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to go on with our for basic

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food groups though. and what do we

1:01

have for Democrats? Sack for Democrats Suck.

1:03

We're going to turn to this Really?

1:05

Shocking. News for me at least this

1:08

week when the International Criminal Court requested.

1:10

Arrest warrants for the leaders of both

1:12

Israel and Hamas. Personally I'd say I

1:15

was surprised I didn't I think the

1:17

Icy See would do it. I've always

1:19

seen them sort of a geopolitical. Tool.

1:22

Of the west there's a reason the

1:24

cop international caucasian court because they're basically

1:26

only indict African leaders occasionally the go

1:28

after like up designated bad guy or

1:30

in the u his eyes like poodle

1:33

or Milosevic. but as the actually dated

1:35

or we saw the indictment. For.

1:38

Is. A Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu and

1:40

enjoy Defense Minister you are Golan

1:42

along with three Hamas leaders And

1:45

the bottom illustration is very upset.

1:47

So let's look at how Joe

1:49

Biden handled in his. Let

1:51

me be clear reject the I

1:53

see she's application arrest warrants against

1:56

Israel. who claps

1:58

for that like what are you if you

2:00

were supportive of Biden's view and against what

2:03

the ICC did. Wouldn't you boo? Yeah.

2:05

It's an odd thing to get excited about. It's like you're

2:08

not at a rock concert or like a pop concert. Whee!

2:11

Whee! Let's condemn the ICC. Woohoo!

2:15

We don't like seeing people being held

2:17

accountable for genocide. Whee! I

2:19

wonder if anyone like took out a lighter. Wave

2:22

it around. Whatever these

2:24

words may imply, there's no equivalence

2:26

between Israel and Hamas. By

2:29

the way, that was a major talking point

2:31

going around. Everyone, all of Israel's defenders were

2:35

claiming there was no equivalence between Israel and

2:37

Hamas. Well, this is the

2:39

point, right? Because they can't actually dispute the case on

2:41

the merits because they're being accused of war crimes, you

2:45

know, massacring civilians and depriving them

2:47

of basic aid, which Israeli leaders

2:49

openly promised to do. So given

2:51

how overwhelming the evidence is, they

2:54

can't actually attack this case on

2:56

the merits. So they're creating a

2:58

straw man issue of the

3:01

ICC drawing an equivalence between Hamas and Israel, which

3:03

the ICC did not do. They just happened to

3:05

announce the charges at the same time. By the

3:07

way, I mean, if you want

3:09

to get into it, I agree there's no equivalence

3:12

between Israel and Hamas. First of

3:14

all, the crimes of Israel are

3:16

exponentially higher. And, you

3:18

know, from a legal standpoint, there is

3:21

no equivalency between an occupying power and

3:23

a militant group that resists it. That doesn't mean that

3:25

Hamas didn't commit war crimes. Like you don't have you

3:27

don't have carte blanche to commit war crimes if you're

3:30

resisting military occupation. Right. But

3:32

in terms of the equivalence, yeah,

3:34

it's not even close. Israel

3:37

is not only committing mass

3:39

murder, but it's a state party with obligations

3:41

because it's carrying out an occupation.

3:43

Palestinians have legal right to resist occupation.

3:45

They don't have the right to kill

3:48

civilians, but they commit

3:50

war crimes against civilians, but they have

3:52

the right to resist. So Biden's

3:54

right. There's no equivalence just for the wrong reasons.

3:57

Exactly. Now

4:01

it's clear, Israel wants to

4:03

do all it can to ensure civilian protection.

4:05

But let me be clear, contrary

4:07

to allegations against Israel made by

4:09

the International Court of Justice, what's

4:11

happening is not genocide. We

4:13

reject that. We

4:16

always stand with Israel and

4:18

the threats against its security. I mean, so

4:21

again, you notice how he's not challenging the

4:23

case on the merits. He creates a straw

4:25

man of an equivalency, which ICC did not

4:27

do. And then he talks about the ICJ

4:29

case, which is separate, where Israel is accused

4:31

of genocide. The ICC, which

4:34

is requesting these indictments, isn't alleging genocide. So

4:36

you can see how desperate they are right

4:38

there and how angry they are because they

4:40

actually cannot challenge this case on

4:42

its merits. They bring up two unrelated

4:46

aspects of this that don't speak to the merits

4:48

of the ICC case. Right.

4:51

Really flimsy, pathetic. There

4:53

has of course been a bipartisan freak

4:55

out over this ICC move. And we're

4:57

going to hear from the Republicans on

4:59

this, Katie, when you do Republicans suck

5:01

very surely. But let's look at

5:03

how Democrats are handling this news. And

5:05

Anthony Blinken, the Secretary of State, went before Congress

5:09

where a Republican Senator, Jim

5:11

Reish, who was just an ultra hawk,

5:14

ultra neocon, basically said to him that

5:16

we want to take action against the ICC. And

5:19

Anthony Blinken, in true bipartisan

5:21

fashion, said absolutely, we

5:24

want to take action against the ICC too. The

5:27

extremely wrongheaded decision

5:30

by the ICC prosecutor yesterday,

5:33

the shameful equivalence

5:35

implied between

5:38

Hamas and the leadership

5:40

of Israel, I think that only complicates the

5:42

prospects for getting such an agreement. We'll

5:45

continue to forge ahead to do that. But

5:49

that decision, as you said, on

5:51

so many levels is totally

5:54

wrongheaded. And we'll

5:57

be happy to work with

5:59

Congress. with this committee on

6:01

an appropriate response. So there we go. That is

6:03

Anthony Blake inciting with the Republicans and saying, yes,

6:05

we're going to respond to the ICC. And

6:09

I presume that means, I don't know,

6:11

reviving sanctions on the ICC, which

6:14

the US has imposed before when they try to

6:16

go after US forces or thought about going after

6:18

US forces in Afghanistan. There's also

6:20

the Hague invasion act, which

6:22

was passed during the war on terror, where basically

6:24

we threatened to invade the Hague if ever they

6:26

prosecuted anybody for US war crime.

6:29

It's embarrassing. Who knows what kind

6:31

of fun things they'll come up with, but

6:34

that's the bipartisan response. Now, what's

6:36

extra ironic about all this is

6:38

that all of a sudden when the

6:41

ICC tries to hold Israel accountable for war

6:43

crimes, ICC is out of line.

6:45

It doesn't have jurisdiction. We're going to even sanction it.

6:47

We're going to do whatever. But

6:50

when the ICC goes after Russia, it's a much

6:52

different story. And here

6:54

is Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin

6:56

vowing that, yes, while we

6:58

completely reject the ICC when it comes to

7:01

Israel, when it comes to them

7:03

accusing Russia of war crimes, it's

7:05

full steam ahead. We're going to keep cooperating with them.

7:08

Regarding the question of whether or not we'll

7:10

continue to provide support to the ICC

7:12

with respect

7:14

to crimes that are committed in Ukraine,

7:17

yes, we continue that work. So

7:19

how's that going to work? We're going to keep

7:21

working with the ICC when it comes to going

7:23

after Russia, right? But

7:26

if they also, I don't know, pass sanctions against the

7:28

ICC, is that going to be awkward? What

7:30

is it saying about the ICC's position

7:33

on Russia? Yeah. And it's

7:35

like, if they're actually working with the ICC as

7:37

they've been doing, they've been cooperating. Like,

7:40

how practically are they going to do that? For example,

7:42

if they sanction the ICC, that means

7:44

that they can't talk to them and they can't work with them.

7:47

So how are they going to do it? Are they going to, is

7:49

there going to be some carve out where they're going to walk in

7:51

the office and be like, all right, we're here to talk

7:54

about Russia. And here's like a little

7:56

case file for, here's like

7:58

some data that we've gathered about Russia. But

8:00

also here's like I have to

8:02

slap you on the wrist too because and I have

8:04

to like I have to turn my back on you Because I'm not

8:06

supposed to talk to you about Because

8:09

you went after Israel too. It's just gonna be very

8:11

awkward. It's awkward. Yeah It's like telling a

8:13

friend that they have terrible judgment while also

8:15

agreeing with that friend crashing

8:17

someone else I mean, we've

8:19

all been there. We've all been there I mean, you

8:21

know, it's maybe very who knows maybe it's very like

8:24

relatable behavior by the bottom of the nation to be

8:26

so Mercurial, but

8:28

well, it's like relatable Democracy,

8:30

it's relatable awkwardness. Yeah, because they're

8:32

being such hypocrites. Yeah. Yes,

8:35

it's awkward because of pictures like this This is a

8:37

photo op that was done back when the

8:39

ICC was the greatest thing in the world because they

8:41

were going after Russia so here is a

8:44

group of senators visiting the

8:46

ICC including the prosecutor who

8:48

just sought the Israel indictments Karim

8:51

Khan and he's there with

8:53

a group of visiting Democratic senators including My

8:56

friend Chris Coons my train Yeah,

8:59

and the currently on trial

9:01

Bob Menendez who's Facing

9:04

a massive corruption case In

9:06

New York City, we know accused of taking things

9:09

like gold bars and have a lot

9:11

of cash in his home to help a halal

9:14

food distributor in the US so

9:17

You know, it's just it's the US is

9:19

a very fickle friend very very little friend fair

9:22

weather friend Yeah, you know also Menendez his

9:24

wife Killed someone

9:27

I believe was vehicular manslaughter She

9:30

ran someone over with her car. Yes, that's a

9:32

that is not a case that that she caught

9:34

and It was rumored that

9:37

Bob Menendez legal strategy was gonna entail throwing her under

9:39

the bus Under the

9:41

car under the car. There we go.

9:44

All right. Well for For

9:46

Republicans suck. Let's see how Lindsey

9:48

Graham senator Lindsey Graham reacted to

9:51

the ICC requests for arrest

9:53

warrants So we hopefully

9:56

together we'll find a way to restaurant

9:59

display with the ICC because if they'll

10:01

do this to Israel, we're next. This

10:04

group tried to come after our soldiers. Yeah,

10:06

you can clap all you want to. They

10:09

tried to come after our soldiers in

10:11

Afghanistan, but reason prevailed. So

10:14

at the end of the day here, what

10:16

I hope to happen is that we level

10:18

sanctions against the ICC for this outrage to

10:20

not only help our friends in Israel, but

10:23

protect ourselves over time. Mr. Secretary, your statement

10:25

yesterday was excellent. The person

10:27

statement was excellent. The American

10:29

consumer statement on the floor was excellent about

10:32

the outrage here. They have destroyed the

10:34

notion of complementarity. They have misled people

10:36

in the United States Senate about their

10:38

intention, and they shall and will pay

10:41

a price. Mr. Secretary, I appreciate what

10:43

you've said. It is now time for

10:45

us to act. A couple

10:47

of interesting things there. Notice how

10:49

bipartisan, as you mentioned before, Aaron,

10:51

how bipartisan the condemnation of the

10:54

ICC is. There's really no daylight

10:56

there. But also, I like how

10:58

honest Lindsey Graham is. He's saying if they

11:00

go after Israel, they could go after us.

11:03

From Lindsey Graham's mouth to God's ears, that's what

11:06

I say. Exactly. But it's funny

11:08

that he's saying that part out loud because

11:10

he's kind of exposing the fact that, I

11:12

mean, to him, obviously, he's claiming

11:14

that it would be as preposterous to go after

11:16

the United States as it would be to go

11:19

after Israel. But for anyone with a working brain,

11:21

of course, what this really means is

11:23

the US is afraid of the ICC

11:26

for daring to go after Israel,

11:28

but also imagine if they went

11:30

after the United States, which would

11:32

be equally unacceptable.

11:35

But the United States and Israel

11:37

is united by its common values, including

11:39

war crimes. And just

11:41

on the issue of Gaza alone, the ICC

11:43

should be going after the US because the

11:46

US is equally complicit. Israel

11:48

cannot be doing what it's doing without US support, military,

11:51

diplomatic at all levels. So

11:53

I bring it on. Another Republican

11:56

Who had an interesting response to the

11:58

ICC decision is House. Mike

12:00

Johnson, America first. America.

12:03

Should. Punish the I see see. And

12:06

put Karim Khan back in his place

12:08

and of the I see see is

12:10

allowed to threaten Israel's leaders. We know

12:12

that America will be next. There is

12:15

a reason that we've never endorsed the

12:17

International Criminal Court because it is a

12:19

direct affront to our own sovereignty. We

12:22

don't put any international body among among

12:24

or above American sovereignty. and and Israel.

12:27

Does. That the doesn't do that either.

12:29

Or Congress's review and all of our

12:31

options. Right now we have some very

12:34

aggressive legislation everyone to push isn't as

12:36

quickly as possible. Oh, it will impose

12:38

sanctions. And if the

12:40

I see see move forward with it's

12:42

absurd warrant arrest or request the song

12:44

Love This is going to be an

12:47

even bigger international from. And

12:49

what is Mike Johnson mean when he

12:51

says putting our time back in his

12:53

place? Well, we actually have a pretty

12:55

good idea that that has. This is

12:57

what Cream Khan said during a Cnn

13:00

interview about things he was told. By

13:02

certain elected leaders. Strategic.

13:04

Interests. And of course I've

13:06

had some elected leaders says be to me and

13:08

are very believe in a be very blunt. This.

13:11

Court. Is built for Africa.

13:14

And. For said slight Pluto was

13:16

what one senior leader. Told

13:18

me cel. how dare you Cream

13:21

pie on how dare you. Not

13:23

follow our rules are very

13:26

hypocritical: unprincipled, selective application. Of

13:29

International Law and as you Now and

13:31

as we told you Karim. You're. Only

13:33

allowed to go off to Africa and and

13:35

people like them. You're. Not the

13:37

International Criminal Court your the International

13:40

Caucasian Court. So go after African

13:42

leaders and maybe a few. Not.

13:45

Africans if we really really don't like them.

13:47

What Latimer put, bullets, It. Know. What else?

13:50

I'd love to know. Of course are you

13:52

know from with country. That.

13:54

that senior official who yeah holding got

13:56

come from i'm gonna guess it comes

13:58

from my the us UK. But

14:03

it's really a mask off moment. It's really a mask

14:05

off moment. The contempt that

14:08

our elites have for international law,

14:10

for all this

14:12

talk they have about the rules based

14:14

international order. Well, I guess the International

14:16

Criminal Court trying to hold war

14:19

criminals accountable is not a

14:21

part of the rules based international order anymore because now

14:23

it's actually trying to apply some

14:25

standards to people who we're

14:28

in league with. Also, isn't that

14:30

so disgusting to say that they're gonna put them

14:32

in this place? Oh yeah, it's very

14:34

racist language. So racist. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

14:36

Put them in this place. Exactly. Yeah.

14:39

But that's America First or Mike Johnson.

14:41

Right. America First means doing Israel's bidding.

14:43

It means, you know, like talks about

14:45

like, you know, our sovereignty, respect for

14:48

our sovereignty. Well, where's the respect for

14:50

our sovereignty in, you

14:52

know, letting Israel basically

14:54

destroy the US

14:57

reputation, its professed commitment to

15:00

international law, letting its lobby groups

15:02

buy off Congress members constantly

15:04

with its, you

15:06

know, all the money that APAC spends on

15:09

congressional races, all the meddling it does in

15:11

US democracy. Where's the concern about US sovereignty

15:13

there for a so-called America Firster? It's

15:16

really America kind of Firster. It's

15:19

America tied with Israel Firster. Yeah.

15:22

So what do we got for isn't that weird,

15:24

Aaron? For isn't that weird, we're gonna go over

15:27

to Germany, where

15:31

look, you know, we're just, we're

15:33

journalists here, right? So we're just reporting this news,

15:35

we're bringing it to you. I

15:38

don't want to put imagery of a

15:40

guy licking toilets on the air, but this

15:43

is what a German politician did. His name is

15:45

Martin Neumeier, and he went

15:47

viral after he filmed himself licking

15:50

public toilets. So let's go to the tape. A

15:52

German politician is under fire after he

15:54

was seen licking public toilets in a

15:57

series of inappropriate videos. German politician Martin

15:59

Neumeier alleged. There we go. Listen,

16:01

the categories isn't that weird? The

16:03

imagery is of a German politician licking toilets and toilet

16:05

implements. So

16:09

I think that's weird. I mean,

16:11

I think we fulfilled our duty

16:13

as providing him weird. He's

16:16

apparently a candidate with the FDP, which is a

16:18

very, very, very, very, very, very hard

16:21

to understand. I mean, I think

16:24

we fulfilled our duty as providing

16:26

him weird. He's apparently a candidate

16:28

with the FDP, which is a,

16:30

you know, a German right

16:32

wing party. Always the right wingers

16:34

who do really weird shit. Yeah. Now

16:37

listen, have we done our due diligence on this

16:39

story? Have we gone deep and researched this? No,

16:41

we have not. So, I don't

16:44

know. Is this maybe some kind

16:46

of scam or something? Like a

16:48

deep fake? Like AI? No

16:51

senior candidate is this guy. I don't

16:53

really know. But all I know is

16:55

we saw on Twitter that a German politician was licking toilets

16:57

and we thought it was weird. And that's enough for us.

16:59

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

17:02

Exactly. Yeah. So

17:04

for, isn't that terrible? Let's hear what

17:07

once a very long time ago, slightly

17:09

relevant person, John Lovett had to say

17:11

about Bernie Sanders on Fox News. And

17:14

Bernie Sanders is, he's always been,

17:16

you know, I

17:18

think he's, I said it before and I'll say it again.

17:21

He's a self loathing Jew and

17:24

there's a lot of them. And

17:30

you know, you go, why do you say that? I

17:32

go, well, it's clear as a bell. You

17:39

know, he's not for Israel. They

17:44

have to stop this war. Why isn't

17:46

he condemning Hamas for starting it? What

17:49

about that? And

17:51

whatever you think of Trump, the

17:53

fact is that he's done more

17:56

for Israel than any

17:58

president. in the

18:00

history of this country. OK, so John

18:03

Lovett, full disclosure, I've fought

18:05

with on Twitter over whether

18:07

or not Israel is committing

18:09

genocide. A couple things here. He

18:11

takes a really long time to make

18:13

points that are really not very intelligent

18:16

or well thought or thought provoking. You'd

18:18

think that saying such garbage would kind

18:20

of flow, roll off the tongue more. So

18:23

there's that. The other

18:25

thing is that he accuses Bernie

18:27

Sanders of being a self-loathing Jew

18:29

because he doesn't support Israel, which

18:31

is in itself an anti-Semitic trope.

18:33

That's the dual loyalty trope, suggesting

18:36

that all Jews support Israel, conflating

18:38

being Jewish with supporting Israel, which is something

18:41

anti-Semites do. And he says Bernie

18:43

hasn't condemned Hamas. Now we on the show have talked

18:45

about how not only has he condemned Hamas, but he

18:47

kind of put the blame on them for

18:49

starting the war on October 7th. Which

18:52

of course I'm sure John Lovett likes. So

18:55

for all those reasons, that's

18:58

my isn't that terrible? So Katie, what

19:00

I'm hearing you say is that you're a critic of

19:03

the critic. Yeah, I'm

19:05

a hater the hater. No, but you're a critic

19:07

of the critic because people… Oh, I get it.

19:10

OK. … are the animated show The Critic. Sorry,

19:12

I'm sorry that went over my head for talking.

19:14

I forgot about that. Yeah, you're right. That's true.

19:16

Yeah. It was a short-lived sitcom.

19:20

I don't recall watching it, but I remember it was

19:22

on after The Simpsons. OK. But

19:25

yes, The Critic has turned into

19:27

a critic of anybody

19:29

who isn't kissing Israel's feet, and that

19:31

includes Bernie Sanders because he raises some

19:34

human rights concerns about mass murder. So John Lovett

19:36

is not happy about that. And

19:40

yeah, well, listen, if

19:42

you're a Hollywood star and you would

19:45

like, no matter how marginal you are at this

19:47

point, if you are

19:49

there to defend Israel and its mass

19:52

murder, its extermination of civilians, you'll

19:54

get a spot on TV. Right. Fox News

19:56

will have you. Probably all the networks will

19:58

have you. That it

20:00

and I and a sitcom. Who Enough and in

20:02

a brand new. Design.

20:04

As credit. Assaulted a terrible show.

20:07

His fictional show would be just as terrible

20:09

as I clip. we just aca. Navy

20:11

and Debra Messing. that sorry and movie where

20:13

they both go to. Israel. Has ever

20:15

met her and prices since Israel. Be careful what

20:18

you wish for up to me during my tomorrow

20:20

Yeah yep you know it is be to direct

20:22

it. Yeah, I'm

20:24

Brett Gelman Has Darnell so vast this is

20:26

a nightmare without turning than they were. All.

20:29

right? and those your for basic food groups. For

20:32

this week's guess, we're joined

20:34

by Anthony Low in Steam

20:36

User, independent journalist, filmmaker and

20:38

cofounder of Declassified Australia. His

20:41

latest book is the global best

20:43

seller, The Palestine Laboratory How Israel

20:45

exports the technology of occupation around

20:47

the world. The was based in

20:49

Israel, Palestine and Israel Islam from

20:51

two thousand and sixteen, two thousand

20:53

and Twenty sore and talked and

20:55

to me about his work on

20:57

how Israel. Basically. Uses.

21:00

The. Occupied Territories as

21:02

a. Testing. Ground

21:04

for tools of war and

21:06

surveillance and what's going on

21:09

right now in Gaza. Any

21:11

also is the subject of

21:13

an interesting short documentary about

21:15

seeing a killer who opposes

21:18

Israel. Or it. Let's go to

21:20

everyone. Knows

21:26

headed to be talking to him. Anthony

21:28

Low and scenes was the author of

21:30

among other bucks, the Palace and Laboratory

21:32

or is he would sands in a

21:34

laboratory How Israel exports to technology of

21:36

Occupation. Around the world so. Can. You

21:39

give people an overview of how Israel

21:41

does export the technology of occupation around

21:43

the world. One of the

21:45

things that I investigate in his book

21:47

is that pretty much since Israel's birth

21:49

and Nineteen Forty Eight very soon after

21:51

that Israel are rarely saw the need

21:53

to make friends. Now with the new

21:55

nations, make friends have signs. Highly unusual,

21:57

but the way that they did that.

22:00

was trying to build a domestic arms

22:02

industry. Back then, obviously, it was pretty

22:04

basic weapons. But pretty much

22:06

from the mid to late 50s, they're already

22:08

selling weapons, including to Germany, West Germany then.

22:11

Fast forward to 1967, there's obviously

22:13

the Six-Day War. Israel takes over

22:15

huge amounts of territory of Palestine.

22:17

And really, the trajectory from then

22:19

to now, so close to 55, 60

22:21

years, is

22:23

that Israel has used the occupied

22:25

Palestinian territory to the testing ground

22:28

for a range of tools

22:30

and technologies to control Palestinians.

22:33

By doing so, they use it as a

22:35

very effective marketing tool. So they say to

22:37

many nations, and this happened before 1967, but

22:40

it's certainly accelerated since, even

22:43

nations that publicly were opposed to the

22:45

occupation, who would say, this is terrible,

22:47

you should end the occupation, Israel

22:49

has been very effective from

22:52

its perspective to

22:55

promote a way to control

22:57

so-called enemy populations. So we're talking

22:59

about South Africa during

23:01

apartheid, Guatemala in the 80s,

23:04

when they're literally committing genocide, Iran before

23:06

79. I mean, the list goes on and

23:08

on and on. And one of the reasons I wrote the book, which

23:11

obviously is more the historical part, though,

23:13

is that many people know about the

23:15

US role in backing autocracy around

23:17

the world since 1945. That's

23:19

more known, on the left at least. What's

23:21

far less known is that Israel often was doing

23:24

exactly the same thing, often in concert with the

23:26

US in many of the same countries, to the

23:28

point where, for example, in Chile after 1973, when

23:32

Pinochet takes over, at

23:35

various points, I have this in the

23:37

book, Declassified Documents, the US is saying

23:39

that Israel, in fact, is providing more

23:41

weapons to Pinochet than the Americans were

23:44

even. So the

23:46

so-called laboratory is what Israel is

23:49

doing in Palestine. And as a

23:51

way to promote what they

23:53

say is an effective way to control an

23:55

occupied population. Obviously, in the modern age, just

23:57

briefly, after 9-11, which

24:00

on paper had nothing to do with Israel, although

24:02

you could argue indirectly it did. There

24:05

was a massive explosion in Israel's defense sector

24:07

that they were saying to the world, you

24:09

want to fight a war on terror, so-called

24:13

war on terror, let us show you how to do it.

24:16

And in the last 24 years, Israel's

24:18

defense sector has soared. And

24:20

that is not really changing, I would argue, since October

24:22

7 either. You

24:25

refer to Israel's weapons industry

24:27

and surveillance industry as an

24:29

insurance policy. Can

24:31

you elaborate on that concept? So

24:33

I think this insurance policy, again, the

24:36

caveat has little bit of been what's happened since October 7,

24:38

but we can talk about that in a minute. But essentially

24:40

what I mean by that is even nations, after

24:42

1967, there were many nations

24:45

that, as I said, publicly opposed what

24:47

Israel was doing. You must give those

24:49

territory back, stock occupying Palestinians. But

24:52

the insurance policy, what Israel has been

24:54

selling weapons and surveillance tech to so

24:56

many countries for so long, that

24:59

those nations often were either less likely to

25:01

criticise Israel where it matters, like the UN.

25:03

And for example, often what

25:05

Israel has been doing, both during

25:07

Netanyahu's era, but certainly before, is

25:10

to almost use surveillance

25:12

tech and weapons as a way to get

25:15

more support at the UN for certain votes.

25:17

So obviously, if you look at most UN

25:19

votes, it's pretty much the entire world

25:21

on one side. This has been the case for years.

25:23

The entire world on one side. And

25:26

the other side is Israel, the

25:28

US, Palau, Micronesia,

25:30

and often Australia, shamefully,

25:32

my country. But

25:34

pretty much on the face of it, it seems

25:37

like the whole world's against Israel, at least at

25:39

the UN. But that's obviously not the reality. Putting

25:41

aside obviously the US as important role. It's

25:44

the fact that Israel has been selling, and I

25:46

calculate, no one even knows, by the way, how

25:48

many countries Israel has sold weapons to. I

25:51

calculate anywhere between 125 and 145 nations, which is the majority of

25:53

nations on the planet, have

25:58

bought some form of Israeli... weapons,

26:01

surveillance tech, repressive technology,

26:03

including I might add in the Arab

26:06

world. And it's

26:08

pretty clear, and this again was the

26:10

case before October 7, but since, no

26:12

Arab nation has actually truly cut ties

26:15

with Israel, and none of them will.

26:17

Yes, they've been critical. Yes, they've said what

26:19

Israel is doing is terrible. It should stop.

26:22

But let's be clear. None of them have

26:24

cut ties, and they won't. Why? Well,

26:26

today in the book, and I think this is proven correct

26:29

since October 7, all those

26:31

nations are talking about Saudi, UAE,

26:33

Bahrain, the list goes on. They

26:36

have many reasons for doing what they're doing. But

26:38

I think a key reason is they

26:40

are so desperate, and they have received

26:43

massive amounts of repressive technology from Israel

26:45

long before October 7. They

26:47

want to maintain a relationship with Israel to

26:49

get close to the US, and

26:51

that I think would be one key reason that

26:53

the Abraham Accords, these so-called normalization

26:55

deals that were struck at the end of

26:58

the Trump era, were nothing about peace. It

27:00

was about an arms deal between all those

27:02

nations in Israel. They got what they wanted.

27:04

Israel got so-called friendship. And

27:06

of course, all those nations are petrified of their own

27:09

people. I mean, look, if you look at what's

27:11

happened since October 7, most

27:14

of the Arab nations, where they're allowed to

27:17

protest or at least tried, a few Poles,

27:19

Arabs, or most Muslims, frankly, in all those

27:22

nations, they all fundamentally oppose their own government

27:24

deals with Israel. And the governments know that.

27:27

And they're all petrified of the Arab Spring

27:29

happening again. This is the Arab elites. To

27:32

me, it seems like Israel

27:34

has tried

27:37

to convince both itself and others that

27:39

they are increasingly welcomed in the Arab

27:41

Muslim world. But in fact, that's nonsense.

27:44

With Arab elites, they are. Yes,

27:46

there's increasing traffic between Dubai and

27:48

Tel Aviv. That's undeniably true. But

27:51

if you ask the majority of people in all those

27:53

Arab nations, and I think it has a lot to

27:55

do with Israeli repressive tech, which, as I say in

27:57

my book, they've been selling this stuff

28:00

for $1.5 million. for about a decade, talking

28:02

about phone hacking tools, surveillance technology. So

28:05

Israel is essentially claiming to be

28:07

the only democracy in the middle of the

28:10

job as these nonsense, but they're selling repressive

28:12

technology to other states to repress their own

28:14

people. And it's kind of

28:16

a house of cards. I think, I think

28:19

Israel's position and so-called security

28:21

is a house of cards long

28:23

before October 7th, I would argue.

28:26

And since October 7th, how have we

28:28

seen Israel put the Palestine laboratory into

28:30

action? You know, one of the things that happened

28:33

very quickly on October 7th was

28:36

during the Hamas attack was how easily,

28:38

obviously it took a lot of work

28:41

for Hamas to do this, but the

28:44

so-called security around Gaza

28:46

evaporated immediately. Hamas

28:48

was able to breach both the so-called

28:51

security barrier, the wall that I've been through many

28:53

times when I visited Gaza as a journalist in

28:56

the last 15 years, they

28:58

knocked out pretty much, they made Israel blind

29:00

essentially for 10 or 15 hours. And

29:04

you would think on the face of it, that

29:06

would mean that many countries would say,

29:08

why would we trust you,

29:11

Israel, to sell

29:13

us surveillance and repressive technology when

29:15

you yourself have not protected your

29:17

own people? And

29:20

I've seen no evidence of that. And what I mean by

29:22

that is that it's early days, we

29:24

don't know exactly what armed skills are going to happen

29:26

in the coming months and years, that's true. But

29:30

what we've seen in Gaza pretty much

29:32

since October 7, pretty much starting on

29:34

October 8th, Israel has

29:36

been testing huge amounts of weapons in

29:39

Gaza. I'm talking about

29:41

surveillance drones, so-called quadcopters, which

29:43

basically are killer drones, drones that kill

29:45

people with a weapon, robot

29:48

dogs, both American and Israeli

29:50

companies. I'm

29:53

talking about various other kinds of surveillance

29:55

tech, and they're using that

29:58

and trying to promote that globally. So there's

30:00

been two major arms fairs globally since

30:02

October 7. There's been many others, but

30:04

two major one. Paris late

30:06

last year and Singapore near me a

30:09

few months ago. And at

30:11

both those arms fairs, Israel had a large

30:13

presence, both as a state

30:15

and private Israeli defense company. And

30:18

they are promoting tools and technologies they

30:20

are using in Gaza openly, battle

30:23

tested. I mean, I use that word, but so do

30:25

they. Now, obviously, we don't

30:27

know exactly who's buying those weapons yet, but

30:29

you can be rest assured, as history shows,

30:31

that unless there is a

30:33

political or economic price for

30:36

Israel doing these actions, committing mass

30:39

slaughter in Gaza, these

30:41

weapons will continue to flow. There are many,

30:43

many nations that are very keen from

30:46

Cambodia to Vietnam to

30:49

Singapore, vast parts

30:51

of the Arab world. In countries,

30:54

I would argue, in Latin and South

30:56

America, that have been vocally against what

30:58

Israel is doing. History

31:00

would suggest they're very keen to still buy some

31:02

of that tech. So Aaron, what they've

31:05

been doing is they've been live testing weapons in

31:07

Gaza, promoting it often on social media. And this

31:09

is what I talk about in the book. There's

31:12

almost this feedback loop that Israel, in the

31:14

last 10 years, realized that

31:16

the way that they promoted themselves

31:18

globally wasn't working anymore. What

31:21

I mean by that is that Israel had

31:24

believed, with some justification, that

31:26

for many, many years, not that they controlled the

31:28

media, but they were able to shape the narrative

31:31

pretty effectively from their perspective. Of course, there were

31:33

always critics. Obviously, Palestinians who didn't

31:35

share that view. But if there was

31:37

a study I quote in the book, I think it was

31:39

a study of looking at

31:41

how many opinion pieces in the New York

31:43

Times, from 1970 to 2010, like 2% written

31:45

by Palestinians. I

31:48

mean, just an insane erasure of Palestinians.

31:50

That's changing a little bit. But

31:53

social media changes the game. So

31:55

Israel has got a whole army

31:57

of social media warriors. employed

32:00

by the state in Israel and globally, trying

32:03

to pump out propaganda. Now you could argue

32:05

how effective or not that has been since

32:08

October 7, I would argue not

32:10

particularly effective in

32:12

some circles. But the

32:15

caveat always I say to people is, yes,

32:17

for those of us on the left, Israel lost

32:19

the left years ago, except for

32:22

Germany, which is a whole weird, as you know,

32:24

exception to the rule. But

32:27

in many parts of the global right and

32:29

far right, Israel has never been more popular.

32:32

And that's in fact growing since October 7.

32:35

And as the right in Europe and elsewhere is

32:37

surging in support, I think we are mistaken

32:39

if we think that what Israel

32:42

is doing in Gaza, in some

32:44

circles, does not elicit more support

32:46

and solidarity. And the weapons

32:48

are a key part of that. And when

32:50

it comes to surveillance, like for

32:52

an average citizen in Gaza prior

32:55

to October 7, how

32:57

deeply surveilled are they by Israel? All

33:00

communication in and out of Gaza is monitored.

33:02

Now it doesn't mean every single conversation is

33:04

listened to. It's like the NSA, as we

33:06

know in the US, monitors every conversation, not

33:08

like every single call is listened to by,

33:10

you know, Joe Biden, of course, it doesn't

33:12

work that way. But every communication is

33:15

monitored and tracked. That's

33:17

done by a unit called 8200, which

33:19

is Israel's kind of NSA, essentially.

33:22

And so

33:24

all forms of communication, phone calls,

33:27

mobile cell phone calls, emails,

33:31

social media. If

33:33

a Garza wants to get in and

33:35

out of Gaza to go to education

33:37

outside, to go to medical care, just

33:39

to travel, there has

33:41

been massive amounts of surveillance done on

33:43

those individuals before they have to be

33:46

interviewed by an Israeli officer

33:48

at areas, which is the

33:51

border crossing between Israel and

33:53

Gaza. I've many friends

33:55

of mine in Gaza, some of whom are still there,

33:57

some of whom have got out, who

34:00

have got out since October 7, but

34:02

have talked about what that surveillance means,

34:04

that the information that Israel has on

34:06

an individual who has no connection with

34:08

terrorism or anything is extraordinary.

34:11

And that's because of both human intelligence,

34:13

Israel has, we don't really

34:15

know the numbers of people, but Israel has

34:17

over the years used a

34:20

number of Palestinians to spy on Palestinians. That's

34:22

not exactly a breaking news

34:25

story. Now, how many? We have no idea.

34:27

I don't think it's tens of thousands, but it's

34:29

a decent number. Although it's interesting, since October 7,

34:32

I would argue it's pretty clear that Israel is

34:35

operating fairly blind actually in

34:37

Gaza, despite spending insane amounts

34:39

of money on so-called

34:41

intelligence for years. So there are drones that

34:43

monitor Gaza 24-7 when I've been there over

34:45

the years. Many times you hear low level,

34:47

only see them in the sky. Some

34:50

of them are armed, some of them are not. And

34:54

since October 7, though, there's been a massive

34:56

expansion of this that, again,

34:58

I've been reporting on this and have friends of mine

35:00

who have seen this with their own eyes in Gaza,

35:03

a huge expansion of facial

35:05

recognition technology and biometric tools,

35:07

documenting and monitoring and recording

35:09

Palestinians, often when they're being

35:11

forcibly moved from point A

35:13

to point B, from the north

35:15

to the south, from Rafa to

35:17

somewhere else, God knows where. And

35:21

that information, like we're seeing increasingly in

35:24

the West Bank in the last years,

35:27

of a growing attempt to document

35:30

every single Palestinian citizen.

35:32

Now, what I mean document,

35:34

I mean building a profile of

35:37

that person. What do

35:39

they do? Where do they think? What

35:42

are they writing on social media? Where

35:45

do they want to go? And what Israel has

35:47

often done, both in the West Bank, although, of course,

35:49

Gaza is more of a field in the West Bank,

35:52

is often weaponize that information

35:55

to curtail people's freedom of

35:57

movement. So, for example, it's

35:59

not unusual. the West Bank and indeed I've heard

36:01

in Gaza too of Israel

36:03

trying to blackmail gay Palestinians or for

36:06

that matter someone who is not so-called

36:09

officially gay, you know, is a straight man married

36:11

to a woman, is having an

36:13

affair with a man for example or vice versa,

36:15

whatever the sexual orientation, Israel

36:18

will weaponise that and say,

36:20

it's happened many times, we

36:23

will expose this to your wife,

36:25

to your family unless

36:27

you spy for us and again

36:30

we don't know the numbers of people

36:32

who are essentially giving into that, many

36:34

people I know basically say FU and

36:37

they won't spy for Israel but

36:39

I'm sure some do because they're petrified of

36:41

being shamed in their own community. So Israel

36:45

grossly weaponises intelligence

36:48

against Palestinians which has been the case for

36:50

years, there was

36:52

evidence of this at least 15 years ago and I'm

36:55

sure it's happening, I know it's happening now. What

36:58

about the way that weapons

37:00

have been used against protesters

37:02

here protesting Israel's assault

37:05

on Gaza? One

37:07

of the relationships between Israel and the

37:09

US which has got some attention but

37:11

not nearly enough is after 9-11 there

37:14

was a push as

37:16

I said before by many in the

37:19

pro-Israel lobby and Israel to

37:22

try to sort of make the

37:24

Israeli way, so-called way of

37:26

dealing with trouble as in

37:31

Palestinian as

37:34

an example to how American police forces could

37:36

treat their own people. And

37:39

what I mean by that is American

37:42

police don't need to go to Israel to

37:44

learn to be racist. So

37:47

American police are going to be racist for

37:49

historical reasons, a range of reasons, they don't

37:51

need Israel for that. But what's happened after

37:53

9-11, a few years after

37:55

the ADL, the Anti-Defamation League

37:58

began these police training

38:00

tours basically between both countries. Many

38:04

police forces, senior police went to

38:06

Israel to spend time

38:08

with the police and the military to

38:10

learn what they claim was counter-terrorism techniques,

38:12

essentially. And there's

38:15

huge amounts of evidence, not just since

38:17

October 7 but before, of

38:20

American police forces. Again,

38:23

not every American police nanowoman has gone

38:25

to Israel, but many have. And

38:27

this program has continued. During COVID, it took a

38:29

bit of a break for obvious reasons because of

38:31

travel restrictions. But there was a

38:33

lot of internal debate, from

38:36

my understanding, within the ADL, which is, in

38:39

my view, a grossly extremist

38:41

organization that should not get any kind of credit

38:43

for documenting hate at all. But that's not how

38:45

most of the media views it. There are a

38:47

number of ADL members who have left, staff

38:50

members who have left in the last years, right,

38:52

as you guys know. Because

38:54

of this training, because of this unhealthy

38:57

relationship, and yet, this

38:59

training continues. So

39:02

it's hard to say that every single police

39:04

force that's repressing peaceful

39:06

protesters in America got trained by Israel,

39:08

but some certainly have. And

39:12

it's not just the training, it's

39:14

also the ideology. It's about saying

39:16

that, when you go to

39:18

Israel, and you

39:20

spend time as a policeman

39:22

or woman training with Israeli

39:24

police, well, a lot of people, on

39:27

this podcast, they would know, but the

39:29

wider population might not know, is

39:31

that Israeli police, and border police, particularly,

39:33

have a brutal record of abusing Palestinians.

39:35

I mean, I'm not even talking about

39:37

even in Palestine, I'm talking about within

39:40

Israel itself. Forget about Palestine for

39:42

a minute. So

39:45

that kind of police exchange, it's,

39:47

by the way, it's not that's happening with the US.

39:49

There is, Israel is training

39:51

police in Kashmir, in

39:55

many other countries. This again is how

39:57

the laboratory works. Israel is selling its...

40:00

to me the danger

40:02

of that and the awareness I think that

40:04

more and more Americans are now having, especially

40:07

since October 7, the brutal

40:09

crackdown on many peaceful protesters in your

40:11

country, I think

40:14

is showing people that Israel is not the

40:16

model we want to follow. Now,

40:19

we say that, but

40:21

many other nations disagree. And the one

40:23

I focus on the book just briefly

40:25

is India because I think India is

40:27

the biggest country in the world, the

40:30

largest population in the world. Modi

40:32

is about to get a third term. He's

40:34

increasingly Hindu fundamentalist leader who wants

40:36

to, well, there's 200

40:39

million Muslims in India and there is a

40:41

real attempt to isolate and

40:43

target them. There are regular pogroms against

40:45

them and the relationship between India and

40:47

Israel today very much reminds

40:49

me, as I say in the book, of Israel

40:52

and South Africa back in the day. This

40:54

is a defense relationship, but it's also

40:57

an ideological relationship where they share,

40:59

obviously, one's a Hindu nation, one's

41:01

a Jewish nation. But

41:03

there is an understanding that as

41:05

an ethno-national estate, we need to behave

41:08

in a certain way. And that's the kind of

41:10

training that American police are getting in Israel when

41:12

they go there. There was also this

41:14

incident at Columbia where

41:16

students think that they were

41:19

sprayed with skunk water. I don't know if you

41:21

saw. Yeah, I did. Look,

41:24

I can't say much beyond what I saw

41:26

in the reports. I mean, what people probably

41:29

might not know is that that is a

41:31

very common tactic of Israeli

41:35

forces in the West Bank

41:37

to go after peaceful protesters,

41:39

other Jewish protesters or Palestinians.

41:42

And I've seen it happen. I mean, I've

41:44

lived for many years in Palestine and I've

41:47

seen it with my own eyes how this

41:49

works, that it's a so-called crowd control technique.

41:51

Again, something which can be

41:53

exported to other areas. And it's pretty

41:56

clear in the last

41:58

few months that although this is a That

42:00

was the happening. Under the under the

42:02

Biden administration there is a growing. Interesting.

42:05

Even. More. To militarize

42:07

the American police which is

42:10

deeply disturbing and there's a

42:12

growing it's him to find

42:14

ways to like happened in

42:16

the Nineteen sixties again student

42:18

protests against Vietnam. To infiltrate

42:20

these protests against the genocide

42:22

in Gaza. And.

42:25

I don't think it will work understood from a

42:27

nickel become so they're in for try as I

42:29

don't doubt that. second. Who. Knows how

42:31

many I'm sure there are. Good

42:35

luck trying to him. And he says the

42:37

same logic right where they're trying to ban

42:39

ticked off in America because some politicians worry

42:41

that American young people suddenly interested in Palestine.

42:43

let's ban the at that the game information

42:46

on a nice try guys. Good luck with

42:48

that. I'm a set of it's laughable. And.

42:50

Yet dangerous on not a blind defender.

42:53

Tick tock tick tock is problematic for

42:55

a thousand residents. But the idea that

42:57

you would. Try. To ban

42:59

and at because you're worried that

43:01

a young Americans are engaged in.

43:04

Concerned. By mass slaughter in

43:06

Gaza the seems like assault the wrong way to

43:08

deal with a problem. When. It comes

43:10

to the corporations involved in the past laboratory

43:13

who who are some the major players in

43:15

and who are some firms that. Who's.

43:18

Bob and my surprise people. Are much

43:20

of the first example surprise table but one

43:22

of the he has got a bit of

43:24

press. Similar seamounts is something could project nimbus

43:26

with. some of your viewers will have may

43:28

heard about. This is a project that was

43:30

launched his years ago. With. Google

43:33

and Amazon. Snc

43:35

providing cloud services to Israel, including

43:37

the military. This

43:39

existed before October seven

43:41

and is very very

43:44

concerning questions around. Those.

43:46

Companies involvements it since

43:48

October seven because Israel

43:50

has been. using.

43:54

Artificial intelligence warfare against

43:56

the Palestinian population in

43:58

Gaza. Good. Goal and

44:00

Amazon directly complicit in those

44:03

potential war crimes. Helens here.

44:05

Obviously. A large

44:07

American company. surveillance coming with a huge

44:10

global rates. Has.

44:12

Partnered with the Israeli government. Should decide

44:14

within less than Amazon and Google are

44:17

some your views will know this. There

44:19

has been massive protests within those companies.

44:22

Against. What? They

44:25

buses are doing. Building.

44:27

The connections. There's. Also, a

44:29

growing high but swain Silicon Valley

44:31

in the Us and Israel mrs

44:33

happening before October Seven, but it's

44:35

actually Scylla since. That's.

44:39

Israel. Economically is. Obviously

44:42

taken a hit to an extent

44:44

because they're in war and they

44:46

are spending insane amounts of money

44:48

on on the war in Gaza.

44:51

Many. Many Silicon Valley investors

44:53

are increasingly same. A

44:56

viable path to supporting Israeli

44:58

defence companies. Isn't

45:00

saying before October? Seven Men Fact, it's increasing.

45:03

Another company which is an Israeli one

45:06

that has influence in the Us. his

45:08

elbow Elbert is Israel's biggest defense company.

45:10

Very involved in the war in Gaza

45:12

amongst other places because there are L

45:15

but surveillance towers along the Us Mexico

45:17

border. That's been the case for a

45:19

number of years. And started

45:21

during a bomber, it continued during

45:23

Trump and finished during fine with,

45:26

I think, shows just as a

45:28

brief aside that. This

45:30

is really bi partisan in the

45:32

Us. that yes. I

45:35

think Trump's potential. Immigration.

45:37

Policies disturbed me greatly but it's all

45:40

like by Than in the last three

45:42

years has had a liberal wonderful open

45:44

border poll To let's be clear in

45:46

the sec what Biden has been doing

45:48

is deepening that hi tech surveillance that

45:50

was started during a bomb and continued

45:52

during Trump's I just as as as

45:54

to further that Barack Obama back when

45:56

Biden was desperate to get. believe

45:59

the more dollars the Ukraine proxy war and

46:01

billions of dollars more for Israel. He

46:03

basically agreed to accept all of

46:05

Trump's anti-immigrant policies just to

46:08

win Republican support. And then the deal collapsed because

46:10

Trump, Trump didn't want to let Biden be more

46:12

anti-immigrant than him. So that deal collapsed, but Biden

46:15

throws rhetoric about respect to immigrants is undermined

46:17

it. I

46:19

agree. And it's worth saying also in 2020, in

46:21

the last, in your last

46:24

election cycle, that there are many

46:26

of these private contractors who work

46:29

on the board, including Elvis, who

46:32

in fact, were giving more money to the Democrats than

46:34

the Republicans. Now, how that's going to play out this

46:36

year, we'll have to wait and see. But

46:38

I think that because, as you rightly say,

46:41

Aaron, all these companies know

46:43

it's not going to make a huge difference

46:45

who wins on this issue in November. I

46:47

mean, I would argue that Trump's immigration policies

46:49

might be worse, but nonetheless, the brutality will

46:51

continue regardless of who's going to win. And

46:56

these American corporations, Google,

46:58

Amazon, Palantir and others are

47:00

so deeply complicit and I

47:02

think, frankly, are open to

47:05

massive boycott campaigns. No one could say, how

47:07

do you boycott Google? It's not

47:09

easy. Google is sort of everywhere as

47:11

is Amazon in a way. But

47:13

I think there is a real importance

47:15

to make people aware that you have

47:18

all these companies, major companies

47:20

that are so deeply complicit in what

47:22

Israel is doing and I think it's

47:24

one interesting point is finally that in

47:26

the contract of Project Nimbus, it's written

47:28

into the contract that even

47:30

if there is an attempt to try

47:32

to boycott those companies, the

47:35

contract would still continue. It's

47:37

like a little clause written in the

47:39

contract. Now, that almost exactly

47:42

you could say smart. Yes, from their perspective. I

47:44

mean, I would say in the end, that won't

47:47

work, not tomorrow or next week, but years down

47:49

the track. But look, I

47:51

think what you'll find is that as Israel

47:54

and I think this has slightly changed since October

47:56

7, I mean, let's be clear, the headwinds in

47:59

some countries. still remains very pro-Israel. There's no

48:01

doubt about that. But you will see

48:03

in the coming months and years, I don't doubt that,

48:05

some countries will impose arms in Bago. It won't be

48:08

the US, of course. It won't be the UK. It

48:10

won't be Australia. Some countries will. And

48:14

it is possible, I think, that

48:16

some countries, including maybe in Western Europe, impose

48:18

sanctions. I mean, Belgium, for example, has talked

48:20

in the last month. Belgium is

48:22

not a massively powerful country, but it is

48:24

a Western European state talking

48:26

about potentially imposing sanctions

48:29

on Israel. That was reported in the

48:31

Israeli press last month. I

48:34

think Israel is well aware of these

48:36

potential headwinds, which is even more reason

48:38

why they're going to be looking for

48:40

investment from Silicon Valley and elsewhere in

48:43

years ahead. And it's why I would argue

48:45

that their arms industry, which the latest figures

48:47

we have, just finally, with 2022, we

48:49

haven't got the figures from 23 yet. 12

48:53

and 1,500,000 US, massive,

48:55

the highest by a mile ever. I'm almost positive

48:57

last year is going to be more. And

49:00

some of that, though not all, was coming

49:03

after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, where

49:05

a lot of European nations

49:07

flocked to Israel, saying, please,

49:09

please, please, sell us all

49:11

your missile defense shields and

49:13

various other surveillance tech.

49:15

And Israel was happy to do so. And

49:19

I've seen no indication, by the way,

49:21

since October 7 that that has changed

49:23

from those European states at all, none.

49:26

What is Israel's goal in this attack

49:28

on Gaza, this war on Gaza, this

49:31

genocidal war? And

49:34

to hear the rest of the

49:36

interview, please go to usefulidiotspodcast.com. That

49:41

was great. Very cool. And once

49:43

again, Anteolomatine's book, which Katie is holding

49:45

up, is called The Palestine Laboratory, How

49:47

Israel Exports the Technology of

49:49

Occupation Around the World. Yeah,

49:52

that's great. And definitely check out

49:54

the extended interview. If you're not already

49:56

subscribers, you should become subscribers because the

49:58

extended interview really fascinating and

50:01

he talks about his experience in Gaza.

50:03

And it's also, we'll also put a link to

50:05

the documentary that he's featured in. Which

50:08

is called Not in My

50:10

Name and it

50:13

aired in Australia, got a big reception. Yeah.

50:15

And it's available around the world too. Well,

50:18

he continues in a fine tradition of just

50:21

really brave, insightful

50:23

Australians, Julian Assange, Caitlin

50:26

Johnstone, John Pilger. Sure.

50:29

R.I.P. Kylie Minogue, you could

50:31

argue, you know, is in

50:33

that tradition. I mean, the crocodile Dundee guy.

50:35

Paul Hogan, absolutely. Yeah. But thank you, Australia,

50:37

for all you've given us. And

50:40

thank you to our audience for tuning

50:43

in. Our website is uciliitiuspodcast.com to support

50:45

the show. We really appreciate your support.

50:47

You keep us going. We have a

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limited offer going on. It's

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a special deal flying off the digital shelves where

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for one full year of Useful Idiots.

51:01

It's a hot deal. Take advantage while you can. And we'll

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see you next time. Bye everybody. Bye, Ron. Thanks

51:09

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51:12

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