Toby interviews political scholar and bestselling author of One Nation Under Trump Norm Ornstein. We talk about how our country ended up politically in the place it did in this episode of "Oh Great, What Now?" - the version of the show recorded without a live studio audience.

As mentioned during the episode, Norm also helps run the Matthew Ornstein Memorial Foundation, dedicated to furthering mental health care and urban debate. You can find out more or support it at mornstein.org.