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Today with Clareburn on RTE Radio

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1, sponsored by Cash & Carrie

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Kitchens, at the heart of Irish

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homes for over 40 years, CashandCarrieKitchens.ie.

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Well, that race to become the next

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Green Party leader has begun. Pippa Hackett,

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the Senator and Minister of State at

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the Department of Agriculture, has received two

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endorsements so far this morning with TD

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Yoshin Smith and Senator Pauline O'Reilly backing

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her. And in the past few minutes,

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Minister Roderick O'Gorman has announced he's putting

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his name forward, saying that the Green

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Party must prove to voters they're not

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a single issue party. Well, we're joined

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on the line now by Patrick Costolo,

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Green Party TD for Dublin South Central.

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Patrick, good morning to you. Who are

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you backing? Well, I'll

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be backing Roderick O'Gorman. I think

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he has huge experience in the

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party, huge experience in terms of

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elections. He's previously been chair

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and in our party, the chair has

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a special position in terms of

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managing elections and understanding elections. So

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I think we have, you know,

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we have a tough election ahead

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of us. And I think we

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need someone with that experience. I'm

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sure the question you've asked yourself, though, is

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whether a Dublin TD can win your party

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seats in rural Ireland. Well,

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I think they can. I think they can, because it's

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not just about the leader. It's about the

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quality representatives we have around

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the country. I think anyone

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who saw Senator Rosheen Garvey

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on primetime last night will

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know that we do have

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very strong representatives around

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the country in rural Ireland, from

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rural Ireland, who can speak with

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honesty about the issues and needs

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of rural Ireland. But I think

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at the end of the day,

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we need an experienced leader who

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understands elections, who understands the challenge

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we face and who understands that,

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as you said there, that we are

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more than a single issue party. Well,

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that's what that's what Roderick O'Gorman is

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saying. So do you see that as an issue

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for voters? Well, I think

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I was attracted to the

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Green Party as originally as a

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member because while they prioritized the

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environment, it was never exclusively the

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environment. And I think when you

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go knocking on doors, other issues

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come up. People are, you know,

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housing comes up a lot, health issues come up a

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lot. And I think we have

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real solutions there too. And I look

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at, you know, what Roderick has done

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in his department in terms of domestic

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violence leads, in terms of making childcare

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cheaper. And you can see that he's

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actually progressing and having achievements in

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areas outside of our environmental sphere

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that are reaching out to help

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those most vulnerable in society. All

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right, Patrick Costolo, thank you for

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talking to us. That's Patrick Costolo

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there who is backing Roderick O'Gorman.

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Brian Ledin, Green Party TD for

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Limerick. Good morning to you. Who

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are you backing? Good morning, Claire.

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If Pippa decides to stand

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in the election for leader, I'd be

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supporting Pippa. I have

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had discussions with her and I'm encouraging her

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to put her name forward. And

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notwithstanding Roderick's vast

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experience, he's a great candidate, a great

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minister. All

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of the leaders of the Green Party today have

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been Dublin based. And I think it's time now.

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But she is a Tea Shucks

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nominee, Brian, as a senator. Does

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she have what it takes to be elected

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herself in an area where the Green Party

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brand is at its weakest? She's

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not a Tea Shucks nominee. She was elected as

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a senator. Well, it's very different

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now to running in a general election, isn't it? Yeah,

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and I think that with Pippa as the

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leader of the Green Party, we've the best

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chance to win the most seats. And

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I think that's why we should

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make our decision. And I

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think by having a leader who isn't from Dublin, it's not

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the only reason Pippa has vast

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experience in her own right at

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Cabinet. She's

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performed excellently. in her role as super

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junior minister and she sat at the cabinet table managing

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the affairs of the country brilliantly I

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would say in the last four years but

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I think you know we do have as

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a party we have to dispel the

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narrative that we are Dublin centric and if

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we go and elect yet

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another leader from Dublin all of the

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leaders of the Green Party would have

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been Dublin based I don't think that's

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you know that that narrative will just be

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reinforced and I think so that in

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your view has been a failing of the

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of the Green Party Brian up to now

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that you've been seen as a Dublin centric

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party and that has really put rural Ireland

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off the greens is that your view? We

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haven't been Dublin centric you know with

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very strong policies for for our

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regional cities for rural Ireland and for the whole country

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as well as our capital but the

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narrative is very strong that we are Dublin

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centric and I think if we go and

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elect a Dublin based leader

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that the we've had three

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previous leaders Trevor Sergeant John

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Gormley and Damon Ryan all of them have

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been based in Dublin I think we need

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to look outside of Dublin now I think

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Pippa with her experience at cabinet and

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you know that the fact that she

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does understand rural Ireland she's a beef

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farmer herself I think

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it's important that we do dispel the narrative

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and we would do by electing Pippa our

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leader going into the next general election. So

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you don't believe then that Roderick O'Gorman could halt the

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decline? I think

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it'd be very challenging and a

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huge regard for Roderick I had

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good conversations with him over the

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weekend and he's a man of

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immense capability and integrity

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and he's taken on some very challenging roles

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in his portfolios in the last few years and

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he's done very well at those but

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I think fundamentally this is

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about how we will return

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to Dalair and with the most possible

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seats and I believe that if we

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elect Pippa hacking our leader going into the

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general election then we will. Okay,

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Patrick Costolo, Roderick O'Gorman, Brian Ledin

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backing Pippa Hackett. Well, Marco Kossi,

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Green Party TD for Waterford. Good

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morning. Good morning, Claire. So

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who have you decided to back to be the

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next leader of the Green Party? Yeah,

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I'm going to lend my support to Roderick O'Gorman.

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I think Roderick has been in the

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party for some 24 years. When I joined

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the party in 2015, he was

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one of the very first points of contact.

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He was chair of the party at that time. He

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knows every route and branch of

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this party, all through the 32 counties

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because we're an all-island party. And

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for that and for many other reasons, I'm going to

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be supporting him in leadership. If we

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look though at the most recent elections,

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the local and the Europeans, I mean,

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there was a major issue there dominated

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by immigration. You're backing the minister who's

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in charge of that. Some would say

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he's not doing a very good job

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of that. He's been subject to an

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awful lot of criticism in recent times.

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Are you concerned about it? Others

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would say he's not shirked the challenge. It's been

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a huge challenge, not just here in Ireland,

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but all across Europe. Roderick has

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shown real leadership in terms of facing

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up to that challenge. He hasn't shirked

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it in any way. He hasn't shied

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away from the many very difficult issues

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that surround the huge influx of migration,

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particularly driven by the crisis in Ukraine

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that we've faced up to and faced

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up to well on the whole over

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the last number of years. There have

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been some hundred thousand people who've been

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provided shelter in this country over this

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time. And that's something that he's overseen.

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There are challenges, absolutely. And

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Roderick will be very clear and upfront about

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those challenges, things that we need to face.

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But I think when there was a huge

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need for the country to respond, I think

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Minister Roger the Cougherman led that response. Now,

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earlier we heard from Osheen Smith on

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Morning Ireland, who said he was backing

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Pippa Hackett. And there is this perception

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that the Greens is anti-rural. Osheen Smith

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feels that someone like Pippa Hackett, who

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is a beef and sheep, who's

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from rural Ireland can counter that narrative.

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There is huge value in that, is

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there not? Yeah,

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I understand that and I have huge time for

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Pip. I work very closely with her. But I

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would say I have a real role in responsibility

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in terms of not just rural Ireland, but Ireland

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outside of Dublin. And we have many

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deputies, we have many representatives who can

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carry that voice, who can speak on

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behalf of, be it Wartford, Limerick, Cork,

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Galway, wherever it

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is, leash awfully indeed. And

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not just to concentrate on rural Ireland,

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my constituency would be a very good

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example. We both have those rural and

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urban populations within my constituency. So

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I absolutely accept that the Greens need to

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get better at speaking to people outside of

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Dublin. But I think that's a responsibility that

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lies on all of us as a party.

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And I don't think Roderick is the

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wrong person to lead that either. As

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I said, he's been true root and branch of this

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party over 24 years. And

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I think the commitment that he brings to social justice

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is very important because one of the other issues

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that is often leveled at the Green Party is

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that the way that we're doing this transition isn't

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bringing everybody with us. We have two,

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well, four founding principles, but the first

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two is about tackling the environmental crisis.

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And the second is about social justice.

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And you can't separate those two things

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if we're to have a meaningful and

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successful transition that brings people together. Those

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two are absolutely integral to the other.

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What you haven't said there is that you

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believe Roderick O'Gorman is the right person to

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talk to rural Ireland with respect and to

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bring them on board. You're saying that all

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of the others have a job to do

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that. Do

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you think then Pipa Hackett is the right

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person if that was your foremost concern here

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in electing a new leader? I

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think Roderick is the superb communicator.

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I think Pipa is an excellent person for

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the job as well. But I have no

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concerns about how we communicate. If

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we install Roderick as the leader, I'm just

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saying that I also have a responsibility. as

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a parliamentary party, excuse me,

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Claire, shared that responsibility. But

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I have every confidence that Raar most

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of the party have known about his intentions to

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leave for the last few months. So if had

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time to plan this, you would have seen Roderco

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Gorman's video smored social media. That

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doesn't look like something that was thrown together

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overnight. So that

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perhaps where the Greens are

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putting forward this platform that there is a kind

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of division in the party. But I think the

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end goal here is really to have Roderco Gorman

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as the leader and Pippa Hackett as the deputy

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leader. So you're saying despite what we've

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heard with people declaring support for either candidates,

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you feel it's a done deal, do you?

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It does feel like that. I wouldn't be

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shocked if by the end of the week

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they decide that there is no need for

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a contest. But at the same time, the

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contest will give them an opportunity to put

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forward the different ideas that other sides of

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the party. Like you do have Pippa Hackett

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who is, who has made money out of

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the Green Agenda, who has embraced

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the farming method.

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Why do you say that? Because she's an organic farmer. Yes,

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exactly. So she's used the various things that

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are there to promote this and has done

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it quite successfully. I'm not saying that in

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a bad way whatsoever. I'm just saying that

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that is an appeal that they could give

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as the Green Party. Here is someone in

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the senior ranks of the party who has

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embraced the Green Agenda and has made some

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money from it, which isn't a bad thing.

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And I think that's what they're trying to

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get out as a policy platform for rural

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Ireland. And then on the other side of

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it, you have Roderco Gorman, who has proven

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himself to be a more than capable minister.

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Every problem in government seems to land

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on his desk and he's been dealing with

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it as best he could given the circumstances.

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So look, for me, I would

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be shocked and appalled if it isn't

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Roderco Gorman and Pippa

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Hackett as the leadership of the new party come what

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may, whether it's by the end of the week or

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the next three weeks. Well, we'll see what

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happens as time goes on. Philip, thanks very much.

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Philip Ryan there from the Independent. Aiman Ryan will

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be with us after this. Text

13:55

51551 today with Claire Byrne on RTE Radio 1. one.