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By. What is that people have internet? Welcome

0:55

back to another regularly scheduled episode of the

0:57

Waveform podcast Warehouse A Marquez. I'm Andrew and

0:59

I'm David. The actual they would not the

1:01

other David Pierce that you should all go

1:03

watch the episode that we just published earlier.

1:05

This our Smith that was yeah, well played,

1:07

well played. I was wondering I didn't write

1:09

that in the script and because you just

1:11

had a ready to go I actually didn't

1:14

have already ago. I just they just came

1:16

out as get yeah He if he didn't

1:18

really watch our productivity based apps. versus.

1:21

A lot hundred mess of her life. You

1:23

should check it out. It went up the

1:25

this past week and it's It's super fun

1:28

and it's prompted a lot of people to

1:30

diagnose us with various things which is totally

1:32

cool too. but I think it's still worth

1:34

watching. But this we the Iowa talk about

1:36

because we missed some stuff that technically happened

1:38

last week. As you know your court on

1:41

Wednesday is and then all the news happens

1:43

on Thursday and were like why did the

1:45

U S sue applicable After the record the

1:47

part gadgets crazy So we gotta lotta Galaxy

1:49

I had. A Talk about Dub

1:51

Dub Io F S de. Just.

1:54

All acronyms. Yeah, J The audio. Treasured Yeah.

1:56

So we're gonna talk or going to talk

1:58

about all that stuff. A

2:01

We should start with. That. She said

2:03

averse. Yes, Or with the

2:06

Federer has come here I am

2:08

not. Sigh: Use threads Why I

2:11

don't keep up as much

2:13

with Mastodon and others like

2:15

Blue Sky. Yeah, but there's

2:17

apparently finally some developments with

2:19

fab. Activity Pub and Clay

2:21

and all of them. So on to

2:23

explain what's happening because yeah, I might

2:25

have to change so this will probably

2:28

be a wider episode later on. That

2:30

for sort of working on my guess

2:32

what are these protocols mean? What is

2:34

the set of are sort of Activity

2:37

Public is all these acronyms and we're

2:39

to Members of Cheese his yeah, Plaza

2:41

Think and yes, half Federation. I'm okay.

2:43

so Threads is one of the platforms

2:46

that is starting to adopt Activity Pub,

2:48

which is this open standard published. By

2:50

the W three see which is the

2:52

World Wide Web Consortium because we love

2:54

standards groups I acronyms, they be standard

2:56

groups ah and effectively what it activity

2:59

pervez as you can kind of think

3:01

it of the think of it sort

3:03

of similarly to email. It's. Like

3:05

I could send a message on G mail.

3:07

I guess I didn't a message through outlook

3:09

but because it's a. Open.

3:12

Platform or an Open Am Protocol

3:15

protocol. purple figure. You

3:17

can receive. You're going to receive that

3:19

the same way no matter what platform

3:21

you're on. So if I am on

3:23

Threads which is now set a rating

3:25

which is a means they're using Activity

3:27

Pub. Ah, there's a lot of words.

3:29

The following is the best way for

3:31

the big yeah soon of my in

3:33

yeah the bigger ever have thought I'd

3:35

be every move back at them as

3:37

little bit easier. It's basically ah if

3:40

you. Post. Something on threads. If.

3:42

I bought some and threads and you on

3:44

Mastodon are following my threads account through Mastodon

3:47

which you can now do. You will see

3:49

my threads posts on Mastodon and there's a

3:51

lot of benefits to this. It allows you

3:53

to choose like what platform you wanna use

3:56

it on to hot back and forth between

3:58

always different platform how the time this is

4:00

a very big move over all because threads

4:02

has like a hundred million users which is

4:05

crazy ethic over a hundred million users a

4:07

blast attacks on her mind. lasted past and

4:09

first like couple months. And

4:12

the thing about Activity Pub is

4:14

theoretically the more platforms that start

4:17

to support it, the more interoperable

4:19

they become. the more incentive there

4:21

is for these clothes services like

4:23

Axe to support Activity Pub. And

4:26

because. The there's that all

4:28

the thing about the sticky mess of an

4:30

application ray. And there's these social grass. and

4:32

if your social graph. Is

4:34

on and activity pub enabled platform

4:36

that allows you to see them

4:39

their posts on whatever platform you're

4:41

using instead of only being able

4:43

to see their stuff on like

4:45

acts are are closed source platform.

4:47

you're gonna be more incentivized. To.

4:50

Cetera rates. I

4:53

think that's probably usually true. But.

4:55

In the cases acts formerly Twitter where

4:58

they're already one of the top ten

5:00

biggest web sites in the world, they

5:02

might not feel that press hard. Yeah.

5:06

Access by like. Pitsea.

5:09

Really? as if when you're that when you're

5:11

that big already as far as so yeah

5:13

as a social media platform for sure. but

5:16

then. but that thing as you could think

5:18

of like Mastodon plus threads as one social

5:20

media platform now right? and for the more

5:22

the more social media platforms the people are

5:24

using like every now and then. That said

5:26

or a kind of add to this is

5:29

the Lord that becomes the omega Social Media

5:31

be raises the floor cause if you if

5:33

you were to start like a brand new

5:35

social network today, you would definitely want to

5:37

be separated. You'd wanna. Have all of the

5:39

interoperability cause otherwise there's no one. I had

5:41

no idea that he. Yeah. So you if

5:43

your way down at the beginning you definitely

5:45

want to raise the floor to include that,

5:47

right? But. Once there is all

5:49

the competition of okay mine's different as as

5:52

these teachers my as different as it as

5:54

the see why are these rules or whatever

5:56

and then once years maybe starts to take

5:58

off. That's. Not as. Horton for

6:00

and if you never were in in the first

6:02

place singer seeing over here and you've got this

6:04

whole several your answers may have. there isn't much

6:06

as than syncing Lamichael Yeah, and that? yeah. I

6:08

think that. Like platforms like acts

6:10

that are not planning on said

6:12

or inning.have incentive to add activities

6:14

pub support in till a time

6:17

and which they become the non

6:19

dominant social plan here until it's

6:21

necessary for them to send your

6:23

rent. So anyway I'm. Metre.

6:25

Has been talking about adding. Activity.

6:28

Pub support for a long time. Which feels

6:30

weird and interesting because you know, martyrs or

6:32

good burger. Yeah, we're here like they don't

6:34

have it and they don't need it. You

6:36

bet on yeah, they're a big platform already.

6:39

They don't necessarily need to. There's a lot

6:41

of reasons why that makes sense from a

6:43

business perspective that Mark Zuckerberg has kind of

6:45

figured out. I think he's kind of the

6:48

king of making it seem like they're doing

6:50

things that are just like did for the

6:52

open web, but actually have like a really,

6:54

really good business incentive. Been at it hours.

6:57

They companies. The size. Any time

6:59

the make a public decision, there's

7:01

always is reason made tell you

7:03

via and the real reason exactly

7:05

and is probably one of yeah.

7:07

So anyway, Threads just opened the

7:09

set of hers beta in the

7:12

Us, Canada, and Japan. which basically

7:14

means if you turn this on

7:16

in your settings, people on Mastodon

7:18

or other federated activity, pub and

7:20

nibbled platforms can follow your Threads

7:23

account, so you on Mastodon can

7:25

follow David Ml. at threads.net. And

7:27

when I post something on threads you'll see I

7:30

must go the other way around. Now see of

7:32

that Enabled Yes, on threads you can follow people

7:34

on mastodon or other an Ipa. Yes of and

7:36

of this is. Right now the

7:38

beta is just making it available on

7:41

there, but there you wire would have.

7:43

yeah, doesn't have the capabilities. It's like

7:45

super beta titling. Ultimately what they want

7:47

to be able to happen is that

7:49

when people comment on mask and on

7:52

also be able to see those comments

7:54

on threads race. But right now. The

7:56

the of Mount of Beta that it is

7:58

right now is like. When I post things

8:01

on thread, people can see those a message on

8:03

and they can like and comment them. En.

8:06

Masse that on and they show up in

8:08

threads. But they don't show up and threads.

8:10

They will eventually both the highway. Now when

8:12

this is fully, when this is fully fleshed

8:14

out. What is this of? Like the news?

8:16

Let's say Mastodon, Blue Sky and Threads are

8:18

all set rate. In this is fully fleshed

8:20

out. A Blue Sky uses a different protocol

8:22

called the App protocol and probably Sky a

8:24

therapist and. Yo.

8:27

Second account of our. Citizens

8:30

of our is gonna be I didn't I think

8:32

my point is this and using by I want

8:34

to understand so they are fully saturated, name are

8:37

fully as of all plugged in a way to

8:39

be as to what does that look like? Okay

8:41

so perfect scenario. Ah. I. Have a

8:43

threads on that account. I don't necessarily

8:45

need a master message on account but

8:47

they both his activity pub So I'm

8:49

pub I'm posting on my threads account.

8:51

David Ml at Threads on that you

8:53

on mastodon are like oh David doesn't

8:55

Mms I count but I see has

8:57

read the cow. I can follow his

8:59

threads accounts z follow me on Massa

9:01

and because that's your primary application of

9:03

choice that you like to use, I'm

9:05

posting on threads. You see my post

9:07

eating comment like I can see your

9:09

comments and likes on threads so kind

9:11

of just feels. All like one giant native

9:14

social application or way I have a question

9:16

he has many clicks doesn't mass on have

9:18

with a lot of different servers. Those who

9:20

wouldn't you as a threads user need to

9:22

be in. The. Mass. We

9:25

are No No no. Because. On

9:27

the some of your following them then you're like. My

9:29

don't use mass it on but I thought

9:32

the servers was just like ways that you

9:34

can find people are like I'm I thought

9:36

it was a walled garden right now there

9:39

were so you can think of different massive

9:41

answer is that you join as like that

9:43

at threads.net it's where you being hosted right

9:45

right and sellers different massive on servers can

9:48

have different moderation tool. They can have different

9:50

like all these different things but the content

9:52

stream The reason it's called activity pub it's

9:55

because your activity is being published. That activity

9:57

could be a like it could be a.

9:59

Real. We're gonna get law Man rate.

10:02

Is this if I may also is like

10:05

maybe this is an affair analogy But like

10:07

with Rss and like to podcasts, where's that

10:09

includes a light Jarosik? the map I think

10:11

Legacy This is the one thing I feel

10:13

like I kind of understand is a perfect

10:15

scenario aspect of it Were essentially. People.

10:18

Are posting on social media platform and and

10:20

you just get to take how you on

10:22

interact with that So like I was about

10:24

as on spotify of you use I'm artist

10:27

got all the it's like Mike A Cast

10:29

Google plans or yeah Potter yes like pretty

10:31

much that. It's like we're all looking at

10:33

the insidious rollicking at the same information but

10:35

we're looking at a on in different ways

10:37

the things that just sit us better which

10:40

is why some of my questions might not

10:42

have perfectly answers on like if someone has

10:44

amassed it on account and logs in and

10:46

sees my threads activity and follows my. Threads

10:48

account is that follower get added

10:51

to my the Reds profile. Because.

10:54

Right now that's not how park guesswork

10:56

I'm not sure about that's on another

10:58

can be an answer right away and

11:00

like if I follow you and pocket

11:02

Tess Apple podcasts has no idea. Ah

11:04

Ren and if some activity that I

11:07

pub post on threads shows up on

11:09

your mass it on. Timeline

11:11

and you engage with

11:13

it. That. Shows up to

11:15

people who don't have a massive i count

11:17

they're just on the threads app isn't and

11:19

then they are apply to you. Does.

11:22

That. Allow them to follow or

11:24

see your Mastodon activity in threads. I

11:26

think it will once it's fully built

11:28

out. Okay, yeah, it's gonna be like

11:30

one giant social network and away. So

11:32

this kind of already exists with apps

11:34

that are already federated. So for example,

11:37

like Instagram, there's this app called Pixel

11:39

Said where if you post a picture

11:41

on Pixel Said and I'm following that

11:43

account on my method on the picture

11:45

will just show up on my message

11:47

on feed the Oven. If I like

11:49

it. you will see that like across

11:51

the platforms. Yeah, The activity

11:53

pub protocol standardizes a bunch of

11:56

different social actions Yeah, so that

11:58

you can still have like. He

12:00

learned apps that are at like pixel fed

12:02

that are more Instagram like that are focused

12:04

on Instagram. If I go to Pixel that

12:06

I only really see photos by it. If

12:08

I'm on threads I can follow that. Pixels

12:10

had accounts. I can just see your photos

12:12

mixed with the other stuff. I'm. That's

12:14

interesting. So the reason to be on

12:16

a different version of this giant social

12:19

mess would be to tailored different features

12:21

are content to your like you know,

12:23

way English in a way it's almost

12:25

like when we had like Falcon and

12:27

like all the different Twitter clients because

12:30

it was just a different way to

12:32

experience Twitter. Such. Sure yeah

12:34

yeah because this way you can get a

12:36

different user interface. you can get different features

12:38

but you can also sort of followed different

12:41

people different styles of content through an Rss

12:43

style. their yeah there was a how everyone's

12:45

like wow Instagram today's just videos is all

12:47

reels or one was just pictures he is

12:49

it could jump on the one I mean

12:52

by now Michelle the pets right so instead

12:54

of everyone having to it's because thing about

12:56

to get this is a great example thing

12:58

my this the amount of new apps that

13:00

come out that are like we're going to

13:03

be the new. Instagram were focusing around just

13:05

photos or even there's like ones are coming

13:07

out now that are like just film photography

13:09

and I'm like how are you going to

13:11

get a user base with that sustainable announced

13:14

you're being that nice. But if you're federated,

13:16

Suddenly. It doesn't matter like you don't

13:18

have to get people to sign up for a new

13:20

app. You can just like. Ball. Eaten

13:23

just have an app that specifically

13:25

only feeds you that. Contact.

13:28

So it's cool. I'll think it's a good

13:30

it all sounds really cool. There's. Some

13:32

points of is when you're explaining that sounds so

13:34

much like a like Zz pitch. have liked what

13:37

if you could do this thing on Instagram but

13:39

over here and in the things you like didn't

13:41

miss app you can do I'm here and lights

13:43

and everything you like all in one yeah promise

13:45

it'll work the differences This is open so it

13:48

may I go to have rejected everyone to think

13:50

that's with a funny about it is that like

13:52

it feels like that are no yeah I saw

13:54

interesting with of yours. Ever heard of Active World's.

13:57

Know he was like this weird part. I

14:00

social network is a really describe it. It's like

14:02

sort of similar to second lowest Kenneth lay with

14:04

as like sec what? It was sort of intended

14:07

to be somewhere in between like a web browser

14:09

and a message board. it but. In

14:11

this style of a second lifestyle game

14:13

and it feels very much like this.

14:15

Like the whole idea is that there

14:17

would be all of these like community

14:19

moderated servers are worlds and then on

14:21

their people would like stick. Images.

14:24

On the walls and online town Square. but

14:26

yeah if you sit I was at his

14:28

house sitter my my eyes roll down score

14:30

as I had never heard of that product.

14:33

never gotten like click on any would open

14:35

a web page or like a browser they

14:37

were you. I'd post messages like that and

14:39

it was sort of like all and evil.

14:41

A was really cool and like all the

14:43

world's had like very different rules and flavors

14:45

and like moderation policies. And if you're sort

14:47

of like. A. Version of that were

14:50

you don't need to fall on enter the Matrix

14:52

Yeah. Doesn't mean mastodon kind of

14:54

like that. know amp? Yeah, no exact yams.

14:56

the same ideas I am anyway. I think

14:58

it's like a it's It's just that. The

15:01

more apps that you can get saturated,

15:03

the more people are. get him like

15:05

small smaller nice apps like Instagram but

15:07

only photos are going to be incentivized

15:10

to make something that is federated because

15:12

people can just tap into it directly

15:14

instead of having to grow a user

15:16

base that's going to be super freak.

15:18

and Arda to Singers Threads is federated.

15:21

but Instagram silly. it never would be

15:23

He I don't think answer M as

15:25

ever find his face fascinating here. They

15:27

make too much money being tic toc

15:29

Cs via. Cell phone.

15:31

Oh. speaking of totally different worlds,

15:35

Ah, Two. Very

15:37

different developer conferences. Invites

15:40

one out yet that house for he

15:42

thought. yeah the lights Yes! Ah, Google

15:44

has six assists up a doodle, an

15:47

apple both announced their. A

15:49

developer conference dates this summer, Google Io

15:51

and Worldwide Help or Conference. Being Apple's

15:53

com we expect very different things that

15:56

each of these I guess but on

15:58

the not real issue is. Well,

16:00

we expect similar things in different

16:02

styles. Yeah, we expect a I

16:04

from both of them. Yeah, well,

16:06

maybe I'm getting ahead of myself,

16:08

but jaws tweeted it's going to

16:10

be absolutely incredible with both of

16:12

those where they capitalized a in

16:14

absolutely and I an incredible. Capital

16:17

Ah, He thinks we're twelve seasons

16:19

of yeah I probably we are

16:21

got that's but I think yeah.

16:23

We all kind of been waiting for

16:26

this a Eyes thing from Apple

16:28

for forever. and it's this, the invited

16:30

to Siri colors and like We've been

16:32

hearing all these murmurings about you

16:34

know, sad C P T and open

16:37

A I but also Gemini and Google

16:39

and like when his Apple actually

16:41

going to do with a I on

16:43

the ice on? Even lately I've

16:45

seen. Bomb. As

16:48

I've had just random mentions of Ai from

16:50

Apple where they're like, oh yeah, we've been

16:52

an Ai company the whole time. like we've

16:54

had the most advanced neural engine on our

16:57

Amazon concepts for years now and like, yeah,

16:59

you kids, I guess I could just start

17:01

saying that Now you're not wrong, but you

17:03

haven't. Been saying it like

17:05

that until just recently. I have

17:08

time for saying I would argue

17:10

they are wrong as if you

17:12

could, you could silo in an

17:14

argument or is there like succinctly

17:16

right but also mired in I

17:18

is that an incredible amount of.

17:21

Things. That people are branding as a I

17:23

Now we're just machine learning that's been happening

17:25

for a very long time and Sonic as

17:27

Apple had never Apple never says a I

17:29

Bread and I made a whole video but

17:31

have one ever says Ai and and just

17:33

recently this are being like oh yeah we

17:35

only have access It was may I for

17:37

know reset it happened to her. I know

17:40

we say machine learning and neurons and I

17:42

thought that like yeah this is are they

17:44

gonna suddenly say I a thousand times on

17:46

Saves the Seer Dub Dub I think they

17:48

just wait a really long time to make

17:50

sure that something is. Acts like a

17:52

new categories actually sticking before they associate

17:54

themselves. It's a every feature in the

17:56

I phone pretty much it's like. All

17:59

of the. Features have been out already and

18:01

then they just like waited till it was

18:04

definitely popular. Polish the hell out of the

18:06

Ams and parts it out. Yeah popular or

18:08

like offered. Real. Real. Utility

18:10

to their customers because I think there are plenty

18:12

of things that you get off. We could argue

18:15

or way way early in other phones but didn't

18:17

really offer utility and then it took extra years

18:19

for people figure out how this is actually good

18:21

for. Ps. yeah, I'm. I'm. And

18:24

there's so many little isn't I'm very

18:26

very interested in what besides? like. Better.

18:28

Syria like a fully revamps

18:30

like. Transformer. Best

18:32

Theory which I really hope exists. Ah,

18:34

they're going to add because they're to

18:37

I. Really? Don't think they're gonna

18:39

do like a I wallpapers and all of

18:41

that kind of stuff, right? There's lots of

18:43

those little things that others have done first

18:45

that aren't necessarily that useful. Like, yeah, wallpapers,

18:48

But. Then there are some things that I

18:50

think are obvious wins like where they've already

18:53

done the keyboard they've already done by we

18:55

better out of Whitson accused by the way

18:57

I feel like has made the keyboard worse

19:00

and Max the haven't noticed anything different for

19:02

me is seals like thought about auto suggestions

19:04

and on a cracked have just gotten way

19:06

worse. If I'm not typing a word that's

19:09

like are commonly used Like this morning I

19:11

was trying to type the word a treaties

19:13

and my someones is like I'm in was

19:15

not that's not a phone. Interview

19:19

at it from it's a Zune thing and

19:21

okay how they had a dog where they

19:23

would naturally yeah get that will that in

19:25

an inner it's It's not like it was

19:27

trying to like it would. It's not like

19:30

out finish the word correctly and then it

19:32

would do it like if. Because. It does

19:34

the predictive yell at letters coming next yet.

19:36

so if it's if it's really struggles to

19:38

know like it's almost the the touchscreen is

19:40

useless, especially on my list. Tiny mini. Some

19:42

near true to a trade is it's. And.

19:45

It's not a we're I'm just sad.

19:47

just slightly above frittata for me. Oh

19:49

and I saw rightly above it. I

19:52

just don't think our know how to

19:54

spell it's yeah But also like trends,

19:56

her reserved are trained on the commonality

19:58

of house serve in. The I used

20:01

around here where it's in the

20:03

most popular movie right now. right?

20:06

Address. I'll

20:09

get a little pony or as he soon

20:11

I saw insane. Either of them know how

20:13

insane and a host besides Dallas to seems

20:15

a lot of see dude was my oh

20:18

that was a tray. Isn't it a trainees?

20:20

Yes, By my argument is that they're fictional

20:22

names and characters. yeah places. Absolutely that they're

20:24

not going on able to know who you

20:27

are typing them into their i thought you

20:29

ever That's not how this is trained. It's.

20:32

Not no real time. it's trained on like

20:34

an existing data set of common words. Really?

20:36

Yeah, sounds like probably up to like twenty

20:38

twenty two or yeah and also other people.

20:41

So there is a mechanism in the new

20:43

Iowa Seventeen keyboard that learns based on the

20:45

way that you type rent but it doesn't

20:47

learn based on the a way that other

20:49

I phone users that I mean I'm a

20:51

fake same of the just as as outlined

20:54

how she has a number of on really

20:56

not typing authorities. Yeah yeah it's a D

20:58

as I know. That's a great point actually

21:00

though because I feel like that's Apple's. Whole

21:02

problem thus far is that they don't

21:04

have that giant a set of when

21:06

their use is why I'm probably going

21:08

to use Gemini. The whole argument: they

21:10

don't like their whole thing as security

21:12

and we don't scraper data and we

21:14

don't scrape other people didn't give us

21:16

other people and with large hundred model

21:18

that kind of boned yeah I want

21:21

to point out of cypress. I want

21:23

to paint this as clearly as possible

21:25

in order to have a really and

21:27

we've I've phrases many different ways. but

21:29

in order to have the smartest possible

21:31

most useful A I. Like think of a

21:33

think of a real human. Assistance is gonna help you

21:35

out. In. Order for that person

21:37

to be the most helpful for you. They.

21:40

Need to know everything about you. right?

21:42

If they're going to start scheduling your flights, they

21:44

need to know how do you like window seat

21:46

the like the usually flat of this airport, the

21:49

like United or Delta State to know everything about

21:51

you and so. If you're.

21:53

Knowing. Everything about someone. You have

21:56

a lot of data on them and

21:58

and minimal privacy. But Apple's holes. And

22:00

and their whole policy is to keep

22:02

a little data as possible none if

22:04

they to help it and to know

22:06

nothing about you and to keep everything

22:08

private as much as possible. Yeah which

22:10

is great and very noble and super

22:12

out the bigger is my lot of

22:14

people like the I phone but now

22:16

that means they by definition I think

22:18

cannot build the most helpful assistant that

22:20

knows everything about you. Yeah. And. So

22:22

how does Apple get around this Like Apple's Googles

22:25

out here know everything about you and give him

22:27

you all the information of the hearts of we

22:29

Will my pillow. Can we rely on both? Eight

22:31

hour before you know you want that? It's like

22:33

I know about to wake up. Some sort of

22:35

us are helping out with our things and eat

22:37

for breakfast like a nosy, super wealthy and so

22:39

they're able to offer. I was helpful stuff with

22:41

people like do they partner. That

22:43

a compromise on that? that. That

22:46

policy that they have. To. Let

22:48

Google and the Door to Collect or eat or

22:50

two at least use the data they already have

22:52

and collect on the eye on what you've with

22:54

is what I was your argument Exactly Google has

22:56

collected, saw my state over the I'm an I

22:58

think Apple says can be like are going to

23:01

use last and is that data. A

23:03

one to one matter what they need or

23:05

do I phone users may be use their

23:07

phone slowly differently than the all the other

23:09

uses they already have and another chemical months

23:11

it seems more focused around. March language

23:14

models I would guess. Yeah, and like natural

23:16

language processing, so they'll probably use it for

23:18

siri. I. Don't really

23:20

see them using it for a lot of

23:22

other stuff, which is why I'm actually very

23:24

curious cause if this whole debate of he

23:26

sees spurs be focused around a I I

23:29

imagine they're going to like for multiple of

23:31

their products. Say. We added some

23:33

sort of ai to them, but what else

23:35

besides theory could they add? A I'd say

23:38

that would make like a large stand firm

23:40

in the reminders. I was. is

23:42

it The rumor did say like I was

23:44

eighteen? ratings features so was plural so there

23:46

are potentially many different things in there that

23:49

it could be added to. I guess. Like

23:51

and when. Just as absolutely incredible, it assumes

23:53

that that can be like the theme of

23:55

this year. Yeah, so the party? Plenty of

23:57

I'm I'm super interested in. Both.

24:00

The be happening and they're being a connection. Are they

24:02

going to talk about each other during their cars

24:04

like groups are Apple has to talk about good now

24:06

merely you think the decide on paper got what

24:08

you think they just a Gemini. I think they're

24:10

even gonna say you don't think they're going to a

24:12

gym my at all I would say that's probably

24:14

part of the deal is that they don't have

24:16

the men's and google at all he was the real

24:18

Our business is only my ever mentioned do I

24:20

was a glittering a partner this is gonna be

24:22

away form bet is to know that it was before

24:25

we get to their did they mention. Group.

24:27

When Google became a default search in Safari sedate.

24:29

talk bad about it. Also long was it ever

24:31

not the defaulters. I think the immunize ago it

24:34

was like a D M Yes and yes and

24:36

and now was like back in two thousand Eight

24:38

Okay yeah when they are very different live in

24:40

the now almost not worth Men were made an

24:43

Apple announced. Rcs without an event

24:45

for just the now now earned and pressure

24:47

lesser least A was only it was

24:49

even a press release of engage Us

24:51

when our in yeti seen others that they

24:53

quit smoking because yeah it was an

24:55

impressively I as a you'll be really

24:57

interesting aim. I know that these

25:00

companies look like they top each other's teachers

25:02

allowed. So when I'm trying to predict what

25:04

they're going to do on literally looking at

25:06

what's happened with the past couple google events

25:08

and even same sense like circled the search.

25:11

Time and interesting feature, right? Something's on my screen

25:13

I want to just like quickly. Search.

25:16

That thing online and bring his results

25:18

that be interesting. or maybe. I.

25:20

Message: See start planning a trip in a

25:22

group chat maybe this little assistant clip He

25:25

bought thumbs down and said telling you planned

25:27

a trip it is that the club the

25:29

because it's Apple not Microsoft. but you know

25:31

I'm looking at other threads parallel feature. yeah

25:34

sufficient. just as head of those that looks

25:36

like you're trying to plan. Yeah, that's that's

25:38

my thought process for trying to figure out

25:40

what our of and Siri Apple could be

25:43

doing with a I. yeah I mean considering

25:45

they update pretty much every Oh, as for

25:47

all of their devices, hopefully we're gonna see

25:50

something coming. To like the watson.

25:52

I. Pad I pod compile had how

25:54

that was in his room. Oh

25:56

my question because member google they

25:58

announced Gemini with. Like three different versions.

26:00

I can't which one was supposed be on the

26:03

phone? Pico some the nana nana think you know

26:05

I'm. Apple. Has watches.

26:07

They have ear buds like there's

26:09

so many other things. computers. Yeah.

26:12

What is it gonna be a good the just

26:14

plugged in Southend Gemini Nana gets put on the

26:17

Apple watch and of and to watch the as

26:19

going to say Nano gets put on the phone.

26:22

As someone who it? yeah like probably but

26:24

and run goes on know on the lot

26:26

of there's multiple features coming to multiple devices.

26:29

I just don't see it being a one

26:31

to one six to like other things here

26:33

and will also Okay so there there's the

26:35

distinction between like local ai and cloud based

26:38

Ayaz wire. The local stuff is the best

26:40

experience. usually it's the fastest like the live

26:42

translation that he does down other language model

26:44

of wherever you can do like translation on

26:47

the device that's usually awesome which an Apple

26:49

was pretty. Last. Of you'd have

26:51

a D C. They mentioned a lot of

26:53

local learning like being incorporated. So many different

26:56

things around this like a an aspect of

26:58

they're going to keep the local stuff themselves

27:00

and I think South Source that kind. I

27:02

actually believe that their rumor when we talked

27:04

about the So I think two weeks ago

27:06

maybe this happens. The rumor was specifically that

27:09

Apple was outsourcing it's a Google for the

27:11

cloud based Ai stuff I forget about was

27:13

that. but it's I remember the article very

27:15

much. Feeling. Like Gemini wasn't taking over

27:17

all of that. Yeah that it was appointed years and

27:19

that this is going to be kind of split and

27:21

I think it's mostly can be for the clouds does

27:24

suffer. Yeah, So. Yeah

27:26

to be interesting and then of course

27:28

Google Io our which we make the

27:30

bet first. Oh yeah sorry do with

27:32

is it is. Do we think they

27:34

mentioned Google or Gemini? Do a thing

27:36

or a word. Google is set on

27:38

state or or Gemini. google. Or

27:40

Gemini? Where do we think like? I

27:42

don't think they say either You either.

27:44

What do you think? Wow has a

27:46

tough one. I think

27:49

if we really think they're partnering in

27:51

and news I don't I don't think

27:53

actually will be partnering someone to go

27:55

with know you like their own. Think

27:57

that the rumors fall I think. Yeah.

28:00

Really Really, they're going to try to do

28:02

as much on device as possible and that's

28:04

gonna be this. their hill that they die on

28:06

and they're going to want to overtime be able

28:08

to bring more and more things on device,

28:10

but they might just take a stance against

28:12

going to the cloud for the slugs that

28:14

are serious. And. Yep. Series

28:16

Bad? Yeah, that's then I me. I

28:18

don't know if they know how bad

28:21

series, but yeah, I think that that's

28:23

more likely that they distracted everything local

28:25

and on device that they're not send

28:27

your information somewhere in and hopefully at

28:29

doesn't give reasonably but you can incorporate

28:32

Gemini into things were Gemini is pulling

28:34

from all the other sources it's learning

28:36

from by good. Apple doesn't have to

28:38

put your stuff into a race or

28:40

yeah, I don't think they're Apple will

28:42

use a local Gemini model. I think

28:45

they'll only use Gemini. For cloud based a

28:47

I that they need the club for. I think

28:49

if they do use Gemini then I gotta say

28:51

the least one out the going to set it

28:53

up at all. Okay let's assume that they will

28:56

use them and okay I got. I think that

28:58

they will say. The. Name Alice had aired

29:00

Not going to say amen to say they're going to say.

29:03

google. And Gemini and on the various A

29:05

either. Or I'm saying it as a.

29:07

I think will be fun if they do have

29:09

others. This girl less was I think they're how

29:12

yeah I like as bad as they get that

29:14

okay of the events such as a for yeah

29:16

google also were just looking at we're just gonna

29:18

skip decision o S. That

29:20

the whole know a thing of like we expect

29:22

vision pro updates probably and they have a D

29:24

C. yeah but we don't know if they will

29:26

be. I was actually thinking about that last week.

29:28

it was like it's kind of exciting but now

29:30

we get me whole big updates for of division

29:32

prose While yeah that that's kind of more like

29:34

because usually they introduce I phone features that we

29:36

didn't even think of more like. A macaw

29:38

sense that's really doubt? yeah. And is that gonna

29:40

happen for Vision Pro or that they're probably just

29:42

going to introduce the things that people have been

29:44

complaining about how it is so benign which would

29:46

be nice. My guess is at the rid of

29:48

a D C we're going to see a lot

29:50

of. Especially the first time around.

29:52

It's only that off her few months, it's

29:55

gonna be like a bunch of different programs

29:57

that helps developers create inside of it better

29:59

were us. Three won't have any idea what

30:01

any of their really? No. definitely the highlight.

30:03

like how many how many apps have come

30:05

out for it since launch and things like

30:07

and on. the the highlights and the best

30:09

that's and oh Persona is are out of

30:11

beta now either their Version One.won or something

30:13

in their better, The Last, and stuff like

30:15

that. Now I think the of minor. Vision.

30:18

Of us thing is ago I think so I

30:20

mean minor the minor to a minor to the

30:22

consumer the answer developers will be don't really have

30:24

been out for four months i the com debate

30:27

over the to be happen. so yeah it's fair.

30:29

By. The add that to the list of like

30:32

nineteen O s is that they that? Yeah, exactly.

30:34

Radio as it is, you know, as I owe

30:36

us, Mack the Last, etc or okay, google Io

30:38

google. We've. Seen and with

30:41

leaks is possible. Pixel was it A

30:43

and we I think expect that to

30:45

finally be unveiled at least and then

30:47

know. Wish they would just drop it

30:50

with the mainline phones and and be

30:52

on the same number. Yeah nothing stopping

30:54

them. Yes, Nothing

30:57

is it.google just I had to finish them. says they

30:59

make a three hundred, have the I phone and google

31:01

the five hundred dollars. Now yeah, they don't wanna minutes

31:03

on a overshadow? They're more expensive homes. Who would buy

31:05

a nine hundred? Our Pixel if the three nurses our

31:07

picks up came out the same day. Yeah

31:10

we were. we were also time. I have a

31:12

a is basically the A Yeah so I guess

31:14

the has set aside from and I get it.

31:17

I take that Yeah for me it's like I

31:19

made the cycle or a Fresh and Away or

31:21

like a mid cycle like hey yeah in by

31:23

the slightly cut down one. I guess we're expecting

31:25

no updates on Na Gemini on the phone. Vs

31:27

assisted on the phone. Can. I was

31:29

little a moment in time. It's not clear

31:31

why people should be moving from one of

31:34

the other. I do have a. Potential.

31:36

Theory and it might be too early for

31:38

this, but. I assume we

31:40

can probably assume that the eventual

31:43

plan is to either deprecate Assistant

31:45

or deprecate Gemini and eventually merge

31:48

them into one more. Actually

31:50

probably gonna happen as because. right?

31:52

Now. Gemini hit beneficial

31:54

naming of Whites. google.

31:57

gemini powered by gemini ultra one point

31:59

five or something like that and I

32:01

think they're doing that very intentionally so

32:03

that they can like get recognition

32:06

for the model so that

32:08

later they can say Google

32:11

assistant is now powered by Gemini ultra

32:13

2.4 So

32:16

it's still the model so I imagine

32:18

and this is just a theory that

32:20

maybe at this Google I o they'll announce

32:23

They're working on merging them so

32:25

that everything is just Google assistant again I thought

32:27

you were gonna say the more Google thing of

32:29

kill both of them It's

32:35

called Google Messenger It's

32:37

called hangouts. I do

32:39

think I do hope we see something

32:41

though That's not this make the decision

32:43

between assistant on your phone or Gemini.

32:46

Yeah, that's absurd They they

32:48

need to mix them there eventually I assume going

32:50

to mix them But I I just would like

32:52

that to happen sooner rather than later. Yeah, that's

32:55

honestly the biggest update. I'm expecting obviously

32:57

Android updates as well in general,

33:00

but Yeah, very different

33:02

style. Yeah so

33:04

similar question before Assuming

33:07

Gemini is going to

33:09

the iPhone does Google talk

33:11

about Apple? No and

33:14

how they're gonna be Powering thing

33:16

on the iPhone maybe I was like

33:18

it's also funny because it's earlier than

33:20

WWDC Oh, yeah, they couldn't

33:22

they can't they can't they would know you

33:24

don't think so I don't think Apple is

33:26

because it would yeah because Apple hasn't announced

33:28

anything AI related imagine soon door on stage

33:31

Like by the way, we're gonna power whatever

33:33

Apple is coming out with in the next

33:35

month the heat they might say

33:37

something like we've We've established

33:39

some leading industry partners that you're

33:42

getting are gonna be exciting and the go be cryptic

33:44

about that Yeah, I do think it's harder, but

33:46

they have Announced things before

33:48

like with Samsung before Samsung's announced

33:50

things right at I know it's

33:52

different I know I know

33:54

I'm just saying it's not that wild and then

33:56

I'm just saying yeah, no, they'll be I'm sure

33:58

they'll announce some and feature stuff that we

34:01

don't be coming. I hope they do. I hope

34:03

they say something about working with Apple. Here's the

34:05

bet. Before Apple. Here's the, I would love this

34:07

bet. Here's another one. Who will say AI more

34:09

on stage and why is it Google? Google. Yeah.

34:12

Google. They will say it. Google is

34:14

taking what they did last year and they're amping it

34:16

up. Wait, actually here's the bet. Will

34:19

Google say AI more or less times than

34:21

last I-O? Yeah, what's the over-under? Yeah, what

34:23

is last I-O? Really? Like 150 or something?

34:25

Oh, let me just find that out real

34:27

quick, Andrew. I'm

34:30

waiting. Someone's gotta get the super

34:32

cut. Get the super cut machine ready

34:35

because we gotta use that to count how many times we say. It

34:37

was 137. Yeah,

34:39

we could throw that into D-strip. I'd say 150. Dang.

34:43

Wow, okay. Yeah.

34:46

Over-under 150. It's

34:50

150 and a half. It's saying more over.

34:52

You remember that last presentation, right? They literally

34:54

were saying it nonstop. It's like

34:56

every sentence. I'm

34:58

going under because I think

35:00

they'll say more different types of buzzwords, like

35:02

models and large language and stuff like that.

35:06

They're gonna say multimodal like eight times as

35:08

many times as they did last time. They

35:11

need to flex what's different about Gemini

35:13

versus the other models and unless GPT-5

35:16

comes out, which I'm assuming is going

35:18

to be multimodal, unless that

35:20

comes out before I-O, they're gonna flex the

35:22

hell out of it. So what's your over-under?

35:26

Over 137. I'm

35:30

under. I

35:32

would say if Google wants to flex, they should pretend

35:35

to just move on from AI. They

35:37

should be like... I agree. Other companies

35:39

are just now getting to AI. We're

35:41

on to S-AI,

35:43

super advanced AI. Oh, God. Here we are.

35:45

We're branding it smart though. Super smart AI.

35:48

We're smart AI. AI type

35:50

R. Do you think... Oh

35:52

my God. I think Apple at Dub Dub mentions

35:55

Google. They'll say gift from Google.

35:59

How'd you think that... In to do it in a

36:01

messenger the thought of his father there will

36:03

be. Okay, so

36:05

ah yeah, I'm going. Under.

36:09

Because. I do think that eventually said terminology

36:11

a gonna just get tired and people are

36:13

it's gonna be the same as machine learning,

36:15

big data internet of things. It's the same

36:18

with all of these buzzwords. like everyone uses

36:20

them for a while said that the stock

36:22

price goes up and then eventually when it's

36:24

the industry norm people to start stop target

36:26

or in the thick of it and I

36:28

feel like we're in the second round the

36:30

back of a by. Also think the last

36:32

year with thicker. Ah,

36:35

I would argue this years there's more

36:37

going on. I think it's more in

36:39

the public knowledge of his then last

36:42

year apple says it's so little that

36:44

it has. This is the first year

36:46

they say ai a hundred times on

36:48

stage everyone's ships lifted from that. Is

36:51

there an Ai boat? Which is why do

36:53

have the chance to like separate themselves again.

36:55

Blake's we were beyond a I were even

36:57

better were in the Galaxy. Speaking.

37:00

Owns didn't Galaxy The Galaxy I got. I'm

37:02

going over. I think that I've known as

37:04

I agree with both of you that goes.

37:07

next year I'm seconds. Anything. Women are sounder.

37:09

A careless. Ah, I'm

37:11

gonna take ownership over. Really?

37:14

See. I think

37:16

they're going to start on pace to be over

37:18

as soon. Doesn't open with a monologue about an

37:20

if I run on his age and yell a

37:22

i have my sister Does that count? Yes. It

37:26

really matter that they have. I got my

37:28

more than once and minute every minute of

37:30

Ios. The Ios and hours exactly what on

37:32

a Hidalgo invited us, but they easily have

37:35

been. They did that last year. As I

37:37

say it's I'm Adam. and

37:39

taken that dude every twenty seconds for two

37:41

hours if they hit the i i think

37:43

this is i want to go back and

37:45

watch some of the early minutes of last

37:47

years i have such as far as great

37:49

as the here in and seventy if a

37:52

partner with that audio company i was that

37:54

a i can target three their i'm almost

37:56

expecting some sort of meme about it at

37:58

some point where they just go ai A.I.

38:00

A.I. A.I. A.I. A.I. A.I. Just

38:02

as like a Whopper song. Whopper,

38:04

Whopper. Chicken, Whopper. Yeah, I

38:07

don't know if Google would meme it, but... I'm

38:10

going under. Alright.

38:13

I'll use that beautiful segue again. Speaking

38:15

of... I just wanted to mention,

38:18

some of those Galaxy AI features that were on the Galaxy

38:20

S24, that we were like, wow, thanks

38:22

to the new Snapdragon chip, they can do this, circle

38:24

to search really fast, and they can do all this

38:26

stuff. Yeah, it's on the S23 now. Yeah, it's also

38:28

not thanks to the Snapdragon chip, because it's on a

38:30

Pixel as well. Yeah. So, fuck.

38:33

That whole exclusive thing. Yeah.

38:35

Yeah. Every year, it's

38:37

always like, only on

38:40

the newest Snapdragon can we enable this, and

38:42

then two months later, they're like, we figured

38:44

out a way. Who was... Wow.

38:48

We could have thought. You're a great dude.

38:50

Totally not playing off the lessons. Okay, wait. I have

38:52

a question about that. Do

38:55

you think it's a hardware thing, where

38:57

they're physically holding back hardware, like,

38:59

chips exclusively for like two

39:02

months, or is it like a software thing? No,

39:04

it's completely software. It's

39:06

a device that gives you a reason to buy

39:08

the new. To buy the new. Yeah. But

39:10

in theory then, if you were to get

39:13

a new device that has that chip, could you just enable

39:15

it yourself? But it's not even about the chip. That's the

39:17

thing. Yeah, I don't think it's even

39:19

about the chip. It's always about the

39:21

chip, but it's never about the chip. We have

39:24

a new device here, and there's very little new.

39:26

So we're going to take some of these software

39:28

features and lock them to the new device, so

39:30

that when this launches, it looks like a more

39:33

impressive delta. And then three or four weeks, or

39:35

maybe a month or two later, we go, all

39:37

right, sales spike

39:39

is over. Yeah. All right, you guys

39:41

can have it too. Exactly. This is actually something

39:43

we could put on all of our devices. So it's just

39:45

a software release. It's a lie. Which, you know, to be

39:47

fair, I should be... I'm

39:50

grateful that they put it on the older devices. They don't have

39:52

to. Obviously, they're taking the time

39:54

to support older devices, so I'm happy about

39:56

that. They're going

39:58

to do it anyway, because... the hardware and

40:00

phones isn't giving you the big new feature

40:03

that you want to upgrade your phone for.

40:05

Software is so like. This her going

40:07

to like a one way or another. I guess we

40:09

should be. Nets. Maybe. Not

40:11

happy but I'm glad that yes be

40:13

sporadic. Hope that assess yeah what I

40:15

mean no idea Don't have to do

40:17

as they will likely to make you

40:20

buy new phone. The sales grass is

40:22

like release. Three.

40:24

Months later, we're here and there Like I

40:27

eat it. I could throw, but. Yeah,

40:30

so ah yeah. But the funny thing

40:32

about that is they never actually said

40:34

it was going to stay free. They

40:36

said it was free until at least

40:38

twenty twenty five. For what teacher for

40:40

for all the galaxy I feature no

40:42

Way guy in the fine print it

40:44

says free and til at least twenty

40:46

twenty five years in business. Vital

40:48

know the reason I have not been using the

40:50

Ai features on my phone be I can. He

40:52

wanted to turn it on others as they know

40:55

their by the way Adam the things as he

40:57

doesn't use things that he doesn't wanna later want

40:59

to use if he switches devices. so he when

41:01

he's on an I phone he doesn't use I'm

41:04

as as which I can tell it's really healthy

41:06

healthy I think I think it's a sign. Need

41:08

cross platform piazza Yes everything Everything I buses yeah

41:10

but I turned it off eventually. Yeah I turned

41:12

it on every once in a ball z with

41:15

see what it's like that my time and then

41:17

just turn off the bat. When everyone on

41:19

a debutante Dang man. yeah, I respect

41:21

that. The and also I'd you're missing

41:23

out on a lot of several thirds

41:25

of pretty thick Cs outweighs yeah, but

41:27

I don't want to pay for that

41:29

something. I can use it, I see.

41:32

Yeah, I. Would. They charge. So

41:34

okay might. My theory is that you're

41:36

hooked. Me: Yeah, it's it's. it's a

41:38

semi. Yes, my theory is that they

41:40

are. testing the waters to see

41:42

how much people actually use these a

41:44

i see tears and if it starts

41:46

being a lights that means it's gonna

41:48

cost them a lot of in france

41:50

costs to google or sit or it's

41:52

ah open hire whoever they're using has

41:54

their back and me they have to

41:56

pay on like up her you spaces

41:58

query your query and so So if it

42:00

ends up costing a lot of money, they'll

42:02

probably start charging. And they have a huge user

42:04

base. They have the option to start charging people.

42:06

That's why they said free until at least 2025.

42:09

They're like, we're gonna wait and see, but

42:12

this does cost a lot of money, so let's figure

42:14

it out. Would it be

42:16

fair to say that we don't know

42:18

how much something like this would cost,

42:20

like period? Like every single person constantly

42:23

pinging data centers and running transformer models?

42:25

OpenAI has, like they have transparent costs

42:28

for queries and stuff, for like different

42:30

types of queries. But like at

42:33

a mass adoption scale, like could

42:35

that have the potential to actually

42:38

like cost billions of dollars and

42:40

not be sustainable at all? Correct.

42:44

No further questions? That's sort

42:46

of the trade off you have to make is

42:49

like you could train your own models, but training

42:51

your own models costs hundreds of millions if not

42:53

billions of dollars. So

42:55

instead you just lease models from other people.

42:58

So that's sort of the trade off is like, if you

43:00

don't have a lot of users, you might as well just

43:02

lease because it's not gonna cost you that much, but the

43:04

users you do have are gonna be very happy. But if

43:06

you hit a critical mass where you have so many people

43:08

that leasing those models is costing you so much money, you

43:11

might as well just put the money in now to train

43:13

your own model. But

43:16

I meant like operating the models too, like

43:18

operating the data center. Oh yeah, no that

43:20

costs a crap load of money. That's right.

43:22

For sure. More on that coming up in

43:24

June. Well,

43:26

May is May for IO. Oh,

43:28

it's May. Yeah, and

43:30

then IO is June, right? Okay. No,

43:33

IO is May. Sorry, IO is May. Dub

43:35

Dub is June. And Zendaya is June. And

43:38

Zendaya is June. And Zendaya is June. And Zendaya is

43:40

June. And we should take a break before we just

43:43

goes completely off the rails. Let's

43:45

do trivia. Trivia. I

43:48

was thinking it. I'm glad you said it. Okay.

43:51

So I have, We'll do the menu

43:53

thing today. I have a relevant Apple interacts with

43:55

third party companies. Use

44:00

question or I have a fun

44:02

classic you Tube question so you

44:04

to latitudes to as police nor

44:06

at nothing to do the other

44:08

one after and as the second

44:10

one else will see how the

44:12

rhythm of the night Guess so.

44:14

Uploaded June sixteenth, two thousand and

44:17

nine and know the answer. This

44:19

four point four billion view masterpiece

44:21

is the oldest video on You

44:23

Tube all time top Thirty list.

44:25

What video is it might all?

44:27

This video is on the top

44:29

third on. The top thirty all

44:31

time most views are. This is

44:33

the oldest video. On

44:35

that list uploaded June sixteenth, two

44:37

thousand and nine it currently has

44:40

four point four billion views if

44:42

you did multiple choice I guarantee

44:44

I'll get right and math but

44:46

because it's not there are. Too.

44:49

Many. Possible. Options,

44:51

but I'm gonna try. Well let me

44:53

let me say this. Oh, this

44:55

is the only video on the top Thirty

44:57

list upload in two thousand and nine. Yeah.

45:00

None of the like me at the zoo didn't get this

45:02

many views. It's not altered. Our is my answer and others.

45:05

Ah my on a couple hundred million

45:07

six year as walk a walker was

45:09

uploaded in two thousand and ten I

45:12

think I know is so it's not

45:14

our the and then. You

45:16

and great song by the there's another.there's

45:18

a two thousand and Eleven video that

45:20

was uploaded by T Series on Monday

45:22

morning. Eleven and Twenty a lot to

45:24

know. That video said over four billion.

45:27

I remember when gung I'm Sol was the first

45:29

video to every a one billion it was baby

45:31

Shark has fourteen billie dozen or so and that's

45:33

is one version of it. Planet. Earth.

45:36

Spell list of nominees and babies to

45:39

ah despite having. A

45:41

say we have like eight billion

45:43

people. Yeah, hold on yeah. the

45:45

ad they're all watching baby's gonna have

45:48

like twice that yo that's sad is

45:50

actually crazy to really think about

45:52

it. Thera. Lot of babies who

45:54

haven't seen maybe shirt which means the

45:57

average number of times each baby who

45:59

has seen babies. There has replayed it is

46:01

probably will say that I bet you parents

46:03

just cycle baby shark or without watching it

46:05

just as music on you tube isn't and

46:07

I like remember the Arab a force modify

46:09

where the way that people would listen to

46:11

music was to just watch the videos. I

46:14

have that on the other night us billions

46:16

yeah that Elliott Three Pts yeah for sure

46:18

people in really care about the music video

46:20

they wanted hear the song when I got

46:22

my first ipod touch that came with that

46:24

the you Tube amp and as as soon

46:26

as it clicked for me I was like

46:28

it's over for the music industry. Hundred ever

46:31

say it again since it's that easy. that

46:33

was pretty pretty. Oh gee, When just baby

46:35

Shark on Spotify has six hundred and eighty

46:37

five million please That's where the name that

46:39

I gonna put that only the audio version

46:42

and not including the like paid twenty different

46:44

ways you can listen to it on you

46:46

do but it's probably eight thousand remixes of

46:48

it as wanted to fourteen billion us and

46:51

isn't it? It does. The desk the sito

46:53

has eight billion views which is kind of

46:55

funny. that like everyone has seemed esposito once

46:57

i've never seen them is a thank you.

47:00

Again also has like I was. doesn't say how

47:02

many times have you guys seem to be be

47:04

sharp that zero ever watch You've never watched it

47:06

and I watch that at least six time. That's

47:08

the thing is own six summer lady when I

47:10

got out of her your dog is because I

47:13

see this list all the time and I'm like

47:15

I say wanted to provide as the no one

47:17

put it on wonder I brought Lane and. Other

47:20

murders? Oh yeah yeah that the

47:22

first time I've ever started to

47:25

Watson don't submit your child know

47:27

see only with his decreed safeguards.

47:32

Against will take a break movie back with the

47:34

answer is the court as the and see if

47:36

in. Fox.

47:48

Creative. This is advertiser content brought

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to you by visible. Okay,

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so Visible Wireless? Why partners? And they're pretty

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if you need to shop for new

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49:09

Ah, I want to sue every company

49:11

on the planet who publishes news on

49:13

Thursdays because it means that we don't

49:15

talk about it as an aura defense.

49:17

They publish this like Thursday afternoon so

49:19

even if we recorded on Thursdays we

49:21

probably would have missed. It was also

49:23

funny cause the boat as episode came

49:25

out. There are people like two episodes

49:27

know are you haven't talked is the

49:29

host. Much as

49:31

we reported on about against us.

49:34

Come on a low sodium. Finally

49:36

talk about Okay yes, what we

49:38

miss Last week, the Department of

49:40

Justice has formerly sued Apple Inc.

49:42

Over monopolization stuff.

49:45

Com and there's a there's a

49:47

whole big old eighty eight page

49:50

court. Filing but I read that

49:52

was a hard or a little hard

49:54

to read but also it was kind

49:56

of written in like a story way

49:58

which was interesting. Like

50:00

it literally starts off with this

50:02

okay, the way this this filing

50:04

starts off his own store on

50:06

a time in a land find

50:08

our way kind of it. It

50:10

reads: Retelling this site Amazon Kindle

50:13

add about. How this person

50:15

was like using the Kindle app on

50:17

their I phone and then. Grabs

50:19

and Android phone and continues reading on

50:22

the Kindle app on their Android phone

50:24

and as an email from an Apple

50:26

person which stop sending emails that are

50:28

incriminating, guys like to stop. The remiss

50:31

who says look at this ad you

50:33

can easily switch. So reading your Kindle

50:35

on your on an Android phone. That's.

50:38

A bad thing. That's a terrible

50:40

thing. and it's like. Why?

50:42

You know? So they're clearly saying we

50:44

want to create these Get This

50:46

is literally how the filings opens

50:48

some to kind of paint. This

50:50

This a picture of how Apple's

50:52

Siri to keep you on their

50:54

egos. Just as compelling. He

50:56

asks said so during the week Amazing

50:59

of yeah no cat is yes snow

51:01

as it tells. Not only are just

51:03

like little started to suggest. Ah,

51:06

but it centers around Apple building

51:08

a dominant I phone ecosystem and

51:10

intentionally stifling competitors ability to compete

51:12

and also locking in users. Things

51:14

we all know that Apple does

51:16

does. Ah, Elsa complains about safe

51:18

sifting restrictions and rules with the

51:20

app store. And

51:22

then also it makes all

51:24

of these allegories to when. They

51:27

broke up Microsoft and will. They did

51:29

break up Microsoft but when they sued

51:31

Microsoft. Way back when and

51:33

they say that Apple only grew

51:35

to the behemoth that they are

51:37

today because of that lawsuit. Effectively,

51:40

what was happening at the time

51:42

is Microsoft to was making quick

51:44

time not work correctly on Windows

51:46

computers which have like ninety seven

51:48

percent of the market at the

51:51

time. and they had apparently actually

51:53

intensely written code into Windows computers

51:55

that would make quick time. Like.

51:57

Break and just not work. Which.

52:00

Basically didn't He? Yeah, I feel.

52:03

Like I experienced this you probably have

52:05

this effect is sitting on Windows media

52:07

player with the cool not had like

52:09

will you had to I as definitely

52:11

to says that for a while but

52:13

I think Quick Time was one of

52:16

the early screening corners and there was

52:18

math and yeah on on went in.

52:20

I tunes as like sounded in quick

52:22

time. So the way that Department of

52:24

Justice painted this was only because we

52:26

sued Microsoft and hat force them to

52:29

allow Apple to create applications on your

52:31

platform that work correctly. was Apple. Able

52:33

to launch I tunes and therefore launched the

52:35

I pod which they say is the whole

52:37

reason Apple Like grew to the behemoth that

52:40

they are today. I am sure that the

52:42

reason I would say the Mac is probably

52:44

a more. Like

52:47

valuable. Product for them. but the

52:49

I pod obviously did sort of start a

52:51

whole. Sitting. For the middle, As

52:53

and Libya a platform you know it's ever

52:55

did. And but could you argue that Max

52:58

got more popular because they went after Microsoft

53:00

and. Hurt Microsoft in some

53:02

way. yet either such marketeers the like

53:04

Gavin says. so the Department of Justice

53:06

created Apple is what they're getting. Yeah,

53:08

see, that's what are your yeah which

53:11

is funny. Ah, Anyway, there are five

53:13

primary complaints in this document and I

53:15

figure that we go through all of

53:17

them and just kind of discuss like

53:19

if they're valid or not because there's

53:21

a lot of controversial takes in is

53:24

filing is lot of things that I

53:26

would say like I kind of see

53:28

what you're saying but I feel like

53:30

you're reaching. In. Order to just break

53:32

up apple you know? Yeah I would say like

53:34

before we get into these. yeah what? would

53:37

or what would a success look like

53:39

for a d o j for suing

53:41

apple is breaking up apple and seemed

53:44

an alcoholic double but like would have

53:46

actually want to accomplish here i think

53:48

that i mean there's five different categories

53:50

and i would assume that it's like

53:52

winning on all five of these categories

53:54

and it's if they win then they

53:57

signs apple change apple's behavior and some

53:59

yeah basically Changing their behavior, I think is what they're

54:01

trying to do. Okay. Okay. So

54:03

let's just go through the five categories in order. Okay.

54:06

The number one category that the Department of

54:08

Justice says Apple is anti-competitive

54:11

for is not allowing super

54:13

apps, which I don't

54:16

really understand this complaint very much

54:19

because we just don't really have super apps in the

54:21

United States. What is a super app? So

54:24

we don't, but in China there's

54:26

an app called WeChat, which is a

54:28

super app. And the argument is that

54:30

Apple does things like delay updates to

54:32

WeChat and things like that that make

54:34

it just more difficult to have that

54:36

on the app store. So WeChat is

54:38

on the app store, which

54:40

is why I find it confusing. A super app, by

54:42

the way, is like, it's an

54:44

app that you can do a ton of different

54:46

things in. So in China, yeah,

54:48

so in China, there's a super app is called

54:51

WeChat and you can pay your taxes in WeChat.

54:53

You can order a taxi in WeChat. You can

54:55

make a dentist appointment. And then when you get

54:57

your dentist office, you sign in, you check in

54:59

with WeChat and then pay with WeChat. Yeah, you

55:01

pay with WeChat. It's everything.

55:04

And so I think the Department of Justice's

55:07

reasoning here is if you have a single

55:10

app that allows you to do anything and

55:12

it's not about the hardware at all, you

55:14

could easily move to an Android phone because

55:16

as long as you have this app that

55:18

has all these services on it that are

55:20

interoperable, depending on, and it doesn't matter what

55:22

hardware you're using, then it would

55:24

be a lot easier for people to move to Android phones.

55:27

And they're saying Apple's not allowing

55:29

that? Yes, which I don't really

55:31

understand. I think it's

55:33

because even though the app is

55:35

on the App Store, it's a

55:37

cut down version of the full mobile app. It

55:40

doesn't have full functionality. So like I'm looking at

55:42

the reviews right now in the App Store and

55:45

one of the reviews is a three-star review and

55:47

it says, still very annoying to have to use

55:49

the mobile version to get the full system to

55:51

work at all. The mobile

55:53

version. I'm assuming like mobile in browser version

55:55

or something like that. All these different apps.

55:57

Yeah, all these different features that we just

55:59

that has built-in, you get a sliced

56:01

down mobile version in Apple's app. Versus

56:04

if you have an Android phone, you

56:06

just get the full app and the

56:08

full experience. Interesting. I would also

56:10

guess that Apple has a lot of restrictions on

56:12

what apps are allowed to do. Yeah,

56:14

I think that probably would. Yeah, something else

56:16

that Apple has been specifically trying to

56:19

block is having too

56:21

many microservices within an app,

56:24

because then they have to review everything that

56:26

the app can do. Their

56:29

main complaint around not allowing game streaming services,

56:31

which they now do, which is strange that

56:33

the game streaming thing is a complaint because

56:35

they now allow game streaming services. Their main

56:37

reason that they didn't allow game streaming services

56:39

for a long period of time is because

56:41

they were saying, we'd have

56:43

to review every single game that's on

56:46

the service to make sure that it's

56:48

not harmful to the user. And every

56:50

time there's an update to any of

56:52

the games on a game streaming service,

56:54

we'd have to review every single update

56:57

to every single title on a

56:59

game streaming service. The

57:01

Department of Justice says that the reason that

57:03

they didn't allow that was that

57:05

you could use any hardware.

57:08

There's an email from an Apple

57:10

person that says, here's

57:12

a problem. If a user goes to a garage sale

57:14

and pays $5 for an Android phone

57:17

and everything is cloud-based, they don't need

57:19

high-end hardware, and then they don't even

57:21

need an iPhone, that's an issue. We

57:23

should deal with that. This

57:26

is coming back again to, I'm

57:28

sure with each one of these complaints, Apple has

57:30

a public-facing reason and a real

57:33

reason. And I feel like we're going to

57:35

hear a lot in the public

57:37

of what Apple will say is the reason, but

57:39

we also know that they clearly do not want

57:41

the walls of the garden to get any smaller.

57:44

The juiciest part of this entire thing is going to

57:46

be Discovery, where the Department of Justice gets to go

57:49

through all of their emails, and we get to find

57:51

out the real reason. Yeah, it's going to be amazing.

57:55

So what do you guys think about this super

57:57

app thing? I think it's right in

57:59

line. So the the reason that Apple will

58:01

say is this super app thing

58:04

it does too many things It takes too long

58:06

to review and it is not something that we

58:08

want in our store but the real

58:10

reason that's also true is

58:12

if Someone uses all of the

58:15

features of this super app to do everything and doesn't

58:17

need anything else about the iPhone then they can easily

58:19

switch to another phone, right so Theoretically,

58:22

that's one of the reasons that they

58:25

should change and allow super app. Mm-hmm. I

58:27

get it Which is kind of like the Fed verse thing It

58:31

is also kind of weird that Apple's like well

58:33

We have to look over all of these different

58:35

things and like come on That's a lot of

58:38

stuff is like you own an insane amount of

58:40

market share You can't afford plenty of resources like

58:42

it's a little weird to be like come

58:44

on We can't do all you can't expect us to

58:47

do all of that. We're just like the number one

58:49

company No, but you can't expect the

58:51

games stores to even submit

58:53

all of that Like yeah, like on

58:55

the Xbox cloud gaming thing. It's like

58:57

there's thousands of titles, right? Oh,

59:00

yeah, our how's that process even

59:02

gonna work? Yeah in January of

59:04

this year Apple actually started allowing

59:06

game streaming Yeah, so this

59:08

complaint is kind of moot now And

59:10

it's kind of weird that it's in the filing at

59:13

all. But you know, they probably finished it before you

59:15

yeah The government doesn't work. Yeah Also,

59:18

no what exists Does someone

59:21

at Apple sit down and watch every movie? Well,

59:23

no cuz the movie is not a game How's

59:26

that any different dude? If you want to

59:28

know what constitutes a game go watch the

59:30

epic versus Apple? Content

59:34

yeah, I think you think

59:36

like but games can be like more

59:39

harmful with like micro Yeah, because actually

59:41

about things that are more controlling your

59:43

phone and stuff for controls and stuff

59:45

Gutters of steam to have some things

59:48

that like barely yeah should never be

59:50

seen by human eyes Think about the games that

59:52

are on the like Google Play Store that actually are

59:54

just malware You know that gets

59:56

caught like you think there's a difference multiple times a

59:58

month. They're like, oh this came was malware, we had to

1:00:00

take it down. So

1:00:03

we sort of went through the game streaming one as

1:00:06

well as the Super App one. The third one

1:00:08

is messaging and there was some stuff that

1:00:10

I learned here that I didn't actually know. Apple

1:00:13

doesn't allow third party apps to send SMS

1:00:15

messages so the only way that you can

1:00:18

send an SMS on an iPhone is through

1:00:20

the messages app. Okay, yeah, that's pretty

1:00:22

straightforward. Which is pretty straightforward. And

1:00:24

that's a super easy one to have a public and

1:00:26

a private message. The public thing is SMS

1:00:30

super insecure. We

1:00:33

don't want to just let any app

1:00:35

go out sending SMS messages or receiving

1:00:37

insecure messages but obviously if you

1:00:39

allow third party apps to send and

1:00:41

receive SMS then people won't use Apple's

1:00:43

app to send and receive SMS. Right,

1:00:45

think about getting like two factor authentication

1:00:47

codes. Any time you get

1:00:50

one comes through the messages app. The

1:00:52

more your messages app shows up in front of your face

1:00:54

the more you're just going to start using it. What's

1:00:57

their reasoning for not only

1:01:00

having messages to do

1:01:02

SMS? I mean Apple hasn't replied. They

1:01:04

haven't replied, okay. I would guess that

1:01:06

it's privacy but the irony, the

1:01:09

intense irony is then like then

1:01:12

use the open secure standard. Use

1:01:14

RCS. Which

1:01:17

they did say they were going to use but we still don't know

1:01:19

what the implementation of that's going to be. All

1:01:21

these things, yeah, Fox Kicking. That's this year it's

1:01:24

supposed to happen, right? Yeah but that's such a

1:01:26

long period of time. It was like in January

1:01:28

that they mentioned. No, it was last year. Last

1:01:30

year and they said it would happen in 2024.

1:01:33

December 26th. I hope that happens

1:01:36

at WWDC. Merry Christmas. Not

1:01:38

yours RCS. Yeah, just like

1:01:40

they did with the CarPlay stuff in

1:01:43

the forest where they're like, oh we forgot.

1:01:45

We probably did. Okay, fine. Yeah.

1:01:48

And then obviously they talk about the

1:01:50

green bubble, blue bubble fiasco and

1:01:53

just the insane amount of high

1:01:55

percentage of teenagers who are planning to buy

1:01:58

an iPhone specifically for that reason. So

1:02:01

in the United States we understand what exists.

1:02:03

Please do not comment just use what's up

1:02:05

But also like every time I read the

1:02:07

stats, I'm like damn. Yeah, and

1:02:09

it just gets higher and higher and higher.

1:02:11

It's crazy Yeah. Yeah. Okay. One of the

1:02:13

other things was that they do not allow

1:02:15

the Apple Watch to work on Android phones

1:02:18

and They make the

1:02:20

functionality of other smart watches way

1:02:22

harder or way worse So

1:02:25

an example of this is that on the

1:02:27

Apple Watch you can respond

1:02:29

to Messages, you know with the

1:02:31

keyboard or with your voice or all this stuff You

1:02:33

can interact with notifications and it can pull it all

1:02:35

that kind of stuff If you

1:02:38

use an iPhone and you have a smartwatch You

1:02:40

can't get a notification and pull

1:02:42

up the app on your smartwatch Yeah,

1:02:45

you can't respond to a message on

1:02:48

your smartwatch if it's connected to an iPhone correct Adam Wait,

1:02:51

I think so say that again if you have an iPhone

1:02:53

or if you know if you don't have an iPhone Yeah,

1:02:55

or sorry if you have an iPhone and you have a

1:02:57

non Apple smartwatch and it's like

1:02:59

highly deprecated. Correct Yes, this

1:03:01

is one of the only ones where

1:03:04

I feel like I kind of get

1:03:06

Apple's perspective not even perspective I just

1:03:08

feel like competitively They're like

1:03:10

look we made this phone and

1:03:12

we made this watch and we made our phone work

1:03:14

with our watch If you're not one

1:03:17

of those tough Like

1:03:20

obviously it would be nice if you

1:03:22

could force Apple to make their phone

1:03:24

more compatible with other people's stuff but it's

1:03:27

like We who

1:03:29

cares like you don't have to actually

1:03:31

that's not actually enough I think the

1:03:33

idea is that they have such dominant

1:03:35

market share in the United States, right?

1:03:37

that they're kind of they're abusing their

1:03:39

market share to make everything worse to

1:03:41

keep people using their products and Which

1:03:45

again is like in their right to

1:03:47

do kind of but also I think

1:03:49

the Department of Justice just cares about

1:03:51

promoting competition and without

1:03:54

taking action to Allow

1:03:56

other people to use other devices the

1:04:00

of people on iPhones and Apple watches is just

1:04:02

gonna go up and up and up. Yeah, this

1:04:04

is one of those complaints I think that only

1:04:06

works because of their dominance. Yes. Because you wouldn't

1:04:08

even really care if there's another small smartwatch and

1:04:10

a small smartphone and they only work with each

1:04:12

other. Fine, whatever. Go in the corner and do

1:04:14

your thing. Yeah. I totally

1:04:16

agree with that part. I think it... I

1:04:19

don't know if I... Or no, I don't agree

1:04:21

with Apple saying like, we built this phone, we

1:04:23

built this watch, put them together. Because there are

1:04:26

just other watches that feel specific niches better. Garmin

1:04:29

specifically is so good at so many things

1:04:31

that it's been doing for so long and

1:04:33

to just take away some basic functionality of

1:04:35

what makes it a smartwatch. Then there

1:04:38

are plenty of people who have iPhones that

1:04:40

probably want a Garmin watch because of maybe

1:04:42

the way better GPS or ruggedness of it

1:04:44

versus... I know they did Apple watch all

1:04:46

day, but that feels

1:04:49

really... The phrasing is interesting

1:04:51

because if you say take away,

1:04:53

it's almost like this was out there and they

1:04:55

took it away, but they

1:04:58

never had to enable it ever

1:05:00

in the first place? They

1:05:02

never had to enable it ever, but like... That's what they

1:05:04

are, you know. Yeah. I

1:05:06

get it, but I also... I agree

1:05:09

with Andrew though because there's ways to

1:05:11

differentiate your product based on a compelling

1:05:13

feature that users want. The

1:05:15

Apple watch has Siri. I miss that

1:05:18

every day that I've been using a Garmin. It's

1:05:20

actually useful on the Apple watch. Just setting timers,

1:05:22

doing random things, awesome. The fact that I have

1:05:24

a Garmin and doesn't have Siri, that's what I

1:05:27

get. I don't have an Apple watch, but I

1:05:29

can't turn off certain notifications from apps because I

1:05:31

have a Garmin. Yeah. That's dumb. There's

1:05:34

a lot of dumb. I would say it would

1:05:36

be a much stronger argument for the features of

1:05:39

the Apple watch if all smartwatches could have the

1:05:41

same access. Then it would be like, all

1:05:43

right, we're literally... That's the whole point of

1:05:45

this whole lawsuit, but then we'd literally just be buying

1:05:47

the watch based on which one has the features we

1:05:49

like. Some people would pick the Apple watch, some people

1:05:51

would pick the Garmin, some people would pick this and

1:05:53

that or whatever, but Apple feels this extra need on

1:05:55

top to be like, well, we don't have

1:05:57

to make ours work with others, so we just won't.

1:06:00

And now there's only one choice of an actually

1:06:02

full featured smartwatch for the iPhone. Right. By

1:06:05

the logic of Apple made their thing that

1:06:07

can only work with their product, it's like,

1:06:09

okay, so all other smartwatches now can't tell

1:06:12

time. No, they can all do stuff on

1:06:14

their own. They just don't have

1:06:16

the plugs, the hooks into the iPhone

1:06:19

to take advantage of the features that come from

1:06:21

being connected to an iPhone. But also there's basic

1:06:23

features they can't do. Sounds like some pretty big...

1:06:25

Adam, explain the notifications. So like if I'm on

1:06:27

Android and I have a Garmin watch, and this

1:06:30

actually happened a couple weeks ago because I walked

1:06:32

into Andrew, I walked into the office

1:06:34

and I went up to Andrew and I was like, Andrew, can you

1:06:36

help me figure out this Garmin thing because I can't figure it out?

1:06:39

And we pulled up our phones next to each other and

1:06:41

I was on iOS, he was on Android. And

1:06:43

I followed him step by step into

1:06:46

settings to turn off certain app notifications.

1:06:48

And on Android, it gives you a list of

1:06:51

all the apps. I could turn off WhatsApp, I

1:06:53

could keep on SMS text messaging, I could turn

1:06:55

off Instagram, I could keep on threads. On

1:06:58

iOS, it's all or nothing. I

1:07:00

can only get notifications on my watch or I

1:07:02

can't get notifications on my watch. So it's like

1:07:04

little things like that where it's like just annoying.

1:07:07

And same. Do we... My

1:07:09

only question on that is are we sure that's

1:07:11

not Garmin making that decision or... No, that's an

1:07:13

iOS thing. Android

1:07:16

allows it and iPhone doesn't. And

1:07:18

on your Apple watch, you can

1:07:20

choose which individual notifications. Yes. Oh,

1:07:23

try me. Yes. I

1:07:25

would not use a Garmin watch if I had

1:07:27

an iPhone. That's the thing. The complaint is not

1:07:29

that it's like that they can't really

1:07:31

do it, it's that they're so big

1:07:34

that it's the only viable option in

1:07:37

the market really. It's also just wild

1:07:39

because like Apple is good enough at

1:07:41

giving itself differentiating features that like I

1:07:44

just think will always work better because

1:07:46

you're in the same ecosystem. Why

1:07:49

take the extra step? I think it's because

1:07:51

if you just do these little things that

1:07:53

make it just like, ah, that's annoying, ah,

1:07:55

that's annoying. That's the whole headphones thing. Yeah.

1:07:58

It's like why AirPods are so dominant. AirPods

1:08:00

are the best headphones ever, but there are

1:08:02

like two or three magical features

1:08:04

that work perfectly with the iPhone

1:08:07

that are just the reason people

1:08:09

buy it. Question the W2 chip, right? That's

1:08:12

what it has? Yeah. Is that made by

1:08:14

Apple? Yeah. But so that's like

1:08:16

a- H2, I think. Is it H2 now? Wait, is it

1:08:18

W2 or H2? I thought it was W2 and- I think

1:08:20

it started as W because it was the same chip from

1:08:23

the watch, but they changed it to H. Okay, so we'll

1:08:25

just call it the chip that connects them. I think that's

1:08:27

an example of actually they made that

1:08:29

chip, they made that good. It's something specific.

1:08:31

That is something that just is a feature

1:08:33

that is better, but like Gartner,

1:08:37

Jaybird's not going to have that. Jaybird

1:08:39

can still connect, but rather than just

1:08:41

like taking away an easy way to

1:08:43

connect from Jaybird, they're giving you something

1:08:45

extra. I think that's fine and that

1:08:47

makes AirPods great, but like

1:08:50

to be like, hey, your Garmin watch

1:08:52

can't differentiate notifications is like- Yeah, there's

1:08:54

a different- Come on. There's

1:08:56

a different feature that's on top that

1:08:58

is like this works, there's additional magic

1:09:00

that happens with Apple products and services

1:09:02

versus here's a basic feature that you

1:09:04

just can't do if you're connected to

1:09:06

something else. Yeah, I guess headphones are more one-dimensional

1:09:08

where it's like all you really do is does the

1:09:10

audio go to the phone and back? It does have

1:09:12

a mic, it does a pair, great. But

1:09:15

with a smartwatch, there's 15 or 20

1:09:17

features, so it feels much more obvious when

1:09:19

12 of them are nuked. And

1:09:21

the weird thing too is that they're- this

1:09:23

is all happening to Apple customers already. You

1:09:26

already have an iPhone and they're punishing you

1:09:28

for not buying their other product. It's

1:09:30

not like, oh, you have an iPhone? Well, then sure, go

1:09:32

buy a Garmin because you're already an iPhone user. It's like,

1:09:34

no, you bought a Garmin, now you're going to pay because

1:09:36

you need to invite the Apple Watch. Yeah.

1:09:39

And their other complaint is that the Apple Watch is

1:09:41

pretty expensive and because it only works

1:09:44

with the iPhone, if you buy an Apple Watch,

1:09:46

you're less incentivized to move to an Android phone

1:09:48

because then you just have to throw your Apple

1:09:50

Watch away. That's an interesting

1:09:52

perspective because theoretically, you could

1:09:55

switch to an Android phone and then

1:09:57

get all of the features that you're

1:09:59

talking about. talking about that you want from the

1:10:02

watch, right? You could get all the specific

1:10:04

notifications. Back to the Garmin. Oh, the good

1:10:06

thing. Yeah. Like you, okay, you

1:10:08

have an iPhone and you see the Garmin.

1:10:10

You want all the features that you get

1:10:12

from Android, so you theoretically can switch to

1:10:14

Android and Garmin. Right. And

1:10:17

I guess their theory is the friction of that... You gotta

1:10:19

buy another one, though. No, you have the Garmin already. Oh.

1:10:22

Well, I mean, okay, so you have an iPhone, you bought the Garmin,

1:10:24

the features don't work. You can switch to

1:10:26

an Android phone on the spot, but that friction

1:10:28

is enough that people don't do it, and instead

1:10:30

they don't get the Garmin, they buy the Apple

1:10:32

Watch. And then the Apple Watch further locks you

1:10:34

into the ecosystem because then you bought a

1:10:36

$450 watch that only works with your iPhone,

1:10:39

so if you decide to switch to an Android

1:10:41

phone, your watch is now useless. Yeah. And

1:10:43

you have to buy... Not only are you throwing away...

1:10:45

That's the wall. Yeah. Not only are

1:10:47

you throwing away the $400 that you spent, you now have to spend another $300 on

1:10:50

a Garmin watch. But that's different. I'm okay

1:10:52

with that because that is them differentiating their

1:10:54

thing. Like our watch only works with our

1:10:57

phone. And as much as it sucks, I get it.

1:11:00

But taking away features after

1:11:02

I've already bought the thing, that's where I have the issue

1:11:04

with it. Yeah. Yeah, it

1:11:06

is. I don't know. I

1:11:09

get it if it doesn't work as fluidly with it.

1:11:11

I will say. But like, it should...it doesn't

1:11:13

work. The Pixel Watch doesn't work with iPhones. So they're

1:11:15

not that good either. Oh, really? Yeah.

1:11:18

Does the Samsung? Yeah. Does

1:11:20

the Galaxy Watch work with iPhones? No, it's... No, no,

1:11:22

no. I know the Galaxy Watch works on...

1:11:24

It works better with Galaxy phones. Yeah, sure. Again,

1:11:27

I'm like... Which is slippery.

1:11:29

Yeah. That's true. What

1:11:31

are the things that works better with those? It's

1:11:34

usually because it's just connected to like other Samsung

1:11:36

apps with inside the Samsung phone. You

1:11:38

probably won't have on your phone. Yeah, like

1:11:40

normal. I don't know. I used the Samsung

1:11:42

Watch on my Pixel for a year and

1:11:44

it was totally fine. You can use the Galaxy

1:11:46

Watch with the iPhone. I

1:11:50

thought there was one that... So you can use

1:11:52

it with an iPhone. You can't set it up

1:11:54

with an iPhone. So you need to first pair

1:11:56

it to an Android phone. Are you sure? Yeah,

1:11:59

I'm on Reddit right now. Then un-pair it then pair

1:12:01

it with an iPhone good good in the case

1:12:03

of the pixel watch not working at all with

1:12:05

an iPhone Are we mad

1:12:07

because Google should totally support the iPhone

1:12:10

or are we like? Yeah, it's a

1:12:12

Google phone and a Google watch like

1:12:14

the abusing monopoly power question, right? Google

1:12:17

is not all behind that if we

1:12:19

don't really care that said

1:12:22

I think we should care because this is how you

1:12:24

build monopoly, but also though who's restricting

1:12:26

the use Between them

1:12:29

is it Google's name you can't yes, Google Yeah,

1:12:31

Google does not because you can build smart watches

1:12:33

that will at least connect and work with the

1:12:35

iPhone There's doesn't at all and the funny thing

1:12:37

is Google has just been trying to copy Apple's

1:12:40

ecosystem play for the lab ever since

1:12:42

everyone pixel came out. Yeah, but specifically

1:12:45

now they're like let's build a watch

1:12:47

and headphones and like a Laptop

1:12:50

like they're specifically trying to match the ecosystem

1:12:52

that Apple has and they're doing it in

1:12:54

a very similar way of like the pixel

1:12:56

watch Only works on on Android phone, you

1:12:59

know, which yeah Google's

1:13:02

have some has some monopoly claims as

1:13:04

well They're

1:13:06

not scotch for you 100% Yeah,

1:13:09

okay Now that we the

1:13:12

watch is a big one the watch is for sure a

1:13:14

big one. Yeah Last

1:13:16

thing last major complaint is that

1:13:18

the access to the NFC chip on?

1:13:22

I phone yeah, you can only use

1:13:25

with like Apple Wallet and Apple Pay.

1:13:27

Yeah and their complaint which Technically

1:13:30

true is let like if I was

1:13:32

a bank I could

1:13:34

theoretically offer my own wallet app

1:13:37

that Maybe could

1:13:39

compete with other banks because I could

1:13:41

say if you use our wallet app

1:13:43

Then we give you special rewards and

1:13:46

that incentivizes me to move over to

1:13:48

chase or move over to Bank of

1:13:50

America or something like that, but because

1:13:52

Apple controls the fire hose of Apple

1:13:55

Pay and you can only use the

1:13:58

NFC chip with Apple Pay on

1:14:01

the iPhone, they

1:14:04

don't allow anybody to do that. The

1:14:06

other thing is that they also take a cut of

1:14:09

every payment that is made through Apple

1:14:11

Pay. Yeah. That's not

1:14:13

that much different from using a credit card though,

1:14:15

right? Don't credit cards have? They

1:14:17

do, but theoretically as a consumer, you

1:14:19

have the option to give that money

1:14:22

to Chase or Bank of America or

1:14:24

whatever. Like on

1:14:26

an Android phone, you can use a

1:14:28

different wallet app and make a payment

1:14:30

and have someone else take a cut

1:14:33

and they use a different service and it'll go

1:14:35

through NFC and still work with it. For sure,

1:14:37

like the NFC chip works with, it's like there's

1:14:39

an API for the NFC chip that you can

1:14:41

use as Samsung or that Samsung Pay could use

1:14:43

that or Google Pay could use that. So

1:14:46

you have to sort of compete. And I honestly think that that's

1:14:48

a reason that Google Pay, one of the many

1:14:51

versions of Google Pay that we've had at this point. Wow,

1:14:53

Google Pay. Like two versions ago

1:14:55

or one version ago had this weird reward

1:14:57

system going on where like if you use Google

1:14:59

Pay more, you would like build up rewards that

1:15:01

you could use for like other things and I

1:15:04

don't know. This one's a little weak. I don't

1:15:06

think people are gonna go out there and be

1:15:08

like, yeah, instead of Apple Pay and Apple Wallet,

1:15:10

I wanna use Bank of America Wallet. People aren't

1:15:12

gonna do that. But still. But

1:15:14

let them fight for it. Give them

1:15:16

the chance at making that. Ultimately, I

1:15:18

think this whole claim, it

1:15:21

is just about competition in the marketplace.

1:15:24

Like Apple specifically makes it

1:15:26

so that other people can't even compete with them

1:15:29

to offer a better deal that would incentivize consumers to go over

1:15:31

there. And one

1:15:33

note that I forgot about the SuperApp

1:15:35

thing was like the big

1:15:38

reason why the Chinese Android market

1:15:40

is so insane and why there's

1:15:42

like two Android phones coming up

1:15:44

per day in China is because

1:15:47

everything is about WeChat and

1:15:49

so people don't really care about the

1:15:51

iPhone over there because they're just like,

1:15:53

it's an app and I can use

1:15:56

whatever hardware I want and it just

1:15:58

makes this incredibly vibrant hardware ecosystem. is

1:16:00

so different. That's why Xiaomi and Oppo and

1:16:02

so many other OEMs over there are in

1:16:04

such fierce competition. It's because they're trying to

1:16:06

give you reasons to buy their phone over

1:16:08

the other one. The reason they Naruto phone

1:16:10

exists. Yeah, most people are just, I'm buying

1:16:12

a phone to use WeChat, so I don't

1:16:14

really care what's on the phone, but if

1:16:16

you can convince me, I'm open to listening.

1:16:18

So they're in fierce competition over there, which

1:16:20

is really exciting. Yeah. Meanwhile over here,

1:16:22

we're like, no NFC. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1:16:25

yeah. I just remember it was so funny how

1:16:27

long other Android phones had NFC and how this

1:16:29

niche community around NFC was built up with a

1:16:31

little tag. And you could be like, every time

1:16:33

I get in my car, I tap it and

1:16:35

it goes into auto mode and navigates home and

1:16:37

plays the song I like. And it turns on

1:16:39

the heater at home, all this stuff. I love

1:16:41

that. And the iPhone never had NFC. And when

1:16:43

it finally got the NFC chip, that only made

1:16:45

me with, what can we do with it? It's

1:16:47

like, oh no, it's just their raffle bag. God,

1:16:50

why? Yeah. Well now you could do

1:16:53

things with it, with shortcuts and stuff. But yeah. A

1:16:55

few more. It's all somewhere in Apple's ecosystem. So

1:16:59

a few really amazing quotes from

1:17:01

this. There was this

1:17:03

quote that someone said, looking at it with hindsight, I

1:17:06

think going forward, we need to set a stake in

1:17:08

the ground for what features we think are good enough

1:17:10

for the consumer. I would argue we're

1:17:12

already doing more than what would have been good

1:17:14

enough a few years ago. It

1:17:16

would be really hard to regress our product features

1:17:18

year over year. So someone at

1:17:21

Apple is saying, we've actually like,

1:17:23

we already have so much market dominance

1:17:25

that we're actually giving you

1:17:27

too many new features. We

1:17:29

should slow down and I actually wish we

1:17:32

could take away features. We could trickle feed

1:17:34

you these features year over year. But

1:17:36

that would be really difficult. So going

1:17:39

forward, we need to make sure that we don't

1:17:41

innovate too quickly. It's like, holy

1:17:43

crap. Just sending this stuff to each

1:17:45

other in the group chat. Guys, stop

1:17:48

emailing this stuff. Buy your mom an

1:17:50

iPhone. No, that's in the document. Oh,

1:17:53

I know. I

1:17:55

think that quote is going to haunt

1:17:57

Tim Cook for the rest of his career. It so

1:17:59

perfectly encapsulates everything. everything though. Literally. It's

1:18:02

the question, the answer, and the way he grins

1:18:04

while he answers, like all of it is so

1:18:06

perfect. It's five words that are gonna be on

1:18:08

his gravestone. It's so perfect for that. I feel

1:18:11

bad for him for that though, because he was

1:18:13

clearly just joking. Not really, but not

1:18:15

really. The only reason it was a good joke

1:18:17

is because that sliver of truth is like butt-action.

1:18:20

It's the only way you can see these videos that

1:18:22

your mom is sending you. I

1:18:24

would argue that when you're the CEO

1:18:26

of a trillion-dollar company, you lose your

1:18:29

joking privileges. We have the right to take everything

1:18:31

you say. Yeah, you can make the joke,

1:18:33

but we're allowed to take it way too

1:18:35

seriously. That's fair. Yeah, yeah. If

1:18:37

you have a market cap with nine digits, we

1:18:39

don't listen to your jokes anymore. Yeah. We

1:18:42

probably get a solid rule. Yeah. Nah. Fair.

1:18:46

So yeah. Yeah.

1:18:49

Anyways, you don't need us to. If you re-watch that

1:18:51

clip, I think it was from Code2023, it's really awkward,

1:18:53

because as

1:18:56

soon as he says, buy your mom an iPhone,

1:18:59

everyone starts laughing really awkwardly.

1:19:03

Everyone in the crowd is like, ugh. Buy

1:19:05

your mom an iPhone. It's

1:19:09

because he technically addressed the elephant in the room,

1:19:11

which is like, you guys have this huge walled

1:19:14

garden, and I really would like to be able

1:19:16

to do this without buying my mom an iPhone.

1:19:18

So what are your thoughts? And you're

1:19:20

the CEO of Apple, so you can't say anything

1:19:22

other than, just get your

1:19:24

mom an iPhone. I think I'm going to

1:19:26

say, that was kind of funny in the

1:19:28

truth of how revealing that

1:19:30

was. And what precursed that statement

1:19:33

was someone saying, hey, so it's

1:19:35

very difficult to message between different

1:19:37

devices, and it's really annoying. It's

1:19:40

like him and his mom send blurry messages.

1:19:42

Well, before he said the mom comment, he

1:19:44

was just like, it's difficult to text. And

1:19:47

Tim Cook just says, we haven't heard from

1:19:49

our users that they want better

1:19:52

interoperability with Android phones. That's crazy.

1:19:55

And he specifically said, are you this? Because

1:19:57

of course, people that use iMessage are not.

1:20:00

the ones that are upset about this. Yeah. So

1:20:03

anyway, yeah, that's gonna go

1:20:05

to his grave. This is gonna take multiple

1:20:07

years in the court system. They're gonna appeal it. It's gonna

1:20:09

be a whole thing. It's why I think I should start

1:20:11

making a video about it because it'll be evergreen. You

1:20:14

should. Because the courts will take forever with this.

1:20:16

And I also like, I think the analogy of

1:20:19

we've said the words walled garden so many

1:20:22

times that I feel like it's worth like

1:20:24

actually painting the wall in

1:20:26

color so you can see exactly what's happening.

1:20:28

Yeah. Like this is what happens when you're

1:20:30

in the walled garden and this is the

1:20:32

wall you hit when you try to leave.

1:20:34

Yeah. You can't get customized notifications

1:20:36

on anything else. So you have another Apple

1:20:39

thing. You can't get transparency mode on any

1:20:41

of these others with one clicks. And now

1:20:43

you have Apple's headphones too. Now you have

1:20:46

Apple's laptop too. Now you have Apple's messaging

1:20:48

service too. And that I think is worth

1:20:50

a video in some way sort of trying

1:20:52

to crystallize that even the Vision Pro, it

1:20:55

only works with Apple ecosystem apps that

1:20:58

are like not available on on Android phone. I said

1:21:00

before I came out, I was like when Apple

1:21:02

makes the headset, it will be the one that

1:21:04

works with the iPhone. And even though it doesn't connect

1:21:06

to the iPhone, it's the one that has iMessage

1:21:08

on it. It's the one that has FaceTime on it.

1:21:10

The one that has the app store. It's just yeah,

1:21:12

if you have an Android phone and you don't really

1:21:15

use an Apple ID that much, the

1:21:17

headset is basically worthless. Yeah. I

1:21:20

mean, you can still, I use

1:21:22

an Android phone and I

1:21:24

can still use apps in the app store. So like

1:21:27

there's that. If you don't want to use multi

1:21:29

platform apps, you can jump in, use Vision Pro

1:21:31

apps in there. But you're not going to use

1:21:33

FaceTime. You're not going to use iMessage. You're not

1:21:35

going to use probably built-in email

1:21:37

app or Safari because you have bookmarks

1:21:39

in Chrome, whatever. So yeah, those

1:21:41

walls still exist. And I will say as

1:21:43

sort of a word of concept, that whole

1:21:45

thing about iTunes growing

1:21:48

because of Windows, it's

1:21:51

kind of a valid point because at the time

1:21:53

Windows had 97%

1:21:56

market share, right? So imagine Apple's trying

1:21:58

to grow this new product. product. Apple's,

1:22:01

I don't know, Garmin in this juncture. They're

1:22:04

trying to grow this new product, but

1:22:06

the platform that is

1:22:08

completely dominating the market doesn't allow you

1:22:10

to put out your application for people

1:22:12

to actually use it. If

1:22:15

iTunes couldn't have gotten put on Windows, would

1:22:18

iTunes have grown to the point where it

1:22:20

was? You know? If

1:22:22

it couldn't have been put on Windows? Yeah. Because

1:22:25

it couldn't at first. Yeah. Like QuickDyn

1:22:27

didn't really work with Windows at first. You think Apple saw

1:22:30

that lawsuit and understands the line they

1:22:32

have to skirt to

1:22:35

kind of not turn into that, which now they

1:22:37

pretty much have. But they're skirting it real close.

1:22:39

They're skirting it real close. Seeing

1:22:42

all of this and seeing all the things, if

1:22:45

all five of these things change, all

1:22:47

I think of this is Apple One

1:22:49

already. All

1:22:52

of these things happened to put people in

1:22:54

this garden, and they're in the garden

1:22:56

already. They're not coming out with all

1:22:58

of these things change, which I don't even think all

1:23:00

of these things will change. But let's

1:23:02

say every single thing happens for the

1:23:04

DOJ here because it should happen. Yeah.

1:23:07

And some of the walls have holes in them now. There's a

1:23:10

couple of holes 25 feet up. You

1:23:13

can't buy a ladder on the App Store to

1:23:15

get up there. But it feels like all these

1:23:17

things happen to stifle competition, and they stifled it

1:23:19

enough so they're winning in every aspect.

1:23:23

It's not going to change very much.

1:23:25

Depending on the implementation of RCS next

1:23:28

year, I will very likely be switching to an

1:23:30

Android phone. Which is why

1:23:32

they will be doing everything in their power to

1:23:34

implement it in a way that makes that less

1:23:36

compelling. I think even that, though, is such a

1:23:39

small user. It

1:23:41

doesn't mean anything to them. The amount of people

1:23:43

that would think that is absolutely not that bad.

1:23:45

It does feel a little bit too late. I

1:23:49

think your point is there are lots of people

1:23:51

who already have the MacBook and the iPhone and

1:23:53

the Apple Watch and everything, but there is a

1:23:55

world where there are like 12-year-olds right now who

1:23:57

are about to get their first two devices. And

1:24:00

then maybe you'll get the Garmin watch instead.

1:24:02

I guess that's what I should say. It's

1:24:04

too late for probably maybe in our lifetime

1:24:06

or in a couple generations, whereas I'm sure

1:24:08

when Microsoft got hit with this, people were

1:24:10

like, well, they own 97% already. It's too

1:24:12

late. But now we're at a point where

1:24:14

it's like, oh, there is some competition. So

1:24:17

maybe they're hitting it now. When Lane

1:24:19

gets her first phone. Or when Lane's

1:24:21

kids get their phones, they might

1:24:23

have something different. Yeah, I mean, when you're growing up as a

1:24:26

kid and you're a parent and you need to get a phone

1:24:28

for your kid, you don't want to get them a new, like

1:24:30

an iPhone 15 Pro and they're nine

1:24:32

years old. Why not? Please, Tim

1:24:34

would say. Tim would say that. Why are you,

1:24:36

Mom? Lane, Lane needs a- iPhone 15 Pro Max.

1:24:39

But if your kid's nine years old and all

1:24:41

of their friends have iMessage and they're getting bullied

1:24:43

for not having iMessage, they're gonna go to you

1:24:45

and be like, but I need the iPhone. Dad.

1:24:48

And like, if that's not there- If dad's a

1:24:50

nerd, then it's gonna have some very funny answers.

1:24:52

You're gonna love this one. But no, no, sorry.

1:24:54

That's again, like super anecdotal. If that barrier isn't

1:24:56

there and it's less like

1:24:59

those kids can get anything that their parents

1:25:01

will give them. And also, you know, people tend

1:25:03

to stick with brands for a long period of

1:25:05

time throughout their entire life. I remember when the

1:25:07

LG G8 ThinQ

1:25:10

came out and it was

1:25:12

like- Damn, throwback. At least three generations into

1:25:15

people just not buying LG phones anymore, really.

1:25:17

And I was in Uber and the

1:25:20

Uber guy had it. And I was like, why did you

1:25:22

pick this phone? I literally asked him. Oh, I had an

1:25:24

aunt. Yeah. Yeah, and he was like-

1:25:26

I'm stuck, Tran. I've always used LG since like the

1:25:28

flip phones. Like people just stick with brands. Yeah, I

1:25:30

have the same thing. I have an aunt that was

1:25:32

on, I swear I had

1:25:34

this conversation at a wedding. It was like, I have a S6. Which

1:25:39

Samsung should I get? Yeah, with Samsung. Like that's

1:25:41

the question they're asking. Should I get the S20,

1:25:43

S22? And

1:25:45

that's all they, they're like, I don't really wanna

1:25:48

learn a new thing with the LG or the

1:25:50

HTC. So like, which one should I get? Yeah,

1:25:52

that's very valid. Right. Yeah, so

1:25:54

yeah. Buy your lane Android phone.

1:25:57

Should be the new quote. See, there will be phones there. Buy

1:25:59

your kit and- Anyway,

1:26:02

yeah, like we said, it's gonna take probably a few

1:26:04

years for this to actually get through the courts. On

1:26:07

the Vergecast, I was listening to their talk

1:26:09

about this and they made a bet whether

1:26:11

it be over under 2030 by

1:26:14

the time this gets resolved, which feels pretty

1:26:16

relevant. I guess I got some time

1:26:18

to work on the video then. What gets resolved

1:26:20

first, this or like all car manufacturers

1:26:22

switching to EVs? Because 2030

1:26:24

is like when almost everyone's promised they'll stop doing

1:26:27

that. Also, when it's supposed to be zero emissions

1:26:29

from all tech companies, right? Yeah, I'd say

1:26:31

there's at least legislation in place that would...

1:26:33

I bet 2030 looks exactly like it does

1:26:35

right now. For cars. I

1:26:38

wouldn't be shocked at all. For all the things we just talked about. For everything.

1:26:41

We do another podcast episode, we talk about

1:26:43

the exact same thing. We make more bets.

1:26:46

Yeah, totally, totally could happen. Well, we've talked for

1:26:48

a while about this, so we should take another

1:26:50

quick break. But before

1:26:53

we do, we should do trivia.

1:27:06

This is the third time we're doing this, although

1:27:09

no one else will know that but us. Okay,

1:27:11

first or second question. God, I'm

1:27:13

so thrown off now. One more

1:27:15

time. Why not? Why not? Fourth

1:27:18

time. Fourth time's a charm. When

1:27:21

was the first Google I.O.? When was the first

1:27:23

Dub Dub? That's the

1:27:25

question for two points. One point for two

1:27:28

right answers. We'll see. We'll see. We've

1:27:30

got to brainstorm some of these dates. We'll think about them. This

1:27:39

episode is brought to you by Visible Wireless. Okay,

1:27:41

so Visible Wireless is one of our partners and they're

1:27:44

pretty great. They asked me to talk about why Visible

1:27:46

might not be interesting for you.

1:27:49

Pretty refreshing, right? So Visible's base plan with

1:27:51

unlimited 5G data on Verizon's network for $25

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a month works great for lots

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of people, so what's not to love? Well,

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they're all digital, so you do everything.

1:27:59

from managing your plan to getting customer service right

1:28:02

in their app. So if you love to handle

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everything without ever needing to talk to a human

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in a store, Visible's great. But if you need

1:28:08

to shop for a new phone in person, Visible

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probably isn't for you. Someone like Ryzen might be

1:28:12

a better choice. If you want

1:28:14

your wireless bundled with a bunch of extra stuff,

1:28:16

don't switch to Visible. But heads up, you're gonna

1:28:18

have to pay for that extra stuff. Visible is

1:28:20

focused on the wireless part of wireless. So if

1:28:22

you want more than unlimited 5G data from your

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wireless plan and to pay top dollar for it,

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then by all means, don't switch to Visible. Don't

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get it. Rate with service on the

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Visible plan. For additional terms and network management

1:28:36

practices, see visible.com. All

1:28:39

right, welcome back. We have one more quick story, just because

1:28:41

this is a long episode, but we wanted to get to

1:28:43

it, and then we'll do trivia again. Did

1:28:46

you see the leaked

1:28:48

email from Elon to Tesla about

1:28:50

how they want to enable full

1:28:52

self-driving on all vehicles leaving the

1:28:54

factory? I saw this headline, but

1:28:56

I didn't actually look into what

1:28:58

is happening? Sure, so Elon sent

1:29:01

out an email that says, going forward, it is

1:29:03

mandatory in North America to install and activate FSD

1:29:05

version 12.3.1 and

1:29:08

take customers on a short test ride before handing

1:29:10

over the car. Almost no one actually realizes how

1:29:13

well supervised FSD actually works. I know this will

1:29:15

slow down the delivery process, but

1:29:17

it is nonetheless a hard requirement. So

1:29:19

it seems like from the factory now,

1:29:22

all of the cars will have it enabled,

1:29:24

and I guess they want people to all

1:29:26

go on test drives and

1:29:28

physically see how FSD works rather

1:29:30

than just people spending, however,

1:29:33

like $15,000 now, but

1:29:36

whatever the price has been fluctuating over the last

1:29:38

10 years. So you

1:29:40

take delivery. So what happens is

1:29:42

if you bought full self-driving, you will accept delivery, and

1:29:44

then you'll get in the car and they'll give you

1:29:46

a quick demo of it, and then you'll leave and

1:29:48

you know how to use it. If you didn't buy

1:29:50

it, you will accept delivery.

1:29:52

They will give you a test ride in

1:29:55

your car, which has it enabled, and then

1:29:57

once the test ride's over, it gets turned

1:29:59

off. And they go make

1:30:01

sure you unlock that. I just realized

1:30:03

you need thousand dollars Yeah, and I

1:30:06

guess that's a pretty brute force way of going our

1:30:09

conversion rate isn't high enough We need more people to

1:30:11

buy FSD. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like

1:30:13

it's along the lines of like we've converted

1:30:15

the like super

1:30:17

fans of Tesla who really want FSD

1:30:20

but now we're like, you know We're

1:30:22

so we're mainstream enough now that enough people

1:30:24

are buying it that aren't really Tesla like

1:30:27

online Tesla people So let's give them a

1:30:30

look at what this is because they're not

1:30:32

reading articles or watching Twitter, right? I

1:30:35

don't like the only people this is gonna work on

1:30:37

is the people that buy the top trim Model S

1:30:40

because $15,000

1:30:42

on top of what you're paying is just insane

1:30:44

that would cost for every most people going into

1:30:46

like a car delivery Like I just want this

1:30:49

over with I can't believe I'm spending this much

1:30:51

money and then them for them to be like

1:30:53

You like that you want to talk about another Well,

1:30:56

I also think it's a you can buy

1:30:58

a subscription, right Yeah, you

1:31:00

do the $200 a month subscription. Is it

1:31:02

that might be what true? That's a good

1:31:05

point That's what that makes way more sense

1:31:07

a good point. It's so much money. You

1:31:09

know, there's a month Yeah, maybe you'll be

1:31:11

that long away. So enhanced autopilot is $6,000

1:31:15

Fs wait, what is in 12,000? What

1:31:18

is enhanced autopilot? auto

1:31:20

lane change and Auto

1:31:23

park and smart summon which is navigate

1:31:25

on autopilot. So what's

1:31:27

it? FSD adds

1:31:31

automatic lane changing positioning on the

1:31:33

highway and overtaking slow cars and

1:31:36

I would not feel comfortable doing

1:31:38

that That's all its own conversation in

1:31:40

itself. Yeah, I mean it's not full

1:31:42

on autopilot autopilot is a whole

1:31:45

nother debate But I think just having

1:31:47

FSD These

1:31:49

acronyms are so nice. I know FSD

1:31:51

is called full self-driving, but it's not

1:31:54

full self-driving It's one step above the

1:31:56

cruise control that is adaptive speed cruise

1:31:58

control. So like right now This

1:32:00

is funny this cyber truck which no matter

1:32:02

what you pay for it doesn't have autopilot

1:32:04

or FSD It just has really adaptive cruise

1:32:06

control and the button is

1:32:08

sitting there in the app We're called autopilot

1:32:11

just cruise control on the adaptive

1:32:13

cruise control on the cyber truck and It's

1:32:16

not I mean it's fine It's basically you still steer everything but

1:32:18

it's keeping the distance with the car in front of you and

1:32:20

that's all that's happening It doesn't even keep you in the lane

1:32:23

doesn't even keep you in the light My

1:32:25

model 3 does that right my

1:32:27

force for free right? So when

1:32:29

you add autopilot or you add

1:32:31

FSD You get

1:32:33

to the point where okay? It'll hold you in the

1:32:35

lane you can switch lanes and it also adds like

1:32:37

the summon feature and auto park and stuff like that

1:32:39

But at least now you can like take your hands

1:32:41

off the wheel and it will glide you around the

1:32:44

highway and that's that's more relaxing

1:32:46

That's what people I think are generally

1:32:48

impressed by and happy to pay for

1:32:51

But then the next highest level of

1:32:53

like full-on autopilot Which is this can

1:32:55

navigate around streets for you and like

1:32:57

stop at intersections and go around roundabouts

1:32:59

and all that stuff that is a

1:33:01

whole separate debate and Only

1:33:04

the highest end like buyers are

1:33:06

even willing to pay for something

1:33:08

like that totally agreed But

1:33:11

yeah, I guess I'm super curious what the

1:33:13

actual numbers are Like how many people actually

1:33:15

do buy autopilot versus apparently not enough sounds

1:33:18

like not enough or the trend is going

1:33:20

down I would guess for sure because Yeah,

1:33:23

that's I think like it's Tesla

1:33:25

Tesla's the most mainstream electric vehicle at

1:33:27

this point to the point where it's

1:33:30

battling against gasoline powered cars Oh my

1:33:32

god, I got it backwards. Sorry autopilot

1:33:34

is the first level and yeah, yeah,

1:33:36

yeah, okay. That's it about it Yeah,

1:33:39

fun naming. Thanks guys. It's very fun.

1:33:41

There's autopilot and then there's also enhanced

1:33:43

autopilot, right? Yeah It's

1:33:49

just enhanced autopilot. Yeah, I think so which includes

1:33:51

navigate on auto and that's not the free one

1:33:54

Oh, so here it is

1:33:56

autopilot is traffic aware cruise control and

1:33:58

auto steer in one Package that's basic

1:34:01

autopilot. That's the free one autopilot No

1:34:03

other adjectives keeps you in the lane

1:34:05

and it keeps you between cars precisely

1:34:07

in hand I'm sorry hands have

1:34:10

to be on the wheel. Yeah, cuz you still

1:34:12

yeah. Yeah, yeah, no no Auto-steer

1:34:15

as I just can't change lane for example.

1:34:17

I have paid for nothing right and my

1:34:19

car auto steers for me Do

1:34:22

you have to even gets on the tunnel he hits the

1:34:24

thing and he? Hands

1:34:26

free yeah for free. Yeah, so like why

1:34:28

would you okay? Okay? I

1:34:31

got you. I got you. I don't want to clarify real quick

1:34:34

I said mine has I have to put my hand on the

1:34:36

wheel every once in a while, but I do have Okay,

1:34:39

you do okay. Yeah, I keep my hand

1:34:41

on the wheel I just don't have to

1:34:43

like pay any attention. I don't know how

1:34:45

to do this, you know, okay just a

1:34:47

recap autopilot It is free. It

1:34:49

is traffic aware cruise control So it'll fall

1:34:52

match the speed of traffic and it will

1:34:54

auto steer to keep you in your marked

1:34:56

lane That is free good

1:34:58

enhanced autopilot Will

1:35:00

get you on and off? Excuse

1:35:03

me, it'll take you on on and off

1:35:05

ramps on freeways It

1:35:07

will do auto lane change which

1:35:09

normal autopilot does not have it

1:35:11

includes autopark summon and smart summon

1:35:15

It's a lot of features as well, but it's also six

1:35:17

thousand dollars. That is enhanced autopilot

1:35:19

Okay, if your car and we can pause

1:35:21

there if your car already will hold its

1:35:23

lane on the highway and turn on highway

1:35:25

lanes are people going to

1:35:27

want to spend the $6,000

1:35:31

for auto lane change and

1:35:34

Getting off the exit ramp stop at the end of the

1:35:36

exit ramp. Yeah, it turns off at the end of the

1:35:38

exit ramp. Wait, so Say

1:35:40

that same again your car already does what

1:35:42

your car does which is all it does

1:35:44

is stay in the lane and the highway

1:35:48

And follow speeds great cool 6,000

1:35:51

more dollars. Yeah for enhanced autopilot

1:35:53

will get you lane auto lane change Yeah, and

1:35:55

it will take the exit ramp to the end

1:35:57

of the exit ramp and it will park and

1:35:59

it and it can do auto park or summon.

1:36:02

I would argue summon is a party trick that

1:36:04

no one uses. But auto park,

1:36:07

debatably useful. I mean

1:36:09

just get good. At

1:36:11

parking, yeah. That's kind

1:36:14

of a tough sell. I gotta say, it's not

1:36:16

a lot like a even tougher sell is

1:36:19