0:01

It's Tuesday, February 27th. I'm

0:03

Josie Duffy Rice. And I'm Treville Anderson

0:05

and this is What a Day,

0:07

reminding listeners that if you start

0:09

watching and rewatching Dune Part 1

0:12

now, you'll have plenty of time

0:14

to understand it before Part 2

0:16

comes out on Friday. There's no pressure

0:18

here. You know, nobody has to watch Dune. If they

0:20

don't want to, I don't want to. You

0:22

got something against Zendaya or Timothy

0:24

Chalabay? I'm not a sandworm

0:27

person. On

0:31

today's show, Michiganders head to the polls

0:33

and we hear what issues are driving

0:35

them. I am torn. I don't want

0:38

to see a Trump presidency, but I

0:40

don't want to see this continue to

0:42

happen in Palestine. Plus, speaking

0:44

of, President Biden says a

0:47

ceasefire in the Middle East could come

0:49

by next week. But first,

0:51

let's look at how yesterday's Supreme Court

0:53

hearing on social media content could completely

0:55

upend the online world. That

0:57

issue are two laws championed and passed

1:00

by Republicans, one in Florida

1:02

and another in Texas. They

1:04

both handcuff social media companies from banning

1:06

users based on their viewpoints and

1:09

restrict how they can moderate content in the future.

1:12

Now I would say these companies' track record

1:14

of moderation has been spotty

1:16

at best, right? But

1:19

still, when conservatives passed these laws,

1:21

they were basically arguing that they

1:23

are targeted more often. Of

1:25

course, that is what they were saying.

1:28

They always feel like they target it

1:30

more often. Yeah. If

1:32

these laws were to stand, however, there'd be

1:34

this patchwork between states of how content is

1:36

moderated. Like if I crossed state

1:39

lines from Georgia, where I am now, to

1:41

Florida, Facebook could look totally different. And

1:43

this could kind of transform all kinds of

1:45

conversations. It could really kind of fracture what

1:48

is and isn't allowed. So here's

1:50

Paul Clement, the lawyer arguing on behalf

1:52

of the tech companies. In

1:54

order to provide anything like the service

1:56

that we want to while not engaging

1:59

in viewpoint discrimination. Then we basically have

2:01

to eliminate certain areas of speech

2:03

entirely. So we just couldn't talk

2:05

about suicide prevention anymore because we're

2:07

not going to talk about suicide

2:09

promotion. I guess we couldn't have

2:11

prose Semitic speech because we're not

2:13

going to have anti semitic speech.

2:15

Such. A valid has earlier with cheese and

2:17

toddler. cofounder of the tech website for For

2:20

Media Us and I started by asking what

2:22

he thought social media companies would do if.

2:24

The court ruled against them. I honestly

2:26

think that some of the big social

2:28

media companies will pull out of the

2:31

states entirely. I I would

2:33

be a very extreme move. But.

2:35

It's one that we've seen before.

2:37

There's. Actually been set a patchwork

2:40

with porn hub. North Carolina,

2:42

Montana, Louisiana, Virginia, Mississippi, and

2:44

Texas have all passed these

2:46

age verification laws were you

2:48

sir, have had like upload

2:50

and Id. To. Watch

2:52

Porn. And. Rather than

2:54

try to comply with these laws,

2:56

Porn Hub has just blocked itself

2:58

in the states. And. In

3:00

Canada say such as that you

3:03

can't share news in Canada because

3:05

Canada tried to make Facebook pay

3:07

for news access and a similar

3:09

thing happened in Australia. So.

3:12

It would be an extreme move by I could

3:14

see some of these social media platforms pulling out

3:16

of the states to make a point. Florida.

3:19

And Texas are huge states though,

3:21

so how can any tech company

3:23

afford? To just block out for audiences that

3:25

are there, think about how they make their

3:27

money. They make their money with advertising, and

3:29

they're trying to create a space that. Disney

3:32

and Tell logs and Proctor and

3:34

Gamble and all these massive companies

3:37

feel very safe advertising in to

3:39

look at what happened on acts

3:41

when people were able to take

3:43

screenshots of not see and far

3:45

right sweets next to Disney adds

3:47

a Disney pulled their money. We're

3:50

talking about millions and millions and

3:52

millions of dollars at stake. And

3:54

we're also talking about platforms that

3:56

have billions of users all around

3:58

the world. So. Lauren texts

4:00

or big states but these are

4:02

global company is and if they

4:04

are sort of forced to have

4:06

this piecemeal. Moderation. Says

4:09

some We could see either of

4:11

really patchwork. He social media were

4:13

like you said, Facebook looks way

4:15

different in Georgia than it looks

4:17

in Florida. Or we could see

4:19

these social media companies at least

4:21

threaten to leave the states hoping

4:24

to sort of negotiate something better.

4:26

So what would that mean for social media

4:28

you says? I know we have a love

4:30

hate relationship a social media, but it does

4:32

obviously have some that it's a way for

4:34

people to organize their community and separate to

4:36

their family members cetera. So what would it

4:38

mean. For social media users, the

4:41

companies would be severely limited in

4:43

the types of content moderation that

4:45

they can do. And.

4:48

Because these laws are so broad.

4:51

Would. Facebook be allowed to delete Spam?

4:53

Would it be allowed to delete porn?

4:55

Would it be allowed to delete Nazi

4:57

content which is obviously political in nature

4:59

and and that's the way of these

5:01

laws are written, that they serve can

5:04

act or severely limited in the ways

5:06

that they can act on political content.

5:09

And so we might see a

5:11

system where people in Texas and

5:13

Florida are essentially like put into

5:15

facebook jail. Where. Their feeds

5:17

look way different and sort of

5:19

way I guess gnarly or then

5:21

people seeds in other states because

5:23

taste is limited on. What

5:26

sorts of content can act on an

5:28

icy Facebook? But another thing is it's

5:30

not clear what companies these laws even

5:32

apply to. The laws are so broadly

5:34

were inadequate apply to Fubar it could

5:36

apply to at see it apply to

5:39

do email and so I think that

5:41

complying with the sly is going to

5:43

be very hard. And. That's why

5:45

I think that we might to see them

5:47

sing or you can use Facebook anymore. So.

5:50

Obviously the Supreme court heard arguments

5:52

in this case yesterday. Did. You

5:54

get any sense from the justices of where they

5:56

were falling to, they seem to be more amenable

5:58

to the states and as. Or other

6:00

companies. Or neither. It seems like

6:03

they are going to try to

6:05

avoid issuing a sweeping decision. They

6:07

were all sort of saying like

6:09

we understand that our ruling here

6:12

can fundamentally change how social media

6:14

and the internet works And so

6:16

they seem. Sort. Of

6:18

Inclines either throw it back down

6:20

to a lower court or too

6:22

narrowly tailored their decision. It's

6:25

kind of interesting because Justice Alito said

6:27

that he was really worried about sort

6:29

of like the dystopian nature of Facebook

6:32

deciding it's rules And then you had

6:34

Brett Kavanaugh say well i think it's

6:36

dystopian that the states one I'd make

6:39

these rules and so you. You kind

6:41

of have people on both sides saying

6:43

like this is about free speech for

6:45

users and then you have people say

6:48

well, this is about free speech for

6:50

it, These corporations who should be able

6:52

to make their own rules and. There's.

6:55

No heroes here. Really? Yes. Like that

6:57

of content. Moderation is a mess. Social

6:59

media is a mass. Absolutely.

7:02

Yeah as someone has been smashed Imax

7:04

I would agree so we have some

7:06

months before the supreme court makes are

7:08

willing have the can You give us

7:10

some perspective unlike the fundamental passing yards

7:12

as conservatives say that these sites of

7:14

and moderating them unfairly which is why

7:16

they pass these laws. what is your

7:18

reporting and trotting of these companies will

7:20

sell. So this is a little

7:22

simplistic, but this can arises out

7:24

of Ted Cruz being very mad

7:27

that Facebook one still be dead

7:29

at Sit Fillet appreciation page many

7:31

years ago and that was an

7:33

accident. By. It became

7:36

this sort of like rallying

7:38

cry that Conservatives were being

7:40

silenced. Shadow banned, Deleted.

7:43

Off. of social media and that

7:45

their content was overtly being moderated

7:47

against or that the algorithm was

7:50

not allowing conservative view points to

7:52

spread but the data shows it's

7:54

like if you are to facebook

7:56

and look at the top posts

7:58

the overwhelming majority of the top

8:01

posts are right leaning news sites

8:03

and sometimes like outright disinformation. So

8:06

this sort of cry of social media censorship

8:08

has been a rallying cry for the right

8:10

for a long time. And

8:12

these laws are a response to that.

8:15

And travel that tonight interview with Jason

8:17

Kebler, co-founder of the independent tech website

8:20

404 Media, talking about what would happen

8:22

to social media if the Supreme Court

8:24

upholds these Florida and Texas laws that

8:26

restrict how companies can moderate content. We

8:29

will have a link to his site in our show notes.

8:31

Thanks so much for that, Josie.

8:34

Now on to Michigan with presidential

8:36

primaries happening today. Despite it being

8:38

somewhat of a foregone conclusion that

8:40

Trump and Biden will face off

8:42

for the presidency again, today's election

8:45

and its results will continue to

8:47

help us learn more about voters

8:49

and the issues they care about

8:51

most. Reporter Brianna Rice talked to

8:54

young voters in Detroit about what

8:56

they are thinking about as they

8:58

head to the polls. In top

9:00

of mind for many people, the

9:03

war in Gaza. The wars

9:05

that's going on between Israel

9:08

and Palestine, and also Russia and Ukraine

9:10

are probably like the two main topics

9:12

that are in mind. How

9:14

we deal with foreign affairs. So

9:17

of course that situation over

9:19

there with the Palestinians. Definitely

9:21

the Palestinian-Israel conflict. I

9:23

am torn. I don't want to

9:25

see a Trump presidency, but I

9:27

don't want to see this continue

9:29

to happen in Palestine. That

9:32

was Jocelyn Rodriguez, Jacob

9:34

Boxley, Hedy Asin, and

9:36

Ellen Stackowitz. Yeah, so

9:38

yesterday's show we featured an interview

9:40

our co-host Juanita did with the

9:42

Listen to Michigan campaign that's organizing

9:44

folks to vote uncommitted in today's

9:46

election. They say it's a sign

9:49

of protest against President Biden's policy

9:51

position on this issue. So especially

9:53

given what we just heard, we will definitely watch

9:55

out for that uncommitted percentage after

9:57

this election. Absolutely. And other issues.

10:00

issues that voters noted as high

10:02

on their list were gun control.

10:04

Here's voter Kelly Collins. Number

10:07

one would be gun control. I'm

10:09

not a single issue voter, but I'm pretty

10:11

close to being one. That one's really important

10:13

to me just for public safety. As

10:15

well as Biden and Trump's age. This

10:18

is Ellen Stakowitz again. I do know

10:20

that people have their concerns over if

10:22

they are mentally fit enough for the

10:24

position and I have those concerns as well.

10:27

And then there are a number of

10:29

folks we talked to who aren't paying

10:31

a ton of attention, at least not

10:33

yet. How are you judging candidates? Like, do

10:35

you hear about them in your life? No,

10:38

not really. I really do not

10:40

follow politics. And do you plan

10:42

to vote? No. Not in the primary or the general?

10:44

No. I have to vote for somebody, but

10:46

I don't know who to vote for. Um,

10:48

um, but I'm leaning more towards

10:51

Donald Trump. I go a lot with

10:53

what my mom has like kind of talked to me

10:55

about. Um, her and I

10:57

tend to be on pretty much the

10:59

same page of just like, we, we're

11:01

not super excited about the upcoming election,

11:04

but overall we're leaning

11:06

more democratic. That was

11:09

Angel Perafoy, Hedy Yassine

11:11

again, and Lucas Savajalam.

11:13

Yeah. That's a reminder. A lot of people try

11:15

to live their life away from politics. And when

11:18

you talk about this stuff all the time, it

11:20

can feel like it must be the center of

11:22

everybody's life, but it is certainly not. It certainly

11:24

is not. Other

11:27

people brought up the student debt crisis

11:29

and the cost of education. So that's,

11:31

you know, still a major issue for

11:34

folks. And of course this all is

11:36

just a taste of what Michigan voters

11:38

are thinking about this election. We will

11:40

continue to bring your voices out there

11:43

into our coverage throughout this election season.

11:45

So if you have any reflections you'd

11:47

like to share, hit us up on

11:50

Discord. If you're a friend of the

11:52

pod, and if you're not yet,

11:54

head to crooked.com/friends. That's

11:57

the ladies for now. We'll be back after some ads.

12:11

What a day is brought to you by Lomi. We

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12:36

Josie, but I grew up in

12:38

a household that was very into

12:40

leftovers. Oh, yeah. But you know,

12:43

there comes a point where you're done

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with the leftovers, okay? You're not eating

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13:33

episode. Academy Award winner Kate

13:35

Winslet stars in the new HBO original

13:37

limited series, The Regime. Within

13:40

the walls of her palace, the charming

13:42

and terrifying chancellor, played by Winslet, becomes

13:44

increasingly paranoid and delusional. With her nation

13:46

on the verge of greatness, she will

13:48

stop at nothing to prove her worth

13:50

on the world stage or

13:52

end up an international disaster. From

13:55

executive producers of Succession, HBO's The

13:57

Regime premieres this Sunday on Max.

14:01

Hi there, I'm Liza Powell O'Brien,

14:03

and I'm a writer, a reader, and a

14:05

wife of someone you may have heard of.

14:10

And I'm here to tell you about

14:12

the newest season of my podcast for

14:14

Team Koko, Significant Others. Each

14:17

week, we tell stories you may not know

14:19

about a person you probably do. Like

14:22

Benedict Arnold, whose wife Peggy may

14:24

be the reason he almost succeeded

14:26

in betraying his country. Look

14:29

for Significant Others wherever you get

14:31

your podcasts. Let's

14:34

get to some headlines. Here's

14:40

the latest news coming out of Gaza and Israel. First,

14:43

President Biden told reporters yesterday that

14:45

a ceasefire could be coming soon.

14:48

My National Security Advisor tells me that we're

14:50

close. We're close. It's not

14:52

done yet. And my hope is by next

14:54

Monday, we'll have a ceasefire. That

14:56

deal would follow negotiations currently being held in Qatar.

14:59

Israel does still maintain a public posture that

15:02

it will not end the war until Hamas

15:04

is quote, wiped off the face of the

15:06

earth, as Economy and Industry Minister Nir Bekat

15:08

put it. And senior

15:10

Hamas official, Sami Abu Zuri, told

15:12

Reuters yesterday that any ceasefire agreement

15:14

would require quote, securing an end

15:16

to the aggression, the withdrawal of

15:18

the occupation, the returning of the

15:21

displaced, the entry of aid, shelter

15:23

equipment, and rebuild. So

15:25

the United States has been pressuring Palestinian President

15:27

Mahmoud Abbas to make personnel changes

15:29

in the Palestinian Authority, which

15:31

governs the occupied West Bank, as all

15:33

parties look towards the post war

15:36

future of the occupied Palestinian territories.

15:39

Against that political backdrop, Palestinian Prime

15:41

Minister Mohammad Shatayeh announced the resignation

15:43

of his government yesterday. He

15:46

framed the move as one that would allow

15:48

for the creation of a new consensus government

15:50

quote, based on Palestinian unity and the extension

15:53

of unity of authority over the land

15:55

of Palestine. And lastly,

15:57

authorities confirmed the identity of the person who was in

15:59

the Palestinian Authority. who set himself on fire

16:01

in front of the Israeli embassy in Washington,

16:03

D.C. this Sunday, and what he

16:06

described in a livestream video as

16:08

a, quote, extreme active protest of

16:10

U.S. support for Israel's actions in

16:12

Gaza. Aaron Bushnell was an

16:14

active duty member of the U.S. Air Force.

16:17

He shouted, free Palestine, as he burned, and

16:19

later died of his injuries. The

16:22

Federal Trade Commission has sued

16:24

to block the murder of

16:26

grocery store giants Kroger and

16:29

Albertsons, citing antitrust concerns. At

16:31

$25 billion, this would be the

16:34

biggest supermarket deal in history, but

16:36

its future is now uncertain after

16:38

the FTC pointed out that a

16:40

merger of the country's first and

16:43

second largest supermarket operators might not

16:45

be good for consumers. That's

16:47

especially significant when you consider that Americans

16:50

are now spending more of their income

16:52

on food than they have in

16:54

three decades, according to The Wall

16:56

Street Journal. Around 700,000 people

16:58

are employed by the companies represented

17:00

in the merger, and the FTC's lawsuit

17:03

argued that many of them stand

17:05

to lose as well since the rise

17:07

of a new grocery mega corporation could

17:09

imperil their ability to fight for

17:11

higher wages and better working conditions. Seems

17:14

like the only people who'd benefit from

17:16

this deal are people who are nostalgic

17:18

for that period last year, when high

17:21

prices turned eggs into a status

17:23

symbol. I know you all remember

17:25

that. Oh, it's a dark time. Tragic,

17:28

tragic time. And of

17:30

course, Kroger, Albertsons, shareholders, and

17:32

executives who I'm sure are

17:34

in it for the money,

17:36

because why not? For

17:38

their part, an Albertson spokesperson said

17:40

the deal would actually increase competition

17:43

by helping the combined companies go

17:45

up against Amazon, Costco, and Walmart.

18:00

And this comes weeks after she told

18:02

soon-to-be Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump she

18:04

depart after the South Carolina primary, according

18:06

to CNN. Trump

18:08

has said that the chairman of the North

18:10

Carolina Republican Party, Michael Watley, is his pick

18:13

to replace McDaniel, and that he wants his

18:15

daughter-in-law, Laura Trump, to be co-chair. The

18:17

former president used to support McDaniel. Back

18:20

in 2017, he chose her for this

18:22

position. But he has turned on

18:24

her more recently, partly because of financial troubles the

18:26

party has run into under her leadership. And

18:29

partly, according to the New York Times, because

18:31

she refused to cancel this year's primary debates

18:33

and the Republican primary itself. And

18:36

speaking of Trump, which is no one's

18:38

favorite thing to do, he could be

18:41

the target of a new gag order

18:43

when his first criminal trial kicks off

18:45

next month. Just to help

18:47

you keep all of Trump's trials

18:49

straight, this one brought by a

18:51

Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg pertains to

18:53

the hush money Trump paid to

18:56

adult film star Stormy Daniels. And

18:58

prosecutors requested the gag order yesterday,

19:01

and it would prevent the former

19:03

president from disparaging witnesses, jurors, and

19:05

others involved with the case. Prosecutors

19:08

also asked the judge to prevent the

19:10

release of jurors' names and addresses. As

19:13

the attorneys pointed out in their

19:15

requests, there's a good reason for

19:18

taking these precautionary steps, specifically Trump's

19:20

history of, quote, violent rhetoric and

19:22

public attacks on people involved in

19:24

legal proceedings against him. We've witnessed

19:27

it all. We know it's bad

19:29

that this is probably for the

19:31

best here. No, he has great

19:34

self-control. He'll be fine. I

19:37

mean, even with the gag order, we've seen

19:40

him have gag orders before and violate them.

19:42

This man lost the defamation lawsuit, went

19:44

out, and defamed more. Nevertheless,

19:47

he persisted, is the true latest story

19:49

here. And

19:53

those are the headlines. One

19:56

more thing before we go. Alexei

19:58

Navalny. If you didn't know

20:01

his name before, now is a great time to

20:03

listen up. On the latest Pod

20:05

Save the World bonus episode, Tommy Vitor

20:07

and Ben Rhodes discuss the sudden death

20:09

of Russia's most prominent opposition figure. For

20:12

more on why the entire world blames Putin,

20:14

guns, or swans, and what this means for

20:16

Russia going forward, listen only on the Pod

20:18

Save the World feed. And

20:30

not just Trump gag orders like

20:32

me, well today is also a

20:34

nightly newsletter. Check it out and

20:37

subscribe at crooked.com/subscribe. I'm Treville Anderson.

20:39

I'm Josie Deffy Rice. And start

20:41

studying Dune. By the

20:43

time you finish watching it, it'll

20:46

be Friday. Cause it's so long. So I heard

20:48

it's very good, but I can't do long. My

20:50

movie's gotta be an hour and 20 minutes. Oh,

20:53

not even 90 minutes anymore? You've

20:56

cut it down? I've cut it down. Because

20:58

you know what? All of those starting minute movies,

21:00

they could take 10 minutes off. They could do

21:02

it. Cut it out. Cut it out,

21:04

Josie. I believe that. Lutidae

21:09

is a production of Cricut Media. It's

21:11

recorded and mixed by Bill Lance.

21:13

Raven Yamamoto and Natalie Bettendorf are

21:15

our associate producers, with production support

21:18

from John Milstein. Our showrunner is

21:20

Leo Duran, and our executive producer

21:22

is Adrian Hill. Our theme music

21:25

is by Colin Gilyard and Koshanka.

21:37

I'm a chef and a restaurant owner. I'm

21:39

as meticulous about my cookware as I am

21:41

about my ingredients. That's why I love made-in

21:43

cookware. Each pan they make isn't just designed

21:46

to perform, it's crafted to last. As

21:48

a mom, I love that I can trust made-in.

21:50

It's made from the world's finest materials, so I

21:52

can feel good about what I'm feeding my family.

21:54

I'm Chef Brooke Williamson, and I use made-in cookware.

21:58

Hi there. I'm Liza. I'm I'm Liza Powell O'Brien,

22:01

and I'm a writer, a reader, and the

22:03

wife of someone you may have heard of. And

22:08

I'm here to tell you about the

22:10

newest season of my podcast for Team

22:12

Coco, Significant Others. Each

22:14

week, we tell stories you may not

22:16

know about a person you probably do,

22:19

like Benedict Arnold, whose wife Peggy

22:21

may be the reason he almost

22:24

succeeded in betraying his country. Look

22:26

for Significant Others wherever you get

22:28

your podcasts.