0:07

From the team at CTS . This is the

0:09

Time Crunch Cyclist podcast , our

0:11

show dedicated to answering your training

0:13

questions and providing actionable

0:15

advice to help you improve your

0:17

performance even if you're strapped for time

0:19

. I'm your host , coach Adam Pulford

0:22

, and I'm one of the over 50 professional

0:24

coaches who make up the team at CTS

0:26

. In each episode , I draw

0:28

on our team's collective knowledge , other

0:30

coaches and experts in the field to provide

0:33

you with the practical ways to

0:35

get the most out of your training and ultimately

0:37

become the best cyclist that you can be

0:39

. Now on to our show . Now

0:42

on to our show

0:45

. Welcome

0:48

back , time Crunch fans . I'm your host , coach

0:50

Adam Pulford . We're back with CTS

0:53

coach and premier

0:55

coach . Might I add , rene Eastman , to

0:57

answer more audience questions . Today's

1:03

topic you guessed it , renee zone two training . We actually have a lot

1:05

to cover today , so let me just read

1:07

the original question that the audience

1:09

member wrote in with and sit back

1:11

, because it's a bit of a long one . So

1:14

the original question

1:16

is hey gang , I

1:19

have a question about surprise zone

1:21

two , specifically the relationship

1:23

between power , heart rate and

1:26

breathing indicators of whether

1:28

you're in zone two or not . It's

1:30

a two part question . First

1:32

, is it correct that you shouldn't use power to

1:34

determine whether you're in zone two , because

1:37

you might be in zone two at a given power

1:39

210 Watts , let's say at

1:41

the start of your workout , but creep into zone

1:44

three at the same power

1:46

late in the workout as

1:48

your heart rate creeps up . Second

1:51

, if you shouldn't

1:53

use power to determine whether you're in zone

1:55

two , which is better

1:57

indicator heart rate or so-called

2:00

talk test whether you're breathing easy

2:02

enough and you can still talk . And

2:05

I've asked because I noticed

2:07

toward the end of my workouts , usually around

2:10

two hours , that I can pass the talk test at

2:12

higher heart rates than

2:15

at the beginning of my workouts . In other words , I

2:17

get deeper into the workout , my heart rate creeps

2:19

up , but my breathing doesn't get harder , at

2:22

least not super

2:24

hard . As a result , near the end

2:26

of the workout , I'm in the situation where

2:28

my power says I'm in zone two , my heart rate says

2:31

that I've creeped up into zone three and my breathing

2:33

says that I'm still in zone two , which

2:35

should I take as the correct indicator

2:37

? Thank you all . The podcast is pure

2:39

gold , and that's coming from Ruth Renee

2:43

. I have my own thoughts , but how

2:45

about you take the first stab at this one ?

2:48

Well , thanks for having me back , adam

2:50

. We did a whole series

2:53

on Zone

2:55

2 and lab

2:57

testing and that's probably why you brought me in

2:59

to answer this question . I do run our physiology

3:02

lab . I'm all about the zones and

3:05

the lactate levels and things like

3:07

that . So , um

3:09

, this is a great question because

3:12

it is the application

3:14

of the data

3:17

that you get either from your own testing

3:19

or from the lab and it's putting

3:21

it into practice and

3:25

I don't think there is a simple

3:27

one answer . You know

3:29

I want to lean toward what

3:32

I tell my athletes when I have them you

3:34

know , in quote , do a zone two ride

3:36

is . I usually prescribe that by heart rate Because

3:40

the physiological

3:44

response to the work that

3:46

you're doing . But before

3:49

we even get too far down

3:51

that , I want to ask

3:53

Ruth , like , how old

3:55

are her zones ? Like , when did you set

3:57

them ? Did you set that zone two power

4:00

from your best 20 minute

4:02

power of last year or

4:04

have you recently updated that

4:06

at your current fitness level ? Same

4:09

thing with heart rates . Heart

4:11

rates tend to change less than

4:13

power does as you go through

4:16

a season and you're in better shape or

4:18

maybe not at your best fitness

4:21

, but certainly heart rate declines with age

4:23

and over time I do

4:25

see aerobic heart rate levels

4:29

changing , that people can do a lot more

4:31

work at lower heart rate . So

4:35

number one are

4:37

your zones up to date ? Are they

4:39

current ? Have you tested ? Certainly

4:41

within the last 90 days , maybe

4:44

even in the last 30 days , depending

4:46

on where you are in your training .

4:48

Yeah , and that's the simple fix and I

4:50

would . I would start there because I'll even admit

4:52

, renee , I'm you know , when

4:54

we do some field testing with with athletes

4:56

and stuff , I'm pretty quick to update the power

4:58

zones and make sure that we're on track and all that kind of stuff

5:01

. And I sometimes don't always

5:03

update the heart rate zones because typically

5:05

it , like you said , it doesn't

5:08

change all that much . But if that goes , you

5:10

know , a couple of years down the road , you

5:13

know max heart rate as well . Well , whatever

5:15

, that is right , but heart rate tends to

5:17

come down . So if you haven't updated for

5:20

a while in whether we're looking at training

5:22

peaks or some other platform or Zwift or whatever

5:24

, making

5:29

sure that you know these zones are lining up , and if you haven't updated

5:31

heart rate zones for three to five years , I mean that's a glaringly obvious

5:33

one . So anyway , quick

5:35

fix .

5:36

Right . I think it's also fair to mention , as we

5:38

do , percentages

5:41

on field testing , percentages

5:49

on field testing , that those are based on averages of we tend to see the top of zone two

5:51

around 75% of somebody's FTP . And bear

5:53

in mind , if you're doing a 20 minute test , we're estimating

5:56

FTP , we're not measuring FTP . We're estimating

5:59

it that it's 95% of your

6:01

20 minute power . Then we're estimating

6:03

that zone two is , or the top of

6:05

zone two is , 75 percent of that number

6:07

. So there's a lot of variables in

6:09

there that I see it all

6:11

the time where I've actually tested

6:13

somebody in their lab and the top

6:16

of their zone two comes out at

6:18

65

6:20

, 68 , less than 75

6:22

percent of their FTP . I'd say that's more

6:24

common that I see somebody's actual

6:27

LT1 , the first kick

6:29

up above baseline of their lactate

6:31

much lower

6:34

than 75% . So I

6:36

think on the power side of things

6:39

not so much in the heart rate , the heart rate tend to

6:41

track , I think , a little bit better but

6:43

just

6:45

based off of those raw percentages , 75%

6:49

might be above your actual

6:52

top of your zone

6:54

2 . So that's another

6:56

factor in the maybe that 210

6:58

watts is too high

7:00

and then kind

7:03

of another layer to that is

7:05

if you listened to the last podcast

7:08

I did . Don't be a zone two hero . The

7:10

top of zone two is not better . The top

7:12

of zone two is like butt upright

7:14

to zone three . So if you're riding at the top of

7:16

zone two , even if your zone two is calculated

7:19

really well , you are probably

7:21

going to drift up over the time because

7:23

it's not a flip of the switch the

7:26

top of your zone two and in zone three . There's

7:28

a dial in there and you know there's

7:30

a gradient of you

7:32

know , five , 10 watts above or five , 10

7:34

watts below on a given day . Maybe

7:37

you're more solidly in zone

7:39

two , more solidly in zone three . So just

7:43

based on what she's telling me

7:45

here , you know double check your zones

7:47

. But at the end of the day it sounds like you're

7:49

riding these rides a little

7:51

bit too hard if you're seeing

7:53

a fair bit of cardiac drift . Cardiac

7:55

drift meaning your power is constant

7:58

and then you see your heart rate just elevate

8:00

over time and drift out of your

8:02

zone .

8:03

Yeah , 100% agree with that , because

8:05

in that true zone to ride

8:07

we don't want to see cardiac drift . That's an indicator

8:10

that the aerobic system needs more development

8:12

right .

8:13

Exactly .

8:14

And so I

8:17

would say this is a point where so , do I follow heart rate or do

8:19

I follow power ? To answer Ruth's question directly heart rate or do I follow power

8:21

? To answer Ruth's question directly , this

8:24

is where I would say I I vary a little

8:26

bit from Renee , even though , like

8:30

heart rate , following heart rate as a guide

8:32

, that's

8:39

not bad for my athletes . I'm going to educate them that power first rate of perceived effort , strongly

8:41

in line with that , and there should be this matching

8:43

there . And then I'm going to watch heart rate as another

8:46

indicator . Okay , but that perceived effort

8:48

for a zone to ride , we're talking

8:50

like a three to five out of 10

8:52

. And so let's just say four

8:54

out of 10 , 10 being a max

8:56

effort , one being like the easiest

8:59

spin you've ever maybe done in your life

9:01

. We want to target a four

9:03

out of 10 . And if

9:05

I prescribe that 60%

9:07

of FTP and I'm just going to call

9:09

it that right Cause when I prescribe

9:12

for most of our athletes , when we did the other

9:14

podcast , when we do a range , most

9:16

of our athletes will just go to the upper end of the range

9:19

. So I've been prescribing

9:21

more like okay , 60% make it feel like a four

9:23

out of 10 . When

9:25

we're aligned like that , the heart rate takes

9:27

care of itself . So it's fine , you can go by

9:30

a guy by that . However , what I , what

9:32

you should know about heart rate is is has

9:34

a variability on any given

9:36

day of plus one to five beats per

9:38

minute , and that's not heart rate variability

9:40

. That is variability

9:42

within the beats per minute , and that

9:44

is due to stress , hydration

9:47

, dehydration , heat

9:49

, cold , caffeination

9:52

, fueling

9:54

I mean a lot of things right , including

9:56

just being super stoked . Right , you shouldn't

9:58

be probably super stoked in a zone two

10:00

sort of ride , but if you're in a , in a race setting

10:02

, that heart rate will increase . So

10:12

my point is is I'm not going to hang my hat on the most variable thing out there , because

10:14

rate of perceived effort has shown to be just as valid , if not more

10:16

so , than heart rate , and in line

10:18

with power . In the end , we want that Holy Trinity

10:20

of all three . So to

10:22

your point , ruth , renee

10:25

gave you a very simple , very solid

10:27

answer Sure , follow the heart rate . I'm

10:29

going to complex it and say all three and

10:32

tune into your perceived effort , and I think

10:34

we're going to have a better result

10:36

in that way . So

10:39

sorry to push back on you , renee , but

10:41

man , I just

10:43

want to throw out there that heart rate

10:45

does have a lot of that variability to consider

10:48

and in my practice I

10:50

see people making excuses for their

10:52

heart rate all the time and

10:54

that's an excuse for them to ride or

10:56

run .

10:57

Harder is valid

11:00

that you know they're always

11:02

coming back with the heart rate elevated because there's

11:04

always some reason . And

11:06

you know , I think if you can effective

11:09

, if you can honestly use RPE

11:11

, then that's fantastic . I

11:14

do a lot of lab testing . We . We ask

11:17

people RPE all the time during

11:19

their test and they're like five , five , five , five

11:21

, five , ten , like they , just like

11:23

for sure as

11:25

we're going up their lactate . They're like

11:27

four millimoles and they're like oh , it's five

11:29

, like people they're . They

11:31

, they want to be tough a little bit , like

11:34

, oh , it's fine , it's

11:36

a five and they're

11:38

breathing , they're breathing . So you know

11:40

, if you can be disciplined , rpe

11:42

is great . The

11:44

reason why I'm okay with using

11:46

heart rate and yeah

11:49

, I'm going to give somebody some context for

11:51

that heart rate but if

11:53

the goal of the day is

11:55

I want to get max fat

11:57

oxidation , I really want to spend time in

11:59

zone two . Going easier

12:02

is not a problem . Zone

12:07

two , going easier is not a problem . So using that heart rate as a guide is going to force

12:10

them into easier . Where the RPE ? You can lie to yourself on RPE

12:12

and then with the wattage as

12:14

you're noting , no matter what range somebody

12:16

you give them , they're going to go towards the top

12:19

. So if they're going to the top

12:21

of their heart rate range , I know that's going

12:23

to keep them closer to

12:25

that peak bad oxidation , if

12:27

that's the goal . But that's not

12:29

always the goal , right .

12:31

It's not always the goal . And I

12:34

would say , before

12:36

we move on from that , a couple other things

12:38

on heart rate is , if we are going

12:41

long , right , and for a time crunched athlete

12:43

, a two-hour ride may

12:45

be fairly long on the weekend , two or three hours

12:48

and that's going to cause stress

12:51

and strain . Stress is kind of this

12:53

global thing that we talk about in

12:55

the way of how stressed aerobically

12:57

or anaerobically or whatever that we are within

13:00

the workout . But then there's also this thing and I

13:02

covered this on a couple of different podcasts

13:04

, including with Dr Steven Seiler but strain

13:07

is like more internal

13:09

strain and we can see that pretty well in

13:12

heart rate . Again , it has variability

13:14

and there's a lot of factors that can

13:16

cause that strain which causes a tick up . But

13:18

if it is heat , if it is dehydration

13:20

, if it is fatigue , if

13:23

, if you see your heart rate going

13:25

up and you say , oh , but

13:28

my power is the same , but if you're going

13:30

by heart rate , you're going to bring that down and you

13:32

might go into , say , 55% for

13:35

the FTP for your power target

13:37

, that's also fine . So

13:40

I like , and that may go

13:42

again . It doesn't go against what I'm saying

13:44

. I think in the end we want

13:46

all of these factors to be kind

13:48

of looked at and touched on and then a

13:51

highly aware , educated athlete

13:53

can make that decision on the fly of

13:55

okay , my heart

13:57

rate's up for these reasons , how much

13:59

should I bring it down ? Or my heart rate's up for

14:01

this reason ? But coach Renee

14:03

said you know what we're just out to like , get

14:05

the volume , so do it like

14:08

, and we're just going to do work today . And

14:11

that's where , say , some of the metabolic

14:13

aspect may go out , cause we're just we want

14:15

to do work . So let's talk about . Let's

14:17

talk about that a little

14:20

bit now , because my

14:22

question to you is isn't stress a good thing

14:24

? Isn't that what we're doing to our athletes

14:26

when we tell them to get out there and do some work ?

14:29

Yeah , I mean we do want to tax our

14:31

system . Stress

14:34

plus rest equals growth . Tax

14:36

the system , then rest , then grow

14:38

, and you know the

14:41

. Should I back

14:43

off the power or hold the

14:45

power steady ? Depends on those goals

14:47

of the day that I was alluding to . That

14:49

, if the goal is

14:51

, I really need to accumulate as much

14:54

time in my highly

14:56

fat oxidative state today , or

14:59

maybe just make this a less stressful

15:01

aerobic session , less

15:03

stressful meaning you , stressful meaning . Zone two

15:05

If

15:07

the goal is I want to improve

15:10

my performance

15:12

within the fitness level I

15:14

have now , then doing

15:18

maybe a constant power and

15:20

let that heart rate show the

15:23

know , show the strain , because you know your

15:25

strain's going up , as maybe you are , maybe

15:27

coach , or you decided that I'm

15:29

going to do a ride right at 70

15:32

, 75% of FTP today because

15:34

I need to accumulate 2000

15:37

kilojoules in two

15:39

hours . Yeah , or

15:42

?

15:42

yeah , no , no for sure .

15:43

I mean like four hours . Two hours , yeah , or yeah

15:45

, I mean like four hours two hours .

15:47

Yeah , I was going to say it depends on the rider , right , because

15:49

a thousand kilojoules an hour , that's doable

15:51

for some people . And what's

15:54

fun about that , renee , is I've

15:57

got workouts that I do for that and I'm going to

15:59

give them like a normalized power target , um

16:01

, to do that right over time and

16:04

you can see some changes over time

16:06

. Because one thing that you talked about where you

16:08

kind of scratched the surface on , was aerobic decoupling

16:10

, which can you

16:12

define that for us and

16:15

then tell us how to use that ?

16:17

The decouple is when

16:20

heart rate and power are no longer

16:22

linear , that if you're holding a constant

16:25

power over time that

16:27

you would see your heart rate elevate up

16:29

or

16:32

the . I guess the reverse

16:34

of that is you're holding a constant heart

16:36

rate and then to hold that constant

16:39

heart rate you had to drop power , heart

16:47

rate , you had to drop power . So they decouple over time . In the metric

16:50

that we're looking at in training , peaks

16:52

is at PWHR , power versus heart rate , and

16:54

a significant

16:56

decoupling would be over 5%

16:59

. You have to look at a length

17:01

, certainly a length of time over

17:03

20 minutes . You have to look at a length , certainly a length of time over 20

17:05

minutes . So that's what we're talking about when we see the

17:07

nonlinear response of that

17:09

heart rate and power .

17:10

Yeah , so you can take a zone two

17:13

ride , ruth . This

17:18

is one tool that you can use to determine whether this is actually occurring or not . Because , again

17:20

, like when I read your question , I was like well , how much did your heart rate

17:22

tick up ? How much time in zone three was it

17:24

? Was it a minute , was it five minutes ? Was it the

17:27

last 20 minutes of your ride that your heart rate was up

17:29

? And then what did your power do ? What you can do

17:31

, ruth , is take the whole ride

17:33

on training peaks . Look at your aerobic

17:36

decoupling , which is PWR , colon

17:38

HR , and it expresses

17:40

in a percentage . If

17:45

it's under 5% , good to go . I don't think that you need to change that , ruth

17:47

. However , if it's like 6% , 10% , okay

17:49

, now we have some aerobic work to

17:52

achieve . Now back to what

17:54

Renee was talking about at a high

17:56

kilojoule per hour sort of goal , or normalized

17:58

power , or just like , ride hard

18:00

for three hours . The first time you ride

18:03

hard for three , your first hard three hour ride

18:05

, you probably will decouple

18:07

. That's fine , I want that to

18:09

occur . Stress is a good thing . Stress plus rest

18:11

equals adaptation . But the

18:13

next time you do that three hour ride , same loop

18:15

, same conditions , check

18:17

your aerobic decoupling again , because

18:19

what , hopefully , what you'll find

18:21

is that you either decouple less or

18:24

don't decouple at all , and

18:26

that's a great kind of metric

18:28

to check in to make sure that

18:31

the aerobic system is going just fine

18:33

. And it's also it's a

18:35

great method to get your mind

18:37

out of to improve

18:39

you need to do more than zone two . I

18:41

think a lot of people just they . They see

18:44

the zone two hype , um , they , they

18:46

get super excited about all the mitochondria

18:48

building in their system . But it's like you

18:50

need all zones . It's not just zone two

18:53

that's doing . That's like pushing

18:55

the needle forward here .

18:56

Unless I'm super crazy , renee , I don't know well

18:59

, you might be super , but not on this

19:01

point . You know , and

19:04

to that end , if I

19:06

might just in general use

19:09

a little bit more heart rate based and

19:11

you know , zone to focus in

19:14

, like the in quotes , base

19:16

phase or base

19:18

preparation phase you know

19:21

, a lot of times , november , december , maybe

19:23

January for people , and then , as

19:25

we're you know , turn the corner and

19:27

people are getting ready for their first event

19:30

now and now there's

19:32

definitely occasion and I've given

19:35

this direction to a couple of guys who are racing this

19:37

month Like zone

19:39

two is not out the window , but we

19:41

are no longer like we don't have to stay in zone

19:43

two . It's not out the window , but we are no

19:45

longer like we don't have to stay in zone two . I

19:49

want you to kind of like do the best three hours that you can today , because that's

19:51

what you're getting ready for , that best three or four hours , you know , doing longer

19:53

events that now we've got to put it into

19:55

application and put it together

19:58

. And , yes , that you are going to see those

20:00

stressors initially and

20:02

you're going to see a lot of decoupling . Decoupling

20:10

is a it is a sign of stress . I'd also interject about the signs of stress . You mentioned the caffeine

20:12

, and the temperature and the heat and the things like that . Also , like

20:15

the fueling and hydration . Maybe this

20:17

is a good sign that you need to

20:19

do better with your fueling and hydration

20:21

that , if you're you know're running

20:24

out of glycogen and getting

20:27

dehydrated , you're going to see that

20:29

decoupling even more . So there's

20:31

more factors than what we talked

20:34

about with make sure your zones are set right

20:36

and how many shots of espresso

20:38

that you had before you started 17

20:40

.

20:42

But it's a super valid point

20:44

, renee , and I think then you know

20:46

, if you're a coached athlete

20:49

, it opens up the door for a lot more questions . If

20:51

you're a self-coached athlete , it opens up

20:53

the question for more evaluation because you

20:55

decoupled . Why did you decouple

20:57

, my ? My point is you

21:00

decoupled , sure

21:02

, maybe you need some more aerobic work , but if

21:04

you did your best three hours and you decoupled

21:06

, but you didn't take in one carbohydrate

21:08

, that's a separate issue yeah

21:10

because that's a hard ride , right , um

21:13

and so now you

21:15

know we've kind of come out of zone two

21:17

. So I guess the the intellectual

21:19

question is can we

21:21

improve this aspect

21:23

? Can we improve our aerobic decoupling , or lack thereof

21:25

, with more than zone two ? Can

21:27

we do it with intensity ? Can we do with higher intensity

21:30

?

21:31

yeah , I think that you could see some improvements

21:33

. You know tempo work , longer

21:35

tempo work . You know that I'll

21:38

. I will look at that . Aerobic decoupling

21:40

, uh , a lot with whether

21:43

it's just that moderate

21:45

, let's say around 85% of FTP

21:47

zone . Three long

21:50

, 20 , 30 , 45

21:52

minute plus minute tempo

21:54

session . I might

21:56

use that as a criteria of how

21:58

long do I need to go in these tempo

22:01

segments . Can we keep the decoupling Like

22:04

okay , maybe you can keep

22:06

your decoupling under 5% at

22:08

a 20-minute effort ? Well then , try 25

22:10

. See what happens . Try 30 . Like

22:12

you know , progressing within that , because maybe

22:15

you like an hour is just like too much

22:17

to start with . I

22:19

would say a little bit with sweet spot too . I mean , can sweet

22:21

spot just that one tick up ? So

22:29

those two workouts

22:31

, we can accumulate a lot of

22:33

volume and we are staying predominantly

22:36

aerobic .

22:37

Yeah , and I think you know we've talked about kilojoules

22:41

, tempo sweet spot kind of

22:43

these sort of workouts , and they just get longer

22:46

. Right , I've talked about the

22:48

workouts that I call fatigue resistance

22:50

training , where I go back and I look

22:52

at , uh , like races and hard

22:54

group rides , I look at the kilojoules achieved

22:57

in those rides , I look at the normalized

22:59

power and the average power and then I just try

23:01

to replicate that in in solo training . Typically

23:04

it's going to be more aerobic rather

23:06

than a group ride or a race that has a lot more anaerobic

23:09

kind of impact . And so I'll

23:11

err on the side of like less normalized or

23:13

the kind of like the lower end of the normalized power

23:15

. Let's just say , for two hours

23:17

, go do the work , go do

23:19

that kilojoule , and it's not interval based

23:21

, there's no on off , it's like kind of

23:23

on all the time , and then see

23:26

this aerobic decoupling and that's where we get again

23:28

. We get out of zone two . There's a ton of applicability

23:31

there and , ruth , this could

23:33

be something that you use as opposed to just

23:35

staying in zone two and waiting for that heart

23:37

rate to come down . Maybe you

23:39

push on the gas pedal a little bit more , do more

23:42

work , because that's going to induce more

23:44

stress . Then you rest , then you get better

23:46

. But you're still seeing sub threshold on

23:49

the training .

23:50

I do work out similar to what you were

23:52

talking about . You know whether it's a kilojoule

23:54

goal or you know having , you know kind of stay at a constant

23:57

power . But one of the

23:59

twists I like in my fatigue resistance

24:01

is you know start maybe

24:03

60 , 65% of FTP

24:05

and then finish at that

24:07

top of zone two and you know kind

24:09

of a negative split ride

24:12

if you will or finish the ride with 20

24:14

, 30 minutes of , you know , solid zone three

24:16

, you know pushing

24:19

that fatigue resistance .

24:21

Yep , and when you do that , you can still

24:23

use the aerobic decoupling metric

24:25

to ensure that everything's fine . Because

24:27

if you push on the gas pedal your car , you

24:29

would assume that it goes faster . It accelerates . Same

24:31

thing with power and heart rate . If you push on the gas pedal of your car , you would assume that it goes faster , it accelerates . Same thing with power

24:34

and heart rate . If you have push on the gas pedal

24:36

or the power of the cranks , I produce more

24:38

power , the heart rate should go up and if

24:40

you do a progressive workout

24:42

like that , the decoupling is zero in a

24:44

well-trained athlete . Yeah

24:46

, that's true , yeah , so that

24:48

. So those are good tools , but that progress

24:51

, the aerobic progressive workout that you just

24:53

described and I've had Tim Cusick

24:55

and Jim Miller and other coaches on here we talk

24:57

about that that's far better than

25:00

doing what pretty much every master's

25:02

athlete does , which is sprint out

25:04

of the parking lot , get it and

25:06

then get tired power drops heart rate and I stay high .

25:09

You can almost guarantee decoupling if you

25:11

spend the first 30 minutes of a two

25:13

, three hour ride at tempo . You

25:15

can , you can almost guarantee it above .

25:17

Yeah , oh , for sure , For sure , and that's an internal

25:19

strain . So to to take this thing

25:21

home , Renee , I think to answer

25:23

Ruth's question , like

25:26

holistically and entirely

25:28

, it's like do the simple kills first

25:30

and just make sure that training zones

25:32

, both heart rate power , are all

25:35

matched up properly . Rate of perceived

25:37

effort my opinion , super valid

25:39

, but you need to work on your awareness and your honesty

25:42

within yourself to do that . But that's the Holy

25:44

Trinity , in my opinion , for monitoring exercise

25:46

performance . Additionally , what's

25:49

the goal of the workout ? Is

25:51

it metabolic , like you talked about , or

25:54

is it doing work , something more like race

25:56

specific or event specific ? Or if you want to induce

25:58

a ton of strain , then I'd say some of this

26:01

like super hardcore

26:03

zone to low aerobic decouplings

26:05

. It goes out the window , Like I want to stress

26:07

you and get you fitter , Okay . So

26:10

these those are my kind of takeaways

26:12

from this episode . What else do you want

26:14

to stick in there , Renee ?

26:17

We spent a fair bit of time talking about the

26:20

coupling and the heart rate drift and

26:22

things like that . And , just to emphasize

26:24

, we've been talking about steady

26:26

rides this whole . Time that

26:29

you cannot take , you can't really

26:31

take these like to the group ride . Time

26:35

that you cannot take , you can't really take these like to the group ride . Because when

26:37

you see the more sporadic power , the decoupling doesn't really , you know , hold true

26:39

, and I don't think that's what ruth question

26:41

centered on . She was talking more

26:43

. You know , sounds like a zone , like a purposeful

26:46

zone to ride . And for that

26:48

purposeful zone to ride which

26:50

to me means I want that metabolic

26:52

adaptation or just not to put a

26:55

high amount of stress on my body

26:57

, you know one thing would be like yeah , look

26:59

at heart rate , of course , perceived effort

27:01

, you know it's not . These

27:03

zones aren't a flip of the switch

27:05

, they are a dial . So it's like giving

27:08

yourself a couple of beats above

27:10

that , that's no big deal . Yourself

27:15

, a couple of beats above that , that's no big deal . But when you

27:17

see that constant rise up and then you're just pegged at , you know , uh , you know top

27:19

of zone three heart rate , or you know , even

27:21

into zone four , that's a sign of stress

27:24

your body did , was a ride longer

27:27

than your body was capable of that

27:29

day , or was there heat stress

27:31

? Or lack

27:34

of fueling , lack of hydration , stress , that

27:36

those to me are indications to slow

27:38

down that take

27:41

the excitement and

27:43

maybe the shots of espresso , heart

27:45

rate response out of it . If

27:47

your body , if you're overheated , if

27:49

you're dehydrated , if you're glycogen depleted , those

27:52

are all reasons to slow down , in my opinion

27:54

.

27:55

Or a poor night's sleep right .

27:56

You're unrested yeah .

27:58

Yeah , yeah . No , those

28:00

are great summary points and you

28:02

know , ruth , again like this is a super

28:05

awesome question , everybody's in a zone two

28:07

and I was like , oh , zone two , here we go again . But

28:09

these are super valid points that I think every

28:11

athlete uh is is struggling

28:14

with and is in his questioning as we learn

28:16

more about it . So I want to thank you for writing

28:18

that in and if you're listening to this and

28:21

you want to give us feedback on how

28:23

we answered , cause I think we answered it well

28:25

, I hope we answered it well , but if you have any other questions

28:27

, write in and we'll um , we'll

28:29

patch that up into our audience members . If

28:32

this spurs on more questions that

28:34

you have , head on over to train rightcom

28:36

backslash podcast and click

28:38

on ask a training question . That gets sent directly

28:40

to me and I work with awesome coaches like Renee

28:42

to answer those questions here on the

28:45

podcast . So , that said , renee , thank

28:47

you once again for joining us . Your

28:49

uh wisdom is is brilliant

28:51

and I know everybody learns from you when you hop

28:53

on the pod with me .

28:55

Thanks , adam , thanks for having me back and I

28:57

look forward

28:59

to all the follow-up zone . Two

29:01

questions , because I know we're going to get them .

29:03

Oh yeah , they're coming . They're coming , all right , thanks

29:06

, renee . Thanks

29:09

for joining us on the Time Crunch Cyclist podcast

29:11

. We hope you enjoyed the show . If you want

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