If you’re a podcast fan, you probably devoured Broken Harts, a serialized true crime story about The Hart Family that’s been downloaded more than 11 million times. The podcast stemmed from an investigative report former Glamour editor Justine Harman was working on. Now a freelance writer and podcaster—be on the lookout for her new audio series in January—Justine sits down with Perrie to talk about how fashion can play a role in a woman’s life during the worst circumstance a person can imagine, and why it isn’t always as simple as throwing on a black dress. 

For more on this episode, visit glamour.com/whatiworewhen.

Justine Harman is a writer, podcaster, and Glamour contributor. Her new nonfiction podcast, The Baron of Botox, drops January 14, 2019. Follow her on Twitter @justineharman and on Instagram @justinedc.