0:10

Good day to you. You absolute beauty.

0:12

Welcome to Therapy Natters,

0:15

the podcast series where myself, Richard

0:17

Nicholls, and fellow psychotherapist,

0:19

Fiona Biddle, answer questions or

0:22

natter about something to do with psychotherapy.

0:25

Whether you even think you'd

0:27

benefit from therapy or not. Spoiler.

0:31

Yeah, you would everybody would, and

0:34

if you don't believe that, then uh,

0:36

you're clearly in denial, which means you need even more therapy

0:38

than you thought you did in the first place. I'm

0:42

exaggerating for effect Fiona but there's

0:44

some truth in that I think

0:45

Oh, actually, I think there's rather a lot of truth

0:48

in that. Yes. I do

0:50

agree. But also, I mean, we are not just pushing

0:53

therapy and saying you need it,

0:55

whoever you are. We are also, I

0:58

hope, well, for me, I'm

1:00

sure both of us we're wanting

1:02

to introduce psychotherapeutic

1:04

ideas that

1:06

people can just listen to and go,

1:09

oh. And maybe

1:12

they have an effect without having

1:14

to go to a therapist

1:15

I'm all about the psych of education think

1:18

that's actually a bigger part

1:20

of Therapy than

1:22

people think. At least it

1:24

is in my therapy room.

1:27

I do quite a lot of psychoeducation sort

1:29

of teaching people about theories,

1:32

but in a very appropriate

1:34

way. Some people don't need to hear any of it at all. not

1:38

in the slightest. They just need to talk about the

1:40

problems that they've got and hear me

1:42

say This makes sense rather than this

1:44

makes sense and this is why according to the theories

1:47

it so depends on the

1:49

person, and I mean, I, I know of therapists

1:53

who say you should never

1:56

talk about the theory, and others

1:58

who say you should always talk about the theory.

2:01

Uh, And as usual,

2:02

sorry You're both wrong

2:04

as usual, we end up

2:06

somewhere in the middle. At this

2:09

time, we're not sitting on a fence. We just come down

2:11

on different sides of the fence, depending

2:14

on the person who's there

2:16

with us and their, their situation.

2:18

Some people really want to know and are very,

2:20

very interested and for others

2:22

it's just doesn't seem

2:25

relevant So We go, with

2:27

that

2:28

and that's gonna be the same, not just for therapy,

2:30

but for everything like

2:33

these podcast episodes, there

2:35

are gonna be some that people will skip. We

2:37

did an episode about psychoanalysis

2:40

last week. We did one the week before that or

2:43

the one week before that. Before that, about

2:45

couples counselling. Really

2:48

interesting subjects. Some people are gonna

2:50

skip those because they're not interested.

2:53

And yet actually until you

2:55

listen to it, you don't know how relevant

2:58

those ideas might be in

3:00

your life to help you understand not just

3:02

yourself better, but everybody around you as

3:04

well. And today's episode is

3:06

gonna be one of those I think that I think

3:08

I

3:09

can listen to and go, didn't

3:11

even know that this existed but

3:13

it's really interesting

3:16

I think the majority

3:18

of people will have some idea of

3:21

the starting point of

3:24

today's, but where we're going to start

3:26

from is to say that what

3:28

people tend to think

3:29

Is wrong

3:30

isn't right

3:32

Yeah.

3:32

What we, we're going to attempt

3:35

to talk about today is to,

3:38

look at the work of, a

3:40

psychiatrist called Ian McGilchrist,

3:44

who wrote a book called The

3:46

Master and his Emissary basically

3:48

about the two hemispheres

3:50

of the brain and how they differ and

3:53

how they work together, in an ideal world.

3:56

It is a very heavy tome

3:59

literally and figuratively.

4:02

He has written a follow-up book

4:04

called The Matter With Things, which

4:07

is so big, it's in two volumes.

4:10

And it's very good for flattening

4:12

things that have got creased.

4:15

So if you're gonna buy a copy of Iain Mcgilchrist's

4:17

work, and you wanna take it on holiday with

4:19

you best buy it in epub Kindle

4:22

format

4:23

One of my supervisees I spoke

4:25

to and he was on holiday and

4:28

he said, I've just started reading the matter with things

4:30

And I said, oh, I'm reading Richard Osman

4:33

when I'm on holiday.

4:34

Yeah me too actually,

4:37

And did

4:38

Yes Good. They're good, aren't they?

4:40

Oh yeah I'm loving the loving His recent one. They're

4:42

only halfway through.

4:43

Oh

4:44

cause I

4:44

I've done number three That was

4:46

what I read

4:47

lovely.

4:48

last time Yes.

4:49

like him to be my friend Hey Richard please be my

4:51

friend

4:51

Yes,

4:52

lovely wife who was in Doctor Who she's

4:54

great

4:55

Absolutely. it's like lying

4:58

in a warm bath with a glass

5:00

of wine to read those books.

5:02

It's just lovely. Not

5:05

to everybody's taste Anyway, we really have gone

5:07

off on a tangent.

5:08

sorry

5:09

Okay, so we we're talking

5:11

about the master in his Emissary by

5:14

Ian McGilchrist. Lots

5:16

of people have said,

5:18

people I know reviews, et cetera, that it's

5:21

really changed their lives to read

5:23

this book. The book itself

5:25

is divided into two parts. The first is

5:27

the, the science really

5:30

of the brain and

5:32

what the two hemispheres do

5:35

with lots of Examples

5:38

that they've found through people who've got brain

5:40

injuries, if half of your brain

5:42

is wiped out then you know what it does

5:44

because of what you can't do

5:46

Sadly, that's how a lot work is done. We

5:48

can't ethically start taking out parts of

5:50

people's brains to go, oh this is the part for

5:52

numbers Oh that makes sense. We've

5:55

gotta wait for somebody to have a stroke

5:57

They can do little bits with um, numbing

5:59

bits. Yes, they can. they can.

6:01

they can do some, but not an awful

6:03

lot. But the second part, just as

6:06

explain what the second part is, the the

6:08

idea of the title the

6:10

Master and his Emissary as

6:13

I said earlier, most of us have some

6:15

idea because it has been in

6:17

popular culture for, for

6:19

years and years and years.

6:21

be a left-brained person or a right-brained person

6:23

Yeah. And, and the right brain is the creative

6:25

one, and the left brain is the logical. And

6:29

maths is in the left brain and art is in

6:31

the right and.

6:32

Yes of course

6:32

Those sorts of ideas. So

6:35

let's just start there In terms

6:37

of the title of the book, McgGilchrist's

6:40

idea is that the

6:43

right brain should be

6:46

and actually is the

6:48

master and the left brain

6:50

should do what the right

6:53

brain asks it to do. I

6:55

was very careful there I think my, my brain made

6:58

sure I said asks not tell.

7:00

Yeah

7:01

Uh, that was in, in my brain. I'm not quite

7:03

sure where. But that was asks

7:05

it to do. But in the

7:08

western world, and he goes back to

7:10

ancient Greece and Rome. And from

7:12

then that the left brain

7:15

has dominated And

7:18

so it's the emissary

7:20

taking over and doing what it

7:23

thinks is right rather than what

7:25

the master has told

7:27

it to do.

7:29

Hmm

7:29

So that's the, the basis of the

7:32

book, the second part being

7:34

his explanation of why he thinks

7:36

that this is what has happened in the Western world

7:39

and why it's a problem and why it is still

7:41

a problem now. We

7:43

are not going to get into that side of things here

7:45

for a start. We've only got half an hour. And

7:47

also that's a sort of sociological

7:50

issue, not a psychological issue.

7:52

We we talk about individuals

7:54

and relationships between individuals, so,

7:58

but just to know that's where the title comes from

8:00

and that's what the book's about. So

8:02

we are talking about the first half of the book. So

8:05

we're going back again to this idea of what

8:07

popular culture has said and

8:10

Mcgilchrist says, It's wrong

8:13

because both halves do

8:16

everything So

8:18

you need both halves for reason.

8:22

You need both halves for imagination.

8:25

But they do these things

8:27

in different ways. Perhaps

8:30

just as a way of starting this off

8:32

with something that people will I'm

8:34

sure be able to understand even if they didn't

8:36

know it, 'cause I certainly didn't

8:38

know it when I read the book. If

8:40

you think of a bird just an ordinary

8:43

common British garden bird

8:45

that's pecking away amongst

8:48

gravel to find little bugs

8:50

to eat. That bird

8:53

will be using its left brain

8:56

to focus in on

8:59

finding those little edible

9:02

bits within the gravel. So

9:04

it's very highly focused to

9:07

find those.

9:08

Yeah Especially if it's looking for seeds

9:11

'cause they look like stones

9:12

yes yes, And the

9:14

right brain is looking at everything

9:17

else. So typically it'll be looking

9:20

for predators. So to see if there's a cat

9:22

nearby and they've

9:24

done experiments with, blocking

9:26

off the eyes of birds so they

9:29

can see that, very

9:31

clearly that that is what they, are doing

9:33

So they, know that that's very clearly what

9:35

is happening. So let

9:38

me go through a list of typical

9:40

things that the two halves focus

9:43

on. Probably isn't the right word. 'cause

9:45

that's what the left does. Focus

9:48

Oh yeah Yeah

9:49

the, the left brain, and

9:51

there's lots of these, so you might want

9:53

to go through them slowly when you rewind

9:56

the left categorizes, it's

10:00

responsible for fine motor control. It's

10:03

detail orientated functionary,

10:06

mechanistic. It looks for prey.

10:08

It closes down to certainty,

10:12

doesn't like uncertainty, wants everything

10:14

to be explicit. So

10:16

it's making implicit things explicit.

10:19

It's abstractive, impersonal, competitive.

10:23

It promotes rivalry. It

10:25

holds individual self-belief, whether

10:28

positive or negative language,

10:30

sorry, not language. It speaks the

10:32

left is the part that speaks language

10:34

is in both. Self

10:37

referring, theoretical, anger

10:40

is the only emotion that's in the left. It

10:43

likes things that are known that are fixed, divides

10:46

things into parts. Likes

10:48

black and white thinking. And

10:52

a couple of really lovely ones. It

10:54

doesn't like responsibility and

10:56

will deny involvement in anything

10:58

that reveals a weakness and

11:02

evidence of being wrong tends to strengthen

11:04

the belief that it's right. Now,

11:06

as I say, those two, uh, You

11:09

know, I'm, I, I, I'm, I'm smiling

11:11

as I say. Well, everybody does

11:13

it, don't they? To an extent.

11:15

It's a question of the extent that

11:18

you do it, so that's, that's the left. And

11:21

one of the sort of summaries is it's

11:23

not alive. And

11:26

so then the right, remember

11:28

the left was part orientated divided

11:31

things into parts. The right is whole orientated.

11:35

It has an immediate relationship with

11:37

physical bodies through the senses. Looks

11:40

for predators. It's exploratory,

11:43

opens up to possibility, holds

11:45

contexts It's personal. Self-awareness

11:49

is within the right hemisphere. Empathy

11:52

is there too. Identification with others.

11:55

Inter-subjective processes. Any

11:58

emotion other than anger is

12:00

in the right hemisphere. Bonding.

12:03

Has language but not speech. As I said it's

12:06

open to nature and experiences alive

12:09

and present. It

12:11

likes new things. It's looking for

12:13

differences It's flow

12:15

and shades of gray. Now,

12:19

if you think back to that bird that

12:23

has one half looking for the seeds

12:25

amongst the gravel and the other part looking

12:27

for predators that's quite simple

12:30

because, well, it's

12:32

a bird. Humans have

12:36

more to their brains than that. So

12:38

without getting technical, because

12:41

I can't, I have to distill it down, which

12:43

is a left brain function. We

12:45

have our frontal lobes and the frontal

12:48

lobes, their job is

12:51

to inhibit, and by

12:54

inhibit I mean it says Stop

12:57

Okay

12:58

stopping. Immediate responses.

13:00

Immediate action. So

13:02

we can step back. The bird

13:04

doesn't have the ability to step back

13:06

and look at the whole world and think, Hmm,

13:10

maybe I've had enough seed for today. Maybe

13:13

I should go and sit on the nest for a bit now. it

13:16

doesn't have the bit that says

13:18

Stop and have a think and a look, So

13:20

we have the opportunity to stand back,

13:23

and that gives us the opportunity not only

13:25

to analyze our

13:28

world, but other

13:30

people's world so we can understand other

13:33

people because of that

13:35

inhibitory function. So

13:37

we don't immediately get

13:40

angry and, and hit somebody. We

13:43

We have that function in the middle that

13:46

stops us immediately

13:49

And without the executive function

13:51

that the frontal lobes provide If if

13:53

the frontal lobes go offline for some reason because

13:55

we are overly emotional, then

13:58

it's not inhibiting those urges to lash

14:00

out

14:01

Yeah because we can then empathize

14:05

and see the bigger picture for

14:07

ourself and the impact of what an action

14:09

might be. But we can see the impact on

14:12

somebody else because empathy is

14:14

sort of saying I can see that they are

14:16

like me.

14:18

Hmm

14:19

But what this also means then is

14:21

that the left

14:24

brain is manipulative,

14:28

which is a word that's used in our

14:30

language as a negative, but it

14:32

doesn't have to be because we are manipulating

14:35

the world around us all the time. If

14:38

we grow potatoes, we

14:41

are manipulating the world to feed us.

14:43

Yeah

14:44

So we have the ability

14:47

to make things grow food.

14:49

But also there is then the other

14:51

side of the empathy is that there is the ability

14:54

to manipulate other people. But

14:56

that's not always a bad thing either. A

14:59

boss is manipulating their workforce

15:02

by asking them to do particular tasks

15:04

Well, yeah, we are manipulating each

15:06

other all the time. Sometimes

15:08

that's for deliberately selfish

15:11

reasons. Yeah. I'll make this

15:13

nice meal for

15:15

my girlfriend and it'll

15:17

mean that she'll put out for

15:19

me, you know, Whereas

15:22

when you've been married 27 years, you just

15:24

want a nice meal. Actually,

15:28

I've only been married 20 years, but we were together for seven

15:31

years before that ...But

15:33

no, I like a nice meal because it's nice to give

15:35

my wife a nice meal. Not not

15:37

for any manipulative reasons, but

15:40

it's still, it's still

15:41

I'm yeah I'm trying to manipulate

15:43

it is you, you are making her happy.

15:46

I had my brother to stay last weekend

15:48

and he really enjoyed the

15:50

meals that I made him. I was so happy.

15:53

I felt really good. And, I

15:56

made a, a present for Nazar,

15:58

my Ukrainian boy, and

16:02

he loved it and I felt so good, but

16:05

technically I'd manipulated

16:07

because I'd made him feel good and I

16:09

made myself feel good because he felt good

16:12

But that's I think good

16:14

Well, yeah, 'cause you're doing it for the right reasons.

16:16

If those are trying to manipulate the external

16:18

world, because that's the only way

16:21

that they can feel good. And without that they feel

16:23

bad Then Yeah. there's there's something

16:25

to look at there

16:27

Yeah. So I think it's, about being

16:29

clear with language, and we'll come onto language

16:32

in a bit, but just to finish the the

16:34

general premise of the, whole idea.

16:37

I mentioned briefly, but I want to say

16:39

it again. The right is always

16:41

looking for exceptions. We've

16:43

talked about, I'm sure we've talked about before, that

16:46

the vast majority of things that we see and

16:48

hear and experience are

16:50

agreeing with our previous model

16:52

of the

16:52

Yeah. we have a cognitive bias don't we

16:55

to look for things that we already believe

16:57

but the Right, yeah. The right

16:59

is always keeping an

17:02

eye out for exceptions because exceptions

17:04

then you, you, really need

17:06

to do something if you know it's

17:09

actually in the middle of the night, last night I heard a very strange

17:11

noise and that was

17:13

the right brain perceiving that's

17:16

not normal. And then

17:19

what it does is it hands it over to

17:21

the left brain. Funny

17:23

'cause I should have been aware of this at the time given we were talking about

17:25

this, but I wasn't. But this is what happened

17:28

'cause I know the process, it hands

17:30

it over to the left brain to

17:33

categorize it, to put that into a

17:35

box because the left brain

17:37

needs to have it in a box And

17:40

the box that my left brain put it

17:42

in was, I think the

17:44

printer's doing some sort of calibration.

17:48

They do sometimes, don't they printers,

17:50

they some sometimes do something

17:52

completely random. Now

17:55

I've no idea if that's what it was 'cause it was

17:57

a very quick short noise

17:59

that I've no other way to do

18:01

it. But, so my left brain was

18:04

happy to put it in that box.

18:07

it categorized it as unusual but safe

18:09

yes, this is okay. It's not a

18:12

burglar. And then

18:14

it sends that back, to

18:17

the right brain as a

18:19

representation. And

18:21

the final thing before we look at some

18:23

other bits is that the right

18:25

brain is never completely knowable.

18:28

It doesn't have speech, it does have some

18:31

language and it

18:33

very much likes metaphors, I

18:36

should imagine that some of our listeners are saying yeah,

18:38

and so?

18:39

Yeah How is this appropriate What are you talking about telling

18:41

me about this for Yeah

18:43

so what, what's, what's the point of all this? The

18:46

point is, well, several points. One

18:48

is that perhaps we could

18:51

encourage our left brains

18:53

to listen to the right more and

18:56

to allow the right more

18:59

say even though it doesn't speak

19:01

And how do We do that We do that by

19:04

giving it permission by quietening

19:06

the mind

19:07

Yep. Yeah. I mean, I, I do

19:10

quite regularly simply ask,

19:13

I mean, this is when I would usually use

19:15

the terms conscious and unconscious and,

19:18

and for a while it all subconscious, I tend

19:20

to use For a while it was

19:22

fashionable to say that

19:24

the left brain was the conscious and the right brain was

19:26

the unconscious or subconscious,

19:28

and then that went outta fashion. But

19:31

it sort of comes back in this

19:33

context that if the left

19:35

brain is the bit that speaks, you

19:39

do need to listen in a different way

19:41

to the right brain. I

19:44

will quite often in my own life

19:47

ask my subconscious, what

19:49

do you think about that? And what

19:52

I get is usually feelings

19:56

or pictures that the

19:59

left then decodes into

20:01

words

20:02

Right. Okay Now

20:04

to do that as a

20:07

hypnotherapist to me it's

20:09

about practicing hypnosis.

20:11

Yes

20:12

'cause you've been doing that for what 25

20:15

years plus 30

20:17

been in p I've been in practice for 30 years

20:19

and I was using hypnosis, via

20:22

tapes from Dick Sutphen for

20:26

probably three or four years before that So long

20:28

time I've been doing hypnosis in

20:30

one way or another

20:31

So you, you can communicate with

20:34

your unconscious slash subconscious

20:36

quite easily 'cause you've been doing

20:39

it a lot. our

20:41

listeners if they want to would gain a lot of benefit

20:43

from practicing hypnosis.

20:45

and it's not difficult No

20:47

it's not. When I first

20:49

got involved in hypnosis, I

20:52

thought it was something more magical, and mysterious

20:54

than it was because we wanted it

20:56

wanted be we wanted it

20:58

and It's It's it's made out

21:01

to be It was 'cause, yeah,

21:03

the stage, the stage hypnotists of getting

21:05

volunteers up to play, act, and improvise,

21:08

which is just amateur dramatics.

21:10

It's just people having a laugh. Hypnosis can

21:12

help people feel a little bit more relaxed, and the

21:14

stage is the perfect place to show off if you ever want to.

21:16

So if you ask the volunteers, the

21:18

only people that are gonna get up are those that wanna

21:20

show off in front of their friends

21:22

And they wouldn't tell. Well, some, some of

21:24

them would never be able to do otherwise. So

21:28

it's, it's their only opportunity to do

21:30

it. Then also you've got the

21:32

compliance factor.

21:33

Yeah

21:34

People don't want to show up the

21:36

person on the stage

21:38

Especially if, especially if the

21:40

hypnotist says things like, I

21:43

can tell that because you're quite an intelligent person

21:46

that you're gonna be very good at this. Things like

21:48

that. It's quite manipulative But of course it's

21:50

just, it's what you do and.

21:55

That did plant a seed in my mind that says that

21:57

hypnosis was more complicated than

21:59

it actually was because look it can make

22:01

that man think he's in love with a mop. But

22:03

actually, no, no, it can't

22:06

make anybody think they're in love with a mop But

22:09

what it can do, is give you

22:11

permission to get out of your own

22:14

way and do

22:16

the things that you want to do. And

22:18

get more in touch with what all

22:21

parts of you want and need. But

22:23

it means listening to that I dunno,

22:25

any Other way of doing it apart from with hypnosis, I

22:27

mean we can call it meditation. A lot of people will

22:29

use Meditation and hypnosis

22:32

fairly interchangeably. And

22:34

there probably are some differences biologically

22:37

but it's the same far as

22:39

we are doesn't,

22:40

it doesn't bother me. The differences.

22:43

I mean, there are, there are other ways for

22:46

example you could Have a stream

22:48

of consciousness writing could,

22:51

yeah, you could Journaling

22:54

yeah, Yeah Yeah Sort of say

22:56

to your subconscious draw

22:58

a picture that that doesn't

23:00

have to be a picture. Draw something that

23:03

represents how you feel about this particular

23:06

thing.

23:06

Like the Rorschach Ink block tests,

23:09

Yes

23:09

which I dunno why they always, they're

23:12

nonsense. They are 'cause it's just always a

23:14

picture of my dad, shouting

23:18

Why did they why did they do that nonsense

23:21

Well, I don't I dunno I think you might have

23:23

just contradicted yourself 'cause

23:25

I'm joking.

23:27

Oh I see Sorry

23:29

My dad wasn't a shouter from what I remember

23:32

Uh, The, the Rorschach Ink

23:34

block test is, that it gives you

23:36

the opportunity to say

23:39

whatever it is that's that's deep down

23:42

that you wouldn't otherwise say

23:45

because you, you see it in the,

23:47

in the picture. I mean, I'm not a,

23:50

not a huge fan. Never

23:52

done it. But yeah, there, there,

23:54

there are ways, but, you know, hypnosis

23:56

works. It's, it's simple. It's

23:59

easy, and any hypnotherapist

24:01

can teach you to do self

24:03

hypnosis, there's various ways. You

24:05

could go for one session, learn how to do it,

24:07

and then practice. it's

24:10

it's like anything else. If you don't practice

24:12

it then the

24:14

skill will Not

24:16

develop and or fade and that can

24:18

be as simple as just like you.

24:20

You learned hypnosis for yourself, just

24:23

listening to some old tapes, audio

24:25

tapes, and just going through

24:28

the instructions. YouTube

24:30

is full of those things. Us

24:32

and some colleagues have got a YouTube channel with

24:34

some things on. There's always a

24:36

link in the show notes. Go and have a listen to

24:38

those things on there. Although somebody did message

24:40

us and say you know, YouTube

24:42

puts adverts in the middle because that's

24:44

how YouTube make their money. I'm like, damn.

24:47

'cause we don't have adverts on there, so we, we,

24:50

don't earn anything from it. but halfway through

24:53

it goes eh, and an advert comes on

24:55

for something and then the hypnosis track starts again.

24:58

I. Damn you YouTube.

25:01

But hey, if you subscribe to my newsletter,

25:03

there's a subscription form on my website You'll

25:05

get a link to ad free stuff. I'll

25:10

I'll I'll put a link in the show notes and

25:13

the the also, I mean, you

25:16

can listen to an online YouTube

25:19

audio an a with,

25:21

with an ad blocker. Oh, I'm not saying you should

25:23

use an ad blocker. Don't use an ad blocker. I'm

25:26

not suggesting you should do that. But

25:28

there's a reason why I know that was

25:30

putting adverts in the middle of my videos I.

25:33

think it might be something we need to look at because the

25:35

ones that I listen to, and I do listen

25:37

to yours on Bruxism Richard,

25:40

If I find myself doing that, I

25:42

can feel that tooth now. if I find myself

25:44

doing that, I'll listen to you and it stops.

25:47

The point I was getting to was that

25:50

it doesn't really matter what they're doing.

25:52

Once you've got into that state, you

25:54

can ignore what they're

25:57

saying or switch it off and stay

25:59

in that state and have a

26:01

little chat with your own,

26:03

two hemispheres of

26:05

your mind. And also

26:09

simply, she says, simply, Look

26:12

at your own life and

26:15

see whether it's

26:17

too dominated for you

26:20

by one side or the other. And

26:23

how

26:23

you find that it is, well

26:26

listen back to, listen

26:28

back to those uh, the list that

26:30

I gave earlier of the

26:32

functions of the two

26:34

Being a dichotomous thinker, everything's

26:37

black or white You're either with me or against me

26:39

Yeah

26:40

of attitudes

26:41

if you're finding that, that is dominating

26:44

over emotion and empathy

26:46

and creativity and

26:49

whole world thinking and shades

26:51

of gray, if you find that that's happening,

26:54

well, you can do something

26:57

about it. You can rebalance

26:59

yourself. You don't want to go

27:02

to the other extreme 'cause

27:04

extremes are generally not good. But

27:07

maybe allow some more of that in

27:11

Mm-hmm And the opposite

27:13

would be if somebody's Can

27:15

you be too open-minded

27:17

I love that phrase of you should be open-minded

27:20

but not so open-minded

27:21

your brain falls out.

27:22

falls out. Yeah. you can be

27:24

too open-minded. You can be too, globally

27:28

viewing. You can be Too empathic.

27:30

You can be too emotional, but

27:33

what too means in

27:35

that context needs to

27:37

be personally defined. It's

27:40

not for anybody else to say you are too this,

27:42

too that. But you could be.

27:45

It's more of a character that's springing

27:47

to mind, actually from a TV program.

27:50

But I won't go into that 'cause it's not right. But

27:52

I think you, you could be, it might

27:55

be a bit caricature, but you

27:57

have a, have a little think. I mean, somebody

28:00

who's very very right brained might

28:03

not get much done.

28:04

Mm

28:05

Well, that might be okay, but

28:07

Doesn't pay bills

28:09

Yes. If you are in a. situation

28:12

where you need to go

28:14

to work and do these tasks

28:17

in order to get paid In order to pay

28:19

the bills, then yeah,

28:22

might not be. But then if

28:24

you were, oh, do you know,

28:26

I was just gonna say if you were Michelangelo, but no that's

28:28

not right because Michelangelo, when he was

28:31

painting the Sistine Chapel ceiling, he

28:33

must have still had a plan. and

28:36

be very organized as to

28:39

where his paints were and what

28:41

was going to go where I'm sure he didn't just

28:44

start in the corner and work his way

28:46

across.

28:46

in Yeah

28:48

So even sort the,

28:51

heights of that sort of, that

28:53

that level of creativity, There

28:55

still has to be the left brain

28:58

involvement

29:00

Hmm. Otherwise you don't get started. Whether

29:03

you, whether we were talking about We

29:05

were talking about Richard Osman and his, and his, and his books.

29:08

I was reading a chapter yesterday 'cause I had a client reschedule

29:10

and I thought, oh, I've got an hour. I'll sit and read.

29:12

I read for about 20 minutes and ended up replying

29:15

to emails instead. But, you know, it

29:17

is what it is. Nobody just

29:19

sits there and suddenly they've got a

29:21

keyboard in front of them and a word processor

29:24

and go, right. So what am I gonna write about? I'm

29:26

just gonna let I'm gonna gonna free associate into

29:28

this and see what comes out. You're

29:31

gonna get possibly the

29:33

same equivalent as you would if you've got an infinite

29:35

number of monkeys and an infinite number of typewriters.

29:38

Yeah, you wait long enough you've got a book but

29:40

you're gonna have to wait billions of years.

29:43

You need a plan first that says,

29:46

yeah, I've already done

29:48

a lot of logical work

29:50

here to know what to do and how to do

29:53

it, and whether that's about Writing

29:55

a book, painting a picture, or personal development

29:58

and changing your life, finding work, making

30:00

new friends. It doesn't happen

30:03

by itself. We have

30:05

to logically think about

30:07

the steps to make it happen and

30:09

then embrace how that feels

30:12

there was a bit in, in, in

30:14

the book where McGilchrist

30:16

talks about rationality and

30:19

that we can't prove

30:22

that being rational is a good thing.

30:24

We can only intuit that

30:26

rationality is a good thing, which is using your

30:29

right brain to say that

30:31

the left brain's process is

30:34

a good one, which I rather liked. It's

30:36

sort of circular. I just wanted to

30:38

talk a little bit about language. One

30:41

of his ideas is that all

30:43

language is metaphorical.

30:47

And he talks about the

30:49

start of language, which will

30:51

have been descriptive of processes.

30:54

And he uses the idea that when

30:57

we are doing a

30:59

task in the fields, so

31:02

we might grasp the spade

31:05

to dig the earth. And

31:08

then that word grasp, which

31:10

is describing a left

31:12

brain activity. cause

31:15

it's the left brain that will say, you need to

31:17

dig that So use your right

31:19

hand. Usually left brain tells the right hand.

31:22

We can't get into the people

31:25

who are left-handed. But that's really

31:27

interesting. But we can't get into that now. But

31:29

then we use that word grasp

31:32

to also talk

31:35

about understanding something.

31:37

Yes

31:38

And when you reminded me,

31:41

Richard yesterday when

31:43

I said shall we talk about this? I said,

31:45

shall we grasp the nettle?

31:47

Yeah

31:48

And I didn't even notice that I'd

31:51

use that metaphor

31:54

For talking about a

31:55

would for talking about a complicated

31:57

topic. So it's it's

31:59

absolutely fascinating though. I mean, I would recommend

32:02

people look at the book or you can

32:04

find YouTube summaries.

32:06

There's conversations that

32:09

Mcgilchrist has with various interviews.

32:12

There's also one where he's talking with

32:14

John Cleese that's on YouTube

32:17

is interesting. And

32:19

there's a cartoony one that, what's

32:21

called doodly or something that

32:26

which we are going to put in the show notes, aren't we A

32:28

link to that, that the Royal

32:30

Society of Arts created. And

32:33

that goes through what we've

32:36

been talking about if

32:38

you are interested

32:39

Mm-hmm. And I think Like

32:42

with so many topics, if this is something that

32:44

you're more interested in than

32:47

you thought, and this is wet

32:49

your appetite, go and

32:51

find out more. Because we've

32:53

got the world

32:55

at our fingertips. If you're

32:57

listening to this podcast, then you've got access

33:00

to the internet. We

33:02

need to take advantage of that We get so accustomed

33:06

to this. It wasn't that

33:08

long ago when, when I was studying,

33:11

say, hypnotherapy, back

33:13

in 2000 I did

33:15

have access to the internet, and it was that, that gave

33:17

me the enthusiasm

33:20

to learn more. But I still

33:22

had to go and read a lot of books. If

33:24

we didn't have YouTube, we didn't have blogs.

33:27

There was a few, but not very many, not

33:29

like there is now. we genuinely

33:31

have no excuse

33:34

to absorb the things that you're interested

33:37

in and soak it up and

33:39

make time for it and

33:42

make time for you, because genuinely

33:46

to get these two hemispheres

33:49

talking to each other and understanding

33:52

yourself better. You need

33:54

to get outta your own way, and

33:56

hypnosis, meditation, mindfulness,

33:59

whatever we want to call it, is genuinely

34:02

the best way to do that. Like you say,

34:04

you can get into

34:07

the right frame of mind first. Then

34:09

journal and write or talk to

34:11

somebody in the right circumstances. But

34:14

even then, you've gotta get into the right mind

34:16

first. If your foundations

34:19

are really good at

34:22

relaxing your conscious thoughts so

34:24

that things slow down just

34:27

a little bit. Just softening.

34:30

The work that you can do there is phenomenal

34:32

it really is

34:34

I would say also, that's using

34:36

the specific technique of

34:39

taking a bit of time to do something.

34:42

If you can also encourage

34:44

that relationship between the two sides

34:48

so that If the right brain suddenly pops

34:51

up and says, Hey, hang on.

34:54

That you've got a way of

34:56

that happening and being able to

34:58

listen to it. So with

35:01

the relationship, just the same as the relationship

35:03

between two people, if one

35:06

is dominating and the other one says

35:08

Hey, hang on, it could be just completely ignored.

35:11

Yeah

35:11

within the self to allow, the

35:14

right brain to be able to interrupt

35:17

the left It's usually that way. round

35:19

could be the other That's

35:21

the, going back to the title of the book, In

35:24

the Western Society left Brain

35:26

Dominates

35:27

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, we

35:29

do. We do. Well,

35:32

we better wrap up Like we say,

35:35

interesting and complicated topic and if you want to hear

35:37

more, just go and find it. There's some

35:39

links in the show notes to who exactly

35:41

we're talking about. 'cause not everybody's gonna

35:43

type in Iain Mcgilchrist. His, his

35:45

name is spelled a bit strangely, although maybe

35:47

Maybe that is how you're supposed to spell Ian. Maybe

35:50

that's the best way of spelling

35:52

Scottish Scottish

35:54

is it I suppose it is isn't it Yeah,

35:56

I suppose it

35:57

he lives on the is of Sky or somewhere like

36:00

that

36:01

Who wouldn't. It's gorgeous. I

36:03

know we've got a couple of listeners on the eye of the sky 'cause they've

36:05

messaged in before and, and it's and

36:07

Sometimes there's been some pictures It's

36:10

gorgeous

36:11

Absolutely

36:11

and he, he is, just

36:14

to say, he's a lovely, lovely chap. I went

36:16

on his seminar couple of years ago.

36:18

He is a typical,

36:21

rather bumbling professor

36:24

type. As in his

36:26

glasses was missing one of the bits,

36:28

I dunno what you call them, the bits that go from the glass

36:30

over your ear. It was missing one

36:32

of those. But yeah

36:35

he's he's he's delightful

36:38

Well go and find out more all about the things

36:40

that he's promoting. You will definitely

36:42

go down a rabbit hole and hopefully

36:45

come out the other side with a lot more

36:48

to know about yourself, so let's

36:51

disappear for another week. Next week

36:53

we have a guest and

36:56

I'm looking down my list to see who it

36:58

is. Oh, it's Shaun. Shaun

37:00

Brookhouse What's he gonna talk about? Fiona,

37:02

as he said

37:04

No he hasn't said

37:05

oh we'll just ramble won't we more

37:08

than likely

37:10

I we we try and pin him down We'll

37:12

try and pin him down

37:14

We've known Shaun for, well,

37:16

I've known Shaun for 20 years, pretty

37:18

much, almost as long as uh I've

37:20

known you Fiona But you were working with him for

37:23

a few years before I met him

37:25

I think I met him in 2000.

37:28

It might have been 1999 But

37:30

yeah, I mean, we've we've worked together ridiculously

37:34

I've got one of your, one of your

37:36

Yeah.

37:37

back there that the two of you wrote together

37:39

Yeah. We do so much together these

37:41

days, but we for for years

37:43

and years we worked hand in glove

37:45

And it's because of Shaun, that the YouTube

37:47

channel that we've got is part of what's

37:50

called the Brookhouse Hypnotherapy group

37:52

'cause there's a few of us, and between you

37:54

and Shaun, you set up a little. A little,

37:56

little organization to get lots, lots

37:58

of therapists together, sharing information,

38:01

sharing ideas, becoming friends, working

38:03

together. And we've done a lot of training and so

38:05

on together over the years. We're all great friends.

38:07

And you know, Shaun is a big, big, big,

38:09

big part of that. He really is. I look forward

38:12

to hearing what he's gonna be talking about,

38:14

it'll be lovely

38:15

we will be back next week Have a super duper

38:17

week everybody speak to you then

38:20

Bye