0:18

Welcome to Travels with Jim and Rita . With

0:25

Jim and Rita , I'm your host , jim Santos , and in this podcast series you can follow along as my wife

0:27

Rita and I work out our crazy plan to outfox the real estate market in the US

0:30

and actually increase our retirement nest

0:32

egg by spending the next three years

0:34

or so living abroad and exploring the world

0:36

. Are we bold , forward-thinking

0:38

pioneers or just plain nuts ? Let's

0:41

find out together , shall we ? Hello

0:53

everybody and welcome . I'm Jim here with

0:55

my lovely wife Rita and you're listening to

0:57

Travels with Jim and Rita . Well

1:00

, we're finishing up our stay in Mexico . In

1:03

fact , as this episode airs , we'll be packing

1:05

our bags and getting ready to spend most of the following

1:07

day traveling back to Knoxville for some

1:09

doctor's appointments and to tie up a few loose ends

1:11

. We've packed a lot into

1:13

this last week in San Miguel de Allende and

1:16

there will be at least one other podcast episode recorded

1:18

here to follow . We'll also take

1:20

some time to go over our impressions of Mexico

1:23

in general and San Miguel in particular and

1:25

catch you up on the nuts and bolts of our plan to explore

1:27

the world while growing our nest egg . But

1:30

that's in the future . This week we

1:32

made another trip to the incredible Tuesday Market

1:34

here and , if you're interested , you can see some pictures

1:37

and video on our YouTube channel or

1:39

on my blog at jimsantosbookscom

1:41

slash blog . We also managed

1:43

to meet up with a couple of special people here this week

1:46

, and you're going to hear from one of them today . Phyllis

1:49

Gordon has been living in Mexico for over

1:51

20 years , most of that time here

1:53

in San Miguel de Allende . We

1:56

were lucky to meet her while having dinner with friends

1:58

and even luckier to get her to agree to

2:00

appear on the show . You

2:03

know , one of the best parts of slow travel is

2:05

that you have time to meet interesting people

2:07

. It's amazing

2:09

how quickly bonds can form between strangers

2:12

who share a common love of travel and exposure

2:14

to new cultures . Although

2:16

we've only spent a few hours with her , we

2:18

feel a closeness that's difficult to explain to

2:20

those who have not experienced how the shared love

2:22

of travel can bring people together . She's

2:25

lived a fascinating life and she's also the

2:27

designer of Flirt Skirts , her

2:30

own line of bespoke clothing . She

2:32

joined us at our Airbnb to talk about her

2:34

experiences here in this recorded interview

2:36

. Now , it's been very

2:38

warm here in Mexico , although the temperature has

2:40

come down out of the 90s the last few days

2:43

. So when we chatted with Phyllis here

2:45

in our Airbnb all of the windows

2:47

were open . So sorry in advance

2:49

for the bird songs and occasional firecrackers

2:51

, church bells etc in the background

2:53

. Just makes it more authentic

2:55

, right ? At any rate

2:57

, here's our interview with our new friend , phyllis

2:59

Gordon . Phyllis

3:02

, welcome to Travels with Jim and Rita and thanks

3:04

for agreeing to speak with us today .

3:06

It is really a pleasure to meet you both and

3:08

to have some time with you .

3:10

I understand from our friends that you've been in Mexico for

3:12

quite a while now , correct ?

3:13

Over 20 years . 20 years Full

3:15

time .

3:16

And was that all in San Miguel de Allende

3:18

?

3:18

Nope , I started off in Puerto Vallarta

3:21

on an adventure . Knew

3:23

I was going to end up here somewhere , just

3:26

wasn't sure where . Yeah , wow

3:28

.

3:28

Let's go back a little bit . When did you first start

3:30

thinking about living abroad ?

3:32

Didn't , didn't , I'm sorry

3:35

. I really didn't . It was kind of a

3:37

spur of the moment thing . I

3:44

gave it no thought , no planning , absolutely nothing . I gave three days'

3:46

notice at my job , jumped on

3:48

a plane and went to Puerto Vallarta

3:50

without knowing anything

3:53

or anyone . So you knew you were

3:55

going to move there . I knew I was going to stay

3:57

in Mexico somewhere , okay .

3:59

Had you been to Mexico before ?

4:01

I had been . I had visited Vallarta

4:03

before , but just a vacation kind

4:05

of a thing . But , fell in love with the Mexican

4:07

culture immediately .

4:09

Had you done travel to any other countries ?

4:11

Just very little the

4:14

UK . That's all I've ever done

4:16

besides Canada and Mexico

4:19

. Those are quite different .

4:21

Yes , quite different and lovely . So

4:24

where were you living when you decided to

4:26

move to Mexico ?

4:26

Los Angeles , los Angeles . I had been there for

4:29

close to 20 years

4:31

as well , and it was

4:34

time for a change . So that's almost a Mexican

4:36

culture Almost yes , and in my

4:38

neighborhood I did learn to speak Spanish .

4:41

So you did have some language before you moved .

4:42

Just a little . Just enough to

4:44

get by , but I

4:46

needed a lot more .

4:48

When you moved , obviously 20 years ago

4:51

, you were a much younger person and still working and everything

4:53

. How did you support yourself when you first came

4:55

to Nice ?

4:55

and Fun , I ended up finding work

4:58

. I was fortunate

5:00

enough that when I did get to San

5:02

Miguel , enough

5:07

that when I did get to San Miguel , I fell into a job situation

5:09

in an antique store that was owned by a family from San Luis

5:12

Potosi . They had beautiful , beautiful things

5:14

. This was back in about 2003

5:17

, 2004 . They

5:19

had an enormous store and great

5:22

inventory , really just

5:24

tons of antiques

5:27

religious icons , santos

5:30

for tableaus , colonial

5:32

furniture you've been in a few stores like that

5:34

.

5:34

Yes , there are still a few .

5:36

This one is operating more

5:38

out of the Lotus in Calco okay

5:41

so they don't have a presence here in San Miguel

5:43

. so I started there and

5:46

it's probably the best education I've ever had , learning

5:48

all about the history of Mexico

5:51

and the furniture and the antiques and the

5:53

retablos . It was really a lovely

5:55

situation and I started there

5:57

and that was the first job . Well

6:01

, it took me . I

6:03

had some clients from

6:05

Puerto Vallarta that

6:07

I had not known before . They owned a restaurant

6:09

on the beach and he was an interior designer

6:12

. They had a design

6:14

showroom in Vallarta , in the

6:16

old town . So

6:18

they would come twice a year to San Miguel

6:21

to buy antiques and such to take back

6:23

to Puerto Vallarta to sell in their business

6:25

. So I met them and on

6:27

a couple of occasions when they would come they would

6:29

say why don't you please come back to Vallarta and

6:32

run our show ? And

6:34

one day they just caught me and

6:36

it was like okay , and

6:38

so I went back and it was

6:40

a really wonderful decision

6:43

I made because I was only in Vallarta the first

6:45

time for a short amount of time and hadn't

6:47

really connected with much of anything

6:49

, and this led me to

6:52

a whole new adventure .

6:54

There's two very different places in San Miguel and

6:56

Puerto Vallarta .

6:58

You're not kidding , and

7:00

I really love the

7:02

beach . I like being close

7:05

to the water , right , and I'm not sure

7:07

how familiar you are with Vallarta

7:09

, but the expanse

7:11

of that bay is

7:13

breathtakingly beautiful from wherever

7:15

you are in Vallarta . It's just , it's

7:18

incredible . So I do love

7:20

being close to the water , but San

7:24

Miguel usually is a lot more comfortable

7:26

weather-wise than Puerto

7:28

Vallarta Totally different .

7:30

Yeah , we've been suffering through a bit of a heat wave .

7:33

Quite a bit of a heat wave . It's going on almost

7:35

a month now .

7:36

I think it's our fault . I think we brought it here .

7:37

I think it is too . Well then , I'm ready for you to leave

7:39

. Yeah , we brought it here from Playa del Carmen , oh

7:41

yes , unless you want to bring us some rain

7:44

real quick .

7:44

Yeah , Actually , when we were in Panama

7:47

in January , February and a little bit of March

7:49

, they had unseasonally warm

7:51

.

7:52

So it was you guys .

7:53

So it was just us .

7:54

Okay , we're done with that . My Lord , it's following

7:56

us . It is , that is true .

8:07

Because it has been a longer heat wave for us and the highest temperatures

8:09

we've ever experienced consistently , and because most

8:11

of these properties do not have air conditioning or heaters , or heaters , or the winters

8:13

, do you ?

8:14

need heaters . I have lived without

8:16

a heater . I'm someone who likes

8:18

to sleep in a cold room Okay , but

8:21

the mornings and our winter I

8:23

mean , if you can call it that really only lasts

8:25

about six weeks and

8:27

we don't get Chicago cold by

8:30

any means . You don't have snow . No , I've

8:33

experienced snow here one time in all

8:35

the years I've been here . So yeah

8:37

, no air conditioning .

8:38

Given how much you love the beach . What was it that

8:40

brought you back to San Diego ?

8:42

Okay , well , I was given an opportunity

8:46

. It

8:48

was really an interesting situation that brought

8:50

me back . The businesses

8:52

were slowing down in Vallarta at this particular

8:55

time , which was around 2011

8:58

, 2012 it was falling

9:00

off a little bit and I

9:03

had met a friend here

9:05

before I went to Vallarta

9:07

, a very good friend from Louisiana also , but

9:09

we only met one another here . He

9:12

had built himself a really lovely house . He

9:14

was suffering from a very rare eye disease

9:17

, so San Miguel was getting harder and harder

9:19

for him to navigate

9:21

, and he was single . Navigate

9:24

and he was single . And so

9:27

one day I got a phone call in Vallarta

9:29

and Mark said

9:32

I have a proposition for you . It's

9:34

like I'm all ears . And he

9:36

said I can no

9:38

longer navigate San Miguel , and I'm

9:41

considering going back up to Louisiana

9:43

. I don't need to sell my

9:45

house I'm not really sure what I wanna do with

9:47

it but I'd like for you to come live in it

9:49

. I would like

9:51

to pay you to live in it

9:53

and cover the expenses

9:55

, and this was a really

9:57

lovely 4,000 square foot house

9:59

on 770 square

10:02

meters of garden Wow . So

10:05

I hung up the phone and ran

10:07

over here as fast as I could .

10:08

Reluctantly agreed .

10:10

Was it near Centro

10:12

? It was . It was right off of the Ancha

10:14

. As you're going

10:17

up the Ancha , the

10:19

left-hand side is the Instituto . If

10:21

you continue going up , there

10:23

is a pravada on the right which is Bay Instituto . Right If you

10:25

continue going up , there is a probata on the right which is Bayonetta

10:29

, and it was on this little dead

10:31

end street . That's wonderful , it was wonderful

10:33

.

10:34

Well over that time , there's

10:36

certainly not a lot that large

10:38

right now in the area that you described . You

10:40

must have seen a lot of changes .

10:42

Oh my gosh , it's

10:45

hard the changes I've seen

10:47

because I moved to San

10:49

Miguel . I had never heard of it

10:51

. Oh okay , I was in Vallarta

10:55

. I was studying Spanish with

10:57

this really lovely Mexican girl

10:59

whose family lived in the

11:01

Idubato area and

11:03

also in the San Miguel area

11:05

. Family

11:08

lived in the Idubato area and also in the San Miguel area , and one day

11:10

she woke up and decided she was tired of Vallarta and was going to move to . San

11:12

Miguel . And when she told me this that she would , our

11:14

Spanish lessons would be discontinued

11:17

I said where are you going ? And she said San

11:19

Miguel de Allende . I said great me too . And she said , oh , you like

11:21

it . I said great me too

11:23

. And she said , oh , you

11:25

like it . I said never heard of

11:27

it , I just knew , you

11:29

know , this is an opportunity to go check someplace

11:31

out . As it turns out

11:34

, she did not make the move and

11:37

so I came and at that time

11:39

like I said , about 2002

11:42

, it was a tiny , dusty

11:45

little town where you

11:47

actually saw burros working

11:50

every day , like

11:53

several different little trains of

11:55

burros you would encounter every

11:57

day . There was absolutely nothing

11:59

. It was a

12:01

better experience back then , because

12:04

now it appears it's all about tourism

12:06

and it wasn't even a UNESCO World Heritage

12:09

Site back then , so it wasn't on the

12:11

map and I kind of had left

12:13

Vallarta , also because

12:15

living in a tourist city

12:18

, We've done that before .

12:19

I bet you have .

12:20

It really kind of kills it for you and

12:23

I'm sorry to say that's what has

12:25

happened here . It's kind of what's

12:27

happened . Have y'all heard of

12:29

Dia de los Locos ? It's

12:31

a very big fiesta here . It

12:33

starts it's during the month of June

12:35

and it is the the

12:38

month of June . They celebrate San

12:40

Antonio , Okay , the

12:43

whole little area and the saint

12:45

. The day itself is the 13th

12:47

of June and whatever

12:49

Sunday falls closest to that they

12:52

do this enormous parade

12:54

and it is one of the greatest things

12:56

you could ever see , because it's like a much

12:58

more humbler version of

13:01

Mardi Gras . Way back when

13:03

they have groups , they don't call them crews

13:05

like they do at Mardi Gras . Way back when they have groups , they don't call them crews like they do at Mardi Gras , but

13:08

they are different civic groups , they're different

13:10

neighborhoods and they all

13:12

plan their costumes

13:14

around a particular theme . I think

13:17

there were 3,000 participants

13:19

in the parade last year

13:21

and these are the most fabulous costumes

13:24

, the greatest imagination they

13:26

make their costumes they are not buying

13:28

these Apple from Amazon or whatever

13:30

. So lots of paper mache and

13:32

just ideas and creativity

13:34

. That is amazing

13:37

. Now it's . It goes on

13:39

and on and on , and it's usually the hottest day

13:41

of the year and and they will be dressed in

13:43

these costumes with these big hands

13:47

as well . Supposedly last year , 100,000

13:50

people were here to win .

13:52

Now , if you can imagine that's a lot of people in these little streets

13:54

.

13:54

Yeah , it's a lot . So it's

13:56

we're seeing the same thing . People

13:59

come here . Well , there's fiestas in

14:01

San Miguel , more in this city

14:03

than any other city in Mexico .

14:04

Well , we've seen parades just about every time

14:07

. Yeah right , We've enjoyed it People drumming

14:09

and dancing .

14:10

It is awesome .

14:12

Yeah .

14:12

Yeah , but there is , so it's drawing

14:15

more and more tourism and

14:17

such .

14:18

But yeah , well , I tell you , those parades

14:20

during New Year's and

14:23

right before the

14:25

beginning of Lent , yeah , oh

14:27

, my goodness , when those people

14:29

descended on the beach I

14:31

know it's just so

14:33

many people I mean

14:35

they were able to take care of

14:38

it , but the trash after they

14:40

left .

14:40

I remember Semana Santa in Puerto Vallarta

14:43

. It was just a mess , yeah .

14:45

And it would take a week for

14:47

the town to recover that

14:49

is something we've noticed here , despite the

14:52

number of people here . It's very clean

14:54

.

14:54

The town is very clean and people really . When

14:57

you go out in the morning , the first thing you see are people sweeping

14:59

out of their homes , washing down the sidewalks

15:02

.

15:02

And they take pride in their work . Yes

15:04

, I mean it's wonderful

15:06

to see . Have you been to Mexico City

15:09

? No , no , it's even cleaner

15:11

. It's on the list , really it

15:13

is , it is . It's

15:16

such an enormous city . I look forward to y'all visiting

15:18

.

15:18

Mexico City .

15:19

Now Buenos .

15:19

Aires we have been

15:22

is immaculate .

15:24

Isn't it ? That's hard

15:26

to imagine .

15:27

With the changes you've seen here , do you think you're

15:29

kind of falling out of love with Senegal

15:31

? Are you thinking about moving to another location

15:33

?

15:34

I have lost a lot of that

15:36

love that I started off with

15:38

here . I've become disenchanted

15:42

and

15:46

I understand the newcomers and when they get here here , how they fall in love immediately

15:48

because it is gorgeous , it is

15:51

wonderful , usually the climate

15:53

okay , we really do

15:55

enjoy a lovely climate . I

15:58

don't see myself going anywhere , but

16:00

I'm open to any changes

16:02

. But I don don't and that's how and

16:04

that is how I live my life . I mean , as

16:06

you can see , something comes

16:08

up and it's like , ah

16:10

, okay , I like that .

16:11

So if we run , across a 4,000 square foot home

16:13

in Bavaria , you'd be interested ?

16:16

Right , exactly , why not ? I

16:18

mean that was , and I

16:20

ended up selling that house

16:22

out from underneath myself . That , and I ended up selling that house out

16:24

from underneath myself . That was one of the craziest things I've ever done . I

16:26

could probably still be in it today

16:29

, but the market was heating up

16:31

here in San Miguel and I

16:33

just thought well , let's just

16:35

, mark , are you interested in just seeing

16:38

? And he came up with a price

16:40

after I was told what it could go

16:43

for . And

16:46

he said I have nothing to lose by putting it on the market , but

16:48

I'm not going to take one cent

16:50

less than my asking

16:52

price , so don't even come to me with these

16:54

bids and these offers .

16:56

And he sold it for more well

16:58

, I assume when you first got here , there

17:01

also was not a big expat presence in

17:04

the area .

17:05

There wasn't . It was okay

17:07

. Let me see if I can qualify this real quickly

17:09

. When I decided to come here , I

17:12

was so enchanted and

17:14

curious about the culture

17:16

in this country . What little

17:19

I had seen of it had absolutely changed my

17:21

life . It just opened my eyes . It

17:23

brought more color into my world . It

17:26

was just fascinating to me and so

17:28

I came for

17:30

that reason . I

17:32

didn't come to stretch

17:34

my retirement dollars and

17:37

make them go further . I didn't come

17:39

to have an American lifestyle

17:42

. I'm very fortunate

17:44

in where I live in San

17:46

Antonio , For about

17:48

at least a four block

17:50

radius . I know every one

17:53

of my neighbors . I've been in every one of their

17:55

houses . I do my best to

17:57

speak the language , so it was a

17:59

cultural thing that brought me here

18:01

. What has happened over the years

18:04

is a lot of expats

18:06

coming to stretch their retirement

18:08

dollars and have a different experience than

18:11

life in the United States . I

18:13

get it , I understand . It's not so

18:16

much like that anymore because of the dollar

18:18

and the peso , but a

18:20

lot of expats that

18:22

go to foreign countries have

18:24

a tendency to complain . Yeah , oh

18:26

yeah , oh God . So I

18:29

try . I really don't participate that much

18:31

in the expat community , right

18:33

, of course I have my own business

18:35

and so it does , you know , feed into

18:37

that customers yeah , but

18:39

if you're living in a foreign country

18:41

, yeah , you're gonna borrow

18:43

a city . Okay , embrace

18:46

it and don't complain . And if you

18:48

have a complaints , then maybe go back to where

18:50

you're from , because

18:53

it's not . It's different here . It's

18:55

not better , it's not worse , it's not . It's different here . It's not better

18:57

, it's not worse , it's

18:59

just different .

19:00

It's a different culture that's why we travel

19:03

is to see things that are different . I

19:05

love you guys for doing this .

19:07

I'm so envious of your lifestyle we

19:09

enjoy it and

19:12

honestly I know people think we're

19:14

crazy , but every place we go we

19:17

can live here .

19:18

Yeah , I understand that . I

19:20

do . I absolutely do .

19:22

Well , part of that is that Rita was a realtor for 32

19:24

years , so she can't go to the bathroom without

19:27

looking at real estate possibilities around her .

19:29

Okay , the truth is out . That's

19:31

what I made the most money in my life

19:33

was the properties I had listed

19:36

my own . You know , right , the most money in my life was the properties

19:38

I had listed my own .

19:38

Right , right , so it's so

19:41

we walked down the street and oh , that one's for sale .

19:43

And my dad was a developer .

19:46

Maybe we just haven't been here long enough to see

19:48

it or haven't seen it in enough areas , but

19:50

although there is a big expat presence , it

19:53

seems more blended with the community than

19:55

in some other places that we've been . Yeah , I think so

19:57

. You don't have the massive like Gringolandia

19:59

where this is all just expats living

20:01

.

20:02

No , there are a

20:04

couple of areas .

20:06

We've seen some like condos and some gated communities

20:08

, but they're small Like six

20:10

or twelve places , but I think

20:13

the Mexicans

20:15

live in gated communities

20:17

.

20:17

Yes , they do .

20:18

So it's not just the Mex-pat doing

20:20

that .

20:21

No , you're absolutely right about that , and

20:24

there's quite a few of those in

20:26

the neighborhood and in the areas

20:28

outside of Centro and stuff .

20:30

There's quite a few , and

20:33

I don't see that as a bad thing

20:36

. No no , it's

20:38

about security , because you can leave

20:40

.

20:41

But on the other hand , at the local Mercado , when

20:44

we're in there , we don't see an awful lot of gringos .

20:46

No , right here where you're Because

20:49

we buy from here and Tuesday

20:51

market too .

20:52

Yeah , yesterday we went to the Tuesday market . How did you like

20:54

it ? It's wonderful .

20:55

It is . It's like being dropped in

20:57

an ant farm .

20:58

I know , but we kind of gravitated

21:01

to that kind of thing Even in . Turkey . Even

21:03

in Turkey we gravitated to markets . We gravitated

21:05

to that . I would love to go to Turkey .

21:07

Oh yeah , that's . It was a fabulous experience

21:10

. I would imagine it was Did . Did

21:12

y'all eat while you were up at the Tuesday

21:15

?

21:15

Market . No , we had been there

21:17

once before , but we didn't stay very long and we picked

21:19

up a few things . Yeah , we bought those . So we really wanted

21:21

to go back and spend some more time there , right , and

21:23

we found it was much bigger than we thought .

21:26

The second time I couldn't believe how huge

21:28

it was .

21:28

It is huge , but we had also wanted to stop

21:30

and check out the mall over there at the Liverpool

21:33

store Right the mall over there at the Liverpool store to get an idea

21:35

of that . So we didn't really want to be carrying around a bunch of

21:37

groceries , I understand .

21:39

But the other time we did buy from there .

21:41

But if we were living here , we would go

21:43

there every week and buy

21:45

as much produce and fruit and

21:47

gas as we could .

21:48

Yes , and why people would go

21:50

to Comair

21:52

and City Market when they've got that

21:55

is completely amazing

21:58

to me .

21:59

Yes , it is the food was not only

22:01

fresher , the produce not only look fresher and

22:03

better and cheaper yes but they

22:05

had things we couldn't find at the supermarket , like

22:07

strawberries and blueberries .

22:09

Yes , there's green beans

22:11

. It's interesting because where

22:14

I live , right across

22:16

the street from where I live , on Tuesdays

22:18

this garage door opens

22:20

up . All the local

22:23

neighborhood ladies start lining

22:25

up and about 11 o'clock

22:27

a truck pulls up , the garage

22:29

doors open . The truck

22:31

pulls in and opens

22:33

his back doors and starts displaying

22:35

and every Tuesday there is vegetables

22:37

and fruit and it is so fresh

22:40

and

22:42

it's definitely less expensive than

22:44

what you're going to pay , and

22:46

it is an every Tuesday thing and

22:49

there are a few gringos in the neighborhood that

22:51

will get in the line with the ladies

22:53

and everything . But I mean , how

22:55

wonderful is that ?

22:57

I mean , that's right to my door . That

22:59

is like no different

23:02

than European living . You go and buy

23:04

your fruit , you go and buy your vegetables

23:06

, you go and buy your bread .

23:07

There's the night market in Vienna , the

23:11

little market in .

23:12

Positano or the huge one in Florence

23:14

. All of these sound so amazing . I am so envious . Yeah , positano , the little market or the huge

23:16

one in Florence ?

23:17

Yeah , oh my gosh , All of these sound so amazing

23:19

. I am so envious the

23:21

people who don't buy in the markets

23:24

.

23:25

It's picked that morning and you're eating

23:27

it that evening , Right , what

23:29

would you say is the best part of your life here ?

23:32

My friend . Yes , I'm

23:34

probably at the best place I've been in my life

23:37

. I have such a

23:39

wonderful close

23:41

group of friends that actually

23:43

feels like family and

23:46

we're all pretty much on the same page

23:48

with you know most of our lives and

23:52

the support we have for one another . It

23:56

is amazing and

23:58

it is really a beautiful time

24:00

. Yeah , so that that

24:03

would be the best part , and

24:05

I guess just having the

24:07

opportunity to live in such an

24:09

amazing country yeah that's

24:11

pretty awesome yeah

24:14

, it is awesome and

24:16

having the wherewithal to want to do it yeah

24:19

you know , I was having this discussion with my sister

24:21

today . She said well , you've always , you've

24:23

always jumped and you've always landed

24:26

on your feet well , let's talk about flirt

24:28

skirts oh my let's

24:31

did you have a background in fashion

24:33

? No , no , yes

24:37

, very early on , when

24:39

I was in high school , before

24:41

I went to college , you know , just

24:44

a retail job and . But then

24:46

I was able . They asked

24:48

me to go to market and do the buying for their

24:50

stores .

24:51

I was 17 years old . Oh

24:53

, that's crazy .

24:55

So , and you know that was a

24:57

period of my life that you know , in 17

24:59

, 18 , you don't know really what you're doing

25:01

, and it wasn't something I wanted to make a

25:03

career out of . So , way

25:05

back when Flirt Skirts started

25:08

in Puerto Vallarta , when

25:10

I had agreed to go back with

25:12

Terry and Peter Bowman to work in

25:15

their business , I got

25:17

there and it was really , really hot . I

25:19

enjoy looking nice . I

25:22

don't enjoy wearing pants when it's 100,000

25:24

degrees out and humidity , and

25:28

so I couldn't find much of

25:30

what I would like to wear . It's amazing

25:32

, though Some fabrics are

25:35

tough , no , and especially how they're

25:37

made and how they're cut , and that gives

25:39

them a flow . Yeah , okay . So

25:41

I had seen

25:43

this design for a wrap-around

25:45

skirt that's been around forever and

25:48

it's reversible , and

25:50

so I thought , well , that would be a good skirt

25:52

for me to have to work in and look nice and feel

25:54

nice . So I found some

25:56

fabrics and then I decided

25:59

to make one myself

26:01

, and it's six yards

26:03

, so there's a lot of fabric , and I cut

26:05

it out on my bed

26:07

and I cut the . I accidentally

26:09

cut the bedspread all up and all

26:11

that stuff it wasn't mine , but that's okay

26:13

. I replaced it and so I

26:16

finished it . It wasn't made to sell by any means

26:18

. It was so shoddily done but you

26:20

couldn't tell it . You know it's what they would

26:22

call a 10 footer . It looks good

26:24

from 10 feet yeah so

26:27

with about walking out of my

26:30

house that day first

26:32

time , I wore it . Within five minutes I

26:34

was stopped on the street by two lovely ladies

26:36

saying that's such a beautiful skirt

26:39

, thank you . And so I

26:41

did it again a couple months later

26:43

, because it was difficult to find the fabrics

26:46

that I liked . Um , did

26:48

it again . Same thing happened . So

26:50

I started paying attention and this was a

26:52

high-end design showroom and just

26:55

beautiful , beautiful things everywhere .

26:58

So I wanted to play the part .

26:59

Anyway , it was just a skirt and a t-shirt

27:02

. Well

27:12

, I finally found a wonderful seamstress that could actually copy and make

27:14

the skirts professionally for me . So I would spend

27:16

my time in the store and then I would seek out fabrics Fabrics

27:18

, right , and that's not as easy as you think

27:20

and then she would make them for

27:22

me . So she would deliver them or

27:24

I'd pick them up , like once a week . Well

27:26

, I would have them . Okay , this is

27:29

with no internet . I mean

27:31

internet , yes , but no social media

27:33

, no Facebook , nothing , alright

27:35

. So I would wear these to work

27:37

. I would have a tag hanging from my skirt

27:39

, I would have three or four extra

27:42

ones just in a chair , because I

27:44

needed the emphasis to be on the store where . I

27:46

was working , not me and my inventory

27:48

. And people would say do you know

27:50

you have a tag hanging from your skirt ? And

27:53

I would say did you know that this skirt is for

27:55

sale ? And then that would

27:57

start and I would wear my skirts

27:59

. I mean , if I had to run an errand or go to lunch , I

28:01

would always have the tag out , yeah , and so

28:04

it always caught attention . So

28:06

I was invited to big fashion shows

28:08

and this , that and the other , and it just kind of took

28:10

off . I had no business plan whatsoever

28:12

. No , no thought to a business at all

28:14

.

28:15

So it started on its own Seems like a

28:17

major theme in your life . Yeah , yes

28:20

.

28:21

There's a reason for all of that . So

28:23

during one high season , which

28:26

is approximately five months

28:28

, I sold and

28:30

I have the records 477

28:34

skirts , all one

28:36

of a kind yeah , okay , with

28:38

no advertising , no social

28:41

media , no . So

28:43

then it was like maybe I need to , yeah

28:45

yeah , focus on this , yeah . Yeah

28:48

, so Flirts has developed

28:50

into . Now it's more than just

28:53

the great skirts , it

28:55

also I came up with the concept for

28:57

reversible dresses , and

28:59

it's amazing our parents , our mothers , didn't

29:02

have reversible dresses for us as kids

29:04

. I know , isn't it ? I mean really , and truly because

29:06

it would have made their life so much easier . I

29:08

use polyester fabrics , which are

29:10

so sustainable and they're so easy

29:13

to care for and the packability

29:15

is amazing

29:18

. I do the reversible dresses and now

29:20

I'm doing these really flowy tops , that

29:23

I do the skirts and

29:25

for people that don't want to do skirts , I

29:27

do the dresses . For the people that don't

29:29

want to show their arms , I do the tops , and

29:31

they all go really well together . They

29:33

travel beyond anything

29:36

. I put 96 pieces

29:38

of my line in one

29:40

suitcase with a rack

29:43

. Okay , that is so

29:45

amazing to me . So , yeah

29:47

, I do really well

29:49

and have a lot of fun with it . Yeah , pop-up

29:52

sales .

29:53

Do you sell any online now , or is this just for the

29:55

local market ?

29:56

It's mostly local , but I have

29:58

clients in the States

30:00

and so I will reach out

30:03

to them . When I get new merchandise and

30:05

I have people , um , there's always someone

30:08

coming and going to the States from

30:10

here and I will have them mule

30:12

up my the

30:15

skirts or whatever's being bought and have

30:17

them mail it off for me . So that's cool

30:19

. Yeah , it works . You know

30:21

, I've had a lot of problems with . I just

30:24

need to figure out the manufacturing

30:26

part of it more . Right now I'm dependent

30:28

on some local seamstresses

30:30

and a tailor who have become family

30:33

to me , um , but

30:35

to support themselves they , they suffer a lot

30:37

of other people and they're not always available

30:40

and that's been a little snag , but I'm

30:42

okay .

30:43

But you know something else we

30:45

meet a lot of women at the international

30:48

living conferences that we talk at who

30:50

are thinking about a life abroad

30:52

but just can't bring themselves to make

30:54

that leap . Do you

30:56

have any advice ? I mean , you've been so courageous to

30:58

just go ahead and take chances and move and

31:01

jump in your life . Do you

31:03

have any advice for women , especially who are considering

31:05

a move ?

31:05

Well , first of all , I would say you can do anything

31:08

you really want to do . Any

31:10

situation that I am presented with that

31:13

requires a decision . I

31:16

have gotten very comfortable

31:18

in the question why

31:20

not ? Because we're so quick

31:23

to say , oh no , I can't do that , and

31:25

I just mean in general , not even regards

31:27

to moving to a foreign country . Why

31:30

not ? It's like , well , you can always come

31:32

up with a reason , but if you sit with that for a

31:35

second , you can usually work through that and

31:37

go .

31:37

Well , yes , yes , yes , I can , I

31:39

absolutely can , you know because it

31:41

doesn't matter if you make

31:43

a boo-boo , you can readjust .

31:46

I agree completely

31:48

. Now the advice I would give

31:50

or the suggestions I would make I

31:53

would visit different places and

31:55

if you think there's a particular place

31:57

that you are interested in spending

32:00

more time in , I

32:02

would rent , rent

32:04

, rent for

32:06

six months minimum to

32:09

test the waters and see how

32:11

it works for you , because

32:13

so many people have never lived in a foreign

32:16

country and feel like , yeah

32:18

, I can do this , and they get here and

32:20

other places and buy houses and

32:23

it doesn't always work .

32:24

Yeah , we've done that , but it's always

32:26

worked out . Yeah , exactly , but

32:29

those people normally

32:31

who jump . We've known

32:34

people who have moved close

32:36

to us in Ecuador bought

32:38

something , stayed six months and

32:41

the woman had such phobia she

32:43

couldn't even leave her condo .

32:45

Oh my , I can't even believe they were able to make that move Unless

32:47

her husband went .

32:48

And when she first came I never noticed

32:51

that behavior . But the

32:53

longer she , so people do

32:55

change and sometimes

32:57

it's not tolerable for

32:59

them to live among

33:02

a different culture .

33:02

Well as you know , there's a difference between visiting and

33:05

living .

33:05

Yes , absolutely . I'll tell you

33:07

something else that is really important on adaptability

33:10

yes , that's super

33:12

important , and I

33:14

think most people would

33:17

consider living somewhere else

33:19

. I've had friends that say well , I

33:21

don't speak the language . Well , I didn't either

33:24

, and there's ways around that . And

33:26

if you're going to stay , then it would be a good idea

33:28

to learn the language . We would certainly

33:31

appreciate it here in Mexico

33:33

, san Miguel . Yeah

33:36

, so I would just

33:38

say rent and get

33:40

your bearings and see how you like it

33:42

, and if it doesn't work , you can always

33:44

turn around and go back or find another

33:46

place .

33:47

Yes .

33:48

Well , we've been talking with Phyllis Gordon , long-time

33:50

resident of Mexico and San Miguel de

33:52

Allende and the creative genius

33:55

behind Flirt Skirts . If you

33:57

want to get your flirt on , you can check out some of

33:59

her collection of women's wear on her Instagram

34:01

by going to @Flirts Skirts

34:03

. And that's two S's in the middle , and , don't

34:05

worry , the link will also be in the show notes . Well

34:08

, Phyllis , thanks for sharing your story with us on

34:10

Travels with Jim and Rita .

34:12

First of all , thank you for asking

34:14

me . I am grateful for that opportunity

34:17

, but getting to know you two better

34:19

and having some time and just exploring

34:21

these areas and these ideas with y'all

34:23

is just a real pleasure .

34:25

So I thank you . And we certainly hope

34:28

, our paths cross again .

34:29

They will , you know they will .

34:42

Before we go , a reminder that Rita and I will be at the 2024 Ultimate Go Overseas

34:44

Boot Camp coming up in Las Vegas , nevada , october 26th through 28th . If

34:47

I don't freak out from stage fright , you can see

34:49

me give a couple of presentations and we'll both

34:51

be in the exhibit hall to answer questions about

34:53

slow travel , the places we have visited

34:55

and our plans for the future . There

34:58

will be expats and experts from around the world and

35:00

if you're interested in attending , check out

35:02

intliving/ events

35:04

that's intliving . c/

35:07

events for more information or to

35:09

make reservations . That's

35:12

it for this week's show . Keep listening and keep

35:14

spreading the word on social media . If

35:17

you can , please take a moment to leave a rating and

35:19

review and , of course , subscriptions are

35:21

always welcome . If you

35:23

have any questions or you'd like to tell your own story

35:25

, email me at jim@ jimsantosbooks

35:27

. com . You

35:30

can also find my books and short stories on

35:32

my Amazon page at jimsantos . net

35:34

. Until

35:36

next time , remember we travel not

35:38

to escape life , but so that life does

35:40

not escape us .