0:00

Hey, Prime members. You can listen to this

0:02

job as history early and ad free

0:04

on Amazon Music. Download the

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app today.

0:15

Hi there. This job is history listeners.

0:18

It's your fearless producer, Linda here.

0:20

Chris is off this week, so I'm in the

0:22

drivers. Seat for today. Now, normally

0:25

on this show, we talk to people from the

0:27

past about their odd and very important

0:29

jobs that no longer exist. But

0:31

I've always wanted to talk to real people

0:34

from the present about the strange and

0:36

quirky jobs they've had. So

0:38

each season I'll be bringing you one

0:41

special interview with the guest who lives

0:43

in the here and now. Today,

0:45

I wanna start us off with a story. upon

0:50

a time in the not so distant past,

0:52

there was a cable TV station. And

0:54

on this station, they played

0:57

music videos. I'm

0:59

not talking about fifteen second smartphone

1:01

videos. I'm talking about three

1:04

minute cinematic jewels from

1:06

the biggest fans on Earth. That

1:08

station was MTV. In

1:11

its heyday, throngs of young adolescents

1:13

would print home from school to get

1:16

their fix of loud music, big

1:18

hair, and rebellion that only

1:20

MTV could provide. But

1:22

what would MTV be without its MCs?

1:25

Those hip twenty something hosts

1:27

who teed up our favorite videos and

1:29

opened our eyes to a whole new universe

1:31

of cool. Through NewWave, punk,

1:34

and glam, to hip hop, brunch,

1:36

and boy bands, they were

1:38

our favorite guides, MTV's official

1:41

mascots. On today's show,

1:43

we meet the VJ. From

1:49

Wondery, this is this job is history.

1:52

With me, Linda. On

1:56

this week's episode, so you wanna be

1:58

a VJ. With special guest,

2:00

former MTV VJ, Dave

2:04

Holmes. Most

2:10

people know Lucille Ball as the goofy housewife

2:13

from I love Lucy. Everyone loved

2:15

Lucy. But in our new series, Lucille

2:17

Ball, Queen of comedy, will tell you how she

2:19

had to survive childhood trauma, professional

2:21

rejection, and a toxic marriage to

2:23

learn to love herself. Listen to even

2:25

the rich on Amazon music or wherever you

2:28

get your podcasts. Welcome

2:36

to this job is history. My guest

2:39

today is Dave Holmes. Dave

2:41

is Esquire Magazine's editor at

2:43

large and cohost of the queer centric

2:45

podcast, homeophilia. He's

2:47

also the author of Party of One,

2:49

a memoir in twenty one songs.

2:52

But before all of that,

2:54

You guys, Dave, was an MTV

2:57

VJ, teeing up music videos on

2:59

shows like a hundred and twenty minutes, and

3:02

my personal favorite total request

3:04

live. He got his start at MTV

3:06

in the late nineties when he entered the station's

3:09

first wanna be a VJ

3:11

contest. Dave Holmes, welcome

3:13

to the show. Thank

3:14

you so much for having me, Linda. It's good

3:16

to meet you. I am so excited that

3:18

this is going to be my first interview

3:21

of our little spin

3:22

off. I'm usually kind of behind the scenes.

3:24

I

3:24

didn't realize this was first.

3:26

It is. How excited? It's very,

3:28

very exciting. I wanna dive right into

3:30

it.

3:30

Let's do it. First, let's address the elephant

3:33

in the room. For our listeners of a

3:35

certain age, maybe they're not familiar

3:37

with the

3:37

VJ. Can you tell

3:39

us what

3:40

VJ stands for? It stands

3:43

for video jockey. Okay.

3:45

It was sort of a play on It

3:48

used to be people would play. Like literal

3:50

discs, albums, records on

3:52

the radio. And then MTV came

3:54

along and played videos and

3:57

had VJ's video junk. Okay,

3:59

Gen Z listeners, Millennials. Take

4:01

notes. This is history.

4:03

And that is indeed history. There's

4:05

a job that simply does not exist

4:07

anymore. I do have to say that having

4:09

you here is really bringing me back to my

4:12

grade school days now listeners will

4:14

know that I was a bit of a golf,

4:16

emo, pop, punk, girl.

4:19

What are we talking about? Well so

4:21

I I mean, I did attend

4:24

TRLA couple times. And stand up

4:26

at the window, you might remember

4:27

me. I was wearing an avriluvian tie.

4:30

Oh, yeah. Purple hair.

4:31

The purple hair.

4:32

As waiting for the new Good Charlotte video

4:34

to come out.

4:37

Yes. You did look familiar. It's good to see you

4:39

again.

4:39

Yeah. Yeah. I was out there screaming, but also

4:41

trying to play it cool.

4:42

Of course, the delicate balance of any golf

4:44

game. Absolutely. Okay. We're gonna

4:46

get back to TRL and your days as a VJ, but

4:48

first, I'm hoping that you can take us

4:50

back to the birth of MTV

4:53

and the moment that, like, you first

4:55

discovered it. Where were you? How

4:57

old were you? Set the scene for us?

5:00

I'd love to. MTV premiered

5:02

in nineteen eighty one, August first nineteen eighty one.

5:05

They make you take a history class before you get the job.

5:07

That's not true. They just know that. But

5:09

I was ten and I remember I heard

5:11

about it on the playground. I heard about it

5:14

by rumor before I

5:16

saw it. There was talk that there was gonna

5:18

be a twenty four hour music video which

5:20

is, at the time, was

5:22

all I wanted. The power of

5:24

I video, power of sound,

5:28

TV, music television. Ladies

5:30

and gentlemen, rock and roll. We did

5:32

not have cable. My parents thought cable was an

5:34

indulgence. They thought it was full of filth. They

5:36

weren't wrong. They get down the street,

5:38

had it. All I wanted to do was be in front

5:40

of MTV. I had a video

5:42

game

5:43

system. All this kid wanted to do was play video

5:45

games. So we would trade.

5:47

An exchange.

5:48

We would exchange. For every

5:50

minute that he got to play Odyssey at

5:52

my place

5:52

Mhmm. -- I would take a corresponding

5:54

minute and sit in front of the TV and watch, you know,

5:57

Daxi's midnight runners videos on MTV.

6:00

At the time, not every artist was making videos,

6:02

so out of necessity, they

6:04

played a lot of Rod Stewart, and

6:06

then a lot of like up and coming British artists

6:09

with cool haircuts, like Culture Club and Human

6:11

League and Duran

6:12

Duran. Those were the only artists

6:14

who making videos. Right. So what were you

6:16

feeling as you watched those first

6:19

videos? Were you already a big

6:21

music

6:22

fan? Definitely was. And

6:24

when this sort of British invasion

6:27

of beautiful bands and pancake makeup

6:30

exploded. It was like, first of

6:32

all, this looks like the world that I wanna

6:34

live in because I didn't like to talk

6:36

about sports and I didn't like to, you know, play

6:38

with GI Jones. I was like, these

6:40

are my people. And then also like

6:42

rock and roll scared parents, but

6:44

that first MTV wave

6:47

of bands kinda scared my older brothers. It's

6:49

like this is awesome. This

6:52

is where I live. And and

6:54

it just gave me a north star that sorta

6:56

carried me through my

6:57

life. Yeah. I I remember

6:59

as a kid when I first discovered

7:01

it. It really did feel like this new

7:04

level of enjoying music.

7:07

And I think that's such a universal experience.

7:10

So what do you think separated MTV

7:12

from the music shows that came before

7:14

it? Like American bandstand or

7:16

Soul Train? What was so revolutionary

7:19

about it. I think it

7:21

felt like the kids

7:23

were in charge at MTV. You

7:26

know, Dick Clark was great. Don

7:28

Cornelius was great, but they were, like, guys in their

7:30

fifties. Yeah. And they they

7:32

put on good shows but you couldn't miss the

7:34

fact that they were a generation or two older than

7:36

you. It really felt like MTV

7:38

was like a product of

7:41

the actual generation that was watching

7:43

it. It felt like young people who'd

7:45

been given control and didn't quite know what to do

7:47

with it. It felt crazy and

7:48

chaotic. There was so much time to fill they

7:50

had the spirit of of, like, real youth.

7:53

Yeah. Okay. So what could you

7:55

see on MTV in those

7:57

early days? In the early

7:59

days, really MTV was just

8:02

videos twenty four hours a day. It would be a block

8:04

of like three videos. And then it would go

8:06

back to the studio And it would almost look like

8:08

a comedy club. There was like a fake brick wall

8:10

and some neon. And there

8:12

there was an original group of five VJ

8:14

who were like, very

8:16

cool early eighties, skinny

8:19

ties, cool haircuts. I

8:22

remember thinking they must be the

8:24

coolest people in the because they're in this

8:26

clubhouse and they're like a part of

8:28

this world and yet they're not musicians

8:30

themselves

8:32

and that's like that's the job that

8:34

I want. Let's review.

8:36

Let's say we're doing an indeed post

8:38

about VJ. What are the core

8:40

responsibilities? Core responsibilities. The

8:43

basics are, you gotta say what video that

8:45

was, you gotta say what video's coming up, you gotta

8:48

talk about music, you gotta talk to the artists,

8:50

gotta think on your feet. Gotta be able

8:52

to perform on live television. Gotta

8:55

be able to work with an audience that

8:57

might get unruly. You gotta be able

8:59

to read a teleprompter or a cue

9:01

card. You gotta be comfy with

9:03

with total chaos. Comfortable with

9:05

total chaos. That's a great thing to add

9:07

to any indeed. Listing. French.

9:10

Comfortable with total cast. Yeah. So do

9:12

you remember the original

9:15

five like, who were they and

9:17

also, like, what was their thing? Like, did each

9:19

of them have a kind of personality? I imagine

9:21

that's what they were trying to

9:22

do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was like the Spice Girls.

9:24

So there is Mark Goodman. I'm Mark Goodman, and I'll

9:26

be here this time every week night. He had

9:29

to gravitas kinda he seemed

9:31

like a radio guy. Mhmm. He had a

9:33

big curly mane of hair.

9:35

There's Allen Hunter sort of the blond

9:37

and kind of southern windsome every man.

9:40

That's and with myself, music from Billy

9:42

Idol right here on MTV. VJ Jackson,

9:44

who was a radio guy who had been around for

9:46

a while.

9:47

Alright. I'm VJ Jackson and I'll be sitting

9:49

in with the latest video music performances, the

9:51

way they were meant to

9:52

be. That's insane. Who's the only person of color

9:54

in the in the group? Nina Blackwood was

9:56

like the rocker chick. She had like a raspy

9:58

voice and like ringlets of

10:00

blood

10:00

hair. Once in a lifetime, David the

10:03

talking head and you had Allentown

10:05

done by Billy

10:06

Joel. And then

10:06

there's Martha Quinn who is like this

10:08

girl next door type with like a cool little

10:11

pixie hair

10:11

cut. That is the little river band doing

10:13

night out. I'm Martha Quinn. Thank

10:16

you ever so much. She seemed sweet,

10:18

but Steve Bader's he

10:20

was like this crazy punk rocker, and that

10:22

was her boyfriend after a while. Oh,

10:24

shocking. Because, like, Martha's

10:27

so sweet. It's Dave Baters.

10:29

He's like, as bad as it gets.

10:31

Yes. Sweet girls love

10:33

a skater boy. That's Abercrombie. Right.

10:36

Touched on this in her work. Yeah.

10:40

So, okay, did you have a favorite

10:42

or one that you aspired to be

10:43

like? In, like, the mid eighty's lady's.

10:45

There was a guy named Kevin Seal, and

10:47

he was just like this big goof --

10:49

Mhmm. -- just like this sort of enduring personality

10:52

of

10:53

And that's not all. Because

10:55

it was like, I liked him

10:57

and I thought it was funny and I was attracted to

11:00

him and I was

11:00

like, maybe that's where I fit in the world. Both.

11:02

B to Vijay was so much more than just teeing up

11:04

music videos. You're like a VJ. You're a

11:07

TV host. You're a music journalist. You're

11:09

also a talent wrangler, which

11:11

I, you know, doing my capacity

11:13

here on this job is history.

11:15

Yeah. So what do you think makes

11:18

a great VJ? Are there certain

11:20

qualities

11:21

that you think of the best ones had

11:25

I think you had to be, like,

11:28

in the world but not of

11:30

it. It was like you were cool to

11:32

hang with these people, but it wasn't like,

11:35

hey, I'm gonna

11:36

go, we're all gonna hang out afterwards. Do you think

11:38

that maybe this idea that the VJ's

11:41

are kind of standing for you

11:43

hanging out with the band. Their yeah.

11:45

Their your link to the bands and

11:47

their hanging out with them in your

11:50

stead kind of was a part of

11:52

their appeal? Yeah. It makes it

11:54

feel more like accessible and make the

11:56

the viewer feel at home. For sure. And

11:58

back from those early days, can you remember a

12:00

time where a VJ did something that really

12:03

impacted you or stuck in

12:05

your

12:05

mind, does funny, or interest thing

12:07

or cool. In the mid eighties,

12:10

they started doing spring break. I

12:12

think the first few were in Daytona Beach,

12:14

it was, like, the people who I knew from the studio

12:17

were suddenly out in the wild. Mhmm. And they

12:19

were, like, in crowds of people or on a stage

12:21

in front of thousands of people, like,

12:23

screaming drunk college kids, like

12:26

Parnell in their ass off college kids.

12:28

And the way that the,

12:31

like, MTBBJs could like

12:33

Parnell them like the red sea, you

12:35

know, silence them with a wave of the

12:37

hand, you know, or get them to cheer

12:39

or whatever just felt like

12:40

you're, like, conducting an orchestra. Absolutely.

12:43

And and I imagine that they're, like, okay.

12:46

Well, this is the president of

12:48

spring

12:48

break. So we Yes.

12:51

We have to listen to them.

12:52

He's

12:53

an authority figure who you have to respect.

12:55

Exactly. Yeah. Okay. Was

12:57

there ever a moment when

12:59

you thought to

13:00

yourself, you're watching these shows, you go, okay,

13:02

I wanna be a VJ or I think

13:04

I could do that? Sure. Yes.

13:07

Yeah. No. Immediately, I was like, because

13:09

I'm not I'm not a musician. And,

13:11

like, I sort of I did I was, like,

13:13

a little bit of an actor when I was young, but

13:16

that yeah. For sure, that job was,

13:18

like, That was the

13:20

job that I wanted, the first job

13:22

that I was

13:23

like, I can't explain it. I don't know exactly

13:25

what I'd bring to it, but that's the job that I

13:27

want but I

13:28

but it was a pipe dream.

13:30

Alright, guys. After the break, we're gonna hear

13:32

from Dave about how his wildest dreams

13:34

became a reality when he entered

13:36

MTV's first ever wanna

13:38

be a VJ

13:45

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A

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few days before Christmas, Janelle Matthews

14:36

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14:38

were no signs of a struggle, no eyewitnesses,

14:40

no DNA recovered. What

14:43

if the answer had always been there?

14:45

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14:47

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14:55

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14:57

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15:00

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He says, don't work with me, officer Edgerton.

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15:16

Follow suspect wherever you get your

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15:37

And we're back on this job as history

15:39

with Dave Holmes, a former MTV

15:41

VJ, and stand up comic. Okay,

15:43

Dave. Let's talk about your big

15:46

break. Okay. How did your

15:48

journey to becoming a VJ

15:50

start?

15:51

In nineteen ninety eight, I was living in New

15:53

York. I was working in advertising. I

15:55

was bad at a job that I hated.

15:57

And I was at a stage of my life I was

16:00

twenty seven where I was like,

16:02

why am I here? Like, I'm doing

16:04

all this stuff and I'm not leaving

16:06

my life that I went on At work,

16:09

I was looking on billboard dot com.

16:11

On Tuesday mornings, the charts came out

16:13

and I wanted to check Wondery hundred Mhmm.

16:15

But then off on the margin, it was like news stories

16:18

and one of the news stories was MTV is having

16:20

an open call for VJ's. And I was like, there

16:22

it is. That's the job that I want. I'm gonna go

16:24

try and get So I called in sick.

16:26

And I got up super early, and I stood

16:28

in line in Times Square. How?

16:31

On an April morning, It ended

16:33

up being this televised thing where they

16:35

chose the top ten and viewers

16:37

by phone

16:38

vote.

16:38

Okay. Wait. So This was it was, like,

16:41

an American Idol

16:42

-- Yes.

16:43

-- model, nineteen ninety eight.

16:45

Yeah.

16:45

So it was, like, three or four years before

16:48

American Idol. So you show up

16:50

for this audition. You waited in line.

16:52

Uh-huh. What actually

16:54

was the process Did they just

16:56

throw you up on TV the next day? So

16:58

I went in on a Monday morning. All day long, they were

17:00

seeing people. And it was in the big

17:02

Times Square studios, with the big windows

17:04

that looked out onto Broadway. I had to, like,

17:07

read a cue card and answer some questions about

17:09

myself and then act like was thrown to

17:11

a video or whatever. They

17:13

were like, alright, if you made the top ten, we'll let you know by

17:15

midnight tomorrow. They called me

17:17

look like eleven fifty seven on Tuesday,

17:19

and then I had to be in the studio the next

17:21

day. There was a daily live show that was just

17:23

before a TRL. It's called MTV Live. And

17:26

we were on it for Wednesday and Thursday.

17:28

And they kind of whittled us down. And then

17:31

by Saturday, there was an all day

17:33

event. It was live. I have it

17:35

on VHS. I'm afraid to watch it.

17:37

That okay. So I'm imagining this, like, navy

17:39

seal boot camp for DJs where

17:41

you're running through it. You've gotta

17:43

dodge people in time square and

17:46

bench press microphones or whatever else.

17:50

Were there, like, challenges that you had

17:52

to do? Take us through some of the

17:54

challenges. There were. Okay. So

17:56

Wednesday, all ten of us had

17:59

to interview Chris Catan on

18:01

Saturday night live at the time. Interesting. And

18:04

Chris Catan was like different kind of difficult

18:06

interview for each of us. Right? So

18:08

sort of like improv and thinking on your

18:10

feet and dealing with difficult talent

18:12

and macadamiaamiaamiaamiaamiaamiaamiaamiaamiaamiaamiaamiaamiaamiaamiaamiaamiaamiaamiaamia And

18:20

then after that, it was like he had to run to

18:22

the Virgin Mega Store across the street and pick

18:25

three CDs and explain why Kathy

18:27

Griffin then stood in as the

18:30

person who is a difficult interview for all

18:32

of

18:32

us. Do you remember what Kathy Griffin

18:34

or Chris Catan did to be

18:36

difficult interviewers?

18:37

Like, how did they try to get you? That moment.

18:40

Kathy Griffin was really flirty

18:42

with me. So she, like, sat

18:44

in my lap and,

18:45

like, Thank god. I'm gay. Didn't work.

18:47

Well, she I think she sensed it. Because

18:49

think she did. I think she did.

18:50

That's her that's part

18:52

of her power. I think

18:53

she has a type.

18:54

And did you have to do like a like

18:56

a cue card

18:58

There was a cue card shout. I think there was

19:00

a teleprompter challenge. You had to

19:03

talk to Curt the eminent Curt

19:05

Loader --

19:05

Wow. -- about music. There was

19:07

like a music Trivia sort of

19:10

quiz show thing. We had to

19:12

give a campaign speech in Times

19:13

Square. That just came back to me.

19:16

I completely forgot about that. I understand

19:18

why you would black that out. Yeah. So

19:20

the fans are voting for you. The MTV

19:22

audience is loving you. As you're getting

19:24

deeper and deeper into this contest, like,

19:26

at what point did you start to feel

19:28

like, oh, wow. This is really happening.

19:31

It was so utterly like

19:34

head injuries surreal. The whole time.

19:36

Like, I I True. It was so it

19:39

was, like, Dorothy stepping into us. Yeah.

19:41

You know, like, every everything was just, like,

19:43

in full color, and I couldn't quite take it

19:45

all in. whole time I was like, I'm never

19:47

gonna I'm not gonna get this. There's no way I'm

19:49

gonna win this thing. But

19:52

I'm in this building now. And

19:54

they're gonna have to pull me out of here,

19:56

basically. Like, you know, I

19:58

was like, my job is to

20:00

lose and is to like get

20:02

as many business cards as I can and

20:05

try to figure out where I fit in into

20:07

this

20:07

thing.

20:08

So your stiffest competition --

20:10

Mhmm. --

20:11

was

20:11

a guy named Jesse Camp. Yep.

20:14

I would say you and Jesse have wildly

20:16

different energies.

20:17

Yeah, we're a real study in contrast. They're

20:20

going to have a shot at it. I

20:22

mean, it's it's great, you know. It's

20:24

the best job in the world and so hey,

20:26

I was gonna you know, I

20:27

heard, you know, hey, why

20:29

not? Right?

20:30

Everyone can take a

20:31

shot. What was the question?

20:33

Can you describe Jesse

20:35

for us. Okay. I can

20:37

tell you what I saw when I first

20:40

saw him. He was in line with me

20:42

and so we kept passing each other. My

20:44

first thought was, like, she's gorgeous.

20:47

Like, super tall. He's, like, six, eight

20:49

cheekbones, like, willowie. Mhmm.

20:53

And if you've ever lived in New York, he

20:55

is like one of the kids who who wouldn't hang out

20:57

on Saint Mark's Place. Mhmm. Just sort of

20:59

like a rock kid with big hair and

21:01

a lot of personality. Yeah. He has

21:03

the vibe of, like, the Stoner

21:05

guy at every high school.

21:07

Yes. And it's interesting

21:09

to compare the two of you where I feel like your vibe

21:11

is a lot more, like, intentional.

21:14

I know about this stuff. Right. And

21:16

he's like, I wandered into the

21:18

building.

21:18

Yeah. Exactly. Exact nobody stopped me.

21:21

Well, again, I was twenty seven, and he was eighteen.

21:23

So

21:23

Wow. He was eighteen.

21:25

Teen, which, I

21:27

mean, thank God, nobody put me on TV. I

21:29

see team.

21:30

Yeah. No. I I thank God for

21:32

that every day.

21:32

Yeah.

21:33

Alright. Let's get to it. So it comes down to YouTube

21:35

in the finals. Yep. Imagining a

21:37

big triumphant

21:38

moment. Yeah. There's balloons. It's American

21:40

Idol. You're standing there holding hands

21:42

like Kelly and Jesse Garena.

21:45

A little bit So okay. How did the

21:47

actual announcement of the winning

21:49

go? And how did you feel in

21:51

that moment?

21:52

Okay. So it is down to the two of us.

21:54

And I remember in my head

21:56

it was like it's gonna be him. It's gonna be him. It's gonna

21:58

be him. Just like put a smile on your face

22:01

and get through this moment because it's gonna be him.

22:03

And then just before I was like, what? And

22:05

then it was him? It was not me. So,

22:07

like, there there I had, like, a nanosecond of just

22:09

being, like, what if? But then it was him.

22:12

And he got the big oversized novelty check, and

22:14

they took him into another studio where there was,

22:16

like, press conference. And they started cleaning

22:18

up the studio.

22:19

Yeah. That was,

22:19

like, just leave you in the room. So We're we're yeah.

22:22

We're at the lights. And then also, like, I mean, yeah,

22:24

of course, it was disappointing, but it was also really

22:26

cool. If it had just ended there, it would

22:28

still be a really fun

22:29

story. I would tell for the rest of my life.

22:31

Absolutely. But it doesn't end

22:33

there. So, okay, you come in second place.

22:35

At what point does MTV come

22:37

to you and

22:38

say, you know what? Actually, you

22:40

are gonna get to do it. We'll get

22:42

this. I got a a million business cards

22:44

in the first thing Monday morning. I just

22:47

called and emailed and like, trying to set up meetings,

22:49

and started getting some meetings, and they had

22:51

all this stuff that needed bodies,

22:53

needed hosts, and they have this new guy

22:55

Jesse who's making headlines but

22:58

is a little too scattered

22:59

to, like, you know -- Yeah. --

23:01

teach, hey, here's how this new show works and you're

23:03

gonna be the host of it and whatever. And so I

23:05

tested for a couple. And one of

23:07

them became a pilot and then that pilot

23:09

got picked up and became a show and they were like, alright,

23:11

we're gonna give you a probationary contract for

23:13

the summer. And then the summer became

23:15

six months and then that became a year and then that became

23:17

five years and it sort of

23:20

snowballed.

23:21

So what were those first, like, weeks

23:23

on the job? Like, I know

23:25

that you visited the MTV Beach

23:27

House? Sure did. You know,

23:29

the first thing that I did on air, was

23:32

filming the pilot for this show that would

23:34

be called I spy video. MTV

23:36

Live, still a thing it had not become total

23:38

request live yet. And so the boss's

23:40

boss's boss calls the place where

23:42

we're shooting the pilot and asked for

23:44

me and is like, hey, we need

23:46

a host for the live show today. Could you go do

23:48

it? And I was like, yeah, okay. And

23:50

they put me on air as the host of

23:52

this live show for ninety minutes

23:55

by myself. Ninety minutes.

23:57

Ninety minutes of live television by

24:00

myself. I was so

24:01

scared. I didn't know what to do with myself,

24:04

but I just sort of went with it. So

24:06

how did it feel after having been a fan of MTV

24:08

for your whole life? To all of a

24:10

sudden, be an MTV

24:13

VJ

24:13

with millions of people watching

24:16

you. On real.

24:18

It was, you know, the ticket to the chocolate

24:20

factory. It was it was everything. It truly

24:23

was so

24:25

much fun. Even when it

24:27

was hard even when the hours were long,

24:30

it was so much fun. I remember when I

24:32

finally did get a proper agent I

24:34

said yes to everything that they asked me

24:36

to do. And this agent was like, you know, you have to say

24:38

no sometimes. You gotta like earn their respect

24:40

in that way. You gotta like, you know, dig your heels in

24:43

certain things so they know they can't walk all over you.

24:45

And I was like, I want to

24:47

do

24:47

everything.

24:48

Yeah. I mean, like, I'm here. Why

24:50

would I say no to anything?

24:53

This is the best job in the

24:55

world. Truly? I understand,

24:58

like, what you're trying to say, but

25:00

also that's the dumbest thing

25:01

ever. Because I wanna do every I wanna catch

25:03

everything that Nick drove

25:04

me. We're gonna take a quick break

25:07

and then we will hear more about Dave's

25:09

exploits at MTV and what's

25:11

become of the VJ. That's coming

25:13

up next. Welcome

25:28

back to this job is history with me.

25:31

Linda, we're back with iconic MTV

25:33

Vijay Dave

25:34

Holmes. So Dave.

25:35

Yeah. You worked at MTV in the late nineties

25:37

and early odds. Take us back. Who

25:39

were the bands with hit videos at

25:42

that

25:42

time. And how would you describe the music

25:44

and style of the era? I

25:46

was there at a really interesting

25:48

time. When I got there, it was

25:51

sort of the tail end of

25:53

like post Nirvana alternative. But

25:55

right around this time, on the upswing

25:58

was boy bands and

26:00

girl groups and things that were

26:02

made in a lab in Sweden that was

26:04

like pop music It was glorious

26:06

and beautiful and made young people

26:08

scream their hearts out. And it gave MTV

26:11

like a shot in the arm. Right? With these

26:13

like young hunkin dream boats and like girls

26:15

that girls liked and stuff. Ratings

26:18

were through the roof and

26:20

suddenly the artists that I was interviewing

26:23

went from being, like, my age

26:25

to being, like, sixty. In

26:27

your memoir, you ranked back

26:29

street boys as long as you love me the single

26:32

most important video

26:34

of the era as someone who was

26:36

firmly on team BSB

26:39

in elementary school. Mhmm. I

26:41

appreciate this. Can

26:51

you tell us why you chose that

26:53

music video over like,

26:55

baby one more time or bye bye

26:57

bye as the most iconic

27:00

It's just so simple. It's

27:03

the boy band business model

27:05

in video, and it

27:07

looks like it costs thirteen dollars. It's the

27:09

five boys each one is dressed kind

27:11

of differently. Again, it's very Spice Girls.

27:13

They've each got their own little personality. There's

27:16

like the the Dewey blonde

27:18

one. There's this bad boy

27:19

one. A

27:20

bad boy. There's Kevin with

27:22

the body and the eyebrows, you

27:24

know, if you're a thirteen year old girl,

27:27

which in my heart I was at the time

27:29

and still am. It was like like there's

27:31

a tiny window of sex, but it's mostly

27:33

very wholesome and they keep changing

27:35

clothes and they have very simple dances that they do

27:37

around

27:38

chairs. Mhmm. It feels like a sales presentation

27:40

for boy bands. That music

27:43

video is stuck in my memory

27:45

even more so because the Blink

27:47

one eighty two, all the small things

27:49

parody video -- Yeah. -- which is

27:51

basically them doing a lot

27:53

of the same exact shots except they have

27:56

in false teeth and then they're

27:58

naked on the

27:58

beach. I found it very disrespectful.

28:01

Well, those boys were very disrespectful. Oh,

28:04

delinquents. Alright.

28:06

It's time. I want to talk about

28:09

TRL. I told you I went.

28:11

I stood out

28:12

there. We've

28:13

established --

28:13

Yes. -- and you saw me and you

28:15

remember it. Yeah. So MTD always

28:17

seems to have the pulse of pop

28:19

culture, and maybe no show represented

28:21

this more than TRL. Yeah. You were at

28:23

the center of that phenomenon. You even hosted

28:26

the show at in times, can you describe

28:28

how TRL came to be and

28:31

what it was like to be a part of that

28:33

show as it was gaining

28:34

steam? Yeah. Well, total request

28:36

live came out of the marriage

28:38

of two different shows. There was MTV Live, which was

28:40

the ninety minute live show from the studio in

28:42

New York. And then there was total request

28:45

they pronounce a total request. Request.

28:48

Which was like the daily top ten. And

28:50

then in the autumn of nineteen

28:52

ninety eight, it was determined that they would marry

28:54

those two shows and make a total request live.

28:56

It was the top ten videos of the day based

28:59

on viewers call in votes and there

29:01

was barely anybody out in time squared.

29:03

Started. But then as it did, suddenly

29:05

it was like people were starting to show up on the

29:07

sidewalk outside the studio. And then it's like,

29:10

actually, they're taking over the bus lane now

29:12

moving along Broadway. And then it just suddenly

29:14

became this phenomenon like kids

29:16

would, you know, skip school and go

29:18

and stand and yell at the window.

29:19

Yeah. If it's just in Timberlake, and

29:22

you're a thirteen year old from Long Island

29:24

who's in town for the day and you see

29:26

that, you lose your mind. The

29:28

video that I really spiced specifically

29:31

remember going home to see

29:33

was the lo jaw

29:35

rule I'm real video where she where's

29:37

the pink juicy

29:38

suit? Cheersy. Jersy. And

29:40

so I'm like yeah. Like, if I saw

29:43

JLo in the juicy suit in the window,

29:45

at that

29:46

time. Yeah. I would have totally freaked

29:48

out.

29:48

Yeah. You just lose it. I just remember it

29:50

had this feeling of, like, you had to get home to

29:52

watch the videos because that was the time to

29:54

see them. Yes. And then there was also this

29:57

element I remember feeling like I wanted to

29:59

support my favorite artist by going

30:01

to watch the

30:02

videos. Yeah. It was like early stamp

30:04

culture. You had to -- Yeah. -- choose who you liked

30:06

and vote for them and Or if you

30:08

were

30:08

there, you'd be like, I'm Linda

30:10

and I chose

30:11

that real big showroom. Because

30:13

I love to choose the sweatshirt. Yeah. Exactly.

30:16

There's a lot of that. So I'm wondering what

30:18

were your most memorable

30:21

wild TRL moments from the though.

30:23

Oh god. I okay.

30:25

I remember we did a whole episode

30:27

with Tom Cruise, and he's got so much

30:30

natural charisma. That

30:32

it's just you can't process it. He walks

30:34

in the room. And then Tom Cruise and I talk for an

30:36

hour that, like, goes in the snap of a finger,

30:38

and he laughs all my jokes with big Tom Cruise

30:40

laugh. And as it's ending,

30:42

I'm like, we're friends.

30:45

Like, I'm gonna hang out with like,

30:47

we'll probably have dinner tonight. It doesn't sound great.

30:49

Because we're really clicking. And

30:51

then it's like, and then the show ended and he was

30:53

just gone. Like, I'm sure he said goodbye, but

30:55

he was just gone. And we were just days. Like,

30:58

even the audience was, like, blinking. Like,

31:00

what just happened to us? He

31:02

changed us on a molecular level

31:04

while he was in that presence. So

31:06

earlier we talked about your favorite VJ

31:09

and how you broke into the business. Yeah.

31:11

Did you get to meet any of your MTV

31:14

Heroes while working

31:15

there? You know, I did get to meet Martha Quinn.

31:17

Yes. Sweet. Well, Martha Quinn

31:19

at the the twentieth anniversary

31:21

celebration. Every time I'm back in

31:23

New York, I have lunch with Duff.

31:25

Oh, that's early nineties, who's the coolest

31:27

human being on planet Earth. Tonight,

31:29

I am having dinner with Damian Feiyi and Gidi

31:32

Diego. Wow. So you guys are really

31:34

the VJ crew stays strong. Yeah.

31:36

I mean, it was college in a lot of ways.

31:38

And I really don't keep up with my college

31:40

friends. MTV, I very much keep up reference.

31:44

As we know, all good things must come

31:46

to an end. Sure. The five years you

31:48

spent at MTV ushered in TRL

31:50

and the next wave of iconic music videos,

31:52

but it also saw the rise of more and more

31:54

reality TV programming. So what became

31:57

of MTV and the Vijay after you

31:59

left?

31:59

Atero continued until two

32:02

thousand eight. And more

32:04

and more of the network started to play shows

32:06

like the Osbournes and then Jersey Shore.

32:09

And it got little bit away from music

32:11

videos, which by the way, always got

32:14

the worst ratings. Also at this time,

32:16

YouTube starts and streaming starts And

32:19

so if if there's video that you wanna see,

32:21

you just pull it up and you watch it right then

32:23

and you don't have to wait for some guy

32:25

like me to say here it is in give

32:27

it to you.

32:27

Yeah. You

32:28

just take it anytime. And so a

32:30

music video network became redundant.

32:32

And a VJ sort of became redundant.

32:34

Because now you can also just go on YouTube and be

32:36

like, hey guys, smash that subscribe button

32:39

and it's essentially the same thing.

32:40

Who do you think the equivalent of

32:42

the VJ Is today? Is

32:44

it the influencer? Is it the algorithm?

32:47

It's I think it's both. I, you know,

32:50

I think it is more the influence. Mhmm.

32:52

have a friend who has young daughter. She's

32:54

like, eleven now. But back when she was like

32:56

seven, when she would play in her room, we could

32:58

hear her go. Hey, guys.

33:01

And, like, pretend to do, like, little fashion

33:03

influencer videos. Mhmm. And

33:06

she didn't have a camera or a phone. Nothing actually

33:08

got put online. But that's where kids

33:10

imaginations take them now.

33:12

And it's exactly me

33:15

when was ten thinking like maybe

33:17

someday I'll be like an

33:18

VJ. It's literally the same Alright.

33:21

Dave, we like to wrap up every episode

33:23

with a series of questions we call our

33:25

Fast Five. There are five quick questions.

33:28

You answer him, quick off the top of your head.

33:30

Are you ready? Yes.

33:32

Great. Here we go. What is the biggest misconception

33:34

about being a VJ?

33:36

When I first went to the summer house, I thought

33:38

we would all it was a real house and we'd all live in

33:40

it. But I don't know if that's a popular

33:42

misconception or if I've just really

33:44

But it's one that affected you. It's one that

33:45

affected me and maybe only me.

33:47

What is your biggest failure as a

33:49

VJ? I should've I

33:51

should've been out. And I was out in

33:53

my personal life, but it wasn't really this is

33:55

a much more serious accident you're probably

33:57

looking

33:57

for. Okay. In two

33:58

seconds, explain why you

34:03

But yeah, I, you know, I I just never

34:05

said anything on Aaron. I, like, you know,

34:07

I wish that I

34:08

had. Well, that's putting the brain of

34:10

this me into that me's head, and that's

34:12

that's not happening.

34:13

Yeah. You can't talk to your twenty seven year

34:15

old self.

34:16

No. You can't be your twenty seven.

34:18

No.

34:18

Alright. What's the best compliment you ever received

34:21

about your time as a VJ. Oh,

34:23

okay. I've had people say that

34:25

that that I helped shape their

34:27

taste in music. Which is lovely,

34:30

but also that had nothing to do with me because there was

34:32

a whole music department that was like shaping

34:34

the

34:34

channel. Yeah. But you You

34:36

wore that every man in that link in

34:38

between. Yeah. Alright. What advice

34:41

would you give to someone wanting to

34:43

become a VJ in a reality

34:45

where they could come

34:46

AVJ0, wow. Everything

34:49

that you are interested in, read about

34:52

it, watch shows about

34:53

it, go see movies about it, because when you get the

34:55

job, which you will, it all ends up being

34:57

research. Last

35:00

If you could be remembered for just

35:03

one thing from your time,

35:05

Vijay, what would it be?

35:07

Oh, god. That's a really good question

35:09

of Democrats.

35:11

You know what? My shirts during

35:13

the summerhouse my shirts during

35:15

the summerhouse of nineteen ninety nine,

35:17

we went to Paradise Island. Sometimes it

35:19

was like Hawaiian print, sometimes it was like

35:21

a bowling shirt, sometimes it was a a

35:23

chandler bing kind of a

35:24

situation. I'd like to be remembered for

35:26

my shirts.

35:27

The shirts. Alright. Well, I encourage everyone

35:30

listening to go Google those. No.

35:32

My biggest failure was the frosted tips. See,

35:34

I went too serious. I went too serious with

35:36

that answer. I went to earnest with that

35:37

answer. My biggest failure by far, the

35:40

frosted tips. I had frosted tips for one.

35:41

Yeah. That's a mistake. A lot of people made.

35:44

I had some frosted tips.

35:47

Alright. I for one

35:49

say bring back the VJ, but

35:51

in the meantime, You can hear

35:53

Dave, wax poetic about all things

35:56

pop culture, whatever on

35:58

the homophobia podcast. And

36:00

for more on his VJ days, check out

36:02

his book, Parnell of One, a memoir

36:05

in twenty one

36:05

songs. Dave Holmes, thanks so much for joining

36:08

us. On this job is his three.

36:10

Thank you for having me. It's been a

36:12

pleasure. A perfect first interview.

36:14

Yay. Yay. Yay. Chatting

36:19

with Dave has me all nostalgic for

36:21

my MTV watching days. May

36:24

even have to bust out my old Avelovine

36:26

necktie, But what

36:28

is it about the music and culture

36:30

we discover as kids that make such

36:32

a lasting impression on us? Whether

36:35

it's Duran Duran for Dave, Avril

36:37

for me or Taylor Swift for

36:40

the new generation, it's that feeling

36:42

of discovery that never seems

36:44

to fade. The moment when you're led

36:46

into an exciting new world for

36:48

the first time. Back in the

36:50

day, it was MTV and the VJ

36:52

leading the charge. Today, it's

36:55

Instagram and YouTube. But as

36:57

Dave says, the legacy of the Vijay

36:59

lives on in every hip young

37:01

influencer and every retro

37:04

music fad. Hey, Frosted

37:06

tips are even making come

37:07

back. And while it's still maybe

37:10

winter, I'll always have my memories

37:12

of summer at the MTV Beach House

37:14

with my favorite VJ's to keep me

37:16

warm.

37:21

Hey, Prime members. You can listen to this

37:24

job as history early and ad free

37:26

on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon

37:28

music app today, or you can listen

37:30

ad free with Wondery plus and Apple podcasts.

37:33

Before you go, tell us about yourself by

37:35

completing a short survey at Wondery dot

37:37

com slash survey.

37:42

From Wondery, this is job is

37:44

history. And this is, so you wanna

37:46

be a VJ produced and written by

37:48

Peter Arkuni, sound designed

37:50

by Ryan Petesta, engineered by

37:52

Hector Fernandez, additional audio

37:55

assistance by Adrian Topia. Emma

37:57

Reynolds is our associate producer, Sofia

37:59

Martin's is our production coordinator. Our

38:01

main managing producer is Ryan Lohr.

38:03

Matthew Wise is our senior producer.

38:06

Our executive producers are Sothi Dorsey,

38:08

Stephanie Jen's and Marshall Louie for

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Wonder.