

stays on 24H2. Canary is kind

53:38

of post-24H2, if you will. So

53:41

a new build path. This

53:43

means, among other things, that if you hadn't already made the

53:46

switch, you can no longer switch between the two. So

53:48

if you're in Canary, you're in Canary. Now

53:50

you get a reset. No way out. Right.

53:53

Well, there's a way out, but it's... It

53:55

involves paving your machine. It's

54:00

like the summer after high school I did

54:02

construction work and I think that summer I

54:04

replaced a Replace a

54:06

tire on the truck almost every

54:08

day all summer So I replaced probably 110 tires

54:11

over the course of the summer. I got

54:13

really good at it And and that's

54:15

how I feel. Yeah, that's how I feel about

54:17

reset this PC Like I do this all the

54:19

time like this is just most people be

54:21

like, I don't know. I don't know I'm like, oh, yeah, let's

54:23

go for it. This is fine. Shouldn't jump off the cliff. It's

54:25

gonna work great And it by the

54:27

way, it always it's always great. It's fine And

54:31

then just minor changes and nothing to speak

54:33

of there no new build for dev channel

54:35

That's nothing has happened there and

54:37

then on the beta channel Which

54:40

is a little I guess shorter term. This is the stuff we're

54:42

probably gonna see That

54:45

patch Tuesday in May patch Tuesday in

54:47

June whatever it is, right they're starting to

54:49

roll out some changes to the widgets

54:52

More widgets. Yeah, so this one

54:54

now with extra widget Before

54:57

the show I spent a little time

54:59

explaining to Richard how I waste my time

55:01

on work related things and This

55:04

this was because of the language

55:07

of this post Laurent the guy writes

55:09

our news we spent about an hour going back and forth

55:11

on this one on the right way to do it Because

55:14

Microsoft doesn't know how to use language

55:16

consistently So I had to

55:19

basically decode this and here's what's

55:21

happening today The widgets board has

55:23

two sides and they've had different names. So

55:25

let's not worry about that too much But

55:27

there are widgets and then there's a

55:29

feed and the only feed today

55:32

is what used to be called the discovery feed But

55:34

it's Microsoft start feed. Whatever the name is. It's a

55:36

feed. It's a news feed. It has all those crap

55:38

or quality data sources Yeah that everyone, you

55:41

know mission mode about as they should concern

55:44

so Responding two

55:46

years later to the complaints they made this

55:48

thing extensible and They

55:50

allowed among other things users to turn off

55:53

that feed but also to install third-party feeds

55:55

of which there are zero But to

55:57

this day, I don't check every single day,

55:59

but I checked certainly when this thing came

56:01

out yesterday and there are no third

56:04

party feeds. Based

56:06

on the language they use, it's a little

56:08

hard to code but they're

56:10

adding a navigation pane to the side. What

56:13

they're going to allow you to do, this

56:15

I know to be true, is without turning

56:17

off the feed, you can toggle the feed.

56:19

So you can have a view that's just

56:21

widgets or widgets with a

56:25

feed, I guess. Right now it's the feed, right? There

56:28

may be. There could be more but there isn't any.

56:31

Right. They may be, and this

56:33

one's a little unclear, but it seems like they

56:35

may be offering the ability as you install third

56:37

party feeds to also toggle between those feeds. So

56:39

if you have like a, I

56:43

don't remember the name of it, whatever the

56:45

sport, the athletic was purchased by the New

56:48

York Times, I think if you love the

56:50

athletic and you're a subscriber and they make a feed

56:52

for widgets, you could install it in widgets and

56:55

you could toggle between no feed,

56:58

the Microsoft feed and the athletic feed. I'm just

57:00

making that up. No one said they're doing that.

57:03

But I think that's what they're doing. I'm

57:06

investing that in beta. I have to see

57:08

who else are widget sources. I

57:10

haven't even seen them pull. There are no widgets.

57:13

There are no feed sources. So right now it's

57:15

just a theory. Oh, it's a theory?

57:17

Well, if you build it, you are dumb. Well,

57:19

maybe I'll just say that. So

57:22

far, no one has come. There's

57:24

an account manager in start. So

57:28

I just experienced, I think for the first time that thing

57:30

where you open the start menu and there's like a little

57:32

orange circle on your user profile page and then

57:35

you click on it

57:37

and says, I know we haven't

57:39

asked you this before, Paul, but we're thinking just let me

57:41

throw it out there. Maybe you want to

57:43

enable OneDrive folder backup. What do you think? You just

57:46

want to just do it? And then my

57:48

options are do it now or just ask me later. So

57:51

that's unstable. That's

57:54

not what this is. This is when you click

57:56

the, I think it's when you click the power

57:58

button. and you will get,

58:00

maybe it is the user, actually it makes more

58:02

sense, it would be the user profile, but they

58:05

will ask you to do certain things related to

58:07

your Microsoft account typically,

58:09

including such things as you don't have

58:11

enough recovery factors set up, maybe you

58:13

should do that, which by the way,

58:15

not a horrible thing to do honestly.

58:18

When I went on my little security, she

58:22

had, at the end of last year, that's

58:24

one of the things I documented, it's like you

58:26

need to have as many

58:28

good recovery methods as you can,

58:31

and by good, I mean ones that you control. In

58:33

other words, not an email address for work that may fire

58:35

you or a school that may get rid of you, or

58:38

they need to be things

58:40

that you control, and multiple things,

58:42

right? So I'm gonna hold off on whether or

58:44

not that's a good one or not, that's what I had to say.

58:48

And in a sad reflection of how the

58:50

world works, in

58:52

fact, I may do an episode

58:54

of Hands on Windows just about like share, if

58:57

that makes sense, because the myriad of

58:59

ways in which you can share things, like you're

59:02

working on a computer, and

59:04

you wanna get the thing you're working on in this computer, how

59:06

do you do it? And if it's, I use

59:09

Nearby Share, which is a fantastic feature that me

59:11

and three other people on the entire planet know

59:13

about, but there's also an

59:16

extensible share in a face where an

59:18

app can register as a destination for

59:20

an operation. So yeah, so

59:22

you drag a, or you right

59:24

click on a document, you say, I wanna share this.

59:27

And then it will say, well, okay, what things can

59:29

share this thing, right? No

59:32

apps have ever adopted this, that's why

59:34

they're manually adding some, like WhatsApp and

59:36

Facebook Messenger and so forth. But

59:38

they're basically succumbed to reality, so

59:41

what they're adding is email it

59:43

to yourself, just email it, because

59:45

that's what everyone does, right? But we're looking at

59:47

it right click now to make it easy. They're

59:49

literally adding a Gmail icon to share so that

59:51

if you have a Gmail account, you can click

59:53

on it and you can email the file to

59:55

yourself. And that's how fricking dumb my

59:58

world is. That is so sad. It

1:00:00

makes me so sad, but you know what the truth

1:00:02

is People weren't

1:00:05

that sophisticated. I mean I you know

1:00:07

works So they delivered

1:00:09

it anyway. I I'm sure

1:00:11

airplay or whatever. It's called air drop

1:00:13

whatever Oh, you'd be amazed how few

1:00:15

iPhone users know That all

1:00:17

you have to do is touch the top of your iPhone

1:00:19

to the top of theirs And it'll

1:00:21

just all squirt I listen okay, do we even

1:00:24

if you know this here? Here's okay. Let me

1:00:26

let me tell I've might have told the story

1:00:28

This is if you want a mind-blown moment with

1:00:30

the Apple stuff. Yeah, you can copy

1:00:33

something to the clipboard of the iPhone Yeah, and paste

1:00:35

it on a Mac right? Yeah. Yeah, okay

1:00:38

But here's one this this is the one that killed me.

1:00:40

I was in the speaking of the Qualcomm stuff I was

1:00:42

in that meeting and I took a photo on my iPhone

1:00:44

of one of the slides And I'm

1:00:46

like I'd be neat to put this in my notes which are a notion

1:00:48

on my PC My PC is connected to

1:00:50

the Wi-Fi network. My phone is not it's connected to the

1:00:52

cellular network, and I was like I wonder

1:00:56

If I could copy and paste somehow, and I

1:00:58

did and it worked and God damn

1:01:00

it magic. What is happening? Or

1:01:03

you could be a Windows user and email it

1:01:05

to yourself the Gmail because that's where we're at

1:01:07

So it's you know it's basically rocket ships and

1:01:09

sticks and fire Back

1:01:14

for the cavemen in the audience Good

1:01:19

it's because you come rock Yep

1:01:24

It's not even their email. Thank you. I

1:01:26

like you know my email using gmo. We're

1:01:28

gonna put there I think seriously anyway, okay,

1:01:30

it's fine And then

1:01:32

there's an advertisement coming to settings. You'll be shocked Game

1:01:35

pass if you don't have a game pass again. I thought they already

1:01:37

did this honestly Microsoft advertises

1:01:40

Microsoft 365 and

1:01:42

then if you say no to that they'll advertise Microsoft 365

1:01:44

basic And then

1:01:46

they will advertise game pass in setup for

1:01:49

Windows They also actually I think they do

1:01:51

this today. Let's go look if you go into Setting

1:01:54

well see I subscribed all this stuff,

1:01:56

so if you don't subscribe they will

1:01:58

advertise yeah, Microsoft 365 game

1:02:00

pass and actually I think call pilot pro as

1:02:02

well. So right like I'm not sure what's new

1:02:05

there, but In case you're not

1:02:07

great is getting high Maybe for

1:02:09

first you're running out of screen space, you know

1:02:11

first they nagged me about edge and I ignored

1:02:13

it then they named OneDrive

1:02:15

and I ignored that too. I

1:02:17

actually right so I think the title

1:02:20

of that post is they nagged me to install

1:02:22

OneDrive folder back up and I said nothing That's

1:02:27

not my blog post I said a lot Someone

1:02:31

found all the birds of some someone just wrote a

1:02:33

story like why does Windows 11 nag be so much?

1:02:35

I'm like I think I don't wake like

1:02:37

what this is like what this didn't just

1:02:40

happen This is okay Last

1:02:48

week two weeks ago, whatever was there was a

1:02:50

story about Microsoft Dramatically

1:02:52

improved the performance of the Microsoft Store

1:02:54

under underneath the covers so to speak,

1:02:56

right? They didn't change the type

1:02:58

of app it was but

1:03:01

they improved the performance this

1:03:04

past week they announced via a

1:03:06

tweet from a single employee which

1:03:08

I found a little off-putting that

1:03:12

People maybe people don't know this you can you can go

1:03:14

to Google Right or some search engine

1:03:16

actually go to Google because this doesn't work in thing

1:03:18

and type in the name of an app and then

1:03:20

say site colon apps at microsoft.com

1:03:22

And if you search for that you'll find

1:03:24

the store listing for that app and then

1:03:26

you can click on it and the experience

1:03:29

Today or up until recently was it

1:03:31

would load well back in the day would load the

1:03:33

entire Microsoft Store app After you approved

1:03:35

it and then it would go to

1:03:37

the page for that app on the store, which And

1:03:41

apparently that was too slow and too bulky or

1:03:43

whatever for people so Microsoft came up with a

1:03:46

streamlined version of the Microsoft Store It's still the

1:03:48

store app, but it runs in

1:03:50

a small window It looks like an installer and

1:03:52

you click install if you want to and

1:03:54

it it's the store So it runs and

1:03:56

it installs the app, but it's just works normally, but

1:03:59

apparently that was too much for some people. So they

1:04:01

decided let's just make it look like a web download. So

1:04:03

what they do is they download but it

1:04:05

basically it kind of looks

1:04:08

like a normal like I'm downloading from the web

1:04:10

experience because it does download in exe but then

1:04:12

that exe runs and in the background it

1:04:14

downloads the app from the store. So it's a more seamless

1:04:16

experience right? Couple caveats to

1:04:19

this. I've never experienced it a because you have

1:04:21

to actually opt into it as a developer. So

1:04:23

I've never actually seen it. I never

1:04:26

honestly had a problem with the way

1:04:28

the system worked before but I

1:04:30

guess this eventually what's going to happen

1:04:32

is we're going to come full

1:04:34

circle and instead of

1:04:36

downloading web apps from the web

1:04:38

we're going to download an app from

1:04:41

the web. It's just going to download from the store

1:04:43

from the web and I just what's the point of

1:04:45

the store? I don't even know what we're doing anymore.

1:04:47

What is this weird middleman between me and my app?

1:04:49

I don't know. So I

1:04:51

guess that's an improvement. I don't know. I'm

1:04:54

not. It's not a big deal for me. So I

1:04:56

think the way it works now is okay. And

1:04:59

then this is only kind of semi-related

1:05:01

but remember

1:05:04

when Mark Zuckerberg, Amonta Sogo,

1:05:06

whatever it was, he like reviewed

1:05:08

the Apple Vision Pro. Yes he did. And

1:05:11

I shocker, he didn't like it. That

1:05:13

was weird. And he went and a lot of

1:05:15

people got a lot of bad feedback for this

1:05:17

but a negative feedback but he one of

1:05:20

the things he said was he kind of made

1:05:22

the case that Apple was this closed proprietary system

1:05:25

and that their thing was open which it is

1:05:27

not and that this followed

1:05:30

the battle that's always been in

1:05:32

place between like open, Windows, Android,

1:05:35

closed Apple, Mac, iPhone

1:05:38

and that this was yet another example of that.

1:05:41

Leaving aside the fact that most of Apple's

1:05:43

competitors have in fact been closed too, the

1:05:47

quest whatever it's called, the meta

1:05:49

whatever it is, the horizon world. Yeah. But now they're

1:05:52

not. So

1:06:00

they announced, Meta did this week, that

1:06:02

they are opening up this platform and

1:06:04

they're gonna allow third parties to

1:06:07

sell headsets of their own. And a couple

1:06:09

of PC makers, because they can't ever make

1:06:11

good decisions, decided they're gonna, like Lenovo

1:06:13

was one of them, they're gonna sell these things. Okay,

1:06:18

and so there's a loose tie in here.

1:06:20

Microsoft is not going, the initial

1:06:22

report suggested Microsoft was gonna be one of these companies

1:06:24

and it's like, come on, really? And

1:06:27

the answer is no, but they are gonna allow,

1:06:29

they're gonna do some kind of an Xbox licensing

1:06:31

something, something with some third party where they

1:06:33

will be an Xbox edition Horizon

1:06:36

OS device that

1:06:38

I assume will look like, what, a black rectangle in your head

1:06:40

or something? I don't know what the point of that is. Yeah,

1:06:43

weird. But

1:06:46

I'm not a big fan of Meta,

1:06:48

Mark Zuckerberg or VR, but I, sounds

1:06:52

okay to me. VR is an ex-big thing, don't you

1:06:54

know? That's what I've been told for

1:06:56

25 years. I

1:06:59

don't know, I mean, I will say, they just

1:07:01

dropped the price of their Quest 2 to under

1:07:03

$200 bucks permanently, because

1:07:05

they have the Quest 3 now as well. Yeah,

1:07:08

but at that price, I mean, like if you wanna

1:07:11

see what all the fun stuff is. More, even more

1:07:13

people will learn how useless VR is, it's great. Yeah,

1:07:16

I think it's important that more people have

1:07:18

unused electronics in their closet like I do.

1:07:21

Yeah, gathering dust, it's a great

1:07:23

thing. You saw something for the chat, the vision. I'm

1:07:25

trying not to take a victory lap, but the

1:07:27

vision pro sales have been very

1:07:29

disappointing. Yeah, they

1:07:32

didn't make that many in the first place. They

1:07:34

thought that, well, they, I'm sorry. What

1:07:37

did they have thought? There was a very

1:07:39

sad post on Reddit by a

1:07:42

guy who bought 20 vision pros, expecting

1:07:44

to be able to sell them for

1:07:47

a significant premium. Right,

1:07:49

oh boy. And, oh,

1:07:51

I'm sorry, are we gonna feel bad for us? Didn't

1:07:53

work out so good. In fact, apparently you can go

1:07:55

to eBay and buy them for less than retail now.

1:07:58

Right. So. The exercise equipment you

1:08:00

know? yeah the people who buy or amazon that

1:08:02

used to no while stop using it and then

1:08:04

after a while like why do I have this

1:08:07

expensive thing in my house. I

1:08:09

don't I don't wish it bill or anything.

1:08:11

oh no no no it just was Appears

1:08:13

to me we versa ride this and it's

1:08:15

failed and apis eat it from as apple

1:08:17

had gone so far down the road spent

1:08:19

so much money. They. Couldn't release.

1:08:22

Never going to make sense of thirty five hundred

1:08:24

bucks by a thing that is as heavy as

1:08:26

your own head. That nobody

1:08:28

more like a baby you can't You

1:08:30

can't like Albany one hundred weeks. That's

1:08:32

why met as reduce the price of

1:08:34

the quest to nobody wants it period.

1:08:37

Is. Immaterial him as a more difficult if

1:08:39

it was compelling enough. but it's dance,

1:08:41

not. Nobody wants to put a

1:08:43

computer in their face. Cigar

1:08:45

Room. Before you were going to lose my

1:08:47

cool and ask that you will have a

1:08:50

I'm ready to move on. I died on.

1:08:52

Their they to ease his reaction to the

1:08:55

vision? Prose not you, It's can I try

1:08:57

it. And. Then is good

1:08:59

enough. then you make fun of

1:09:01

it. Well apparently the As glass.

1:09:04

That. Apple Store employees are saying yeah, we

1:09:06

don't really get people in here to try

1:09:08

it. My sense of and right. I

1:09:11

think the memory when he was curious. Either

1:09:14

got one or tried it and that and

1:09:16

that's it And it's over, right? So

1:09:18

the market for the same some tens of

1:09:21

thousands while hundreds of thousands a prior prior

1:09:23

to us as may be as much sports

1:09:25

as Apple was raid make a hundred thousand

1:09:27

and eight Now cut way back. And. As.

1:09:32

A bloke. It's not as I think I

1:09:34

am, I feel bad now, but it's like,

1:09:36

well, like I think what you gloating over

1:09:38

his. You. Weren't people of this

1:09:40

is going to much like I was right. It's

1:09:42

like I I. I'm trying to get people to

1:09:44

think clearly here and I'm what I'm trying to

1:09:46

tell you. It's like this thing doesn't make sense

1:09:48

of your dad had it Apple Enterprise? I don't

1:09:50

know. I. i i predicted in this

1:09:53

would see time will tell but i predicted they

1:09:55

will not make a second one and they'll just

1:09:57

quite wow that is a bold prediction yeah have

1:09:59

no idea I think there's not a

1:10:01

market for it. They know that now. I don't know

1:10:03

if they've had us a defeat that

1:10:07

It would be a big one for them Yeah,

1:10:09

and that's the argument that the Mac cube thing

1:10:11

that they made was kind of falls into this

1:10:13

Yeah, I bought that on a new last day

1:10:15

availability That was a

1:10:17

pretty machine though, right? How about the Apple

1:10:20

Newton, you know, yeah, but that was not

1:10:23

a scully so No,

1:10:25

but that might be a good example just because

1:10:27

it was a different platform It was not trying

1:10:30

to do something different that didn't yeah, I admire

1:10:32

them and for trying in building something really remarkable

1:10:35

Yeah, but you know what I did my or more if

1:10:37

they were like, you know what? This isn't gonna work just

1:10:39

like they did with the car like just admit it. Let's

1:10:42

just walk away Well, I think that that's what's gonna happen.

1:10:44

I I just it would be imprudent I think for them

1:10:46

to throw good money after bad at this point But it

1:10:48

was the question has always been will there be a v2?

1:10:53

What's this called us? Punishing the

1:10:55

existing customers boy. Hey remember that 3500 bucks

1:10:57

you spent got another one Well,

1:11:00

they were well warned that this is not

1:11:02

this is you're buying the very early edition

1:11:06

But the durst of stuff the dirt of content

1:11:08

that there was it's for a price and the

1:11:10

price it's look When you Apple

1:11:13

makes these iPhones, which are fantastic. They're

1:11:15

fantastic. They're beautiful machines and When

1:11:18

they market the next one next year and they're like, yeah,

1:11:20

they don't say this but the marketing is basically You know

1:11:22

that piece of crap you bought last year. This is way

1:11:25

better And but you we can at least

1:11:27

know when they say that like come on this thing I have is

1:11:29

great Whereas I think the people

1:11:31

with the the first gen vision probably gonna

1:11:33

be kind of on you know If they do make another one, it's

1:11:35

gonna be like wait, what's happening here? We'll see.

1:11:37

I don't know It's just meta, you know, I feel

1:11:39

like meta did all the market research for him and

1:11:41

Stappel just didn't want to listen Yeah

1:11:45

Right. I said no, but ours is gonna be better

1:11:48

There were those stories the beginning that the engineers

1:11:50

are saying that Tim Cook shouldn't really sit and

1:11:52

he wanted it. Yeah. Yeah Let's

1:11:55

take a little pause that refreshes

1:11:58

before I. The

1:12:00

any farther and they will know to

1:12:02

Microsoft Three Sixty Five. And yes, there's

1:12:04

a lot of Ai news and X

1:12:07

box news. And of course Richard. Even

1:12:10

though he's in Sweden is going to

1:12:12

return discuss that. The. Guy

1:12:14

Will The Glenn's are calling. For

1:12:18

the glen or you're thirsty Richard or

1:12:20

yes harry a lot a have adding

1:12:22

had ever weeds ram on me I

1:12:24

get a bag I'm brandy going home

1:12:26

with own I got the or what

1:12:28

is from a call it that a

1:12:30

bladder doesn't matter when. How.

1:12:33

Many farms, Or. Four

1:12:35

balls And given how long will that last

1:12:37

year? Minutes of

1:12:40

and just because you're getting me

1:12:42

with your friends cause you sound

1:12:44

I saw last about as long

1:12:46

as a typical vision pro experience.

1:12:50

There was a guy in purposeful thirty five

1:12:52

hundred dollars flying home on the plane. ah

1:12:54

last week them of this guy some even

1:12:56

sit on up yeah right front of me

1:12:58

their own from he had a vision pro

1:13:00

on either unless in try would a hit

1:13:02

him ran on right on the i was

1:13:04

hit it was a thing as a a

1:13:06

market research and why does he wards in

1:13:08

about ten. Minutes. Took. It

1:13:10

off and that was it. Never. Again on

1:13:12

the four minutes. Yet. Now miss said

1:13:14

wouldn't all I decided abandon them and watch

1:13:16

movies on the fly By better and I

1:13:19

don't know. Inhabitants are temporary boys were talking

1:13:21

about it's like you want this for being

1:13:23

on the airplane yet when it really is

1:13:25

will listen to or red shirts and or

1:13:27

a boy like to the one in one

1:13:29

and. I. Understand wanting to

1:13:31

kind of zone out from the environment. I

1:13:33

get that. but you're also very conspicuous with

1:13:35

the slant on and I would not want

1:13:38

that and I think you have hair and

1:13:40

people to sneak up on his successor. That's

1:13:42

what I'm saying that's why I were a

1:13:44

decision will sell Bomb As a sudden I

1:13:47

heard outside and M C they're They're a

1:13:49

great way to zone on an A on

1:13:51

a zone on an airplane. Starting with ambient

1:13:53

Rape like Then and Dempsey an arrow minus

1:13:55

expenses an. arrest her sleeping much

1:13:58

ugly arrested by the end of the here If

1:14:01

I could sleep every flight, I don't care if it's the middle of

1:14:03

the day, I just want to sleep through it. I

1:14:05

don't think I'd ever have a dream. I

1:14:09

never can, that's the dream. I

1:14:12

drifted in and out the whole flight. But

1:14:16

I wasn't paying attention, we landed, I wasn't ready

1:14:18

for it, and I bit my lip. Boom,

1:14:20

we landed kind of hard. And

1:14:24

I guess, I don't know what happened, but I bit my lip. I

1:14:26

saw it. Oh, that's awful. Yeah, it

1:14:28

was terrible. And we had a bumpy landing, the

1:14:31

woman next to me grabbed my hand so hard

1:14:33

that she put indentations of her fingernails into the

1:14:35

top of my hand, and I was like, what

1:14:37

are you doing? Who are you? Yeah,

1:14:40

I know, you've never spoken. It's

1:14:42

pretty funny. She was scared. I've had that

1:14:44

happen to me, yeah. Our

1:14:47

show today, my friends, it was me, I

1:14:49

grabbed your hand. I knew it. It's

1:14:52

my fingernails. Look, you can see the

1:14:54

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1:17:31

their certs gotten their first jobs were getting

1:17:33

break training from a Cia. There

1:17:35

are so. Many of our audience

1:17:37

members have made their happy to

1:17:39

see to share their experiences with

1:17:41

I. Back to over the shoe

1:17:44

we go all throttle. This is

1:17:46

the Zones oh it's the So

1:17:48

Ah and Richard Kimble. Lose.

1:17:51

i value are doing the ad i

1:17:54

gotta have a pure have reached and

1:17:56

this is not exactly what i'm looking

1:17:58

for but google is

1:18:01

rolling out a new experience for

1:18:03

Microsoft 365 and Chrome OS that

1:18:06

will allow you to, I

1:18:08

guess, you open a file from the

1:18:10

Chromebook and it will save it to Microsoft, like,

1:18:13

to OneDrive. So it's not like a full sync thing,

1:18:15

but it does integrate with the Files app. I

1:18:18

need to go see this. It's hard for me to,

1:18:20

based on this description, I'm not sure what's going on

1:18:22

here, but it says you can... Yeah,

1:18:25

you install the Microsoft 365 web apps, connect

1:18:28

the Files app to OneDrive,

1:18:30

and then when you open files in Microsoft 365,

1:18:34

they actually, in those apps, it will actually save

1:18:36

them to Microsoft 365 instead of locally or to

1:18:38

Google Drive. So,

1:18:42

anyway. Okay. Breaking news. Okay.

1:18:45

And done. Or something.

1:18:49

Where's this? And let's see, we did Week

1:18:51

D, blah, blah, blah. Okay. So

1:18:53

we talked sometime recently about a

1:18:56

new version of Microsoft Office for

1:18:58

perpetual users, like they don't want the subscription. This is

1:19:01

you just buy the Office suite, and

1:19:03

that there's going to be a long-term servicing channel version of

1:19:05

it, both of which are going to bear

1:19:07

the 2024 name. If

1:19:10

you would like to preview the

1:19:12

commercial version of this, which is going to

1:19:14

happen on Windows and Mac, you can do

1:19:16

that now. This

1:19:18

is the old-school Office suite,

1:19:20

right? So Word, Excel, PowerPoint,

1:19:22

OneNote, and Outlook. But

1:19:25

also Skype for Business, because

1:19:27

yep, it's 2007 or whatever again,

1:19:30

Visio 2024 and Project 2024. Publisher

1:19:36

will not be included, right? That's being retired.

1:19:40

Five years to support. We talked about how they were having

1:19:42

that support timeframe. And

1:19:45

I haven't taken a

1:19:47

look at this, but this is basically just

1:19:49

if you want to preview this before it comes

1:19:52

out later this year, you can. And it is standalone.

1:19:55

It doesn't connect to any of the online stuff. You can't use

1:19:57

Copilot with it and so forth. Who

1:20:00

knows, maybe you see that as a benefit. I

1:20:03

know some people do. Speaking

1:20:05

of classic, Microsoft also announced, I

1:20:07

think, today that they are

1:20:09

retiring the classic, the original version of the

1:20:12

team's desktop app on July 1. Now

1:20:15

that's fast. Yeah, that one is

1:20:17

fast. And my guess here is that, honestly, I

1:20:19

think the uptick on the new teams has been

1:20:21

good. So I think that's what that's about. Just

1:20:23

because the old teams was so rough. It's like,

1:20:25

I'll try it. I

1:20:27

don't hear it. And don't ping

1:20:29

me because I said this, but I don't hear people

1:20:31

complaining about the new teams. I know when

1:20:33

you're in the original

1:20:36

teams. I had a lot of

1:20:38

complaints. I get more stock homes than from you. You've

1:20:40

been so badly burned now that we gave you new

1:20:42

version. Don't make us do it again. Yes.

1:20:48

Yeah, I mean, no one's more lightweight and all that stuff. But

1:20:50

I never had a problem with the heft of it. To me,

1:20:52

it was just lots of bugs and weird behaviors. And I don't

1:20:54

know. I don't see a lot of ways. Yeah,

1:20:56

it works well for me. But anyway, they're

1:20:58

moving pretty aggressively to

1:21:01

get rid of that. And of course, there's also a

1:21:03

unified teams client, which is the

1:21:05

new client that will connect to

1:21:07

both consumer and commercial accounts soon.

1:21:09

And this will be included in

1:21:11

Windows 11 24H2 in

1:21:15

the second half of the year. Probably not in the initial release

1:21:17

because they're still testing it. And

1:21:20

speaking of things I only half understand because I don't,

1:21:22

this is kind of curious too. Dropbox

1:21:25

announced a bunch of things today. The only one

1:21:27

I really care about is some new integrations with

1:21:29

Microsoft 365, in particular OneDrive.

1:21:33

And they are allowing

1:21:36

for the first time their customers

1:21:38

to co-author inside of Microsoft 365

1:21:40

apps, specifically Word, Excel,

1:21:43

and PowerPoint using the

1:21:45

desktop web or mobile client, meaning

1:21:47

the Dropbox client, which

1:21:50

is very interesting because on,

1:21:55

I don't know what that looks like. So to me,

1:21:57

when I hear that, what I'm thinking is, you're

1:21:59

doing fine. file system integration and

1:22:02

you're using Dropbox and you're just using

1:22:04

Word and it does collaboration, right?

1:22:07

But it looks like based on, well, this is

1:22:09

a shot of the web app actually. So at

1:22:11

least from the web app, you'll be able to,

1:22:14

from within Dropbox, whatever the

1:22:16

experience is, you basically load

1:22:18

these apps in place and

1:22:20

there's a couple light customizations where

1:22:22

you can open or save to,

1:22:25

open in or save to Dropbox

1:22:27

instead of OneDrive or OneDrive for

1:22:29

business. My

1:22:32

understanding is that whatever

1:22:34

the sync technology is that Microsoft

1:22:36

uses for OneDrive is available to

1:22:38

third-party developers, which

1:22:41

is what allows us to do things like files on

1:22:43

demand. Well, let's

1:22:45

just leave it at that files on demand basically where you can

1:22:47

kind of just say, look, I want this folder of these files

1:22:49

to be available when I'm offline arbitrarily

1:22:52

or you double click on an

1:22:54

offline folder, but you're online so it loads and

1:22:56

now it's available offline unless you specify otherwise. And

1:22:58

I believe I could be wrong about this, but

1:23:00

I think that the Dropbox

1:23:04

desktop client does that now. And I think it actually

1:23:06

uses the one that Microsoft built for OneDrive, I think.

1:23:09

So yeah, like it's kind of a, not an open standard,

1:23:12

but like, you know, it's certainly a

1:23:14

proven solution. So if that's the case, they

1:23:16

adopted Dropbox or some of this stuff, like

1:23:18

was that really the market leader? Is that

1:23:20

why they did it? So

1:23:25

because Dropbox is just storage, it's kind

1:23:27

of a weird one to me. It's

1:23:29

obviously the biggest name in specifically cloud

1:23:31

storage, you know, standalone cloud storage. But

1:23:33

when you go to Google with Google drive or Microsoft

1:23:36

with OneDrive, you know, you're typically signing up for that,

1:23:38

you know, commercial subscription has

1:23:40

the apps and all that stuff. And I

1:23:43

kind of wonder how Dropbox

1:23:45

exists in that world. I wonder

1:23:49

if Dropbox threatened

1:23:52

to have their own office suite Like,

1:23:55

so I don't remember the details of this,

1:23:57

but they have made, they were talking about

1:23:59

it. In a position Zoya Point I

1:24:01

think one of my the called paper

1:24:03

I think as their word processing of

1:24:05

innocuous Nine solutions and is wondering am

1:24:07

a Microsoft said you know. If

1:24:10

you don't do that when I mean it's

1:24:12

it's a weird thing. like dropbox is talking

1:24:15

about how use it was. So for example,

1:24:17

you can not integrate dropbox storage into teams

1:24:19

and I'm thinking to myself. Why?

1:24:21

Would anyone do this like yeah? You you

1:24:23

paying for teams like. You.

1:24:26

Can have it is to use one try and get a New

1:24:28

Hampshire wondering I like or. Like why

1:24:30

we need to see is that is weird but

1:24:32

it's it's it's it's in a company you've got

1:24:34

all the activities solution. Looking for a problem? I

1:24:36

think so I'm a little confused by the nothing

1:24:38

drop boxes. not high profile rom, high quality or

1:24:41

anything like that. I mean that, but I but

1:24:43

it's I'm. I'm just confused about

1:24:45

what their role might be. The guy was confused

1:24:47

about what Citrix his role was in the face

1:24:49

of cyber V and remote desktop or whatever. and.

1:24:52

Is located episodes in

1:24:54

Subsonic Monopoly. And

1:24:57

males that's generally a instances for the

1:24:59

median. Bigger the other part of Whale

1:25:01

of Indices isn't This is an embrace.

1:25:04

The. Easiest way for you to get used to

1:25:06

follow dropbox to them to wonder. Yeah.

1:25:10

I know that yeah that like

1:25:12

a drop boxes the earth. That.

1:25:14

The data repatriation service of efforts

1:25:16

are you at, maybe I that's,

1:25:19

and I know I'm sure both

1:25:21

of them have reasons for doing

1:25:23

this. Obviously and Microsoft side

1:25:25

it makes that you want to partner with these

1:25:27

companies and be like say we have a healthy

1:25:29

to have been healthy ecosystem We we missed resulted

1:25:32

people migrating away from the very easily area is

1:25:34

that the Imperial March or here playing the background

1:25:36

Such and. Such a spotify

1:25:38

playlist. Sorry about that. He's.

1:25:40

An actor as I was informed yes, the

1:25:42

other. Hand Barbara.

1:25:47

And indices discounted them topic by that's

1:25:50

kinda neat because ah, but the pirates.

1:25:52

A year or so ago get tub

1:25:54

announced they were gonna start migrating the

1:25:56

Earth contributors, com contributors and serviced to

1:25:59

effect. They had his goal they had

1:26:01

set up for the end of Twenty Twenty Three. They

1:26:04

started with the high profile a user's

1:26:06

as I make sense the governmental big

1:26:08

companies you know the something like were

1:26:10

risk is really high and I'm not

1:26:13

surprisingly they this was enormously successful. I

1:26:15

think part of the reason it was

1:26:17

was they at midstream to this implemented

1:26:19

pasties and their implementation of passes Tuesday

1:26:22

might be one of the best. A

1:26:24

it's it's really really well done. In.

1:26:27

Fact: A pass key usage has take

1:26:29

overtaken other forms of web. Ah, spaced.

1:26:31

To. Say it did happen very quickly

1:26:34

understand that way for longtime first ever

1:26:36

since. Sms uses

1:26:38

his drop off. They're also trying to get. People.

1:26:41

To adopt multiple to have a

1:26:44

methods weather's pesky securities cetera. But

1:26:47

the sit, the numbers are. where's the numbers? And

1:26:49

Ninety Five percent. While. Often

1:26:51

rate across all we can old for this adult

1:26:53

country resent Really good. They

1:26:56

are they trying out like as had multiple

1:26:58

to have a methods including more secure methods

1:27:00

On one point from million of the customers

1:27:02

have adopted Task is. On.

1:27:05

It's. Just. Another don't great and

1:27:07

a lot senselessly going great. So I headed

1:27:09

Giant right. And

1:27:12

speaking. Of by the way, the peptides or

1:27:14

that accompanies my article is a great example of how

1:27:16

you get something right, which is. Why

1:27:18

companies offer you this to have a

1:27:20

thing? And as a typical person that

1:27:22

developers are technical obviously. but then when

1:27:24

obscurity experts. You kind of

1:27:26

click through like okay but never did you

1:27:29

save your recovery, the gas and and then

1:27:31

I'm what they do as a prompt everyone

1:27:33

who enables any form of to have a

1:27:35

they actually come back and prompt you twenty

1:27:37

eight let and soliciting should celebrate. Much.

1:27:40

Get upset and us were really smart

1:27:42

like I think they've just and things

1:27:44

right. Also I have to say excellent

1:27:47

pasties, integration and on of you guys

1:27:49

use task is we have to have

1:27:51

but it's the magazine. Step is the

1:27:53

most simplest. It's beautiful. It's a work

1:27:55

of art. I was no

1:27:58

evidence. It's,

1:28:00

yeah, no, even Google, which I

1:28:02

lauded early on now, I

1:28:05

would say they've completely bought this. Like

1:28:07

I get these weird, they

1:28:10

default to a passkey prompt on

1:28:13

like a new computer, but then it's like this multi-step or would you

1:28:15

bring up a camera and you can picture, blah, blah, blah, and it's

1:28:18

like, guys, I have a code in

1:28:20

an app. Could I

1:28:22

just do the code thing and then you can

1:28:24

save the passkey to the computer? Like I don't

1:28:26

make me do it on the first one. It's just too

1:28:28

many steps, but GitHub gets

1:28:30

it right. So you could use your password

1:28:33

and log in and use the

1:28:35

passkey as to a fail. If you were a

1:28:37

commoner. Sign in and since I'm using, oh,

1:28:39

I have to unlock my, because

1:28:42

you're using it, but is that Dashlane or BitWand?

1:28:44

BitWand. So it's a beauty thing because

1:28:46

I can, it's in there, right. Yeah, it goes

1:28:48

to all my platforms. This could be

1:28:51

like you brought up a new computer, a new browser,

1:28:53

all you've done is sign into your password manager, the

1:28:55

passkey saved there, you don't type anything

1:28:57

to get into that. Isn't that great? Oh, it's

1:28:59

beautiful. It's the best. I

1:29:01

really love it. That combination is just classic.

1:29:04

So, and I think maybe that contributes a little

1:29:06

bit too to the uptake

1:29:08

of 2FA because people want to try passkeys. You

1:29:10

got to get, I'm sure they, look, all the

1:29:12

companies that make password managers, all the companies in

1:29:14

the FIDO alliance, et cetera, they know this stuff

1:29:17

is hard. They're like, we got to get this

1:29:19

right. You know, we got to, and

1:29:21

we get to get the user experience right. And

1:29:23

you see like this wide range of those experiences,

1:29:25

depending on the app, the service, whatever. And most

1:29:28

of them are kind of garbage, you know, frankly. And I think

1:29:30

that's why people are like, who's the number two goal? If you

1:29:32

know, it's like, well, you know, if you get it right, it

1:29:34

will take off. Yeah. And I

1:29:36

think GitHub, still to me is the shining example. I've

1:29:40

got to believe, hopefully they publish their implementation so this

1:29:42

can follow it. Yes.

1:29:47

So actually they do have a resource for other, yeah,

1:29:50

actually it's in my own, right? They should be open source,

1:29:52

right? Well, I don't know that

1:29:54

they did it that way, but there's a resource for like,

1:29:56

if you want to understand how to do this in your

1:29:58

organization, we have like a resource. for that. Like

1:30:01

do what we did but do it for you. Like that. Right.

1:30:05

Right. Practices and whatnot. You know,

1:30:08

number one, don't be afraid. Afraid.

1:30:11

Ladies and gentlemen, you are in

1:30:13

luck. Oh, still logging in.

1:30:17

You are listening to the- It's a

1:30:19

terrific experience. Well, it's just because I haven't

1:30:21

logged in a bit, weren't yet. You

1:30:23

are listening to the best darn show about

1:30:25

Microsoft there is in the universe. Wow.

1:30:29

Well, we haven't checked it out past Alpha

1:30:31

Centauri but- Yeah, I feel comfortable with it

1:30:33

though. In nearby. In some way that like

1:30:35

the NFL is the world champions. We are

1:30:37

the champions. That's right. We're

1:30:39

the world champions of Microsoft. Yeah.

1:30:41

Yeah. Paul Tharott, he's on your

1:30:43

left. Richard Campbell's on your right.

1:30:46

And we are glad you're here.

1:30:49

It's- get ready, fasten your

1:30:51

seatbelts. It's almost AI time.

1:30:54

Hm. Hm. The

1:30:56

future is a hefty responsibility and not

1:30:58

one that we take lightly. But then taking

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Illinois. AI

1:31:58

time begins. I

1:32:00

never asked for another cup of my

1:32:02

AI. I'd like another cup. Please, Paul.

1:32:06

I can't remember if they announced this

1:32:08

officially, but Bloomberg, very

1:32:10

reliable at least, said that the European

1:32:12

Commission has looked at the Microsoft OpenAI

1:32:14

partnership and has decided not to formally

1:32:16

investigate it. Interesting. Yeah,

1:32:20

and I can't say I

1:32:22

have an opinion on that. Other

1:32:24

than noting that of the big

1:32:26

box regulators, the FTC

1:32:29

and the DOJ in the United States, and I guess I'll

1:32:31

include the UKC in this list, I trust

1:32:33

these guys the most in the sense that they seem to get it right. So

1:32:37

it's fine. I think we discussed this. You've

1:32:39

got to look at it. It's kind of weird. It's

1:32:43

big money, too. And

1:32:45

it seems like it was

1:32:47

specifically designed to end run around

1:32:49

the regulations or the regulators that would have

1:32:51

been on them if they tried to acquire

1:32:54

OpenAI. It may be as simple

1:32:56

as OpenAI. It doesn't matter how much money

1:32:58

you have. We're not doing it. But

1:33:00

it just looks weird. It's

1:33:03

a unique partnership. And

1:33:06

it does have to try and broaden that. They've

1:33:09

signed on with all kinds of other AI. Oh, my god.

1:33:11

Yeah. It's ludicrous. And I

1:33:13

think that's part of it. It's like at some point you say, is

1:33:16

this still a unique relationship? Do we really want

1:33:18

to fight this fight? What's here?

1:33:21

Right. Yeah,

1:33:24

honestly, this next story in some ways and

1:33:26

they don't have control.

1:33:28

They have a non-voting seat. They

1:33:30

have an observer seat. But they don't

1:33:33

control the company. Although when Sachi got

1:33:35

angry, everybody stopped. We do

1:33:37

have that suspicion of

1:33:39

a grime or worm tongue style

1:33:41

relationship there. But I

1:33:44

think he's got the button. He's like, I could

1:33:46

drop Azure. Then what do you got? That's

1:33:50

true. Don't make me cancel

1:33:52

your account. You

1:33:55

could probably get wound up on AWS. But how quick is

1:33:57

it going to be? Yeah, that's a good question. Those

1:34:01

exfil fees are going to be serious. How many

1:34:03

terabytes do you need to move? That's

1:34:06

true. Yeah. You thought it was

1:34:08

bad moving between Chrome OS and Microsoft 365. Watch

1:34:11

this. I

1:34:18

don't know how I'm going to handle this kind of thing. I've

1:34:21

started writing about a lot of the SLM, LLM

1:34:23

releases as they occur, but what I've discovered is

1:34:25

that one occurs approximately every 36 hours, and I'm

1:34:27

not sure if I have the time or inclination

1:34:29

to keep doing this. In

1:34:33

this vein, Microsoft, and I think

1:34:35

tied to the previous story too, were in a sense that they

1:34:37

kind of want to show that they can be independent as well.

1:34:40

As yesterday, I think, yesterday

1:34:43

released an SLM as I called it. No

1:34:45

one else was calling it this at the time, but it is

1:34:48

an SLM. Small language model. Small

1:34:52

language model. The

1:34:58

weirdness of this, because I cover news

1:35:00

and I specifically cover AI stuff, is

1:35:02

there were no Microsoft announcements. Right.

1:35:05

There was none. Now, by the way, as

1:35:07

of this moment, there are. 12

1:35:09

or 15 hours later, they finally posted some stuff. But

1:35:12

at the time, all that Microsoft officially posted

1:35:14

was an academic white paper, which

1:35:16

I can tell you, fascinating reading. You'll

1:35:18

love it. It's almost as good as the Lord

1:35:20

of the Rings. You need an app. This is the way. Yeah.

1:35:23

It's brutal. Even the font was designed to put you to

1:35:25

sleep. It's crazy. What they

1:35:28

did do was they reached out to

1:35:30

every mainstream news organization on Earth to

1:35:32

see who would bite. Right.

1:35:34

And they all did. Like the New

1:35:36

York Times wrote a 2500 word article

1:35:38

about how Microsoft is bringing language models

1:35:41

down to the phone, which

1:35:43

not to be a jerk about it, is

1:35:45

what everyone is doing. There is nothing unique

1:35:48

about this at all. Now,

1:35:51

in some slice of time, the

1:35:53

claim they make, which is a very common claim for this kind of

1:35:55

thing, is that they're seeing the

1:35:58

performance, reliability, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

1:36:00

blah, blah, blah, whatever of GPT

1:36:02

3.5, which we all know is like an older LLM

1:36:05

that runs on the clock. It works pretty well.

1:36:07

Especially on a narrow day. It works pretty well.

1:36:09

And for something like that on the phone, whatever

1:36:11

device, yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. It's

1:36:14

excellent. The problem is everyone's doing this. Everyone,

1:36:16

and anyone who makes language models is doing this exact thing.

1:36:19

And every single time one of these things

1:36:21

is announced, the claims are always the same.

1:36:24

They do that comparison depending on what type of

1:36:27

language model it is. If

1:36:29

it's an LLM, the target is

1:36:31

always chat GPT, sometimes Gemini of

1:36:33

whatever stripe. If

1:36:35

it's an SLM, we're going after

1:36:37

the previous version of chat

1:36:39

GPT. This

1:36:42

is the comparison. Because AI is moving so fast. To

1:36:45

me, the story here was not that

1:36:47

Microsoft released another SLM, but rather that

1:36:49

the way

1:36:51

they were like, how do we not get lost

1:36:54

in the news cycle? Because when a

1:36:56

day goes by, and by the way, a day went by

1:36:58

and another one was announced, I don't know if it was

1:37:01

meta or somebody announced another one and I didn't

1:37:03

look. I will because I can't

1:37:05

help myself, but I bet it's better than the

1:37:07

same thing that Microsoft released yesterday because it's a

1:37:09

day later, but whatever. That doesn't matter. How would

1:37:11

you even bench that? How do you know? Well,

1:37:13

just based on their, in other words, I would

1:37:15

compare how they say how much it is or

1:37:17

is not better than something, something, and then see

1:37:19

where I can compare. Because,

1:37:22

look, it's only been doing this for two weeks and

1:37:25

I can already tell you it's the same thing over and over again.

1:37:28

Bravo to Microsoft. They got into Reuters. They

1:37:30

got into New York Times. Normal

1:37:33

people reading a paper, well, normal people don't

1:37:35

read a paper, but normal people reading those

1:37:37

publications wherever they do it on their iPad

1:37:39

or whatever would have seen a story and

1:37:42

maybe thought because who knows? They don't know

1:37:44

anything about this business. Like oh

1:37:46

my God, there's been an advance. It's

1:37:48

like no, there hasn't. Yeah,

1:37:52

so the five stuff, I'm

1:37:54

assuming that is how you pronounce it, is

1:37:57

one of many examples of Microsoft flexing

1:37:59

that. But look, this

1:38:01

has nothing to do with open AI. You

1:38:03

know? I think it's smart, but

1:38:06

also this is a move

1:38:08

towards right sizing, right? Like I would

1:38:10

be way more worried that we were

1:38:12

still humming up this peak of

1:38:14

inflated expectations if they were talking

1:38:17

about a GPT-5 coming out. Because

1:38:20

where are you going to get to take that? Like

1:38:23

you've already indexed, you've indexed

1:38:25

8chan now? You think that's going to

1:38:27

make it better? Like you've already indexed

1:38:29

everything you can. There isn't another exponentially

1:38:31

larger data set to be had. My

1:38:34

favorite data story, which is now over 25

1:38:36

years old, was Jim Gray was still alive

1:38:38

working on the SQL stuff at Microsoft, that

1:38:40

genius. And they

1:38:43

created something called the Terra server to show off

1:38:45

SQL Server 7, which was the first in-house version

1:38:47

of Microsoft's database. The previous ones were based on

1:38:49

sign base. And to prove

1:38:51

the prowess of this thing, they had to come up with

1:38:54

some gigantic data set. What were they going to use? So

1:38:56

someone came up with the idea, well, there are

1:38:59

these companies, or the countries, rather that at the

1:39:01

time, it was not companies, it was countries that

1:39:03

have satellites and they map the Earth. And

1:39:05

we could go to them, we'll go to the United States, I'll be the best one, and

1:39:08

we'll get all of their geolocation data

1:39:10

and we'll map the world, we'll call

1:39:12

it Terra server. So they went to the US

1:39:14

government, they got it, and the US government said

1:39:16

you can have everything but the United States. And

1:39:19

they're like, okay. And then they went to the Russian government and they said, hey,

1:39:21

we're doing this thing. And I said, you can have everything except for Russia. They're

1:39:23

like, cool, now we have the whole world. So they

1:39:25

combined that data and that

1:39:27

data took up on hard drives in

1:39:30

a data center, something that was the

1:39:32

size of a cape house,

1:39:34

like it was humongous. And

1:39:36

I got to walk through it. It was like a

1:39:39

scene from Mission Impossible. Today, independent companies,

1:39:41

Google Maps, blah, blah, blah, but whatever, it's

1:39:43

nothing. So how

1:39:45

do you get data? What's the version

1:39:47

of that today? I don't

1:39:50

know, every star in the sky, every space,

1:39:53

bus, spec in the space, I don't

1:39:55

have no idea. I don't know where you

1:39:57

go from here. Yeah. I don't know how you

1:39:59

scale up. And I think that's the thing is they're

1:40:01

not trying now. Now they're right sizing. They were saying, hey,

1:40:03

when we try and be the everything, we have more problems.

1:40:06

And so now narrowing the scope and

1:40:09

sharpening the confidence

1:40:12

numbers to say, if you're below 85, you

1:40:14

don't know. That's

1:40:17

right. And actually the Microsoft, the SLM

1:40:19

story, which is kind of walled by,

1:40:21

um, kind of plays

1:40:23

into this because I think one of the

1:40:25

competitive concerns for Microsoft has got to be

1:40:27

that Google and, uh,

1:40:30

and, or, uh, Google, Google and yeah, sorry, Google and

1:40:33

Apple both have these own platforms. These are the mainstream

1:40:35

kind of computing platforms for people. They're probably going to

1:40:37

continue to be that, you know, in the future, a

1:40:40

lot of that stuff's going to run on device, but

1:40:42

they're going to do something in the cloud. Google has

1:40:44

their own thing. Apple doesn't. So the people, the companies

1:40:46

are lining up. How does a company

1:40:48

like Microsoft kind of break into this space? And

1:40:51

honestly, I think it's going to be, I'm going to call this

1:40:53

vertical use cases for lack of a better term. Their,

1:40:56

uh, models, their SLMs, this thing or other

1:40:58

things, whatever, there'll be one that's really good

1:41:00

at something. And another that's really good at

1:41:02