0:02

Amazon business honors Jill

0:04

Lau, chief procurement officer of

0:06

Global Network Bank. Last week,

0:08

Jill saved big and used Amazon business

0:10

to help her team buy three hundred and twenty

0:12

seven headsets. Now, Bob can keep

0:14

his conversations to himself. Wait.

0:17

Am I still on speakerphone? With business buying

0:19

easier than before, Jill now uses

0:21

her extra time to focus on growing

0:23

something big. Buy smarter.

0:25

Dream bigger. Visit Amazon Business,

0:28

your partner for Smart Business Buying.

0:30

Hang it up, Bob.

0:34

Today with Amazon business, Shannon Stuckey

0:36

of Wallburn woodworking helped her team by sixty

0:38

three circular saws. Okay, Andy. big

0:40

anymore. Now she uses her time to focus

0:42

on growing something big. Buy smarter.

0:45

Dream bigger. Visit Amazon Business,

0:47

your partner for smart business buying. Hello

0:49

campers. Grab your marshmallows and

0:52

gather around the True Crime Camp Fire. We're

0:54

your camp counselors. I'm Katie, and

0:56

I'm Whitney. And we're here to tell

0:58

you a true story that is way stranger

1:00

than fiction or roasting murderers and marshmallows

1:02

around the True Crime Camp Fire.

1:11

Sometimes there's no easy way out

1:13

of the dark place you find yourself in,

1:15

especially if that dark place

1:17

puts you under the control of someone bigger

1:19

than you, stronger than you, someone

1:21

dangerous and unpredictable. And

1:24

as much as you might fantasize about action

1:26

movie struggles and daring escapes, there

1:28

are other ways to fight back. You can

1:30

use smarts and your courage to decide on

1:32

course of action that'll give you the best chance of

1:34

survival and stick to it no matter

1:36

what. Sometimes the bravest

1:39

thing you can do is just keep going.

1:42

This is this is not a joke,

1:44

the abduction of Karen Kumer.

2:00

So campers for this one were in Daytona

2:02

Beach, Florida, November twenty seventh,

2:05

two thousand

2:05

and six. It

2:06

was gonna be a beautiful warm fall day,

2:09

not that unusual for y'all lucky duckies

2:11

down in Florida, but the sun wasn't even

2:13

up yet when Karen Kumer got

2:15

up and started getting ready

2:16

for work. That

2:17

was her routine. Get up at five thirty,

2:19

have coffee and breakfast, get herself put together,

2:22

and leave for work by seven. Karen

2:24

was forty nine years old and not long ago

2:26

her twenty year marriage had broken up.

2:28

In the aftermath of that, she'd left

2:30

her native New Hampshire and moved down to Florida.

2:32

where her sister lived and where the winter climate was

2:35

just a coaster too warmer than it is in

2:37

New England. And as you might have

2:39

figured out from the whole getting up for work at five

2:41

thirty thing, it didn't take her long to start

2:43

putting a new life together down there. She

2:45

got a good job as a financial director for

2:47

local hospital. She was making it work.

2:49

starting to find her stride again after the divorce.

2:52

Life act two. Just

2:55

before seven, Karen and her snazzy

2:57

suit and heels got in her car and started

2:59

driving to the hospital for work. On

3:01

the way there, she noticed a warning light on

3:03

her dashboard telling her the trunk was open.

3:05

This had happened before. I guess she wasn't

3:08

one of life's slammers and some trunks

3:10

just need a good slamin. So she

3:12

pulled over and walked around to the back of the car

3:14

to close

3:14

the trunk. And as soon

3:16

as she touched the car, the trunk came

3:18

flying open. A big

3:20

man dressed all in black, leaped out and

3:22

grabbed her with one hand. In

3:25

his other hand, he had a knife.

3:27

He dragged Karen around to the passenger

3:29

door of her car.

3:30

She screamed, of course, and he tightened

3:32

his grip on her arm and said if you do that again,

3:34

I'll cut you right here. It

3:37

was enough to keep her quiet. The

3:39

man shoved her into the passenger seat of

3:41

her car and hurried around to get behind the wheel.

3:44

Karen was scared out of her mind and

3:46

not just from the sudden shock of the attack,

3:48

but also because she just realized

3:50

that the man in black was no stranger. She

3:53

knew him. He was Scott Freeman,

3:55

her ex boyfriend, and she was terrified

3:57

of him.

3:59

Scott

3:59

drove Karen's car to his house and with

4:02

the knife back in his hand dragged her into

4:04

his own vehicle, a black Jeep, packed

4:06

up for a long trip. He

4:08

started driving, Karen

4:10

noticed a pair of tan suede gloves on

4:12

the dashboard. They gave her a

4:14

bad feeling. It was hot

4:16

out, why would he need gloves? What

4:19

are those four, she said? So

4:21

I won't get your blood on my hands, Scott

4:23

said. And that

4:25

was just the start of a day's long nightmare

4:28

for Karen Kumer. So

4:30

how did we get here to this smart accomplished

4:33

woman suddenly becoming the lead in a scene

4:35

that could have come straight

4:36

from a horror movie?

4:38

Ten months earlier, Karen had just moved down

4:40

to Florida and she was feeling kinda lonely.

4:42

Her son was back up in New England. She was

4:44

single for the first time in decades. She

4:46

had friends, but she wanted something more.

4:49

She wanted a companion again. And

4:51

then one night, she was out at a bar with her

4:53

sister and a guy after to dance.

4:55

He was a little younger than she was and he seemed

4:58

fun and he was good looking if you're into that

5:00

kind of thing by which I mean he was a personal

5:02

trainer and he looked like a fridge

5:03

and a soup.

5:05

Dude was huge. He would have fit right

5:07

in jumping off the chopper with Schwartz and Ager

5:09

and Jesse Ventura and Predator. Okay?

5:12

that guy. He introduced himself

5:14

as Scott Freeman. Karen

5:16

danced with him, and after that, they went for a walk

5:18

on the beach. They were getting along. And

5:20

when Scott asked for her phone number she gave it

5:23

to him. And before long, they were dating.

5:26

Scott moved fast. He focused

5:28

all his attention on Karen, showering

5:30

her with flowers and compliments, making

5:32

her feel like most important person in his

5:34

world. And I think you all probably

5:37

know what love bombing is by now and you

5:39

probably also know that it can be real damn

5:41

hard to resist. It's especially if you're

5:43

in an emotionally vulnerable place like Karen

5:45

was at the time. There

5:48

were few things in their early relationship that

5:50

in hindsight were super red

5:52

flaggy, but at the time didn't seem like a

5:54

big deal. Like, when they've been

5:56

dating just a couple of weeks, Karen

5:58

went out with some people after work. When

6:01

she got home, there were ten voicemails

6:03

from Scott waiting for her. All

6:05

friendly, flirty stuff, nothing weird,

6:07

but You know, ten

6:10

voicemails? Mhmm. Within

6:12

a couple of months, Scott had moved into

6:14

Karen's pretty pink ranch house, which isn't

6:17

usually a great idea.

6:18

And before y'all send us

6:20

angry emails,

6:21

I'm sure it's worked out great for

6:23

some of you, and sometimes it will. Sure.

6:26

But, like, if

6:26

your relationship is younger than your leftover

6:29

Halloween candy, maybe don't move in

6:31

together or get married or buy

6:33

a time share together or whatever. It's a

6:35

bold of you to assume that I have any leftover hell

6:37

in this place. Just

6:39

inhaled at all.

6:40

Yeah. That's what I'm saying, though. It's a

6:42

that's a

6:43

young relationship, man. It's you know, we've we've said

6:45

it, you know, we've compared it to Brita filters

6:47

in the past -- Mhmm. -- the spinach the

6:49

spinach that you forgot you have in your

6:51

-- Right. -- your fridge,

6:54

you know. Just kind of is

6:56

this are we moving too farishable? think

6:58

now. Yes. Think that in your

7:00

brain. And once

7:02

he ensconced himself in Karen's house,

7:04

Scott started letting his mask

7:05

slip or

7:06

before he'd been gentlemanly,

7:08

now he's controlling.

7:10

before he'd been full of compliments. Now

7:12

he's full of critiques.

7:14

I mean, he had her now, so why keep up

7:16

the act?

7:17

He was free now to be himself by

7:19

which I mean a useless insecure man

7:21

child with an unwashed ass.

7:24

Yeah. y'all y'all know the type.

7:26

You know who exactly who I'm talking about.

7:30

Everything about Karen was fair game for Scott.

7:33

He criticized how she dressed. how she

7:35

acted, what she said, who she picked

7:37

for friends. He'd yell at her, working

7:39

hard to make her feel as dumb or cheap

7:41

as possible. And I guess if

7:43

you squint, it makes a certain kind

7:45

of pathetic sense for an insecure

7:47

guy dating a woman who's a lot smarter

7:49

and more successful than he is. I mean,

7:52

you gotta do something to level the playing

7:54

field. Right? Yeah.

7:55

God forbid, you just enjoy being with

7:57

this really cool person that you went out of your

7:59

way to win over. breaker

8:01

down, man. That'll give you a little desiccated

8:03

reason of a hard a few seconds of smug satisfaction.

8:06

Right? Which I'm sure is way better than an

8:08

actual relationship.

8:10

Mm-mm. No. No. No. Everyone

8:12

knows that pathetic little razin

8:14

headed grandchildren need

8:17

to feel superior to everyone. even when

8:19

they are so far from the mark.

8:22

Over the next

8:24

few months, the good times got rarer and

8:26

the verbal abuse escalated into physical

8:28

abuse. leaving Karen with huge bruises

8:30

on her arms. But every time

8:32

it happened, Scott was contrite and weeping.

8:35

He'd changed, he swore, It

8:37

had never happened again. And

8:40

for a week or two, that would be true.

8:43

But then as predictable as a sunrise,

8:45

Scott's temper would start ratcheting up,

8:47

and the little rage goblin would crawl

8:49

out again. Karen,

8:51

of course, was having serious doubts about

8:53

the relation but contrary to popular belief,

8:56

it's not always easy to get out of a situation

8:58

like this, especially when you're living

9:00

with a guy and you're already physically afraid

9:02

of him. Right. think

9:04

I think the statistic

9:06

is that it takes some victim

9:08

of abuse about seven times to

9:11

successfully leave their partner. Yeah.

9:13

But

9:14

everybody has a breaking point,

9:16

a point of no return. In one night,

9:18

Karen reached it.

9:20

She and Scott were laying in bed together

9:22

and he started on on her, yelling

9:24

at her about hundred and one things she couldn't

9:26

do right that day. And Karen

9:29

just realized she'd had enough.

9:31

She got up out of the bed thinking

9:32

she'd go to sleep in the guest room,

9:35

and Scott flipped his shit. He

9:38

jumped up, shoved her to the floor, pinning

9:40

her down, and for the rest of the night,

9:42

he just loomed over her, screaming

9:44

and yelling in her face. Yeah. I haven't

9:46

been through that exact thing, and it's fucking

9:48

awful. And

9:50

that was it. The next day, Karen

9:52

kicked Scott's sorry ass out of her house.

9:55

She hoped she'd never have to see him again.

9:58

But you see for a control

9:59

freak loser like Scott?

10:02

Moving from being dumped to stocking

10:04

was as natural a move as a maggot turning

10:06

into a fly.

10:07

Mhmm.

10:09

How dare that bitch

10:10

try to get away from me?

10:12

All I did was treat her like less than

10:14

garbage. Why would she have a problem with

10:16

that? Women want to be treated

10:18

like shit, don't they? I

10:20

assume that's the inner monologue of

10:23

the Scotts out there. That plus, like,

10:25

a bunch of self pity, like -- Yeah. -- all

10:27

I ever did, blah blah blah. Shut

10:29

a fuck up. Mhmm.

10:31

Before long, Scott started showing

10:33

up at Karen's house, uninvited, and

10:35

with no warning. He started calling

10:37

her constantly. leaving message

10:39

after message. One weeping, the

10:41

next one angry, and when that

10:44

didn't get him what he wanted, he decided

10:46

to get creative. He turned

10:48

to page seventeen of the abuser's playbook,

10:51

blackmail.

10:52

See back when they were dating, Scott had taken

10:55

some sexy

10:55

naked pictures of Karen. She

10:57

hadn't really wanted to do it, but he talked her

10:59

into it. He still had the pictures

11:01

and threatened to send them to her bosses

11:04

at the hospital if Karen didn't take him back.

11:06

Just imagine what kind of a shriveled fucked

11:09

up husk of a soul you have to have to do

11:11

this to reinforce somebody to

11:13

date you. Why would you even want that to

11:15

be with somebody who hates you? It'd just be exhausting.

11:18

Mhmm. The thing is for Scott, this was all

11:20

about control. In his

11:22

mind, Karen was his property, and

11:24

all he needed was for her to continue to be

11:26

his love, genuine affection,

11:29

Even liking her, clearly these were completely

11:31

irrelevant, probably totally foreign concepts

11:34

to him. And this little blackmail scheme

11:36

would open up a whole new aspect of Karen's

11:38

life that he could control,

11:40

her career, and

11:41

how her colleagues saw her, and that was something

11:43

that meant lot to Karen. This

11:45

was in two thousand and six, by the way, and this

11:47

problem has gotten astronomically worse

11:49

since. According to the National Association

11:51

of Attorney's General, incidents of

11:53

revenge porn, which isn't exactly

11:56

what this is, but definitely in the same ballpark.

11:59

Mhmm. Gone up more than four

12:01

hundred percent in the past five

12:03

years. So revenge

12:05

porn, of course, is where, like, a vengeful

12:07

x will share your actual pictures or

12:09

videos without your permission, usually somewhere

12:11

on the Internet, whereas what Scott was doing

12:13

to Karen fits a little bit better with the term

12:16

sex distortion, but they're very much you

12:18

know, in the same region,

12:20

I think, and very much motivated by the

12:22

same shit stained way of thinking. Do what you

12:24

want or I'll ruin you. So,

12:27

anyway, forty eight states plus the District

12:29

of Columbia have criminalized it, but people

12:31

are still very much doing it and it can be

12:33

hard to prove and hard to prosecute. So

12:35

the problem is still going

12:36

strong, unfortunately.

12:38

And

12:39

here's the thing is

12:41

honorary friend of the show,

12:43

Gavin DeBecker, kind of refers to this

12:45

in his book, the Giftafear aka

12:47

the TCC Bible.

12:49

Mhmm. Where he talks about

12:50

if somebody is blackmailing you with something like

12:53

this, the best thing you can

12:55

do is take their power away.

12:57

Right. And

12:58

it might be embarrassing. It

13:00

might be humiliating, and that is the point

13:02

of it. But -- Right. -- if you can go

13:04

to your boss. If you can go to your family and

13:06

say, listen. This

13:07

motherfucker is telling

13:09

me that he's gonna send you

13:11

these pictures. I

13:12

want you to know that there that that might happen

13:15

because Again, once once

13:17

the once it's out there, the power's gone. The

13:19

blackmail isn't gonna

13:20

work anymore.

13:21

Right. And I've also I've also seen some

13:24

very

13:25

intelligent young people in

13:27

the the younger generations, I sound so old,

13:30

where they are

13:31

subtly editing their noodles

13:34

their news. And,

13:37

like, putting time stamps

13:39

and who they're sending it to, like, editing

13:41

it so you can barely see it. so that

13:43

they can identify who leaked what,

13:45

which think is fucking brilliant. It's

13:48

brilliant.

13:49

Yeah.

13:51

that's horrible that we would have to think.

13:53

Yeah.

13:54

So, yes, that would be the way to handle it.

13:57

But, like, a lot of us would, Karen

13:59

gave in to Scott's students, both because

14:01

she was worried about losing her job and

14:03

because she was scared shitless of him.

14:05

If he would go this far threatened

14:07

to tear her whole life apart, what else

14:10

Mightie Do. Were there any limits? She

14:12

was afraid to find out. So

14:15

after that, they were dating

14:17

again. I mean, that's not the right word, but I don't

14:19

know if there actually is a right word to describe

14:22

the shape of this relationship at this point

14:24

hostage situation. Maybe

14:26

Until Scott's violent temper

14:29

flared up again and Karen tried yet again

14:31

to cut off all contact with him. She

14:33

was scared to live alone, so she asked her niece Brenna

14:36

to move in with her. And she told the security

14:38

guards at her job to keep an eye out for Scott.

14:41

On November eleventh, Scott called Karen's

14:43

phone twenty seven times, leaving

14:46

a whole series of threatening messages about

14:48

how he could get to Karen any time, and

14:50

Breno wouldn't be able to stop him. As

14:53

scary as all this was, what this rancid

14:55

slab of beef cake had just done

14:57

was provide solid evidence of his stalking

15:00

and threats. It meant Karen finally

15:02

had something she could take to the police. But

15:05

would she get the chance? On

15:07

November thirteenth, as she drove to the courthouse,

15:10

Karen pulled up to a stop

15:11

sign in her neighborhood.

15:13

Scott Freeman burst out of bushes

15:15

at the side of the road and leapt into the passenger

15:17

seat of her car. He still had the keyless

15:19

entry fob for when they were dating, and he just

15:21

unlocked the door before he pounced in there.

15:24

He took out a knife, held it to Karen's throat

15:26

and told her to drive. And

15:28

all the while, he ranted and raved at how this

15:31

was all her fault. She'd forced him

15:33

to do it. That's what they always say, you forced me

15:35

to do this. This is all your fault. he needed

15:37

to see her and she wasn't taking his calls and blah

15:39

blah blah. And if she went to the police,

15:41

he would kill her. If

15:43

she ran away from Daytona Beach, he'd be

15:45

able to find her because he had her social security

15:47

number.

15:48

He was all over the map,

15:49

threatening and needy and the same breath.

15:52

The guy was clearly unstable

15:54

and she knew from experience that he was more than

15:56

capable of violence. Karen

15:58

thought there was a real possibility

15:59

that she could die right there in her car.

16:02

But

16:02

her experience had also taught her a few things

16:04

about how to handle him. Namely

16:06

that the way to calm him down when he was like this

16:08

was to give him what he wanted, just let

16:11

him win. So she told

16:13

him she'd see him that night. And that child's

16:15

got out enough that he actually got out of the car and

16:17

let her go to work. In

16:19

a panic, Karen called her sister who,

16:21

of course, told her she needed to go to the police

16:23

right now, get all this on record and apply

16:25

for a restraining order. That

16:28

was probably the right call, but Karen

16:30

still had to be talked into it, which is actually

16:32

understandable because your your

16:34

mind always wants to go right to restraining

16:36

order and they can be

16:38

a useful tool But, you know,

16:40

as our buddy Gavin DeBecker has pointed out,

16:43

and also a number of experts

16:45

in this field, FBI

16:47

profilers, etcetera, have said that really

16:49

The best

16:51

situation in which to apply for a

16:53

restraining order is one in which you're pretty

16:55

sure the person will comply with it.

16:57

Right. Because if

16:59

you're not sure of that. And if

17:01

your concern is that it's just gonna make them

17:03

furious, then that might not

17:05

actually be the best way to proceed. because

17:07

sometimes the restraining order itself will end

17:10

up be being what triggers an

17:12

incident. So it it's just important.

17:14

Sometimes it's a great idea. Sometimes

17:16

it's not. It depends on the situation.

17:18

Mhmm.

17:19

So Karen, I think,

17:21

was aware of all that, and still she

17:23

kinda had to be talked into that. Now

17:26

going to the police, I think, was essential. The restraining

17:28

order part is what I'm talking about. Right.

17:30

She knew how angry that

17:33

would make Scott. how angry any

17:35

of it would, whether she just went to the police and

17:37

made a report or what, and how dangerous

17:39

that could make him. But you know,

17:42

ultimately, she didn't really see any way around

17:44

it. So eventually, she went ahead.

17:46

Karen got the restraining order on November

17:48

twenty first. It said Scott could be

17:50

arrested if he came within five hundred

17:52

feet of her. This didn't do much

17:54

for Karen's state of mind though. She

17:57

was scared to leave the house. She couldn't

17:59

go to the store by

17:59

herself. Every

18:01

day, Brenna called to make sure she

18:03

had made it to work, In the evening, Karen

18:05

called back to tell her she was on her way home.

18:08

And she let Brenna know that if she didn't show up

18:10

within a few minutes of when she was supposed to,

18:12

something had gone horribly wrong.

18:15

Karen had even talked with her sister and Brenna

18:17

about what they should all do if Scott kidnapped

18:20

her. And on November twenty

18:22

seventh, which is where we started this story,

18:24

those fears became awful reality.

18:27

When Scott burst out of the trunk of Karen's

18:29

car and kidnapped her at knife point.

18:31

She'd had the keyless entry for the doors

18:34

changed after the last time he busted

18:36

in on her car, but she didn't think to

18:38

do the same for the trunk. Well, of

18:40

course, I mean, most of us wouldn't expect

18:42

somebody to hide in our trunk and jump

18:44

out at us like some flipping dolph,

18:46

lumber, and jack in the box. It just wouldn't occur

18:48

to us as a possibility. And

18:50

it genuinely wouldn't have have occurred

18:52

to me that those would be different. You know what

18:54

I mean? Like, I just would have Right. Until now,

18:56

I'd be like to. Mhmm. Damn.

18:58

Now I know. Now I know. I gotta change both.

19:02

So now, she was in Scott's Black Jeep.

19:05

driving north, trapped beside the man

19:07

she had been in mortal terror of for weeks.

19:10

She knew there was a good chance he would kill

19:12

her. She thought This might

19:14

end with my body in ditch somewhere.

19:17

At least for this early stage of the road trip

19:19

from hell, Scott had a plan. He

19:21

took Karen's credit cards and cell phone,

19:23

then made her call in sick to work. After

19:26

that, he had her call her niece Brenna

19:28

with a prepared story.

19:30

Karen was with Scott because Scott was threatening

19:32

to kill himself and she was trying to help him

19:34

get through it. I'm okay.

19:37

He made her Tell Brenna. I'm

19:38

here of my own free will.

19:40

Don't call the police.

19:43

Scott probably thought he

19:45

was being a extra crafty hair.

19:47

But the thing was, Karen had already told

19:49

everybody close to her what to do if something

19:51

like this ever happened.

19:53

Look, she told them,

19:54

if I ever call in Sam with Scott

19:56

for any reason, then no matter what

19:58

I say, call the cops and tell them

19:59

I've been abducted. Smart girl.

20:02

Yeah. I love that. Yep.

20:04

So when Brenna got that phone call, her

20:06

whole body went cold. She

20:08

knew what must be happening. She must

20:11

have wanted so badly to say, aunt

20:13

Karen, are you okay? Has he hurt you?

20:16

But she had to know he was listening.

20:18

So she had to just say,

20:20

okay, no problem. Thanks for letting me

20:22

know. Oh, god. And the

20:24

second, she hung up the phone. Brenna

20:26

dialed nine eleven. As

20:29

the Daytona Beach PD were jumping

20:31

on the case, unbeknownst to him, of

20:33

course, Scott made stop just a short

20:35

way to the north in Saint Augustine. Here,

20:37

he bought one change of clothes for Karen,

20:40

then took her to the bank and made her withdraw

20:42

five hundred dollars. And

20:44

he was right by her side the whole time.

20:46

So

20:46

if you're wondering why she didn't make a run for

20:48

it or yell for help, he was right there

20:51

with his knife in his pocket and Karen

20:53

had no doubt he would try to kill her. And

20:55

who knows who else if they tried to get in his way?

20:58

Exactly.

21:00

Investigators had no idea where Scott

21:02

was or what he was doing with Karen. All

21:04

they had was the phone call to Brenna. But

21:07

Scott's past behavior and the fact that Karen

21:09

had protective order in place had them worried.

21:11

They

21:12

put out a statewide beyond the lookout,

21:14

on his car. Karen didn't know

21:16

it yet, but a whole group of people were

21:18

already working to bring her home safe.

21:34

Whether it's Kroger simple

21:36

truth Turkey or mac and cheese

21:38

with Murray's English Cheddar, or

21:40

pie made with fresh cosmic crisp apples.

21:42

There are many dishes we look forward to sharing

21:44

during

21:45

the holidays, and Kroger has all the

21:47

fresh ingredients you need to turn today's

21:49

holidays into tomorrow's

21:51

memories. Kroger, fresh

21:53

for everyone. And right now, you

21:55

can save when you shop your faves. Just

21:57

buy six or more participating sale items and

21:59

save fifty cents

21:59

each with your card. Kroger,

22:02

fresh for everyone.

22:04

Have you been waiting for just the right

22:06

job? And welcome to the end of your

22:09

search. Amazon has seasonal

22:11

warehouse jobs in your area and

22:13

now is great time to apply. You can

22:15

start getting paid right away and work

22:17

close to home. Applying is easy.

22:20

You don't even need an interview. So

22:22

what are you waiting for? Come join the team

22:24

and get a great seasonal job offer

22:26

today. Visit amazon dot

22:28

com slash hiring. Amazon

22:30

is an equal opportunity employer.

22:48

That night thirteen hours after

22:50

abducting Karens got pulled into a motel

22:53

with what she knew about Scott Karen had by

22:55

now to sided on how she was gonna handle him

22:57

by being totally submissive.

23:00

She

23:00

was gonna do whatever he wanted.

23:02

It

23:02

was humiliating, but she thought it was her

23:04

best chance of staying alive And let me stop

23:06

just a second to say what an incredible amount

23:08

of courage that must have taken and what

23:10

an incredible amount of emotional

23:13

strength. When survivors

23:15

tell their stories, there's always a lot

23:17

of judgey, like, Monday morning quarterbacking.

23:20

Well, if this happened to me, I'd have done this or

23:22

I'd have done that. hear a lot of, well, I had a

23:24

fought like hell and stuff like that. And it's understandable

23:26

to think about what we would do if we were

23:28

ever in that situation. Like, of course, you're gonna think

23:30

about it. There's nothing wrong with that. But

23:32

the fact is you don't know what you're gonna

23:35

do until it happens to you. And

23:37

not only that, but there's more than one way to

23:39

fight back. There's brute

23:41

force, which good for you if you've got the physical

23:43

wherewithal to use that successfully, but there's

23:45

also just doing what you have to do.

23:47

to get out alive. And in my opinion,

23:49

one is no better than the other. I

23:52

think Karen chose exactly the right

23:54

strategy here. She used what she knew

23:56

of her abductor, and she made the decision to do

23:58

what she had to do to get out of there. And to

24:00

me, that is every ounce as badass

24:02

as getting the guy in a headlock and holding

24:04

him there what you call the cops. So I just wanted

24:06

to say that right out of the gate.

24:09

Oh, absolutely. I I call what you just

24:11

referred to back seat victiming. And

24:13

and it's so frustrating, like, 0II

24:16

would have totally just kicked his ass.

24:18

Like, alright,

24:19

sometimes

24:21

That might have worked, but Karen knew Scott.

24:24

She

24:24

knew exactly how to get him

24:26

to calm down, to deescalate,

24:28

And, you know, this back seat victiming

24:30

thing, sometimes it feels like a way to, like,

24:32

shame the actual victim or set

24:34

yourself apart from them. like, we do that

24:36

all the time, especially, like, with cult cases, like, how could

24:38

you ever fall

24:39

for Charles Manson? How

24:41

could you ever fall for Jim Jones?

24:43

And while it's tempting to think that you

24:45

could quote do better, remember

24:48

that none of us were there. Yeah,

24:50

absolutely. So in

24:52

the motel room, knife at the ready,

24:54

Scott made Karen undress, and then put

24:56

on a t shirt. He told her they

24:58

were gonna act like they were still together. and

25:01

told her it was time to get into bed. Karen

25:04

thought if I refused, he'll kill me, and

25:06

she was probably right.

25:09

Afterwards, Scott forced her to take sleeping

25:11

pills because, you know, he wanted to make sure

25:13

he got his beauty rest without having to worry that

25:15

she might escape. I'm

25:17

sure he was just getting off on the amount of control

25:19

he had over her too. He was even taking

25:21

charge of her sleep. The

25:24

next morning, they were back on the road. Karen's

25:26

still a little groggy from the sleeping pills.

25:29

As they drove, Scott veered back and forth

25:31

between telling Karen how much he loved her and

25:33

ranting at her that this was all her fault.

25:36

Karen worked hard to stay calm so she could keep

25:38

him calm too, but inside her head

25:40

was spinning desperately trying to figure

25:42

her way out. She didn't dare make

25:44

a run for her or make a scene. She was too

25:46

scared of what he might do, so she'd have

25:48

to think of something more subtle. Back

25:51

in Daytona Beach, Karen's bank records

25:53

led police to that withdrawal in Saint Augustine,

25:56

and they got security footage of Scott looming

25:58

next to Karen at the counter at the bank

25:59

pointing it where wanted her to sign her

26:02

name.

26:02

This at least told him that as of yesterday,

26:05

Karen was still alive, but

26:07

it also told him that Scott was on the road

26:09

and that meant he could be nearly anywhere within

26:11

hundreds of miles. They

26:13

canvassed all around Saint Augustine with no results.

26:16

They needed a break. By

26:18

the next night, Scott was hundreds of miles

26:21

away, pulling into a motel just outside

26:23

of Charlotte, North Carolina. Throughout

26:25

the whole trip, Scott would only choose hotels

26:27

that took cash and didn't need ID.

26:29

If

26:29

he's soft at one that wanted a credit card or

26:32

driver's license, he'd just get back in the Jeep

26:34

and move on. He knew the cops would likely

26:36

have a trace on Karen's credit cards by now.

26:38

The second night Karen's

26:40

abduction went just like the first, only

26:42

this time, As she drifted off from her

26:44

forced dose of sleeping pills, she noticed

26:46

a little pad of hotel notepaper on

26:49

the bedside table. And

26:51

then she was asleep.

26:53

Scott, by the way, was not limiting his

26:55

pharmaceutical shenanigans to Karen's

26:57

sleeping pills. He picked himself

26:59

up a little crack habit too, which is

27:01

just what a guy like him needs to put the cherry

27:03

on top of the maniac Sunday.

27:06

And his drug habit meant that even though hotels

27:08

were pretty cheap, five hundred bucks was not

27:10

gonna last too long. In

27:12

the morning, just as they were about to leave the motel,

27:15

Scott turned his back on Karen for

27:17

just a second. and she jumped

27:19

at

27:19

her chance.

27:20

She grabbed that little pad of paper she'd

27:22

seen the night before and stuck it deep down

27:24

in her pants pocket. She didn't really

27:26

know what she was gonna do with it just that it might

27:29

come in useful.

27:30

That day, Scott continued to drive

27:32

through North Carolina. apparently with no

27:35

particular destination in mind.

27:37

When

27:37

we stopped for a bathroom break, Scott told

27:39

Karen not to try anything and stood right

27:41

outside the bathroom door while she was inside.

27:44

But

27:44

for Karen, this was her

27:46

chance.

27:48

Handshaking, she took out the hotel notepad,

27:51

found

27:51

a pen in her purse, and wrote

27:53

a message. My

27:55

name is Karen Kumer. I've

27:57

been abducted. Please call

27:59

the Daytona

27:59

Beach PD. This

28:02

is not a joke.

28:04

Yep. Karen

28:06

folded the note and stuck it in a short

28:09

way behind the paper towel dispenser. A

28:11

second later, Scott started hammering

28:13

on the door and telling her to hurry up.

28:16

Karen was suddenly scared. There

28:18

was a cleaning woman in the next stall.

28:20

What

28:20

if she found the note right away and said something,

28:23

but she couldn't back out now. She

28:25

didn't know if she'd ever have another chance.

28:27

As

28:28

she opened the bathroom door, Scott

28:30

grabbed her arm and told her he had his knife

28:32

ready, and he bundled her back into the

28:34

Jeep and hit the road.

28:37

This was a complete shot in the dark. Karen

28:40

had no idea if someone would find her

28:42

note or just toss it unread into the trash.

28:44

If somebody did read it, she didn't know whether

28:46

they'd take it seriously, how many

28:48

times have we seen that on the show? Way

28:50

too many. But it didn't

28:53

take long for a lady to find Karen's note.

28:55

And it's a miracle, but she

28:57

actually did take it seriously. Police

29:00

in Daytona Beach were hugely relieved

29:03

to hear something from Karen, to know

29:05

she was still alive. And

29:07

now they had somewhere to focus.

29:10

Local police calmed the area near

29:12

where the note had been found, but Scott and

29:14

his Jeep were far away by then headed

29:16

west. Later

29:18

on, he stopped for food at a barbecue

29:20

place in Bryson City, little town

29:22

in the great smoky mountains close to the Tennessee

29:24

border.

29:25

The chef there, Dana was out front

29:28

having a cigarette when the jeep backed it into

29:30

the parking spot. And as

29:32

Karen got out, Dana took a look at her

29:34

face and thought,

29:35

cheese. What's

29:36

wrong with her? Karen,

29:39

to say the least, didn't look happy.

29:42

A half hour later, Dana went to the bathroom

29:44

and found a folded piece of paper stuck behind

29:46

a paper dispenser.

29:49

My name is Karen Kumer. I've

29:51

been kidnapped.

29:53

please call the Daytona Beach PD.

29:56

This is not a joke. As

29:59

Dana read the note,

29:59

she thought immediately about the worried

30:02

looking woman she'd noticed getting out of the

30:04

black sheep about thirty minutes before.

30:06

She just knew it in her bones. That woman

30:08

had left this note. and she was in trouble.

30:11

Dana didn't hesitate.

30:13

She called nine eleven, good for

30:15

her.

30:16

The police who by now were working

30:18

with the FBI had gotten two notes

30:21

from Karen in the same day.

30:23

They

30:23

felt they were frustratingly close to rescuing

30:25

her. They had traces put on

30:27

credit cards, bank accounts, and cell phones,

30:30

but so far those hadn't given them anything.

30:33

Scott was still being cautious.

30:35

only using cash and keeping the cell phones

30:37

turned off.

30:38

Karen's notes were their best lead.

30:41

I just loved Karen so much lady is a survivor,

30:43

man. The way she kept her head through all this just

30:46

blows me away.

30:47

I have had chills since I

30:49

learned about this case.

30:51

Yeah. Way to hear, describe it herself

30:53

too. I mean, she's been on in interviews a

30:55

few times and, oh, you just wanna

30:57

shake her hand. Yep.

30:59

She's a she's a bad bitch, but like the good

31:01

kind. Absolutely. Good bad

31:03

bitch.

31:05

That night, Scott used a pay phone to call

31:07

his mom. I

31:08

guess mom hadn't heard from him in a few

31:10

days, you know.

31:11

And he didn't wanna leave her hanging.

31:14

He was just like,

31:16

Hey, mom. Just wanted to let you know that Karen

31:18

and I are taking a little vacation together.

31:22

But mom had been watching

31:24

the news. and she had a rude

31:26

awakening for her little man. Yeah.

31:28

Basically, Scott, what the hell are you doing?

31:30

You're one of her kidnapping? This

31:33

was a dangerous moment for Karen and

31:35

she knew it. As Scott ranted

31:37

and raved about the police investigation in their

31:39

motel room that night, she was terrified.

31:42

what if Scott watched the news and they mentioned something

31:44

about

31:44

the notes that she'd been leaving. He'd kill her if

31:46

he knew she'd been training and help. But

31:48

as scared as she was, Karen knew those

31:51

notes were her only potential lifeline,

31:53

and she was determined to keep leaving them whenever

31:55

she could. made her feel like she still

31:57

had some agency left, a way to try and

31:59

help herself.

31:59

But

32:01

shitty Scott threw a wrench into her plans

32:03

when he decided they were gonna spend all next day

32:05

and night in hotel room. She wasn't

32:07

sure why. Maybe the conversation with

32:09

his mommy had gotten to him, maybe his ass

32:12

was hurting from drive for driving for three

32:14

days straight. Who knows? Whatever

32:16

it was, it meant Karen had no chance to

32:18

leave a note on Thursday. And

32:20

that had the investigators hunting for her

32:22

seriously worried. The lead detective

32:25

from the Daytona PD thought it was pretty likely

32:27

that Karen was dead. She thought

32:29

this case was likely to end with Scott killing

32:31

Karen and then himself, and we've seen

32:33

situations like this in that way many

32:36

times. And without intervention, I

32:38

think that's exactly what was going to happen here.

32:41

Given Scott's temper and the fact that he didn't

32:43

seem to have any plan beyond wandering across

32:45

the south, this situation was going nowhere

32:47

good. By Friday,

32:49

December first, Karen had been in Scott's

32:51

clutches for five days. and

32:54

it was a bad day

32:55

from minute one.

32:56

Scott woke up angry and got

32:58

steadily worse as the day wore on,

33:00

more and more aggressive and out of control.

33:03

He

33:03

was stressed because they were running out of money

33:05

and because now

33:06

he knew for sure the cops were after him. I'm sure

33:08

the crack habit wasn't helping with his mood.

33:11

Specifically, they were running out of Karen's

33:13

money and I guess that made it her fault

33:15

somehow in whatever damp wad

33:18

of scrambled eggs were passing for Scott's mind

33:20

at that point anyway. So

33:22

that day, following whatever weird internal

33:25

map he had in mind, they headed south again.

33:27

During an afternoon bathroom

33:29

break at a gas station in Trenton, Georgia Karen

33:31

took the chance of writing another note.

33:33

She still had no idea whether anybody was

33:36

passing these on or even reading them.

33:38

But yet again, her shot in the dark

33:39

soon struck home. A

33:41

vacationing couple stopped at a gas

33:43

station for the same reason as Scott and Karen,

33:45

and while the lady was washing her hands, she noticed to

33:48

folded notes stuck half behind the faucet.

33:50

My name is Karen Kumar. I've been

33:53

kidnapped.

33:54

Please call the Daytona Beach PD. This

33:56

is not a joke.

33:58

The

33:58

hair on her neck prickling,

33:59

the lady called the police from the

34:01

gas station. And with alerts

34:04

about Karen's case lighten up all over the region,

34:06

police were searching the roads around Trenton within

34:08

a few minutes. But yet again,

34:10

they were just little too late.

34:13

but at least I knew Karen was still alive

34:15

and that was huge for everybody, especially

34:17

the people back home who loved her. Later

34:20

on that day, Karen left another bathroom

34:22

note in a tiny little town of Sneed, Alabama.

34:25

And yet again, a stranger found it,

34:27

and called the police, which is I think one of

34:29

the most astonishing things about this case

34:32

is that every single note

34:35

was found and every single person

34:37

who found one reported it.

34:39

That's amazing to me. I don't I've

34:41

never seen anything like that. No.

34:45

So everybody called the cops, but by the time they

34:48

got there, Scott's Jeep, inevitably, was

34:50

long gone. Karen was starting

34:52

to feel hopeless She didn't know if anybody had

34:54

found her notes or called the cops about them.

34:57

All she'd known for nearly a week was

34:59

terror and stress, and she was starting

35:01

to think nobody would ever come for her.

35:03

that there was no way out, and Scott

35:05

was rapidly losing what little control

35:07

of himself that he had.

35:09

They needed money to keep on traveling,

35:12

so he ordered Karen to call her niece,

35:14

Brenna. Scott told Karen

35:17

just what to say and told her to make

35:19

it convincing. She was to tell

35:21

Brenna she was fine and not to

35:23

worry. Brenna

35:24

was to forge Karen's signature on

35:26

a check for six hundred dollars. and

35:28

Scott's mom would come over and pick it up.

35:31

If

35:32

you heard the recording of this call without knowing

35:35

what was really going on, chances are you wouldn't

35:37

think this lady's in trouble. Karen

35:39

sounded a little rushed and a

35:41

little stressed, but lots of people do.

35:44

She stuck to Scott's script and acted

35:46

just like he told her.

35:48

It wasn't good enough for Scott though.

35:50

As

35:51

soon as she hung up, he started yelling

35:53

at her that she'd screwed it up, done it all wrong,

35:56

and then he drove down a quiet road

35:58

and parked the Jeep.

36:00

I'm

36:00

really tired of you, he said. shoving Karen's

36:03

head up against the window so hard it hurt.

36:05

I'm

36:06

gonna get rid of you.

36:09

Then he called his mom and told her to get

36:11

money into his account as fast as possible.

36:14

Scott, you're just making things worse

36:16

for yourself, his mom said. but

36:18

Scott didn't wanna hear it.

36:20

Shut up. He snacked at her.

36:23

The

36:23

investigators, of course, were listening

36:25

in on this call, and it worried them.

36:28

Scott sounded unhinged and dangerous.

36:31

The guy clearly had no plan here beyond

36:33

driving around and burning through a fast

36:35

dwindling supply of cash. As

36:37

he got more stressed and more desperate, the

36:39

likelihood of this case ending in blood was

36:41

growing fast.

36:44

On Monday, December fourth, it had been

36:46

seven days since the adoption.

36:48

As you might know, in kidnapping cases,

36:51

the chances of survival go down pretty

36:53

damn fast after the first few days.

36:56

Karen thought that if she wasn't rescued that

36:58

day, Scott would kill her. He

37:01

wasn't showing any of his old twisted

37:03

affection anymore. Karen

37:05

thought that now he just wanted to use her to

37:07

get some more money and that once he

37:09

did, it would be over for her.

37:12

Scott was getting careless. He called

37:14

his mom again to hurry up with the bank details

37:16

and he used his own cell phone. This

37:19

told the investigators that he and Karen

37:21

were in central Mississippi. so

37:23

they alerted local law enforcement to be

37:25

on the lookout for the Jeep.

37:27

By now, the FBI had full access to Scott's

37:29

bank account, and they also had cooperation of

37:31

his mom who I guess was trying to avoid

37:33

the worst outcome for both Scott and Karen.

37:36

So

37:36

they put hundred twenty five dollars into the account

37:39

and had Scott's mom call and tell him about

37:41

it. Scott went

37:43

straight to an ATM and took out the cash,

37:45

and that campers was

37:48

it. The

37:50

FBI had been flagged as soon as he

37:52

used the card, and

37:53

now they knew where he was.

37:56

Scott left the ATM with his cash, clenched

37:58

in his hand, and

37:59

drove off.

38:01

Police and FBI agents

38:02

were swarming the roads all around.

38:06

Close by the small town of Leland, the car

38:08

passed Scott's Jeep going the other way.

38:10

Scott noticed. That's

38:13

a policeman he said.

38:16

Karen didn't know what he was talking about, but

38:18

if he was wrong about everything else in his life,

38:20

Scott was mostly right about this.

38:22

And

38:24

if anyone from the FBI is listening,

38:26

look,

38:27

I know you guys love your Dark

38:29

sedans. and just

38:31

saying that if you put your agents

38:34

in those

38:34

cute little VW bugs with the eyelashes

38:36

on the lights, they probably wouldn't get made quite

38:38

so easily.

38:40

little free advice from True Crime Camp Fire.

38:42

A little

38:43

ladybug dots, one of the red ones.

38:48

Nobody's gonna think that's an FBI agent

38:50

in there right now. Mm-mm. The

38:53

driver of the other car was special agent

38:55

Anne Lehigh, and she knew she was on the

38:57

lookout for a black Jeep. It was hard

38:59

to miss this one. There were no other cars on the

39:02

road. Agent Lehigh made a u-turn

39:04

and called her backup as she closed in on the

39:06

jeep. She pulled up alongside and

39:08

looked over at the occupants. Both

39:10

of them were staring rigidly ahead,

39:12

but agent Lehi could tell that Karen was

39:14

terrified. She was sure this

39:17

was the kidnapper and his victim. Soon

39:19

after that, several cars from the local Sheriff's

39:22

Office blazed onto the scene, lights flashing,

39:24

and closed in on Scott from behind. They

39:27

thought he'd pull over. But instead,

39:29

he floored it. The jeep jerking forward

39:31

at top speed was Scott screaming and

39:33

swerving all over the road and the police following

39:35

right on his tail. Karen

39:37

was screaming too thinking for what must have been

39:40

the thousandth time that week that she was about

39:42

to die, that Scott was gonna fly off the

39:44

road and wreck. either on purpose or because

39:46

he lost control of the Jeep. He

39:48

flew through Leland at over a hundred miles

39:51

an hour, but after that, the police cars

39:53

managed to surround him. boxing him in

39:55

and slowly decreasing

39:56

their speed. So Scott

39:57

was forced to slow down too and he's screaming,

39:59

gimme a minute, gimme a minute.

40:02

Okay. Sure. No problem.

40:05

Like like he's taking a little

40:07

too long at the cash register trying to put his

40:09

card away. and not holding an abducted

40:11

woman in his car. Fuck on Scott.

40:13

Yeah. They're not gonna give you a minute dipshit.

40:17

Eventually,

40:17

the deputies brought Scott's

40:19

Jeep

40:19

to stop.

40:20

Gun's drawn. They pulled open his door and

40:23

shoved him down onto the asphalt. deputy

40:25

helped Karen who, of course, was trembling

40:27

and crying out of the jeep. And

40:29

she wrapped your arms around him and asked, do

40:31

you have a gun? Of course, he said yes. And

40:33

she said, I'm never letting you go. Bless

40:35

her art. It's the first time she

40:37

felt safe in a week.

40:39

A little while later, police helped her call her

40:42

family to let them know she was finally safe

40:44

in

40:44

coming home.

40:46

As for a twat freeman, the man who had

40:48

always bullied and threatened his way into getting

40:50

whatever he wanted, he was charged with

40:52

four felonies, the big one being kidnapping

40:55

with the weapon. A year after his

40:57

arrest, he was sentenced to life

40:58

in prison.

41:01

As

41:01

she later told investigation discovery,

41:03

It took a long time for Karen Kumer

41:05

to come to terms with what Scott Freeman put her

41:07

through, a long time for her to

41:09

stop thinking about those seven days in hell.

41:12

She needed anti anxiety meds and therapy,

41:15

had nightmares and flashbacks. But

41:17

she is, as I think we've already shown,

41:19

a true warrior, and she's worked

41:21

really hard to make her experience mean something.

41:24

Her advice for people suffering from domestic

41:27

abuse is that there are more avenues of help

41:29

and support than you might be aware of. and

41:31

you should never feel nervous or ashamed

41:32

about seeking them out.

41:34

And as somebody who lived through a

41:36

relationship with guy a lot like Scott

41:39

I was in college, I could not agree more

41:41

with that. Listening to Karen's

41:43

story in her own words on the show escaped,

41:45

I was just stunned again and again

41:48

by how familiar it sounded. Not

41:50

the abduction. Thank god, my ex

41:52

never went that far, although we did hold gun to my

41:54

head a couple of times and threatened kill us both,

41:56

but everything beforehand for

41:59

sure. I mean, the

41:59

guy even tried to blackmail me the way Scott

42:02

did with Karen. And for

42:04

a really long time, I was so afraid to talk

42:06

about it because I felt like I'd let this

42:08

ridiculous man treat me this way

42:11

and I felt like it devalued me somehow,

42:13

like made me damaged goods. I

42:15

was ashamed of myself for letting myself

42:17

be treated that way. But what I've realized in the

42:19

years since then is it's not

42:21

my shame to bear. It's his. And

42:24

then people like him, they count

42:26

on our shame. They count on us being too scared

42:29

or too embarrassed to reach out for help. Mhmm.

42:32

So campers, if you're in an abusive

42:34

situation, don't fall for that.

42:36

It's not our shame. It's theirs. and

42:39

there's a whole different life out there for you.

42:42

Karen is living proof of that.

42:44

And

42:44

so am I?

42:48

So that was a wild one. Right?campers?

42:50

You know, we'll have another one for you next week.

42:52

But for now, lock your doors, light your lights,

42:54

and stay safe. until we get together again around

42:56

the True Crime Camp Fire. We also

42:58

want send a grateful shout out to a few of our

43:00

lovely patrons. Thank you so much

43:02

to Kirsty, Liz, Hilary,

43:05

Alicia, woman interrupted, awesome

43:07

name, and Tracy. We appreciate y'all

43:09

to the moon and back. And if you're not yet

43:11

a patron, you are missing out. Patrons

43:14

of our show get every episode ad free

43:16

at least a day early, sometimes even two,

43:18

plus an extra episode a month. And

43:20

once you hit the five dollar and up categories, you get

43:22

even more cool stuff. A free sticker

43:24

at five dollars, a ratty namble pin

43:26

while supplies last at ten. Virtual

43:28

events with Katie and me, and we're always looking

43:31

for new stuff to do for you. So if you can,

43:33

come join us at patreon dot com slash

43:35

true crime Camp Fire. And for great

43:37

TCC merch, visit the true crime Camp

43:39

Firestore

43:39

at spreadshirt dot com.