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Today with Clare Byrne on RTE

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Radio 1, sponsored by Cash and

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Kerry Kitchens, at the heart of

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Irish homes for over 40 years.

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CashandCarryKitchens.ie. Email

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todayCB at RTE.ie. Now,

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recent dog attack incidents, including the

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tragic death of 23-year-old Nicole Morey,

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have sparked calls for a type

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of dog known as an XL

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Bully to be banned in Ireland.

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And last week the Minister for

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Social Protection Heather Humphries told the

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Shannon that the government is consulting

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the Attorney General on what legislative

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changes would have to be made

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for a ban on that particular

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breed. As the law currently stands,

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there are no banned breeds of

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dogs in Ireland, but there are

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restrictions on 10 breeds. Well, our reporter

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Maura Fay has been looking into whether

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a ban would help to reduce attacks

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and injuries and gauging the opinions of

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those who own and understand XL Bully

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dogs. And Maura is here. Maura, thanks

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for coming in. So we've been hearing

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a lot about these dogs, the XL

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Bully dog. Not everyone, though, would be

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familiar with them because they're a relatively

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new breed, aren't they? They are. I

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spoke to Maureen Byrne. She's a certified

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clinical animal behaviorist and she's based in

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the Midlands. She's 25 years

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experience of dealing with dogs who

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have behavioral issues. She told me that

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they're a very new type of dog. They were first bred

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in the 1990s, originating

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from a breed called the American Bully.

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They're bred to be very big, muscular,

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powerful, and they have their origins in

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the criminal underworld by people who want

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to use these type of dogs for

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intimidation, control, that type of thing. Okay.

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So if that's the case, why do

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people want them as pets? Well, that's

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the question I put to Maureen. She's

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of the view that they're not suitable

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for that. Well, from a behavioral perspective, you're

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looking at a type of dog here that

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is huge for starters and

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very, very powerful. So they are able, if

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they do attack, they're able to do a lot

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of damage and to do it very quickly. They

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were bred to do a... a guarding,

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intimidating type of a job. So,

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and as I say, they're very new breeds.

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So they haven't gone through a process of

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softening their temperament for the pet market.

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So the dogs that we're all familiar

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with, even dogs that are on the restricted breeds list,

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like German Shepherds, Rottweiders, Doberman,

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they've all gone through a long process

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of being made more suitable as pet

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dogs. The

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XL Bully is a mixture

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of a guarding breed with a fighting breed. So you've

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got, the fighting breeds are

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generally very human centric, whereas guarding

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dogs are not, they're very aloof.

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So you've got a real juxtaposition

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and a contradiction of two different

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behaviours mixed into the same dog

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here. And that doesn't

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lend itself to being a good pet

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dog. Okay, it doesn't lend itself to

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being a good pet, but despite that, she doesn't

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believe, does she more, that banning dogs is the

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way to deal with it? No,

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she insists that bans don't work and

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that banning them could drive this underground

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and even spawn a black market in very

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dangerous dogs. For starters, if

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you ban one breed, another one is going to pop

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up, that could be worse. And that is actually what

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has happened in this case. So in

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the UK, for example, they banned the likes of

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Pit Bulls. And now

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we've got XL Bullies have come along to replace them.

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Pit Bulls are kittens compared to XL

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Bullies when it comes to being pet

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dogs. So, you

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know, relatively speaking. So you're

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potentially making the problem quite a lot

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worse than what you had envisaged. You're

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also potentially driving the problem underground that

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you will still get these dogs being produced,

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but because they're on the black market, so

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to speak, the quality,

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any attempt of getting any sort

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of quality temperament or softening

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of temperament into them is not going to happen. You

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also get a very, an

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anomaly whereby if people think

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that a dog has been banned, there's

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an assumption that other breeds are perfectly safe.

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So that has led in Ireland, and we have

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the research to show. this that the

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amount of dog bites have gone

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up since our restricted breed legislation

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came in. In the UK

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they banned four different breeds and the amount

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of dog attacks over there has increased since

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they brought in the ban. So and that

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has been the the model worldwide with with

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one or two exceptions that

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that's that's how it has worked out. So bans

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don't really work. There is a really

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bad lack of enforcement in Ireland.

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Our dog control

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legislation is actually not too bad but

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the enforcement of it has been very poor and

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this is not because it's not the fault of

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the dog wardens by any stretch of the imagination.

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There just aren't enough of them. They

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but they do need to go through a process of

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education and to be

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really much more empowered and resourced to do

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their jobs properly. They also have to deal

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with a sort of a criminal aspect

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to the exhale bully problem because as I

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say they are used within the

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drugs world for intimidation and and we're

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asking dog wardens who there might only

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be one at most two per county

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and we're asking them to to deal

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with the dogs belonging to people who

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are deeply involved in crime.

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So that's Maureen Byrne with the animal

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behaviorist view but you also spoke to

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an exhale bully owner Maura. Yes I

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met Keelan Brennan who owns an exhale

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bully named Mello who's seven months old.

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I accompanied them on a walk on

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near Clingrenan wood near Carlotown and I

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asked him how big Mello is. She

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is quite big and I

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don't think she's going to get too much bigger. She'll get a little

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bit wider I think. I know I'm not sure

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exactly what way she is but I know her brother

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he's 50 kg. Now he she's the runt of the

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litter her brother is 50 kg he's the biggest out

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of litter and that's at seven months

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but he's actually nearly the size of the

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mother but I think I don't think they'll go too much

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bigger than that. Now they are a very powerful dog like

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they're strong but I think it's more of

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awareness you have to train and probably all dogs have to

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be trained probably especially big dogs you have to you

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have to know where you are with them and if there is

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other dogs around you can't just not be

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paying attention and you have to know what they're doing.

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body language also which I think is very helpful. You

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were saying that you had her at Tremore Beach recently?

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Yeah we brought her for a lovely walk down Tremore

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Beach and everyone

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actually a lot of people were very friendly with

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her. My fiancee's mum has a little bee jawn

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so we always socialise her with the bee jawn

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so she's used to small dogs. Little

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small dog was off to lead and come over and

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bit her. No Melo didn't react but it wasn't it

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was just more of a nibble more than that and

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it wasn't an attack or anything like that but it

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was nice to know that at least she

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didn't react. So it was nice

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to actually find out if she would or not.

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What do you make of how XL bullies have

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been portrayed in the media in the last couple

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of weeks? I think it's disgusting

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to be honest which I think in terms of there's

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not common sense being brought into it. I

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do understand completely some of the stuff that's

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been said but a lot of the stuff

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is nonsense that you ask me. I think I

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know when you have a big breed and especially like

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an restricted breed it is down

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to the owners. I do understand that if the

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breed are more powerful but it is all to do

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with what you train them kind of what environment they're

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in. The fact that I think it's better for them

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to be socialised but I find now a lot

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of people I know who listen to the news or

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listen to the radio and stuff like that that they actually

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are terrified of the dog worth before they wouldn't have been.

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Do you think that some people are attracted to owning

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XL bullies for the wrong reasons? Definitely there's a lot

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of people out there that can't look after themselves but

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they'll get a dog like this they're not able to

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look after. The reason we got it was definitely enough

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I know a lot of people they say oh for

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protection and it'll be true about any dog really but

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I don't think all people that own XL bullies or

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Rottweilers or anything like that is for that reason. I

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think all dogs probably should be insured especially big

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dogs. I think all owners of big

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dogs should have to have training so for instance

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like you have to have a car like

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a Terry test for a car like with a

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dog you should probably be something like that

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where you have to kind of take a

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course to know the signs of your dog your

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body language of a dog. That's Keelan Brennan

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and you went then from Carlo to Drogheda

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and you asked people their their view Maura. Yes

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I asked people in Drahara if they thought

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that the XL bully dog type should be

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banned? I do. I think they're

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a very dangerous dog and a lot

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of people take them out and they

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don't have them on proper leads and

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they're a threat to people coming towards

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you. I always feel afraid

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when I see them coming so I do

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think they should be banned. Yes definitely, yeah.

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I think they're bred for fighting and for

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this kind of activity and it's not fair

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on the dog, it's not fair on the

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public. Depends on the owner

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of the dog. It's not necessarily the dog

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unfortunately but again they are a vicious dog.

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They should at least have to be muzzle all the time. No

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I don't. I know people that

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have them and they're gentle joints really you

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know what I mean? They're kind of great

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with the kids so I think it's about

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how the dogs are bringing this. Yes

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because they're vicious, they're killing

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people, naming people. Yes they're

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not attacking strangers, they're

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attacking the people that they live with. I

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wouldn't have one let's say for example. That's

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the view from Drogheda. Now we said at the

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beginning there has been a lot of discussion about

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a ban lately so what's the latest on that

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from the Department of Community and Rural Development? So

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a stakeholder group was set up earlier

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this year and it's currently reviewing dog

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controls in Ireland. It's been asked to

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prioritise the issue of restricted breeds. Minister

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Heather Humphries will meet with the group in

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the coming days. The Department has told me

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that if the group recommends a ban on

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certain dogs the Minister has said she is

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willing to implement such a recommendation. It

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also noted that in light of recent attacks

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it's important to reiterate that restricted

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dogs must be securely muzzled and kept

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on a strong chain or leash, maxed

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two metres in length by a person

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over 16 years of age who is

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quote capable of controlling the dog. Maura

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thank you very much and great to

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have you with us on the on

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air side of the programme. We look

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forward to hearing your reports in the

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coming weeks. That's Maura Fay there reporter.

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Now coming up next. burning of unmanaged

10:02

lands be banned in Ireland to stop

10:04

damage to biodiversity.