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order. Douglas

1:04

is one of many who found a new

1:06

life through Seattle's Union Gospel Mission. I was

1:09

living on the streets when I heard this

1:11

guy talk about how he got clean and

1:13

sober at the mission, so I decided to

1:15

give it a try. I could feel something

1:18

working inside of me, and I knew I

1:20

was getting better. Today, my number one goal

1:22

is to stay clean and sober. It's

1:35

2017, and the man who many would

1:37

call the most powerful drug trafficker in

1:39

the world has just been

1:41

extradited to the United States of America.

1:44

Joaquin El Chapo Guzman has recently

1:46

been caught for the third time after

1:48

escaping prison for the second time. But

1:51

this time, it seems like he's really

1:53

finished. There's no easy

1:55

escape from US custody. If

1:58

you listen to this podcast and have eyes and years,

2:00

I assume you don't need to know who El

2:02

Chapo is and how powerful he was. With

2:05

him locked up, the most powerful cartel

2:07

in Mexico and the world likely, the

2:10

Sinaloa cartel is supposedly without its leader.

2:13

In the aftermath of his capture and extradition, one

2:16

of El Chapo's lieutenants, his right-hand man, calls

2:18

a meeting of the top Sinaloa cartel

2:20

leaders. This meeting is

2:23

supposed to include a couple of El

2:25

Chapo's sons called El Chapitos, an

2:27

elderly cartel leader in his 70s. But

2:30

on the way to the meeting, El Chapo's sons

2:33

and his 71-year-old man are ambushed.

2:36

Chapo's sons are slightly wounded, but

2:38

everyone survives. It

2:40

seems his lieutenant is making a play for

2:42

control of the cartel, and maybe he thinks

2:45

that Chapo's kids, who grew up

2:47

rich and spoiled, narco princess essentially,

2:49

and this elderly man are out of their depth

2:52

and don't have the heart, and

2:54

he can seize control with Guzman out of

2:56

the picture. It's one of

2:58

those things that just happens when a cartel kingpin goes

3:00

down. But this guy, this

3:02

lieutenant, he's very, very wrong.

3:05

And in months, he's arrested by

3:07

the Mexican authorities, supposedly with the

3:09

help of those other cartel players.

3:12

And soon after that, his son flees to

3:14

the US border to turn himself in, in

3:16

fear of his life.

3:19

And, you know, that's not the usual fear of

3:21

your life in the cartel wars. If you're willing

3:23

to cross over into the US and turn yourself

3:25

in to the austere US justice system, well, who

3:27

the hell could you even be running from? See,

3:31

that old man in the 70s who

3:33

was going to the meeting, his name is

3:35

El Mayo Zimbada. And

3:38

most people say he, not

3:40

Chapo, is the most powerful,

3:42

smartest, sharpest, ruthless drug trafficker

3:44

cartel kingpin that Mexico has

3:46

ever known. This is

3:48

the underworld podcast. Welcome.

4:10

Back through their episode of Audible thought

4:12

Cassie audio C were love hundred a

4:14

smurf Afford it all over the world.

4:16

Take you on Friday during the console

4:18

is it seems having to do with

4:20

international as crime Again gold. I'm joined

4:22

by someone earnest and this is his

4:24

q to make a reference or talk

4:27

about something in New Zealand that no

4:29

one else on just. Okay,

4:31

ah yeah, what's going on for me?

4:34

Nothing really a me. my versions of

4:36

boring sports guy is nearing completion. I

4:38

spent what like an owl? Comparing shin

4:40

pads online yesterday on the always had my

4:42

midlife crisis would involve drugs and casual sex.

4:44

but since as just playing football with a

4:46

bunch of home though the kiwi so ah

4:48

yes that says something to aim for. Love

4:51

it love it when you decide to share

4:53

on the part. As always

4:55

support our sponsor support us at pizza

4:57

round.com session will podcast or and items

4:59

or spot if I for bonus material

5:01

for couple dollars a mosque. Send.

5:03

Us money or contraband and I don't know if

5:06

you work for full company. Give us stuff for

5:08

free. Songs. You know though

5:10

our how how are things I am just

5:12

somehow nobody wants nobody nobody nobody wants the

5:14

are stuck about. Our lives are when we

5:17

have a fresh new episode about Cartels and

5:19

the man who love them and participate in

5:21

them lead them. whatever. El

5:23

Mio. we want to do an episode him

5:25

forever are my brothers actually been tell me

5:27

do when i'm does not info on him

5:29

out there though am lazy. So I

5:31

told him to do most the research and it is. He

5:34

also says that he will argue about the episode with any

5:36

one of the youtube comments. To post your

5:38

sources and a better not be Narcos Mexico

5:41

The tv show or a read a post

5:43

is rules not mind. Ah yeah I mean

5:45

that does not rule out almost every one.

5:48

I don't know. Man of people won't argue in the comics. Go.

5:50

For it is for the algorithm.

5:52

Yeah, there are once again

5:54

a lot of conflicting sources and

5:56

even conflicting testimony from witnesses or

5:58

whether on trial or when narcos

6:01

are in trial or some

6:03

of the narcos come forward to

6:05

do state's evidence. But

6:07

yeah, so he's a hard guy to parse.

6:09

He's not like El Chapo

6:11

or any of these other guys whose life

6:13

stories are known and you'll see I think

6:16

that he – that's a concerted effort by

6:18

him not to be the

6:20

center of narco curritos or just have his life

6:22

story be told. Sometimes

6:25

two sources will say an event took place in 2008. Two

6:28

other sources will say the same event took place in 2009. Just

6:31

calm down about it you nerds. We're having fun here. This

6:34

is kind of like I talked about how

6:37

in the Boris episode, so much information when

6:39

it comes to underworld stuff like this is

6:41

flexible, made up, exaggerated, just all that sort

6:43

of stuff. Yes, useful as for writing a

6:45

script on short notes. How long

6:47

did this one take? I

6:49

don't know man, two, a couple days but it

6:51

is what it is. So

6:55

Ismail Zambada Garcia aka El Mayo

6:57

is born in 1948 in a

7:00

very small town an hour outside

7:02

of Culacan. Culacan? Culacan. The

7:05

capital of the Mexican state of Sinaloa and

7:07

just an infamous narco region. He

7:09

grows up dirt poor in a farmer's

7:11

family again as many of the eventual

7:14

powerful narcos do. He

7:16

does odd jobs for money like washing trucks and

7:18

stuff like that and he gets his start in

7:20

the underworld operating as a hitman in the Juarez

7:22

cartel. There isn't that much about

7:24

El Mayo and his youth so it's pretty bare

7:26

bones. I assume we probably got to start doing

7:29

the usual lookout stuff or in the

7:31

fields but that's kind of what

7:34

we know about him, where he gets a start. I think

7:36

that's deliberate. He really adheres to the stay out of

7:38

the news, stay out of the headlines, keep

7:40

his information quiet like a VPN

7:42

for life attitude that we here

7:44

try to advise all aspiring criminals

7:46

to aspire to. Now

7:49

to start with his origins in the drug trafficking game,

7:52

we first have to start with a

7:54

Cuban named Antonio Cruz Vazquez who is

7:56

El Mayo's mentor in that whole world.

7:59

And A lot of this comes from a. Nineteen Seventy Eight

8:01

Washington Post Article. Vasquez.

8:03

Is thirty two years old when Castro takes over

8:05

and is a captain in a Qb National Police.

8:07

When the new regime comes to power, He

8:10

eventually vanishes from Cuba in what the

8:12

Post describes as mysterious circumstances and and

8:14

to quote the Post year. According

8:16

to reports obtained by Us law enforcement

8:18

officials, Cruise. Vasquez turned up in

8:21

Nicaragua where some said he was working

8:23

for Us Central Intelligence Agency and others

8:25

claimed he was representing to been Army

8:27

intelligence. When. Divide in our products. Officials

8:29

question him about these reports after his arrest

8:31

last January twenty eighth. Cruise. Vasquez

8:33

declined to discuss that no shit.

8:36

Oh boy he got the yeah wotan ah

8:38

said like are also Yoda by the spine

8:40

Sega with say or them yet a ghost

8:43

story for you yeah I mean it makes

8:45

sense that are you know she she knew

8:47

before we had to tell up before the

8:49

talk as in existence. Keep your mouth shut.

8:52

We've got a suitable for on my to

8:54

while cuban expert world of spy games and

8:56

drugs and crime. Most notably in our episode

8:58

about the crew are Cuban crime syndicate known

9:00

as The Corporation which was. Way. Back.

9:03

So. I go back and look into that

9:05

and it just makes perfect sense that. She's

9:07

this incredibly Cd and shadowy dude who

9:10

doesn't answer questions because am I was

9:12

is very similar. And he

9:14

very well may have picked up that

9:16

sort of substance use lessons from. From.

9:18

Vasquez are you know she may not have learned

9:20

that at all from him. We're just gonna speculate

9:22

while the over here. Like the producers

9:25

of a crappy Netflix doc series about some

9:27

conspiracy or serial killer or something like that.

9:29

Yeah, I mean not the net crappy Netflix

9:31

produces hit us up. That and stuff we

9:33

we. We. Really really love those

9:35

guys to keep on cinema see mouse

9:37

guys especially when you trying gets necessary.

9:39

We really love that. In the

9:41

are in the nineteen sixties, Vasquez get

9:43

a speed birth certificate saying he was born

9:45

in Porto Rico. He ends up

9:48

being arrested three times over the next decade

9:50

and couldn't twice for drug offenses, the last

9:52

one being for smuggling six hundred pounds of

9:54

weed into the U S. He's

9:56

released in Nineteen Seventy Three. Moved to

9:58

Mexico where he meets and Mary's. My.

10:00

Desk does somebody who was on my

10:02

sister. To their twenties and he's in

10:04

his fifties at this point. But. Was

10:07

Imposed says it's a match made in heaven.

10:09

And you know those guys. They are a

10:11

bunch of perverts, so walls and slide. This

10:13

also mean that in some way ah, El

10:15

Mio is a nap or biden I guess

10:17

somewhat. What are they? What are they say?

10:19

What's like that thing that people in sick

10:21

talked him out about. Aids? Aids,

10:23

something or other. When it comes to. To

10:25

date on manual more from things and are

10:28

unfortunately the add to that yeah but arm

10:30

anyway or what would allow it. They say

10:32

this about a family was already involved in

10:34

the production of drugs at this point, but

10:36

it didn't really have the means to smuggle

10:38

it. That's why you know oh

10:40

my oh group dirt points in a lower and

10:42

like other these other poor farmers in the rural

10:44

region, they start growing opium and we'd. But.

10:47

They just didn't have the capability traffic get on

10:49

a big scale that comes much later on. For.

10:51

The next four years Vasquez take control

10:54

though and he runs a very sophisticated

10:56

drug smuggling operations on the outskirts of

10:58

of of Culleton Cinema Cinema. You don't

11:00

the neighboring maximum size of Durango and

11:02

Chihuahua. They make up a region between

11:04

them known as the Golden Trial of

11:06

Mexico. It's extremely rural area and the

11:08

northwest of Mexico. Or you know, it's

11:10

mountainous and a lot of illegal opium

11:12

and we'd coming into the states is

11:15

coming from that region starting in the

11:17

nineteen sixties I think. even. Earlier

11:19

with the with the Opium right. Even.

11:21

Though it doesn't boarded, the U. S. Sur

11:23

was also the birthplace of basically every same

11:26

as Mexican trafficker who started the original Cartels.

11:28

My is the Gulf Cartel guys. Yeah, I

11:31

think that that's tied with their was Chinese

11:33

migrants to Mexico kind of rents of the

11:35

opium trade right intellect raise or something like

11:37

this. But. It is still. I mean

11:40

it's a shame. I also bit basis still

11:42

happening like the people still traffic opium out

11:44

that golden triangle of Mexico. Or is it

11:46

just the Asian stuff. Know what? fertilizing it

11:48

started yet isn't Isn't workers Chinese works coming

11:50

over I think brought with them. And

11:53

I grew it and then you know

11:55

somebody, Cartels got started smoking alcohol into

11:57

the Us and it was prohibition ended.

12:00

They kind of, I think they amped up though, we've

12:02

talked about this, I think they amped up the anti-Chinese

12:04

racism and basically took over, violently,

12:06

the opium fields from them.

12:09

But as far as among opium, I think

12:11

it's decreased a lot because they make so

12:13

much more money off the synthetic stuff. So

12:16

why do that when you can just make sense? I

12:18

don't know though, I assume it's still going on. It's

12:21

like weed, I think weed's decreased a lot too but

12:23

they're still, they're still smuggling it

12:25

in here and there. I think there was

12:27

a big news story this week about some

12:29

of the Tsenilawa cartel factions going entirely

12:32

into synthetics now and like ditching everything else.

12:34

It's so big now, I think they're like

12:36

experimenting with fentanyl on the border and I

12:38

don't know, it's pretty grim stuff but yeah.

12:41

I thought I saw something, again I haven't

12:43

had time to read more in the headlines,

12:45

that they had declared that

12:47

they wouldn't be moving front

12:49

and all. Oh, okay. At least maybe the

12:51

Chapitos did or something. I could be wrong but I think

12:53

it was, if they

12:56

smarten up, they realize that fentanyl

12:58

is getting a lot of attention. Why

13:00

would you go in with that when you can just do

13:03

your regular drugs and people will probably leave

13:05

you be for the most part? But fentanyl

13:07

is the stuff that's really causing people to

13:10

launch the US military at them and stuff

13:12

like that. So fentanyl is getting all

13:14

the attention so it might be the most profitable but it's

13:16

also going to attract the, I think most attention,

13:18

whatever you want to call it, I keep saying attention.

13:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The most effort from the

13:24

DEA and whatnot. Anyway, Vasquez,

13:26

who is essentially El Mayo's mentor and

13:28

it really teaches him how to

13:30

work in the drug game, he's

13:32

later buffed in Vegas for an $18 million

13:34

a year retail drug ring, which

13:37

doesn't sound like that much but we're talking about what, the 70s

13:39

here? So I think he's doing well for himself. Authorities

13:41

say at the time it's one of the biggest retail

13:43

operations in the state. In fact,

13:46

his lawyer in this drug bust is

13:48

none other than Oscar Goodman,

13:50

who is a famed mob attorney

13:53

turned mayor of Las Vegas. He represented

13:55

the basis for Joe Bashi's character in

13:57

Casino. Oh God, Anthony Spelatro. Was

14:00

like one of his most famous clients and

14:02

and basically every other mobster in Vegas

14:06

Oscar Goodman, he represented everyone from

14:08

like Meyer Lansky Nikki Scarfo Left

14:11

the Rosenthal at times. I actually recently tried

14:13

to interview him for another project and he

14:15

wanted like a cash payment Which is

14:17

just I mean classic his wife. I think is now

14:19

the mayor of Vegas. It was after him I don't

14:21

know if she still is so he

14:23

was a three-term mayor and then his wife became the

14:26

mayor Which is just I

14:28

mean the most Vegas shit ever right? I think there's

14:30

actually a podcast out there about him now I think

14:32

it's one of the recent seasons of

14:34

the Las Vegas mobster podcast I forget what it's

14:37

called But uh just an absolute legend is

14:39

uh is Las Vegas corrupt you blow my

14:41

mind here This is pretty pretty cool place

14:44

I mean we also set cash payments in

14:46

case you want to keep patreon stuff off

14:48

the books guys You've got a

14:50

PO box on Staten Island, right? I have one in

14:52

in my marinade actually You know you can send cash

14:54

there, too Around

14:57

this time in 1980 Miguel Angel

15:00

Felix Gallardo forms the Guadalajara cartel

15:02

Which unifies all the different independents

15:04

in a lower traffickers under one

15:06

branch and basically forms one unified

15:09

Mexican organization Minus the Gulf

15:11

cartel the traffic drugs They start

15:13

off selling mostly weed but soon advance into

15:15

moving that white stuff for the Colombian cartels

15:18

So what white stuff was that it's

15:20

what we say to avoid being

15:22

demonetized Guy art Oh

15:25

who's you know always the visionary? He's

15:27

quite clever when he makes a deal with the Colombians He

15:29

gets wants to get paid in half product as opposed to

15:31

a fee per kilo Which leads to

15:34

you know the Mexicans just their profits

15:36

Skyrocketing and then becoming more powerful eventually

15:38

then the Colombians whereas in the past

15:40

they were sort of subservient to them Now

15:43

they quickly start becoming their equals, but the

15:45

good times They

15:47

do not last when the Guadalajara cartel

15:49

takes out DEA agent Kiki, Mirena For

15:52

taking down one of their massive weed plantations that

15:54

was rumored to be worth about eight

15:56

billion dollars And there's a theory obviously

15:58

out there the CIA Actually ordered

16:01

him to be taken out because he was getting

16:03

too close to revealing One

16:05

of their working with the cartel one of

16:07

Reagan's drug profits to militia army schemes that

16:09

were very popular in the 80s I don't

16:12

know if you want to go down that rabbit hole Go

16:14

ahead, but we're not gonna focus on that so

16:17

Gallardo He goes on on the run sort of to

16:20

his top guys get arrested while he's on

16:22

the run sometime between 1987 1989

16:25

he convened the meaning of the

16:27

top traffickers in the country at a house

16:29

in Acapulco and apparently it's the house That

16:32

the Shah of Iran and I'm not talking about

16:34

failure Tardo But the ex-ruler the

16:36

actual ex-ruler of Iran used to rent when

16:38

he was in exile So, you know,

16:40

it must have been a pretty dope

16:43

house. Yeah, I mean today I learned that

16:45

the Shah of Iran rented an Acapulco

16:47

frat house while he was on the

16:49

run what? This is madness.

16:52

I didn't even know he was in Mexico That was that's

16:54

on me, but those parties must have been Whoa

16:57

wild that guy. I think he'd like to

16:59

lay head down, right? I don't think he

17:01

was on the run, right? I think he just was in exile. I don't

17:04

think they were trying to or they might have been I don't know here

17:07

at that meeting he decides not to shower

17:09

on but the extra over on but um

17:12

But Gallardo decides he's gonna divvy up the

17:14

territories and responsibilities to various people The

17:17

Ariana Felix brothers get Tijuana and form

17:20

the Tijuana cartel the Carrillo

17:22

Fuentes families led by a motto aka Lord

17:24

of the skies get Juarez and they form

17:26

the Juarez cartel and Finally the

17:28

area of Sinaloa Goes to El

17:30

Chapo and El Mayo and they

17:33

go on to bring back Hector Palma who had

17:35

fallen out of favor with Gallardo To form

17:37

the Sinaloa cartel. It's not clear

17:39

if the Gulf cartel guys were even at the meeting

17:41

Some say they were some people say they weren't And

17:44

now Gallardo is trying to keep this little profile But

17:46

he continues overseeing the different groups before he's

17:49

arrested in 1989 as the walls close in

17:51

and then he is officially out

17:53

of the picture Now you

17:55

might be wondering what is El Mayo up to at this

17:57

time and did he work for the Guadalajara cartel in the

17:59

1980s? Isn't this

18:01

supposed to be L Miles episode of? Well

18:03

it's not exactly clear. If. He was

18:05

officially in the Guadalajara Cartel. Or

18:07

not but we do know he was at the Narcos

18:09

summit. Will a split up the territories. And

18:11

we do know that he's doing deals at all

18:13

these guys. But. He might have been like

18:16

a semi independent. Operator. It's not

18:18

clear, as do things are with him. We

18:20

do know from one of his kids' testimonies

18:22

where he's later arrested that in Nineteen Ninety

18:24

Benjamin, Are ya know Felix The top dogs

18:27

are that you want to cartel. His.

18:29

His godfather, the kids godfather on his

18:31

baptism and months later his confirmation a

18:33

model curry your point as the top

18:35

dog The Wires Cartel. Stood.

18:37

As another got fire. So she's. Obviously.

18:40

Work closely with a model at the time and

18:42

of course he was a close associate of is

18:45

similar coal leader and business partner El Chapo. during

18:47

one of our days he just seems like a

18:49

guy to he was was not his guys, there

18:51

was bad blood or they hate each other am

18:53

I was. Seems like he was well liked and

18:56

well respected. And dumb. There

18:58

didn't seem to be a lot of bad blood for

19:00

him. Which. Are. You know,

19:03

he always had this rap as being

19:05

smarter than everyone else and knowing how

19:07

to keep the peace. To. Quote:

19:09

a Mexican official about a mile

19:11

before he ends up having the

19:13

similar Cartel he learned early on

19:15

had a hitter's wagon to other

19:17

bigger organizations. As she for at

19:19

this bit I've I've been wondering myself. How

19:22

he got nine like did he get it

19:24

because you're it's sunny days or whether he

19:26

likes egg whites or y z kudo mine.

19:28

Ah, I think it's a combination of have

19:31

some of the some of his nickname her

19:33

name's I'm not really a hundred percent sure.

19:36

Blida. What what is sunny eight days

19:38

or egg whites have to do with it? may have

19:40

or my. All Rights.

19:43

Okay, yeah. The. Deal

19:45

get outta were sat with all the cartels. A simple.

19:48

You. Do your own things in your territory, but

19:50

if you want to use someone elses territory also

19:52

known as a plaza, you gotta pay them attacks

19:54

to move stuff to their plaza and hold for

19:56

a time. and is guys are all doing

19:59

deals with each other peacefully enough with some

20:01

minor fighting here and there, but this is the

20:03

Mexican cartels, so you know that doesn't last too

20:05

long. And I just, I never

20:07

understood that mentality, which again explains why I'm not

20:09

the head of a cartel currently, but like, if

20:12

you're all making more money than you know what to do with,

20:14

like why, why do you need to

20:16

be in charge? You know, just like,

20:18

uh, just get along with everyone, you know, live

20:20

the good life. Why, uh, why

20:22

go to war all the time? But a big

20:25

thing is, unlike the Juarez,

20:27

Tijuana, or Gulf cartels, the Sinaloa cartel, they

20:29

doesn't have any territory bordering the

20:32

U.S. So the Sinaloa cartel, and

20:34

especially El Chapo, they start to

20:36

encroach on the Tijuana cartel's turf. El

20:38

Chapo starts building these elaborate tunnels, which he'll

20:40

become famous for, and he ducks out on

20:42

taxes. He's supposed to be paying to

20:45

the Tijuana cartel, the Ariana Felix

20:47

clan. They find out and they put a

20:49

bounty on his head in early 1992. This,

20:51

I mean, this is a good time for tunnel

20:53

builders, right? I mean, this is, so I'm saying,

20:56

building all those oil well tunnels on the Kuwait.

20:59

So the channel tunnel, I think that's 1992 as well. Big

21:02

year for tunnels. Good year. Engineers,

21:04

man. There's never a shortage

21:06

of illegal things you can

21:09

make money on. Here we

21:11

have the opening salvo and the Tijuana

21:13

Sinaloa cartel war that is brutal when

21:16

they bring in these California gangbangers,

21:19

the Ariana Felix brothers, Tijuana cartel, to

21:21

Mexico. And they're supposed to serve

21:23

as, like, the cicarios. They kidnap six of Chapo's

21:26

lieutenants in Tijuana. They torture them. They

21:28

kill them. Shortly after that, a car bomb explodes

21:30

outside of one of El Chapo's houses, including a

21:33

con. He strikes back in November of

21:35

1992 when 15 of his men dressed up as policemen

21:37

and try to take out two of the Ariana Felix

21:39

brothers at a club when they're at a

21:41

resort town of Jalisco.

21:47

We all enjoy a little mystery.

21:50

Every other week, one strange

21:52

thing presents forgotten stories from

21:54

America's newspaper archives. They

21:57

all have something in common, a

21:59

single element. that can't quite be

22:01

explained. Join us on

22:03

One Strange Thing and you'll hear about

22:05

a man who was literally stricken

22:08

with genius. A 21st

22:10

century child who remembered piloting a

22:12

World War II bomber. A

22:15

mysterious, unidentifiable blob in

22:17

Texas. And then there

22:19

was the lizard man stalking through small

22:22

towns South Carolina. From

22:24

cryptids and disappearances to modern

22:26

day miracles, One Strange Thing

22:28

brings you stories that are

22:30

very real and just a

22:32

little otherworldly. Subscribe

22:34

now wherever you listen. Hey,

22:43

do you have trouble sleeping? Then

22:47

maybe you should check out the Sleepy Podcast.

22:50

It's a show where I read old books in the

22:52

public domain to help you get to sleep. It

22:55

was the best of times. It was the

22:57

worst of times. Classic

22:59

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23:01

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23:04

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23:16

So whether you have a tough time snoozing or

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23:23

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your podcasts. New episodes each week.

23:33

Sweet dreams. For

23:42

the next six months, El Chapo and the

23:44

Our Animal Felix brothers are hunting each other down and

23:47

they're opposing men. El Mayo still remains

23:49

sort of in the shadows, right? He plays

23:51

it cool. In May of 1993, after spending

23:53

a few days going after Chapo

23:56

and Guadalajara and giving up, a

23:58

couple of Our Animal Felix brothers and a team of hitmen

24:00

head to the airport to go back to Tijuana. While

24:03

at the airport, they get word that El

24:05

Chapo is there as well, and there's this

24:07

infamous crazy shootout, it's more like a running

24:09

gun battle in a parking lot, and

24:12

the Tijuana cartel think they know El Chapo's car,

24:14

they shoot up a white mercury, but

24:16

it's not Chapo who's there, it's a cardinal,

24:18

the Archbishop of Guadalajara, and he's hit 14

24:20

times. Ouch. I mean,

24:22

yeah, I was going to make a pun about

24:25

Cardinal Sins, but then I could actually hear groanings

24:27

I wrote it down, and I'm doing so well

24:29

with the jokes so far. So yeah,

24:33

I feel like I'll just try and get some gold in

24:36

before the end of this show then. But

24:39

you've had some good ones recently, you know, you can't win

24:41

them all. I want to roll. Ish.

24:45

This would be a big deal in any

24:47

country, a cardinal getting assassinated in underworld feud,

24:49

but it's an even bigger deal in Mexico

24:52

where the Catholic Church is so powerful,

24:54

and the fallout is severe. Chapo

24:57

was captured later that year in Guatemala, the

24:59

eldest, Ariana Felix brothers, was captured as well.

25:02

A couple years later, Hector Palma was arrested,

25:05

leaving El Mayo as the only original one

25:07

of the three co-founders in the cartel who

25:09

was out of prison. Palma's

25:12

extradited to the US. El

25:14

Chapo bribes basically the entire prison and continues to

25:16

work with El Mayo atop the Cenoloa cartel, but

25:18

El Mayo at this point is firmly in the

25:20

driver's seat. He stays loyal to Chapo. He

25:23

doesn't cut him out of the picture. He keeps

25:25

sending him cash, puts that money

25:27

as commissary and whatnot, and just remains –

25:29

like big, remain partners in a way. Yeah, and also

25:32

it's worth looking at pictures of both of them because

25:34

they look pretty much identical.

25:36

These big, black, bushy moustachees, a

25:38

bit like Bob Hoskins' Mario, it's

25:40

pretty nuts. Yeah, that cowboy

25:43

mystique, you know? A

25:45

lot of this comes from Malcolm Bates' book, The

25:47

Last Narco, I think that's how you say his

25:49

last name, which is ostensibly about El Chapo, but

25:51

El Mayo obviously plays a huge role in Cenoloa.

25:54

Like, you know, El Mayo, he's the one who realizes

25:56

once he's solely in charge when Chapo's locked up that

25:59

corrupt is an incredibly

26:01

important toolkit for a narco to have. So

26:03

he assigns the Beltran Leyva brothers, more on

26:05

them later. For right now, just know that

26:08

they're key players in the cartel, and on

26:10

Mayo, he tasked them with buying

26:12

off the right people. It's even alleged that

26:14

him and the brothers bribed the then president

26:16

of Mexico in the late 1990s, but

26:19

that's never been proven. Mayo,

26:22

he just comes across in general like a

26:24

different breed. He's the one who stays

26:26

out of prison. He's the one who stays out of

26:28

trouble. A lot of the cartel

26:30

guys too we've covered, they're just real psychopaths who

26:32

kill for nothing. According to the

26:34

DEA agents who tracked him, Mayo

26:36

really only kills people when it's the

26:38

last option for business in a cold,

26:40

calculating manner. Oh, okay. So just

26:42

a cold, calculated manner. Okay. Yeah,

26:45

I mean, the second I said that, I realized how absurd

26:47

it sounds, but you know what I mean. Whereas

26:49

many cartel bosses, including El Chapo, just want

26:51

to flood the American markets with drugs, he

26:54

always understood supply and demand economics and would

26:56

use it to his advantage. Sometimes

26:59

slowing down shipments causing

27:01

that drought. While El Chapo would

27:03

just store a ton of cash all over the

27:05

country in various villas and stash houses he owns,

27:08

now Mayo learns how to launder money through

27:10

dozens of front companies that he eventually brought

27:12

in his wife and daughters to run as

27:14

the owners. He has four daughters and four

27:16

sons. All of them are involved in the

27:18

family business. In the late

27:21

90s, we get another one of those narco

27:23

summits where all the heads of the top national cartels, like

27:26

a sorority house of Arizona State, they go

27:28

meet up in Porto Vallarta, minus

27:30

the Tijuana cartel this time. One

27:32

of the main motives on the agenda is

27:35

to discuss the Ariana Felix brothers who just

27:37

remind you, that's the Tijuana cartel. They've

27:39

been creating a lot of problems with Tijuana.

27:41

Too many murders. Their bloodlust is

27:44

bad for everyone. Like we've said, Chapo and them

27:46

have been beefing. At this point,

27:48

El Mayo is actually having personal problems with Ramon

27:50

Ariana Felix, who is the most psychotic

27:52

of the brothers, and it's over

27:54

a $20 million debt that Ramon claims El Mayo

27:56

owes him. I got 99 problems

27:59

with the $20 million debt. a few with a

28:01

murderous cartel leader, ain't one? Solid

28:03

reference to a rap song that was popular 15 years ago.

28:05

That's where I am. Yeah. The

28:07

second big agenda item is the passing of the leader of the

28:10

Juarez cartel, who's Amado

28:12

Carrillo. We talked about he dies during a

28:14

botched plastic surgery in 1997. He

28:18

is like, you know, it's not

28:20

that abnormal for these guys to get worked

28:23

on to try to evade capture more, but apparently he

28:25

was doing it for vanity's sake, which, you know,

28:27

makes it a little worse. The Tijuana

28:29

and Gulf cartels, they're trying to muscle into Juarez's

28:32

turf, and El Mayo doesn't like that because he

28:34

has close ties to that point of his family.

28:37

So he makes an alliance with Amado's brother,

28:39

who's the new leader of the Juarez cartel,

28:41

and together they're going to go after the Ariana

28:43

or Felix brothers, the Tijuana cartel. God,

28:45

you guys are staying up with it, right?

28:47

Is this getting too confusing? Sassy, so where

28:49

are we in the ties between these things

28:51

now? So like the Tijuana cartel

28:53

is going to get done by

28:56

Juarez, and then where... Well,

28:58

Juarez and Sinaloa are teaming up to go after

29:00

the Tijuana cartel, which is those brothers, the Ariana

29:02

or Felix brothers, who Chapos had problems with for

29:05

years and El Mayo has some problems with as

29:07

well. And then the Gulf cartel is just out

29:09

on their own at this point? Yeah,

29:12

yeah. Cool. Eventually, I mean,

29:14

you know, they have the Zeta situation and they go to war

29:16

with Sinaloa, but right now that's where it

29:18

stands. Amayo starts this war by ordering

29:20

a series of high-profile assassinations, including the

29:22

murder of the Tijuana police chief, who

29:24

obviously was on the take, and

29:27

right away the war is just completely on. By

29:29

February of 2002, one of the Ariana or

29:32

Felix brothers, Ramon, tries to take on El

29:34

Mayo and his home turf of Sinaloa, but

29:36

the local police who are in El Mayo's pocket, they end

29:39

up killing him. He was, like we said, the one with

29:41

the 20 million who was supposed to be the most psychotic

29:43

in the leader. A month later,

29:45

another one of the brothers gets arrested, who's the

29:47

supposed brains of the family, and the

29:50

Tijuana cartel is starting to hurt. The

29:52

Sinaloa cartel in El Mayo, they never officially

29:54

take Tijuana, but the cartel was severely weakened.

29:57

Two other brothers get arrested in 2006. Finally,

30:01

to wrap up, the last brother, the eldest

30:03

one, who was the one who got

30:05

arrested in 1993 for that shootout that killed the Cardinal.

30:07

He's released a few years later in 2013. He

30:10

gets killed when he's celebrating his 64th birthday. He's

30:13

killed by a clown assassin, which

30:17

is not a technical term. It's a guy who's

30:19

dressed like an actual birthday clown with a red

30:21

nose and stuff who takes him out at his

30:23

birthday, which is a tough way to go.

30:26

Yeah. I mean, didn't they reverse this?

30:29

Spoiler alert, but didn't they reverse this for that

30:31

next week's show? Like the clown got shot dead,

30:33

I think, at the end of the show? I

30:36

don't remember exactly, but the show does seem

30:38

to be relatively accurate with all these alliances

30:40

and families in front of them. Oh, what's

30:42

that? The end of 0-0-0. Maybe

30:44

I'm getting my shows mixed up now. Maybe

30:47

that was another show. God, there's so many narco

30:49

shows out there. And we still

30:52

haven't been paid for any of them, huh? Like what

30:54

is going on here? We're just failing

30:56

miserably at this. There's a whole point of this

30:58

podcast. With

31:02

the fall of the Tijuana Cartel, new opportunities for

31:04

Omayo. The family had been an

31:06

important connect between the Mexican cartels and the Colombian

31:09

cartels. And the Colombians, they're tired of

31:11

dealing with them at this point. So they seek out

31:13

Omayo, who, like we said, has a solid reputation as

31:15

a top trafficker and just guy who gets

31:17

deals done. And he is able

31:19

to secure his own sort of partnership with the

31:21

Colombians, which is going to be huge.

31:23

He gets these independent ties to them, which

31:26

he still maintains to this day. So

31:28

yeah, early spoiler alert, he's still free,

31:31

still alive. Two very important

31:33

things that most traffickers, we can't say the

31:35

same for them. Just

31:37

to step back a little at this point to, they're

31:39

basically partners, Omayo and El

31:42

Chapo. So we need to tell

31:44

the story just a little bit about El Chapo. He escaped

31:46

prison 2001. Welcome

31:48

back into the Sinaloa Cartel fold by Omayo.

31:50

Like we said, loyal guy. This

31:52

is the start of the myth of El Chapo

31:54

really building in the Mexican media, and

31:57

I guess the international media too, a little later on.

32:00

He got in some legs with all these stories

32:02

coming out of him living like a king in

32:04

prison. This stuff is being reported

32:06

in the media, but he now achieves

32:08

this legendary outlaw status. And Mexicans

32:10

love their legendary outlaws, though I

32:12

guess we all love our legendary

32:14

outlaws. He becomes not only

32:17

the face of the Sinaloa Cartel, but

32:19

soon the face of cartels in general in

32:21

the press in Mexico and in the international

32:23

press, which is kind of perfect for

32:25

El Mayo who likes to operate in

32:27

the background. Some people think he

32:29

actually may have orchestrated the whole Legend of El Chapo

32:32

thing. He's about that more rich than famous life. You

32:34

know what I'm saying? Yeah, I

32:36

mean that would be a genius move for him, a bit like

32:38

what I've done with you in this podcast, right? So I can

32:40

make no money in the shadows and you can make no money

32:42

in the line line. Yeah, yeah. What's

32:45

the thing from – I

32:47

feel like I've referenced this before. What's

32:49

the ban in New Zealand? Oh, the flight of

32:51

the clunk. Yeah, when

32:54

they're like, this is the story of two guys who

32:56

start at the bottom and continue at the bottom and

32:58

end up at the bottom. You're the second most famous

33:00

thing to come in New Zealand besides them, right? Oh,

33:03

I know. I know. And everyone here knows you too. Yeah.

33:06

While the DEA and the US government definitely

33:08

know about El Mayo at this point, it's

33:11

much better to be the guy not in the

33:13

media. Again, much better to

33:15

be the guy not in the

33:18

media or on Instagram. I can't

33:20

stress that enough. But

33:22

still, with El Mayo's rising status in

33:24

the underworld comes even more attention from

33:26

the US government. President Bush

33:28

designates him a tier one drug kingpin,

33:30

which means the US starts to target

33:32

him directly, his money too, which is a

33:34

huge problem. The DEA focuses on

33:36

his business efforts. They put more offices in Arizona, which

33:38

is where a lot of their drugs are coming through.

33:42

They closely monitor some of his relatives who are in the

33:44

States and they raid some of his

33:46

homes in Sonora, Mexico. They

33:48

even put El Mayo wanted billboards on a highway

33:50

between Tucson and Phoenix. Yeah, I think there's a

33:52

Beatles song about that, right? I mean, I'd never

33:55

heard. I've never actually heard of

33:57

this tier one kingpin thing. I mean, yeah, it seems like

33:59

a big deal. like I would know about it but I

34:01

looked up who's on the list these days and

34:04

what's interesting is where they're from right so going

34:06

on 2020 data which is

34:08

the last I could find Mexico,

34:10

Colombia have the most 62 32

34:12

respectively Afghanistan next

34:14

was 17 kingpins I mean

34:16

that's 17 kingpins in

34:19

Afghanistan okay and then Honduras with

34:21

11 and Pakistan with 8 no

34:23

Burma no China no Ecuador

34:26

you think that's a bit weird I don't know. I

34:28

think well Ecuador didn't really have kingpins right that's

34:30

really a new thing in the past couple years

34:33

I'm surprised by the Burma thing yeah and

34:35

there's no Southeast Asia but I assume I

34:37

feel like we've talked about in recent episodes

34:39

I assume that's changed right because they had

34:41

that big bust of them the

34:43

guy whose name I'm forgetting yeah yeah yeah yeah

34:45

yeah so I assume he must have made it

34:47

on there but those guys like you know we

34:50

talked about this they seem much better at staying out

34:52

of the limelight you know and I think

34:54

the language issues are much bigger there. Yeah they're

34:57

like a bunch of El Mayos in the jungle

34:59

oh yeah yeah yeah and they seem to and

35:01

there doesn't seem to be you know there's no

35:04

pivot to Asia even with cartel stuff Afghanistan and

35:06

Pakistan seems weird but I guess that because of

35:08

such a US presence there for decades it makes

35:10

sense yeah I suppose but

35:12

Honduras with like true kingpins as

35:14

well I thought that was like similar

35:16

to Ecuador right just the sort of transshipment point

35:19

a lot of street gangs that kind of stuff

35:21

well no wasn't the president recently uh you

35:23

know had that trial and everything um oh

35:26

yeah okay well it seems on it yeah

35:28

fair enough this thing with

35:30

Burma is that uh haven't they don't they

35:32

really not focused that much on on on

35:34

getting stuff into the US now right

35:37

isn't their focus mostly Australia there's there's

35:39

a little bit coming into like California

35:41

but that's only for local like sort

35:43

of Southeast Asian gangs so most of

35:45

it's not coming it's most of it's

35:47

just coming through the Mexican border now

35:49

yeah right or it's going to Asia

35:51

you know that's where all the Yaba is

35:53

going right and Australia yeah I guess so it

35:55

makes sense the DA wouldn't focus a ton of

35:57

their attention on Burma yeah yeah I said that's

35:59

my assumption So someone told

36:01

us a crazy story on Instagram

36:04

about Yaba in Yangon. I

36:06

don't think we can – I don't think we can – I don't think we can – We

36:10

can't talk about it, but yeah, wow. That was

36:12

insane. And if anyone knows much about

36:14

how to get into Yangon these days, I am trying to get

36:17

a visa. I wouldn't broadcast that. I would just go over and

36:19

like make sod or something like that. Yeah,

36:22

just for fun. Yeah,

36:25

I was going to ask if you read that

36:27

story. Maybe we will talk about it eventually if

36:29

the person gives us permission. But yeah, very disturbing

36:31

thing to read and we hope you're doing better.

36:34

At this point, the DEA isn't quite

36:36

sure who exactly is in charge of

36:38

the Sinaloa Cartel and starts focusing more

36:40

on El Mayo. Right about

36:42

that time, the DEA officers start receiving anonymous calls

36:45

that El Mayo was not the guy they wanted,

36:47

that the top dog was really El Chapo. And

36:49

I'm going to go ahead on a limb here

36:51

and say that was probably El Mayo's people saying

36:53

don't look at me. Look at El Chapo. He's

36:56

the guy you want, which is just like –

36:58

I mean does that – that

37:00

works just like the – I feel like it's the kind

37:02

of thing we would – I mean Trump made it work

37:04

in the 80s, right? Yeah, but

37:06

according to the last narco book, the

37:09

authorities believed they were always one

37:11

step behind El Chapo and two

37:13

steps behind El Mayo. I

37:16

would have guessed one step and three steps, but that's what they

37:18

said. Although honestly, the phone

37:20

call thing just seems like not

37:22

the most genius level tactics. I don't know.

37:24

I don't think it's the kind of thing

37:26

– or it maybe

37:28

is the kind of thing like a dumbass who schemes through Sun

37:31

Tzu decides to do. The

37:33

DEA themselves conclude that the two narcos

37:36

are just best buds who work together

37:38

and that El Chapo even looks up

37:40

to El Mayo who I think

37:42

is maybe 10 years older and probably more experienced

37:44

at that point. Whereas El Chapo is

37:46

always on the move and making big moves,

37:48

they think El Mayo is always behind the

37:50

scenes pulling the strings, making deals, and trying

37:52

to keep the peace as much as possible.

37:55

To quote the last narco, quote, one

37:57

DEA agent likens him to a chairman of the United States.

38:00

board who operated solely from the top floor

38:02

and made the executive decisions. Amayo

38:04

knew what to do with the money and he knew

38:06

how to handle the Colombians. He also knew

38:09

what was good for business. He was

38:11

the guy who wanted to cooperate and bring

38:13

people together, the DA believed. Yeah, that podcast

38:15

analogy is still checking out. I

38:18

feel like I've explained this

38:20

before about the Cinélova Cartel, but they're

38:22

different than the other cartels, right? They're

38:24

not a hierarchical top-down structure with one

38:26

boss, like say El Mencho and Jalisco.

38:29

It's been referred to often as the

38:31

Cinélova Federation because it's a collection of

38:33

organizations that are loosely aligned that

38:36

might agree on an overall strategy, share

38:38

drug smuggling routes, share intelligence they get

38:40

from bribes, things like that. But

38:42

they also have their own independent routes,

38:44

their own bribes, their own operatives. So

38:47

Amayo has his guys, Chapo has his

38:49

guys, and another powerful leadership crew like

38:51

the Beltran Labor Brothers, they

38:53

got their guys as almost completely separate

38:55

organizations that are also working together. They

38:57

also all know each other from back

39:00

in the day in Cinélova. The

39:02

Beltran Labuds grew up down the road from El

39:04

Chapo's family, and there was a lot of marrying

39:06

between the organizations because, as the DA

39:08

agent said, the thinking might be that

39:11

if you're going to be less likely to turn

39:13

on or kill your amigo if your wife is going

39:15

to annoy you afterwards, which is just good policy in

39:17

general. Just a list of two of the marriages. El

39:20

Chapo's last wife, the one he had when he

39:22

got busted, the beauty queen, she was the daughter

39:25

of a top figure in the cartel. Yeah, Emma

39:27

Coronel, we got into some cool stuff about her

39:29

on the show with Deborah Beniello about Narcastes,

39:32

female Narcoes, I think a few months ago now.

39:34

Or maybe it's like a year ago, I don't

39:36

know anymore. But yeah, that was really interesting.

39:39

I think it was like a year ago, you know, time's up, flat

39:41

circle. Everytown

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follow on our Spotify. Does

41:43

that work? One of the Beltran Labor

41:46

brothers was married to El Chapo's cousin. One

41:48

of El Mayo's sons was married to the daughter of

41:50

another Topson and Lower Cartel figure. And

41:53

this is a thing that I can't find conclusive proof

41:55

of, but they say that one of El

41:57

Mayo's sons is supposedly married to one of El Chapo's

41:59

daughters. Which I mean talk

42:01

about narco royalty right there like that wedding must

42:03

have been a lot of

42:06

fun You guys you guys are

42:08

geniuses you get the idea the funny thing is

42:10

though that still most of them Maybe not el

42:12

chop on a mile or maybe they they still

42:14

almost always turn on each other even with that

42:16

a lot of angry wives But

42:18

yeah, where was I choppo fresh out

42:21

of prison? he's eager

42:23

to really get back into the mix of things

42:25

and This is where

42:27

we see the cartel become even more of

42:29

a federation when choppo really asserts independence even

42:32

more as a distinct separate Separate group the

42:34

DA believes that el my and el chop will

42:36

share a common interest to keep the businesses strong

42:38

and not undermine each Other and even though they

42:41

had a bunch of disagreements about strategy They never

42:43

really broke rank, but the thinking is at this

42:45

point They're operating just more and

42:47

more independently sort of like a non-aggression pact

42:49

with shared resources So a

42:51

choppo then gets into the meth business without

42:53

a mile which is his first solo

42:56

drug partnership He's stepping out on his own

42:58

You know like Sean does to his family for for

43:01

days at a time when he gets into his own

43:03

meth business if you know What I'm saying an hour

43:05

an hour online on shin pads So

43:09

we're in 2003 el choppos looking

43:11

to step out on his own build himself

43:13

back up and he goes against El miles

43:15

wishes for stability for the first time by

43:18

this point that Tijuana cartel is falling off its

43:20

peak El Mayo has a newest

43:22

alliance with Juarez cartel So the

43:24

Liscinola cartel has control or options

43:26

on most of the border what they

43:29

don't have control over It's a lucrative

43:31

border town of Nueva Laredo in eastern

43:33

Mexico That is Gulf cartel

43:35

territory But el choppos sends his weakness

43:37

in the Gulf cartel at that time the leaders just

43:39

gotten arrested a few years earlier And even

43:41

though it's been controlled by the same family for decades You

43:44

know it now seems like like their territories

43:46

pretty much up for grabs After

43:49

a ton of infighting a guy who Sean why

43:51

don't you pronounce this name for us? Oh,

43:53

she'll cut it Dana green Listen

43:56

to that accent he takes the reins

44:00

and the Belcher and Leyva brothers, they have

44:02

a narco summit. Again, these guys love their freaking

44:04

their conferences, right? They're like dentists

44:06

in Vegas. They decide

44:08

now is the time to strike. So they're going

44:10

to take over Nueva Laredo and push the Gulf

44:12

Cartel out. They think it's going to be an

44:15

easy takeover, but what they don't account for is

44:17

the Zetas, which again, you guys know who they

44:19

are, lunatic ex-Mexican military special forces guys

44:21

that the Gulf Cartel had recruited as

44:23

their arm wing. We have a

44:25

whole episode on them from only a couple of

44:28

months back. I don't even remember, but good episode.

44:30

So go listen to that as we go into

44:32

more detail there. Yeah, that

44:34

was a good one. I mean, they

44:36

are pretty high up on that psychopath

44:38

test too. Not nice guys, very silly

44:40

geese. Yeah, just bad news,

44:43

bad news all around. Bodies,

44:45

of course, start dropping. Chapo and Belcher

44:47

and Leyva, they form their own groups

44:49

of goons called Los Negros, composed

44:52

of gang bangers, a lot of Mexican

44:54

mafia guys from El Salvador and Honduras

44:57

and all the local gangs down there. But those

44:59

guys are just no match for the Zetas, though

45:01

the war doesn't seem to be going

45:04

too well, but Chapo catches a double big break or

45:06

so he thinks when Guin gets

45:08

arrested by the Mexicans in 2003. So they

45:10

kind of assume that the Gulf Cartel is

45:12

finished, but it also helps Chapo out with

45:14

the Mexican government. The US had been breathing

45:16

down their neck after he had busted out

45:18

of prison, but now that they arrested the

45:21

boss of one of the major cartels, the

45:23

pressure lowers and in turn relieves some of

45:25

their need to go

45:27

after Chapo. He even shows up in

45:29

the way of Leyva Laredo a few months later

45:31

to claim victory in a way, mission accomplished and

45:33

whatnot. By the way, how come the Mexicans get

45:35

new Laredo and the Americans get OG Laredo? I

45:37

mean, we've got tons of guys emailing in about

45:39

their dad who shot up a Walgreens or whatever,

45:41

but no one is answering the big questions. What

45:43

are you talking about? Shooting up a Walgreens? I

45:45

just... What is, what is,

45:47

why is it new Laredo in Mexico, but it's

45:50

old Laredo in America? No, I get that, I

45:52

get that question. What is the, I just want

45:54

to get to the bottom of one of these.

45:56

Like, what does that mean? Maybe

45:58

I'm thinking about this, maybe... Maybe I'm

46:00

thinking about one particular guy who's really pressing me

46:02

to do an interview with his dad who has

46:04

basically held up convenience stores.

46:07

I was like, probably

46:10

not. The other

46:12

emails we get are amazing. They are brilliant

46:14

and I love them. I

46:16

would listen to that episode. Okay,

46:19

go on, get back to him. Yeah, I

46:21

feel like that's interesting to me. There's a

46:23

guy out there robbing gas stations like that.

46:25

Yeah, let's do more. Currently. What's it all?

46:27

I have to get away with it. There's a lot

46:30

of cameras these days. What is it? What's

46:33

his casing like? How much thought has he put

46:35

into it? Has he just messed up and runs

46:37

in guns blazing? I think we've all thought about

46:39

it. Yeah, you didn't give up

46:41

on journalism just yet. Maybe I did. I

46:43

think we've all thought about tactically how we

46:45

would rob a Walgreens. Not

46:48

that we do it, but tactically, so I want to

46:50

know what his process was. All right, sorry,

46:53

man. Get back to me. I'll

46:55

put you on the show. We'll do an episode next

46:57

week about your dad and his Walgreens tactics. Could

46:59

we call an episode how to rob a Walgreens

47:01

and get away with it? Yeah, we

47:03

do numbers there for sure. I

47:06

think what you do when you do that is you

47:08

reach out to CVS and they're like, look, we've got

47:10

this episode idea. Do you guys want to sponsor it?

47:13

Yeah, okay. Nice

47:16

CVS showing up to it. Anyway,

47:19

where were we? Yes. It's a

47:21

little presumptuous, the mission accomplished thing because,

47:24

you know, the Zeta's come back on the

47:26

Sonola cartel with a vengeance and they

47:28

lose a lot of people. I think we

47:30

talked about this too in the little mini

47:32

episode we did on LaBarbie, who was the

47:35

American-born psychopathic narco guy, who was a key

47:37

player in that war, which is,

47:39

I think, available on the Patreon or on the

47:41

YouTube. So while this battling

47:43

of the Gulf cartel at Zeta's, while

47:45

that's going on, El Mayo convenes this

47:47

meeting with El Chapo and the brothers

47:49

in 2004 in Monterey, Mexico. So

47:54

he's got that alliance with the Juarez cartel, I

47:56

think we mentioned, with El Mayo, Sin and Loa

47:58

Federation and them. fruitful it's

48:00

taken out the Tijuana cartel. Chapo

48:03

now wants to take out the current

48:05

Juarez leader who is the brother of

48:07

Amado Carrillo Fuentes who died on the operating

48:09

table. If you remember El

48:11

Mayo had formed an alliance with him after that death because

48:13

he was friends with the family. But

48:16

like we said these guys don't

48:18

stay loyal usually for long. He

48:20

agrees to it so Chapo makes his

48:23

move when the brother is visiting his family back

48:25

in Culiacan and he is

48:27

killed and not out Chapo. The

48:29

brother is killed and so is his wife. Yeah

48:31

so things are going nuts with

48:33

the Sinaloa Federation and El Mayo and

48:36

Chapo. They're fighting the Zetas. They're

48:38

now going to be fighting the Juarez

48:40

cartel and this is just the start of

48:42

it. Things are about to get really bad in Mexico

48:45

and El Mayo and Chapo are basically going to be at war

48:48

against everyone and that is

48:51

what we will get into next

48:53

week. Whoa whoa

48:55

whoa you're doing next week? That's amazing. I've got

48:57

a deadline and yeah like I mentioned I'm spending

48:59

quite a lot of time these days looking up

49:02

second rate sporting goods to distract myself from

49:04

it so yeah that will be really

49:07

good. Yeah so let us know if you guys want to

49:09

hear more of the best shin pads. Yeah or if you

49:11

guys want to know more about I feel like the cartel

49:13

stuff can get so lost and this guy did that, that

49:16

guy did this, this guy did that. So

49:18

if you guys don't dig these episodes let

49:20

us know and until next week. The

50:01

song

50:04

of Theatre