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there podcast listeners, I'm here with a quick announcement before the

0:39

show. And that is, if you have not

0:41

heard, Sarah Koenig is back

0:44

with a new season of cereal. And

0:47

it is about Guantanamo. And

0:49

I just want to say, even if

0:51

you think you know everything you want to know about

0:53

Guantanamo already, and even if you think

0:55

you have no interest at all in Guantanamo, you

0:58

want to listen to the first episode of this show

1:01

and check out what they found. What's

1:03

happened is that enough time has passed

1:05

that people are talking, guards,

1:07

prisoners, interrogators, commanders, detainees, and

1:10

what Sarah and her co-host Dana Chivas

1:13

are interested in is what was it like?

1:16

What was it like to be inside this experiment that

1:18

the United States wheeled into existence

1:20

this weird prison and court that

1:22

we made from scratch with its

1:24

own surreal rules popped in the

1:26

middle of the Caribbean where in their off hours,

1:29

the young military personnel were drinking and partying like

1:31

crazy. Serial, I'd

1:33

say kind of invented a whole way of

1:35

telling stories in podcast form, and you will hear

1:37

they still do it better than anybody. Serial

1:40

season four Guantanamo from

1:42

the New York Times and serial productions. Get

1:45

it wherever you get your podcasts. Okay,

1:49

here's today's episode. A

1:52

quick warning, there are curse words that are unbeeped

1:54

in today's episode of the show. If

1:56

you prefer a beeped version, you can find that

1:59

at our website. This American

2:01

life.org. They.

2:03

Didn't Gentlemen, let's be honest about something.

2:06

Most. Of us. We. See wrongdoing out in

2:08

the world? Somebody. Breaking the law

2:10

out the open flagrantly. Most.

2:13

Of us do nothing. But

2:16

how many movies was seen with the big lesson

2:18

is it. It only takes one plucky, courageous person

2:21

to make a stand. We've.

2:23

Got stuff to do. People. Are expecting

2:25

us. We don't go to tribal. Even.

2:28

If we will be so easy. That. The crime

2:30

that we're witnessing his minor and nonviolent.

2:33

And sort of outrageous Sir is

2:35

a good one to get off

2:38

the bike for. This was my

2:40

please me first kunsman. Sinus

2:42

if these graybeard. Quick with a

2:44

friendly smile. Riding. Bikes are

2:46

normal. Looking for illegal

2:48

license plates? what mostly half as is

2:51

Abby biking along and when you look

2:53

that literally thousands of plates you can

2:55

see right out of the Korea I

2:58

have Something's wrong. Often

3:00

even just a fake plate will have

3:02

a different glint in the sun. In

3:04

this case case, I could see it's

3:06

a covered played every plate. meaning it's

3:08

and will same with some sort of

3:10

plastic over the place. Now, plate covers

3:13

are illegal in New York. This one's

3:15

especially egregious because I know if you

3:17

notice. And a Scots paint

3:19

the word picture for your radio listeners.

3:21

it's as it's a shaded one. Said.

3:23

It was some special stuff so from of in the

3:25

car directly behind this card like it was normal that.

3:28

You. Can't rebuild down on the plate.

3:30

From above it all away. Travel

3:32

camera. Still, it's black, unreadable, So

3:35

this traffic cameras to catch you. He's been

3:38

around a light. They do not deliver this

3:40

person to justice. And the ticket. Or

3:43

told. The read plate

3:45

and tried to sixteen bucks and across

3:47

bridge or tunnel and to New York

3:49

that is Martin this car doesn't rise

3:51

to for free every time that spheres

3:54

lose an estimated one hundred ninety four

3:56

million dollars a year when asked finds.

3:58

Post has been. plates. And

4:01

most of the people Gersh Katch is doing this, debating

4:04

the law this way, are cops. And

4:07

once you start seeing it, you can't stop seeing it.

4:10

The majority have been people in

4:12

law enforcement, court officers,

4:14

firefighters, cops, DAs, federal

4:16

officials. And you know that they're police officers

4:19

because you see stuff on their dashboards, stuff

4:21

like this. Yeah, placards. A lot of placards.

4:24

Hot spots are near precincts, near

4:27

firehouses, and definitely near courthouses. We're

4:29

actually next to a courthouse in a detention center,

4:31

on a short block at Baxter and Bayard. And

4:34

this car that Gersh has spotted, a gray Audi, is

4:37

one of four that we see with obscured plates. You're

4:40

looking in the front dashboard, what's

4:42

it say there? Well, so this is

4:44

actually the Manhattan Detention Complex authorized parking.

4:47

This is a Department of Corrections employee

4:49

placard. But if you notice, the plate

4:51

was from Jersey. If the owner of

4:53

the gray Audi is an employee of the New

4:55

York City Department of Corrections, they're supposed to live

4:57

in New York. It's forbidden for them to live

4:59

in Jersey. And so they seem

5:01

to be evading traffic cameras. Maybe they're living

5:03

illegally out of state. And they've also got

5:06

darkly tinted windows, which are illegal in New

5:08

York, which means this

5:10

is exactly the kind of scoff law that Gersh

5:13

has appointed himself to take action against. That's

5:16

what Gersh is different from you and me. It

5:18

just, it just, what it is, it

5:20

just, it just rankles me. It's just

5:22

like, it's hiding in plain sight. Loose

5:25

again at the placard under the car's windshield. I mean,

5:27

this guy's a real dick. I

5:29

can't see, he's covered up when the

5:31

placard expires. My guess

5:33

is this is an expired placard anyway.

5:36

And he may not even work for the city of New

5:38

York anymore, but he's decided he wants to park for free in

5:41

an illegal parking zone. Now,

5:44

what I will often do in these situations is I'll

5:46

remove the plate cover and

5:49

stick it on the dash. I don't steal anything,

5:51

but I do want the guy to know he's

5:53

breaking the law. And a guy who works for

5:55

corrections certainly should know what happens to people who

5:57

break the law. So. The

6:00

have a look at it to see like can even get it off

6:02

the i could get. I know he's got

6:04

a special screw on this one before screws

6:06

on a plate did now image complement the

6:08

of my Allen Wrench or will sit this

6:10

one if it will take it off and

6:13

will have some fun. because you're playing an

6:15

elementary A while it may have an Elementary.

6:17

While you don't have an Allen Wrench nuance,

6:19

I don't have the right size Allen Wrench.

6:21

Let me check my bag. travel with a

6:24

set of tools. He likes to treat them

6:26

as another. I told you never know what

6:28

Louise license cover on car. You're. Going

6:30

with the traffickers. Not be

6:32

able to fix the situation. Most

6:34

times when he finds his drivers have painted over

6:36

a letter or number and played. Are

6:39

bent the plate so it's unreadable. With of

6:41

grant leaves in the license plate Honer directly

6:43

seek ways with magnets. You can buy a

6:45

line for this purpose and. Dash

6:48

removes the leaves and bends plates

6:51

replaced was written numbers of the

6:53

paper money and the plates perfectly

6:55

legible. Again, institute a video first.

6:58

Always shoot a gleeful little video

7:00

post on mine i use Eastern

7:02

difference was that assume sophie style

7:04

and it's record. Player: But

7:07

it's First cousins Good Friday and I want to say it's

7:09

a great Friday look at this. I got

7:11

a corrections officer. With. New

7:14

Jersey car. It's pretty fancy car

7:16

with illegal tinted windows. And

7:19

look at this on the back of the

7:21

car. Is that this weird shadowy Connor? Slate.

7:23

Cover which those as with yours play govern

7:25

job and I thought I'd the played for

7:27

the cameras. Still couldn't bear to into city

7:29

these videos in disguise. First his friends tried

7:32

to convince him to stop. scared some drivers

7:34

going to freak out on and really hurt

7:36

him so disease agreed not to do this

7:38

alone. The sentences against.

7:42

The Lakers got into this. Is Journalists.

7:44

You're right about these sorts of issues and into

7:46

traffic and transit. New site called Streets. Is

7:49

a wind Speed Enforcement cameras went on twenty

7:51

four seven in your back in August twenty

7:54

twenty two and last people but then started

7:56

to see some your plates to avoid the

7:58

cameras. Didn't get involved in the. How

8:00

to a friend of his? Then

8:03

an Adam White personal injury lawyer.

8:05

The Safe Streets activists sides take

8:07

accent. Adam. Soon

8:09

as you the display was obscured by a

8:12

piece of plastic. So. He moved a

8:14

piece of plastic. Unfortunate for him, he didn't look

8:16

in the in the car. the guy was sitting

8:18

right there. The guy was also a cop to

8:20

be of says that I was not a real

8:22

N Y P D top. He. Was in

8:24

a local neighborhood patrol so he called

8:26

the cops and the cops arrested Adam

8:28

A charged with criminal mischief. Now.

8:30

That's the most a stark apart because criminal

8:32

mischief is generally like a graffiti charged Like

8:35

if you want if you damaged someone's property,

8:37

you get charged with criminal mischief. In.

8:39

This case it's a weird charge

8:41

because he didn't actually damage anything

8:43

he actually on damaged. Or.

8:45

Repair the damage the other guy did i covering

8:48

his plate so when it was arrested but it

8:50

was dismissed but at the same time once he

8:52

got arrested. By. A cop

8:54

for under facing a cops played it

8:56

kind of through the whole irony ball

8:59

in the air. I felt like I

9:01

should just juggle it. The

9:07

first finity irony bar fuckers was kind

9:09

of Dylan asked protest songs they represent

9:11

out on. Your

9:18

list or. Whatever.

9:27

Then maybe two days after Adam was

9:29

arrested garage started on vandalizing played some

9:31

some something clicked the me thanks women

9:34

I should try to get arrested Your

9:36

eyes a newspaper reporter as a journalist.

9:38

Which. Would be awesome getting arrested. or even better

9:40

yet, like getting punched out by somebody on camera

9:43

like this is the height of my career. A

9:45

modern win a pulitzer, but get punched out by

9:47

copper? be awesome. Southern. Apa

9:49

no I'm not even close outward background so

9:51

there's has seen some other responses by law

9:53

enforcement. Does videos. reshoots wanting

9:55

us to send it to the agency that

9:57

employs that particular coroner so i like videos

9:59

about off all cops, go to the NYPD,

10:01

firefighters, the fire department, and so on. And

10:04

that's gotten occasional results. A former

10:06

cop who was working with the DA's office

10:08

resigned, and a guy that Gersh

10:11

caught five times hiding his license plate with leaves

10:13

resigned from the Department of Citywide Administrative

10:16

Services. Now, in fairness,

10:18

I will say I think the NYPD

10:20

did something, because about six

10:22

months ago, I

10:25

started noticing far fewer police

10:27

officers were defacing or covering their

10:29

plate. There have been less

10:31

police officers involved in these kind of shenanigans.

10:33

I still notice court officers, federal officials, and

10:35

firefighters. So and then I asked the NYPD

10:37

about that, and they won't even take credit

10:39

for when they do something right. Like, they're

10:41

a very opaque agency, which is very frustrating.

10:43

There are a handful of other people in

10:45

New York who do this kind of license

10:47

plate street justice. But Gersh is

10:49

the most visible by far, because of his videos.

10:52

He's gotten the word out. At this point,

10:54

Gersh's exploits have been written up in The New Yorker,

10:56

in The New York Times. He's been

10:59

on TV. So it's weird in some ways, like

11:01

I've been a reporter for 30 something years in

11:03

this city. And this is

11:05

ultimately the most successful thing I've

11:08

done in terms of bringing light to

11:10

something that is actually a real problem. Like

11:12

traffic enforcement agents are now writing more

11:14

tickets for it. That

11:21

said, the wrong that Gersh is

11:23

trying to correct is so small in the grand scheme

11:25

of things. Why is he the

11:28

person who ended up leading the crusade for unobstructed

11:30

license plates? You know what I mean? He's not

11:32

this way with other petty crimes. He

11:34

sees somebody jumping a turnstile. He doesn't

11:36

care. But this got under his

11:38

skin. The license plate

11:40

seems like such basic accountability to him.

11:43

But also? A bit of a showman. I'm

11:46

a bit of a showman. I'll admit that. Yes, I

11:48

am a ham. I am a

11:50

performer. But

11:52

why can't a journalist have a little fun? That's

11:56

actually one of my favorite things about Gersh's videos. He

11:58

looks like he's having so much fun. fun. You know

12:01

New York life it doesn't have

12:03

a lot of joy in it. It really doesn't like it's

12:05

really kind of drudgery most of the time. It's a great

12:07

city whatever but it's drudgery and those 20 seconds

12:10

a day when I can do one of

12:12

those videos it's just I get joyful. You

12:14

see me on camera and I'm smiling

12:16

and I don't know what it is it's just like my

12:19

inner soul is just singing. Later

12:30

in my program minor crimes and

12:32

the people who appoint themselves to stop those minor

12:35

crimes. I once read this

12:37

great crime writer who said that what's interesting about

12:39

a murder case is that a murder

12:41

reveals so much about all the people near the

12:43

crime. We see who they

12:45

really are. Today on our show we demonstrate

12:48

that this is not just true for a

12:50

cold-blooded crime in the first degree it's true

12:52

for the tiniest human infractions like

12:55

kids stealing candy or a

12:57

man who twice violates the lowest level municipal

12:59

offense that you can think of. We

13:01

see so much about who they

13:03

are. WBEZ Chicago, Sis American Life,

13:05

I'm Eric Glass. I'm

13:22

Michael Herriot versus Herriot. Okay

13:25

so let's get things off today with an

13:27

entire system of justice set up to adjudicate

13:29

the most minor sorts of crimes and misdemeanors.

13:32

When Michael Herriot was a kid growing up in

13:34

South Carolina in the 80s his mom

13:36

set this up a kind of courtroom in the

13:38

house to try to teach your kids all kinds

13:40

of life lessons. They called it Herriot

13:42

court and when one of the

13:45

kids did something wrong the case would be heard

13:47

a judgment would be handed down this round for

13:49

many many years with all kinds of cases and

13:51

Michael says that he and his siblings all credit

13:53

Herriot court with making them the people they

13:55

are today. Though when

13:58

he went to talk to them about it, Recently, he

14:01

started to rethink that. Harriet

14:03

Court existed for a reason. We

14:06

were bad. There were

14:08

four of us, me and three sisters.

14:11

Shawn was the oldest. So

14:13

growing up, I would describe myself

14:17

as, um, I

14:20

was a snitch. I was gonna say it, the

14:22

tater tail. I

14:25

would say back then I was the bossy's,

14:28

because I was the one that was always in charge. And I could thank

14:31

everybody. I was the

14:33

middle child, the nerd and

14:35

the know-it-all, the sneakiest of

14:37

the bunch. Then

14:40

there were the two youngest girls,

14:42

Kamalita and Robin. Kamalita

14:45

and Robin were like, they

14:47

was just what you call the wild child. It

14:50

was just whatever with them. If it

14:52

could be done, they did it. They're gonna try it. They

14:55

were born months apart, and Robin

14:57

passed away some years ago. But

15:00

no one ever really thought of Kamalita and

15:02

Robin as individuals. They were

15:04

one interconnected unit, like Tom

15:07

and Jerry, Bonnie and

15:09

Clyde, or Earth, Wind, and

15:11

Fire. Here's Kamalita. They

15:14

used to call us the devil and Daniel

15:16

Webster, because whatever I came up with, she

15:18

would follow me. Or whatever she came up

15:20

with, I'm going with you, girl. We doing

15:22

it together. We went to school together.

15:24

We wore the same clothes. We

15:26

graduated the same year, so she

15:29

had my back. And

15:36

then there was my mom. My mom

15:38

was not one of those, because I said so, kind

15:40

of moms. She

15:43

wanted us to know that we would

15:45

be heard, and that logic and reason

15:47

should govern the world and our household.

15:50

So she created Harriet Court as a

15:52

solution to our shenanigans. My

15:56

mom was two people at once. She

15:58

was part of a fundamentalist holy in this religion,

16:01

and she was this pro-black,

16:03

Black Pantherish activist who was

16:05

almost obsessively adamant about our

16:07

education. She didn't

16:09

really trust white people with her kids, so

16:12

for a while, we were homeschooled. As

16:14

a result, so much of what we learned came

16:17

from TV, including Harriet

16:19

Court proceedings. We

16:21

hired each other as attorneys and

16:23

used phrases like, ladies and gentlemen

16:25

of the jewelry, and I

16:28

beseeched thee. We beseeched

16:30

each other a lot. One

16:34

of the earliest cases was Kamalita

16:37

and Robin versus all this candy.

16:40

As a rule, we were not allowed to

16:42

have candy growing up, except for once a

16:44

week, usually on Fridays. That

16:47

was tough for my sister Kamalita, who

16:49

was obsessed with candy. We used

16:51

to get the hubba bubba, because it used to

16:54

be strawberry or banana, and it was

16:56

five pieces. So we got a pack

16:58

of life savers and either chicklets or

17:00

hubba bubba bubba gum. I

17:03

don't love candy like y'all love candy. Me

17:05

and Robin loved candy. We love candy. So

17:08

take us to the candy case. Well, me

17:10

and Robin stole the candy from the corner

17:13

store. So me and Shawn

17:15

thought y'all found some money and bought that candy.

17:17

No, we stole the candy. We stole

17:19

the candy, but we kept stealing it, and stealing it

17:21

was so much candy. It was like Halloween candy.

17:24

I'm talking about bags you would get and take from

17:26

your kids at Halloween. That's how much candy it was.

17:29

But there was no place for anybody

17:31

to hide it. So we hid it

17:33

under the mattress. And me and Robin kept saying,

17:35

just put it in the mattress. They ain't gonna find it.

17:37

Just put it in the mattress. So we put it in

17:39

the mattress. And then one day, mama said, well, we're going

17:41

to clean for under the mattress. And she flipped the mattress,

17:44

and the candy was under the mattress. So we had to go

17:46

to court and tell where we got the candy from, why

17:49

we had so much, because it was a lot like

17:51

two wiggly bags full. Robin

17:53

and Kamalita put me on retainer as their

17:56

defense attorney in exchange for them doing one

17:58

of my household chores. We

18:00

gathered in the den, which we called

18:03

the middle room, where Chief

18:05

Justice Dorothy Harriet presided. She

18:08

would sit in the canary yellow lazy

18:10

boy and we'd plead our case from

18:12

the couch slash witness box. We

18:15

swore each other in on a copy of our favorite

18:17

book, Encyclopedia Brown Was

18:19

Mine, and I came

18:21

up with a defense that I still

18:23

argue should have worked, because remember, we

18:26

weren't allowed to eat candy. My

18:28

defense was that she didn't catch y'all eating candy,

18:30

she can't prove that y'all ate the candy, y'all

18:32

just had the candy. How she know y'all wasn't

18:34

trying to sell candy. No, no, no, we were

18:36

eating that candy. I knew y'all were eating it.

18:38

But that was my defense. I

18:41

don't remember exactly, but mom

18:43

would have cross-examined Carmelita and Robin. She

18:46

probably asked them if they understood why we

18:48

couldn't have candy. It was

18:50

because I had ADHD, which my

18:53

mom believed got worse with sugar. After

18:56

we'd made our arguments, our mom

18:58

dismissed Harriet Court by saying, okay,

19:01

make good choices. Then

19:04

she deliberate before issuing a written

19:06

opinion. Yes, a written opinion, which

19:09

would be taped to our doors.

19:12

Describe how you used to feel like in

19:14

your body when you was waiting

19:17

for her to decide. Like

19:20

the world's gonna come to an end, like it was

19:22

anything. Might be the next day, it

19:24

might be the same night. You didn't know what was

19:26

gonna happen. And you would just

19:28

take the paper and it'd be folded up and you'd

19:30

have to read your decision. But you know what? She

19:33

never said, well, let

19:35

me consult with somebody else. It was all...

19:38

You're right. Like

19:40

she didn't never consult with anybody else. She didn't consult with anybody

19:42

else. No appeals. That was what she said.

19:45

Was it? It

19:47

was it.

19:51

Since the sense

19:53

we're usually something like a week of

19:55

extra chores or two weeks

19:57

in solitary bedroom confinement, which happened.

19:59

and so frequently, it

20:01

eventually became known as being on

20:04

punishment. And

20:06

because we didn't go to school and

20:08

only had each other to play with, those

20:11

in-room incarceration periods seemed

20:13

unbearably long. And

20:16

that was the point. The punishment

20:18

gave you time to learn from your mistakes.

20:21

In the candy case, Mom came

20:23

down hard on comedy then, Robin. They

20:26

were on punishment for a long time, and

20:29

they both never stole candy again. For

20:37

years, I've remembered the candy case as an

20:39

example of the court working the best. But

20:42

when I talked to Kamalita about it recently, she

20:45

made me look at things a little differently. We

20:47

were on punishment a long time, but it

20:50

didn't matter with me and Robin, because we used

20:52

to always do what we wasn't supposed to do

20:54

anyway. Mama was at work, so me

20:56

and Robin would do whatever we wanted to do up

20:58

until we knew it was time for her to come

21:00

home. So it really didn't matter. Kamalita

21:03

didn't stop misbehaving. I

21:06

can just see her sitting in her room,

21:08

thinking over the lessons she learned from the candy

21:10

case. Find a

21:12

better hiding spot. So

21:15

maybe it wasn't the perfect criminal justice system.

21:21

And the more I think about it, there seem to

21:23

be a lot of cases like this, ones

21:26

that showed in retrospect that

21:28

our beloved Harriet Court was kind

21:31

of flawed, like the case

21:33

of Shawn versus the big lie, which

21:35

started when my mom eventually allowed us

21:38

to attend public school. I

21:40

think I might have been in fifth or sixth

21:42

grade, and I

21:44

went to school, and I

21:46

told him I was dying. Oh, I forgot

21:48

about this. Go

21:50

ahead. I

21:53

told him I was dying. I had

21:55

this undetermined disease

21:57

that nobody knew about. The

22:00

whole grade was like, oh my goodness, she's dying. They don't

22:02

know how much time she's going to have. So they would

22:04

come in, sign my desk, and

22:06

like do all that stuff. And so even

22:08

the teachers, they was like feeling bad. The principals thought

22:10

they were feeling bad. Sean's

22:12

classmates raised money for her unnamed terminal

22:15

illness and even signed a huge poster

22:17

that was supposed to go in her

22:19

casket. She kept this like

22:21

going for months until my mom

22:24

found out about it. I think it

22:26

was like parent-teacher conference or something. And

22:28

so my mom went and the

22:30

teacher was just expressing how

22:33

she was feeling bad and asking about

22:36

everything that was going on. She even

22:38

showed her how I had

22:40

the people signing on my desk and everything. And

22:43

oh boy, when she got home, she

22:46

was like, when you're supposed to be dying? And

22:48

then I just kind of, you know how you

22:50

lose your breath? I'm like, huh?

22:53

And she was like, so you're going

22:55

to be sick for real. You're

22:58

really going to be sick for real. Lying

23:02

was a big deal in our house. We

23:04

weren't even allowed to say the word lie. Sean

23:08

called for a Harriet Court trial, but

23:10

really it was just a delay tactic.

23:13

She knew she didn't have a case. She

23:15

was just trying to buy time, hoping my

23:17

mom would cool off. It

23:20

didn't work. The case went

23:22

to trial and my mom put her on

23:24

punishment for weeks. Sean

23:26

never told another lie like that again, unless

23:29

you count that time she lied about going to spring

23:31

break in 94. But

23:35

the thing I realized when I talked to her was

23:38

she wasn't just acting out for no reason. This

23:41

new school was a totally different

23:43

environment. At home, she

23:46

was a tough older sister, but

23:48

at school, she was crying

23:50

every day. We was a

23:53

culture shock for us. Totally different school,

23:55

totally different neighborhood. I

23:57

mean, predominantly white people, literally.

24:00

I didn't have a lot of friends. I only had like

24:03

maybe three or four friends like I

24:06

really did. And I think that was probably

24:09

the reason why I actually started doing it. And then

24:11

I was like, hmm, this gave me some

24:13

attention. So I'm just going to keep going. Looking

24:16

back, I can't say that Harriet

24:19

Court worked in this instance. Shawn

24:22

was lonely and she needed attention. So

24:24

she acted out by telling a lie. My

24:28

mom punished her for the lie, but it didn't

24:30

help her make friends. Like

24:32

the real world criminal justice system, Harriet

24:35

Court didn't address the root cause of the problem

24:37

it was trying to fix. Over

24:48

the years, as we learned about the

24:50

real world, Harriet Court became

24:52

more complex. The

24:54

ass case addressed the no profanity rule.

24:58

We used the court to establish precedent,

25:00

like I was doing it first, which

25:03

stated that you weren't breaking the no hitting

25:05

rule as long as you were moving your

25:07

arm and yelling I was doing this first.

25:10

After all, it wasn't your fault if someone

25:12

got clocked upside the head. You

25:15

were doing it first. We

25:17

even used it to overturn previous verdicts,

25:19

like the one that enforced our religion's

25:22

ban against women wearing pants. In

25:25

Harriet Court, we successfully convinced my

25:27

mom to overturn the no pants

25:29

rule so Shawn could play

25:31

softball. And as

25:33

with any justice system, over time,

25:35

my sisters and I found loopholes that

25:37

we could use to subvert our

25:39

mom's strict rules. We

25:42

became a team of semi-cricut lawyers, the

25:45

esteemed firm of Harriet, Harriet,

25:47

Harriet, and another Harriet. Sometimes

25:51

we faced each other in court, which

25:53

brings us to the last case, which is

25:56

about me. Michael

25:58

vs. Syrup. As

26:01

the oldest, one of Shawn's many

26:03

responsibilities was operating the washing machine.

26:06

She was the only sibling allowed to do it. So

26:09

I was the person that had to like wash the clothes.

26:13

I would wash the clothes and the other girls would like either put

26:15

them in the dryer or hang them out or whatever it needs to

26:17

be done to them. He

26:19

didn't do anything except empty the trash.

26:22

When he was self- I

26:24

had to do the yards. I had to

26:27

lift all the stuff in the house. Like

26:30

I was that though. How often was that? That

26:32

was not that often. That was not that often.

26:39

Shawn always felt like I wasn't doing enough.

26:41

And as the person whose sisters nicknamed him

26:44

the absent-minded professor, I was

26:47

the only sibling who regularly forgot to give

26:49

her my clothes. One

26:51

day, she finally reached a tipping

26:53

point and accepted her revenge. I

26:56

literally was like, I'm not washing your clothes anymore.

26:58

I'm like, I'm not doing it anymore. And

27:01

I washed everybody's clothes except here that week. But

27:05

the next day was picture day. I think you

27:07

left that important detail out. It was picture day.

27:10

I was furious. Shawn's petty

27:12

vengeance meant I wouldn't have my favorite

27:15

shirt on one of the

27:17

most important events on the elementary school

27:19

calendar. Picture day. And

27:22

if you wonder why I couldn't just convince her to

27:24

do another load, that wasn't even

27:26

an option. Two loads in

27:29

one week in the Harriet House?

27:32

Does my mom look like daddy warbucks to you? So

27:36

because of my mom's one load per week

27:38

rule, I had no choice but

27:40

to find a loophole that could get me

27:42

what I wanted. So

27:45

we would like get our clothes out at night. For

27:47

some reason that particular night, I didn't get my clothes out. And

27:49

then when I went to really go get my clothes out,

27:52

and it was like, all

27:54

over my clothes like in the drawer. I

27:58

had snuck into her room with a bottle of of

28:00

cane patch syrup and poured it all

28:02

over her clothes. Of

28:04

course she was upset, but this was

28:06

all part of my plan. Now

28:09

that we were both without clothes for picture day, there

28:11

was only one place we could settle our

28:14

differences. Harriet Court.

28:18

I argued that the solution was for

28:21

my mom to grant a one-time special

28:23

exemption from the one-load rule. I

28:26

won't. She was like, well, since

28:28

you gotta watch those anyway, you might as well wash his

28:31

clothes. Since you gotta wash them anyway. So

28:33

I was like, I literally had to wash all

28:35

my clothes over plus

28:37

his clothes. And he was the

28:39

one to put the syrup on my clothes. Sean

28:42

had to pay for a crime that I committed while

28:45

I escaped without punishment. In

28:48

the moment when I won, I felt

28:50

great. I ran around the

28:52

middle room gloating about my superior legal

28:55

skills. But when I went

28:57

to my bedroom afterwards, which was next to

28:59

the laundry room, I could

29:01

hear her sobbing to herself as she tossed

29:03

those clothes in the washing machine. I

29:07

felt terrible. I

29:09

hurt my sister just to get my way. And

29:11

I'd done it in the worst way possible by

29:15

weaponizing an institution that was

29:17

created to give us justice. I

29:20

was just another lawyer gaming the system. Perry

29:23

Mason would never. 30

29:30

years later, my sisters and I have

29:32

never really talked to our mom about Harriet Court.

29:35

She was the person who wrote the rules and

29:37

made the decisions. But I've never

29:40

asked her if her system broke that

29:42

she intended or why she started it

29:44

in the first place. Turns

29:46

out she didn't just create it to keep

29:49

us in check. My secret

29:52

ambition was to go to law school, even

29:54

now today my favorite TV

29:56

show is Judge Judy. I

29:59

watch Judge Judy. Judy I watch Trish.

30:03

Ladies and gentlemen of the jewelry my

30:05

mom the Honorable Dorothy

30:08

Harriet. Well we used to

30:10

watch People's Court y'all had

30:12

to watch People's Court because I watched it

30:14

all the time and

30:16

I can't remember that judge name. Judge

30:19

Wautner. Judge Wautner. Judge

30:21

Wautner. But those are

30:23

my favorite shows even today. I

30:26

should have gone to law school. I

30:28

didn't because I didn't think I could pass the LSAT.

30:31

I probably could have but I was

30:33

just afraid to take it. My

30:35

mother says honestly for her

30:38

Harriet Court was partly for her own

30:40

enjoyment. She loved arguing with me

30:43

although she told me I

30:45

wasn't the young legal ego I remembered which

30:48

stung. In my head

30:50

I thought I was one of the

30:52

most persuasive attorneys. Had you already made

30:55

up your mind when you

30:57

rendered your decisions? Most of the time

30:59

yes because I had already thought

31:01

about it whatever we were judging and

31:04

whatever we were going to court for. So I

31:07

already said sway you at all? No

31:10

because I had already made up my

31:12

mind that y'all had no coot and

31:14

no do right in y'all none of

31:16

y'all. So I'm the

31:18

common leader. Why

31:20

even? Why have to court? Yes because

31:24

I wanted to be fair. I wanted y'all to think

31:26

I was being fair. Were

31:29

you being fair? I

31:32

think I was pretty fair. Did

31:39

you think it made us better behaved, worse behaved

31:41

or no change? I don't think

31:44

it really made a difference with y'all. Y'all were just

31:46

bad. Nobody

31:48

could come up with the things that y'all did. Y'all

31:50

were just some bad children. To

31:52

be honest today y'all still them children.

31:55

Y'all the James Avenue bad

31:58

children. Come

32:02

to think of it, my sisters and

32:04

I never really changed that much. Kamalita

32:07

is still the most rebellious. Sean

32:09

is still the snitch who will tell mom,

32:11

you know that's whiskey in Mikey's cup. And

32:15

me, I'm still the same. Let

32:17

me explain why I'm correct, know it

32:20

all, who my mom once called a

32:23

right supremacist. But

32:26

the court did one thing. It

32:28

turned me and my sisters into a team.

32:31

It was us versus the judge. Us

32:34

trying to outthink mom. I

32:37

created that atmosphere on purpose.

32:41

You know, I wanted you guys to know how

32:43

to stand your own ground and

32:46

to be honest about who you were and what you

32:48

were doing. And I

32:50

think I made that point. We court and made

32:52

that point. It

32:54

taught you guys loyalty to

32:57

each other. And it's right

32:59

that y'all didn't snitch on each other. Y'all still

33:01

don't snitch on each other. That's

33:04

who she was. She did. She

33:08

told everything.

33:11

Talking to her, I realized

33:13

that Harriet Court was not some

33:16

genius institution that fit perfectly into

33:18

my mom's master plan. Like

33:21

most parents, she was just making

33:23

it up as she went along. But

33:26

to us, my mom tried this

33:28

amazingly ambitious thing. Because

33:31

of it, we still have this

33:34

almost unreasonable faith in logic

33:36

and justice. And

33:39

whenever we talk, our conversations end

33:41

the exact same way my mom

33:43

ended each session of Harriet Court.

33:47

Okay, make good choices.

34:00

In this book is Black AF History, the

34:02

Unwight-Watched Story of America. History

34:05

was produced by Emmanuel Jochee. Coming

34:10

up, a thief steals something very rare

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in a minute. Mr. Gaga Bible radio,

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35:31

Hi, I'm Wendy Doar. I'm an

35:33

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need a new subscription. Action

36:00

To listen. To.

36:05

Smack Nightmare a glass to these programs.

36:07

Minor Crimes Division stories of tiny x

36:09

around doing with the say about the

36:11

people who commit them. And. About

36:13

the people who have devoted themselves to catching and

36:15

punishing these acts we were. I do that to

36:17

our program at To. Alternate side.

36:21

Are you know sometimes is a disagreement? Of

36:23

whether tiny act of wrongdoing is in fact

36:25

that an actor wrongdoing at all. When

36:27

were producers of either to point out. As

36:30

it's down. Today. The

36:32

had he had just moved to San Francisco. He

36:34

hadn't even really move there that he just driven

36:37

them with a car full of staff. Cast

36:39

at a friend's house. loyalist for an apartment. He.

36:42

Didn't have a permit to park in the spend. Same for

36:44

head. Which. Many had to move

36:46

his car every two hours. So.

36:49

I was gotta go every day or two hours

36:51

and move the car. He. Does this

36:53

all day, every day. It's extremely

36:55

annoying, but he's diligent about it.

36:58

And then one day he comes out to

37:00

find a parking ticket tucked under his windshield

37:03

wiper. And members I: What the

37:05

fuck I just I moved. It's it's

37:07

been less than two hours. This is

37:09

wrong. I didn't do anything wrong. Afraid

37:11

I follow the rules. Is

37:13

an expensive ticket or on three hundred

37:15

dollars? He decides to contest it.

37:18

So. I go to the courts

37:20

and. Are going to the judge what

37:22

happened. And she says

37:24

how far did you move it

37:26

I said i don't know. If

37:29

you like. Thirty seats

37:31

just guessing I'm widow with it if

37:33

you look like and I said why

37:36

how far supposed to move it she

37:38

says. I don't

37:40

know. American up. To

37:43

six of his big law books. She

37:45

said go through it and she finds

37:47

a thing is of here it is

37:49

It says here you have to move

37:51

it Oh thirty five feet So I'm

37:54

afraid I have to give you a

37:56

ticket. Interviews. I

37:58

said wait a minute. First of all, It

38:00

might have been thirty five in I've been

38:02

forty feet. I don't know, I didn't measure

38:04

it's second of all you didn't even know

38:06

what the amount was. And if you don't

38:08

know the my was why should I have

38:10

to pay ticket for them and you don't

38:13

even know with allies about no one knows

38:15

they didn't say anything about it it in

38:17

this a stupid book and ridiculous so I'm

38:19

sorry for ignorance of the law is no

38:21

excuse. Having was

38:23

upset, he turned to leads. And

38:26

I just couldn't accept see like that

38:28

without saying anything I wanted to feel

38:30

and is bad about it for at

38:32

least you know if wanted to put

38:34

some doubt in her mind that she

38:36

may have been wrong. This

38:38

is the kind of person. Cop as. Honey.

38:41

See something in the world that seems

38:43

wrong or ill conceived are unfair. It's

38:45

very hard for him not to pointed

38:47

out this is either. Strains are personality,

38:49

the fact. He sees it as

38:52

both. Today. Majored in

38:54

Philosophy. still reads it sometimes. Which.

38:57

Is why on his way out of the court room.

38:59

He. Stopped turned back to the dad's.

39:02

And and know how this ends? Said.

39:04

This. You. Know

39:06

the distinction between legalism and essential

39:08

Islam and Chinese philosophy. No

39:11

surprise to dad said no she didn't.

39:14

And I said, well, the legalise believe

39:16

in applying the letter of the law.

39:19

And. You senseless believe in the spirit of the

39:21

law. And. Enters

39:24

the spirit of the law. I didn't do

39:26

anything wrong. I fall of spirit of a

39:28

lot. The spirit of a lot. Skate a

39:30

move your car so people can use that

39:33

spots are you don't just like pockets. I

39:35

did that. The letter of the law says

39:37

thirty five. It's

39:39

random, an arbitrary could be thirty four feet

39:41

of really succeed or Forty Suit website doesn't

39:43

really matter is just like. This

39:46

literalist nonsense. And

39:49

the senseless our rights are illegal

39:51

is so wrong and you are

39:53

aligning with the legalist. She's.

39:57

On the like world does. Very interesting. Thank

39:59

you for enlightening! me. Do

40:01

you think that would work? I

40:04

always think that people can be persuaded of

40:06

something that makes sense. But

40:09

if I'm a judge and some guy starts

40:11

talking to me about the nuances in Chinese

40:13

philosophy, I feel like I'd be like, I'm gonna double that

40:16

guy's fine. Well, she

40:18

didn't double it, but she certainly didn't,

40:20

you know, cancel it. You

40:23

still had to pay? Yeah, yeah, I paid. This

40:32

all happened years ago. It turns

40:34

out the fine Cabe had to pay was smaller

40:36

than he remembers, and the number of feet for

40:38

parking was larger. But the spirit

40:40

of the story remains the same. Anyway,

40:43

Cabe finally gets an apartment of his

40:45

own and a parking permit for his car, so

40:48

he doesn't have to move it every two hours anymore. But

40:51

it's still hard to find a place to park. And

40:53

sometimes you are just circling the

40:56

streets like for half an hour or an hour.

40:58

It's late at night, you know, and you can't

41:00

find a spot and you're tired, and you're angry,

41:02

and you're hungry, and you're just like, ah. And

41:05

so sometimes you're just desperate. So you'll park somewhere that's

41:07

kind of like borderline illegal.

41:10

So I did that, I like I couldn't take it

41:13

anymore. So I just parked near

41:15

the corner curb, which you're not supposed to.

41:17

And you know, but it was barely touching it, you know, just

41:19

barely. And the next morning, I

41:21

go to my car and you know, I have a ticket. And

41:25

I decided to contest it. Why?

41:28

You actually did something wrong this time. I know.

41:31

But it was so much money. And it

41:33

was so close. I

41:35

don't I just I contested it. What

41:38

were you imagining your argument would be because you can't

41:40

do the spirit of the law letter of the law

41:42

thing in this case. I

41:45

don't know what I was thinking. I thought maybe. I

41:48

don't know, it makes no sense, but I contested it. And

41:52

I go to the same court. I way around

41:54

for a long time. And I get the same judge. And

42:01

she says to me, I remember you. You're

42:04

the guy who talked

42:07

to me about the decision between legalism and essentialism

42:09

in Chinese philosophy. And

42:11

I said, yeah, you remember that? She's like, I do. I

42:14

thought about that a lot. And

42:17

thinking about it, I think you were right. I

42:21

think the spirit of the law is more important than

42:23

the letter of the law. And I regretted

42:25

giving you that ticket. And

42:28

even though you are clearly guilty in this

42:30

case, I'm not going to make

42:32

you pay for this ticket because I made

42:34

you pay for one that you weren't guilty for. So

42:37

she canceled it. That's

42:39

unbelievable. That a

42:41

person could be persuaded by another person? Kind

42:44

of. How often do people change their

42:46

minds? Almost never. Yeah, that's

42:48

true. That's sad. What

42:51

was your reaction? Well, I was

42:53

delighted. And

42:56

I felt like

42:58

the world seemed so inhuman and

43:01

so bureaucratic. And I just

43:03

seemed like the human had prevailed

43:05

for once. Seriously,

43:18

all across the world, on any

43:21

given day, how many people

43:23

actually take the time to listen to what

43:25

a complete stranger has to say, consider

43:27

it, change their mind, and

43:30

then admit to it? Hardly

43:32

ever. And the fact

43:34

that this doesn't happen more often, that's

43:37

a crime and not a minor one.

43:46

Aviva de Quernfeld. Kaveh Z ahead.

43:48

He told this story on his podcast, 365 Things I

43:51

Want to Tell You Before We Both Die. Act

43:58

III, Julian. intentions. So

44:02

sometimes small crimes can be hard to solve because

44:04

they are so small. This

44:06

next story is about a scheme that had been going

44:08

on for a very long time, right under everybody's noses.

44:10

It was brazen, but nobody could figure out

44:13

who was behind it. Michaela Bly told

44:15

the story of what happened on stage at the Moth.

44:18

In the elementary school where I

44:20

teach, there are Legos that are

44:22

very valuable and Legos no one gives

44:25

a shit about. The

44:29

ones you don't really care about are the

44:32

ones there are thousands of. The gray two

44:34

by fours, the black two

44:36

by fours, anything that's red for

44:38

some reason all we have are red Legos.

44:41

And the ones that are

44:43

valuable are the things that you can't

44:45

really find. So there's

44:47

a second grade, a third grade, and

44:49

a fourth grade. Everyone's got bins. And

44:51

in these bins, the things you very

44:53

rarely see are anything

44:56

lime green. I think once upon a time

44:58

we had a set that was lime green.

45:00

Anything that has a picture on it that's

45:02

kind of magical. And then these jewels. They're

45:05

these little plastic, clear, colored

45:08

Legos. And they really look valuable.

45:10

I mean, I'm kind of psyched

45:12

about them too. And every class

45:17

has, especially

45:19

my class, has what I like to

45:21

call the black hole boys. They are

45:23

the boys who sit any time there's

45:25

choice time and put together Legos and

45:27

discuss theories of outer space and infinity.

45:29

And they build spaceships. And they're like,

45:31

well, but okay, but could there be

45:33

a black hole that would be

45:35

strong enough to pull other black holes in? And

45:37

they all sort of think about that for a

45:39

while. And they're

45:42

my boys. I like them. I'm really

45:44

into them. And

45:48

most of playing Legos anywhere

45:51

in my school is really mostly just

45:53

pawing through looking for the valuable ones.

45:55

I mean, of course you could build

45:57

with them, but that's not the fun part. The fun part is I'm

46:00

I found this orange jewel

46:02

or whatever. So that's

46:05

always a big deal. And all the bins

46:07

are outside underneath the cubbies. So every class

46:10

has their bins near

46:12

their class's cubbies. I

46:15

teach third grade. The second graders come to me

46:17

one day, and they say,

46:20

we need your help. We

46:22

think someone's been stealing our jewels. Now,

46:26

they have to dismantle all their legos at

46:28

the end of every week so that it's

46:30

really fair. So you have a chance to

46:33

paw through and find the jewels anew every

46:35

Monday. And they have been noticing that over

46:37

the course of several weeks, they find fewer

46:39

and fewer jewels. And they suspect my class.

46:42

And I say, you know what? That's not

46:44

really fair. I'm sure that it

46:46

is not my guys who are doing that.

46:48

And they say, well, we think you should

46:50

look through their bins at their spaceships and

46:52

find out if they've got our jewels. And I said,

46:55

you know what? That's not what we're going to do.

46:57

We're going to trust them. We're going to ask them,

46:59

did you take those jewels? And if they say no,

47:01

we're going to believe them. Because secretly, I'm thinking, A,

47:03

there's no way my boys did it. And B, I

47:06

don't really want to get in the middle of that if that's what's going

47:08

on. So

47:13

we asked my boys. And the

47:16

ringleader, the head of the black hole boys, Edward,

47:18

is this very smart, very sour kid whose spaceships

47:20

are amazing. I mean, they look like they could

47:22

really go. And he

47:26

says, no, we have not. Have you tried

47:28

the fourth grade? Because those guys think they're

47:30

so big. And

47:34

so me and these three little second

47:36

graders go to the fourth grade. And

47:39

we say to some of the fourth graders who

47:41

are playing with Legos, did you guys take these

47:43

jewels? And the fourth graders say, no. And

47:46

then later privately, they say, are

47:48

you sure the second graders are telling the truth?

47:50

Because they think they're so cute. And

47:56

they're beginning to have a culture of

47:58

fear developing. Across.

48:01

All three grades know and trust each other.

48:03

Everyone sort of looking at each other's things

48:05

that they're building and the teachers are picking

48:07

up on a tooth. I'm sort of watching

48:09

everyone face of thing like I don't remember

48:12

that orange one and that green one end

48:14

of the blue one in the second grade

48:16

of to a that's not, I don't know

48:18

that France and I'm sort of getting answers

48:20

getting there too. But. We're. All kind

48:23

of watch each other and then. I.

48:26

Am getting homer. Edward does his homework and does

48:28

more. whom are they need zoo but he always

48:30

forgets to hand it in and so I just

48:32

randomly you know I go in with cubbies to

48:34

grab the math homework that I know as in

48:36

there. Under the math

48:38

homework. Is. A jewel

48:40

encrusted spaceship. Dazzling.

48:52

The wings. Have wings. And

48:54

those wings have other things.

48:57

And there's a glass window.

48:59

That literally never seen. Before

49:01

in six years I've been teaching there

49:03

has never seen that glass windows. It's

49:05

beautiful. but I'm step at a dilemma.

49:07

What do I do with this if

49:10

I accuse him. Then. Number.

49:12

One the second graders are kind of intense and I'm

49:15

a little. Worried about what they would do. A

49:19

number two I already told the

49:21

second. Grade is it couldn't have possibly been my

49:23

boys. This is my reputation on the line as

49:25

well. I don't want it to have been him.

49:28

And. Could it occurs to me just

49:30

steal it? Could

49:33

just take it speak as if he tried to

49:35

say someone stole the jewel recruited spaceship that would

49:37

be an him that would be his. You know

49:39

that a dilemma he would have. But

49:43

then I realized that be the that could

49:45

possibly framing another kid. And I do have

49:47

I have my line I will not cross

49:50

some not going to frame a kid. Since.

49:52

That I wait for a Friday when we should

49:54

be taking apart are things and he has not

49:57

been taking apart to sit and wait till Friday

49:59

Get him alone. And I say to him

50:01

really casually on the don't forget to take

50:03

a pet your spaceship. And.

50:06

He looks at me. And. He knows

50:08

I now have. Any

50:12

is. and and she says something really

50:14

ballsy he goes. I did. I

50:18

are didn't. Have.

50:25

To go home. Holding. A

50:27

copy. Of send him

50:30

the station. And. I

50:32

say this is an amazing spaceship. Use

50:36

it! A really great job. But

50:39

you gotta let go. And

50:41

we cut a deal. And over the

50:44

course of several weeks we dismantle the spaceship a

50:46

very very slowly he that I can't to smash

50:48

hit. I'm not going to do that and not

50:50

as as take the whole thing apart and I

50:52

start. Secretly. Putting those

50:54

jewels back in other people's hobby.

50:58

For him. So

51:00

that he can fill the the head of the

51:02

black hole boys and not lose that reputation that

51:05

he has that he loves and so that I

51:07

don't have to. Yeah, Go back on my worry

51:09

that my boy didn't do anything, only think anything

51:11

can take home eating. A

51:19

blog. A

51:24

whore of and toilet. of

51:27

his early on I so we had a mom who

51:30

invented in entire court room. To teach

51:32

your kids and lessons and values. In.

51:34

This act we apparent doing something so

51:36

much simpler. To. Simply trying to level

51:38

with their kids. And reason

51:41

with them together. And.

51:43

In this case, The recorded what happened.

51:46

With. Actually change him but his name's of the kids request.

51:49

At the Hospital story. Taught.

51:51

In a Me live in a house in New Jersey. It's

51:54

an old house. And one day they

51:56

noticed they've got a plumbing problem. There's.

51:58

Liquid pulling in the whole. in their

52:00

basement floor around a sewage pipe. They

52:03

call a plumber who snakes the drain and

52:06

charges them $500. And

52:08

then a few weeks later the liquid

52:10

reappears. A second plumber comes in. He

52:13

can't find any other problems with their sewage system.

52:16

His professional opinion is that there isn't anything

52:19

wrong with their sewage system. He

52:21

thinks what's going on is much simpler.

52:23

The liquid in the hole is

52:25

actually pee. Someone in

52:28

their house is peeing in the hole. Quick

52:31

warning I have to make because we're on the radio. Peeing

52:33

comes up a bunch of times in the story. Nothing

52:35

gross but just so you know. What

52:38

the plumber suggested seemed entirely

52:40

possible. Amy and Todd

52:42

have three boys, eight-year-old twins, Ryan and

52:44

Lawrence, and their younger brother, Hugh. He's

52:47

six. And so

52:50

they gather the kids together to find out who

52:52

peed in the hole. Amy,

52:55

their mom, records a video of the

52:57

meeting on her phone. We

53:00

had the plumber come again

53:03

and two times in

53:05

rough just over three weeks there's

53:08

been like urine backed up in

53:11

the basement like pee. Now

53:15

that's Ryan, twin number one. They're

53:18

all sitting on a navy blue sectional. Todd

53:20

keeps calmly laying out the facts. Yes,

53:23

they think there's pee on the basement

53:25

floor. Yeah, like in

53:27

that little recess in

53:29

that little like home

53:31

floor. The one who just said not

53:34

me, that's Hugh, the little one. Lawrence,

53:37

twin number two hasn't said anything yet.

53:40

He's quiet with a blank expression on his

53:42

face. Then Ryan asks

53:44

a question. He wants to know

53:46

if it's possible that

53:49

the dog did

53:54

it. So it is entirely

53:56

possible. My question to any of

53:58

you is... has any

54:00

of you ever gone and

54:03

just peed in that hole

54:05

in the basement. No!

54:07

That's disgusting! You swear.

54:10

Yes, yes! I'm a human! Because

54:12

here's the thing. That I promise there,

54:14

that's Lawrence, the quiet twin. He

54:17

breaks his silence. So

54:19

now all three children have denied peeing

54:22

in the hole. Their dad tries to

54:24

explain to the kids, someone peeing

54:26

in the hole is actually the best

54:28

possible scenario. It would

54:30

not be good and I would not be

54:33

happy, but it would be preferable that if

54:35

someone is doing this, they are honest, because

54:38

the other explanation is that we

54:40

have a bad sewage problem that

54:43

no one can explain. So

54:46

it's actually better if someone

54:49

just says, yes, it was me, it was

54:51

an accident, I did it twice, because

54:53

then at least we are not

54:56

crazy and we don't have to have a plumber

54:58

come again. Yeah, because we already spent a

55:00

lot of money trying to figure

55:02

out what's going on. What's going on here? Okay.

55:05

It was me, Ryan says. But

55:08

then it turns out he

55:10

was just trying to get the interrogation over with.

55:12

Why didn't P.M. ever try to say that? No,

55:14

that doesn't help. If

55:17

you're lying, that doesn't help. We just want you

55:19

guys to be honest, okay? I am. Just tell

55:21

us. No,

55:29

we're not. Okay, let's go one by

55:31

one. They

55:34

ask every child again, starting

55:36

with twin number one, Ryan. Have

55:39

you peed? Did you honestly, did you have your

55:41

own? In that thing. In that hole. Okay, here's

55:43

another question. We're

55:45

talking about now. We're talking about there was

55:48

this weekend and three weeks ago. I never

55:50

peed. Okay. Did you see anybody of your

55:52

brothers do it? I never saw anybody pee.

55:55

Okay, next. Next. Next,

55:57

Hugh, the youngest. He's

55:59

in The thing with a rainbow. but

56:01

Mick fanning himself with him. Do.

56:03

You mean none at the end where

56:06

you don't. Know and

56:08

use it under your desk.

56:11

Finally, Lawrence twin number two.

56:13

He answers the question with the

56:15

directness of a politician. Caught up

56:18

in a scandal I see

56:20

in the whole okay. Guys

56:25

annexing work and as as President we've got a

56:28

good out of the police department. They have a

56:30

lie detector test. And. I

56:32

said. The twins Ryan

56:34

and Lawrence are in. But.

56:36

You the little one less had a nervous

56:38

giggle. See some before we got

56:41

a the place Iran Can anyone tell

56:43

the truth? Is

56:45

you suits his head in the air. His.

56:47

Eyes are wide and he's smiling. There

56:50

was. You know me better suited.

56:53

As. I used.

56:57

To. Be a

56:59

good idea. How many times. Ones

57:02

and to me. How

57:05

many times we want? Somebody

57:07

it has how it and have to it

57:09

was a has happened more than one time. As.

57:12

A family dinner like three

57:15

hour? Why? It's

57:17

so now they need to go.

57:19

skill that in lines and one

57:21

guy my knee so. So

57:27

far away from the bathroom listeners,

57:29

there is a bathroom in the

57:31

basement There twenty five Sep said

57:33

separate the bathroom from the play

57:35

area. Maybe. A few more at

57:37

your legs are short. You: How many times

57:39

did he do. Down

57:41

there whole three times in the basement.

57:46

Fry. Are

57:49

illiterate making five hundred dollars that a

57:51

your bank account. And.

57:55

Have zero money houses for his.

57:59

Case closed. You

58:07

need to clean up. This whole thing

58:09

was yeah half the time but also

58:11

to bring these kids into the adult

58:13

world for just a moment. see the

58:15

situation the way they do. But

58:18

you know there's probably too much to

58:20

ask. Kids live in their own world.

58:22

It's a world without plumber. If you

58:24

charge five hundred dollars, it's a world

58:27

where a hole in the ground looks

58:29

like a perfectly good place to p.

58:37

An option is an editor in a. Hurry

58:54

Or. Does

59:34

it is for them is produced by of

59:36

either the coins out to people with together

59:38

to a and could be mad when they

59:40

fear been engine day bonds of ha some

59:42

for Michael Com attack on us up he

59:44

was routinely Catherine May Mondo know your room

59:46

and saw through a riddle. Ryan Rummery, Francis

59:48

Swanson, Christmas of Column Attorney Julie Whitaker and

59:50

Diane Whoop are managing interests are Abdur Rahman

59:52

our senior editor David Kassebaum her executive editor

59:55

is manual Mary was a thanks to dedicate

59:57

Emirates Penelope Ss one second mean no one

59:59

or it Alexis. Which Ghazi, Jamaica Brown

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