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to you by Vive Healthcare. Roses

1:01

are red, violets are blue. Today

1:05

is a special episode for you.

1:07

Hello, I'm Sam Sanders and a

1:10

poet. I'm

1:13

Saeed Jones and I'm being

1:15

tested. And

1:18

I'm Zach Stafford and you're listening to Vibe Check,

1:20

National Poetry Month edition. Yes,

1:31

yes. That's

1:34

right. April is National Poetry Month. Obviously,

1:37

this podcast, Vibe Check officially is a fan

1:39

of poetry, which I love and adore. For

1:43

a while now, Sam has been like, we should do an all

1:45

poetry episode. Yes, I've had a gun to Saeed's head for a

1:47

few months now. I was like, no. I like, he put that

1:49

gun to my head and I was like, Michael Jackson, just like,

1:51

put the gun down. Let's just

1:53

dance. Let's just dance. But

1:57

I finally got to do it. And

2:00

he was like, oh, I have a friend

2:02

I can call. And we're like, who's your

2:04

friend? And he's like, oh, the national poet

2:07

laureate. Well, just naturally. I got

2:09

a deep inch. You know what I mean? But

2:15

my friend Ada Lamone is the

2:17

US poet laureate, which is to say, if

2:19

you're not familiar, this is a role selected

2:21

by the US Library of Congress. I think

2:23

the terms are usually two years. Sometimes they're

2:26

like renewals. But it's

2:28

this person who's appointed to be an

2:30

advocate for poetry and to engage communities

2:32

all across the country. And Ada Lamone

2:35

has been doing this since 2022. I'm

2:38

also just a fan of her work and

2:40

her vibe. She's very calm

2:43

but mischievous, as you will hear in

2:45

our conversation. And it's been

2:47

a real joy to have her as both as poet

2:49

laureate, but now as a friend of the podcast to

2:51

talk about how we can

2:54

kind of recalibrate our relationship to poetry.

2:56

And how to enter the world of

2:58

poetry. I think a lot of people,

3:00

myself included, our first introductions

3:02

to poetry are very rote and

3:05

didactic and awkward. Yes. Ada

3:07

in this chat has a lot of

3:09

good guidance on how to just appreciate

3:11

and like poetry. Yes. Yeah. So

3:13

what you're saying, Sam, is healing. We're healing

3:15

today from some of our passion elements of

3:18

poetry. Yes. Yes.

3:21

Sister Kathleen, I've never forgotten. Memorize

3:25

on poetry. I

3:27

hated it. Well, but of course, before we get

3:30

into the show, we always check in. Sisters, how

3:32

are we doing? Well,

3:34

this week, I'm feeling like an

3:36

elder. Sam, I'm like you. I'm

3:38

feeling older. Don't you, Sam. I'm

3:40

like, ooh. You're drinking in

3:42

here right now. To be clear, Sam started when we

3:44

logged into the Zoom. The first thing I saw was

3:47

Sam being like, say, look. And he was like holding

3:49

up the insurance. It's my post-run dream. Do you have

3:51

some insurance, too? No, I don't have any insurance. Or

3:53

some Celsius. Are you on that stuff with kids? That's

3:55

not. That's not. That is not for me. Celsius is

3:57

really everything to me. But that's a whole other

3:59

conversation. Why I'm feeling so old is

4:01

on Friday. I Went

4:04

to a nightclub for the first time in years.

4:06

Oh, wow me and Craig Filippa

4:08

Carti's birthday He got a table

4:11

ran into lots of people at the

4:13

club and let me tell you I used to be

4:15

a club kid if you know Me well, like I

4:17

at 18 sort of sneaking into

4:19

clubs in Chicago. I was really when you

4:21

were journalist, right? Wars

4:24

journalist I was like my very first job was I

4:26

was an intern on a documentary series that followed drag

4:28

queens And so I think you can go in the

4:30

camera and I would walk into the club And that's

4:32

why I learned is that if you had a job

4:34

at the club They let you into the club without

4:36

showing an ID. I now do

4:38

not want a job at the club The

4:40

club is too loud. There's too much like

4:42

taking shots There are young people who are

4:44

singing songs that are older than them. That's

4:46

really disorienting for me There's Gen Z kids

4:48

that like that. He's Nicole song love. Yes

4:51

Really? Oh Anyway, it's

4:53

I'm feeling I'm feeling my age lately and

4:55

I definitely am feeling my age because missy

4:58

Elliott announced her tour Thanks her first headlining.

5:01

So I was at a SoulCycle class I think

5:03

last weekend they start playing one two step with

5:05

her in Sierra and the SoulCycle instructor was like

5:08

I hope I'm not the only old person in here that

5:10

knows every words the song and I must fell off my

5:12

bike Oh person that came out the other day and I

5:17

2003 so yeah girl 20 plus years

5:19

girl. We are aging our music is

5:21

aging and we are now vintage so Yeah,

5:24

you get really thrown. I listened

5:27

to missy Elliott's album under construction

5:29

Oh good For the first

5:31

time in a long time Recently and I

5:33

was thrown because I forgot that it came

5:35

out like right after 9-11 and also a

5:38

Leah had just like a Leah died Like

5:40

just before yeah. Yeah a few months before

5:42

so it's really jarring when yeah these songs,

5:44

you know I mean missy Elliott that sound

5:46

it's just I just think it's a vivid

5:48

part of like black life in particular It's

5:51

it's Asia's listen timeless, but on the intro,

5:53

I mean she's directly Referencing.

5:55

Yeah, Aliyah and 9-11 you're

5:58

like, oh It's

6:00

been 20 years. Oh, God.

6:02

Anyway, that's my vibe. Feeling old, but

6:04

missing a lee, I guess. Yeah. Mood.

6:08

You know, mood. Sam, how are you doing? What's your

6:10

vibe? I have two little vibe check-ins. So yesterday was

6:12

the eclipse. We're taping this on Tuesday. And I was

6:14

out walking Wesley during the eclipse, and I saw all

6:17

these Angelenos out and about. And

6:19

my whole thought was just like, you know, people,

6:21

you can go outside and

6:23

look up in the sky and be nice

6:25

to strangers every day. Don't

6:28

let it just be a quill. Jesus

6:30

Christ. I'm just saying. It was so

6:33

interesting. Everyone was like,

6:35

oh, we're out in nature and talking to people.

6:38

The sun is there every day. The moon is there

6:40

every day. Get outside. That's my first

6:42

vibe. Second vibe. Oh, my God.

6:44

And I want y'all's help with this because I can't interpret dreams.

6:46

I had the weirdest dream last night. Can I tell you about

6:48

it? Yes, please. I had the

6:50

weirdest dream. So y'all know that

6:52

I like Vegas. I don't gamble, but I go for

6:54

the shows. I go to People Watch. I go to

6:56

Eat the Food. I love Vegas. I will drive there

6:58

in a heartbeat. Just tell me when. But

7:01

I had this dream that I had gone to Vegas and

7:04

I parked my car in some garage

7:06

underground and I couldn't find my

7:08

car. And then this

7:10

really attractive man was like, I'll help you find the

7:12

right elevator to get to your car. And

7:15

he leaves me around Vegas for like 40

7:17

minutes and I cannot find my car. And

7:19

the whole time he's like showing off trying to impress me.

7:21

And I'm like, what's going on here? I

7:23

never get to my car. I get really frustrated.

7:25

And then before I know it, this other man

7:27

is like, I'll help you find your car. He

7:30

cannot find it. He's leading me here. They're

7:32

everywhere. And before you know it, we end

7:35

up waiting for his car and his two

7:37

children. And he's talking to me about

7:39

the custody battle with his kids.

7:41

And then I still don't have my car. And

7:43

I'm like, I have to go find my car. And

7:46

then I keep looking for my car. I keep in

7:48

the wrong elevator. And then I woke up and

7:51

I was really angry. And I

7:53

Have no idea what this means. I Have no idea.

8:00

I woke up this really angry. Let's.

8:02

Just go ahead break the stream down so

8:05

cars symbolize independence and freedom. He began playing.

8:07

I like to drive to a place I

8:09

love to. You know there's an active you

8:11

been with yourself and gloom Where we love

8:14

is really aren't you. However, when a man

8:16

gets involved, you have the ceiling in which

8:18

you don't have that independence or that.that kind

8:20

of individuality, lot more and that it becomes

8:23

all about them on that even there's like

8:25

a fear that sounds like subconsciously said even

8:27

like finding a man with children who may

8:30

be able to create more independence or that

8:32

stability. In his own my for you are

8:34

you know since the family would also

8:36

take something away from youth where you

8:38

lose something you know her suit of

8:40

being with a man and wouldn't be

8:42

of the get home so that's my

8:44

head. Oh my reading of your dream

8:46

is without a doubt. don't be naive

8:48

said the Bundesliga. suspicious but the too

8:50

much time on grinding. Around

8:53

here for went on the highways and

8:55

byways and now with the the all

8:57

up in your miro pathway girl video

8:59

ha ha different man taking the left

9:01

take you right. You can get out

9:04

of the park cigarettes one thousand

9:06

how it wasn't sex, need to

9:08

text on bed? is the. First,

9:11

I am a dream if I recall correctly

9:13

to the first guy in the dream. Gave.

9:16

A lot of Clay from Love

9:18

is blind. In new to this

9:21

I bet he did a bad

9:23

escape alive or vibe resulted in

9:25

this. Help himself on any Bible

9:27

with this with that discuss about

9:29

the up from his dream. Etti

9:33

who's they'd for? deserve at. My

9:36

vibe is that Abigail might have noticed that like

9:38

I came in, like carrying books into the room.

9:40

There there are books. I need to come up

9:43

with the system because for this chapter of the

9:45

book I'm working on I am tired. I might

9:47

be twelve books and for this one shot Will

9:49

was. This is just like never. Never

9:52

really happened and where I'm kind of

9:54

doing this level of research some deep

9:56

in the archives and I guess it's.

9:59

I see. The doubt I'm the first

10:01

person. This is a realization. Proceed.

10:03

This is not a realization for

10:05

the world's I think many other

10:08

people know this but something of

10:10

learning about history and culture. If

10:12

you want to hide something from

10:14

American culture. I'm convinced. just put

10:16

it in a book. Some for

10:18

the with saw him kind of

10:20

disappear from the collective kind of

10:22

memory because I'm just stunned. At

10:25

the things I'm reading and you know, like

10:28

for example, right now I've been like really

10:30

honing in on the Mccarthy era and the

10:32

Mccarthy Hearings and like this is all documented

10:34

out many I've written about it and I'm

10:36

just it is. it's it's it's an exciting

10:39

ceiling. I think when you're doing research and

10:41

you have one of those like you know

10:43

more or I didn't know or wait a

10:45

minute disconnect like that's why we do the

10:47

work and that's what I'm trying to bring

10:49

to my writing. But also I guess what

10:52

I'm trying to say is and I wonder

10:54

if y'all have felt this way we talk

10:56

about for example, Langston Hughes before and the

10:58

way like to sexuality was. Suppressed even bought.

11:01

Like his biographer, I found an article

11:03

in like Nineteen Ninety One and The

11:05

Los Angeles Times where his, like official

11:07

biographer refers to Langston Hughes as a

11:09

sexual which we know was untrue when

11:11

and up. And I think when I

11:13

say untrue, it's like maybe I've documentation

11:16

of license as to eyes So. He.

11:18

Was having sex with somebody and was not having

11:20

sex with women. I don't know. I just always

11:22

feel like. When. I'm in the

11:24

archives and I discovered something. quote quote

11:26

discover It feels like I'm retrieving something

11:29

that since has been stolen, but that's

11:31

my sides. It's like this is very

11:33

emotional. Like why didn't I know about

11:35

this Said nine know about this who

11:37

kept us from us? That's nuts and

11:40

think. It's like what are

11:42

the spaces pre or post social

11:44

media. That. Were given that kind

11:46

of inside outside of books? Was it ever

11:49

outside of that ran with ever other? Yeah,

11:51

Yeah, No, that's my question. By it's not

11:53

like. The. History Channel twenty years

11:55

ago was doing that stuff either. You

11:58

know they were handed him. Down. He

12:00

added say Maya only contribution to this

12:02

little the i still similar feelings about

12:04

Archive says you're talking about but I

12:06

always kind of rationalize it as. If

12:09

I ever find information about historical figures that

12:11

share community with me that I didn't have

12:13

before, I have a grieving process of realizing

12:15

that you know my own body may not

12:17

be book that in history may not be

12:19

seen as valuable in terms of the historical

12:22

landscape and that's a really shocking thing. Casino

12:24

lot of people who don't look like us

12:26

get open books and see their story. The

12:28

see things that connect directly to them over

12:30

time. Soon we find our the have to

12:32

uncover it in the archives. It is affirms

12:34

that every air of self and maybe and

12:36

weirdly you know it's like the next solar.

12:39

Eclipse I think that will see with the

12:41

can hope this. What to tell? do whatever

12:43

is like twenty forty five which is no

12:45

one from now and I think we start

12:47

to get more crop mortality. You're also like

12:50

wait so how will I be remembered being

12:52

in control? Yeah out what? Have one room

12:54

and I think there's a larger thing that

12:56

happens with. Big. Figures in History

12:58

to can be Black. Figures in History All

13:01

kinds. Yeah Big A D Sexualized. You.

13:03

Know like that the team was a hope.

13:06

He was right home. went Nc

13:08

politicized as were, and like his

13:10

sexuality was stripped from him. There's

13:13

something about the way history American

13:15

history remembers. Black people have no.

13:18

We. Can't see them as good if we

13:20

also see them as sexual and. I.

13:22

Would say over the hypothalamus. Dlc any

13:24

sexuality is a race from three bucks

13:26

unless it's just about procreation as even

13:28

lingers in a credible box sets. The

13:30

Founding Fathers by Thomas Foster Care Malik

13:33

ten years ago in it breaks on

13:35

all the founding fathers and they had

13:37

very complicated Six rothys of them are

13:39

on river but all like non normative

13:41

in in how we conceptualize them in

13:43

the past three Links. Sex is a

13:45

race in history. Why in the kind

13:47

of why is that is we? Yeah,

13:49

we haven't. that were pure. Maybe I

13:51

know, I'm I've been very. Vegetarian and

13:53

like connecting a lot of dots, but

13:55

thinking about our poetry conversation with a

13:57

that which I think so many people's.

14:00

If you feel you have a

14:02

distance to poetry my sense for

14:04

the average American listeners that distances

14:06

created because if your relationship to

14:08

poacher when you are being educated.

14:10

right? So this is kind of some

14:13

laughs. When I was in school, for

14:15

example, I thought Links in his voter

14:17

was boring. I felt totally disconnected that

14:19

because it was how he was being

14:21

taught in a very stripped away ways

14:23

of because I'm just interested. Whether it's

14:25

about poetry or history, how can we

14:27

return to these histories in terms of

14:29

how they were presented to us with

14:31

whatever hangups, erasers, sensors and like? what

14:33

can we salvage retrieve to kind of

14:35

change the way we think about? You

14:38

know these events and people are it

14:40

before we get. Into the episode today. We

14:42

want to thank all of you who sent us

14:44

fan mouth and reach out to us on social

14:46

media. We absolutely love hearing from you. Keep on

14:48

coming at Five! Checked at such a.com and don't

14:51

forget of course can leave us will review where

14:53

you're listening and of course check out our patriarch

14:55

has been really fun. Sad when people in the

14:57

group chat with that a lot of our questions

14:59

today from Asia in fact from our picture and

15:02

group chat south Don't forget to subscribe lot of

15:04

the page on and help me decide for my

15:06

dream. The Io. Sore as. For

15:09

now live our lives up with York offices

15:11

with a though. I

15:22

haven't got to see you in sight of

15:24

couple of years on as. Your

15:28

voices are heard, data on or or

15:30

a better the road or is it

15:32

erupts. You know I'm I'm hoping to

15:34

use this conversation to to demystify poetry

15:36

to ground it. I think you know?

15:39

Certainly, we'll talk more about your worked

15:41

as Poet Laureate. I'm I'm sure this

15:43

is a lot of the work you're

15:45

engaged ten to start. Let's start with

15:47

you as a student of did you

15:50

have Aids I call it at. ces

15:52

as it momentum for poetry you know

15:54

as a student in particular were you

15:56

felt something kind of in the direction

15:58

of your life changed because of something

16:00

you read. Yeah, I mean I

16:02

think there was a few of them. I

16:04

was very lucky to grow up in

16:07

a town that had this

16:09

really great bookstore that opened across the street

16:11

from the apartment I lived in. Oh,

16:14

okay, where was this? It's called Reader's Books,

16:16

it's still there. Okay. In Sonoma,

16:18

California. And I

16:20

walked across the street and asked for a job and

16:22

I said, I will never be late. I

16:24

live right there. That's a good pitch, that's a

16:27

good pitch. And

16:29

I was able to spend a

16:31

lot of time with all of the books.

16:34

And my favorite thing to do was to

16:36

pick poetry off the shelf and

16:39

read a few poems, put them back, peruse

16:41

at my leisure. And I

16:43

feel like as much as I loved, I

16:46

had some wonderful teachers and definitely

16:48

had some experiences with poetry inside

16:50

the classroom, I actually think it

16:52

wasn't until I was sort of

16:54

allowed to really dive

16:57

in on my own. And

16:59

follow my own instincts and permission

17:02

to put down a book that

17:04

wasn't suiting me or wasn't helping me or didn't

17:06

in any way speak

17:09

to my own experience. And

17:12

that was something that I didn't have in school, right?

17:14

It felt like, oh, we are working on this poem,

17:16

this is the poem we're reading. And

17:18

that was the kind of freedom I think I needed to

17:22

really get interested in not

17:25

just poetry, the

17:27

art form itself, but also

17:29

the amount of different kinds of

17:31

writers that were writing and the amount of

17:33

different types of poems there were. And

17:37

that was where everything shifted for me. Yeah,

17:40

it's funny, because I hadn't quite

17:43

connected the dots in the way you

17:45

just explained. But, and actually I had

17:47

pretty good experiences as a college student

17:49

and even in high school with poetry,

17:51

no poetry trauma. But

17:55

in college, there was a time period where I spent a

17:57

lot of time by myself and I would just go to

17:59

the library. I literally be like, this is

18:01

the Anne Sexton day or the Lucille Clifton

18:04

day. And I would just sit down

18:06

cross-legged in like one book at a time.

18:08

And yeah, can you say more

18:10

about that? So it sounds like classroom is

18:12

fine, obviously important for a lot of us

18:14

for a lot of reasons, but the independence,

18:16

and you said the right to

18:18

say, I'm done with this book or this isn't working. Why

18:21

is that so important? You know, I think one

18:23

of the reasons is that I

18:25

think of poetry very much like music.

18:28

There's a lot of difference of course, but

18:32

you don't listen to one song. And

18:34

if you don't like it, decide you hate music. Good

18:37

point. And

18:39

yet. But people often

18:43

read one poem or have to, you

18:46

know, elucidate a poem in school

18:50

and they decide that's it. And

18:53

so I think for me, just because of

18:55

my personality and who I am, I think

18:57

there's a lot of, I need freedom, I

18:59

need permission to play. And so

19:01

I could pick up a book and go, oh,

19:03

I really like this poem. Oh, I don't like the

19:06

next poem. And it's the same author, interesting. And

19:09

just keep thinking, what do I like? What am I

19:11

drawn to? What are the lines that

19:13

I love? And I think that

19:15

was really important for me to see it that

19:17

just because you could like poetry and not

19:19

like every single poem that was ever written.

19:21

Of course. And, you

19:24

know, not liking every single poem that was ever

19:26

written didn't mean that you were

19:28

never gonna read another poem. And

19:30

so I think that it allowed me

19:32

to figure out my own stylistic tendencies,

19:36

my own obsessions,

19:39

and the things that really ignited my own

19:41

passion for not just poetry, but for

19:43

a way of life. That's so helpful. And

19:45

gosh, I frankly hated so much of the

19:47

poetry. I was taught in class, you know,

19:50

I just like, it's not, you know, so

19:52

much of that's just like not for me,

19:54

but it's like if you are reading widely

19:57

enough that you're able to, I'm

19:59

thinking like, line by line, like

20:01

literally just amassing enough lines

20:03

of poetry or individual poems

20:06

that your love is

20:08

greater than the, you know, Wordsworth

20:10

poems that you just don't like.

20:12

Yeah. Yeah, and to allow

20:15

yourself that kind of, to let

20:17

a poem find you, I think that was also very

20:19

important for me was that, you know,

20:21

there are poets that I deeply disliked

20:24

when I was in graduate school

20:26

or undergraduate even, and I

20:28

would think I will never get this poet. I don't

20:30

know, you know, what they're trying to do. And

20:33

then, you know, in my 40s, suddenly I was

20:35

like, Oh, I

20:38

really like this. I get it. I get

20:40

it. You know, I'm like, Oh, okay. They're

20:43

doing something. They're kind of cooking. Yeah, this

20:45

is really interesting. You know,

20:47

and I had to have a little more patience and

20:50

I had to have a little more, honestly, you know,

20:52

knowledge under my belt before. Right. And

20:55

life experience. Yeah, and life experience. And so that was the

20:57

other thing was that no one knows

20:59

where you are in your life when they hand you a book. And

21:01

so it's hard to kind of grasp and

21:04

hold on to something that you want

21:06

to love, but it

21:08

may feel off putting for numerous reasons.

21:10

And one of the reasons could just

21:12

be timing. Yeah. Oh,

21:14

that's such a good point. You know, I mean, like

21:16

to go back to the music analogy, how many times

21:19

have you loved a song so much and

21:21

then you go back to it a couple of years later and go, I

21:23

mean, it's still left. Why did

21:25

I? Yeah. Yeah. You're

21:27

like, what was I thinking? Yeah. I

21:30

even realized what the song was about. Yeah. That's

21:32

such a good point. Well, so another

21:34

angle in this kind of demystification effort

21:36

is I get the

21:39

sense that people also feel that poets,

21:41

I don't know where they think we

21:43

live. I think they, we live on the sides of

21:45

mountains or like, we're just like in the woods, maybe

21:47

next to a volcano. And wherever Tilda Swinton is, I

21:49

think that, you know, like that kind of like, I

21:51

don't know, y'all are just out there and

21:53

then books happen at some point, you know,

21:55

where I think poets kind of exist in

21:58

the American, at least. cultural

22:00

imagination as pretty abstract. So I was

22:02

wondering, you mentioned your life at, you

22:04

know, in the bookstore in California Yeah,

22:06

but you were also in New York

22:08

City working at Conde Nast at some

22:10

point. Yeah for 12 years Yeah, yeah. So can

22:12

you talk about that time of year? Because I've always

22:14

known you as you know, Ada, my gal pal in Kentucky

22:18

How did that switch come about? Yeah,

22:20

you know, I lived in New York for quite some

22:23

time I moved there for graduate school to go to

22:25

NYU and quickly

22:27

realized I needed a way of making

22:29

an income So

22:32

I actually had a temp job at

22:35

GQ and That

22:37

was one of my first jobs in New York City

22:40

and from there ended up to

22:42

many different full-time positions Throughout many

22:44

different magazines including Martha

22:46

Stewart living brides modern

22:48

brides elegant bride many

22:51

different brides and And

22:53

then ended my time there as

22:55

the creative services director for travel knees your

22:57

magazine And you know, it was

22:59

a time where I was putting out Numerous

23:02

books. I think that my third book sharks and

23:04

rivers came out in 2010 And

23:07

that was that was the year that I ended up quitting

23:10

those jobs. Okay, I think that might be

23:12

right around the time I first met you. Yeah, and

23:15

so it was

23:17

you know for me a very interesting time

23:19

because Like you were talking

23:21

about the at least the American

23:24

perception of where poets exist And

23:26

I do think there's a level in which they don't

23:28

feel like we're real, right? We're Grocery

23:32

shopping. Yeah poets. They're

23:34

just like us And

23:38

so I felt like it was also

23:40

something I kind of I had a little bit

23:42

of a bifurcated life where I you know In

23:44

the evenings I was doing poetry readings and going

23:47

to poetry readings and writing poems and reading Yeah,

23:49

and during the day sort of submerging

23:51

that part of myself Deep

23:54

into the bottom of my shoes while I wrote

23:56

copy and I had I loved it. I

23:58

actually really had a great job if you know

24:00

and he was enough money to get by

24:02

in New York which is very difficult to

24:04

do in any job. but I definitely felt

24:06

like my life was completely divided and so

24:08

in two thousand and ten I decided that

24:10

I was gonna take the rest to see

24:12

what it was like to write full time

24:15

as I know you have mans Italian yeah

24:17

immediately as I did not save enough money

24:19

for this crazy. It's for for. Whatever.

24:22

A dozen. Of

24:25

them for is what I did was ended

24:27

up yes writing but what I ended up

24:29

doing was of course freelancing for all the

24:31

magazines I had worked for grier for him

24:33

but that move so I moved to California.

24:36

I was there for six months and then

24:38

and southern love while I was already in

24:40

love but I was brought to Kentucky play

24:42

by man. Salvia, Four hours

24:45

later, forces he asserts his family

24:47

there's another horse for reasonable force

24:49

of will soak. You know. One

24:51

thing I think about is one

24:53

of the very few things the

24:55

Us government has gotten right in

24:57

decades of his for Eurosport Loria.

25:00

Project you've been serving since two

25:03

thousand Twenty Two before. that's pretty

25:05

case. Smith: Joyce Harjo One, Philippe

25:07

Herrera Us you know I wanted

25:10

to ask like have as the

25:12

reality of this job. Sync

25:14

up with what you thought it would be like

25:17

to be the Us Poet Laureate. Yeah,

25:19

that's a great question because it's

25:21

such a historical. Position.

25:24

Holding so much weight and legacy. Like.

25:27

And in Gwendolyn. Brooks. Kinda

25:29

somebody very intimidating were a

25:31

superior and he meaningless. I

25:33

think about her every time I'm in

25:35

the Labour of Congress office that is

25:37

dedicated to the Poet Laureate and and

25:39

I think this is work when when

25:41

for held office hours. And. I

25:44

just told that my heart in a way to say that

25:46

this is where. You. Know Elizabeth Bishop

25:48

wrote a poem looking at the capitol dome.

25:51

Is ours. You know, read the. poem

25:53

looking at lady freedom like i have

25:56

this is i can see these things

25:58

energy and being a pet Part of

26:00

that legacy is such a really

26:03

beautiful and overwhelming task in so

26:05

many ways. I think for me

26:08

the thing that has sort of surprised me perhaps

26:10

is that as an artist, and

26:13

I know you know this so well being one

26:15

of my beloved poets, is that

26:18

our job is to perceive, is to look, is

26:20

to notice. And when

26:23

the gaze turns on us, we

26:26

usually put a poem in front of it or

26:28

a book in front of it, right? We're

26:31

like, I am promoting this book. I

26:33

am reading you this poem. And

26:37

as the poet laureate, you don't

26:39

have the book in front of you. You're

26:41

not promoting your book. It's not

26:43

about your poems. You know, it is, but

26:46

it isn't. It becomes how are you as

26:48

a human being, an embodied

26:50

person, going to

26:52

amplify the power of poetry?

26:55

What do you want to do? And

26:57

it's a very interesting thing because I think you

26:59

do feel sort of stripped down

27:01

because we're so used to the protection of

27:04

the work itself, the poem itself, the

27:06

thing that we would do anything to

27:09

make and create and devote

27:11

ourselves to. And then suddenly it's

27:13

like, oh, how do you want to talk about poetry

27:15

itself? And that's been the

27:17

interesting, kind of

27:19

wonderful because it's taught me a lot about

27:23

my own feelings about poetry. Because

27:26

I am someone who writes privately. I

27:29

read privately. I think about all of these

27:31

things of making art as a very sort

27:33

of safe and sacred thing I do for

27:35

myself. And then here

27:37

is a position that's like, hey, how do you

27:39

want to talk about this? And

27:42

that's been really eye-opening.

27:44

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I

27:46

believe it. And even if the position wasn't

27:48

poetry, I think any role

27:50

that not just invites but

27:53

in fact insists upon you

27:55

engaging the entire country would

27:57

be transformative. Is there something?

28:00

It could just be like an

28:02

experience or an idea that you've

28:04

come to understand based on

28:07

your work in the last two years. Yeah.

28:09

I think that there's a couple of

28:11

things. One is that I do have

28:13

recognized, and I've always known this, but

28:15

this solidified it for me, is that

28:17

I am a private person and that

28:19

I need to create a

28:21

sort of self-protection and

28:24

self-preservation in order to

28:26

make sure that I keep writing and

28:28

doing the work because, as you know,

28:30

most of us that write, we are

28:33

literally writing to save ourselves. Yep. And

28:36

if I am not doing it, I am not well.

28:39

And so I think that actually advocating for

28:41

my own well-being in the role has taken

28:43

up some time which I didn't expect. And

28:46

it's been actually really affirming

28:49

because I have now doubled down on

28:51

boundaries and the things that I believe

28:53

in and the way that I want

28:55

other artists to feel the permission to

28:58

protect themselves and to protect their own

29:00

time. And then the other thing

29:02

that really has surprised me and keeps coming up again and

29:04

again is that I think

29:06

actually there are more people out

29:08

there that are doing the work of

29:10

poetry, that love poetry, that are writing poetry

29:13

all around the country. And I feel like

29:16

when you first get the job, there's a

29:18

level in which I will bring poetry

29:20

to the people. Right. And

29:22

in reality... I will sprinkle poetry upon

29:24

these unknowing, you know, yeah. Yes,

29:26

exactly. And then reality, you

29:28

get there and they're like, let me tell you the things that

29:30

we're doing in our community. Let me tell

29:33

you about our literacy program through poetry. Let

29:35

me tell you about our, you know, poetry

29:37

in the city park. Let me tell you

29:39

about... And there are more

29:41

good people doing the

29:43

amazing work in grassroots

29:45

organizations to bring

29:48

poetry to everyone that

29:50

I have left places much more inspired and

29:52

fueled up about the art

29:54

form itself and the people behind it than

29:57

I ever expected. And that to

29:59

me has been just... such a surprise and delight.

30:02

And also a rethinking because I do

30:04

think there's a level in which we think, oh, if

30:06

poetry fails or this, or if it's in the

30:09

New York Times, it's this, you know, but there

30:11

are a lot of places that poetry is and

30:13

it's surprising. And I think, for

30:15

me, it's been really affirming. I

30:18

love that. I love that. Well, I also

30:20

want to, you know, in the spirit to

30:22

point out that you kicked off April, which

30:24

is National Poetry Month by publishing a wonderful

30:27

anthology, You Are Here, Poetry in the Natural

30:29

World. I know you well enough to know, and

30:31

I was telling Sam and Zach, I was like, listen, it

30:33

ain't a poem if an animal or nature,

30:37

you know, even I love the poem, like you're in

30:39

a mechanic shop and there's a pit bull. You

30:42

know, the pit bull becomes such an important part

30:45

of the poem. Yes, we love her. We love

30:47

her. What a fierce poem. But

30:49

I was wondering, you know, can you talk

30:51

about specifically this anthology? Because it's also about

30:53

the national parks, which is really cool, too.

30:56

Yeah, I was really trying to figure out

30:58

the best way to come up with a

31:00

signature project. And for those listeners who don't

31:02

know, as the poet laureate, you are

31:04

asked to do a signature project. I'd love for

31:06

you to do one. You don't have to do

31:08

it. But if you

31:10

have met the incredible Librarian of Congress, Dr.

31:12

Carla Hayden, she is

31:14

an inspiration and a mentor, and she

31:17

wants to do things as much as she can to bring

31:20

in communities all over to have

31:23

access to reading, to books,

31:25

to the library itself. And

31:27

so she's definitely like, I hope you do a

31:29

project. And I wanted

31:31

to do something that brought together poetry and nature.

31:34

And I had lots of different ideas,

31:36

as you know, I'm enthusiastic about possibilities.

31:40

And I was like, Oh, we

31:42

could build a bridge over the Rio Grande made

31:44

of foam. Okay, work. I

31:52

said, Oh, we could, I could

31:54

fly a plane. And

31:57

I would drop poems on Native

31:59

seed packets. to re-seed deforested

32:01

lands. I had lots of these...

32:03

This is why you're my girl! This is why you're my girl!

32:07

Ayda's like, either we are changing the landscape or

32:09

we're changing the goddamn coast. I was like, let's

32:11

do this. You should get on it. You want

32:13

to change your project? I will bring you a

32:16

change of your project. But

32:18

then of course I was like, how do I open

32:20

it up and include as many people as I can? And

32:23

so we have these two prongs of

32:25

this project called You Are Here! Poetry

32:28

in the Natural World and one part

32:30

is this anthology which is 50 original

32:33

contemporary poems all speaking back

32:35

to the natural world at this urgent

32:37

moment on our planet. And

32:40

then the second part of it is

32:42

that there are going to be poetry

32:44

installations in seven different national

32:46

parks around the country. And

32:48

that's in partnership with the Poetry Society of

32:50

America. And one of the

32:52

best things about that is we've joined

32:55

the National Park Service with the Poetry

32:57

Society of America and that project will

32:59

continue and be ongoing after my laureateship.

33:02

Okay. Oh, okay, Legacy. I love that.

33:04

That's beautiful. And then also, I mean,

33:06

it's transformative as you say, it will

33:08

continue on beyond your tenure. But also

33:11

again, it's true to you. I mean,

33:13

when I think of so

33:15

much of your work, I mean, I just

33:17

think there's a call and response between the

33:19

self, place, the natural world, the animal, and

33:21

like maybe we are all animals too, obviously.

33:24

Yeah. Yeah, I love that.

33:26

And I did really want to do something that

33:28

was authentic to myself, you know,

33:30

and it's hard because I have many authentic

33:32

selves. I

33:36

love it. But I really believe in

33:38

this project and I'm super excited that it

33:40

not only got to feature a lot of

33:43

great voices, but it also, there'll

33:45

be iconic poems in the national parks,

33:47

which I'm excited about too. That's

33:49

so cool. I didn't want to have one. Okay,

33:52

we've demystified, but we're going to bring the miss

33:55

back. We're going to bring the miss back for

33:57

one second. One graduate level question because it's actually...

34:00

actually has been something I've been curious about. It

34:02

was inspired by a Blue Sky user who

34:04

goes by Drone Kuzak, which is

34:06

such a great username. And

34:08

they wanted to ask about the art of translation. And

34:11

so I was like, okay, this is something I've wondered, is

34:14

a translated poem still the

34:16

same poem? Or

34:20

do you consider it something different entirely?

34:23

Because you know, if poems come down

34:25

to word choice,

34:27

mind break, punctuation, I mean, it's

34:29

really like a detail by detail

34:31

by detail. And then

34:33

to translate, you know, Palestinian poem

34:35

or a poem from Ukraine, you

34:39

know, what do you think about? It's not

34:41

life or death. But

34:43

what do you think? Right, I mean, I think that,

34:45

you know, I've spent a lot of time with translation

34:48

and I actually, I do think

34:50

it's different. I think that because our

34:52

language is how we know how to

34:55

name things and we're working with sound

34:57

work, we're looking for, you know,

34:59

I always say the poems are the smallest units.

35:01

We work with the sound first and

35:03

then the syllable, then the word, then

35:06

the clause, then

35:09

the line break, then the sentence, then

35:11

the sojour, then the stanza break. And

35:14

you know, so we're working in

35:16

a very, very, very small unit

35:18

and so to make all

35:20

of those decisions that we make as poets

35:23

is such an embodiment of our own

35:25

spirit, soul, blood, all of that. And

35:28

so to have that translated, you know,

35:30

when you see that translation, it's

35:32

very intimate. And I think

35:34

at closest, it's like it's twin. And

35:38

then oftentimes it's a sibling like a sister

35:40

or a brother. And I think

35:42

that it becomes its own thing. I think

35:44

it's its own sort of brilliant life force

35:47

that's meeting the other life force. Oh,

35:50

perfect answer, perfect answer. You should be the poet,

35:53

Lori. We should get on that. You're

35:55

pretty good at this poetry

35:57

advocacy stuff. Alright,

36:00

it's time for us to take a quick break,

36:02

but Satan will be right back with your questions

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38:02

Hi reback! Zack and I are

38:04

now going to ask Ala Moana

38:06

Ansaid some of your questions about

38:08

poetry. I have a question

38:11

for you. You know I grew

38:13

up in Catholic school god bless

38:15

St. James Catholic and Seguin Texas

38:17

but the way those nuns taught

38:20

of poetry was downright for Tony.

38:22

They make as memorize poems and

38:24

then recite them in front of

38:26

our parents at a poet suicidal.

38:28

that seems like the worse way

38:31

to get kids to love poetry.

38:33

Some wondering if you were advising

38:35

teachers on how to teach poetry.

38:37

Two young kids. What

38:40

will be the one thing that he would tell

38:42

them to not do? Yeah, I

38:44

think that first thing I would say

38:46

would be to not act as if

38:48

the plane itself has an answer. That.

38:51

It is nine months and to be

38:53

solved. Right or from answer either.

38:55

It's not. It is actually a mystery

38:57

and that it can be read many,

38:59

many different ways. Had melee. Interpretations.

39:02

And. It might sit and land with

39:04

someone or an individual level that's

39:07

entirely different than someone elses interpret.

39:09

The I loved that because so much of the

39:11

way I was taught poetry was like he was

39:13

mass. Yes, there is a rhyme scheme and eighty

39:15

reason I answer that. This is it. Yeah, Okay,

39:19

what is the one thing them as you

39:21

want every poetry teacher to do with young

39:23

kids. I would love for us

39:25

to talk about feelings. Rise

39:28

of gonna sound very serious but

39:30

like make you feel. I.

39:32

Mean is there are lot of amazing

39:35

teachers do incredible work out there that

39:37

one of the things that they'll they'll

39:39

talk about where choice I'll talk about

39:41

images are talk about metaphor but I

39:43

think that we don't leave space for

39:45

how does it make you feel. Yeah.

39:48

And I think that's really important that.

39:51

Is either poetry does have

39:53

an emotional impact. And.

39:55

We've gone too long. Without.

39:57

Giving enough credit to poem. for

40:00

the way they shift our beings. Yeah,

40:03

and I would also just to jump in to

40:05

say that one of

40:07

poetry's most distinct gifts compared

40:10

to the other forms

40:12

of literature, which obviously I love to,

40:14

you know, I write a lot of

40:16

nonfiction, for example, but I think poetry

40:18

really works to give language

40:21

to help us name often

40:23

ineffable, murky feelings.

40:28

Feelings that you can't get from

40:30

a newspaper article or even a short

40:32

story necessarily. And so yeah, pushing students,

40:34

and obviously it's healthy for young

40:36

people to talk about feelings anyway, but

40:39

that's kind of why poetry

40:41

is special. Yeah, I think about that. I

40:43

love it. Right, quote, you know, the goal is

40:45

not to tell a story, but to experience the

40:47

whole mess. And

40:49

that is so important, right? We need

40:51

to experience the messiness of life. And

40:54

so poetry doesn't have clean answers.

40:57

It doesn't have a clean narrative. It's

40:59

about the mess. It's about, you

41:02

know, the emotional impact. It's about

41:04

the nuance. It's about making space

41:06

for complex ideas all in

41:08

one place, which is how we

41:10

live, right? That's how we live. There

41:12

you go. We can live with sorrow and grief and rage, as

41:15

well as joy and as well

41:17

as love all at the same time. We do

41:19

that almost on a momentary basis. Yeah,

41:22

I love that. Well, speaking of mess, I

41:24

have a messy question for you. Well,

41:27

really, it's just messy that I'm making

41:29

myself a part of it. Oh, okay.

41:31

And so here we go. So

41:33

some people may know this about me. I know

41:35

Saeed Jones knows this about me, but years ago,

41:37

I would say, I mean, 10 years ago, I

41:40

was obsessed with Prelude to Brews, Saeed's

41:42

first child book. Oh, God, I know which one. And

41:45

I famously or infamously would read poems

41:47

to men on dates from Saeed's book,

41:49

and I would just pick and choose

41:51

it. Did it work? It

41:53

worked, girl, it worked. It was Prelude to Brews.

41:56

Look, I don't know where it's gonna lead you,

41:58

but it'll lead you somewhere. I know. Right

42:02

now. We

42:04

know about different times, different manner like

42:06

a different question from says are one

42:08

of our pitcher on Sisters and she

42:10

writes. I read a lot of novels

42:12

so I'm used to picking up a

42:14

book and reading it from front to

42:16

back and ideally in a few sitting.

42:18

So everything is press. but is that

42:20

the best way to read a poetry

42:22

collections as the like. There might be

42:24

other ways that enable the reader to

42:26

absorb the were better but I'm not

42:28

sure what it is. When in

42:31

athlete. L I don't think there's the

42:33

right way goes back to think that

42:35

there's a certain answer to a poem.

42:37

I like to defend it out. I

42:39

like to move into upon a in

42:41

a read one poem. Think about it,

42:43

contemplate it. And. Then there are times where

42:45

I think home as really and love to some

42:47

know when I went with the first phones like and

42:49

then I will accepting that oh no I just he

42:52

has sat here for three yeah. Chris. Sit

42:54

The fuck am? But

42:56

I think often times the intent for

42:58

me as to go in just one

43:00

poem at a time. I think that

43:02

the currency of Poland is one thing

43:04

that a time and if you has.

43:07

The. Moment and the wherewithal and the heart. Space

43:09

in the head. Space to read a whole book.

43:12

More. Power to you but it certainly doesn't

43:14

have to be that one Palmer time is

43:16

is beautiful enough and I would also offer

43:18

to heather. That. Is she finds

43:20

that her mind wanders. That.

43:23

Is a beautiful thing. Yeah, Poetry

43:25

says you can have your mind

43:27

can wonder. To go

43:29

but it's supposed to. Harper. And

43:32

then you can go back and other again because

43:34

l a way to Scientists. Had a single a

43:36

most experience where I was thinking about my own

43:38

mother and this and that and then you go

43:41

back to the beginning. You start again that is

43:43

so beautiful. That is not a wrong

43:45

reading if the right reading Now because it's a

43:47

soul reading. So. Well, and

43:49

it's like we give ourselves that grace.

43:52

With. Other mediums like if I have a podcast

43:54

on and I miss the saying yeah, rewind yet.

43:56

Same with the show. You're allowed to read consume,

43:58

Overcome Soon. Whatever you need to the game, you

44:01

are allowed to skip. The as yet allow

44:03

them. Yeah I

44:05

love about her. the framing This is that

44:07

it does apply to other our consumption because

44:09

when you find yourself daydreaming going somewhere else

44:12

walking away I would through a phase where

44:14

I'd be watching in college at watches movies

44:16

with my friend and is one of my

44:18

programs and I would leave during really tough

44:20

moments of a movie. It's use the always

44:23

noticed that I thought I just got bored.

44:25

Know you're you're getting figured in this moment.

44:27

No at new you're bringing up his you

44:29

know the body is communicating some information. Reminder

44:31

some no not. Finishing the poem or skipping

44:33

had to listen to the body the phone

44:36

down on. The suggests a lot of

44:38

finality. Yeah, We

44:40

have a question from our patriotic

44:42

scriber, Elisa and it's for both.

44:45

Say eat an Ada see wrote.

44:48

I always enjoy hearing how different

44:50

writers structure their days when writing

44:52

and what rituals are routines they

44:54

used to get into that great

44:56

of mode. What? Does your

44:58

eyes in practice look like I'm up

45:00

this cluster? Yeah. I. Mean.

45:03

I would love to hear from say he'd

45:05

been. I know for me at it looks

45:07

very different leave for me when I'm on

45:09

the road and when I'm home and I'm

45:11

on the road quite a bit on a

45:13

probably travel at least with the Laureateship position

45:15

or once or twice a week proof that

45:17

I wake up I said an intention I

45:19

have eternal. The. Journal is all

45:22

things. I. Used to be very precious

45:24

about my journal. I thought that I have

45:26

a dream journal and then like a daily

45:28

journal and then so. It's a journal to

45:30

measure, never mind that amount of is a

45:32

few months ago amount. of like this is all went.

45:34

Like. This is Alan Ladd

45:36

fan of About and. i have notes

45:38

for poems you know and then or has

45:40

i saw the word like patriarchy and then

45:43

like oh you know mccarthy's it as a

45:45

study on hundred authentic other hand am so

45:47

i'm constantly taking notes that's a big part

45:49

of my day when i'm actually sitting down

45:51

with intent to right because i feel something

45:53

coming on our i have enough notes were

45:56

i think something interesting is moving in me

45:58

then biggest thing I have to do and

46:00

this is difficult I think it's difficult for

46:02

all of us but is to be quiet

46:05

and to have silence and

46:07

I am someone who loves music I

46:10

love podcasts I listen to you guys

46:12

all the time I have like all of

46:14

these things but I for me it's very difficult

46:16

to hear my voice

46:19

underneath the voice yes if

46:21

I am not quiet and

46:23

so silence is the biggest tool that will lead me

46:26

into a poem absolutely and that's

46:28

hard to do because I have Alexa at home

46:30

and I'm just talking to her all day yeah

46:32

and I'm like let me some music answer a

46:34

question how are you doing yeah yeah

46:37

I think pretty similar um I

46:39

think it's important to I'm gonna start calling

46:41

it a rich between like I think

46:43

it's important for writers to have a rich

46:45

between when you're traveling when you're running

46:47

groceries which is to say 75 of our

46:50

lives is the rich between yeah

46:53

I saw you say the New Year times

46:55

you're like many writers lives don't actually allow

46:57

us to write so so you know yeah

46:59

I mean even as I was prepping for

47:02

this interview and making notes I started

47:04

making notes on my phone for a poem

47:06

in the past I wouldn't have done that

47:08

yeah as a student I used to be

47:10

very specific and you know it was like

47:12

a ritual very regimented and then I was

47:14

like baby you're never gonna write if you're

47:16

setting all these terms and conditions so

47:18

yeah I think it's important to have

47:21

a rich between I cannot write

47:23

on planes I can't write in

47:25

really shared public spaces for

47:27

the reason Ada pointed I can write like

47:29

dialogue even non-fiction especially if I need to

47:31

be looking out at the world and observing

47:33

in prose I think that makes sense but

47:35

poetry I have to be at home yeah

47:38

and intentional and then the other thing is and

47:40

this is true for any type of writing I'm

47:43

doing I need to

47:45

have some sense of aspiration

47:48

the night before

47:50

I start writing I cannot if

47:53

I'm just tabbed rough when

47:55

I wake up in the morning no idea no

47:58

Notion and I Sit down. It is

48:00

a very stressful and actually unproductive experience

48:03

if I'd need to the night before

48:05

sought like you said, that's why it's

48:07

the risk for means important Not Notebook

48:10

was something that I can pull from

48:12

and be excited to attempt the next

48:14

day I found helps me. That's

48:17

a smart yeah and love that. So.

48:19

Our next lessons also for both of you

48:22

people are they wanted here from both of

48:24

you was on the Johnson a crime in

48:26

restaurants and pick on the road. Want to

48:28

see this life is especially cause I'm Jennifer

48:30

Be she writes writing poetry usually goes hand

48:32

in hand with reading a lot of poetry.

48:34

When writing d find yourself being influenced by

48:36

what you were reading and how do you

48:38

keep true to your poetic voice which eight

48:41

a you just talked a bit about voice

48:43

I'd love to hear your take on them

48:45

as if you actually. As that means a

48:47

great question, I think that it's very tricky for

48:49

me. It's one of the reasons I can't miss

48:51

the music when I'm writing poems and and the

48:54

Medicaid Nine Eleven I could hear it again and

48:56

I just more oh this is I will do

48:58

this it and look at the process under this.

49:00

Is Dixie There was this.

49:02

Ah and sell off for me it has

49:05

to have. I actually do have to have

49:07

a little space and so when I'm really

49:09

writing often times I'm not reading as much.

49:12

Or and evergreen prose. Because.

49:14

I I don't like to put too much. I

49:17

love to post an inspiration yes, but am

49:19

I have to be careful of my own

49:21

urge to mimic as I don't think everyone

49:23

else is like that? I? it is no

49:25

myself. I'm. Very. Sonically Inclined and

49:27

sell and. Is there's a poem

49:29

that I love? The sound as it's easy for me

49:32

to be. I go. This. Is the kind of

49:34

music I went to work. With yes. So

49:36

I I I often laughter read you

49:38

know, prose instead of poetry while I'm

49:40

really either finishing a book are working

49:42

as a certain tail end of of

49:45

editing my own were. yeah

49:47

basically the same aids particular poetry a

49:49

purpose like research driven was a lot

49:51

of my poetry lately has become like

49:53

in the artists or try to read

49:55

a lot a lot and just build

49:57

up and like i said that richer

49:59

but So I just have like a notebook

50:01

full of notes and all of them

50:03

will not become something Because yeah when I'm

50:06

in the writing I do get nervous And

50:10

frankly even more so with prose when I

50:12

was writing my memoir. I was Terrified

50:15

I still haven't seen moonlight Someone

50:22

showed me that Barry Jenkins had

50:24

posted An Instagram of a prelude

50:27

to Bruce the cover boys and water when it came

50:29

out. I was like too much Yeah,

50:33

so I think you know because Poets

50:36

we do we have such a

50:38

rich relationship with sound and perception

50:42

That I think it is right. It's a little hard

50:44

to maybe turn that off and so yeah

50:46

even with poets I love I'm like I'll have

50:48

to read that later Yeah,

50:51

wow Yeah, I

50:54

know we're getting short on time And we'd be

50:56

remiss without having you

50:58

read a little something from

51:00

your new anthology It's called you are

51:03

here poetry in the natural world. It's

51:05

out now We'd be

51:07

so blessed and highly favored Bless

51:11

us we need it Thank

51:15

you for that by the way, this is

51:18

a beautiful poem by the poet Ruth I

51:20

would oh who lives in Columbus,

51:22

Ohio reasons

51:25

to live Because

51:29

if you can survive the

51:32

violet night You

51:34

can survive the next and

51:36

a fig tree will ache with

51:38

sweetness for you in sunlight that

51:41

arrives first at

51:43

your window quietly pawing

51:45

even when you can't stand

51:47

it and You'll heavy

51:49

the whining floorboards of the house

51:52

you filled with animals as

51:54

hurt and lost as you and The

51:58

Bearded irises will form fully. In

52:00

their roots their golden means

52:02

swaying with the one displaying.

52:05

Live. Live. Live.

52:08

Live. One. Day

52:11

You'll put your hands in

52:13

the earth and understand an

52:15

after life isn't proof. That.

52:18

A spray of scorpion grass

52:20

keeps growing and a dogs will

52:22

sing their whole bodies in

52:24

praise of you. And

52:26

the red bugs will lay down their

52:28

pink clones. And the rivers

52:31

will set their stones and ribbons

52:33

at your door. If

52:35

only. You'll let the

52:37

world. Soften, You. With.

52:39

It's touching. Oh.

52:42

Oh oh come on says oh

52:45

wow. I'm fired

52:47

if. I

52:49

had to look away from the as I said

52:51

i'm i'm not number of us I like to

52:53

lie for you. I love how much I was

52:56

gonna say an. Old

52:58

am I was like oh my god

53:00

is far the summer way out the

53:02

window? Wow. However, lists that are gonna

53:04

take a break. But one thing our

53:06

listeners really a lot about was how

53:08

to begin reading poetry, and I think

53:10

we're going to touch on that. Our

53:12

recommendations. Agnes coming up next. So don't go

53:15

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future. All

55:53

right, listeners, we are back and we are

55:55

here with our best girlfriend, Ada. It

55:58

just really is our first time meeting family. I

56:00

was like, I was telling him, I was like, I

56:02

feel the way I've talked about poetry on

56:04

the podcast has been hopefully welcoming and inviting,

56:06

but I was like, trust me, Ada is

56:08

way nicer. I'm like, way better.

56:10

Oh yeah. No, but you have been doing

56:13

such an amazing job, Saeed. Thank you, McQueen.

56:15

And also, I mean, can we just say,

56:17

you're just such an incredible reader of poems

56:19

that really, I could just listen to

56:21

you read poems all day. Oh my goodness. But

56:24

we'd love to hear some of the recs you brought.

56:26

I hear you have some tools for us or some

56:28

inspiration. Well, one of the things that

56:30

you guys were talking about earlier was the idea

56:33

of how to get started, right? And

56:35

I do think one of the poets that to

56:37

me was a gateway

56:40

poet was Lucille Clifton.

56:42

So I think for me, the

56:44

collective Lucille Clifton is you

56:47

cannot go wrong. You cannot go wrong. And

56:50

then there's also this incredible book that I

56:52

love. It's called Please Excuse This Poem. And

56:56

it's out by Viking. It came out, I think, in 2015.

56:59

So it's been a while. But it's 100 poems.

57:02

And they're all just wonderful.

57:05

And I oftentimes will recommend

57:07

an anthology with different authors because that

57:09

way, it is like getting

57:12

a great Spotify

57:15

or however you listen to music, whatever

57:17

platform you use, a mix. And

57:20

then being like, oh, I love this one, and being also

57:22

to skip around. And so that's a really

57:24

good place to start. And then

57:26

the other book that I just find so

57:28

beautiful is Tracy K. Smith, New and Selected.

57:31

It came out a few years ago as well called Such

57:34

Color. And I go back to

57:36

it often. I just think she's one of

57:38

our best. And I also find her work

57:40

very approachable. If you haven't

57:42

spent time with poetry, I think

57:45

she's a great doorway. I

57:47

love you pointing, because I keep thinking about this,

57:50

creating the occasion so that

57:52

you can amass lines or

57:54

poems you like and anthologies

57:57

are great. Because it hurts me. I'm like, for

57:59

the average... I don't know, I

58:01

guess I would say college-educated reader. It's

58:04

like, well, if you only see poems in The

58:06

New Yorker, then you're seeing one or

58:08

two isolated poems a month. And

58:10

if you feel already daunted

58:13

by poetry, then you open it, you see

58:15

this one poem, and you go,

58:17

I like it or I don't. And that's

58:19

too much power. One poem. So

58:21

an astrology is a great way to open that. Yeah. And

58:24

that's one of the things I really wanted to do with You Are Here was that it

58:26

felt like, you know, with the legacy of

58:28

a nature poem in my

58:30

education, speaking of unlearning things, almost

58:32

every nature poem I knew was a white

58:35

man going to a mountain having an epiphany.

58:37

Very that. And how did that... Well,

58:40

his wife was home watching the kids. And

58:43

how do I reown it, rehome it? And

58:46

how do I make sure that all

58:48

of us, you know, feel like

58:51

we can have a sense of interconnectedness,

58:53

that we are all nature together on this

58:56

planet? And that that sense can give us all

58:58

a sense of belonging. And

59:01

that was really important for me, just putting

59:03

together the project, because that

59:05

was not the nature poem that I

59:07

was taught. My agent still

59:09

laughs at me. I'll text you

59:11

the specific tea later, Ada. But

59:15

in a moment of panic a few years

59:17

ago, I said, I'm not ready for my

59:19

daffodils era. I can't. Wow. I

59:22

am not ready. Oh, I can't. I'm

59:24

not ready. I think we can say this. I used a poem

59:26

from... Yo, no, oh no. That's the first

59:28

line of the poem. That's the first line of the

59:30

poem. I'm not ready. I'm not ready. But you're right.

59:32

It's like, it's interesting. I

59:38

think particularly queer people, people of

59:40

color, the way we're introduced to

59:43

natural poetry, nature poetry is

59:45

often like colonizer poetry, is

59:47

actually what's often happening. It

59:50

is. It's a

59:52

colonizer mindset. There is

59:54

an idea that this land is ours. And

59:58

instead, what is it to be like, oh, I'm not ready. I

1:00:00

am in a reciprocal

1:00:02

relationship with every living thing

1:00:04

on this planet. There's power in

1:00:06

that That's such power. Oh my

1:00:09

gosh Ada. Thank you so much for joining us.

1:00:12

This is a dream come true I

1:00:17

want to thank you specifically for

1:00:19

your poem called The

1:00:22

contract says we'd like the conversation

1:00:24

to be bilingual That

1:00:26

one really hits. I love it so much. Thank

1:00:28

you for it. Thank you All

1:00:35

right, that's the show thank you for tuning in

1:00:37

to this week's episode of five check If you

1:00:39

love the show and want to support us Please

1:00:41

make sure to follow us on your favorite podcast

1:00:43

listening platform subscribe on Apple podcast leave a review

1:00:47

Friend and of course a very special.

1:00:49

Thank you to our guest Ada Lamont

1:00:51

huge Thank you to our producer Santa

1:00:53

holder engineer rich Garcia and Marcus hum

1:00:55

for our theme music and sound design

1:00:57

also Special thanks to our

1:00:59

executive producers Nora Richie at stitcher and

1:01:01

Brandon sharp from agenda. I Was

1:01:04

thinking about how to rhyme the last line of credit,

1:01:06

but I'm gonna skip that. I'm not gonna do

1:01:08

that Let

1:01:11

it go because as we've learned of course now

1:01:13

our poems have the right all poems do not

1:01:15

have to run There we go. Especially if you're

1:01:17

writing getting your name is Sam Sanders. Put that

1:01:19

finger down you point real hard I'm putting that

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below down Listeners

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we want to rise scheme alone Listers

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we always want to hear from you. Don't forget

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you can email us at vibe check at stitcher

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calm Keep in touch with us on

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Instagram as well. We have a brand new page The

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our patreon art the drone For

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five bucks a month get in

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that group chat with us patreon.com Slash

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vibe check. All right

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poets until next time be good to yourself. We'll

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see you next Wednesday. Oh, I love

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that. All right This

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is a big year. The

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Ohio Lottery's Golden Anniversary. Fifty

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years of excitement of growing

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years of funding for schools.

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Of changed lives and brightened

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And that is worth celebrating. So

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watch for campness promotions. Huge events

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and new games that will make

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the Ohio Lottery's 50th year its

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biggest one yet. Learn

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more at funturns50.com. Time

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for a quick break to talk about

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at McDonald's. For just three dollars mix

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