0:00

Today and every day Planned Parenthood

0:02

is committed to ensuring that everyone

0:04

has the information and resources they

0:06

need to make their own decisions

0:09

about their bodies, including

0:11

abortion care. Lawmakers

0:13

who oppose abortion are attacking Planned

0:15

Parenthood, which means affordable, high-quality basic

0:17

health care for more than 2

0:20

million people is at stake. The

0:22

right to control your own body and

0:24

get the health care everyone needs has

0:27

been stolen. And now politicians

0:29

in nearly every state have introduced

0:31

bills that would block people from

0:33

getting the sexual and reproductive care

0:35

they need. Planned Parenthood

0:37

believes everyone deserves health care.

0:40

It's a human right. That's why they

0:42

fight every day to push for common-sense

0:44

policies that protect your right to control

0:46

your own body and against

0:48

policies that interfere with decisions between

0:51

patients and their doctor. Planned

0:53

Parenthood needs your support now more

0:55

than ever. With supporters

0:57

like you, you can help reclaim

1:00

your rights and protect and expand

1:02

access to abortion care. Visit

1:04

plannedparenthood.org/future.

1:08

That's plannedparenthood.org

1:10

slash future. Here's

1:13

an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture

1:15

the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with

1:17

fairy lights and you're vibing with friends.

1:20

You remember you've got to take

1:22

your HIV pill. Important, yes, but

1:24

the fun moment is gone. Did

1:26

you know there's a long-acting treatment

1:28

option available? So catch the

1:30

sunset and keep the party going. Visit

1:33

pillfreehiv.com today to

1:35

learn more. Brought

1:37

to you by Veev Healthcare. Hey,

1:42

girlies. Our summer tour starts in just

1:44

a few weeks. I can't

1:46

believe it. Summer has come up on us

1:48

real quick. I'm ready for it. Okay, but

1:50

we gonna get ourselves together and get ready

1:53

for the road. Boston, you're up first. Friday,

1:55

June 7th, we will be back at WBUR

1:57

City Space. Last year, we had a big

1:59

event. had a great time and we can't wait to

2:01

see you all again. Yes, it

2:03

was so so fun. And then New

2:06

York City on Sunday, June 9th will

2:08

be at the Tribeca Audio Festival with

2:10

special guests, the one, the only, Lena

2:12

Wace. And for our Patreon subscribers, we

2:15

have a special coupon code just for

2:17

you. Also, Los

2:19

Angeles, Sunday, July 14th

2:22

will be at the Ford Theatre, the

2:24

most beautiful outdoor venue in Southern California.

2:26

It's gonna be so much fun, we

2:28

cannot wait to see all of your

2:30

faces. Tickets for all three shows are

2:32

on sale right now. You can find

2:34

the links in our show notes. Alright,

2:36

see you soon. Hey

2:42

ladies. That's my best

2:44

Scarlett Johansson AI voice.

2:47

Leave me into the AI picture,

2:49

Sam Sanders. I will say it

2:51

was your best. Anywho, anywho, I

2:53

am NOT Scarlett Johansson. I'm Sam

2:55

Sanders. And I'm not Jo-Anne Phoenix

2:57

from the movie, I'm

3:04

Zach Sanford. And you're listening to Vibe Check.

3:12

We're about to make the biggest

3:14

pivot. We're gonna talk this week

3:17

about these videos that have

3:19

kind of stopped the internet. Listeners,

3:22

you've probably seen them. We're talking

3:24

about Diddy. After multiple

3:26

allegations of domestic abuse, sexual

3:29

abuse, and sex trafficking, Diddy

3:32

has released an apology video this

3:34

past weekend. This comes

3:36

after CNN released a video of

3:39

Diddy beating the R&B singer Cassie

3:41

in a hotel hallway. Truly

3:43

brutal. We're gonna talk about both of

3:46

those videos and why the reaction to all of

3:48

this is surprisingly mixed.

3:51

So that's first up. But then after

3:53

that, we're gonna talk food. You've Probably

3:55

felt this whether it's McDonald's or

3:58

Outback Steakhouse, the cost of. Fast

4:00

food and fast casual food has

4:02

gone up. A. Lot and now

4:05

some big chains like Red

4:07

Lobster or filing for bankruptcy.

4:09

Even. After a be as a shoutout

4:11

we grieve is dark out here with

4:13

regards out here any who zach will

4:15

lead us and trying to get to

4:17

the bottom of what's going on. With.

4:20

Big food right now. But. Before

4:22

that's less. second ladies, how you

4:24

feel and Zach you go first

4:26

would survive. My. Vices I'm

4:28

kind of hope for is hopeful because I

4:30

mean it's souffles to why and I spent

4:33

a lot of the past twelve hours prepping

4:35

for our conversations today when because we always

4:37

on shop as our best selves but to

4:39

were talking about fast food and how to

4:42

get really up to date a private equity

4:44

some ready to shed a skilled oh that

4:46

when I was looking around equity I was

4:48

like wow I mean so dark, like the

4:51

world feels so like. Bleak.

4:53

When it comes to capitalism and then as

4:55

I was doing that research, I had to

4:57

leave and go to a conversation I had

4:59

last night at So House with i'm Alone

5:01

The Poet is a dear friend for many,

5:03

many years, but we were talking a lot

5:05

about Greece and Death. Or. We talked

5:07

a lot about as oh and it's

5:09

kind of made me feel better for

5:12

after the conversation because awoke reminded me

5:14

that you know life is so precious

5:16

and that everything around us can disappear

5:18

at any moment and because of that

5:20

we should treat everything. And they said

5:23

like god sakes that everything is home

5:25

and everything to be treated with respect

5:27

and dignity and that helped give me

5:29

like a moment of person on freedom

5:31

from office private equity. in all this

5:33

capitalism, all the systems that I never

5:36

create it and. It reminded me to take refuge

5:38

and like. taking care of he by

5:40

love showing love reaching out being there so i'm

5:42

feeling hopeful because i get to see you both

5:44

today after being in a little dark spiral with

5:47

the did he suffered everything were like okay all

5:49

of this is a lot but i got y'all

5:51

i got my man around family and this i'm

5:53

feeling feeling better the six or late this week

5:55

has been really good week of x friends pouring

5:57

and on an island south dark that cetera that.

6:00

Hearing you talk about that, seeing beauty and all

6:02

of it, like I do not know how

6:06

much of my church upbringing I actually

6:08

hold on to, but one of the

6:10

tenets of Christianity that I can still

6:13

enjoy and that gives me hope when this time we were

6:15

talking about this idea that like if

6:17

there is a God and we're made in

6:19

the image of a God, then there's a

6:21

little bit of God in everybody. Yeah. And

6:23

our job is to see it, to

6:26

honor it, to respect it. So like

6:28

I like that. Yeah. There's beauty everywhere

6:30

and we can find it. Yeah.

6:32

And it's also that like heaven, heaven is here, can be

6:34

here on earth. You can make it happen. You can make

6:36

it right here. And that's why we should fight for justice

6:38

and equity and all these things. It's possible now. You don't

6:40

have to wait. Yeah. We can be here now. So that's

6:42

what I'm thinking. I don't want to wait anymore. Love can

6:45

be here now. That's beautiful. Said, what's your

6:47

vibe? My vibe is good.

6:49

You know, the world continues

6:51

to spin, but spin perhaps out

6:53

of a moral orbit

6:57

for all kinds of reasons. And so, yeah,

6:59

I do. I do feel that I have

7:01

been honing this sense of my

7:04

job as a poet, as a writer,

7:07

you know, in many ways is the height of my

7:09

powers. And so when I

7:11

feel a loss of control, because, yeah, there's

7:13

so much that I, you know, I

7:16

wish I could get President Biden to respect the

7:18

ICC proceedings. That would be nice, you know, but

7:20

I don't have this phone number. It's so weird.

7:22

I lost it a few years ago. So instead, I

7:24

have to focus on what I can do. And I

7:26

do see the value

7:28

in my work. I think it's worthwhile.

7:30

I think when I take my time

7:32

and craft and that it's a valuable

7:34

contribution. And so I've been trying to

7:36

like, find the beauty in that

7:38

and really in the humility and appreciate it.

7:41

And something I've noticed as I've been working

7:43

on this chapter of all this research, it's

7:45

really cool when you're doing this work. And

7:47

you're like, damn, it'd be really nice if

7:49

I had a book on X subject. Often,

7:51

that means I'm going to a library, I'm

7:53

going to the Schomburg in New York or

7:55

reaching out to different resources. But it's been

7:57

a hoot y'all see in the Zoom. I'm

7:59

so. surrounded by books, the

8:01

frequency with which books

8:04

I purchased five

8:06

years ago, ten years ago, fifteen

8:08

years ago, have just been sitting on

8:10

my shelves patiently waiting. Waiting for you.

8:13

It makes me so happy. I was just like,

8:15

damn, I wonder if Elizabeth Alexander, and I was

8:17

like, I have her book The Black Interior, and

8:19

then I open it, and it's like a chapter

8:22

on Langston Hughes. I said, ah! Elizabeth

8:24

is going to need her. So

8:26

I think when you can hone

8:28

your appreciation for what you can

8:31

do, it enriches your

8:33

appreciation for the

8:35

beauty of what you're doing, and

8:37

all of the little breadcrumbs you've been

8:39

leaving for yourself. So yeah, there's this

8:42

sense of capability and purpose

8:44

that I feel really appreciative of. Yeah.

8:48

There's beauty in the finished product, but there's also beauty

8:50

in the act of doing the work to make the

8:52

product. I don't

8:54

know, I'm just like, hearing you talk about

8:56

your process, that is just as exciting as

8:58

what we'll get from Zayi when the book

9:00

is done. Yeah. Sam, what's your

9:03

vibe? So my vibe is Texas. I

9:05

sent y'all some images over the weekend.

9:08

It was my first trip home

9:10

since my mother's funeral last summer,

9:12

and I was very worried about

9:14

how it would go, but it

9:16

went well. I was there for

9:18

my godson's eighth grade graduation. We

9:20

love it. We graduated from St.

9:22

Pius Catholic School. He is a

9:24

star athlete who plays basketball, baseball,

9:27

and football. You showed us pictures.

9:29

He's in eighth grade? Yeah. I thought he

9:31

was in high school. We have the

9:33

same shoe size. I thought he

9:36

was graduating high school. Yeah. That's

9:38

a young man. Wow. That's

9:40

wild. Less genetic. Shout out to Isaiah. We

9:42

are all so proud of him. His parents,

9:45

Marcus and Aaron, were

9:47

dear friends of mine in college. I

9:51

was his dad's RA. Aaron and I

9:53

were both RAs together. Best

9:56

friends in college. Biggest thieves. Messy as hell. met

10:00

at one of my RA programs. Oh,

10:02

wait, Sam, have we talked to you? You were

10:04

an RA? I was texting about it. I was

10:06

an RA. Yeah, I was an RA. So you

10:08

were an RA? I was absolutely not an RA.

10:12

With all tracks, Sam and I are

10:14

big RA energy. Yeah. I

10:16

would teach my boys how to iron while

10:18

we watch Crazy Student. I

10:21

would shame my students when they would have alcohol

10:23

and they were underage if it was really bad

10:25

alcohol, as I accommodated it. I'd be like, you

10:27

want to know why you feel bad? This isn't

10:30

plastic. Why are you better than that, Eli?

10:32

I was shocking no one. I

10:34

never got in trouble with my RAs,

10:36

but I was breaking all of the

10:38

rules. So I was very polite, very

10:40

presentable. But I was breaking. I was

10:42

like, oh, how interesting. We can't sneak

10:44

girls into our dorm after midnight.

10:47

We can't have girls as guests, but we

10:49

can have boys. However. This isn't all boys.

10:51

That's it. Gay

10:53

rights isn't somewhere. Exactly. And

10:56

so on top of just being surrounded by

10:58

friends and loved ones all weekend, I

11:00

was also having these moments with

11:02

my God son where I was like, oh, the kids

11:04

are all right. We were able to catch up and

11:06

talk one on one. And he's

11:09

just becoming a really well-rounded human

11:11

being. He talked about

11:14

being an ally to certain folks in his

11:16

life. He talked about, I mean, he's just

11:18

like, he's got a good head

11:20

on his shoulders. And I think of the three

11:22

of us, I am the most likely to kind

11:24

of doomsday the plight of the youths. But

11:27

he reminded me that the kids are all right. And I'm

11:29

just so proud of him and his family

11:31

for raising a good kid. So

11:34

my vibe is heart is full. Isaiah,

11:36

we love you. All right. All right.

11:38

Walk tall, young man. Tall is the

11:40

word. Stop growing, Isaiah. You cannot be taller

11:43

than me. Anywho,

11:47

before we get into this episode, I want

11:49

to thank all of you who sent us

11:51

fan mail and a special shout

11:53

out to those of you who subscribed to

11:55

our Patreon. If you want to

11:57

join that group chat, you can find us at

11:59

Patreon. Alright,

12:04

with that, let's jump in, shall we? Let's

12:08

go. Alright,

12:15

over the weekend, after two days

12:17

of silence following the release of

12:19

a graphic video of Diddy beating

12:21

Cassie Ventura, you might know her

12:23

as R&B singer Cassie, in a

12:25

hotel hallway in 2016, Diddy the

12:27

Rap mogul posted a video to

12:30

Instagram apologizing

12:32

for an incident that until

12:34

now, he has vehemently assisted, never

12:37

happened at all. In

12:39

fact, as of this afternoon, his pinned

12:41

tweet is still his denial of the

12:43

allegations from December. And he, as far

12:45

as I could tell, you

12:48

know, the apologies on Instagram, which obviously millions of

12:50

followers, but he also has millions of followers on

12:52

Twitter, and I did not see that video posted

12:54

there, for what it's worth. Now,

12:57

listeners, we are not going to linger

12:59

on the disturbing details

13:01

of the video or the extensive

13:03

allegations of abuse detailed in the

13:06

35-page lawsuit. But

13:08

it is noteworthy that the lawsuit was settled

13:11

within 24 hours. That's

13:14

interesting. And that

13:16

was before this explosive video, which was

13:18

recorded in March of 2016, was made

13:21

public. And the video is

13:23

just, I would say, however the average

13:26

reader felt about the lawsuit, if you

13:28

then saw the video, you probably feel

13:30

much more strongly. But

13:32

we really want to use this truly developing

13:34

story at this moment. Diddy, for

13:36

example, has not been arrested. His homes have

13:39

been raided. It's clear there's an investigation in

13:41

process, but it is, you know, still very

13:43

much developing. But we wanted

13:45

to talk about and really continue

13:47

our conversation about misogyny in

13:49

hip-hop. The contrast

13:52

to Hollywood's Me Too movement,

13:54

and most importantly, How

13:56

conversations about accountability regarding this,

13:59

you know, The progeny play out

14:01

in our living rooms or barbershops,

14:03

our group chats and our family

14:05

reunions. Okay, let's talk about Buses

14:07

South About this. Talk About Us.

14:09

So to begin, listen again cause

14:11

he's thirty Five page lawsuits is

14:13

the first legal documents I have

14:15

ever seen with a red stamped

14:17

trigger warning on its cover of

14:19

and now we have this video

14:21

in which did He is seemingly

14:23

so comfortable in his position at

14:25

the time in March, Twenty Six

14:28

teams that he's assaulting her in.

14:30

A hotel hallway which is say a

14:32

shared space and an elevator brank where

14:34

he sits down at one point while

14:36

wearing a bath towel like that says

14:38

a lot about how comfortable someone feels

14:40

when entering that and not just outside

14:42

the door of their room. He beats

14:44

or up and down the whole have

14:46

several.nothing other north yeah yeah yeah, have

14:48

them. and then an elevator break. Which

14:50

is to say this is basically in

14:52

plain sight, right? and with knowledge that

14:54

there are cameras ever minimises Amazon or

14:56

new or so of course. And so

14:58

with that in mind we have. Of

15:00

course that video from Twenty sixteen and

15:02

then his apologies. I just wanted to

15:04

start with asking you what have you

15:07

noticed about the various reactions in the

15:09

days since Sam? You said they were

15:11

mixed. Yeah. So I

15:13

follow the journalist and creator Garrick

15:15

Kennedy's and he was posted about

15:17

this study video and then posting

15:20

some reactions from black people from

15:22

black women that were on duty

15:24

side sale and I saw other

15:26

parts of the internet where people

15:28

I would never think would support

15:30

Diddy after that on a video.

15:33

They. Were and I guess I

15:35

was naive and hope for. I

15:37

thought that given the last several

15:39

years of quote unquote progress on

15:41

issues like me to that we

15:44

got into a certain place but

15:46

it was so wild in Twenty

15:48

Twenty Four to see black folks

15:50

still cape and for Diddy after

15:52

all the allegations and after seeing

15:54

him. Beat. Tassie Horribly, it

15:57

really surprise me and I guess I'm

15:59

that a myself for being surprised. What?

16:01

I was surprised. Damn

16:03

I agree. I was shocked to see

16:05

that people were still willing to give

16:07

him many benefits of the doubts even

16:09

as he's you know acknowledging the he

16:11

did something wrong without acknowledging that weeks

16:13

ago he called all of these people

16:16

that came out and said that he

16:18

had hurt them in various ways to

16:20

they're only looking for money for looking

16:22

for save are using him the totally

16:24

denounce everything but now was doing a

16:26

turnabout and with sit acknowledging that yep

16:28

this is a dark time of my

16:30

life I'm been a really shamed all

16:32

of the face and people. Were still

16:34

rationalizing it and it just made me

16:36

sad because our entire lives all three

16:38

of us have seen people rationalize men's

16:41

bad behavior and it just continues a

16:43

continuous fl so similar to the initial

16:45

reactions to Chris Brown beating We Honor

16:47

Nicer to myself for much as the

16:49

be the mugshots read, what else can

16:52

you say death And yet there was

16:54

still folks who were like well what'd

16:56

she do this he deserved This is

16:58

is wild to me. I saw several

17:01

arm and it's sad that I receive

17:03

more. Nuanced reactions That still disturb me

17:05

because the town of a lot of

17:07

reactions I saw. Some of these were

17:09

in the form of op eds or

17:11

you know, serenely tones, tic toc skyn

17:13

a with or something. fucked up things

17:15

were was kind of like Will now

17:17

that we've seen the video. Wow. Wow.

17:20

We really need to reflect

17:22

we oh captain my when

17:24

we were. You

17:27

know see time you up Alpha You'd

17:29

always questioned the we are so important

17:31

and so telling You know because out

17:33

that they are says a lot about

17:35

with that person assumes that you for

17:37

pointing that out. I do have a

17:39

visceral reaction to Do We Exercise and

17:41

Oliver because it's you know. The

17:44

lawsuit is thirty five detailed pages. Again,

17:47

I'm not gonna go, but I mean

17:49

just this. The rich specificity is so

17:51

stunning and I don't even know by

17:53

the to the lawsuit. I think she

17:56

could just said he abused me for

17:58

the shouted this year. Would have

18:00

been like utterly element. It's not that

18:03

complicated, but when people are like oh

18:05

well, this meets my level of jurisprudence,

18:07

it disturbs me. You know, What?

18:09

And is what. I find

18:12

that we never want to talk

18:14

about when these women come forward.

18:16

Suicide? You recommended this documentary on

18:18

the record which I was last

18:20

night. you to Foods so good

18:22

It's so good. But when Drew

18:24

Dixon, a former hip hop executives

18:26

who came forward talking about how

18:28

Russell Simmons raped her and other

18:30

black women and L A Reid

18:32

yeah, She said. When

18:35

you come forward as a woman, When.

18:37

You come forward as a black

18:39

woman, your defiled all over again.

18:42

Yeah, You're damn mild

18:44

all over against and that's why when any

18:46

woman comes forward. I'm going to

18:48

try to believe that yeah, because they're taking

18:51

such a risk and they know it's not

18:53

gonna help them, it's gonna hurt. and we're

18:55

gonna get more into that to in terms

18:58

of specifically black women. But I'm glad you're

19:00

pointing this out because I think he actually

19:02

has so many nuances of people can be

19:04

hateful from at all kinds of reasons he

19:07

doesn't have to be. just one part of

19:09

it is yeah I think there is like

19:11

that I find a bizarre allegiance to these

19:14

male celebrities, but also I sometimes to think

19:16

I think they hate these women. More

19:18

than they actually care about these men. And

19:20

the example I use a story lanes like

19:22

however you feel about did he or someone

19:25

like Russell Simmons those guys are part of

19:27

the infrastructure of what we've come to think

19:29

of his hip hop. Someone who's been what

19:31

my doctors Ray like. they're part of the

19:33

history, their part of the culture of in

19:36

such a seminal way to lose. Can you

19:38

name a songs It was so we are

19:40

doing to see people that Not that this

19:42

is better to be clear, but I was

19:44

like i just think you'll hate this woman.

19:46

I think you hate. Meghan. I think

19:49

you hate cats seats. I think you

19:51

hit Drew Dixon's more than you actually

19:53

care about any of these men's because

19:55

the outpouring of what you're saying is

19:58

like emphases doesn't actually make sense. Yeah.

20:01

Yeah and I think I'm so that you

20:03

for that say because. For. Days

20:05

One of the things I've been thinking

20:07

about a loss is Bell Hooks dissimilar

20:09

scholar who passed away a few years

20:12

ago because see with such an important

20:14

voice in the nineties with the rise

20:16

of gangsta rap in the conversations around

20:18

thanks to and violence in women's and

20:20

how white people and media were pointing

20:22

the finger and saying look at these

20:24

black people glamorizing beating women, hurting women,

20:26

selling drugs and all these things And

20:28

she was Ikea girl that's sign There

20:31

is massage units in hip pops, there

20:33

is violence, These men are men and.

20:35

When the rules of manhood that they

20:37

are taught his to subjugate women that

20:39

is as old as time itself. However,

20:42

Hip hop exists within a larger system

20:44

cause capitalism called the patriarchy called the

20:46

music industry. In those systems are built

20:48

on the subjugation of women and the

20:50

buying and selling of women and hurting

20:53

women and black people. All of these

20:55

things so series and points. Youth black

20:57

people trying to survive within the systems

20:59

and follow the rules have been built

21:01

for them. but who built the rules,

21:04

who created the environment. And that's what

21:06

we're reckoning with right now isn't That's

21:08

why did he who is a billionaire

21:10

was able to do this for so

21:12

many years? Because he played by the

21:14

capitalistic rules and was protected the whole

21:16

time in that is the problem. Thank

21:18

you for taking it there because at

21:20

one point in the documentaries Doctor Timberly

21:22

Crenshaw who coined the term intersectionality, we

21:25

did this time from a black woman.

21:27

She's many contributions She says, for example,

21:29

you know in our culture many people

21:31

believe that you can't rape a black

21:33

woman because there's nothing a black woman.

21:35

Won't do that. Is this white supremacists

21:37

conception of black women as this the

21:40

just about the venus hot hot figure

21:42

of you know continues to be so

21:44

pervasive. One of the consequences is they

21:47

can't be victims and the way that

21:49

it since he all white woman would

21:51

be. It's. wild you mention that

21:53

because there's a moment in the documentary were

21:56

drew dixon is laying out like yes businesses

21:58

and knee and hip hop But

22:00

all genres do this then they play

22:02

a clip of a rolling stone montage

22:05

Mick Jagger sings well black girls

22:07

want to fuck all night. He

22:10

sings that yeah, there's a Beatles song in that

22:12

montage I can't remember the song they but I

22:14

was like Wild

22:17

and I was really interested in the

22:19

way drew talked about hip-hop and how

22:21

it works in this doc you know,

22:23

she's talking about being abused by these

22:25

executives and Talking about working

22:28

in this industry putting hip-hop on But

22:31

she said over time she realized the

22:33

language of the music set a tone

22:36

She said that quote and it's got me

22:38

reflecting a lot on What

22:42

we allow these black men to say about

22:44

black women in these songs and what we

22:46

dance to I remember as a youth

22:48

in college In high school, you'd always say well, they

22:50

ain't talking about me. They ain't talking about her

22:53

But they're talking about somebody

22:55

and like drew says this

22:57

normalizes behavior and allows for

22:59

behavior I'm willing to

23:02

accept responsibility for Before

23:04

the homophobia got too much to me and that's the

23:06

other thing, you know Everyone's fine with it until it

23:09

starts to feel too personal for them We're

23:11

like, yeah, but they're talking about women and I'm not

23:13

but you know about me when I was younger I

23:16

think I bought into this idea that they were

23:18

using the music like let's say the sexist lyrics

23:20

right in the in the early 90s in particular

23:22

that's when I'm talking about like as a kid

23:25

that this was them letting off steam And

23:28

that it was better for them to let

23:30

off steam in their songs than to do

23:32

it in real life. That was the mental

23:35

gymnastics I was doing

23:37

as a young person and then as I said

23:40

When as I started to get more in touch

23:42

with my my own sexuality And then I remember

23:44

in particular I can't remember the name of the

23:46

song but like a nah song where faggot and

23:48

I think he's like dragging Jay-Z Yeah,

23:51

that slur comes up over and over all of a

23:53

sudden. I was like, they're not letting off You know

23:55

what when it felt like a clear and present danger.

23:57

I couldn't accept it anymore and I

23:59

want to acknowledge that. So I want to,

24:01

I mean, as we begin to move

24:04

toward the end of the conversation, you

24:06

know, it's clear that the Me Too

24:08

movement in Hollywood was primarily benefited

24:10

white women of means. It's significant

24:12

that the language of Me Too

24:14

comes from a black woman Tarana

24:17

Burke. So even if Me Too

24:19

didn't do much to benefit black

24:21

women, Me Too benefited from black

24:23

women's thinking and ideas and work.

24:25

What role do you think race

24:28

plays into the continued

24:30

pervasiveness of misogyny and hip-hop?

24:32

Yeah. What I found very interesting

24:34

is to take it back to this doc and

24:36

say thank you for having us watch it. Excellent.

24:39

And this is, and I have to thank my

24:41

friend Tanya who's, who's been mentioning this documentary for

24:43

weeks. Yeah. Yeah. So Drew

24:45

Dixon, who was assaulted by Russell

24:47

Simmons by L.A. Reed, she

24:50

talked about being afraid to come forward

24:52

and not just afraid, but like she

24:55

basically said, I know how this plays

24:57

out. And she said, I saw Anita

24:59

Hill speak out against Clarence Thomas and

25:01

did her career. She says, I

25:04

saw Desiree Washington talk about

25:06

Mike Tyson raping her and

25:09

then black folks shamed her

25:11

out of public life. So she said,

25:13

I know this script. History

25:16

tells us how black women will be treated

25:18

if and when they come

25:20

forward. And I hope that

25:22

what's going on now with Cassie

25:24

represents a shift for people of

25:26

color. But I don't know.

25:29

Zach, what do you think? I'm thinking

25:31

a lot about this term Bell

25:33

Hooks uses, which is patriarchal violence.

25:35

She asks us to

25:37

stop saying domestic violence when talking about

25:39

situations with Cassie and

25:42

Diddy and rather label it patriarchal

25:44

violence, meaning that Diddy through his

25:46

actions is maintaining or trying to

25:48

maintain his manhood, that he's invested

25:50

in the project or the religion

25:53

of masculinity. And part of that

25:55

project is hurting and subjugating women.

25:58

And I think race is definitely interwoven. into that. He's

26:00

a black man having to exist in a very white

26:02

world and is following rules that have been set up

26:04

for him that say, you know, as a black man,

26:06

that's a billionaire, you have to treat women like this,

26:08

but white women like that, black women like this. And

26:11

all this stuff stacked up. And I think we

26:13

do not need to give him any grace whatsoever.

26:16

But I think we have to have that intersectional

26:18

conversation. He brought up that word intersectionality to

26:21

actually understand how violence here is incredibly

26:23

pervasive and it and it flourishes in

26:25

all the systems that we hold dear

26:27

and that, you know, we have to

26:29

deconstruct it all to get through

26:31

this together. And it is incredibly complicated.

26:33

You know, one in four women are

26:35

survivors of domestic violence and abuse. I

26:38

know so many women in my life who have faced

26:40

so much violence. I know so many queer people, men,

26:43

and you know, a lot of us have

26:45

felt too stuck or frozen by our own

26:47

trauma to do anything for other people. And

26:49

I would say, you know, you don't have

26:51

to let your experiences stop you from helping

26:53

others. You don't have to expect that the

26:55

world is going to be this violent all

26:57

the time. It can break and we

26:59

must move to a place where we should break it. If

27:02

white supremacy was responsible

27:04

for situations in which false

27:07

accusations of sexual violence led

27:09

to the murder of kids

27:11

like Emmett Till and many

27:13

men, right, were specifically lynching

27:15

had a direct connection to

27:17

black men being accused of

27:19

sexual violence. If that

27:21

legacy then leads us into the nineties and

27:23

two thousands and now where we are in

27:25

a new century where as

27:28

someone in the documentary says, this is

27:31

Dr. Kimberly Kinshaw again, you feel your

27:33

responsibility is to muffle your screams, that

27:36

that responsibility is greater than his responsibility

27:38

not to do it in the first

27:40

place. If that's where we ended up,

27:42

the lesson is not my love. The

27:44

lesson is not we must protect black

27:47

men who are doing harm. The lesson

27:49

is we have to dismantle white supremacy.

27:51

That its legacy is far more toxic

27:53

and poisonous than we give it credit

27:55

for. I'm so glad you

27:57

brought that up because I wanted to bring up a

27:59

term. that that film brought to me

28:01

that sums it up, this idea of race

28:04

loyalty. I gotta be

28:06

quiet so I can protect these black men because

28:08

society is so harsh to these black men anyway.

28:10

We gotta get over that. Race

28:12

loyalty will have you dead. So I

28:14

don't know. I'm hopeful for change. I'm

28:16

hopeful that this represents a moment where

28:18

we look at these things and change

28:21

behavior, but we shall

28:23

see, huh? Yeah, I mean, yeah, just this

28:25

is an ongoing conversation that, you know, if

28:27

you haven't listened to our conversation about Kendrick

28:29

and Drake, please do because I do think

28:31

it's all connected, but it's striking. You know,

28:33

I'm like, wait a minute. He wasn't loyal

28:35

to you, right? Like you

28:39

too are a member of this history and

28:41

race that deserves to be protected and honored,

28:43

and you have been disrespected. He was not

28:45

trying to be loyal to you and you

28:47

are a part of us as well. So

28:49

we'll leave it there for now. But again,

28:51

I cannot recommend enough.

28:53

Thank you to my dear friend, Tanya

28:55

Menendez, who is a media scholar for

28:58

recommending the 2018 documentary on the record.

29:01

It's a perfect follow up to this conversation.

29:03

Okay, we'll leave it there for now, but

29:05

stay tuned and we'll be back to talk

29:07

about food. We do

29:09

the big turns on this show. We be one 83

29:11

60, all of it. Start

29:20

clean with Clorox because Clorox delivers

29:23

a powerful clean every time. Because

29:25

messes happen. Because... Another

29:28

charcoal masquerade because why would I put that on my

29:30

face when I could drop it in my sink? This

29:32

is what I get for multitasking. Ugh, why is charcoal

29:34

so sticky? Hello. Hey Janice, I

29:36

am so sorry I thought I was on

29:38

mute. No, we don't need to reschedule. I'll

29:40

just stay off camera. Ooh,

29:43

yeah, that happens. So start clean with

29:45

Clorox. Use Clorox products at the store.

29:48

Use Clorox product after it. There

29:51

are two things that are absolutely true. Grandma

29:54

loves and she would never say

29:56

no to me. So treat yourself to a

29:58

grandma McFlurry with your order today. What

30:01

grandma would want? I

30:04

participated in McDonald's for a limited time. Listeners,

30:14

we are back and it's time to talk

30:16

the state of fast food. So

30:18

over the past year, if you're a lover

30:20

of TikTok, you may have noticed a trend.

30:23

People are rushing to Red Lobster for their

30:25

all-you-can-eat shrimp special, which was from

30:27

my childhood. Was it from you guys in childhood

30:29

too? Do you remember this? Shrimp feed. Yeah, huge

30:31

thing. I was there mostly for the biscuits, I'll

30:33

be honest, but I do remember it when I

30:35

was a kid. And those biscuits were and continued

30:38

to be incredible. So Red

30:40

Lobster's iconic, Beyonce made it iconic again,

30:42

but it wasn't till the past year that

30:45

they tried to do this all-you-can-eat shrimp thing

30:47

again. It was to save their business and

30:49

it did work, kinda. They saw a huge

30:51

spike of customers because TikTok was driving so

30:53

many people there for a TikTok challenge of

30:55

how many pieces of shrimp you could eat

30:57

and people were going crazy on that. However,

30:59

it created millions of dollars of losses for

31:02

them and the total for that loss over

31:04

the past year has been $11 million. That

31:06

has led to them filing for Chapter 11

31:08

protection and shuttering many of the restaurants

31:11

across the country this week, leaving hundreds

31:13

of people without jobs. However,

31:15

while you may be seeing headlines that

31:17

all-you-can-eat shrimp, meaning you going there and

31:19

eating all-you-can-eat shrimp may have caused the

31:21

demise of this company, doesn't feel right.

31:24

It feels like there's something off of

31:26

that thesis there. And we

31:28

want to dive into that today. What's going on

31:30

with food? Why are all these fast casual restaurants

31:32

we grew up with that are the only options

31:34

for people in food deserts either

31:37

disappearing or becoming so expensive that no

31:39

one can afford them? So

31:41

to begin, I'd love to hear, Sam, you're not on

31:43

TikTok. Have you been watching this stream? I've been looking

31:45

a little bit. I've been looking a little bit. What

31:48

do you think of this, like, rise of the all-you-can-eat

31:50

buffet? And was that a big part of your childhood

31:52

for you? I remember

31:54

going to Red Lobster for, like, birthdays.

31:56

It was, like, a nice fancy thing.

31:58

And I remember loving Outback

32:00

Steakhouse as a kid. And like when we

32:03

got to go there, the Blooming Onion was

32:05

like, wow. But when I

32:07

think of these places now, and when I've

32:09

been to them in adulthood, I've noticed the

32:11

quality of the food is just dramatically worse.

32:15

Food that used to taste like they were

32:17

cooked over a stove or in an oven,

32:19

they tasted microwaved, smaller portions,

32:21

worse ingredients. And so part of

32:23

me sees some of these fast-casual

32:25

chains experiencing a decline, and

32:28

I'm like, well, I see why the

32:30

quality's down. Yeah. Yeah, I

32:32

think of, particularly when I was growing

32:34

up in North Texas, but Memphis too,

32:37

certainly, Memphis was like chains like Piccadilly's

32:39

Cafeteria. My grandmother and I would

32:41

go every Sunday after church. Or

32:43

in North Texas, it would be like

32:45

El Phoenix, the Tex-Mex chain,

32:48

or Spring Creek Barbecue. My mom and

32:50

I loved going to Spring Creek Barbecue.

32:52

These fast-casual places, I think

32:55

for so many families, are

32:57

like a place of joy, dignity,

33:00

frankly. And you are having a night

33:02

out. You're served. You're served. You

33:05

have a good time. You're around

33:08

other families and other people.

33:10

And I think poverty or

33:12

being working poor, one

33:14

of the ways it really weighs on you, and I

33:16

can speak to this from growing up, is it's isolating.

33:19

Much of what you're having to deal with

33:21

is the things you can't do, and so

33:23

you're contracted into your life. You're

33:26

contracted into your little apartment until you're broke

33:28

down car. And so when you are finally

33:30

able to go to a Red Lobster

33:32

and have a nice dinner, it's not

33:34

just what's happening at your table. It's

33:36

also like we're back in.

33:38

We're part of the world again. And

33:41

I do think it's a real loss

33:43

to see the quality and the dignity

33:45

and the literal closures happening with these

33:47

places. Well, and Another

33:50

thing I was reading about these fast-casual

33:52

restaurants. That might be part of their

33:54

problem right now, and why a lot

33:56

of them are shutting down. We're seeing

33:58

Applebee shut down doors. Every

34:00

best casual chain sell all of

34:02

them are shutting all of us,

34:05

but court says reported that it's

34:07

just gotten more expensive to eat

34:09

out period. So inflation has affected

34:11

all of us. but courts found

34:13

that food inflation in the Us

34:15

has impacted food away from home

34:18

prices more than food at home

34:20

prices. So the cost of food

34:22

is appears rainbow Courses same the

34:24

way a son in restaurants as

34:26

even more inflated. And then I

34:29

was in part. Of the problems and

34:31

now I'm so that you're bringing that

34:33

up because that's fact is directly connected

34:35

to Red Lobster and Mrs. I'm going

34:37

away and out. So you know you

34:39

have in Twenty Sixteen Sixteen. Doubtless the

34:41

last big era you remember of the

34:43

value meals a fast food restaurants like

34:45

the five for for a burger Kings

34:47

the three for for for me to

34:50

all of the line your license for

34:52

five Nuggets I we're nice. All of

34:54

that may have that in the reason

34:56

why all of that really peace in

34:58

Twenty Fifteen Twenty Six seem. With because

35:00

press on such a portly and naira

35:02

are rising and those are kind of.

35:04

And between the silly but losses or

35:06

Mcdonalds is this other medium which. Is. Like

35:09

a fast casual but it's like when you're not need we

35:11

sit. Down with the waiter but you

35:13

get nicer food and all that to

35:15

those were booming people love to pull

35:17

a message, probably continue to flourish. So

35:20

these restaurants began fighting for their rights

35:22

to have province with these really cheap

35:24

meals. However, I'm at same time is

35:27

over member the river, what was bubbling

35:29

at at the surface and fast food

35:31

and twenty six seem twenty seventeen. The

35:34

fight for fifteen minimum wage. Ah now

35:36

the as they're doing these value million

35:38

workers are like I'm overworked and underpaid.

35:41

And genome having to sell out

35:43

all these December results so they're lowering

35:45

prices while they have to pay their

35:48

workers more. Exactly. So they argued

35:50

that. The. Fight for seen as was

35:52

cutting into their profits so that the

35:54

jacked up these prices asu to pay

35:56

for their transferring the the weights of

35:58

paying people equitably. To us as

36:01

the consumers and then it's fleet.

36:03

The situation for Red Lobster is

36:05

now cheaper then Mc Donald's which

36:07

in Connecticut certain one editor for

36:09

example. wow, that's pretty shocking. Yeah,

36:11

a Big Mac is twenty two

36:13

dollars for a meal. And surprise,

36:15

the Connecticut's. Stops

36:18

Way way way way way. of

36:21

Mcdonalds big mans like with the fries and

36:23

are you drink or meal I can send

36:25

you have they in the near post last

36:27

week I think by it went viral to

36:29

the. Guy would to a truck stops and

36:31

they sort of eighteen dollars for the meal

36:34

and it went up from there and it's

36:36

for the burger future ahead of the rise

36:38

of the and let me tell you this.

36:40

My first job was Mcdonalds employee the month

36:42

twice. I can tell you what Big Macs

36:45

tasted like when I was working there in

36:47

high school. They tasted twice as good as

36:49

they taste. Now. That this is

36:51

a saying. It's like while all the

36:53

prices have gone up and I get

36:55

have an raise, Your prices on a

36:57

scooter is worse than I remember when

36:59

Mcdonald stopped using actual. Second chance

37:01

to make their nuggets in went to Pink

37:04

Slime. I. Could tell the difference and

37:06

I'm seeing all those differences happen across

37:08

fast casual food all over the country

37:10

and so what we seen and it's

37:12

going to lead us into the private

37:14

equity part of this performance piece today

37:16

of zapping a financial advisors never harm

37:18

is are friends with other laws of

37:20

yeah artists are still have this culminating

37:22

saying you have you know I suppose

37:24

rising Mcdonalds or China Katsav the reason

37:26

the prices minimum wage is being passed

37:28

and places like California symptom of us

37:30

have to pay more profits. other subs

37:32

happening and then. The. pandemic hits

37:34

an inflation puppets us and so all

37:36

of these business spiral out of control

37:39

and places like red lobster and sinhalese

37:41

made their prices so low to be

37:43

competitive however they couldn't pay their bills

37:46

with those low prices because most of

37:48

them have now been acquired by private

37:50

equity firms so what are you guys

37:53

think when you're private equity do need

37:55

like a quick crash course of what

37:57

was forty this business that has her

38:00

I'm gonna tell you why I feel my

38:02

and and I've railed against this before on the

38:04

show I think the era of

38:06

private equity in the era of

38:09

shareholder primacy has Affected

38:13

for the worst so

38:15

many parts of most Americans everyday lives when

38:18

private equity comes in the Incentive

38:21

moves from making customers happy

38:23

to maximizing profits for executives

38:25

and shareholders and that changes

38:27

everything Yeah, I

38:29

guess what I would say is based on

38:32

and this is based on my experience as

38:34

a consumer but also like someone who's worked

38:36

in media at my senses that I feel

38:38

that venture capital pops up and Says

38:40

hello company. You're doing something really interesting

38:43

We are going to throw way more

38:45

money at you Then you

38:47

would ever actually need or be able to

38:49

sustain so that we can hold you to

38:51

impossible standards And then here comes

38:53

the layoffs here comes everything falling apart

38:55

just a few years later And then

38:57

private equity kind of ends up in

38:59

the same place But in the opposite

39:01

like I feel like private equity now

39:04

that heightens the screws Immediately

39:06

and again sets really really

39:08

high expectations So for example,

39:10

I know that like the private equity company that messed

39:12

up red luster is behind chicken of

39:15

the sea Chicken of the sea wasn't doing so

39:17

well And

39:19

so suddenly all these red luster places are

39:21

having to play rent on their own restaurants,

39:23

which yes wait Let me use that example.

39:26

You said pay rent on their own restaurants

39:28

Let's a great segue to explaining very quickly

39:30

with private equity is so private

39:33

equity is What's I

39:35

just said about VCs and PE is very

39:37

true private equity how it works here Let's

39:39

use red lobster as an example Red

39:42

lobster is battling these wars of you

39:44

know, higher wages all the stuff

39:46

in 2016 They finally

39:48

bring in a PE firm firm buys

39:51

them and they're like, hey We

39:53

Don't have the money to buy you. You're valued

39:55

really high. I think a hundred plus million dollars?

39:57

Something really high, but we have. You know, With

40:00

caught sixty million dollars on his. So we're

40:02

gonna do six see up front. See you

40:04

and them. When we acquire Red Lobster, we're

40:07

going to use Red Lobsters valuation of let's

40:09

say one hundred twenty million dollars to raise

40:11

the other sixty to pay the owners. So

40:13

what they do that they have the hundred

40:15

twenty million dollars and exhibit to the original

40:18

owners of a lot of the like your

40:20

goodness. So now the new owners of Red

40:22

Lobster had sixty million dollars in. This isn't

40:24

the right number but I'm using for example

40:27

sixty million dollars of debt that with leveraged

40:29

they got I. Our love soon as they

40:31

now need to pay off and with their bet

40:33

is that a Red Lobster was one hundred twenty

40:35

million dollars and acquisitions They think they can for

40:37

the for seven hundred million one which means in

40:39

the next year's of their able to flip It's

40:42

not only were they make their money back and

40:44

also pay themselves yearly fees for overseeing the business

40:46

they will than. Quadruple their profits

40:48

very quickly And what they do immediately

40:50

most of the time is a lot

40:52

of these businesses have assets that makes

40:54

them valuable. Like owning their own restaurant,

40:56

Red Lobster own all of their location

40:58

immediately. The first private equity group him

41:00

and said sell off the restaurants. they

41:02

sold most of the restaurants and then

41:04

say made sixty four million dollars off

41:06

That's they paid back that original debt

41:08

that they took out. Never good at

41:10

zero. Who did they sell them To

41:12

Sergeant The Pause to another from Gods

41:14

Who Than Is Made All of those

41:17

franchises start. Paying rent which they had never

41:19

been paid rent like this and forever that's

41:21

a cast on top of. Just figure out

41:23

why I wasn't there before us abreast down.

41:25

It's impossible for them that ran it down

41:27

and then they had no more. you know

41:29

little and move to save themselves. But they

41:31

made their money back. They made their sixty

41:33

million bucks. they're cool. Pass it onto another

41:35

private equity groups. They pass it onto a

41:37

tie company that specializes in seafood said they

41:39

brought back or you can eat shrimp. said

41:41

that they could sell their fists to Red

41:43

Lobster made relaxer bile. the says he was

41:45

something in to even greater deaths and. now

41:47

we're at the moment for all avenues

41:49

have been exhausted by private equity firms

41:52

have come in levers assets to make

41:54

more money but also put deaths on

41:56

the asset that is red lobster and

41:58

our laps or has have relevant And

42:00

that is private equity. And this

42:02

is why I don't like private equity because

42:04

when you look at this red lobster example,

42:07

all of the people who made money

42:09

flipping red lobster left and right to

42:11

and fro aren't at all attached to

42:13

food, aren't at all

42:15

attached to your human experience when you go

42:17

into a red lobster. And

42:19

red lobster store owners and workers to

42:22

keep up with these new demands, they

42:25

probably had to work harder,

42:27

longer hours, use cheaper ingredients

42:29

and give customers a lesser

42:31

experience. So we have

42:33

this scenario that happens a lot where private

42:35

equity makes a lot of money

42:37

for people not even tied to the product

42:40

while the people who are tied to the

42:42

product and making it get a worse experience.

42:45

We're actually seeing this happen right now in

42:47

the world of veterinary care. Private

42:49

equity is buying up a bunch of

42:51

vet offices all over the country. And

42:53

what it's leading to is higher

42:56

cost for basic services for your pets. It's not

42:58

making it better for us. It's making it worse

43:00

for us. Zach, the way you

43:02

were able to explain something very complicated

43:04

and a very concise way with that

43:06

example was really great. But it's also

43:08

like in the meantime, like, you know,

43:10

impossible situation on top of impossible situation,

43:13

you have customers and

43:16

employees being turned against each

43:18

other. And what we

43:20

see in the news is not a conversation

43:22

about private equity and the impossible burden it

43:25

puts on all of us. It's a conversation

43:27

about how paying people a living minimum wage

43:29

is to blame for all of this. And

43:31

that's not the case. It's not minimum wage.

43:34

I've even seen the ways in

43:36

which these acquisitions and mergers make

43:39

the jobs of the actual

43:42

employees untenable. I remember when

43:44

Whole Foods got bought by

43:46

Amazon. All of a

43:49

sudden, Whole Foods went from being people's

43:51

favorite place to work to their least

43:53

favorite place to work. Because on top

43:56

of just keeping the store going, Amazon

43:58

introduced this intricate delivery system. So

44:01

they doubled the work of all the employees and

44:03

didn't double their salary. This is

44:05

the thing. It's like when we see fast

44:07

food customers get mad about bad

44:09

quality food or fast

44:12

food employees being stressed, it's

44:15

because they've been given untenable

44:18

situations from owners who will only see

44:20

profit. Which is why you should treat

44:22

those people working with dignity and respect.

44:24

It is not their fault. Because

44:28

we're just at this point with

44:30

late capitalism where we're seeing capitalism

44:32

cannibalize itself. There's no new

44:34

innovation. The only way to

44:36

make money is to eat other people's money,

44:38

basically, is what we're seeing now. The

44:42

big takeaway here is whenever you see private

44:44

equity enter the picture, statistically, that company

44:46

is going to fail. In the next few years, the

44:48

New York Times has reported a ton on this. So

44:50

be wary when you see PE enter because what that

44:53

company is doing is they're flipping it for profit really,

44:55

really fast. And sometimes that works out. Burger King had

44:57

this happen to them and they became a global leader.

44:59

But most of the time, it doesn't work. So again,

45:01

we say this a lot. Don't trust capitalism. It's never

45:04

going to look out for you or your family at

45:06

the end of the day. And private

45:08

equity is capitalism. Well, with that,

45:10

we're going to take another quick break. But don't go

45:12

anywhere. We'll be right back with some recommendations. Dive

45:20

into the start of summer at

45:22

Whole Foods Market. Check out their

45:24

summer splash event with sales on

45:26

fresh organic produce, organic strawberries, and

45:28

a fan favorite sale on Ben

45:30

& Jerry's and Tlinti. Explore deals

45:32

on grill friendly meats like organic

45:34

air chilled chicken breast, beef and

45:36

chicken kebabs, all with no antibiotics

45:38

ever from our meat department. Plus,

45:40

grab easy sides from prepared foods

45:42

and cool off with refreshing drinks.

45:44

Kick off your summer and shop

45:46

in store or online at Whole

45:48

Foods Market today. your

46:00

order today. Grandma would like to

46:02

say, pa-da-pa-pa-pa, all participating McDonald's for

46:04

a limited key. All

46:14

right, we're back. And before we end the show, like

46:16

we always do, we're going to take some time

46:18

to each share something that's helping us keep our

46:21

vibes right this week. Let's

46:23

start with Zach.

46:26

I'd love to. So my recommendation

46:28

this week is a new book that comes

46:30

out today. The book

46:32

is called A Great Gay Book, Stories of

46:35

Growth, Belonging, and Other Queer Possibilities. It was

46:37

edited by... I love that title. I know,

46:39

it's a great title. It's edited by Ryan

46:41

Fitzgibbon, who is the founder of the magazine

46:43

Hello, Mr. Which I believe was Said Jones'

46:45

first cover of a magazine back in the

46:48

day. Yes. Yes,

46:50

and Said is in this book.

46:52

They reflect on that moment in

46:54

the culture. People aren't aware of

46:57

Hello, Mr. Was, an iconic queer magazine that launched in

46:59

about 2013, I believe. I Ryan,

47:01

I was a part of the launch in the

47:03

beginning as a friend and an advisor, and it

47:06

became this staple within a lot of coastal cities,

47:08

especially. It was very sexy. It's very sexy. A

47:10

lot of... Smart. A lot of... Which I liked.

47:12

Yeah, so smart. Said, they're so smart, they put

47:15

Said on a cover. It's a really smart move.

47:18

The magazine closed due to how the magazine business goes,

47:20

but this book is a reflection on

47:23

its history, but also with new work. Sam,

47:25

your name is in it too, because when they talk about Said,

47:27

they talk about us, vibe check. Oh, very nice. But

47:30

what I really love about the book is that my

47:32

boyfriend, Craig, is in the book. He has an

47:35

essay in it. He has

47:37

a really wonderful piece in it. Yeah, they

47:39

commissioned him to write about Mormonism and porn

47:41

and all these other things, and

47:43

it's really juicy. It's very sexy. I

47:45

love it. I'm very proud of him.

47:48

It's been to point to my earlier

47:50

statement about just feeling friends pouring in

47:52

and loving my community. I loved opening

47:54

that book and seeing Said, seeing Craig,

47:57

seeing Ryan, seeing Fran Toronto, seeing so

47:59

many people. I've known since I was

48:01

in college, you know, in a book. It's so

48:03

exciting. I love that. I just pulled up Said's

48:05

cover. You give him face, baby. Oh Yeah,

48:13

and friend Toronto wrote the article about me and

48:15

that I remember that was really beautiful Oh,

48:17

we love friend I've come to again

48:19

have such appreciation for these kinds of books

48:21

because this is an example of a contemporary

48:24

archive and 1020

48:26

years from now think about how valuable it

48:28

will be to have this book that

48:31

it's like it is a slice of

48:33

life For really a decade of queer

48:35

culture, particularly in New York City and

48:37

those those books become really important So

48:39

thank you Ryan for doing this work.

48:42

All right side what you got for us? So

48:44

I thought I would read a moody poem from

48:46

one of my favorite moody books It

48:49

is Meadowlands by Louise Gluck I think

48:51

this was my introduction to her work

48:53

and Made me fall in

48:55

love with poetry and in all kinds of

48:58

ways as a college student Um, it is

49:00

based on the myth of Penelope and Odysseus

49:02

and everything they kind of go through But

49:05

she sets it in a like

49:07

contemporary family's husband and wife drama So it's

49:09

kind of we're going back and forth and

49:12

if if you remember Odysseus goes off to

49:14

war and he's gone for what he thinks

49:16

is gonna be like, you know a few

49:18

months maybe a year He's gone for 12

49:21

years and he leaves his wife

49:23

and his son who's like a teenager by the

49:25

time he comes home You know, so just a

49:27

lot happens. So this is kind of going back

49:30

and forth between those two stories departure

49:34

The night isn't dark. The

49:37

world is dark Stay with

49:39

me a little longer Your

49:41

hands on the back of the chair, that's

49:43

what I'll remember before

49:45

that lightly stroking my

49:48

shoulders like a man

49:50

training himself to avoid the heart in

49:53

The other room the maid discreetly putting out

49:55

the light I read by that

49:58

room with its chalk walls.

50:01

How will it look to you, I wonder, once

50:04

your exile begins? I

50:07

think your eyes will seek out its light,

50:10

as opposed to the moon. Apparently,

50:13

after so many years, you need

50:15

distance to make plain its intensity.

50:18

Your hands on the chair, stroking

50:21

my body and the wood in

50:24

exactly the same way. Like

50:27

a man who wants to feel longing

50:29

again, who prizes

50:31

longing above all

50:33

other emotion. On

50:36

the beach, voices of the Greek

50:38

farmers impatient for sunrise as though

50:40

dawn will change them from farmers

50:42

into heroes. And before

50:45

that, you are holding me because

50:47

you are going away. These

50:50

are statements you are making, not

50:54

questions needing answers. How

50:57

can I know you love me unless

51:00

I see you breathe over

51:03

me? That's

51:06

the poem. Louise Gluck

51:08

did not play. She never played. She

51:10

never played. She won the Nobel Prize

51:13

for reasons before she passed away. The

51:15

book is Meadowlands. You can get the

51:20

book and read it in her collected poems.

51:22

She is incredible. I was

51:24

reading along with you as you were saying it

51:27

out loud because I love to do that. I

51:29

saw that last line coming. It's like when the

51:31

roller coaster gets up to the top before it

51:40

goes. I felt that way before that last little

51:42

thing. Let

51:45

me find another quick line in another poem I love

51:48

so much. You don't even need the

51:50

context. But again, it's kind of before

51:52

Odysseus goes off. This is the last

51:54

couplet of the poem. The

51:56

title of the poem is Quiet Evening. She ends the

51:58

poem by saying, from this point on the

52:01

silence through which you move is

52:04

my voice pursuing you. Know

52:07

her. There's such a

52:10

toughness to her work.

52:16

It's haunting and it just feels

52:18

like, it's always like, I don't know,

52:20

she makes me think of like the mom

52:23

in the salt burn, like beautiful gals and everything,

52:25

but she might have a knife. You

52:27

know what I mean? It's very like Joan

52:29

Didion. This

52:33

is a perfect setup for my recommendation. Oh

52:35

good. Alright, what's your recommendation?

52:37

Moody with a punch. I

52:40

have been devouring the new

52:42

Billie Eilish album called Hit Me

52:44

Hard and Soft. I'm

52:47

gonna be honest and say I'm not sure I love

52:49

the whole album, but there is one

52:51

track on this album that

52:53

is a sucker punch and it builds

52:56

and grows on you. The

52:58

song is called Chihiro. It's

53:00

the Japanese name. C-H-I-H-I-R-O. And

53:05

it starts off as a very

53:07

kind of typical Billie

53:09

Eilish, Phineas collab, mid-tempo

53:11

shuffle, soft bedroom

53:14

pop Billie Eilish vocals, Phineas

53:16

synths. It's like a groove that you

53:18

expect from these two at this point,

53:21

but something happens and it builds and

53:23

about two minutes in, the

53:26

synths hit this crescendo.

53:28

It's like the orchestra of synths starts

53:30

screaming at you and then you hear

53:33

Billie start to scream herself but she's

53:35

screaming like she's 20 feet away from

53:37

the mic. It

53:59

is. magical. I

54:01

love it when pop songs use dynamics

54:03

and get in power and softer and

54:05

give you peaks and valleys. There's a

54:07

drama in it that I love. It's

54:10

also so great to see

54:13

the working relationship between Billy

54:15

and her brother Finneas grow

54:18

deeper and deeper and deeper. On

54:20

this song in particular, you hear

54:23

what happens when musicians work together

54:25

for a very long time. They

54:28

know each other so well. They know

54:30

how to make the sense work with the

54:32

vocals, work with the vocals, work with the

54:34

sense. And it's a partnership that gets better

54:37

the longer they keep doing it. So

54:39

I just love it. I have played this

54:42

one song in the last three days, probably

54:44

25 times. Okay. It

54:47

levitates. It puts me in a trance.

54:49

Listeners, believe me when I say it,

54:51

Chee Hero. It's a great

54:53

song. Check it out. I'll dip into Billy's

54:56

dark waters. I like her little dark waters.

54:58

She does this thing where she makes this really

55:00

accessible pop, but it still

55:03

feels really dark and moody

55:05

and ethereal in this haunting, glorious

55:08

kind of way. All right, listeners,

55:10

what are you feeling or

55:12

not feeling this week? What's your

55:14

vibe? Check in with us at vibecheck

55:17

at stitcher.com. Vibecheck at

55:20

stitcher.com. You

55:27

said dynamic pop. This was a dynamic

55:29

episode. We

55:31

were turning. We were

55:33

pivoting. Let

55:36

me get these girls out of here.

55:39

Listeners, thank you for tuning into this

55:41

week's episode of VibeCheck. If you love

55:43

the show and want to support us,

55:45

please make sure to follow the show

55:47

on your favorite podcast listening platform, subscribe

55:49

on Apple podcast and leave a review.

55:51

And most importantly, tell a friend. Huge

55:53

thank you to our producers, Chantel Holder,

55:55

engineers, Rich Garcia, Brendan Burns,

55:58

and Marcus Holm for our theme music. and

56:00

sound design. Also special thanks

56:02

to our executive producers, Laura Richie

56:05

at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from

56:07

Agenda. That's my AI voice. Hey,

56:10

get my AI voice. It's creepy. Okay.

56:12

It's creepy. Chat, chat, GBC, Sam. Bad

56:14

vibes, didn't like it. Yeah. Didn't

56:17

say it. Anyway, listeners, as always,

56:19

we wanna hear from you, so don't forget

56:21

you can email us at vibechatstitcher.com. You

56:24

can keep in touch with us on Instagram,

56:26

on our new page, at vibech underscore pod,

56:28

and our Patreon, where for $5 a month, you

56:31

get direct access to our group

56:34

chat, and that link is patreon.com/vibechat.

56:37

Stay tuned for another episode next Wednesday.

56:39

Goodbye. Bye. Goodbye. Bye.

56:43

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

56:46

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

56:50

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

56:53

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

56:56

Bye. Bye. Bye. Home

57:02

isn't just a place, it's a state of mind,

57:04

like curling up in a comfy chair as you

57:07

watch the world go by. Good

57:10

afternoon. Which is why at Delta, our people

57:12

do our best to make you feel at

57:14

home long before you get there. Delta, keep

57:17

coming. There

57:19

are two things that are absolutely true. Grandma

57:22

loves me, and she would never say no

57:24

to McDonald. So treat yourself to a

57:26

Grandma McFlurry with your order today. It's

57:28

what Grandma would want. Pa-da-pa-pa-pa.

57:30

I participate in McDonald's

57:32

for a limited time.