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amazon.com/ news ad free. That's

1:00

amazon.com/news ad-free to catch up

1:02

on the latest episodes without

1:04

the ads. Hello

1:08

and happy Sunday. Happy Sunday everyone. Welcome to

1:10

our regular two minutes Q&A session brought to

1:12

you by the New European newspaper. Should we

1:14

dive straight in? Let's just go for it.

1:17

Question one from Tan in Hackney. So Rishi

1:20

Sunak got his way on Rwanda didn't

1:22

he? Will it help him in

1:24

the election or are the voters not going

1:26

to fall for this nonsense? Thank you Tan.

1:29

Well I mean briefly yes after a long

1:31

time no and no.

1:34

So what happened this week this last

1:36

week was that there was the

1:39

final stages of the Rwanda bill and

1:41

it ping-ponged as they say

1:43

between the House of Lords and House

1:45

Commons and finally the bill got through

1:47

and it will now become law and

1:50

that means that in theory at least Sunak

1:53

gave a very butch press conference at which

1:55

he said you know no ifs no buts

1:58

it's almost an iron law of politics. politics

2:00

when a politician says no but something will

2:02

go wrong. But he said 10 to 12

2:04

weeks. And what

2:06

will now happen is that there will

2:09

be multiple legal challenges to the deportations

2:11

that he wants to happen in July

2:13

at the latest. No, I don't

2:15

think it will help him in the election. I think that what

2:18

I mean, it's true, of course, that

2:21

immigration as a general issue features in

2:24

voters lists of priorities, although I have to say that

2:26

it's this election in

2:28

cost of living the economy, the

2:30

NHS, other housing shortages are

2:33

way ahead. But it's worse

2:35

than that, I think, because it's become a kind of weird,

2:40

virility test fixation with him.

2:43

And people know it's just a tiny

2:45

number of people comparatively, a few hundred a

2:47

year at most, cost $540 million. The

2:49

cost of it is just breathtaking. It

2:54

looks and is like an ideological

2:57

vanity project. And so my sense

2:59

is that even for voters who

3:01

are sort of animated

3:03

by this sort of fixation with stopping

3:06

the boats or illegal immigration, I don't

3:08

think you're going to look at this.

3:10

There's nothing worse than being both

3:13

cruel and ineffective. That's right. So

3:15

I don't think

3:17

I think it's, we'll look back on

3:20

Rwanda as the random policy and the

3:22

stop the boats fixation

3:24

as the kind

3:27

of the worst of Roshishi now. Well, people

3:29

must remember also that even if the

3:31

flights do take off in 10 to

3:34

12 weeks, that's not success. Success is

3:36

stopping the boats in his

3:38

terms. That's the that's a

3:40

tactic towards the strategy to stop the

3:42

boats. This is not going to stop

3:45

the boats. There's no way it's going

3:47

to stop the boats. Well, I rely

3:49

on my older son who who did

3:51

some volunteer work in in Calais, for

3:53

care for Calais, the refugees area

3:56

there. And you know, he

3:58

hit the message he brought back was that You

4:00

know refugees know all about this. Yeah,

4:02

and if they even made your way

4:04

all the way from hell,

4:07

yeah to You

4:09

know being in sort of the work of Sordova. Yes,

4:11

right You know the

4:13

idea that Richard Sunak is going to send

4:15

you to Rwanda, but he's not getting it

4:17

through Yeah does not deter you a deterrent

4:21

To be worth doing it. It has

4:23

to obviously work and this obviously isn't

4:25

going to work And I listened

4:27

to Zoe Gardner who we had

4:29

on. Oh, yeah Yeah, always a gardener on

4:32

very very immigration and she and she said

4:34

quite obviously, you know But but it hasn't been

4:36

said enough is that people like

4:38

you said they're desperate to get here They'll

4:41

find difficult they'll find other ways to get

4:43

there to avoid border force more dangerous ways

4:46

So it's you know imperiling people even even

4:48

further, you know people want to come here

4:50

for a variety of reasons But what are

4:52

the top reasons is that they've already got

4:54

relatives here? You know, so it's not going

4:57

to it's not going to stop them. They

4:59

all going to try and get here and I'm

5:01

afraid these this flight thing is one

5:04

of the biggest white elephants We've

5:06

ever seen in prison. It's pure. It's a

5:08

Victorian folly and animated by you know nativism

5:11

and hatred. It's horrible Well, thank you tan

5:13

Thank you get the gist of where we're

5:15

coming from on that one next question, please

5:17

when I studied law at university in the

5:19

mid 1960s I was taught

5:21

that democracy requires the separation of

5:23

powers between the legislature Parliament the

5:26

executive cabinet and the judiciary civil

5:28

and criminal courts ranging from magistrates

5:30

to the Supreme Court Well,

5:32

and how did the function of the executive ceased to be that

5:34

of the cabinet and become that of the Prime Minister? Is

5:36

it apparently now is I can remember

5:38

that Millon and Heath answering questions addressed

5:41

them during PMQs by saying my honorable friend

5:43

sexual estate of home affairs will be answering

5:45

questions on such and such a day and

5:47

I suggest you address your questions to him

5:49

her that's unthinkable now, isn't it from Tim

5:52

fell good question interesting question It is isn't

5:54

it because you know, we have

5:56

adopted by almost by sleight of hand this

5:58

sorts of presidential. Yeah all around prime

6:00

ministers and we don't operate within a

6:02

presidential system so it does

6:04

cause tensions and problems doesn't it? It

6:07

does and it's an interesting point that

6:10

Tim says we have separation of powers well

6:12

up to a point actually because the whole

6:14

point about the cabinet is it's

6:17

the part of the Constitution the

6:19

unwritten unclotified Constitution that links government

6:21

to parliament because we have a

6:23

parliamentary system not a presidential one

6:26

and you know Badgett famously called it

6:28

a hyphen you know a buckle

6:30

which joins the whole system together and

6:34

so that that that that's he's right Tim's right

6:36

that that was the sort of the cabinet as

6:38

a group was kind of the face of the

6:40

government in parliament and

6:43

I guess you know it it

6:45

really started to shift a fuzzy

6:47

presidential system in spirit

6:49

if not in institutional changes under Thatcher

6:52

where strong leadership was so prevalent in

6:54

the you know she'd sometimes refer to

6:56

the cabinet as they you know you

6:59

know they were they were different to her what

7:01

will the vegetables have you all the way to

7:03

have the faith the faith the favorite the favorite

7:06

spending image joke I think it's true that

7:09

the Blair put rocket boosters under it and

7:12

I remember his chief of staff Jonathan Powell

7:14

talking openly in Whitehall about the need to

7:16

introduce an a polyonic system which is slightly

7:18

you know alarming were to

7:20

use but you know you that's and

7:22

they I remember

7:24

envisage turning Downing

7:27

Street and then turn left of

7:29

the cabinet office into a sort of day

7:31

factor West Wing of the White House you know

7:33

and you remember they were there was all the

7:35

talk about giving him a play then you know

7:37

Blair force one that's right and I think that

7:39

was sort of the height of it but but

7:42

Tim's right that in effect we have a quasi

7:44

presidential system and that's

7:46

one of the reasons

7:48

why ineffective prime ministers just

7:50

don't get carried yes because no

7:52

one really now says look at

7:54

the conservative government it's Rishi Sunak

7:56

and his team they just look

7:59

at Sunak Yeah, but he I mean

8:01

to be fair he plays up to that doesn't

8:03

he? Yeah, like my policy my I mean I

8:05

is now the in it's all about I and

8:07

there any way back do you think no I

8:10

I think that you need you know you

8:12

have to in in terms of effectiveness you

8:14

need to have a terrific cabinet yeah and

8:16

let you know labor's first cabinet could be

8:18

quite good you know there are some very

8:20

capable people in there but the the weight

8:22

of attention and effectiveness

8:24

will all will all be

8:26

in number 10 the

8:29

system is now and the civil service has

8:31

adjusted over the years to the

8:34

you know the idea that the Prime Minister's

8:37

word is is sort of wholly writ

8:39

so it is you know we live

8:41

in a de facto presidential system and

8:43

I can't see that rolling

8:46

back really where it's really troubling is

8:48

where that kind of wholly writ starts

8:50

overruling absolute common sense and reality well

8:52

it's like the Rwanda bill yes I

8:54

mean it is I mean this is

8:56

the that's the problem the

8:58

system was not designed for presidentialism

9:01

it was designed for cabinet government

9:03

and accountability in the house and

9:06

you know people defending

9:08

their departmental responsibilities

9:10

and they do to a certain extent but you're

9:12

right that I mean we

9:14

saw the damage that in a

9:17

fairly brief premiership actually

9:20

Boris Johnson did to the whole

9:22

structure of the British state yes

9:24

and trust in the

9:27

British state and that's that's

9:29

a reflection too of how the

9:32

person at the top the Prime

9:34

Minister with this quasi-presidential range and

9:36

power and image and aura can

9:39

just wreak havoc yeah and I

9:42

I do think that whilst

9:44

I don't think it's going to be rolled back

9:46

I think at some point and we've said this

9:48

before on the podcast there's there

9:50

is going to have to be a revisitation

9:53

of the codes and rules that that that

9:55

hem round These roles and that

9:58

of the Prime Minister and you know it, The

10:00

United States, the the Untidy

10:02

fight. He. Inherited Evolution

10:05

constitution we have now is not set.

10:07

The perp analysis question sir I'm across

10:09

all independent facilitated by right wing press

10:11

cells with self interest in ah yes

10:14

I'm an actor and I mean and

10:16

at another point to make I guess

10:18

is that either in in in ways

10:21

that the breaks his hated members of

10:23

the European Union was another system bauer

10:25

that sauce and. And. In

10:27

a way they absolutely hate continued membership

10:29

the European Convention on Human Rights as

10:31

another system. palin to say to say

10:33

this a pain in the they just

10:36

sit by the you know they just

10:38

sit well they just sit as a

10:40

a an unreasonable restraints on the in

10:42

the title or decreasing power the prime

10:44

minister and and that there's a culture

10:46

around that bay's warring I think. Excellent

10:48

question Psyche ten ah next question please

10:50

from Poll Milliken. Inspired.

10:53

By your discussion on phasing out the sale of

10:55

cigarettes are good for this Is this my favor

10:57

question with. All. Those who makes

10:59

sense to extend the message on make

11:01

it illegal to sell the Daily Mail

11:03

to anyone fifteen years of age or

11:05

younger which is then raise the age

11:07

of legal sale of the newspaper by

11:09

one year every day with game stopping.

11:11

Today's young people from ever taken that

11:13

the paper ridiculous Something at this noxious

11:15

outlets will lead to an almost immediate

11:17

improvement in mental health. Surely an idea

11:19

labor should set up a wedding power

11:22

pull your genius. Five years without a

11:24

may be the best question we had.

11:26

This I saw sets out of this

11:28

fall cause. I think it's it's absolute. The.

11:30

Version and although I know it's meant

11:32

to the spirit of of with and

11:35

fun like a good jokes it contains

11:37

a couldn't live of troops mrs you

11:39

know the possible to legislate against by

11:41

the Nile The point Paul makes is

11:43

a very good one which is that

11:45

the damage to people with his health

11:47

fund sightseeing and have dinner well big

11:50

doesn't just come from it I physical

11:52

addictions, income from information and and and

11:54

you know and the well not fisher

11:56

soul says so it at odds I

11:58

mean I'd also like other is sort

12:00

of secondary close to make subscription to

12:03

the new pin compulsive impulsive out it's

12:05

a very assassinate a seat as soon

12:07

as you as soon as you are

12:09

you at link it to em us

12:11

as soon as you go into active

12:13

work ethic you harm because I would

12:15

be nice to make students to it

12:18

but I think it's about i'm fat

12:20

as a citizen it's very interesting is

12:22

that because when you're trapped between the

12:24

source of Valtteri and I you know

12:26

defend your right to say would and

12:28

once you know. Till the

12:31

death and the understanding

12:33

that that. Ah

12:35

freak that that right to freedom of expression

12:37

freedoms for yes is being abused malevolent li

12:40

do not yet one has been for a

12:42

long long time. This isn't just since breaks

12:44

it from before that this has gone on

12:46

for decades with that newspaper. What I love

12:49

about that question? Most of all because. You're.

12:51

Right? I'm You're right to imply that

12:53

it would be quite hard said system

12:56

Ziegler is the daily basis as a

12:58

separate or your my next part of

13:00

very human rights legislation. As a thought

13:03

experiment. It. The reason

13:05

it's such a britain quest is it makes

13:07

you think what would a world without the

13:09

mail be like Yes, Yes! And the of

13:11

course the answer is. So

13:13

much better? Yes, yes, so certainly

13:15

nice of yeah. Yeah, but

13:17

also they would a I mean it's. It's.

13:20

It will be nice not to have a

13:22

nice papers it cool judges and in of

13:24

papers run said crush the saboteurs. The give

13:27

you a little insight into how deep this

13:29

runs with because I know that. The.

13:32

Daily Mail whenever they were doing. This is go

13:34

back to the. Mid nineties and

13:36

early two thousand whenever they

13:38

were doing features about ordinary

13:40

people fraught with some gas

13:43

crisis or whatever. The

13:46

Daily Mirror would just send a

13:48

photographer along them photographed them as

13:50

as they were and Sasha Vienna.

13:52

The Daily Mail would send a

13:54

photographer. a stylist and

13:56

a makeup artist and if system

13:58

as them a man or the woman

14:01

had tattoos, for instance, they would be given

14:03

a long sleeve shirt to cover up the

14:05

tattoos, they would be clothed in kind of

14:07

gap kind of gear, you know, so they

14:09

all looked very, very middle England and conformed.

14:12

They all had to conform to Paul Dacre's

14:14

view of what a daily mail reader was,

14:16

whether or not they were daily mail readers.

14:19

And it's just such an insidious

14:21

insistence on a certain view. I

14:23

mean, what is that instead of

14:26

pre-digital deep faking, is it? It's

14:28

totally that. And it always amazed

14:30

me because sometimes we'd get the same stories,

14:32

you know, the same people in our set of

14:34

photographs, they would look, you know, just like they

14:36

were working out, you're holding on an estate, whatever,

14:39

no problem. But the males,

14:41

they were all polished up. And if you look through the

14:43

mail now, you know, don't have

14:45

to, but if you choose to, you'll see

14:47

everybody looks the same, you know, and I

14:50

find it creepy, you know, that worldview. It's

14:52

very odd as well because it has its

14:54

origins in Dacre's time in America where he

14:57

became entranced by the sort

14:59

of picket fence, you know,

15:02

suburban American Eisenhower lifestyle, which,

15:04

you know, is no longer really relevant

15:06

to America and certainly never really relevant

15:08

to this country. I mean, you know,

15:11

have suburbia and we've had, I

15:13

guess there was a past when that

15:15

kind of worldview was

15:18

widespread. But it is now

15:20

really a fictitious land. I mean, it's

15:22

a narnia in one man's head. That's

15:24

right. That's right. Well,

15:26

this won't be the last time we mentioned the Daily

15:28

Mail on this. Great question. Thank you

15:30

for topping all the questions. Excellent stuff. Excellent

15:32

stuff. Next question, please. After

15:34

Israel bombed the Iranian consulate in Damascus,

15:37

we now know that Iran's first action

15:39

was to approach members of the UN

15:41

Security Council for support with the resolution

15:43

condemning the attack on Iranian sovereign

15:45

territory. Apparently, the US, UK and

15:47

France rejected the idea and Iran

15:49

then chose the albeit telegraphed drone

15:51

attack. Do you think this was

15:53

a failure in Western diplomacy? Martin

15:55

in France, very good question. no

16:00

idea whether to say it's a failure in Western

16:02

diplomacy or not. All I know is that if

16:05

you're, if that's

16:08

true and that was the sequence of

16:10

events, then it seems uneven-handed to have

16:12

not facilitated that. Yeah, I mean, I

16:14

think there's a lot to say

16:16

here, which is that, I mean, the Iranians would

16:18

have made that request knowing

16:20

that it didn't stand a chance.

16:22

And also, you know, as a

16:24

state in violation of pretty much

16:26

every international law, it's

16:29

always pushing it when it goes

16:31

to the UN. I mean, so,

16:35

yeah, you could say it was a failure of

16:37

diplomacy, but I don't think, I mean, the other

16:39

thing is I don't actually think that such

16:42

a resolution would have stopped what happened. But

16:44

what happened, and this is where I think

16:47

I'm very cautiously optimistic

16:49

now, is, was a sort of

16:51

pageant where Iran

16:54

took this big leap, you know,

16:57

the first state-on-state attack on

16:59

Israel. Yeah. But it telegraphed

17:01

it, as Martin says, to

17:04

Biden and other intelligence

17:06

agencies around the world. So

17:08

pretty much the Iron Dome, the

17:10

Israeli Iron Dome, and help

17:13

from the Saudis in terms of

17:15

targeting, and the RAF was involved,

17:17

and Jordan, you know, actually

17:20

almost no damage was done to

17:22

Israel. Yeah. Then Netanyahu said, we're

17:24

going to respond. I mean, Biden

17:26

said, take the win, you know,

17:29

and then Netanyahu did a response. But, you

17:31

know, uncharacteristically, it was a very limited

17:34

response. Yeah. So for the first time

17:36

in this conflict, there was something where

17:38

very little damage was done. Both

17:41

sides were able to save face.

17:43

Yeah. And everyone went home feeling

17:45

a bit better. Now, you

17:48

know, I want to be very cautious here because this

17:50

is, there is still, this is still a tinder,

17:53

this area. But it was the first time

17:56

I thought, okay, so that, that lets Netanyahu

17:58

make, make a difference. Yeah. the

18:00

claim that Israel is secure. The

18:03

Iranians feel that they've taken

18:05

action over the Damascus

18:08

attack. And that

18:10

actually lowers the temperature, which

18:13

may be good news for Gaza. Just

18:16

to go back to the very

18:19

top of the question, what is it

18:21

about Israel that makes it unfeasible

18:25

for Iran to complain

18:27

about their territorial

18:29

land being bombed? It

18:31

doesn't. So

18:35

for

18:37

instance,

18:39

if any Western nation had their embassy blown

18:41

south of the Reans, then we would be going

18:43

to the UN. There would be a crisis.

18:48

The mistake is to think that it's only

18:52

Israel that gets protected in the

18:54

UN Security Council. I

18:56

mean, one of the problems with the UN Security Council is

18:59

that it's because of the veto power of

19:02

the permanent five members, it

19:04

becomes almost impossible to do

19:06

anything because Russia

19:09

or China say we're not having that. And

19:12

I think you

19:14

could say it's a failure in Western diplomacy

19:16

that Israel gets special treatment and so on

19:18

and so on. But actually, lots of countries

19:20

get special treatment. And the bigger question

19:22

in all of this, which I think we need to

19:25

take a step back at some point and look at is, is the

19:29

UN Security Council doing

19:31

its job as a Security Council for

19:33

the world? Or is it just a

19:35

place where special interests get pleaded? I

19:38

mean, on the Israeli front, the

19:40

US and UK usually stop

19:43

anything nasty happening to Israel. Russia

19:47

and China have their client states that

19:49

they protect. Isn't

19:51

it a bit anachronistic though that you've got a

19:53

handful of nations, what is it, five members with a

19:56

veto? What's

19:58

another couple who augment them? now

20:00

and again. Yeah, I mean there's always

20:02

a rolling membership. I mean my general

20:05

view, which is again, step back even

20:07

further, is that the UN needs

20:10

a massive overhaul because,

20:12

you know, it's gone from the

20:14

sort of initial idea of being

20:17

the post-war site of

20:20

meaningful change in negotiation

20:23

to being a bit like

20:25

a sort of the world's biggest NUS

20:27

meeting, you know, and it

20:29

ought actually to be, you know,

20:32

an organization of considerable might.

20:34

Yeah. And it is now

20:36

really an organization which people

20:39

use to cut deals and

20:42

it's not, it's not, it's

20:44

a much diminished force at

20:46

best. My favourite UN fact is

20:48

the UN building in Manhattan, you

20:51

know, the design of it, it's

20:53

got this enormous blank wall,

20:55

you know, like a 20-storey building, but one of

20:57

the walls is completely blank on either side. Yes.

20:59

You know why that is? I didn't know.

21:01

It's because no one can have a corner office,

21:04

so no one's got a better view than anyone

21:06

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21:08

point perfectly. Right, thank you Martin

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25:00

For that question, next question please. From

25:03

John H from Essex in

25:05

James Cleverley's constituency he writes,

25:08

I'm 34, I was a

25:10

card carrying Tory since the age of 13. I

25:13

resigned my membership post Brexit and spoilt

25:15

my ballot at the last election. I'm

25:18

gonna, I am gonna say what you've, I drew a

25:20

cock and balls because I'm an extremely mature person. All

25:22

right, thank you John. I'm a natural

25:24

One Nation Tory and the Lib Dems should

25:26

be default position but I've heard

25:28

nothing from them and all they do is say

25:31

Tories are basically bastards. I feel

25:33

weird contemplating voting Labour. Should I bite

25:35

the bullet and vote red or can

25:37

you recommend an alternative image to spoil

25:39

my ballot with? Should

25:43

he vote Labour and just be done with it?

25:45

Yes, I mean look here's

25:47

the problem and he's not unique in this which

25:49

is that a lot of

25:52

One Nation Tories feel very

25:54

unrepresented now because

25:57

in September 2019 Boris Johnson deprive

26:00

them all of the whip. Just

26:02

explain the phrase One Nation

26:04

Tori. Well One Nation Tori, actually

26:07

it didn't mean what it now means

26:10

in the book of the day, but it has

26:12

come to mean a moderate centrist

26:14

Tori who represents

26:16

the sort of compassionate Israeli

26:19

streak in conservatism,

26:22

and thinks that it's not great for

26:24

people to starve to death. Right,

26:27

radical position. Very, very

26:29

controversial view. And often

26:31

associated with being a

26:34

remainer and so on. And

26:36

because of that, in very

26:38

early in his premiership

26:41

before the election, Johnson

26:43

kicked out most of the

26:46

significant One Nation Toris, including

26:48

Rory Stewart, Ed Vasey, Dominic

26:50

Grieve, and some return, but

26:53

what that did was it kicked, it means there's

26:55

no real center of gravity now to the center

26:57

right, or heft, or a

26:59

coherent response to the populist right.

27:02

Maybe there will be,

27:04

but I don't see one in

27:07

the near future. At the same time,

27:09

and I

27:11

can see from John using the

27:14

language of vote red, he's not thrilled

27:17

to vote for Stama, but for the

27:20

reasons that many criticize Stama, he is

27:22

actually a very easy person for a

27:24

One Nation Tory to vote for. I

27:27

mean, he's a reliable,

27:31

effective person of

27:33

decent instincts, of background in public

27:35

service. You may not agree with absolutely

27:37

everything he says, but I

27:39

think it's pretty hard to

27:42

see why a One Nation Tory would

27:45

be betraying, at least their

27:47

beliefs if they voted for him. Yeah, here's

27:49

a thought experiment for you. Here's a thought

27:51

experiment for you. Imagine Corbyn had written out

27:53

the antisemitism and was still

27:56

the leader of the opposition, and

27:59

was facing... general election against

28:01

Rishi Sunak. Yes. Who

28:04

would win that contest? Sunak.

28:07

Yeah that's true isn't it? Yes

28:09

it is. I mean you know I know

28:12

that there is a constituency out

28:14

there in Good Morning that

28:17

thinks that Corbyn was robbed and if

28:19

you add up all his polls he's the

28:21

most successful Labour leader ever but he's patently

28:24

not the most successful Labour leader ever and

28:26

I'm very glad this

28:28

is a sort of citizen that the

28:30

Labour Party is breaking the game because

28:33

he risked

28:35

it. I always thought people

28:37

talk about party's extinction I'm not sure I always

28:39

think that's a bit dubious but he

28:42

did terrible terrible damage to the Labour Party.

28:44

Yeah yeah and I think it's the

28:47

fact that I think you're obviously right

28:49

that the Tories would go and absolutely

28:52

win easily at a counter probably

28:55

against a Corbyn. Yeah I mean

28:57

he was I

29:00

mean you know Johnson was a lucky

29:02

general in that you know he was

29:04

up against Corbyn now I think he

29:06

would he would probably

29:09

have beaten most Labour

29:11

leaders but the 2019 result was

29:13

as big as it was because of Corbyn.

29:16

Very good thank you John H from Essex.

29:19

Next question please. Should

29:22

the Remainers mourn Frank Field the Brexiteer who died

29:24

this week? Well I'm not sure

29:27

Remainers in particular should mourn because he was

29:29

a Brexiteer. He was a Brexiteer yeah but

29:31

I mean I think I guess Emma's point

29:33

is what you know should we

29:35

get over his Brexit his sympathy?

29:37

Yeah yeah I think we

29:40

should. I think so do I. I

29:42

think he was unlike Jeremy Corbyn who

29:44

there's certain analogies with Frank Field parallels

29:47

with Corbyn in you know difficult

29:49

awkward you know seem

29:52

to be very radical

29:56

in his in his solutions to you

29:58

know poverty and social injustice. He.

30:02

Failed to always really stood.

30:05

In a dignified manner I felt or yeah

30:07

I'm was it was a. Top

30:09

notch and P was bold and courageous.

30:11

And you know the fact that he

30:13

a i think he only lasted a

30:16

year did near the place tonight when

30:18

yes he and Gordon Brown last year.

30:21

Very, very strongly over what was the

30:23

best. Form Welfare Reform should

30:25

say yes and it is always the

30:27

He seemed to me to be. One

30:30

of those people who came into politics

30:33

for exactly the right reason which was

30:35

to definitely to make the world a

30:37

better place and you know Egypt Sensitive,

30:39

very poor constituency in Birkenhead to forces

30:41

forty bloody use as you know and

30:43

you don't let me tell you do

30:46

not that the people of Birkenhead before

30:48

his money and I I I I

30:50

liked him and noom and I was

30:52

dismayed when he supported breaks it but

30:54

I I still put a lot of

30:56

credit on the ledgers. It were because

30:58

he heads sort for public for poverty.

31:01

Reduction for decades yes you know with

31:04

this from the single minded devotion which

31:06

is really impressive you know site in

31:08

a way. Ah, he was one of

31:11

the godfather says new Labour because he

31:13

told the militants butter on his own

31:15

constituency at you know often in a

31:17

violent situations or needles he the also

31:20

ah stood his ground against anti semitism

31:22

during The Corbyn Is. so he was.

31:24

You know he was d selected over

31:27

over Briggs hit and then stood as

31:29

an independent twenty nineteen. Didn't didn't

31:31

win this which was this. sad

31:33

endings as pointed threats. To

31:38

their he was he was remarkable figure and

31:40

the thing i'd pass him which others might

31:42

not but he he was very by pods

31:44

and he lot in i had friends all

31:46

over the common it is he he believes

31:49

in. The. Policy In

31:51

Democracy. In and talking to

31:53

people and you that that?

31:55

That's it. off at a

31:57

polarized era. That's. Frowned upon.

32:00

But actually it was very natural to him

32:02

to sit down and the tea room next

32:04

to a conservative Mp and save get was

32:06

going on. What's the neediest? and yes, some

32:08

people may. Despise. That's about

32:10

it. but I think it's an attractive

32:12

characters in the empire. I liked his

32:15

awkwardness. I think that's out there, the

32:17

fact that he refused to confirm and

32:19

and he wouldn't when when it when

32:21

that clash with Brown happened, he wasn't

32:23

He wasn't there to be. Ah, you

32:25

know, soft, soaked, not so source of

32:27

right. That's it. I'm often at A.

32:30

He was also very very funny. Yeah

32:32

was the private Yeah. extremely funny. I

32:34

remember him. Industry does date things. He

32:36

came to my thirtieth birthday party No

32:38

Way City and them. He a charm

32:40

the pants of everyone just made them

32:43

will often in a business license. So

32:45

what is either your thirties because I

32:47

I was sitting be the Tuscan journalists

32:49

were idea I'm noom well alight sim

32:51

yeah. I also knew that he would

32:53

be the you know the kind of

32:55

guess that would get on with. You

32:58

know relatives as well as and and he did.

33:00

He was just a nice a very nice guy

33:02

brilliance. well. Much. Missed and mom's

33:04

five to two months for sure.

33:07

But. Look Frank Field, where have you

33:09

have? yeah, one more question I

33:11

think ah from Nellie J. and

33:13

Ladbroke Grove. The southern rock and

33:15

roll question some Smith is going

33:17

to perform at. The Problems: are

33:19

the two mats outraged, relaxed or

33:21

indifference? Are

33:25

you outraged, relaxed or a different

33:27

Spices I'm of the three albums

33:29

that not writes ah I'm pretty

33:32

different. Ah, I'm Sam Smith fascinates

33:34

me because they are a. Very

33:37

successful than. Risk

33:39

either truck trying to be very risque. I

33:41

guess is is what makes a different which

33:43

is that I wish someone would tell them

33:45

that. What? They're doing

33:48

is not really that risque.

33:51

I. Mean. After all, He

33:54

has a stones were in drag in

33:56

the sixties illness is standing in the

33:58

Cetera thing with a single. They paid

34:00

in will drag on the most. Can a

34:02

famous on the and ridiculed cost in some

34:04

Smith Wolf is that sort of black? yeah

34:07

the inflatable inflatable the books put. that seems

34:09

to me to be a less good version

34:11

of what David Bowie somebody that can you

34:13

know and a bow. He was wearing some

34:15

very nice rocks in the and eleven here

34:17

so you know it's with an good either.

34:20

Then there's the such as Somebody videos of

34:22

some sort of some their videos of are

34:24

you supposed to very scary but then they're

34:26

not as risque is Frankie goes Hollywood's relax

34:28

much will attack this up. At say you

34:31

know it's Ninety Three tests a former

34:33

member well I was. So what's the

34:35

years I I walk around with a

34:37

frankie says the feel that I'm the

34:39

only place I think the idea sensitive,

34:41

the problems is actually and the moto

34:43

to but that's completely. Ah

34:45

makes sense. I couldn't care less because

34:47

I couldn't care less about the drones

34:49

down to just go back to our

34:52

conversation about Englishness a find it a

34:54

find the whole time as extravagant patriotism

34:56

of it. Absolutely brilliant man. Who do

34:58

you do you hate the from the

35:00

lottery or that have had just called

35:02

that? I know I just I just

35:04

like that. Very. Nice.

35:07

Goes with her with a cousin that

35:09

they sit in in Hyde park. Nothing

35:11

on open bottles of. Put. Main

35:13

or whatever they drink and of sorts

35:15

of she is as as Jerusalem. Some

35:17

do whatever they said, not only a

35:19

couple. nothing to do with book so

35:21

whatever some Smith does that doesn't flitter

35:23

on my right across the bay to

35:25

some I don't feel sad by as

35:27

well. So there you go say at

35:29

basically go ahead Sam, I think it's

35:31

a message from the don't months. So

35:33

sad. Enjoy! Prom. thank

35:36

you knowledge a that saw last

35:38

question from this week's and if

35:41

you've got questions or any feedback

35:43

indeed about the show please email

35:45

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