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Welcome to The Real

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really really helps us which

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you. Now let's head over to the

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studio for the latest pile of

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track

0:42

yes and D there

0:42

Trappist. Welcome back to what

0:45

many people are calling episode

0:45

35 of the real advisor podcast

0:48

te R A P trap. My name is

0:48

Lincoln and joining me as ever

0:53

in the digital studio of doom

0:53

are the three other Horsemen of

0:56

the Apocalypse. Alan the

0:56

storyteller Smith call the voice

1:00

Witcher and and the ultra heart

1:00

Now gentlemen, we have a show

1:04

packed full of app salutely

1:04

nothing so let's start packing

1:08

it straight away with some more

1:08

high energy review reads and my

1:11

good friend Mr. Andrew Hart.

1:14

Thank you, Nick. Merry Christmas, everybody. Okay, first reviews entitled

1:16

just what I needed by John J.

1:20

fivestars. Amazing podcast and

1:20

the banter between the group

1:23

makes it feel like really

1:23

relaxed like you're listening to

1:26

a chat in a local pub. I started

1:26

my business late last year so

1:29

that I could provide full fat

1:29

financial planning with factor

1:32

based investing. So the insights

1:32

into the experiences of all and

1:35

podcast has been invaluable.

1:35

final review is from Kelly Kay.

1:40

Her username is UK Kelly

1:40

entitled five stars my friend

1:45

and colleague recommended your

1:45

show. After advising for nearly

1:47

22 years, I want to let you know

1:47

that I find the show really

1:51

helpful, invigorating. Plus it

1:51

makes me chuckle which is an

1:54

added bonus love the

1:54

collaboration and the dynamics

1:56

between the team. Keep up the

1:56

great work back to you boss.

2:00

Great stuff. Thanks, Eddie. Thank you, John and Kelly really do appreciate

2:02

those reviews do keep them

2:04

coming on in. Okay, let's go

2:04

over to tropical tidbits and put

2:09

a sort of timestamp on this

2:09

episode in Episode 35. A trap

2:13

and we'll lead off with you Mr.

2:13

Smith, the Lang cat thing.

2:17

Well, first of all,

2:17

yes. Merry Christmas to all our

2:20

listeners and supporters. Thank

2:20

you very much to my fellow trap

2:24

pack. We agreed that we would

2:24

appear on the show. For those of

2:28

for those of you watching on

2:28

YouTube. Yeah, fully decked out

2:32

in our festive gear. And I'm the

2:32

only one who bloody did it. Oh,

2:37

Mr. Hart. He's got his he's got

2:37

a hat. A little hat? No expense

2:44

spent. Well done. At least

2:44

Carl's got a Christmas tree to

2:47

celebrate Christmas in your in

2:47

your home. Nicholas

2:53

we are aware of the date

2:59

All right. Well, Happy Christmas Everyone

3:01

loves turkey or beef

3:01

Nick.

3:07

Yeah, anything but

3:07

Turkey. There's a reason only

3:09

have brussel sprouts in Turkey once a year because they're bloody awful. So anything but

3:11

Turkey.

3:15

Right back on with

3:15

the show. Topical titbits

3:19

another industry report this

3:19

time from our friends at the

3:24

Lang cat in association with

3:24

Royal London. Royal London,

3:28

according to their website are

3:28

the largest mutual insurance

3:32

company in the UK, I suppose.

3:32

Because all the rest of them

3:35

have kind of gone or de

3:35

Mutual's. But anyway, there's

3:38

still a big operation. We don't

3:38

have much of a relationship with

3:40

them, but they seem to still be

3:40

doing some interesting things.

3:43

So Royal London hired the Lange

3:43

cat, to do a report to create a

3:50

report, do some research speak

3:50

to clients and customers have

3:54

advisors speak to advisors and

3:54

they've got what is called the

3:58

inaugural, the meaning of value

3:58

report. Obviously, this is a

4:02

follow up to consumer duty which

4:02

came in and this whole big

4:04

ongoing debate around value for

4:04

money. I thought it's quite

4:09

interesting study four pages

4:09

long, and there are some

4:12

interesting parts of it that are

4:12

worth reviewing. First one is a

4:17

bit obvious 45% of consumers

4:17

defined value as a combination

4:22

of getting value for money and

4:22

getting their money's worth

4:27

meaningless. 16% define it as

4:27

price which again, I think is

4:34

pretty obvious to us. It's not

4:34

just about price, a relatively

4:37

small number. Considered just

4:37

only about price. advisors

4:43

believe that clients value peace

4:43

of mind 66% Two thirds of

4:47

advisors believe that their

4:47

clients value peace of mind most

4:51

than helping them reach their

4:51

financial goals and then clear

4:55

communication. The interesting

4:55

point perhaps the most

4:57

interesting part, the whole report, I would still recommend you have a read through at least

4:59

browse through it. There are

5:01

some useful tidbits within it.

5:01

But the thing that I don't think

5:05

is particularly well

5:05

acknowledged by a number of

5:08

advisors, and I'll put our hands

5:08

up here as well is that a quite

5:11

a large number, at least 50% of

5:11

consumers who paid for

5:15

investment advice, say that it

5:15

is the most important thing for

5:20

investment returns positive

5:20

investment returns are the most

5:24

important aspects of how they

5:24

determined value for money. And

5:28

we might have mentioned this in the podcast before, it's certainly a theme that's come up

5:30

in our firm of the last year or

5:33

two, in that we kind of almost

5:33

have felt that the investment

5:36

piece was a battle we've already

5:36

won. We know how to invest

5:40

capital wisely. And we've

5:40

probably been less kind of vocal

5:45

about investment investment

5:45

returns, how you construct

5:48

investment portfolios, how you

5:48

optimize how you maximize, etc.

5:51

Because we've we've all evolved

5:51

much more to the Canada, the

5:54

planning the strategy, the

5:54

delivering good outcomes for

5:57

clients from a kind of

5:57

lifestyle, or full fat financial

5:59

planning basis. So interesting,

5:59

this report can't remember how

6:02

many people which is a

6:02

reasonable number of consumers,

6:05

who are clients of financial

6:05

advisors, have said that their

6:08

single most important

6:08

determinant of value is positive

6:12

investment returns a useful

6:12

reminder for all of us, as we

6:15

think about our client comes

6:15

next year, Mr. Hart,

6:19

really good point. I love that. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah.

6:23

Very, very

6:23

critical.

6:28

I think when people

6:28

get into financial planning,

6:31

they get too into it, and

6:31

sometimes can become a bit too

6:34

evangelical. And you're right,

6:34

in an initial meeting with the

6:38

client, you say, are the

6:38

investments as easy, we'll deal

6:41

with that later on, we've just

6:41

got a cheap low cost portfolio

6:43

that fixes that problem, and

6:43

they push it to the side, I've

6:47

probably made that mistake a few

6:47

times in the past. So now it is

6:51

their life savings is a central

6:51

thing. The investment piece is

6:55

massively important. So I do put

6:55

it you know, front and center,

6:59

and then just to see their

6:59

appetite of how much they want

7:02

to speak about it. So that is a

7:02

note of warning to younger

7:06

advisors that come through the

7:06

once they realize that you're

7:09

right, the investment journey

7:09

has been, or the investment

7:12

battle has been won, like we

7:12

sort of know the answer to it,

7:15

but still have it front and

7:15

center is their life savings.

7:17

And they are seeking advice

7:17

around that. I mean, me and

7:20

Carla spoken about this over the

7:20

years, what do you call yourself

7:22

to call yourself a financial

7:22

planner, a financial adviser or

7:24

investment advisor, I think a

7:24

lot of people are actually

7:26

looking for investment advisors,

7:26

nobody's looking for a financial

7:29

planner, quite a few people

7:29

looking for a financial advisor.

7:31

So meet the clients where they

7:31

are, if you've got to play some

7:35

kind of game to attract more

7:35

clients, then give them the good

7:38

stuff. So be it you know, this

7:38

is a sales profession. Anyone

7:42

else?

7:42

Yeah, meet them

7:42

where they're at, you know, and

7:46

then bring them through the

7:46

process. But I think it's a

7:49

really, really good point. And

7:49

certainly something we've, it's

7:54

funny when you start out and you

7:54

you're very evangelical about

7:57

the whole financial planning

7:57

process. It's like, you know,

7:59

it's all about the planning. And

7:59

exactly, Alan and, and Andy and

8:04

myself have had this

8:04

conversation in the last

8:07

probably 18 months, like, we

8:07

need to start talking a little

8:10

bit more, we need to focus a little bit more on the investment. So I think it's a

8:12

very well made point. And I

8:16

think learning for everybody,

8:16

certainly.

8:20

Okay, good stuff.

8:20

Thank you very much. Very good

8:22

point mu. And he's really,

8:22

really good point strong. Very

8:25

good. Well,

8:27

thank you, Nick. Thank you. Thank you for showing up today. Really appreciate it,

8:29

mate.

8:31

Thank you just for

8:31

being in my life, call market

8:34

hours.

8:35

The market problems

8:35

we should say, right, so we've

8:37

got maybe some feedback that

8:37

we're getting a little bit too

8:41

touchy with each other. So we're

8:41

having to come by moment.

8:46

Christmas time, after all, so

8:46

we're all going to be so nice to

8:50

each other. I'm so respectful.

8:53

Let's see how long

8:53

these last minutes to the end of

8:58

this

8:59

shaking table.

9:03

minute the record

9:03

button goes off. It's true.

9:05

We're never doing that again.

9:05

Anyway. Yes, the market bounce

9:09

has been fantastic, a little

9:09

Christmas present for all of our

9:13

clients to whom maybe we're

9:13

getting a little bit worried.

9:17

God knows who knows when this is

9:17

going to end. But there has been

9:23

a nice little rally. Of course,

9:23

all the predictions are going to

9:27

be due out in the next little

9:27

while and you'll open your

9:31

newspapers in first of January.

9:31

And you'll have loads of people

9:34

telling you they know what's

9:34

going to happen next and their

9:37

predictions for the market.

9:37

Correct. They are totally and

9:42

utterly pointless, of course,

9:42

but it is very nice to finally

9:47

be delivering lots of good news.

9:47

And those of us who have

9:52

portfolios that are tilted

9:52

towards small caps are getting

9:56

an even extra little bounce at

9:56

the moment. So it is really

10:00

really good I look at it you

10:00

know what it's actually lovely

10:04

to reward clients who have been

10:04

sticking with the plan just

10:09

sitting on their hands looking

10:09

out the window and now they're

10:11

gonna get the benefit of doing

10:11

exactly that so let's enjoy it

10:17

while we have it and we were

10:17

never going to predict what's

10:20

going to happen next but it's

10:20

nice and thank you for that

10:24

little Christmas present the

10:24

markets Mr. Hot

10:28

by the time this show

10:28

launches, we might have hit a

10:32

new all time high in the s&p 500

10:32

We're we're about percentage

10:36

away from it so yeah, hopefully

10:36

that that happens and then who

10:40

knows where we're going for next year but yeah, all the predictions will come in and

10:42

obviously some of them be right

10:44

and most of them will be wrong

10:44

but yeah, ignore basically

10:48

yeah, it is nice

10:48

when are kind of buying whole

10:52

stick to the plan stick to the

10:52

program come sit we we're not

10:56

we're not you know, markets go

10:56

up markets go down as the most

10:59

challenging thing the last couple of years as markets have gone sideways and that's kind of

11:01

almost the worst the worst

11:04

version. When markets we've

11:04

talked about the heart that's

11:08

pretty hawkish good down you

11:08

know, future anticipated returns

11:11

future expected returns are just

11:11

higher if you get down 20% You

11:14

just know long term reversion to

11:14

mean etc. I'm terrible for I

11:18

think you do this as well. Now I

11:18

see newspaper articles and I

11:20

just clip them out and I save

11:20

them for future reference. Yeah,

11:24

this is another one so there's

11:24

one about a year ago which I'll

11:28

I'll probably share later just

11:28

city wide magazine you know they

11:32

have they're looking at you

11:32

know, active investment managers

11:36

and the headlines I can't

11:36

remember exactly what it says

11:38

along the lines of You know,

11:38

this is a year ago. Fears of

11:43

impending recession frighten

11:43

asset managers out of equities

11:48

so holding bonds in cash is what

11:48

a lot of active managers have

11:51

chosen to do and as Andy says we're about to

11:59

hit if we haven't done by the

12:02

time this goes out but there

12:02

there abouts okay, what's the

12:05

s&p is up over 20% I think not

12:05

that not that's the only index

12:09

in the world but it is sort of half the more and more

12:11

as the biggest one isn't it really is the proxy biggest stock market Yeah,

12:15

it is the up usually

12:15

but so all these you know a

12:18

significant number of active

12:18

managers have kind of dialed

12:20

down their equity exposure a

12:20

year ago it probably exactly the

12:24

wrong time to do it is just

12:24

another you know, as what's the

12:27

what's the phrase, what's the

12:27

Nick Murray, humans humans are a

12:30

failed

12:30

investor. Human nature, human

12:32

nature, human nature

12:32

stuff. Yeah, yes. The s&p 500

12:36

year to date is up 22% The last

12:36

market high we hit was on the

12:39

third of January 2022. It's

12:39

almost like a pure two year

12:43

slice which is quite interesting. Again, it's all just meaningless really at the

12:45

end of the day but yeah, good

12:48

news for all historical

12:48

investors that have stuck with

12:50

the plan throughout these cycles

12:50

markets. Okay.

12:55

Great point. Great

12:55

great point Ireland

12:57

yeah, thanks for bringing alcohol that's

13:01

now it's too much

13:01

done. I'm done with it. zip

13:08

drive a quite talking

13:09

to things bouncing

13:09

Bitcoin Mr. Smith, I'm

13:13

gonna give you this.

13:13

Are you gonna keep smiling all

13:15

of you keep smiling and nodding

13:15

and supporting me through this

13:18

conversation? It just got so

13:18

involved is the s&p is up 22%

13:24

bitcoins up nearly 200 Say 160%

13:24

last time this year percent this

13:31

year alone. I've had a couple of

13:31

conversations that I'm we all

13:35

agree we all agree Bitcoin and

13:35

specifically Bitcoin not other

13:38

crypto Bitcoin but it's not a

13:38

traditional investment. It

13:41

doesn't it doesn't have assets.

13:41

It doesn't it doesn't produce

13:43

yield. It's not a real asset is

13:43

a gamble is the speculation we

13:47

know that. So effectively. A

13:47

digital is effectively a digital

13:50

currency. or digital Yeah, they

13:50

should go digital currency. But

13:55

I've got a couple of

13:55

conversations with smart clients

13:59

in this this year. And the same

13:59

would it be any sort of damage

14:03

in me holding 1% Specifically

14:03

the said 1% of my assets. I just

14:08

bought by you know, a couple of

14:08

bitcoins what what's the Bitcoin

14:11

now? $40,000.25 times before you

14:11

want those? Yeah, yeah. So

14:17

owning owning two or three

14:17

Bitcoins. How terrible is that?

14:22

And I'm not against it as a

14:22

thought as a thought experiment

14:26

as an idea on the basis that

14:26

fundamentally contradicts our

14:29

core investment philosophy. But

14:29

in the same way as we've talked

14:31

about before, you've got your

14:31

family fortress and you've got

14:34

your investment playpen, chuck

14:34

it in the investment playpen. If

14:37

it goes to zero, it's not going

14:37

to kill you. If it does do 10

14:41

times 100 times 1000 times the

14:41

next 10 years. You'll probably

14:44

be quite glad you did it. Any

14:44

thoughts on that? And the you've

14:48

always had a vague interest and

14:51

yeah, I kept an eye

14:51

on this obviously because our

14:54

clients are getting involved in

14:54

it. I think more people on

14:56

cryptocurrency the pension in

14:56

the UK, something like 64% of

15:00

adults have cryptocurrency and

15:00

63% of pensions or some so it is

15:04

ridiculous. We've gone through

15:04

this crazy sort of bull market

15:08

and loads of people made loads

15:08

of money. Sorry a few people

15:10

made loads of money a lot of

15:10

people lost a load money. Yeah,

15:12

keep a rough eye on it like a

15:12

keep a rough eye and all the

15:14

other weird and wacky stuff that

15:14

gets invented just to throw it

15:17

into the, you know, avoid

15:17

anything that's working now

15:20

bucket and we stick to things

15:20

which have always worked. But

15:22

you're right, if a client needs

15:22

a release, and they got to buy

15:25

some tiny, something just to

15:25

keep up with the Joneses or the

15:28

people down the golf club, then

15:28

they're not knock yourself out.

15:31

Obviously, you're not providing

15:31

advice you say? Yep, crack on.

15:34

But I think Nick's reached his

15:34

boiling point with this one. So

15:38

we'll move on. But great point.

15:38

Great point. Thanks for bringing

15:42

that up.

15:45

Right. Okay. Don't

15:45

Don't ask Nick. Just move on.

15:49

I have nothing to

15:49

add. It's, it's, it's it's

15:52

anathema to me. Pension

15:52

simplification in 2006. It's a

15:57

cliche to say it seems so long

15:57

ago that it almost never

15:59

happened. And just just I read a

15:59

note from the formerly respected

16:03

brand called Standard Life, who

16:03

sent out this quite good

16:06

technical briefings about tax

16:06

free cash around pensions, and

16:11

it is now so complicated for a

16:11

certain small segment of our

16:15

population. But it is so

16:15

complicated, I think it's almost

16:19

wicked. I know we say it's

16:19

really good that things are

16:22

complicated, because if things were simple, the clients would need us and that's true. They

16:23

need us for our technical

16:26

expertise. You know, most of our

16:26

value I think comes from

16:28

behavior modification and keeping people sticking to the plan. You don't need technical

16:30

expertise, expertise for that.

16:33

But yeah, if everything was straightforward, and vanilla, people would have less need to

16:35

say financial advisor but but

16:38

the rules around this now are

16:38

just so it's an I'm gonna say

16:41

wicked, I mean, wicked in the

16:41

cool sense that the youth might

16:44

say, I mean, wicked as Bloody

16:44

wicked, whoever. I'll give you

16:47

an example. This would be quite

16:47

dull, I think so you slightly

16:50

Bowman's when I'm gonna make this point where by reading this scheme specific tax free cash

16:52

protection, the formula is open

16:56

brackets, the fifth of April

16:56

2006, tax free cash times 1.8

17:00

million divided by 1.5 million

17:00

close brackets, plus 25% of

17:05

times open bracket retirement

17:05

fund minus open brackets, fifth

17:09

of April 2006 fund times current

17:09

lifetime allowance divided by

17:13

1.5 million close to brackets.

17:13

And the latest Finance Bill

17:19

simplifies that slightly to this

17:19

being about 14 different

17:22

brackets.

17:22

I mean, obviously just rest with that again, Nick, could you transfer?

17:25

I couldn't I couldn't even say it, could I smooth it. I don't know there's

17:26

something wrong with our system

17:30

where you can where the thing

17:30

could be. So I think it'd be a

17:34

really positive thing just just

17:34

up in order to say, You know

17:36

what, get rid of all this crap.

17:36

Yes, some people are going to

17:38

benefit, they'll have a double

17:38

dip on their tax free cash or

17:41

what have you. It's a tiny

17:41

sliver, this stuff is so

17:44

complicated. I just, I just

17:44

think it's wrong. I think it's

17:47

it's a moral, there you go just

17:47

anywhere.

17:49

So we're on the

17:49

road to simplification here in

17:52

Ireland, and it is actually

17:52

working, although it's kind of

17:55

comfy. Like, you got to suffer a

17:55

little bit of time of complexity

17:59

to get to the simplification,

17:59

which I suppose is difficult

18:02

sometimes for clients to get get

18:02

their heads around. But we have

18:05

a much more simple calculation

18:05

in terms of lump sums, the first

18:10

200 grand is tax free, and the

18:10

next 300 grand is at the

18:13

standard rate of tax. So it's

18:13

lovely. It's like, you know,

18:17

there's their lifetime allowance

18:17

as they're talking about maybe

18:20

increasing the standard fund

18:20

threshold from the current 2

18:23

million or over to go kind of

18:23

back towards the 5 million that

18:29

it was at. But yeah, I think, to

18:29

be fair, the Irish system has a

18:36

really good pension system. And

18:36

it is that there's been an awful

18:40

lot of work over the last 25

18:40

years, probably the stage to, I

18:46

suppose, give the pension

18:46

freedoms that you guys have had

18:49

over the last couple of years.

18:49

And it's definitely going down

18:53

to roads where you'll be in

18:53

either a master trust or what we

18:57

call appear to say, and that's

18:57

good. And the more if people can

19:01

get their heads around it. I

19:01

think there'll be a little bit

19:04

more engaged. So the simpler it

19:04

is the better so yeah, it's put

19:08

that that cocktail you just

19:08

described there and it sounds

19:12

absolutely ridiculous. Like

19:12

who's who's Yeah, that makes no

19:16

sense to anybody thing

19:17

is it's written by civil service Swank's who have their lovely final salary

19:19

pensions, applying these laws to

19:21

us money purchase plebs. That's

19:21

the other thing that great as

19:24

well. Yeah.

19:26

And there is the

19:26

reason by the way that we're

19:28

talking about potentially

19:28

increasing the standard phone

19:31

threshold in Ireland is because

19:31

the civil servants when they the

19:36

high earning civil servants when

19:36

they get to the end, because

19:40

they're on DB pensions, they

19:40

have to you have to put a value

19:44

on it, and they're finding

19:44

themselves in excess of the 2

19:46

million. That is why the

19:46

minister has announced a review

19:49

of the

19:53

isn't it judges in

19:53

the UK NIC that have the most

19:56

you know, the best DB system is

19:56

like One the 15th or so

20:02

they've got a separate carve out in legislation I know Kier Starmer?

20:09

So he's voting for

20:09

Christmas is unbelievably

20:12

trolling the rest of us, we'll just make our own little rules, but you log in,

20:14

you'll just carve it out. So it

20:17

doesn't apply. It is it is what

20:17

it is.

20:20

There are

20:20

calculators that exists that you

20:23

could just sort of plug into

20:23

details, net, your client

20:26

details, fund value, etc. And

20:26

it's just, it's just a

20:31

calculation, isn't it? It's just

20:31

a check in here,

20:34

but it's just spits up spreadsheets that we

20:36

spreadsheets,

20:36

spreadsheets. So why do you need

20:38

a spreadsheet? To make it that

20:38

complicated? You need an Excel

20:41

spreadsheet with macros enabled,

20:41

otherwise, you know, it's just

20:44

like, Come on,

20:44

we used to have a system whereby

20:46

you've lost macros enabled

20:49

for saying, Whoa,

20:49

whoa, whoa, whoa. You had to

20:56

have like you there was revenue

20:56

maximum that you could put in

20:59

and it depended on your existing

20:59

fund value, your age, and your

21:05

salary and lots of other stuff.

21:05

And they've just scrapped it all

21:08

they said right, put in whatever

21:08

you wanted to appear, say.

21:11

Brilliant, much more simple. And

21:11

yes, there are, you know, high

21:16

earners who are who are sitting

21:16

on a lot of money in companies

21:19

and they're going to benefit.

21:19

But let's not throw the baby out

21:22

with the bathwater here, if it's

21:22

simple for everybody, and

21:25

everybody knows, and a few

21:25

people at the higher end are

21:28

going to benefit Well, good luck

21:28

to them. But everybody else is

21:32

in a much more simple system,

21:32

that if the simpler it gets the

21:36

more engaged people are going to be simple as that.

21:38

Well, well said

21:38

and well done for the Irish and

21:41

their continuing cultural

21:41

differences.

21:46

And then also,

21:46

they'll also see that I was

21:48

deeply uncomfortable with the

21:48

content of some who today's Yes.

21:52

Always to the Irish versus UK

21:52

cultural differences

22:05

Okay, that was the last time we

22:05

were saying that was at the the

22:08

World Cup match when Ireland

22:08

beat Scotland and bizarrely

22:12

guys, Andy Farrell has been

22:12

named Manager of the Year here

22:15

in Ireland. Well, that's a bit

22:15

mad, but anyway, was

22:22

the competition. Yeah, who

22:24

else was up for?

22:24

International?

22:32

Christmas gifts

22:32

smithy, bring it back, bring it

22:34

back before we descend? Yeah.

22:34

Yes,

22:37

obviously, this is going this time of the year. I just wanted I haven't spoken to

22:39

you guys about this before. I

22:42

just wondered what if anything

22:42

you do around kind of clients

22:46

and Christmas gifts. And I say

22:46

this from a background. First of

22:50

all, as you know, my other half

22:50

is Scandinavian, she's Swedish.

22:54

They don't have the concepts of

22:54

Christmas cards, for example,

22:57

donor Christmas cards. And I've

22:57

always thought Christmas cards a

23:00

bit of a waste of time,

23:00

actually, you send them out and

23:02

you'd write scribble a note on

23:02

it. And so we, for years, we

23:05

haven't sent out any Christmas

23:05

cards. And now when we used to

23:08

get loads coming back, I'm sure

23:08

everyone else noticed. So they

23:11

don't send us a card. So bit by

23:11

bit, you get blackballed, but on

23:14

top of friends, friends and

23:14

family, so now we need to send

23:17

Christmas cards, no received

23:17

them. But from a, from a

23:19

business and a corporate

23:19

viewpoint. years ago, some years

23:23

ago, in our firm, we used to for

23:23

clients paying fees above a

23:27

certain level, we brought a

23:27

threshold we would buy a it was

23:32

specifically it was a small

23:32

hamper from Fortnum and Mason.

23:37

And it cost about 50 quid, right

23:37

but it looks much more just the

23:41

packaging was absolutely you

23:41

know, world class beautiful and

23:45

have it delivered to people's

23:45

homes. And it was basically a

23:49

bottle of champagne and some

23:49

sort of high end chocolates. But

23:52

in a nice box, little drawer,

23:52

you pulled out a fit. And I

23:55

always thought the clients

23:55

paying you, you know, pretty

23:58

significant sums. That was that

23:58

was a bargain for us to send it

24:01

out just to sort of say Merry

24:01

Christmas and, you know, enjoy

24:04

the break, etc. But then it led

24:04

to it just began to be sort of

24:08

lots of issues and problems.

24:08

Some clients that were away for

24:12

Christmas, didn't receive it delivered to next door neighbors, some received it and

24:14

then didn't know who it was from

24:18

because as the note wasn't put

24:18

on properly, some received it

24:23

and said, Look, we're fine. You

24:23

don't need to bother, don't

24:26

bother sending it and it was a

24:26

sort of, there was a sentiment

24:28

of us kind of being overly

24:28

grateful to them being clients

24:33

germane instead of just

24:33

sometimes it's kind of it's a

24:36

mutually beneficial arrangement,

24:36

we deliver great value they they

24:39

effectively pay us for the

24:39

value. So why are you paying

24:42

anything else? So we had kind of

24:42

mixed experience over several

24:46

years. So we stopped doing it.

24:46

We're just sort of pulled the

24:49

plug on doing these Christmas

24:49

gifts. And then we had a bunch

24:51

of people saying Oh, don't get

24:51

our Christmas get I always look

24:53

forward to that every year. So I

24:53

wish we hadn't sort of started

24:57

in the first place. I just

24:57

thought kicking it Around

25:00

amongst the group here. What if

25:00

anything do you guys do to

25:04

either to acknowledge reward

25:04

thank or just you know, this

25:07

time of year Christmas,

25:07

Christmas gifts or otherwise?

25:11

What do you do, Andy?

25:12

Good point out and

25:12

thanks for raising it. Yeah, so

25:15

I didn't say either the same

25:15

every year I send all of my

25:21

active clients our hotel

25:21

Shakalaka Christmas box. I think

25:25

it cost about 30 quid it's

25:25

nicely packed, wrap it nicely

25:29

packed etc with a with a gift

25:29

note. I also send Diane

25:33

in diabetic day

25:33

get that as well. I also

25:36

as my as a client

25:36

of yours, Andy is mine on the

25:39

way because I haven't got a jet.

25:41

I mean, proper

25:41

clients, financial planning

25:43

clients, if I had to send it to

25:43

financial advisor clients, I'd

25:45

be I'd be bankrupt.

25:48

We see we don't

25:48

matter. Oh, so

25:51

So I sent them over the last couple of weeks, I send about 50 boxes. I started doing

25:53

it since the start of Maven

25:56

advisor. And you're right Alan

25:56

clients expected one year, I

25:59

think they'd deliver them quite

25:59

late and my best client, she

26:03

called me up and said you send them the chocolates this year. That's it. Don't worry. They're

26:05

on their way. And she liked them

26:08

so much. She had a she had an

26:08

operation. And she said to me,

26:11

can you send a box of chocolates

26:11

to the the guy who starts

26:14

operation on so I got myself

26:14

into a whole heap a mess. But

26:17

anyway, that's what I do I send

26:17

the box. I send the box of hotel

26:20

shock and chocolate. And it goes

26:20

down really well. Yeah, keep it

26:24

simple. It's not it's not overly

26:24

expensive. But it obviously, you

26:28

know, cost a few quid to send 50

26:28

boxes. But um, yeah, I enjoy

26:31

doing it. It's a nice touch. But

26:31

yeah,

26:34

we don't send

26:34

cards, we don't send gifts. We

26:38

used it. But now we just make a

26:38

donation to a charity. And we

26:43

just we tell our clients that

26:43

that's what we're doing. Because

26:46

I'm not sure Alan, I think

26:46

Christmas cards may be kind of

26:50

just a thing of the past because

26:50

I don't see any or many coming

26:53

in here. Not getting any home

26:53

either. But that's probably

26:57

because I didn't say because you

26:57

said Christmas card in many,

27:01

many years. So it's probably not

27:01

being reciprocated. But yeah, I

27:06

just like the idea of look, you

27:06

know, business has we've had a

27:11

good year, we're going to make a

27:11

donation, proper proper donation

27:14

to a charity, and we tell our

27:14

clients so that's what we're

27:18

going to do. And yeah, that's

27:18

that's I'm, it's not right or

27:22

wrong. That's what we do.

27:24

Nick, what do you do? Nothing.

27:26

Christmas, nothing at all.

27:29

So I'm the only one who says clients Christmas gifts. Interesting.

27:32

I send birthday

27:32

cards. I'm sure you know, I've

27:36

got some of this. I do send

27:36

birthday cards to my clients.

27:38

And if they have life events,

27:38

then I'll send them some, you

27:41

know, a bottle of champagne. So

27:41

moving house or business

27:43

promotion somebody or business

27:43

sale, that kind of thing. I just

27:46

think Christmas time everybody

27:46

gets some, there's so much stuff

27:49

going out there. Yeah, it gets

27:49

lost in the mix. So

27:53

you're right, really? Yeah, we did that as well. We do. I think it varies

27:55

between advisors, some advisors

27:59

send birthday cards to every

27:59

single client, some do it for

28:03

big birthdays, as they say

28:03

50 6070, whatever. And we will

28:07

generally will on those ones on

28:07

the big birthdays, again, send a

28:12

bottle of champagne. I will send

28:12

a bunch of flowers that are both

28:16

I think all these things good

28:16

did do good downbeat about

28:18

absolutely right. As you get

28:18

older, Nick, you I can tell you

28:22

being the oldest here, you get

28:22

less and less birthday cards

28:24

less and less acknowledgement

28:24

that that your birthday comes

28:27

and goes. No. And as you say

28:27

Christmas is just busy, and it

28:30

just loads of things flying

28:30

around. So you're focused on

28:33

birthdays, I think if you're

28:33

gonna do anything, Andy, if

28:35

we're talking about

28:35

gifts, a superb thing that I've

28:38

done over the years, I must have

28:38

sent at least 20 of these.

28:41

There's a website called

28:41

historical newspapers. So I send

28:43

clients on their big birthdays,

28:43

five and zero. So 5560 6570 I

28:48

send them usually the times if

28:48

it's available the day that they

28:52

were born. I've also done it to

28:52

myself. So I've got the times of

28:55

the day I was born center

28:55

myself. And brilliantly. I'm

28:59

born on a Sunday. So the

28:59

newspapers enormous. I did a

29:02

whole podcast on actually, I'm

29:02

just about to send the client

29:05

who's 60 on the 23rd of

29:05

December, the times on the day

29:09

that he was born. It's a

29:09

brilliant gift. It's the best

29:12

gift they get, you know, it's a

29:12

big birthday, they get loads of

29:14

crap from everyone. And then

29:14

this beautiful box arrives

29:17

they're like What the hell is

29:17

this? And it's like the the

29:19

newspaper the day they were born

29:19

to spend all day reading it.

29:22

It's definitely worth doing it.

29:22

So if you want to do it for your

29:24

clients, it's called Historical

29:24

Newspapers dot code at UK is a

29:28

great site. So yeah, check it out.

29:32

Thought that whoever thought that was a birthday present idea is a

29:33

fantastic Okay, given that a

29:37

damn good thrashing I think

29:37

that's it for topical tickets

29:40

isn't a gentleman. Yes, it is

29:40

Nick. Okay, let's in that case,

29:44

move on to the meat and potatoes

29:44

of episode 35 of the red advisor

29:48

podcast. And this is the third

29:48

of three episodes we've done on

29:52

the back. So even my simple math

29:52

tells me it's episodes 3334 and

29:56

35. Around the subject of

29:56

marketing And this final episode

30:01

of three, the third leg of the

30:01

stool is about content strategy.

30:08

And the results that we have got

30:08

from it. All of us on traveled

30:12

with all the three musketeers

30:12

here, Four Musketeers. We all do

30:17

content creation to different

30:17

levels. Some of us do more than

30:19

others, who's gonna lead off on

30:19

this thing, we're gonna lead off

30:22

with Mr. Hart, who is renowned

30:22

in the profession for the amount

30:25

of stuff that he knocks out. Mr.

30:25

Hart?

30:30

It's very kind of

30:30

unique. Yes, this is about I

30:33

suppose digital content we're

30:33

talking about. So I thought I'd

30:35

just lay out what's involved

30:35

here. The obvious ones, things

30:38

like blogs, articles, essays,

30:38

newspapers, videos, visuals,

30:44

podcast as well. So this is an

30:44

example of content marketing.

30:48

Obviously, we're sort of finding

30:48

our feet with it. We're just

30:51

over a year into it now. And

30:51

lots of things have come as a

30:55

result of doing it. It's often

30:55

not clear at the beginning what

30:59

they will be. I ran another

30:59

podcast Maven money, I did 300

31:04

episodes of pretty much

31:04

discussed everything you could

31:07

possibly do with money on that

31:07

stuff. Yeah, I'm quite prolific

31:11

on LinkedIn on X on Twitter, as

31:11

you're gonna play, there's Rob

31:15

is enough, either up. Yeah, so

31:15

that's, that's a starter. So it

31:20

is very, very important. You

31:20

still need to the old school

31:22

stuff, referrals, networking,

31:22

you know, showing up and doing

31:27

doing good work. But then

31:27

obviously, these days, everyone

31:30

is scrolling constantly on their

31:30

phones, on their iPads on their

31:34

computers. And yeah, I, I run

31:34

humans on the management, which

31:39

is obviously a physical brand in

31:39

terms of conferences, but it

31:42

does it has a sort of digital

31:42

offering via humans on the

31:44

management premium. So I'm very

31:44

prolific posting stuff on

31:47

LinkedIn. Yeah, it's very

31:47

important. And I've said before

31:52

any content, endeavor, whatever

31:52

that may be for you, you should

31:56

think 30 months before you get

31:56

any traction, too many people

32:00

start things and stop things

32:00

because they don't get enough

32:03

sort of results from it. You

32:03

know, I've been doing this

32:05

YouTube channel for nine months,

32:05

and nothing happened. It's like,

32:08

Well, now you've got to commit,

32:08

ideally, to 30 months to begin

32:11

with, which is two and a half

32:11

years, we've got lucky with

32:14

trap, because quite a few of us

32:14

have got, you know, an audience

32:18

already. So we've got traction a

32:18

bit sooner than that, say 30

32:21

months. But still, we need to

32:21

give this a good crack for 30

32:25

months and sort of, you know,

32:25

practice what we preach. So

32:28

yeah, that's the opening of it.

32:28

Who's next?

32:33

When I when I go

32:33

next, because I'm, I think I

32:36

need to defer here to Mr. Hart.

32:36

And Mr. Smith, who's content

32:40

creation is absolutely smashing

32:40

it out of the park. So my I've

32:45

done I've been, I've done a good

32:45

bit on on X, I've done a good

32:50

bit on LinkedIn, but it's very

32:50

sporadic. So I'm definitely not

32:53

playing to the rule that the two

32:53

and a half year rule, I find,

32:59

when I get really busy, I just

32:59

leave it off, which is probably

33:03

the time that I need to up my

33:03

game. So that's 2024 is going to

33:07

be about trying to get bring

33:07

some consistency to that. We

33:12

have done a couple of them

33:12

holding one of the guides that

33:15

we've done here. And you know,

33:15

we've asked people to download

33:20

them off the website, or we have

33:20

hard copies as well, that's

33:23

actually been really successful

33:23

for us. You know, stuff like 10

33:28

tips to take care of your future

33:28

while you're taking care of your

33:31

business. So aimed up business

33:31

owners, that kind of stuff. I

33:34

think we've four different

33:34

guides at the moment. They take

33:39

a lot of effort, so you can't

33:39

put out BS you know, you got you

33:43

gotta be careful in you know,

33:43

that it's engaging, that the

33:47

the, you know, the title of the

33:47

guide is something that kind of

33:51

grabs Oh, yeah, that's, that's

33:51

where I'm at. So that's what I'm

33:54

going to download. Yeah, but I

33:54

think 2024 We're going to

33:58

definitely be upping our game in

33:58

terms of our content and driving

34:03

stuff out via say LinkedIn and

34:03

Twitter but I'm always amazed at

34:07

the at the commitment and the

34:07

consistency that both Andy and

34:12

Ireland have in terms of their

34:12

social media strategy. So this

34:16

was a this is a piece I think

34:16

I'm going to just shut up and

34:20

I'm gonna learn now as to you

34:20

know, exactly how you how you

34:23

get the success that you've got,

34:23

because I know that this

34:26

delivers results for both of you.

34:32

Yes, it's a skewed

34:32

subjects relevant subject and

34:36

it's a huge subject. So I'll

34:36

just share my own. I think we

34:38

have talked about this a little

34:38

bit in the past. I'll bring you

34:40

up to date with my experiences

34:40

and and importantly perhaps

34:44

results that you and I went on a

34:44

writing course. Coming up two

34:52

years ago, we started January

34:52

2020 to ship 30 for 30. That was

34:57

the trigger for me because it

34:57

compelled To me, and you did it

35:01

as well, Nick to create

35:01

something every day for 30 days.

35:05

And it's only that, you know, as

35:05

they say, That's habit forming.

35:08

If you do anything, whether it's

35:08

you know, exercise or whatever,

35:12

meditate 30 days consistently

35:12

seems to kind of rewire your

35:15

brain a little bit. And that's

35:15

what worked for me. Somewhat

35:19

prior to that I was very

35:19

sporadic around writing stuff on

35:24

on social media and kind of

35:24

pathetic, really, you know, the

35:28

little messages and the

35:28

traditional photograph of what

35:32

you had for lunch or something

35:32

completely irrelevant. But the

35:34

whole ship 30 thing was quite a

35:34

catalyst for me, because I began

35:38

to understand because digital

35:38

content creation is so different

35:42

to so many other ways of writing

35:42

or creating the way we, we

35:47

consume information differently

35:47

digitally, basically scroll, no

35:50

one's really reading things like

35:50

they read a book. So and there's

35:54

all sorts of tips and tricks,

35:54

which I won't go into here. If

35:56

anyone's interested, there's a

35:56

ton of stuff available on the

35:59

ship 30 website and their

35:59

YouTube channel, little things

36:03

about how to hook the first line

36:03

that you you write is really

36:07

important use use of bullet

36:07

points, use of formatting and

36:09

spacing, all that sort of stuff.

36:09

And I forget half of it, and I'm

36:13

not really as consistent as I

36:13

should be. But however, that was

36:15

the starting point of creating

36:15

content now. What's the purpose

36:20

of it, and for me, it's

36:20

multiple. Undoubtedly, part of

36:26

this is to kind of be, you know,

36:26

it's a bit of a bullshit term,

36:31

but you know, what I mean,

36:31

thought leadership, all it is,

36:34

is sharing thoughts, ideas and

36:34

inspirations that I've had, you

36:37

know, we all I consume a lot, I

36:37

read a lot of stuff, and I share

36:40

my take on it. The other thing

36:40

it forces you to do by creating

36:45

content publicly is you need to

36:45

understand your subject

36:48

reasonably well, because you're

36:48

gonna post something. So I

36:51

whether, you know, sometimes

36:51

I'll do a summary of podcasts

36:54

I've listened to or something

36:54

and I want to be able to ensure

36:56

if I take my notes, I want to

36:56

make sure that I know it calm

37:00

confident about the information.

37:00

This year, there's so much the

37:03

social media people post stuff,

37:03

which is you know, it's

37:05

nonsense. There's not thoughtful, it's not been thought through. So allows you

37:07

to do that. So wide subject I

37:12

agree with Andy as a result of

37:12

that. Sometime after about six

37:16

months after doing that writing

37:16

course, I launched my own

37:18

podcast, the award winning

37:18

bulletproof entrepreneur started

37:21

by laughing as true as we won.

37:21

The five star the five star

37:27

bulletproof. Yeah, 4.9 Star 4.9.

37:27

Sorry, almost almost five star,

37:32

just that one, one star, which

37:32

threw me off track. Now, so

37:38

those are the only platforms

37:38

that I'm active on. Like Andy, I

37:42

think his LinkedIn, Twitter,

37:42

slash x and this podcast, and is

37:47

an ecosystem One is not better

37:47

than the other. But it was Andy

37:49

who told me if you're gonna start anything, you got to commit to it. With a podcast, I

37:51

think you said commit to 100

37:54

episodes minimum 100 Nicholas,

37:54

not 99 Oh, that's where I went

37:59

wrong. So you went wrong. So

37:59

commit to 100? I think I'm about

38:02

40 Something at the moment. So

38:02

I'll keep I'll keep going with

38:06

and it is part of an ecosystem.

38:06

Sometimes you work out well, how

38:09

did how did somebody find us was

38:09

a LinkedIn post where and one

38:12

thing leads to another, somebody

38:12

sees something, they check out

38:15

something else and then they go

38:15

and follow other information

38:18

you've shared now. As I say,

38:18

there is a specific strategy and

38:23

as a specific art and I've had

38:23

to learn to be more effective to

38:26

your points call. We're all

38:26

busy, we can't be sitting you

38:29

know, on social media all day.

38:29

So use of scheduling tools I

38:33

have used HootSuite, for

38:33

example. And I was sort of I've

38:37

tried to schedule things men

38:37

often on a Sunday I'll write

38:40

three or four or five things and

38:40

we'll have them sort of drop

38:42

into the various platforms on a

38:42

scheduled time throughout the

38:46

week. So it appears that I'm

38:46

sort of productive and on it and

38:50

I'm not quite as much so it takes a bit of thought takes a bit of practice takes a bit of

38:52

organization now that's all well

38:56

and good but what are the

38:56

results one I've kind of feel

39:00

like raise raise my profile

39:00

probably more people know about

39:03

I've lots of opportunities have

39:03

come my way some are good some

39:06

are less good you know you've

39:06

got you end up having to say no

39:08

to quite a few things because

39:08

there's a lot of people who want

39:11

to you know, pick your brain as

39:11

they say or any other number of

39:15

other ways of of just getting

39:15

involved because of some of the

39:20

stuff I posted but in in in

39:20

reality if this if definitely

39:25

one of the most important

39:25

reasons is business generation,

39:27

new client opportunities, new

39:27

partnerships, everything else

39:31

looking at the numbers we've had

39:31

a good year this year we will

39:33

have had our most successful

39:33

year ever will have the most

39:36

sort of revenue most

39:36

profitability content in its in

39:41

its Thank you.

39:45

Thank you so much.

39:45

Well done, Alan. Yeah.

39:51

Yeah. Congratulations.

39:53

I'd like to thank you guys. I wouldn't have done it without you. It's It's It's

39:55

cannot last. The point being we

40:02

have content creation is our

40:02

second most important source of

40:08

new business referrals actually

40:08

remain rare client referrals

40:12

remain our single most

40:12

important. However, I can see

40:15

that changing next year, I can

40:15

think this sort of content

40:17

creation will become our single

40:17

biggest source of new business

40:21

generation new clients, and new

40:21

opportunities. And I'll sort of

40:25

stop there.

40:27

Okay, I've got a couple of other things to throw in the mix. Scheduling or

40:29

scheduling scheduling is key

40:33

traps an example. It's in the

40:33

diary 2024. We've got 26

40:38

episodes to do we're committed

40:38

is the similar with the other

40:43

stuff. I do humans on a

40:43

management Advisor newsletter,

40:45

it's monthly. So I'm committed

40:45

that needs to be done. You need

40:48

to force yourself to do it. So

40:48

schedule having a schedule

40:51

schedule is key. There's a good

40:51

book on this a guy called Steven

40:55

Pressfield he the greatest book

40:55

ever is called The War of Art. I

40:59

recommend you read it. It's

40:59

really thin. Have it as a bit of

41:02

a Christmas read. He's also got

41:02

another book called Turning Pro.

41:06

I love his writing

41:09

him and you

41:09

mentioned him every episode,

41:12

don't you? It's not that it's a

41:12

random we can we can remote.

41:16

Brilliant. Helped. Helps outs

41:16

when you repeat you.

41:19

You are the king you

41:19

are the king story.

41:22

Regurgitator. Anyway,

41:25

I appreciate your positive feedback.

41:28

Talk about wins. I

41:28

mean, maybe one minutes it is

41:31

still a record though. Amazing.

41:31

goodwill to

41:33

all men. It's sickening, isn't it? Anyway, gone. Alright, coming. So

41:36

I'm gonna carry on

41:36

moving money breached a million

41:39

downloads, which is a pretty

41:39

yeah, pretty big, big target on

41:44

the on the podcast space. Yeah,

41:44

back to Alan's point, the more

41:48

content you put out there, the

41:48

more opportunities come we don't

41:50

know exactly what they're going

41:50

to be. But just just stuff

41:52

happens, you know, sort of

41:52

increase in your luck, surface

41:55

area, whatever you want to call

41:55

it. And also, you should be

41:58

somewhat embarrassed of your

41:58

early content, it means if

42:02

you're not embarrassed of your early content, it means you launch too late. You know, I put

42:04

some terrible stuff out there

42:07

over the years. I mean, it's not

42:07

it's not offensive or anything.

42:09

It's just sort of, you know, bad

42:09

mics, bad lighting, you know,

42:13

badly worded essays or whatever.

42:13

And obviously, you just get

42:16

better and better at it. Here's

42:16

a quote that's going to sort of

42:20

great with Nick, you know, I've

42:20

sort of I've grown up and you

42:23

probably get ready with a drop

42:23

over. I've grown up in public in

42:26

this business. And I'll continue

42:26

to do that. Anyway. Any other

42:30

final points?

42:32

Is that is that the

42:32

quote? Oh, it's just as you say.

42:37

And it's the same as this

42:37

podcast. Trap. It's so it's so

42:42

polished and professional NAMM

42:42

was so respectful to each other.

42:45

Some of those early episodes

42:45

when, when the when the smoke

42:49

alarms going off in the

42:49

background or the Yeah, exactly.

42:52

We should cause heavy breathing

42:52

through the whole thing.

42:56

I'm coughing entire

42:56

time. Yeah, it's a bit rough

42:59

around now.

42:59

It's now it's

42:59

wonderful. It's so professional.

43:02

When you finally

43:03

learn how to connect

43:03

your mic to your computer for

43:06

the first eight episodes. You

43:06

had the mic in front of you, but

43:08

you were using the computer mic

43:08

anyway. It's totally fine to

43:11

make some small mistakes like

43:11

that, Alan, that's how we learn.

43:14

Exactly

43:15

right. I appreciate

43:15

that. And there is a good I

43:19

think I shared it with you guys

43:19

is there's a good podcast out

43:23

let me just see if I've got it

43:23

Steve Sandusky. Some of you guys

43:26

know Steve Sandusky, yeah,

43:26

produces podcast comm or exactly

43:30

what it's called, but worth

43:30

looking at. We probably can post

43:34

a link to this in the show

43:34

notes. But just the last one is

43:36

just a couple of weeks ago, he

43:36

interviews this young financial

43:39

planner in America, obviously.

43:39

And this guy just started his

43:44

own YouTube channel. And he was

43:44

and he's got again, he basically

43:48

unpacks exactly how he does it.

43:48

He goes, he records, I think

43:51

five, under 1510 to 15 minutes,

43:51

YouTube films, whatever you call

43:58

it, YouTube clips, shorts,

43:58

whatever. And he records them

44:02

kind of all at once he Batch

44:02

Records and he did pretty basic

44:04

stuff. He does them in his home

44:04

and his bedroom. And somebody

44:06

films if and he tells you

44:06

exactly how he does it and

44:10

speaks to camera, etc. And I

44:10

can't remember what the numbers

44:13

are. But he is getting just

44:13

hundreds and hundreds and

44:17

hundreds of new business is your

44:17

business inquiries. I think you

44:20

said he's added about 150

44:20

million of assets or 100 20

44:23

million of assets dollars in the

44:23

last 12 months alone just as

44:28

almost everything from this

44:28

YouTube channel. And again, he

44:31

explained that first few are

44:31

absolutely terrible. He's got a

44:34

system that is going to program

44:34

and he's absolutely flying. And

44:38

the other thing I suppose it's

44:38

relevant to this when you create

44:41

content, anyone in theory from

44:41

anywhere in the world can read

44:44

it or consume it as it pertains

44:44

to our work in this kind of

44:49

modern digital kind of remote

44:49

zoom type world that we live in.

44:53

It's perfectly reasonable to take on a client that lives outside of the country, they

44:55

will actually never meet in

44:57

person, whereas the old version

44:57

which you can avoid We're

45:00

looking at your local

45:00

literature, your geographical

45:02

area, hence the needs for people

45:02

used to take your adverts in

45:05

their local paper and stuff.

45:05

It's all kind of gone now. So if

45:07

somebody in Edinburgh just reads

45:07

your blog and loves it, then you

45:12

can engage with them, which is a

45:12

useful benefit as well. And what

45:15

I mean yeah, a good example of that is obviously Pete Matthews who's in Penzance,

45:17

which is in the, you know, the

45:20

center of nowhere, you know,

45:20

still three hours once you get

45:22

to Cornwall to Penzance, but

45:22

obviously, he's been able to

45:25

take on clients everywhere. A

45:25

bit of a humble brag humans on a

45:29

management premium, we've got

45:29

members from 13 countries around

45:32

the world. I mean, that's

45:32

ridiculous. You know, me sitting

45:35

in my little chicken shed and

45:35

hacen and then getting

45:38

subscribers from like Norway and

45:38

Singapore. I mean, it's all from

45:42

basically LinkedIn to LinkedIn

45:42

is a huge huge, huge base for me

45:45

now, that might not be the same

45:45

for advisors looking for

45:49

clients, let's say but it's all

45:49

still part of that sort of

45:51

digital presence. Yeah, it's

45:51

let's

45:54

not let's not let's

45:54

not let's not forget Andy that

45:57

this very podcast, the real

45:57

advisor podcast, yeah, goes down

46:01

now was was the number one

46:01

podcast the number of years in

46:06

Mauritius, Mauritius

46:09

and we're still waiting to close personal friends Harry Smith listening

46:11

Oh, yeah,

46:13

it must it must have

46:13

been and we are still waiting

46:18

for the invite to go out there

46:18

and do a live and in person

46:21

event in Mauritius to all our

46:21

listeners out there. Okay, what

46:25

else it Nick You haven't you

46:25

been quiet but you're you're

46:27

fairly prolific although

46:29

I do yeah. My

46:29

slightly different slant just to

46:32

say by the way I'm very this is

46:32

not part of the kumbaya I love

46:36

it and the Christmas episode and

46:36

the Google tormenting I am I am

46:38

very much respect the content

46:38

that you three put out Carl,

46:42

your your guides are great. And

46:42

obviously a lot of work does go

46:45

into them. And Andy, you're

46:45

renowned for what you do. And

46:47

Alan, I mean, to take one

46:47

example of what you do and the

46:49

threads on I wouldn't call it x

46:49

the threads you don't Twitter

46:51

are always very well composed.

46:51

And it's, it's a credit to your

46:54

children, they can compose them.

46:54

So well on your behalf. Thank

46:58

you. I do content downtime. I'm

46:58

a bit more flippant, and I'm you

47:02

know, I'm very direct and I bit

47:02

perhaps more servic than then

47:06

some elements. So the call can

47:06

be added to my newsletter once a

47:09

quarter and I'm not even sure I

47:09

mean, I've got about 400 people

47:12

who subscribed Now how many of

47:12

them actually read the I could

47:14

check on MailChimp, I don't want

47:14

to check I don't really care.

47:17

And I put this out once a

47:17

quarter and for me it's it's the

47:20

art of actually writing stuff

47:20

helps me just get my thoughts

47:24

organized. That's that's the

47:24

that's, I really do the

47:27

newsletter for myself, just to

47:27

get my head around concepts and

47:30

just just do some research, find

47:30

the figures backup my you know,

47:34

fine, fine, like most things you

47:34

go into, and you've got an

47:37

argument already in your head and then you find stuff that backs up the argument and you

47:39

can find the facts that the argument you know, equity is a

47:40

brilliant, inflation is wrong.

47:43

Mainstream media is an absolute

47:43

millstone around your neck if

47:46

you follow any of it, and most of the people in it are clueless. And it just helps me

47:47

organize my thought process. But

47:51

it also means I have got a whole

47:51

library of articles now that I

47:54

can just reference to Clark, you

47:54

know, I keep a spreadsheet of

47:56

everything I've written and I

47:56

tag it so I know that articles

47:59

on that then I can send it to

47:59

clients or prospects and because

48:03

my newsletters on Squarespace

48:03

you can actually put a hyperlink

48:06

in so although it's a big long

48:06

scrolling page, you can go

48:08

straight to Article Three and

48:08

send that to client it's just

48:11

putting up a resume of

48:11

information that's that's hot in

48:14

my case, I don't know I take it

48:14

to extremes. And so in quotes

48:18

joke's on my political comments,

48:18

but it is very highly

48:21

personalized because you know,

48:21

as you guys do, I believe what

48:24

clients see is what they must

48:24

get right you can't put it on or

48:26

you can't put on a sort of a

48:26

cara pace. You can't maintain a

48:30

two personalities that you've

48:30

got to be yourself all the time

48:33

and and that some people that's

48:33

going to repel and some people

48:36

that's going to attract and so I

48:36

make my content when I do it

48:39

very much about me. I've got a

48:39

few 100 People read my

48:42

newsletter, I probably got a few

48:42

100,000 people because of my

48:46

newsletter, and that was few

48:46

million Nick a few million, a

48:49

few million in the end it but I

48:49

do it mainly for personal,

48:55

personal self improvement.

48:55

That's, that's that's why I do

48:58

that the content and just

48:58

talking I just want to kind of

49:02

segue off a bit bit but in

49:02

marketing, you know, my

49:04

marketing thing is about

49:04

referrals. And that's that's

49:08

where I get all my clients from

49:08

and I after we finished doing

49:12

today's recording of trap, I've

49:12

got whatever you want to call it

49:15

a discovery meeting with with

49:15

with prospects. And long story

49:20

short in 2008 Nine I took on a

49:20

couple I won't give away their

49:23

names. That's D and I couple

49:23

coming into retirement since

49:27

then D has referred his son to

49:27

me and his wife is also referred

49:31

his daughter to me and her

49:31

husband, now the son and wife

49:35

that he referred to me, they

49:35

referred me on to another couple

49:37

so it's like a referral of a

49:37

referral called P and S and P

49:41

and S I've just referred a

49:41

another couple to me who I'm

49:45

meeting with today online for

49:45

this discovery meeting and it

49:48

just cascades down and all of

49:48

these people mix in the same

49:51

milieu they're their children go

49:51

to the same schools that's how

49:53

they met. But the thing is

49:53

people mixed with like me said

49:57

with like and this is the power

49:57

if you do a good I did a good

49:59

job at A D and I, back in 2008.

49:59

Nine he's given me his children,

50:03

his children, they in turn have

50:03

given me their close friends and

50:06

it goes on it goes. And it's

50:06

just this ripple of if you do a

50:10

good job, but they all you know,

50:10

they're all the people, all the

50:14

earners in those relationships

50:14

are all on six figures. Some of

50:18

them start with three and four

50:18

once you factor in bonuses, and

50:20

so forth. So they're really good. They're bright, smart, they want to save their future

50:22

selves. And they're all coming

50:24

to me saying, Nick Lincoln is

50:24

done this for us. We like him.

50:28

And because we're friends with

50:28

you, we'll think you'll like him

50:31

as well, because we you we all

50:31

have the same set of personality

50:33

traits.

50:34

I wonder how they

50:34

introduce you, Nick, do they say

50:36

anything like there's a little bit of a character you've got to sort of take in with Google, I

50:38

noticed, you might appear a bit

50:43

wacky, but

50:44

that's okay. When we come on to them, which you might do in a minute, because

50:46

every 15 minutes when we come on to the TRAPPIST questions, one

50:48

of the questions that the

50:51

question is asked of us is how

50:51

do we what questions do we ask

50:53

clients? In meetings? One of the

50:53

questions I always try to get

50:56

the conversation going, I say, okay, you've been referred to me by by DNI, in your words, what

50:58

did they tell you about what

51:02

I've done for them, and then

51:02

just shut up. And then they're

51:05

gonna say, Oh, you did the

51:05

graph, you did the chart, style

51:09

thing. Open, open, get them to

51:09

talk to you in their words, and

51:15

then you can use their words back to them. That's a very good way of, of pretending you're

51:17

empathetic. Okay? Just

51:23

so just to bring

51:23

this just to wrap up, put a bow

51:25

on this, as we say,

51:27

unmuted, sorry, you're missing your lovely bloody laugh, maybe I think we

51:29

could do a

51:32

little joke,

51:32

pretending I was

51:37

where we live doing.

51:40

I thought, that wasn't a joke. He's been doing that

51:42

65. Just

51:44

to bring that back

51:44

to the subject matter, which was

51:48

we're still this is the third of

51:48

three on business growth and

51:51

marketing and focusing on

51:51

leveraging the power of content

51:55

creation, and whatever format

51:55

you use. Interesting, the I

51:58

would not be surprised if your

51:58

newsletter, for example, as a

52:01

consistent example of your

52:01

thought leadership, content

52:05

creation, wouldn't be you know,

52:05

it might be shared around so

52:08

that Dee and I might ping it

52:08

across the link to once they

52:11

receive it to their friends,

52:11

families, colleagues. Some of

52:15

them may say, Oh, this is

52:15

horrible, I don't like and some

52:17

will say, Oh, I like the way he writes, I like his thought process. You know that. In other

52:19

words, it's another calling card

52:22

that exists out there in the

52:22

world, that people can sort of

52:26

delve into, without the need

52:26

necessarily to make a phone call

52:28

that reaching out making an

52:28

initial phone call or email and

52:31

first meeting first contact is

52:31

quite a big step for people. So

52:34

once you get used to what this

52:34

sort of cut of the person's job

52:37

is. So consecration, whatever

52:37

format you do particularly just

52:43

represents you as an individual,

52:43

you kind of outlook outlook on

52:47

life, and therefore it's either

52:47

going to be engaging or not. And

52:50

the last thing I want to say on

52:50

this and want to leave the

52:53

audience with some practical

52:53

tools, the art of content

52:57

creation, particularly for using

52:57

social media platforms,

52:59

beginning to understand how the

52:59

algorithms work, and how you can

53:02

leverage them to your advantage,

53:02

as opposed to being a victim of

53:05

them. I've mentioned already, if

53:05

someone's serious about this,

53:10

invest the time, invested money

53:10

and learn, check out the ship 30

53:13

for 30 course and the other one,

53:13

which is specifically around

53:16

LinkedIn, which I've done is a

53:16

guy called Justin Welsh, w e

53:21

LSH. He's got a program

53:21

economist about $300 or

53:25

something. And it's just the art

53:25

and science of being successful

53:29

in LinkedIn. And this guy is due

53:29

he's a solo operator working

53:33

from these chicken shed in Idaho

53:33

or something. And he's doing a

53:38

million dollars a year and more

53:38

because he's really understood

53:40

the power and the impact is

53:40

literally shedloads

53:43

Island. He's doing

53:43

like 5 million as a solo Yeah.

53:47

He's doing a lot.

53:47

He's my heroes about it. Yeah,

53:50

spend the time spend the money

53:50

engage in it, and good luck to

53:54

you all, let us know how you get

53:54

on. Okay. Fantastic.

53:58

Fantastic. I think

53:58

we've given that given that

54:00

loads of value there over the

54:00

last three episodes on the whole

54:03

subject of marketing and when

54:03

I'm sure we'll revisit this

54:05

because these things change.

54:05

This is a very fluid fluid

54:09

subject isn't it? Just just the

54:09

tech changes things we can do

54:12

now? We couldn't do 10 years ago

54:12

15 years ago in a loom

54:17

everything that we can do we can

54:17

reach out to people in different

54:19

ways. And it's amazing that it'd

54:19

be all different again in five

54:22

years time it really well. Okay,

54:22

without any further ado then I

54:25

suggest that we move on to the

54:25

next section of the show because

54:30

at the doorbell are the is my

54:30

post lady who is not ringing the

54:35

doorbell must not be working.

54:35

That's all I can think. If this

54:38

is not making the noise, which

54:38

is inconvenient. Nevermind,

54:40

which might kick in in a minute

54:40

hide over me rambling. Now, the

54:45

doorbell button. That's very

54:45

good. That's very good. I might

54:50

refresh if I refresh. Yeah,

54:50

right. Right. Right. Right.

54:54

Right. Right. Right. Right. Jesus wept,

54:55

are you are you

54:55

drops not working today. So Are

55:00

many opportunities brilliant

55:00

they froze when outra was

55:03

talking about how prolific he

55:03

was amazing he is. I

55:06

thought I was I was I

55:06

was waiting for a limit content

55:09

grades just like you're a

55:09

worker. You're an app you're

55:11

Yeah, you're a total worker work

55:15

Correct. Absolute

55:15

shambles, absolute shambles.

55:19

That works.

55:20

But postman the

55:20

doors not working. Okay,

55:22

nevermind. So the postie is here

55:22

and first question is from Who

55:27

is it from? Let's see if we can

55:27

find out who it is from it is

55:30

from Plymouth. Okay, Paul Klee

55:30

with or clue. Paul is a friend

55:35

of the show. Good. Good chap,

55:35

one of the UK is most switched

55:39

on advisors. And I think we're

55:39

seeing him next week, aren't we

55:43

at our lunch club? Ron? Paul is

55:43

our Paul's on Twitter at Paul

55:47

Coworth or Plymouth and also on

55:47

LinkedIn. And I'll put his

55:49

details in the show notes. Okay,

55:49

he asked us what are the best

55:53

questions you can ask a new

55:53

prospective client to get them

55:55

to open up and elaborate about

55:55

themselves, their circumstances

55:58

and their finances? What

55:58

techniques do you use to develop

56:01

the conversation to wow them,

56:01

and to sell them on your

56:03

services? I know what I asked my

56:03

clients, but I'm interested in

56:07

all four horsemen's thoughts

56:07

because great questions lead to

56:09

great answers. That is true.

56:09

Newer advisors can have all the

56:12

qualifications and competence in

56:12

the world, but they must learn

56:15

the art of asking great

56:15

questions, the art of selling

56:18

and how to build value. Mr.

56:18

Smith does want to lead off on

56:23

this. I can see you twitching this long.

56:24

Sorry. We saw Paul

56:24

yesterday, Nick York and

56:27

Alberni.

56:32

We're seeing him

56:32

later on this week when Minister

56:36

abuses recorded the listeners.

56:38

Yeah, this was

56:38

yesterday. It was a great day.

56:41

No

56:42

one cares, Andy.

56:42

Okay. So listen, let me let me

56:45

shambles. Let me get off on

56:45

this. Let me break down. So I

56:49

go. Let me tell you a little

56:49

story about this. And how some

56:53

of the mistakes

56:57

grab yourself a drink?

56:57

A very long drink. It's story

57:01

time with Ellen Smith.

57:05

Water everywhere.

57:05

Thank you. Yes, this is a huge

57:10

subject. I think we've spoken

57:10

about this before somewhat. And

57:12

again, as you say, I said

57:12

earlier on, Nick, there's some

57:14

of the subjects are perennial,

57:14

they'll keep coming up the

57:16

Evergreen, and the evolve and

57:16

the change. So when I went on

57:22

this famous course CEG,

57:22

worldwide, I think these kind of

57:27

Americans came over to London

57:27

and told us all how to be

57:30

successful because they were

57:30

coaches to the elite financial

57:33

planners of the United States.

57:33

But it was there was some

57:36

absolute gems within which we

57:36

still use. So this is where the

57:39

original kind of discovery

57:39

meeting questions came from.

57:41

Because up until that point, we

57:41

were asking what are called fact

57:44

find questions. Tell me about

57:44

your assets, your liabilities,

57:47

your income, your expenditure?

57:47

And they said to us, no, you got

57:50

to ask ask people go deeper, ask

57:50

them about their life, their

57:53

background, their history, their

57:53

all those sort of softer

57:56

questions, and I quite a quite

57:56

liked it. And we had a list of

58:00

64 questions. And they just

58:00

said, just ask them just ask. I

58:04

mean, some of them were just a

58:04

little bit left field, for

58:07

example, asking you about pets.

58:07

Tell us about your pets, what

58:10

are your pets names? What you know, how the what's the relationship? The family? One of

58:12

the questions was, do you know

58:14

Eddie, do you know anybody

58:14

famous? That was a question. And

58:18

it was, but there was a lot of

58:18

science behind it. They could

58:21

identify, they were putting

58:21

people into different

58:23

categories. And then it would

58:23

therefore, kind of it would

58:27

inform your future communication

58:27

style with that client. But that

58:30

will get a little bit

58:30

complicated. So but we did focus

58:33

on out of the 64. There were

58:33

certainly was a dozen or so

58:35

which were really good

58:35

questions. And we started just

58:38

to use them because they said,

58:38

you know, this, this is a

58:42

company out of California and

58:42

California has, I think

58:45

approached things somewhat

58:45

differently to the kind of stiff

58:47

upper lip, Brit. And some of the

58:47

questions they said, Just do it,

58:51

don't ask questions. Just do it.

58:51

Your clients love it. And we

58:53

still we did. And to be fair, a

58:53

lot of clients did love it. But

58:56

one thing he wants to her I

58:56

always remember we were

58:59

introduced to a new prospective

58:59

clients. And this guy was scared

59:03

like some of our clients are

59:03

kind of, I kind of put it so a

59:06

real go getter, entrepreneur,

59:06

very successful guy, started his

59:10

own business, was making a load

59:10

of money and had issues around

59:16

his kind of pension challenges.

59:16

And we set up this we set up

59:22

this meeting with colleague and

59:22

I to do our discovery meeting.

59:25

And I just remember the

59:25

conditions were it was passing

59:28

down with rain outside, it was

59:28

dark, it was about November

59:31

time, it was really dark

59:31

outside. The weather was

59:35

horrible. And the meeting was a

59:35

9am on a Monday morning because

59:37

that's never a you know,

59:37

beautiful time of day or

59:40

experience to have this sort of

59:40

conversation. But we go ahead

59:45

with it. Anyway, and and I

59:45

opened the questioning, I said,

59:51

you know, nice to meet you.

59:51

Thanks for coming in. Let me

59:53

start by asking you the first

59:53

question. And the first question

59:56

was an offered I've talked

59:56

spoken about another example.

59:58

This is a different one. I just

59:58

remembered that this this

1:00:02

experience, and I still have

1:00:02

shutters thinking about it,

1:00:04

because I just opened up with

1:00:04

this, this question which we've

1:00:08

all got versions of it, but we

1:00:08

were told this is what people

1:00:10

want to talk about. Question

1:00:10

number one, what does money mean

1:00:14

to you? What does money mean to

1:00:14

you? And then that leads find

1:00:19

the guys going, what the hell?

1:00:19

What the hell? Where were we

1:00:22

going with this? And then the

1:00:22

second question was, tell me,

1:00:25

what was money like in your

1:00:25

family when you were growing up?

1:00:29

And, and it just felt just

1:00:29

really, really awkward? And he

1:00:33

was sort of say, oh, yeah, and

1:00:33

he did his best to answer it.

1:00:36

But the moral of the story is,

1:00:36

there's two, there's two parts

1:00:40

of the story. One, you can ask

1:00:40

yourself the questions, but the

1:00:43

order in which you ask them is

1:00:43

really, really important. You've

1:00:46

also got to set up the you got

1:00:46

to frame it. Before you start

1:00:50

launching into it, you got to say, look, we're going to ask you a number of questions, we're

1:00:51

absolutely going to get to the

1:00:54

key issues and challenges that

1:00:54

you've got, this guy just had a

1:00:56

pension related issue that he

1:00:56

felt we'd come in and solve. And

1:01:00

we make it clear that we're

1:01:00

going to be saying, we're going

1:01:02

to ask you a number of

1:01:02

questions, one or two of which

1:01:04

might seem a little bit odd. But

1:01:04

it's also really important, as

1:01:07

part of our kind of, you know,

1:01:07

understanding you what makes you

1:01:11

tick and and an order that we

1:01:11

can deliver high quality advice.

1:01:13

So a reasonable question to open

1:01:13

with, is just simply tell me

1:01:20

your story. Tell me tell me your

1:01:20

background, tell me a story.

1:01:23

What brings you to be here

1:01:23

today, the important thing about

1:01:26

that is it gets the client or

1:01:26

the prospective client talking,

1:01:29

because everyone can talk about

1:01:29

that till the cows come home.

1:01:33

And the other thing I can't remember, I mentioned this before, but something is very

1:01:35

specifically that we learned

1:01:37

from these people and we

1:01:37

continue to do to this day is

1:01:39

where you've got a couple,

1:01:39

husband and wife. The initial

1:01:43

question is ask it, you should

1:01:43

be asking them, and you just you

1:01:46

simply state without any sort of

1:01:46

preconceived thoughts. In most

1:01:51

families, one of the couple

1:01:51

tends to take the lead on the

1:01:54

family finances, family bank

1:01:54

accounts, paying bills, etc. May

1:01:58

I ask which of the two of you?

1:01:58

Is it? In my experience without

1:02:02

being sexist? Historically, the

1:02:02

majority, not always, but the

1:02:05

majority has been the male, the

1:02:05

husband, and therefore you very

1:02:11

specifically say, Well, that's

1:02:11

good to know, if I may, can I

1:02:14

start with you, Mrs. Ex Wife,

1:02:14

because you want to get everyone

1:02:19

involved in the conversation

1:02:19

early on, historically, we've

1:02:22

had conversations and the

1:02:22

husband starts talking doesn't

1:02:24

just doesn't stop talking for 20

1:02:24

minutes. And then the the other

1:02:28

half feels less engaged in the

1:02:28

conversation. So those are a

1:02:32

couple of things. But you must

1:02:32

start with these softer

1:02:34

questions. Tell me about your

1:02:34

story. And then you can go into

1:02:37

the other ones. So the order in

1:02:37

which you do it, frame it, set

1:02:40

it up. But also, just be careful

1:02:40

about the time of day, the time

1:02:44

of year, the weather, everything

1:02:44

else, because sometimes people

1:02:47

are just not ready for a really

1:02:47

fluffy type conversation.

1:02:50

Andrew,

1:02:50

thank you for sharing that story. Allen, I haven't heard it 16 times. I'm gonna

1:02:52

keep this quite short. By the

1:02:56

way. That's that's a

1:02:57

that's a different story.

1:02:58

I don't know. Thanks.

1:02:58

So I keep it quite simple. I go

1:03:04

into these sort of meetings with

1:03:04

clients thinking, just having

1:03:08

the conversation with friends. I

1:03:08

keep it quite simple. I open up

1:03:11

with how can I help? And then we

1:03:11

just see where it goes. I asked

1:03:17

that

1:03:17

written down.

1:03:17

Yeah. Yeah. How can I help?

1:03:19

That's one of the ones I was gonna do. Yeah. Sorry.

1:03:21

Thank Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for rudely interrupting, thank you for

1:03:23

bringing my question up. No, no,

1:03:25

thank you for being here today.

1:03:25

And then thought, back to Alan's

1:03:30

point, I say, Who's the CMO? So

1:03:30

who's the CMO here? Who's the

1:03:32

chief money officer in the

1:03:32

house? And then they they look

1:03:35

at each other? And they sort of

1:03:35

decide? Yeah, you're right. It's

1:03:39

an interesting one to open up

1:03:39

with. Yeah, I just try and keep

1:03:42

it simple. I don't be too

1:03:42

contrived. I don't have like a

1:03:45

list of questions. I have tried

1:03:45

different things over the years.

1:03:48

I think now I just go into it

1:03:48

wanting to have a conversation,

1:03:51

see where it leads, rather than

1:03:51

having sort of a set script that

1:03:55

I mean, Paul knows this better

1:03:55

than anyone. He's a superb

1:03:58

adviser. But yeah, thanks for

1:03:58

the question over to you, Carl.

1:04:03

Yeah, kinda like

1:04:03

what Ireland says, right? I

1:04:07

think asking someone what's your

1:04:07

story or, like, just straight

1:04:13

off the bat is, you got to

1:04:13

position it. So that's where I

1:04:16

suppose talking to. I hate the

1:04:16

word prospects, but people who

1:04:20

are not yet clients of ours,

1:04:20

right. We'll talk It's hard,

1:04:25

isn't it to describe exactly

1:04:25

what the financial planning

1:04:28

process is? So it's like, okay,

1:04:28

this is the type of thing we do

1:04:31

and you might give some examples

1:04:31

or whatever, but nobody gets in

1:04:35

to do have a proper chat with us

1:04:35

if they don't first of all

1:04:41

complete to getting to know your

1:04:41

questionnaire as we call it,

1:04:43

right. And so that's the

1:04:43

traditional fact find bit in the

1:04:47

middle, but the precursor is I

1:04:47

have it in front of me. Exactly

1:04:51

like Alan you must have stolen

1:04:51

this from me. So the firt The

1:04:55

first question is that what what

1:04:55

is your story? Your earliest

1:04:59

your earliest memory when it

1:04:59

comes to money. What love this

1:05:04

one, right? This is really important because this will position where you need to go

1:05:06

with the clients. What's your

1:05:08

experience of financial advisors

1:05:08

to date? Imagine yourself three

1:05:13

years from now what makes this

1:05:13

relationship a success?

1:05:16

These are all completely stolen from me currently the source of our

1:05:18

Yeah, we

1:05:21

share information.

1:05:21

And that's it.

1:05:25

The sun gentleman

1:05:25

don't get to help yourself.

1:05:28

That's the downside of in question. The question I believe, yeah.

1:05:31

What what do you

1:05:31

like to do in your spare time?

1:05:34

So you're trying to get it

1:05:34

behind? You know, what, what do

1:05:37

they do? I don't like the Kinder

1:05:37

questions. I think they're too

1:05:41

way too bloody morbid, right. So

1:05:41

once we've asked those at the

1:05:44

outset, then it's the, it's

1:05:44

like, tell us all about your

1:05:47

money. And then at the end, it's

1:05:47

like, what are your top three?

1:05:51

Financial planning requirements

1:05:51

are your money requirements? And

1:05:56

then the last one is if money

1:05:56

was no issue, tell us what you

1:05:58

do. Right. So that's a so we

1:05:58

position it at a at the

1:06:02

beginning, and then at the end.

1:06:02

And that tells them before they

1:06:07

come into us, this is not going

1:06:07

to be like any other discussion

1:06:10

you've had before. This is going

1:06:10

to be different. But we that

1:06:14

they're the only questions that

1:06:14

we have that's in our getting to

1:06:17

know you. And that positions,

1:06:17

how the discussion is going to

1:06:20

evolve. That's what we do. We've

1:06:20

tweaked him over the years.

1:06:27

That's where we're at right now.

1:06:28

We're back to the

1:06:28

world of it's an art and a

1:06:31

science. There's that there's,

1:06:31

there's several different things

1:06:33

going on here. I think, at the

1:06:33

end of the day, we're just

1:06:35

trying to open a relationship,

1:06:35

aren't we, as they say, we're

1:06:38

not trying to close a sale, we're trying to open a relationship. But that's true.

1:06:39

We're trying to be we're trying

1:06:43

to build rapport, we're trying

1:06:43

to create rapport. And one of

1:06:46

the best ways is scientifically

1:06:46

proven of creating rapport is by

1:06:50

asking people questions and

1:06:50

listening intently to their

1:06:53

response. So you just want to do

1:06:53

things where a being human

1:06:56

there's, I mean, because we've

1:06:56

all got this again, we've

1:06:59

mentioned it before the curse of

1:06:59

knowledge, we do it in our sleep

1:07:02

we've been doing for years, we

1:07:02

meet clients, people come in a

1:07:06

lot of researchers, there's people coming to me to financial advisor, often for the first

1:07:08

time often been to see another

1:07:10

one who's a bit more of an old

1:07:10

school, you know, money manager

1:07:13

type thing. It's just a bit

1:07:13

uncomfortable. It's a bit

1:07:16

awkward, and what if they find

1:07:16

me out? What if they realize I

1:07:18

haven't been managing my

1:07:18

personal finances very well, I

1:07:21

might be shamed or embarrassed.

1:07:21

So we just did the The Art of

1:07:26

Asking questions apart from to

1:07:26

elicit some ideas and

1:07:29

information from it's just to

1:07:29

build an open, open relationship

1:07:34

and create rapport through

1:07:34

asking questions that they will

1:07:37

find very easy to answer. So

1:07:37

they're not technical questions.

1:07:42

And the other thing I just want

1:07:42

to throw in in conclusion for

1:07:45

this is, I was I was speaking to

1:07:45

another I think, another friend

1:07:49

of the podcast, certainly a well known adviser to all of his Steve mark, Steve Martin. And

1:07:51

Steve who runs a I don't know if

1:07:56

he's still doing it, he

1:07:56

certainly was running a training

1:07:58

program for advisors, young

1:07:58

advisors, and and it just gave

1:08:02

me some feedback. This is not to

1:08:02

be disrespectful in any way to

1:08:04

any of the advisors that have

1:08:04

been in the program. But he was

1:08:07

saying that a lot of younger

1:08:07

advisors who were doing going

1:08:11

through his program had they had

1:08:11

these they almost had the

1:08:13

questions like you said on a

1:08:13

questionnaire call. And they

1:08:17

would go Mister Mister prospect.

1:08:17

So tell me what was money like

1:08:19

for you and your family growing

1:08:19

up? As if it was, you know, tell

1:08:22

me your address your National

1:08:22

Insurance number? I first would

1:08:25

give the person would give them

1:08:25

the answer. Oh, is it was really

1:08:28

difficult or you'd be didn't have a pot to piss in blah, blah. And they got Thank you

1:08:29

very much tick, right. Next.

1:08:33

Tell me what does money mean to

1:08:33

you? Do you know?

1:08:36

What problems Yeah, terminal cancer? Okay, yeah.

1:08:41

Yeah, no, okay. No,

1:08:41

yeah, yeah, I've got I've got a

1:08:46

pet giraffe. I've got a giraffe

1:08:46

and a monkey. Okay. Next, just

1:08:51

the point is, and he's stating

1:08:51

the bleeding obvious. And I

1:08:54

said, Surely people don't do

1:08:54

that, Steve. And he says, yeah,

1:08:57

they are wet. These are well

1:08:57

intentioned people. But they've

1:08:59

got they've been handed a set of

1:08:59

tools which ask clients

1:09:02

meaningful questions. And this

1:09:02

is where the art comes into.

1:09:05

Because it's actually quite

1:09:05

difficult. You might, you know,

1:09:07

we used to go into this with

1:09:07

arms with a load of questions,

1:09:10

but they'll tell you something,

1:09:10

and all of a sudden, the next

1:09:12

five questions are irrelevant,

1:09:12

right. And so you've got to be

1:09:15

really on your game, you gotta

1:09:15

be able to shape the

1:09:17

conversation and be listening

1:09:17

intently. I don't know about

1:09:20

you. And I've done those meetings in the two hours long and bloody exhausted by the end

1:09:22

of them. Because I'm really, I'm

1:09:25

sort of my brain is trying to

1:09:25

manage a number of different

1:09:28

things going on at the same

1:09:28

time. So you don't just ask the

1:09:32

questions, listen very

1:09:32

carefully, and then shape the

1:09:35

next direction of the conversation.

1:09:36

Thank you, Andy.

1:09:38

Before I have a

1:09:38

discovery meeting with any

1:09:40

client, they fill in my online

1:09:40

discovery form. I know it's

1:09:43

obviously not as good as live

1:09:43

questioning, of course not. But

1:09:46

I'll just give you what the

1:09:46

questions are. So the opening

1:09:48

question is, how did you hear

1:09:48

about us did someone recommend

1:09:50

us? That again, is quite open.

1:09:50

The next question is, how can we

1:09:54

help? The next question is what

1:09:54

is your main financial concern

1:09:56

at the moment? The next

1:09:56

question, which is super

1:09:58

important is have you worked

1:09:58

with a financial advisor before?

1:10:01

If so, how did that go? And that

1:10:01

is a very, very insightful

1:10:06

question for us. So financial

1:10:06

advisor

1:10:09

pointed to himself

1:10:09

as if that's a question. I've

1:10:11

asked that question for years. And then

1:10:13

And then the final

1:10:13

final couple of questions are

1:10:15

did I just go

1:10:15

through all these questions

1:10:18

Lorman it's gonna be carried out

1:10:18

anyway, we're

1:10:20

letting each other

1:10:20

unrelated to other speakers.

1:10:23

We didn't we need

1:10:23

come by our from you by

1:10:27

My next question is what are you looking forward to financial advisor My next

1:10:28

question is do you this is this

1:10:32

is an important one for financial planners. My next question is do you currently

1:10:34

have a written lb specific

1:10:37

financial life plan that's

1:10:37

teeing them up for this is what

1:10:41

we do. And then my final question is what are your hobbies interests or passions?

1:10:47

That's it so all

1:10:47

all the same as what I wrote.

1:10:50

Read,

1:10:51

you are the chief.

1:10:51

You are the chief Cloner car you

1:10:54

are very good at cloning my

1:10:56

friend. Also known

1:10:56

as any take good bits of dealing

1:10:59

filter out

1:11:00

all that to you German.

1:11:02

Okay, Paul Kurth,

1:11:02

hope you've got some value out

1:11:04

of that. And amongst that,

1:11:04

Rubble, yes, so if you think

1:11:09

we'll just have the one TRAPPIST

1:11:09

question this episode gentlemen,

1:11:12

that's okay, because we're in

1:11:12

one hour 10 minutes in. If you

1:11:14

want to submit a question to us

1:11:14

please do there's the link in

1:11:18

the pinned tweet at the top of

1:11:18

our Twitter profile also on our

1:11:21

brand new spanking shining new

1:11:21

website, the real advisor

1:11:24

podcast.com You can submit

1:11:24

questions there also on there

1:11:27

you can register your interest

1:11:27

for what many people are calling

1:11:31

the live event 2024 Trap live

1:11:31

May the ninth venue to be

1:11:35

determined if they ever bloody

1:11:35

well get back to one of us. But

1:11:38

please do look at that and let

1:11:38

us know if you're interested. I

1:11:42

think we should move on. Oh by

1:11:42

the way, and we're only August

1:11:45

with these questions. So we are

1:11:45

going through the hopper slowly

1:11:47

next up is guys Skinner you've

1:11:47

got quite a detailed question

1:11:49

guy which we'll address in the

1:11:49

next episode, but we're we will

1:11:52

plow through Okay, let's try and

1:11:52

seamlessly go on to culture

1:11:56

corner. I've got no idea if this

1:11:56

dropper works I'll press the

1:11:59

thing now there's an awkward silence

1:12:04

absolute shambles,

1:12:05

absolute shambles, right? Isn't it Riverside? Come on, get your thing. Okay. And

1:12:07

the first one is Mr. Smith and G

1:12:14

E M which bills Game

1:12:17

Jam. So as you wish

1:12:17

I could sue culture corners the

1:12:21

both the almost diametrically

1:12:21

opposite, but both are

1:12:25

absolutely worth consuming

1:12:25

watching gem G M, which is on

1:12:31

Amazon Prime. It's just over one

1:12:31

hour, it's a stand up. It's a

1:12:34

guy. So Ozzie guy called Hugh

1:12:34

Vander coulomb Berg, who had

1:12:39

never heard of before, I don't

1:12:39

know what you know, encouraged

1:12:42

me to watch this or, or see the

1:12:42

video, but I did last week. And

1:12:48

it's fabulous. And actually it's

1:12:48

just highly relevant this time

1:12:51

of year, we've all got a bit

1:12:51

more, maybe a little bit more

1:12:53

time on our hands maybe a little

1:12:53

bit more reflective and looking

1:12:57

back at the previous year and

1:12:57

thinking thinking ahead. Yeah,

1:13:01

it's all I would say is it

1:13:01

allows you the G it stands for

1:13:07

gratitude, empathy and

1:13:07

mindfulness. And it sounds a

1:13:11

little I can see Nick's eyes

1:13:11

rolling and just shaking his

1:13:13

head as it is for everyone

1:13:13

except for Nick Lincoln, who's

1:13:19

already the epitome of empathy

1:13:19

and mindfulness and gratitude.

1:13:24

It's just really nice. And it

1:13:24

just tells a lot of stories. He

1:13:27

talks about this talks about

1:13:27

sport, and his examples and real

1:13:31

life things that this guy has

1:13:31

experienced worth an hour of

1:13:34

your time of anyone's time. The

1:13:34

other as I say almost a sort of

1:13:37

direct opposite is something I

1:13:37

just watched at the weekend

1:13:41

going past is the new things

1:13:41

Jeff Bezos interview with Lex

1:13:45

Friedman on the LEX Friedman

1:13:45

podcast, which I watched on

1:13:47

YouTube. It's about two hours

1:13:47

long. Jeff Bezos almost never

1:13:51

does podcasts, interviews,

1:13:51

conversations. This is for

1:13:57

anyone in business or anyone

1:13:57

attempting ever to be in

1:13:59

business. This is a master class

1:13:59

Amazon are just such they are

1:14:04

what do you call it? Andrew? Would you steal it from somewhere else they've

1:14:05

commoditize miracles, the fact

1:14:08

you can click something on your

1:14:08

phone, and the next day or

1:14:12

within hours something is

1:14:12

delivered, and everything that

1:14:14

they do from their Kindle to the

1:14:14

Amazon Web Services is just an

1:14:17

extraordinary operation. And

1:14:17

Jeff, along with Elon Musk is

1:14:21

undoubtedly one of the sort of

1:14:21

your one or two best

1:14:23

entrepreneurs of the last 100

1:14:23

years or so. And he just he

1:14:27

unpacks is basically his secrets

1:14:27

to success to Jeff Bezos on the

1:14:31

LEX Friedman podcast well worth

1:14:31

your time really

1:14:34

really much it's

1:14:34

really really good yes about two

1:14:36

and a half hours long he goes

1:14:36

into a lot of detail about a lot

1:14:38

of stuff it's uh yeah I highly

1:14:38

recommend it a really good

1:14:42

recommendation and

1:14:44

okay, I get that I

1:14:44

find Lex Friedman hard work but

1:14:46

given you guys a boost it up I'm

1:14:46

gonna give you I'm gonna try the

1:14:49

culture I refreshed let's just

1:14:49

see if this works. Oh there is

1:14:55

balanced restore to the force.

1:14:55

Okay. Corner it is made

1:15:00

trillions trillions a book by

1:15:00

Robin Wigglesworth I was gonna

1:15:05

call him wrigglesworth. It's a

1:15:05

Wigglesworth and this is on the,

1:15:08

on the, the rise of the indexing

1:15:08

movement, which has, as we know,

1:15:15

is just it's just now massive

1:15:15

and dominates. And I read a book

1:15:20

this year, but by Charlie Ellis,

1:15:20

the story of the Vanguard, and I

1:15:24

found that quite a dull read

1:15:24

trillions by comparison, I'm

1:15:28

loving you. I haven't finished it yet, but I am actually reading it. Okay. So I can I can

1:15:30

get that into such a corner. And

1:15:33

it's, it's got a lot it goes

1:15:33

back way back then. So at the

1:15:37

19th century, how these early

1:15:37

these early academics were

1:15:40

looking at the Paris stock

1:15:40

market and thinking you know,

1:15:43

there's something funny, there's something going on here, you know, this, this random walks in

1:15:45

it, the prices do appear. And so

1:15:49

it's a lot of historical context, but it brings in everybody in the field. So you

1:15:50

got Rex Cinquefoil, you got your

1:15:54

French and pharma, you've

1:15:54

obviously got Bogle and it's a

1:15:58

really, really interesting read

1:15:58

and written and everything I

1:16:00

start and so I recommend that as

1:16:00

a link to the I'm doing on

1:16:03

Kindle, by the way, and it's a

1:16:03

good consumption because it's

1:16:06

consumed via Kindle. And there's

1:16:06

a link to it in the show notes.

1:16:09

Also in the show notes. I know

1:16:09

that on your award winning

1:16:12

podcast, Alan, thank you. Robin

1:16:12

as a guest on Sirius two episode

1:16:18

three, so I've even put a link

1:16:18

in to that episode. And so you

1:16:21

are so kind is that

1:16:21

is that your Christmas gift to

1:16:23

me? Christmas gift. I really

1:16:23

appreciate it. Robin is a close

1:16:28

personal friend of mine. Come

1:16:28

on, come on. Come on, come up.

1:16:33

Yes, he's a lovely guy.

1:16:34

I've met him several

1:16:34

times. Interesting fact. Robin

1:16:38

Wigglesworth. What nationality

1:16:38

is he Canadian sounds. So it

1:16:42

could not be orangish Norwegian

1:16:42

in Norway, right. Another

1:16:46

potential client of Metis.

1:16:46

Norway. What's this about

1:16:49

Norway. Anyway,

1:16:51

that is our chairman.

1:16:56

Robin because we're

1:16:56

just another sort of just to

1:17:00

back that up. Robin is the

1:17:00

editor of the Alphaville section

1:17:03

of the Financial Times. And that

1:17:03

is the only section of financial

1:17:07

times which is free to anyone.

1:17:07

You don't have to subscribe.

1:17:09

It's not paywall controlled. And

1:17:09

it's very kind of irreverent,

1:17:12

shall we say the right a lot of

1:17:12

just fun, interesting stories

1:17:15

about the world of finance. So

1:17:15

do check out Alphaville at ft

1:17:18

edited by Robin Wigglesworth.

1:17:18

But good shout, Nick. Thank you.

1:17:22

Okay, great. So

1:17:22

I'll just close. My podcast app

1:17:24

that I use is Pocket Cast, and I

1:17:24

pay the annual subscription, it

1:17:27

was 10 quid a year, I got a

1:17:27

notification coming through from

1:17:29

them. I know we're living in

1:17:29

high inflation time for that 10

1:17:32

quid a year is going up to 40

1:17:32

quid a year give or take. And

1:17:36

it's funny about it's a good

1:17:36

example of frame easily because

1:17:38

in the scheme of things, 40

1:17:38

pounds is not really here or

1:17:40

there. But the fact is a four

1:17:40

fold increase has really gotten