0:00

It's punk rock Bowling time. That's

0:02

right for the twenty fourth year.

0:04

One of the greatest festivals on

0:07

earth in my opinion. Returns downtown

0:09

Las Vegas the weekend of May,

0:11

Twenty fifth, twenty six, and twenty

0:13

seventh. I have had some my

0:15

greatest times playing this thing just

0:17

hanging out of this thing. You

0:19

wanna know how much this vessel

0:22

speaks to turn out of punks

0:24

mindset. The headliners are de Veau

0:26

descendants and madness Every day of

0:28

this festival. the line. Be stacked

0:30

with amazing bands of all

0:32

types and stripes or Pumpkin

0:34

Hardcore from all different errors

0:36

Scar to post hardcore advertising

0:38

like Brammo Beal, to Rock

0:41

From the Crypt, Too Stiff

0:43

Little Fingers, to The Cosmic

0:45

Psychos, to Scowled Jet Age.

0:47

And then there's also all these

0:50

late night after shows which are

0:52

happening and you wouldn't believe the

0:54

line of of the his things

0:56

from the Zeroes do Agnostic Front

0:58

and everything in between. This festival

1:00

is. Add. A Control.

1:03

For. Fans of punk so I hope

1:05

I will see you there cause this

1:07

isn't like some sort of vessel these

1:10

go to in the bands or secluded

1:12

and some sort of backstage area. Bands

1:14

in fans and just punks alike are

1:16

all just taking over downtown Las Vegas.

1:19

See, turn around and all's and you're

1:21

gambling beside John Doe from Max the

1:23

I Don't Earn of John Doe. Gambles.

1:26

But if you turn around buffet line you

1:28

probably see me and you better believe it

1:30

can be talking about punk music. And because

1:32

this festival loves this podcast as much as

1:35

this podcast. Love this festival! Punk.

1:37

Rock Bowling is bringing you a series

1:39

of special episode so each and every

1:41

week I will have an episode go

1:43

and up. Featuring. Someone that's

1:45

playing this festival in Hot Damn

1:47

either. Some good ones? Come on,

1:50

Head. Over to Punk Rock bowling.com

1:52

and hopefully I see you in

1:54

Downtown Las Vegas! May. Twenty

1:57

Fifth. Twenty Six. And twenty. The

2:00

future as I have the responsibility and not

2:02

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3:28

Hello and welcome to a

3:30

very special turned out of

3:32

punk punk rock Boeing episode

3:34

or the ad Off the

3:36

top Out or down in

3:38

Las Vegas as day on

3:40

the show. Or. War

3:43

with excited for you to do this

3:45

one waiting to release it will now.

3:47

Cerebral. Because the reunion starts

3:49

Now. On. Issue

3:51

Today. Will

3:54

Joe. Repo. So. And

3:57

Chris rest. From a

3:59

band. R K L Rich

4:01

Kids on L S D Whole

4:03

boy is a good one. Lotta

4:05

love the great stuff. Have you

4:07

been a failed his bike? As

4:10

for a while you know that

4:12

are kills one of those bands.

4:14

It's gonna legendary over the course

4:16

of the show. So to be

4:18

able to sit down with now

4:20

on the two members of his

4:22

band and hear their journeys of

4:24

you're in for a treat. Our

4:26

first heard the email address turn

4:28

It upon podcast ads email.com. To

4:30

get in touch with me I find

4:33

me on Twitter instagram outlet for Damien

4:35

turn it upon his all sorts of

4:37

social media stuff he can find on

4:39

those platforms. I played a ban to

4:42

recalled fucked up Find A More Information

4:44

fucked Up.c C the at some new

4:46

records out and and lots of other

4:48

stuff more. Nelson's coming soon. But

4:52

this is all about. Our. Kale!

4:54

Huge thank you to Vanessa and

4:56

Christina at Mutiny Pr and of

4:58

course. My. Little brother, trust

5:00

neighbor him for a sudden this whole

5:03

thing up for me because oh boy

5:05

has a set off the top. This.

5:07

Is one of those ones hi?

5:10

Chris rest end of Joe have gone

5:12

on to do lots of other stuff

5:14

lag way in and and. Bad.

5:16

Astronauts are tons of bands they

5:18

played and very very accomplished musicians.

5:21

And now they are getting back together with

5:24

the band that started it all off for

5:26

like oh, Bacsik, both of whom. Are.

5:28

Gal Kids and Lsd. And

5:31

sadly as Jason and Bomber

5:33

are no longer with us

5:35

on vocals. They.

5:37

Got our boy tony. From.

5:39

Municipal waste. And. Oh

5:41

my gosh am I excited to see

5:43

this or this will be going down.

5:46

May twenty fifth in Las Vegas. A

5:48

punk rock bowling but starting on May

5:50

first the been a bunch his shows.

5:52

The only one that actually looks like

5:54

it has any tickets left for it

5:57

is the final May Fifth show in

5:59

Los Angeles. The know fingers very

6:01

many left of those. So grab

6:03

tickets and go to those shows.

6:05

And ticket Any and all music

6:08

by our kale of fascinating band

6:10

and amazing man. Lots of different

6:12

areas and involving stuff. A hugely

6:14

influential than as we. Go.

6:16

On a lot about in the second

6:18

so you're at a cyber that and

6:20

I guess I'll see in Vegas I'll

6:22

be down in Las Vegas for Rtl

6:24

and I will be there for. All.

6:27

Those headliners. It's it's. gonna be a

6:29

show. It's a fun time. But.

6:31

In till then, sit back,

6:34

relax and enjoy. Low.

6:36

Joe. And. Chris. From.

6:39

Our Kl. On. Turned out

6:41

upon. All

6:49

for coming on the show.

6:51

Ravenous! Damien Think you. Will.

6:53

Add the risk of repeating myself immediately

6:55

after I said this: You guys are

6:57

the most storied band. When

7:00

it comes to this podcast in it comes

7:02

up time and time again and I think.

7:06

Prior to this I was always a fan

7:08

of our kale because I got the records

7:10

of here. It is part of like the

7:12

punk rock lexicon but for doing a pike

7:14

as have really come to appreciate the. Next.

7:17

Is the influence because of the impact

7:19

or kale had on Punk in just.

7:22

Out much had shifted. everything. And

7:26

the diamond and we didn't seem to

7:28

be making any impact maybe after we

7:30

broke up of the best ones never

7:32

do during their time you know think

7:34

the while the set in the impact.

7:38

The other impact was basically

7:40

ah taken a toll on

7:42

our constitution. as far from

7:44

willpower for would you consider

7:46

the impact on our faces?

7:48

the death of us If.

7:51

We ever get it. I guess that's the other

7:54

part of this ban I think Chris flip. And

7:56

even says that Rtl is a cursed

7:58

fan and the there. Sort

8:00

of like. The. A not

8:02

to make light of if there is sort of this darkness,

8:04

they kind of. Is running throughout the

8:07

history of the band up to a

8:09

certain point. I think

8:11

there may be doing any eighties punk

8:13

band. I mean it was kind of.

8:15

arrest. A

8:18

male under the circumstances with Joe.

8:20

I. Think. He joined the

8:22

man and within months we're going to

8:24

Europe and we've landed in Amsterdam. I

8:27

think him spend like a week there.

8:29

You never left the Bay Area as

8:31

far as I know. That

8:33

till you're a minor, right? Yeah, To

8:36

be signed over. Yeah.

8:38

That is correct. Ah, my parents

8:40

weren't gonna let me go at

8:43

all and. So.

8:45

I'm a took a lot

8:47

of that. Is it. A

8:50

lot of. Explaining

8:53

I'm a took a lot of

8:55

people in my corner of one

8:57

of the biggest. One.

9:01

Of the biggest people that had influenced

9:03

my parents had to letting. Me:

9:05

Go was my high school

9:07

principal appetite. And

9:10

and he. Thought.

9:12

Was cool. I went to the continuation high

9:14

school so it was like it was different.

9:17

There. Were a lot of you

9:19

know. Baby.

9:22

Mamas at the school with their

9:24

kids have been there. was a

9:26

daycare at the school. So

9:28

it was able to school for

9:30

troubled youth. but our principal doc

9:32

was super cool A when I

9:34

told him I have an opportunity

9:37

to tour euro a certain yeah

9:39

get a seat was like you'd

9:41

need to do this. he be

9:43

the go because you're gonna. You're.

9:46

Going to look for more during this

9:48

whole experience and you ever are in

9:50

high school here Whatever. you could always

9:52

come back and m finish. Your.

9:55

Year I was on a five

9:57

year plan after that to. We

10:00

thank you for jacket. You could finish

10:02

high school here and we totally support

10:04

you and I was like well my

10:06

parents are gonna let me go civil

10:08

you call them and talk to them.

10:10

And. So he did. And.

10:13

He somehow he convinced them.

10:16

Some that big a full well I

10:18

didn't know that are in story Sesame

10:20

Now. Instead. Of

10:22

awesome that. You. Have

10:24

an educator like that who could see that.

10:27

It's like, obviously this was. Your. Destiny.

10:30

To do this sort of thing in to see a bad

10:32

early and be like know this kid has to do a

10:34

note and I'm a parent now. And. I

10:36

would hope that I'd have the courage to let my

10:39

kid run off. Maybe. Not with Rtl,

10:41

but runoff as a fantasy or. Was

10:44

the band's name again? Yeah. I

10:47

think the reason why my parents

10:49

were okay with it or to

10:51

is because they're old school Portuguese

10:53

right then. No idea really wet

10:55

roads were about the so they

10:57

didn't know what Lsd was it.

11:00

I don't think that my brother

11:02

sister have a hard to tell

11:04

them what was. So

11:07

far as they were concerned, they just knew

11:09

the name of the ban was our tail.

11:11

You know if. It

11:13

is that it as you know

11:15

what that math as hard. To

11:17

find other meanings for that

11:19

acronym. Remember the cops as

11:21

new and men one time as I. Read.

11:25

Clan of. Wizards in the

11:27

Summer and communist reptile

11:29

mannerism. As

11:32

I think it's. Definitely. Well

11:35

we're to get into all this felt when I got

11:37

a ton of sorts of sabu. They all start off

11:39

which is. Asking. You guys have

11:41

you gotten upon. But I guess we'll kind of

11:43

work chronologically and so I'll start with you press:

11:45

How did you get a puncture The first time

11:47

ever came across it. Okay so

11:49

I thought to be fussy. Jews

11:52

were punk when when I first

11:54

heard them and diva. And

11:57

so I thought I was punk as I loved

11:59

both. The Man browse also super

12:01

into fm rock radio. I played

12:04

drums and guitar so is it

12:06

me I'd put on Led Zeppelin

12:08

and and Rock Out and That

12:11

and is super into the Cars

12:13

and Cheap Tricks and Boston. And

12:15

to say anything that I heard

12:17

on the on fm radio because.

12:21

I didn't have any older siblings that would

12:23

you tell me on was cool so I

12:25

didn't know Kiss and like a lot of

12:28

the kids in my generation we're in. This.

12:30

Case back then and. For.

12:32

Some reason that never crossed my

12:35

path. And on that one the

12:37

first punk records that I ever

12:39

heard and held in my hands

12:41

was the Class London Calling album.

12:44

And as because. I'm one

12:46

of the people was re a room for

12:48

my parents, had a record collection at the

12:50

house and I was just going through his

12:52

records of yeah that one and only album

12:54

and I. I was. I

12:57

saw her cover as I got here

12:59

this and has totally under that records.

13:02

Mad No idea that was punk rock and off.

13:04

And. Then I've saw something on on are

13:07

no might have been P B S. News.

13:09

So this punk rock show in

13:11

London I believe sisters people with

13:14

safety pins in their face and

13:16

they're eating red yellow off a

13:18

baby daughter was like. Totally.

13:20

Turned off as like this is not

13:22

something that means is disgusting. And

13:26

this size. Yeah, we lived

13:28

in Santa Barbara the time and

13:30

I saw that Black Flag was

13:33

playing. In Santa Barbara

13:35

and I knew that they were a punk

13:37

rock band. I did as I knew about

13:39

them. And. I

13:41

was too too young to go to that show.

13:44

So my friends that I've later

13:47

in junior high school. Discover.

13:49

Real punk rock on.

13:53

Had gone to a few shows in L

13:55

A before. I never even been to a

13:57

show on as I can I think too

13:59

scared. Go down in L A and own

14:01

I'm I'm my parents were to let me there

14:03

to than we do with anything I wanted. Really?

14:05

That. They.

14:08

Are that London Calling record I

14:10

listen to a little lot on.

14:12

Had no idea that was a

14:14

punk rock record. Now go on.

14:16

and then I put on Yellow

14:18

are Cheap Trick just in my

14:20

rotation. Have like six records and

14:22

I listen to all the time.

14:24

play drums, do. I

14:27

get waiting period. shoes or punk bands? Fred

14:30

was on the show so oh

14:32

really awesome service. Bread actually talk

14:35

like he saves a deficit. See

14:37

a lightsaber? Just go hey the

14:39

and I and allow it's also

14:41

to be obvious but. I

14:45

wish I got mad excited that he actually

14:47

had to break into that boys. But now

14:49

Eternal Like is like get ugly. You know

14:51

you can tell that voices there. But

14:53

he told the down when he's

14:56

would waxing Nostalgic about seeing the

14:58

Sex Pistols or something. But

15:01

I think that's a great thing about pumpkin that first.

15:03

Period. Is that? It

15:06

doesn't really have a sonic

15:08

identity. Were like. Depot.

15:11

Fit Sand beaches to sit in have to

15:13

the class fits in and they're sort of

15:15

This. Openness

15:17

to the whole thing. And I've

15:19

obviously that changes as. As.

15:21

It progresses but at first wave

15:24

is awesome because it's just. What?

15:26

The hell is this? All

15:29

that, the whole scene around Cbgb

15:32

was so cool and blondie it's

15:34

and the pretenders. And.

15:37

Talking Heads in all those cool bands

15:39

and we're gonna new wave and and

15:41

some of them are park and then

15:43

like him and and major labels grabbed

15:46

hold of Blondie and made them and

15:48

disco. Man in knows can. A.

15:50

Bummer. but it was. I still have those

15:53

records even though they. I

15:55

knew they were. Originally a

15:57

disco mad. I

16:00

will use your when you Gerard The first time you kind of

16:02

came across it. Yeah so

16:04

ah. Chronologically.

16:07

Ah, I said I had

16:09

actually thought that the surf ugh

16:11

smoke births are fit as or

16:13

is so much bad but I

16:16

thought because they had on in

16:18

their name. I I really

16:20

thought that that was planted so I want

16:22

to say said they were for you know

16:24

they were actually apart bad because they would,

16:27

They were snotty and and they're in. Their

16:29

lyrics were funny and Leno was very punk

16:31

rock to If you think about it you

16:34

know. I'm for yeah. so

16:36

I thought the surpluses park and

16:38

that was like my introduction into

16:40

it, but just because I'm taken

16:42

out with you know, other skateboarders

16:44

and and so like we just

16:46

thought it was was hilarious. But

16:48

I take my arm. Move

16:51

in The. Eighth grade.

16:53

Ah, I. Met the

16:56

site kid and. And. He

16:58

must have been like. Probably.

17:00

About eleven years old and he used

17:03

to skateboard out in front of his

17:05

his mom sauce. Over this past

17:07

fall of day and he looked like

17:09

a plunker which would be skateboarding and

17:11

a mural on what's going on with

17:13

this kid you know, and and so

17:15

we tata gravitated to. I'm a little

17:17

bit. And and. And

17:20

he was like listening to like real

17:22

Poc. A was a trip

17:24

because he site will kind of music

17:27

do you listen to get out while

17:29

the blonde and and I think it

17:31

would be just said the search on

17:33

said he was like fuck it's hot

17:35

in here has another year old kids

17:38

still exists and forty year old kid

17:40

you know like what part is on

17:42

what what what is part any He

17:44

would make mistakes for us and I

17:46

believe the first which states that he

17:49

made was a. He. Was

17:51

the adolescence first album on

17:53

one side. And and

17:55

of Anarchy in the Uk by the

17:57

Sex Pistols or The Other Side So.

18:00

When I went home and and listen

18:02

to those saw or those albums and

18:04

saw. Was. Like holy fuck

18:06

man this shit it's cool Are

18:08

you do great albums though? Right

18:10

on cue are albums like what

18:13

what rate albums to get someone

18:15

into the horror genre? Of those

18:17

to you know, On. And

18:19

I just thought it was best thing ever.

18:22

So I i I would go back and

18:24

I'd be like what else he got, what

18:26

else he got and up until that point

18:28

you know my my brother introduced me to

18:30

surf rock at an early age because he

18:32

was about three years older than me at

18:35

the time. So. He was he

18:37

would come in with T. purple. And

18:39

Black Sabbath and. Led

18:42

Zep landed a Cbc I remember we

18:44

almost and like. Every A

18:46

C D H D C album at home

18:48

and he would flail the time. So.

18:51

That was my introduction. It's a hard

18:53

music and have visited south on. But.

18:55

Yeah, I was that kid. Tyler was

18:57

his name. I forget his

18:59

last name, but. But. He'll introduce me

19:01

as a punk rock is so I go

19:04

back and ask for more mix tapes and

19:06

sarah he would introduce me to to Black

19:08

Flag. A. D I then he

19:10

would give me like a pointers on

19:12

top elation and then once I got

19:15

into skateboarding a little bit more it's

19:17

only the slots said he met other

19:19

hit pots and then they would. Introduce.

19:22

More music to you and then like

19:24

and ride around. That time I think

19:26

it was probably about. What?

19:28

Eighty Three. Or Four. Eighty Four, You

19:30

know. everything was just off and off

19:32

at that. That's

19:35

also how I got into the starting out

19:37

seat of was. Was. I believe

19:39

my on my freshman year of high

19:41

school. But. He had bought

19:43

The Miss A compilation. And

19:46

and then we were listening to that. And

19:48

then I believe like my my

19:50

first compilation was rap music for

19:52

rak People dig as remember that

19:54

s agree? absolutely. Yes,

19:57

Because I was er fess was rotten.

20:00

Right? Tales of Terror. Flipper was on

20:02

their right. And. The.

20:05

Red one I read record with

20:07

the black most like Rafol really

20:09

does Volume one boy to and

20:11

I was too valuable on yeah

20:13

primers I was angry someones or

20:15

lama to maybe. Arm

20:17

I believe so. Yeah.

20:19

Don't Fantastic obligation muzzle still have

20:21

a bunch of on my love

20:24

Were a Cdc kind of sits

20:26

in pumps you know, like in

20:28

America and Canada. It's. It's

20:31

different, rather like a rock band, but like

20:33

look at those early kind of Australian years

20:35

that ban. There's like even a flyer that

20:37

I saw last summer's they are for show

20:39

they are playing and like seventy six and

20:41

it's all. Kind of messy. seventy

20:43

seven because Zoellick sex to sold out. Think

20:45

in kind of like Neon green and it's

20:47

has punk rock in the top and like

20:50

when they have when it came over the

20:52

place Cbgb is apparently one time and blew

20:54

everyone away and them when they played away.

20:56

on the first tour The Dogs opened up

20:58

from the Detroit punk band so they did.

21:01

You come a have like a. A.

21:03

Place in pounds in and. We

21:05

hear it. It does turn out like and

21:07

the same way that Radio Birdman has that

21:10

kind of. Realness. To

21:12

it like a Cdc definitely has

21:14

that point of this. always stay

21:16

sober. I mean they never like

21:18

when for that over produce like

21:21

sound and angus to this day

21:23

I believe doesn't use any paddles,

21:25

he just goes straight into a

21:27

marshall and as cranks in Athens.

21:32

That's punk rock right there on his Rock

21:34

is Rock and Roll. It's like straight up.

21:37

Rock and Roll and Anger is probably

21:39

my favorite guitar player. Of

21:42

all time he has his i

21:44

think you can underrated like. I

21:47

mean one once you start trying to imitate

21:49

or to play some really fresh where you

21:51

can put on both will now and it

21:53

doesn't really sound. Dated.

21:56

In in the way that even records that

21:58

were female way later. so dated. Superman

22:00

nineties consume really dated compared to those.

22:02

Things. Yeah,

22:05

yeah, I didn't they. They're

22:07

just really good. Great.

22:09

Like. Produce Adults. You know, if it's

22:11

I. Am just they figured

22:13

out a way to like. If.

22:16

You could ever polish park. At

22:18

that point it was just I

22:20

think it was just getting a

22:22

good rock sound. You know, like

22:25

a lot of love. Really?

22:27

Really great early eighties albums.

22:31

You know they they dislike to the right studio

22:33

and they got the right producer, an engineer to

22:35

just. Polish. Up with they had but.

22:38

Make. It still sounds really wrong. you

22:40

know? Another.

22:42

Man that I was like super into

22:45

an hour before I discover punk rock

22:47

was the Nac and I remember when

22:49

on. The. National the sudden

22:51

had a his and my serrano

22:53

and all these people were furious

22:55

because they were kind of considered

22:57

upon banner thing before that and

22:59

I actually went to go see

23:01

the Nac in. The first real

23:03

punk rocker I ever saw in

23:05

my life was at that show.

23:07

Since I'm so into the season

23:09

I was like. Thirteen. Years

23:12

old and this punk rocker with

23:14

spikes hair was wearing a leather

23:16

jacket and ensues block letters on

23:18

the back of his leather jackets

23:20

and fuck the next and hundred

23:22

and six business he must have

23:24

probably like them and then they

23:26

say came home this his record

23:28

he owns you like fuck them

23:30

and youths and in turn our

23:32

they see was the singer and

23:34

I think Santa Barbara's first punk

23:36

rock band called the Strap On

23:38

Dixon. his name's. Chris. Syphilis.

23:40

His first movie is Syphilis say

23:43

yes to strap on differ from

23:45

Carpentaria was is like a sleepy

23:47

a little church. he served down

23:50

and I call I like Mayberry

23:52

on surfboards. Do they preferred it

23:54

records or are they know I

23:57

heard there are terrible. I

24:00

never heard in years. In is awesome them and

24:02

I never got to see him. I think they

24:04

play as I say how high school quad it's

24:06

a carpentry. a high school. Com.

24:09

But I'm is as they must have gotten

24:11

a lot of. I mean even when I

24:14

started high school i got all kinds of

24:16

she just for having short hair and in

24:18

like and the think you know has been

24:20

going. I didn't even look that park or

24:22

like. These. Guys were in

24:25

the nineteen eighties and that

24:27

was a big deal and

24:30

pound my carpinteria. Yeah.

24:32

That's why I love that you

24:35

gotta love that name. the strap

24:37

on it's yeah, some. Still

24:40

just columns. Other strap on

24:42

the news was inappropriate disease.

24:45

In a whole name of for the next

24:47

to our kind of the what you're saying.

24:50

Almost. Part. Of the policy

24:52

and honestly the inheritors of were that

24:54

Blondie. Power pop stuff goes Vegas

24:56

Blondie to your nerves, cover like there

24:59

is that sort of. Punk.

25:01

That is that really the last? And. So.

25:03

The deep heavy sort. Of. Winning

25:05

on melody right off the top with the those

25:08

that Sabine's. There's.

25:12

So much I love of

25:14

that era. Have you almost

25:17

New wave, almost punk bands

25:19

are so many cool ones

25:21

I or anyone avenue and

25:24

around the i think that's

25:26

when like that. Like

25:29

mid stage, where are. These

25:31

bans probably were apart. At

25:34

a certain time. Or another on.

25:36

But. Everly fans are park is You could tell.

25:39

By their sound too, But

25:41

if started evolving, right? So.

25:44

So. New Wave was like when it starts

25:46

out again, like crafty, like a little tough.

25:48

The goal it. I mean look at Ti

25:50

Vo and what they did with a weird

25:52

time. He said everything. Else like that it out.

25:55

And and it definitely agree with you

25:57

it's it's such a cool time for.

26:00

Good music when that. These bands

26:02

are like involving. You. Know a

26:04

it. Basically. Today the

26:06

way for other bands to you

26:09

know, Say. Hey man, it's okay

26:11

to explore in China. Put.

26:13

Some musicianship behind.

26:17

You know, or music. In. I mean,

26:19

yeah, was almost like when Harker comes then

26:21

there's this sort of our. Rulebook:

26:25

That comes in when bands could only do

26:27

a certain sound i'll a park or so

26:29

much disease anyway. But like they're almost. That's

26:31

when it becomes. A defined

26:34

thing. And. It's not

26:36

necessarily. Rd or bands

26:38

anymore it stands the do this

26:40

specific sound and that eventually. Implodes.

26:43

As I guess at a certain point like

26:46

if you're talking people. From. L

26:48

a that at a certain. Point.

26:50

Post Eighty Five, everything does. Connelly

26:52

tries up. Shows. That you

26:54

violin bands move like yourselves or

26:56

no facts like the answer kind

26:59

of. Fleeing. It seems because things

27:01

were getting too hairy and just. The

27:03

kind of killed to see Had. L.

27:06

A salesman. Yeah. Loan.

27:10

A Actually you know made task

27:12

forces in L a T like

27:15

police task forces in a way

27:17

to combat the the punk scene

27:19

and and the music scene. You

27:21

know that? I mean, that's insane.

27:24

In. Earnings and if I come on and.

27:28

Yeah, that's bullshit and that predates pilots

27:30

and created more violence than it helped.

27:34

On there's one Fum! So that bomber

27:36

went to with all of a lot

27:38

of our friends and ask me if

27:40

I want to go and I said

27:42

no and turned out the cops through

27:44

tear gas into the building and them

27:46

are just waiting outside with riot gear

27:48

and to speeding everyone came running out

27:50

of buildings. Yeah and like you said

27:53

that has an effect right like that

27:55

like a nickel panter was on. I

27:57

always quarter for this book bags she

27:59

said talking. The only hardware seen it

28:01

like a lot of times. Punk is

28:03

people with trauma inflicting trauma. On

28:06

other people who will in turn flick inflict

28:08

that trauma. Themselves. And

28:10

you can definitely that with a cop violence. and

28:12

then the way. L. A punk

28:14

went where he got more hard and more violently.

28:16

There is going to be a reaction to. These.

28:19

Forces that are kind of imposing themselves

28:21

on you. For her,

28:23

Yeah, be. Like. A said

28:26

it didn't help a hit about it

28:28

is became but the people. Even

28:31

more test offices in I would some of

28:33

the already gonna explode and all they want

28:35

to do is go to a puncture, get

28:37

into the path to stage dive stuff, release

28:40

some nervous energy or really does some tension

28:42

that's going on at home. They're probably hate

28:44

their parents had to the cops. It's like

28:46

I don't think this new book on what

28:48

was like a forum. You. Know

28:51

there's punk rock game. Suzanne

28:53

L, a Death Squad server

28:55

one yet suicidal and. It

28:59

was not a safe thing to do

29:01

to go to a puncture. In

29:04

L A Or and then it's like when

29:06

you watch America's Heart. For those that Rawlins

29:08

quote. That. He has about when they

29:11

went on night or the phone records

29:13

like a whole section reduction when the

29:15

teen idols went from D C out.

29:17

To. The bus the greyhound out to California

29:19

and got to the Circle Jerks play.

29:22

And. Just seeing the level of. I

29:25

guess organization in the approaches. Some

29:27

the punk kids and they serve

29:30

the early sir gang. Incursion

29:32

into punk rock and taking that and

29:34

bring that back to the east coast

29:36

and then just how they went around

29:39

inside so. I guess gifted it

29:41

to other scenes. You know, the Boston

29:43

Kids and then famously. The. New

29:45

York kids are all getting beaten up by those

29:47

kids, have a New York kids got harder and

29:49

you really do sort of this exporting. L

29:52

A style hardcore that happens all over

29:54

America and and. Ultimately, All over

29:56

the world. The

30:00

way. Or.

30:03

The Source Now both ways. Oh.

30:06

I get what. we could take

30:08

the cops right? Ever. Will. Help

30:10

him move that a lot on jet

30:12

if it because and on involved would

30:14

still all be been selling with the

30:16

screamers of the nerves. Will

30:20

judge you brought up earlier and I gotta I

30:22

gotta ask about this. Seen.

30:24

A great producers a dog moody

30:27

and mistakes records of that would

30:29

miss excesses of their distribution. Those.

30:32

Com scott all over the place and.

30:35

Sadly, I I don't think many the band

30:37

saw the returns on these farms getting all over

30:39

the place and I don't mean to laugh about

30:41

but it is something that has come on several

30:44

times on the show. Four

30:46

hours before I joined the band,

30:49

but I heard stories. was I

30:51

to paint? Chris kid elaborate on

30:53

that for sure. Oh.

30:58

So. When. We first

31:00

recorded and mistaken. there's this club

31:02

right around the corner from a

31:04

Cigarette or the Cafe Day Grand

31:06

and was like a Chinese. Restaurant.

31:09

There but up. There

31:12

so they would send. They would

31:14

just go and see these new

31:16

punk bands. And then they were

31:18

insists Howard's Item record or and

31:20

race course And so we were

31:22

like stars drive. We just something

31:24

that contracts right then and there

31:26

as her from what I've. Learned

31:29

I don't have a copy of

31:32

the contract. The contract clearly states

31:34

that bans will be paid in

31:36

Mystic merchandise. So

31:39

that's why I know the man's ever got

31:41

any money because they sign the contract said

31:43

they would be paid in Mystic merchandise, so

31:45

they probably only like a thousand Mystic to.

31:50

Well one of my most treasured

31:52

with records of my collection is

31:54

a copy of Keep Laughing That

31:56

was done. But. It was a

31:58

limited edition signed by Doug. The. I've

32:01

her that make different. Way

32:04

than. Why did he cited so

32:06

small? I don't know. It hinders whether a gold

32:08

star like a teacher would put on your tests

32:10

is he got a good march new does a

32:12

lot of this thing begs a lot of questions

32:15

from me and I had to pick it up

32:17

when it came out says you know what you

32:19

know that star me as a means of made

32:21

him a lot of buddy. Is

32:24

this is what I've read a lot

32:26

of Buddy bought about how thirty cars

32:28

of that he put a gold star.

32:33

Search. There's. A

32:35

legend to the that board was used

32:37

to record. Our now when a

32:39

fuck it up like one of the Led Zeppelin records I

32:41

think. I believe there are

32:44

some story like that. I. Remember

32:46

some scan story like that? Who

32:49

knows, I don't remember. I don't

32:51

remember any Led Zeppelin album having

32:53

that much for reading from. For

32:56

the reverse the river was real

32:58

reverb. They had a on a

33:00

speaker in the basement. And

33:03

this is a while and road giant

33:05

building. There was a L A building

33:07

had speaker on one side and a

33:09

microphone on the other. Now as the

33:11

river. To. Is real reaver.

33:14

They actually sends a signal of

33:16

the snare drum down to the

33:18

speaker. In. A. Place.

33:21

Is bigger than they capture through the

33:23

might and go back into the board.

33:26

And now is how they got their. Signature.

33:29

Mystic River. Wow.

33:32

I didn't know this. Yeah right.

33:34

That not like I thought. it

33:36

was like they were just plug

33:39

a signal into. you know, like

33:41

one of those old tender reverb

33:43

takes a speedy recovery guy. tennis

33:45

ladies and kids together. Yeah, that's

33:47

basically what it is that it's

33:49

funny because it's just like a

33:51

to powered. Sweetie.

33:55

That's what it is. It looks like it out,

33:57

but you look inside of it. As you said,

34:00

Read. It

34:02

had no difficulty of are so that that. This

34:05

was a real name like they did

34:08

back in the day on. Dog

34:11

talks about when he first started.

34:15

Working. And recording studios. He has

34:17

all kinds of crazy stories of

34:19

about the methods they use to

34:22

do softly and we need he's

34:24

pretty old do at he was

34:26

in the very first. Ah,

34:30

Recording Studios in England that.

34:33

Before. Multi track and at all

34:35

kinds of crazy ways to do

34:37

stuff back then and they have

34:39

listened to a few of his

34:41

interviews and like the guy i

34:43

mean I gotta get Gray he

34:46

signed our Kale. When. Nobody

34:48

else would assigned us were pretty

34:50

horrible when we were. In

34:52

fifteen years old who who isn't the

34:54

on there's not that many great the

34:56

has been there is at ease with

34:59

on. Without.

35:01

Mister Gregory, who knows, we may never

35:04

have gone on to her or done

35:06

when we did You. Answer:

35:09

It is a label that. Had.

35:12

Unbelievable reach with these records. A kind of

35:15

showed up all over the place and I

35:17

guess. Once you're not the benefit

35:19

of the bands with these things were kind of kept

35:21

in print, so by the time that I was getting

35:23

into punk years later, you could still. Maybe.

35:25

Not find originals but by med Super

35:28

Seven series that they did of the

35:30

reissues the That seven it's later on

35:32

and on Xerox Paper Korea and as

35:34

a fun it's that. Well I've. Just.

35:37

Recently came the sort of realization that I was.

35:39

Growing. Up much more burst in

35:41

California punk because of Frontier. And.

35:44

Mistake keeping these records in print that

35:46

I was with the stuff from Toronto

35:49

and Canada like The Away records. Work.

35:52

In print back then. You can find

35:54

those things as subhuman stuff back then,

35:56

but you could always find. Ill

35:59

repute stuff. Her. It

36:01

aggression or kale like those misick

36:03

records. He.

36:05

Did kind of served to get the band's name out

36:07

there once you not to pay them but. Named.

36:10

Gotta have faith and publicity unless

36:12

I'm sure. Anytime he wanted because

36:14

they're gone down and got a

36:17

few Mr. Teasers the I guess

36:19

it's associated so much of that

36:21

era hardcore but that first Mentors

36:23

records on their that A Hotspot

36:25

record or that Primitive Men Hate

36:27

Taxi band that the drummer from

36:29

The Minimum had. Like there is.

36:32

A taxes views in a punk right.

36:35

Kind. of out of the gate it seems. Yeah,

36:39

I mean does Aegis. He was

36:41

a sin to young people creating

36:44

music and. I mean

36:46

he's he's a good harvest em

36:48

in his car was in the

36:50

right place. Assists Noom

36:52

with the time we sweet there

36:54

are banned over the years in

36:57

a lot of half music he

36:59

of us as mistake records don't

37:01

by mistake little stuff because. They

37:05

never did send us any kind of

37:07

statements are. H

37:10

S says I saw to this day

37:12

given credit for for doing what they

37:14

did for. As any like you said,

37:16

I mean I've had no idea that

37:19

they had better reach than any other.

37:22

Tiny independent label at the time

37:24

that. That's. Cool to hear that.

37:27

I guess it's also the sad reality of. Punk

37:30

labels, Not all

37:32

of them but a lot of i'm

37:34

back then were posh boy your stories

37:36

about seedy character as their stories about

37:38

that label as well like it feels

37:40

like he almost had to sign of

37:42

toasty and deal to get your music

37:44

out there were you might be dealing

37:46

with the label that's. Very.

37:49

Sketchy and you may not get paid from

37:51

it, but. Who else is going

37:53

to put your record was he had money to yourself?

37:56

Now. It's

37:59

not. The I gotta say that

38:01

you know before I joined our kill.

38:04

I listen to all domestic stuff. Every

38:08

day Ill repute to the

38:10

samplers: Slag Oxnard. Sample.

38:12

Seeing any of those writers were all

38:15

up in Northern California. You

38:17

know, Rag on. I mean you walk into

38:19

any de. Puniet Independent music

38:21

Richard Shopper So or whatever

38:24

they have like a mystic

38:26

section. Yes,

38:29

get an inlet sound. As.

38:31

Much as people like derided by

38:33

like that has become a sounded

38:35

people trying get now for their

38:37

bands like the Mystic Sounded is

38:39

incisive. The Motown sound of you

38:41

need a basement with the speaker.

38:44

Either board from the Led Zeppelin record Heat

38:46

of Refer up in the base of as

38:49

a lot of stuff that went into it,

38:51

but that has become like a defining part

38:53

of this culture. And

38:56

it's. Like you mentioned Joe.

38:58

Like Northern California, it feels like. Really?

39:01

starts popping off. We just hardcore punk

39:03

right from the Gecko, but. That.

39:06

In mid late eighties

39:08

seem like. Looking at

39:10

that Alchemy Records roster like Taco

39:12

when the great rosters while time

39:14

with the Melvin, Neurosis, Poison Idea,

39:17

sacrilege, Clown Alley, yourselves, paranoia like

39:19

it was, I was a hot

39:21

time for for punk in that

39:23

area. Yeah.

39:25

At well as a Dick and Alchemy.

39:28

Like all those bands like what is

39:30

it that I portland in the that

39:32

in Oregon avoid. It's Northern California too,

39:34

but it's like. It's. A

39:36

good point that it had relocated of

39:38

the melvin said move down by that

39:40

point and we're living out here and

39:42

yeah, and but you're right, like poor

39:44

I put an idea. I guess

39:47

was a geographically situated there but they were

39:49

kind of I think. Going

39:51

down there at that point a little bit

39:54

in.but yeah you're it is more like a.

39:56

I guess. pan. West. Coast thing

39:59

like a specific. Northwest where he

40:01

had Northern Alberta be part of

40:03

it. Yeah, I guess you can.

40:05

You can include Northern California with

40:07

taxes. Organs have been is. Jennifer?

40:11

Like Geographically like you said. Both.

40:14

But yeah I mean of like

40:16

in northern California by a was

40:18

I was the shit I was

40:20

going on in in Berkeley. oh

40:22

bland San Francisco it was a

40:24

major scenery and like metal was

40:26

starting to happen at that point

40:28

to and. An Ira I

40:30

remember like fans like Metallic her with

40:32

would play like the Rock on Broadway

40:35

like The Stone and. And.

40:37

And right across the street there was

40:39

movie he gardens and then you'd you'd

40:42

go there and. See. Crucifix?

40:44

You know, like. Thought.

40:46

That was it it. It was all

40:48

ages to because it was typically a

40:50

Filipino restaurant here. So that's where I

40:52

went to. My first I was at

40:55

the do have gardens. it was Sales

40:57

of Terror of of the Hague Arms.

41:00

And I believe I was. Fourteen

41:04

at that time. And

41:07

I got about hit over the head with.

41:10

The players face. It:

41:13

there's a benefit concert boasted. That

41:16

I joked to this day. I think that's the reason

41:18

why I played his his of. State

41:21

Of the media. He got

41:23

forgot his name to be added early

41:25

stage exactly. Were

41:28

once you start playing. Well.

41:31

My brother was a guitar player

41:33

and he bought his first electric

41:36

guitar I think when I was

41:38

around. Eight. Years old.

41:41

So. He was he a paper

41:43

out new use probably around eleven

41:45

or twelve at that point. And

41:48

so he bought in a letter to tar

41:50

added app and then he started learning how

41:52

to play and I always wanted to be

41:54

like my brother. You. Know. I

41:57

looked up to him and I was wanted to do with

41:59

you. To do a piece keyboard and I

42:01

wanted to escape or if he is the amount

42:03

of honor to be a max I see play

42:05

guitar largely. This are. So.

42:08

So basically. When.

42:10

He was at home. I would pick up his

42:12

guitar and and you know tinker around with their

42:14

and learn how to play and stuff like that.

42:17

And I was a very good at all. Ah,

42:20

and then he got mad and

42:22

an Amish eighth birthday. He

42:24

to bits my parents, the body

42:27

guitar. Acoustic guitar and

42:29

I think the gonna download some rewards.

42:34

Arrested? Remember Monkey Wars?

42:36

Yeah. Success! Had

42:39

the is is yes he'll serve

42:41

on so I started taking a

42:43

references you're in around with the

42:45

guitar like at like eight so

42:47

that's what I first started plan

42:49

and and I. And. I

42:51

say. later on that year

42:53

my brother started giving me

42:55

life lessons and then we

42:57

played via elementary school a

42:59

sunny sunny Bray school talent

43:01

show. We wrote an original

43:03

saw Things it's the Salad

43:05

So so I first served

43:07

eight years old. The

43:10

specifics but as I guess is abusing

43:12

a good man and then I start

43:14

to get into skateboarding. On.

43:16

But is still. I love jamming

43:18

around and and and and still

43:20

playing guitar. Ah, And

43:22

it wasn't until my freshman year of

43:24

high school or. One. Of.

43:27

Mean. Of a bunch of other people who

43:29

listen to Park and mantle. And

43:31

Butcher Maskaev Francis to schedule

43:33

Marquee. On. At he was like

43:35

a fool. like pretty the battle had dude. Ah,

43:38

And he he, I'm. Teetering.

43:41

Around with the guitar like at like

43:44

eight so that's what I first started

43:46

plan and and I. And.

43:48

i safe later on that

43:50

year my brother started giving

43:52

me life lessons or then

43:54

we played via elementary school

43:56

a some sonny boy school

43:58

talent show rebranded original song.

44:01

So that was my

44:03

first show at eight

44:05

years old. But

44:08

that's how I started getting into music and

44:10

then and then I started getting into skateboarding.

44:13

But it's still like, you know, jamming

44:15

around and, and, and I'm still playing

44:18

guitar. And it wasn't

44:20

until my freshman year in high school,

44:23

when me and a bunch

44:25

of other people who listen to punk and metal,

44:27

and a bunch of my skate friends, this

44:30

guy, Joe Markey, he

44:32

was like the fool, like crazy metalhead dude.

44:36

And he he

44:39

had he had a garage at his

44:42

mom's house where he had all this

44:44

equipment set up. And he asked everybody,

44:46

you know, does anybody know how to play an

44:48

instrument? Do you guys want to come over and

44:51

jam because we want to start a band like

44:53

a punk band. And so we went over there.

44:56

And everybody wanted to play

44:58

guitar. It's full. You

45:02

know, like I wanted to play guitar too. And

45:04

no one wanted to touch the bass. So I

45:06

was like, okay, I'll give it a

45:08

shot. And then I started playing bass. And I

45:10

was like, Oh, my God, I fucking love this

45:13

thing. Great, you know, so

45:15

I played the bass like a guitar. That was the

45:17

first time that I picked up a bass. And then

45:19

ever since then, that's been my main instrument. So

45:22

prior to getting into RKL,

45:25

like, had you played in any bands

45:27

that had like done any sort of not touring,

45:29

I guess, but even like serious digging beyond this

45:31

first band? No serious gigging

45:33

at all. RKL

45:35

was the first band that I that I

45:38

had ever been in that that I played

45:40

like real gigs. My

45:43

gigging up until that point

45:45

was basically playing like, you

45:48

know, finals weeks at at high

45:50

schools. You know, and

45:53

wild style never played any house parties

45:56

or anything. We played one

45:58

house party, you know, old

46:00

house party. So there were like

46:02

these high school performances and then,

46:04

and then I think a couple

46:06

of house parties. Yeah. And

46:09

that was it. That was all. So

46:12

was it an ad in Max rock and roll? Like,

46:14

how did you wind up? Auditioning

46:17

or how does this wind up happening?

46:19

I remember reading somewhere it was

46:21

an ad in Max rock and roll that you responded

46:23

to or that you could was it a flyer? It

46:25

was a flyer. It was a

46:27

flyer that that my my friends

46:30

saw on 8th Street. And,

46:34

and my my friend Dave Carter

46:36

that I was playing in

46:38

a band with at that time,

46:40

the band Wildstyle as Chris

46:43

mentioned, we were like

46:45

basically kind of like a RKL

46:47

rip off band because we loved RKL

46:49

so much. Like I was a huge

46:52

fan of RKL before I joined

46:54

them. And so, so

46:57

was everybody else at that time, you know,

46:59

like we were we

47:01

thought RKL was the greatest thing in the

47:03

whole world. And pretty much, you know, it

47:06

was to me at least, you

47:08

know, it's like right when keep laughing

47:11

or after keep laughing came out. And

47:13

so Dave had

47:16

seen that flyer and then

47:18

told me that RKL was looking for a bass

47:20

player, but I

47:22

didn't want to audition for

47:24

the band. And one

47:27

day he set up

47:29

an audition for the band without

47:31

me knowing and

47:33

hit me up one day and said,

47:36

hey, man, we're gonna go, you know,

47:38

do something. And I'm like, okay, cool.

47:41

And then on the way to San

47:43

Francisco, well, actually, the audition was a

47:46

Marin with Bonner and

47:48

Barry appetite. He had

47:50

said, yeah, you're gonna go audition

47:52

for RKL. And I was like, oh,

47:56

fuck, man. Really? Like,

47:58

why did you put me on the spot? like that, blah, blah,

48:00

blah, you know, but we

48:02

were so into RKL, like, even

48:05

if I didn't get the gig or whatever, like,

48:07

it would have been rad just to meet

48:10

like our heroes and just, you

48:12

know, shoot the shit. But

48:15

apparently I got the gig. So it

48:17

wasn't her favorite for that either. Chris,

48:21

what'd you think when it was brought

48:24

up, there was going to be a 17 year old potentially now

48:26

in the band? I

48:29

didn't have a second thought about that. I

48:31

was, I couldn't believe that he could play

48:33

bombers, baselines, you know, I

48:35

was totally impressed. Like, I think

48:37

I was out of town at that at

48:39

that time when Joe

48:41

came up and auditioned because

48:43

they also auditioned Mikey offender

48:45

from the offenders and he

48:47

definitely had jobs, he could

48:49

have probably done it. But

48:52

Joe was more impressive

48:55

and definitely fit in better

48:57

with our whole thing

49:00

because bombers, bombers

49:03

background was having an older

49:05

sister from in the

49:08

70s. Like he is, you know,

49:10

she was like a party

49:12

chick, I think, and she used to listen

49:15

to kiss and bomber was super into kiss

49:17

and like, I don't know,

49:19

like pretty hard, whatever the hardest

49:21

rock was back then, you know,

49:23

like, um, and

49:26

so the offenders, I don't know,

49:28

I think they, for

49:30

some reason, Joe just

49:32

fit in better. He was with the skateboarding

49:35

and stuff and he

49:38

learned farmers crazy bass

49:40

riffs quicker, I think. And I think

49:44

bomber just saw the opportunity to

49:46

mold this young boy into what

49:49

he wanted. And

49:51

I was definitely impressionable for sure. But,

49:53

but yeah, I mean,

49:55

I didn't even know that I was going to

49:57

be able to play those parts.

50:00

either. Because when

50:02

we went for the audition, we had

50:04

a wild style, like, reversal

50:07

tape, and I wrote most of those

50:09

tunes. Me and

50:11

Dave wrote them, and it did

50:13

sound like RKL. So like when, when

50:16

we showed the bomber and Barry the

50:19

songs, he's like, it's like,

50:21

Oh, okay, so you guys, you

50:23

know, like, this is the

50:25

right influence, you know, like, I think, I

50:28

think you could do this, like, you can definitely

50:30

play the older stuff, for sure. And then

50:32

he gave us a mixed

50:36

of, I guess it was like,

50:38

maybe a rough mix of rock and

50:40

roll nightmare. And, and told me

50:44

listen to it and asked me

50:47

if you can learn these songs that

50:49

give me a call. And

50:52

then Dave and I on the way home

50:54

started listening to rock and roll nightmare before

50:56

it came out. And, and we were just

50:58

ecstatic. Like, we're getting to listen

51:00

to a brand new RKL album that's not even

51:03

out. But dude, it was insane.

51:05

I was like, Oh, my

51:07

God, what the fuck is going on?

51:09

You know, because it was just like

51:11

progressive rock. But like, you

51:13

know, on liquefied, like Blender

51:15

style, so fast and gnarly.

51:17

We couldn't believe it.

51:20

And well, because I was into

51:22

rock and roll, and I think

51:24

that's why I was a good

51:27

fit is because my roots were in rock.

51:29

And I think everybody else's in the band's

51:32

roots and influences were also in

51:34

rock and definitely prog rock and stuff like

51:36

that. Um, like

51:38

I was like, okay, well, I'm gonna try

51:40

to learn this. But there

51:43

was no way that I could learn the songs

51:45

by ear. So when I called

51:47

bomber back, I said,

51:49

Okay, I think I can play this

51:51

stuff. But I can't

51:54

pick it up on the record. I need you to show

51:56

me how to play. And

51:58

because I've Been playing for so long,

52:00

I mean. Ah,

52:05

Like was well refined you know. but

52:07

my my brother was a blizzard you

52:09

know like of metal. The lead guitar

52:11

player he says he would show me

52:13

things and I would just pick up

52:15

on things and and I was played

52:17

my base like it is hard so

52:19

a thief. That's how I learned everything

52:21

so quickly. I guess I was

52:24

like a constant basal when I was ordered to

52:26

in my pills. Fifth,

52:29

it's picked up on a really quick

52:31

in and the and yeah, It

52:34

was. It was like a radical. I mean

52:36

I couldn't believe our to play those sites.

52:38

I was like okay I'll give it a

52:41

shot, marathon and learn and I'm like wow

52:43

I can play I couldn't believe it. Absolutely.

52:46

of unlike always interested is because normally the

52:49

bass player to but. Bands.

52:51

Based, where's that? Join a ban? It's

52:54

already going. But as you know, a

52:56

few years in or so months, many

52:58

years in. And how you

53:00

find. Where. You sit in that ban

53:02

and non it's necessary to spacers that like Lars

53:04

is on the show talk but when he was

53:07

a kid knows anything the Uk subs and how

53:09

is fucked it all up. And. Just

53:11

had to go home. This Charlie Harper

53:13

said I'm home Ah yeah we're talking

53:15

to for Target a like. Robert

53:18

about would you join metallic up

53:20

and. Just. How like. It

53:23

was one thing to be able to play the part. That's

53:25

another thing to be. In. That situation

53:27

to be able to kind of like below the

53:29

personalities and the kind of like. Be.

53:32

Part of chemistry that's already been established over

53:34

these years, and I guess. Maybe.

53:36

That's why it works so well. seventeen years.

53:38

you're just so excited to be there. And

53:41

can play all this shit so. There's.

53:44

No ego to get in the way of you

53:46

sitting in or something. I. Don't want you to

53:48

him after. The Abbey. I was just

53:50

happy to be there, right? And I was

53:52

just like mesmerized by bombers ability and everybody's

53:54

ability in the ban. I mean once we

53:56

got together as in Sam together I was

53:59

like oh my God. This is like the

54:01

greatest thing in the world. This is. The

54:04

most talented musicians I've ever played

54:06

with up until that point. Ah,

54:09

I'm. An.

54:12

In, I think the culture too because

54:15

I just made a scapegoat for so

54:17

long. And who's into skateboarding? you know,

54:19

like I also served. On.

54:23

With. My friends to and and

54:25

them coming from Santa Barbara having

54:27

that same culture it's just like

54:30

we call out the with kind

54:32

of all just yell together like

54:34

immediately. Yeah. Yeah

54:37

was. It's scary at all. See.

54:41

Was assessed. As

54:43

it aired and I'm forty something years

54:46

old now I read. It. It

54:48

was scary because like I mean I

54:50

don't know these people right? And on

54:52

seventeen years old and I've here I

54:54

am going light on a train. You

54:57

know, ah, that on a skateboard

54:59

In a boss like going into.

55:02

The. Lower with know the upper Haight my

55:04

the Panhandle a species on go do

55:06

some house or be an hour to

55:08

get like four weeks till they're so.

55:11

That was. it was a little scary and I

55:14

didn't even tell my parents that I was doing

55:16

and I just went. And then it's like every

55:18

time I taught school and go to San Francisco

55:20

to. See. Skateboard and that was

55:22

many time to be. We go to Hunters

55:24

Point to the stairs and and skate the

55:27

Hunters Point rap. You. Know I never

55:29

told my parents I did that either, but that

55:31

was fucking scary to. You know

55:33

the sad forgiveness for for such as. You

55:36

know, I'm but. ah, it was just

55:38

like one of those time zones. Just

55:40

okay. well only give it a shot

55:42

and. You. Know if a farm

55:45

in trouble I got a skateboard to

55:47

hit somebody with an iguana to block

55:49

is get away as quickly with possibly

55:51

get. Hurt. And there's like

55:53

a fearlessness the you have. When.

55:55

You're younger that. I

55:59

guess leads you to. The Adventures bullet Something that

56:01

when you're an adult or a little bit

56:03

older, you'd be like there's no fucking way

56:05

of doing that. Yeah,

56:07

yeah, but his. Well you get street

56:10

smarts right when you get older, so

56:12

you you know what kind of situations

56:14

to keep yourself out of. Because.

56:17

He fiverr. Before that, you know, sketchier

56:19

threat and who. Were

56:21

going to. All get the other

56:23

would you're younger you to satellite kind of

56:26

up further the Thatcher's get. You

56:28

know they've been a lot more because it says. You're.

56:30

Resilience. You know you can. You can

56:32

either the adding seventeen. it seems really

56:35

young, but it's not. That

56:37

young now. I'm.

56:39

Will get my fourteen year old and I'm

56:41

like in three more years where I let

56:43

him go off with one of the most

56:46

legendary We Wilde bands of all time. Like

56:48

I guess I know when a way to

56:50

your parents didn't necessarily know about. The.

56:53

Reputation of of and I guess old let reputation develops

56:55

while you're in the bed too. Well.

56:59

Joey. Hard think we had much

57:01

of a reputation as yeah and

57:03

and that's true and also might

57:05

my parents said Matt the whole

57:07

bad. You know why bomber would

57:09

come over and and you know.

57:12

He. He would. We would hang out and

57:14

we would. We will play music and. With.

57:17

The those are times you spend the night

57:19

and. He met everybody in the bear

57:21

and or my parents bet everybody in the

57:23

band in and. And everybody

57:25

was cool. You know where everybody was

57:27

minutes so they they were like well

57:29

you know these are kids. In

57:33

a pretty solid and they're nice people. you know they

57:35

have a good. And.

57:37

It's true everybody in the band it.

57:40

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shopify.com/try. guess there's also this quality to punk

59:39

rock where there is a sort of this Peter

59:41

Pan Neverland feel

59:44

to it and I mean this in the best ways because it can

59:46

also go badly as well

59:48

with this thing but where you know I got

59:50

in a punk rock I had friends that I traded records with

59:52

that were in their 50s

59:54

when I was like 14 we just like they had

59:56

records that I wanted I had a record they wanted

59:58

we trade records there's nothing creepy or

1:00:01

weird about it was completely normal for us to

1:00:03

talk for hours about music and it

1:00:06

now is a scared parent like if my kids came home

1:00:08

it was like I'm hanging with a bunch of 20 year

1:00:10

old kids or 30 year old kids I'd be like what

1:00:13

no no

1:00:15

way this happened in under my roof right

1:00:19

is it that a trip that you can see that

1:00:21

now as a parent yeah

1:00:23

probably you're more protective because

1:00:26

you've been down a CD road

1:00:28

baby I'm not judging but I think it's

1:00:30

doing this podcast hearing

1:00:32

like your story or Stephen

1:00:34

McDonald's story like all these kids

1:00:36

that had these wild adventures super

1:00:39

young that it's made me more of a lock

1:00:42

the kids up kind of parent I'm like oh my god

1:00:44

the terrors that await you up

1:00:46

there well in

1:00:48

the 70s I mean we always to climb

1:00:51

in the back of the pickup truck with

1:00:53

the dogs and go driving my dad be

1:00:55

drinking beers in the front different times

1:01:00

but I think Joe touched on it earlier

1:01:02

Chris with like you said you

1:01:04

guys didn't have much of a reputation at that

1:01:06

point but RKL seems to be a band that

1:01:09

immediately kids

1:01:11

wanted to make bands that sounded like RKL like it's

1:01:13

one of those bands and it happens a lot definitely

1:01:16

afterwards in punk rock where these certain records

1:01:18

come out and just

1:01:20

kind of change the ecosystem around them

1:01:23

where kids want to

1:01:25

do that sound or takes the sound in

1:01:27

a slightly different direction and you know fat

1:01:29

Mike has been screaming that from the

1:01:31

rooftops for years and years you know

1:01:33

but wildstyle to like like

1:01:35

Joe's saying like there is that wave

1:01:38

of bands that kind of follow you guys

1:01:40

that almost immediately are are trying to to

1:01:43

live up this legend I

1:01:46

mean when I don't know

1:01:48

when I look back at the first two

1:01:50

US tours that we did one was with

1:01:53

Dr. No and

1:01:55

then we did another one with

1:01:57

some band called Beyond Pajamas to

1:02:01

complete disastrous tours. They

1:02:05

both, I don't think we finished either one

1:02:08

of those tours. And most of the gigs

1:02:10

that we showed up at, we didn't know

1:02:12

that you're supposed to advance the show before

1:02:14

you start driving there. I mean, we just

1:02:16

show up at this address and somehow

1:02:19

we, I don't even remember how

1:02:21

we booked those tours, but

1:02:23

they're completely like Johnny's

1:02:27

living room and just, it was the worst.

1:02:30

And every band we played with was like

1:02:33

the worst two chord, like

1:02:35

hardcore barking dog vocal

1:02:37

bands. And they were all, most

1:02:40

of those bands were horrible. And

1:02:43

then for some reason

1:02:46

we ended up playing like a show

1:02:48

with subhumans. And once

1:02:51

in a while, you know, we'd get this

1:02:53

gem of a band to play with. We

1:02:56

ran into Scream and we played a CBGB,

1:03:01

Sunday matinee with Scream, but then like the

1:03:03

other shows that across the Midwest and stuff,

1:03:05

we were all with just the

1:03:08

worst thrash

1:03:11

bands you could ever imagine. In the

1:03:14

worst situations with the worst PA and

1:03:16

the worst everything you could even think

1:03:18

of and no money. And

1:03:22

so like at the time it was just like, wow,

1:03:24

this is really not working

1:03:26

out. And then somehow

1:03:28

we got this after Rock and Roll Nightmare came

1:03:31

out and we got Joe and we started playing

1:03:33

all around San Francisco a lot. We

1:03:37

didn't, we rarely left the Bay

1:03:39

area for a while. And then

1:03:42

we got this offer to go tour Europe and we

1:03:44

did that two years in a row. And

1:03:47

when we came back to California after

1:03:49

that second European tour, we went and

1:03:51

played in Reseda, which

1:03:54

is like Northern LA. And

1:03:56

the place sold out in like half an hour

1:03:58

and it was... Like

1:04:01

all of a sudden there's all this people

1:04:03

knew who we were and it was really Crazy

1:04:07

because we were like Struggling

1:04:09

so hard before that I think it's

1:04:11

on that first doctor. No tour. There's

1:04:14

a there's actually a website medal forum

1:04:17

That has every show you guys ever

1:04:19

played and flyers for most of them

1:04:22

There's a foreign over that today

1:04:24

and I think it's on that first doctor tour

1:04:27

you guys play in Seattle and

1:04:29

malfunctions on the bill and

1:04:32

I think it's so awesome that these two

1:04:34

bands are playing together obviously you guys the

1:04:36

impact you have on California punk and

1:04:38

Southern California punk in particular and stuff in

1:04:41

the 90s and then The

1:04:43

impact malfunction kind of has on all those

1:04:45

Seattle bands in their wake, too And that's

1:04:48

a great thing about punk is that

1:04:50

you can have these bands that would

1:04:52

have massive impacts worldwide impacts But

1:04:55

they're playing together on shows that sometimes

1:04:57

were a little undersold Yeah,

1:05:01

I know for a fact there are some

1:05:03

flyers on that website that we never played Not

1:05:08

redacted there's a bunch of her redacted on that side

1:05:10

I noticed Yeah Because

1:05:12

people used to just make flyers and just put us

1:05:14

on the flyer and hope that we showed up and

1:05:16

we were just like What we're playing? Oh You

1:05:22

Do you guys do tour with the Melvins do

1:05:24

I said that's a beyond possession tour the Melvins

1:05:26

were the other band on that bill So

1:05:30

we ran into them and they're to her.

1:05:32

Oh, that's a dream bill The Melvins are

1:05:34

really good back then and we were definitely

1:05:36

impressed with them and dr. No it was

1:05:38

cool That was the Kyle touch her Era

1:05:42

of dr. No, but they

1:05:45

you know, Kyle was a huge black

1:05:47

flag fan and he

1:05:49

they even played I Think

1:05:52

it was a black coffee or one of those

1:05:55

my war or something like They

1:05:58

were they were pretty cool and we

1:06:01

would switch off like one night RKL

1:06:03

would play last and the other night

1:06:05

Dr. Nell would play and then the Melvins were

1:06:07

opening. It was actually the

1:06:10

shows that did happen were pretty fun

1:06:12

whether or not there's any people there.

1:06:15

Like we talked about earlier not

1:06:17

having a lot of money is definitely

1:06:20

something that affected bands and Buzz has

1:06:22

said that the RKL side

1:06:25

of that tour was funded

1:06:27

by a skateboard store heist.

1:06:30

Is that true? Yeah

1:06:33

kind of. I think the statute of

1:06:35

limitations way expired but yeah

1:06:38

it was sad actually I mean this guy

1:06:40

had this cool little

1:06:42

skateboard company called Brand X

1:06:45

skateboards and in Santa

1:06:47

Barbara and one of Jason's

1:06:49

friends said oh you know I know how

1:06:51

to get in that place and and

1:06:54

stole probably like a

1:06:56

few boxes of skate decks and

1:06:59

they had like skulls skulls on them and they

1:07:01

said Brand X and we

1:07:04

sold them I don't think

1:07:06

the whole tour was funded by that

1:07:08

but there's definitely some money that was

1:07:10

purchased with sale of those skateboards and

1:07:13

I'm sure we weren't selling them for

1:07:15

much twenty bucks a piece or something

1:07:17

like that. You couldn't have

1:07:19

had more than 20 or

1:07:21

30 boards because they're heavy

1:07:26

but I felt bad because that guy

1:07:28

who ran that company

1:07:31

was super cold to me when I was just

1:07:33

a little kid when we went on

1:07:37

that tour I was a little kid 15

1:07:39

I think. What was your relationship

1:07:42

like with Alchemy because I think I've even read

1:07:44

you talk about how there was like a lack

1:07:47

of promotion from them and it kind

1:07:50

of undercut the band a little bit. So

1:07:57

there was Mark. I

1:08:00

can't remember how to say his name

1:08:02

is Mark and then what

1:08:05

was the other guy's name? Victor Hayden. Victor,

1:08:08

yeah. So I

1:08:12

do not know how Bomber met them, but

1:08:15

Bomber worked out that whole deal. And I

1:08:18

don't think anybody else would have put out a

1:08:20

full comic book

1:08:22

lyric sheet at that time. I mean, that must

1:08:25

have cost a fortune. So I

1:08:27

mean, they were cool. I

1:08:29

mean, I

1:08:31

think it was much easier to buy the

1:08:33

record in England than it was in the

1:08:36

States because that's where he was based out

1:08:38

of. I

1:08:40

don't remember having a lot of complaints

1:08:42

about them. They probably didn't

1:08:45

advertise that much. But the

1:08:48

fact that they put out that, they

1:08:51

put out the comic book and they

1:08:53

pretty much did anything we asked as far

1:08:56

as production of

1:08:58

that album. And I

1:09:00

mean, we recorded that record for dirt

1:09:03

money. I mean, we went to a

1:09:05

little 16-track studio. There

1:09:08

was a friend of my mom's living

1:09:12

room, and we

1:09:14

did it in like six days, I think. So

1:09:17

Bomber played drums and bass on that record.

1:09:22

It's such an interesting label too

1:09:24

because Victor Hayden's like Captain Beefheart's

1:09:26

cousin, right? And he

1:09:28

did like art for Zappa. And

1:09:33

has like deep, deep, that side

1:09:35

of prog, I guess prog

1:09:37

for lack of a better term, but that whole like

1:09:40

Zappa Beefheart verse kind of connection too. But

1:09:42

he apparently also is one of the people

1:09:44

that started the Gilman or like helps

1:09:47

the Gilman form. I

1:09:50

didn't know that history. And

1:09:53

put out some of the greatest records of all time,

1:09:56

like those four record run of your record,

1:09:58

Neurosis, Poison Idea, and the that Melbourne's LP.

1:10:01

It's like, I

1:10:03

can't think of too many other labels that put out that many

1:10:05

significant records and that's for a period of time. Yeah.

1:10:09

Did you guys play the Gilman? Like 88 and

1:10:11

87 I think you play, right? Yeah,

1:10:15

there's some videos on YouTube of us playing

1:10:17

there. Tuning up for 20

1:10:19

minutes and then playing like 30 minutes

1:10:21

after that. There's a

1:10:23

classic part where while

1:10:26

we're tuning, our friend gets

1:10:28

on the mic and says, anybody

1:10:30

have sticks for the drummer?

1:10:33

Sticks? Anybody? Someone's like,

1:10:35

ask the other band.

1:10:41

What'd you kind of make of that stuff as it's happening, Joe?

1:10:43

Because I guess you're really close in age to a lot of

1:10:45

the kids that will wind up doing those early Gilman bands. I

1:10:49

thought it kind of sucked that we couldn't drink in

1:10:51

the club. Personally,

1:10:55

but that was when

1:10:58

RKL played Gilman Street.

1:11:01

I'd been there before, so I definitely knew

1:11:03

the deal. I knew that you

1:11:06

could drink across the street in the parking lot

1:11:08

and stuff like that. But yeah,

1:11:12

exactly. We'll not have a

1:11:14

brewery across the street. But

1:11:20

I thought Gilman was awesome because

1:11:24

of what they stood for and all the bands

1:11:26

and camaraderie they had

1:11:28

there. But

1:11:32

I wasn't really involved in that

1:11:34

whole scene. Berkeley was like

1:11:37

another world. I would go out there

1:11:40

and see metal bands and stuff like that. And

1:11:42

I'd go to Gilman Street to

1:11:45

see shows there too, or bands

1:11:47

that I really love. But mostly

1:11:49

I was involved in

1:11:51

San Francisco because it was so close to San

1:11:53

Mateo that I could get on a bus and

1:11:56

go see shows there whenever I wanted to. Berkeley

1:11:58

was like, wait a few questions. away

1:12:00

from me. I was about to

1:12:02

get on a BART and then

1:12:04

go you know across the bay and then

1:12:06

catch a bus out there to Berkeley

1:12:09

too. And

1:12:12

it also feels so stupid nowadays right because

1:12:14

it's like really close. Well I think they

1:12:16

extended the BART eventually to go out there

1:12:18

too so I don't think I have to

1:12:20

take the bus maybe as much anymore. I

1:12:22

don't know it's been a long time since I've taken

1:12:25

transit out to the Gilman

1:12:27

but it's amazing how

1:12:29

different those scenes were because they were

1:12:31

geographically so close together but Oakland, San

1:12:33

Francisco and Berkeley

1:12:36

had really distinct kind

1:12:38

of little scenes it seems. Yeah.

1:12:43

Do you remember that venue called the New Method?

1:12:45

It might

1:12:47

have been like Emeryville or somewhere like

1:12:50

right not that far from from

1:12:54

Baybridge I guess but there was some weird

1:12:56

little club called the

1:12:58

New Method. I remember seeing a few

1:13:00

bands there but

1:13:02

we never played there. I just

1:13:05

remember. I never remember I don't

1:13:07

think I'd been to a show there.

1:13:09

I always went went out to Gilman

1:13:14

or or Ruthie's or Ruthie's in

1:13:17

Ruthie's. Those were the two spots

1:13:19

in Berkeley for me. Yeah

1:13:24

New Method I think Christown Parade

1:13:26

and and neurosis would play

1:13:28

there. I think it's come up a few times

1:13:30

on the show. And there was I guess

1:13:32

the farm as well or is that already gone by this point?

1:13:35

No the farm was there. Yeah it

1:13:40

was still around.

1:13:43

I've seen so many bands at

1:13:45

the farm because the one

1:13:48

of the buses that that

1:13:51

came from San Mateo which would

1:13:53

drop you off right there at

1:13:55

that park. So

1:13:58

you could you could take the I

1:14:01

believe it was the 5M and one

1:14:04

of the buses would just drop you

1:14:06

off right there. So it was radical.

1:14:09

I see so many bands there and

1:14:12

that was the place. Actually

1:14:14

that and

1:14:17

the Mabuhe Gardens as well.

1:14:22

And then... Wasn't that farm your first

1:14:24

show with RKL? It

1:14:27

was. Yeah. Day on the

1:14:30

farm right or day at the farm? Yeah.

1:14:33

Yeah. That was very first show. Who

1:14:35

else played that show? Do you remember? Osgood Flauter. Oh,

1:14:38

fucking awesome. Was it MDC? Oh yeah, probably our

1:14:40

attitude adjustment. Attitude adjustment? Probably verbal abuse.

1:14:43

Gosh. I'm sure we could

1:14:46

find the flyer. I

1:15:00

will definitely. Cause you used to play

1:15:02

there all the time. I mean, attitude adjustment, verbal abuse,

1:15:04

MDC, DRI. I mean, that's not bad

1:15:06

braids at the farm. Yeah.

1:15:12

You said the farm. It's so advanced at the farm. Well,

1:15:14

it's interesting cause like we're talking

1:15:16

about like LA, it

1:15:20

kind of dies off and I guess

1:15:26

it does come back with

1:15:28

a vengeance at a certain point, but

1:15:30

it's San Francisco. It just bubbles the whole way

1:15:32

through. And then by the time the nineties roll

1:15:34

around, the Bay area is kind of the, the

1:15:37

epicenter for punk rock and DIY punk rock

1:15:40

with like all the labels and metal. Oh

1:15:43

yeah. Metal too, I guess. Definitely.

1:15:45

Unfortunately, uh, I don't know as much about that genre.

1:15:48

So I'm a little lost when I start talking about

1:15:50

metal, but I think there's process, like

1:15:52

you're talking about verbal abuse, those across over kind of band

1:15:54

between the two worlds and attitude adjustment seems to be a

1:15:56

band that could have worked in both places as

1:15:59

well. When the first time

1:16:01

RKL went to San Francisco, we

1:16:05

couldn't get gigs in LA. Golden Voice

1:16:07

was basically running all the

1:16:10

shows in LA. And because we were

1:16:12

from Santa Barbara, we weren't

1:16:14

really a legitimate punk band.

1:16:16

They'd throw us a bone here

1:16:18

and there, but the shows we would get were

1:16:21

pretty crummy and the billing was usually

1:16:23

pretty bad. Like Mother's Day playing at

1:16:26

two o'clock on Mother's Day at the

1:16:29

Palladium with nine

1:16:31

more bands after us or something. And

1:16:33

so we just drove up to San

1:16:35

Francisco with nothing planned. And we heard

1:16:37

about this place where punk

1:16:39

bands could stay called the Vaps and it

1:16:41

was the Hams Beer Vaps and

1:16:45

MDC and DRI rehearsed

1:16:47

there. And

1:16:49

that first time we got up there, we

1:16:53

went to the MDC rehearsal space. I

1:16:55

think that's where we might've met Barry

1:16:58

and we had a gig

1:17:00

at the Mabue Gardens that night. And

1:17:03

I think it was with DRI.

1:17:07

And I mean, we

1:17:09

were just like, wow, this is so much cooler than LA.

1:17:15

And then, so then, Balmer

1:17:17

said, I'm moving to San Francisco and

1:17:20

we all ended up moving up there except

1:17:23

for Jason Sears never left

1:17:25

Santa Barbara. You

1:17:27

just loved it down there. It

1:17:32

is like, it seems like a much more

1:17:34

kind of fun vibe for

1:17:37

bands too. Like it seems like the bands you mentioned

1:17:39

are obviously, I guess all Texas that kind of move

1:17:41

up there but there is that kind of free,

1:17:48

I don't wanna say hippie because it's not, it's sort of

1:17:50

that free spirit vibe to San

1:17:52

Francisco. It was more friendly, that's for sure.

1:17:56

Yeah, people don't get knifed at Dickie shows

1:17:58

there. But

1:18:01

there was that foul record scene and the people talk about

1:18:03

like the fuckups and there were like Like

1:18:06

some sick pleasure. There were some

1:18:08

like tougher bands as well. I guess up

1:18:10

there Thank

1:18:12

bang. Yep. No one flipper

1:18:16

to hear some stories about flipper being

1:18:18

pretty intense and She's

1:18:20

like it's lately or more adult to the

1:18:23

San Francisco stuff like or

1:18:25

older. Yeah More mature probably

1:18:28

and more experimental. I mean dead Kennedy's

1:18:30

were kind of setting the pace for

1:18:32

that as well They

1:18:35

were so original You

1:18:38

know mixing surf Music

1:18:40

with punk rock and they weren't

1:18:42

just thrashing another thrash band So

1:18:47

what was your first tour Joe like was

1:18:49

it Europe It

1:18:51

was yeah It

1:18:54

was Europe with our channel and That

1:18:57

was in Was

1:19:02

it in 88? Yeah, we went there 88 89. Oh, yeah

1:19:04

88 89 okay,

1:19:08

I think I think I was thinking 87 because I was 17 but

1:19:15

Yeah, so 88 and that was

1:19:17

my first tour ever I had no idea of

1:19:20

what it was gonna be about and How

1:19:24

was gonna go about I didn't even have

1:19:26

any questions I was just like along

1:19:28

for the ride and I think everybody was

1:19:30

kind of doing the same thing, too you

1:19:33

know, we put a lot of faith into Dave

1:19:36

Pollock destiny because

1:19:39

you know Dave MDC

1:19:41

had hooked us up with

1:19:43

Dave Pollock and said yeah this

1:19:46

guy will you know take care of you and give

1:19:48

you a place to to

1:19:50

stay and then Also

1:19:53

Right. Yeah friends in Amsterdam who we

1:19:55

stayed with too as well. And

1:19:58

then he just looked us a tour

1:20:00

and most of the shows were at like

1:20:05

squats, like punk

1:20:07

rock occupied squats. And

1:20:11

it was a trip, you know, like we'd show

1:20:13

up for a gig and

1:20:16

we were like, where in the hell are we? It

1:20:18

was just like, it would look

1:20:20

like some bombed building, really, you

1:20:22

know, and you walk

1:20:24

in and there's all these like

1:20:26

community punks, like just walking around

1:20:29

and everybody has jobs and everybody's

1:20:31

doing something and they're in there

1:20:33

cooking us like dinner. And

1:20:36

then they just make these

1:20:38

weird venues in these in these old

1:20:40

decrepit buildings, you know, we just look

1:20:43

for the crumbling brick building with the

1:20:45

circle on the arrow through it and now

1:20:47

it's where we're playing. Yeah, pretty

1:20:50

much. Yeah. And then you'd

1:20:52

walk into the, you know, the music

1:20:55

hall or whatever you want to call it

1:20:57

the music room. And it'd

1:20:59

be just like in the basement,

1:21:02

you know, with like water leaking.

1:21:04

And, and like,

1:21:07

you know, I don't know, stereo

1:21:09

speakers for like PA or something

1:21:11

like that, like one microphone. It

1:21:16

was insane. A lot of these places were

1:21:18

just, they would get the gear, I guess,

1:21:21

wherever they could get it. And they

1:21:24

would just put these shows in. I mean, a lot

1:21:27

of them, what just went off because

1:21:29

like, even if everybody from the stock

1:21:31

squat, like showed up to the show,

1:21:33

there'd already be like, you know, 15,

1:21:35

100 people. You

1:21:37

know, these shows were

1:21:40

like really fun. And then, you know, we, we

1:21:42

got to play in front of a lot of

1:21:44

people. And then I think the word just got

1:21:47

out. I mean, you know, we were playing well,

1:21:49

we were on top of it. We

1:21:52

had our own gear, we shift our own

1:21:54

gear there. So no matter how loud the

1:21:56

vocals were over the music, the music was

1:21:59

just fucking intense. So

1:22:01

the word just got out and and

1:22:03

more and more people started showing up

1:22:05

to our shows. And at

1:22:07

the end of the tour we recorded that live record.

1:22:10

Yeah. Yeah, it

1:22:12

was we were getting out of the squats.

1:22:15

It was weird. And I and

1:22:17

I almost want to think

1:22:19

that Dave was just booking

1:22:21

the whole tour on the

1:22:23

fly. Because suddenly

1:22:26

like after like I

1:22:28

don't know like three weeks of touring

1:22:30

we're actually playing like real venues. And

1:22:32

I'm like, how did this happen? So

1:22:36

he must be he must have

1:22:38

gotten offers for us and then

1:22:40

we're starting to like play these real

1:22:42

venues and and and then

1:22:44

all these kids start showing up and we're

1:22:46

not playing like these dirty squats anymore. The

1:22:49

squats that we we do play,

1:22:52

they're more organized with like professional

1:22:54

music venues like Van Hall and

1:22:57

Amsterdam stuff like big pieces that

1:22:59

are that have their shit together.

1:23:03

And it was it was insane but we

1:23:05

were just basically along for the ride, you

1:23:07

know, like, they just got in a van.

1:23:11

And with all our gear

1:23:13

and another band, what who

1:23:15

opened up for us was No Pigs.

1:23:18

No, no pigs was

1:23:20

a part of it out there from Amsterdam

1:23:22

and then we had Archie's band.

1:23:24

No. Well, we had Dave Pollack's

1:23:26

band No Allegiance. Yeah.

1:23:29

And then the next

1:23:31

tour was Dave's other band. Happy

1:23:34

hour. Yeah, happy hour. Yep.

1:23:39

There's a funny story about No Allegiance. There

1:23:42

No Allegiance was trying to book a

1:23:44

US tour or to play in New

1:23:47

York and this guy Johnny Stiff from

1:23:49

New York was a promoter or a

1:23:51

booking agent in New York. And

1:23:57

he couldn't pronounce No Allegiance so we called

1:23:59

him No Wee. I Got

1:24:03

this band Norwegians from

1:24:05

Germany, what do you mean? Germans

1:24:11

from Germany Not

1:24:14

Norwegians Norwegians Yeah,

1:24:19

I had no idea he went on

1:24:21

tour with no pigs that bands fucking

1:24:23

amazing what a tour oh That

1:24:27

12 inches killer there's a European

1:24:30

squat venue system I

1:24:34

Assume it's still like this today. It certainly was like that when

1:24:36

I started going over and touring Europe like that is a Like

1:24:40

it just is a such an established

1:24:43

system That now I

1:24:45

think bands take it for granted, but

1:24:47

I imagine going over there for the first time and

1:24:49

seeing that It must

1:24:51

have been shocking like where you're getting fed

1:24:53

meals like granted the venues are dodgy and

1:24:55

the sleep places are a little suspect But

1:24:57

yeah, at least you're getting food Yeah,

1:25:00

I mean yeah, I miss Shiza.

1:25:03

I mean most of the time it was

1:25:05

a good time because like It

1:25:08

would be sketchy. I mean you would you would probably

1:25:11

think that there's bugs in the beds But

1:25:15

I was a quote in Bologna. I think they

1:25:17

said oh we have this room

1:25:19

We have a different room, but you can't

1:25:21

sleep there. They have how you say bugs

1:25:24

Yeah, but it was it was

1:25:26

great. I mean it was a party because

1:25:28

you'd have a Great

1:25:30

show and then you just go

1:25:32

upstairs and just rage with everybody from the

1:25:35

squad They

1:25:37

were just so happy to have The

1:25:40

band there you know any band Was

1:25:43

awesome That's

1:25:47

pretty much how how we survived. I think it was

1:25:49

like the little money we got went to gas and

1:25:51

And then all the beer and food we ate was

1:25:53

all supplied by the

1:26:00

slots pretty much. Yeah

1:26:03

it feels like there's a few bands

1:26:05

that didn't live up there, live over

1:26:07

there like you're saying you guys only did two tours but

1:26:09

it like would go over there and

1:26:11

in a pre Nirvana,

1:26:14

pre Green Day, pre Offspring kind

1:26:16

of world like it

1:26:18

was a lot more pleasant than touring North America

1:26:21

it would seem back then. Definitely

1:26:24

for sure. Still sketchy but it

1:26:26

was nicer for sure. I mean

1:26:28

there's no way that those squats would have

1:26:31

existed in the United States.

1:26:33

I mean they would have been destroyed

1:26:37

immediately by the kids

1:26:39

staying there for one thing and but that I

1:26:42

mean the organization was there I mean

1:26:44

it was it was pretty amazing we

1:26:46

were definitely impressed by the whole situation

1:26:48

and everywhere we went these

1:26:50

places were pretty amazing

1:26:52

and then I

1:26:55

just the fact that

1:26:57

the law allowed these kids to take over

1:26:59

these abandoned buildings and and

1:27:02

do stuff and have live music and

1:27:04

serve alcohol and food and that

1:27:07

would never happen here. No

1:27:09

you end up playing a bunch of crack

1:27:11

houses. Yeah the United States.

1:27:15

That's the North American equivalent I guess is

1:27:17

the. It is yeah it was well back

1:27:19

in the 80s that would be the

1:27:22

American. I mean it was a party because

1:27:24

you'd have a great

1:27:26

show and then you just

1:27:28

go upstairs and just rage

1:27:31

with everybody from the squad they were just

1:27:33

so happy to to have the

1:27:37

band there you know any band it was

1:27:39

awesome that's pretty much

1:27:42

how how we survived I think it

1:27:44

was like the little money

1:27:46

we got went to gas and and

1:27:48

then all the beer

1:27:50

and food we ate was

1:27:52

all supplied by the slots

1:27:54

pretty much. Yeah

1:27:57

it feels like there's a few bands

1:27:59

that. Didn't live up there live

1:28:01

over there like you're saying you guys only did two tours,

1:28:03

but it's like would go over there

1:28:05

and in a pre Nirvana

1:28:08

pre Green Day pre offspring kind

1:28:10

of world like It

1:28:12

was a lot more pleasant than touring North America.

1:28:15

It would seem back then For

1:28:18

sure sketchy, but it was

1:28:21

nicer for sure I mean, there's no way

1:28:23

that those squats would have existed in the

1:28:26

United States. I mean they would have

1:28:28

been destroyed immediately

1:28:32

By the kids staying there for one thing and but

1:28:34

that I mean the organization

1:28:36

was there I mean it was it was pretty

1:28:38

amazing We were definitely impressed

1:28:41

by the whole situation and everywhere we

1:28:43

went these places were pretty

1:28:46

amazing and then I

1:28:48

just the fact that that the

1:28:51

the law allowed these kids to take

1:28:53

over these abandoned buildings and Do

1:28:56

stuff and have live music and serve

1:28:58

alcohol and food and that

1:29:01

would never happen here No,

1:29:03

you know playing a bunch of crack houses

1:29:09

That's the North American equivalent I guess is

1:29:11

the it is yeah It was well back

1:29:13

in the 80s that would be the

1:29:16

American equivalent is crack You

1:29:20

know legal slots, I mean

1:29:22

when I was a young young kid I

1:29:24

went down with some older friends one of

1:29:26

them Vince from RKL the first one of

1:29:28

the first Baseballers we

1:29:30

had we went to an LA show and

1:29:33

we had nowhere to stay I don't remember even how

1:29:36

he got down there, but we ended up staying at

1:29:38

this Abandoned hotel in

1:29:40

Hollywood called I might

1:29:42

have been downtown LA actually it was

1:29:44

called they called it motel hell and

1:29:46

it was just like 12 story

1:29:48

abandoned hotel and they it was Sketchy

1:29:52

the people the people that

1:29:54

told us about it. Yeah, just get in

1:29:56

there find an empty room and barricade your

1:29:59

door And they

1:30:01

said don't go down into the lower

1:30:03

levels like below the street level because

1:30:05

it's extremely dangerous and it

1:30:07

was so sketchy Yeah,

1:30:10

or in the bats like like you're saying it

1:30:12

was pleasant But like you hear people talking about

1:30:14

how they thought it was very scary when they

1:30:16

were kids growing up there Like oh don't go

1:30:19

down to those bats place Terrifying

1:30:23

and scariest thing was that our guitar

1:30:25

player Al Pooped

1:30:28

in the stairwell and might

1:30:30

have flipped on it. He was

1:30:32

so dark Like

1:30:35

we are the scary people mister there's nothing

1:30:37

to be scared of we're pooping in the

1:30:39

halls You

1:30:42

guys break up in 89 and I

1:30:46

think I don't know who said in the band But

1:30:48

someone was saying it was like the worst decision to

1:30:50

break up at that time and that Still Because

1:30:54

we were coming off our second

1:30:57

European tour The

1:31:00

live in Berlin record is going off

1:31:03

like it's the first time in the

1:31:05

history of the band where we're like well,

1:31:08

especially Europe like selling it or

1:31:12

Playing in front of like 500 to

1:31:15

like a thousand people, you know,

1:31:18

I mean it was insane Like

1:31:21

to have that type of success in a

1:31:23

short amount of time I believe

1:31:25

like what like well, I mean the band had

1:31:28

been around for a long time But like

1:31:30

for really working and

1:31:32

touring, you know about

1:31:36

two years now we're playing

1:31:38

like all these

1:31:40

bigger venues and and like pro

1:31:43

places like real music venues

1:31:46

and then Like

1:31:48

Chris said at the receipt of Country Club, we

1:31:50

sell that place out I think the cap is

1:31:52

like a thousand was a thousand people What

1:31:55

do you know the chili peppers sold it out

1:31:57

the night before we played there? And

1:32:00

here we are, Arquiela, we're selling out

1:32:02

the same place Red Hot

1:32:04

Chili Peppers did. And

1:32:06

then after that gig, we decided to quit.

1:32:09

Like that doesn't make any fucking sense. We're

1:32:13

just writing new music too. You know,

1:32:15

like we put a new song out

1:32:17

on Live in Berlin, Rumors

1:32:19

and Bombers writing new song.

1:32:22

And we're writing new music and the

1:32:24

music's just as good as it was

1:32:26

on Rock and Roll Nightmare. And,

1:32:29

you know, the future looks bright and then

1:32:31

we decided to quit. Was

1:32:34

that the direction it was going to go in Rumors

1:32:36

versus the stuff that came in? Obviously, Reactivates a different

1:32:38

band with just the name on it. But like, was

1:32:41

it going to be like Reactivate, do

1:32:43

you think? Or would it have been more like the Rumors

1:32:45

song? If

1:32:47

Bomorik had continued to play drums

1:32:49

and help, you know, he

1:32:52

wrote a lot of that crazy stuff on Rock

1:32:54

and Roll Nightmare. Yeah, I probably would have continued

1:32:56

in that direction. But Bomorik

1:32:58

was clearly sick

1:33:01

of playing drums and buying cymbals and

1:33:03

sticks and drum heads and

1:33:06

carrying around drums. And he wanted to be

1:33:08

the front man. He

1:33:10

was like, why should this Jason guy

1:33:12

get to be up there in front, singing

1:33:14

most songs the way that not the

1:33:16

way that I hear it in my

1:33:18

head? So he felt like he had

1:33:20

to show the world how

1:33:23

he really wanted these songs to sound because he

1:33:25

I mean, he would wake up in the morning

1:33:27

with the song. Written in his head, all the

1:33:29

parts, all the vocal harmonies. And

1:33:31

it was like, I'm sure much

1:33:34

different than the way we played them. He like

1:33:37

it was more like Queen in his head,

1:33:39

you know, like fully orchestrated and graphically,

1:33:44

what do you say? Graphically

1:33:47

designed and whatever. Yeah,

1:33:51

I have this whole

1:33:53

album conceptualized and graphic

1:33:57

design. Yeah.

1:34:01

He had always said that Jason was holding us

1:34:04

back and then he thought we could be like

1:34:06

Aerosmith or Chili Peppers or Living Color and that's

1:34:08

kind of the direction he was trying to pull

1:34:10

us into this, you know,

1:34:13

when he wanted to be the next queen

1:34:15

basically or I mean kind

1:34:17

of apparently Living Colors was kind of

1:34:20

the soulful funky

1:34:23

rock music, you know. Which

1:34:26

was going off at the time

1:34:28

really a lot of bands like

1:34:30

that were coming out, you know.

1:34:32

Rich Kids and LSD is a very high

1:34:34

concept band so it makes sense that these

1:34:36

things were kind of conceptualized in

1:34:39

his head because like graphically right out of

1:34:41

the gate there's a visual identity for this

1:34:43

band and like you're

1:34:45

saying with the comic book coming with the record

1:34:47

like these things felt more

1:34:50

than just a collection of songs which is like

1:34:52

a lot of hardcore bands albums when they wind

1:34:54

up doing full LPs it felt like this was

1:34:57

like an actual record like

1:35:00

a real band would make quote unquote real

1:35:02

band. Yeah

1:35:05

I mean once

1:35:08

again I think it was

1:35:10

like Balmer's Vision, you know. I mean

1:35:12

Rock and Roll Nightmare he basically wrote

1:35:14

a lot of that album too and

1:35:18

you know songs like Break the Camels Back like

1:35:22

Chris was saying, you know like going

1:35:24

in you laugh at what they

1:35:26

call the house PA battered and frayed we

1:35:28

won't get paid today or battered

1:35:30

and frayed we won't

1:35:33

sound good today and later on we find we

1:35:35

don't get paid, you know what I mean. That's

1:35:37

like stuff that they

1:35:39

lived through and he did conceptualize that

1:35:41

whole thing. In the comic book idea

1:35:44

and with along with Danny's our work

1:35:46

I mean the whole thing was

1:35:51

pretty amazing how it all came together

1:35:53

considering how scattered we all were. It's

1:35:56

pretty epic because I mean

1:35:58

I know that there were other who

1:36:01

tried to do the same thing. But

1:36:06

no punk band, as far as I know,

1:36:09

had done any kind of production

1:36:11

like that before. Yeah,

1:36:14

like the only thing I could think of that's kind of comparable

1:36:16

to like the visual identity

1:36:18

and sort of the vibe of the band is

1:36:20

something like the Mistsits, where they kind of like

1:36:22

had this whole sort of conceived vision.

1:36:25

And this is like, not

1:36:27

at all like the Mistsits, but like very much in

1:36:29

the same sort of way that without

1:36:31

even seeing the band live, you knew the vibe from

1:36:34

just listening to records and flipping through the

1:36:36

liner notes. Right, yeah. Except

1:36:39

for the kids that thought we were a straight edge band. Yeah.

1:36:44

Were there kids that thought you were a straight

1:36:47

edge? On the first, maybe the first US

1:36:49

tour we showed up and all these kids had

1:36:51

X's on their hands because we

1:36:53

had that song, Y and Pothead. So

1:36:56

they're like, yeah, yeah, Life in

1:36:58

a Bottle. There's a lot of kind of

1:37:00

anti-drug songs in our catalog, but

1:37:06

we were talking about ourselves. Hey,

1:37:10

Chris, do you remember that show in Europe

1:37:12

that we showed up for the gig? And

1:37:15

it was like all straight edge kids

1:37:18

and it was a straight edge venue? No,

1:37:21

but I remember it in the States,

1:37:23

yeah. There

1:37:25

also was a show in Europe where we showed up and

1:37:31

it was a total straight edge show. We

1:37:35

could show up and we're smoking pot

1:37:37

and drinking and the kids

1:37:40

are freaking out. And

1:37:43

they totally thought that RKL was a

1:37:46

straight edge band and

1:37:48

they were giving us tons of shit.

1:37:50

And I remember that we didn't even

1:37:52

play that show. We just fucking bailed.

1:37:57

Probably smart. It

1:38:00

will reveal the buzz. Yeah

1:38:02

it was a buzz kill and I will

1:38:05

say if we we wanted to keep the

1:38:07

party go a man of those guys were

1:38:09

sticks in the mud. And

1:38:12

our partner when I was treated. but now

1:38:15

that I smoke weed pot head hit so

1:38:17

differently. it's it's own. It's

1:38:20

yeah service heroin of as know be

1:38:22

a very of what I just stuck

1:38:24

to the pot. It. Is

1:38:27

of the move was but. Drugs.

1:38:29

Are. Certainly. A part of

1:38:31

the bands. External

1:38:34

story: People put that on the band

1:38:36

and it seems like. Drugs

1:38:39

were an issue of and I was

1:38:41

wondering if that was something the whole

1:38:43

time or said something that kind of

1:38:45

started later on. Pretty

1:38:47

early on. Saw

1:38:51

some of our friends started

1:38:53

using needles. Before.

1:38:55

With way before we even moved to San Francisco.

1:38:59

Palmer. Had hepatitis from shooting

1:39:01

drugs and that's when he

1:39:03

wrote Rock and Roll Nightmare.

1:39:08

Because. He was stuck at

1:39:10

home with hepatitis he less

1:39:12

he left our tour. I.

1:39:14

Think it was the ninety. Five

1:39:18

Disaster. He left from New York

1:39:20

as he had hepatitis and we

1:39:22

we we had his eye holloway

1:39:24

from New York to California with

1:39:26

no shows and that's when bomber

1:39:28

road rock'n'roll neighbor who's is stuck

1:39:31

him He wrote down record. Of

1:39:34

remember when I went to

1:39:36

go audition. For. Rtl

1:39:39

that bomber had mentioned.

1:39:41

That he had gotten over hepatitis

1:39:44

and was right after. Yeah.

1:39:46

That was like right after and I

1:39:49

don't even know what hepatitis was. I

1:39:51

was afraid that was get a chance that didn't eat.

1:39:55

Or. i

1:39:59

would you did you have awareness show did you

1:40:01

have about drugs and drug culture prior

1:40:04

to being in the band? Like you're a kid

1:40:06

but you're also growing up. Well

1:40:09

my extent of drug

1:40:11

use up until

1:40:13

that point was pretty

1:40:17

much just weed. I smoked

1:40:19

a lot of weed, drank

1:40:21

too and

1:40:24

had taken psychedelics but

1:40:28

I wasn't well versed

1:40:30

in, no one was doing heroin

1:40:32

in high school or anything like that. No one

1:40:34

was really doing speed. Well I

1:40:36

had a few friends who did speed but I

1:40:38

never had done speed or cocaine

1:40:40

or no no no straws but

1:40:42

but it's but as far as like

1:40:45

tripping you know doing

1:40:48

polysynthegenics I had

1:40:50

done that before so that was that

1:40:52

was the extent of my drug use up

1:40:55

until that point. It's

1:40:57

sort of a tragic story of punk rock

1:40:59

the whole way through is needle

1:41:01

drugs but in particular heroin and it

1:41:03

shows up it always

1:41:06

shows up for some reason in punk and

1:41:08

I guess it's people dealing with trauma, self-medicating

1:41:11

but right from the get-go in

1:41:13

every scene to this day like I lost

1:41:15

friends in the last few years because of

1:41:17

opioids and it's it's this

1:41:20

weird specter that hangs over the

1:41:22

scene at every step stage.

1:41:26

Yeah just punk either and it's a

1:41:28

lot of rock music and

1:41:31

new wave as well.

1:41:33

I mean really if you think

1:41:35

about it it's just music is

1:41:37

just kind of collateral damage I think that

1:41:41

you know it's just overall

1:41:43

it's just an epidemic you

1:41:45

know what I mean especially with the

1:41:48

influx of fentanyl too you know

1:41:50

it's just not music I think I think

1:41:52

musicians are like kind of like you

1:41:54

know the suffering type of souls or

1:41:57

whatever and and doing drugs

1:42:00

kind of puts you into a

1:42:02

mental headspace that I think if

1:42:05

you're creative, it might make

1:42:07

you think that you're

1:42:09

writing better stuff. But, you

1:42:13

know, I mean, there's, there's

1:42:16

a lot of musicians that are actually,

1:42:18

you know, insanely

1:42:21

talented, who have done

1:42:23

heroin. And I don't know if it's the heroin

1:42:25

or the musician, but there

1:42:28

is some kind of correlation, you know,

1:42:30

it doesn't make me want to

1:42:33

do heroin. It

1:42:35

doesn't make me want to do heroin.

1:42:37

But I mean, I could see how

1:42:39

that like kind of helps the

1:42:42

person along in that in that journey, you

1:42:44

know. I think

1:42:46

though, because punk is so honest

1:42:49

and open, well, at

1:42:51

times with itself, but like

1:42:54

going back to like proto punk stuff, like

1:42:56

the Velvet Underground with heroin. And it's

1:42:58

not necessarily that punk glamorizes it, because

1:43:01

there are all these cautionary tales with

1:43:03

it. But it's just part

1:43:05

of the story. Like how many kids are like, well,

1:43:07