0:04

Hi,

0:04

everyone. This is Jillian with Court Junkie.

0:07

Court Junkie is a true crime podcast that

0:09

covers court cases and criminal trials

0:11

using audio clips and interviews with people

0:14

close to the cases. Court junkie

0:16

is available on Apple Podcasts and

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0:57

Hello,

0:57

everyone, and welcome to episode two

0:59

ninety three of the True Crime All the Time

1:01

Unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson,

1:04

and with me as always, is my partner in True

1:06

Crime. Mike Gibson, give me how are

1:08

you? Hey, man. I'm doing good. How about yourself? doing

1:10

real well. I've had a pretty good week. Good.

1:12

I will say I'm looking forward to our

1:14

upcoming vacation you know,

1:16

we will not be putting out an episode

1:20

on Christmas, so that's a week

1:22

off for us and we deserve one. We haven't

1:24

had one in in a while. And I'm excited

1:26

because when you're not around, I'm gonna be

1:28

coming over here and throwing CAGRs

1:31

and and doing whatever. Party.

1:33

There's definitely something happening. Let's

1:36

go ahead and give our shout outs. For

1:38

Patreon, we had Jeff Foster. Hey,

1:40

Jeff. Skyler Elliott. What's going on,

1:42

Skyler? Alicia w. I appreciate

1:44

that. W. Jordan Kreiner. Hey, Jordan.

1:46

Jennifer Chapel. Hey. Thank you, Jennifer.

1:49

Catherine Mohawk. Was that Mohawk?

1:51

Jessica Machiche. Jessica

1:54

m. And I'm probably not pronouncing it right,

1:56

but it's really fun to say that way. So

1:59

I I hope I hope I am. Yeah.

2:02

Ashley -- Yes. -- Chris

2:04

Wisec like that too. Why,

2:06

Zach? Ralph, Castaneda. What's

2:09

going on, Castaneda? James

2:11

Cambrin jumped out at our high school. Appreciate

2:13

that, Cambrin. Adam Watson. Hey, Adam.

2:15

Rose Rodriguez. Hey, Rodriguez.

2:17

Andrea Zabel. This

2:20

is Zabel. Carol Babin.

2:22

Hey, Babin. Kayleigh Atkinson. Oh,

2:25

thank you CapEx. It's in Marie

2:27

Claude Haubert. That

2:29

just sounds like a like very

2:31

French name. Yeah. I and

2:33

I'm probably not pronouncing it.

2:35

That one correctly. Yeah. Rita jumped

2:37

out at her highest level. Oh, you're awesome Rita.

2:39

Elizabeth Kreit. Hey, Elizabeth. Samantha

2:42

Butcher. What's going on, Samantha? And last

2:44

but not least, Brooklyn Jennings.

2:46

There it is Brooklyn. And then if we go back into

2:48

the vault, This

2:50

week, we selected our good friend, Lottie.

2:54

Love Lottie. She's been with us forever.

2:56

She sent in a bunch of things in the mailbox.

2:59

She traveled to crime con to

3:01

see us. So thank you, Lottie,

3:03

for everything. We had some great donations

3:06

on PayPal from Emily Zuk

3:08

and David Rhodes. Hey, thanks. Is Zuk

3:10

and Rhodes? Yeah. Thanks to everyone who supports

3:12

the show. Right now, on

3:14

True Crime all the time, we have an episode

3:16

out on Christopher Foster.

3:19

He was a British millionaire who

3:22

fell some financial troubles.

3:25

And as a result of all that decided

3:28

that his best option was to

3:30

murder his wife and daughter. It's

3:33

a it's a tough episode.

3:35

It's a mind boggling episode. You

3:38

just can't understand how someone

3:40

can make that decision. Very

3:42

selfish guy. Yeah. Very. Alright,

3:45

buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode true

3:47

crime all the time unsolved. I'm ready.

3:49

We are talking about the Bain

3:51

Family Murders. In

3:53

mid nineteen ninety four, the

3:55

bodies of married couple, Robin

3:57

and Margaret Bain, and

3:59

three of their

3:59

four children were

4:01

discovered in their home in

4:03

the city of Dun Eaton on

4:05

the south island of New Zealand.

4:07

They had all been shot to death.

4:09

The only person to survive was

4:12

the family's oldest son David

4:14

who police quickly focused

4:16

on as one of the main suspects

4:19

The twenty two year old told police

4:21

he wasn't home when the murders occurred.

4:24

David who arrived home defined

4:26

his entire family sling. Was

4:28

adamant, his father

4:30

was the killer, claiming Robin

4:33

had gone down the family and then

4:35

taken his own life. This is a pretty

4:38

big case in New Zealand.

4:40

Yeah. Pretty infamous case. Yeah.

4:42

Fifty eight year old school principal

4:45

Robin Bay. Lived in a two story

4:47

home on every street in

4:49

the suburbs of Dun Eaton

4:51

with his fifty year old wife of twenty

4:53

five years. Margaret, The couple

4:55

had four children, twenty two year

4:57

old David, two daughters,

5:00

nineteen year old, Arwa,

5:03

an eighteen year old Lanier,

5:05

and then their youngest son, fourteen

5:08

year old, Stephen. David

5:10

studied music at Atago,

5:13

University and worked part time

5:15

delivering the Atago Daily

5:17

Times newspaper. Ottawa

5:20

was studying to be a teacher and

5:22

Steven was still attending high school. Laniacs

5:24

was the only child who didn't live

5:26

at home but she was about ready

5:29

to start a telemarketing job.

5:31

So,

5:31

yeah, I just wanna take a minute and

5:34

talk about on

5:36

paper, this banged

5:38

family. Mom and dad married

5:41

for twenty five years. Dad's

5:44

Principal. Four kids seem

5:47

like they're doing well. Right? They've got

5:49

direction. They're going to school. They're doing this

5:51

or doing that. I sometimes think,

5:53

you know, as we do the

5:55

research and we go through these episodes,

5:58

looking from the outside in,

6:00

looking on paper versus

6:02

what's really going on in a

6:04

family is oftentimes so

6:08

much different we talked

6:10

about how do you really

6:12

know? What someone

6:14

or even a family is like

6:16

behind closed doors? Yeah. You're

6:18

right. Because on the surface here, they look like a

6:20

normal typical family. I was gonna

6:22

say all American, but we're in New Zealand. Yeah. So

6:25

All New Zealand family. Yeah.

6:27

On the morning of June twentieth

6:30

nineteen ninety four, David woke

6:32

to do his regular paper route.

6:34

He left the house at about five

6:36

forty five AM. SOM TIME

6:38

AFTER THIS IT'S THOUGHT THAT

6:40

THE KILLER ENTERED THE HOME.

6:42

THEY WENT INTO DAVID'S ROOM AND

6:44

TOOK A twenty two CALIBER WINCHESTER

6:47

semi automatic rifle with a

6:49

silencer attached out of his wardrobe

6:52

as well as some ammunition. The

6:54

killer had accessed the spare

6:56

key. To the firearms trigger

6:58

locked, which was usually kept in

7:00

a jar on David's desk. One

7:02

by one, each member of the Bain

7:04

family was shot and killed. To

7:06

this day, investigators don't know

7:09

in what order the five

7:11

victims lost their lives, but

7:13

David told police that when

7:15

he returned to the home, around

7:17

six forty AM, he went to his

7:19

room where he took off his

7:21

shoes and his walkman, He

7:24

then went downstairs to the

7:26

combined bathroom laundry

7:28

where the washing machine was.

7:31

He washed some clothes. Belonging

7:33

to several family members, including

7:35

the red sweatshirt he'd worn

7:37

on his newspaper

7:40

delivery route. He then washed

7:42

the newsprint off his hands. When

7:44

he went back upstairs, he

7:46

went to his mother, Margaret's bedroom,

7:49

where he found her dead in

7:51

bed. He went to the living room

7:53

and that's where he found his dad

7:55

Robin's body. Around 709

7:58

David called the emergency number

8:00

extremely distressed crying

8:02

and saying they're all

8:05

dead. You know, when you think about

8:07

this, you know, here's a kid

8:09

that got up who's gonna

8:11

tackle his normal morning

8:13

job of getting the paper out. Never expected

8:15

to come home to something like this. Who

8:18

would? Yeah. Nobody does. The

8:20

shock that had to ensue. After

8:22

seeing all this. According to

8:24

the New Zealand Herald, the police

8:26

and ambulance personnel who

8:28

arrived shortly after seven twenty

8:30

AM. Later testified that

8:33

David didn't respond to request to

8:35

open the front door, a police

8:37

officer who smashed a glass

8:39

panel. In the front door to gain

8:41

entry found David Huddled on the

8:43

floor against the wall in his

8:45

bedroom shaking in the fetal

8:47

position. Blood was on

8:49

his t shirt and the

8:51

souls of his white socks. He had

8:53

a bruise on his head, a deep

8:55

scratch on his knee, and

8:57

scratches on his torso. David

8:59

was said to be so distraught. He

9:02

was crying hysterically saying

9:04

that black hands were coming

9:06

to get him. As more first

9:09

responders arrived, David seemed to

9:11

calm down. But his

9:13

behavior was described as odd.

9:15

According to court documents, he

9:17

started talking about his interest

9:19

in singing. Returning to

9:21

college and asked for

9:23

his glasses. First responders

9:26

were confronted by the crime

9:28

scene, which was

9:30

gruesome. Right? This family had

9:32

been executed, but

9:34

also the state of

9:36

the home It was said

9:38

to have been cluttered. It

9:40

was run down in an

9:42

extreme state of disrepair

9:45

and borderline filth. It was

9:47

described as nasty. I'm sure as a

9:49

first responder walking into that,

9:51

dealing with not only the

9:53

grossiveness, then having

9:55

that to work around too is

9:57

not your normal day. According

9:59

to first responders, the smell

10:01

inside the home was so bad.

10:03

Police officers had to wear masks

10:06

to search the property and

10:08

gather evidence, clothes,

10:10

personal effects, furniture, and

10:12

household objects. We're

10:14

carelessly scattered about the home

10:16

and stacked high in piles.

10:18

I mean, the first thing that's

10:20

coming to mind. Now, obviously, we have a

10:22

gruesome crime scene. Sure. But I'm

10:24

just talking about the state of the home.

10:26

I mean, you know, my daughter

10:28

watches that show hoarders. That's what I

10:30

was thinking in my head. And so that yeah.

10:32

That that's what's kind of, you know, hitting

10:34

me. It was sad that the kitchen was

10:36

filthy. Dirty dishes,

10:39

overflowed and sink. And

10:41

it appeared as though it had not been

10:43

clean for a very long time. Now I'm having

10:45

flashbacks of my brother living

10:47

in his, like, not a frat house,

10:49

but a house with all his buddies -- Oh. --

10:52

college. You know, where dishes were

10:54

stacked in the sink. There was dishes in

10:56

this the bathtub. I'm thinking,

10:58

what are you guys doing? Well, you

11:00

got a bunch of college kids who don't

11:02

wanna clean. Yeah. That's what you have.

11:04

Steven's bedroom was in

11:06

severe disarray and looked

11:08

like he had been involved in

11:10

a struggle with his killer. David's

11:13

bedroom was also said to

11:15

have been in severe disarray. Officers

11:17

found a pair of broken glasses

11:19

on a chair in the room. The

11:21

right lens was intact, but the

11:23

left was missing. On the

11:25

floor was a key to the trigger

11:27

lock for the rifle. There

11:29

was a small camper on the

11:31

property and it was said to be

11:33

an similar state of

11:35

disarray. When police first

11:37

entered this camper, they

11:40

noticed the clock radio playing. As if

11:42

it had been set as the

11:44

alarm, but had never been turned

11:46

off. The alarm was set for six

11:48

thirty two AM. There were twenty

11:50

spent cartridges on the floor,

11:52

which were later found to have been

11:54

fired from the twenty two rifle.

11:56

That's kinda strange to

11:58

find bent cartridges

11:59

inside the small camper.

12:01

Well, when we know that

12:04

the individuals were killed in the home.

12:06

Yeah. Yeah. It's very strange.

12:08

Now, do we know that these

12:10

twenty cartridges are the same

12:12

ones that contain the bullets

12:14

that killed these individuals? No. They

12:16

could have been there from something else,

12:18

but as police found the

12:20

victims, they learned that they had all

12:22

been shot. Laniette was

12:24

in bed, she'd been shot in

12:26

the head three times, once in the

12:28

cheek, once above her ear,

12:30

and once to the top of

12:32

her head. Margaret was also in

12:34

bed covered up. She'd been

12:36

shot in the forehead. Our

12:38

raw was lying on her bedroom

12:40

floor. Dead from a single bullet

12:42

to her forehead. Fourteen year

12:44

old Stephen had violently

12:46

fought for his life against

12:48

his attacker According to

12:50

journalist Martin Van Bannon,

12:53

blood was smeared all over

12:55

Stephen's head, face, arms,

12:57

as well as his bedsheet.

12:59

The killer had initially strangled

13:02

Steven with a t shirt, that

13:04

the teenager had been wearing the night

13:06

before. And then he was eventually

13:08

murdered by being shot in the

13:10

head three times at close

13:12

range, and his body was left

13:14

on the floor. So knowing

13:16

that Steven had some scratches

13:19

and other wounds that made

13:21

it appear like he bought

13:23

this killer. You would think that the

13:26

killer himself might have some injuries.

13:28

Yeah. You would think so if it

13:30

was a violent struggle as

13:32

it was thought to have

13:34

been. Robin's body was

13:36

lying on the floor of the living room.

13:39

Near him was David's Rifle,

13:41

which contained three

13:43

live rounds. On the floor near

13:45

Robin's hand was a defective magazine

13:48

for the gun. Robin was

13:50

fully dressed and had been shot in the

13:52

head with the weapon either in

13:54

contact with or very close

13:56

to his left temple. He was still

13:58

warm. The bodies of the victims

14:01

also were somewhat warm,

14:03

but not as warm as Robbins,

14:05

indicating he had been the last to

14:07

die most likely within

14:10

you

14:10

know, sixty

14:11

to ninety minutes of

14:13

first responders getting there. There

14:15

was no sign of gunpowder on his

14:18

hands But there were faint

14:20

traces of blood. So could you make an

14:22

argument based on that that

14:24

maybe it was a murder suicide?

14:26

As David suggested?

14:28

Well, I think

14:29

at the very least you have to look into

14:32

it. Now, when they say there

14:34

was no sign of gunpowder, I

14:36

don't find that out of the ordinary.

14:38

You know, I've said it before. I

14:40

I go to the range to

14:42

shoot. I don't look down

14:45

and and see gunpowder on

14:47

my hands. Now, if you did

14:49

a gun shot

14:51

residue test, that's different.

14:53

That would pick up traces of

14:55

it that you most

14:57

likely would not see with the naked

15:00

eye. So it's not to be

15:02

unexpected that you would not see

15:04

any based on that. Not based on

15:06

my experience -- Yeah. --

15:08

because I just don't I never see

15:10

gunpowder on my hands.

15:12

Now, I always wipe my

15:14

hands down afterwards because I know there's

15:16

something on there. Right? But

15:18

it's not visible to your eye. Isn't I

15:20

mean, no. I've shot guns before too, and

15:22

I've never seen, oh, look at

15:24

that powder mark on me, after

15:26

slaughtering the family. Please

15:28

theorize that the killer

15:30

walked through the house wearing bloody

15:32

clothes before washing up

15:34

in the bathroom. Blood

15:36

stains were found on the sink, the

15:38

washing machine, a packet of

15:40

washing powder, and

15:42

blood smears were left on light

15:44

switches and door jams

15:46

throughout the home. Someone had put

15:48

on a wash containing a

15:50

mixture of the family's clothes

15:52

as well as blood stained items,

15:55

including a heavily stained

15:57

green sweater, as

15:58

police made their way through

15:59

the home. They noted the

16:02

family computer situated

16:04

behind some curtains and an alcove

16:06

in the living room was switched

16:08

on. A word processing

16:10

document was opened on the screen,

16:12

which said, sorry, you

16:14

are the only one who deserved

16:16

to stay. On a table in the hallway,

16:19

sat the local newspaper. It was

16:21

untouched, but had been

16:23

clearly brought inside by

16:25

someone that morning. To see that

16:27

upon award processor, sorry,

16:29

you are the only one who deserved to

16:31

stay. Could that have been something

16:33

that Robin typed

16:35

out for David before

16:37

he took his own life

16:39

after

16:39

killing

16:40

everybody else. Well, the only one

16:43

who deserved to stay has

16:45

to point to David. Right? Because

16:47

everyone else was killed.

16:49

Right. Or

16:50

died? Or

16:51

could David type it out to make

16:53

it look like? Or could somebody else

16:56

type it out? That's true too. To make it

16:58

look as though either it

17:00

was a murder suicide or

17:02

David had something to do with it. Yeah.

17:04

Good point. And obviously, we're gonna talk

17:06

about David, you

17:07

know,

17:08

here more because according

17:11

to the press newspaper, David was initially

17:13

treated as a victim. Of

17:15

what was suspected to be as

17:17

a tragic, pretty straightforward

17:20

case of murder

17:22

suicide. He told police that the

17:24

night before the murders was a fairly

17:26

typical family evening.

17:28

Laniette had stayed over at the house

17:30

to attend a family meeting The

17:33

family watched TV, and

17:35

David went to bed around eight

17:37

fifty PM. Around eleven

17:39

thirty, he said he heard a car

17:41

drive off. He stated he woke

17:43

up about five thirty

17:45

AM, dosed back asleep

17:47

for around ten minutes until he had to

17:49

get up to go on his paper

17:51

route. He got dressed, putting on his

17:53

running clothes, which consisted

17:55

of socks, bike

17:57

pants, black rugby shorts,

17:59

The

17:59

t

17:59

shirt he was already wearing in a

18:02

red sweatshirt. David

18:03

said he ran most of

18:05

his

18:05

paper route. When

18:06

he reached the bottom of every street

18:09

towards the end of the route, he said

18:11

he looked at his watch, which showed the

18:13

time as six twenty two

18:15

AM. HE CLAIMED THAT AT six forty. HE WENT PASSED

18:17

NEARBY HE STREET ON HIS WAY

18:19

BACK TO THE FAMILY HOME. HE

18:22

EXPECTED ROBIN TO BE AWAY. By

18:24

that point. Because his father's routine

18:27

was to, you know, get up

18:29

between six forty and seven

18:31

ten AM, and

18:33

go into the living room to

18:35

pray. David said it took

18:37

approximately two or three minutes to walk up to

18:39

the house from the street as

18:41

it was set back from the

18:43

roof. David mentioned his

18:45

father was familiar with firearms

18:47

and had previously helped

18:49

him cite his rifle. So we're

18:51

getting a little bit of time line from David at what

18:53

happened in the morning when he left

18:55

the home, coming back to the home, Yeah. I

18:57

mean,

18:57

everything seems fairly

18:59

straightforward. The one

19:01

thing that did jump out of me

19:04

was Lanyette staying over at the

19:06

house for a family meeting.

19:08

I get it families, have meetings,

19:10

how long did it last?

19:13

Because David was in bed by eight

19:15

fifty. Yeah. Did she decide she

19:17

just didn't wanna go home? That

19:19

there really wasn't much more in the research

19:21

about it. Yeah. Or was the meeting the

19:23

next day? She wanted to stay? Yeah. I don't know.

19:25

Morning meeting. I don't know. That did kinda

19:27

jump out at me a little bit. True

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friends without the r. Best

21:48

fiends. According to the New

21:50

Zealand herald dot com, David

21:52

noticed his mother's bedroom light

21:54

was on upon entering

21:57

the house. The door to the living room was

21:59

closed. So

21:59

he went into his room, which was

22:02

dark and cold. He said he didn't

22:04

turn on the light.

22:05

David took off his shoes,

22:08

hung up the newspaper bag on the

22:10

hook behind the door, and he

22:12

said he put his walkman on

22:14

the bed before going

22:16

downstairs where he switched on the kitchen

22:18

and bathroom lights. In

22:20

the bathroom, he put some

22:22

colored clothing. And couple of sweaters

22:24

in the washing machine.

22:26

David explained it was usual for

22:27

him to do the wash in

22:30

the morning and hanging on the line

22:32

before heading off the couch. He

22:34

said he recalled washing

22:36

a green sweater. Belonging to

22:40

Arwa, a black turtleneck, a

22:42

couple of pairs of socks, a

22:44

red sweatshirt, a green

22:46

striped business shirt of Robbins,

22:48

a pair of dark trousers, and two

22:50

towels. He told police

22:52

The clothes belonged to numerous family

22:55

members, but he couldn't tell what

22:57

belonged to who as he didn't

22:59

have his glasses on.

23:01

David stated he usually wore glasses

23:03

for shortsightedness, but they were

23:05

broken. And in the process of

23:07

being repaired at the optometrist,

23:11

He remarked he didn't need or use anyone

23:13

else's glasses over the weekend

23:15

and couldn't say how his mother's

23:18

glasses came to be in his

23:20

room. After putting the clothes in the machine, he said he washed

23:22

his hands, which were covered in

23:25

newsprint from his paper Alright.

23:27

So nothing out of the ordinary. The

23:30

kids coming back, you know, getting

23:32

out of his running clothes,

23:34

doing some laundry.

23:36

I mean, not

23:37

every kid does laundry, so that's that's kinda

23:39

strange to me. This guy is doing laundry,

23:41

but, you know, good for them. But apparently, he

23:43

did because it was a as a part

23:45

of his routine. Eyeglass thing's a

23:48

little strange. You know, if he doesn't

23:50

have his eyeglasses, but yet

23:52

they find his mom's eyeglasses

23:54

in his room, you know.

23:56

I think that's gonna be something that probably comes up

23:58

throughout the investigation. Well, obviously, we're

24:00

gonna talk about the green sweater too

24:02

and that too. So there are

24:05

some things here that are going

24:07

to be looked at. But

24:08

as far as

24:10

the routine and kind of

24:12

what he did, it's seems

24:14

fairly normal at least for

24:16

him. Back upstairs in his bedroom,

24:18

he switched on the light. On the floor

24:20

of his room, he saw bullets. And

24:23

the trigger locked to his rifle.

24:25

David said he got scared and

24:27

he opened his wardrobe to find

24:29

the rifle missing. He went to check on

24:31

his mom Margaret. She didn't sleep

24:33

in the same room as Robin, but in a

24:35

room that was separated from the

24:38

hallway why occur by

24:40

a curtain. David pulled the curtain back and

24:42

called out to his mother. There was no

24:44

response. He went to the side of

24:46

her bed where he saw her head

24:48

and the side of her face covered him

24:50

blood. At that moment, the shock that

24:52

probably went through him to see your

24:54

mom laying like that. Yeah.

24:56

The victim of a violent crime.

24:58

Yeah. III can't imagine that.

25:00

So he ran out calling for

25:02

his dad, Robin. And he went into

25:04

the living area.

25:06

Still dark.

25:07

David saw his father's body with

25:09

blood on his head. He ran back

25:11

to his room where he called emergency services.

25:14

David said when he made the call, he

25:16

remembered hearing banging and loud

25:19

noises but didn't remember anything

25:21

else until he saw a paramedic

25:23

entering his room. The autopsy

25:26

has revealed some valuable

25:28

evidence. Green

25:30

fibers consistent with the blood

25:32

stained sweater, David washed in

25:34

the washing machine, were found

25:36

under Steven's fingernails. And he'd

25:39

sustained abrasions to his

25:41

back. Robin had a full

25:43

bladder consistent with an amount of

25:45

urine accumulating overnight.

25:48

Lani Ed had a large amount of fluid in

25:50

her lungs, resulting from

25:53

pulmonary edema. This

25:55

indicated she had survived for

25:57

some time. After initially being shot

25:59

in the cheek. During

26:00

David's police interviews, it

26:02

emerged that even though the bains had

26:04

all been living together,

26:06

with the exception of Lani Ed,

26:09

it wasn't a case of a happy

26:11

family. Five

26:11

years after Robin and

26:14

Margaret married, took

26:15

two year old David and moved

26:17

to papa, New Guinea. In

26:19

the Southwest Pacific Ocean,

26:21

just north of Australia, where

26:23

Margaret gave birth to their three other

26:26

children. David told

26:26

police Margaret was intending

26:29

to study music. Until

26:31

Robin decided for the couple to relocate.

26:34

During this time, Robin worked

26:36

as

26:36

a Presbyterian Missionary and

26:39

Teacher Margaret,

26:41

who had also trained as a teacher,

26:43

homeschooled the children, on

26:45

and off until the family returned to

26:47

New Zealand in nineteen eighty eight.

26:49

Robin

26:50

and Margaret were said to be estranged,

26:52

but like

26:53

many couples who do

26:55

so for, you know, a host of

26:57

reasons. They still live together under the

26:59

However, during the week, Robin

27:02

lived at the schoolhouse where he was

27:04

a principal. It

27:05

was about an hour away. From

27:07

the Bain home. Lanyette

27:09

had also lived in the schoolhouse

27:11

with Robin for a time

27:13

on the weekends and sometimes on

27:16

Monday night. Robin would turn to Dun

27:18

Eaton where he stayed in the

27:20

camper. Margaret had lived in the

27:22

camper herself at one point in

27:24

nineteen ninety. But

27:26

had since moved into the main

27:28

residence. According to New

27:29

Zealand, Harold dot

27:31

com, David

27:32

told police whenever his parents

27:35

were together, communication was

27:37

always brief, and they were

27:39

always finding fault with each

27:41

other. As

27:41

David continued to talk, it

27:43

became clear from his accounts that the

27:46

brains were somewhat dysfunctional and

27:48

numerous complex issues

27:50

were at play. David revealed his

27:53

mom became resentful of his

27:55

dad whom he claimed, expected

27:57

his mom to do one

27:59

hundred percent

27:59

of the domestic labor essentially

28:02

treating her as hired help

28:04

instead

28:04

of a wife. Maybe this might have

28:07

been part of the reason they were as

28:09

strange. Well, I know

28:10

from being married for

28:12

twenty six years that I'd

28:14

be

28:14

a strange too if I

28:16

treated my wife as

28:18

hired

28:18

help. Yeah. That wouldn't go over very

28:20

well. No. She would pack

28:21

up and leave me in a

28:24

heartbeat. The more David

28:25

spoke, it was very

28:27

clear. To police that, you

28:29

know, he had a fractured relationship

28:31

with his father since his mom

28:33

didn't work outside the home,

28:35

She kept unusual hours. She'd stay

28:38

up very late watching TV and

28:40

then sleep in until nine

28:42

or ten despite having a

28:44

young teenage son who needed to get off

28:46

to school. David failed his

28:48

first year of college in

28:50

nineteen ninety so he left school

28:52

and he moved back home for the

28:54

next two years. It was reported

28:56

that Margaret had always had a strong

28:58

faith and had been devoutly

29:00

religious. But in the early nineteen

29:02

nineties. She

29:03

started to move away from

29:05

the traditional church in

29:07

started putting a lot of significance

29:10

on occult symbols

29:13

and developed what many

29:15

called some procure ideas

29:17

and beliefs. I'm sure it threw the family off

29:19

with her changing her

29:22

religious beliefs. Well, and I

29:24

think the other thing was people who knew

29:26

her reported that she seemed to

29:28

become disconnected from

29:30

reality She had a dominant

29:32

personality in this

29:34

growing obsession with new age

29:37

spiritualism. People

29:39

said made her difficult to be

29:41

around. You know what? And sometimes it it

29:43

is difficult to be around people that have that

29:45

type of personality when they're really

29:47

pushing something they truly believe in. Like

29:49

all those years you try to get me to sell Amway.

29:51

And

29:51

there was that one time I tried to get

29:54

you to join that call and you just wouldn't have

29:56

none of it. No, man.

29:58

You said to say no. It was

29:59

a good it

29:59

turned out to be a good thing because that really

30:02

went down a bad road. According to New Zealand

30:04

herald dot com, the

30:06

detectives asked David

30:08

whether there had been any recent

30:10

arguments in the family, especially specially

30:13

involving

30:13

Robin. David

30:14

said he'd argued with his father

30:17

the night before the murders about

30:19

a chainsaw. David

30:21

wanted to use it around the

30:23

home, but Robin wanted to take it with

30:25

him to the school when he left for the

30:27

week. It was reported that

30:29

Robin and Margaret also had a

30:31

heated exchange two days

30:33

before the murders about

30:35

installing new gutters. And

30:37

it came out that, you know, the

30:39

family dynamics were

30:41

very complex. David

30:43

told police he felt Robin

30:45

favored Lanier. He

30:47

also claimed that

30:49

Steven felt depressed and

30:51

angry by Robbins treatment.

30:53

David explained that at one point,

30:55

Margaret had told Robin she wanted him to

30:57

leave, but she hadn't sought any

30:59

legal advice about getting divorced.

31:03

She had plans to demolish the existing

31:05

home and build a new one in its

31:07

place. David stated that he was very close

31:09

to his mother. And he and our

31:12

robot both supported her

31:14

unconditionally. David wasn't sure

31:17

how Stephen fell, but said

31:19

His brother appeared to favor their mother at one

31:22

stage, but he said Laniacs was

31:24

definitely in their father's corner.

31:26

Definitely some interesting family dynamics there.

31:29

Yeah. The question I would ask

31:31

is, are they out of the

31:33

ordinary though? Is it natural

31:35

for a child to favor one

31:37

parent over the other? I would say,

31:39

yeah,

31:39

yeah probably. I

31:40

know both my kids favor me.

31:43

You

31:43

you you hope.

31:45

But I I think it's

31:47

natural

31:47

for kids to get a long better

31:50

with mom or with

31:52

that. Sure. Yeah. And it may

31:54

not be all the kids. Some kids

31:56

might prefer mom. Some kids in the

31:58

same family might prefer dad.

32:00

It just kinda goes that way. I mean, just looking

32:01

at your family, I can tell how the

32:03

family dynamics work. Yeah. My

32:05

youngest takes after me. We

32:07

we have have kind of the same sense of humor. We

32:10

get along very well. I get along great

32:12

with my older daughter, but

32:14

she's definitely more like my wife.

32:16

So they have a a different type of

32:19

bond. Even

32:19

your dogs. Yeah. You

32:20

can see it in the dogs. Yeah. For

32:23

sure. Those who knew the family

32:25

told the New Zealand Herald, that Robin

32:27

and David both enjoyed spending quality

32:29

time together, they're saying in

32:31

the city's choir, Margaret's

32:34

sister later said she felt the

32:36

couple's relationship was getting

32:38

back to being

32:39

an amicable one. Only

32:41

the day before the murders, Robin had

32:44

accompanied both his sons to a

32:46

local swimming event. I

32:47

think the one thing you can definitely

32:50

see is that the marriage wasn't

32:53

great. I

32:53

mean, you know, Margaret's sister is

32:56

saying, okay,

32:57

it was getting back to being

33:00

amicable. That's a pretty low bar for

33:02

for

33:02

a marriage. Yeah. It really is. I mean,

33:04

that's like the the very least

33:06

you

33:06

can do. Is

33:08

be amicable. Is be amicable. Yeah.

33:11

So police interview David. Right?

33:13

They're getting the background on

33:15

the family. Forensic technicians

33:18

continued processing evidence back at

33:20

the crime scene. It was difficult

33:22

to tell. Whether the killer

33:24

switched the computer on

33:26

just before or

33:28

after David returned home. But

33:30

according to court documents, when the computer was

33:33

forensically examined, it was

33:35

found to have been switched on

33:37

sometime between six forty and

33:40

six forty six AM. The

33:41

problem was there was no real

33:44

way of knowing when the

33:46

message was typed. Which could have been

33:48

done later. Everyone in the

33:50

family had access to the

33:52

computer, but Robin and David

33:54

used it the most. Robin

33:56

had an interest in computers.

33:59

So I think, you

33:59

know, the

33:59

timing here, obviously, if this

34:02

computer is important,

34:03

you know, if it's determined that

34:06

the computer was turned on

34:08

after David said he got home.

34:11

Okay. That's going to point

34:13

in one direction. And it's

34:15

close. The timing is close

34:17

in this case. Yeah. I

34:18

mean, could

34:19

Robin have typed that message? I think it'd be

34:21

difficult because I

34:22

think if he did,

34:24

wouldn't David have

34:26

heard the gunshot?

34:28

Meaning, if he

34:29

turned on the computer after David

34:31

was already home -- Right. -- then

34:33

that would mean that

34:35

Yes. A gun was fired when

34:38

David was in the house. He would have he would have

34:40

heard it. Now, we did say there was a

34:42

silencer on twenty two. On a

34:44

twenty two, it it's not

34:46

very loud, especially on

34:48

a on a twenty two.

34:50

Basically, what you

34:52

hear is the mechanism. It doesn't really sound like

34:54

a gunshot. It sounds

34:56

more like the the sound of

34:58

the bolt

34:59

going back and forth. It's

35:01

not a wild bang. So you can

35:03

easily say that David might not even

35:05

heard the gun go off. No. Especially

35:07

if he was standing next

35:09

to the washing machine. It was

35:12

going or whatever. But,

35:14

obviously, we're getting down to the

35:16

crux of this case. Right. Right?

35:18

Timing of things. When David got home, when

35:21

certain things happened, did

35:23

he

35:23

wash a sweater that

35:25

was involved in the murder. Yeah. It

35:28

was worn while the murder

35:30

occurred. True crime all the time

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Discounts not available all situations. According

36:42

to staff dot co dot

36:44

n z,

36:46

The newspaper in the hallway was an interesting piece of evidence. It

36:49

was delivered to the house daily, placed

36:51

in the letter box,

36:54

David told police he did not bring

36:56

the newspaper inside thinking that

36:58

his father had already collected

37:00

it when he got when

37:03

he got home home. The demands of

37:05

the investigation placed immense pressure on

37:07

the resources of the Dunn

37:09

Eaton Police. According to

37:12

the press, The nature and scale of this type violent

37:14

crime was unprecedented in the

37:16

local area. David was

37:18

interviewed several times

37:20

by police. In the days

37:22

following the murders. One

37:23

thing which

37:25

struck investigators' eyes

37:27

was David's claim that

37:29

he arrived home around six

37:31

forty AM. The emergency call was made

37:33

at 709

37:36

So obviously, police wanted

37:38

to know what

37:38

David was doing in the twenty five

37:40

minutes

37:40

or so between the time

37:42

he arrived home and the time

37:44

that he called emergency services.

37:48

Well, that's a good callout. Right? Because

37:50

outside of David coming

37:52

home and removing his

37:56

running clothes, and doing

37:58

a load of laundry, which would

37:59

take up some of that time and

38:02

discovering the bodies, how much

38:04

time is left? Well, I I think it's a good

38:06

question. Could it have taken twenty five

38:08

minutes to do all of that? We

38:10

mentioned he washed his

38:12

hands. He you know, he did

38:14

some things, but

38:16

was it twenty five minutes worth of

38:18

things that he did? Does that account

38:20

for all of the time? And

38:22

I think it's kind of hard to to

38:24

say, well, it took

38:25

me, you know, five minutes

38:26

to change clothes.

38:29

It took me ten

38:30

minutes to get the laundry and all that started. Okay?

38:32

Well, that's fifteen minutes. Where's the other

38:35

ten minutes? Right. It took me three

38:38

wash my hands. Okay? We still need

38:40

seven minutes. You know what I'm saying? I think that's

38:42

very

38:43

hard to Explain

38:45

because you're not looking at your watch and timing. You know, how you quantify

38:47

that? Yeah. I think it would it would

38:49

be tough. So other than that, he yeah.

38:51

I don't think he was able

38:54

to break down the twenty five minutes. He was

38:56

also unable to explain the presence of

38:58

his bloody palm print

39:00

on the

39:02

washing machine. Nor was he

39:04

able to account for how he sustained

39:06

the bruising and scratches

39:08

beyond saying that he hadn't

39:10

been injured while out on

39:12

his paperwork. But I

39:13

think you can see what's happening

39:16

in these interviews in

39:17

the days following the murders. They're

39:20

questioning David and I think the

39:22

more they get into it,

39:24

the more they

39:24

start to think. Or question

39:26

if he had

39:28

a possible

39:30

role. In

39:30

these murders. Yeah, I think they're gonna have to lead up to that. According

39:32

to New Zealand Harold dot com,

39:35

investigators eventually asked

39:38

David If

39:38

he had killed said that he

39:40

did not. He agreed that he

39:42

had washed some of his clothes. After

39:46

arriving home. But he denied

39:48

washing any blood stained

39:50

clothing or seeing any blood

39:52

stains on the clothes he

39:54

had washed. The investigators asked David how he could

39:56

account for the blood on his t

39:58

shirt, and he couldn't. When

40:00

crime

40:00

scene technicians

40:01

applied luminol to

40:04

the carpet, six bloody footprints made by

40:06

a right foot were tracked throughout

40:08

the house. But the size of

40:10

these differed and some of the prints were

40:14

only partial. Police had by this time seized the clothing

40:16

David had been wearing, and they

40:18

found blood on the soul of one of

40:20

his David

40:22

suggested he wouldn't have worn blood stained

40:24

socks unless he'd inadvertently stood

40:26

in blood

40:27

on the floor.

40:29

So,

40:29

you know,

40:30

these bloody footprints, only

40:33

being the right foot, kind

40:35

of brings to mind.

40:38

Okay. Your

40:39

left foot is covered or not. You didn't step in blood with

40:41

the left foot, but only the right but

40:43

only the right foot. But

40:45

then when they say that they were made by different

40:48

size feet, they were different

40:50

sizes. Okay? Now we're

40:52

getting odd. It seems really

40:54

strange, you know, that you have these

40:56

different size footprints.

40:58

He's got blood on his

40:59

t shirt, but he doesn't know where it came

41:01

from. But then again, he

41:03

was kinda

41:03

working in the dark. So maybe when you picked up some

41:06

of this laundry, maybe it had blood on

41:08

it, didn't realize it transferred to

41:10

his shirt. Maybe pick

41:12

him up that laundry. If it was bloody, that's

41:14

how he got blood on his palm and he put his

41:16

hand down on the

41:18

on

41:18

the washer and that's how that got

41:19

there. And he walked through blood in his

41:22

socks. So but here's my

41:24

thing though. It's not

41:26

like he's in the dark in the laundry room. Would you

41:28

not see it a bloody

41:30

handprint? I think we both

41:32

realized

41:32

i think we both we

41:33

would see that. Why didn't

41:35

you see that? I would think so. Yeah. But even if he

41:37

had done something bad in

41:40

this home,

41:42

wouldn't he have noticed the bloody handprint and say, oh,

41:44

I gotta get rid of that. Yeah. And that's what

41:47

that's another thing that's very strange. And and

41:49

I'll better take this bloody

41:52

off and these bloody socks

41:54

and just get rid of them altogether.

41:56

Yeah. I I think, you know, one of

41:58

the things that was damning for David

41:59

was his own admission. To police

42:02

that he was the only one in

42:04

the house who knew there were

42:06

two keys to the rifle's trigger

42:08

lock and that despair was

42:10

kept in the jar. You

42:11

know what? As a kid, you can think that. Would you be

42:14

amazed on what your parents or

42:16

your siblings or

42:16

your siblings know about what you keep in

42:18

your room and where you keep it? And

42:20

they may not tell you that they know, but sometimes they

42:23

know. Please found more evidence

42:25

in Steven's room. It

42:27

was the lens from the left hand side

42:30

of the pair of glasses from

42:32

David's

42:33

room. Investigators also

42:35

found a pair of bloody gloves in Steven's

42:37

room. Please ask David about

42:39

any gloves he

42:42

owned which he said he usually kept in his bedroom drool.

42:44

He denied knowing anything about the blood

42:46

stained white gloves found

42:49

in Steven's room but said Robin owned

42:51

a similar pair. It was around this time in

42:53

the

42:53

interview that David asked to have a

42:56

lawyer

42:56

present.

42:59

And, you know, obviously, he

43:02

must have sensed at this point

43:04

and probably should have sensed it

43:06

earlier. Right. Based on all the questions that

43:08

they were asking. I think the

43:10

minute the police ask you if you killed your

43:12

family, your

43:14

the year spidey

43:15

senses have to start tingling

43:18

that they're looking at you. This

43:20

is the time you say, this interview

43:22

is now over. But definitely when

43:24

they start going into these other,

43:26

you know, very specific

43:28

questions. Yeah. They They're taking a

43:30

hard look at you. No doubt. And I'm sure he sensed

43:32

that at that point. According

43:34

to staff dot co dot n

43:36

z, David was unable to

43:38

return to the family home. He went to

43:40

stay with an aunt

43:42

and uncle. One night, David told his

43:43

relatives he hated his father, whom

43:45

he said

43:46

was sneaky and eves

43:48

dropped on private conversations. He

43:51

said that even though no one in the

43:53

family apparently wanted Robin at the

43:56

house, his dad was stubborn.

43:58

David spoke with his extended family

44:00

about his plans for the his

44:02

intention to sell the property and

44:04

purchase another property somewhere

44:06

else for him to live.

44:09

He also mentioned wanting to

44:11

seek repayment on behalf of

44:13

his parents for a loan they'd made

44:15

to some family friends. So I

44:17

think some of these things were kind of

44:20

hitting people the wrong

44:22

way. They were viewing

44:24

some of this stuff as a

44:26

little suspicious. Like, he's he's ready to move forward.

44:28

He has plans -- Yeah. -- really quick.

44:30

Yes. Some of these

44:31

are financial. And there was

44:33

something else that struck the people around

44:36

David strange during this

44:38

time. In making

44:38

the funeral arrangements for

44:42

his family, David

44:42

focused on unusual and

44:45

inappropriate aspects. He was

44:46

fussy about his outfit. And

44:49

the

44:49

music hit the service. But then he

44:51

also became concerned

44:54

and went into deeply intimate

44:58

detail about to close our

45:00

war should be wearing,

45:02

including her underwear. And to me,

45:04

that does seem a little

45:06

strange. Yeah. You could see you

45:08

know, relatives and people around him would

45:10

think, why are you so concerned about

45:14

that?

45:15

Kind of bizarre. And I think some

45:17

of the people viewed it as kinda little bit off color.

45:19

According to court documents,

45:22

David suggested to his

45:24

extended family

45:25

that he

45:26

invite some

45:27

of Arawa's friends to

45:30

a posthumous birthday party in her

45:32

honor, which fell on June twenty

45:35

sixth. It's kinda strange too. Yeah. I

45:37

think you definitely could view these things

45:39

as strange. You know, could this be

45:41

a person just working through

45:44

their grief? People

45:44

do some things when they're struggling

45:46

with grief that maybe they wouldn't do

45:48

in a different situation.

45:50

different situation They

45:52

wouldn't say or they wouldn't they wouldn't come

45:54

up with this idea. Maybe this

45:57

wasn't a strange request.

45:58

request Based on relationship with his

46:01

sister and other siblings. Yeah. Yeah.

46:03

We don't know that. We only

46:05

know that people reported

46:08

it as making them feel as

46:09

though it was strange. It

46:11

also came

46:12

out that, you

46:14

know,

46:14

even

46:15

though Laniad no

46:17

longer lived at the home, she

46:19

stayed overnight at

46:22

David's request. So we said early on, family meeting. We didn't

46:24

really know what the details of

46:26

that family meeting were when it

46:28

was going to

46:30

take place. So

46:30

is the thought that

46:31

he asked her to stay over the

46:33

night because he wanted to make sure she

46:35

was there in

46:37

the morning to

46:39

be murdered? Well, I think if you're if

46:41

you're going to side with

46:43

the theory that

46:45

David's the

46:46

killer, then, yeah, I'm Absolutely. That would be

46:48

the reason why. You would say

46:50

he did it because he wanted

46:52

everyone in the same house at

46:55

the same time because this was his plan

46:57

and he was going to carry it out. Things

47:00

looked even worse for David when

47:02

police confirmed. His

47:04

bloody fingerprints were

47:06

found on the forearm of the rifle. And he

47:09

had no explanation for how

47:11

they got there. There was

47:14

no sign of Robin's prints

47:16

on the rifle at all. A

47:18

significant amount of blood found on

47:20

David's clothing was also

47:22

identified as belonging to Steve.

47:24

Yeah. So I can see where this is not looking good

47:26

for him. No. It doesn't look good

47:28

at all. Now I think if

47:30

you wanna play defense attorney and try to chip away at some of this stuff,

47:32

there are ways to do it.

47:34

are ways to do Right? How

47:36

did some

47:37

of the the victim's

47:40

blood

47:40

get on your shirt. Well,

47:42

I was grieving. I touched

47:44

them. I hugged. I mean, you know what I'm saying? Sure. There are are

47:46

some ways that some

47:48

of that stuff could be explained. Maybe

47:50

when anyone found his dad's

47:54

body, he grabbed the rifle with his hands, which could have bloodied

47:56

at the time. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

47:58

you can kind of work

48:01

through your mind how a defense attorney

48:04

would try to break some of that stuff

48:06

down, and try to

48:08

convince a jury that it doesn't

48:10

mean what the prosecution

48:12

is going to tell you at me. Right. And

48:14

the reason he might not be able to remember is because

48:16

he was in shock at the time. Sure. But

48:18

back to your point, none of this stuff looks good. No. I think

48:21

that's the key. For police, they

48:23

came up with two scenarios. David

48:26

as the possible killer. The

48:28

first had the entire family

48:31

murdered after David arrived back

48:33

from his paper route The

48:36

second alleged David killed

48:38

Margaret in his siblings

48:40

before leaving the house

48:42

and then murdered Robin when

48:45

he got back. So if you go along with

48:47

the second theory and think about

48:49

that, maybe Robin was staying in

48:51

the camper

48:53

outside and David

48:54

did whatever he did inside before he left for paper route,

48:56

and then Robin woke up,

48:59

got dressed, walked out, got the

49:00

newspaper, came into the house.

49:04

And

49:04

then met his fate

49:05

after David got home.

49:06

Yeah. Yeah. Well, one of the

49:09

things that I really struggled

49:12

with And I was gonna

49:14

wait to talk about was

49:16

the report that Robin had

49:18

a full bladder. But we said he

49:20

was fully dressed. He was fully dressed.

49:24

Now, most people,

49:24

when they get up

49:26

in the morning, they

49:28

don't get dressed

49:30

before

49:30

using the restroom. That usually comes

49:32

first, maybe

49:33

a little teeth brushing,

49:34

then you

49:35

get dressed, then you

49:37

get ready to go. But

49:39

if you're in a camper that doesn't

49:41

have a bathroom, could you see

49:43

a scenario where he

49:45

got dressed in

49:48

the camper got the paper and was coming into the house

49:50

and planned to use the bathroom once he

49:52

got into the house. Easily,

49:54

easily. You know, it might have been why he grabbed

49:56

the paper.

49:58

When a little This is gonna go to days

50:00

after the killings. David was charged

50:02

with five counts of murder.

50:05

On July seven two and a half weeks

50:07

after the murders at the request

50:09

of Robin and Margaret's families

50:11

and in discussion with

50:13

David. The Bain Family Home was destroyed

50:16

in a controlled fire under the

50:18

supervision of the New Zealand

50:20

fire surface. Seems like a

50:22

strange thing to do at that time.

50:24

I'd also seemed strange that

50:26

David would have any say in the

50:28

matter. Yeah. Because he's on trial for the the murders,

50:30

but the fact that they even

50:32

discussed it with him. Is

50:34

this okay? this okay I

50:36

guess maybe if he's acquitted or

50:38

not found guilty, he's the

50:40

heir of the estate.

50:41

I'm guessing so

50:44

maybe they

50:44

just wanted to make sure he was good

50:46

with it. Yeah. It seems strange. Now let's not forget.

50:49

Right? This house was in kind

50:51

of a really bad

50:54

state

50:54

of disrepair. It was filthy.

50:56

So

50:57

you you have that aspect.

50:58

I I think you also had

51:01

the aspect of what were they

51:03

gonna do with this house? Yeah. You know, this

51:06

is something that we talked

51:08

about in our t

51:09

cat episode. Who

51:11

wants to buy a house where a

51:13

family was murdered, not too many

51:15

people. No. I'm sure there's somebody

51:17

out there, but you

51:19

know, you you've got that.

51:22

Plus, is this

51:22

gonna be a house

51:24

where, you know, people are driving

51:26

by? Is it gonna turn into kind

51:29

of this for the lack of a

51:31

better word tourist attraction. Well,

51:34

that's something that it probably

51:36

would. Right? Right. I mean, think about the defeo

51:38

House, Amityville. Yeah. Now

51:40

that was furthered by the

51:44

haunting or the alleged haunting and the movies and all

51:46

that, but I think another

51:48

reason why people would probably

51:50

not wanna buy it. Yeah.

51:53

People just coming by, driving by. Just wanted to take

51:55

a look. Yeah. Because this is where, you

51:57

know, this terrible thing

51:59

happened. Yeah. According

52:01

to the New Zealand Herald, in

52:04

December nineteen ninety four, over

52:06

a period of a week, David

52:07

underwent several

52:10

psychiatric evaluations in preparation

52:12

for his upcoming trial. He

52:14

had no signs of any significant mental

52:17

illness or psychopathology

52:20

and was deemed fit to proceed to trial.

52:22

But the psychiatrist did note

52:24

that David reported having

52:29

Deja vu, premonitions,

52:32

said that he had was going

52:35

into translike states. But the

52:37

psychiatrist also said that this was not

52:40

abnormal for

52:42

young people. Used

52:44

to have deja vu all the time. I I used to have it every now

52:46

and then. I just had to just

52:48

know. Me saying I had deja vu to

52:51

you. Was deja vu?

52:52

Yeah. So,

52:53

you know, I I think some people look at this and

52:56

they're like, okay, is it

52:58

normal? Is it

53:00

not normal? And even even so,

53:02

would it mean that, you know, he wasn't

53:04

fit to proceed to trial? So there's a

53:06

lot going

53:08

on here. There

53:09

is. And we have a lot more. I mean, there's

53:11

so much information. We had to

53:13

break this down into a

53:16

two parter I think this

53:18

is a good spot

53:20

to

53:20

stop. There's so much

53:21

more to cover in

53:23

this case.

53:24

In part two, we'll

53:26

get into the nitty gritty of the kinda

53:28

high profile trial, David's

53:32

appeals, retrial, the

53:34

evidence against Robin, and

53:36

the aftermath of what really became

53:38

one of the most sensational and

53:42

devastating cases to rock New Zealand. Yeah. But I do kinda

53:44

wanna wrap up episode one.

53:46

You know, where we stand

53:47

right now? I think

53:49

you said it, It

53:51

doesn't look good for

53:53

David based on the

53:56

evidence that police say

53:58

they have some

53:58

of the timing, some of

54:00

the

54:01

explanations. Yeah. It it just doesn't look

54:03

good. But one of the things that, you know,

54:05

I always think about

54:07

in cases like this. Obviously, it comes

54:10

down to either David

54:12

killed his family or he didn't. And

54:14

if

54:14

if he didn't he didn't, then,

54:16

you know, how horrible is it

54:18

to lose your

54:19

entire immediate family? And

54:22

then

54:23

essentially within days, be

54:25

charged with their murders and

54:27

know that you're gonna go on trial

54:29

-- Yeah. -- for the murders of

54:31

your family and you're gonna

54:33

have to fight that. You did

54:35

nothing wrong. It's horrific. But we'll get into more of that in

54:37

episode two. We got some voice mails. You wanna

54:39

check those out? It's serum. Hi,

54:41

Mike and

54:41

Gabby Barbara from

54:44

Maine. I just want to say that I

54:46

love the show and

54:49

I wanted give you an update in case

54:51

you hadn't heard. They have

54:53

identified the boy in

54:56

the box. The name they have not

54:58

released yet, but more information is set to be coming out next week.

55:00

Keep up the good work and

55:02

love the show.

55:03

Thanks. Bye. Yeah. I I

55:05

did see that. It's kind of a huge

55:08

thing. We did that

55:10

case. I forgot to talk about it on

55:12

Patreon. I did

55:14

talk about the latest

55:14

conviction in the rodent case,

55:16

which we did. But, you know,

55:18

the boy in the box case is

55:21

old. It is old. And So

55:24

for them to identify

55:26

him, people have been

55:29

following that case, kind

55:31

of armchair detectives working that

55:34

case for a very long time.

55:36

So it's gonna be a big

55:38

deal. We keep

55:40

talking about And I don't know exactly how they solved it. I'm

55:42

assuming it was some type of forensic

55:44

genealogy probably because we keep talking

55:46

about that. Yeah. And how

55:48

it's breaking some of these cases

55:50

open where, you know, I

55:52

think because so much time had passed, people

55:54

thought, no. We're never gonna

55:56

find out. But this technology man getting better and better

55:58

is getting better and better. But it's

55:59

one to follow. It'll

56:01

be interesting to

56:04

figure out you know,

56:06

who this boy was and

56:08

then what they're able to

56:10

glean from, you know,

56:11

knowing his name. Because

56:13

it's kinda hard to work a case when you don't know

56:15

who the victim is. Exactly. You gotta have that

56:17

and work yourself backwards from there.

56:19

Hey,

56:19

guys. My name is Ray, and

56:21

I live in Mobile Kentucky. I'm

56:23

listening to the tericato episodes. And

56:25

it's not Berlin. It's

56:27

Berlin, New

56:30

Mexico, and it's not the

56:32

Manjano mountains. It's Manjano

56:34

on prem Albuquerque.

56:36

It's gorgeous place. I suggest

56:38

to go visit more often. This is

56:40

a great episode. You guys are amazing. You're both

56:42

my favorite. So thank you. Keep your head

56:44

on simple. Have a great day. Bye.

56:47

Albuquerque. Yeah. We heard a lot about

56:50

the the pronunciations in

56:52

that one. We kinda

56:53

knew we probably would. Yeah.

56:55

I'm I'm still upset because I did

56:57

hear a bunch of people say

56:59

the name of that

57:01

town. Literally

57:03

broadcasters -- Sure. -- from that

57:05

area. Yeah. Calling it Ellen.

57:08

Yeah. Locals. Locals. I

57:09

just wanted to say thank you

57:12

very much. For not

57:14

playing sounds

57:14

in the background like, you

57:18

know,

57:19

just background

57:22

noises in general.

57:24

Some of the podcasts are

57:26

forced to listen

57:28

to they

57:30

put

57:30

they have sales in

57:33

the background and then

57:35

my I'm

57:37

in the car So I think my car is making

57:39

a weird noise, so I had to pull

57:42

I have to pull over,

57:46

and then I turned

57:48

the radio off, and

57:50

then

57:51

low and behold, it's

57:54

just a stupid sales on the

57:56

podcast. So

57:58

thank you

57:59

for not. Doing

58:02

any sounds in the background.

58:04

It's a little things that

58:06

make

58:07

me love y'all. You

58:09

would think I would one

58:11

from the first experience, but I

58:14

do not.

58:18

Look at that. I'm not really

58:20

sure what she's talking about. You

58:22

know? I mean, we just do what we

58:24

do. We just do naturally.

58:27

Now I know kind of the

58:29

the wave for

58:30

a while now has been to

58:32

play music in the background. I

58:35

get very distracted. By hearing music behind

58:38

people talking. I know some

58:40

people love it, and they they they like

58:42

that form. I think it's like, ah, me in this.

58:44

Is that

58:46

Yeah. Especially if it's ominous. No. I

58:48

I it takes it takes

58:50

away for me -- Yeah. --

58:52

from what the people are saying

58:55

I have to concentrate that much harder to make sure

58:57

I can understand them. But, you

58:59

know, it's just a it's

59:01

just a choice. We're

59:02

kinda no nonsense, just no frills. Here's

59:05

the story. We're definitely

59:07

no nonsense. Yeah. We don't we don't

59:09

take any nonsense. Right.

59:12

Alright, buddy. That is it for part one

59:14

on the Bain Family Murders.

59:16

We'll be back with everyone

59:20

next week. That's another

59:22

episode of True Crime all the time unsolved. So for

59:24

Mike -- And Gabby, stay safe

59:26

and keep your own

59:28

time ticking.

59:34

he

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