0:00

Hey, what's going on everybody? Welcome to

0:03

another episode of What Now? My

0:06

name is Trevor Noah, and this is

0:08

the podcast where we chat about interesting

0:10

things with interesting people who hopefully

0:12

have interesting things to say. This

0:14

week's a really fun and cool episode because the

0:17

Grammys just happened and I was lucky enough to

0:19

host it. So we're going

0:21

to chat everything Grammys. Why do

0:23

people win? Who should win? And

0:26

all the drama with Jay-Z and Taylor

0:28

Swift. Oh, drama!

0:41

This is What Now with Trevor Noah.

1:00

Okay, but if we're recording, everybody ready?

1:02

Has anyone else got like loads of background noise in

1:04

their ears or is it just me? It may

1:06

be that my fridge where I keep my breast milk.

1:09

Let me unplug it. I'm not even fucking joking. I

1:12

think it is me. Oh yeah, it is. Let

1:15

me pull the plug. I think she's going to move

1:17

it to another fridge. Breast milk is so resilient, guys.

1:20

Breast milk is so resilient. I'm telling you, I

1:22

can tell you all about the qualities of breast

1:24

milk. It's actually good for skincare. Good for skincare

1:26

health. During the strike, I was like, do I

1:28

have to start selling my breast milk to bodybuilders

1:31

to make some extra money? I consider this. That's

1:33

a very real thing. For the skin or their

1:35

muscles? Their muscles, breast milk. Like, bodybuilders really like

1:37

breast milk. See,

1:39

Josh knows. Yeah, you can

1:42

get really ripped off some breast milk. You

1:44

know, there are many ways to start a conversation. Breast

1:48

milk is easily the last one I would have

1:50

thought we would start. Normally we'd start with like,

1:52

hi, hello. I mean, I

1:54

love this because it makes it interesting. Welcome

1:57

to breast milk. If someone is just listening now, they wonder

1:59

if this is the best. beginning of the podcast. They're like,

2:01

wait, I'm sorry, what, what did I mean? You didn't miss

2:03

anything. This is exactly how it started. Yeah.

2:06

I'm turning into a lactivist, basically. I'm

2:08

a bit of a lactologist. Hey, I'm

2:10

all for it. I'm pro the breast milk. But,

2:12

uh, happy podcast day, everybody.

2:14

How you all feeling? How's everybody

2:17

doing? Happy podcast day. I'm doing

2:19

pretty good. I'm good. Congrats on

2:21

the Grammys, Trevor. You're amazing. Yeah,

2:23

great job, man. Thank you so

2:25

much. I should pass the congratulations

2:27

along to my executive producer and

2:29

captain, Winston. Congratulations, sir. Another Grammys.

2:31

Congrats. Yeah, great job, man. Oh,

2:34

look at all this self-congratulation. No,

2:36

no, no, it's about you. Can

2:39

I tell you, there are a few gigs I've done

2:41

in my life that are more stressful than the Grammys.

2:43

Like, it's exciting. It's fun. But

2:47

I don't know of any other shows I do where

2:50

messing up will

2:52

have such... It's not just

2:54

the ramifications from the fans, but it's like, I

2:57

don't know if I could ever listen to Beyoncé's

2:59

music again if I screwed up

3:01

in front of Beyoncé. Does that make sense? Like, I'd

3:03

always think of her now. Oh, yeah. You know what

3:05

I'm saying? It's like, it's too much

3:07

stress. Like, these are all the people who are... Like,

3:09

you know, there's a soundtrack to your life and now

3:11

you're going to mess up and then, like, you know,

3:13

like imagine Lana Del Rey just shaking her head at

3:15

you while you walk out of the venue. What

3:18

I want to know, I saw today on the... I was

3:20

looking at some photographs and there was like a photo of

3:23

you and Beyoncé just like chatting like old

3:25

friends. When did you become like best friends

3:27

with Beyoncé? How did that happen? I would

3:29

never say that. I've never become best friends

3:32

with Beyoncé, but I do have an amazing

3:34

story. The Emmys was a bunch

3:36

of weeks ago. I've lost track of time.

3:38

I was flying in and I needed

3:41

to get my hair done. Now, my

3:44

hairstylist doesn't have the salon that she was working

3:46

at. I couldn't find a place to get my

3:48

hair done. It's a Sunday. Nothing was working. Nothing

3:50

was open. So I asked my hairstylist, Erin, I

3:53

said, Hey, can we figure out something? She goes,

3:55

Let me see. Let me see if I can

3:57

figure this out. She sends me

3:59

a text. And she says, Hey, Trevor, Beyonce

4:02

said we can use

4:04

her private hair studio if you

4:07

need to. So

4:09

I go, which Beyonce? Because I don't want to ask

4:11

you. I mean, you know what I mean? It's like

4:13

Beyonce. This is no, because this is not my life.

4:16

I'm honest. This is not my life. She goes,

4:18

Beyonce. I don't have Beyonce's number. I don't even know Beyonce like

4:20

that. I'm not going to claim it. So

4:23

she goes, yeah, Beyonce, Beyonce. So I'm like,

4:25

OK, what does this mean? She says, here's

4:28

an address. Just go there and Beyonce is going

4:30

to hook you up. And so

4:32

I drive to an address in the middle of L.A. I

4:34

don't even know where this place really is. It's

4:37

a nondescript. I walked past the entrance

4:39

five times. There's no windows. There's

4:42

no doors. There's no nothing. You basically knock on a

4:44

panel almost like like Harry Potter, like that platform

4:46

and three quarters thing. The

4:49

door opens up. There's a whole haircare

4:52

laboratory. And they

4:54

go, ah, Trevor, welcome. Beyonce

4:56

told us to expect you. And I

4:58

go in there and my hairstylist is waiting inside. And

5:01

then she basically hooks me up with like

5:03

some secret product that Beyonce uses, I guess.

5:07

Wow. I love that. Yeah. Is

5:11

that why you won? Is that why

5:13

you won the Emmy? I wouldn't be shocked, my friend.

5:16

It's good luck. Yeah. So I went

5:18

I went to say thank you to Beyonce for saving my hair, which

5:20

is a really crazy conversation I never thought

5:22

I would have in my entire life. I

5:25

never thought I'd have anything to say to

5:27

Beyonce, let alone thank you for saving my

5:29

hair, Beyonce. So that's the conversation

5:31

we had. And we just talked about hair and

5:33

how stressful it can be and you know,

5:35

how the right products can can save the day.

5:37

Look at that. Wow. That

5:40

was a conversation. That's amazing. Did you watch Josh?

5:43

You only watch like UFC. Did you even watch the Grammys? And you don't have to

5:45

lie because we're friends. No, no, no. I did

5:47

watch a good portion of the Grammys, but I watched a

5:49

lot of it in clips as it was happening. I mean,

5:51

that's how most people watch these days. Yeah. Exactly

5:53

what you mean about the whole like if you

5:56

mess up in front of a person, it changes

5:58

how you. taken their stuff.

6:00

Yeah, you know like because I okay, I

6:02

think I may have even told you about

6:04

this when it happened. I met Colin Kaepernick

6:07

very briefly. No, you didn't tell me this.

6:09

Oh, yeah, yeah. I met Colin Kaepernick. We

6:11

were passing by each other. And this is

6:13

before I got my twists in. And

6:15

so I had an afro. He had an afro

6:17

and I was pretty starstruck. I'm not gonna lie.

6:20

And so I was just like, Oh, yeah, you

6:22

and me and I just pointed to our hair.

6:24

And he was like, Yeah. And

6:27

then he kept walking. And then I

6:29

waited for my Uber. And

6:31

every Nike commercial after that, where I

6:34

saw Colin Kaepernick, I was like, Ah,

6:37

I botched it. Here's

6:40

the thing. If you make a fool of yourself in

6:43

front of a stranger, who where

6:45

where will you be reminded of them? You know

6:47

what I mean? You screw up in front of

6:49

somebody you're gonna see all the time. That's, that's

6:51

stress. I'm not gonna lie. I started leaning

6:54

on the conservative side. I was like, Get this

6:56

man off a tee. Oh,

7:01

man. But it was good. Ben, how are you feeling? I

7:04

feel like you don't even get tired. I'm exhausted. I am.

7:06

I'm running on on nothing. No, I was

7:09

tired. I was I was like, this sounds

7:11

really pathetic. But I was more like emotionally

7:13

tired. Yeah, yeah. I like work on that

7:15

show for like, four months. And then the

7:17

last three or four weeks, it just becomes

7:20

intense. And then the last few days, it's

7:22

even more intense. And then the

7:24

last hour before the show is the worst of

7:26

all of it. Because that's when like everything that

7:28

you've been planning for a year falls apart. Because

7:30

like artists aren't showing up. And I mean, it's

7:33

in my office before the show starts.

7:35

For the last two years, I've done I've

7:37

run the Grammys for four years now. For

7:39

the last two years, that

7:41

half an hour before we've gone live, I

7:44

would say without question, are the two

7:46

most stressful half hours of my entire

7:48

life, those half hours, like that's it,

7:50

like just the stuff that comes in.

7:53

And you just feel like you're sinking on a ship

7:55

that you've been building for months. That's what the Mariah Carey

7:57

got picked up in a in a golf cart. Is that

7:59

real? like on the freeway? A hundred percent

8:01

real. So we had a demonstration that was

8:03

going on in the area that was blocking

8:06

all the cars from getting in. And

8:08

so a lot because it was also at the storms.

8:11

So we had we have one artist who

8:13

went out to the red carpet and

8:16

and had taken a wrong turning

8:18

and now was trapped and couldn't get back in.

8:20

And they were in like the beginning of the

8:22

show. And then Sizzler had gone

8:24

to get her glam done at a hotel locally

8:26

after Dress Run. She couldn't get back. She was

8:29

in part two. So it's a

8:31

House of Cards that show like the set.

8:33

We time it. How long it takes to

8:35

take down Tracy Chapman's set and

8:37

put up Sizzler's set. We know it's exactly like

8:39

eight minutes. We time that. So it's not like

8:41

we can push her later in the show. Then

8:43

we get told that our presenters, Mariah Carey, is

8:45

presenting the first award. There's no way she was going

8:47

to be there. Casey Margegraves, Lizzo,

8:50

Christina Aguilera, all of them not in

8:52

the building. And it's four, 48. It

8:55

was just an absolute nightmare. So we got Patrick Mendes and

8:57

our head of talent at Coe P of the show. Got

9:00

a guy in a golf cart, which is God's honest truth,

9:03

to drive the wrong way down the 405,

9:06

literally wrong way down the freeway, down what in England we

9:08

call the hard shoulder, as in the thing on the... Is

9:10

that what you call it in America as well, the hard

9:12

shoulder? Josh, what do you call it? What do you call

9:14

that out here? I don't reference it at all. OK,

9:16

so the bit that you're not allowed

9:18

to drive in. They drove the golf cart over

9:21

a mile, got Mariah Carey out

9:24

of her SUV, stuck

9:26

umbrellas to either side of it so she

9:28

wouldn't get soaked. And I'm literally, while you're

9:30

doing your jokes, Trevor, I'm trying not to

9:32

stretch out, because I'm in your ears the

9:34

whole time, right? And I'm going, no way.

9:37

Take your time, take your time. Oh, Taylor's

9:39

just... Trevor is, I have to tell him, I have

9:41

to give him his props here. He's unbelievable

9:43

at taking information live in your ear. But

9:45

I was slowing you down because Mariah Carey

9:47

was not ready yet. She walked through that

9:49

golf cart, up that back, and you went

9:51

and literally you hit it, and they went,

9:54

Mariah is ready. And you went, time for

9:56

our first award. Oh my God. We

10:00

had another 13 parts to go. It's

10:03

like by the end of it I

10:05

just want to like curl up in a ball and

10:07

like sleep. Oh Can I

10:09

ask you a question then Ben anything? Okay

10:12

So do you think that some of

10:14

the logistics and some of the stuff

10:16

that makes it so stressful is because?

10:19

Everyone is so a list like a

10:21

plus plus I'm I'm not advocating for

10:23

myself specifically But I am depressingly available

10:26

if you ever need anything I could

10:28

be there on reserve Well,

10:30

I'll have you anytime that means a lot, but

10:33

I reckon it is a bit like that

10:35

I mean, what do you think Trevor in that

10:37

room? It's like walking around Madame Tussauds It's

10:39

unbelievable, but I think also everybody thinks they are

10:41

Beyonce so therefore the issues of like dressing

10:43

rooms and like who gets what and

10:45

what time you're on and Rehearsal time.

10:47

Yeah, you are dealing with absolute a

10:50

list stars and it's also a big

10:52

night for them because it's the Grammys

10:54

So it matters to them. Yeah, the

10:56

biggest things I noticed is the

10:58

difference between the Grammys and all other award

11:00

shows is the Grammys is full of artists

11:02

most artists live in a world where they're

11:04

never told no and they work

11:06

with people who Essentially worship

11:09

them and then they've got fans and they've

11:11

got like they are Everyone who's

11:13

sitting there is the number one person in their lives

11:15

Whereas if you do like let's say you're at the

11:17

Emmys or the Oscars or any of those Yeah, you've

11:19

got superstars But a lot of the people are used

11:21

to being you know Number three on a

11:23

call sheet or they're not the star of the

11:25

movie there or cameo and they know what it's

11:28

like to Be a co-star. They know everyone

11:30

at the Grammys is full-on

11:32

a list like Everyone

11:35

were you taking it back by

11:37

Jay-Z speech, which I have opinions

11:39

on who we think about that

11:42

The most Grammys never won album

11:44

of the year. That doesn't work You

11:47

know some of you Some

11:49

of you gonna go home tonight and feel like you've been

11:51

robbed Some

11:54

of you made it rough Some

11:59

of you don't belong in the category. No,

12:06

when I get nervous, I tell the truth. How

12:09

did you guys feel about that? I mean, I'll

12:12

tell you this much. I didn't expect it. I

12:14

felt a little bit like Mike Myers. Remember when

12:16

Kanye was doing his Oh, it wasn't that Bush

12:18

doesn't care about black people. Because

12:21

I was standing because okay, you got to you

12:23

got to understand this for me. I'm I've just

12:25

presented Jay with the Dr. Dre Award. So I'm

12:27

on stage. I'm standing to the side.

12:29

I'm expecting Jay Z to come up and make a

12:31

speech. And I expect it to be a speech the

12:33

way everyone makes a speech. You reach

12:35

for the stars dream big. This is inspiration.

12:37

Hope for the best. Thank you so much.

12:39

I love you all. Good night. That's what

12:41

I'm expecting. And then Jay gets

12:44

up starts his speech. And there

12:46

are moments where I'm like, am I hearing this

12:49

correctly? Because I'm behind him. You can't really hear

12:51

exactly what I'm like, did he know

12:53

I don't think he said that. And

12:55

people are laughing. I mean, it was it

12:57

was almost like a roast meets a an acceptance

12:59

speech. I liked it, though. I will say that

13:01

I liked it. I like I like it when

13:03

people are honest. I won't lie. I loved it

13:06

so much. I thought that he did the slap

13:09

to everybody. The way that

13:13

we'll slap Chris, he did the slap

13:15

as some of y'all don't even belong

13:17

your category is like, because he's not

13:19

naming names. So it's like, maybe everyone

13:21

here. Yeah, I mean, just in a

13:23

purely human level, I was like, was

13:25

a great husband move. You know, that was

13:27

like, it was good to see him as

13:30

a good husband, especially post lemonade. So I

13:32

was like, good job, Jay sticking up for

13:34

your wife. But then I'm like, why

13:36

don't? Because if I was

13:38

that rich, and I felt you were insulting my

13:40

spouse all the time, I'm staying at home. Like,

13:43

I like that. Well, that was a thing. Like,

13:46

it was an unexpected turn. And I'm like, I

13:48

wonder what's simmering under that. Like,

13:51

you do you still crave the

13:54

approval of this institution that you

13:56

feel not just disrespects you and

13:58

your wife and people like you,

14:00

hip-hop, they don't like why are you there?

14:03

Like that was a contradiction that I couldn't

14:07

really take in. But you know, we're

14:09

all a bundle of contradictions, but I'm

14:11

not showing up. If I feel that

14:13

insulted, maybe again, I'm Nigerian, I get

14:16

insulted all the time and I hold grudges. As I

14:18

say in House of Cards, I don't just hold grudges,

14:21

I nurse them. So I'm not coming

14:23

if you have like overlooked me for

14:25

Album of the Year multiple times. But

14:28

there was a lot going, there was a lot to

14:30

unpack in that moment. I think that he showed up

14:32

because you can only slap in person. You

14:36

know what I mean? Like if this is the

14:38

thing of like, I know you're gonna give me

14:40

my accolades, but I

14:42

want to make it known how you've treated

14:44

my wife, that's something that can only be

14:46

done in person because I think

14:48

there's something that's powerful about your presence.

14:51

Okay, so here's the thing I'll

14:53

say. Jay-Z or anyone for that matter

14:55

who has any type

14:57

of beef with you know, how awards have been

15:00

handed out or what the categories are, which by

15:02

the way is not unique to the Grammys. I

15:04

mean, you know, the Emmys will have this, the

15:06

Oscars will have this, people will complain about what's

15:08

in which category and who gets nominated, etc, etc,

15:10

etc. I think there

15:13

is a strange paradox in that

15:15

on the one hand, you can say

15:17

something by staying away. On the other hand,

15:19

you are complaining so that the thing will

15:21

change because you wish for it to change

15:24

in the future. Do you know what I mean? Because it

15:26

does have legitimacy. It is an institution, it is this, you

15:28

know, it's a strange one because on the one hand you're

15:30

going, I think the Grammys could be

15:32

better. That's why I think he's saying that. But

15:35

on the other hand, you're going, I also

15:39

appreciate the Grammys as a concept. And that's why

15:41

I've come and that's why I always come. The

15:43

two things can be opposite and true at the

15:45

same time. That's what I think. I don't think

15:47

he was as disrespectful to the Grammys as has

15:49

been taken. I really don't like don't forget he

15:51

stood there, him and his wife between them of

15:53

160 Grammys as a couple. So

15:55

he stood there as a real honored guy.

15:57

Listen, I have nothing to do with the

15:59

award. which I'm not even an Academy member, I

16:01

can't vote. I make the TV show with you, Trevor.

16:03

I've done it for the last four years. Of the

16:05

last four years, they've turned up three out of the

16:07

four. The only one they didn't come to

16:09

was the one in Vegas in the COVID year that

16:12

they came, last year they came and this year they

16:14

came. So I think that it matters to them. And

16:16

I think the Grammys and the Recording Academy matters to

16:18

them as an institution. And I think any institution that

16:20

matters to you, you want it to be run right.

16:23

And you care about that. I respect

16:25

that. And I also think fair play to

16:27

the Grammys for not minding him, sort

16:29

of going, you know, speak your whatever you feel. He

16:31

also gave it credit. He said the Black Music Collective

16:33

had done a lot of good work. So

16:36

I think, yeah, he feels like Beyonce should have won

16:38

an album of the year. Which I second, by the

16:40

way. Ben, I'm gonna let you finish.

16:42

I'm gonna let you finish. But I do think Beyonce should

16:44

have won for one of the greatest

16:46

albums of all time. We're

16:49

gonna continue this conversation right after

16:51

this short break. I

17:01

hear something that has often confused me. How

17:05

is it that somebody can win the

17:07

Grammy in like almost every category that

17:09

they're nominated in, except in album of

17:11

the year? I find that strange. I

17:13

also find it strange in like the

17:15

Oscars sometimes where they'll do that. They'll

17:17

say, best picture, best this, or you know

17:19

what I mean. And then they won't win like

17:21

the main one. And I'm like,

17:23

wait, but how did you have the best actors,

17:25

the best directors, the best everything, but it wasn't

17:28

the best movie? I have a take. Go, shoot.

17:30

I think if you think about the Academy

17:32

voter, it's some sound

17:34

engineer who's an audiophile, who cares

17:37

about like the mixing, the mastering,

17:39

how cohesive something is. Oh, yeah.

17:41

And also I think like Grammy

17:43

voters care about artistic purity. And

17:45

they like records where there are

17:47

maximum one or two producers

17:49

and one or two writers. And hip hop's

17:52

issue for them, and I think this

17:54

does come down to like some systemic issues,

17:56

sampling. It's really hard to win

17:58

album of the year. have an album that

18:01

has a ton of samples, a ton

18:03

of producers and a ton of co-writers.

18:06

And Adele, for good or for bad, she's seen as

18:08

like a pure artist because it's just her, a

18:10

guitar and some bloke who has a co-writing

18:12

credit on it. Yeah, that's a valid point

18:14

actually. I'm just looking about the voter. They're

18:16

not engaging with art in the way we are. We're

18:18

like, oh, I was in the

18:20

club and I loved hearing Drunken in line. He's

18:23

like, well, I think the sound engineering on this

18:25

album was great. I only see two credits. Beyonce

18:28

has a lot of credit on her album. I

18:30

never thought about the credits thing, to be honest

18:32

with you. Now that you say that Christiane, I

18:34

wonder if there's just a disconnect in what the

18:36

people are feeling. Like Mikmo said

18:38

this about the hip hop category in general.

18:40

He said Grammys has never liked street hip

18:42

hop and he may be right. The thing

18:44

that people like in the streets may

18:47

not match up with the people's

18:49

purists ideas or the, you know,

18:51

if you're an expert in it or if you

18:53

work in like really in depth with it, maybe

18:56

it's maybe you see it differently. I can see

18:58

that. Yeah. And like Best New

19:00

Artist is another category. I remember one year, I

19:02

think it was Esperanza Spalding who won. Yeah.

19:05

Like the public weren't thinking about her, right?

19:07

But the Grammy voter that listens to a

19:10

certain type of music is like, I love

19:12

the musicianship. She's like a

19:14

classically trained jazz musician. No, she's phenomenal. They're

19:16

going to vote for her even though she

19:18

probably doesn't have like the pop cultural sensibility.

19:21

And I think Beyonce is too

19:23

mass for the Academy

19:26

voter. And that is, that's the part

19:28

of the reason why she just isn't going to get the

19:30

votes. Yeah. I

19:32

think they're the Electoral College and we're like

19:35

the popular vote and the Academy

19:38

of the Electoral College and they're always going to go in

19:40

a direction that you don't expect. I mean,

19:42

Megan Thee Stallion won it. Best New Artist four years ago.

19:44

Victoria Monet won it. This year, Samara

19:46

Joy won it and Olivia Rodrigo won it. Those

19:48

are the four. And interestingly, of

19:50

the best new artists, only one of them you

19:53

would go is pop. Yeah. So

19:55

it's interesting how it's quite varied. Last year's an

19:57

out and out jazz artist, Samara Joy. I got upset

19:59

that the. conversation last year became

20:01

so much about Beyonce not winning

20:03

album of the year and Harry

20:05

beating her because I think Samara

20:07

Joy is maybe one

20:10

of the most important black jazz

20:12

singers of her generation. And it's

20:14

like no one even cares because everyone's like Beyonce

20:16

who I do love but I think like her

20:18

oversized impact means that we think she has bigger

20:20

problems than she actually has and I'm like I

20:23

think it's a bigger problem that Samara Joy is

20:25

like the future of music and we're not even

20:27

talking about her win and it's just like we

20:29

just glided past it and we're talking about this

20:31

quote unquote injustice of Beyonce losing which is an

20:33

injustice but I don't think it's the only one.

20:35

I'm just caging all of this because I don't want to

20:37

be hired to come and show up at my house because I've got

20:39

two kids and I don't need those problems. It

20:43

really is amazing how in life you

20:45

can have everything but if

20:47

you do not get the thing that you

20:49

want the everything can seem like nothing in

20:52

comparison. It's pretty amazing. Yeah. And I'm not

20:54

saying this just about like let's say Jay-Z

20:56

talking about the Beyonce I just just people

20:58

in general in literally in that moment just

21:01

after it was done I was thinking to myself man it's

21:03

amazing how we can get and

21:06

I mean everything everything

21:09

everything everything I honestly

21:12

find that fascinating. Yeah.

21:14

And look not this is me not running

21:16

a bit on you but this is literally

21:19

like a thing I've talked about with friends

21:21

over and over that I wish for everyone

21:23

that I've told audiences this I'm like

21:25

no matter who you are where you are what your

21:27

life is I hope that like

21:30

two-third of your dreams come true because

21:34

two-thirds is still most so when they

21:37

do the movie of your life that's

21:39

still most things you accomplished a lot

21:41

but not having a third means that

21:44

you can chase things without seeming crazy. I

21:46

like two-thirds actually I was so I got

21:49

the the Apple Vision Pro

21:51

right and it's interesting

21:54

two of my friends got it as well. Three

21:57

of us have these Apple Vision Pros and we're

21:59

comparing notes. and both

22:01

my friends were like, I'm returning them. I

22:03

was like, what happened? They're like, yeah, I just, like,

22:06

I don't know, man. It just doesn't like, I

22:09

thought it would do more of this and I thought it

22:11

would do, and what was amazing to me was seeing how

22:13

they put it on their heads for

22:16

the first hour, they were mesmerizing. You know

22:18

when people, it's almost like when

22:20

you hear these stories of, you know,

22:22

traders, you know, showing people mirrors for the first

22:24

time and them losing them, that was them. They

22:26

were like, I can't believe it. It's like I'm

22:29

in another world. I'm

22:31

on the moon, I'm on the moon. This feels amazing. And

22:33

then an hour later being like, oh, I wish it wasn't

22:35

as heavy. Then I was like, you're on the moon. You

22:38

were on the moon an hour ago. You really felt like

22:40

you were on the moon. And now all

22:42

of a sudden you're complaining to me that

22:44

the thing that makes you feel like you're actually

22:46

on the moon might be a little bit heavy,

22:48

you ungrateful son of a, I couldn't believe that

22:51

these people were saying this shit because I was like,

22:53

yeah, it's a little bit heavy. But

22:55

like, you know what doesn't weigh anything? Nothing, that's

22:57

what doesn't weigh anything. Genuinely, I couldn't believe it. That

22:59

two thirds thing, because I literally told both of them,

23:01

I was like, take it back, take it back and

23:03

allow me to enjoy my Apple Vision. I'm in the

23:06

future right now. Like, I feel like I'm

23:08

literally in the year 4000. There's

23:10

no weight on my face. I take that

23:12

thing off and literally my cheekbones, they don't,

23:14

I'll work my cheekbones. I'll get stronger cheekbones.

23:17

I don't care. And

23:19

it's funny you say that, judge, because like,

23:21

maybe that's even the answer to living a

23:23

happy life, right? Is acknowledging that

23:26

you always have one third of your dreams that

23:28

aren't met and then being happy with the two

23:30

thirds that are. Yeah, that's why some

23:32

of my dreams are just being taller. Things I know

23:34

will never happen. Yeah, well, you can do the taller.

23:36

You can do the shin implant. No,

23:39

no, no. You can do the thick inches. No,

23:41

no. You can do leg lengthening, judge. I'm not

23:43

thick enough for that. What do you mean you're

23:45

not thick enough? If I do that, I will

23:47

snap in half. If I get taller without gaining some

23:49

more weight. You don't need to get bigger, judge. You

23:51

can just get taller. Oh no, that would look

23:53

horrible. I mean, I've actually told a lot of people

23:55

this. Whenever I meet a

23:58

nice tall man, I immediately get up. I'm

24:00

like, you wasting all that height. God

24:03

knew what to ask to make me, because if I was big,

24:05

I'd be a problem. I'd

24:08

be telling everybody what I think. I'd be, ooh.

24:14

Oh, oh, before I forget. Okay,

24:16

what do you think was a bigger

24:18

scandal from the Grammys? And

24:21

I mean, I say scandal. These things will go away

24:23

tomorrow. Was it

24:25

the Jay-Z speech, or

24:27

do you think it was Taylor Swift

24:29

not looking at Celine Dion when she

24:32

got the award? Let

24:34

me tell you, just an African in me,

24:36

you have to greet your elders. It

24:39

wasn't that it was just Celine Dion. It's an

24:41

older woman. I would be like, hello, auntie. Thank

24:43

you. Then you do your speech. I didn't like it.

24:45

So some of my friends were at the Grammys,

24:47

Africans, and they were all saying the same thing.

24:50

They were just like, no, but Trevor, how can, how

24:52

can, no, no, no, no, no. Celine

24:55

Dion. Hold on. To be fair,

24:57

she was excited. She just won Album of the Year. I

24:59

don't think she meant this respect by it in any way.

25:01

I think she was just excited. No, no, no. By the

25:03

way, I'm not saying she meant anything. No, I think she

25:05

was just excited. It sounded, and it looked like they were

25:07

cuddling backstage and all that and getting along. So I don't

25:09

think there was anything un-toward in that. I think she was

25:11

just really excited about winning Hour of the Year. Then it's

25:13

a real cultural thing. In my culture, like I

25:15

couldn't even come downstairs and see my dad and

25:17

not say good morning. Like, it's like a real

25:20

thing to see somebody and not just say, hello.

25:22

Like I walk down the street, I say hello

25:24

to every old person I see. If you're younger

25:26

than me, you're supposed to say hello to me.

25:28

If you're older than me, I say hello to

25:30

you. She didn't greet that lady. She didn't just

25:32

say, just, thank you. Honestly, in those moments, speaking

25:35

from experience humbly, you do black out

25:37

a little bit when it's like a

25:39

major moment. But what I found

25:42

myself wondering is like, do we need our

25:44

stars to be nice? I'm

25:46

not saying she is or isn't. I don't know her

25:48

enough to say she is or isn't. But I'm asking

25:51

the question, do we need these

25:53

people who create things to be nice? When

25:56

I was a child growing up in South Africa and

25:58

we went to the butcher, the butcher wasn't very

26:00

nice. He chucked the meat,

26:02

he weighed the meat, he wrapped it in a bag, he

26:04

gave it to us. All we wanted was good meat, thank

26:06

you very much. When we were

26:08

driving in the street and there was a policeman

26:11

who was guiding the traffic, he wasn't like friendly

26:13

or anything, he was doing his job, he was

26:15

moving things from point A to point B, we

26:17

were like, yeah, whatever. And I'm not even saying

26:19

I'm for this, but I sometimes ask myself the

26:21

question, when did we

26:24

become so obsessed with everyone being

26:26

nice to everyone and everything being

26:28

like smiley, happy? Do we

26:31

need that? Do you remember that campaign

26:33

back in the day, Charles Barkley, he got into like

26:35

a whole bunch of trouble way back in the day

26:37

in his basketball career. And then he

26:40

had a campaign, I think it was a Nike

26:42

campaign, where he came out and

26:44

the whole campaign was, I'm not a role

26:46

model. He was basically like, I'm

26:48

here to dunk the ball and to win

26:50

the game. I'm not a role model. Yeah.

26:52

But maybe it's just that maybe it's the

26:54

expectation clashing up against the

26:57

moment of reality, which again, I'm not saying because

27:00

I also do not want the thrifties coming for me

27:02

because I also have children at my house. Then

27:05

I was on your side of like, people

27:08

are making a lot out of a moment.

27:10

And it's like a moment that we don't

27:12

know everything about. We saw it very quickly.

27:14

And we think we know everything that happened.

27:16

And I just think that that expectation

27:18

is on people who do put out

27:21

positive messages. Yeah, I mean, like this

27:23

impossible platform. Okay, but then why aware

27:25

the society so keen to pull down

27:27

anyone who puts out a positive message

27:29

into society, they try to make us

27:31

be better. Ain't nobody want that Ben. Don't

27:34

be don't be trying to approve me. All

27:36

right. You saw how we did

27:38

it Jesus. I'll

27:47

go anywhere because we got more what now after

27:49

this. Were

27:57

you worried, Trevor, when you started your monologue

27:59

that literally No one who you were making

28:01

jokes about was in the room because everybody

28:03

was stuck outside. Because I was worried for

28:05

you. I was trying to be as relaxed

28:07

as I can. I'm literally in his ear

28:09

going, Trevor, everything's fine. It was

28:12

not fine. Everybody's on their way. I'm

28:14

sounding like a pilot. I'm literally going,

28:16

we are going to go live to

28:18

air in a minute and everybody's on

28:20

their way. So just do

28:23

the jokes and it will be fine. We'll be back with

28:25

you in 30 seconds. Yeah, it was not fine. Tell me

28:27

about it from your perspective. So live

28:29

TV is live. The Grammys

28:31

is weird because everyone's trying to get

28:33

to a venue that isn't particularly easy to get to. LA's

28:36

got terrible traffic. There's flooding and then it's

28:38

like there's tons of security, etc, etc. So

28:41

this is all stressful. In this moment

28:43

in particular, you're about to do something in a

28:45

room where people aren't even sort

28:47

of in yet. You're talking about them and to

28:49

them and they're not there. In

28:52

my head, I'm going, well, ride this thing

28:54

out and then hope for the best. But

28:56

nobody's there. I'm literally scanning the room praying

28:59

that I will see anybody, anybody,

29:01

anybody, anybody in their seats. So you're looking around

29:03

and you're like, oh, thank God, there's Ed Sheeran.

29:06

Oh, thank God. Okay. Okay. There's

29:09

21 Savage. Oh, thank God. All right. Like

29:12

when Meryl Streep came in, I was already a fan of Meryl Streep's

29:15

and now I will fight somebody

29:17

for Meryl Streep now. I will go to bat

29:19

for her. First of all, she's

29:21

Meryl Streep. She didn't need to

29:23

like run in because she was late. This

29:26

is something Meryl Streep does not need to do. She

29:28

ran in. She's going to be in this chair. I can't believe that

29:30

Meryl Streep is here. I really can't believe it. Because I mean, you

29:32

thought I was laying. You thought I was fat. You

29:34

don't have to apologize to me. Meryl Streep.

29:37

Yes. Yeah. It

29:40

means the Grammys is going to win an Oscar.

29:43

Yeah. I don't know how. But

29:45

I'm going to be in this chair. I'm going to be in this chair. I'm

29:47

going to be in this chair. I'm going to be in this chair. I'm going

29:49

to be in this chair. I'm going to be in this chair. I

29:51

don't know how, but we just did it. She

29:54

apologized for being late in a

29:56

really like nice, respectful human way.

29:59

And I was just like. This is Meryl Streep. She was fun with it.

30:01

She played with it. She had a good time with it in

30:04

that moment I was like, okay, everything is gonna be

30:06

okay. And thank you Jesus I think we're gonna get

30:08

through this thing and then I and then I was

30:10

just like, you know, it's fine I was stressed for

30:13

like three minutes two things were genuinely amazed about that

30:15

one is when you got to the Meryl Streep there

30:17

She literally walks in and then when you got to

30:19

the Taylor Swift bit I'm literally hearing

30:21

that she's walking in and it was total coincidence

30:23

that I was crazy a bit about her that

30:26

she is Literally coming in at that moment as

30:28

our parents would say been look at God.

30:30

Look at God Yes,

30:32

Bachete meant to be but the thing was

30:34

I think about that is it's

30:36

the only show that a monologue is done in the

30:39

audience Amongst the people. Yes,

30:41

that is tough because most of the time with

30:43

comedians at the beginning of a show they're on

30:45

a stage They're safe. They've got their prompt us.

30:47

We literally stick you in amongst it. And the

30:50

reason we do it is two reasons first I

30:52

think it's much more of an interesting watch I

30:55

think you walking around that room shows off who's in

30:57

the room But the second reason is the Grammys is

30:59

the most difficult show because you got to clear that

31:01

stage for the next artist So actually we don't have

31:03

space for you on the stage to stand because we're

31:05

getting rid of do a leap of cage and her

31:08

glove Rotating spirally

31:10

thing. So actually I'm just like Trevor. Would

31:12

you mind just doing it in the audience?

31:14

But like there's no award show I've ever

31:16

seen where it's like that and now I

31:18

think that's what people are So a

31:20

certain extent watching for and they did in

31:23

their many millions We're very happy about that

31:25

But like it's cuz you're just like walking

31:27

around and strolling about like a fan but

31:29

also making jokes about them But

31:31

that is a lot of pressure on you

31:33

and very unlike any other stand-up comedian doing

31:35

an award show I I

31:37

both love and hate it. I I

31:39

love it from a from a producer's perspective I see

31:41

why you why you wanted to do it and I

31:44

enjoyed that element of it as a performer I go

31:46

this is it's it's chaos like

31:48

already stage comes with a whole lot of stress Do

31:50

you know how hard it is to deliver a joke

31:52

when you're on a stage to an audience? And now

31:54

you go like no, why don't you be in the

31:57

audience? How about that? Why don't you do that? And

31:59

then why don't you let someone? audience members walk by while

32:01

you're doing it. The moment we hate most in

32:03

a comedy club is when

32:05

the check comes and everyone

32:07

is like looking at the check and trying to

32:09

figure out who pays for which drink and servers

32:12

are walking in, the waiters are handing like

32:14

food and that is the worst

32:17

moment in a comedy club because no one's

32:19

paying attention, nobody's listening

32:21

to what you're saying and then the

32:24

Grammys comes along with Ben Winston and they go

32:26

you should do that but for like

32:28

15,000 people. What about

32:30

that? What did you do with that? One

32:32

of the main things I was really impressed

32:34

with is that when you're doing that sort

32:36

of thing, we're in a new age

32:38

and a lot of people think they could do crowd work

32:40

and it's the same. That's

32:43

some shade. A lot of people

32:46

love like hey, what

32:48

do you do? That job crazy, right?

32:50

But you over here really in Dua

32:52

Lipa face, you really next to

32:56

the person and I don't know,

32:58

I was just like that's a real command of a

33:00

room. It's terrifying. I won't lie to you guys, it's

33:02

terrifying but I do enjoy it and

33:05

I mean I also love the night. I go

33:07

guys, we're not saving

33:10

lives. I do think entertainment is an

33:12

important aspect of life but we're not saving

33:14

lives. We're enhancing them hopefully. So let's have

33:16

fun, let's enjoy it, let's see what happens.

33:20

That's why I even appreciate these moments. I

33:22

appreciate the moments where Jay-Z comes on

33:25

stage and just throws a little spice

33:27

into the pot. Like just man, thank

33:29

you, Jay-Z. Thank you. Like if Jay-Z

33:31

can't do it, who can? Maybe he'll

33:33

inspire more people to do it. You

33:35

know what I mean? This is life.

33:37

It gets people interested, it gets us

33:39

talking, it's like it's entertainment. My

33:41

highlights of the night was still, I like

33:44

that it didn't overshadow things because Tracy Chapman

33:46

was still like the highlights of my life

33:49

and it seems like everyone's night. Oh my

33:51

god, when she got the standing ovation. Yeah.

34:03

Then the directing, the

34:05

producing and that shot of her face where

34:07

it's like the emotion, she looks like she's

34:09

gonna cry. Like it was just, it felt

34:11

like something from a movie. Imagine like we've

34:14

just watched the biopic and 30 years

34:16

later, she's finally getting accolades.

34:19

It was just, I felt it here. That was a beautiful

34:21

moment. Good job guys. Beautiful. It

34:24

was beautiful. Yeah. She's

34:26

number one. I think she was number one on iTunes. Yeah, she is.

34:28

She deserves. She didn't know who were like, who is

34:30

this? And then people who did were like, oh my

34:32

good, this was, it is

34:35

those moments juxtaposed against the other

34:37

moments that make it all

34:39

so beautiful. It's not perfect. It's

34:41

not pristine. It is two thirds

34:43

of what we wanted and one third of what

34:45

we didn't. But you know what? That's

34:48

what makes it so amazing. And

34:50

real quick, actually, you know,

34:52

that's such a great place to cut. You may

34:54

want to cut everything I'm saying, but like I

34:56

do have a quick question because

34:59

you talked about, you know, getting two thirds, not

35:01

getting the third. Is there a

35:03

reason that best rap album wasn't televised?

35:07

I think we'll cut before there, won't we?

35:09

Yeah. No, I mean, that's fine.

35:11

Like I said, I started coming. I

35:14

think you were right at first. Yeah. No,

35:17

I think you were right. Yeah. So

35:19

I have to choose which awards go in the

35:22

show. We only have one for 10. There's

35:25

93 Grammys that are given out every year, and I

35:27

basically choose 10 that I think they could make the

35:29

show. And so I always

35:32

have the four best record album,

35:35

new artist and song. Those

35:37

are like like the big four. And

35:39

then you do country and then you do a Latin.

35:41

That's six. And then I did two pop ones,

35:44

which you do pop album and best

35:46

pop performance, which is quite common to

35:48

do to pop because that's where a

35:50

lot of like the megastars are. And

35:52

usually it's rap album. And

35:54

I decided that I thought we should do

35:56

an R&B award because there were some amazing

35:59

nominees in R&B. and B. There was like

36:01

Coco Jones, there was Victoria Monet, there

36:03

was SZA and I just thought that was a

36:05

really good award. And then because of the Dre

36:07

Award going to Jay-Z, I felt like that was

36:09

a big rap one. And we also had two

36:12

rap performances in Travis Scott and 21 Savage and

36:14

Burna Boys. And last year we did like

36:17

18 minutes of hip hop

36:19

plus that hip hop 50 tribute, which was

36:21

like the show was dominated by it. And

36:23

we had Jay-Z ending it on

36:26

God Did. So I just felt like actually it

36:28

was nice to give R&B a bit of shine.

36:30

That's why there was nothing more to it than

36:32

that. So yeah, R&B song replaced it this year,

36:34

but maybe that was a mistake. I

36:36

don't know. No, I think it was the right decision.

36:38

But hearing a rationale for it Ben, I'm glad you

36:40

said that. Yeah. Josh, why didn't

36:43

you ask about rock album not being televised?

36:45

That's exactly right. Why no rock album? Because

36:47

when I think about how I spend my

36:49

time, it's so much more invested in best

36:51

rap album than it is best rock album.

36:53

I think that's one of the hardest things

36:56

about these kinds of shows is

36:58

that everyone takes for granted that everyone is

37:00

listening to their music and everyone thinks that

37:02

their music is the music that should be

37:04

listened to. I'm also one of

37:06

those people where sometimes I see an artist nominated or

37:08

a category and I'm like, who are these people? And

37:11

it's like, yeah, you just you don't listen to them. But

37:13

does it mean that they're any less deserving of

37:15

the spotlight and that moment? I don't think so.

37:17

By the way, comedy best comedy

37:19

album wasn't screened or televised at

37:22

all. I know. I know. I know.

37:26

I listened to a podcast on the way home last

37:28

night, which probably wasn't a good idea. It was like

37:30

a review of the Grammys and I take it all.

37:32

I worked so hard on it that I actually probably

37:34

shouldn't listen to like review podcasts about it. And they

37:36

were like, oh, hip hop has been overlooked. And I

37:38

was sort of thinking to myself, I

37:40

just don't know how you can look. That is such

37:42

a hip hop fan saying that because if you were

37:44

a country fan right now, you'd go we got one

37:46

performance and that was really Tracy Chapman.

37:48

And I'm not sure you had 100% argue that Tracy

37:51

Chapman is a country artist and Latin didn't get a

37:53

look this year and rock got like two and a

37:55

half minutes from you too. And hip hop gets

37:57

so much love. So I think it is difficult.

37:59

You're right. of it, people speak from their

38:01

own perspectives, my job I think is

38:04

to program that show to do

38:06

the best I can to make sure

38:08

that I have something for everybody, whether

38:11

you're Auntie Margaret in Alabama or

38:13

your cool kid in New York,

38:15

there's something for you. You

38:17

only get a viewing figure for a

38:19

Burner boy if you follow it up

38:21

with a Billy Joel. So I think

38:23

you've got to find that balance so

38:26

that you can actually get audiences for

38:28

these new artists, get people excited by

38:30

Victoria Monet, get people excited by Burner

38:32

boy, get people because they're watching the

38:34

other ones that they come for. I love

38:36

how many rabbit holes or trap

38:38

doors you can fall down with this. Someone

38:40

will go, why wasn't Rap

38:43

Album in the awards? But

38:45

then when you even go into Rap Album, Killer Mike

38:47

wins it. And I don't know if you saw, guys

38:49

in hip hop were like, how the hell can Killer

38:51

Mike win it? Who the

38:53

hell is Killer Mike? Nobody's listening to Killer Mike.

38:55

The streets don't listen to Killer Mike. And then

38:57

guys like Meek Mill were like, the Grammys has

38:59

never appreciated street hip hop. And it's

39:01

so interesting how even in the

39:03

category, rappers themselves are like, you

39:06

do not deserve to be in this category,

39:08

even though you are hip hop and now they're fighting. And

39:11

so at the end of the day, it really just boils

39:13

down to people generally agree

39:15

with the thing that they

39:17

agreed with before it happened.

39:20

And it is very hard for us as people

39:22

to then agree with something that happens when we

39:24

did not think it would or should happen. That's

39:27

one of the hardest things to

39:29

think about. Yeah, people are going to argue and

39:31

go down the rabbit holes all day, I think.

39:33

Yeah. At least people are talking about it, I

39:35

guess. Yeah. At least people had fun.

39:37

I think that, Ben, you did a great job.

39:40

You should pat yourself on the back. Don't listen

39:42

to the haters. You did great in a situation.

39:45

No, just hear me out. In

39:47

a situation where you are making

39:49

an award show that requires voting,

39:51

and this is America, we don't vote well anymore.

39:55

You're right. Absolutely.

40:04

What Now with Trevor Noah is produced

40:06

by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day

40:08

Zero Productions, Fullwell 73

40:10

and Odyssey's Pineapple Street Studios.

40:13

The show is executive produced by Trevor

40:16

Noah, Ben Winston, Jenna Weiss Berman and

40:18

Mary Finkel. Produced

40:20

by Emmanuel Hapsis, Marina Henke,

40:22

Jess Hackle, Natalie Perp and

40:24

Chelsea Williamson. Music, mixing

40:27

and mastering by Hannah Springs. Join

40:33

me next Thursday for a new episode of The

40:35

New Year.