0:00

My name is Ian

0:02

Urbina. I've reported on some pretty

0:05

mind-blowing stories, but nothing

0:07

like what happens at sea. If they got within 800 meters,

0:10

that is when we would fire warning shots. Murder,

0:13

slavery, human trafficking, and staggering

0:16

environmental crimes.

0:17

Men have told me that they've been beaten with stingray tails,

0:19

with chains. If you really want to understand

0:22

crime, start where the law of the land ends,

0:24

the outlaw Available now

0:27

on CBC Listen and everywhere you get

0:29

your podcasts.

0:31

This is a CBC Podcast.

0:34

If you're not from Saskatchewan, like me,

0:37

you learn pretty quickly that people in this province

0:40

use a lot of slang. Hoodies

0:42

are called bunny hugs. Gravel roads

0:45

are grids. A two-four is

0:47

a case of beer. But lately,

0:49

there's one term I've been thinking about

0:52

a lot. The North Forty.

0:56

It means the far side of the farm. An

0:58

unused piece of land, off the beaten

1:01

path. In

1:03

a farming province like this one, it's

1:05

common to come across these remote, secluded

1:07

places.

1:09

Pastures, sloughs, gravel

1:12

pits. Places where you

1:14

can be alone. Places

1:16

where you can simply vanish.

1:20

It could well describe the place where Sherry

1:22

Furtuck was last seen. I

1:27

just can't believe that she would just disappear.

1:29

Like if somebody tried to take her, she

1:31

would have had to have fought. There was no paper on

1:33

the ground, there was no articles of clothing, there

1:35

was no blood or anything around.

1:38

After a few weeks and months, you

1:41

know, you just, you know that she's

1:44

not, there's something, something went wrong and she's not

1:46

coming back.

1:51

I'm Alicia Bridges, and this is

1:53

Episode One of The Pit.

2:00

Winter in Saskatchewan feels like it never

2:03

ends. The freezing dry weather

2:05

can really get to you. For half

2:08

of the year the temperature bounces between

2:10

zero and minus 30 degrees Celsius.

2:12

On this particular day in

2:15

March of 2018 it's cold

2:17

but it's also blindingly sunny. A perfect

2:20

day by Saskatchewan standards to

2:23

drive out to see Julianne

2:24

Sirotsky. I'm

2:26

with another reporter Victoria Din.

2:28

We've been working together in the

2:30

same newsroom for a couple of years now and

2:33

when Sherry's story came up we both wanted

2:36

to find out more about how someone could

2:38

just up and disappear like that. We

2:40

weren't the only ones looking for answers. Sherry's

2:43

mum Julianne was doing the same.

2:48

So we pulled her up.

2:50

Well I'm doing as well as can be expected.

2:52

So Julianne I'm thinking of maybe doing

2:55

kind of a broader story

2:57

kind of delving into who Sherry

2:59

was. Would you be interested and maybe maybe

3:02

sharing her story? Yeah

3:04

probably I could do that. Yeah if I

3:06

were to come out and speak to you in person would

3:08

that be a possibility? Yeah that's

3:10

a possibility. That might be easier than we

3:12

can just have a conversation. Yeah.

3:17

So email is hi this

3:19

is Natalie.

3:23

We get some directions and hit the road. This

3:26

is the first time we're meeting Julianne in person.

3:28

We're going to Julianne's farm in the middle of nowhere

3:31

or at least it seems that way.

3:45

Our

3:53

vehicle creeps up to a small white bungalow

3:55

on the edge of the Swarovski property.

3:58

Julianne has lived and worked here for more than 50

4:00

years. It's about 15 kilometers

4:03

east of the town of Keniston, Saskatchewan.

4:05

The

4:06

nearest big city is Saskatoon, and

4:08

that's over an hour drive away.

4:11

Julianne is expecting

4:14

us.

4:15

As we reach the steps, she pops open

4:17

the door and invites us in.

4:19

So I actually

4:22

am not in the farming business anymore. Thank

4:24

goodness.

4:26

Her kitchen looks typical of a Saskatchewan

4:29

farmhouse. Maple wood cupboards, tiled

4:32

floors, family

4:33

photos everywhere. It's cozy.

4:35

The TV is on faintly in another room.

4:38

It helps drown the silence. And

4:40

it makes sense, because Julianne lives

4:42

out here alone. At

4:48

this time, it's been a little more than two

4:50

years since Sherry disappeared. And

4:52

as Julianne talks to us, she seems

4:55

beaten down, exhausted, and

4:57

it's understandable because of where

4:59

we're sitting at this kitchen table. This

5:02

is where she saw her daughter, Sherry Fertup,

5:05

for the last time.

5:08

Yeah, it is tough. When it's your

5:10

own child, it's very tough. And

5:14

kind of when it's a senseless disappearance,

5:18

it's hard to get it kind

5:21

of wrapped around your brain.

5:26

And the biggest hold back is

5:28

there's no body. You

5:31

know, like Sherry hasn't been found,

5:33

and who knows where she

5:35

is.

5:51

Julianne is a petite woman. She

5:54

needs a chair to reach a stack of photos on top

5:56

of her fridge.

5:56

You

6:00

want to know what to do? Yeah,

6:03

and this is Sherry. This

6:06

is my family. Sherry,

6:10

Linda, Michelle, Darrin,

6:12

and Tika. So these are all in your family?

6:15

Those are my kids, yeah. Okay. So she's

6:17

one of five. She's one of five, yeah. Is she like

6:19

one of the youngest? She's the oldest. The oldest.

6:22

Yeah, she's the oldest.

6:24

These photos of Sherry are very different

6:26

from the one we're used to seeing. The

6:28

one that police used when Sherry first went missing.

6:31

The one that appears in news feeds when

6:33

her name is brought up. As

6:36

far as pictures of missing persons go, it does

6:38

the job. It's

6:40

crisp and clear. It shows exactly

6:42

what Sherry looks like. She has

6:45

short, soft, brown hair with a hint

6:47

of grey. Her eyes

6:49

are dark under metal rinsed glasses. She's

6:52

wearing a white polo shirt. But

6:54

this photograph makes her look uncomfortable.

6:57

A little cold.

6:59

She's smiling with just the tiniest corner

7:01

of her mouth. It's a photo

7:03

that is easily forgotten. And

7:06

this is why Victoria and I wanted

7:08

to find out more about Sherry. Julianne

7:15

shows us family photos that reveal a different

7:17

side of Sherry.

7:19

That's Sherry and Greg, and that's Lucas when

7:21

he was a baby, I believe,

7:23

maybe, at his christening. Yeah, because

7:24

they're wearing cresarges. Yeah.

7:29

Flipping through this pile, I can

7:31

see that Sherry was a wife, a mother,

7:33

a sister, a friend.

7:37

Julianne lights up when she talks

7:39

about her family.

7:42

This is my sister, Gladys. That's my oldest

7:44

sister, Lillie. My

7:47

next sister, Josie, and she's next

7:50

Grace. And that's

7:53

Michelle, my daughter, Michelle. Well,

7:55

that's just part of my family. Is

7:57

it a very big family? I come from a family of

7:59

three.

7:59

12. When

8:08

Sherry disappeared she wasn't living on the

8:10

farm. She was in Saskatoon. At 51

8:14

she was married, a mother of three and

8:16

a new grandmother. But she would still

8:18

drive out to the Keniston area every

8:20

single day to work at the gravel pit

8:23

near the family farm. Sometimes

8:25

Sherry would get help from her husband Greg Fertuck

8:28

or her brother Darren Sirotsky.

8:31

And like clockwork Sherry would stop

8:33

by to visit her mum Julianne for

8:35

lunch and supper. Sometimes

8:37

Darren would join them. It was routine.

8:41

She hauled mostly for the RM of Rosedale.

8:43

RM means rural municipality. It's

8:46

like a local government.

8:48

On the roads there and some

8:50

into a project in the town there and

8:52

some through the town

8:53

and yeah that's

8:56

basically it.

8:57

You load up, you go dump, you

8:59

come back, you load up. She was a worker.

9:02

Well she usually stopped and had

9:04

supper at supper time and then she'd come home

9:06

and shower and

9:08

flop into bed.

9:15

On December 7th 2015

9:17

that routine changes. At

9:20

first everything seems normal. Sherry

9:22

leaves for work from her Saskatoon home

9:24

at 9.30 in the morning. She

9:26

works at the gravel pit until noon. Then

9:29

she stops by the family farm to have lunch

9:31

with Julianne. Sherry says goodbye

9:34

at 1.30. Sherry

9:38

walks back to her semi truck parked outside

9:40

on the gravel driveway. It's unusually

9:43

warm. Her coat is in the truck. Later

9:46

the police would describe her as wearing a gray

9:49

sweatshirt, sweatpants and white

9:51

sneakers. She leaves the farm

9:53

and heads back to the pit. She guides

9:55

her heavy vehicle back down the empty highway

9:58

past abandoned farmhouses and and expansive

10:00

fields. But

10:02

by the time evening rolls around, Julianne

10:05

starts to worry.

10:06

I've been on her cell phone,

10:09

I don't know how many times that day trying to

10:11

get hold of her and she never did answer. And

10:13

I found that very strange because at

10:15

some point she at the gravel bit,

10:18

she usually didn't have a

10:20

reception there, but

10:22

she still would have reception at some time

10:24

on the road or whatever. And she never got

10:27

back to me. And then, of

10:29

course at that time of the year, you know where the days

10:31

are. And she didn't

10:34

show up for supper and I thought, what

10:36

the heck's going on? But anyway,

10:38

I didn't go out and look

10:40

that night because I don't like going out

10:42

at night, especially into a gravel

10:45

pit where, I

10:47

didn't know what I was going to find. So

10:50

I didn't go out until about eight o'clock the next

10:52

morning and it was still kind of dark. And

10:55

I had her dog with me. And when we got

10:57

to the pit, oh my God, he started to

10:59

whine and cried because he recognized

11:01

her dog. 51 year

11:03

old Sherry Furtuck was last seen on December

11:05

7th, 2015. She had lunch

11:08

with her family. She

11:09

hasn't been seen since. Her

11:11

semi was found abandoned the following day

11:13

at a gravel pit near Keniston.

11:14

Her coat, keys and

11:17

phone all inside. Family,

11:20

friends and police extensively

11:22

searched the area for Furtuck. No

11:25

charges have been laid.

11:27

Everyone in Keniston is baffled.

11:30

How could Sherry just disappear?

11:37

Coffee

11:42

roe is another term you'll hear a lot around

11:44

here. It's a nickname for a place where people

11:47

routinely meet and chat.

11:49

In Keniston, you'll find coffee roe

11:51

at the local Chinese restaurant. About

11:53

twice a day, the tables are packed with people catching

11:56

up and gossiping. Since we're looking

11:58

for people to talk to, Everyone in

12:00

the area tells us we'll find them here. We

12:03

arrived just before lunch.

12:05

Within minutes, a man sits down at the table

12:07

next to us.

12:09

It's Alan Kerpin. If

12:11

you know about Canadian politics, you'll know

12:13

the name.

12:14

I actually served two terms in Ottawa

12:16

as a member of parliament and two terms in Regina

12:19

as an MLA. But my roots are

12:21

in the farm. My grandpa came here 100

12:23

years ago or more and started

12:26

farming. And then my dad and now myself and now

12:28

our son is farming.

12:29

Turns out, Sherry Fertuck is Alan's

12:32

cousin.

12:32

In a small town, everybody knows

12:34

everybody, right? And our kids

12:37

didn't really fit into the same age category.

12:39

Sherry's a little older than our kids were, but you

12:42

watch them grow up and you watch them go to school.

12:45

It's all part of being in a small community. You

12:48

can't really explain it unless you live with one.

12:52

He's right. Keniston is small.

12:55

There's pretty much one main street with all the basics.

12:58

A post office, a church, a school,

13:00

and a little gas station that

13:03

also serves as a grocery store. There's

13:07

a five and a half meter tall snowman at the

13:09

edge of town. It's sign

13:11

declares Keniston as the Blizzard capital

13:13

of Saskatchewan. Sherry

13:19

grew up in Keniston, so it seems like

13:21

everyone here knows her. People

13:24

say she was a friendly face around town. They

13:26

used to have a laugh with her and chat about football.

13:29

And she especially loved the rough riders. That's

13:32

Saskatchewan's team in the Canadian Football League.

13:35

They're insanely popular.

13:37

But there was one thing about Sherry that everyone

13:40

noticed.

13:41

She was not unhealthy at all. She was a big strong

13:43

healthy girl.

13:44

She was a very strong

13:47

masculine type woman. Like she was not a

13:51

little person. She was a big strong woman.

13:54

She was large but very

13:56

strong. Like a very strong

13:58

person.

13:59

came up over and over again.

14:02

Here's her childhood friend, Florence Greek.

14:06

The job that she did and stuff like that, she

14:08

was quite muscular and stuff like that. So she

14:10

was very strong. And when

14:13

I was growing up, we mouth-tied, so you had

14:15

by hand, so your arm muscles would get strong. So

14:18

like that kind of stuff. And she'd helped her dad with, he

14:20

had a rock crushing gravel

14:23

business, so she would help work with the crusher

14:24

and stuff like that. So you would build muscle

14:27

and stuff like that. So she was stronger.

14:31

When Sherry turned 18, she got her semi-truck

14:33

driver's license. Her father, Michael,

14:36

wanted her to help out with M&S Ready Mix. That's

14:39

the family concrete and gravel crushing business.

14:42

But she also had other plans. She was

14:44

good at debating. A friend tells us

14:47

she had aspirations to become a lawyer. But

14:49

when things didn't work out at university, she

14:52

returned home. She came back

14:54

to the family business, hauling and crushing

14:56

gravel. And she was good at it. When

14:59

her dad died in 2010, Sherry

15:02

took over the business with her brother, Darren. Sherry

15:05

looked after most of the business transactions

15:08

and bids, and Darren looked after

15:10

crushing the gravel.

15:12

It was a sibling-run company. There

15:14

were ups and there were downs. But

15:17

they worked together for decades, right

15:19

up until the day Sherry vanished. Hi,

15:22

I'm Damon Fairless, host of Hunting Warhead, from

15:26

CBC Podcasts

15:28

and the Norwegian newspaper

15:28

VG. Hunting Warhead follows a global team of

15:31

police and journalists as they attempt to

15:33

dismantle a massive network of predators on the dark web. Winner

15:37

of the grand prize for best investigative reporting

15:40

at the New York festivals, and recommended by the Guardian,

15:43

Vulture, and the Globe and Mail, you

15:45

can find the best of the best of the

15:47

best of the best. The Guardian, Vulture, and

15:49

the Globe and Mail, you can find Hunting Warhead

15:52

on CBC Listen, or wherever you get

15:54

your podcasts. Feeling like your

15:56

internal communications are holding your teams

15:58

back from giving your customers

15:59

best possible experience, you can say

16:02

goodbye to the internal chaos and clutter with

16:04

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16:06

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16:08

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16:11

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16:16

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16:23

slash connect today.

16:27

In November of 2018, we

16:30

go back to the last spot where Sherry was known

16:32

to be,

16:33

the pit.

16:34

But we need some help finding it. People

16:37

around town tell us John McJanet owns

16:39

the gravel pit and the land around it, so

16:42

we look him up in the phone book. It's his

16:44

son who answers the phone, who also

16:46

goes by John McJanet, and he's

16:48

the one who takes us to the pit. I

16:53

think

16:55

there is no way we would have known to

16:58

come all the way

16:59

down here. No. And

17:01

I think we would have been too concerned about

17:04

driving onto the private property anyway.

17:06

John leads us down a valley to a site next

17:08

to a small creek. It's off of

17:11

the highway, about 15 kilometres

17:13

east of the Swarovski farm. We

17:15

drive onto the property, past large gravel

17:17

piles, and down a winding road

17:19

covered in

17:20

overgrown grass. There's

17:22

a small herd of deer watching us, and

17:24

we stop at a lower clearing surrounded by gravel.

17:27

Hi John. Sorry,

17:29

we were just a bit worried we were going to get

17:31

the... Yeah, we don't know if our driver would make it. Okay,

17:34

no problem. To Victoria. Nice

17:36

to meet you. I'm Alicia.

17:38

Nice to meet you. Approximately where the truck was found, where

17:40

her truck was found. Just right where we

17:42

parked right now? Just about right on the

17:44

spot, yeah.

17:46

In a few weeks, it will be three years since

17:48

Sherry's disappearance, and

17:50

the anniversary is on all of our minds.

17:53

John says he still thinks about it. He

17:56

was one of the first people Julianne called

17:58

when she realised Sherry was missing. seen.

18:01

Okay, originally in the

18:03

morning, first thing in the morning, Julian

18:05

had called some neighbors and called my uncle

18:08

and his farm is just about

18:10

a mile south of here and

18:12

said that Sherry hadn't come home

18:15

that night and she was wondering if we'd

18:17

seen her at the gravel pits the day before

18:19

or if we'd go down and take a look and see.

18:23

So we came down and essentially

18:25

what we found was the payloader

18:27

that they were using to load the gravel into the truck and

18:30

the truck were parked here.

18:31

And what was the feeling like when

18:33

you came here and you saw an empty truck?

18:35

Well, originally we'd hoped that

18:39

somebody picked her up and she went

18:41

back home and

18:43

just forgotten to tell her mom that

18:45

she was safe somewhere but just

18:47

hadn't notified anybody that

18:50

she wasn't going to be at the truck or at her

18:52

mom's place.

19:00

The wind is howling as we stand outside.

19:03

A light layer of fresh snow swells

19:05

around the ground. It's bitterly

19:08

cold, about minus 20. John

19:10

says it reminds him of what it was like that

19:12

day. We got a medical condition that got disoriented

19:15

and so we

19:17

walked around the perimeter looking for footprints,

19:20

tracks, anything that was out of the ordinary

19:22

and didn't see anything. And then later that

19:24

day the RCMP were on

19:27

site and closed

19:29

this scene and had teams

19:31

of professionals search and rescue people come

19:33

out and comb this area quite

19:36

well.

19:40

It's just it's odd because there was no

19:43

trace of a scuffle. There was no nothing.

19:46

That's Dennis Powder. No evidence

19:49

at all around there that

19:52

alluded to her being

19:54

abducted or well who knows I

19:56

guess what.

19:57

Dennis is a member of the Keniston Volunteer

20:01

He remembers receiving a text from the Royal

20:03

Canadian Mounted Police, or the RCMP,

20:06

and they asked to help out at the pit. So

20:09

you get to the gravel pit after you get this

20:11

text and you find out it's Sherry for a check.

20:14

Like, what are you thinking? Like, wow, what happened?

20:16

You know,

20:18

everybody's, of course, her poor mother is

20:21

worried sick, where's her daughter, you know, it's

20:23

like a lot of emotions, I guess,

20:25

running through your head. You

20:28

know, what are we going to find, you know, or are

20:30

we going to find her, or what, you

20:33

know.

20:38

It was a situation Dennis had never faced

20:40

before, someone disappearing

20:42

so close to home, and the RCMP

20:44

put him to work right away.

20:48

I was

20:51

asked to run

20:53

the loader to dig out

20:56

some of the piles to see if we could find her. How

20:59

did you do that? Was it sort of,

21:01

did the police have directions for you, or

21:04

did you kind of just have to

21:06

sort of do it the best way you thought?

21:08

How did you sort of do that?

21:09

Yeah, they

21:12

wanted us to do a certain way, and, you

21:14

know, of course be gentle in what

21:17

we were doing. If she was

21:19

in there, it would have been too late already

21:23

to save her, but it was more of a recovery

21:26

situation by then. So

21:30

being as gentle as I could, and dumping

21:33

it, you know, as gently as I could into

21:35

another pile while

21:37

the RCMP watched to see

21:40

if there was anything in there, anything at all,

21:43

I guess.

21:44

Were you worried during that process

21:47

about what you might find?

21:49

Yes, I was worried about, you

21:52

know, if I accidentally

21:56

dug her up and

21:58

cut off her arm or something.

21:59

or a leg or something, you know, that wouldn't have been very

22:03

fun either. So...

22:05

And during this time, what was the atmosphere

22:07

like in the villager?

22:09

Everybody couldn't believe

22:12

that, you know, somebody from a little

22:14

town like this went missing, and, you know,

22:17

you can't find her. Still, to this day,

22:19

I mean, everybody's, you

22:21

know, what happened to her, right?

22:33

Anything could have happened. If

22:35

someone took Sherry, did they have a gun? Did

22:37

they trick her into getting

22:39

in their vehicle? Was there more than one

22:41

person?

22:42

What happened to Sherry Furtoke?

22:51

Standing in the middle of the gravel pit now, it's

22:53

isolated. I'd hate to be out here alone.

22:57

It must have felt normal for Sherry. This

23:00

was her office. Looking around,

23:02

I can see more animal footprints than

23:04

tire tracks

23:05

in the snow. It's clear

23:07

not many people come here. Not many

23:09

people have a reason to. They're

23:13

not here anymore.

23:17

John McJanet points to his pasture from

23:20

where we're standing. It's close. There's

23:23

a lot of land I got around here.

23:25

Farm fields, as far as the eye can see. The

23:28

nearest house is on a hill in the distance.

23:31

It's about a kilometer away along the highway.

23:34

And John says it's hard to see what's going on down

23:36

here.

23:36

Except for, you know, if you

23:38

were on that farmland over there, you could see here, but

23:41

not very... At that time of the year, there

23:43

wouldn't be too many people driving

23:46

around on that side.

23:48

If Sherry was in here, like, would you be

23:50

able to see her walking around

23:52

from the highway, do you think?

23:53

If you had

23:55

good eyesight, yeah, you could probably see her if she

23:57

was walking around. I mean, and in life...

24:00

unless you made an

24:02

actual note to look to your

24:04

right. I mean,

24:07

most people when they're driving down the highway are just

24:09

watching down the highway and drive right by and

24:11

take no notice

24:12

of what's going on down here. Do

24:14

you

24:14

think it's possible that someone could have

24:16

driven in here, something could have happened

24:19

without anybody noticing?

24:20

Is that your thought? I mean,

24:22

there's very few neighbors around. Unless

24:26

you were actually sitting on the highway watching.

24:29

I

24:31

mean, anything could happen down here that

24:34

nobody would see.

24:40

From dawn till dusk, Sherry

24:43

came out to this spot every single day, loading

24:46

and hauling gravel. Everyone

24:48

in the area had a sense of her routine and

24:51

they all have their theories. They

24:53

told us how Sherry was afraid she might die.

24:56

There were guns, death threats. There

24:59

were troubles in the family and

25:01

problems with money. People

25:04

were afraid. Many had stories

25:06

to tell, but didn't want to be named. Many

25:09

feared telling the truth would put their own lives

25:11

at risk. And we started to wonder

25:14

what we had gotten ourselves into. We

25:16

realized we had to be even more careful

25:19

than we had expected. People

25:21

we spoke to and even police officers

25:24

warned us we needed to proceed cautiously

25:27

for our safety and for others.

25:35

One's renting him out as a human pain

25:37

patient. Yeah,

25:40

you can look at these.

25:47

Back at the family farm, Julianne

25:49

tells us she thinks she knows what happened to Sherry.

25:53

She thinks everyone knows.

25:55

Because she often

25:57

says, if anything happens to me, like

25:59

she told the kids. If anything happens to me, you

26:01

look after my dog, which

26:04

they did, you know.

26:06

But,

26:07

you know, there was different. I can't

26:09

think of anything else right now, but there was different

26:12

incidents when she'd say, you

26:14

know, mom,

26:15

you know, if anything happens to me, do

26:17

this or do that. So

26:20

she kind of always had it

26:23

in the back of her mind. I think that

26:25

she was very uneasy.

26:29

And I don't even know

26:31

if I should have this recorded, but I'm

26:34

kind of careful with what I say, because

26:37

I don't know. He could

26:39

come out here someday and kick the door

26:41

in and, you know, because

26:44

he does not like me. So I don't

26:46

like to say

26:49

too much against

26:51

him, just for that reason.

27:01

On the next episode of The Pit. So

27:04

when the detachment first got here, they didn't know what they

27:07

had. So they were,

27:09

they dug, for example, if the

27:11

scenery was like this, they dug in some

27:13

of the gravel because they figured that maybe

27:16

she was buried accidentally. So

27:19

they were searching right away. So

27:21

possibly destroying some of the evidence that

27:23

later we found out we may have needed.

27:26

Somebody was, somebody was in

27:28

an awful big hurry that

27:30

day because that jacking was loud,

27:33

so loud that it echoed all

27:36

the way up the valley.

27:42

The Pit is a CBC investigative

27:45

podcast.

27:46

The story was written, produced and mixed

27:49

by Victoria Din and me, Alicia

27:51

Bridges. Our senior producer

27:54

is Corinne Larson. Editorial

27:56

guidance came from Paul Dawnstutter and

27:59

David Hutton.

28:26

For more CBC Podcasts, go

28:28

to cbc.ca or visit

28:30

cbc.ca.au.

28:57

For more CBC Podcasts, go

28:59

to cbc.ca slash

29:01

podcasts.