0:01

This podcast contains allegations of

0:03

sexual and family violence. It

0:05

won't be suitable for everyone. You

0:07

can contact the National Sexual Assault, Domestic

0:10

and Family Violence Counselling Service

0:13

on 1800RESPECT. This

0:16

is episode seven of The Teacher's

0:18

Accuser. It's brought to you by The

0:20

Australian. Christopher

0:26

Michael Dawson, you did murder Lynette

0:28

Dawson. It's in the making.

0:31

Chris Dawson. Chris Dawson. Chris Dawson.

0:33

Chris Dawson found guilty of murdering

0:35

wife Lynette at Bayview 40 years ago. A

0:39

four decade campaign for justice has

0:41

come to an extraordinary end. I

0:43

find you guilty. The former school

0:45

teacher is destined to die behind

0:48

bars. Mr Dawson, I sentence

0:50

you to imprisonment for 24 years. My

0:54

name is Hedley

0:55

Thomas and I'm a journalist with a particular

0:57

interest in podcast investigations

1:00

into the murders of women in Australia. Last

1:03

year Christopher Michael Dawson was convicted

1:05

of the 1982 murder of his wife Lynette. After

1:10

four decades of freedom, Dawson

1:12

is now serving a 24 year

1:14

sentence. It's justice at long

1:16

last for his terrible crime. And

1:19

now Dawson faces allegations

1:21

that he groomed and sexually assaulted

1:24

a former female

1:25

student at a Northern Beaches high school

1:27

where he taught in the early 1980s. The

1:30

trial will play out in the New South Wales

1:33

District Court in Sydney. You

1:35

can follow the case at the newspaper's

1:37

digital site and at theteachersaccuser.com.au.

1:46

I'm Clare Harvey, Editorial Director

1:48

at The Australian and host of our daily news

1:50

podcast, The Front. Today we're

1:52

introducing you to three new books

1:54

all about this remarkable story.

1:57

Hedley's own book, The Teacher's Pet, has just...

2:00

finished rolling off the presses. It's

2:02

out on October 10. We'll

2:04

be joined by Rebecca Hazel, a lawyer

2:06

and advocate who featured in the teacher's pet

2:08

way back in 2018 on the road

2:11

with Headley as they embarked upon this

2:13

investigation together. Rebecca's

2:15

book, The Schoolgirl, Her Teacher and His

2:17

Wife is out now. And Chanel

2:19

Dawson, Chris and Lynn's eldest

2:21

daughter, who'll be familiar to you from her

2:24

fearing victim impact statement, delivered

2:26

to her father in the New South

2:27

Wales Supreme Court after he

2:30

was convicted of murder. Chanel's

2:32

now written

2:32

a deeply personal memoir about her

2:34

own life, her lost mum and the lingering

2:37

ramifications of her father's actions.

2:40

In today's episode, Headley and I will explore

2:42

how those narratives weave together and

2:44

why the story that began with Lynn's

2:47

disappearance has resonated around

2:49

the world. Throughout

2:52

the recording of this

2:52

podcast series, Headley has been

2:54

writing his long awaited book

2:57

and although I'd read the manuscript as a PDF,

2:59

I was excited when Headley came to our Sydney

3:02

office with the hard copy in his hand.

3:04

It was the first time I'd seen

3:06

him since a few days earlier when

3:08

we were recording one of our interviews for

3:10

this show. Headley was at home in

3:12

Brisbane and it became clear he

3:14

was in serious pain as we started

3:17

recording something seriously

3:19

wrong with his eyes. He was

3:21

rubbing his face, resting his forehead

3:23

in his palms.

3:25

My eyes are killing me. I've got to keep putting

3:27

my hand up to my face. I don't know what's happened.

3:29

I don't know what's happened. It's sap on my fingers that's got

3:31

in my eyes, but

3:33

I'm just really worried. I don't know what's

3:35

going on. Okay, let's try. Let's try.

3:38

It wasn't getting better and before long,

3:40

Headley was on his way to the emergency room.

3:43

Headley, you seem like a new man.

3:45

I'm finally back to normal,

3:47

Claire. I had a very traumatic incident

3:49

with the fire stick sap in

3:51

my eyes, but I'm good now. Are we blaming

3:53

your mate who does a bit of gardening around your place? This

3:56

is not Ken's fault. I'm very,

3:58

I think, selflessly. offered to help

4:01

him drag away a few branches of the dreaded

4:03

succulent euphorbia tree and smeared

4:06

sap all over my hands that then

4:08

infiltrated both my eyes

4:10

and I honestly thought that

4:13

I was going to lose my vision. I was screaming

4:16

in agony. Now your wonderful

4:18

wife, Ruth, is an emergency nurse.

4:21

Was she appropriately sympathetic? No, no,

4:23

she was out shopping and she was

4:25

a little bit, I think, disturbed

4:27

at the idea of having to interrupt her

4:30

shopping for new clothes to

4:32

come home and rescue me. It was either that or an

4:34

ambulance to the hospital and no,

4:37

Ruth did the right thing. She rushed home and looked

4:39

after me very well. Was there a treatment or was

4:41

it just wait? It was three

4:44

hours of very manly suffering.

4:47

Suffering in silence. I didn't complain.

4:50

I dealt with it in a very stoic

4:52

way and you wouldn't even have known

4:55

that I was in utter intense

4:58

agony.

4:59

Now you've come bearing gifts. I'm hoping that

5:01

this copy of this beautiful shiny new book

5:04

that you've got here is for me.

5:05

Of course. This is the teacher's

5:07

pet, the book that I

5:10

was handed today at Cafe

5:12

Sydney by the fantastic people from Pan

5:14

Macmillan. They produced, I don't

5:17

know how many books they printed and it's

5:19

the story of Lin and Chris

5:22

and a journey of

5:24

journalism and policing and prosecuting

5:27

that culminated in Chris being prosecuted

5:29

finally and convicted for Lin's

5:32

murder. I'm so proud that

5:34

it's finally done. It has

5:36

been a long time coming. I had to put

5:38

it off for several years

5:40

because I didn't want anything that

5:42

I might put down on paper

5:45

to be pulled over by his

5:47

defense lawyers. Bearing in mind, they already got all

5:49

of my emails, text messages and audio

5:51

files. So this is a book I started

5:53

writing this year in February

5:56

and it's 502 pages. It's a lot more

5:59

than the published as asked for but it's a

6:01

big story.

6:04

I thought I knew the

6:05

story of Chris Dawson inside out. I

6:07

was a member of the Walkley judging board in 2018

6:10

when we decided to give Headley and engineer

6:12

Slade Gibson not just the

6:14

Walkley for best long-form audio

6:16

but also the Gold Walkley. That's

6:18

Australian journalism's highest award.

6:21

Even then before Dawson had been tried or convicted

6:24

it was clear this investigation was going

6:26

to change the way Australian

6:27

journalism was done.

6:30

Henry's book isn't out until October 10

6:32

but he sent me a PDF and

6:33

I've read it, scrolling through on

6:35

my laptop at home during the chaos

6:38

of school holidays in between bouts of

6:40

baking and board games and trips to

6:42

the playground.

6:43

This story for Headley starts almost 70

6:45

years ago. I

6:47

won't tell you why because it's a bit of a spoiler

6:50

but this is deeply personal. He's never

6:52

talked about this aspect before but it helps

6:54

understand why Lynn's story never

6:57

left him. Headley's work on the

6:59

teacher's pet from the first time he wrote a feature

7:01

about the case nearly two decades

7:03

ago to today has also

7:05

taken a toll on him and

7:07

his family in real time

7:09

and in the book he takes the reader deep inside

7:12

a journalistic investigation with all

7:14

the risks and costs and

7:16

ethical choices that must be made

7:18

along the way.

7:20

I found the book deeply funny and

7:22

I knew it would be as Headley in real

7:24

life is a big personality all

7:26

charisma and self-deprecation and

7:28

laughs but Headley also shows

7:31

his vulnerability and the deep thoughtful

7:33

moments that happen when the microphone

7:36

is switched off.

7:37

At times this has been a harrowing experience

7:40

for Headley and his family even as the walk

7:42

leaves were flowing and the accolades

7:44

were ringing in his ears.

7:46

It's the story of Headley's lifetime

7:49

of journalism and one journalist

7:51

looking for truth and meaning in

7:54

Lynn's story and his own. of

8:00

what I've read so far, which is about two thirds on the PDF

8:02

that you sent me, is about the genesis

8:05

of this

8:05

story, particularly at the Australian.

8:08

How you burst into the office

8:10

of our wonderful Queensland

8:11

editor, Michael McKenna. Tell

8:14

me a little bit about Michael McKenna and about that

8:16

day.

8:16

Michael's been a long time friend in

8:19

newspapers and I've

8:21

always respected him enormously. His

8:24

news sense and his determination

8:27

and drive and energy and humour

8:30

is just a wonderful human being.

8:33

When I went to talk to Michael about Lynne's

8:35

story, I was really pleading

8:38

for his backing to do something

8:40

that would take me out of his

8:43

influence and out of the newsroom

8:45

for many months. Michael could

8:47

have put up barriers. He could

8:50

have explained how short-staffed

8:52

the newsroom was. He could have come up with many

8:54

absolutely legitimate reasons

8:57

for me to not take this case on.

9:00

He asked me a number of really

9:02

sensible questions about could this

9:04

case grow legs? Could it

9:07

possibly be solved? I said, yes,

9:10

I think it can be solved. From

9:12

that point on, he was behind it 100%. It

9:16

made it so much easier for me to then

9:18

take the idea to my

9:21

Sydney editors. When

9:23

they knew Michael was on board, they

9:25

were on board and that's how the teacher's

9:27

pet grew. You make the great point in

9:29

the book that newspapers are hungry

9:32

beasts.

9:32

They need to be filled every single day and that means

9:34

Michael has a news list that starts the day

9:36

empty. He needs to fill to demonstrate

9:39

that the reporters in Queensland are actually working

9:41

and not just out to lunch. You

9:42

say Michael's unenviable

9:45

job includes balancing the endless daily

9:47

needs of the paper with the independent spirit

9:49

of quixotic journalists spouting grand

9:51

ideas and big promises with rubbery

9:53

deadlines. Were you feeling

9:55

a little

9:55

self-conscious as a big-name

9:58

investigative reporter by that stage? already won

10:00

a gold walkly for your work, that

10:02

you were not at the top of the news list every

10:05

single day?

10:06

I did, Claire.

10:07

It doesn't matter how many runs on the boards

10:09

you have in journalism. It's very

10:11

hard for most of us to overcome imposter

10:14

syndrome and that fear

10:16

that there is somebody still

10:18

counting and looking

10:21

and working out whether your stories

10:24

are cutting through. Are they

10:26

getting prominence? Are they sufficiently

10:29

frequent to justify you

10:31

remaining employed?

10:33

And it's often an irrational fear.

10:35

It's not really happening, but many of us just

10:38

sense that. And in some ways it's a good

10:40

thing because it can drive you to

10:43

give your very best, to go the extra

10:45

yard.

10:46

At that time, the Australian was really just

10:48

dipping its toe into the waters of podcasting.

10:51

Our colleague Dan Bocks had made Bowerville

10:53

a remarkable exploration of

10:56

the still unsolved murders of three Aboriginal

10:58

children from northern New South Wales.

11:00

Did you know that Lynne's story

11:03

was right for audio or was it a bit of a

11:05

gut instinct?

11:06

It must have been a gut instinct because I didn't

11:08

know anything about audio. I had

11:11

listened to Dan's work with Bowerville.

11:14

I'd also listened to Serial

11:16

by Sarah Koenig, which was a global

11:19

smash hit and probably triggered many

11:22

thousands of podcasts. But

11:24

I had no idea what would be involved. I

11:27

didn't understand microphone

11:29

technique. I still don't. I

11:32

knew that

11:32

the storytelling and the writing

11:35

were really the drivers. And

11:38

to do justice to a big story,

11:40

you've got to do the hard yards. I

11:43

didn't want to do any story. I

11:45

wanted to do one that

11:47

for me could

11:50

be solved, but also would mean

11:52

something to the people who

11:55

I had met already

11:57

and would mean something to me. I

11:59

knew that Lynne's story could be solved

12:01

because in my view, even

12:03

back then, Chris Dawson

12:06

had probably got away with murder. I became utterly

12:08

convinced of that as the investigation

12:10

developed.

12:11

But even at that early stage, I thought he had been

12:13

incredibly lucky

12:15

to escape ever being charged. But

12:17

there were also some personal elements in

12:20

the story that attracted me to it

12:22

and I think they became

12:25

the sort of underlying driver for me.

12:27

Once you got that green light from Michael McKenna,

12:30

you

12:30

came down to Sydney for probably much

12:32

more important meeting with someone who became

12:34

a really important collaborator, Rebecca Hazel.

12:37

So I presume you had that meeting at a serious

12:39

boardroom here at our office in Holt Street? No

12:41

way. Claire, I was on expenses. I was going

12:44

to take Rebecca to a very

12:46

expensive restaurant at News Corp's expense.

12:49

That was the icebergs,

12:52

that iconic place overlooking Bondi

12:55

only a few kilometers from Clovelly

12:57

where Lynn grew up.

12:58

I think I wanted to make a really good

13:01

impression on Rebecca because I so

13:03

wanted to work collaboratively with her.

13:06

She had spent already several

13:08

years researching Lynn's story

13:10

and Lynn's second wife, the babysitter's

13:13

story.

13:14

They had worked together at a women's refuge on

13:16

the Northern Beaches. Rebecca had

13:18

this unpublished manuscript

13:21

having spent all that time

13:23

talking to Chris' second wife

13:26

and trying to understand

13:28

the story and unpick it from several different angles.

13:30

I thought the stars might

13:32

align for her and I to work

13:35

together and for News Corporation

13:37

or the Australian to publish Rebecca's book

13:40

in tandem with the publication of my podcast.

13:44

Rebecca and I could work together and

13:46

interview people together and she would be

13:48

a part of the whole story.

13:51

I'm so glad that she's

13:53

also published her book and

13:55

we remain great friends and we've

13:57

been on this journey together from the very start.

13:59

since we first met in November 2017. Fast

14:03

forward to the release of the podcast.

14:05

It became a global juggernaut unlike

14:08

anything Australian journalism has seen before,

14:11

certainly unlike anything that we've produced at

14:13

The Australian. One of the features of The Australian

14:15

is that we have a hard paywall,

14:18

which means you can't read our journalism unless you

14:20

subscribe. That's unusual

14:22

in Australian newspapers. Many papers

14:24

have a bit of a soft paywall where you can read

14:27

a certain number of articles a month or you

14:29

can read most of an article before it actually

14:31

asks you to get out the credit card. We've taken

14:33

the business decision at The Australian that

14:36

we back our journalism

14:37

and that we want people to pay for

14:39

it because that's how we can fund it.

14:41

And overwhelmingly, people are more than happy

14:43

to pay for great journalism like yours.

14:47

Podcasting is a little bit different because the teacher's

14:49

pet was going out for free on all

14:51

the podcast players, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

14:54

and so on. But the stories that

14:56

were accompanying that podcast in the normal

14:58

course of events would be locked. They

15:00

would be behind the paywall.

15:01

But we made a big decision to unlock them.

15:04

Tell me about why that happened

15:05

and why those stories were made freely available.

15:08

Yeah, look, I took the view early on

15:10

that the podcasting genre

15:13

was so new, particularly

15:14

to our listeners

15:16

and to Australia's listeners. And

15:19

that if we were going to produce a major

15:22

podcast investigation about the

15:24

unsolved murder of a woman

15:27

who we believed had been killed

15:29

in cold blood by her husband,

15:32

then we needed to do whatever it

15:34

took to make that story accessible to

15:36

members of the public. And I argued

15:38

internally for all

15:40

of our stories to be free

15:43

so that when you clicked on the links, you

15:46

didn't need to be a subscriber to the Australian

15:48

to read them and follow the story. Marketing

15:51

people and commercial people, they very

15:53

sensibly want to point out

15:55

that

15:56

we had a commercial

15:59

and editorial success story

16:01

that could have driven many, many thousands

16:04

of subscriptions to the paper if we had

16:06

not paywalled it.

16:08

However,

16:09

on the other hand, would it have become

16:12

the major talking point

16:14

that it became if it

16:16

had been locked up editorially? Could

16:18

it have developed to the stage that it did? In

16:21

the end, and I'm really glad

16:23

to say and so thankful to

16:26

the business for supporting the story

16:28

the way it did, we decided

16:30

that it should be free to everybody. There

16:32

would be no paywall throughout all

16:35

of 2018 and there

16:37

were probably several hundred stories

16:39

that were produced as a result.

16:42

I think that access gave

16:44

many tens of thousands of Australians who

16:46

were following the story access

16:49

that they would not otherwise have had and I think

16:52

really helped to

16:53

create the following and the

16:55

huge public interest in this case.

16:58

I know from our conversations that you

17:00

pay for a lot of journalism, you have subscriptions

17:02

of your own to all sorts of publications. How

17:05

do you think news organisations balance

17:08

that desire for the stories to

17:10

go big with the need

17:12

that we have to pay for the journalism?

17:15

We have always paid for journalism.

17:18

People used to pay for journalism by

17:20

spending 25 cents or 50 cents or whatever

17:22

the price was for the newspaper or the magazine.

17:26

Then of course, the internet came along and news organisations

17:29

in an act of probable

17:32

folly decided to make

17:34

all of it free and that educated

17:37

people to think that journalism

17:39

should be free.

17:40

But that was silly. That was an anomaly

17:43

and unfortunately, it probably set

17:45

journalism back because it conditioned

17:48

many people to believe they

17:50

shouldn't have to pay. That journalism could

17:52

just be taken and didn't cost anything

17:55

and had no real value. Subscription

17:58

models are so important. The

18:00

difference with the teacher's pet at that

18:02

time was podcasting was so new

18:04

and the teacher's pet

18:07

was going out at no cost

18:10

and I believe that this case could truly

18:12

be solved

18:13

for a one-off. We decided to

18:16

change the mix and it worked.

18:19

Now it's always a bit of an author flex to

18:21

see who they can get to endorse their

18:23

book on the cover here. Headly's got

18:25

Trent Dalton

18:26

and Lee Sails. Lee

18:28

Sails is a very well-known Australian

18:29

journalist with the ABC and

18:31

she's a top-rating podcaster in her own

18:33

right with her friend Annabelle Crabb.

18:36

Their show, Chat 10, Look 3, is

18:38

a juggernaut and Lee's just published her

18:41

own book, Storytellers, Questions,

18:43

Answers and the Craft of Journalism. Welcome

18:46

back to the show. When you think of journalism, you think of Lee

18:48

Sails. She's interviewed almost everyone from Hillary

18:50

Clinton, the Delilama to former

18:53

Cartney and Elton John. On the cover, Lee

18:55

describes Headly's book as a masterclass

18:57

in investigative journalism. Headly's

19:00

also got an endorsement from our colleague and friend

19:02

Trent Dalton who works with us at the Australian

19:04

and

19:05

he's also a world-famous best-selling

19:08

author. His books include Boy's Fallows

19:10

Universe, Lola in the Mirror, All

19:12

Our Shimmering Skies and Love Stories.

19:15

Trent is not just a wordsmith, he's

19:17

a pro on the microphone too and

19:19

he's what he wrote about Headly's book.

19:21

This is Trent's voice. A

19:24

monumental work, a burrowing,

19:27

twisting, spine-tingling genre

19:29

defining tribute to the power and

19:31

the cost

19:32

of asking questions.

19:34

If you think you know this story, think again.

19:37

Know Australian, alive or dead, is given

19:39

more to journalism

19:40

than Headly Thomas.

19:42

True crime storytelling as we now

19:44

know it

19:45

begins with the teacher's pet. Claire,

19:49

I'm enormously grateful to both

19:51

Lee and Trent and what

19:53

they've written. I mean, I couldn't have put it better myself.

19:56

That's a big compliment. It

19:58

is. kind. This

20:01

book represents to me not the

20:07

records, so much material that I wasn't

20:11

going to find the microphone or being interviewed. There's

20:13

a lot of personal material

20:16

in there, not just personal material for

20:18

me, but for many people I interviewed.

20:21

I did so many interviews

20:23

that I couldn't properly reflect

20:26

in the podcast because of the pace at

20:28

which we were going

20:29

and because of the deadlines and demands,

20:32

sometimes the narrative arc

20:34

of the podcast went past

20:36

the material that I had recorded

20:39

but not used. I also

20:41

wanted to try to do

20:43

a bit of a memoir of journalism

20:46

and how in newsrooms

20:49

such as Newsroom at the Australian, we

20:52

actually develop a

20:54

story like this murder

20:57

investigation, the very

20:59

beginnings of it, the legal advice that

21:01

we take and the way the

21:03

story is crafted and the

21:05

way people like yourself

21:08

and our colleagues all pitch in and help

21:10

and

21:11

generate incredible momentum

21:13

so that Lynne's story doesn't

21:15

just fall between the cracks, so that it counts for

21:17

something and so that we might create the kind of

21:20

critical mass that will cause

21:22

the authorities and the office of the DPP

21:25

to not again look away, they've

21:28

got to pay attention and

21:30

this book is at 502 pages which

21:33

is probably about 150 pages more than the publishers

21:37

wanted. It is my effort to

21:40

do justice properly and finally

21:43

to this amazing

21:45

case that has been

21:47

such a privilege for

21:49

me to be involved in and also

21:52

has made such a difference to so many

21:54

people's lives.

21:56

Rebecca Hazel and Headley are close

21:59

friends and together they've explored

22:01

every corner of this sweeping story.

22:03

We sat down with Rebecca via Google Meet, Headley

22:06

at home in Brisbane, Rebecca and I

22:08

in Sydney. But as we began recording,

22:11

it became clear Headley was in some

22:14

distress.

22:15

My eyes are killing me. I don't know

22:17

what's going on. Let's try. Let's

22:19

try. Okay. Let's

22:21

see how we go.

22:22

Well, listeners to The Teacher's Pet will remember

22:25

Rebecca Hazel's name from the very earliest

22:27

days of that podcast. And

22:29

five years on, Rebecca has published

22:31

the book that she was working on all those years

22:33

ago. It's called The School Girl,

22:35

Her Teacher and His Wife. And

22:37

it's available now. Of course, Headley Thomas has

22:40

also written a book and they're

22:42

both joining me to talk about how they got

22:44

to know each other and the experience

22:46

of working on this project together. Rebecca,

22:49

how did you first come across

22:52

this story? What was the start of a few?

22:54

Well, it started for me in 2007,

22:58

I think, when I was working in a women's refuge

23:00

as a lawyer. And I met the

23:03

school girl at the centre

23:05

of this story

23:06

with Lynette Dawson. And she told

23:08

me the story and I truly just found it

23:11

almost unbelievable. So

23:13

that stuck with me for a long time.

23:15

And then several years later, I decided

23:17

I wanted to write a book about Lynette,

23:20

what was obviously murder and the

23:22

way the school girl had also been treated

23:25

at Chris Dawson's hands. She

23:27

was working there as well. We were colleagues. Not

23:30

many people came inside that refuge.

23:32

We were pretty self-contained. So we got

23:34

to know each other very well. And I got

23:36

to know her and she told me

23:38

a little bit of her story and then a little

23:40

bit more over time. And many

23:43

years after

23:44

I moved on, the story just stayed

23:46

with me. Headley

23:47

and I, I think he would say the same.

23:49

It feels like there was some kind

23:52

of pull between us. I

23:54

felt like we were meant to come together

23:57

in some way.

23:58

I think at various times you were picking him up.

23:59

from the airport and driving him around the northern

24:02

beaches. Yes, a lot of it was very unglamorous

24:04

work. A

24:06

career, a driver. It was very

24:09

hot. It was hard work, but it

24:11

was fun work. And it was a real insight

24:13

into

24:13

the magic of storytelling

24:16

and of journalism. You know, I remember those moments

24:19

that we heard in the podcast with the two of you sitting in the

24:21

car kind of war gaming about what to

24:23

do next or the information that you just

24:26

heard. Did you think at the

24:28

beginning of that process that you were going to end up solving

24:30

that murder?

24:31

I absolutely didn't. And

24:34

I didn't think that when I began writing the book

24:36

years before, I thought,

24:38

everything's lost. There's no conviction.

24:41

There's no evidence to mount all this on

24:43

anymore.

24:44

So it was truly a remarkable

24:47

journey with Headley. Yeah,

24:49

for you was the purpose of the book

24:51

to take on some

24:53

of these big themes about coercive

24:55

control and domestic violence, or was it about

24:57

attempting to expose someone

25:00

you thought was a murderer?

25:01

It was coercive control of both

25:04

of them, and it culminated in murder, murdering

25:06

Lynette. But

25:08

it hadn't played out at that point. You

25:10

know, he hadn't been charged. He hadn't been found

25:13

guilty. Sorry, guys. I think I'm

25:15

going to have to draw. Sorry about

25:17

this. Okay. Bye. Headley

25:20

disappeared to try and get some relief

25:22

for his burning eyes. And

25:24

Rebecca and I kept talking.

25:26

It feels to me it's only

25:28

five years on, but we have made

25:30

a quantum leap in our public

25:32

discussion of

25:34

things like domestic violence. We just used the

25:36

phrase coercive control, which wasn't really in

25:38

the mainstream language then. You had

25:40

been

25:41

in the world of

25:43

working with survivors of family violence and

25:45

women who've been in terrible relationships.

25:48

Were you frustrated at that point that this

25:51

didn't seem to be something that Australia

25:53

was taking seriously?

25:54

Yeah, it seemed to me so obvious

25:57

what had happened.

25:58

All the elements.

25:59

of domestic violence that we were seeing every

26:02

day with women coming through the refuge,

26:04

with women in court.

26:06

It had all the elements. It was sort

26:08

of perplexing as to why it hadn't

26:10

gone further. And then the more I dug into it,

26:12

it actually was even more perplexing because some

26:14

cops had actually got to the point, as

26:16

you know, where they interviewed Chris Dawson and they put

26:19

the allegation to him very directly

26:21

that he had murdered Lynette. And

26:24

still it was dropped. There

26:26

was only a few of us that really knew everything, or

26:28

most of it, me and Headley being two of them,

26:30

I couldn't see any other outcome

26:33

than that he was guilty.

26:34

I think he's had a noticeable physical decline

26:37

even in the past year since he went on trial

26:39

for the murder. He seems frail

26:42

now and of course we've heard in Senator

26:44

Six Admissions that he says that he has the symptoms

26:46

of dementia. What are your feelings

26:49

about him now as someone who

26:51

is a bit of a shadow of his former self?

26:54

I can't feel sorry for him really. He's

26:56

done this to himself. He's ruined. His

26:59

relationship with every important person

27:01

in his life because of this. And

27:04

I can see why he is a crumpled man

27:06

because that's what murdering someone does to you.

27:09

Is

27:09

it the book that you thought you'd

27:11

write when you first started making notes?

27:13

It's definitely not the book I thought I'd write.

27:16

I mean, honestly,

27:17

from the time I finished writing the book

27:19

and then Headley began the podcast and from that

27:22

point on it

27:23

just exploded

27:24

across the world and fortunately,

27:27

I think, brought Chris Dawson

27:30

to charge his murder and having defended

27:32

and being found guilty and that's the right outcome.

27:35

A few days later, Headley was back, fully recovered

27:38

after a visit to emergency. It turned

27:40

out he'd got some sap on his hands while

27:42

clearing up some tree branches in the backyard.

27:45

The tree was fire stick,

27:47

Euphorbia tyricalei, which

27:49

is notorious for causing intense pain

27:52

and swelling of the cornea if rubbed

27:54

into the eyes.

27:55

We rejoined Rebecca, this time on the

27:58

line from her publisher's office.

28:00

In the way of audio though, it wasn't

28:02

completely smooth.

28:04

Rebecca, congratulations. The

28:06

book is finally out.

28:08

I'm just going to have to shut the door because Ruth's got

28:10

this robotic vacuum cleaner

28:12

that runs around the house and is starting to inch

28:14

its way closer to me. Just one moment.

28:18

Okay, that's better. Can you hear me

28:20

okay? Yep, I can hear you.

28:22

In December 2018, just

28:25

days before Krist Orson was charged

28:28

over Lyn's murder, your book was ready

28:30

to go. It was literally on the presses,

28:32

wasn't it?

28:34

Yeah, it absolutely was. So

28:36

it was an extraordinary clash

28:38

of time because once he

28:40

was charged, of course, the book couldn't be published

28:43

at that point.

28:44

But then you had five years

28:46

waiting for this opportunity. Of

28:49

course, all of the drama surrounding Krist

28:51

Orson's arrest in December 2018.

28:53

Then all of the committal proceedings, the

28:57

proceedings that he brought to try and prevent

28:59

even ever going to trial, the

29:02

handover of all of your documents,

29:05

all of my documents, all of our exchanges.

29:08

And then finally, last

29:11

year, the murder trial itself.

29:14

You must have wondered how many times

29:16

do I have to update this book

29:19

that was actually ready to be printed

29:21

and read.

29:22

It's been an absolute marathon, Hadley,

29:25

hasn't it? It just seemed to

29:27

go on and on and on.

29:29

And of course, in the middle of all that and dragging

29:31

all the court process out was the pandemic.

29:33

Is it a much stronger book for

29:35

the delay? The book

29:38

still stands on its own

29:41

in the sense that it looked at

29:43

the two women of the centre

29:45

before there was charges, before he

29:47

stood trial, it was about those women

29:50

and

29:50

how they were remembered and

29:52

the damage that kept unfolding.

29:55

You and I went through some

29:58

amazing experiences.

29:59

and highs and some

30:02

terrible lows. I remember when we

30:04

first connected and it

30:06

was 2012, you'd been working on your walk

30:10

and thinking about it

30:12

and researching it. You contacted

30:14

me out of the blue. You rang me in Brisbane

30:16

in 2012 because you had read something

30:19

that I wrote in 2001, that feature

30:23

article looking for Lyn. That was the first

30:25

connection that we made, wasn't it?

30:27

I first heard about Lyn Dawson

30:29

in 2007. I didn't start

30:32

working on the book until 2012 and

30:35

your article turned up as part

30:37

of my research. It stood out, it was

30:39

correct, but it also had a heart, which

30:41

is, I guess, where my book

30:43

was going. I wanted

30:45

to go to the heart of the women and the

30:47

pain and so I

30:49

thought I'd contact you and see if you had anything

30:51

further to say, any more information.

30:53

We bought different things to each other. I

30:56

was looking

30:57

at the very emotional journey at the

31:01

heart of these two women and their lives and

31:03

the people they loved.

31:05

You bought the skills of a very good journalist.

31:08

We had our heads together for such

31:10

long periods of time discussing things

31:13

and on the phone all day. I

31:15

think it was that combination of

31:17

what I had and what you had that really

31:20

pulled us together.

31:21

I loved the easy rapport

31:23

that we developed and we're so

31:25

very different. You're one of these

31:27

super woke northern beaches, highly

31:32

intelligent, right

31:34

on women. I'm this

31:36

horse racing, Queenslander

31:38

who never went to university. I

31:41

think we developed a beautiful friendship

31:43

and when we

31:46

were putting our heads together and talking

31:49

about the evidence and different angles

31:51

and information that I picked

31:54

up that you'd gleaned, the different

31:56

insights that we were able to then

31:58

consolidate.

31:59

so

32:01

important. You know, you helped

32:03

me appreciate

32:05

some of the things that I was, I

32:08

think, probably a bit too judgy

32:11

on or a bit too hard line on. In

32:13

some areas you had a softer and more

32:15

understanding or compassionate

32:18

line. You knew people

32:21

or you had already spoken to individuals

32:24

and you knew where they would be coming from when

32:26

I talked to them and that was a really big help too.

32:29

I did have strong views about certain people

32:31

or aspects of it.

32:33

I shared those views with you. Maybe

32:35

I could give you that more direct background

32:38

and what I could see you were doing was

32:41

something quite different.

32:43

Your reach

32:45

as a journalist was just very

32:47

impressive and I learnt a lot looking at you

32:49

and sharing what you did.

32:51

The trust that we developed so quickly

32:54

was integral

32:56

and I think what

32:59

followed for Chris Dawson. An

33:01

example of that trust is that within

33:03

just hours of us reconnecting

33:06

in late 2017 when I telephoned

33:08

you and I only knew

33:11

how to telephone you because I found your email

33:13

to me from 2012 and I told you what

33:16

I wanted to do and within hours you had

33:18

sent me big

33:19

parts of your unpublished

33:21

book, the manuscript of your book which was kind

33:24

of unheard of. We hadn't

33:26

even met. We looked

33:27

back and it was so unlikely

33:29

the whole thing wasn't it. You

33:31

can sort of look for metaphysical reasons

33:33

why that occurred. There

33:34

was an instinctive trust.

33:37

The days that we spent driving around

33:39

the northern beaches in your

33:42

big BMW and visiting

33:45

some of Lyn's friends and other

33:47

people including Hilton Mace,

33:49

the former deputy head of Cranber High

33:52

while we were doing this research and I was

33:54

recording all these people. It was

33:57

pretty rare too right? Like an

33:59

author

33:59

who's waiting for her book to be published,

34:02

and a podcast journalist for a daily

34:05

newspaper, and we're like working

34:07

together as if we've been besties.

34:09

I know, it's so funny. I

34:11

say in the book, Headley, that we had our heads

34:14

together so

34:14

much. It was like we were speaking

34:16

a language that no one else understood, and it

34:18

really felt like that at times.

34:20

I love that line.

34:22

How has it felt to see this thing that was just your

34:24

secret language, and that you two were particularly

34:27

obsessed about turn into a story

34:29

that belongs to everybody, really?

34:31

Headley, do you want to go first or me?

34:34

I think you should have a go, though. You'll be much more

34:36

eloquent.

34:39

The power of stories

34:42

and truth

34:43

really resonates with people.

34:47

We keep telling stories, singing songs,

34:49

writing books, plays, telling

34:51

their truth, being heard. That gives people

34:54

real dignity and assurance

34:57

that their life is worthwhile, and what

34:59

they're doing is the right thing. It's

35:02

also quite rewarding to feel

35:04

we've given people a voice

35:07

that perhaps otherwise they wouldn't have

35:09

had the opportunities to do. People

35:11

who are going to enjoy

35:14

your book and the other books,

35:16

mine and Chanel's, they've already

35:18

understood the story really well, they think,

35:21

from listening to many

35:24

episodes, including episodes of

35:26

The Teacher's Trial and The Teacher's Accuser

35:28

and The Original Teacher's Pet. But there

35:31

will be so much more that they

35:33

don't know about the

35:36

journey that the storytellers

35:38

and the subjects have been

35:40

on over a number of years. Your

35:43

book really starts back

35:45

in 2007 when you

35:48

met

35:49

the woman who was Krista Orson's second wife,

35:52

and five years later you resolved to

35:54

write that book. It engaged me

35:56

sufficiently that I wanted to write

35:58

a book when the podcast came along.

35:59

long,

36:00

it engaged everyone who heard that.

36:03

Everyone wanted to drive it forward

36:05

and also understand why

36:07

there was no resolution because it seemed

36:09

that there should have been.

36:11

But it was an incredibly

36:12

intense period and we were trying

36:14

to bring interviews and new

36:17

information into the narrative.

36:19

The story at the heart

36:21

of The Teacher's Pet, the story that I tried to tell,

36:23

that would have been a pale version

36:27

of what it was if you

36:29

hadn't agreed to help me and

36:31

you hadn't trusted me. When

36:34

Chris looks back on the things that contributed

36:37

to him going to prison, I hope

36:40

he on his list puts up fairly

36:42

high this very unlikely friendship

36:45

that we developed.

36:46

I think he does and that's very kind

36:48

of you to say

36:48

those nice things about me. Headly, we

36:51

think he's there because he killed someone and I think

36:53

he thought he was there because of your name.

36:55

Do you remember when we first

36:57

met? It was the restaurant Icebergs

37:00

and I've read in your book, I've

37:02

got the Kindle version and the audio version.

37:06

You regarded my invitation

37:09

to you to meet me at Icebergs, that amazing

37:12

restaurant

37:13

overlooking Bondi Beach. It

37:16

was, you wrote, a power

37:18

move. It

37:22

is. It's probably the most beautiful view from

37:24

any restaurant in Sydney. I thought

37:26

I was just being thoughtful, wasn't it? A power move. Well,

37:29

you were.

37:30

But I was on my guard and I was being invited

37:33

to this extraordinary place for lunch.

37:36

Okay, so here's the confession. The Brisbane

37:38

Journal was on expenses and trying to get the

37:40

nice place for lunch.

37:42

Yeah, well I know that now.

37:44

What do you recall of our objectives

37:47

jointly and individually

37:50

when we sat down and talked about Lyn

37:52

and Chris and this murder

37:54

that we clearly believed he had

37:56

got away with?

37:57

You said to me.

38:00

I want to have him charged with murder

38:03

and I said that will never happen

38:05

because it had been so long

38:07

I

38:08

couldn't see any way that that would happen.

38:11

I guess I thought the journey was about

38:13

a podcast that would tell everyone what had happened

38:16

and that was the justice that would be had and

38:18

I think you thought that and your

38:21

experience was that you could

38:23

actually have people charged if this

38:25

brought a lot out and motivated

38:28

people to come forward. As the podcast

38:30

grew

38:31

and we spoke to more and more

38:33

people I became a lot more certain

38:36

of his guilt. I

38:39

was confident that if we unearth

38:41

new facts and the light

38:44

that was shone was really bright it might

38:46

make a big difference. We

38:49

made good friends with people

38:51

we spoke to along the way too with

38:53

people who wanted to ensure that

38:56

we got our facts right that we made

38:58

a difference. I felt that when

39:00

we went to see people like Julie Andrew.

39:03

Yeah

39:03

look some of those people were just incredible

39:05

weren't they? I guess it was a sense

39:08

of an extension of the way we

39:10

had come together. There was such a strong

39:12

feeling from everyone we spoke to that

39:16

justice was being denied and

39:19

everyone wanted to do their part and I

39:21

actually think that the time that had elapsed probably

39:24

worked in our favour. People

39:26

were reluctant to speak earlier on but

39:28

I think all of us were getting older and a

39:30

lot of people thought well this is possibly

39:33

the last opportunity I'll have

39:35

to tell what I know.

39:38

How did you feel about some of

39:40

the interviews that we did

39:42

and our conversations and our communications

39:45

being handed over and scrutinised

39:48

by Chris Dawson and his defence lawyers,

39:50

by the prosecutors, by the police, even

39:52

by judges?

39:54

I really hated it Hadley. When

39:57

I was actually in the stand and at the end of the day I

39:59

was like I'm going

39:59

to do

39:59

the state proceeding for example they

40:02

put on a screen some of my emails

40:05

or some handwritten notes

40:07

that they then questioned me about and it

40:10

just felt awful.

40:11

You know a lot of my notes were very personal

40:13

as well and they were thoughts trying to connect

40:16

one thing to another and I

40:18

found that quite distressing. There

40:20

was so much of it too and you and

40:22

I used to ramble on about not just

40:25

the case but you know partners.

40:29

We shared a lot didn't we? Our kids

40:30

were sort of

40:32

like teens becoming young adults

40:35

and we shared those experiences.

40:38

You got on well with my husband, I got on

40:40

well with your wife.

40:42

One of the hardest parts for me doing

40:44

the podcast was overcoming

40:46

my anxiety that I couldn't

40:48

do

40:50

proper justice to Lynn's story

40:52

because it was so fast,

40:54

so important. It had so many crucial

40:57

touchstones. It's such a

40:59

rare story. It's so hideously

41:03

chilling, disturbing.

41:06

It makes you question

41:08

whether the cops and

41:11

other agencies and I'm talking

41:13

about the early years actually

41:16

cared or were they corrupt. The story

41:18

was so big that I

41:21

feared it. The angles

41:23

were too serious and concerning.

41:26

Well

41:26

when we started out, you had

41:29

a lot of trouble putting yourself

41:31

into the story but you were

41:33

the one telling the story. You were the one moving

41:35

around interviewing people and it

41:38

wasn't a series of articles. It was really

41:40

an

41:41

ongoing very big story.

41:44

You and I would just be rambling on about things

41:46

completely oblivious to the fact that the

41:48

sound recorders was in the back seat.

41:50

We hear this rustle, a little microphone

41:53

come between the seats. We completely forgot

41:56

that there was someone else in the car. It was

41:58

very funny.

41:59

It's just been such a pleasure getting to know

42:02

you and I've never really had a working relationship

42:04

like this. It's just been incredible and

42:06

it's an ongoing friendship. It's

42:09

lovely.

42:10

When I visited the house at Bayview with

42:12

Rebecca one afternoon, we talked

42:14

in her car at the bottom of the driveway about

42:16

the soft soil and these weird

42:19

connections.

42:20

We considered walking up to talk to the new

42:22

owners of the house. They bought it

42:24

a year ago for about $2.5 million. Could

42:28

you live there? I think it's history. Yeah,

42:30

I could.

42:32

Because if she's there and

42:34

if it happened under the circumstances it

42:36

did, I could take care

42:38

of her.

42:39

I could make it nice, you know, if that's

42:42

where her resting place is.

42:44

If her family thinks that

42:46

where she is, if there's a place where they could

42:49

come and speak to her,

42:51

what about

42:52

you? I don't

42:54

think so. I think

42:56

it's a beautiful thing that you just said but I

42:58

reckon that

43:00

would be pretty uneasy.

43:02

I think I dig the place up.

43:05

Listeners to episode four of The

43:07

Teacher's Pet will be familiar with those exchanges

43:10

you just heard. But what you haven't

43:12

heard before is the voice of Nick Adams-Jazbar.

43:15

He was in the back seat with a microphone.

43:18

Here's Nick.

43:19

This is the reason why I listen to this podcast. This conversation

43:21

is changing the car

43:23

right now, knowing that we're sitting right at the

43:27

front, meeting the dilemma. The morality of do you

43:29

go in or not and whether if you

43:31

do or don't, whether you're just

43:34

as confident as everybody else is, I think we're

43:36

just all compelling

43:38

stuff. Like I

43:39

don't even know what punch I'd cut. Rebecca's

43:42

a natural, this stuff. You're

43:44

both being really... Pounded.

43:49

Maybe what we could do is form a little company after

43:51

these. Do cold cases together.

43:53

Headly Hazel Productions. I

43:58

think I have a very monotone voice. and

44:00

I wish I had more intonation

44:03

and drama in it. I think the

44:05

story has got enough drama. Yes, I

44:07

don't need to dress it up, it's probably right. I

44:09

speak too slowly. You

44:12

do speak slowly but I think it's good.

44:14

If it was all good stuff we could learn from each

44:16

other. Can

44:19

you tell her doctor?

44:20

No, he's a pilot. Do

44:25

you think she ever felt suspected by the police

44:27

or the family of being involved? I

44:29

do, yes I do. And I asked,

44:31

that was one of the first things I asked Damien, did

44:34

you ever think she had anything to do with

44:36

Lynette's disappearance? And he said no, not

44:38

for a minute. Because she came

44:40

to us and she told us what she knew. He said

44:43

if she had something to do with her, you would not

44:45

put yourself in that position.

44:47

We've talked about how Lynne must have felt when

44:49

she understood the

44:50

betrayal. Teachers, students,

44:53

her friends, her brother-in-law Paul

44:55

Dawson, his wife Marilyn. They

44:58

all knew Chris was in love with Lyn.

45:00

Not with Lyn.

45:02

It was not a brief fling or a one night stand. It

45:04

had been going on for a year. These

45:07

people around me, this little community I have, who

45:09

are supposed to really love and do everything for

45:11

me, are actually all betraying me. Including

45:14

this young woman who I've moved into my house

45:16

as an act of kindness, who I'm pretty

45:19

sure is having an affair with my husband.

45:21

It's a part of me that I think I could

45:24

imagine just walking out the door.

45:26

It was important to know as much as possible

45:29

about events at the time of Lyn's disappearance.

45:32

She liked them? I

45:34

asked her that exact question and

45:36

what she said to me was she started to

45:38

cry. And she said, I met

45:41

Dawson and showed me more kindness than

45:43

anyone else ever has in my entire life.

45:46

So I guess that's yes. And

45:49

in quite a profound way. She must

45:51

feel a lot of guilt. She feels terrible.

45:54

Yeah, it's why she cries.

45:56

He's having a relationship with a 16 year old

45:58

girl. And he's had

46:01

the arrogance or the confidence

46:03

or the lack of respect for his wife to actually

46:06

move her into their own home and

46:08

to sleep with her

46:09

in their house while their

46:12

children are sleeping nearby. I mean there's

46:14

something quite abnormal about that. So

46:16

far outside the bounds of normal human

46:18

behaviour isn't it? It's so unkind.

46:21

I

46:21

mean they'd known each other for so long

46:23

and they'd had two beautiful children together. Why

46:26

didn't he just say I just can't be

46:28

here anymore?

46:31

If Chris Dawson is

46:33

a convicted murderer and

46:35

in prison in part because

46:38

of the podcast, it's

46:41

significantly because of the

46:43

help that you gave me and the

46:46

professional friendship that we

46:48

forged.

46:49

Thanks, Headley. I so much love.

46:52

Yeah, there is. There's a lot of love between us.

46:54

How does it feel now

46:56

to be a published author finally?

46:59

Oh, I hope it doesn't take this long for my next

47:01

book, Headley. I

47:04

just love writing. We'll

47:07

be back after this break.

47:16

Welcome back.

47:18

Chanel Dawson dialed in for this special

47:20

conversation from her home via a

47:22

video call. Headley and

47:24

I are joined by Chanel Dawson whose book

47:26

My Mother's Eyes is out on October 12.

47:30

Chanel, you write in the

47:32

forward to the book about how much you

47:35

and your daughter love swimming and

47:37

that that's a connection for you with Lynn.

47:40

My daughter just

47:41

I guess has been in the water since

47:43

she was pretty much born and

47:45

yeah,

47:46

something that brings us both joy. Definitely

47:50

something and to know and learn

47:52

that my mum's family around even in Sydney.

47:55

She was definitely tougher than us. She

47:58

grew

47:58

up near the water in Clovelli.

47:59

Have you spent much time at

48:02

Clovelli Beach and those beaches around there? A

48:04

little bit. When we'd go on a visit now, it seems she

48:06

still lived in the house that my mum grew

48:07

up in. So yeah, it has beautiful

48:10

memories there for us as well.

48:12

Tell me about becoming a mum

48:15

and how it's changed your life

48:18

and maybe changed how you've thought about

48:20

your own mum.

48:21

It changed the

48:23

grief I felt towards my mum because

48:25

it wasn't just my own grief. I was now

48:28

kind of extending the grief

48:30

that I felt for the fact my daughter didn't have a

48:32

grandmother or her grandmother. So

48:35

that definitely changed that in my

48:37

dynamic and my processing around the loss of

48:39

my mum. And then even on a regular

48:41

basis, not having her there for her birthdays

48:44

or for not having her here in physical,

48:47

obviously she's around in spirit. There's

48:50

always these constant reminders that our

48:52

mum, my mum, is missing.

48:55

In your book, you describe

48:57

a moment when you returned

48:59

from some time living in Hawaii and

49:03

you'd organised to surprise

49:05

the family. You came

49:07

to the Broadwater where your dad and his wife were having

49:09

a picnic and walked up.

49:11

Would you tell us about what happened? I

49:15

hadn't told the family that I was coming back.

49:17

It was just my sister who knew and she picked me

49:19

up from the airport. My dad

49:21

saw me and literally took

49:24

two steps backwards while his hand was

49:26

on his heart and he was gasping.

49:31

At that time, I didn't

49:33

know that my father had murdered my

49:35

mum. So it was only later that

49:37

I reflected on that moment that

49:39

I wondered if it had some

49:41

connection to her, to my mum. But

49:44

in that moment, I sort of made a joke and said,

49:47

I didn't realise I'd surprise you that much. We

49:49

kind of laughed and he laughed and I'm

49:51

like, hi dad, are you okay? And

49:54

we all just sort of laughed it off.

49:56

I do actually think that

49:57

for a moment he thought he was seeing my mother.

50:01

The book is called My Mother's Eyes

50:03

and you know in that passage that

50:06

maybe it was something about your eyes

50:08

that reminded him of her.

50:11

Have you been conscious throughout your life of

50:13

a resemblance to your mum? You know, do you see

50:15

her when you look in the mirror? When other people

50:18

used to tell me I look like her and

50:20

I used to look a lot more like her when I was younger

50:23

and I also noticed that I've now outlived her by

50:25

a decade and a half. In

50:28

my younger years I looked a lot more like her so

50:30

I'm told and I used to love it when people

50:32

would tell me that. I also

50:35

sort of simultaneously felt a little bit guilty

50:37

because my sister wasn't getting that same

50:39

reflection but every now and again

50:41

I might see a photo and I can sort of see the

50:44

resemblance but of course I think she's

50:46

absolutely beautiful and we don't tend to think

50:48

that about ourselves. She

50:52

was 28 when she gave birth to me and

50:54

then it was only four years later that

50:56

her life was taken from her.

50:59

You mentioned Chanel that

51:01

in that moment when you surprised your

51:03

dad you hadn't come to

51:05

the realisation yet that he had murdered your

51:07

mum. Could

51:08

you tell me a little about how you

51:10

did come to that realisation

51:11

and when that thought solidified

51:14

in your mind?

51:15

I was living and working on a boat

51:17

teaching two boys and we were travelling

51:20

around Australia

51:21

and I had

51:23

a visit with a friend who and I

51:26

know some people don't believe in this stuff heavily.

51:34

Her mum had passed over

51:36

and she believed, I

51:38

believed also that she was able

51:40

to communicate with her. I showed

51:43

her a photo of my mum and I still in

51:45

that moment thought my mum was alive somewhere

51:47

in the world and that I would see her again. When

51:50

I showed her the photo of my mum

51:52

she immediately felt like she was

51:54

being strangled and then

51:56

she felt that my mother

51:57

was able to talk to her. And

52:00

the details that were coming through were

52:02

very specific and there's no way that

52:04

she could have known some of what was coming through. That

52:07

does lead me to believe that it

52:10

was valid. Sometimes we can't

52:12

explain things and all

52:14

I do know is that what she was saying

52:17

resonated.

52:18

When Antique Roadshow aired

52:20

a

52:21

segment of a woman who

52:23

was bidding for an item,

52:27

your father messaged you and

52:29

he suggested that the woman could

52:31

be Lynn and that she

52:33

was in Cordless. Yes,

52:35

I remember it clearly. It's

52:37

one thing that he's done this horrible thing,

52:39

but then it's next level, the

52:42

way that he treated people, like especially

52:44

my Nana Sims and everyone who loved

52:46

my mum, but trying

52:49

to give a daughter who you supposedly love false

52:54

hope that she might be able to find her mum.

52:56

Like that is a very obvious lack

52:59

of any empathy or compassion.

53:01

And

53:02

in those years I took it very personally

53:04

because I didn't really understand potential

53:07

narcissism and I

53:09

still really loved my dad.

53:11

Shail, what do you think the motive was for

53:14

his suggestion to you that you could

53:17

possibly find your mum in Cornwall?

53:21

I mean, what's going on in his mind?

53:23

Knowing that he's highly manipulative,

53:25

I'm sure he had some ulterior

53:28

motives behind it.

53:29

And I've come to also realise that

53:32

if he really doesn't believe that he did it, like

53:34

if he's managed to block that out from

53:36

his mind, from his memory, then

53:38

maybe on some delusional level he

53:40

believed that was possible, that I might find

53:42

her. I often spend a

53:45

lot of time trying to work out his brain, but I

53:47

don't know if that's possible.

53:48

Was it daunting for you to sit down

53:51

and start writing this book and revisiting

53:55

in a very raw and no doubt painful

53:57

way the

53:58

memories

53:59

people have of your mother. Definitely

54:02

daunting, I was a complete mess most

54:04

of the time writing the book and definitely

54:07

sacrificed a lot in the way of not

54:10

really having any relaxing

54:12

time to myself or seeing friends or anything.

54:14

So I was in it the whole time, I was really

54:16

in it. Unfortunately I

54:18

don't have any memories of my mum other than

54:21

sort

54:21

of a few flashes of traumatic ones.

54:24

I feel her

54:26

essence that comes to me

54:28

as a feeling of grace.

54:31

Before we met for the first time at Harvey

54:34

Bay and that was January 2018,

54:38

you had been

54:39

almost anonymous in so

54:42

far as the public's concerned. When

54:44

it came to the disappearance and suspected murder

54:46

of your mum, you became

54:49

a much more public

54:51

figure and you agreed to be interviewed.

54:53

Chanel,

54:55

thanks so much for having us in your home

54:57

at Harvey Bay. You're welcome.

54:59

How long have you been here?

55:01

I'm about four weeks

55:03

now. I don't want to come across

55:05

as an airy-fairy, new age, baby

55:07

kind of person.

55:08

But you are living kind of like

55:10

an alternative lifestyle, aren't you?

55:12

I guess you would call it that. Yeah.

55:14

And have you always had that lifestyle

55:16

since you were like a teenager?

55:17

I had these idealistic notions

55:20

that I could change the system from within.

55:21

And that led you into

55:24

living in like communes and communities?

55:27

I guess I've always just had these fanciful

55:29

notions of what life should be like and

55:31

how people should be kind to each other and I find

55:34

society just a bit too harsh. Australia,

55:37

the most recent we just left Crystal Waters

55:40

which is if you're into permaculture really well-known.

55:42

I

55:43

think it was beautiful, lovely kind

55:45

people there and lovely experiences

55:48

and I birthed my daughter there so that will always

55:50

be special for me. You

55:53

birthed your daughter? Yes. Can you tell

55:55

me what that means? I had a home birth

55:57

there. Oh wow. Yeah. That

56:00

must have been a little scary. Not

56:02

for me. No. I

56:05

guess I don't have a fear of death. Do you

56:07

feel that

56:08

your path is this path because

56:11

of your childhood? Or do you think you

56:13

might have been innately destined to follow this kind

56:15

of path?

56:16

I think it's a bit of both. I

56:18

guess

56:18

I've always felt like a bit of a black sheep

56:19

in society, so that makes it easier

56:22

to not miss it. Can

56:24

you talk to me about your childhood?

56:26

I'm sure as a little girl I yearned

56:28

for this

56:29

loving figure that had

56:31

nurtured me since birth. It's

56:34

definitely been in my

56:36

consciousness throughout my life. And

56:38

because I had hoped

56:41

and believed that she was alive for a long time, and

56:44

although I had abandonment issues, I

56:47

don't believe she's actually alive anymore. It

56:50

was a taboo subject. No one in the family

56:52

talked about it. If someone from the

56:55

outer circles, like maybe one of our cousins

56:57

or something, mentioned her, it was just kind of this uncomfortable

57:00

silence. And yeah,

57:02

I think more recently Dad

57:04

started talking about my mum a little bit,

57:06

and

57:06

I would start asking more questions since

57:08

I got older and realise, oh hang on, no,

57:11

I'm not going to keep quiet.

57:12

And

57:15

that then led to further

57:17

interviews and you went on 60 Minutes

57:19

and so on. How did you cope with

57:22

going from being unknown

57:25

and anonymous to

57:28

suddenly you're thrust into the middle of this

57:31

podcast and this story that has

57:33

not just become prominent in Australia,

57:36

but has ended up

57:38

being listened to by millions

57:40

of people around the world?

57:42

I think because I don't really

57:45

engage with

57:47

media and I don't have a TV

57:49

or anything like that, it sort of has buffered

57:51

a little bit for me. I mean my

57:53

choice to remain silent, I

57:56

guess no one was really asking me or approaching

57:58

me up until you did. I

58:00

wasn't purposely, I guess,

58:02

hiding or anything like that, but I was also

58:05

not quite ready to

58:07

tell the world that I believed it was my dad because

58:09

I was still

58:10

trying to maintain my relationship with my sister.

58:13

And I guess on some level protecting my daughter.

58:16

And the other thing that might end up on

58:18

the cutting room floor, or it might be funny

58:20

for Claire to use, is one

58:22

of the most embarrassing moments I've had. Oh

58:25

no, sorry. I need to hear this now. I

58:27

really need to hear this.

58:30

I was never going to share that moment. You're

58:32

welcome

58:33

to. Well, we started

58:35

interviewing on the deck of Chanel's

58:37

cottage in Harvey Bay. And the

58:41

sound recordist, he was there with these

58:43

boom mics and all of his equipment. And

58:46

I was trying to look intelligent and

58:48

the bane. And Chanel was

58:51

doing an amazing job answering our

58:53

questions. And then there's this really awful

58:56

cracking noise. And

58:59

I broke one of her very few chairs. In

59:03

Headley's

59:03

defence, it was probably ready to break.

59:05

I wasn't worried about the chair. I was worried

59:07

more about Headley's ego.

59:09

Slightly bruised, both ego

59:12

and body. I

59:16

wondered if you would read a little

59:18

passage from the book.

59:20

Okay.

59:21

I believe I've always known this truth

59:23

and have repressed the memories. It

59:26

might seem obvious to many others, but

59:28

those who have known my dad's good side understand

59:31

the disbelief. All of a sudden,

59:33

so much made sense.

59:36

The snapshots of incoherent memories.

59:39

Also the lack of childhood memories. Some

59:42

of those flashes of weird moments I've had

59:44

with dad, where the cracks have shown. The

59:47

way my mother's memory was banished and

59:49

we never spoke of her, nor had any

59:51

photos of her. Mentioned her birthday

59:53

or anything about her. Also

59:56

what now seems so clearly linked.

59:58

My trust issues with men. the type

1:00:00

of relationships I

1:00:01

had co-created, as well as

1:00:03

the stress response my body would have when I

1:00:05

saw my father. On

1:00:08

the one hand, my mother abandonment issues

1:00:10

dissolved and the belief returned

1:00:13

to my very core that my mother

1:00:15

really did love us and would never have left

1:00:17

her two beloved daughters and loving family

1:00:19

willingly. But on the other

1:00:22

hand, now the massive bloody

1:00:24

rule wounding around my father lay

1:00:27

exposed and needed tending.

1:00:30

And it reminded me of

1:00:33

your victim impact statement and

1:00:35

I was sitting in court the day that

1:00:38

you came in

1:00:40

to read that.

1:00:46

Why didn't you just divorce her?

1:00:48

Let those who love and needed her keep her?

1:00:52

Because of money? For God's

1:00:54

sake.

1:00:55

The way you

1:00:57

made her invisible and didn't

1:00:59

keep her memory alive for her children really

1:01:02

spoke of her and when you did it was with

1:01:04

disdain or disrespect. This

1:01:07

has been a massive gaping lacking hole

1:01:09

in my world which is partly filled in by

1:01:12

others but not by you.

1:01:15

Tell me a little bit about writing that statement

1:01:18

and

1:01:18

how you decided what you wanted to say

1:01:20

and what it was like to come into the court

1:01:22

and

1:01:23

face your father and deliver it.

1:01:25

I would feel like I'd be in the middle of doing

1:01:27

something and I'd feel just something come

1:01:30

through and I'd sit down or be the middle of the night or

1:01:32

something and I'd wake up to kind of jot down a

1:01:34

paragraph or two or whatever kind of

1:01:37

came through and then I could feel this as hell. It

1:01:39

was for me writing my book too. It

1:01:41

felt like it was sort of channeling through me,

1:01:44

not really from me. I could

1:01:46

feel when it wanted to come through and I could feel when

1:01:48

it had finished. I kept

1:01:51

having panic attacks at the thought of seeing my

1:01:53

dad. I knew

1:01:55

it would be really really really confronting

1:01:57

but I also felt like it was the greatest opportunity.

1:02:00

for healing.

1:02:01

In an ideal world he would

1:02:27

I

1:02:34

was definitely not looking

1:02:36

very loving or very

1:02:38

regretful or anything

1:02:40

like that. It

1:02:42

was really intense

1:02:44

for me the rest of the room just sort of disappeared

1:02:46

in that moment.

1:02:47

Like a lot of people who come in to give victim

1:02:50

impact statements it's a massive moment in

1:02:52

their lives whereas for the judge and everyone

1:02:54

sitting there, this is just their day. Something

1:02:57

that was powerful about it was that

1:03:00

you got to speak and he had to be silent

1:03:02

which is very rare in father-daughter

1:03:05

relationships or

1:03:07

maybe any kind of conversation isn't it? But there's

1:03:09

a one-way

1:03:10

conversation.

1:03:11

Yeah and certainly with his and my

1:03:13

dynamic you didn't call my father

1:03:16

out for things and I,

1:03:18

perhaps that's one of my flaws is I do that

1:03:20

probably too much to people. So yeah

1:03:22

it was my chance to be able to just give

1:03:25

it back to him and hopefully not carry

1:03:27

it on my shoulders anymore. I

1:03:30

know myself pretty well and I know

1:03:32

my capabilities and my capacity and

1:03:34

I just knew I couldn't be in there anymore with

1:03:36

him. So I escaped right away and

1:03:39

went straight to the Botanical Gardens and got

1:03:41

baffled on the earth and just sat

1:03:44

with my friend

1:03:44

Trish from the victim services

1:03:47

and

1:03:48

I guess kind of debriefed a bit. The

1:03:51

next day I could barely speak

1:03:53

and I was kind of grateful that I just

1:03:55

got to get myself to the airport and

1:03:58

sit on a plane and not have to talk to anyone and...

1:03:59

so I picked my daughter up. I

1:04:02

was really, I guess, disassociated,

1:04:05

quite traumatised by seeing him.

1:04:07

We were able to

1:04:09

come together at a very traumatic

1:04:12

time, a time when I wanted

1:04:14

to investigate the

1:04:16

murder of her mother. That

1:04:19

would inevitably lead to her

1:04:21

further being put in a really difficult position. And

1:04:25

I didn't believe when I started the teacher's pet

1:04:27

investigation, that

1:04:29

Shadel would want to be

1:04:31

a part of it. Almost six years ago

1:04:33

that we had our first meeting, and we've had

1:04:36

many, many catch-ups and conversations

1:04:38

since then. And I think a lot of

1:04:41

care and respect and love.

1:04:44

Thanks, Hebbly. And obviously,

1:04:46

I don't think I would have had the

1:04:48

opportunity to write this book had it not been for

1:04:50

you and all of the people involved,

1:04:53

Claire, of course, in creating the

1:04:55

teacher's pet. I'm sure you

1:04:57

know as well, but I know how much my family

1:04:59

will always really, really

1:05:02

appreciate you and your role

1:05:04

in helping bring the truth to life.

1:05:06

I think I told you at one point in

1:05:08

our conversations

1:05:10

that I was going to find you a Superman cape

1:05:12

or something like that. So... Do

1:05:16

you see yourself ever being able to visit

1:05:18

your father?

1:05:20

Or do you think you could only do that and

1:05:22

possibly start on the road to

1:05:24

forgiveness if he acknowledged what had happened?

1:05:27

I

1:05:28

have been working on forgiveness more

1:05:30

for myself than for his sake. So

1:05:33

I don't carry the toxic

1:05:35

grief.

1:05:37

My daughter did say to me one day, can

1:05:40

she go and visit

1:05:42

her grandfather in jail? And I

1:05:44

went, oh, I hadn't actually even occurred

1:05:46

to me that

1:05:47

we might do that. And then I

1:05:49

thought about visiting

1:05:50

him just for myself. I

1:05:53

certainly do feel like I

1:05:55

might want or need to

1:05:57

at some point

1:05:59

before he dies.

1:05:59

But

1:06:01

I'm also really well aware of the fact he might not

1:06:03

even want to see me. If

1:06:05

he's feeling betrayed by my actions

1:06:07

and my participation in things and standing

1:06:11

up to him in court, he very

1:06:13

likely probably doesn't want to see me because on some

1:06:15

level he might even blame me for the fact that he's

1:06:17

incarcerated.

1:06:19

And he has told you, hasn't he? He

1:06:22

swears he has never laid a finger

1:06:24

on your mother.

1:06:26

Yeah, and he really

1:06:29

looked and felt like he believed it. I'm

1:06:32

not sure if we'll ever get the truth from my dad,

1:06:34

but I do believe there are other people who

1:06:36

know the truth, so I'm hopeful that one of

1:06:38

them might want to lighten

1:06:41

their conscience at some point.

1:06:44

My gratitude

1:06:45

to you goes way beyond just the teacher's

1:06:47

pet. There's so many other ways

1:06:49

that you've been supportive and, you know, 60 minutes

1:06:52

wouldn't have happened without you.

1:06:54

And that has helped me in my life in

1:06:56

multiple ways and more people will hear about

1:06:59

my book.

1:07:00

Stay with us after this break, some

1:07:03

reflections from our friend and colleague

1:07:05

Matthew Condon on Chris Dawson's long

1:07:08

road away from his childhood home

1:07:10

and back again.

1:07:15

Flat on the ground, he contemplates

1:07:17

two stars, his eyes and

1:07:19

his hair,

1:07:21

his youthful cheeks and ivory

1:07:23

neck. The beauty of his face,

1:07:26

the rose flush mingled in the whiteness

1:07:28

of snow,

1:07:29

admiring everything for which he himself

1:07:32

admired. This is the

1:07:34

famous story of Narcissus,

1:07:37

told by the classical Roman poet Ovid

1:07:40

in his epic work Metamorphosis.

1:07:43

How often he gave his lips in vain to

1:07:45

the deceptive pool.

1:07:47

How often, trying to embrace the

1:07:49

neck he could see, he plunged his

1:07:51

arms into the water but could not catch

1:07:54

himself within them. Narcissus

1:07:56

obsession with his own reflection,

1:07:59

as we know,

1:07:59

destroyed him. What

1:08:02

might Ovid, that keen-eyed

1:08:04

and crafty wordsmith, have

1:08:06

observed in the New South Wales Supreme

1:08:08

and District Courts over the past 16

1:08:11

months, during the respective

1:08:14

murder and carnal knowledge trials

1:08:16

of modern former schoolteacher Christopher

1:08:19

Michael Dawson,

1:08:21

would Ovid have sat in the public

1:08:23

gallery and instantly recognized

1:08:26

his narcissus?

1:08:28

The poet's interest might have been more keenly

1:08:30

tweaked on Wednesday, May 18

1:08:34

last year, when evidence presented

1:08:36

before Justice Ian Harrison in

1:08:38

Dawson's trial for murdering his wife Lynne

1:08:41

revealed that on a greeting card to his

1:08:43

schoolgirl lover Dawson

1:08:46

had purely and simply referred

1:08:48

to himself as God. During

1:08:52

her evidence in chief at the murder

1:08:54

trial, the witness was asked by

1:08:56

Crown Prosecutor Craig Everson about

1:08:59

the flurry of cards, notes and

1:09:01

love letters that her teacher Dawson

1:09:03

had given her over time. She

1:09:06

was asked about a particular card where

1:09:08

Dawson had signed it, Love

1:09:10

Always, God. The

1:09:13

issue of the Supreme Deity was

1:09:15

also discussed in Dawson's recent carnal

1:09:18

knowledge trial when Crown Prosecutor

1:09:20

Emma Blizzard questioned the former

1:09:23

schoolgirl. We've used voice

1:09:25

actors to bring you their words.

1:09:28

Do you recognize the item I've just shown you? Yes.

1:09:31

What is it? It's a Christmas card the accused

1:09:33

gave to me on Christmas of 1980. Can

1:09:36

you see some handwritten words starting with the

1:09:38

word once underneath Happy Christmas?

1:09:41

Yes.

1:09:42

You recognize that handwriting? Yes.

1:09:44

Can I ask you to read the card?

1:09:47

Once or twice every minute, Love

1:09:49

Always, God. Those

1:09:51

words once or twice every minute, do

1:09:53

they mean something to you? Yes. It's

1:09:56

the title of the words of the song he gave me

1:09:58

a record of when he was...

1:09:59

During the grooming

1:10:01

stage, he gave me a record that

1:10:03

was about this song called Once

1:10:05

or Twice, Every Minute. The words underneath

1:10:07

it, love always God.

1:10:10

He referred to himself as God. He

1:10:12

was trying to disguise who he was at that point

1:10:14

and his writing's a bit different to what he, you

1:10:17

know, he's trying to disguise who he was in that card.

1:10:20

In a peculiarly Australian way in the

1:10:23

1970s and 80s, Dawson had

1:10:25

every reason to believe he was just that.

1:10:28

His kingdom was Sydney's northern beaches,

1:10:31

his worshippers the children that surrounded

1:10:33

him every day at work,

1:10:35

and almost everybody else who encountered

1:10:38

him. He was tall, blonde,

1:10:41

handsome, athletic, an

1:10:43

admired professional sportsman, fashion

1:10:46

model, and revered school teacher

1:10:48

who didn't drink, smoke, or gamble.

1:10:52

What would have particularly tickled over its

1:10:54

fancy was the fact that Chris

1:10:57

had an identical twin brother, Paul.

1:11:00

These narcissists didn't need a pond

1:11:02

in which to adore their own reflections.

1:11:05

They had each other.

1:11:07

As long as they were in close proximity, they

1:11:09

could perpetually admire themselves,

1:11:13

the stars of their eyes, their youthful

1:11:15

cheeks,

1:11:17

and ivory necks.

1:11:19

That self-worship was no better

1:11:21

exemplified than in the 1970s

1:11:24

ABC documentary about

1:11:26

twinship on the Checkerboard program

1:11:29

featuring the Dawson twins.

1:11:31

They were interviewed about their rare and unusual

1:11:34

relationship,

1:11:36

a paradigm where they were born

1:11:38

a mirror to each other's beauty

1:11:40

and greatness. This

1:11:43

is from Checkerboard.

1:11:45

I don't think two human beings can

1:11:47

be exactly the same. You know, it'd be very hard

1:11:49

to find two human beings. They don't know exactly the same.

1:11:51

If you put any two twins together,

1:11:53

I think you can always pick some difference.

1:11:56

Obviously, as we get older and more, we're playing a physical

1:11:58

content spotlight. Our

1:12:01

similarities will diminish, but

1:12:04

our physical status is still very much the same.

1:12:07

Our body shape and height and weight, complexion.

1:12:11

Quite often

1:12:12

you'll see a reflection of yourself and

1:12:15

straight away you think, it's the

1:12:17

other one, it is your twin brother. Of

1:12:19

course on realisation that it's

1:12:22

obviously yourself, you sort of have a little chuckle

1:12:25

inwardly that you yourself could be

1:12:27

confused. Our whole lives really

1:12:29

are mirrored reflections of each other.

1:12:32

There it is, the

1:12:33

mirror.

1:12:35

It struck me listening to this that Chris Dawson,

1:12:37

clearly an alpha male,

1:12:39

reeking of confidence with his model good looks

1:12:42

and physical strength,

1:12:43

had discovered his potent attractiveness

1:12:46

to the opposite sex. Some

1:12:49

men never recognise this in themselves,

1:12:52

but many others do.

1:12:54

And combined with a healthy narcissism,

1:12:57

it can be a lethal weapon. It

1:13:00

served, to my mind, another

1:13:02

purpose for Dawson.

1:13:04

Here in his late twenties,

1:13:06

married and with two small children, this

1:13:08

powerful personal sense of invincibility,

1:13:11

of knowing he could take whatever he

1:13:14

wanted whenever he wanted,

1:13:16

arrested his emotional intelligence,

1:13:19

stopped it dead in its tracks

1:13:22

and trapped him for all time, in

1:13:24

what songwriters and poets might

1:13:27

call his

1:13:27

glory days.

1:13:30

And that this, more importantly,

1:13:32

was a major albeit hidden contributor

1:13:35

to his decision to murder his wife

1:13:37

Lynette when he did, in

1:13:39

order to possess the object of his

1:13:41

obsession, the former schoolgirl. Was

1:13:44

this trait so deeply embedded

1:13:46

in his narcissism,

1:13:48

that Dawson himself

1:13:50

might not have consciously been aware of it?

1:13:53

Before the murder trial, I saw the occasional

1:13:55

television news reports on Dawson,

1:13:58

him stalking away from nosy TV

1:14:00

cameras

1:14:01

scowling and growling at

1:14:03

this sudden intrusion on his quiet

1:14:05

life in the foothills of Mount Coulombe

1:14:08

on Queensland's Sunshine Coast. In

1:14:11

these candid moments he appeared

1:14:13

to be a well-preserved, fit-looking

1:14:16

man for his age, nicely

1:14:18

tanned and always attired in something,

1:14:21

sports shorts, runners, and funky

1:14:23

sunglasses

1:14:25

that hinted at a life of outdoor

1:14:27

activity.

1:14:28

He regularly walked the pristine beaches

1:14:31

just east of Mount Coulombe and took

1:14:33

a dip in the ocean. Although

1:14:35

Dawson was a teacher of physical education,

1:14:38

he could hardly have not been aware of

1:14:40

the dream time story of his

1:14:42

mountain, a dome 208 metres

1:14:45

above sea level

1:14:47

and covered in a stubble of montane

1:14:49

heath, shrubs, and stunted

1:14:52

trees

1:14:52

north of Maruchador and south of

1:14:55

Nusa.

1:14:56

Beneath those neat and well-manicured

1:14:59

suburban streets around the base

1:15:01

of 21st Century Mount Coulombe,

1:15:04

where Dawson lived before becoming a convicted

1:15:06

murderer, under the golf courses

1:15:09

and resorts and boulevards and crescents

1:15:11

called boardwalk and beach

1:15:13

haven and spinnaker and why haven,

1:15:16

there is a story in the sand and

1:15:18

soil,

1:15:20

a deadly tale about the heat of passion

1:15:23

and the consequences of disrespecting accepted

1:15:25

customs, a story

1:15:28

as age-old as Narcissus.

1:15:31

How peculiar it now seems that

1:15:33

the man who likened himself to God seemed

1:15:36

to attract or strangely become tangled

1:15:39

in myth-like scenarios.

1:15:42

Narcissus,

1:15:43

the warrior Coulombe, slain

1:15:45

by a rival over his lover Marucci.

1:15:49

Then the real life of Dawson

1:15:52

was turned upside down.

1:15:54

positive

1:16:00

information for us, that

1:16:02

information enabled New South

1:16:05

Wales police to get an arrest

1:16:07

warrant for a 70 year old

1:16:10

man currently living in

1:16:12

Queensland. That

1:16:14

warrant was executed this morning,

1:16:16

a 70 year old man

1:16:18

was arrested and is currently

1:16:21

waiting to go before the courts in

1:16:24

Queensland to face extradition

1:16:27

to New South Wales. We

1:16:29

spoke to the family of Lynette Dawson

1:16:32

this morning who was certainly

1:16:34

relieved to hear this result

1:16:37

and from their perspective they have

1:16:40

asked for some patience

1:16:42

in terms of their confidentiality going.

1:16:47

Almost four years after his arrest,

1:16:49

on the opening day of Dawson's murder trial

1:16:51

in the Sydney Supreme Court,

1:16:54

God had been replaced by

1:16:56

a rickety old man. Watching

1:16:59

him sitting in court behind his legal counsel,

1:17:02

I wrote in my notes during that first

1:17:04

week of the trial.

1:17:06

Dawson limping as he comes into court,

1:17:09

sits behind his legal counsel

1:17:11

directly beneath the courtroom clock,

1:17:14

occasionally scratches some notes on a pad

1:17:18

otherwise motionless.

1:17:20

No emotion until the witness

1:17:22

is called to the stand.

1:17:25

He glances repeatedly towards the courtroom

1:17:27

door

1:17:28

as she enters,

1:17:29

briefly brings his left hand to his forehead.

1:17:33

When the witness talks about sex with Dawson,

1:17:35

he writes furiously his

1:17:37

head down.

1:17:40

Sometimes he puts a hand over his mouth

1:17:42

but little if no animation,

1:17:45

just outside the court,

1:17:47

was putting some waste paper in the bin at

1:17:49

the same time as Dawson was

1:17:51

dropping in an empty can of coke.

1:17:54

He hesitates and says to me,

1:17:56

excuse me. The

1:17:57

most words I've heard him say are weak.

1:18:01

For the duration of the ten-week trial, during

1:18:04

relentless adjournments and morning tea and

1:18:06

lunch breaks,

1:18:07

it was possible to get within touching distance

1:18:10

of Dawson.

1:18:11

He seemed to master the art of

1:18:14

being present but not, making

1:18:17

no eye contact, rendering himself

1:18:20

invisible,

1:18:21

just as blue herons are

1:18:23

able to stand totally motionless,

1:18:26

tricking their prey into believing

1:18:29

they weren't there. Then

1:18:31

came the verdict.

1:18:33

Christopher Michael Dawson on the charts, the

1:18:35

donor about 8 January 1982 at Bayview, or

1:18:40

elsewhere in the state of New South Wales,

1:18:42

you did murder Lynette Dawson. I

1:18:45

find you guilty. You may sit down.

1:18:48

Dawson, it appeared to me,

1:18:50

instantly revealed a patina

1:18:52

of panic and confusion.

1:18:55

It appeared that part of him thought that despite

1:18:57

the judgement of guilty, he

1:18:59

might be able to fly home to Mount Cooleham,

1:19:02

take in a surf the next morning and worry

1:19:04

about the consequences later. He

1:19:07

was handcuffed, strong armed by two

1:19:09

prison guards, into the empty court dock

1:19:12

and bundled through the door to the cells

1:19:15

beneath the court building.

1:19:17

Mr Dawson, it will be necessary

1:19:19

for you to be taken into custody.

1:19:22

We didn't see Dawson again for almost three

1:19:25

months when he was installed in the dock of

1:19:27

Supreme Court 13A

1:19:29

for the reading of the victim impact statements

1:19:32

as part of his sentencing hearing.

1:19:34

This was the beginning of Dawson's

1:19:37

prison greens period.

1:19:39

This would be the wardrobe he would wear

1:19:41

for the rest of his natural life. When

1:19:44

his oldest daughter with Lyn, Chanel,

1:19:47

read out her impassioned plea to her

1:19:49

father

1:19:50

to reveal the location of her

1:19:52

mother's body, Dawson, looking

1:19:55

significantly older,

1:19:56

jowly and unhappy,

1:19:59

simply staring at her.

1:19:59

at his shoes,

1:20:01

and at sentencing before Justice Harrison

1:20:03

in early December,

1:20:05

there he was again,

1:20:06

beyond the dock glass,

1:20:08

bearing a miserable countenance,

1:20:10

the stars of the eyes extinguished,

1:20:14

the rose blush gone.

1:20:16

Narcissus

1:20:17

was pointlessly grasping

1:20:19

at his own distorted reflection.

1:20:23

It was only during the verdict and sentencing

1:20:25

in his recent carnal knowledge trial, however,

1:20:27

that we actually came close

1:20:29

to seeing the real Chris Dawson,

1:20:32

and were able to intuit his priorities

1:20:35

and concerns. Found

1:20:38

guilty by Judge Sarah Huggett of abusing

1:20:40

his position as a teacher,

1:20:42

and sexually assaulting one of his pupils

1:20:44

at Cromer High back in those

1:20:47

glory days, in those years

1:20:49

of understanding fully his power

1:20:52

and control, Dawson, appearing

1:20:55

via audio visual link, the

1:20:57

unfailingly polite Dawson uttered

1:21:00

a string of obscenities into a hot

1:21:02

mic

1:21:03

that could be heard throughout the courtroom.

1:21:09

He said,

1:21:09

whispering it angrily into the table

1:21:12

in front of him with his head lowered.

1:21:15

Why in the carnal knowledge trial

1:21:18

did he express more genuine anger

1:21:20

and frustration than at any

1:21:22

single moment during his trial

1:21:25

for murder?

1:21:26

At the beginning of this comparatively short

1:21:29

trial,

1:21:29

he appeared glazed over,

1:21:32

indifferent,

1:21:33

removed,

1:21:35

but by the end,

1:21:36

something cracked inside of him.

1:21:39

Could he have been linking the verdict in

1:21:41

the carnal knowledge trial to

1:21:43

the civil claim against the New

1:21:45

South Wales Education Department for

1:21:48

negligence in leaving her exposed

1:21:50

as a child to a predator

1:21:52

like Dawson, and the department's

1:21:55

counterclaim that it was not responsible,

1:21:58

and that the cost of any future prison payout

1:22:00

to the victim should be borne

1:22:02

by Dawson. If he was

1:22:04

found not guilty in the carnal knowledge

1:22:07

trial, then how could he be liable

1:22:10

for any payout in any impending

1:22:12

civil case? Did

1:22:15

it all, in the end,

1:22:17

come down to money?

1:22:19

The most profoundly telling moment of all,

1:22:21

however, was when Judge Huggett

1:22:24

sentenced Dawson to three years' jail

1:22:27

for the carnal knowledge offence. Here

1:22:30

was the man who once called himself God,

1:22:32

the golden child, the school

1:22:35

prefect, the admired teacher,

1:22:37

the revered sportsman,

1:22:39

the doting father,

1:22:40

literally trying to escape his

1:22:43

own shame. Up

1:22:45

on the court screen, he buried his

1:22:47

head in his hands.

1:22:49

One minute, he'd clasped them

1:22:52

into a double fist, the next

1:22:54

a steeple, as in the child's

1:22:57

game.

1:22:58

There were a few times too,

1:23:00

when he peered around the edge of

1:23:02

those raised hands, a little

1:23:04

boy unable to face the scolding,

1:23:07

the admonition, the total public

1:23:10

disgust in his behaviour. This

1:23:13

was narcissist falling to his

1:23:16

death, and in one single,

1:23:18

unforgettable instant, after

1:23:21

years of this seemingly interminable

1:23:23

saga, Dawson's left eye

1:23:26

was exposed and in clear

1:23:28

view, just to the side of

1:23:30

those clasped hands,

1:23:32

and it was the eye not of a naughty

1:23:35

boy or even a chronic narcissist,

1:23:37

but the cold, dead eye

1:23:40

of a killer.

1:23:47

Thanks for joining us for this final episode,

1:23:49

for now, of The

1:23:50

Teacher's Accuser. The episode

1:23:52

was written in part and narrated by

1:23:55

National Chief Correspondent, Headley Thomas, with

1:23:57

assistance and contributions from Senora

1:23:59

de Matthew. Conden and me, editorial

1:24:02

director Claire Harvey. Our producer

1:24:04

is Kristin Amiet. Audio production

1:24:07

is by Jasper Leake with assistance from

1:24:09

Josh Burton and our theme music

1:24:11

is by Wasabi Audio. Every

1:24:13

weekday our news podcast The Front brings

1:24:16

you candid analysis from our journals

1:24:18

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1:24:21

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