0:03

Zane Lowe, Apple Music. It's another

0:05

conversation right here on the Interview Series. My

0:08

name is Zane Lowe and thank you very much for joining

0:10

us. This time we're in conversation with Tim McGraw,

0:13

not only one of country music's biggest superstars

0:15

and now we can talk about it because thankfully the writer's strike

0:17

is over. Congratulations to all who successfully achieved

0:20

that. He's also like

0:22

low key one of the great actors and

0:24

scene stealers of everything he's

0:27

ever been in. It's very difficult

0:29

to make that transition I think from

0:31

being so recognizable as a musical performer

0:35

into

0:35

playing characters on the screen which have

0:37

to be believable. Man, he really

0:39

draws you in and he's fully committed

0:42

to every part he's ever been in to the point where I always

0:44

have to check the credits like is that really Tim McGraw? He's

0:47

just released his 16th studio album Standing

0:49

Room only created during the pandemic,

0:51

like much of the music being released right now at this

0:53

point. It explores the resiliency

0:56

of just being human and

0:58

the spirit required to listen,

1:01

learn, forgive, move forward and

1:03

live within the principle of love.

1:05

We talk about all of this including

1:08

the important relationships in his life, yes, including

1:10

his wife Faith Hill, also an incredible artist

1:13

and actor. And there's some interesting stories in there as well

1:15

including one particularly nerve-wracking, one involving

1:17

spear fishing sharks in the Bahamas. If that sounds

1:19

good to you, then here it is. Myself and Tim McGraw

1:21

in conversation on the Interview Series.

1:25

You're good, you. Thank you, man.

1:27

You're good, you. You are too. I

1:29

like the sound effects. I got to use those. No,

1:31

you don't get those. Come on, I'm going to steal them. No,

1:33

no, doesn't matter. You can have the songs, I'll have the sound effect. You win. Oh,

1:36

no. What a journey,

1:37

what a life. So much incredible music you've recorded. The

1:40

gift it's given you, it's given all of us. It's put you

1:42

on this pathway of life only you could experience and enjoy

1:44

and make the most of and you've certainly done that. Thank

1:47

you. Finding the spirit

1:49

and the inspiration to make a new album as

1:52

you move through life. And life gets

1:55

confusing. We search for simplicity,

1:57

but it's not always at our fingertips the order we get.

1:59

sort of clear a pathway

2:02

to be able to find the purity

2:05

of the voice that made you want to write songs

2:07

in the first place. Get harder or

2:09

easier as you get older? You know I'm

2:13

always searching to get better you know so

2:15

I don't know that it's harder or easier

2:17

that's a difficult

2:20

sort of navigation for me. There

2:22

are times when it feels difficult and

2:25

there are times where it feels easy. But

2:29

to me it's always about finding the song whether I'm

2:31

writing the song or listening to songs coming

2:33

from other songwriters who are friends of mine it's just

2:35

about finding a song that has some

2:38

meaning to it and some heart and some soul to it and

2:41

you know

2:41

without the song you have nothing and I always say

2:44

that everything good in my life has come from country

2:46

music and it's given me everything

2:48

in my life and I

2:51

sort of worship at the altar of songs.

2:54

Ah that's one of my favorite phrases I've used that

2:56

as long as I've been talking about music. Someone

2:59

said that to me very early on in my journey that the

3:01

mission is to worship at the altar of the song and

3:03

I've always referred to that it's been a North Star for

3:05

me. That's true it's on it's without

3:08

that you don't have anything it's everything and when

3:10

we were recording this time we started

3:12

recording this album during the pandemic because

3:14

I had released my last album here on earth

3:17

and it came out smack dab in the middle of the pandemic.

3:19

We spoke for the first time on a video conference. It

3:21

was one of my favorite chats of the year. Thank you

3:23

and and I didn't you know we didn't

3:26

get a chance to really go out and play any of that music

3:28

like we wanted to because we couldn't

3:30

tour. So I started working on

3:32

the album during that you know and looking at the

3:34

world as the world was at that time

3:37

and what we were all going through. So

3:39

I was searching for songs. My process

3:41

is always I have these ideas of what I want to say

3:43

and the kinds of songs I want to say and sonically what

3:46

I want the record to sound like. Is that a feeling?

3:47

Is it a phrase? Is it something you've seen

3:49

that you can't shake from your cerebral cortex

3:52

or is it something deep down you can't explain? It's all it's all

3:55

of it and it's also

3:56

the world paying attention to the world and what's going

3:59

on around you and and life

4:01

in general. I think

4:03

artists

4:04

have a keen sense, not me, I'm saying artists

4:06

in general, have sort of a keen sense of what the

4:08

world feels like to them and how they interpret

4:10

the world and then how they translate

4:12

what's going on from the world

4:15

and how it translates through them. And

4:17

I was trying to find songs

4:19

that

4:20

were inspiring

4:21

and songs that were life-affirming. It's

4:23

a very inspiring album. Thank you, and songs

4:25

that were about,

4:27

you know,

4:28

we all make mistakes and we're gonna make mistakes and

4:31

we're gonna do bad stuff. And all

4:33

you can do is try to get up the next day and be the best you can

4:35

be that day and know you're gonna screw

4:37

up again later down the road and you gotta

4:39

figure out how to put that behind you. And I'm

4:42

lucky because music

4:44

is cathartic and for me,

4:46

it's my therapy.

4:48

So to be able to go in the studio and

4:50

have these great songs

4:52

and sort of work out your emotional

4:54

baggage through these songs is

4:57

a blessing. You know, you've been through a lot

4:59

in your life and you live your life through

5:01

the principle of forgiveness. And I wanna talk about that in

5:04

a minute because I think it's fascinating and inspiring that

5:06

you've been able to come to terms with that term in

5:08

its truest sense, given what you've been through, which

5:10

required a lot of forgiveness. Have you actually

5:12

turned to therapy in your life to help you process

5:15

things or has it literally just been the arts? Well,

5:17

it's been the arts mostly. I mean, I've tried

5:19

therapy a few times, not very good at it.

5:23

You don't get much, Tim. It

5:25

sounds like you're a C-minus therapy student.

5:27

I am a C-minus therapy

5:28

student for sure. Maybe a D, maybe

5:31

a D. Probably the only D

5:33

ever made in my life is in therapy. You have

5:35

a very judgmental therapist, by the way. You

5:37

may just need to seek a different therapist. I know, right?

5:40

I mean, forgiveness is easy for someone else. It's hard

5:42

to give yourself. Well, Tim, you really were today.

5:45

It takes my fucking

5:47

time. I

5:50

did get that a few times. But,

5:53

you know, it

5:55

is a through line on this album. It's been a through line in

5:57

your life. It's right there in the timeline

5:59

of your life. life, what

6:01

you've been through on a personal level, right

6:03

down to the most core relationship that allows

6:05

you to establish a foundation of trust. That

6:08

with the parents that bring you into this

6:11

life, you kept the last name, you

6:13

found forgiveness, you built and maintained

6:17

a modern relationship with your father

6:19

through it all.

6:21

Not to get too deep too early, but your life fascinates

6:23

me, Tim, and I'm going to make the most of the hour that we have.

6:26

How did you...are

6:27

you any closer to understanding what

6:30

the voice sounded like in you that allowed you to best

6:32

process forgiveness and begin that journey because

6:34

a lot of people can't? Well,

6:37

it's pretty simple actually.

6:39

The circumstances I grew up in, and thank

6:43

God for my mom, who was a solid rock, but

6:46

she went through a couple of bad marriages and relationships

6:50

and it wasn't the best environment

6:52

to grow up in.

6:54

And for me,

6:55

when I found out who my father was, because

6:58

I didn't...I thought my first stepdad

7:00

was my father and I found my birth certificate and

7:03

found all that out, to me a light bulb

7:05

sort of went off in my head

7:07

that if he can do that,

7:10

if that's in my blood, because

7:12

he was a professional athlete, very successful, if

7:14

that's in my blood, then I can do something with my

7:17

life. And so that's

7:19

where the forgiveness for me came is

7:21

it was inspiring to me to know that I

7:24

had something in me that I didn't know I had. And

7:27

I'm not sure had I not found that out that

7:29

I would have

7:30

been able to have the

7:31

courage and the confidence to

7:33

pursue this career and try something. Do

7:37

you think looking back on that moment,

7:39

that really essential moment in

7:41

the human experience where forgiveness

7:44

occurs and a new day begins,

7:47

which requires both sides to understand their

7:49

role in this, that you were able

7:51

to teach your father what it was to be forgiven

7:53

and therefore allow him to let go of some

7:55

of the...because really when you don't feel like you can

7:58

be forgiven, it's because I think you feel...

7:59

like you shouldn't forgive yourself.

8:02

Well, that's what I was

8:04

saying a little earlier. I think we were

8:06

talking over each other a little bit, but the

8:09

easy part is to forgive someone else. The hardest

8:11

part is to forgive yourself. And when

8:13

you look in the mirror, all

8:15

you see is the worst. And I've discovered

8:18

that having kids, till you

8:20

catch yourself putting your thumb on your kids

8:22

sometimes and trying to squeeze stuff out

8:24

of them. And I came to the

8:26

realization, I

8:27

guess on my daughters or teenagers, when

8:29

I would always say, oh don't do that or

8:32

don't do this.

8:33

What I'm really doing

8:34

is I'm seeing the things I don't like about myself

8:38

show up in them.

8:39

And so you're trying to squeeze yourself out of them

8:41

because you don't want them to be like you. I know I've

8:44

dropped a parental bond lately, but...

8:45

And the

8:47

father of two teenage boys, let me tell you. It

8:50

is their job to reject you. Yeah, well that's

8:53

what they do. But they come back around. But

8:55

they have to because to form an identity that

8:57

is uniquely their own, they have to reject

9:00

a thing that they love the most. Absolutely. And as

9:02

parents, we tend to forget you.

9:04

You think that

9:05

we made them, so they're just like us. But

9:08

they're 90% their own person. 100%. You know, you sound so

9:14

beautifully, not to begin at the end, but in letter

9:16

from heaven. You talk, you touch on

9:18

being a parent, your own experience through the lens

9:20

of being a child and seeing the flaws

9:22

of your own parents, particularly your father and

9:25

then the strength that your mother had, even

9:27

to leave you a letter. I'm not sure how true

9:29

to form this actual narrative in the song

9:32

is and if you did find a letter after the song. Well, I

9:34

didn't write that, but

9:35

it touched me. It touched you in a beautiful

9:37

way. I felt it deeply. Laurie

9:40

McKenna wrote that song. It's incredible. Who's one

9:42

of the most incredible songwriters, poets in the world.

9:44

It's so unbelievable that someone can tap into something

9:46

that's so true to your life. Did she write that for you? Yeah,

9:49

I think so. Yeah, she's got a connection

9:53

with me about songs and

9:55

about thoughts and about life that we

9:57

really connect on all sorts of levels. wrote,

10:00

there's a song on the album called

10:03

Nashville California LA Tennessee.

10:05

I love that. That we wrote together

10:07

with my acoustic player who's been with

10:09

me for 31 years. So the three

10:12

of us wrote that song and it came out

10:14

of a story, I

10:16

guess 2018, I

10:20

have a like 19 year old Cadillac

10:22

Escalade that I can't get rid of because

10:25

it's got so many memories in it. Calling

10:27

kids to football games and basketball

10:29

games and baseball games, all that stuff and

10:32

a car full of cheerleaders and all kinds

10:34

of things. It's like I can't bear

10:36

to get rid of it. Anyway, I ripped all the seats out of the back

10:39

and packed all of my oldest daughter's stuff in

10:41

and we did a road trip to move her out here to LA.

10:44

And so we spent about four days driving

10:47

out and staying at cool places and hanging out

10:49

and doing carpool karaoke and

10:51

we had a great time. What were you singing?

10:53

I think she loves show

10:56

tunes a lot but we did a,

10:59

I think we did one thing, I don't think it was on, she

11:01

posted it on Instagram or something but it was

11:04

her and I singing a Barbra

11:07

Streisand and Barry Gibb song

11:09

together. Yeah, it was pretty cool and

11:11

she's a great singer. So we got all

11:13

the way out to LA. We drove, we had a great time, we

11:16

got here and it was late at night

11:17

and I started unloading the van moving all of her stuff

11:20

in

11:21

and she was by that time ready to get rid of me.

11:23

She's free, she's in LA,

11:25

she wanted me to go and I'm lingering,

11:28

you know, just trying to unpack boxes and she said, dad

11:30

I got it, dad I got it. I'm like alright, so

11:32

I'm standing around not wanting to leave

11:34

and then I start doing, dad you need to go.

11:37

And so I gave her a big hug and then of course

11:39

I fell apart. And when he gave her the hug and I went to

11:41

the hotel room and cried myself to sleep

11:44

and woke up the next morning got in the car and deadheaded

11:46

it back home. And on the way home I called

11:49

Bob, my guitar player and

11:51

he's got growing kids and grandkids now and we

11:54

were talking about life and the changes in life and

11:56

when your kids are growing up and they're moving out and all

11:58

the emotions that you go through. So

12:00

that song was born out of that conversation

12:02

and we were both crying on the phone and talking

12:05

about it. It's heavy. I mean I started that process

12:07

at the beginning of the year myself. I was 17 year old, very

12:09

soon we'd be going to college and doing what he wants to go do. And

12:12

you know, if you know me and you get

12:14

to know me over time term, I tend to try to get ahead

12:16

of change. And I get told very quickly that

12:18

you can't. You're always one step behind. You're always

12:20

behind. Right. So you know, my therapist

12:22

was like, man, you need to invest in this change because the

12:24

only way is going to get you through. But it's tough. What was

12:26

that drive back like? It was lonely.

12:29

It was lonely. I mean, I enjoyed it because it

12:32

was a good time to think and to process.

12:35

It gave me time to do that before I got home so I

12:37

wouldn't fall apart in front of my wife because I knew she

12:39

was, you know, it's always harder on mom. Because

12:42

they're the ones that really do all the work. Oh look, we

12:44

are the supporting character at the start

12:47

and we are the supporting character at the change. Absolutely.

12:49

And we're the supporting character at various important points in life.

12:52

Absolutely. We're there to just do what they

12:54

tell us to do and try to be the best, you know,

12:56

rock that we can be when we're needed. Yeah. It's

12:58

amazing to me that you can

12:59

hear these songs and make them feel like

13:02

your own. And that's the mark of a great performer,

13:04

someone who emotes through their art that

13:06

doesn't even translate.

13:09

You absorb and you make it your own.

13:11

I think about a song like Standing Room Only. Your

13:13

voice sounds so

13:15

like young. Oh well,

13:18

thank you. No, but

13:20

let me frame that because that

13:22

on the surface, that could feel like I'm trying

13:24

to.

13:24

Your voice has history to it. You've

13:27

earned that history. You've sung these songs.

13:29

You've made them your own. They belong to

13:31

you and your voice. But this sounds

13:34

like almost the first song you ever sang. And

13:36

I listened to it a song like The Ideas of

13:38

It. I want a life. I want this.

13:40

I want to project what my life will be.

13:43

And I actually wonder whether it was conscious that you

13:45

even thought like, you know what, if I'm going to take myself

13:47

back to the beginning of something that's unpromised

13:50

to me and unfulfilled with the promise

13:52

of what can occur, can I find

13:54

the purity in my voice to deliver this in a way

13:56

that doesn't sound like me having lived the life?

13:59

Yeah, I mean, that's.

13:59

That's the process you go through. When

14:03

I record, I try to just

14:05

get behind the microphone and step into the song.

14:08

I try to make every song

14:10

sort of a cinematic experience, these

14:13

little movies.

14:15

I put myself in the movie, and

14:18

therefore I'm telling you the story, but if you're

14:20

doing it right,

14:22

you allow other people to put themselves in the

14:24

movie.

14:24

They can find the lead character,

14:26

and they can be the lead character and find a part of their life

14:29

that matches up with the song, and they can walk through

14:31

that scene themselves. And if you can

14:33

do that, then you've really got something special. I

14:36

love being in the studio and just

14:40

lights off, just get

14:42

lost in the song, and just try not

14:45

to sing the song, try to let the song sing

14:47

you. Yeah, I mean that's why when

14:49

we hear you sing these songs, they belong to us

14:51

immediately because you narrate for

14:53

us, and they become attached. It's the power of great

14:56

performance. Does it surprise

14:58

you sometimes when you're reading the lyrics or you're processing

15:01

what you're going to sing? Again, how

15:04

it just seems to be so dialed into your life. I

15:06

think of a lyric, like, I want to take my grudges

15:08

and my old regrets and let them go. It's

15:10

not like you haven't been on the receiving end of some bullsh**. You're

15:14

probably one of the first, if not the only, artists

15:16

who seem to have extricated himself from a record deal.

15:20

The only one from that particular deal ever. Legally,

15:23

legally. Yeah. That was probably

15:25

what I know it was. Not

15:28

personally. Well, personally as well. It was

15:30

one of the toughest parts of times of my life, going

15:32

through that ordeal. What was the feeling at the time? Can

15:34

you remember? The feeling was, I don't know

15:36

that I can regain my career after this because

15:39

it tried to get squashed

15:41

out. That to me is almost a realization,

15:43

but the feeling surely exists

15:46

more in a sense of hurt and just mistrust

15:48

and a feeling of like, how could I be treated

15:51

this way? That had gone on for a

15:53

while and I don't want to get too

15:56

personal and attack anybody because what's done

15:58

is done and look, I had a lot of success

16:00

there and I wouldn't be

16:02

at this point in my career without having

16:05

that. With that being said, it was

16:08

a

16:08

three, four year process

16:11

to the point where I had managers

16:13

and everybody telling me let's just stay here. I've been

16:16

there. I've been in that situation where someone who's on

16:18

my team has gone dude at this point I think it's just better

16:20

if you just cut your losses and get on with the job. Right,

16:23

it's not gonna be worth it. And I'll tell you what I said

16:25

and I'm sure you'll be able to elaborate and make it far

16:27

more in line with the story

16:29

but I said I can't go back.

16:32

No, I couldn't. It's done. Like the

16:35

only way forward is through. Yeah, I knew that

16:37

if I would have stayed and not tried

16:39

to move forward with my career, no matter what

16:42

happened to my career I

16:44

wouldn't

16:45

progress any further as an artist.

16:47

And my career either was gonna

16:50

grow or be stagnant or

16:52

be non-existent. But it certainly wasn't gonna live it curbed.

16:54

But it wasn't gonna live it curbed and I wasn't gonna

16:56

be as good as I thought I could be. And it really it

16:59

was one of those moments in my life when I really realized

17:02

something about the human experience

17:04

that I couldn't understand. Like I

17:06

couldn't piece it together which was how

17:08

could somebody I knew so well assume

17:12

something that was so out of

17:14

my concept of reality that I was just

17:16

gonna show up to work on Monday like it's all good.

17:18

Yeah. I was like wow sometimes we really

17:21

don't understand each other as a species.

17:23

No, I mean you know you can never ever

17:25

get into someone else's head. I mean you just can't. I

17:28

mean and no matter how well you know someone.

17:30

You just your best friend your wife. Okay,

17:33

marriage will teach you that. You just

17:35

can't get into somebody's head and you can't know

17:37

that everything all the thought processes that everyone's

17:39

going through and the things that they're dealing

17:41

with. And yeah,

17:45

you just have to move forward. You just have to keep

17:47

moving forward and try to be better and try to do

17:49

better and and try to find your

17:51

path man. I mean if you can't

17:53

find your way if you can't find

17:55

your way nothing's gonna get accomplished.

17:58

You know I was thinking it back to the beginning.

17:59

because we've never had a conversation face to face

18:02

like this and I always relish the opportunity

18:04

to talk to someone who's had You know a

18:07

near 30 year career and I've

18:09

never had a chance to really kick it with you You know,

18:11

it's like awesome. Like I'm just gonna dive into this

18:14

I love it's like I'm the only person in the room There's a cake

18:16

and I'm like I'll start on any angle Absolutely

18:19

And I think back to your self-titled debut album

18:21

in the fact that it's the only one that Hasn't

18:23

been successful at the time. Yeah, we like

18:25

to say went would It went what? What

18:29

is the least useful You

18:37

Know you got it down. We're down

18:39

with it Now you understand the Kiwi

18:41

sense of humor if you kick yourself, I'll jump I'll jump

18:43

right in there I love it. It's all one good one And

18:46

I think about what that must have felt like not that it wasn't

18:48

successful at the beginning because I knew you were in It for

18:50

the work, but that it was your name. Yeah.

18:53

Yeah, you know, it was

18:55

I Really the first time I'd ever been in

18:58

a student or a proper studio to really

19:00

record anything and I didn't know what I was Doing

19:02

I had you know, some great producers around

19:04

me James trial Byron Gallimore I

19:07

was just learning how to find so I still think there

19:09

were great songs on that album But I was still you

19:12

know Probably getting songs from the B

19:14

drawer from publishers and stuff and but

19:16

I had enough success I had one top 40 off of

19:18

that record enough to work. So I was out playing

19:21

club bigger clubs and better gigs

19:24

And then it so it didn't do very well. So the label

19:26

sort of just forgot about me And

19:29

so I started collecting songs for my next

19:31

album Although I don't think they were gonna

19:33

give me a next album But I started collecting

19:35

all these songs and I didn't play the songs for

19:38

the label I didn't play the songs for my

19:40

management I didn't tell anybody and I just

19:42

called my producer and told him to book a studio

19:45

and didn't tell the label about it This is exactly

19:47

what I was going trying to get to it. I'm glad

19:49

you're going there Please continue the idea of what

19:51

changed for you from that not connecting

19:53

to getting to the album that did and because it

19:55

was clearly You that took control

19:57

of that scenario. Well, that's what happened

19:59

I was scared to death in the studio the first time,

20:02

scared to speak up. You know, I

20:04

had Indian Outlaw for the first album, but they

20:06

wouldn't let me record it. And

20:09

I'd been playing it in clubs. We were having to play it two or three

20:11

times a night in clubs because people wanted to hear it. So

20:14

you knew it was connecting. I knew it was connecting. And so I

20:16

took all these songs and went in the studio and

20:19

I'm a

20:20

pretty reserved guy most of the time and

20:22

not super talkative, but I went in

20:24

and it took all the courage I had to stand up in front

20:27

of all these fantastic musicians and

20:29

these seasoned producers

20:31

and say, we're cutting this album. The

20:33

label doesn't know we're making this record

20:35

and I'm going to do it my way.

20:37

I'm going to cut the songs I want to cut and we're going

20:39

to cut them the way I want to cut them.

20:41

And

20:41

we're going to seek or swim.

20:43

And that was not a moment too soon to happen. And

20:45

that was the one that kicked the world open

20:48

for me. So funny, you know, it's, um, then

20:50

you get inside the real mindset of,

20:53

and again, great people in the music industry who have helped

20:55

to facilitate and create and to support visions

20:57

of artists for many, many decades. And

20:59

those are the great people in the music business that support

21:01

the vision of the artist. The other

21:03

ones who basically ultimately it comes through

21:06

fear. Like if I, if I don't have some control

21:08

over this, then what, what is my job? What's my job?

21:10

Exactly. Or, or, um, I

21:13

really don't

21:13

know if

21:14

it's good or not. Yeah. And

21:17

then when you have those people that just don't know, they will,

21:20

I don't know what do you think kind of thing. Yeah. And

21:22

then you have to have somebody else's opinions and they tell you if they like it or not.

21:26

If somebody says they like it, then they like it. And

21:28

I've done better. I should probably

21:31

shouldn't say this, but I've done things like, I've

21:33

done things like, you'll

21:35

play a mix for, for somebody, uh,

21:38

like

21:39

an executive or something. You'll play a mix and

21:41

they'll go, you know, this really

21:43

sounds great, but I think if you tweaked it right here

21:46

and you tweaked it right there and you get a

21:48

few little tweaks on the mix, it would be, it'd

21:50

be really good. And I'd go, okay. I'd

21:53

go away and two or three days later I come

21:55

back with the same mix and say,

21:57

we tweaked it. your

22:00

suggestions and I'll play it and they'll go, hot

22:02

damn, that's exactly what it needed. Now

22:04

it sounds great. You're such a troll. You're

22:07

such a troll. With the placebo effect on a record executive.

22:10

Priceless. I love it. I

22:13

mean, those are the moments I think that it's as

22:15

playful as they are and as much as we can laugh

22:17

because we all get suck it in. I mean,

22:19

I'm sure our kids have totally played that gag

22:22

on us. Absolutely. I've

22:24

been snowed so many times. So many times, right?

22:26

But at the end of the day, what they really do if you want to

22:28

sort of give them some gravity is they just

22:31

serve to reinforce

22:35

confidence in your own judgment. But

22:40

you also need somebody to tell you when something sucks if

22:42

you really trust their opinion. So who is that

22:44

for you? Oh gosh, well my wife. Yeah, so how

22:46

brutal is she? She's pretty brutal. But

22:48

she's honest. Well, she's one

22:51

of, to me, I think she's one of the greatest artists of all

22:53

time, one of the greatest singers of all time. And

22:58

we're different types of artists.

23:01

We like different kinds of music. I

23:03

mean, we like a lot of the same stuff, but we like different kinds of music.

23:06

And I'm always playing her the songs that

23:08

I want to record and playing her mixes as I

23:10

go along. And there's times we don't agree. There's times

23:12

where she goes, I don't like to play that sound. And I will.

23:15

I do. And that's where it's going to stay. I

23:17

love it. And the same thing when she's making recorders. Like,

23:19

I think this should be your thing. She goes, no, I don't like that

23:21

song. This is going to be the single. All right. She's

23:25

usually right. She's right about her stuff, and I'm usually right

23:27

about my stuff. But most of the time we

23:29

agree. It's really beautiful. I mean, obviously,

23:31

congratulations for coming up on what, 26, 27 years of marriage?

23:34

Coming up on 27. Yeah. Me

23:36

and my wife are 24 this year. All right. Congratulations.

23:39

Thank you. And to you. It's like 92

23:41

in showbiz years. It really is. But I think it's

23:44

one of those really amazing and inspirational stories

23:46

because you've been able to build such a strong

23:48

foundation and family

23:50

foundation and built around that. And unapologetically

23:53

and unashamedly stood by

23:54

that. It's not like, you know, we don't talk

23:56

about this. Like, no, I'm proud of my family. This is what we have.

23:58

Absolutely.

23:59

to maintain your own identity. And

24:02

it's a great Jack White song. I love Jack White. JONATHAN

24:04

DORSEY Genius. It's a great Jack White and White

24:06

Stripe song, South Domingue, which is, I'm Slowly

24:08

Turning Into You, which is one of my favorite

24:10

songs, which is the idea of that I'm absorbing

24:13

your traits to the degree that perhaps I'm losing a little bit of

24:15

my own identity in the process. Is that a good thing? And

24:17

you two seem to have been able to maintain

24:19

your identity, which in the artistic

24:22

field is very unique. Has

24:24

it helped that you've had your career simultaneously

24:27

going on with family that allows you to continue

24:29

to stand your ground, even when someone

24:31

says, I'm not sure about that song, as an example? Well,

24:33

yeah, because we have a confidence

24:36

in our life. We have a confidence in our foundation.

24:39

And all of this could go away. And

24:41

we're perfectly happy with the five of us. I

24:44

mean, we are. We are a really tight

24:46

family. I mean, we have my youngest

24:48

daughter, she's 21. And when she

24:50

was in high school, she started a family text

24:53

that we would all say goodnight to each other. Now

24:55

it's turned into 50, 60 texts

24:58

a day

24:58

from all five of us sending

25:00

videos and saying, I love you. I got

25:03

one right here. Yeah. And it's just- What's yours called?

25:05

Do you have a name for yours? Just a spam. As

25:08

it's called, The Rulers. The Rulers. We

25:12

rule. I was thinking like

25:14

the old ruler of the nuns and

25:16

the Catholic school slapping your hand. There's

25:19

nothing punishment about it, Tim. It's more

25:21

just like, you rule, no, you rule. You

25:23

rule, no, you rule. Right on. There's

25:26

nothing like it. I mean, that's your foundation. And that'll,

25:28

when you have a great foundation, a

25:31

family foundation, that allows you to soar.

25:33

I mean, it allows you all kinds of freedom.

25:36

And I think Faith and I, the

25:38

lucky thing for us, when we decided to get married,

25:40

we knew we wanted a family and we knew we wanted our family

25:42

to come first. And we were 29 when we got married.

25:44

And not just that, both of you were like, you

25:47

were having the kind of success early on in life

25:49

that people only focus

25:51

on that because they're terrified of losing

25:54

you to diversify your time into

25:56

something as important as a union at that

25:59

moment

25:59

careers. I

26:01

can imagine there must have been a little bit of an eyebrow

26:04

that went up within certain teams of like, you sure you want

26:06

to do that? Tell them you're busy. Yeah, I think it was her

26:08

team more than mine that was like, I don't know if you

26:10

ought to be doing this, especially with me,

26:12

because I was pretty wild at the time. But

26:15

what it did, and that's what

26:17

I was getting to, is we

26:19

were both successful. And so

26:22

when we got married and decided to have a family,

26:25

we had had enough success at that time that

26:27

we could pick and choose

26:29

when we wanted to work and how we wanted to work. So

26:32

we built our whole schedules around our family

26:35

life. And our kids traveled with

26:37

us until school started. When the school started, we

26:40

didn't work and let when

26:42

school was going on, for the most part, every now and then there was something

26:44

that came along. For the most part, we didn't work on schools. I

26:46

coached softball, I coached basketball. We

26:48

did tailgate parties for the cheerleaders at all the football

26:51

games. I mean, we were living. Memories you

26:53

just could never try. We lived our life just like everybody

26:55

else. I mean, we were, you know, Mr.

26:58

and Mrs. McGraw, everything, when showing up. You

27:00

know, we had 15 teenage girls

27:02

at our house all the time. We're cooking for them,

27:04

and they're singing and playing music and

27:06

hanging out by the pool. And it's just, we

27:09

just had, we've had a wonderful foundation, a

27:11

wonderful life. And that's given

27:14

us, I think it gave us confidence

27:16

to know that we're,

27:18

if we're strong enough to do this,

27:20

then we're strong enough to do anything. You

27:22

know, what else it does is it breaks the spell

27:25

that the psychology of being in the

27:27

arts, having an artistic spirit that requires

27:30

some form of validation

27:32

in order to feel like you're being heard.

27:34

It creates this bell,

27:37

I think, that we all fall into, which

27:39

is if I don't feed the beast,

27:43

I'm going to lose the chance to

27:45

do what I love. I can imagine

27:47

that when you and faith made the decision together,

27:49

which is much stronger, to walk

27:51

away and define the flow,

27:54

the way you wanted it to be, that

27:56

you broke that spell. Yeah, I

27:58

mean, it did. And

28:00

And as a result of it, it made

28:02

things better.

28:03

Both of our careers even exploded

28:05

more after we got married. Because you let

28:07

go of it. Because we let go of it and we just sort of

28:10

found happiness and relaxed a little bit about what

28:12

we were doing and found some confidence in what we were doing. And

28:15

as you were saying earlier, being an artist

28:17

is sort of a dichotomy because on one hand you're

28:20

totally insecure and you totally

28:22

think you're going to fail every time you do something. And

28:24

on the other hand,

28:25

your goal is to be the biggest artist ever in the world.

28:28

So you're fighting that battle within yourself the

28:30

whole time. And I don't think one works without

28:32

the other.

28:33

And it pushes you and it drives you.

28:36

And then to have another person

28:39

just like that, that's your partner.

28:42

You have something really that

28:45

you could talk about and explain to each other that

28:47

doesn't require an explanation. We get it. We understand

28:49

it. So when you're having days when you're not

28:52

feeling confident, then she's the one that makes me

28:54

feel confident. And having days when she's not feeling confident,

28:56

then I make her feel confident. And it's just

28:59

worked for us. And then

29:02

getting a tour together, sing

29:04

together, act together. I mean, just do the stuff

29:07

that we get to do together. I

29:11

guarantee you,

29:13

had I not gotten married to Faith

29:15

at 29 years old, A, I

29:18

probably would have ran my career into the ground.

29:21

And B, I

29:22

would have died or ran my career into

29:24

the ground one or the other. And it wouldn't have

29:26

ever been where it's at now.

29:28

How long did Faith put up with the wild years before

29:31

you realized that ultimately there was some maturity

29:33

that had to occur in order for the relationship to grow?

29:36

Well, I don't know if the maturity's occurred yet. But

29:40

she put up with it for a while because it was pretty sneaky

29:43

about it for a while. But

29:45

it was

29:46

just overdoing stuff. Overdoing

29:49

stuff. And then I think when the kids

29:51

got old enough that they could

29:53

notice things is when she finally said,

29:55

you

29:56

got to figure this out. One of my favorite songs on the

29:58

record is, Hey Whiskey. I

30:00

love the whole idea of having a conversation

30:02

with something that's been a friend and a father. It

30:05

doesn't have a personality, but man, it sure puts it

30:07

in you. Yeah, it does. Art takes it away from

30:09

you, one or the other. It does both. Yeah.

30:12

Yeah, that song was very personal. I loved the song right off the bat. A

30:14

couple of my friends are two of the writers on it, the Warren

30:16

Brothers are good friends of mine. And when

30:18

they sent the song right away, I knew I wanted to cut it. And

30:22

it was personal in a lot of ways. The

30:25

cool thing about that track was we

30:28

cut it, I guess I

30:30

want to say, 10 o'clock at night,

30:32

11 o'clock at night. It was on the last song on one of the sessions

30:34

we were doing, which I still love going to the studio with the

30:36

band. I do it the old way with the full band. Why

30:39

would you not? And you're in there for like three weeks. Everyone's

30:41

warmed up. All day. Everything's the

30:43

hum of every instrument in the hall. All the time.

30:46

It's so good. It's so good. So good.

30:49

And the energy's there. I had my microphone right

30:51

in the control room

30:54

with my producer, you know, that I could produce with

30:56

Byron. And so I can talk to him

30:58

and I can sing. But that track,

31:00

I knew the song

31:02

because I'd had it for a while. And

31:05

I said, let's do the song. My voice was shredded. I

31:07

was hoarse. I didn't think I could sing. And

31:09

anybody knows anything about recording, most of

31:11

the time when you're doing tracking vocals,

31:14

you're just getting the track down. You're not really paying attention

31:16

to your vocal that much, you know, because you go

31:18

back in and sing later. Yeah. Most

31:21

of the time. Yeah. But I knew all

31:23

these songs so well. So most of these songs came from tracking

31:25

vocals. Yeah. Yeah.

31:28

Don't worry. And Whiskey was shredded voice.

31:31

The very first run through on the song, I

31:33

sang it. And we did a couple more run throughs

31:36

to try to get the track right. And then I went

31:38

back in to try to re-sing the song

31:40

and I couldn't, I could sing it better, but

31:43

I couldn't sell it better. But again, it's there.

31:46

The entire track, the entire vocal is the very first

31:49

run through of that night when we have always gone. It's

31:51

that classic thing that we're getting to grips with here in this conversation,

31:53

which is that, you know, the real Tim

31:56

McGraw required to find

31:58

the truth inside the song.

31:59

there, you just have to allow

32:02

the voice to come out and represent it, whether

32:04

it's the sound of a young person whose

32:06

hopes and dreams are laid out right in front of them, you

32:09

know, in standing room only, right through to Hey Whiskey,

32:11

which is the desperation and exhaustion

32:13

of somebody who's

32:15

desperate to move on. Yeah,

32:17

desperate.

32:19

I mean, that's the key word to it, desperate.

32:23

And that's what I think the vocal has in it, a little bit

32:25

of desperate, because I was worried

32:27

about singing. A different kind of desperation,

32:29

but it translates. But there's an honesty

32:31

to it as well. And

32:35

that's, to me, it's like I want to feel like

32:37

I'm having a conversation with somebody when I'm singing a song.

32:40

And that's what I want to feel like I'm sitting, just like I'm

32:43

sitting here talking to you right now. But that's

32:45

why I feel so comfortable talking to you. Yeah, it's just, that's

32:47

the way I try to sing a song. You've

32:49

always been fed, you've always obviously had strong,

32:51

you know, good genes. Good genes. That's

32:54

what I count. Good genes. My uncle

32:56

was a pro ball player, my dad was a pro

32:58

ball player. Yeah, yeah. But

33:00

you've definitely focused on fitness and

33:02

on physical well-being in recent years. You

33:05

know, you dedicated that, you inspire others to do

33:07

it, you're invested in it, you have ESPN

33:09

joining you, amongst other things. I mean, it's

33:12

clear that athletics and physical performance

33:14

is something that you've been able to turn your attention to

33:16

in light of leaving other habits for the most

33:18

part behind. How important has that been? It's so

33:21

important. It's therapy for me. And

33:23

you know, I try not to miss a day.

33:25

I mean, I'll take a day off every now and then. I try not to miss

33:27

a day. It's just, it clears my head.

33:30

And I actually get a lot of ideas, musical

33:33

ideas, stage ideas, professional

33:35

ideas, family ideas, when I'm working

33:37

out. And then when we're on the road, it's

33:39

even more intense because we work out pretty much all day

33:41

when we're on the road and the band does it with me. And

33:44

what that turns into is

33:47

sort of a therapy session for all of us because

33:50

we're working out and we're talking, we're talking about

33:52

our issues, problems

33:54

we're having with family things we

33:56

need to deal with. And we also talk about our show.

34:00

So it becomes more of a team building exercise

34:02

as much as anything when we're out there doing until, until

34:05

about three hours into it when you see guys when I'm,

34:07

when I turn my back to do something and I turn back around

34:09

I see somebody sneaking off and

34:11

getting on the bus and or EJ

34:14

my security guy pretending like he's on the phone talking

34:17

that they can't do a workout. You guys

34:19

do team from South Valley having a cigarette like. Yeah.

34:24

The Cheeky Virginia Slim. But they,

34:26

they hang in there pretty good. But it's a, but we always

34:29

say too that

34:30

on the days that we can't work out or we can't

34:32

get a workout in we don't feel like our shows is

34:34

good. I mean I found it later

34:36

in life. I struggled with it on and off. I would do

34:38

it and I'll do it and I'll do it and I just needed to find

34:40

what I wanted to do. That inspired

34:43

me. I mean the boxing for me is like woo. There you go.

34:45

Yeah that. That's fun. And

34:47

I hate it man if I miss a day. You're

34:50

right. I think we think it's about improving the body. I've

34:52

always found the best success comes when you realize that

34:54

the mind is telling the body what to do. You got

34:56

to get the mind right. Absolutely. And that to me they're

34:59

one in the state. They work symbiotically

35:00

for me as far as workouts

35:03

go. I mean it's, it's, it's,

35:05

it's good for me. I'll put it that way. I

35:07

spoke live on the radio show this morning as of taping

35:09

and I played your song

35:12

and I tried to remember

35:14

me well and I, I

35:16

tried to put into context how I feel

35:18

about the way you in faith live your life through

35:21

the music and into the conversation. And

35:24

I want to commend you. I think that, you know, I think the way

35:26

I put it was there are people who step out and people

35:28

who stand up and you have

35:30

consistently stepped up. Thank

35:32

you. I, you know, I think the

35:35

moment that I feel like I'm not improving and

35:37

learning and getting better every

35:39

time I go in the studio, getting better with how

35:41

sonically I want things to sound, how I

35:44

want to sing the songs that I want to record.

35:47

If I get to the point where I think that I'm not improving,

35:50

that's going to be the time to stop doing it because

35:53

I never want to be the guy

35:55

that's just doing the same thing over and over and over again.

35:57

But do you,

35:58

do you understand that you in. represents

36:00

something beyond the quality and consistency

36:03

of the art that you've shared with us that has been

36:05

very important to the growth and evolution of the

36:08

way country music shows up in the conversation,

36:10

that your bravery and ability to be able to

36:12

go on stage and show inclusion

36:15

and diversity and openness, choose love

36:17

and not hate. Absolutely. These have been really

36:20

important steps towards allowing

36:22

others to step in and do that even

36:24

at the expense I think of some audience. Yeah,

36:26

we probably, but I tell

36:28

you it's worth it. If

36:29

you can make

36:32

one person think just a little bit

36:34

when they hear something like humble and kind or

36:36

something like standing room only, if you can make

36:39

one person think about

36:40

how they can you know take that

36:43

go huh

36:44

you know maybe I should change the way I think a little

36:46

bit about something

36:47

then if you can do that then it's worth it all. Just

36:49

one person.

36:51

You know it's concentric circles you know you

36:53

first you got to look at a mirror. Yeah,

36:56

yeah. And then you got to teach your kids to

36:58

have humility and kindness

37:00

and then

37:01

they go out and they

37:03

show that to their friends and then their friends

37:05

show that to their friends and

37:07

it just

37:08

eventually it gets out into the world.

37:11

We live in a time now where you can't run

37:13

from conversation and you can't run from progress.

37:16

One way or the other you're gonna be in drawn into a discourse

37:18

whether it's with a family member, a friend, on social

37:21

media, on stage, it doesn't matter. And

37:23

in quarantine really brought in and importantly

37:25

and rightfully so brought a lot of that to the surface

37:27

and it was like all right we're all on the same planet

37:30

and I really felt again like you stood up and you really

37:33

you expressed how you felt in a very honest

37:35

and true way. I

37:37

know from speaking to other artists I have the same when

37:39

it comes to artists who contribute to the conversation

37:41

or show up politically, socio-politically

37:44

or any kind of level that I don't

37:46

expect it but I respect it when

37:48

you do. Yeah. But I don't want to expect it of

37:50

you because your job is to write and

37:52

create art that moves me so I

37:54

don't want you to feel a responsibility. Sure

37:57

and I think people that's... People

38:00

get so caught up into what people's politics

38:02

are and what they think, especially

38:04

when you're musicians or athletes. And

38:06

they instantly want to say, I'll just shut up and sing

38:09

or just shut up and play ball or

38:11

whatever. And it's like, well, I have an opinion too. I'm

38:14

a human being, but first and foremost,

38:16

before I'm an entertainer, I have

38:18

kids that I want to see raised in the world that

38:21

I want

38:22

my kids to be raised in. So

38:25

yeah, I mean, you're

38:27

going to lose either

38:29

way sometimes, but you got to feel good about yourself

38:31

and feel good about who you are and what you stand

38:34

for. Yeah, it's funny because I read

38:36

those comments and I saw I was getting at as well, is that the artist

38:38

I know who gets hold looks and play your position, do

38:40

what we pay you to do. Yeah.

38:43

And it's like, hang on a minute. I don't work for you. Yeah.

38:46

I create something of value and your investment allows me

38:48

to continue to create it. Thank

38:50

you. Thank you so much for it. Yes. I

38:53

want you to have memories and things you'll always remember

38:55

in a shared experience. Right.

38:57

Enjoy the music. It's

38:59

a fair trade. Yeah. Enjoy the music.

39:01

Yeah. Let me be me and enjoy the music.

39:03

You sang a song on the album called Small Town King. To me, it

39:05

perfectly sums up

39:08

what it is to be somebody who grew up

39:10

in a community, in an environment that's proud of where

39:12

they live, that ultimately stands by

39:14

the things that they grew up observing, maintaining

39:17

them, building on the legacy of family, friendship,

39:20

showing up for people, community. There's

39:22

a pride involved in that song, which is

39:24

really actually very, it's

39:27

compelling. It draws you in. It makes you

39:29

really interested in the story. That's

39:31

what I like about it. You know, even the incision

39:34

you brought that one up, because even the up-tempo

39:36

stuff has a good message to it. And that's what's

39:39

sometimes the most difficult thing to find

39:42

is an up-tempo song that really has

39:44

a message to it. You know, usually they're all

39:46

about fun and games and tailgates

39:48

and all that kind of stuff. And those are fun, and I've done

39:50

a few of those and probably will. But

39:53

a song like that that has a deep, meaningful

39:55

message, like he says, tells a story, but

39:58

it still rocks out. It's pretty rare.

40:00

to find it. It's fun to find. In the small

40:02

town that I grew up in, I mean, I

40:04

probably grew up in the smallest town you can imagine.

40:06

We had a caution light and a cotton

40:08

gin, and maybe 200 people

40:11

lived around there, and that's where I grew up. And I

40:13

grew up in a community in a small town that was

40:16

very inclusive, very open,

40:18

very nurturing.

40:19

I didn't grow up around people being

40:22

racist. I didn't grow up around people being

40:24

mean to people. I grew up in a community

40:26

that was... If there was any

40:28

hint of any of that, my coach, who was my

40:30

mentor growing up, my coach would

40:33

knock that down in a heartbeat. He would

40:35

slap the shit out of you if he heard you say anything

40:37

racist. Well, that's why I love this song so much, because it's

40:39

a really important reminder that great

40:42

things come out of small towns, and yet... And

40:44

I'm not asking you to go on a record about one thing or another,

40:46

but I do have to say that does it hurt your heart?

40:48

I have to ask you, does it hurt your heart to see something

40:51

like a small town

40:52

being ultimately

40:54

politicized through one voice or another right

40:56

now? What's going on is very hard

40:58

to hear from being a music

41:01

fan. Yeah, I mean, honestly, I know what

41:03

you're referring to, and I can honestly

41:05

say I haven't heard the song or seen the video. But

41:08

I do know from my experience

41:11

that the small town I grew up in

41:13

was

41:15

a great place, and it was full

41:18

of great people,

41:19

and it was of all racists.

41:22

And everyone got along.

41:25

I don't remember... Like I said, I don't

41:27

remember

41:27

anything that

41:29

was negative in

41:31

that light from the small town I grew up in. I grew up

41:33

in...

41:34

That's all I can speak to. I can't... I can't

41:36

intelligently speak to somebody

41:39

else's music. I can speak to...

41:41

Especially when I haven't heard it, but I can

41:43

speak to what I know, and then I'll let the

41:46

type of music that I record and the types

41:48

of messages that I try to put out speak for themselves.

41:51

I love music so much,

41:53

and I understand that it plays a role in many,

41:55

many conversations in many people's lives, and everyone

41:57

has a right to be able to express themselves. I

41:59

to not listen to it. Well that's the key.

42:18

Music should not do that. It

42:20

is magic to

42:23

me. It's real magic. It's actually

42:25

what magic is. It comes

42:27

from nowhere and it

42:29

goes everywhere. We like to say when you're

42:31

in the studio and something really works, we like to say God

42:34

just walked in the room. That's exactly what it is. And

42:36

I just don't believe that's God's word. Yeah,

42:39

well I'm with you. It breaks

42:41

my heart man. This

42:44

album From Beginning to End sounds so

42:47

hopeful. You talked about it before. You talked

42:49

about the optimism and the sense of yearning,

42:52

the desire to achieve, to just go get it.

42:54

There's moments in there that really kind of sum

42:56

up this bit of Bruce Horns being there for me.

42:59

Yes, absolutely. Is that fair? Yeah,

43:01

that was a name check during the session

43:03

when I was talking to the piano player. So I want some Bruce Horns

43:05

being on this record. Which I love. Stan Ramoli. That's right.

43:08

Which I love that. We talked a little bit about the journey influencing

43:10

that as well. Yeah, Journey on the song

43:12

Change the World. I wanted Journey guitars at

43:14

the end. Give me some Neil Shaw. Yeah,

43:17

thank you. He needs his props. Was

43:19

that all wrapped up in the feeling you were trying to create?

43:22

The idea of the music building this hope,

43:24

the sense of like it's all out there waiting

43:26

for you if you have the courage to go get it. Yes, it

43:28

was part of the whole thing. Life affirming. Get

43:31

up, go do it, enjoy life. And

43:35

learn how to process and enjoy the down

43:37

moments because you learn more from those moments than

43:39

you do from the happy and content

43:42

ones. When you have troubled

43:45

times, I mean you have to acknowledge

43:47

those and pay attention to those as well because I

43:50

think that's where most of the life lessons come from. So

43:54

what does life look like for you now? Let's

43:56

just put it into a framework that is like I'm not

43:58

trying to like put your life in a nutshell. But

44:00

you begin in this

44:02

very unique position of finding

44:05

not only your own identity, but your actual

44:08

identity at a point when you're cognitively

44:10

able to process that. You discovered

44:12

it. I was 11. I

44:14

was 11 years old. And it puts you on this process,

44:17

this journey, which you somehow turn into fuel.

44:19

It's fire for you. It did. I

44:22

mean, like I said earlier, it flipped a switch

44:24

on me.

44:26

Because,

44:28

like I said, the situation that I grew up in wasn't

44:30

great. So when I found

44:32

that verse, it just

44:36

made me better at everything instantly. You know, there's

44:38

probably a little part of me that wonders where there's a small

44:41

part of that which is, there's an

44:43

element of that which is like, I've got to prove myself. I've got to prove

44:45

who I truly am to myself because my

44:47

identity is all fucked up already. And to him.

44:50

And to him. Yeah. Like, yeah.

44:53

So I've got to find a way to get his attention to show him that it truly works. And

44:55

that to me is in line really with where some of the drinking

44:57

and the other things kick in because you still need a distraction

44:59

from the trauma. Sure. You know, it's

45:02

hard to process that. You've got to find a way to just numb yourself. And the older

45:04

you get, the more it gets in your kitchen.

45:06

Oh yeah. Well, because you're kids. Yeah.

45:09

That's the mirror of life. Yeah, absolutely.

45:11

You don't want to shine that back. So fast-forwarding to

45:13

now, you made an incredible

45:16

album, an album that should have been your second

45:18

or third album. That's fucking good. Thank you,

45:20

man. Thank you. And it's got the most

45:22

incredible songs on it. Your kids are grown up. Yeah.

45:26

They're all out there going to be... 26, almost 25 and 21.

45:28

You and Faith now are staring

45:30

at a whole new era in life. Mm-hmm.

45:34

Right? Where it's like,

45:36

okay,

45:36

for the most part, we've done our job up to this point.

45:39

We're always on the clock and we're

45:41

always in the company. Yeah. We're

45:44

here. We're invented. We're invented. Yeah.

45:48

Right? Yeah. We're

45:50

here. But you can run the office now.

45:52

It's your office. You've built it. Congratulations.

45:55

You did a great fucking job. Thank you. Thank

45:57

you. We're so proud of our girls.

46:00

independent and fierce

46:02

and that's what we wanted. They have their

46:04

own opinions about everything and

46:07

we encourage them to express them. My

46:10

daughters will post something sometimes and somebody

46:12

will say, why did you let her do that? I'm

46:14

like, what do you mean let her do that? She's

46:17

a grown woman. Yeah, no,

46:19

you're out of a job there. You

46:21

now get to sit down with faith

46:24

and figure it out and you've got, again,

46:26

you've still got your own careers going on but

46:29

it must be exciting to be able to look at

46:31

each other and go, alright, what does our 3.0 look

46:33

like? We

46:35

figured it out. The

46:39

first six months was a little rough when they

46:41

all were going, when our youngest daughter finally

46:43

moved out. The first six months were rough and

46:45

it's always rough for our mom.

46:48

After about six months, it was like turn

46:51

the music on, write some candles because

46:54

we got married and we got married and

46:56

I'm not going

46:58

to do the math but we had a

47:00

kid pretty quickly after we got married

47:03

and so we didn't really have a lot of time to know each other.

47:06

We don't have been together for nine

47:09

months or so dating and

47:12

we got married, had a baby

47:14

and now it's like

47:15

we're kind of like on our second honeymoon. We

47:18

never really had a honeymoon to start with. No

47:20

honeymoon? Not really. We're

47:23

enjoying it. Now when the kids come home, it's like if they're

47:25

there for five days or so, we're like you know, no you

47:27

haven't started a go. Sorry,

47:30

that was the Kiwi version of it. Mom and dad.

47:33

Mom and dad need a little candlelight

47:35

time. So what is, so it all leads to this.

47:38

What is the secret of a long lasting lifelong

47:40

friendship? Gosh, I

47:43

wish I knew the answer to that

47:45

but I think

47:47

honestly early on we knew it

47:49

was going to be tough. Both

47:52

of us being artists and ambitious

47:55

and wanting to, but I got to hand it to Faith.

47:57

She

47:58

right off the bat stepped back and said

47:59

You know, I'm gonna raise my kids.

48:01

So she

48:02

she gave up a lot of huge part of her career

48:04

for a long time

48:06

to just raise kids and and

48:08

that's why our kids Have turned

48:11

out as well as they've turned out because of

48:13

her I give her all the credit same and

48:15

she's same on my side She's the best. Um, we

48:18

we feel like um,

48:20

I feel like

48:21

I've got a lot more ahead of me And and

48:23

we're looking forward to I mean, gosh, I can't wait for grandkids.

48:26

I mean Hopefully not soon But

48:29

I can't wait for a couple of trips to the moldies before

48:31

that Yeah, I know we got some trips to do but

48:33

but yeah, I mean it's life looks

48:36

looks great ahead I mean for both

48:38

of us Um, I you know, I'd love to

48:40

I'd love for Faith to go back in the studio and record a record

48:43

as she excited to do That do you think I think she's getting

48:45

the age for it. Yeah, I think she is because

48:47

I mean We need her voice out.

48:49

Yeah She's just one of the best ever

48:51

Is there a song on the album that somebody wrote for

48:54

and with you that reminds you the most about her? Well

48:56

cowboy junkie probably is in there

48:58

then her the song hers straight

49:01

up about

49:02

faith Yeah

49:03

for sure

49:04

and but you know You

49:07

always find a piece of your relationship

49:09

in every song when you're seeing it coming gosh

49:12

Cowboy junkie probably is the closest thing

49:15

to it just because it's just really

49:17

talk It sounds like a cheeky sort of song

49:19

but it but it's really about somebody

49:21

like that's taking care of you and got your back

49:24

Yeah, yeah, we started

49:27

With a song on the record called some

49:29

songs change the world I

49:30

kind of want to want to finish our conversation

49:33

this time around there and wonder what

49:35

the songs were that you can really think about that

49:38

that have the most memories attached and that

49:41

Connect you to really essential

49:43

moments in your life. I

49:45

have them. I wonder what yours I have a few Early

49:48

on of course, you know, I love music growing up

49:50

and for you know in church at first, you

49:52

know, listen to

49:54

Gospel choirs and stuff in church was part of

49:56

it. I have a specific

49:58

memory

49:59

of we grew up right on a bayou

50:02

in Louisiana. I mean, from here to that sign

50:04

back there, there was a bayou and

50:07

I was fishing on it all the time. But I remember laying

50:09

on the dock. Gaitas,

50:10

gaitas? Oh, gaiters everywhere. Gaiters everywhere.

50:13

Gaiters everywhere. Just like, what's up, Bob? Yeah, we

50:15

would swim. You're naming them. Water skiing the bayou

50:17

and you sit in there getting ready to water ski and you look

50:19

over and there's a gator floating here and you go, all right, hit

50:21

it. Come on, man. Hit it. How

50:24

you doing?

50:25

Oh, you wait till I tell you my shark story's about spear

50:27

fishing. But I got in

50:29

some hairy situations for that. But anyway, I remember

50:32

laying on the dock doing math homework

50:35

and I had

50:35

a little transistor radio and there

50:38

was a song called I'm Not Lisa by Jesse Coulter,

50:41

who was married to Waylon Jennings. And I

50:43

remember

50:45

trying to do math homework but falling asleep and

50:47

being in and out of sleep. And I have a very

50:49

specific memory of hearing that song dreamily

50:53

in my head. So every time I hear that song,

50:55

it puts me right back in that moment. And

50:58

then there's another song, Saba Pati

51:00

by Santana. And my uncle

51:02

who's old hippie, Napa Valley,

51:05

ex-ball player,

51:06

looks just like Sam Elliott. I mean, good

51:08

looking guy, 80 years old, hangs

51:11

out on the... Some people just age different. Oh, I know, hangs out

51:13

on the... You're one of them. Well, I don't know about that. Yeah,

51:15

you do. I'm hanging on, hanging on. Oh, man, whatever.

51:19

He sits on his porch and smokes weed all day and

51:22

listens to music. He won. Yeah,

51:24

he won the game. He's gonna be on the pier

51:26

fishing. He's in the Hall of Fame now. He did it.

51:29

But

51:30

he told me early on

51:33

in my career before I was married, before

51:35

I met Faith, he said, Saba Pati,

51:38

you know that song? I said, yeah, I know that song. It's

51:40

an instrumental. I said, I know it. And

51:42

he says, let me tell you something. Never

51:44

make love to a woman with that song

51:46

playing unless you intend on marrying her.

51:50

So I didn't till I did, and then I

51:52

did. That is deep. That

51:57

is brilliant. So that's one, and then

51:59

the other. song that

52:01

I'll throw in there that that was life-changing

52:03

in a lot of ways was It's Your Love. Because

52:06

Faith and I were really new in our relationships. The

52:08

very first song we recorded turned out to be a big

52:10

hit and it just sort

52:12

of it just sort of brought us

52:14

even closer together and that song will always be

52:16

special to us. And when

52:18

we shot the video,

52:20

we shot it here in LA,

52:21

Faith was pregnant with Gracie when we shot the video.

52:23

I mean very pregnant, like eight months pregnant with

52:25

Gracie and you can

52:28

look at the video and you'll spot it. She had this I

52:30

forget what it was, taffeta, silk dress

52:33

on and she had her you know pregnant belly

52:35

out there and she kept wanting milkshakes

52:37

all day while we were shooting the video. So

52:39

she's right before it takes, she's drinking her milkshake

52:42

and then it spills all over

52:44

her silk gown. So every now and then you can

52:46

see a milkshake stain on her silk. So I

52:49

have a barbecue stain on my white t-shirt she's got a milkshake

52:51

stain on her silk gown in the video.

52:54

It's adorable dude. Alright

52:57

last question for you before we say goodbye for now

52:59

and I hope we can continue talking because it

53:01

may have come a little bit later on and I would have liked

53:03

but you know I've been looking

53:05

forward to spending time with you face to face. I'm a fan bro.

53:07

Oh thank you man. Me too. I'm a fan of yours. We'll

53:10

do it again for sure. My last question, what's the

53:12

shark story? Oh gosh,

53:15

we had a place in the Bahamas for a long time. Our kids

53:17

pretty much grew up. And they're everywhere in the Bahamas.

53:20

They are. They're everywhere. They're

53:23

everywhere. And

53:25

when you spearfish down there, I spent 20

53:27

years spearfishing. I'm addicted to it.

53:29

I love it. I haven't done it in a couple years because we sold our

53:31

place and had big back down there. But

53:34

it's for all free diving and you

53:36

have to use an old-fashioned pole spear.

53:38

And there's

53:38

like you say there's shark everywhere. There's also great

53:40

fish everywhere. And the way we do

53:43

it is pure national geographic. I mean we're out in

53:45

the wild water and we're

53:47

free diving 40-50 feet and shooting

53:50

you know 25 pound hog fish. A fation on this as

53:52

well? Well she'll swim across the top and watch. In fact,

53:55

she was swimming across the top watching a spearfish

53:57

one day. And

53:58

I'd gone down and got a...

53:59

fish and came up

54:01

and put it on the boat and I'm watching her

54:03

and I notice a thin pop-up behind her. Her

54:06

eyes got bigger. She didn't

54:08

notice it at first so I started swimming towards her and

54:10

the shark was coming right behind her. And

54:12

then when she realized the shark was there, she

54:14

started turning over and started screaming and kicking

54:17

and doing the back telling. So I had to swim right

54:19

over top of her and poke the shark in the nose

54:21

with a spear to get it to go away. And

54:25

then I've had shark

54:27

come up with a fish and had shark take the fish right off the

54:30

spear.

54:32

And then the scariest moment I've had, I mean

54:34

you get used to it and you learn

54:36

how to read because

54:39

you can feel the electricity in the water when they get pissed off.

54:41

As a great philosopher once said, nope. Nope. I

54:44

had a lot of friends that felt that way at first but once I got

54:46

them used to it they were alright. Yeah so you can feel

54:49

it because they're so full of energy. If

54:52

they start getting pissed, you can feel it. But

54:55

the scariest moment I had was I

54:57

killed this hogfish,

54:59

I shot this hogfish, it was about 50 feet down

55:01

and it was gassed.

55:03

My spear got stuck and it got stuck up

55:05

under a

55:06

reef. I got scars all over my shoulders

55:08

from coral reefs. I'm digging under there trying to get the fish

55:11

out. But I can't go. So

55:13

you're bleeding. I'm bleeding. I'm going down trying

55:15

to dig this fish out and I don't know how many more

55:17

dives I have left in me. And there's

55:19

some shark around because there's blood in the water so there's some

55:22

reef shark around, a couple bull sharks. What reason

55:24

I think that's like 101 don't do? Well

55:26

the guy who was running the boat says I don't think you should go back down.

55:29

I said well give me one more shot at it. Give me one more

55:31

shot at it. I'm going to go get this fish. So I got

55:33

down there and I was pulling it, had my fins

55:36

up on the reef. I'm trying to pull

55:38

the fish out and I finally got it out and I had

55:41

no air left whatsoever. I look up and I say that's

55:43

a long way. So I'm kicking and kicking and kicking.

55:45

And right before I get to the top it

55:48

felt like a submarine came by me and

55:50

it blew my mask off. And it was

55:53

a 14 foot tiger shark. Just

55:55

blew right by me. And

55:57

thank God he didn't just turn a little bit. I felt for sure

55:59

I was going to do it.

55:59

done but that's what I got out of the water.

56:02

Yeah, Tiger Shark shows up. It's time

56:04

to go.

56:05

Okay.

56:07

Thanks for checking that out. Myself and Tim McGraw

56:10

in conversation right here on the interview series.

56:13

Just scroll down. You'll see lots of conversations with Burna

56:15

Boy, Billy Eilish, Fola Boy, Lady Gaga, Metallica,

56:17

Paramore, Little Yachty, Shnight, Dwayne, Sam

56:20

Smith. Thanks for many many more. We

56:22

also have a daily show as well. By all means go and check

56:24

that out. It's called the Zane Lowe Show. Every

56:26

single day right across the week we talk about brand

56:28

new music. We've got some news. We've got brand new

56:31

artists and we've got some guests in there as well. It's

56:33

kind of like a daily update in the world of music. So check

56:35

that out as well as the interview series and we appreciate

56:37

your time

56:37

right here

56:38

on Apple Podcasts.