0:00

Hi everyone. My name's Wendy Manganaro

0:03

and I am the Host of the Wellness and

0:05

Wealth podcast. I'm so happy

0:07

to have you find us. And

0:09

if you could take a moment and hit that subscribe

0:12

button, I'd really appreciate it. This

0:15

is the podcast where we believe

0:17

when you show up better for yourself

0:20

as a woman business owner, you show up

0:22

better for your business. So

0:24

sit back, relax. And learn

0:26

from the practical to the woo-hoo, how to

0:28

best take care of you. Have

0:31

a great day. Stay blessed. And

0:34

leave a review when you're done listening

0:36

to the show, thanks so much.

0:38

Hi everyone. Today's topic is Self-Care

0:40

for Female Entrepreneurs, and we're

0:42

with Andrea Wilson Woods and

0:45

I'm gonna read our bio and of course we're gonna get right into

0:47

it. Andrea Wilson Woods is

0:49

a writer who loves to tell stories

0:52

and a patient advocate who founded

0:54

the nonprofit. Blue Ferry,

0:56

the Adrian Wilson Liver Cancer Association.

0:59

Andrea is the CEO

1:01

and Co-founder of Cancer University, a for-profit

1:04

social impact digital health company.

1:06

Her bestselling award-winning book, better Off

1:08

Bald A Life in hundred 47

1:11

Days as a medical memoir about

1:13

raising and losing her sister to a liver cancer.

1:16

So welcome, Andrea. Thank you

1:18

so much for being

1:20

with us.

1:21

Oh, thank you, Wendy. You know, I adore

1:24

you.

1:26

So in all fairness to the listeners, Andrea

1:28

and I have a little bit of a history, cuz actually

1:30

I've been on her podcast as a childhood cancer

1:33

survivor. And it was actually the first

1:35

interview I had ever done about

1:37

my cancer. So, when I was

1:39

thinking of guest for this show, I knew that I

1:41

had to have you on because of your

1:43

history with your sister. And,

1:46

we always talk about self-care in so many levels

1:48

here, and I know that there are

1:50

entrepreneurs out there who have loved

1:52

ones who have cancer and still trying to run a

1:54

business. But before

1:56

we get into all of that, the question

1:58

I ask every guest as far

2:00

as their topic is, what does self-care

2:03

mean to you?

2:04

It means making yourself

2:06

a priority and I think

2:08

that is really hard to

2:10

do for most women, and I think it's

2:12

really hard to do for women

2:15

who are parents, whether you

2:17

are a biological mother or in my case,

2:19

I raised my sister, your

2:22

tendency is to put other people first.

2:25

And self-care starts with making

2:27

yourself a priority and

2:29

giving yourself the time.

2:31

How it actually

2:34

looks is different for everyone.

2:38

I so agree with that. Everybody

2:40

is so different for what self-care

2:43

looks like, but it's about finding

2:45

what works for you. And

2:49

I think even that there's a journey within

2:51

finding what works for you

2:52

Yes, there is. It does not happen overnight.

2:56

does not happen overnight.

2:58

Well, and to that point, can you share

3:00

a bit about what it looked like for you,

3:03

and where you were at your life that you made the

3:05

decision to put yourself first

3:07

I am really sorry to say that that didn't happen

3:09

until my forties when I was

3:11

raising my sister in my twenties.

3:13

She was my number one priority. And

3:17

then in my thirties I was married

3:19

and in

3:21

many ways my marriage, I don't wanna say my husband

3:24

is an individual, but my marriage, what we

3:26

had was a priority,

3:29

and it wasn't until even

3:32

before I left that marriage, but I

3:34

had left Los Angeles and

3:36

I needed a change of scenery and a lot of people

3:38

didn't understand it. I had been in LA my whole

3:40

adult life, but I wasn't from there and

3:44

that was the beginning of me

3:47

trying to figure out

3:49

one, if I even liked myself

3:52

and loved myself, and two,

3:55

slowly starting to implement

3:58

self-care practices. Some that

4:00

are daily, some that are a couple times a week,

4:02

some that are weekly, but it

4:04

took time. That's the other thing

4:06

I feel. Sometimes people try

4:08

to start new habits overnight,

4:11

and that's not how something becomes a habit.

4:13

It takes time.

4:16

Yeah. And most people don't eat a whole apple

4:18

at once. They take a bite.

4:20

Ooh. Good analogy. Yeah.

4:21

And I don't wanna say I started necessarily in my

4:23

forties, I think the last few years,

4:26

especially with Covid has

4:28

really solidified

4:30

how important self-care is.

4:32

Because I've had some life-changing

4:34

events in the last year where I lost somebody

4:36

very close to me and that raised me

4:39

and suddenly I was like, oh, I take

4:41

care of everyone else. and

4:44

am an Entrepreneur. And I think for women

4:46

there is this ideology we're supposed to be heroes

4:50

and we wear so many hats. We wear so many

4:52

that we forget to put ourselves first. And

4:54

learning how to do that, but then it's not selfish to

4:56

do that.

4:58

Yeah. And for me,

5:00

I know it goes back further than that because

5:02

I'm really working on these aspects now.

5:05

And even though I was in therapy years ago,

5:07

I don't really think we touched on very

5:10

much that my

5:13

mother, more so than my dad

5:15

ever did. But my mother turned me into a

5:17

parent at a very young age. And

5:20

from the time I was nine, 10 years

5:22

old, I was the parent in the relationship.

5:25

And if that is how

5:28

you're raised, you don't know any different.

5:30

You really don't. And so

5:33

my norm, in relationships

5:36

and that includes romance and friends,

5:38

was to be

5:41

the end all be all for that person,

5:43

or at least try to be. And

5:46

sometimes you end up helping people who don't wanna be

5:48

helped. It took a long time to figure

5:51

that out. It really did. I

5:53

attracted so many

5:55

men that needed help and

5:57

needed to be fixed. And maybe

5:59

subconsciously wanted to be fixed, but certainly

6:01

not consciously. And I was

6:03

a good fixer. I was good at taking

6:06

care of people and I was also good at covering up

6:08

their mistakes too.

6:10

And it's so interesting that you say that you,

6:12

learned this later, cuz I'm a big believer life

6:14

is lived forward, and learned backwards. And

6:17

you're sharing about your story it reminded of when

6:20

my parents divorced when I. Six.

6:22

They separated, I should say, I

6:24

don't remember having to take on a parent role, but

6:27

I had a really good friend down the street. We were best

6:29

friends. We were both born on the same day, and

6:31

his father left maybe two months

6:33

after my dad left. I don't know. It was, it's

6:36

when you're six time was still abstract, but

6:39

I remember thinking like

6:41

all of a sudden I needed to take care of

6:43

him and be, make sure he was okay.

6:46

because his parent has left and it was like something

6:48

switched in me that it was more important

6:51

to take care of him than take care of myself about this.

6:53

And I don't know if that was something innate that

6:55

I had, but I was like, I have something to focus

6:57

on. And I also think that's the thing about

6:59

self-care is sometimes it's uncomfortable

7:01

to focus on yourself, so

7:04

easier to focus on somebody

7:07

else.

7:07

Oh, that's such a great point,

7:10

it really is. One of my dad's

7:13

favorite stories about me, and this is before my

7:15

parents got divorced, was. That

7:18

I lived in this cul-de-sac, in a

7:20

smaller town in western Arkansas.

7:23

And again, this is, my parents were still married long before

7:25

my sister was born. And every Saturday

7:27

morning my dad would said as he was

7:29

going off to play golf, I would have all the neighborhood

7:31

kids younger and older than me

7:34

together in a circle. And I was. This

7:36

is what we're going to do today, so

7:40

it was a combination of being a little bossy,

7:43

but also I was, I truly was the

7:45

organizer. I was the leader.

7:48

I was the person people came to

7:50

for things. And it's

7:53

interesting because there's this wonderful

7:55

woman, she was the parent of

7:57

a friend of mine who was my age, and

8:00

I think she really saw that in me, and

8:02

she saw that. I needed

8:04

more. And she was so encouraging, and we

8:06

are still in touch. We lost touch for a long time,

8:09

but we're still in touch to this day. And she

8:11

was one of the parents I felt did not

8:13

shame me or my brother when my parents

8:15

got divorced because we were the only kids

8:18

and the whole cul-de-sac whose parents were divorced.

8:20

And I, and it was embarrassing. It truly was.

8:23

And I'm digressing quite a bit,

8:24

I understand that feeling because my parents

8:26

were the first kids to get to divorce in my

8:29

whole school. I understand that

8:31

feeling.

8:32

Wow. There's a great article,

8:35

this was years ago and in the week,

8:37

which I don't read anymore, but

8:39

it is a good magazine and

8:42

it was, I thought it was so telling. It said,

8:45

If you were a baby boomer. Now, if

8:47

you're a very young baby boomer, this

8:49

might not be true. So sorry for the people

8:51

on the cusp, but you remember

8:53

where you were when you heard that JFK

8:55

got shot. If you're a millennial,

8:58

you remember where you were when you heard

9:00

that Osama bin was dead. Because

9:02

if you think about it, they

9:05

didn't really grow up with a time where they didn't know

9:08

what happened. Do you know what I mean? Millennials

9:10

being born between like 1980 and 2000,

9:13

but if you're Gen Xer, which is what I

9:15

am. How old were you when

9:17

your parents got a divorce? Because

9:20

Gen Xers were really the first generation

9:23

where divorce became prevalent.

9:26

Yeah. And that makes sense. Wow. And I was

9:28

actually doing a Gen X thing looking for marketing

9:30

stuff the other day of how we buy and what social

9:32

media sites we were on. And that's really

9:34

an interesting thing because, We

9:37

spread to ourselves out more than anybody else

9:39

out of all of the other generations.

9:41

Oh yeah. We were the latchkey kids.

9:43

Absolutely. I mean, you look at some

9:45

of the most successful

9:48

people in the world today,

9:50

and they're Gen Xers.

9:51

And that's an interesting thing too, because

9:53

when you think about it, is in

9:56

one way it made us learn how to

9:58

grow up and take care of

10:02

ourselves and others, but

10:04

in another way, I think there's,

10:06

at least for me, I know for myself, it

10:09

has stunted me in other areas

10:12

because there wasn't

10:14

any sort of balance

10:16

between the two.

10:18

There's a great book called Boundaries that

10:20

someone recommended to me, gosh,

10:23

less than eight years ago. and

10:25

I didn't read it right away. I only read it I think

10:28

in the last two years. And I

10:30

would recommend that to just about anyone,

10:32

even if you think your childhood was perfect. Because

10:35

maybe your boundary issues are only in

10:37

your professional life. And that book

10:39

really helped me understand

10:42

how my childhood set

10:44

me up to not have appropriate

10:46

boundaries. With people

10:49

In my personal life, in my professional

10:51

life, I was pretty good with boundaries. Not

10:53

always, but pretty good. But

10:55

in my personal life, I wasn't.

10:58

I wasn't, and that always surprises people.

11:00

I know I'm a really strong personality,

11:03

but in my personal life I.

11:07

I look back now and I'm okay with it now, but I look

11:09

back now and think, wow, if I had said

11:11

what I was really thinking, I wouldn't have stayed

11:13

friends with that person for over a decade. You

11:16

know what I mean? But

11:18

I didn't know. When you grow up without

11:20

boundaries or at least appropriate ones,

11:23

you don't know.

11:25

And I think there's been a thing like, be nice

11:27

to everybody. That has been passed through generations

11:30

and you shouldn't not be nice. That's not what I'm advocating

11:32

just saying that, but not to the point

11:34

where it hurts you. And I think that's where

11:37

the boundary issues of

11:39

our childhood started. it was be

11:41

nice. And it was like, well why are we being

11:43

nice? They're not really nice, but you were supposed to be nice

11:45

anyway. And it's taken me years to say

11:48

I could be nice, but I don't have to stand there either.

11:50

Like I can walk away. Which is the really

11:52

I think the key difference is I don't think

11:55

I'm ever, not nice, but I'm also not

11:57

tolerant of bad behavior

11:59

toward me anymore. And that's all

12:01

part of self-care. I always say, self-care has

12:03

so many layers. And just

12:06

the ability to be like, we can

12:08

disagree, that's great, but I don't have to stand here and be uncomfortable

12:11

about it either. That is like your choice

12:13

to the point you were making to earlier too,

12:15

is that there are people on,

12:17

and I really, the longer that I

12:19

am on this earth, the more I realize

12:22

this, there are people in every stage of life,

12:24

and some of them want help, some of them don't.

12:27

And I don't have to take any of it personally, it's

12:29

just where they're at.

12:32

That's right, the four agreements, man,

12:34

I've got them right here on my computer.

12:36

And the second one is, don't take anything

12:38

personally. It's so

12:40

true. Don't take anything personally. It's not

12:42

easy to implement. Don't get me wrong. It's

12:44

not, that's hards not, but don't take things personally.

12:47

I recently had something happen in

12:49

the last month where,

12:51

a good friend of mine and I had

12:53

just seen her too in person for

12:55

my. I'll

12:58

say it on your podcast for my 50th birthday. So

13:00

I only celebrate the birthdays ending in zero

13:03

ever since my sister died, and

13:05

this was only the third one since that time.

13:07

And a whole bunch of girlfriends met me in Vegas

13:09

and it was amazing. Like it was exactly

13:11

what I wanted for the big five. So I'd just seen

13:13

her and she's I

13:16

wanna say almost inadvertently dumped

13:18

something on my lap. I saw something

13:20

I thought she'd be interested in it. And

13:23

she was like, you just go ahead and do it for me. And

13:26

I was pissed, but

13:28

I almost did it. Because I'm that

13:30

person. And I'm so used to being that person.

13:33

And I just took a step back and I thought, she's a grownup.

13:36

She can handle this. I

13:38

can be honest with her and

13:40

that's what I did. So I left her a voicemail.

13:43

I was very careful with my words, but

13:45

honest. and I didn't

13:47

do anything accusing, like you, you, you,

13:50

I used the I words, but I was

13:52

very clear. I said, I feel like

13:54

da, da da. And I just, and at the

13:56

end I said, it's not my responsibility

13:58

to do this for you. I just

14:00

thought it was something you'd be interested in.

14:02

If you're not, that's okay too. Doesn't bother

14:05

me either way, but it's not my responsibility.

14:08

And she handled it beautifully. But

14:10

she's a grownup who's

14:12

done a lot of work on herself. And

14:15

that situations like that, growing up

14:17

in my teens and my twenties,

14:20

where something would get

14:22

dumped on my lap and people

14:24

would dump it on my lap because they knew I would take care

14:26

of it. Because I always took care of it. And

14:28

I'm getting much better at saying

14:31

that's not okay. Or it's just not

14:33

my job. It's not.

14:35

And to that point, There

14:37

was a phase in my life that I felt like I was going

14:39

through, and it was like that saying,

14:42

which now I hear that saying, and I'm like, Ugh.

14:44

What, what is it?

14:46

And the saying is when you want something done,

14:48

give it to the busiest person and they'll get it done.

14:50

It's true.

14:51

It is true. Because we don't know how to say no.

14:53

That's right.

14:54

So when my son was small, I

14:57

was in the PTA and I was helping my husband

14:59

run a nonprofit and I had my business and everybody

15:01

was like, oh, give it to Wendy, she'll get it done. And there

15:03

was truth to it, but I didn't realize I was burning myself

15:06

out either. There is truth to that. But

15:08

on the other side of that is that when you're not

15:10

careful, you don't even see how you're burning

15:12

yourself out while you're taking care

15:14

of what other people. Don't

15:17

take care of it. And there's a really good friend

15:19

of mine, and he said this to me years ago. Somebody asked him

15:21

for something and it was like, this urgent

15:23

thing. And I was like, what do you mean you're not gonna go

15:25

do that for them? And he's like, no, their

15:27

emergency is not mine just because

15:29

of their poor planning. It blew my mind.

15:32

I was like, What do you mean their poor planning

15:34

isn't your emergencies? He said to me, This

15:36

is what I can do, and if they can't do it within those

15:38

constraints because they chose to

15:40

wait till last minute. That's really not

15:42

my responsibility. And I was

15:44

like,

15:46

your face. I wish people could see your

15:49

face. I wanna add too, it's a work in

15:51

progress. I did that with my friend.

15:53

It went beautifully. It was

15:55

great. Just a few months

15:57

before, I had gotten

16:00

really sick the very last day

16:02

of a conference, and I think it was one of my first

16:04

in-person conferences since Covid, not my very

16:07

first, but certainly a large one,

16:09

over 25,000 people in person.

16:11

And I knew

16:13

I was really sick and I

16:16

don't complain and I don't get

16:18

sick like that. Now, why? I didn't think it was

16:20

Covid. I don't know, but and

16:23

I had one day in between this one conference

16:25

and then the second conference where I was

16:27

speaking in Paris and

16:30

this was a conference that was supposed to happen,

16:33

two years prior, canceled,

16:35

multiple times and finally it was gonna happen. Well,

16:39

if it had just been me, I

16:41

felt good enough, and this is where professionally

16:43

I can stand up for myself. I would've

16:45

just, let the conference coordinators know

16:47

that I can't be there. I could try to zoom

16:49

in for my little talk,

16:52

but I just can't go. And

16:55

unfortunately though, or fortunately, My

16:58

stepmother and I had planned to do this as

17:00

a girls trip as well, and so

17:03

we were both flying into Atlanta and

17:05

then had a direct fly from Atlanta to Paris

17:08

and we had tacked on a couple of days after

17:10

the conference to have some fun in Paris

17:12

and I called her that one day in

17:14

between, I called her to let

17:16

her know and I

17:19

could not say no to her, and

17:21

I'm not gonna regret it because I can't look

17:24

back. But I

17:26

could hear the hurt in her voice and how upset

17:28

she was, and she had been looking forward to the

17:30

trip for two years and yada, yada,

17:32

yada. And so I made

17:35

a huge mistake and I went

17:37

on this trip. The following day,

17:39

I went and as soon

17:41

as she saw me in the Atlanta airport

17:43

where we met up at our gate, she took one

17:45

look at me. I hadn't said a word yet, and she said,

17:48

oh my God, just

17:50

looking at me. And

17:53

I was sick the entire time. I

17:55

did test positive for Covid and

17:57

I was very fortunate. I like to think

17:59

the universe was looking out for me because

18:02

at that time there was

18:04

a restriction or regulation in place

18:06

where you had to have a negative

18:09

COVID test from a pharmacy before

18:12

you could fly back to the U.S. And I was

18:14

still testing positive and

18:16

it was just such a miserable trip, it was just,

18:18

was not good across the board. We travel

18:20

fine together, but it was not good. And

18:23

I was so fortunate because we

18:25

were thinking, oh my God, I'm gonna get stuck in Paris.

18:27

We were like, what's gonna happen? Well,

18:31

that requirement got

18:33

not even waived, got eliminated on

18:35

Sunday at midnight. Paris

18:38

time and our flight left

18:40

Tuesday morning, early. Early.

18:43

So I got so fortunate

18:45

because I'm not sure by Monday afternoon

18:48

if I would've tested, negative or not.

18:50

And I don't think she

18:52

really got it until recently.

18:56

She had covid before, mild

18:59

case, very mild. She finally

19:01

got what I had, whatever variant it was, and

19:03

yeah, we were Vaxxed and whatever didn't

19:05

help very much. But she finally

19:08

got what I had and she realized how sick I

19:10

really was. Like she got

19:12

it finally. But my

19:15

gosh, I couldn't say no. And

19:18

so that's where self-care starts. It's putting yourself

19:20

first, making yourself a priority. There's

19:22

all these other things you can do to physically

19:25

and mentally and spiritually and emotionally take

19:27

care of yourself, but it all

19:29

starts with making yourself a priority.

19:32

Right. And I have done that. I have said

19:35

yes when I really should have said no.

19:37

And then, I'm like, okay,

19:39

I'm not gonna do that again. And I don't,

19:41

but I find that if I'm not careful, I will

19:43

do it in lesser forms. And I'm like, what? I

19:45

don't, this is not my thing. So it and

19:47

I've gotten better over the years

19:50

overall of saying, yeah, no,

19:52

sometimes, and I do have like bright shining

19:54

objects syndrome where I'm like, yeah, I'll go do

19:57

that. And then I'm like, you don't even like that.

19:59

Why are you doing that? So,

20:02

I do wanna hear your experience cuz I do know

20:04

that you took care of your sister. Cuz we had

20:07

part of this conversation after I was on your

20:09

show. You have dedicated your life helping those

20:11

with cancer. So I'm sure you come across

20:13

a lot of caregivers who are

20:15

exhausted from caregiving?

20:18

Because again, when we talk about this

20:20

idea of self-care, and I've come across

20:22

women who are entrepreneurs

20:24

taking care of someone

20:27

currently with cancer. So for you,

20:29

what are the warning signs that you see in other people

20:31

That they need to step back because they're not

20:33

actually helpful at that point,

20:36

because they're not taking care of themselves.

20:40

I think the

20:42

number one sign is probably

20:46

not enough sleep and

20:48

not good sleep. And

20:50

I've personally had issues with sleep. My

20:53

entire life since childhood, I still remember,

20:56

ironically while I was taking care of my sister

20:58

during that short cancer journey of

21:00

less than five months, that was

21:02

the best sleep of my life. To this

21:04

day, still is, and

21:06

it was strange because I really do believe

21:09

that my brain knew that

21:11

if I didn't shut it off and

21:13

I was exhausted. I was falling into bed,

21:15

right? But my brain knew that I

21:17

had seven hours or less

21:20

if there was no emergency visit. And there

21:22

often was in the middle of the night to the er, but

21:25

if there wasn't, I had these seven precious

21:27

hours from the time I got her

21:29

tucked in with the last of her meds until

21:31

the time I woke up. Probably

21:35

took a five minute shower tops and

21:37

got ready for the day with her and.

21:41

Did that stop me from being exhausted? No,

21:44

but it at the time, it certainly helped.

21:46

It was like my brain just knew. But

21:49

I think fatigue really creeps up on

21:51

you and sometimes

21:54

when, at least for me,

21:56

but I sometimes see this, especially in other women,

21:59

when you're feeling emotional

22:02

and you get triggered

22:04

by the slightest thing, it's

22:06

often coming from a place of exhaustion.

22:09

It really is. And just a couple weeks

22:11

ago, I had this happen on a Saturday night

22:13

with my partner and I just cried

22:16

for two hours and

22:18

I repeated myself over and over. I just

22:20

kept saying, I'm just so exhausted. I'm

22:22

exhausted. That's what it is. I'm

22:25

just flat out exhausted

22:28

and I started taking some things off my plate.

22:30

I had to, until I feel better

22:32

again till I feel a little more rested and healthier.

22:35

So man,

22:38

if you're not sleeping well, and this goes for men

22:40

too, to be fair, it

22:43

just affects every single

22:45

other aspect of your life it

22:48

affects everything. And for those people

22:50

out there who sleep well,

22:52

in fact, here's one of my favorite

22:55

celebrity stories of all time. Someone

22:57

asked Julia Roberts once, what was

22:59

her special skill? Like her little secret

23:01

gift. And she said,

23:03

and I don't think the interviewer appreciated by the way. She

23:06

said, I have the ability to fall

23:08

asleep anywhere and

23:10

feel great. Like it feel wonderful. And

23:12

I'm thinking that's a gift. That

23:15

is a gift to be able to fall asleep anywhere.

23:18

That's amazing. And I think for people

23:20

who maybe don't run themselves ragged,

23:23

or even if they keep long hours, they

23:25

are able to get good sleep,

23:27

whatever that is for them, even if it's five

23:29

or six hours, they get really good,

23:31

solid, uninterrupted sleep. They

23:34

have no idea what it's like when

23:36

you're always tired. And that's

23:39

hard. It's really hard.

23:41

Yeah. I'm like you, I don't sleep well and

23:44

it used to be if I didn't get at least six hours sleep,

23:46

I couldn't function and then it went to five hours.

23:48

And really, which is a crazy thing but

23:50

I have to have those five hours and I

23:52

know right away when I don't, because I

23:55

can feel how annoyed

23:57

am at life for no reason when that happened. And

23:59

that's an interesting thing, that's the warning

24:01

sign, is that you're not sleeping well. And I know

24:04

that the stress of taking care of somebody else

24:06

during such a difficult time

24:09

could cause you not To sleep well. The

24:11

stress of it alone. And then you get into this

24:13

cycle. So, what would be some

24:15

hints or some tips, like some solutions

24:18

if you're finding yourself in taking care

24:20

of a loved one with cancer, because I know that this

24:22

is really where you spend a lot of your time, and

24:25

they don't know how to

24:27

take that step back first is it okay

24:30

to take that step back? Where do they turn

24:32

to if they're finding themselves so exhausted?

24:34

Trying to manage it all

24:37

and yet I have found even if somebody

24:40

doesn't want to get well, for

24:42

whatever reason, but I have found that

24:44

if I am giving more,

24:47

then I have. Available

24:51

to give then

24:53

it's not really helping the person I'm trying

24:55

to help anyway. And so

24:58

in your experience for caregiving and

25:00

somebody, especially somebody who has cancer,

25:03

what can they do to give

25:05

themselves permission to take that

25:07

step back? I find that the patients

25:10

want caregivers to be okay.

25:12

And almost every patient

25:15

or survivor I've ever interviewed has

25:17

said that it was harder on the caregivers

25:19

because the patient

25:21

needs to focus on getting and even if they're a child,

25:24

their entire focus is themselves and

25:26

it should be, but they can see the

25:28

wear and tear on the caregiver,

25:31

and I think, What's

25:34

really good is, first

25:36

of all, most people wanna help

25:39

and they don't have a clue how. And

25:42

I've had some debate with people over this,

25:44

and this is where, as a caregiver,

25:47

you can ask for help and

25:50

with no expectations. And

25:52

so, One

25:55

of the things I did do was

25:57

I looked at things I could take off my plate.

26:00

I mean anything directly with my sister

26:02

Adrian's care. That was all me. But

26:05

there were a lot of these other sort of extraneous

26:07

things that people

26:10

could help me with and some were

26:12

small things and one-off things,

26:14

and some were bigger things, and

26:18

I asked for help. And

26:20

some people said yes, and some people

26:22

said no, you do find out who your

26:24

friends are during times like that for

26:26

sure. I think what was challenging

26:29

for me, and I don't know about other caregivers,

26:31

but if that loved one

26:34

dies, I feel if my sister

26:36

had survived, it was all worth it.

26:38

But if that loved one dies, my

26:42

exhaustion didn't hit me for almost

26:44

probably a year because I just kept going

26:47

because I didn't know any other way

26:49

to be, and I was that person

26:52

like I mentioned, I was that way as a kid. I was

26:54

that way as an adult. I was this center and I

26:56

had all these different friends who weren't

26:59

friends with each other necessarily, but were part

27:01

of my life and it

27:04

was a full year before finally,

27:06

I just snapped. And

27:08

was like, I cannot do this anymore.

27:11

I cannot please you people

27:13

anymore. I can't show up to your parties

27:15

and pretend there isn't this huge void missing

27:18

because my sister went everywhere with me. They

27:21

all knew her. And so

27:23

I wish I could say something like Rosie and positive,

27:25

I will say that all

27:28

of my friends, with the exception

27:30

of maybe one or two were with me during that

27:32

time. They were all like aunts

27:34

and uncles to my sister, and so they were there for

27:36

her whole cancer journey. But

27:38

after she died and

27:41

that year later when I got to the point

27:43

where I was falling

27:45

apart and I needed to fall apart, like that

27:47

needed to happen, I lost

27:49

most of those friends I

27:51

did, and man, it

27:54

sucked. It was awful. And

27:56

so I think that a big

27:58

part of it too is that when you

28:00

make yourself a priority and

28:02

you start taking care of yourself, all

28:05

those other people you took care of may

28:08

not stick around. And that's

28:10

okay. That's okay. You

28:12

gotta let 'em go. And it's hard.

28:14

It's hard. I'm a fiercely loyal person

28:17

and I lost

28:19

both my high school best friend and

28:21

then later my college best friend,

28:25

and I still think about 'em. I

28:27

do, but we're not friends at

28:29

all. That's

28:32

interesting. I had a similar experience

28:34

when my dad passed away, cuz I was, I wasn't

28:36

his full-time caretaker, but I was taking

28:38

family leave and driving six

28:40

hours every week to go, take care

28:42

of him three days a week. I'd work four days,

28:45

leave three days, and it was,

28:46

that's a lot.

28:47

It was a lot, and I did it for six months at

28:49

the time that my son was also getting therapy

28:51

in the home and diagnosed on the spectrum.

28:54

So it was a lot during that time. And

28:56

I came back to work right after he passed away.

28:58

Like I and my boss at the time said,

29:01

you need to take some time. And I was like, Nope.

29:04

Because I had been on for.

29:07

So long that I was like, no.

29:09

And six months later, when I quit that

29:11

job and ended up starting my own business, it

29:13

hit me. I mean it really

29:16

hit me at that point. And

29:18

so I understand that because you're so used

29:20

to being at this level of I need to go,

29:22

I need to go. I need to go. You fall

29:24

off at some point in time and I really

29:26

think that's what women need to

29:28

hear because while you're going through it, you're

29:30

like, see, I can do this. It'll be okay. And

29:32

if I just keep doing what's in front of you and

29:35

you become like this task master Instead

29:37

of giving yourself the time to say, no,

29:40

this is what I need. And so at six

29:42

months later, I had no choice. And it's so

29:44

interesting because when my uncle passed away

29:46

this past year, I was like, I'm not doing that to myself

29:48

again. I took the time then, but I had that

29:50

experience. To know that I was like, I'm just

29:53

gonna feel it cuz it's not gonna go away

29:55

and I took about six months on the opposite

29:57

end to really say this was a huge

29:59

loss for me. So it was like all of this grieving.

30:03

The other thing that you talked about though too is losing

30:05

your friend. I have found whether

30:08

it's a negative person or whether

30:10

I've been trying to be more positive or whatever

30:12

that is. I learned that the

30:15

difference is that when I do

30:17

set that boundaries, those people

30:19

do go away on their own. And sometimes

30:21

it is sad, but I also

30:23

go, we're not all gonna grow at the same.

30:26

And maybe one day that'll be great, but

30:29

more likely than not, we're not

30:31

all gonna be at the same page and we don't understand

30:33

because we haven't walked through the same experience and we go

30:35

seek those who would be more understanding

30:37

to the experience. Cuz they have similar experiences.

30:41

But it's not easy. It's not easy.

30:43

And it will hit you eventually. Maybe

30:45

it'll hit you in the form of a heart attack and you die. That's

30:47

how it could hit you. But when,

30:50

I fell apart, I came back together.

30:52

So by the time I met my ex-husband,

30:55

I was back to Andrea's

30:57

got a million things going on, she's just a firecracker.

31:00

Go, go, go, go, go. And that's

31:02

the person my ex-husband met.

31:04

He met that person and

31:07

then there was a time when,

31:09

actually it's started

31:11

when I started working on the first draft of my

31:13

book. But also

31:15

we started having problems in our marriage

31:18

and I just hit bottom

31:20

and he had no idea what

31:23

to do. And to be fair, I don't

31:25

even think he knew who I was anymore. And

31:27

I was still me. I just could

31:29

not keep up the pace that I had

31:31

been doing. And I look

31:33

back now and I'm like, oh my God.

31:37

Like I was that person that there was

31:39

not a spare minute in

31:42

the day ever, and

31:44

I'm still an obsessive planner, like I'm the least

31:46

impulsive person. I know and

31:49

I embrace it now, but if I

31:51

say I'm gonna show up where somewhere, seven

31:53

months, five days from now at X time

31:56

and X City, I will be there. You

31:58

can count on me to show up. So I think people

32:00

know I'm reliable. Impulsive,

32:02

not so much And I think one of

32:04

the things at least that helped me and might

32:07

help those who really love animals, a

32:09

year or so after my sister died, I got

32:11

the dog I had always wanted my

32:13

whole adult life. I got my English mastiff

32:15

named Winston and Animals,

32:18

especially dogs, because of what

32:20

their needs are, they force you to slow down.

32:23

So you're still taking care of

32:26

someone other than yourself, but

32:28

in many ways you're taking care of yourself.

32:30

Because you need to walk the dog, and that's

32:32

time, that's just you and the dog and

32:35

so I find animals

32:37

to be. Extremely

32:40

healing. I know that doesn't work for

32:43

everyone, but for me that

32:45

helped a lot with my dog. But during

32:47

that time I just talked about our dogs

32:49

started having some pretty serious health issues

32:52

and when a, 200

32:54

pound English mastiff has a hip replacement

32:57

it's not an easy recovery for anyone

32:59

involved.

33:00

Oh, I would be lost without my puppies.

33:02

I honestly, I have four of 'em. I have four

33:04

dogs, two cats. And my new thing is I make

33:06

food for them and my husband, he's like, oh,

33:08

you are going through empty nest early. He's a little

33:10

concerned about me, but I'm like, no, really I enjoy

33:13

it and the dogs actually like my food. And

33:15

the people don't always, but the dogs

33:17

do. So there's that

33:19

part too. This

33:21

has been a wonderful conversation. It's

33:24

always a joy to talk to you and, I

33:26

would love for you to tell the listeners

33:28

about Cancer U and how they can get involved.

33:31

that would be great.

33:32

Yeah, Cancer U is an online platform for

33:34

cancer patients and caregivers to

33:38

educate, empower, and engage them to become

33:40

advocates for their care. And

33:42

you can go to cancer.university,

33:45

and that's the website. That's where all the social

33:48

media links are. We're pretty much Cancer

33:50

U University on every

33:52

social media platform, except

33:55

I think Facebook and Twitter. And there

33:57

were Cancer Youth Thrivers. And like you

33:59

mentioned, you were a guest on our podcast,

34:01

the Cancer Youth Thriver podcast.

34:03

This has been so pleasant. I love talking to you, Andrea.

34:06

I, wanna thank you for coming on the show again.

34:08

It was awesome. And thank you for being you. You

34:10

are a light, because I know that a lot of

34:12

people, when they go through cancer, they need that light

34:14

and they need to have questions answered. And

34:16

you're certainly one of those people who have been helping

34:19

and that's an amazing thing. I always think anybody

34:21

who gives their time to such daunting

34:25

illness and so to have somebody

34:27

help them through that is awesome. So

34:30

thank you.

34:31

Oh, thank you so much for having me.

34:32

For my listeners, thank you for listening.

34:34

If you love the show, please subscribe and

34:37

leave a review. And until next

34:39

time, have a blessed week.