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500 500.

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That's audible.com/TCAT or text TCAT to

1:11

500 500. Hello

1:50

everyone and welcome to episode 382 of

1:52

the True Crime All The Time podcast.

1:55

I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as

1:57

always is my partner in True Crime.

2:00

Mike Gibson, Gibby, how are you? Hey, I'm

2:02

doing good. How about you? I'm doing great.

2:04

That's awesome. And I just got done doing

2:06

our weekly. Patreon thing.

2:09

We did. I nailed it. You did. Yeah.

2:11

As you always do. Absolutely. Talked a little

2:13

bit about some true crime news, what we

2:15

were watching, all that stuff. Let's

2:18

go ahead and give our Patreon shout out.

2:20

We had Melissa Porter. Hey,

2:23

thanks Melissa. Ilona. Hey, Iona.

2:25

Alicia RN 79. Well,

2:28

thanks Alicia. Mark. What's going

2:30

on Mark? Nick. Well, hey Nick.

2:32

Paula Wilson. There's Paula. Amanda

2:34

Moss. Well, thanks Amanda. Angela

2:37

Cass. Ah, like mama

2:39

Cass. Jason Kraus. Hey Jason.

2:42

And last but not least, Mom 7X.

2:47

That's a lot of mom. That's a

2:49

lot of children. A lot of kids. Yeah. That's

2:51

what I mean. Okay. Well, it came out a

2:53

little differently. I'm just saying, you

2:55

know, you're one busy mom. Yeah. Right. I

2:58

got what you were saying. Then if we

3:00

go back into the vault, this

3:03

week we selected Stephanie Nakasone. Hey,

3:05

thanks Stephanie. Yeah. Appreciate that. We

3:07

also had a great PayPal donation

3:10

from Hesper Stacey. Oh, thanks Hesper.

3:12

Yeah. Thanks to everyone. So

3:14

it gives right now we have an episode

3:16

out on True Crime All the Time Unsolved,

3:19

where we're talking about Lindy

3:21

Chamberlain. And this is a

3:23

pretty infamous story out of Australia.

3:26

She was convicted of murdering her

3:29

10 week old daughter. Lindy

3:31

claimed that a dingo attacked

3:34

the infant and dragged her away from

3:36

the family campsite. But

3:38

investigators didn't believe her. And

3:41

we've heard about it on different shows in the

3:43

past would kind of mock

3:45

it a little bit. Yeah.

3:47

Seinfeld was probably the most

3:49

famous one where Elaine says

3:52

the dingo ate my baby.

3:54

But that's pretty good. That wasn't bad.

3:56

I mean, it is me a little low

3:58

for Elaine. but it

4:01

has been kind of used in

4:03

a satirical way, but

4:06

this is not that. I mean, this is a

4:09

real story. Sure is, yeah. All

4:11

right, buddy, are you ready to get into

4:13

this episode of True Crime All The Time?

4:15

I am ready. We're talking about Tony Boyd.

4:18

On December 31st, 1969, Joseph Yablonsky, his

4:23

wife and his daughter were

4:25

murdered inside their home in

4:28

Clarksville, Pennsylvania. Earlier that

4:30

year, Yablonsky announced he was running

4:32

for president of the United Mine

4:34

Workers of America. That's a big

4:37

job. That's a huge job. You

4:39

think about the 60s. Big,

4:42

big time for the union.

4:45

Yeah. They were super

4:47

powerful. Yeah, they were. Now

4:49

his opponent was Tony Boyd, who

4:51

had been president since 1963. And

4:56

if there's one thing that I know

4:58

about union leaders, they really

5:00

don't wanna give up their power. No,

5:03

I used to work for a union. You

5:05

were not a union leader. I was a steward. Yeah.

5:09

Okay. Could have been on my way. Could

5:11

have been the next Jimmy Hoffa. Well, I did work

5:13

for the Teamsters. Yeah. But there's

5:17

a lot of power, there's a lot of

5:19

influence. I'm sure there's a lot of money

5:22

that comes with some of these very high

5:25

profile president of

5:27

union type jobs. So

5:30

obviously when your rival

5:32

is murdered, the police are going

5:34

to look at you. Of course. Because

5:36

there's a clear motive there. The

5:39

United Mine Workers of America was founded

5:41

in 1890 in

5:43

Columbus, Ohio, when the National

5:45

Progressive Union of miners and

5:48

mine laborers combined with the

5:50

Knights of Labor Trade Assembly,

5:52

number 135. That's gonna be a

5:55

big group. Yeah, it was

5:57

said 10,000 miners from Illinois,

5:59

Indiana. Ohio and Pennsylvania

6:02

came together to improve working

6:04

conditions and wages. The

6:07

union has local assemblies all over

6:09

the U S and even into

6:11

parts of Canada. That's a

6:13

tough gig, man. I was just getting ready

6:15

to ask you if you've done any mining

6:17

yourself. Family members have, but

6:19

not myself. Yeah, me neither. I've had a

6:21

lot of different jobs, but being

6:23

a miner was not,

6:25

you know, one of them. I

6:28

mean, the closest I came to being a miner was when

6:30

I was under the age of 18. So

6:33

you're saying you came close, but you didn't actually

6:35

reach it. You weren't

6:37

a miner. You were never a miner.

6:39

I was never even, even

6:41

at a very young age, but you know,

6:43

in all seriousness, tough jobs,

6:45

you know, I think about coal miners

6:48

or, you know, just

6:50

very hazardous condition. Yeah. And

6:53

you would think, and

6:55

I'm sure it was true over the years.

6:59

It kind of became the conditions

7:01

kind of became ripe for

7:03

needing a union to help

7:06

protect the workers. John L Lewis

7:08

was president of United Mine Workers for over

7:10

40 years. That's a long time. That's a

7:12

long time. And it kind of goes back

7:14

to my theory of, you know, once you

7:16

get it, how do you keep

7:19

it, you don't want to give that gig up. According

7:22

to Smithsonian magazine, Lewis

7:24

was a major figure in the labor

7:26

movement and encouraged the growth

7:28

of unions across the country. Now,

7:31

does it make sense that

7:33

out of necessity unions want

7:36

to grow? Because how does

7:38

a union thrive? Well,

7:40

membership membership. So, you

7:43

know, you're always trying to promote

7:46

growth. Lewis retired in 1960

7:49

and was succeeded by Thomas

7:52

Kennedy. However, it was vice

7:54

president WA Tony Boyle,

7:56

who was really in charge. Boyle

7:59

was a minor. from Montana, but

8:01

he was brought to the headquarters in

8:03

Washington by President John Lewis to be

8:05

trained as his successor. Thomas

8:08

Kennedy's health declined and Tony

8:10

Boyle assumed his executive duties.

8:12

He took over as president

8:14

after Kennedy died in 1963. Boyle

8:18

was chosen by former President John

8:21

Lewis from retirement. That's a

8:23

heck of an endorsement. Yeah, I mean, I

8:25

think if the former

8:27

president who was president for 40

8:29

years comes out and says, hey,

8:31

here's who I think should be

8:33

the next president, you're going to

8:36

listen to that person. At

8:38

this time, the UMW had 110,000 active

8:40

members and 40,000 retired members. There

8:46

were more than 1,300 local assemblies in 23 different states. So,

8:51

I mean, it was a big,

8:54

big union. Tony

8:56

Boyle had support from retirees and

8:58

higher ups in the union, but

9:01

lower ranking members weren't always pleased

9:03

with his leadership. Miners wanted

9:05

better safety regulations and a

9:07

guaranteed wage. There were also

9:09

complaints that union grievances

9:12

took months and sometimes years

9:14

to be resolved. Well, that's going

9:16

to be an issue for a lot of the members,

9:19

right? You file grievance and

9:22

you want it to be resolved

9:24

fairly quick and not take a

9:26

year to get resolution. Well, let's

9:28

face it, you're paying dues, right?

9:31

You are paying money out

9:33

of your check, let's say. You

9:36

expect to get some benefit

9:39

for that. Representation. And

9:42

if you have a grievance, you

9:44

want it taken care of in a

9:46

timely manner. Obviously, everybody

9:48

wants better safety regulations, especially

9:51

in an industry like

9:53

that, which is pretty hazardous. Many

9:56

disliked the fact that retired members

9:58

still had full voting. benefits. I

10:00

kind of get that, you know, you're

10:02

not active anymore. You're not

10:05

dealing with what we're dealing with. I'm

10:08

guessing that maybe some of the retired

10:11

workers had voting rights because

10:13

it was relevant to their retirement

10:15

packages. So that's how I was thinking, you know,

10:17

pension, health, you know,

10:19

medical stuff like that. Some

10:21

of Boyle's greatest supporters came from

10:24

District 19, which

10:26

encompassed Kentucky and Tennessee.

10:28

At the 1964 UMW convention

10:31

in Miami, Boyle engaged

10:33

in some lavish spending. According

10:36

to Smithsonian, he faced

10:38

opposition for this, but the UPI quoted him

10:40

as saying, if you try to

10:43

take this gavel from me, I'll still

10:45

be holding it when I'm flying

10:47

over your head. Okay.

10:50

I'm assuming that means

10:53

he would be dead. Yeah. Something

10:55

akin to you'll have to pry

10:57

this gun out of my cold

11:00

dead fingers. Yeah, something like that. In

11:02

Miami, a group of miners from District

11:04

19 assaulted anti-Boyle

11:08

speakers. Another issue

11:10

was that union members felt

11:12

Boyle cared more about mine

11:14

owners than miners. What's the problem?

11:17

What's the problem for the miners? It's

11:19

great for the owners, right? If you've

11:21

got somebody that is leading up

11:24

the union, who is kind

11:26

of giving you

11:28

favorable terms, well,

11:31

you're really gonna like that person, but

11:33

the members aren't. No. Because

11:35

to them, you know, this is a

11:37

guy who's supposed to be working for

11:39

them, not the owners.

11:42

According to Smithsonian, the UMW

11:45

owned the National Bank of

11:47

Washington. By the 1960s,

11:49

the bank suffered from fraud

11:51

and poor management. Union

11:54

improved the bank's finances at

11:56

the expense of member benefits, but

11:59

this wasn't exposed. until the end

12:01

of the 1960s. And

12:03

I think this is something that you've seen

12:07

over the years. Unions

12:09

kind of get a bad name

12:11

because they do stuff that isn't

12:13

always quite legal. A lot of times

12:15

it centers around the financing.

12:17

Yes, the money. The

12:20

money, because the money is huge. Think

12:23

about the dues that are coming in

12:25

from what, 110,000 active members.

12:30

Okay, that's gonna be quite a bit of money.

12:32

It is a lot. Joseph Jock

12:34

Yablonsky was one of Boyle's

12:37

opposers. Joseph was born

12:39

in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania on

12:41

March 3rd, 1910. By the

12:43

age of 15, he was working

12:45

in the coal mines in the southwestern

12:47

part of the state. His

12:49

father died in a mine explosion in 1933.

12:53

This tragedy led

12:55

Yablonsky to become an advocate

12:57

for mine safety. And I

12:59

think you often see that. When

13:01

somebody at an early age

13:04

experiences a tragedy, someone

13:07

in their family dies in a

13:10

certain way. A lot of times that

13:12

can spur them on to kind of turn

13:15

their life in that direction. How

13:18

many people have become police officers? Because

13:22

something tragic happened in their family

13:24

and they wanted to help protect

13:27

people. Yeah, many. Same with firefighters.

13:29

Firefighters or. Doctors. Yep, you

13:31

can go right down the line. Joseph

13:34

was elected president of a local

13:36

assembly in 1934. He

13:39

represented 15,000 workers on

13:41

the executive board of District 5, which

13:44

encompasses most of southwestern

13:46

Pennsylvania. He also

13:48

served as a workers representative in

13:51

Washington from 1934 to 1942, like Tony Boyle. Joseph

13:56

Yablonsky caught the attention of

13:58

John L. Lewis. In

14:00

nineteen forty two with louis is

14:02

back joseph was elected to the

14:05

international executive board and

14:07

represented thirty five thousand from

14:09

district five he maintained his

14:11

position through seven election.

14:15

Big piece of the union well i think

14:17

it also tells you that people must

14:19

have liked him and must have liked

14:22

what he was doing. You know

14:24

to survive that many

14:27

different elections and

14:29

i did watch some videos on

14:31

this guy jock you blond ski and

14:34

a lot of people who worked with him or

14:36

knew him. They had a lot

14:38

of glowing things to say about him i

14:41

even saw some interviews where he was talking and

14:44

he was pretty outspoken

14:47

especially about tony

14:49

boy. He didn't like

14:51

the way that tony was running

14:53

things near the time of his

14:55

death in nineteen fifty eight

14:58

you blond ski was elected president

15:00

of district five in nineteen

15:02

sixty four he ran for vice president

15:04

of you and w. Without

15:07

authorization from headquarters

15:09

he was forced out of his

15:11

position as president of district five

15:13

by tony boil in nineteen sixty

15:16

six you blond ski later said

15:18

that. This was when he

15:20

made the decision to run against

15:22

boil for union president i

15:24

think what you have here is a couple of

15:26

guys who. Don't really care

15:28

for each other but are high

15:30

up in the union i'm

15:32

assuming tony boil wasn't happy when

15:35

jock ran for vice president

15:38

and so you know for the

15:41

amount of this position creating. Probably

15:44

a lot of bad blood sure

15:47

yeah you got someone with a lot of power trying to

15:49

keep it you got somebody trying to

15:51

rise up to the ranks to get some of that power

15:54

and they have let's say opposing viewpoint

15:57

yeah probably opposing interest. Yablonsky

16:00

was also a husband and father

16:02

of three young adults. His

16:05

first marriage was with Anne-Marie Huffman,

16:08

their son Kenneth Yablonsky was born in

16:10

1934. They

16:12

divorced and he

16:14

married amateur playwright, Margaret

16:17

Wacechak. They had two children

16:19

together, Joseph Yablonsky

16:22

Jr., nicknamed Chip and

16:24

Charlotte Yablonsky. Both

16:27

sons went on to become labor attorneys

16:29

and represented their dad in the union.

16:32

Charlotte was a social worker. Joseph

16:35

and his wife lived in

16:37

Clarksville, located in the heart

16:39

of Southwestern Pennsylvania's coal country

16:42

per Smithsonian. In the

16:44

late sixties, the New York

16:46

Times reported that Clarksville had a

16:48

population of less than 1200 people

16:51

and most of the residents there were minors.

16:54

The community was set within district five.

16:56

Probably felt like a big old family.

16:59

Yeah. 1200 people, not a lot of people.

17:02

By 1969, Yablonsky was part

17:04

of the UMW's inner circle,

17:07

but he was very outspoken

17:10

about union issues. He

17:12

felt as though the union

17:14

wasn't actually serving its members. And

17:17

I mentioned listening to him and some

17:19

interviews and that's kind of what he

17:22

was talking about in, in

17:24

some of the ones I, I watched.

17:26

I think it's always going to be

17:28

tough as a executive member

17:31

to go up against other

17:33

executives, well, especially the

17:35

president. Yes. That it's going to

17:37

be tough. When you come out and say something

17:39

like that, you're essentially

17:42

bad mouthing the

17:44

current administration. Yeah. And you're saying

17:46

they're not doing what they should

17:48

be doing. You're not getting the

17:52

support that you should be getting for

17:54

the dues you're paying. So in

17:56

May of 1969, Joseph decided. that

18:00

he was going to challenge Tony Boyle

18:02

in that year's election. He

18:04

accused Boyle of nepotism and

18:07

misuse of union funds and

18:09

pushed for more voting rights for

18:12

regular members. So nepotism,

18:14

yeah, it's not great. I

18:17

guess it depends on how qualified

18:19

the person is. That's true. Nepotism

18:21

when the person's not qualified at all,

18:23

that's terrible. Right. That's a

18:25

terrible practice, but I think

18:28

we're getting back to this misuse of

18:30

union funds, which is

18:32

something that we've heard of with a lot

18:34

of the unions. Yeah, I

18:36

remember when I was part of the Teamsters,

18:38

it was always like talk around what's

18:41

really going on with our pension funds, you

18:43

know, and will we really get

18:45

what we're promised when it comes time? What

18:48

are they using those monies for? And

18:52

it's been thought that at

18:54

certain points, some of

18:56

the unions used the

18:58

pension funds for nefarious

19:00

things. Yeah. Joseph

19:02

announced his candidacy on May 29th.

19:06

According to the New York Times,

19:08

he said Tony Boyle had shown

19:10

shocking ineptitude and passivity in

19:13

not pushing for safety reforms. He

19:15

also alleged that the administration was

19:18

riddled with fear. Okay. That's

19:21

probably not that out of the norm.

19:23

If you're going to run against someone,

19:26

it's really hard not to sling a little

19:28

mud. Now you want to be careful. You

19:31

don't want to sling too much, but

19:33

you have to point out why

19:35

this person is not the right

19:38

person for the job while at

19:40

the same time, you know, showing

19:43

the, your constituency why you

19:45

are. Yeah. Really fine line

19:47

to walk. It's a line that,

19:49

you know, even in politics, I

19:51

think gets crossed quite a

19:53

bit, you know, you

19:56

see some ads that they're just

19:58

brutal. I've seen some. local

20:00

ads, like in local elections.

20:02

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they are

20:04

just what I would consider over

20:07

the line. Now it's

20:09

not like that movie with, um,

20:12

Will Ferrell and Zach

20:15

Galifianakis, they're running against

20:17

each other. It's not that bad. It's a

20:19

funny movie. It is a funny movie. And

20:21

they had some ads that were aimed at

20:24

each other. Yeah. But yeah, some

20:26

of them are quite shocking to be honest

20:28

with you. And then to see the candidates

20:31

on stage later shaking hands and

20:33

you're thinking, did you see that

20:35

ad he put up against you? How

20:37

could you be shaking that person's hand right

20:40

now? He should be a socking him in

20:42

the mouth. You

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22:22

Books are sold. It

22:25

was said the Joseph Spam was

22:27

worried about his decision to run

22:30

for president. His. Son Chip

22:32

told Smithsonian. From. The

22:34

moment he announced his candidacy, We.

22:37

Were free booze from District

22:39

nine team would be actively.

22:41

For. Interesting way to say it

22:43

is, but a kind of falls

22:46

in line with in i think

22:48

some of the the things that.

22:51

The. Unions did back in the day. They

22:53

weren't always walking him straight, narrow,

22:56

The. I remember back in the day.

22:58

There. Was always talk and even

23:00

jokes about. Our. Local Union.

23:03

Been. You know, Mobsters,

23:06

Well. Dot are some of them actually were.

23:08

I'm sure I'm sure they were. So

23:10

even though they were afraid, the whole

23:13

family supported him. Josephs. Daughter

23:15

Charlotte took a leave from work and

23:17

moved on to help with the campaign.

23:20

It was a highly contentious

23:22

elect. The. Union Paper

23:24

published anti Jablonski propaganda

23:26

Boil seek really have

23:29

an extra one hundred

23:31

thousand ballots printed. To.

23:33

Stuff ballot boxes while

23:35

noom. Anything the when right? I

23:38

mean, this is like the stuff

23:40

of Tammany Hall back in the

23:42

eighteen Hundreds. or he doesn't surprise

23:44

me that it was happening, is

23:46

that It Was happening. And Nineteen

23:49

Sixty Nine. But. And away

23:51

some a little bit a dunce

23:53

them to drown feature the results.

23:55

You know it's got a hundred

23:58

and forty or. This. Guy. And

24:00

then 80 for this guy and people be like,

24:03

well, wait, we only have a hundred thousand members.

24:05

Yeah How do we how

24:07

do we have that many more votes? That is going

24:09

to be a problem. I do believe

24:12

Unsurprisingly Boyle won district 19

24:16

and on December 9th 1969

24:19

he was declared the winner of the election He

24:21

would be president of the United

24:23

Mine Workers of America for the

24:25

next five years Boyle

24:28

received over 81,000 votes

24:31

while Yablonsky received a bit less

24:33

than 46,000

24:35

per the New York Times, so it really

24:37

wasn't even that close now

24:40

there's no way that they could have used

24:43

all of those 100,000 bow. Yeah because Boyle

24:49

didn't even receive a hundred thousand votes

24:52

and maybe somebody was smart enough to to

24:54

realize Hey, you might

24:56

have printed that many but We

24:59

can't cast that man. Yeah, we can't do that Yablonsky

25:02

and his supporters suspected the

25:05

results were fraudulent on December

25:07

18th 1969

25:09

Yablonsky asked the Department of Labor

25:11

to investigate the election He

25:14

initiated five civil lawsuits against

25:16

the Union and federal court

25:19

Joseph's sons would carry on the

25:21

lawsuit after his death on

25:23

December 31st 1969

25:26

chip Yablonsky tried to call his father, but

25:28

he didn't answer He assumed his

25:31

dad was out for the evening But

25:33

he became concerned a few days later

25:36

when his dad didn't show up for

25:38

a swearing-in of elected officials

25:40

in Washington, Pennsylvania on

25:43

January 5th 1970 Kenneth Yablonsky Decided

25:47

to go to Clarksville to check on his

25:49

father. He discovered a horrific

25:51

crime scene Joseph his

25:53

wife Margaret and

25:55

his daughter Charlotte were dead. They

25:58

had all been shot multiple times.

26:01

Joseph was sprawled on the floor of a

26:03

bedroom. Margaret was found on the

26:05

bed and Charlotte was found

26:07

in another bedroom. It

26:09

seemed as though Joseph

26:11

was the only one who had woken

26:14

up during the night. Investigators

26:16

thought he was going to

26:18

grab one of two guns he kept in

26:20

the corner of his bedroom, but

26:22

he was killed before he could

26:24

get to it. I know

26:27

guns are a touchy subject.

26:29

People have differing opinions on

26:31

them, not only here in the

26:33

US, but definitely in other countries

26:36

where the laws are different. The

26:38

one thing I will say is if you are

26:40

going to own a gun for

26:42

protection, it's a good

26:44

idea to be able to get to it. Yeah, if

26:47

you need it, have it where you

26:49

can access it quickly enough. Joseph

26:51

was shot four or five times in

26:54

the head and torso. Charlotte

26:56

was shot twice in the head. News

26:58

outlets didn't disclose how many times

27:01

Margaret was shot. I'm just trying

27:03

to envision Kenneth walking

27:06

in and finding his dad and

27:08

mom and sister murdered. Yeah,

27:11

I think it's one of those things,

27:13

unless you've been through it, and hopefully

27:15

not many of us have, it's

27:17

pretty hard to comprehend what

27:20

that would be like. I mean, to my way

27:22

of thinking, if you walked

27:24

into a house of

27:26

someone you didn't know and you

27:28

saw this scene, it would haunt you

27:30

for the rest of your life. Yeah. But

27:33

when you're talking about immediate family

27:35

members, that's obviously

27:38

even rougher than anything. Okay,

27:41

maybe you couldn't justify it, obviously,

27:43

you don't want to justify it, but you

27:45

can say, I understand why whoever this

27:47

was took my dad out. But why

27:49

take my mom and my sister out? So

27:52

you're going down the path of assuming

27:54

that it has something to do with

27:56

the union and all of that.

27:58

Okay. I understand what

28:01

you're saying. Somebody had a problem

28:03

with him that wouldn't be right

28:05

to kill him. But if

28:07

they were intent on doing

28:09

so, why also kill, you know,

28:12

his wife and his daughter, the only

28:14

thing I can think of is you

28:17

have a person who's not

28:20

willing to take the chance

28:22

on leaving witnesses

28:24

behind who could

28:26

possibly identify him or

28:29

them or her or whoever it was.

28:31

And if it was the union, well,

28:34

it sends a loud message, doesn't it? Well,

28:36

it sends a message of don't mess with us

28:39

for sure. But think about

28:41

that tactic of intimidation

28:44

that has been used by organizations

28:48

for as long as you can think of. I

28:51

mean, the mob was great at that, right?

28:54

Sending messages, which

28:56

basically said, if you

28:58

do what this person did, whether it's

29:01

rat or, you know, whatever,

29:04

you're going to end up like this

29:06

person. The victims were

29:08

killed by 38 caliber bullets,

29:11

no matching gun or cartridges were found

29:13

in the home. So it appears to

29:15

be like a professional. Yeah. I

29:18

mean, I think you could make that

29:20

argument. I don't know that it

29:22

had to be, but if you're

29:24

assuming that the union had something to

29:26

do with it, well, then

29:28

they probably had somebody who was

29:31

pretty experienced take care

29:33

of this. Now, the

29:35

fact that no matching gun

29:37

was found, that makes sense, right?

29:39

The person's not going

29:41

to leave the gun behind on purpose.

29:44

No cartridges being found. That

29:47

makes me think this was most likely

29:49

a revolver. Number one, because it was

29:51

a 38, but also 1969. Yeah.

29:57

I'm thinking it was probably a revolver. The

29:59

family. The had been dead since December.

30:02

Thirty first. And from the

30:04

very beginning authority saw it more

30:06

than one person was involved. And

30:08

why would they think. Well. You

30:10

have three. The visuals right? New? probably?

30:12

wanna? Execute him. At

30:14

the same time. Said. You don't have anybody.

30:17

Xk being are calling.

30:20

For. Help. Or just in

30:22

general to control the situation. I

30:25

would think is what the authorities would. Suspect.

30:29

At least a couple of people.

30:31

To. Handle. Three. Individual.

30:34

Upon further inspection of the

30:36

house, the police saw that

30:38

the tires of Josephson Charlotte's

30:40

vehicles were slacks. And. The

30:43

phone lines were caught. The. Kind of.

30:45

Makes. You think even more that it was probably

30:47

professional. Well. Was definitely. Thought.

30:50

Out right? They didn't want to

30:52

take any chances that somebody was

30:54

gonna get out, jump in a

30:56

vehicle, and get away. and they

30:59

also wanted to make sure that

31:01

no one was gonna pick up

31:03

the phone. And. Call the

31:05

a gourd. Tony Boil

31:07

issued a statement from The headquarters

31:09

are you in Wu saying he

31:12

was shocked by the news and

31:14

the murders had no connection with

31:16

the union or the election. And

31:19

as an interesting same. So. You're

31:21

gonna have to come now and say

31:23

oh, I'm shocked by this. And.

31:26

Maybe even send condolences or

31:28

birds or to come out

31:30

right away. And. Definitively

31:33

say. That. The murders

31:35

had no connection with the Union or

31:37

the A Lot. No. Question is,

31:39

how does he even know that Ray. It.

31:42

Almost seems. Suspect that

31:44

he would offer that up. Boyle.

31:46

said pro the new york times i

31:49

do not know it this time what

31:51

caused the deaths of brother jablonski his

31:53

wives and his daughter but whatever the

31:55

cause the violent deaths of three members

31:58

of the year blonsky family can

32:00

only be called tragedy. As

32:02

president of the United Mine Workers,

32:05

I offer the fullest cooperation

32:07

to the authorities of all

32:09

facilities of our organization to

32:11

try to resolve the cause of these deaths.

32:13

And that's what you would expect somebody to

32:16

say, especially someone in

32:19

that, you know, very high up type

32:22

of position. It's the proper

32:24

communication. The federal

32:26

government got involved in the

32:29

case after the murders. Within

32:31

a month, investigators discovered the

32:33

embezzlement of union funds to

32:35

order a hit on Yablonsky.

32:38

So this statement

32:40

of, you know, these murders

32:43

had no connection to the

32:45

union or the election doesn't

32:47

seem to ring true, you

32:49

know, after this comes out, Washington

32:52

County DA, Jess Costa

32:55

appointed Philadelphia attorney Richard

32:57

Sprague as special prosecutor.

33:00

It was one of the largest investigations

33:02

in state history. In total,

33:04

nine people went to prison

33:06

for the murders. And one

33:09

of the reasons for this is

33:11

because the killers left behind so

33:13

many fingerprints that they were

33:15

arrested within day. So not the smartest

33:17

group. No. And, and, and does it

33:19

kind of maybe make you rethink whether

33:22

or not these were quote unquote

33:25

pro. Yeah, it does. You

33:27

know, it sounds like they, they did some of the things

33:29

you would think a pro would do, but

33:31

they didn't wear gloves or,

33:33

you know, anything like that. Another

33:36

main piece of evidence was a

33:38

paper in Joseph's home with an

33:40

Ohio license plate number on it.

33:42

It seemed like Joseph knew he

33:44

was being stopped before he

33:46

was killed and was trying

33:49

to gather evidence. Well, that kind

33:51

of makes sense. Since the authorities thought

33:53

there was more than one person, Maybe

33:55

they were being stopped and that's how they knew

33:57

that they were going to need more than one

33:59

person. They execute them

34:01

because. There. Were three of them. On

34:04

January Twenty First, Nineteen Seventy. The.

34:06

F B. I announced the arrest

34:08

of three men in Cleveland, Ohio

34:11

in connection with your Blonsky murders.

34:13

Thirty. Seven year old Paul

34:15

Eugene Gilly, twenty six year

34:17

old Claude Edward Zealots, and

34:20

twenty three year old Auburn

34:22

Wayne Martin. Both. Vili

34:24

and Margin had criminal records

34:26

involving shootings. Gilly.

34:28

Was previously arrested for

34:31

child non support. They.

34:33

Were charged with conspiracy to

34:35

interfere with an actual interference

34:38

with the rights of union

34:40

members by force and violence,

34:42

an obstruction of justice. Okay,

34:45

those are interesting charges because.

34:47

Your. Damn place. None of

34:50

them really. Involved. Murder

34:52

now? Yeah. Flawed. Edward

34:54

really was also charged with

34:56

transporting firearm said cross state

34:58

lines. Joe simply a Blonsky

35:01

lawyer said that Paul Eugene

35:03

Go had visited the family

35:05

home before the murders. Folks

35:07

looking for a job. But.

35:09

That he was really chasing the

35:12

house transfer out how to get

35:14

and. When. They got an

35:16

where where they have to. Go. To

35:18

get to the bedrooms met the layer that

35:20

lay of the house and all that. The.

35:23

F B I confirm the state. A

35:25

government attorney said Joseph was murdered

35:28

by the three men to keep

35:30

him from testifying before a Federal

35:32

Grand jury. That. Was investigating

35:34

the nineteen Sixty Nine elected.

35:37

Again, if we go back to what we

35:39

talked about early, What? Will some

35:41

people in power do? To. Keep

35:44

hold of that power. Anything.

35:47

Everything including. Murder.

35:50

In. Some case, On.

35:52

January Twenty second, the state

35:54

of Pennsylvania filed murder charges

35:56

against the three Descent. Saudis,

35:59

in theory charges were just

36:02

to kind of hold them while

36:04

they were maybe working up

36:06

the murder case? I think so. That

36:09

was kind of my thought. It's a

36:12

possibility. Keep you from disappearing. A

36:14

federal grand jury indicted Gilly,

36:16

Bealey, and Martin on January

36:19

29. The indictment named

36:21

two more co-conspirators, 29 year

36:24

old Annette Gilly and

36:26

22 year old James Charles Phillips,

36:29

the fourth man in the conspiracy. Apparently

36:32

the conspirators debated

36:34

different ways to kill

36:36

Joseph, such as putting

36:38

arsenic in his food or cigars,

36:41

shooting him in his car and sinking

36:43

it in a river, bombing his

36:46

house or car, luring him

36:48

to the front door and shooting him or

36:51

kidnapping his daughter and killing

36:53

him when he came to deliver

36:55

the ransom. Just wondering how those

36:57

conversations go. You know, do

36:59

they go out to a local bar,

37:02

restaurant, sit around? All right guys, how

37:04

are we gonna do this? And

37:06

they have all these different possibilities.

37:10

Is there somebody with a steno pad

37:12

who's making a pros and cons list

37:14

of each one? Right. How are

37:16

you going to decide what

37:18

is the best course of

37:21

action? And

37:23

have one of them done one of

37:25

these things before? Do they have the knowledge

37:27

or do they have like a buddy they

37:30

call up and say, hey, I think

37:32

we're gonna do this. How do

37:34

you actually pull this one off? I

37:36

mean, have a guy like the

37:39

three had and horrible bosses? Yeah. Jamie

37:43

Foxx go to a bar and

37:45

ask him how to pull it off. They

37:48

ultimately chose to shoot him at

37:50

close range because it was deemed

37:53

to be the most

37:55

likely method to succeed. And

37:58

okay, that makes a lot of sense. shoot

38:00

someone at close range. You

38:02

do have a better chance of

38:04

killing them. Sure, yeah. I mean, that's

38:07

just common sense. Your success rate's going to

38:09

be a lot higher. We look at some

38:11

of these other ones, right? Arsenic. Okay,

38:13

can you kill somebody with that? Sure.

38:16

Could they just get very, very sick and then

38:18

get better? Possibly. Bombing

38:21

his house or car. Okay, well now you got to

38:23

figure out how to make a bomb. And

38:26

we'll be strong enough that it will take him out, but

38:28

not take out the whole neighborhood. Kidnapping

38:31

his daughter. Well, there's a lot that

38:33

goes into a kidnap. Sure. Because then

38:35

you have to deliver a ransom. Then

38:38

he has the ability to reach

38:40

out to the authorities and everyone

38:43

knows it's the drop that's

38:45

the most dangerous part. Yeah. Annette

38:48

Gilly joined the conspiracy in July,

38:50

1969 and

38:52

borrowed the car that was used

38:54

to travel from Cleveland to Clarksville

38:56

to commit the murders. The

38:59

New York times reported that the murders

39:01

were planned in La Follette, Tennessee and

39:04

Beckley, West Virginia, located in

39:06

the 19th and 29th districts in the

39:10

UMW union, both

39:12

of which showed hostility

39:15

towards Yablonsky. And I found this

39:17

to be such a coincidence.

39:19

You know, La Follette, Tennessee, such

39:22

a small place. It is. That

39:25

my grandparents just happened to be from. I

39:27

spent a lot of time as a kid

39:29

in La Follette, Tennessee. And I spent

39:31

time there too. We talked about that before.

39:33

Yeah, which I do think is strange. It

39:35

is strange. Yeah. But you know where

39:37

you want to have these conversations? In places

39:40

like that where the local

39:42

union doesn't like jock

39:45

and you don't have to be your

39:48

conversations. Well, you're going to be

39:50

surrounded maybe by more people who

39:53

are sympathetic to what you're

39:55

trying to do. I still think, you know,

39:57

you want to limit it right to as

39:59

few. people as possible because

40:01

there's a chance that it gets

40:04

out, right? The indictment alleged that

40:06

Gilly purchased firearms before the murders,

40:08

including a .38 caliber

40:11

pistol and a .30 caliber

40:13

M1 Army carbine, which

40:16

were used in the murders. Starting

40:18

in October 1969, Gilly,

40:20

Veley, and Phillips made

40:23

what were called reconnaissance

40:25

journeys to isolate

40:27

Yablonsky. In November, the

40:29

three of them traveled to Lofotla to

40:31

meet with Annette Gilly in Persons Unknown.

40:34

Phillips backed out after he,

40:36

Gilly, and Veley broke into

40:38

Yablonsky's home on November 20th

40:41

to case the house. Now I

40:43

wonder how that went down because

40:46

you're privy to pretty

40:49

much all the information, right? But

40:51

you're telling the other guys, you know what? I

40:54

can't do this. Is there

40:56

a thought that you might be

40:58

in some danger? I think there's a

41:00

good chance, right? Because you are

41:02

aware of what the ultimate goal

41:05

is. According to

41:07

the indictment, Veley drove to Clarksville

41:09

on December 8th and spoke to

41:11

Yablonsky. Gilly and Veley

41:13

observed the house on Christmas Day. So

41:16

they really were stalking

41:18

him. Auburn Martin was recruited

41:20

by Gilly to replace Phillips on

41:22

December 29th, just two days before

41:24

the murder. Again, it goes back

41:27

to your question, right? How do

41:29

you broach this subject

41:31

with someone? Hey,

41:34

we got a murder planned. One

41:37

of our guys dropped out. You in? Yeah,

41:39

I don't know if it goes like that, but I see

41:41

what you're saying. I'm thinking it's like probably

41:43

going to some rallies and looking for that overly

41:47

upset individual like, I don't want

41:50

such and such to lead my

41:52

union. If that ever happens, I'll kill him.

41:55

You're like, okay, he's our

41:57

guy. On December 30th, the

41:59

net gilly. made arrangements to borrow

42:01

the car. And then finally on

42:03

December 31st, Gilly paid Martin $1,700 in Veely

42:05

$1,000 in cash. Seems

42:11

a little low, even back in 69. That

42:13

seems low. I'm also wondering why a

42:16

guy they just brought in is getting $1,700 in

42:18

Veely, who's

42:21

been in it from the beginning, he's getting a thousand.

42:23

And maybe it was because it was a rush job. They

42:26

needed this guy last minute. I don't know. I'm gonna pay

42:28

him a little bit more to get him. Might have to.

42:31

Despite all this evidence, investigators

42:33

still hadn't identified who exactly

42:35

ordered the hit and

42:38

where the money came from, but they

42:40

had a list of potential suspects in

42:43

February, three top officials of the

42:45

UMW were summoned before a

42:47

federal grand jury investigating

42:49

the murders. James Comets,

42:52

who succeeded Jablonski as chief

42:54

lobbyist, William Turnblazer, the

42:57

president of UMW district 19

42:59

in Albert pass, the

43:02

secretary treasurer of district 19

43:05

were all called to testify. Additionally,

43:08

Silas Huddleston, Annette Gilly's

43:11

father was also asked to

43:13

stay for questioning Silas was

43:15

president of a local assembly

43:18

in La Follette, Tennessee. I

43:20

did get a little worried, you know,

43:22

as I was researching this case, was

43:24

I going to get to the point

43:27

where one of my

43:29

relatives was mentioned or,

43:31

you know, my great, great, great,

43:33

you know, whoever. You

43:35

never know. It's such a small town. Yeah.

43:37

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43:41

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44:58

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45:00

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45:02

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45:05

in the execution of the murder. This

45:08

guy directed his own daughter in

45:10

the execution of the murder. For

45:13

the good of the union, in his mind. But

45:15

how many times have we talked about it, right? As

45:18

a father, you're supposed to be

45:20

looking out for your children.

45:22

Yeah. Not trying

45:25

to enlist them or help them to

45:28

execute a murder. That's

45:32

not your job. Don't do that. All

45:35

five co-conspirators were indicted by the

45:37

state of Pennsylvania on three counts

45:39

of first-degree murder on May 6, 1970.

45:43

James Phillips was not indicted

45:46

because he had been cooperating

45:48

with investigators and testified before

45:50

the federal grand jury. Always

45:52

going to be the one. Well, we

45:55

said he dropped out. But

45:57

he was probably pressured. sure

46:00

they threatened him with jail

46:02

time for whatever role he did

46:04

play. Yeah. I don't know that

46:06

he had a whole lot of

46:09

choices. Either testify

46:12

against some of these people as to

46:14

what you know, or spend

46:16

time in jail. Yeah. Your choice. On

46:19

June 23rd, 1971, Claude Veley

46:21

pleaded guilty to murder and

46:24

made a lengthy confession. The

46:26

following information was reported by the

46:28

New York Times. Part

46:30

of Veley's confession said Tony

46:33

was in a hurry and wanted the

46:35

job done and that Tony was

46:37

offering $5,200 for the murder. Beley

46:40

also said Tony got angry about

46:42

the delay, but officials

46:44

would not answer questions

46:46

about Tony's identity. Now

46:49

it's pretty hard not to think that

46:51

he's talking about Tony Boyle, but let's

46:54

face it, there are a lot of

46:56

people named Tony. A lot of Tony's

46:58

out there. Tony, Tony, Tony. That's

47:00

right. Hey Tony. Veley

47:03

claimed that Auburn Martin fired

47:05

the first two shots and

47:07

killed Charlotte Yablonsky. Veley

47:09

was supposed to shoot Joseph and

47:11

Margaret who were screaming in another

47:13

room. He pressed a button that

47:16

he thought would release the safety,

47:18

but he released his magazine instead.

47:21

Paul Gilly grabbed his gun and

47:23

fired one shot, but the weapon

47:25

jammed. Martin then came

47:27

over, stepped inside the door and

47:30

fired four times. Veley

47:32

took the weapon from Martin, reloaded

47:34

it, walked into the room and

47:37

shot Joseph two more times. So

47:39

again, you know, going back to

47:41

kind of the initial thought that,

47:44

Hey, we're probably dealing with some

47:46

real professionals here. Turns out

47:49

we are not. We are not. This

47:51

guy doesn't know the difference between the

47:53

safety and the mag release button. And

47:56

if they didn't have two guys there that night, and

47:58

if they didn't have multiple people. there that night, I

48:01

don't know if they would have been successful.

48:04

I also thought it was very

48:06

strange that Charlotte,

48:10

the daughter, was killed first. And

48:13

maybe it just speaks to

48:15

how inexperienced these people are.

48:18

Normally in this type of

48:20

scenario, you would see the

48:22

perpetrator go after the

48:25

most dangerous person first, which

48:27

in this case would be Jock. Yeah.

48:30

We already mentioned it, Jock had a couple of

48:32

guns in his room. I think that

48:34

would be your biggest threat. Why wouldn't

48:37

you want to address that right away? There's

48:39

a much bigger chance that he's going to

48:41

have a firearm than probably Charlotte, right? The

48:44

daughter. On November

48:46

12, 1971, 23-year-old Auburn Martin

48:48

was convicted of three counts

48:50

of first-degree murder. He

48:52

was the first defendant to go to trial. He

48:55

testified in his own defense and

48:57

denied any involvement in the murders.

48:59

He said that on December 30,

49:03

1969, he traveled with Claude Bely

49:05

and Paul Gilly to Clarksville, Pennsylvania,

49:08

for what he thought was a

49:10

burglary. He thought they were

49:12

after Yablonsky's $50,000 coin collection.

49:16

He was on the lookout and stayed

49:18

in a vehicle outside the home. He

49:20

claimed he learned about the murders when

49:22

he saw the news several days later.

49:25

He was warned not to say anything

49:27

because there were important people

49:30

backing the operation. They

49:32

also threatened his wife and killed her.

49:35

And, I mean, as defenses go, it's

49:38

not the worst one I've ever heard of, no. No,

49:40

it's hard for me to think that he's outside

49:43

the house in a car and doesn't hear all

49:45

these gunshots. Yeah, exactly. And

49:49

I think it's important for these individuals,

49:51

after committing the murders, come back to

49:53

the car and are acting

49:56

in a manner that would

49:58

equate to... A

50:00

theft versus killing three people.

50:03

Right. Like where's the

50:05

$50,000 in coins guys? I

50:08

just didn't go. We couldn't find them. Let's get

50:11

out of here. Auburn Martin was sentenced to death on

50:13

November 13. Paul Gilly

50:16

went to trial on February 22nd, 1972. Prosecutors

50:20

argued that Gilly was the

50:23

one who hired Claude Veely and

50:25

Auburn Martin to commit the murders. The

50:28

state relied on the testimony

50:30

of Claude Veely and former

50:32

conspirator James Phillips. Again,

50:34

Veely testified that Gilly

50:37

made arrangements with a man identified

50:39

as Tony. There was supposed

50:41

to be a $5,200 payment split three way.

50:47

All right Gibbs, do the math of that in

50:49

your head for me. Doesn't really add up, does

50:51

it? People, people, people, people. Not

50:54

a good division of monies. Okay,

50:56

you're not giving me an answer. I did. Not

50:58

a good division of money. Either

51:00

way, think about how

51:03

little, and again, it's 1969, so it's more money

51:05

than it would be

51:08

today. Yeah. But even then,

51:10

to murder three people

51:13

for 17 whatever it turns out to be, that's just,

51:20

it's hard to find. On

51:22

March 1st, 1972, Gilly

51:25

was found guilty of first degree murder.

51:27

The jury voted for the

51:29

death penalty the next day. So

51:32

that's two people involved.

51:34

Both found guilty, both sentenced to death. On

51:37

April 11th, 1972, Annette

51:40

Gilly pleaded guilty to

51:42

three counts of murder and one

51:44

count of conspiracy in exchange for

51:47

a life sentence. She really wasn't

51:49

involved directly with the murders,

51:52

not to the extent that these

51:54

other individuals were, but she

51:56

knew about it, right? She did participate

51:59

in the murder. the planning because

52:01

she was involved in getting the

52:03

car and she

52:05

was found to be pretty

52:07

much just as guilty as everyone else.

52:09

Now she got a life sentence and

52:12

not the death penalty. A prosecutor

52:14

came out and said they now had

52:16

evidence that would lead to more arrests.

52:19

Annette gave a 22 page statement

52:22

to the FBI revealing everything

52:24

she knew. Excerpts

52:26

were published by the New York Times. A

52:29

part of her statement said, my father

52:31

told me that no one in the

52:33

union was worried about Yablonsky winning the

52:35

election. My father stated that they

52:38

were afraid Yablonsky would gain control of

52:40

the pension fund and this was

52:42

the reason he had to be killed. Her

52:45

father hired her husband to kill

52:47

him and Paul Gilly

52:49

hired Auburn Martin, Claude Veely

52:52

and James Phillips, the conspirator who

52:54

backed out. The confession

52:57

continued when this murder was initially

52:59

set up. Paul and I

53:01

were not supposed to know that we

53:03

were dealing with anyone other than my

53:05

father. My father was supposed

53:07

to deal only with Bill Prater and

53:10

he in turn with Albert Pass.

53:13

Bill Prater was a field representative for

53:15

District 19. Albert

53:17

Pass, Secretary Treasurer of

53:19

District 19 and

53:22

a member of the UMW International

53:24

Executive Board. So now it's kind

53:26

of hitting home on the executive

53:28

level. Well, it's reached higher,

53:31

right? For sure. Annette said,

53:33

my father told me that the

53:35

Yablonsky murder had the approval of

53:38

the quote, big man. To

53:40

me, that meant Tony Boyle,

53:42

President of the

53:44

United Mine Workers. On

53:47

the day Paul was arrested, he told

53:49

her, if anything should happen to him,

53:51

I should remember the following four names.

53:54

Tyler Owens, Pass

53:57

and Prater. George Tyler was the VP.

54:00

P of U M W

54:03

John Owens was the secretary

54:05

treasurer. A lot of big

54:07

names being passed out. It is. It's, it's

54:09

almost got like a Watergate type feel to

54:12

it. Right. They're investigating,

54:14

they're investigating and the more

54:16

they do, the higher

54:19

they're getting up the chain of command.

54:22

Annette said, Paul Gilly met directly

54:24

with Albert pass and William Prater

54:27

and had obtained a promise from the union

54:29

that it would furnish him with a

54:31

high paying job upon

54:34

completion of this job.

54:36

Okay. So, you know, we

54:38

just talked about there was not a

54:40

lot of money involved. Now it was quite a bit

54:42

of money for 1969, but not enough money, you know,

54:45

to really

54:47

think that you would kill

54:50

somebody. But if

54:52

you add in this incentive

54:56

of, Hey, you know what? We're

54:58

going to get you a plus job. You're going to

55:00

be making a bunch of money. If you do this

55:02

thing for us, then maybe you

55:04

can see how the money wasn't the

55:06

biggest draw in the whole thing. When

55:09

Paul was arrested, her dad told her

55:11

the union would take care of me.

55:14

He told me that with the union, the

55:16

sky was the limit. Unless I

55:18

talked, then the grave was

55:21

the limit. Okay. If that's

55:23

not a threat, then I don't

55:25

know what is. Sounds like

55:27

a pretty big threat to me. Keep

55:30

your mouth shut and they'll take care

55:32

of you. Open it up and

55:34

they'll take care of you in a different, more

55:37

permanent way. Sounds like something

55:39

the mob used to say. Yeah. On

55:41

May 3rd, 1972, Silas

55:44

Huddleston also pleaded guilty to three

55:47

counts of murder. He admitted that

55:49

he directed and handled the payment

55:51

for the murder of Joseph Yablonsky

55:53

with what he believed was union

55:56

money. The money was given to

55:58

him by two UMW official. including

56:01

Albert Pass, a member

56:03

of the International Executive Board. So

56:05

we've known from the beginning, this was always

56:08

going to tie back at some

56:10

point to Tony Boyle. But

56:13

now we're getting into an area where,

56:15

you know, not only was

56:17

this a murder for hire, it

56:20

sounds like union funds

56:22

were used to

56:24

pay the murderers. Yeah, it's another

56:27

avenue for prosecutors to go

56:29

after the officials. Yeah, I mean, bad

56:32

enough that you want someone dead,

56:35

but you can't come out of your own pocket. You

56:37

have to use company money. He

56:40

said he never asked how

56:42

Tennessee UMW officials raised the

56:44

money, but he believed they

56:46

received checks from William Prater

56:48

from the Research and Information Fund

56:51

in exchange for his guilty plea,

56:53

he was promised a recommendation of

56:55

life in prison, but not a

56:58

guarantee. I think that just shows

57:00

you how powerful the difference is.

57:02

Yeah. That just

57:04

a chance at getting

57:07

life versus the death

57:09

penalty was enough to make

57:11

this guy spill everything. Just for

57:13

the hope. Just for the hope. Not even

57:15

a guarantee. Albert Pass was

57:17

arrested on May 2nd after

57:20

a grand jury indicted him

57:22

with conspiring to violate Yablonsky

57:24

civil rights and obstruction

57:26

of justice. William Prater was arrested

57:29

on April 12th on

57:31

federal charges and later indicted on

57:33

state charges for murder and conspiracy.

57:36

Investigators believed Albert Pass met

57:38

with Silas Huddleston and

57:40

William Prater to further the

57:42

conspiracy. And that pass gave a

57:45

picture of Yablonsky to Silas.

57:47

He allegedly instructed Prater to give Huddleston

57:49

$6,000 on March 31st, 1972. UMW

57:55

president Tony Boyle was convicted

57:57

of 13. of

58:00

conspiracy and making

58:02

illegal political contributions with union

58:05

funds. So a lot of top

58:08

people coming down, but the big

58:10

dog is now got

58:12

to answer questions too. Well, he was

58:14

convicted of a lot of

58:16

different charges, but none of these have

58:19

anything to do with murder. Right. At

58:21

this point, two other officials,

58:23

John Owens and James Comets

58:25

were acquitted of these charges.

58:28

Boyle faced up to 32 years in

58:31

prison and fines up to $120,000. He

58:35

was sentenced in June to five years

58:37

in prison and fined $130,000. Cut

58:41

off kind of light, but might have had some

58:43

influence. Well, he might have,

58:46

but again, none of this

58:48

was related to the

58:50

murders. I mean, obviously 13 counts

58:53

of conspiracy can't be good. Making

58:56

making illegal political contributions with

58:58

union funds, not good, but

59:00

it's not killing anyone. No,

59:03

but when something like that can carry up

59:05

to 32 years and

59:07

you slide away with five, I'm

59:10

assuming there were some favors

59:12

giving. Well, and I'm also

59:14

assuming he probably had really good attorneys

59:16

because he could afford them. Absolutely. Now

59:20

he did go up on the fine, which I

59:22

thought was strange. It said

59:24

the fines up to 120,000. Well,

59:26

they fined him 130,000 and maybe

59:29

that was part of it. You're going to get

59:31

less years, but a bigger fine,

59:33

but she probably didn't care about it. That's

59:36

okay. It's the union money. I'll

59:38

use the union money to pay it off anyway. On

59:41

July 17th, 1972, Albert

59:44

Pass and William Prater were indicted for

59:46

murder. That year, the

59:48

Department of Labor completed its

59:51

investigation of the 1969 election

59:53

and won the suit to

59:56

overturn the election. The

59:58

new election took place in December. And

1:00:00

Arnold Miller replaced Tony Boyle

1:00:02

as president. Well, you know,

1:00:05

somebody was going to have to replace

1:00:07

Tony Boyle because he's a convicted fellow.

1:00:10

Yeah, he's not going to be

1:00:12

the guy. He's gone for at

1:00:14

least five years. William Prater

1:00:16

went to trial in March 1973. Former

1:00:20

conspirator Paul Gilly made a confession at

1:00:22

trial. Gilly testified as quoted

1:00:25

by the New York Times. I was

1:00:27

told by Prater that Mr.

1:00:29

Yablonsky was trying to wreck and

1:00:31

destroy the union and its

1:00:34

pension funds, and they wanted him

1:00:36

killed. The prosecutor asked if

1:00:38

Prater said who wanted Yablonsky

1:00:40

killed. Gilly responded,

1:00:42

yes, sir, Tony Boyle. And

1:00:45

to me, you know, that's huge. It

1:00:48

is huge. I'm sure there

1:00:50

was a thought on the part

1:00:52

of investigators that, you

1:00:54

know, maybe this whole

1:00:57

thing originated with Tony

1:00:59

Boyle. We just need a way to have

1:01:01

him identified as the ringleader.

1:01:04

Yeah, and it sounds like

1:01:06

Paul Gilly did that. On

1:01:08

March 26, 1973,

1:01:10

William Prater was convicted of three counts

1:01:12

of first degree murder about

1:01:14

three months later on June 19, 1973. Former

1:01:20

UMW executive Albert Pence

1:01:22

was also convicted of

1:01:24

three counts of first degree murder.

1:01:27

So, you know, anyone involved in

1:01:29

this thing got convicted

1:01:31

of murder, regardless

1:01:34

of what their role was. Yeah,

1:01:37

I mean, I think the prosecutors

1:01:39

are definitely making a very large

1:01:41

statement, but

1:01:44

it's also a statement that I agree with.

1:01:47

You know, do you have to be

1:01:49

the one who actually pulls a trigger

1:01:51

to be convicted of murder? And the

1:01:53

answer is no. If you're involved in

1:01:56

the planning, if you pay

1:01:58

someone, I mean, Net arranged

1:02:01

for a car. Yeah, but you're all

1:02:03

involved in the conspiracy of it. So,

1:02:06

and you can make the argument that

1:02:08

at any point you could have

1:02:10

gone to authorities and said,

1:02:13

Hey, this is what's going down and

1:02:15

you could have saved potentially this family's

1:02:17

life. Yeah. I think you have to factor

1:02:20

that into account as well. On

1:02:22

September 6th, 1973, 71

1:02:25

year old Tony Boyle was arrested

1:02:27

and charged with murder. He was

1:02:30

arrested at a law office while

1:02:32

giving a deposition in a suit

1:02:34

against the UMW filed by chip

1:02:36

Yablonsky. I wonder if chip was

1:02:38

there when they were deposing him. How

1:02:40

sweet would that have been to see this individual

1:02:43

that conspired to have your dad

1:02:45

killed? Yeah, pretty sweet. I don't,

1:02:47

we don't know if he was there. He was

1:02:49

an attorney, but he also filed the lawsuit. So

1:02:52

I don't know if he would have been there or

1:02:54

not. A labor department official

1:02:56

said Boyle was believed

1:02:58

to be the highest ranking

1:03:00

American labor leader ever arrested

1:03:03

for murder that day. Special

1:03:06

prosecutor Richard spray disclosed

1:03:08

that William Turnblazer, the

1:03:10

president of district 19 made

1:03:13

a full confession in August that

1:03:16

implicated himself and Boyle

1:03:18

Turnblazer pleaded guilty to a federal

1:03:21

charge of violating Yablonsky civil rights

1:03:23

by conspiring to kill him. This

1:03:26

was separate from his state murder charge.

1:03:29

He would later testify that on June 23rd, 1969, Boyle

1:03:31

took him aside and ordered

1:03:36

the assassination of Joseph

1:03:38

Yablonsky. This occurred after

1:03:41

a meeting between Boyle and

1:03:43

Yablonsky at the UMW headquarters

1:03:46

ended in a shouting man. So

1:03:49

it sounds to me like Boyle was heated.

1:03:51

Yeah. You know, he and Jack

1:03:53

got into the shouting match. The

1:03:56

meeting didn't go well. He's

1:03:58

fired up. He pulls. this

1:04:00

turnblazer guy aside and says, kill

1:04:03

this SOB or something

1:04:05

to that effect. We need to make sure

1:04:07

he's gone. The arrest

1:04:09

warrant stated that Boyle initiated

1:04:11

and instigated a

1:04:14

plan to assassinate and murder

1:04:16

Yablonsky. Boyle secretly

1:04:18

told William Turnblazer and

1:04:20

Albert Pass that Joseph,

1:04:23

quote, ought to be killed or done

1:04:25

away with. Okay. I'm not sure what

1:04:27

the difference between those two are, but, uh, yeah,

1:04:30

it kind of sounds like the same to me. One, to

1:04:34

me, one is just a euphemism for

1:04:36

the other. Boyle

1:04:38

then diverted $20,000 in

1:04:40

union funds to

1:04:42

the two men to pay

1:04:44

three hired killers and two

1:04:47

intermediaries who directed their activities.

1:04:49

What if they kept some of that money? I

1:04:52

don't know, but you know, you can see kind

1:04:54

of what Boyle is doing. He's trying to insulate

1:04:56

himself. Sure. He is. He's got

1:04:58

multiple layers of people between

1:05:02

him and the murder

1:05:04

of Yablonsky. But he

1:05:07

had to tell one or more people

1:05:09

to get the ball rolling.

1:05:11

Yeah. And he also

1:05:13

probably had to be the one

1:05:15

to divert the funds. I

1:05:19

doubt everybody had that ability. So

1:05:22

when you do that, you know,

1:05:24

you're putting a lot of trust in these,

1:05:26

uh, these people that you're

1:05:28

confiding in because once

1:05:30

they start to talk, then your insulation

1:05:33

is gone. Yeah. You don't stand a

1:05:35

chance. At the time, Boyle

1:05:37

was still facing a five year

1:05:39

prison term for misusing UMW funds

1:05:42

and federal charges of conspiring

1:05:44

to violate Yablonsky's civil rights

1:05:47

on September 19th, 1973. The

1:05:50

first conspirator to be convicted.

1:05:53

Auburn Martin was sentenced to death. Tony

1:05:55

Boyle went to trial on April 1st, 1974 on April 12.

1:06:00

He was found guilty of three

1:06:03

counts of first degree murder

1:06:05

for ordering the assassination of

1:06:07

Joseph Yablonsky. Boyle's testimony

1:06:09

was contradicted by prosecution

1:06:12

witnesses. He got

1:06:14

on the stand and denied any knowledge

1:06:16

of the murders, saying the crime sickened

1:06:18

him. Well, and if he's going

1:06:20

to get on the stand, what else is he going to

1:06:22

say? He has to deny,

1:06:24

deny, deny. Yeah, he's not going to

1:06:26

be like, oh, that guy got what he

1:06:29

had coming to him. Now, the

1:06:31

problem is, by this point in

1:06:33

time, the prosecution had

1:06:35

so many people who

1:06:37

had already admitted their role. Oh,

1:06:39

yeah. They had a whole lineup of

1:06:42

witnesses who could basically contradict

1:06:45

anything that Boyle said. Boyle

1:06:48

started serving his three-year federal sentence

1:06:50

in December 1973. On

1:06:53

September 11, 1975,

1:06:56

Tony Boyle was sentenced to

1:06:58

three consecutive life terms. He

1:07:00

gave a brief statement telling the court, all

1:07:03

I can say is I'm innocent.

1:07:06

On September 3, 1976,

1:07:08

Paul Gilly and Claude Veely were

1:07:10

finally sentenced. Gilly was

1:07:12

sentenced to three concurrent life terms. Veely

1:07:16

received one life term with the

1:07:18

opportunity for parole. And at

1:07:20

first, I wondered why it took so long

1:07:22

to sentence these guys. But my

1:07:24

thought is they wanted to wait to

1:07:27

see the outcome of

1:07:30

Boyle's trial. Yeah. You know, could

1:07:33

there have been something in play where, hey,

1:07:35

we're going to need you to testify, and

1:07:37

if you do, instead

1:07:40

of death, you'll get life or, you know,

1:07:42

something along those lines. Make some type of

1:07:44

deal. Sure. You're never getting

1:07:46

out, but it won't be as bad. Auburn

1:07:49

Martin appealed to the Pennsylvania

1:07:51

Supreme Court, which vacated

1:07:54

his death sentence. He was granted

1:07:56

a delay in sentencing. In August 1970, the

1:07:58

court was sentenced to three consecutive life terms. P Silas

1:08:01

Huddleston and Annette Gilly were

1:08:03

granted probation and new

1:08:06

identities Because of their

1:08:08

cooperation with law enforcement and

1:08:10

that's where the Ferguson name comes in used

1:08:12

to be Huddleston. No,

1:08:15

but you know, you can see and some

1:08:18

people have issues with with some of these

1:08:20

things, but you can see what Prosecutors

1:08:23

have to do sometimes sure you

1:08:26

want to get the big fish and

1:08:29

they did They did they got

1:08:31

the guy at the very top who

1:08:33

ordered this whole thing, but

1:08:35

to do so Sometimes you

1:08:37

got to make a deal and some

1:08:39

people are gonna get off a

1:08:41

little bit light Now neither

1:08:44

one of these individuals pulled the trigger,

1:08:47

but they were very much involved especially

1:08:49

Silas They were sentenced to

1:08:51

two years in prison with ten years

1:08:53

probation But the judge waived

1:08:56

the prison terms because they

1:08:58

had already been in custody for more than four

1:09:00

years The judge also dropped

1:09:02

state murder charges against William

1:09:04

turnblazer that month He was

1:09:06

still serving five to fifteen

1:09:08

years on federal charges in

1:09:11

the Yablonsky case So

1:09:13

it does sound as though There

1:09:15

were a number of people who were

1:09:18

convicted of state charges

1:09:21

We either got them reduced

1:09:23

or got them dropped all together or

1:09:25

were let out, you know time served

1:09:29

Because of their cooperation right

1:09:32

Boyle started serving his life sentences

1:09:34

in April 1976

1:09:37

after he completed his federal sentence in

1:09:39

January 1977 he

1:09:42

was granted a new trial by the

1:09:44

Pennsylvania Supreme Court the court found

1:09:46

that Certain testimony was

1:09:49

improperly barred that might have

1:09:51

persuaded the jury that

1:09:53

other convicted UMW members

1:09:55

might have committed the

1:09:57

murders without Boyle's knowledge

1:10:00

So his retrial opened on January 29, 1978,

1:10:02

but the jury was not convinced of his

1:10:04

innocence. Tony

1:10:09

Boyle was convicted of three counts

1:10:11

of first-degree murder. On February 17,

1:10:13

1978, he received three life sentences on February

1:10:15

23. So

1:10:20

he ended up getting what he had anyway.

1:10:23

Yeah, I wonder what it's like to be

1:10:25

convicted of first-degree murder twice. Yeah. Now

1:10:28

to him, did it make any

1:10:30

difference? Maybe he

1:10:32

got to get out of prison. He got to go

1:10:34

to court. He got to do all that. And

1:10:37

he had the chance that maybe,

1:10:40

just maybe, a jury would see

1:10:42

it differently this time

1:10:44

around. They didn't. So

1:10:47

really no difference for

1:10:49

him. He had nothing to lose, I guess is

1:10:51

what I'm trying to get out. Or

1:10:53

I guess they could have given him the

1:10:55

death penalty maybe. But by that time, I'm

1:10:57

thinking, was it unconstitutional?

1:11:00

By 1978, I think it was. Could have been.

1:11:03

Tony Boyle died on May 31, 1985, at a hospital

1:11:05

in Pennsylvania. He

1:11:09

was 83 years old and still serving

1:11:11

his life since. He spent

1:11:13

his final months moving between a nursing

1:11:15

home and the hospital. William

1:11:17

Prater died in his prison cell on August

1:11:19

11, 1989. He

1:11:22

was 70 years old and had been in

1:11:24

poor health for a while. He served 16 years

1:11:28

in federal prison before he

1:11:30

was transferred to Pennsylvania in 1988. Auburn

1:11:33

Martin died of stomach cancer. On March 10, 1991,

1:11:35

he was 42 years old. 55-year-old

1:11:41

Claude Edward Veley died of brain cancer

1:11:43

on January 31, 1999. On

1:11:47

July 6, 2021,

1:11:50

Paul Eugene Gilly died of natural

1:11:52

causes at a hospital in Pennsylvania.

1:11:55

He was the last surviving assassin

1:11:58

and was still serving his life since. in

1:12:01

state prison. He had requested clemency

1:12:03

in the spring of 2021 after serving almost

1:12:05

50 years in prison.

1:12:09

He wrote in 2019, having

1:12:11

spent nearly 50 years in prison, I

1:12:14

can honestly state that in my heart, I

1:12:17

feel that anything I did on December 31,

1:12:19

1969 has been adequately paid for. Now, you

1:12:26

might think that, but the

1:12:28

surviving family members of the

1:12:30

Yablonsky family, I doubt

1:12:33

they're going to agree with you. And

1:12:35

I don't think the family would feel like that's justice.

1:12:38

I don't think most of the time, most families

1:12:40

would. I think a lot of times they don't

1:12:42

want to see anyone get out. They never

1:12:44

want them to be

1:12:46

free again, right? After committing

1:12:49

these types of crimes, the

1:12:51

observer reporter, a paper

1:12:54

for Washington County, Pennsylvania,

1:12:56

asked Chip Lebonsky for comment

1:12:59

about Gilly's death. He

1:13:01

simply said, good riddance. In 2019,

1:13:03

Smithsonian magazine

1:13:05

reported that the United Mine

1:13:08

Workers of America is

1:13:10

a shell of its former self.

1:13:12

Due to changes in the industry,

1:13:14

the US has moved away from

1:13:16

manufacturing and unionization

1:13:19

and the use of coal has declined. And

1:13:21

I don't know for sure, but

1:13:24

it seems as though just

1:13:26

kind of unions as a whole

1:13:29

are not nearly as big of a thing

1:13:32

as they were back in the 60s,

1:13:34

70s. I think there's been

1:13:36

a decline. So as we wrap this

1:13:38

one up in the murder

1:13:40

of Joseph Yablonsky, it's an

1:13:43

important part of the union's history.

1:13:45

The investigation exposed

1:13:48

widespread corruption, election

1:13:50

fraud, and put violent

1:13:53

people in prison for many years.

1:13:56

I mean, you know, if you think

1:13:58

about it, they cast a pretty Why

1:14:00

net? Yeah. And they

1:14:02

scooped up a bunch of people, including

1:14:06

ultimately the top dog,

1:14:08

Tony Boyle. By the way, I

1:14:11

am trying to start a podcast

1:14:13

co-host union. So

1:14:16

just putting you on notice. Okay.

1:14:19

Just trying, you know, what

1:14:21

are you looking for? More

1:14:23

safety regulations? Uh, yeah. Better

1:14:26

free meals. Uh, better quality

1:14:28

meals. Better free chairs. Just,

1:14:31

just let me know what

1:14:33

you'd want a desk, you

1:14:35

know, things like, things like that, you know,

1:14:37

I got you. I got you

1:14:40

a dictionary. I don't think there's

1:14:42

any doubt that there are a number of

1:14:44

unions that have had a checkered

1:14:46

past or at the very least, right? There

1:14:48

have been a lot of insinuations

1:14:50

that, you know, criminal activity

1:14:53

was kind of going on

1:14:55

behind the guise of the

1:14:58

union and maybe perpetuated

1:15:00

by people at

1:15:02

the very top of the union. There's

1:15:05

been talk about ties with the

1:15:07

mafia between the mafia and the

1:15:10

unions for years, I

1:15:12

guess the thing that grabbed me about

1:15:14

this case is he had this guy

1:15:16

in, in Tony Boyle, who

1:15:19

basically he would do

1:15:21

anything to keep hold of his

1:15:23

power. And I think there's a

1:15:26

lot of people out there like that. You know,

1:15:28

once you get that type of power, it

1:15:30

can be very intoxicating. Oh yeah. And

1:15:33

so, you know, people don't want to let it

1:15:35

go. Now, do most

1:15:37

people murder their rivals? No,

1:15:40

but does it happen? Absolutely.

1:15:42

But when you come down to it, it's a job.

1:15:45

It's a, it's an elected position, but

1:15:47

it's a job. I mean,

1:15:49

can you imagine murdering someone

1:15:51

because they're trying to take

1:15:53

your job? And I guess that's

1:15:56

a kind of a dumb question because most

1:15:58

people can't imagine murdering. anyone for

1:16:00

any reason, let alone for

1:16:03

their job. Some just seem so trivial

1:16:05

that it's just, it's almost hard to

1:16:07

believe that you're talking power,

1:16:10

millions of dollars and

1:16:13

money and power does something to people, to

1:16:16

some people. Well, it does something to

1:16:18

everyone, but for some people, you

1:16:21

know, it can make them do things

1:16:23

that maybe they wouldn't have done

1:16:26

otherwise had they never

1:16:29

tasted that type of power, money

1:16:31

lifestyle. But

1:16:34

that's it for our episode on

1:16:37

Tony Boyle. We've got some voicemails, Gibbs. You

1:16:39

want to check those out? Let's hear them. Turkey

1:16:42

and Gibby. Holy crap. So

1:16:44

let me tell you guys,

1:16:48

fairly new to the podcast world. You

1:16:51

guys were one of the first podcasts

1:16:53

I listened to and kind

1:16:55

of fell in love with the whole thing. First

1:16:58

of all, let me say, Gibby, you're

1:17:01

the most humble, contrite, respectable

1:17:05

man. I think I've ever heard of. You're

1:17:08

so accomplished. You've literally done everything,

1:17:11

been involved in everything. Yet you

1:17:13

let Fergie run the show. I

1:17:15

mean, that's really, really touching. Hey,

1:17:19

on a more personal note, I

1:17:22

want to thank you guys for all your hard

1:17:24

work and everything that you do. In

1:17:27

the last two years, as

1:17:29

I've been listening to your podcast,

1:17:31

I have been walking and

1:17:33

as I listen to the podcast and I'm down

1:17:35

130 pounds. So

1:17:39

you guys give me motivation and

1:17:41

you're freaking hilarious and I love you and

1:17:44

have a beautiful day and keep your own

1:17:46

time ticking. Oh, awesome

1:17:49

voicemail and congratulations, man. 130

1:17:51

pounds. That

1:17:53

is awesome. That is awesome. Now

1:17:56

I know Gibbs, you're going to want me

1:17:58

to explain some of those. words he used

1:18:00

to you and I will do so later

1:18:02

off the air. But he said a

1:18:05

lot of nice things about you. Yeah. And I'm

1:18:07

very humbled. You just looked at

1:18:09

me so, uh, inquisitively. I

1:18:11

could tell that, uh, not

1:18:13

all those words kind of,

1:18:15

uh, stuck. I know each and

1:18:17

every one of them. No, but it was, it

1:18:19

was a great voicemail and you, and

1:18:21

you are incredibly nice to let me

1:18:23

do all this work. I am

1:18:25

nice. You're welcome. Hi

1:18:27

guys. I've been listening to your podcast

1:18:30

for, I don't know how many years now. Seems like

1:18:32

it's been a lot, but I just

1:18:34

wanted to weigh in on the Melissa

1:18:36

McNana. I'm not sure if I'm saying that right

1:18:38

case where she,

1:18:41

she had her baby

1:18:43

killed and it's thrown in the river. I

1:18:46

don't know. When I was a kid, I

1:18:48

was, I forgive my kids for a lot

1:18:51

of weird stuff because I feel like I

1:18:53

was a weird kid. I

1:18:55

mean, I think all of us do weird

1:18:58

things, but that, I,

1:19:01

I think that she served a good sentence

1:19:03

for what she did. I'm glad that she

1:19:05

got that much, but

1:19:07

being only 16, I feel

1:19:11

like she possibly just

1:19:14

wasn't grown up enough to make a good

1:19:16

decision. And

1:19:18

that's a pretty big, horrible thing

1:19:20

to do and I'm not excusing

1:19:22

it whatsoever. But the

1:19:25

same time, I think that kids

1:19:28

just aren't fully formed enough to make a

1:19:30

decision and

1:19:32

though that's a bad one, I do think she did her

1:19:34

time and that was

1:19:37

a really good episode. Thanks guys a lot. Keep

1:19:40

your own time ticking. All

1:19:42

right. Thanks for the voicemail. I will say

1:19:44

this Gibbs, that episode is

1:19:46

one that has stayed with me

1:19:49

because I don't know about

1:19:51

you, but I had such a hard time kind

1:19:54

of reconciling her age. I think

1:19:56

she was what, 16 years old,

1:19:58

her troubled. background

1:20:01

versus this really horrible thing that

1:20:03

she did. And, you know,

1:20:07

where, what line, where's

1:20:09

the line of, you know,

1:20:12

you want to condemn this thing that

1:20:14

she did, but, and you don't want to let

1:20:16

her off the hook. But, you know,

1:20:18

I almost felt like maybe I, we

1:20:21

came off too harsh in some aspects

1:20:24

of that episode, but it's really hard

1:20:26

to kind of figure out

1:20:28

where that line is. Yeah. And, you

1:20:30

know, coming off the research at the

1:20:32

time, you get fired up about

1:20:35

it. And then, you know, you

1:20:37

look back afterwards and you thought, ah, maybe

1:20:40

I wish I hadn't said this or

1:20:42

hadn't said that. Sometimes that happens to

1:20:44

us sometimes, but we appreciate

1:20:46

the voicemail, but that, that has stuck with

1:20:48

me. We had a couple of things

1:20:50

in the mailbag. Mom7x, who

1:20:53

we gave a new

1:20:55

Patreon shout out to, sent

1:20:58

you and a ton of Twizzlers. Oh

1:21:00

yeah. Twizzlers, like I've never seen. This

1:21:02

was a huge bag of

1:21:05

individually wrapped nibs

1:21:07

is what they're called. Yeah. Like

1:21:09

the little bite size Twizzlers. She

1:21:11

also sent me a big Jack Link's

1:21:14

sampler pack. Yeah. So I'm very excited

1:21:16

about trying all of those. A lot

1:21:18

of eating going on. There's a lot

1:21:20

of eating. And then Patrick Bruno sent

1:21:22

us in some cool stuff that he

1:21:24

said was for crime con. He even

1:21:26

sent more some stuff. Really? Yeah. He

1:21:29

sent us each a key chain and

1:21:31

each one had one of the three

1:21:33

different logos on it. Okay. And

1:21:36

he sent magnetic name plates with

1:21:38

the logos of the shows that

1:21:40

we each do. So like mine

1:21:42

has all three. Yeah. Yours has

1:21:44

two. Morph has criminology and a

1:21:46

little zodiac sign. Okay. Yeah. It's

1:21:48

really cool. It is cool. And

1:21:50

then he also sent me like

1:21:52

this really neat metal

1:21:55

Kentucky wildcat placard, like

1:21:57

little sign, it has

1:21:59

my. Name on it and the number one so

1:22:02

I'm very excited about that number one with a space next to

1:22:04

it So you can add the real number

1:22:07

no because I'm number one. Oh, okay

1:22:09

as far as you know, Kentucky Wildcats Like number

1:22:11

one fan. You are the number one

1:22:13

fan, but Appreciate it very much.

1:22:15

There's a lot of thought that went in. Yeah,

1:22:18

and and I did appreciate very cool So

1:22:20

that is it buddy for another episode of

1:22:22

true crime all the time. So for Mike

1:22:24

and Gibby stay safe and keep your own

1:22:26

time ticking You

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