0:34

no everyone and welcome to episode two

0:36

seventy nine of the true crime all the time

0:38

unsolved podcast on my ferguson and

0:40

with me as always my partner and true crime

0:42

why gibson gimme how are you a male

0:44

doing good about yourself i am doing very

0:47

well yeah so happy that

0:49

you're in the studio with me they'll have

0:51

been in the studio i just it just makes

0:53

it a good night it is let's go

0:55

ahead and give our shout outs for patriot

0:58

riyadh power moscone who's been was

1:00

a while but she jumped up higher than

1:03

our highest level she's got some moxie

1:05

that might see she does donna

1:07

russell feed on a rosy abbott

1:09

was gone all rosy samantha fraser

1:12

per se det som member mindy hernandez

1:15

up many

1:16

the derby a guy eighty two well

1:18

you know guy to to thank you sierra

1:21

and season when

1:23

i see you to her a mod they

1:26

might ten lamb will proceed that lamp

1:28

tyrrell powell jumped out the highest

1:30

level power in the house rosa

1:32

lopez was gone on rosa stephanie

1:34

ortiz a stephanie dale

1:36

osborne appreciate it deal paula

1:38

well there's paula rk appreciate

1:41

that arcade sue more tests

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the to say hey sue or just

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got a was of jessica george

1:48

faulkner age words candy

1:51

ah others candy ran off

1:53

from marin

1:55

the for a mariners like factors

1:57

user to let italian accent do any say

1:59

that name

1:59

the have to risk diane the diet

2:02

is probably not even as a prominent ron

2:04

v on and last the not least

2:06

susan dubuque fi dubuque i

2:08

never go back into the vault

2:11

this week we selected jamie pero

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with up jamie so appreciate all the

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now on to from all the time the

2:34

have an episode out on charles albright

2:37

the man who became known as the eyeball

2:40

killer image below queasy thinking about

2:42

it yes i know you that little squeamish

2:45

during the recording of the episode

2:47

but you when you think about a man

2:50

removing

2:52

the eyeballs in a

2:54

surgical fashion from

2:56

his victims

2:59

it's something that inertia

3:01

hi buddy are you ready to get into this episode

3:03

of true crime all the time on saw i

3:05

am we're talking about unsolved

3:07

murder of a non the d

3:10

and we're headed to jamaica

3:14

as far as i know we have never done

3:16

an episode in jamaica before we have

3:18

not so there's the first time for everything

3:20

we're headed to the caribbean or the caribbean

3:22

how are you say that

3:24

well for you

3:25

you can say on however you want i can

3:28

cause your gibi well and

3:30

you can get away with no i think

3:32

that's a word were there really is no wrong

3:34

way to say it can be said

3:36

either way i'm like

3:39

there were no

3:40

there is really only one way to say movie

3:43

of illinois as well those we

3:45

get into this case of eleven year

3:47

old a non the the when missing

3:49

on september seventeenth two

3:51

thousand eight she was living at

3:53

her aunt's home and grants pass on

3:56

whitehall avenue st andrew

3:58

jamaica she was

3:59

i've seen leaving her school where

4:02

she was a sixth grade students as

4:04

swallow field primary and

4:06

junior high he was getting on

4:08

a bus heading to halfway tree

4:11

the neighborhood near her answer

4:13

when a non the didn't return home later

4:15

that day

4:16

he was reported missing by her

4:19

and

4:19

the mika camp she went

4:22

several offers school books were found

4:24

a day after she went missing scattered

4:27

along the walkway in the

4:29

community of pembroke hall a

4:31

few miles away from where she was last

4:34

hernandez father richard dean

4:36

told the star

4:38

when i heard that are books were found i

4:40

became hopeful again that she

4:42

would be found alive

4:44

and we searched the entire pembroke

4:46

whole area

4:47

we were inside of peoples' yards

4:50

and people from that community were also

4:52

assisting they had learned about

4:54

her disappearance over the news

4:56

the also said they searched everywhere

4:59

and left no stone unturned

5:01

the also acted on every clue

5:03

and lead that he had received

5:06

the we have the eleven year old girl

5:09

the i'm missing after school how many

5:11

times have we heard of scenario like this

5:13

to many

5:15

unfortunately

5:16

the other thing we hear all

5:18

the time

5:19

the is new people rally

5:22

around a missing young

5:25

one obviously the parents are

5:27

concerns but people in the

5:29

community as well helping out

5:32

searching

5:33

doing whatever they came that's

5:35

what you would hope would happen in every situation

5:38

absolutely the nando

5:40

was born on november eleventh nineteen

5:42

ninety seven to her father richard

5:44

dean and mother narnia

5:47

camp according to the jamaica

5:49

glean the nada was described by

5:51

friends and family as a perfect child

5:54

who had a heart of gold she was full

5:56

of manners and very helpful to

5:58

others

5:59

everyone one

6:00

which is evident in how the entire

6:03

community including school assisted

6:06

with her search when she went missing

6:08

though doesn't play a role in it

6:11

yeah i'm sure it does but no

6:13

i don't say when you

6:15

have a good community

6:18

they're gonna rally around

6:20

the situation like this even if

6:22

they don't know the individual at all

6:25

right

6:25

oh sure the people who know

6:28

her and love her and she's very well

6:30

liked yeah they're they're all going

6:32

to help out

6:33

it's heart warming to me to

6:35

know that complete strangers

6:38

in a lot of these cases that we talk

6:40

about you're willing to

6:42

give up their time and

6:45

you go searching because

6:48

the feel

6:49

for the family in they truly want to

6:51

help to find you know

6:53

this young missing person i

6:55

mean these children are so precious

6:57

managers you can't sit around

6:59

and wait investigators interviewed

7:02

people who were known to be on

7:04

around the pan

7:07

the non there would have taken that day

7:09

they retrace your steps to get closer

7:12

to discovering those responsible

7:14

for the disappearance of eleven

7:16

year old the non the deal

7:18

according to the star richard dean

7:20

said the know that unarmed

7:22

a was taken

7:24

the way for me as a horse feeling that

7:26

i cannot explain it is

7:28

the constant support that i have around

7:30

me the keeps me going

7:32

the heart skips a beat

7:34

every time i see another child go

7:36

missing and i always pray

7:38

that here she returns home that

7:40

is not always the case

7:43

you're right you know these kids though

7:45

missing

7:46

and everybody hoax a return

7:49

sometimes they don't in right

7:51

now he's open his kid

7:53

returns

7:54

obviously some of these interviews that he

7:56

gave happened you know later and

7:59

time i'm sure

7:59

the

8:00

the one thing i don't know that we've talked about

8:03

that off

8:04

is you when you're the

8:06

parent of a missing

8:08

the you're grieving for

8:11

your child is trying to figure out what

8:13

happened to them

8:15

what would be the feel

8:17

when you see on the news that

8:19

another child has gone missing

8:22

because now you know exactly

8:26

what does parents feel because you're living according

8:29

to the jamaica gleaner there was

8:31

a person who use the opportunity

8:33

of a non the going missing

8:36

to try to cash in on her disappear

8:39

this person requested money for information

8:42

the autumn and leave proved to be

8:44

false

8:45

global voices reported that

8:48

there were also other reports of

8:50

taunting telephone calls received

8:52

by the dean's made by

8:55

the other individuals demanding ransom

8:57

or providing clues that led

9:00

nowhere i don't or same way individuals

9:02

think this is okay final know they

9:04

think it's okay adding some

9:06

believe it's a way for

9:08

them to make some quick

9:10

money yeah hi

9:13

scamming people were a time

9:15

of need i mean let's face it people

9:18

are scamming people all over the world

9:20

every day the meat is even

9:22

worse than your normal scam because

9:25

you're trying to cash in on a tragedy

9:28

that is sleep at night you know doing this

9:31

the much com yeah

9:33

i don't know that some of these scum

9:35

have what we would think of as a conscience

9:39

plus they they probably sleep fine and

9:41

the non does father was told when

9:44

he and hurry the reported her

9:46

is missing that the police

9:48

said they would need to wait

9:50

twenty four hour period

9:52

before she could officially

9:54

the listed as missing

9:55

the and

9:57

before they could take any action

9:59

the to the people good the

10:01

lack of prompt action

10:03

though remarkable insensitivity

10:07

on the part of the police

10:08

probably more so

10:11

when you realize that by the next day

10:13

the trail of her abduction had grown cold

10:16

now we see the same thing here in the us from

10:19

time to time not as much

10:21

as we used to write this used to be kind

10:23

of a normal thanks he had a weight so

10:25

many hours right

10:28

any the other thing that people look at

10:30

in regards to this twenty four hour

10:32

waiting period

10:34

that

10:35

the children

10:36

had been murdered from january two

10:38

thousand eight up until the

10:40

day that a non the went miss

10:43

there's a lot of children

10:45

so maybe we want to jump on the low quicker

10:47

yeah why way you know miss make sure

10:49

this is not gonna happen to this child

10:52

on september twenty fifth a

10:54

days after a non the wind

10:56

missing

10:57

the hunt for her

10:59

continued

11:01

someone found some of

11:03

her brand new school books dumped

11:05

on a busy pembroke whole avenue

11:08

in the nation's camp the

11:10

we already mentioned

11:12

the books were found early on

11:14

the now somebody has found additional

11:17

schoolbooks on september

11:19

twenty eighth of love and days

11:22

after her disappearance according to

11:24

the halfway tree jamaica observer

11:27

the body was discovered around ten

11:29

am hi residence or

11:31

belvedere in red hills sane

11:33

and they decided to investigate

11:36

the cause of a nasty odor that had

11:38

been lingering around nearby homes

11:41

for a couple of weeks one

11:43

resident said they thought odor was from

11:45

a dead and

11:47

the longer it remained the

11:49

more they realize they needed to investigate

11:52

the area for the source

11:54

residents cleared some bushes and

11:56

brush and they walked up to

11:58

clear

11:59

found the body of a little girl

12:01

this it had been tossed down the cliff

12:04

into the bushes side

12:06

the sort of world body was naked

12:08

and headless

12:09

the stonehill fire department removed

12:12

the little girl's body from the site

12:14

it's of them almost three hours

12:17

the bring the girl's body up

12:19

from the steep cliff the place

12:22

or body and a wooden box prior

12:24

to lifting it up to the roof the

12:26

body has experienced advanced decomposition

12:30

the

12:31

identification was not possible

12:33

at that point

12:35

these residents living there smelling

12:37

this odor then coming across

12:40

this

12:40

the girl's body with no head

12:42

how disturbing

12:44

that had to be when i go back to

12:46

the saturday his then

12:48

smelling it for some time yeah i'm

12:50

not putting any blame on them because

12:53

i could walk outside and smell some

12:55

strange be like aka right

12:57

you know i'm not going to go looking for that smell

13:00

five it is kind of heartbreaking

13:02

to think that she

13:04

she could have been there decomposing

13:07

for

13:08

as long as a as you

13:10

we mention that the body could

13:13

not be identified the some

13:15

family members including a non

13:17

disease we're convinced that

13:19

it was in fact the nanda

13:22

mainly because of black

13:25

sighs to school shoes and

13:27

a navy blue uniform summer

13:30

to one's own by and onda that

13:33

were found to see it was reported

13:35

gibbs that her and

13:38

saw the

13:39

little girls headless body once

13:42

the rescue team got the body

13:44

to the road the large crowd

13:46

was onside watching the recovery

13:48

for a yelled out it's a

13:50

c a c it's a number

13:53

then she fell to the ground in tears

13:56

the non does mother fainted at seeing

13:58

the body

13:59

the leaving

13:59

it was her little girl

14:02

this is something that i just can't

14:04

even fab y times

14:07

you'll see when there's

14:09

a scenario like this the police

14:11

will try to put up something

14:13

to block the view of the public

14:15

is like sheets or something something

14:17

a tense or or

14:20

whatever because they

14:22

don't want everybody standing on the road

14:25

to be able to see what is going on

14:27

because it's not a good see know the

14:29

now you find out that

14:31

you know the family members are there

14:34

having to see this

14:37

obviously you're going to be devastated once you

14:39

find out that the

14:41

sowed his death ray

14:43

and then to me you're going to be haunted

14:46

hi

14:47

the memories of what

14:49

you witness

14:51

much different than let's

14:53

say you're seeing her later

14:55

on after

14:58

the funeral home has had a chance

15:00

to work

15:02

their magic from a lack of a better

15:04

term exactly yeah that

15:06

lasting memory what you saw

15:08

how brutal right just

15:10

a think about what was going

15:12

on so the fact that you know

15:14

people are fading i think

15:16

i can understand is it must have been just

15:19

that's an absolutely brutal thing deputy

15:23

superintendent carol mckenzie are

15:25

the police at the st andrew north

15:27

division told the jamaica

15:29

observe that the

15:31

nhs would have to be done to

15:33

determine the bodies i didn't

15:36

investigators speculated that the body

15:38

may have been dumbed hours or

15:40

a day after a non to went missing

15:43

given the state of decomposition

15:46

which resulted in a pathologist

15:48

being caught and who perform

15:50

and on the spot posts more the

15:53

investigators did find the girl's head

15:55

though by that time it was

15:57

just a skull

15:59

they also see

15:59

to that she had been raped

16:02

the body was found only miles away

16:04

from where a non the was last seen after

16:07

she went missing almost two weeks

16:09

before and what really strikes

16:11

me here's a go back to you

16:13

know residents saying they been smelling

16:15

this for a couple of weeks

16:17

the timing seems to sit

16:20

the non they had been missing for

16:22

weeks

16:23

no the haven't conclusively

16:26

proven that it's her but the timeline

16:28

sit yeah the you have been a tropical

16:31

environment absurd

16:33

that

16:34

that up the decomposition

16:36

of the body

16:37

some residents came forward and said

16:40

they may have overlooked clues

16:42

that a body was disposed of in

16:44

their community some people told

16:46

papers as they saw they uniform

16:49

on the road that they never knew

16:51

it was little girls one resident

16:54

told papers that the girl

16:56

whose picture had been posted on flyers

16:58

place online posts bosses

17:00

in stores might have been

17:03

found though the are i'm

17:05

taken from this gibbs that

17:07

the recently the bore feeling

17:10

you yeah

17:12

we're not making the connection

17:14

that

17:15

okay

17:16

they saw this but they didn't put two

17:18

and two together and and dazed

17:20

okay this might be and on does

17:23

or this might be a clue

17:25

and her disappearance her disappearance

17:27

that's can natural it's hard

17:29

to blame people just citizens

17:32

for see something on the

17:34

side of the road and not making something

17:36

out of it move we all see something on

17:38

side the road from time to time right thirteen

17:41

the shoe

17:42

er bare shoes and sometimes i look

17:44

at that a like one of those get there

17:46

i've never stopped to said barbara call the police

17:49

yes yeah absolutely so

17:51

yeah i think to beat yourself up over

17:53

that is it natural for some

17:56

people to do it maybe so but i'm

17:58

with you

17:59

i just would

17:59

soon as somebody threw out the window

18:03

i'm sure as heck not going to pull over to the side

18:05

of the road to go investigate

18:07

these shoes and i'm not going to take that

18:09

extra step to call the police now

18:12

if i knew that this little

18:14

girl my community was

18:16

wearing the blue uniform

18:19

then i saw blue uniform okay

18:21

that might be different yeah that

18:23

my the a different type

18:26

of content then maybe that's

18:28

why some these people so guilty about

18:30

but here's the thing

18:32

it doesn't seem to me as though it

18:34

would have changed the outcome other

18:37

than maybe it would have helped find her body

18:40

faster then maybe there would

18:42

have been less decomposition there would

18:44

have been additional clues found something

18:47

like that it does sound

18:49

as though she was killed very

18:51

soon after she disappeared

18:54

according to the jamaican gleaner four

18:56

days after the gruesome discovery of

18:58

the box the non his parents were

19:00

called in for a more than

19:03

two hour long interview with police

19:05

from st andrew north division

19:07

the we don't know exactly what was discussed

19:10

in this

19:11

long interview with police

19:14

the deputy superintendent out

19:16

among campbell told the gleaner we're

19:18

in constant touch with them the

19:20

thing is door wide open so we have to

19:22

keep in contact with them finding

19:25

out whether or not there is anything they left

19:27

out or forgot to tell was

19:29

second aid in the investigation

19:32

three weeks after the body was

19:34

found the identification still

19:36

had not been made

19:37

in a non this family grew

19:40

very impatient that's a long way

19:43

for police to confirm

19:45

whether or not this body that was found

19:48

your little girl yeah

19:50

the frustrating

19:52

let's face it sometimes multitasking

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can be overwhelming like when

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your favorite podcast is playing in

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23:26

richard dean told the paper the he was tired

23:28

of weight

23:29

the man he was getting the runaround

23:31

from the police he said that

23:34

the fed up

23:36

three weeks now then i hear

23:38

next week

23:39

the police are dragging their feet

23:41

are you did we have to do what

23:43

they had to do bear if i'm richard

23:46

dean i'm fed up to i'm

23:49

on down there everyday same what

23:51

in the world is going on

23:54

i need to know is this

23:56

my dog the deputy

23:58

director at the government forensic laboratory

24:01

sharon briggs said the

24:03

dna testing delay was caused

24:06

by the degree of decomposition

24:08

of the body which affected analysis

24:11

a non this father was still unwilling

24:13

to believe the body sound was

24:15

his daughters

24:17

the guinea father wants to believe

24:19

you want answers to either acknowledge

24:22

that it is

24:23

that is not but she certainly don't want to believe

24:25

it's your daughter years still have that hope that maybe

24:27

your daughter still alive deputy

24:30

superintendent ultimate campbell

24:32

said he can understand the families

24:34

frustration they did however stress

24:36

said he had no control or the

24:38

lengthy process involved in forensic

24:41

testing he said i know it's a long

24:43

and painful process the weekend not

24:45

rush the expert the am

24:47

also said he could not advise

24:50

the family to go ahead with funeral

24:52

arrangements without getting concrete

24:54

evidence that the body was unarmed

24:57

he would he say in a few i don't know if it's

25:00

your daughter's body yet out new start

25:02

making arrangements he had to wait be patient

25:05

that's probably not easy for the family did

25:07

then on october twenty ninth two thousand

25:10

the fears of the family of a non

25:12

the dean were confirmed by the police

25:15

that the body sound was

25:17

that of their loved one

25:20

and number according to police

25:22

the relevant forensic tests were carried out

25:24

the confirm whether the body was indeed

25:27

added the younger

25:28

the mention it

25:30

you know tough on the family it took

25:32

a full month

25:33

the confirm

25:35

that it was in fact and know

25:37

the longer

25:38

the is a very long time

25:41

especially when you think about

25:43

every day

25:44

wonder

25:45

the family is it her

25:47

that her we don't know we think

25:49

it is

25:50

we don't know for sure

25:52

the other side of that which is

25:55

because we don't know

25:57

what do we do yeah can

25:59

like in limbo

26:00

the

26:01

we continue to search

26:03

because what if it turns out not to be hurt

26:06

or

26:07

are we simply left to

26:09

wait around for the police to

26:12

tell us they were just put in

26:14

such a difficult position

26:16

i get his police have to do their job

26:19

testing takes time i get all of

26:21

that this makes a very tough on the

26:23

same deputy commissioner

26:25

of police mark shields made the announcement

26:28

during a press conference held on october

26:30

thirtieth two thousand eight a dnc

26:33

be towers

26:34

in new things

26:35

he said while it is now certain

26:38

the body located on sunday september

26:40

twenty eight that of a non

26:42

the hundreds of other children remain

26:45

missing the likely victims

26:47

i've criminal acts

26:49

this harrowing into the search for a non

26:51

the dean is made even more

26:53

disturbed

26:54

why the fact that more than fifty children

26:56

have been murdered in jamaica since

26:59

the start of the among them

27:01

eleven year old hi john

27:03

scott dismembered body

27:05

was found stuffed into a bags

27:08

on september fourteen

27:09

then we talked about the city children earlier but

27:12

now you have the deputy commissioner

27:14

of police coming out making the statement

27:17

they give your citizen

27:19

the most of your parents you're very

27:21

concerned the have to be

27:23

that's a lot young people who have been murdered

27:26

the we mentioned early on gibbs

27:28

that some of a non does

27:30

books

27:31

were discovered after she was

27:33

reported missing

27:35

they were

27:36

wow own

27:37

very close to

27:39

the pembroke whole high school in

27:42

st andrew

27:43

on october twenty ninth

27:45

it was reported that there were threats

27:48

being issued again students

27:50

are that high school

27:52

in retaliation for dean's disappear

27:55

the police came out told the jamaica

27:57

gleaner that they look

27:59

into

28:00

the senior officer said

28:03

that to school was visited by

28:05

police who spoke with the prince

28:07

they did a preliminary assessment

28:09

of the matter and they sound no

28:11

substance to the threat the

28:13

i did finance i'm pretty

28:16

interesting sure the

28:18

guys you know that beauty

28:20

is up in arms

28:22

he said fifty children had been murdered

28:25

they want some my to pet that's

28:27

only natural that that would happen

28:30

you know anywhere around the

28:32

world though my take away from

28:34

this is that com one

28:36

maybe multiple people we're

28:39

trying to make the connection

28:42

between where the books were found

28:44

in this high school and they must have thought

28:46

well it had to have been

28:49

someone from this high school

28:52

dot did a non the and

28:54

then murdered her i don't

28:56

know how they could have had any evidence

28:59

employees came out later and said

29:01

they don't believe the threats were real anyway

29:04

the enemy that things like a pretty far reach especially

29:07

when you have zero as that

29:10

weather the threats were made we don't know

29:12

the police said they were

29:13

in in in a strange twist

29:16

that very same day policeman

29:19

was charged with carnal abuse

29:21

indecent assaults and attempting

29:23

to pervert the course of justice

29:26

in connection with the abduction of fourteen

29:28

year olds the neo

29:30

all born

29:31

the old worn was taken from her home and harborview

29:34

the eastern kings the police

29:36

appealed to the public for information

29:39

that could assist in locating

29:42

the we have a lot going on here

29:44

yeah in the wake of

29:46

your a non does disappearance

29:49

her eventual location

29:52

an identification possible

29:54

threats a police men

29:57

who

29:58

apparently tried to a doctor

29:59

fourteen year old

30:01

dorsey williams the grandmother

30:03

of a non the caught on the

30:05

jamaican government dot the anti

30:08

on punishments handed out to

30:10

convicted sexual offenders

30:12

he told a jamaican gleaner the

30:14

gallows in spanish town are getting

30:17

very rusty

30:18

the and they need to be used

30:20

and it is time we start

30:22

using them on these rapists

30:25

the raping of children is just as bad

30:27

as committing murder we need to start

30:30

hanging these rape

30:31

okay

30:33

grandma is not messing around

30:35

know the not missing her words

30:38

you saying we need to

30:40

start hanging rape

30:42

hundred you make a law only person

30:45

convicted of capital murder in face

30:47

the death tony bernardo adams

30:50

retired senior superintendent of

30:52

police hold the paper more

30:55

should be passed allowing for the castration

30:58

the person's found guilty of raping

31:01

a mind he said those who raped

31:03

girls under the age of consent the

31:05

be castrated in given

31:07

a sentence of thirty years hard

31:10

labor they rape and kill the victim

31:12

the gallows is a must people

31:15

getting away because they're not being

31:17

caught the new cause the

31:19

laws are not stiffener when

31:21

they go before the court they get a slap

31:23

on the wrist slap on the

31:26

wrist is a term that you and i have used

31:28

many many times on true crime all the

31:30

time we have a make we actually used it

31:32

in the episode that is out right now

31:34

probably did

31:35

it's one of our biggest pet peeves now

31:38

i'm sure a lot of people listen

31:41

the agree

31:42

that's what this woman is saying

31:44

yeah there's not much

31:46

that fires people more

31:48

than

31:49

the murder and rape of

31:52

a child

31:53

i agree with

31:54

the i don't know if that is something

31:56

that would ever be

31:58

you put into place

32:00

i don't when i do know

32:03

that anyone who commit

32:06

that type of crime against a child

32:08

the scum of the earth

32:11

and

32:12

i just have no sympathy whatsoever

32:15

for those

32:18

according to radio jamaica

32:20

in october two thousand eight the st

32:22

andrew north police launched a mannheim

32:25

the tumor who abducted and

32:27

savagely raid the teen girl

32:29

in the constant spring area

32:31

and seen in

32:33

there were fears among residents that

32:35

the attack was linked to a so called

32:38

raipur radio jamaica spoke

32:40

to the victim's mother she said her daughter

32:43

was walking home around five having

32:46

left school early he was walking

32:48

along lawrence ave in the meaning

32:50

silk road area when a gray

32:52

nissan sunny motor car

32:55

the robot decide the man

32:57

reportedly orders her to keep walking

32:59

and pretend that she knew the

33:01

car continue to follow her for short

33:04

distance before the back door was

33:06

open and she was forced

33:08

inside the be

33:09

the through his arm around her waist

33:12

and threatened to kill her

33:13

if she ran or made a noise the

33:15

teen was taken to the red hills

33:17

there close to where the body

33:19

of a non the d was found just

33:22

two weeks before this report came out

33:24

the young woman was robbed and savagely

33:27

rate the mother said her daughter scars

33:30

are more than just as he

33:32

said she's not doing great she's crying

33:35

then she says she thinks he is dream

33:38

the see this thing happen

33:40

over the tv news every day and

33:42

she just thinks she's dream basically

33:45

the reality doesn't hit for you

33:47

the victim's mother made her own plea

33:50

for vigilance among parents

33:52

and children in the area the search

33:54

was launched for the culprits the

33:57

they give the question became

34:00

was this the same suspect

34:02

that kidnapped and killed

34:04

a non the d then eventually

34:06

that became the question that the police wanted

34:08

to answer yeah

34:10

the gutter critical question

34:13

the getting answers to

34:15

the nodded dean was laid to rest that

34:17

dove com memorial park and st

34:19

catherine in november of two thousand

34:22

the jamaican gleaner reported that

34:24

her mother was wailing her father

34:27

was crying how could he not

34:29

be yeah the mean just

34:31

one imaginable sorrow

34:34

the service was adorned with colorful

34:37

blues red roses pink

34:39

and white floral arrangements and

34:42

teddy bears mourners

34:44

cry they gazed at the

34:46

purple and white coffin emblazoned

34:49

with a picture of a smiling and and

34:51

in the words forever lobbed

34:53

este on the site i'm only been

34:56

to one but i can tell you right

34:58

now the child's funeral

35:01

the so

35:02

the stating lead heartbreak

35:06

mean funerals

35:08

or said there's something about

35:10

a child's funeral that

35:12

for me is almost indescribable

35:15

the differences there that the

35:17

strauss life has not even had a chance to

35:20

ganja

35:21

in this case you know it was a child

35:24

who was murdered which

35:27

adds to me i think another element

35:29

to on may nineteen

35:32

two thousand please search

35:34

notification campaign called

35:36

a non the alert the named

35:39

after a non dean according

35:41

to dig jamaica the

35:43

and nando alert system for reporting

35:45

missing children was launched in

35:47

named in her honor the

35:50

system was devised to increase the chances

35:52

are recovering missing children we're

35:55

getting information out to the public fast

35:57

though very similar to our

36:00

the amber alert system

36:02

under the a non dollar program

36:05

when a child goes missing the report

36:07

is made to the nearest police station

36:10

war by calling one one not the

36:12

police then alert or non

36:14

dot alert participants

36:16

including the media

36:18

mobile phone companies local authorities

36:21

the knees will then mobilize community

36:24

groups after twelve hours

36:26

photos of the missing child will be placed

36:29

on electronic billboards

36:32

in shops supermarkets community

36:34

centers post offices like

36:37

i said patterned after the

36:39

amber alert system in the us

36:41

which began in nineteen ninety six when

36:44

dallas fort worth broadcasters

36:46

team with local police the develop

36:49

an early warning system to help find

36:51

abducted show amber stands

36:54

for america is missing broadcast

36:56

emergency response it was

36:58

created as a legacy to nine year

37:00

old amber savior it

37:02

was kidnapped while riding her bicycle

37:05

in arlington texas and

37:07

then brutally murder the other states

37:09

community soon set up their own amber

37:11

plans the idea was

37:13

adopted nation why there are a

37:15

d you and i have talked about this before

37:17

but near the amber alert system

37:20

there's been amazed

37:22

critical

37:23

yeah me think about now

37:25

with so many people having smartphone you'll

37:28

learn that comes up on your smartphone

37:31

for a child who has been reported missing

37:34

in and around your area that

37:36

is unbelievable yeah

37:38

that you couldn't be sitting at home

37:40

that you could also be driving in your car

37:43

the technology now and some cars

37:45

will read your tax out to you

37:48

the we will actually read it out

37:51

you can see the car they're looking for drive

37:53

right place

37:54

now give notice the police and

37:57

that my to say that

37:59

thou life yeah he really

38:01

has become an amazing system

38:03

the gov maybe the last three

38:05

months i've probably receive to there's

38:08

notices it's it's a really good

38:10

thing

38:11

according to the b b c the jamaican

38:13

government has set up electronic billboards

38:16

across the island with photos

38:18

and information about missing children

38:20

on an ongoing basis a

38:22

government official said the aim was

38:25

to help the public identify the children

38:27

as soon as they go miss in enable

38:30

the police to rescue them and

38:32

keep the missing fresh in the public's

38:34

eye the bbc also reported

38:37

that for children

38:38

this appear in jamaica everyday

38:41

eighty percent of them return home within

38:43

days or weeks but the remainder

38:45

or never found a law

38:47

i think it's good that they you know they're doing

38:50

these things that they are

38:52

the alert system i'll they have

38:54

the billboards that they're trying to use

38:56

i mean every helps

38:58

if it saves one or two children

39:01

the great

39:02

better the not doing anything at all

39:04

in a one thing that i took from is

39:06

is that they recognize

39:09

that there's a problem they're

39:11

not shying away from the numbers

39:14

now we we talked about was

39:16

the a deputy commissioner came out

39:18

and said this is how many people

39:21

or how many kids are you

39:23

know have been murdered in this time span

39:26

their senior to recognizing

39:28

it and they're trying to combat

39:31

that's was you have to do the in jamaica

39:34

from two thousand one to two thousand

39:36

and thirteen sixteen hundred

39:38

jamaican children were murdered

39:40

over forty three hundred children were

39:42

reported missing

39:44

from january two thousand and thirteen

39:46

march two thousand system then

39:49

you're jamaica has a population of

39:51

about three million people

39:53

which

39:54

that's it

39:55

the awfully close to the city of chicago

39:58

in population

40:00

though i don't know how

40:02

those numbers compare

40:04

who a big city in the us

40:06

like chicago the

40:08

seems like a lot he does seem like

40:11

a lot but you know the

40:13

numbers in chicago could be much

40:15

higher was true

40:16

the i didn't look them up

40:18

that i did want to give kind of a comparison

40:21

of the population of jamaica

40:24

the one child too many so

40:25

we know that yeah

40:27

absolutely

40:29

you may get authority saves your child

40:31

is missing he should try immediately

40:33

to contact the child's friends

40:35

relatives and associates go

40:37

to your local police station in file

40:39

a missing

40:40

person reports do not

40:43

wait twenty four hours man

40:46

that is what you want to hear ya

40:48

yeah

40:49

when it to police station take

40:51

them a most recent photograph of the

40:53

missing child's ensure that to please

40:55

give your receipt after making

40:57

your reports if you're not satisfied

41:00

with the response of the police ask

41:03

for the station supervisor or

41:05

superintendent in charge if

41:07

you located the chow before the police

41:09

inform them media

41:11

the tips it's great tabs not

41:14

just for jamaica

41:16

the i would saying that

41:18

those would apply here

41:20

in the us as well we

41:22

don't wait twenty four hours anymore to

41:25

file a missing persons

41:27

reports on hm learn

41:31

hagar a most recent photograph that's

41:33

gonna be very very helpful

41:36

the one that i really want if

41:38

you're not satisfied with the response

41:41

of the police go to a higher

41:43

up yeah as to talk to somebody

41:45

else the i think sometimes

41:47

we look at at the police and

41:49

a some was the authoritarian

41:52

almost scary

41:54

way

41:55

i can't talk to the police

41:57

like i would talk to let's

41:59

the

42:00

the restaurant if i was not happy with

42:03

my suit

42:04

i'm not saying going in yell at the police

42:06

or call them names

42:08

if you're not satisfied with the response

42:10

and i don't care what the setting is i

42:12

do use it as to speak to someone else

42:15

yeah keep pushing it forward according

42:18

to the jamaican gleaner richard dean

42:20

said that's if a non the were

42:22

alive today he would be looking

42:24

to leave university with her degree

42:27

i know she would have positively

42:30

impacted society that

42:32

her killers took her life in

42:34

change our lives for then

42:36

we hear too much of it then

42:38

on may seventeenth two thousand

42:41

twenty two the family of a

42:43

non the dean we lived

42:45

that agony all over again

42:48

after a non this twenty seven year old

42:50

sister so nice

42:51

was killed

42:52

the in a shocking funeral attack

42:55

the green or reported that gunman structurally

42:58

in the afternoon at the metal ras

43:00

memorial park in spanish to killing

43:03

two members of a funeral party

43:05

and injuring to a the

43:07

incident occurred just as the funeral party

43:09

was getting ready to depart from

43:12

the cemetery the gunmen were driving

43:14

a dark blue honda odyssey with tinted

43:16

windows they drove inside

43:18

the memorial park and opened fire

43:21

on a group of people we're about

43:23

to board a while

43:25

transport van

43:26

that had transported attendees

43:28

to the cemetery the euro attendees

43:31

scrambled for covers multiple rounds

43:33

we're

43:34

hi

43:35

just happen that a licensed firearms

43:38

holder was in the vicinity and

43:41

reportedly returned fire causing

43:43

the attackers to for more people

43:46

suffered from gunshot wounds after

43:48

the fire fire they were taken

43:50

to spanish town hospital where

43:52

sydney's and another me succumb

43:54

to their injured detectives

43:57

said they recovered more than twenty spent

43:59

shell

44:00

the employees sold the paper that the

44:02

shooters came for a specific person

44:05

in the gather

44:06

the world how lucky were they that

44:09

there was somebody there that was

44:11

able to the fan the

44:13

people that weren't armed

44:15

the i'm we don't know how many more people would

44:17

have been killed

44:19

this is the second case and

44:21

i don't how many weeks where

44:24

you have family has experience

44:27

to devastating tragedy

44:29

yeah yeah a of

44:31

their their children their loved ones

44:34

within the span of time it's yeah

44:36

absolutely ruff according

44:39

to the store and non does father social

44:41

media page those posts

44:43

and shares about missing children's

44:46

he wants to spread awareness facebook

44:48

profile picture is a non they're

44:51

bright eyes and captivating small

44:53

according to d

44:55

the pain remains unbearable

44:57

the even though it's been more than a decade since

44:59

her pass that's something that

45:02

i've always thought and i've said

45:04

it multiple times i just

45:06

don't believe that that type

45:09

of pain

45:10

those away

45:11

it may ebb and flow

45:14

it is always a or it has to

45:16

be so was linger inside you

45:18

then he says it's it's unbearable ten

45:20

years later he told the star

45:22

there are hundreds of children

45:24

they went missing after a non to diets

45:27

and a lot of them were found it

45:29

we hardly ever hear about

45:31

anyone being convicted

45:33

the nasa the release to another

45:35

i would like to see closure well

45:38

i have forgiven her killers to

45:40

make it a bit easier on myself

45:42

i still would want to know why and

45:45

who would kill my baby the

45:47

family remains positive and hopeful

45:49

than her killer killer's will be brought

45:51

to justice one day the feel

45:53

bad parents need to be more vigilant

45:56

where their children are concerned they

45:58

need to be protected and teach their

46:01

children to be wary of strangers from

46:03

an early age it as star

46:05

road there's can be with their children

46:07

all the time in all the preparation

46:10

and teaching apparent does there's

46:12

not a guarantee that the child will

46:14

be say the please must play a part

46:17

the school must play a role the

46:19

government must make the necessary

46:22

legislative changes and him for so

46:24

long

46:24

in society must also look

46:27

out for our troops

46:28

it may not stop these incidents but it

46:30

may reduce the frequency the

46:33

carnage on our use

46:35

augur words yeah i mean it all makes

46:38

sense

46:39

the you've heard that saying goes back

46:41

the for a long time it takes a village or

46:44

i don't know that's exactly what they're trying

46:46

to say here in the star but i

46:48

grew with all of

46:50

all these pieces these parts

46:52

of the puzzle

46:53

i'll have to work together yeah still

46:56

that's not going to solve

46:59

everything

47:00

it a step in the right direction

47:02

absolutely

47:03

you know i go back to something that

47:06

richard the said

47:08

that he

47:09

the forgive minutes gabi terrified

47:11

i don't know if i could do that

47:12

no i'm is an altogether

47:15

yeah i don't even saying i'm

47:18

debating it inside my head

47:20

i pretty much know that i couldn't

47:23

the me that's just an unforgivable

47:26

now many people do and we've

47:29

covered a lot of cases where people said

47:31

they forgive then you know maybe

47:33

it's their faith maybe it's

47:35

the the way that

47:37

they're mine works or how the what

47:39

they believe and i just

47:41

don't think i could do the non

47:43

his name was engraved on the crying child's

47:46

monuments and her mother was

47:48

in attendance for a small ceremony unveiling

47:51

the names of an additional two hundred and fourteen

47:54

jamaican children who have died under

47:56

violent and tragic circumstances

47:59

from macys the two thousand eleven

48:01

the april two thousand and sixteen

48:04

fernandez mother told the jamaican gleaner

48:06

i never stop praying know and i

48:08

sas sometimes i even ask god

48:10

why even know i know

48:12

i'm not supposed to do there

48:14

are times when i can't help but

48:17

questions the scholarship was established

48:19

in a non does memory that would be

48:22

awarded to an outstanding student love

48:24

her alma mater the government

48:26

will facilitate the two hundred and fifty

48:28

thousand dollars towards the efforts

48:30

demands the scholars though

48:32

obviously he knows we wrap up this

48:34

case gibbs there were some good

48:37

things that happened in the wake

48:39

of a non does murder

48:42

the and on the alert system

48:44

the good thing for jamaica

48:46

this

48:47

scholarship and her name that's a really

48:49

good thing the you like to see

48:52

things like that happen

48:54

this is an extremely tough case

48:57

matt we have

48:59

some information they have

49:01

the here's some timeline

49:03

information folks were

49:05

dropped tiered books were found over

49:08

there but they don't have a lot

49:10

to go they don't one

49:12

thing i do want to go back to is

49:15

the man has that was launched for these

49:17

two men

49:18

who

49:19

robbed in any rate this

49:21

team girl that we talked about

49:24

yeah we ask the question could this be

49:26

the same suspect or suspects

49:29

that were involved the kidnapping

49:32

and killing of unknown

49:33

i don't know the answer but the timing

49:36

in you know everything

49:39

lead you to believe that it's possible

49:41

sure

49:42

no whether continue to work on

49:44

this case means been what fourteen

49:46

years now

49:47

yeah that was one of the problems

49:49

with this cases there

49:51

there was a lot of

49:53

current

49:54

reporting is far as the investigation

49:57

right there was reporting on

50:00

what's going on with

50:02

monuments and

50:04

scholarships and and things like

50:06

that the non much in the way

50:08

of weird as the investigation stand

50:11

right now

50:12

you would hope

50:13

that is still active

50:15

open

50:17

still running leads if they get any

50:19

tips and all that we just

50:21

don't that's it for our episode

50:23

on the unsolved murder of a non the

50:25

deal with get some voice mails gives you and sectors

50:27

out sigma

50:29

matt lauer that sucker a huge

50:31

huge that messages was sought

50:34

to have also saw as

50:37

saw washer a washer so i

50:39

know that it is that as in all the letters

50:41

as a thriller say look

50:44

around and will say they're

50:46

, only one such abuse and as as

50:49

get away with that picking up

50:53

and that on that they will say

50:55

the last amount of money

50:57

why not get in the how things

51:00

turn around and so three movies children

51:02

million dollars so it

51:04

sounds like an older lady relatively look

51:07

into that you probably

51:09

know somebody who wants to buy off

51:12

i got the military rep

51:17

i've i've yet to be exact

51:19

i'm trying

51:22

amateur i'm on the phone

51:26

you know what i say gives always look

51:28

it's a real stating always the

51:31

fact it's you this to dabble

51:34

in that yeah you suspect

51:37

a number of cases where i i've always thought

51:39

that absolutely

51:40

get a kick out of people who

51:43

are when they're done leaving their voice mail here

51:45

are still then talking to someone else

51:48

my wife does that sometimes but she often

51:50

does the opposite

51:52

so call me and when i answer

51:54

she's already talking to somebody else

51:57

the you a kilo yeah where did you call

51:59

me or not you know i'm going to pick up the phone

52:01

why they would you start talking to somebody

52:03

oh right that is like our you know he likes

52:05

state i'm on the phone here i'm talking

52:08

here yeah i'm talking amazing gb

52:10

here

52:11

the i didn't care of the coroner

52:13

i've got

52:13

they are yea and i

52:15

was calling to tell you that ah so

52:18

the l and the tab is

52:20

silent i'm just as

52:22

i'm from atlanta and and

52:24

it can be very confusing ah

52:26

and and live not get ninety

52:29

two lot of people make that mistake

52:31

but he ever have another dekalb county

52:33

said to the nation you can not

52:36

have to try so hard to pronounce

52:38

that l cause it's it's a silent l

52:41

you know about silent now irvine as

52:43

not the silent hill a way hope

52:45

you guys are keeping your

52:47

head on a swivel and your

52:49

time is and oh

52:51

okay over came back

52:54

oh she

52:55

it's better but you know absolutely

52:58

analysis a covert

53:00

and everybody has now seems v

53:02

the cool when i had

53:04

what is

53:05

able to

53:06

hawk you didn't target

53:08

all know as know as could

53:10

barely breathe she's so as far as the

53:13

dekalb county

53:15

georgia yeah i'm glad she caught in and

53:17

let me know i just as zoo ever

53:20

the dekalb in illinois

53:22

and indiana there's counties right next

53:24

to him right in the states next to that

53:27

i why the l was

53:29

pronounced right i could be wrong

53:31

about that too but when i saw the georgia one

53:33

i just assumed they were all the saints but as where

53:35

i get in trouble

53:36

they can too many assumption

53:38

the l silence we know

53:40

now

53:41

my name is mike

53:43

michael mike uh mika that

53:45

have an hour my name michael

53:47

hogan and as work with that doesn't that you

53:50

, think of a better example mad

53:53

i saw at that moment yeah he

53:55

is in use milk

53:58

hey mike and debbie

53:59

it's jackie from canada

54:02

british columbia i just wanted to bring

54:04

both voicemail and say no i love you

54:06

guys his podcast listen ,

54:08

it every single day i'm a bit of a true crime

54:11

madison stop and listen to many different

54:13

crime podcast the last couple years and

54:15

stumbled across years couple months ago i

54:17

i love what you guys do i have no

54:20

team because you both rock so much

54:22

time and i really appreciate you guys

54:24

have some time in my day

54:27

day you hear somebody else talk about

54:29

to crime as best as warm treat since

54:32

i'm the only one who talk started with my friends

54:34

ah yeah i hope you guys have a great

54:36

great day and or maybe only

54:39

blows witness in dubai

54:41

yeah please do appreciate the kudos

54:44

if you don't have a lot of friends and and

54:46

a true friend the glob

54:48

on to this community because there's a bunch of people

54:51

who were and are there sure is absolutely

54:54

i body dad is it or

54:56

another episode is true crime all the time

54:58

on salsa for might and gibbs stay

55:00

safe and keep your own time taking

55:13

he

55:43

employing was like true grit

55:45

and once upon a time in mexico or

55:47

immerse yourself in seems worth series

55:49

like yellow snow and walker texas

55:51

ranger plus pluto to me

55:54

has gone through the channels the thousands more

55:56

movies tv shows and more the

55:58

best there