0:01

Ladies, gentlemen, tortured poets.

0:07

Jesus. I

0:09

even knew it was coming and I'm still like,

0:11

oh, it's here. You are literally a tortured poet

0:13

this week. How does it feel, BB? Irritating. Because

0:17

words mean

0:19

things, I am

0:21

not a tortured poet. Neither

0:23

is Taylor Swift. She's also not a

0:25

poet. We're going to get

0:27

there. First and foremost, save it. I'm Sam

0:29

Sanders. I'm Saeed

0:31

Jones and you're listening to Vibe Check.

0:43

Wow. Listeners, have we got a

0:45

show for you this week? For

0:47

starters, our dear sister Zach is in Bali

0:50

with his man. Snaps

0:52

for that. Indonesia is such

0:54

a beautiful country. Bali is

0:56

a gorgeous island. Wow. I'm

0:59

excited to see the pictures. We'll hear

1:01

a little bit from Zach on his

1:03

travels in just a bit. But first

1:05

to set up this episode, two big

1:07

discussion topics this week. First,

1:10

going to talk about anti-war

1:12

protests, sweeping college campuses across

1:15

the nation. And we're going to

1:17

laser focus on the flashpoint in all of these

1:19

protests. It's going down at Columbia University.

1:21

I'm sure you've all seen by now. A

1:24

student protest was there, were shut down

1:26

last week by the NYPD with over

1:28

100 arrests. It

1:31

was a major. It brings up a

1:33

lot of questions about the power and purpose and

1:35

place of protests and what a

1:37

college campus is actually for. I'm

1:40

so ready for this chat. Then after that, I'm

1:42

going to talk to my favorite, maybe not tortured

1:44

poet about the tortured

1:46

poets department, Taylor Swift's latest album,

1:49

that has 31 songs. I

1:52

know. Get ready. You're not smiling. Pointed

1:54

silence on this end of the mic. But before

1:57

we get started, I'd like to thank

1:59

you for joining us today. Before we get

2:01

into that, let's just check in, catch the

2:03

vibes. Let's hear from Zach

2:05

first. He is joining us briefly from

2:07

Bali. Oh, so excited. Hello

2:10

ladies. I'm sending you this voice

2:13

note from the beaches of Bali. And

2:16

yes, that is water you hear behind me. Eat

2:19

it up. But

2:21

I hope you all are doing well. I miss you so

2:23

much. I can't believe I'm not on the show this week,

2:25

but I'm excited to, as always when I'm gone, be

2:28

a fan of the work that you all are about to do.

2:31

And I think I haven't been told what you're

2:33

talking about, but I'm going to assume it is

2:35

the Taylor Swift album, or

2:37

albums plural. And

2:40

that is good luck. And

2:43

Swifty's note that I'm not present for

2:45

this. So if you do come for

2:47

the show, you know, just don't at

2:49

me maybe. But I

2:51

can't wait to listen. And

2:53

I hope you guys are doing so well.

2:55

And I have to say, being on the

2:57

other side of the world and watching the

2:59

American news cycle is dizzying. And

3:02

you know, outside of the cultural stuff that's happening with

3:04

this Swift album, which I think is a good refuge

3:06

or maybe a reprieve for all of us, everything

3:09

happening outside of that with the White

3:11

House, the Middle East, students

3:13

just, you know, practicing their

3:15

constitutional rights protests, having an attack.

3:18

So depressing. And I

3:21

think about that every time I leave our country and

3:23

watch the news from the advantage of

3:25

other countries, it just never

3:27

looks great. And I hope it looks

3:29

great one day, but it's not going to be today. So good

3:31

luck. I miss you all. Enjoy the

3:33

show. Wow. Okay. So

3:37

first of all, you know, I was going to

3:39

initially just be like, I'm so happy. Our

3:41

sister Zach is out in Indonesia, such a

3:43

beautiful, but you know what? I

3:47

don't know if I'd like to. Right.

3:52

I mean, I will say from the photos

3:54

he's already posted. I know he's

3:56

just getting his life. It just makes me think

3:58

though, I haven't had a. Your vacation like

4:00

and abroad vacation in a while, the

4:03

other like I need us. it's time

4:05

and I'm now because I'm gonna working

4:07

on a book that also is very

4:09

much about travel as well. That's one

4:11

of the books big narratives I mean

4:13

that say that's really tricky were even

4:15

when I am thinking about travel I'm

4:17

also thinking about how I can essentially

4:19

worked worked into it. so I'm proud

4:22

of sex spouses. Really interesting. So Indonesia

4:24

is is a Muslim country of course

4:26

it's made up of light I think

4:28

hundred lot of mile and. A

4:30

lot of islands. Bali is the

4:32

one can do island so there

4:34

is a lot of like we're

4:36

visibility on the island of Bali.

4:38

I was there and twenty twelve

4:40

and saw some of the best

4:42

rats as the best Whitney Houston.

4:44

Drive. Performance has ever seen in my

4:47

life. It was nice and clean yes

4:49

this bounties queen said a beautiful like

4:51

navy blue sequin down and she had

4:53

the like skill that white rag Whitney

4:55

always had see why he became Whitney

4:57

Houston. It was in a run a

4:59

business of get a lot I hope

5:01

we get to see some drag shows

5:03

yeah that have fun for all of

5:05

us will save a service since important

5:07

about right you know of Last week

5:09

we had the grand finale of this

5:11

most recent season of Roof House Drag

5:13

Race to was the show. I.

5:15

Have a lot since like rises season

5:17

at of my shit rosters. Well. I

5:21

don't up while I was, I see them thread

5:23

it's I'd somehow heads up a few vacations ago

5:25

so I think I was. It's hard to catch

5:27

others and eleven it's hard to. cats have so

5:29

many and I don't want to watch the current

5:31

seasons without knowing the back story of a time

5:34

when I was with books you know the show

5:36

on, know the history and make them and knowing

5:38

the hysterectomy here. So I keep waiting for among

5:40

white and is really catch up but that might

5:42

not ever happen. I would say that used to

5:44

be more of a factor. was actually kind

5:46

of gets to my points know the seasons

5:49

increasingly do actually feel more disconnected so oh

5:51

god i think you would be okay because

5:53

at this point there are like contestants on

5:55

the show who grew up watching this like

5:58

they even still like russia who It's

6:00

crazy. Okay, it's been around

6:02

for a while. Yeah, so I guess

6:04

my vibe is, you know, I watched

6:06

the grand finale. I love really the

6:08

top three, Sofia, Nymphia Wind, Plain Jane.

6:10

I was definitely rooting for Nymphia or

6:12

Sofia. I'm very happy to see Nymphia

6:15

win. She's just a

6:17

true creative. I think

6:19

she could be in charge of like a fashion

6:21

house, like her stuff. Kind of like to the

6:23

point of Raja, I think like Raja's reputation is

6:26

that she's really like a style visionary. Nymphia

6:28

has that, so it was fun to see her win. But

6:30

I also feel like as

6:33

drag race has become more mainstream,

6:36

you know, now it's been paramount.

6:39

The budget is incredible, like the money

6:41

they get. Like at the finale, everybody

6:43

gets money. Like the Miss Congeniality gets

6:45

money. All the other contestants. Let me

6:47

go ahead and get on drag race.

6:49

Yeah, it's like... Be Miss Congeniality. Wow,

6:51

it's so different from the days of

6:53

it being like this little secret show

6:55

basically on logo for those of us.

6:57

I mean, when you watch, you know,

6:59

and it's this weird thing. I've just

7:01

been thinking like when it

7:03

started, I would say this queer show became

7:06

more mainstream. It then became

7:08

a gay show. And now

7:11

it doesn't even feel like centered in my life.

7:13

Like it used to feel like truly, like we

7:15

say like, oh, this is like the gay Super

7:17

Bowl. Now I'm just like, it's a thing that

7:19

they've literally today, they've already announced like the next

7:22

season, like also like it just begins to feel...

7:24

It keeps going. So this is

7:26

also the thing that kind of ties

7:28

into our conversation about Taylor Swift. Like

7:30

at what point does the abundance start

7:32

to affect the enjoyment? Yeah, and maybe

7:34

that's why I was thinking about it.

7:36

I still watch it. I

7:38

usually watch it during the regular seasons like

7:40

with my neighbors. But lately,

7:42

like I watched the finale at home and I

7:45

realized I was like fast-forwarding through sections, you know?

7:47

Oh, wow. I don't know. In the

7:49

finale. Yeah. Yeah.

7:53

So that's my vibe. Just kind of like, what does this mean? I'm

7:55

just going to answer some of those questions. But what's your vibe? My

7:58

vibe, you know, I'm really... The excited

8:00

that we have the job. Juxtaposition

8:02

of topics this week, but I feel like

8:04

the theme throughout observing the stories play out

8:07

the protests, the Columbia, and elsewhere. The reaction

8:09

to Taylor's new thirty one track album said

8:11

no one wants to have space for nuance

8:13

and some I buy this week is like

8:16

nuance is allowed. So in a way that

8:18

we talk about Palestine and protests and the

8:20

way that we talk about our favorite Popstars

8:22

albums, let's have some nuance. It's like with

8:24

both of these door them seen ever want

8:27

to scream from their size of the lawn

8:29

and I'm like. Is complicated.

8:31

Can we have a space and have

8:33

a place where we talk about the

8:35

complication? I don't think you do that

8:37

on Twitter or X and increasingly it's

8:40

like he can't do it on a

8:42

college campus. Some really just thinking about

8:44

this week and trying to find way

8:46

than my lies to facilitate conversations with

8:48

friends and loved ones that have nuance

8:50

about these really tricky things. So that's

8:52

it. Wears a new of my thing

8:54

about thread or acts. Bits.

8:57

Why are you there? They know do was

8:59

there. it's just poured like what do people

9:01

even doing know? That

9:03

they now have to push back. It

9:05

still is sometimes the best place to

9:07

go to get real time reaction to

9:10

like a book out of that. So

9:12

like to begin with, the Taylor stuff

9:14

isn't really see how the fandom was

9:16

reacting in real time and place to

9:18

see at sea levels anywhere else. I

9:20

guess it's become a cesspool, but sometimes

9:22

with breaking cultural events ah, there's no

9:24

other place to get that much. Instant

9:27

feedback of them excel so I stay.

9:29

Regret is that just think is my

9:31

like digital Town Square is Tic Toc

9:33

a suspect for those kind of like

9:35

the kind of real months but because

9:37

the algorithm is so strong on Tic

9:39

Toc I always try to be skeptical

9:41

about what of like I think this

9:43

is a good whereby as I still

9:45

feel like I can find folks that

9:47

would not be looking at gotta with

9:49

this funding topic in a mile the

9:51

me see that like I was trying

9:53

to see what was up with the

9:55

protests and sets. And I ended up

9:57

needy in sees of tweets from like.

10:00

The National Review Writers. And I

10:02

don't like those guys but I want

10:04

see what they're saying. In a sense

10:06

I feel kind of find their window

10:08

loot you for your sacrifices of the

10:10

says you have Some good news is

10:13

specially during several live shows this summer

10:15

but we've announced the first one it

10:17

will be in Los Angeles. We're really

10:19

excited we're going to get to kick

10:21

off the Fords Twenty Twenty Four season

10:23

on July fourteenth. Ticket packages are available

10:25

right now and single tickets go on

10:28

sale on May fourteenth. Say tune because

10:30

again we have other live. Shows coming

10:32

up. Very excited about that. I have

10:34

not been to the forward and person

10:36

but I've like seen pictures or and

10:38

footage and it is very your goals

10:40

so that will be fun. I'm really

10:42

ready for it. So last year when

10:44

we had a few live shows for

10:46

vibes at I'd miss those for some

10:48

family stuff so this will be my

10:50

first big life. So with the group

10:52

I'm super excited listeners com Cs and

10:54

I committees. I'm so excited because those

10:56

during the live shows like to your

10:58

points is usually the most current busier

11:00

that Sam's I can. I get to spend

11:02

in person together what went on vacation So

11:05

it's also just you're getting to see the

11:07

three of us also and enjoy like something

11:09

that's unique for us to tell them something

11:11

to be for So you're going to be

11:13

great. Just stay tuned for more announcements, more

11:15

Vip stuff, some secret behind the scenes at

11:18

some of the had known as well for

11:20

us going to happen outside of Weren't as

11:22

Can hoods and before we get into this

11:24

episode as at all of this real and

11:26

imagined calamity that we're both have the guts

11:28

of. We want to thank all of you

11:31

for sending. Us fan mouth and a

11:33

special shout out to those of you

11:35

who has subscribe to our page Me

11:38

on it is so fun! Y'all are

11:40

brilliant, smart serious. I loved seats and

11:42

here which all thinking about and again

11:45

listeners. If you want to join that

11:47

group chat you can find us at

11:49

patriarch.com/by of check but okay. I'll

11:52

forestall the inevitable long enough. Let's

11:54

get into a won a competition

11:56

I'm really excited valve and then

11:58

one that salmon really excited have

12:01

was out of that on both

12:03

I'm excited about. I'd like I

12:05

said, let's jump in salary. Iran.

12:15

Or first, we're going to talk about

12:17

the protests that we're seeing. especially at

12:19

Columbia University right now. But a sample

12:21

did. honey. This is happening on campuses

12:24

across the country. in the world on

12:26

Father's Day, as in Italy. Over the

12:28

weekend protest. Am I'm on their own?

12:30

Yeah, pissed. Anti War protests are spreading

12:32

across college campuses. And we're going to

12:35

talk about. That. M

12:37

and how what's happening. But also

12:39

I thought it was important to

12:41

kind of start this conversation with

12:44

updates about Gaza. It's yes, that's

12:46

up. My yeah, morally important thirty

12:49

Five thousand people. Have. Been

12:51

killed in Gaza since October. Most

12:53

of those people were children and

12:55

women from the A P Strikes

12:58

from The Idea on Sundays killed

13:00

twenty two people, including eighteen children

13:03

as the United States was on

13:05

track to approve billions of dollars

13:07

of additional military aid to Israel.

13:10

according to Andre Day Dominican As

13:12

United Nations quotes, the vast majority

13:14

of schools have been destroyed and

13:17

there was not a single university

13:19

standing. and Gaza. He says

13:21

it will take years to bring back

13:23

students to school. Every you talk about

13:25

that detail adjusted. Our just were yeah

13:28

but you know it's clear conditions are

13:30

dire and young people here and the

13:32

Us are fed up. I just sell

13:34

to start. What? You

13:36

make of like the reality that

13:38

we're seeing in Gaza, Us and

13:40

how it's beginning to manifest here

13:42

in the United States. Yeah, I

13:44

mean I think. That.

13:46

Americans in particular.

13:49

We. Are very good at focussing

13:51

on what makes protest the

13:53

right kind of protest, and

13:56

not very good at talking

13:58

about what these phone are

14:00

protesting over. Yeah, and that's

14:02

what we're seeing happen on

14:04

Monbiot and all other tend

14:06

to campuses and it's really

14:08

important. Thought about specifically the

14:10

issues at play: An Ivy

14:12

league, elite wealthy campus like

14:15

Columbia. The Students at Columbia.

14:17

They're not just protesting the

14:19

war. they're also protesting Columbia's

14:21

involvement in the war machine.

14:23

These major universities with big

14:25

endowments they white off, then

14:27

have investments tied to the

14:29

defense industry. Tied to weapons

14:31

companies and the students to san,

14:33

we don't just want the war

14:35

to stop. We. Want Columbia's hand out

14:38

of anything tied to it? We want

14:40

Yes as es, right? So it's important

14:42

to know that first. I think it's

14:44

important to know that the students have

14:46

an actual cause. That's. How to

14:48

make sense on paper? You know

14:50

we're paying to go here and

14:52

you'd use in our money to

14:54

fund that. No way, no way,

14:56

no way. And so we've lost

14:58

sight of that even watching the

15:00

spectacle of these protest be com

15:02

grandstanding opportunities for people on and

15:04

off campus. So that's my first

15:06

thing. Like what are they protesting

15:09

about the next thing I think

15:11

about as like if these kids

15:13

can protest on a college campus,

15:15

where else are they supposed to

15:17

do it. The point of a college

15:19

campus is to learn peaceful descent and by

15:21

all accounts even from the in my Pdt

15:23

they said the kids the students themselves have

15:26

been peaceful the entire time. My biggest question

15:28

is if not here where else right? Yeah

15:30

and to respond to that I mean one

15:32

something I think about this that of a

15:35

we can talk about the Nineteen Sixty Eight

15:37

protests at Columbia like there's there's a lot

15:39

yes but a historic history at some of

15:41

the it's descent aca how low corgi I

15:44

have every every category, Edwards I eat and

15:46

all of that. but also. Like more

15:48

broadly in terms of this culture,

15:50

when I hear of divestment, I

15:52

actually think there's a Nineteen nineties

15:55

episode of a Different World Which

15:57

to play services at it or

15:59

not, Black college home. in college

16:01

it aired and I did that at

16:03

least. Episode was titled a World of

16:05

Light and during that time it was

16:07

South African. Apartheid was the debate and

16:09

so there's a whole episodes about divestment

16:11

where students One of the characters gets

16:14

like a scholarship and she's really excited.

16:16

She needs the money and then she

16:18

finds out is connected to a company

16:20

that is funding the Apartheid in the

16:22

Psych. I've gotta give it up and

16:24

so it's It's really interesting. You're right

16:26

to see people try to act like

16:28

that. This isn't a part. Of what it

16:30

means to be a college students and and like. If

16:33

you've been to Columbia University, but even if

16:35

you have been on a college campus you'll

16:37

know what I'm talking about. These protests this

16:39

encampments is on the campus applaud his in

16:42

the middle of campus which it has say.

16:44

It. Is very easy for you to

16:46

walk around to go to your classes

16:49

to do your university business if you

16:51

don't want. To participate if something's

16:53

up in avoided the plot is very easy

16:55

to whore. That's that's why the Quad is

16:57

there. A I taught a Columbia for maybe

16:59

three or four years as an adjunct and

17:01

a number program at the Columbia Journalism School

17:03

and I was see that quad and walk

17:05

around the campus and I would be there

17:07

when they were doing orientation or this. Yeah,

17:09

I would have done. This. Is the

17:11

thing that I also find a

17:13

little annoying and press coverage of

17:15

these protests? A lot of media

17:17

outlets and try no distinction on

17:19

my students themselves and outside agitators.

17:21

The dry no distinction on stuff

17:23

that pops up on campus vs

17:25

off campus. yeah remember Columbia is

17:28

right in Manhattan. ah they call

17:30

it Morningside Heights. I call the

17:32

Harlem in a deck soon as

17:34

her off campus they be here

17:36

in New York for and those

17:38

distinctions are being drawn. Yeah. M

17:40

just to be cleared. More about the specificity

17:42

of that points when they close those gates

17:44

on Columbia as a half this week's it

17:46

is truly insulate. Think it in my these

17:48

are two very different groups or yes, protesters.

17:50

and it's really important to point out how

17:52

big of a deal it is to close

17:54

the gates of a campus like Columbia. As

17:56

long as I've been teaching their the Geese

17:58

are pretty much always open. I.

18:01

When they're closed it's a major

18:03

gas. So to that point we

18:05

wanted to kind of walk through

18:07

a bit of the timeline of

18:09

the last few days because as

18:11

Sam pointed out I mean a

18:13

hundred students being arrested is the

18:15

largest campus arrest in the university,

18:17

the streets since Nineteen Sixty Eight

18:19

since the last set of major

18:21

anti war protest and I want

18:23

to reiterate here when they present

18:25

of the school brought in in

18:27

my Pd even they said were

18:29

only responding to their call. We

18:31

see no threatening action here. We

18:33

see no violence and in the

18:35

arrest they were like these kids

18:37

are fire. Yeah, literally. Yeah, so

18:39

let let's walk through that. So

18:41

on Wednesday, April seventeenth at Four

18:43

Am Columbia Students for Justice in

18:45

Palestine. That's the kind of organized

18:47

group behind the encampments they posted

18:49

on Twitter or acts that they

18:51

had occupied the center of campus.

18:54

the Campus Greens and and I

18:56

were just talking about demanding quotes

18:58

divestment at an end to Colombia's

19:00

complicity in genocide. This timing

19:02

was not a coincidence. Everyone knew

19:04

that that same day Colombian President

19:06

Doctor Nimitz Seeks was going to

19:09

testify before Congress to and this

19:11

is the language of the committee:

19:13

Address questions about the schools response

19:16

to anti semitism. You've course will

19:18

recall that the President of Harvard

19:20

and you parents made similar appearances

19:23

before Congress back in December and

19:25

I. Didn't. Have well

19:27

for them into wealth of the

19:29

I had one from the Guardian

19:31

basically sums it up quotes the

19:33

Harvard and you pin president's walked

19:35

into a trap in Congress is

19:37

clear that Columbia University president somehow

19:39

like avoid the traps even while

19:41

standing in it which is impossible

19:43

because she thought this was from

19:45

the a piece that see to

19:47

focus her message on fighting anti

19:49

semitism rather than protecting free speech.

19:51

he was like I'm gonna I'm

19:53

going to out and out while

19:55

these Congress. Can we just

19:58

passed a note here? The same

20:00

Republican that organizes here is to

20:02

claim to be fighting anti semitism.

20:04

They supported Donald Trump for years,

20:06

who was in recent history the

20:08

most loved by anti semites in

20:11

the country. You. Member his comments

20:13

about the Unite the Right Rally you

20:15

know all of his word and statements

20:17

that dabbled along the lines of anti

20:19

semitism. If they really were about this

20:22

they would have uncommon out Trump for

20:24

real anti semitism. Take it even further.

20:26

Representative at least a Phonics is basically

20:28

likes the loudest and question or voice

20:31

yet in these hearings he's grilling people

20:33

and to be clear like it all

20:35

kind of comes out the lights. Do

20:37

you think saying from the river to

20:39

the sea is a call for genocides.

20:42

That's another debate that the two of

20:44

us are not going to go ends

20:46

but minds you. After the Twenty Twenty

20:48

Mass Shooting and Buffalo New York where

20:51

the shooter published a manifesto that was

20:53

clearly anti black and anti semitic at

20:55

least a Phonics echoed the Great Replacement

20:57

theory which is directed there's no getting

21:00

around the anti semitism money sad the

21:02

British Liotta P echo the Great replacement,

21:04

their excess and so to choose to

21:06

even take them seriously when they said

21:09

or have any serious the by anti

21:11

semitism. And it's. A trap like you're

21:13

saying yes as.columbia's president was pretty savvy

21:15

back in December by just not going

21:17

up. Stood there are busy but it's

21:19

interesting to see that like oh maybe

21:21

it's on a board. And then here's

21:23

what's crazy enough to see be students

21:25

start these tenth in these protests. David

21:27

her testimonies at the began the day

21:29

after she finishes her testimony see has

21:32

been arrested The days after the I

21:34

felt like that was the reaction to

21:36

Be Republicans and I wanted to highlight

21:38

what you pointed out earlier. Again, around

21:40

one hundred and eight people, mostly students.

21:42

Were arrested N N Y P

21:44

D Police Chief John Celts told

21:46

as a Student Journalists at Columbia

21:48

quotes, the students that were arrested

21:51

were peaceful, offered no resistance whatsoever,

21:53

and were saying what they wanted

21:55

to say in a peaceful manner.

21:57

Now both of us turned ensues

21:59

basically. The Eyeball A Mogi When

22:01

we let this because the kids

22:03

out the significance of the police

22:05

saying this in contrast to the

22:07

administration. Yes, I

22:09

think the biggest thing I see

22:12

here as someone who was taught

22:14

on a college campus taught at

22:16

Columbia before the level of escalation.

22:19

This. University did by bringing in

22:21

N Y P D Youtube for

22:23

race, the bonds, and the trust

22:25

a university campus has when you

22:27

bring in the city police, right?

22:29

It's really hard to overstate for

22:31

most of the students' lives on

22:33

my campus. They actually live pretty

22:36

harmonious leads with faculty staff and

22:38

campus police rights. And now you're

22:40

saying to these kids, many who

22:42

paid tens of thousands of dollars

22:44

a year, we're going to Arrest

22:46

you. Possibly. Give you a record

22:48

and maybe expel you. Which means then you have

22:50

no meal. plan. You. Have no

22:53

housing. You. Got to go. It feels

22:55

like a slap in the face to

22:57

these kids. I wonder why this President

22:59

did it and I think it was

23:01

a reaction to those Republicans on the

23:03

hill and to that testimony because. What's

23:06

your easily could have done to avoid

23:08

this than getting bigger. and bigger and

23:10

bigger. It's just like down the campus.

23:12

I totally understand the can't the same.

23:14

There's too many people here at this

23:16

point. We. Don't know who's a student

23:18

or not. We don't know who these folks

23:21

are. Students you can protest. Here's your area.

23:23

I way. But. We need to lie

23:25

down the campus. You're. Saying a better

23:27

more productive the area would have been like

23:29

okay this is getting a little much. We're

23:31

going to close the gates. If you want

23:33

to be on campus you need to be

23:36

able to use your stereo to campus Id

23:38

as yeah that would be your entry pay

23:40

to participate in this yes community debate Yes

23:42

and I think to not do that first.

23:45

Just causes a number of problems

23:47

because we saw what happened. Wanted

23:49

kids were arrested, they came back.

23:52

Yeah, Yeah. And just to follow

23:54

through on that point. as same as explained

23:56

in the day since the campus has gone

23:58

into a lockdown, but not the. The sale

24:00

push was on board at this point.

24:02

Rights are doing wrong. Method of events

24:04

Get it seems like if you're not

24:07

already in that encampment on buzzers, you

24:09

can even make it onto campus. Like

24:11

soccer, the ideals don't even work. All

24:13

classes are remote on April twenty first

24:15

what I believe was Sunday's a university

24:17

rabbi urged Jewish students to go home

24:19

due to quotes extreme anti semitism and

24:22

and are Keith's multiple journalist that I

24:24

trust including Lydia Poll brain who and

24:26

we can put this in our show

24:28

notes wrote a great piece. About what

24:30

see, observe because a lot people live

24:32

in New York based. That's that's it's.

24:34

right there if you want to go

24:36

observe what's happening Columbia use like. That's

24:38

not what I saw. She was like

24:40

she did not see what would amount

24:42

to anything, attempt to extreme anti semitism

24:45

and certainly not Nrt. I saw pictures

24:47

of people doing traditional dances. They were

24:49

whole mess. Muslim prayer was prayer. Passover

24:51

weekends of it does not look like

24:53

anarchy to me. Yeah, I keep thinking

24:55

about this. And I always

24:57

think about as when I'm on a college campus

24:59

around and people who were there to learn how

25:01

can I make their lived experience a teachable moment.

25:04

And and. That is a mandate

25:06

of the professors on my campus of

25:08

the administrators. You're supposed to say that

25:10

these kids and keep in mind they

25:12

are kids. They're very done. This

25:15

is where you come to learn how

25:17

to protest, to learn how to dissent.

25:19

How can I facilitate a space that

25:21

allows you to learn from this them

25:23

to learn how to productively disagree as

25:25

websites like. And I think that that

25:27

is where the university felt that students

25:29

there was a way to let the

25:32

student protests and keep learning how to

25:34

protest before you set it down. And

25:36

I feel like there are a lot

25:38

of adults who should know better that

25:40

of fame flames I think Republicans on

25:42

the Hill or fan in flames, there's.

25:44

A Columbia Business School professor who

25:47

is a self described Zionist side.

25:49

Ah, but I do with fanning

25:51

the flames. Yes, and it's a

25:53

moment's. For. The older folks

25:55

in the room. To. Stop and

25:58

say. How can we. Look

26:00

out for these young kids best interest

26:02

and how can we think about the

26:04

little darlings and no one's doing? Yeah.

26:07

I wanna add as well that

26:10

you know I mean part of

26:12

it is the decisions being made

26:14

by the leadership and I'll say

26:16

something about them in a moments.

26:18

But another reason I think students

26:21

there won't let go is that

26:23

in a very important aspect of

26:25

Colombia's unique legacy is that Edward

26:27

Saeed taught there and what's a

26:29

huge writings and his ideas about

26:31

Orientalism seems to so much of

26:34

our understanding of why, politics, philosophy

26:36

and resistance. And souls In

26:38

tribute to his legacy, Columbia

26:40

University established the Center for

26:43

Palestinian Studies, so. In

26:45

addition to what the administration is

26:47

doing, I think the students are

26:50

especially determined because they're like wait

26:52

a minute. This isn't just some

26:54

random universities. In many ways, this

26:57

is supposed to be the heart

26:59

of learning to have the new

27:01

wants, diverse conversations that Sam is

27:04

talking about if that makes sense

27:06

And months in as that contemporary

27:09

university presidents at schools across the

27:11

country are being hired for their

27:13

skills in fundraising More so. Than

27:16

their skills and the leading academic

27:18

communities. What? And this is the

27:20

thing that has happened over the

27:23

last several decades with the transformation

27:25

of the college campus vs colleges

27:27

like Columbia. Have become big

27:29

businesses. These endowments are run by

27:32

finance guys and they aren't just

27:34

there to teach their their to

27:36

be academic research institutions they're there

27:38

to have sports teams are a

27:40

them a bunch of money d

27:43

their businesses that I think have

27:45

gotten out of the business of

27:47

teaching kids and if the primary

27:49

mission. Of places like Columbia would

27:52

be the actually educate children above all

27:54

else. They will let these kids keep

27:56

protesting, get a what of and I

27:58

think we've lost that focus. I often

28:00

think a lot of parents it's in their kids was

28:02

will like Columbia have lost. The focus is well. They.

28:05

Don't want their kids in that they want

28:07

them at a fancy summer camp for four

28:09

years rights. And so it's also moment not

28:11

as to think about what the doesn't need

28:13

but like what is a university and the

28:15

classic sense. For yeah, what is

28:17

the fourth? It's not for endowments. It's

28:19

not for championship sports teams. It's not

28:21

for alumni network. It is to learn

28:23

how to learn And I think of

28:25

one about in this thing I'll be

28:28

dealt to least have lost that about.

28:30

Yeah, there's there's one more thing I

28:32

want to say to listeners. You know

28:34

pages are happening. I mean, right now

28:36

on campuses, it's not just Columbia, Yale

28:38

University, Mit, Emerson College, top universities N

28:40

Y U, Stanford just to name a

28:42

few. Part of the conversation that I

28:44

see about these protests is that both.

28:46

It's happening at fancy private schools? who

28:48

cares? And I agree. Listen, the New

28:51

York Times and particular loves to obsess

28:53

about the Ivy League that I think

28:55

there are some like as they really

28:57

are. you're fortunate, get out of really

28:59

unfortunate mountains for that's what I would

29:01

sauce and. People. To

29:04

dismiss like it's not that it's

29:06

not important, right? Likes? That's an

29:08

aspect of what's going on. But

29:10

I would say the way Republicans

29:12

operate is very consistent from one

29:14

issue to the next. Whatever happens

29:16

on these college campuses, it will

29:18

not end at these particular college

29:20

campuses. This will get to our

29:23

state universities, This will get to

29:25

our community colleges, and, well, it's

29:27

probably already happening there on a

29:29

smaller scales not being covered exactly.

29:31

I saw the same. Thing happened

29:33

on the Black Lives Matter movement snow

29:35

protest in Kansas. they just gonna you

29:37

know and so I guess what I

29:40

would say want to university president like

29:42

those The Columbia look at what you

29:44

did. You started despises now

29:46

spreading to all these other college

29:48

campuses. You have made the student

29:50

that your campus not respect to

29:52

or wanna work with you anymore

29:54

like a tackle the ah well

29:57

apathy as well. You've seen fantasy

29:59

come out in support the students

30:01

like you really mess it up.

30:03

And I wanna point out before

30:05

we closed surf this had been

30:07

roiling for months. In November, the

30:09

scored the slates from sustained pressure

30:11

from of right wing donor groups

30:14

and conservative politicians. Columbia suspended the

30:16

charters of student groups Jewish Voice

30:18

for Peace and Students for Justice

30:20

in Palestine because they held quote

30:22

unsanctioned demonstrates is calling for a

30:24

ceasefire So it's not like the

30:26

kids just woke up last week

30:28

and said we're rad. They have

30:31

been taking issue with the way they've been

30:33

silenced by the university for months. I've gotta

30:35

say I'm on these kids side. I stand

30:37

with them. I think they're doing what they

30:40

need to do and Mrs what you go

30:42

to college to learn my hypothetical and Lms

30:44

myself. It's like if you the presence of

30:46

a Colombia or in why you are a

30:49

Stanford's how do you deal with it and

30:51

manage the safety of these kids that are

30:53

there as well as their space to learn

30:55

and protest. I do wonder if you were

30:58

Columbia President, say how would you do. It.

31:00

Yeah and and listeners as well

31:03

let us know. Yeah I would

31:05

say. I think what

31:07

his answer girl and it's very

31:09

clear that probably in late October,

31:11

early November at the latest. if

31:14

you are university leader and I

31:16

mean this it have happened on

31:18

every campus across the country so

31:20

publish It should have been a

31:23

series of Town Halls roundtable discussions.

31:25

I know people often or like

31:27

out but I'm like know if

31:30

early on youtube create the conditions

31:32

for people and there were so

31:34

many sides and this conversations. To

31:36

feals heard. I think

31:38

ideally you can defuse the

31:41

couple of tensions that months

31:43

later lead to this guy.

31:45

Yeah, from hopefully. I. Think

31:47

you have to as university administrators be

31:49

in front of the students and so

31:51

the to listening from daily or with

31:53

them and also. What? concessions can

31:55

you give that make folks will hurt and

31:57

valued without giving them everything that they want

32:00

And that has to

32:02

factor in a certain kind of sequencing

32:05

of how you do things and what

32:07

is your strategy long term to navigate

32:09

this for months. Yeah, by the way,

32:11

this university president has basically sacrificed, as

32:13

we talked about, the students, all of

32:15

the trust, Representative Elise Stefanik as of

32:18

Sunday afternoon, is still calling for her

32:20

to be kicked out. So you

32:23

can either be there with your students and

32:25

go down swinging alongside them, or you can

32:27

totally abandon them and still lose your job.

32:30

And I will say this, if you've

32:32

got a campus like Columbia with key card

32:35

access and gates that lock, lock

32:37

the campus down for just a student body

32:39

and a faculty before you come and arrest

32:41

them. That's my biggest

32:43

thing, like the sequencing of

32:45

events. They just went about it

32:47

and it went wrong. You know how I

32:50

feel about calling the cops. I feel that that

32:52

is a life or death decision. And

32:54

so this absolutely did not warrant the cops

32:56

being called. And I believe the NYPD would

32:58

agree based on their own comment. Even NYPD

33:00

was like, girl, what you doing? What are

33:02

you doing? Why are we here? Well, we

33:04

will leave it there for now. This is

33:06

very much a developing story. But again, I

33:08

do think this is important and it's worth

33:10

us paying attention to. Also, check out the

33:12

Columbia Spectator. The journalism program there has an

33:14

excellent newspaper. So you can hear from the

33:17

students themselves in terms of how they're reporting

33:19

on what's going on in their community. And

33:21

I would definitely check that out. And

33:23

as a radio professional, I got a shout out

33:25

the Columbia University radio station. They've been doing live

33:28

coverage of events there. WKCR, you can check a

33:30

live stream on their website. They usually play jazz,

33:32

but they have been covering. And it's been good.

33:34

Check it out. I'm into it. I know we're

33:36

done. I know we're done, but I got to

33:38

say it. These kids are babies.

33:41

I mean, like they're 18, you're

33:43

19, you're figuring out protests. Yeah,

33:46

there's so much energy in it.

33:48

There's so much zest in it.

33:51

The adults around them should be doing

33:53

all they can to help guide them through

33:55

this process. Yes. And I've just seen a

33:57

bunch of grandstandings. That's what I hate. What

34:00

I will say is they're young people. They

34:02

are students and I absolutely agree with you.

34:04

They're learning. That's why we call them academic

34:06

communities. What's happening on campus, not just in

34:08

the classroom, is also a part of their

34:10

education. And so to see

34:12

people like that business professor, oh, shy

34:15

David, I just... Yeah, people literally telling

34:18

folks, record me, record me, record me.

34:20

Well, but beyond that, to see like

34:22

grown ass adults say, I feel unsafe

34:24

because students are going through what I

34:26

would say is an integral part of

34:28

the human learning process. Yeah, to me,

34:31

it's not that they're babies. I'm like that

34:33

this is education. Isn't this what we're here

34:35

for? It just reveals a lot about like

34:37

you got to the point that like, are

34:40

these universities or not? Are

34:42

these places of learning or not? And

34:44

I think for many people, they're not,

34:46

unfortunately. Anywho, now we're really done.

34:48

Chantel, thank you. All right, now we're done. We

34:50

will be right back to talk about, you

34:53

know. All

35:06

right, we are back. Said is

35:08

making the sign of the cross. I'm

35:11

meditating. I'm at peace. Her

35:14

mediocrity cannot touch me. Her mediocrity cannot

35:16

touch me. I didn't say we're video.

35:20

All right, we're gonna talk about Taylor

35:22

Swift. Get ready. All my tortured

35:24

poets. I don't need to do

35:26

too much scene setting here because y'all know you haven't

35:28

been living under a rock. Last

35:30

week, Taylor Swift released a new album.

35:32

There are multiple versions of this album,

35:35

several vinyl editions, and the quote

35:37

anthology edition has 31 songs. I

35:42

listened to all of them more than once.

35:44

I have a review, but I want to

35:46

start by talking about one review in particular

35:48

that really stuck with me. This

35:50

review was published with the byline P.A.I.A.S.T. Staff.

35:54

This magazine had their review of

35:56

Taylor's album with no name on

35:58

it, and the magazine says they

36:00

didn't reveal the name of the author

36:02

of the review because of fears of

36:04

threats from Taylor's fans.

36:08

Potential threats because this review dares

36:10

to say the album isn't good.

36:13

Let's start there. Saeed, what does it say

36:15

about the state of critical discourse when you

36:17

see a thing like that happen? It's

36:20

very concerning. I mean, just in the last

36:22

few months, I mean, what I felt like

36:25

was one of the last dependable vestiges of

36:27

music criticism, Pitchfork, it's basically

36:29

curtains there. Yeah, they've been gutted.

36:31

And so what remains is

36:35

music criticism and I would just say like

36:37

coverage having to function almost solely as PR.

36:41

Like it's all positive. It's all basically

36:43

just taking the talking points from the

36:45

artists, from the celebrities and their reps.

36:48

That's really concerning. But also if

36:51

they feel they had to publish

36:53

this review anonymously, it

36:55

also says something about toxicity. It says

36:57

something about the fan base that

37:00

they feared, and I would

37:02

say perhaps legitimately, for

37:04

what the safety of

37:06

the writer. Like that's really wild. We

37:09

all read reviews of pop culture or

37:11

books or movies, whatever that, you know,

37:13

pisses us off and we roll our

37:15

eyes, we text our friends like this

37:18

is crap. How dare they say, you

37:20

know, like that's a very human feeling

37:22

when you love something and someone's panning

37:24

it. But for it to get

37:27

to this point, that's really concerning. Consider we have

37:29

a billionaire pop star. I

37:31

think she'll be okay. Well, this

37:33

is the thing about reviews

37:36

and bad reviews and

37:38

what's fair to say about an artist like

37:40

Taylor and her work. I

37:42

have been thinking a lot since this album came

37:44

out and this kind of discourse. It's like, how

37:47

do we expect our biggest stars to be

37:49

treated? Biggest stars like

37:52

Taylor, like Beyonce too. There's

37:54

a certain part of the fandom with

37:56

which it seems that like liking the music is

37:58

not enough. to defend these people

38:01

against any negative coverage that they

38:03

see as an attack. But

38:06

what's crazy is that these fandoms

38:08

that have the most desire to

38:11

protect these celebrities, these

38:13

are the celebrities who need the least protection. They're

38:15

the most powerful. They're the biggest. Something

38:18

about the parasocial nature of these relationships

38:20

with these stars over the last 15

38:23

years, I think the social media era, has

38:26

turned fans into

38:28

soldiers. And

38:30

what they're fighting for is

38:32

what they think is the life of these stars. But

38:35

the stars are fine. Yeah, I mean, another

38:37

fandom that I would say very much figures

38:39

into the people being afraid

38:41

to criticize them is called the

38:43

BTS Army. I think

38:46

you're absolutely...it's not just these two

38:48

celebrities. I mean, a

38:50

lot of K-pop fandoms are known

38:52

for being like...they organize. They get information. And

38:56

it's almost like they organize bot attacks,

38:59

essentially, if you know, you deadpan

39:01

their faves. It's really

39:03

concerning because also it's

39:05

not just that the biggest stars,

39:08

and I would say Beyoncé, Taylor

39:10

Swift, Drake, for example, can certainly

39:12

survive and withstand any criticism that's

39:14

lodged with them. It's also

39:17

like it would be better for the

39:19

art and the music. Like, when we

39:21

are able to have really rich, nuanced

39:23

conversations about the people at the top,

39:26

everyone else in the industry learns

39:28

from it, thinks about it, makes

39:31

choices, informed by it. But

39:33

if the conversation is just PR or

39:35

nothing, then there's less of an opportunity

39:38

to grow for everyone. So

39:40

it's not just that like Taylor is kind of being

39:42

denied an opportunity, I think, for really

39:45

thoughtful, critical feedback. So

39:48

are all the people who are also musicians who look to

39:50

Taylor. I love that. With that,

39:52

I want to take just a little bit of a detour

39:54

and offer our own review of this torture poets department. And

39:56

listen, I did take notes. I have a whole page of

39:58

notes. I have been playing with it. I ended all

40:00

weekend and my first inkling of a

40:03

big statement about this album is somewhere

40:06

in these 31 songs are

40:08

maybe 10 that make a decent Taylor album.

40:11

But there is no need for 31 songs. The

40:13

only way you get away with making 31

40:15

songs, not interludes,

40:18

they're all songs, is

40:20

if a lot of them sound very different. If

40:23

the pacing is such where one's slow, one's fast,

40:25

one feels this way, one feels that way. But

40:28

if you have an album that's going to be one note, it

40:30

can't be too long. It can't

40:32

be too long. And I keep

40:34

comparing this to Beyonce's Cowboy

40:37

Carter, which I've already said on this

40:39

show is not perfect, but it's varied

40:41

enough to keep my attention. It's

40:43

varied. You're taking us from bodyguard

40:46

to a song like Spaghetti to

40:48

like Sweet Honey Buckethead. And so

40:50

much of these Taylor songs, they're

40:52

a similar tempo, a

40:54

similar chord structure, a similar vibe.

40:56

And there were many times this

40:58

weekend playing the album, I

41:01

lost track of one track from the other. They

41:03

all bled into each other. I don't like that. And

41:06

then it takes me to my second part of my review,

41:08

Y31 songs. We

41:11

cannot look at this Taylor album critically

41:13

without looking at it commercially and what

41:15

it's trying to do. Taylor

41:17

Swift is one of the biggest

41:20

selling artists of all time and

41:22

she loves breaking records. One record

41:24

she's never broken has been the

41:26

largest number of one-week sales in

41:28

America. That

41:30

title belongs to Adele, who sold 3 million

41:32

copies of an album a few years back

41:34

in a week. It was wild. Taylor's maybe

41:37

sold 1.5 before. And

41:39

everything she's done with this album seems

41:41

like a play to get those numbers

41:43

up for first week sales and downloads.

41:45

We already know that the more tracks

41:48

on your album, the more each album

41:50

play counts towards streams and sales. We

41:53

also know that Taylor announced 4 editions of

41:55

vinyl for this record. 4? Yeah, 4. All

42:00

these folks pre-order those, thinking

42:02

that the only way to get the bonus tracks

42:04

was through the vinyl. But then,

42:06

two hours after she puts out the first

42:08

version of the album on Spotify, she adds

42:11

the 15 bonus tracks on Spotify

42:13

with this longer version of the album.

42:15

So she's double dipping. She now knows

42:17

that she'll have people that have paid

42:19

for the vinyl that will also stream

42:21

the bonus tracks like crazy online. It's

42:23

all a gaming of the system. And

42:26

so for me, it's like, Taylor,

42:29

has your quest for commercial

42:31

domination begun to affect your art?

42:34

And that's what I want to discuss. But

42:37

you can't have that conversation because Swifties just

42:39

gets so mad about it. Right. I

42:41

would say, obviously, I won't

42:44

even call it a review. My response to

42:46

what I've heard of this album is much

42:48

more limited, in part because I value my

42:50

time and myself. So

42:53

I knew better. I was like, I'm not going to

42:55

listen to a 31 track album that I know isn't

42:57

for me. Why do that? But what

43:00

I did was I listened to the

43:02

five most listened to

43:04

tracks. Which ones? Because, well, consistently, what I've heard

43:06

is that people have basically been like, 10, 10,

43:08

10. They're like, 10 songs

43:10

are great. 10 songs maybe

43:12

could have been revised and ever ending.

43:15

10 songs I would leave. And so

43:17

I assumed that Fortnite, the title track,

43:19

Florida, Down Bad, and what

43:21

is it, So Long London, were

43:24

at least the most

43:26

popular songs. And I guess, yeah, I would

43:28

echo what you said. In

43:30

terms of the music, at

43:34

her best, and the best of all five

43:36

of the songs that I listened to, is

43:38

the first verse of Fortnite. And

43:40

I mean that sonically, and I mean

43:42

that lyrically. I was like, I enjoyed

43:44

the music video, and we can actually

43:46

talk about that. Beautiful gowns, literally. Beautiful

43:48

gowns. To read this point. But

43:51

at her best on this album, it

43:54

just made me want to listen

43:56

to other people, including Florence Welch,

43:58

who's on the album. Hearing

44:00

them together is embarrassing. I don't

44:02

know why she did that. If

44:04

you were Taylor Swift, why

44:07

would you pair yourself with Florence Welch, who does

44:09

everything you do better in terms of singing and

44:11

songwriting? And I want to talk about that in

44:14

a second. But at her best, often I was

44:16

just like, oh, this just makes me want to

44:18

listen to some of my favorite Lana Del Rey

44:20

songs. And I think that's pretty

44:22

damning. When I listen to other artists

44:25

I love, when I'm listening to their

44:27

best songs, I'm not thinking about anyone

44:29

else. It feels singular, truly unique. And

44:31

this all felt at its

44:33

best like someone else, or even worse, it

44:36

felt like everything was an AI version of

44:38

another Taylor song. And this is

44:40

the thing that I really, and it feels like you can't say

44:42

it, but I'm gonna say it, Taylor

44:44

is an excellent wordsmith. We'll all

44:46

admit that. And some of the

44:48

lyrics she's written before have been

44:50

spectacular, life-affirming lyrics. A lot

44:52

of the lyrics on this album

44:55

are freaking corny. Bloated. On one

44:57

of the tracks she sings, truth

45:00

dare, spin bottles. You know how

45:02

to ball, I know Aristotle. Brand

45:05

new, full throttle. Touch me while

45:07

your bros play grand theft auto.

45:11

It's true, swear, scouts

45:13

honor. There's no

45:15

way you can make me take these lyrics

45:17

seriously. On another song she sings, I

45:20

love your hostile takeovers, encounters closer

45:22

and closer, all your indecent exposures.

45:25

How dare you say that's it? I'll

45:27

build you a fort on some planet

45:29

where they can all understand it. How

45:32

dare you think it's romantic? It's just,

45:36

I don't understand how

45:39

I'm supposed to take lyrics

45:41

this bad seriously, knowing how

45:44

good Taylor lyrics can be. I

45:46

don't get it. This album fails in

45:49

Every way. Because One, to me, if

45:51

I see poets, which I would never.

45:54

Didn't it better be poetry? If I

45:56

see poet in the title of an

45:58

album, then I'm, yeah. Mommy

46:00

Boy. And since yeah because poetry is

46:02

about the emphasis on word choice and

46:04

image so I would pay even more

46:06

attention to lyrics and the song writing

46:09

than usual. It's bad on this album.

46:11

Something else. I don't listen to these

46:13

five truth and my senses that the

46:15

fires that I was listening to were

46:17

like Jack and enough produced shots. Some

46:19

music as bad like the since I

46:21

was like this it's soothing sound like

46:23

an old i say it's overproduced is

46:25

it sounded like basic keyboard. You.

46:28

Know like just like our and among on

46:30

like this is a thing like his production

46:32

is full of glitter and sparkles. Put it

46:34

covers up. A basic.

46:36

Forecourts such as he gets repetitive and

46:38

born very quickly and he doesn't do

46:40

baselines it's I think and I really

46:43

felt us in a video. critically. Those

46:45

moments electroshock therapy and I was like

46:47

you know specific, someone who didn't even

46:49

watch the movie. Girl interrupted to just

46:51

watched clips on to talk and is

46:53

kind of drawing from that and what

46:55

she saw the cover of Sylvia Plath

46:57

the Bell Jar was like with Go

47:00

With This It's really frustrating to see

47:02

her do this kind of white womanhood

47:04

trauma caused place that is so Hello.

47:06

When we're living in a moment that

47:09

even if you do just want to

47:11

focus on right womanhood we know was

47:13

actually attacking them. It's an attack on

47:16

personhood and reproductive rights like they're there

47:18

is. actually it's like a way in

47:20

which women in this country are being

47:23

unique, leaks a sales and we did

47:25

talk about how scary that is and

47:27

how that really impacts people, but instead

47:30

she likes doing like an Sexton drag,

47:32

like what what's going on? Well, something

47:34

about Taylor that I can never. Quite

47:37

understand is the performance of

47:39

victimhood that she's done her

47:41

entire career. the victim of

47:43

time, a victim of cam,

47:45

victim of every man she's

47:47

ever dated. a death allowed.

47:50

But I do think the only reason. That.

47:52

He was with can keep doing this for as

47:54

long as he's done. It is because he's a

47:56

certain type of white blonde woman. yeah I think

47:58

any other kind of artist. We'd say

48:01

collectively find a new stick rags and

48:03

I compare this to be on Say

48:05

who has experienced a lot of hardship

48:07

and her professional career in her life,

48:09

with her dad, with her husband, with

48:11

her sister and after all of those

48:13

things the work the comes out of

48:15

it is resilience and defiant and groundbreaking

48:17

and some new ways it takes a

48:19

somewhere else it takes the summer knew

48:22

what it takes her somewhere new. Lemonade

48:24

took us somewhere new you know like

48:26

all of the work that beyond Say

48:28

does seems to have come forward momentum.

48:30

And so much of the way Taylor

48:33

does these victim he will be or

48:35

X consistently says no forward movement or

48:37

growth and I'm getting annoyed by that.

48:39

and I also want to point out

48:41

here it's I'll hit everything she does

48:43

I think lover, I think Reputation and

48:45

I think I to his nine or

48:47

three great albums. Great. Albums

48:49

and so what I want is this

48:52

kind of a return to form And

48:54

I want an artist who was as

48:56

savviest Taylor Swift's to understand that every

48:58

big adoration of you need to take

49:00

a summer do. As well, a lot. What?

49:03

I want is for people to just

49:05

to listen to Sorenson the Machine to

49:07

the better writer. She's a better singer

49:10

and and she's often writing about the

49:12

same kind of subjects. But in particular

49:14

Florence was smart enough to. and bodies

49:16

missiles, religious iconography. It's and a way

49:18

that kind of elevates and acts grab

49:20

a toss of it. Doesn't feel like

49:23

a silly listen to Stevie Nicks. Listen

49:25

to Maggie Rodgers. Listen to basically every

49:27

one. That killer I feel like is

49:29

really good at like co opting elephants.

49:31

These people are collaborators. They're. Getting paid,

49:33

you know, so they're not victims. But

49:36

again, like Lana Del Rey, it was

49:38

just it just made me want to

49:40

listen to these other people's music. Oh,

49:42

I see, let's have found the sweet

49:45

part of like writing dramatic love songs,

49:47

your melodramatic love songs events. But the

49:49

writing and the vocals kind of rise

49:51

to the occasion and Taylor just to

49:54

literally doesn't have the range. And.

49:56

Start mixing metaphors. One of the

49:58

songs has her care. The dying

50:00

five different ways. The one that

50:02

listens like girl stop there's one

50:04

song cards who was afraid of

50:06

a low me and at with

50:08

the chorus reads so I leap

50:10

from the gallows and I levitate

50:12

down your street. crash the party

50:14

like a record scratch as I

50:16

scream who's afraid of the load

50:18

Me too much going on here

50:20

and also let's be real Taylor.

50:23

Everyone's afraid to you and

50:25

your fans. More powerful woman

50:27

in pop out yet. Listeners

50:32

we gotta wrap Let us know via your

50:34

mother's outed as girls give us out Letter

50:36

grade for the album site for Reckless. Oh,

50:39

a letter grade for the Studio A

50:41

Book Report on Sylvia Plath. It's a

50:43

C minus. That's what I can hear.

50:45

This album Okay. I'm

50:48

gonna give ah. Please go

50:50

and redo. Didn't understand the assignments. As for

50:52

no more than one hour. An

50:56

hour or with that recommendations I'm at

50:58

the break. Don't go anywhere. Will be

51:00

right back. Okay

51:15

we are back and of course before

51:17

we in the so and and and

51:19

honestly I have to get my vibe

51:22

right after talking about Taylor Swift. Media

51:24

not survive as you saw find something

51:26

of thing for me of Solar Remember

51:29

you are tortured. No

51:37

money for their tortured were just

51:39

merely inconvenience of but failed. What's

51:41

your recommendation for this week? I

51:45

want to recommend a Netflix show

51:48

that is truly unlike anything I've

51:50

ever seen. A favour scene and

51:52

I'll say that Beagley This show

51:54

on Netflix from the Uk called

51:57

Baby Reindeer. Oh I have

51:59

heard talk. I don't know how to

52:01

call the trailer for it. It's where the woman, like

52:03

a witch, what's going on here with this lady? It

52:05

is a stalker series, but it's put

52:07

on its head because the person being stalked

52:09

is a man and the stalker is a

52:11

woman. I don't wanna say

52:13

too much more besides that, but

52:16

the stuff this show gets into,

52:18

it just goes so much deeper than any

52:20

kind of stalker, TV show or film I've

52:22

seen before because it gets into the psyche

52:24

of the person being stalked and

52:26

you realize throughout this show, he kinda

52:28

wants it. It is a

52:31

wild ride. It

52:33

goes into places you have

52:35

never seen a show like this go before and

52:38

it makes you ask some really good questions

52:40

about yourself and what you want. I

52:43

binge this show in maybe two days. I

52:45

highly recommend it, but a warning,

52:47

it is heavy. It is

52:49

violent. I was about to say, it sounds pretty dark.

52:51

There's sexual violence in this show, so if that's not

52:54

your jam, don't do it, but if you can stomach

52:56

it, it is phenomenal. Baby

52:58

reindeer. It's also based on

53:00

a true story. The guy who is the lead

53:02

of this thing experienced this kind of stalker in

53:04

real life, made a play about it and then

53:06

made a TV show. Oh, I

53:08

do like when plays are turned into TV

53:10

shows. Oh yeah. Good source material. My recommendation

53:13

for the week is a poem, of course.

53:15

It comes from the book, The Willys, and

53:18

I've gotta say, this is from a dear friend, a

53:20

very close friend of mine, Adam Faulkner, so I'm just

53:22

gonna be very clear. Okay,

53:25

I love it. But I love this

53:27

poem, I love Adam. The title

53:29

of this poem is, Let's

53:31

Get One Thing Halfway Straight.

53:34

And I should say, it's a prose poem, so

53:37

it's a poem written as a paragraph. Let's

53:39

get one thing halfway straight. I

53:43

have spent my entire life trying

53:45

on costumes because no one told

53:47

me I couldn't. And

53:49

the stakes were never that high, which

53:51

I've come to think is mostly what

53:53

makes a white writer a white

53:55

writer. The last time

53:57

anyone referred to me by that name

54:00

exactly never, but that's

54:02

also the point. I am

54:04

a queer poet, child of an addict,

54:07

masquerading white boy. My

54:09

best friend died, and it was sad,

54:12

and these are the stories I water

54:14

into bloom. Camp

54:16

Cassler, Tess Cheat, Choirboy,

54:19

Cypher, Rapper, Scratch, Golfer,

54:21

Honor Roll, Pothead, Point

54:23

Guard, and Whitman says,

54:25

very well, you contain

54:27

multitudes. And he

54:29

was a white writer too. The

54:32

not so funny thing about spending

54:34

a life proving you aren't something

54:36

is that any story that isn't

54:38

the story is survival.

54:41

Or more like a brick

54:43

for laying until the wall

54:45

is high enough that you're safe inside

54:48

and you wake up and say, whoops,

54:51

whose house is this? Who

54:54

did I hurt to get here? And

54:57

is it too late to call for

55:00

help? Again

55:02

that poem is, let's get one

55:05

thing halfway straight by Adam Faulkner.

55:07

The book is titled The Willys.

55:10

And I will just say, you find out

55:12

in the book that at one

55:14

point his father said, queer people give

55:16

him the willies. They give him the

55:18

spooks. So, you know, very interesting. But

55:21

you know, I was just, my spirit was called

55:23

to it, but now it's obviously because of Taylor

55:25

Swift. This

55:28

contemplate, because I do feel something

55:31

that I think people with privilege

55:33

and real power reckon with in a way

55:36

that maybe they're not always so aware of

55:38

is that they feel the

55:40

absence of struggle. They feel

55:42

the absence of what I would call

55:44

authenticity. And so one of the things

55:47

you do is I think you kind

55:49

of try to find, well, what's my

55:51

tragedy? Like what's my struggle? And

55:53

part of that does kind of sometimes manifest

55:55

as a kind of cosplaying, you know? And

55:57

I think we see that not just

55:59

with Taylor. but in a lot of

56:01

dynamics that I think Taylor parallels.

56:03

I'll take that. Oh, and listen, let me

56:05

be like, Beyonce can do it too. Whenever

56:07

she's like nine to five working too hard,

56:09

it's like, girl. Right, yes. What? Yes,

56:12

her commenting on minimum wage and ya ya. Come

56:14

on now. Okay, this is not a first person

56:16

song, I guess. Yeah. Anywho,

56:19

listeners, what's keeping your vibe right? If it's Taylor's

56:21

new album, let us know. I actually do want

56:23

to know. Actually don't. Just think about the album.

56:25

I do. Okay. In

56:28

another life, I would be a

56:30

full-time music critic. I love the shit.

56:32

I love the discourse, the dialogue around it. So I'm

56:35

happy to chat with listeners about it. Tell me your

56:37

favorite tracks. I do think Fortnite slaps. It does. Anywho,

56:40

enough Taylor. Yeah, I'm with Zach on this. I'm like,

56:42

that is between y'all and Sam. Eee! Eee!

56:45

Eee! Eee! Eee!

56:47

Eee! Eee! Eee!

56:51

Eee! Of course, thank you for tuning in to

56:53

this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you

56:55

love the show and want to support us,

56:57

please make sure to follow us on your

56:59

favorite podcast listening platform, subscribe on Apple Podcasts,

57:01

and leave a review, and most importantly,

57:03

tell a friend or two. Don't

57:05

you worry, folks. We took out all her

57:08

teeth. Who is afraid of little old me?

57:11

I was tame. I was gentle till the circus life made

57:13

me mean. What's going on? I'm just, I have to get

57:15

this out of my system before we get into credit. This

57:17

is a long ass episode. Boy, if you don't read the

57:19

credit. I'm just saying. We

57:21

need better lyrics. We deserve better lyrics.

57:23

All right, huge thank you to our

57:26

producer, Chantel Holder, engineer Rich Garcia, and

57:28

Marcus Holm for our theme music and

57:30

sound design. Also special thanks to our

57:32

executive producers, Nora Richie at Stitcher and

57:34

Brandon Sharp from Agenda. Listeners,

57:36

we want to hear from you.

57:38

Don't forget, email us, vibecheckatstitcher.com. Keep

57:40

in touch on Instagram on our new

57:42

page, at vibecheck underscore pod,

57:44

and our Patreon, where for five bucks

57:47

a month, you get direct access to

57:49

the group chat, patreon.com/vibecheck.

57:51

All right, till

57:53

next time. Bye.

58:03

Thank you.