0:01

Welcome back to Unscripted . In

0:03

this episode , we continue our powerful

0:05

conversation with Danielle and Karina

0:07

, two inspiring single moms

0:09

navigating life after divorce . They

0:12

share their experiences in this new chapter

0:14

of their lives how their kids have

0:16

adjusted , the new bonds they have

0:18

formed , and how to face

0:20

the challenges of disapproval with strength

0:22

and grace . You don't want to miss

0:24

it . Welcome

0:27

to Unscripted , your guide

0:29

to discovering the various options available

0:32

to you in the integrated and collaborative

0:34

medicine space . I'm Janine Barandi

0:36

and I've been treating patients with acupuncture

0:39

for 10 years and I'm Jenny Poole

0:41

.

0:42

I'm a trauma specialist and somatic therapist

0:44

with a passion for psychedelic-assisted

0:46

psychotherapy . The objective of our podcast

0:48

is to explore the various

0:50

care options available . Through our years

0:52

of practice , we've found that different modalities

0:54

can complement each other and conventional

0:57

medicine .

0:57

We hope our conversations resonate and

0:59

help you find the right tools and specialists

1:02

for your unique needs .

1:04

We believe in an advanced care model where the doctor

1:06

is not the only expert . We encourage

1:08

you to embrace a mindset where your practitioners are

1:10

your teammates , who ultimately empower you

1:12

to take control of your health as with every

1:14

episode .

1:15

This is not intended to act as medical advice

1:17

and no patient practitioner relationship

1:19

is formed from subscribing or tuning in

1:22

. How's it been ?

1:24

with your kids , because I know how it was with my kids

1:26

. Mine were like I told you , there's six

1:28

going on seven , eight going on nine

1:30

. So how did you guys talk about

1:32

it with them ? Well , danielle

1:34

and I have drastically

1:37

different sort of dynamics and experiences

1:39

with that , as I never

1:41

married my son's father . In fact

1:43

, I moved across

1:46

the country away from my son's father

1:48

as early as like

1:50

four months . My

1:52

youngest was four months old and

1:54

my oldest was just about

1:57

three , so they don't have memories

1:59

or memories of me ever being

2:01

in a relationship with their dad . Yeah , it's

2:03

always been just us . My

2:07

ex-husband was their stepdad and they

2:10

actually seemed very

2:12

relieved . It

2:15

was almost like a coming

2:17

back to each other after

2:19

the separation . We without

2:22

his energy and his , we

2:24

had the spaciousness to be ourselves

2:26

and be the trio that we always

2:29

were . My

2:31

youngest son , who's 11 , now

2:33

still sleeps with me and he

2:35

couldn't do that while I was married . And

2:38

although my ex-husband was a

2:40

great guy , he was decent , he

2:44

just kind of played it very

2:46

kind of flat noted with the boys

2:48

. He wasn't like the best stepdad

2:51

, he didn't really . That's a good

2:53

kind of . That's a good place to diverse , because some

2:55

stepmats like couldn't be more

2:57

. Feel like mine , more my own . And some are like not

3:00

biological children's song part , yeah

3:02

, which is a whole spectrum , I know , yeah

3:04

, yeah , and our spectrum was just somewhere in the middle

3:07

. I mean , I think they were just like cool

3:10

dude , roommates , just like hey , dude

3:12

, hey you know . And

3:14

so I just think , with his energy gone

3:16

, it was like a coming home . And it's been

3:18

almost two years since our separation

3:21

and till this day my

3:23

kids will bring him up in

3:26

sort of curiosity , like remember when

3:28

or why did you choose him

3:30

? Why did you break up with

3:32

him ? Or , you know , why did he ever do

3:35

that ? What did you see in him ? Um

3:37

, imagine , if it's so like it still

3:39

moves through their , their

3:43

life , yeah for sure . Do you feel like you have

3:45

to temper that with age-appropriate responses

3:47

? no I feel like you'd be pretty transparent . I'm

3:50

pretty transparent with my boys , yeah

3:52

, and I've always which can still be age-appropriate . I

3:54

just mean I know sometimes what I would share with , like

3:56

what I shared with my nine-year-old , for example . Of

3:58

course it's different than what I shared with my seven-year-old . Yeah

4:01

, you know , yeah , and I find myself

4:03

sometimes getting a little bit frustrated and

4:05

it's just with me and I really do check

4:07

through . I check in with myself

4:09

and because they don't often understand

4:12

especially as I'm starting to

4:14

date , I'm

4:16

not fully transparent about that , but sometimes

4:18

they'll get little peeks here and there

4:20

and they'll ask questions and they don't often

4:22

understand my sort of fluidity

4:25

in it . Right , I'm I'm not

4:27

a very well , I don't know what

4:29

, would you call it A very typical kind of

4:31

conservative , I don't know

4:33

kind of a woman . So I

4:35

don't know . I often have to like , really

4:38

check in and make sure I'm using

4:40

the right words and I'm being as

4:42

understandable as possible

4:44

. It's like , hey , he's my friend . How

4:46

is he your friend if you're dating him ? He's a special

4:48

kind of man . Yeah , just

4:52

trying to navigate me

4:55

, taking a unique approach on my

4:57

single womanhood and explaining

5:01

that to two boys becoming men watching

5:04

you now . It's really challenging

5:06

sometimes and your kids are how old again

5:08

? 14 , just about 14 , and 11

5:10

, yeah , and so

5:13

it's been really interesting

5:15

and also really

5:18

adorable , as they've

5:20

seen me through my grief and they've seen

5:22

me come out of it and start dating and be

5:24

happy , and they empower

5:27

me and they tell me things

5:29

like you deserve so

5:31

much better . They

5:33

often will imagine the ideal

5:35

man for me and , yeah

5:38

, they , they show up for me in ways

5:40

that I know there's this message

5:42

behind it of like we've got imam

5:44

, but they're not alone , and

5:47

those two particular people contact . They

5:49

do . It's starting to develop and

5:51

grow , but for the majority of

5:53

their young's life , yeah

5:56

, their first years they did not , and

5:58

so , yeah , I've been solo parenting

6:00

them since , like the beginning all the heavy , yeah

6:03

, heavy lifting , yeah . And then bringing in my

6:06

now ex-husband was definitely

6:08

very challenging and he sure tried and

6:10

I have to give him credit . But

6:13

, yeah , to bring that full circle

6:15

, my kids have handled it well and

6:18

they've been on my side and I think we're in

6:20

a phase of rejoicing the

6:22

spaciousness that I've created for us

6:24

to get back to each other with

6:26

this sort of like I don't know , excitement

6:28

about life and where it's going and

6:30

, yeah , what's to

6:32

come . Yeah , I didn't . I think that that

6:35

comes with me always

6:37

just being like we're going to be okay

6:39

, like we've got each other . You know , like

6:41

me , separating was never

6:44

traumatic for them in the way

6:46

that they worried about their home or their

6:48

lifestyle or their love , like

6:50

mama always had that , so it wasn't

6:52

like a big startling thing . Hell

6:55

, yeah , yeah , good on you

6:57

, that's really honest . Yeah , how

7:01

would you ? How are your kiddos ?

7:02

I mean , we have a little one , so , yes , not like

7:05

it's a three-year-old , they're all so

7:07

my oldest is almost 12 and then I have

7:09

a nine-year-old and then three-year-olds and

7:11

they're all at completely different

7:13

life stages and they need like

7:15

different type of parenting and

7:18

we're all just super

7:20

in it . Right now . My older two

7:22

have a better understanding . I feel like myself

7:24

and my husband

7:27

, my ex I don't know what to call him because we're still kind

7:29

of in between . We're both like calm

7:32

and stable and able to like explain to them

7:34

. We just basically approached it as , like

7:36

relationships change and

7:39

right now our relationship is changing

7:41

and it's not a reflection of you guys

7:43

or we're still a family

7:45

, but that dynamic is going to change . That's

7:47

how we've tried to approach it , because we're still very

7:49

much involved in

7:51

like day-to-day life . So he moved out

7:53

of our house , but he's living it's like

7:56

a two minute drive away , and so we've

7:58

just been , we're just navigating that and

8:00

that that part's been really tricky . My

8:06

older two have a better mental understanding of what's going on there . They've like expressed

8:08

their emotions about it in different ways . Um

8:11

, my youngest , my three-year-old , he's

8:13

, he just doesn't , he doesn't understand

8:15

like . He's like why can't dad sleep at our

8:17

house ? Why he ?

8:19

he just has this confusion around it because for it's

8:22

all he's known , and so that parts in

8:24

emotional age

8:26

wise , do you find that you have to temper

8:29

like because I again I remember what

8:31

I would say to my , you know , my six-year-old

8:33

mom on set , I had my eight-year-old mom on

8:35

nine I like wouldn't say the same things as I

8:37

, because they've asked me a question later

8:39

. I'm like , hey , as you get older and better , so

8:41

I can better more , give you a better

8:43

scope of kind of what some

8:46

of the dynamics were . Yeah , but at the time

8:48

it just was like , hey , we love you and relationships

8:51

change . Do you feel like you have to you're

8:53

tempering kind of what you say , or do

8:55

you like you can just be pretty direct ?

8:58

I feel pretty open and pretty direct with my kids

9:00

, obviously in like an age appropriate way , but

9:03

I don't want to ever tell them something

9:05

that's not true , or even a half truth

9:07

, like I just change yeah , I just try . I . We

9:10

really just stuck with like our relationship is changing

9:12

. I kept it pretty simple because I

9:14

don't think , because we're so early in it

9:16

, I don't think they need , I don't think they want to

9:18

know depths . I think they'll have those questions

9:20

eventually as they like , start to process , start to think about it . I think they'll have those questions

9:22

eventually as they like , start to process , start to think about it . I think those questions

9:25

will come up . Right now it's just been the basics

9:27

of like just kind of step

9:29

by step , of like this is what we're doing . Dad's

9:32

going to live somewhere different and this is when

9:35

you're going to dad's house and when you're staying

9:37

here . And then we've also kept an openness

9:39

. We have some e-bikes that they can ride , like from our

9:41

house to his house . So

9:49

just giving my older two at least permission that you have access , yeah to me , or yeah , and I think

9:51

that's really important too . Obviously we have to have structure , but and I would take them if they

9:54

wanted to go to his house anytime but for them to feel

9:56

like they can freely go from place

9:58

to place , I think is a really big deal when

10:00

it can work out that way , yeah yeah

10:03

and that was a priority for both of us and

10:05

just figuring where he could

10:07

live , that was so close I think the

10:09

hardest , like emotionally . I think it's been the hardest

10:11

on my three-year-old , which makes sense

10:13

because he he doesn't have words to like express

10:16

what he's feeling , so for him it's come

10:18

out in like tantrums or

10:20

just being a little bit more difficult

10:22

or scratchy or he just he doesn't know how

10:24

to say . My

10:27

life is changing , the two most important

10:29

people in my life , yeah , and

10:31

that's been tricky for him . I mean , he's

10:33

pretty verbal for a three-year-old , so

10:35

he can say things , but I think just him processing

10:38

and understanding that and just

10:40

trying to be consistent of how we respond , just

10:43

those big feelings of this little body .

10:44

Yeah , Like I don't know how to deal with what feelings

10:47

comes out of that behavior and those huge

10:49

expressions . Does it ever make you feel

10:51

like oof ? Was this the right thing to do

10:53

?

10:53

Yes , I

10:56

feel like that's pretty normal to be , like

10:59

I'm making this huge decision that I

11:01

know in my heart is right for me , but of course

11:03

I'm like would it have just been easier to not

11:05

make this decision ? Because look at how much pain

11:07

it's causing my children and I

11:10

think that's what prevented me from making that decision

11:12

for so long is the worry

11:14

of how this huge change is going

11:16

to affect it's not just my decision

11:18

. That affects me , but it affects

11:21

my entire family and so , absolutely in

11:23

those moments , it's like wow , this is really entire family . And so , absolutely Like when , in those

11:25

moments , it's like , wow , this is really freaking hard

11:27

. And like what am I doing ?

11:29

Like questions like that , Of course , like I

11:31

feel that the flip side of that , though

11:33

, is I mean I guess I can

11:35

say this from being in my own relationship

11:38

not that , not

11:40

that I've had children that would be

11:42

affected by it , but at the end of

11:44

the day if I

11:47

am not peaceful and I am not

11:49

thriving , then

11:51

I'm not taking

11:53

care of myself and , as a mother

11:55

, if you're not taking care of yourself

11:57

and you're not putting yourself into the place

12:00

where you feel whole

12:02

and happy

12:05

, children are gonna you're . They're gonna figure that out

12:07

on their own . They're gonna pick it up

12:09

yeah , they will , and mothers

12:11

will . Of all the people that they

12:13

sacrifice typically the most for

12:15

for their own , it

12:18

will be their children , like I will I will

12:20

stay in misery if it means that you fear

12:22

so again . That's why I think it's such a great choice

12:24

. But they're not necessarily happy

12:26

, and what's interesting about that ? They feel it , yeah

12:28

, and I think what you

12:31

do as a mother is ultimately create these

12:33

complexes for your children , because

12:35

there is no dishonest , oh , there is

12:37

no honesty and no authenticity

12:40

, and you know , you're just kind of in this disillusioned

12:42

state about a

12:44

lot of things . I remember when my parents

12:47

were going through that whole

12:49

phase and I would pull them

12:51

aside separately and be like you guys can get

12:53

a divorce , and we're like , where did you hear that word ? And

12:56

it was just so palpable to me , absolutely

12:59

. And I would wake up in the middle of

13:01

the night and go into their room and see if

13:03

they were still in the same bed together . So

13:06

your children , I mean . I can speak

13:08

to this part because I'm the child

13:10

of a divorced you know

13:12

of divorced parents that

13:15

there was so much angst

13:18

and when

13:21

my dad left it was like for

13:24

me in that moment it was like

13:26

cool , we

13:28

get to play now . And

13:31

that wasn't necessarily the

13:34

rest of the emotion from the other people

13:36

in the family , and so I was like , oh , maybe

13:39

I'll dial it down , but there was a sense

13:41

in me like I'm so glad

13:44

that there's not going to be this

13:46

dynamic anymore . It was

13:48

full of conflict . Oh my god , it

13:51

was eggshells All the time . It

13:54

makes me think about my own mother , who

13:56

she lived

13:58

in survival mode her , she

14:01

still does , yeah and

14:03

she came from extreme poverty in

14:05

puerto rico . You know , they made

14:07

it to the united states with

14:09

very little and had to do simile

14:12

and all of this throughout

14:14

her whole marriage . My father

14:17

lived many , many

14:19

other lives and

14:21

they were married for 20 years

14:23

and I

14:25

mean my dad was sloppy with it . You

14:28

know all that he did it's . It's

14:30

really quite fascinating . It was

14:32

very pervasive . It was so obvious and

14:36

she didn't know him

14:38

until year 20 when all of it started

14:40

to come out . And you wonder

14:42

how much she just ignored

14:45

. You know how much she

14:47

just suppressed and turned a blind eye

14:49

and just kind of kept on the survival

14:51

track of what is expected

14:53

of her to take in and do

14:55

for her family and be a woman . So

14:58

you look at , the body keeps score . As a kid , see

15:00

, I remember this . Do you remember feeling like

15:03

so the cost of that still would have shown up in her

15:05

emotional body , even though she wasn't consciously

15:07

aware , because attached problems go that way ? Did

15:10

you sometimes see your mom battle depression

15:12

or anxiety or

15:14

that dissociated kind of flat state

15:16

? Sinker , okay . Lots of love

15:18

Sinker , yeah . And

15:22

did you guys pay the price of that sometimes ? Yeah

15:24

, and we still do . Ten years after

15:26

her divorce , we still do . She's

15:30

evolving quite beautifully these last few years

15:32

. I'm really proud of her and

15:35

yeah , anyway , that's a whole other podcast .

15:37

Sure .

15:39

Mother-daughter relationship . Oh

15:42

my god , let's

15:44

put it on the calendar now , yeah , anyway

15:48

, just to bring that full circle , I wonder

15:50

if my mama had any

15:52

choices for herself and her well-being

15:55

and her self-care , how

15:57

different all would have looked . She

16:00

ignored those feminine parts and just

16:02

kept on feminine parts , yeah , and just kept on this survival

16:04

track and suppressed it all . And

16:07

I and I , as the adult daughter

16:09

looking back , I wish

16:11

that my mother had chosen herself more

16:14

and made those sort of risky and brave

16:16

decisions .

16:18

Yeah , something powerful . Kareena's been a huge

16:21

part of , like my

16:23

journey as I go through this . But

16:26

something I just remember really clearly

16:28

, like saying to you is that just

16:31

that maybe it's easier if I stay , or

16:33

easier if I don't make that decision

16:35

? And you just were like , um

16:39

, just like , is it easier ? Like

16:42

like it feels like it in a lot of ways

16:44

, but is it actually easier to like not

16:46

follow my heart or follow

16:49

what I know is right for me , because I think

16:51

in from like a societal standpoint

16:53

or just there are a lot of ways it's easier , but

16:55

ultimately I I don't think it's the easier

16:58

decision , even though it can

17:00

feel that way .

17:01

Yeah , and the

17:03

beautiful piece of that is human

17:05

connection . Right , it's resourcing a friend and

17:08

sometimes it says I see you , I

17:10

love you , and so this is

17:12

coming from a place of love , like

17:15

, whatever choice you make , I'll honor and love you for

17:17

. Or it's easier , all

17:19

that's wrapped up in the way that she showed

17:21

you support and

17:24

women need that instead of competition and knock off your crown and mess

17:27

your face . But I'm gonna be really

17:29

awful behind and I think when

17:31

women can really support each other and be there for

17:34

each other , it really helps

17:36

through some of the toughest times because

17:38

, again , that community , that resourcing going I'm

17:41

, I don't want to feel so alone in this landscape

17:43

because it's hard , yeah

17:45

, it's a hard decision . I think we've been up for each other a

17:47

lot yeah you

17:49

guys can see it in the emotion that's up into your eyes

17:52

, the way that you have felt to each

17:54

other , and that's what I think

17:56

is when we're being wired for connection . That

17:58

is so important is that

18:00

in our most challenging times , we have people

18:03

that we can lean on , that love us and let's

18:05

say they got you . Yeah , you need

18:07

I'll have to fix it for you , but you need a voice

18:09

of support and love and and

18:12

to care for you . There are times , so

18:14

many times , where I mean I've watched my friends do it is

18:16

they're kind of staying in relationships that don't

18:18

serve them . I could sit down and be like , hey , you know it's

18:20

good for you and I've said it , but

18:23

also like , if you still choose

18:25

it , I love you yeah , like how can I help you ? right

18:27

. Sometimes the message is here

18:29

how can I help ? I can't do . You know a lot

18:31

, yeah , yeah , yeah

18:33

too . I do remember when my

18:35

kids were asking if we were getting divorced

18:37

and I was completely irritated about it because my

18:40

ex-husband and I had talked about really being thoughtful

18:42

about how we talked to them about it . But

18:45

he had , obviously , and as we resourced our friends

18:47

, he had resourced some of

18:49

what were our friends and

18:51

their dad was son

18:53

, was best friends with my oldest and

18:55

out of nowhere he's like are you guys getting divorced ? I

18:57

was like why are you asking that ? He's like well , because so

18:59

and so told me that you guys are getting divorced and I was like why are you asking

19:02

that ? He's ?

19:02

like .

19:02

Well , because so-and-so told me that you guys are getting divorced and I was

19:04

like cool , I'm really irritated right now . I even told him that . I

19:06

was like this is not the way

19:08

that dad and I would want to tell you . I'm not

19:11

gonna lie to you like yeah , and I

19:13

tears . And I was like I remember

19:15

calling my friend and

19:18

her husband at the time . I was like sure

19:20

wasn't the way I wanted to introduce stuff to my son . It

19:22

was like if you and it's not , and

19:24

to me it wasn't on the kid , because he's he

19:27

was a nine year old too like you can

19:29

say don't say anything , but he

19:31

did . And so to me that was on the parents

19:34

and I was like you say no , that was

19:36

not well done and

19:38

that we didn't let us tell

19:40

our sons that . And I'm frustrated

19:42

and I think it's important to be able to say

19:44

those kind of things , to

19:50

have boundaries with what you want to talk to your kids or what you want to give that information . And I had this in

19:52

down later with their dad . I'd

19:55

be like guys , you know , we love you . Our

19:57

relationship's changing , we want to be hard on you and

20:00

this is what I would say to people . Listening to this is

20:02

one

20:06

relationship is changing and we want to be hard on you and this is what I would say to people listening to . This is one of the things that's really powerful for kids is you get to have a relationship with me and dad , independent

20:08

, and help me and dad feel like a lot of children . Hopefully , me and dad are able to maintain harmony

20:11

and good co-parenting dynamics

20:13

here . The sophistication

20:16

of that language is going to change , but they're eight right

20:18

when you said to a four-year-old I

20:20

just said I just want to make sure you guys know that

20:23

you're allowed to have whatever

20:26

relationship you want to have with this little parent , again

20:28

separate from abuse and super toxic

20:31

situations . Regardless of

20:33

how we end up doing with our children , you

20:36

don't have to be in the middle , because

20:38

too many times kids are in the middle of that and

20:40

weaponized against each parent

20:42

and it's horrible for the kid . It's

20:44

it's horrible and it's hard on it's stressed

20:47

up and nervous systems and that's one

20:49

of the cases I remember talking to my ex-husband

20:51

about . I remember sitting in the car because I

20:53

just got done with work we had met up . It's like

20:55

, okay , this is happening

20:57

. He's like , yeah , I think so , I

20:59

think we're there and I all right , we've

21:01

both been in like therapeutic environments and I said

21:04

we've seen parents do this before . We've

21:06

seen them weaponize their kids against each other . He said

21:08

promise me , no matter who you bring into your life , and I'll promise

21:11

you this , that we never put

21:13

our kids in the middle of having to choose between

21:15

us , because , first and foremost , those kids need

21:17

to to have relationships with us in the 10-hour

21:19

hours throughout each other . He was

21:21

a father

21:23

of our world and I'm like well , if you do , please

21:26

promise me right now that

21:28

we will always let our kids have

21:30

healthy relationships with

21:33

each other , with us , and

21:36

that's something we've stuck to and we've not

21:38

been married for eight years . So it's

21:41

huge . I

21:43

love that so much and I also loved the

21:45

question that kind of started this whole recent

21:50

conversation on like how

21:52

do you talk to your kids about

21:54

this Right ? Is it age appropriate ? And I

21:57

think really it changes all the

21:59

time , like there really is no like

22:01

finite answer for it , and

22:03

I remember once upon a time just

22:06

being very simple and very clean

22:08

, and now , as they're getting older

22:10

and I'm sort of over my grief

22:13

, I can be a little bit more transparent and what

22:15

I've realized is that in that transparency

22:18

my sons are learning so

22:20

much about the

22:23

human experience . I'm human

22:25

, I'm human , I'm , I'm

22:28

struggling , I feel , I

22:30

feel this , I feel that and I'm

22:33

gonna have hard days I need to do some self-care

22:35

. I'm gonna actually take a bath , so I'll

22:37

check in in an hour , or you know , like

22:39

I tell my boys I'm on my moon and

22:41

they just , you know , it's

22:44

like this , just I love it . You've educated

22:46

your boys . It's

22:50

gonna matter absolutely , and

22:52

so I don't know , I feel like I'm just

22:54

not interested in the veneer and

22:56

being the strong , you know

22:58

, mom , and I'm more like I'm

23:01

struggling , I'm grieving and

23:03

being able to just talk about children , about what grief

23:05

is . I didn't have that word in my vocabulary

23:07

, you know , until I was

23:09

a child and so , yeah

23:12

, I don't know . I just I love where

23:14

I'm at now with my children , where I can

23:16

be more open about my process

23:18

, my emotional states and and

23:21

and , and I can now connect it to like my femininity

23:23

, like where I am in my cycle and

23:25

how you know that comes through and comes

23:27

up , and I and then I'm okay , I'm gonna do my job to like my femininity

23:29

, like where I am in my cycle and how you know that comes through and comes up and I and

23:31

then I'm okay , I'm going to do my job to like transmute it and release it , and so

23:33

and I think there's like an educational

23:36

piece to that too , to show them that we're not

23:38

perfect . I think it's so

23:40

important for kids to see our humanity

23:43

. Yeah that is the arc of our emotional

23:45

experience without burdening them

23:47

with our emotions , of saying I'm human too and

23:50

this is I might get . Too many times I've told

23:52

my teenage son I'm like , hey

23:54

, what did I do today ? That

23:57

that like tell me what I did

23:59

. That thinks that you can talk to me

24:01

like that , that's right , I'm going to disrespect you

24:03

. Like tell me what I did to be treated

24:05

this way , because I don't think I deserve something

24:07

. I do you better , let me know . And he's like , oh , I'm

24:10

just having a bad day , like cool , don't

24:12

disrespect me because you're having a bad day . Yeah

24:14

, but reminding him like you

24:16

get to have your emotions , but I do too . I don't

24:18

have to be a battering ram or a lightning post

24:20

for you just because I'm your mom , yeah , like

24:23

I love you , but you

24:25

get to experience my emotions too

24:27

. Yeah , and you showing up authentically that

24:29

way teaches emotional intelligence

24:31

. Yes , emotional intelligence . I can't tell you

24:34

how important that is . I worked in a young adult program for

24:36

a while and the lack of emotional intelligence

24:38

is 18 to 25 year olds and the way and

24:40

having to cultivate it . It's like it's

24:43

to me if you're going to have raw

24:45

intelligence , you're going to be smart . I

24:47

think emotional intelligence is just as important

24:49

, if not sometimes more important , because it's

24:51

how you traverse the world in connections and relationships

24:54

. If you don't have emotional intelligence , I can't tell you the times

24:56

you've had the most questions going on . Oh , it's not , and it's

24:58

so unattractive . Yeah , I'm like it's not . You

25:02

can learn something different . It's learn something different . It's not just

25:04

how you are . Nobody has to put up for a lack of

25:06

emotional intelligence when there's a thousand free youtube

25:09

videos . Watch the emotional

25:11

death . So , yeah , do

25:13

you want to do it or not ? Like , and I'm

25:15

not even going to pay for a therapist to do that like , go

25:17

watch best old banner . Or

25:19

go watch the emotions guy that

25:21

wrote I have the emotions code and

25:23

there's the ideal emotion book that's

25:26

written with david balance . There's so many free

25:28

resources out there . When someone's like , let's just sign

25:30

on , like that's a cop out right

25:32

, and you're not willing to go watch a couple

25:35

of 10 to 20 minute videos to help start

25:37

growing your emotional intelligence , then that's

25:39

a big , huge issue . Yeah , and then

25:41

when you wonder why your relationships are flourishing

25:43

, you know , double you back to what

25:46

are you doing to work or not work on yourself

25:48

. When I taught in the management class , I did it for five

25:50

years . I can't tell you how many times

25:52

it's not just about anger and anger being a secondary emotion

25:54

. It was y'all need better emotional

25:56

regulation skills , like so how do we start

25:59

teaching those ? And so sometimes it was amazing

26:01

to them how sometimes literally , I talk about

26:03

the word anger and emotional intelligence

26:06

. And so when you foster that in children

26:08

, right , they are so much more prepared and

26:11

you also teach them accountability . Yeah

26:13

, and , by the way , how to navigate relationships

26:16

so that either they don't stay in ones

26:18

that aren't healthy for them or that , if they stay

26:20

in them , they know how to have a capacity to work through hard

26:22

times , because there is a growing I

26:25

don't say it's just a generation , but there's a growing

26:27

trend and this

26:29

is too hard , I'm out . I'm like , listen , it is

26:31

not helpful for you to try to get out , but

26:33

can't tell you times I'd be like

26:36

we've tried very hard

26:38

, we're trying to exit this . So let's

26:40

just maybe try a couple things . And I'm still

26:42

right because , again , I think it's a great choice to live

26:44

something that doesn't help , but sometimes

26:46

that like this kind of got hard and

26:48

I don't want to do anything more . I'm like whoa , this

26:51

relationships are hard period , so if you're not

26:53

ready to do some work in them to also cultivate joy

26:55

, then we gotta grow your resilience and being

26:57

able to have a relationship , and

26:59

that includes a thousand percent having

27:02

emotional intelligence . Yeah , so

27:04

teaching our kids that was huge . That's

27:07

all said , yes . Well

27:09

, is there anything , ladies , before we close , that you

27:11

can ?

27:11

ask about your experience .

27:13

If you follow us through the listeners

27:16

that we have like , would you , if you had to say something

27:18

to them about this experience you've had , what

27:20

would ?

27:21

it be , I think there's just

27:23

like so much duality

27:25

in it that it is really hard

27:27

. And then there's been moments that I'm just

27:29

like excited

27:31

, relieved , like I just think it's such an emotional

27:34

, like such a range of emotions

27:36

in the experience and I I'm

27:39

just like riding the wave .

27:40

So I don't know if I I don't have like but

27:43

maybe that's it right , yeah , yeah , like be

27:45

ready to ride the wave . Yeah , you're not wrong

27:47

, it's not linear . Yeah , I

27:49

know right . Yeah , it's expect

27:51

, and even if I could have projected

27:54

and thought about all the experiences I thought I would have

27:56

had , it was harder

27:58

, yeah , I still would have done it . But

28:00

I do tell this to my couples that I counsel they're

28:13

like because people tell you the grass is up right on the other side . I'm like it's not , and divorce

28:15

is hard , but sometimes it's the best thing for you . So try everything you can , but it's , you know

28:17

, don't , don't kid yourself , but it's . It's tough , like it's . There's a difficult

28:19

piece of . There's just going to be a lot of emotions

28:21

to ride right our way

28:23

. So there's really

28:25

so much I want to say , but

28:27

something that keeps coming through is

28:30

you know we discussed

28:32

or you , you asked the question of how to get

28:34

back to your femininity , when

28:36

this life and the situations

28:39

that we find ourselves in going through divorce

28:41

or being single mothers puts

28:43

us so much in our masculine and

28:45

it got me thinking of how I do that and

28:48

self-care comes to mind . But I think

28:50

really , underneath it all is I

28:52

ask myself this question all the time . Why

28:55

am I bitter and I realized

28:57

recently that that was one of the

28:59

most transformative decisions

29:02

of my womanhood was to decide

29:04

I'm no longer going to be bitter

29:06

. And one

29:09

way to get out of my bitterness about

29:11

life and the life challenges is to find

29:14

create ceremony

29:17

around my grief and

29:19

around the cyclical

29:21

nature of being a woman which is

29:23

going through the death and the rebirth

29:26

process over and over

29:28

again . And when you look at our bodies

29:30

, I mean we're doing it every single month

29:32

? yeah , right , and so

29:34

also , yeah , I've . I've just

29:37

found that creating ceremony

29:39

around these cycles and these

29:41

processes in life

29:43

, these challenges , has brought

29:46

the beauty and it's taken me far from

29:48

bitterness and it's allowed me

29:50

to I don't know almost like find

29:54

the death as this exciting journey

29:57

where I'm like going into the darkness

29:59

. But I got this inner light

30:01

. So I'm like in this dark cave

30:03

, this under earth dark cave , and

30:06

it's cold and it's scary , there's

30:08

unknown , there's creatures , but

30:10

with this inner light I can like walk through

30:12

it and go deeper and deeper and I know

30:14

that , like in the descent of myself

30:16

and in my death and what I'm transmuting

30:19

, that there are like really beautiful treasures

30:21

in the depth of that

30:23

. Yeah , and it requires my

30:26

aloneness , it requires my

30:28

inner power and

30:30

that ceremony , going

30:33

through your descent into

30:35

yourself , to capture those jewels

30:38

that only exist in the darkness

30:40

alone , to then grab . You learn

30:43

so much in that grief , in that place

30:45

, and you grab them . Do you find

30:47

that that's what illuminates them ? The darkness

30:49

?

30:50

Yeah .

30:50

Through that refiner's fur , that struggle sometimes

30:53

, that darkness , that felt unsettling , then

30:55

you find that treasure and you go , okay

30:59

, wow , that was scary , I

31:01

didn't know where we were going to go , but look

31:03

at what I found , yeah , and then it's

31:06

such a growing and strengthening part of

31:08

you that grows your resilience . It grows

31:10

, grows , just grows you immensely

31:12

, yeah , and then also connects you , I think , ultimately

31:15

to not just your gifts and talents , but your strength

31:17

based essence , like

31:20

what makes us powerful as women , what makes us

31:22

powerful as individuals , what

31:24

makes us powerful as ourselves , and

31:27

that that moving forward and this is a huge

31:29

place , I think , for women to get that leave relationships

31:31

and then traverse the world and eventually find other relationships

31:34

. Because , again , I think we're being required

31:36

for connection . It's not if , if we need

31:38

connections , we do need them . So even if

31:40

we don't get in a relationship , I do think we need community and

31:42

people and connections and good friends . But

31:45

through that we're able to say then

31:47

I know me and when I get

31:49

into something that I want

31:51

it , I don't need it , I want

31:53

it , yeah I'm in a relationship right

31:55

now where there isn't anything that I need

31:58

monetarily from my

32:00

relationship and it's so bringing

32:02

power . I think is I just want

32:05

it . We want each other don't need

32:07

. I want to share our life together

32:09

and that feels . Feels

32:11

so good that and it feels

32:13

on a way , so much safer because

32:16

I feel like

32:18

I could leave it if I needed to . It's

32:21

none of my choice to stay as someone so

32:23

powerful choose

32:25

it every day yeah , it's awesome , we're choosing each

32:27

other every day . Yeah , that's

32:29

how he was about too . He could , he could leave it . I

32:31

remember one time he told me he's like you're like a

32:34

broken stem . And then I'm

32:36

here and I was like hold on a sec . No

32:38

one can break you . We're

32:41

the wild . You know him . I was like

32:43

you're a wild stallion , regardless . He's like . I

32:45

said let me just tell you . I said you're that stallion that

32:47

doesn't have to have a bridle or a halter

32:49

. It's like the black stallion that lets you ride it . Because

32:52

it lets you . It's never

32:54

going to be tame . He

32:57

was like I really don't like that one . I

32:59

was like you're no stallion caught in a pen , dude . I was like you choose this every

33:02

day and you can unchoose it . I said I know you

33:04

have choices . I said and so it speaks

33:06

to your nature , you

33:08

choose this every day because you're still wild and

33:11

you want this . So I recognize

33:13

that you've done more things than half . There's

33:16

so many other good topics I know

33:18

. That's why I'm in

33:20

this conversation . Keep

33:22

doing this . Oh , my goodness . Thank you so

33:24

much for being vulnerable . Thank you so much for being vulnerable . Thank

33:26

you so much for sharing for us . We want to be a voice that when people

33:28

listen to this they go that that

33:31

helped me , or wow , that was insightful , or

33:33

wow that resonated with me , that

33:36

spoke to me . It's just beautiful to see your

33:38

guys's personalities and how they just show up

33:40

in your willingness to . You could just see the emotion

33:43

in your essence , in your

33:45

eyes . It's so authentic and I appreciate that

33:47

and

33:49

I want to say you're both in business

33:52

, you have things that you're doing , your initiatives

33:54

, and if you want people to contact

33:56

you , how like , how could

33:58

they contact you , whether it's to reach

34:01

out for support or to your

34:03

therapy or retreat ? Sign house from you like you're

34:05

business women . You're you're business women

34:07

, you're doing your thing . Like , how can people

34:09

get in ?

34:09

touch with you , jen . I'm probably just on Instagram it's

34:12

like the best way to find me , so it's just Danielle

34:14

D-A-N-I-E-L-L-E-M

34:17

and then Mira M-I-A-R-A

34:19

Cool .

34:21

Cool . Well , tandy , for sure , yeah , and

34:30

I'm definitely in the construction phase of things

34:32

, but I'd love to foster new connections where that resonates

34:34

. So I think Instagram is a great way to

34:37

Vive Rose . So , v-i-v-e dot , r-o-s-e , and

34:40

, yeah , I hope to soon start

34:43

my work in the integrated wellness scene

34:45

, bringing in the physical health , the

34:48

emotional , the creative

34:51

and the spiritual . Nice

34:53

, yeah , aka powerful women

34:55

, yeah , stay tuned , absolutely

34:57

, absolutely , yeah , thank

34:59

you for inviting me .

35:01

Thank you for joining us on unscripted . I'm

35:03

jenny pool and I'm janine barandi

35:05

. We hope you found today's

35:07

discussion as inspiring and insightful as we

35:09

did . If you have any questions , comments

35:12

or stories you'd like to share , we'd love to hear

35:14

from you . Connect with me on Instagram

35:16

at the Acupuncturist and you'll find

35:18

me on social media at MEND

35:20

Counseling Center .

35:22

Until next time , remember that

35:24

the best gift you can give to those you love

35:26

is the gift of your own good health .