0:00

In the beginning of my professional

0:02

career, I was happy

0:04

to just be able to play. Like to me, it

0:06

wasn't about money. It was just like, I get to do

0:08

this as a job, and it's great that

0:10

I get paid, but I'm not that concerned about the money.

0:13

And that was me being naive and also young

0:15

and fresh out of college. So I

0:17

think that as I became

0:19

more experienced, you began to realize

0:22

how drastic it was, and

0:25

just that it was discriminatory.

0:27

You know that this isn't right. There's there's an issue

0:29

here and we need to fix it, and we need to be part

0:32

of fixing it. And if we don't do that, no

0:34

one else is going to do that. This

0:41

is Sweat the Details, a collaboration with Under

0:43

Armour and I Heart Radio, a sports

0:45

and training podcast made for women by

0:47

women that puts our success in challenges

0:50

at the front and center. I'm Monica

0:52

Jones. I'm a fitness coach, boxer, business

0:55

owner, and you a athlete and I'm Meg

0:57

Bugs. I'm a powerlifter, author, body

0:59

positive the advocate, and mother. Every

1:01

episode, Monica and I will talk to athletes,

1:04

trainers, and experts and learn more about how the

1:06

body of mind work together in training and

1:08

competition. Meg, get

1:10

ready because today I'm ready.

1:13

Yes, we are talking with US soccer star

1:15

Kelly O'Hara. She's an Olympic

1:17

gold and bronze medalist and a two time FIFO

1:19

World Cup champion. What a resume,

1:22

right, I mean incredible. She

1:24

is just she's so impressive

1:27

and like many legendary athletes,

1:29

Kelly fell in love with soccer at a very young age

1:31

and eventually found her way playing D one

1:34

soccer at Stanford and then with

1:36

her first professional soccer team, FC gold

1:38

Pride. She currently plays within Washington

1:41

Spirit and the United States women's national

1:43

soccer team. Yes, but

1:45

pursuing soccer professionally hasn't been an easy

1:47

path, especially due to disparities in

1:49

working conditions and wages between men

1:52

and women soccer players in the US. Of

1:54

course, Kelly and her teammates have been raising

1:56

their voices to achieve equality

1:58

in the sport. I'm looking forward to hearing more about

2:01

their fight and how we can all help

2:03

to uplift women's sports across the board.

2:06

Yes, obviously we've had you know, multiple

2:08

conversations with powerful women on

2:10

this show, but to really

2:12

bring it home with Kelly, and the action

2:14

that she and her teammates and other women

2:16

in the sport of soccer are taking is inspiring.

2:20

They're getting together and really taking action

2:23

so far as going into court in seeing

2:25

through lawsuits that right there

2:27

while being a professional athlete and performing

2:30

your best is something that I

2:32

can't even fathom, but I'm so thankful

2:34

for. I mean, let's

2:37

be real, if women's sports actually

2:39

received that same type of visibility

2:41

and support as men's sports, people

2:43

would be watching. It's that simple, This

2:46

assumption that there's a lack of interest

2:48

when there's really never even been

2:51

a solid attempt to

2:53

give women's sports an equal amount of pay

2:55

and an equal amount of support. It's

2:57

just wild to me. It's just mind

2:59

blowing. But deep

3:01

breaths. Yeah, it's it's

3:04

a vicious cycle, and it is

3:06

going to be a long climb.

3:08

But I'm very, very excited that this

3:10

this conversation can reach more ears

3:13

and that we can continue to continue

3:15

to push this conversation further and continue

3:17

to take action. Before we get to the interview,

3:19

I want to explain some acronyms that you'll

3:21

hear Kelly use when talking about equal

3:23

pay. N W s l p

3:26

A is short for the National Women's

3:28

Soccer League Players Association, which

3:30

is the union representing NWSL

3:32

players. These players play for

3:34

soccer clubs and may or may not be

3:36

in the national team. Yes, we are

3:38

back at it again with the letters. Another

3:41

union is the U S w n t

3:43

p A, the U S Women's National Team

3:45

Players Association, which represents national

3:48

team players. These players represent the US

3:50

in international competitions such as

3:52

the World Cup and the Olympics, and may or

3:54

may not be nws L players.

3:57

You'll also hear the term c b A, which

3:59

means collective bargaining agreements.

4:02

This is a written legal contract between an employer

4:04

and a union representing the employees.

4:07

So I feel like we literally just passed the bar exam.

4:10

And I know these acronyms are hard to remember,

4:12

but we know the main idea is that these

4:14

two unions are helping women soccer players

4:17

achieve better pay and working conditions

4:19

by negotiating better contracts for them.

4:21

Absolutely, mon, what do you say

4:23

we get to our conversation with the incredible

4:25

Kelly O'Hara. Let's get it. What's

4:31

up? Fam? I'm literally sweating

4:33

right now with excitement because we are here

4:36

right I mean I'm like, because

4:38

we're sitting here with two time FIFA World

4:40

Cup champion and Olympic gold medalist

4:42

Kelly O'Hara, and I always speak for everyone

4:45

here and listening that we are incredibly excited

4:47

to have you here on Sweat the Details. How are you, Kelly?

4:49

I'm doing great? And I also agree

4:51

it's funny how like right before you're supposed to

4:53

start, it's like you're a little sweat going. It's

4:55

like a little bit of nerves or something. But

4:58

yeah, which is so funny. It definitely happens

5:00

to feel on that we had to let these armpits

5:03

free today because yeah,

5:05

I know you came

5:07

with the cutoff. We kept it cool for the

5:09

pre interview, but now I'm losing it all

5:11

right, I

5:14

know I'm already sweating. I'm like, what is happening?

5:16

Well, I just want to dive right in

5:19

and start from the beginning. Can you tell us about your journey

5:21

as an athlete. What role did sports play

5:23

in your life growing up, and how did

5:25

you first get into soccer? Oh?

5:27

Man, Um, I think sports played

5:30

a huge role in my life. I

5:32

started playing soccer

5:35

when I was four. My parents were like, you're

5:37

gonna go play in Muppets

5:39

Soccer in Puture City, Georgia, and

5:41

that was the first organized sporting

5:45

event or practice I guess I did

5:47

as a kid, which is kind

5:49

of fitting that it ended up being the one that

5:51

I have progressed

5:53

in and obviously become a professional and taking

5:56

it the farthest. So um, yeah, started when

5:58

I was four, and I

6:00

did tons of sports growing up. You

6:02

name it, I probably tried it. I

6:04

just like to be outside, I like to play.

6:07

I like to compete, even at a very early

6:09

age, and eventually

6:12

soccer was the one that

6:15

became the number one. But

6:18

up until I was probably fourteen or

6:20

fifteen, I did a ton of different sports and

6:22

and I do think that shaped me as

6:25

a kid, teenager and now

6:27

as a person. And I credit

6:29

my parents because they're both very athletic, but

6:31

they also knew the benefit and

6:34

the importance of going out and playing

6:36

and being active and

6:38

the things that you can learn sports and all that stuff. So

6:41

very thankful that they were just like, try whatever,

6:43

do whatever. Oh it's amazing. Did

6:46

you always want to be a professional

6:48

soccer player or how did you realize

6:51

that was the career you wanted to take? Oh

6:53

gosh, no, I definitely. When I was

6:55

in elementary school, I think I wanted to be a librarian,

6:58

and I like thought about I

7:00

liked I liked organizing things like

7:02

the Dewey decimal systems, like this would be lit

7:04

to be able to do this, you know, for the rest of my life.

7:07

Um No, I'm really glad I didn't. But shout

7:09

out to all the librarians out there. Um

7:12

No, So I didn't. I didn't even think

7:14

about being a professional soccer

7:17

player until probably

7:20

watching the ninety nine World Cup and seeing

7:23

the women win that.

7:26

Um but even still, I

7:28

didn't love soccer as a kid. I

7:31

really enjoyed it was one of my favorite sports, but I wasn't

7:33

obsessed with it like

7:35

I have become later on in

7:37

life. So yeah, I think

7:40

until I was in college even

7:42

and there became a professional league that I could

7:45

play in that It wasn't until then I was

7:47

like, oh, this is a possibility that I could be

7:49

a professional athlete in the sense of playing

7:52

in a league. You know. My goal was always to

7:54

play on the national team at the highest level, to win

7:56

World Cups, to win Olympics, and

7:58

to be a professional athlete in that at sense.

8:01

But yeah, I think it's really it

8:03

didn't happen until I had the ability to even

8:05

think like, oh I could go I could play in a league

8:08

here in the US and and be a professional

8:10

athlete day in a day. So

8:12

like, it wasn't until really later on you played,

8:14

you said at four, but you had

8:16

probably years and years and years

8:19

of playing soccer before it really hit you

8:21

that this was something that was a possibility.

8:23

Yeah, definitely. And I mean I almost quit soccer

8:25

when I was third team because I was just like, my

8:27

schedule is too busy. I don't have time for this,

8:30

you know, it's taking up two much of my time, being

8:32

probably a little diva like that. But

8:35

again, I once I sold the ninety nine World

8:37

Cup, I think I was like, oh, I want to play on the national team.

8:39

Like, if that's the highest level you can get, two, I

8:41

want to be the best and I want to get to that level.

8:44

Um. But the idea of being a professional

8:47

and what that meant or what that would

8:49

end up meaning, I don't really think started

8:52

to sink into my head

8:54

until probably late in

8:56

high school, maybe college.

8:59

Wow. So you went to

9:01

your first FIFA Women's World Cup in two thousand

9:03

eleven, and then the following year, you made it to the Olympics,

9:06

which is wow. Can

9:08

you tell us more about those experiences, like, how

9:11

was the experience of representing your country at

9:13

a high level international competition.

9:15

Yeah? So, I mean, like I said, I

9:17

I think that seeing

9:21

the ninety nine World Cup made me think, oh,

9:23

I want to play on that team, and I want to play

9:25

for the USA, and I want to play soccer um.

9:28

But even before then

9:31

Olympics it was held in Atlanta, which I'm

9:33

a Georgia girl, I grew up there, and funny enough,

9:35

my parents didn't take me to any of the events.

9:38

I just watched them on TV. But I remember that

9:40

was the first time I really watched I think sports

9:42

on television or that I can remember, and

9:45

in particular watched women compete.

9:47

And it wasn't even the

9:50

soccer team. It was the gymnastics

9:52

team that I remember watching and just being

9:54

in awe of and inspired by

9:56

and looking at them and being like, I want to do

9:58

that one day. And as I got

10:00

older and kind of went

10:02

through the ranks in the youth national team system

10:06

with soccer, I think that's when

10:09

I really started to think, oh, I could maybe

10:11

one day go to a World Cup, go

10:14

to an Olympics, and

10:16

that was the goal, um. But to then be

10:18

able to do it was extremely

10:20

special and

10:23

and it's it's cliche to say, but a dream

10:25

come true, you know, that was what I thought about as

10:27

a kid exactly growing up.

10:29

And so yeah, I mean it's hard to describe

10:33

because it

10:35

is very special, and I think back then I was

10:38

more so like enamored with the idea. I was like, I'm

10:40

here, I get to do this. This is

10:42

so cool. I'm just part of it, you know, like,

10:45

and didn't fully

10:49

which is a good thing, take on the weight

10:51

of the expectation of winning and that sort

10:53

of thing. It's interesting that I want a gold

10:55

medal first, and that was that

10:57

was truly like a childhood dream,

11:00

being an Olympian and being a gold medalist,

11:02

um. But then to later go on and win World

11:05

Cups. They're very different,

11:07

but again incredible

11:09

in their own right and very thankful.

11:11

I've been able to be a part of so many and so many

11:14

successful tournaments. So it's

11:16

a huge, huge platform and like

11:18

a huge amount of coverage. So

11:22

what are some lessons that you got from your first

11:24

international competitions that you now

11:26

apply to your games? Like we see on the media

11:28

how teams will go overseas

11:31

and they will have to deal with time

11:33

change. I have to deal with practicing

11:35

at a completely different time, Like what are some

11:37

lessons that you got from those competitions?

11:39

So the World Cup and the coach

11:41

basically sat me down before and

11:44

said you're not going to see the field.

11:46

You're there to practice and support and

11:48

be a cheerleader. And I was like, whatever

11:50

you need, I got you, no problem.

11:52

But I ended up getting subbed into

11:55

the third group stage

11:57

game. We're playing Sweden and

11:59

we were losing. I got subbed in in the last

12:01

fifteen minutes and I still

12:03

remember our strength conditioning coach

12:05

coming down, Don Scott. She comes down

12:07

and her job was to tell who was stubbing

12:10

in to go warm up, and she walks

12:12

on the bench and she gets to me and she stops

12:14

and she's like, go warm up, and that means

12:16

you're probably going to go and there's a chance you're gonna go in.

12:18

And I remember being like, are you sure you didn't

12:20

pick the wrong person, Like you definitely do not

12:22

want me going in this game, Like you need to go check with the coaches

12:25

and make sure I'm the one they want going

12:27

in the game. Well, they wanted me to go in,

12:29

and I ended up going in and played

12:32

probably the worst soccer I've ever played

12:34

in my life. I didn't do anything right.

12:36

Um, it wasn't good, and we

12:38

lost and thankfully were already through, but

12:41

still we went through a second which set

12:43

us up to play Brazil, which

12:45

it just was a harder draw, and I

12:47

felt person responsible for coming in and

12:50

not doing well. And I remember

12:52

after the game, I actually got pooled for drug

12:55

testing. And so

12:57

the way it works, you go to drug testing, everybody showers,

12:59

leaves, you do your drug testing,

13:02

you go back in a separate bank because everyone's already gone home

13:04

because it takes a couple hours. But

13:06

before we left, I went back up to

13:08

the field because it was quiet. The lights

13:10

were off, no one was there, stadium

13:13

was empty, and I remember standing

13:15

at the top of the steps

13:18

right as you are about to enter the pitch and

13:20

just kind of looking out and taking in

13:22

that moment and telling myself,

13:24

this is a soccer field like any other soccer field

13:26

you played on. Yes, it's in front of millions of people you

13:29

know on TV and fans in the stadium, all the stuff

13:31

there's a lot of factors that are different, but at the end

13:33

of the day, what you're gonna do on this field

13:35

or what you were supposed to do on this field is what you've done every

13:38

single time, and to remember

13:40

that and you've been doing it for so long and

13:42

no matter how big the situation

13:44

or the game presents itself

13:47

as it's just soccer and

13:49

you've been there before, so don't

13:52

make the same mistake again and getting too

13:54

caught up in all the hype

13:56

and the pressure in the moment. And that

13:58

was something that change anged how I

14:01

approached the rest of my career. And I'm

14:03

really thankful that I basically fell a

14:05

flat on my face and had

14:07

the opportunity to take a step

14:09

back and figure out how I can

14:11

make sure it didn't happen again. And and so

14:13

yeah, so I think in all of that, I would say

14:16

my biggest thing is like when you're

14:18

when you're training for something and it's it's not even sports,

14:20

it's anything. It's a test, it's you're about

14:22

to give a presentation in business. Like you've done it

14:24

before, you can do it again. And

14:26

there might be different factors that make

14:28

the situation or the moment feel very

14:31

elevated. But at the end of the day, stick

14:33

to what you know, and I

14:36

know that you put in the work to do what you need to

14:38

do to be successful. So, um,

14:41

that was a long story to say that.

14:43

That's basically I

14:45

needed to hear a player of your caliber

14:47

say it was not good because

14:50

my direct quote was that was the biggest epic

14:52

fail of my life. And

14:54

I said it to a teammate and if she ever listens

14:56

that she would last. But um, yeah, that was

14:59

that was my be like that. Sometimes

15:01

it'd be like that sometimes sadly,

15:04

I feel like everyone listening probably is like you're

15:06

speaking directly to me. I needed to hear

15:08

this right now, you know. Yeah,

15:10

and you say it's an epic fail, but you know the way

15:12

that you twisted it into being this pivotal moment

15:14

for you, it sounds like maybe it wasn't such an

15:17

epic bill. I mean, I'm thankful, yeah,

15:19

thankful it happened when it did, and

15:21

and thankfully you know, like we didn't, we

15:23

were still moving through. It wasn't that big of

15:26

a deal in terms of the grand scheme of things. Um

15:29

so yeah, but for

15:31

you personally, I'm sure it was huge. Oh my god.

15:33

I thought my I thought my career was over. And

15:35

truthfully, the coach I find

15:37

out later was like planning on not ever calling

15:39

me back in after that. But

15:42

yes, but gave me another

15:44

chance and thank god, and

15:46

you know, the rest is history. But yeah, it

15:48

was. Oh yeah, it was right on the edge

15:51

of just really messing it all up. So

15:56

oh man, So I know

15:58

you did soccer in college at Stanford and then played

16:00

professionally and multiple teams across the country,

16:03

including FC Goldpride and your current team

16:05

is Washington Spirit. Um, you've also

16:07

played different positions. How has your

16:09

training regime changed as you've gotten more

16:11

experience and changed teams? Oh?

16:14

Man, Um, it's

16:16

changed a lot. I feel like that

16:18

has been something that

16:21

I am thankful I have

16:23

had the ability to pivot

16:26

and change and find different

16:28

things and continually be looking at places

16:31

where my game can get better, my

16:33

training can get better, or different

16:36

strength auditioning, nutrition, sleep,

16:39

recovery. Like there's so many things throughout

16:41

my career that I

16:43

just continually tweaked because in my mind,

16:46

we're at the top of our game as professional

16:48

athletes. So this idea

16:51

of aggregation of marginal

16:53

gains of can I get one percent better

16:55

in each area, that's going to give me a ten

16:57

percent gain on the rest of my

16:59

competition or all my current self. So

17:02

the way I would say in my career

17:05

is that I've just constantly been looking

17:07

how do I tweak it? Where do I tweak it? And

17:10

that is also to say there was times when I

17:12

didn't approach it that way and I was like, I'm

17:14

going to do the same thing over and over again, and

17:17

I kept getting the same results, and eventually

17:19

I was like, oh, change something, And

17:23

I'm thankful I've been able to see that. But yeah,

17:25

I'm down to try anything. I'm

17:27

always looking for the next

17:30

thing that's going to help me get a little bit better.

17:32

And especially as you get older, like just as

17:35

a professional athlete, you've got to do so

17:37

many things right and really focus

17:39

on the details. What the details. It sounds cliche,

17:42

but it's true, Like and I wish I would

17:44

have done that as a younger

17:46

professional truly, because you

17:49

feel good you do the same thing, and

17:51

then when do you wake up and you're like, I need to do a

17:53

laundry list of things to be ready to go to practice today

17:56

at the end of the day, Like if you do them, you're

17:58

able to continue to play at a level

18:00

that you want to play and then some. So it's

18:03

great to hear about your growth and love for the sport. Kelly.

18:05

Honestly, you're making me want to pick up the soccer ball

18:07

again. However, we know that being a

18:09

professional soccer player hasn't been just fun

18:11

and laughter for you. There are structural challenges

18:14

you face, including pay disparities between

18:16

male and female soccer players, and you've

18:18

been really vocal about the issue. So now we'd

18:20

love to dive deeper into that. Here's some

18:23

data, okay, God. According

18:27

to Major League Soccer data, the

18:29

minimum salary for a male player in the

18:31

United States in a senior team

18:33

is around eighty one tho dollars. On

18:35

the other hand, the minimum salary

18:38

for a female player in the National Women's Soccer

18:40

League can be as low as twenty two thousand dollars.

18:43

Yuck. The pay gap problem

18:45

goes beyond the league's and extends the national

18:48

teams in the US women's

18:50

national team filed a lawsuit against

18:52

the US Soccer Federation denouncing

18:55

a gender pay gap, which included women

18:57

receiving smaller bonuses for winning than

18:59

men. When did you first

19:01

find out about the gendered paid discrepancy,

19:04

and how did you feel at that time. I

19:07

think that I knew

19:09

about it as soon as I started playing

19:11

professionally and even before then. Um,

19:14

but to be honest, in the beginning of my

19:17

professional career, I was

19:19

happy to just be able to play. Like to me,

19:22

it wasn't about money. It was just like, I get

19:24

to do this as a job and get

19:26

paid. It's great that I get paid, but I'm not that

19:28

concerned about the money. And that was me being naive

19:30

and also young and fresh out of college.

19:33

So I think that as I

19:35

became more experienced and

19:38

did it for longer and started

19:41

to hear things and also see things, you

19:43

begin to realize how

19:45

drastic it was, and

19:47

just that it was discriminatory.

19:50

You know that this isn't right. There's there's an issue

19:52

here, and we need to fix it, and we need to be part

19:54

of fixing it. And if we don't do that, no

19:56

one else is going to do that. I think that's that's one

19:58

of the biggest things that I've learned through my career

20:00

with this specific issue, is

20:02

that you can complain all you want about

20:05

something you can you know, talk about it till

20:07

you're blue in the face. But if you're not willing

20:09

to put in the time and the steps

20:12

and the plan to say how do we go from point

20:14

A to point B, no one else is

20:16

doing it for you. And so I think that

20:18

is what I came

20:20

to learn, and I'm thankful for that, and

20:23

I think that's what has allowed

20:25

us as national team players to finally

20:28

take the step to take this to

20:30

court and to make it have to

20:32

hold up there. So yeah, it's

20:35

it's been a journey if you will

20:37

strengthened numbers though for sure, you

20:39

know, it's like when we stop commiserating

20:42

and we start putting that plan together, there's

20:44

there's incredible things that can happen from that. Yeah.

20:48

I actually was talking to something on the phone today and um,

20:51

she said, UM, I always

20:53

tell people like, don't tell me

20:55

the floods coming or the floods here, like start

20:57

building arc, you know, And

20:59

and that hit me because it's I

21:01

mean, it's applicable in so many areas of life,

21:04

and I fully believe in that, and

21:06

I think we all get sometimes caught up in talking

21:08

about the flood as opposed to being like, how

21:11

are we going to build the arc and I do think there's

21:13

power in the collective, their strength

21:15

and numbers for sure. Yeah. So

21:18

you know, in your fight for equal pay,

21:20

where where have you seen the greatest change?

21:23

Where are you? You know? Where are you getting stuck

21:25

in this issue? Um? We're definitely

21:28

getting stuck on the on the dollars

21:30

issue. I will say that if

21:32

you follow the legal battle

21:34

closely, we settled with US

21:37

Soccer on working conditions.

21:39

So if the guys are

21:41

flying Charter every time they

21:43

travel as a team and we're flying I

21:45

love Southwest, but like Southwest and have a layover,

21:49

why is that happening? And we have gone to a

21:51

place where we do have equal working

21:53

conditions in US Soccer has agreed to that. So

21:56

that issue has been

21:59

sorted out, which is great. And there's

22:01

certain things that have changed immensely

22:03

in my career from

22:06

when I started to now how

22:09

we operate and some of the things that we're given

22:11

and how we're taken care of. But again

22:13

that that's only one piece of the

22:16

puzzle in this legal

22:18

battle, and it took a lot to get there. There's

22:20

some change, Yeah, definitely, definitely,

22:23

we appreciate it. Constant fight for change,

22:25

Yeah, Yeah, for sure, for sure. So I

22:27

know that you mentioned, you know, the equal working

22:29

conditions, that's where you're kind of seeing the

22:32

change. But what about the salary. How does the

22:34

salary budget and allocation money work

22:36

in the NWSL. What are some obstacles

22:38

that you're facing with the current compensation

22:41

system. Yeah, so what's

22:43

interesting is that the way it's set up right now is

22:46

the end of cell p A negotiates

22:48

their c B A U s W and tp A

22:50

negotiates our c B A and

22:53

the way our CBA is currently set

22:55

up and it's over it expires at the end

22:57

of this year, so we're actually currently in cb negotiation

23:00

in which it's no secret because US Soccer

23:02

has talked about it publicly said some things that disacreed

23:04

with. But the way it works is right

23:07

now, national team players

23:09

are allocated to a team, and the national

23:12

team is paying their salary while also paying

23:14

for you know, when we come in for games that sort of thing

23:17

um, And there's a sixteen

23:19

man roster that

23:22

is also paid a salary by US

23:24

Soccer. So right

23:27

now, if you're an allocated player in the

23:29

league, you actually don't fall under

23:31

the end of a cell p A UM,

23:33

which in my opinion, I personally

23:35

would like to see it be separate. It would be you

23:37

play for your end of a cell team, you're paid by your end of

23:39

a cell team. You play for US Soccer, you're paid when

23:42

you go in to um US

23:44

soccer games, that sort of thing. But that's not

23:46

how it is right now. So right now, I

23:48

think we're in a very interesting place where

23:51

we have the end of a CELPA is negotiating

23:53

their first c B A and we

23:55

are negotiating a new CBA. And I

23:57

think if we can find a place where one helps

23:59

the other, I think that's the best case

24:01

scenario. But CB

24:04

negotiations are very difficult, and uh,

24:06

we'll see if that happens. I'm hopeful.

24:08

I'm always hopeful, even when

24:11

it bites me. The ass, gotcha,

24:13

alright, So let's let's flip it just

24:15

a little bit. Another very important thing

24:17

we want to talk about is, you know, we have a lot of major

24:19

athletes that have sat out of international competitions

24:22

to protest in equities. In your opinion,

24:24

Kelly, what needs to be done to move the needle

24:27

towards gender equality and soccer and

24:29

in sports in general. I

24:31

think my biggest thing with

24:34

gender inequity in sports

24:38

is the coverage and the visibility.

24:41

If that can change, I think

24:43

it could do incredible things

24:45

for women's sports.

24:48

For instance, four percent of media

24:50

coverage goes to women's sports,

24:53

which is why I got involved

24:55

with Just Women's Sports. It's a digital media company

24:57

that just covers women's sports, and I

24:59

know, oh how important visibility is

25:02

and coverage exactly.

25:05

So besides the pay, what

25:08

are you know some other aspects that you hope to

25:10

change to even the playing field for women

25:12

and men soccer players,

25:14

Just the treatment of players

25:16

and the professionalism

25:19

that surrounds it, whether it's facilities,

25:22

um, how we travel, just

25:24

in general, Like, there's there's just a different level

25:27

to professionalism that in my mind,

25:29

some teams do it, which I think is great and

25:31

within the league, but others are just still so

25:34

far behind. And I've been a part of both,

25:36

and it feels really

25:38

good to show up to work

25:41

in the morning and feel like a professional athlete.

25:43

And it changes how you're able to train and

25:46

approach the game. Yeah,

25:48

the perseverance there is so

25:50

key, Yes, absolutely, alright,

25:54

So let's talk about college soccer players,

25:56

Like, what would you recommend to college soccer

25:58

players who are thinking of going pro. So

26:01

the way college soccer is set up right now

26:03

is they play their season in the fall and then um

26:06

winter and spring is kind of like off

26:09

slash, just really lifting and a little bit of

26:11

training. But I would recommend that

26:13

they put in the time and

26:16

effort to prepare properly

26:19

for what professional soccer

26:21

will actually entail, because

26:23

I do think there's a big jump from from

26:25

college to the professional game in terms

26:28

of time spent on the field, um,

26:30

the level, the just

26:33

having to take care of yourself and not

26:35

being in a college environment, which most college

26:38

athletes have a great set up, and

26:40

it sometimes is a big drop

26:42

off from college to professional sports in terms

26:44

of what you're offered. I

26:47

just remember when I was thinking about

26:49

going pro or trying to get drafted in my

26:52

college coach Paul Ratcliffe called me and it

26:54

was like, you're too small. You need

26:56

to lift at least three times a week, be

26:58

in the gym on your own, like you need to be working

27:00

with the strength condition coach, and put in the

27:02

time because I want you to show up

27:05

as prepared as possible to preseason with

27:08

my to be professional team.

27:11

UM, committing yourself to it even

27:13

more than you are as a student athlete student

27:16

that you've got school to attend to, But

27:18

when you become a professional, like this is your only job

27:21

and you need to be ready to

27:23

perform day in and day out. So there's a lot of variables

27:25

that go into making sure you can do that when

27:27

you say this is your only job, and then the

27:30

pay reflects that you should have two

27:32

or three other ones, just

27:34

like, yeah, I don't know, it's true, it

27:37

is true. Hopefully one day it can be

27:39

the only thing you have to worry about. You don't worry about anything

27:41

else, But yeah, do you have any advice

27:44

for these athletes, whether you know any level high

27:46

school college pro um that are trying

27:48

to advocate for positive changes in their teams

27:50

and institutions like you're doing, how should they

27:52

go about it? I mean a lot of it is it's kind

27:54

of like brainstorming and strategizing and

27:56

figuring out what is possible

27:59

and how can I be part of

28:01

the solution as opposed to just talking

28:03

about the problem. Yes, absolutely,

28:06

I know anyone who's listening right now will

28:08

feel so much empowerment

28:10

to actually do that, because sometimes

28:13

we just need to hear it from someone who look up to and

28:15

it's much easier said than done, and it

28:17

takes a lot of effort and can be very difficult

28:19

and at times very scary. Um But at

28:22

the end of the day, you know, I don't think any

28:25

great thing has come from like sitting

28:27

on the sidelines and just hoping somebody

28:30

also do it. You know, absolutely. So

28:33

you're now the host of Just Women's

28:35

Sports podcast shout out to Just Women's

28:37

Sports. Could you tell me more about

28:39

that project? You know, what have you learned from

28:42

doing this project and your interviews with other female

28:44

athletes? Yeah,

28:46

I have loved it. It's been incredible.

28:48

I've gone to talk to some amazing humans

28:52

and athletes. And I

28:55

want women's sports to have equal coverage,

28:57

have the best coverage, you know, and

28:59

and to just go from where we are

29:01

now to where I think that it's

29:04

going to go. And part of that

29:06

is the media coverage is the visibility piece.

29:08

And so when I got put in touch

29:10

with the founder of JWS, Hailey

29:12

Rosen, who's also a Stanford soccer

29:14

player, she was a little bit after my

29:17

time, but I just kind of picked her brain and heard

29:19

what she was thinking. And this was very

29:21

much so when it was in its infancy and kind

29:24

of still an idea, but she was starting to

29:26

put the framework together and one of the

29:28

pieces she really wanted to

29:30

go after was having a podcast,

29:32

and and starting with one, but then you know, bringing in

29:34

more and I love listening podcasts,

29:36

and she was like, well, do you want to host it? And

29:39

I said, I don't know if

29:41

you know this, but I've never hosted a podcast. I don't know why

29:43

you would offer me this because I don't know if I'm even good

29:45

at it. But she eventually

29:47

convinced me of it. And and I'm really glad that I got

29:49

the opportunity to kind of get in on

29:51

the ground floor um with her

29:53

and JWS and be a part of building something.

29:56

And they're already doing so well and and

29:58

I think, um, you know, becoming a really

30:00

big mover in the space of covering women's

30:03

sports. And and I'm glad that I got to be like,

30:05

you know what, I know this is an issue. I know this is problem,

30:07

and I know that if this, we

30:09

need to improve this to get where I want to see women's

30:11

sports be. And and I

30:14

was able to be like, yeah, I'm gonna put skin in the game

30:16

and like put in the work and the effort to be a

30:18

part of this. So it's been great.

30:20

I love that. Amazing we

30:22

can relate. These conversations have been I

30:24

mean, yeah,

30:27

the conversations I've been able to have, Like I always

30:30

come away with just

30:33

being like, man, that was so cool,

30:35

Like I'm so inspired and

30:38

sometimes like there's no way this could be more

30:40

interesting than the last, or like different than

30:42

the last. But then every athlete has such interesting

30:44

perspectives, such different journeys.

30:47

It's been also of that. Well, we're

30:49

having a moment of that right now. It

30:52

definitely well, Kelly,

30:54

you're incredible. I mean, you're a professional

30:56

soccer player, business owner, podcast

30:58

host, I mean list goes on what

31:01

strategies do you have to juggle

31:04

several responsibilities while growing in your

31:06

sport? Oh my god, um

31:09

a lot? Like

31:11

no, truly, Like here's the thing, Like

31:14

you gotta take care of yourself if you want to do

31:16

anything beyond what is

31:18

just in your very small orbit or

31:20

like your day to debt, you know. And

31:23

for me, taking care of myself is paramount

31:26

in my in my career, at my job. Like I'm

31:28

a professional athlete, my body is

31:30

should be a temple. Sometimes it's not but it typically

31:33

is and like this

31:36

is what does the work. But on top of

31:38

that, in general, like if you don't take care of yourself,

31:40

you're not gonna be able to take care of anyone else. So I think

31:42

that for me, I'll say, yeah, I just

31:44

make sure that I sleep, eat well,

31:47

drink enough water, and try

31:49

to be able to juggle all these things schedule

31:52

accordingly. But then I also feel

31:54

like I do a good job of when I need

31:56

the time space and like to recover

31:58

and decompress, Like I set boundaries

32:01

and I'm just like I'm not available, like I can't

32:03

do this. I'm you know, I say

32:05

no. So I think that saying

32:07

no is sometimes just as great as saying

32:09

yes. A lot of times. I love that, and

32:12

we just put basic needs fronts.

32:15

You were hearing this from it FAM.

32:20

All right, Kelly, what's next for you in your career? You

32:22

have any upcoming projects or games that you'd like to

32:24

share with our listeners. Um

32:27

So, currently playing with the Washington Spirit.

32:30

And you see, if you are a DC local

32:32

like Monages, you come out to a game,

32:35

um and if you do, say hi, and

32:38

we're closing out our season, so we're coming up on

32:41

playoffs, which it's a very tight table

32:43

right now and we're trying

32:45

to clar away with enough points into that

32:48

so to be able to be in the nd CL playoffs,

32:50

which will take place in November. Um,

32:53

we have two games coming up with the national

32:55

team, and I'm in the middle of October which will be fun.

32:57

And then yeah, I'm looking forward to to Sember.

33:00

That's my off time. Maybe do a little vacation,

33:02

a little travel, but like

33:05

you said, things never stop, so I'm

33:07

constantly on the move doing

33:10

things, but also trying to get

33:12

enough sleep at night. So that's that's

33:14

what's on the priority day. Big takeaway.

33:16

Yes, I love it under

33:20

armours. Sweat the Details will be back after a short

33:23

break.

33:29

Welcome back to Sweat the Details. I

33:32

think it's time we play a little game. How about that? Love

33:35

yea, So this is a part of the show. We love to

33:37

just ask our guests some fun like rapid

33:39

fire questions. So for today's

33:41

game, we're playing goal

33:45

stretching. Now I'm just gonna get ahead.

33:48

I was trying not to like yell into the mic.

33:51

Is this like okay, okay okay. So

33:53

basically, so it's just gonna be like based

33:55

on things related to your passion for soccer and game

33:57

day routines. So we're just gonna ask

34:00

you question and then you just kind of answer first thing

34:02

that comes to mind. We may have like a question of

34:04

why. Your answer was that I

34:06

can do that pregame ritual. Pregame

34:09

ritual. I have a whole stretching

34:11

routine that I go to and then activation routine,

34:13

so pretty much that and then whoever's

34:16

DJ's bumping tunes and that

34:18

that always gets me in a good headspace. And

34:20

I usually meditate as well, either

34:23

on the way to the game or which

34:26

is like if you're busting or at the stadium.

34:29

Um, when I get into locker room, I'll meditate,

34:31

which like for five ten minutes max. But

34:33

I like to just I'm

34:36

I have enough energy, um, and

34:38

I get amped well

34:41

beyond what I need to be. So for me, it's like

34:43

bringing it back. Yeah,

34:46

yeah, like like coming down a little bit

34:48

so that I'm just super focused

34:51

and calm and just like ready

34:53

to go. I love how like different all

34:56

of us are. Like I'm I'm definitely different.

34:58

I'm like I have nervous energy, but I need

35:00

like I need craziness beforehand.

35:03

Yes, I don't know like I have to because

35:06

it's too much like I don't know, I get ahead. Yeah,

35:09

I used to be that way for sure. When I was younger, I was

35:11

like, yeah, like let's go,

35:13

but way more chill. I probably

35:16

need to tune it down a bit. Maybe that's

35:18

where I'm like, where that's the miss I got it. I'm

35:20

writing that day now. I found

35:22

that when I was like so amped, I was more tense

35:24

and like muscularly. It just didn't

35:27

work out like I would like tweak things. So it was just

35:29

like, oh, like, let's go, Like I'm so nervous and so

35:31

excited. Way more chill, calm,

35:34

collect chill vibes. I'm gonna try that next time.

35:37

Yes, chills all around, all

35:39

right. Favorite goal that you've ever scored?

35:42

Um, I

35:45

scored in the semifinal of

35:47

the World Cup and

35:51

that was pretty sick and I think it was my It was my first

35:53

goal with the national team, which was kind of funny,

35:57

but yeah, that was probably the biggest school

35:59

I've ever scored for sure made special.

36:02

Yeah. Um, we

36:04

were winning one zero against Germany. I

36:07

think it was probably like the seventy nine

36:09

something like that. Very late in the game, I had subbed

36:11

on not even five minutes earlier,

36:14

and Jill Ellis, are coach at the time, was like, you're

36:17

going in there. You're in the defense, and I was like yes,

36:19

ma'am. And then I

36:21

found myself in the box because I was playing winger

36:23

and we like how to play

36:25

where Abby got the ball, played

36:27

in to Cling, Cling, played it Carly, Carly

36:30

got endline and like just put it across the goal and I

36:32

just like almost like Karate kicked

36:34

it into the goal, which is beautiful, cald

36:36

it and and it was just I was insane because that

36:38

was that goal made it be like, Okay, well, oh

36:40

my god, we're going to the World Cup final again. Oh

36:42

my god, you gotta

36:45

put something. Everyone's like, oh my god. It

36:47

was like, how did Kelly just score? Yeah,

36:50

like what Kelly never scores and like literally

36:52

never scores. So um, Karate

36:54

kicks for the win. Best way

36:56

to celebrate a win. I mean, a beer's

36:58

a nice post game. I I feel

37:00

like I used to do that more in my twenties. Now I'm

37:02

like water sign um,

37:05

but honestly relaxing.

37:09

Yeah, yeah, just I mean I'm

37:11

down for like pizza and

37:13

chill and depends on how big the win is,

37:15

Like I'm thinking just weekend, week out with the league.

37:18

Honestly to me, in season,

37:21

we win and I'm like I'm already thinking about next week,

37:23

how can I recover? How can I be ready for practice

37:26

this week? That sort of thing. So um,

37:28

but if it's a big win like a World Cup

37:30

or an Olympics, like it's get the champagne

37:32

out, the beer, let's let's party,

37:35

it depends on the men. Yeah,

37:38

okay, yeah makes sense, all

37:42

right. Last one favorite soccer

37:44

player growing up. My

37:46

favorite soccer player growing up was probably Julie

37:48

found She was a winger, and

37:51

because I actually didn't really know much about Stanford

37:53

growing up, but like I knew that she was

37:55

smart or like had gone to a good school and

37:58

so and I was, as a kid really big

38:00

and I was like into school and um,

38:03

cared about that sort of thing. So it's like, oh,

38:05

like be like her, you know, good at soccer but

38:07

also smart. So yeah, probably really

38:09

about beautiful. I love that, all

38:12

right. You've you've survived dark. Yeah

38:15

it hasn't been really nice. It has been. Um,

38:18

it's it's refreshing. You

38:20

are incredible in all forms.

38:22

Were so thankful to have had this conversation with

38:25

you, Kelly. Thank you. That's

38:27

very kind. Well, I've really enjoyed it, so thank you guys

38:29

for having me. Yes, can you share a little

38:31

bit about where everyone can find you online?

38:34

Yeah, I'm on the Graham Kelly

38:36

O'Hara. Um, i am

38:39

on Twitter. I don't think I've opened Twitter and literally

38:41

months, so um, maybe don't go there.

38:44

Um. And then I host Just One Sports

38:46

podcast, so go follow Just One Sports

38:49

and go download some of the podcasts

38:51

and listen to them because there are some great conversations.

38:54

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Kelly. This

38:56

has been such a great conversation and hopefully we'll

38:59

get to chat agains soon. Definitely,

39:01

thank you guys. I appreciate it. Meg.

39:09

My mind is blown right now talking

39:11

to Kelly about all things, one

39:13

her greatness on the field, and two

39:16

being a pioneer for equal pay

39:18

in professional sports in general for women

39:21

is a job in and of itself.

39:24

So I'm just thinking about the moments where

39:26

she talked about even going into court

39:28

and that kind of mental battle, emotional

39:31

battle, and her ability to still

39:33

be growing and grinding

39:35

it out and continuing the conversation. I'm

39:37

just I'm so thankful to be able to shared that

39:40

energy with her. Yeah, I I feel fired

39:42

up. Like, you know, as a woman, you know

39:44

that this is probably an issue

39:46

across sports everywhere, but

39:49

to hear firsthand, it's very frustrating.

39:51

Um, it just seems like every conversation that

39:54

we've had, I just realized more and more just

39:56

how different, you know, women's sports

39:58

are treated and value. And

40:01

I'm so incredibly thankful for women

40:03

like Kelly who are constantly fighting the

40:05

system demanding equal

40:07

rights. It's so inspiring and will hopefully

40:09

encourage, you know, younger generations to recognize

40:12

their own worth and shoot for goals

40:14

that you know, they may have never seen as

40:16

possible. If when we had another few hours to chat,

40:18

I want to keep on chatting with her. Kelly Is She's

40:21

such a phenomenal woman, she said earlier.

40:23

Um that you know, it's a very passionate

40:26

overpay situation when she, you know, just

40:28

got into professional sports. And

40:30

I feel that on the

40:33

greatest level, like I'm just happy

40:35

to be here turns into

40:38

now I literally can't even afford to be here,

40:40

and that's painful. You know. We think about

40:42

it from a level of like women in corporate

40:44

America or just in any situation

40:46

of work. But then it goes into I am

40:49

using my body day in and day

40:51

out, you know, sacrificing my

40:53

safety to put on the best and most

40:56

entertaining show for the fans,

40:58

and the people were truly passionate, and I'm seeing very

41:00

very little for it, and it's like, you know, what

41:02

do I have left after that? So, you know,

41:04

my heart goes out to women

41:07

in professional sports who are feeling that

41:09

same struggle that many of us do in our

41:11

everyday lives. Yeah,

41:13

you know, and she also spoke about coverage

41:15

and visibility and how that definitely

41:18

needs improvement. What did she say?

41:20

A four percent for person of media

41:23

coverage goes to women's sports, Like,

41:25

are you kidding me? They're not covering,

41:27

they're not giving visibility to women, so

41:30

they just assume, Okay, well they don't have this coverage,

41:32

so they don't deserve equal pay.

41:34

And it's just absurd to me. It's completely

41:37

outrageous, and I'm so glad that she's out

41:39

there fighting and hopefully other people are getting an encourage.

41:41

Now. You know, it could be you're in high school or

41:44

you're in college, maybe you're not at that pro level.

41:46

But look at your organization around

41:48

you and be just be more aware what is

41:50

happening around you. Are you just being complacent to what

41:53

it is? Or is there something that I could do? Could

41:55

I speak up? Could I team up with the teammate and

41:57

use our voice. It's rough, but

41:59

I know that this conversation and the ones

42:01

that we continue to have and continue to put

42:04

women on a platform that

42:06

can really reach more women and

42:08

even the men that are supportive

42:10

in that way, is definitely going to be

42:12

a game changer. So I'm so happy for that conversation.

42:15

On the other hand, are you

42:17

working on over there? I

42:19

want to hear about your goals moving into

42:21

this week and this portion. Y'all we talk

42:24

about our goals and do check ins on where

42:26

we are with them, and you know, just try

42:28

to speak on how we can continue

42:30

to support one another. So Meg, what you got

42:33

going on? Well, Um,

42:35

I am on my last day of recovery

42:37

today. I've been doing a lot of stretching, some mobility

42:40

stuff in the garage. Nothing

42:42

where I'm like lifting weight, just because I'm

42:45

telling you, like, i could barely walk up my

42:47

stairs. But now that I've stretched

42:49

and I've kind of slowly started getting

42:51

back into it. I think tomorrow I'm going to get under

42:53

the bar and we're gonna see

42:55

what happens this week. I'm excited. I think

42:57

I'm gonna focus on dead left and bench press

43:00

as I get back into things first, because

43:02

those are obviously my favorite. I

43:04

love it. That's about where I am right now. And

43:07

um, I've had some people. Thank you

43:09

to everyone who has sent me a d M and

43:11

been very encouraging since I was kind

43:13

of like not online very

43:16

much. And I did get some really sweet messages that

43:18

we're telling me, um that they just wanted

43:20

to check in and see how I was doing, and they were

43:22

so proud um of me, you

43:24

know, and under armour and they just felt so happy

43:27

and excited for the representation, and

43:29

so that kind of got me pumped up.

43:31

That's kind of where I am now. And

43:34

yeah, yeah, I mean I

43:36

was talking to my coach about you today.

43:39

It was my first session back in the

43:41

gym since our shoot, and

43:43

I was like, Meg was in here throwing that weight

43:45

around like it was pillows and I still

43:48

amped up from it. So good

43:51

job to you, Meg, Because recovery

43:53

is just as important, just like Kelly was saying,

43:56

it's freaking amazing. I've

43:58

just gotten through. I can't believe I'm

44:00

saying this. I just got through the

44:02

best and most manageable period I've ever had in

44:04

my life. And I understand

44:06

that it's been a over

44:09

a year of working on you know, sinking

44:11

my cycle and doing the hard work of trying

44:13

to sit down when I need to doing

44:15

more recovery than work, doing the

44:18

right kind of work for the right

44:20

phase. And it feels so good

44:22

to be there, and now I just want

44:24

to get back into this phase

44:26

of putting in the right kind of work. I

44:28

am a month out from my fight,

44:32

and this month I want to pick up the

44:34

skill and the tenacity

44:36

and the heart that it takes. And that doesn't

44:38

require for me to necessarily do more. It

44:41

requires for me to, you know, in

44:43

the moment, be more and stay focused.

44:45

So thank you to everyone who is also

44:48

Yeah. I mean, it's that grows

44:50

more and more meaningful to me as I get older,

44:53

is you know, being more

44:55

in the moment and creating and

44:58

engaging in quality moments, quality

45:00

sessions, quality sets over

45:02

feeling like I need to do all of the sets

45:04

just for the sake of doing it, because it's expected.

45:07

So thank you, so you, Meg, and

45:09

to everybody else who has been out here

45:11

cheer me on. Those of you, you know, really

45:14

supporting me and my hopes to get

45:16

closer with those who

45:18

have been affected by cancer and you

45:21

know, really trying to bring my best fight forward.

45:23

It's it's meant the world to me, Um and

45:26

shout out to the sweat

45:28

the details, behind the scenes production

45:31

staff team. You a y'all have

45:33

given us life the last week. Cannot

45:35

say it enough. Being a part of this team is absolutely

45:38

a blessing. It's been so incredible.

45:40

So y'all keep up with us,

45:43

keep up with all of us, because we are living

45:46

our best life together and we want you on this

45:48

vibe absolutely. Well,

45:51

that's it for this week's episode, but don't forget

45:53

to join us next week when we talk about goals

45:56

and benchmarks and how we can set ourselves

45:58

up for success with creating real listic

46:00

objectives for our training. All

46:02

of that, thank you for joining us Fit

46:04

fam. If you liked what you heard on the show, subscribe

46:06

for free or follow the show on the I Heart Radio app,

46:09

Apple podcast, or wherever you listen,

46:11

and don't forget to leave that five

46:13

star rating and review. Please

46:15

do five star, five star, five star.

46:18

You guys. Until next time, Stay inspired,

46:20

stay motivated, and remember to always

46:22

sweat the Details. Bye bye.

46:37

If you liked what you heard on the show, subscribe for free

46:39

or follow the show on the I Heart Radio app,

46:41

Apple podcast or wherever you listen, and

46:43

don't forget to leave a five star rating and review.

46:46

Sweat the Details is a collaboration with under

46:49

Armour and I Heart Radio. Our show is hosted

46:51

by me Monica Jones and me

46:53

Meg Box. Our executive producers

46:55

are just strip Stein, Just Sell, Louis Archfald,

46:58

Molly Sosha and Maya. Our

47:00

producers are Kelly and Tole, Layla

47:02

Cadrian, Emma Osborne and Alejandra

47:05

Arrivalo. And our sound editor

47:07

and engineer is Sarah gibel Leska.

47:10

Keep up the latest news in women's fitness

47:12

by following under Armour at under Armour Women

47:14

and at under Armour