0:00

This

0:01

podcast contains allegations of

0:03

sexual and family violence. It

0:05

won't be suitable for everyone. You

0:07

can contact the National Sexual Assault, Domestic

0:10

and Family Violence Counselling Service

0:13

on 1800RESPECT.

0:15

This is episode five of The Teacher's

0:18

Accuser. It's brought to you by The

0:20

Australian. Christopher

0:26

Michael Dawson, you did murder Lynette

0:28

Dawson. It's in the making.

0:31

Chris Dawson. Chris Dawson. Chris Dawson.

0:33

Chris Dawson found guilty of murdering

0:35

wife Lynette at Bayview 40 years ago. A

0:39

four decade campaign for justice has

0:41

come to an extraordinary end. I

0:43

find you guilty. The former school

0:45

teacher is destined to die behind

0:48

bars. Mr Dawson, I sentence

0:50

you to imprisonment for 24 years. My

0:54

name is Hedley

0:55

Thomas and I'm a journalist with a particular

0:57

interest in podcast investigations

1:00

into the murders of women in Australia. Last

1:03

year Christopher Michael Dawson was convicted

1:05

of the 1982 murder of his wife Lynette. After

1:10

four decades of freedom, Dawson

1:12

is now serving a 24 year

1:14

sentence. It's justice at long

1:16

last for his terrible crime. And

1:19

now Dawson faces allegations

1:21

that he groomed and sexually assaulted

1:24

a former female

1:25

student at a Northern Beaches high school

1:27

where he taught in the early 1980s. The

1:30

trial will play out in the New South Wales

1:33

District Court in Sydney. You

1:35

can follow the case at the newspaper's

1:37

digital site and at theteachersaccuser.com.au.

1:47

I'm just going into what we were

1:49

talking about a while ago. You

1:53

say you first met Christopher in about 1979, 1980? Yes.

1:57

And that's when you were a student at Crown High School? Yes.

1:59

Can you just outline the circumstances

2:02

in relation to that done at the meeting? Well,

2:06

he was a teacher at the school. He came

2:08

to the school in 1979 and

2:11

took the class that I was in,

2:13

sports coaching class in year 11, 1980.

2:17

I wonder about how old were you then? All

2:20

right. Can you tell me what sort of relationship

2:23

was formed after that?

2:30

I'm Claire Harvey, host of the Australian's

2:33

daily news podcast, The Front. The

2:35

voice you just heard was a woman we

2:37

can only identify as AB. When

2:40

that audio was recorded, she was sitting in a

2:42

police station on Sydney's Northern Beaches

2:45

with Detective Damian Loon. He

2:48

was, at that time, investigating the disappearance

2:50

of Chris Dawson's wife, Lynette. Listeners

2:53

to the teacher's accuser will know that 25 years later, AB

2:57

would become the complainant in Chris

2:59

Dawson's trial for carnal knowledge.

3:02

And on Wednesday, June 28,

3:05

2023, it ended with Dawson being found

3:07

guilty for the second time in the

3:09

space of a year. He was charged with

3:11

one count of carnal knowledge of a

3:14

16-year-old girl who was his student in 1980.

3:17

And on the basis of the evidence presented

3:20

to her over the course of this nine-day trial,

3:22

Judge Sarah Huggett found Dawson

3:25

did commit that crime.

3:26

Here's the verdict as it was read to the court

3:29

by her honour. It's her actual voice

3:31

which you'll hear throughout this episode.

3:34

While none of this evidence is capable alone

3:37

or collectively of proving the offence charged,

3:40

I find it provides powerful support for

3:42

the complainant's evidence that the accused

3:44

committed an act of carnal knowledge while

3:46

she was 16 years of age and his

3:49

pupil. I do not consider

3:51

that the inconsistencies in the complainant's

3:53

evidence, including her failure to

3:55

recall certain matters as such, as

3:57

to shed doubt on the truthfulness of

4:00

her evidence and the accuracy of her evidence

4:02

as to critical matters. On the basis

4:05

of the complainant's evidence supported by

4:07

the evidence identified in these reasons, I

4:10

am satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that

4:12

the accused committed the offence charged

4:14

and find him guilty.

4:17

More than 40 years after she was first abused

4:20

by the teacher who she would go on to marry, A.B.

4:23

has been vindicated. In

4:25

this episode, we'll delve into Judge Huggitt's

4:27

meticulous and detailed judgment, sharing

4:30

our reactions to a verdict 40

4:32

years in the making. You'll

4:34

hear about Chris Dawson's foul-mouthed

4:37

outburst at the judge's finding, as

4:39

well as what it means for other victims

4:42

and the family of Lynette, whose

4:44

story is inextricably linked to

4:46

this one.

4:47

I'm joined by National Crime Correspondent

4:49

David Murray, Senior Reporter Matthew

4:51

Condon and National Chief Correspondent

4:54

and creator of the teacher's pet, Headley Thomas,

4:56

who's joining us from Rome.

5:01

Justice has been delivered to

5:04

Chris Dawson's second wife,

5:07

the schoolgirl from Cromer High,

5:09

who got the ball rolling in 1990 when

5:11

she left him and

5:14

went to police

5:16

to raise her suspicions of

5:18

a murder. I thought at the

5:20

end the real Chris Dawson showed himself

5:23

after the judge left the courtroom and

5:25

the live stream was still on. It's not

5:27

clear whether he was aware of that or not, but he let

5:29

out a string of expletives.

5:35

And although he'd been so polite and so deferential

5:38

throughout the trial, he was clearly angry,

5:41

bitter,

5:42

not admitting anything, which is consistent

5:45

with everything we know about him.

5:46

Below the surface in Chris Dawson

5:49

there's a seething angry man and

5:51

you see it at times like this. As

5:54

David Jenkins, Lyn's nephew,

5:57

said afterwards,

5:58

it's understandable that that he would be

6:00

angry. But Chris Dawson's fury

6:04

over this conviction after his

6:06

conviction in the murder case really

6:08

just completes the circle.

6:11

He's now known as the sexual predator of

6:13

an underage student.

6:15

And the hatred that he has for

6:18

the mother of his

6:21

third daughter, a girl

6:23

who was conceived at Bayview

6:26

soon after Lynn Dawson had

6:28

disappeared,

6:29

the hatred he has for her is

6:32

palpable. I was reading part

6:34

of the transcript of an intercepted

6:36

phone conversation that Chris Dawson

6:38

was having. And the conversations

6:41

were occurring in September 2018 when

6:44

the Teaches Pet podcast

6:46

was being very widely shared.

6:49

There was a media frenzy and international

6:52

interest in this case. And Chris

6:54

was lamenting the fact that he was

6:56

in this position.

6:58

He was talking about his

6:59

three wives. He described Susan,

7:01

his third wife, as the best of them all. He

7:04

talked about Lynn, but not fondly.

7:06

And in relation to his second wife,

7:09

the student, the woman who is his

7:11

accuser in this kind of knowledge

7:14

trial,

7:15

he said, I had a relationship

7:17

and then I married the bitch. That's

7:20

how he described her.

7:22

The magnitude of this for me is still

7:24

settling in, I think. It's hard to think that just

7:26

over five years ago, Chris Dawson

7:29

was relaxing on the beach on Queensland's

7:31

Sunshine Coast. His life was completely different.

7:34

And here we were again, seeing

7:37

him being convicted of a second criminal

7:39

offense. And we

7:41

saw during the trial, just how much this

7:44

meant to the complainant, A.B.

7:46

Chris Dawson's former wife. She said during

7:48

the trial, I just wanna be believed. And

7:51

she was believed

7:52

emphatically in this verdict.

7:57

She appeared willing to provide as much detail

7:59

as she could. could but did not appear

8:01

to embellish her evidence. At

8:03

times she said things that provided insight

8:06

into her state of mind in 1980 and 1981. On occasion

8:08

she got upset and on occasion she

8:13

appeared frustrated and at times appeared

8:15

eager to have the matter reach a resolution.

8:19

However overall she was a calm

8:21

and responsive witness. It

8:23

is clear to me that at times the complainant's

8:26

memory for aspects of detail was wanting.

8:29

That is hardly surprising given the significant

8:31

passage of time since count one is

8:33

alleged to have been committed. The

8:36

passage of time however makes it

8:38

even more important that in accordance

8:40

with the directions I have given myself I

8:42

scrutinise the complainant's evidence carefully

8:45

when deciding whether the prosecution has

8:47

satisfied me that her evidence is

8:49

honest and is sufficiently accurate

8:52

as to critical matters to act upon. Recognising

8:55

that there is a possibility of

8:57

distortion in human recollection given

9:00

the complainant's evidence relates

9:02

to events decades

9:03

ago. In

9:06

many ways her journey has

9:09

been selfless in

9:11

that when she went to the police

9:14

in 1990 and continued

9:16

talking with the police as they investigated

9:19

through the late 90s

9:22

and up to this point

9:24

her objective was

9:27

to see Chris Dawson held accountable

9:29

for the murder that she suspected he

9:32

had carried out. She wasn't

9:34

attempting to have

9:37

him put on trial for

9:39

this sexual offence. Her

9:42

statements at that time contained

9:45

evidence that made it plain

9:47

that on the face of it there was a sexual offence.

9:50

She was a child in the eyes of

9:52

the law when the offending

9:55

was occurring but she was not trying

9:57

to run that. She wasn't putting pressure on the

9:59

police.

9:59

to have him charged over this.

10:02

And I think that it just gives the lie to

10:04

the claim by Chris Dawson

10:07

that

10:08

this was all about the fallout

10:10

of a messy marriage breakdown and

10:12

so on. If that were the case, she

10:14

would have tried to get in for one or the

10:17

other, but she didn't. It was about the murder

10:19

and probably her great

10:22

remorse over what had happened

10:24

to Lynn, following Lynn's welcoming

10:26

of her into the family home at Bayview

10:29

as a babysitter. And then as

10:32

someone who needed lodging, who needed support

10:35

and shelter during the final

10:37

months of her high school period,

10:39

where she was studying for her high school certificate.

10:44

While there was obviously a relationship

10:46

between the complainant and the accused,

10:48

which commenced in circumstances that

10:51

she believed involved grooming when

10:53

she was vulnerable and culminated

10:55

in marriage and the birth of a child, followed

10:58

by a demise of that relationship, I

11:01

did not form an impression that the complainant was

11:03

motivated by a desire to give deliberately

11:06

false evidence or that she was vindictive.

11:10

Judge Sarah Huggett acknowledged that in

11:12

her findings.

11:13

She said that previously it had been

11:16

all about Chris Dawson's first

11:18

wife, Lynn, the investigation

11:20

into her disappearance, what had happened to this mother

11:22

of two young girls who had just vanished off the face

11:25

of the earth. And A.B. had

11:27

given these various statements and evidence

11:29

over the years to police, at the

11:32

inquest, to education department

11:34

employees, but the focus had never

11:36

been on what had happened to her with

11:39

Chris Dawson. And the judge said

11:41

it was understandable that some

11:43

things hadn't been mentioned in those earlier

11:46

statements by A.B. because she and everyone

11:48

else were focused on Lynn. So that

11:50

helped

11:51

the judge be satisfied that what A.B.

11:53

was telling her at this trial was credible.

11:59

investigations was locating Lynette

12:02

Dawson. To suggest the complainant

12:05

should have gone into the intimate and personal

12:07

detail of her interactions with

12:09

the accused prior to 2018 is

12:12

a suggestion I reject.

12:13

Heddley,

12:15

you mentioned this sort of subterranean

12:18

anger that this man possesses. On

12:21

Verdict Day, he was a very, very different

12:24

Christopher Dawson than we've seen in

12:27

that tiny cubicle of an audiovisual

12:29

room.

12:30

We'd seen him at the beginning of the trial and he had this

12:32

sort of goofy, lost old

12:35

man look about him in the court. Then

12:38

he went to Audiovisual Link and he had

12:40

a sort of glazed indifference. On

12:43

Verdict Day, he was sharp, he

12:45

was attentive, his eyes were very

12:47

dark, his mouth was set in

12:49

a slit straight across,

12:52

he was shaking his head and he was

12:54

reacting throughout Judge

12:57

Huggett's verdict.

12:59

I felt he was trying to contain

13:02

this rage that he has. I felt that

13:04

coming off him just by observing

13:06

him for those two and a half hours. After

13:09

he lets loose with a swear word

13:11

right after the judge walks out of court,

13:14

we saw him stand up, go

13:16

to the door at Long Bay Jail. It's

13:18

open for him. We heard a voice say,

13:20

how did you go? Did you get a verdict? And

13:22

he effectively just grunted in reply.

13:25

The moments where he was most

13:27

angry and reacting most expressively,

13:30

I thought, were when the judge was really

13:33

expressing her disapproval of

13:35

him. She referred numerous

13:37

times to the way that he described himself

13:39

as God. It was clear

13:41

that Judge Huggett believed what

13:44

A.B. said about his use

13:46

of the term God.

13:47

In fact, he did it in his own handwriting.

13:49

Love always God on that 1980

13:52

Christmas card. The judge said

13:54

that despite Claire Wosley's attempt

13:56

to set out that Chris Dawson had been showing

13:58

up at the time and tied her hotel in

14:00

some sort of protective counselling

14:03

way to talk to A.B. about her

14:04

terrible home life. In fact, he

14:07

sat there talking about himself,

14:09

which was consistent with a personality of

14:11

someone who

14:12

would describe himself as God. I

14:16

find that the reason the accused attended the

14:18

hotel was because he was interested

14:20

and attracted to the complainant and

14:23

interested in endearing himself to

14:25

her. That was why he surprised

14:27

her and sat there talking about himself,

14:30

behaviour that is consistent with a person

14:32

who on occasion referred to himself as

14:35

God. At

14:37

that moment, I saw Dawson reacting really

14:39

strongly, shaking his head, muttering. Later

14:42

on he dropped his head close to the desk

14:44

in front of him. It seems to me like he

14:46

doesn't like being disliked. He certainly

14:48

doesn't like being disbelieved, which

14:51

must make life interesting in Long Bay.

14:53

It would be a fascinating study for

14:56

a psychiatrist. What

14:58

are we looking at here in Chris

15:00

Dawson? I think he's not the

15:03

child molester that we all imagine

15:05

in our nightmares,

15:05

the creepy old man in a trench

15:07

coat. As time goes on, we're

15:10

learning what pedophilia really is.

15:13

It is the charming, charismatic

15:16

groomer. It's someone who's able

15:18

to get young people alone and

15:21

win their trust. That's

15:23

the difference between child sex offending

15:25

and other types of sex offending, I think,

15:27

where it might occur in really violent

15:30

circumstances. These offenders

15:33

conduct their crimes with this veneer

15:35

of charm and of persuasion,

15:38

and that's why

15:38

their victims often don't realise

15:41

that they're being offended against

15:42

until many years later, and that was the case

15:44

with A.B.

15:47

Let's go back now to that 1998 police

15:50

interview A.B. did with Detective

15:52

Damian Loon on Sydney's Northern Beaches.

15:55

It was captured on cassette tape and

15:57

preserved for more than two decades.

16:00

be revisiting it throughout this episode.

16:03

He

16:11

was a teacher and I

16:17

don't know where to start I think. Yeah,

16:21

take your time, just go back and look in chronological

16:23

order.

16:25

Well, at the time I was having

16:28

problems with family at home and

16:31

I

16:32

guess I

16:34

felt that I could go to him with this problem because

16:36

he seemed to be drawn

16:38

to me some way. Well,

16:41

I'd say to being a person in authority you

16:43

thought you trusted him with your problems? Yes.

16:46

Okay.

16:46

And so I did and he took advantage

16:48

of that and

16:51

abused me, really.

16:53

It

16:58

wasn't until she'd left the marriage

17:01

that she'd obviously come to process that

17:03

Lynne had been murdered that she

17:05

realised that she was a victim too.

17:08

Here's how A.B. described that realisation

17:10

in cross-examination by public defender

17:12

Claire Wosley. We've used voice

17:14

actors to bring you their words

17:16

from court.

17:19

You feel that the accused took advantage of you when

17:21

you were vulnerable because of what was occurring in your

17:23

home life, don't you? I can't comment

17:25

on why he did what he did. I'm asking

17:27

you how you feel now. I feel

17:29

he, the accused, took advantage of

17:32

my vulnerability and the fact that he had power

17:34

in the relationship. It's the case that you've reflected

17:36

on the nature of your interactions with the accused

17:39

and you feel that you were groomed, isn't it? Yes.

17:43

Presumably, although we don't know this, she

17:45

felt guilty for many years about what she might

17:47

have thought was a romantic relationship that

17:49

she entered into voluntarily.

17:52

Of course, the law, even back in 1980 and

17:54

more so now,

17:55

holds that she didn't have the capacity

17:57

to consent at that age to this relationship.

18:00

with someone who was so much older and so much

18:02

more powerful than her. So, he is

18:05

a pedophile and I think we have

18:07

a court conviction to demonstrate

18:09

that. I actually think Judge Huggett

18:12

embedded in her verdict a

18:14

form of psychological or psychiatric

18:17

analysis in that. There are a number

18:19

of touch points. There was the man

18:21

who had the gall to call himself God.

18:23

So, we're talking about a prime narcissist.

18:26

She made reference to was this a man

18:29

as mature as his age indicated or

18:31

was this an adolescent teenager. There's

18:33

another aspect to this

18:35

character that we've seen time and again through the

18:37

murder trial and this trial. We seem

18:39

to have a man child here. Someone

18:42

who was frozen at a point in time and

18:44

never evolved beyond that point. So,

18:46

there was some significant psychiatric

18:48

or psychological pointers to

18:51

the sort of character we're dealing with

18:53

here.

18:55

The fact the accused addressed a 17th

18:57

birthday card to quote

19:00

the most beautiful girl in the world and

19:02

wrote a message that included quote

19:04

knowing we will share all the birthdays

19:07

to follow all my love forever

19:09

xxx which I find

19:11

to be powerful evidence revealing that

19:14

on or around the complainant's 17th

19:16

birthday the accused a

19:18

mature man as opposed to

19:21

an immature teenager

19:23

was confident in the existence of

19:26

a reciprocal and permanent relationship

19:29

and that was because the sexual relationship

19:31

had commenced between 1 July 1980 and 12 December 1980.

19:37

If you ever say

19:39

anything about don't tell anyone at all. I'm

19:43

sure it was understood that you didn't tell anyone but

19:46

again you know he I guess he said

19:48

you know it's fine you know there's

19:51

nothing wrong with this because I love you

19:53

and I'll take care of you and you know we're going to get

19:55

married and dated our and I

19:57

of course didn't speak to anyone about it.

19:59

I just trusted him. Did

20:02

you ever tell anyone at any stage later on what

20:04

might have happened or what was going on? Filfriends?

20:08

Boyfriends? No.

20:09

No,

20:12

not really. I'll get to do myself.

20:17

I was reflecting while we were listening to Judge

20:19

Sarah Huggett describe the evidence of

20:21

the witness we're calling C.D.

20:23

The other girl who was

20:25

spending time with Paul Dawson while

20:27

A.B. spent time with Chris Dawson that they would go

20:29

to Little Manly Beach or to D.Y. Beach

20:32

and they would sit around talking. These

20:33

guys were 32. What were

20:36

they talking to young teenage girls

20:38

about? If you're not a sexual predator,

20:40

the idea of spending that much time with a

20:42

teenage girl is so weird.

20:45

It's so unusual.

20:47

It's very difficult to get yourself into the mindset

20:50

of somebody who would think that would be

20:52

a good way to spend your time.

20:54

These exceptionally close twin

20:56

brothers were in cahoots

20:58

for at least some of the

21:01

sexual activities with underage

21:03

schoolgirls. They were

21:05

exchanging stories with each other

21:08

about what was going on, encouraging

21:10

each other and even where

21:13

they could sharing the

21:15

same schoolgirl

21:17

in a sexual encounter.

21:19

Here's what A.B. said about that in her 1998

21:21

police interview. When

21:26

you spoke with Paul, did you expect to talk about

21:29

the circumstances at the house? No. Was

21:33

he aware that you were having a relationship with Chris Dawson? Yes. Was

21:37

Paul's wife away? Yes. Did

21:41

Davis speak too bad?

21:42

Well, Paul did

21:44

because he was having

21:46

relationships with young girls all over the

21:48

place.

21:51

So, you know, he was... Wait, what did he

21:53

mean by that? Well, you

21:55

know, I wouldn't name names, but he

21:58

had relationships gone. What's going with

22:00

schoolgirls? How

22:03

did Paul meet the schoolgirls? Because

22:06

he was a school teacher. Where

22:10

was Paul working at? Forest High

22:12

School. Was Paul's wife

22:14

aware that Paul was having... I

22:18

don't think so. I don't know. I really

22:20

don't know. Because it was

22:22

certainly happening right under her nose. Whether

22:24

she just turned a blind eye to her. Did

22:26

you hear that at all? Did you witness

22:28

something or... I knew that he was having

22:31

affairs with her. You're so ignorant.

22:37

One of the less known but very disturbing features

22:40

of the allegations is

22:42

that the fantasy, the

22:45

ultimate fantasy of Chris and

22:47

Paul Dawson was to be

22:50

inside a schoolgirl together

22:54

at the same time. That's a really

22:57

horrifying idea that takes on new

22:59

significance in the light of this verdict. It's

23:01

intriguing too and this is something else about

23:04

pedophilia, isn't it? That

23:05

these were handsome rugby league

23:07

stars. Tremendous crime I think was

23:10

only sheer courage to put Chris Dawson

23:12

over the line. If they'd wanted

23:14

to just have extra marital affairs with

23:17

willing young women of the

23:20

age of consent, that wouldn't

23:22

have been a problem for them. There would have been plenty of

23:24

young women in Sydney who would have been

23:26

happy to have sex consensually

23:29

with

23:29

Chris and Paul Dawson. That's Chris Dawson,

23:31

the two Dawson boys are there. Here's Paul Dawson and

23:33

over the top he goes. So

23:36

it wasn't as though schoolgirls

23:38

were their only opportunity for sex. There

23:41

was something about the vulnerability of these children

23:43

that appealed to them and that's really

23:46

dark. The first time I interviewed

23:48

Bev McNally, who was the babysitter

23:51

before the woman who became Chris

23:54

Dawson's accuser, she

23:56

told me that Chris Dawson was

23:58

constantly talking about...

25:50

four

26:00

decades later. And

26:03

as Judge Huggett said, the

26:05

accuser in this case, she

26:08

got some things a little off. She

26:11

was wrong on some of the detail or

26:14

a bit confused about some of the timings.

26:17

But it wasn't from a place of making

26:20

stuff up. It wasn't from a deliberate

26:24

attempt to mislead or fabricate

26:26

evidence. It's because it was 40 years

26:29

ago. Many of us can't remember what

26:31

we did four weeks ago. Now,

26:33

going back 40 years, you remember

26:35

the big picture things. You remember

26:38

when you first had sex with

26:41

your teacher. And that's what

26:43

she was telling the absolute truth about.

26:45

And that's what I believe Paul

26:48

Dawson's accuser has also

26:50

been utterly truthful on.

26:53

And that's something that's been borne out via the

26:55

investigative process in the lead-up to

26:57

this trial. The detective Laura

26:59

Beecroft from Strike Force Southwood

27:02

has done an incredibly impressive job

27:04

in this case. And she's done it

27:07

without the full glare of publicity

27:10

that the murder case had.

27:12

She's just worked quietly in the background

27:15

trying to win the confidence of former

27:17

students of several Northern Beaches High schools.

27:20

And it started in July 2018

27:24

when the then Commissioner of Police Mick Fuller

27:26

announced, I think to our surprise,

27:29

Dave, the formation of a

27:31

Strike Force that he called Southwood, that

27:34

he said needed to investigate

27:36

allegations of what he called appalling

27:39

pedophile behaviour and alleged

27:41

sexual assaults by teachers upon

27:44

students of the Northern Beaches.

27:46

He set that up

27:47

in mid-July 2018.

27:49

Soon after,

27:51

you had been firing questions

27:54

at the police about what they were doing

27:56

in relation to the allegations being raised

27:59

in the Teal. Teachers Pet Podcast by former students,

28:02

and it came soon after Mick Fuller,

28:05

the 2GB broadcaster Ben Fordham,

28:08

myself and the police force

28:10

media adviser Grant Williams had

28:12

a lunch, a meeting at a restaurant

28:14

called Verde in Sydney where it seemed

28:17

for the first time we were able to

28:19

talk face to face with the police

28:22

about these parallel investigations

28:24

that were unfolding. Ours in

28:26

the Teachers Pet Podcast

28:28

and theirs in their strike

28:30

force that was attempting

28:33

to put before the DPP

28:35

a compelling brief of fresh evidence

28:38

that might lead to the DPP reversing

28:41

its previous refusals

28:44

to prosecute Chris Dawson.

28:46

The more that Mick Fuller and

28:48

his senior police heard

28:51

in the podcast from students

28:53

speaking out

28:54

about what was going on

28:56

on the Northern Beaches around the time

28:59

of this alleged murder,

29:00

they had a murder investigation, but who

29:03

was actually addressing these unresolved,

29:06

very serious allegations of abuse? And

29:08

it was also occurring at the same time

29:11

as the

29:12

Royal Commission, the National

29:14

Royal Commission into historic

29:17

child abuse in churches

29:20

and other organisations. But

29:22

regrettably, that commission didn't

29:24

deal with the state high schools, didn't

29:27

deal with the state run education

29:29

authorities.

29:31

Many people who suffered sexual abuse

29:34

as children in institutions will

29:36

be desperate to tell their stories to the Royal Commission,

29:38

the federal government announced last week. But

29:41

how many of those cases will be investigated?

29:59

all credit to them

30:02

for making sure that these things didn't

30:04

get swept under the carpet, for giving

30:07

comfort to a lot of students, many

30:09

of whom probably don't want to be

30:12

in the position that Chris

30:14

Dawson's second wife, his accuser,

30:17

had to put herself in to give evidence,

30:19

but who were grateful

30:22

to be heard, to have their

30:25

voice at least listened

30:27

to by the police, and then

30:29

they had the option, they had

30:32

the choice, did they want to go forward

30:34

with it? It was totally up to them as individuals,

30:37

and for many of them I've got no doubt they

30:39

decided that they didn't need to, and

30:41

that's why there aren't more teachers in

30:44

the dark now,

30:45

because it's an individual choice. People

30:48

handle these things differently, some victims

30:51

of sexual abuse, they would

30:53

never want now, 40 years

30:55

later, to be going through the

30:58

trauma

30:59

of revisiting this, of being

31:01

embarrassed, of having to explain

31:04

to nieces and nephews, grandchildren,

31:07

why they're upset, what's going on, what

31:09

they did when they were that age, because

31:12

there's always this sense of guilt. It's

31:14

not their fault, but there would be

31:16

an impossible layer of guilt that

31:19

they must have done something. That's how a

31:21

lot of victims of sexual abuse

31:23

initially rationalised this, that they did

31:26

something to attract the attention

31:29

of a predatory teacher. It was their

31:31

fault, it was never their fault,

31:33

and

31:34

we've seen in this trial

31:36

the strength of the

31:39

schoolgirl who would go on to marry Chris Dawson,

31:42

and she has been a beacon for so

31:44

many of those other students who don't

31:47

want to go down that path, but who are

31:49

today cheering

31:50

at what she's achieved.

32:00

was followed by AB coming forward

32:02

and making a complaint against Chris Dawson.

32:05

You have to wonder why this hadn't happened

32:08

many, many years earlier, because this

32:10

charge had always been there. That

32:13

had always been an offence.

32:14

And AB had given evidence and spoken

32:17

to police for decades about

32:19

what had happened and when it had happened.

32:21

This could have been done many years ago.

32:25

How old were you then when she went missing? 17.

32:31

Do you find it odd that as soon as his

32:33

wife went missing, he returned you into

32:35

the family home?

32:36

He wanted that all along. And,

32:40

you know, I mean, I

32:42

tried to leave on a number of occasions

32:44

because I didn't want to

32:46

be in that situation with him.

32:48

What situation? Well, I

32:50

didn't want to be in a relationship with him. I wanted to

32:52

get away because I was just a kid. How

32:54

old was Christopher when you were 17? 32, 33 or

32:58

something. And

33:01

so, you know, when I tried to get away,

33:03

it was, you know, he

33:06

kept counting me. And

33:08

then he asked me to marry him and when I was 16

33:10

or something, he kept hassling me.

33:13

It was very odd. Anyway,

33:16

yeah, so

33:19

I was just installed as

33:22

the person to take care of

33:24

his kids and... Can

33:25

you tell me what his personality was like?

33:28

Narcissistic. Have

33:32

you shown signs of any, any signs

33:35

to you at some stage that

33:41

he wanted his wife to disappear or that

33:43

he wanted her just to lay her house and continue relationship

33:45

with you? Well, the fact

33:48

that he asked me to marry him, to

33:50

me, is an indication that that's what he

33:52

wanted. What did

33:54

you say?

33:55

Well, I was 16 or 17. In

33:59

the end, And I just said yes, just to shut

34:02

him up, you know, because he just kept,

34:05

he was very persuasive

34:07

and very, you know, because of the situation

34:09

we were in, he was

34:12

in that position of trust. And so I trusted

34:14

him because, you know, I'll take care

34:16

of these things and I'll look after you this sort of...

34:22

I think that goes to the heart of something I find

34:24

incredibly perplexing about this case

34:26

and I still haven't resolved it. It's

34:29

Chris Dawson's willful decision

34:31

to ignore the rule of law, especially

34:33

at the time. Surely he wasn't

34:36

so bereft emotionally and intellectually

34:38

that he didn't understand that

34:40

a 32-year-old having sex

34:42

with a child

34:44

is a criminal offence. Did he actually

34:47

think he was beyond the law? How

34:50

could that element not feature

34:52

in his decisions in that period?

34:55

I am thinking there, Matt, of Phil Webster

34:57

saying that one teacher had told him, mate,

35:00

it's all right, they're 16, it's legal.

35:03

And you wonder if they thought that they had found

35:05

the loophole that let them do these things. But

35:07

then some of the things that we have seen

35:10

throughout this process involve girls

35:12

who were even younger. So

35:14

there's a lot going on there that we don't

35:16

really understand, I think, Matt.

35:18

Chris Dawson's second wife,

35:20

his accuser in this trial has shown

35:22

that it can be done. And let's

35:25

hope that she sets a really

35:27

positive example for those

35:29

students who have been wavering

35:31

about whether they want to have their

35:34

cases put before a judge

35:37

for deliberation. Those who

35:39

have been hanging back, who have been sitting on

35:41

the fence worrying about whether it's

35:44

even possible, they now know it is

35:46

possible. They can get justice

35:49

and they do not run the

35:51

risk of even being identified.

35:54

So if they have been waiting to

35:57

see what happens in this case, now

35:59

they know. know they can do this and

36:02

that they have the strength and support

36:04

of police and they will

36:07

get a fair hearing before a judge,

36:10

even with a case four decades

36:12

old.

36:12

Headley, you spoke with someone

36:14

who knew AB around the time she was

36:17

being abused by Chris Dawson. Her

36:19

name is Michelle Walsh and she

36:21

reconnected with AB after AB

36:23

left her marriage to Dawson.

36:25

Michelle Walsh was there

36:27

in 1990 on the Northern Beaches at a friend's

36:30

house when AB came back

36:33

from Queensland. It was the earlier

36:35

part of that year. She had newly

36:38

separated from Chris

36:39

and she was very

36:42

confident that Chris had murdered

36:45

Lynn.

36:45

Michelle was stunned by what she was

36:48

hearing, even though the rumours of

36:50

what had happened to Lynn had been rife

36:52

at the school since 1982.

36:55

But here was a girl

36:57

she knew from Chroma High. Eight

37:00

years later, she's back

37:02

and she's determined to try to get justice.

37:05

This is what Michelle remembered of

37:07

that occasion. Her

37:10

mission that night was that she was going

37:13

to get Chris straight in jail. She

37:15

came back and she hated him and

37:18

she told us how, you know, he basically

37:20

started dating girls up there from school.

37:23

She would come home. She became Lynn. She

37:25

was being pushed around by him. He had

37:27

all these high school girls in the pool

37:30

and she was basically getting out before

37:33

he killed her. She just

37:35

hated him and she wanted

37:37

him to go to jail. And

37:39

I'll never forget it. She was just on

37:42

this mission, which is why I didn't really... I

37:44

didn't even

37:46

feel the need to go to the police. She was really

37:48

pursuing it. I didn't think anything I had to say

37:50

was going to make any... Well, it didn't

37:52

compare to what she was talking

37:54

about. Like, it was serious, you know, that... You

37:57

know, her stuff being there. Chris saying that she was

37:59

never coming back. coming back, you know, just the moving

38:02

on. It was like, Lynn

38:04

was just gone and that was it. There was never

38:06

another thought of her. She

38:08

may have wanted Chris to know

38:11

that she was going to the police, putting all this on notice

38:14

on the record so that if anything happened

38:16

to her, he was gone. Well, she said that's

38:18

what she was doing. She actually said she was

38:20

doing that so that he couldn't touch her.

38:23

She was going to report this and she was

38:25

going to make it so vocal so that nothing

38:28

would happen to her. She said

38:30

that that was part of the motive. I asked

38:32

her, I remember wondering, well, aren't you scared?

38:35

And she, because she was definitely accusing

38:37

him of murdering me. She wasn't saying, I

38:39

think he did. She was saying he did. And

38:42

I said, well, aren't you scared? And she

38:44

was like, well, this is why I'm doing this. He won't be able to

38:46

come near me. Like I'm going

38:48

to pursue this and I'm protected by doing

38:51

this.

38:51

Why does Chris have so much power?

38:54

What is going on with this guy that

38:56

he has that much power?

38:58

It seems to be everywhere.

39:01

It seems to be with the system,

39:03

with the police, with the

39:06

girls, everyone in his life

39:08

seems to

39:09

be protecting him.

39:11

And what

39:12

is it with him that

39:14

he is able to do that?

39:17

Michelle, like many of the students, could

39:20

not believe that there was not more

39:22

interest from authorities into

39:24

everything that was unfolding at

39:27

that time.

39:28

This whole thing opening up this

39:30

time has

39:31

just brought up. There's so many different

39:34

angles and injustices that have gone on. The

39:38

Department of Education, why

39:40

are they not being taken to task? Over

39:43

this, the police, why are

39:45

they not being taken to task? There's

39:47

so many angles. We'll

39:55

be back in just a moment.

40:06

Welcome back to Episode 5 of The

40:08

Teacher's Accuser.

40:10

A feature of judge alone trials like this

40:12

one is that the judge has to provide detailed

40:15

reasons about how and why

40:17

certain evidence factors into the ultimate

40:19

finding. That doesn't happen in

40:21

jury trials. Judge Sarah Huggett

40:24

read her reasons over the course of almost

40:26

three hours in courtroom 3.2 at

40:29

Sydney's Downing Centre, canvassing

40:31

not only A.B.'s evidence but also

40:33

that of a number of other witnesses.

40:36

Dave, tell us about that. Judge

40:38

Huggett said that A.B.'s evidence did not stand

40:40

alone, that it was powerfully corroborated

40:43

by the evidence of other witnesses.

40:45

These are people who went to school with A.B.

40:48

and Judge Huggett essentially found that

40:50

their evidence was credible.

40:52

The judge said she accepted another

40:55

former schoolgirl's evidence that she saw

40:57

Dawson standing between A.B.'s

40:59

legs as she sat on a brick fence in the

41:01

school playground. Public defender Claire

41:03

Worsley had sought to say that this

41:06

witness was unreliable because

41:08

she only came forward to police after

41:10

the Teacher's Pet podcast was released.

41:13

Of course, this formed part of Claire Worsley's

41:16

bigger point that the Teacher's Pet had

41:18

the potential to contaminate the evidence

41:20

of witnesses who had heard the podcast.

41:23

The judge really rejected that. She

41:25

said that the witness had been consistent over

41:27

the years

41:28

in what she said that she'd seen, and

41:30

she really didn't have any time for the argument

41:32

that the podcast had potentially influenced her.

41:37

That A.B. had

41:38

listened to the podcast before making her statement

41:41

does not cause me to doubt the evidence she

41:43

gave regarding what she saw before

41:45

she left Chroma High in 1980. What

41:49

she saw was significantly different to

41:51

what the evidence reveals formed part

41:53

of the podcast, and on the evidence

41:55

before me, could not have come from the

41:58

podcast.

42:00

The judge also accepted the evidence of

42:02

the trolley boy who was confronted by

42:05

Chris Dawson as he was pushing some trolleys

42:07

at Coles one day and told to

42:09

stay away from her.

42:11

Yeah, Judge Huggett said she didn't believe

42:13

Chris Dawson's claim that he was protecting

42:15

AB from a teenage suitor.

42:18

She said he was asserting his authority

42:20

because he saw the trolley boy as a rival

42:23

for AB's affections.

42:25

The judge also took some time to

42:27

go through the statements made by

42:30

AB about what she had

42:32

written and what Chris Dawson had written

42:34

at the end of 1980, that she in her

42:36

sports coaching

42:39

exam at the end of year 11 had written

42:41

what she described as something exotic on her

42:43

exam paper.

42:44

The judge said that her evidence about

42:46

that had changed slightly over

42:49

the years but she had never wavered

42:51

from the fundamental point that in

42:53

her answer on this exam she was a alluding

42:56

to there being a sexual relationship. She

42:59

said that her friend thought it would be funny to

43:01

write something exotic

43:03

and because she the complainant knew

43:05

they were having sex, the account

43:07

the complainant provided in her statement of 2019

43:10

has a ring of truth, particularly

43:12

given the unchallenged evidence that the accused

43:15

referred to himself on occasion as

43:17

God. The

43:19

judge was, it would seem, wholly convinced

43:22

by AB's claim that

43:24

the phrase a pleasure to teach which Chris

43:26

Dawson wrote on her 1980

43:28

end of year school report was an

43:31

allusion to sex.

43:32

Claire Worsley had made much of the fact that that

43:35

only came out at the trial that the complainant

43:37

had not mentioned before that there was some sort

43:39

of sexual innuendo beneath

43:41

that comment and the judge rejected

43:43

that. She said she believed that a pleasure

43:46

to teach was a sexual reference.

43:49

The prosecutor Emma Blizzard had said

43:51

that this was the kind of thing

43:53

that someone who would call themselves God

43:55

and use a secret code would write

43:58

in a school report card and

43:59

that they could get away with. And that's

44:02

essentially what the judge found too.

44:04

There were a couple of phrases that Judge

44:06

Hugget repeated near the end

44:09

of the verdict. One of those was,

44:11

she said, my common sense and

44:14

life experience informs me

44:16

thus. And the other, which

44:18

she mentioned half a dozen times, that

44:21

this situation, this evidence, this witness, what

44:23

they told the court, has a ring

44:25

of truth,

44:27

the ring of truth which sounded

44:29

throughout that last half an hour of the verdict.

44:35

The evidence has a ring of truth and accords

44:37

with the impression created by the exhibit

44:40

one. My common sense and life experience

44:42

informs me that unlike I find

44:45

that this evidence has a ring of truth. As

44:48

I have observed, the accused does not

44:50

challenge the truth. My common sense

44:53

and life accused did

44:55

that, had a ring of truth to it. And

44:57

whilst a hand on a knee, my

45:00

common sense and life experience

45:03

informs me.

45:08

The evidence that the judge really didn't seem

45:11

to accept as fully was about the fitness

45:13

classes at Linfield High School. Both

45:16

AB and the witness CD

45:18

had described going to those fitness classes

45:20

with Chris and Paul Dawson that the

45:22

men would have one girl behind the

45:24

scenes while the other was teaching a song

45:27

in the fitness class. And they both spoke

45:29

about spending time in the pool with the brothers after

45:32

those classes. The judge made

45:34

it clear that because CD had been

45:36

really unsure about when all of these

45:39

things happened, that she really couldn't

45:41

be sure that it had happened in 1980

45:43

as AB said. It was possible

45:46

that the pool interactions that they remembered

45:48

had happened in 1981.

45:50

And so really the judge put that evidence

45:52

to one side.

45:55

It is clear that CD did not have

45:57

a good recollection regarding dates. However,

46:00

she maintained that her memory as to what

46:02

occurred was good. While

46:05

there is no evidence that any

46:07

aspect of fitness classes formed

46:09

part of the Comcast, and while

46:12

much of C.D.'s evidence is not challenged,

46:15

given her lack of certainty regarding

46:17

the timing of events, I have

46:19

put those aspects of her evidence aside

46:22

that relate to the timing of certain events

46:25

when determining whether the prosecution

46:27

has proved the offence charged.

46:29

Funnily enough, the most

46:31

vociferous reaction from Chris Dawson

46:33

came when there was the discussion about the frolicking

46:36

in the pool, and

46:37

he was especially negatively

46:40

adamant whenever his twin brother Paul

46:42

was raised in Judge Huggett's

46:45

verdict,

46:46

there was a visible reaction. Judge

46:48

Huggett formed the view of C.D.,

46:51

who was a schoolgirl at Forest

46:53

High and was groomed

46:56

by Paul Dawson, we heard, that

46:58

she really didn't want to be there,

47:01

wanted to put these things behind her and move

47:03

on with her life, but notwithstanding that

47:05

was giving evidence

47:07

for someone whom she knew when they

47:10

were young teenagers. I

47:12

think that's a fair analysis of

47:15

C.D. It struck me

47:17

in 2018 that she was trying to

47:21

help but really not

47:23

wanting to get too deeply involved.

47:25

She would be in the category of schoolgirls

47:28

who want to see justice, who want

47:30

to see the perpetrators punished,

47:34

but would prefer to not have to

47:36

do the heavy lifting of being

47:38

the complainant themselves.

47:40

There was one mix-up there, Headley,

47:43

where the judge said that C.D. said she'd been

47:45

manipulated by you, and I

47:47

think all of us thought, well, that actually

47:49

wasn't the evidence that she gave, and

47:52

the judge had moved on. Fortunately,

47:54

at the end of the verdict, prosecutor

47:56

Emma Blizzard stood up and just made

47:58

the point that the evidence actually was that C.D.

48:01

said she and A.B. had been manipulated

48:03

by Paul and Chris Dawson.

48:05

And the judge accepted that was a mistake.

48:07

Phew. We're

48:11

all asked questions by our

48:13

friends, family, listeners who write

48:15

to us, why is Chris Dawson

48:17

bothering defending this case?

48:20

He's already been convicted of murder. Why

48:23

wouldn't he just own up and

48:25

move on and avoid all of

48:27

this distress and hassle

48:30

and stress? And

48:33

the answer, I believe, is

48:35

that Chris Dawson was

48:38

hoping that if he beat

48:40

this charge of carnal knowledge and

48:43

then at some point over the next several

48:45

months gets up in

48:47

relation to his appeal of

48:50

the murder conviction, he could be

48:52

back in his home

48:54

near the beach in Queensland in

48:57

a matter of weeks or months. So he

48:59

had to try

48:59

to beat this charge of carnal knowledge.

49:02

And now, having gone down here,

49:05

he's really facing an uphill battle

49:07

to get out of prison. He

49:10

is likely to die in jail for sure,

49:12

even if he does succeed on

49:15

his appeal for the murder conviction, which

49:18

we believe is unlikely, but you

49:20

can never rule something out. Tactically,

49:23

with one eye on the possibility,

49:25

slim as it is, of freedom, he

49:27

had to plead not guilty in

49:30

this carnal knowledge matter because

49:33

in his mind, he sees

49:36

a glimmer of hope that

49:38

he will get off on

49:40

the murder conviction, that he will be

49:42

set free on that. And if he could

49:45

beat the carnal knowledge charge, having

49:47

pleaded not guilty, then

49:49

he's home free. He's back in Queensland.

49:52

He's putting all of this behind him. Perhaps

49:54

he's even negotiating to try and write

49:56

his story and recoup some of

49:59

the many hundreds of...

49:59

thousands of dollars in legal expenses

50:02

which we believe has come close to bankrupting

50:05

him.

50:06

That's no doubt why we saw such a

50:08

strong reaction from him after the verdict

50:10

when the judge had left the court. Well it does

50:12

suggest that all hope now is

50:15

dashed. He's got to be successful in

50:18

two appeals and we don't know whether he

50:21

even intends to appeal this carnal knowledge

50:23

conviction but he has to

50:25

now pray that he can get up on

50:28

both matters, the murder and the carnal

50:30

knowledge.

50:31

We've noted before how fast the wheels

50:33

of justice seem to turn in the New South Wales

50:35

District Court. Judge Huggett brought this verdict

50:37

back very quickly but she's going to take her

50:40

time before she asks lawyers back

50:42

to

50:42

court to make sentencing submissions.

50:45

The

50:45

judge has set down September 15 as that

50:48

hearing date and that gives Clare

50:50

Worsley time to speak to Dawson

50:52

about what he says are the mitigating factors.

50:55

At his murder trial it was that he was suffering

50:58

what his then lawyer Greg Walsh said were

51:00

the symptoms of developing chronic

51:02

traumatic encephalopathy.

51:03

That's a head impact

51:05

related degenerative brain condition.

51:08

Defence

51:09

lawyers usually like to have something to

51:11

offer the judge as a mitigating factor. In

51:13

this case because Dawson has never pleaded

51:15

guilty, has never admitted any

51:17

fault and has not cooperated with

51:19

investigators at any stage, it's

51:21

going to be difficult for Clare Worsley to suggest

51:23

that Dawson deserves anything less than

51:26

the maximum penalty. However

51:28

the law says that Dawson should be sentenced

51:30

in line with the sentencing practices of today,

51:32

not of 1980. So

51:35

we'll have to wait until then.

51:37

We'll

51:40

be back in just a moment.

51:50

Headlee

51:53

on Wednesday

51:59

at 12.40pm when Judge Sarah

52:02

Huggett convicted Dawson. It was 4.40am

52:05

in Rome where you are. I'm hoping

52:08

you were asleep

52:08

at that time. I

52:10

had woken up just about 10

52:13

minutes before then, Claire, and I was reading

52:15

the incredible blogging that you and

52:17

Dave were doing on the Australian's

52:19

website. And five minutes after

52:22

the verdict came down,

52:25

I got a message from Marilyn

52:28

Sims, the wife of

52:31

Lynn's brother, Greg. Marilyn

52:33

and Greg have been such fantastic supporters of us,

52:35

of the podcast. Ever since

52:38

I first met them in late 2017,

52:40

they've been incredibly

52:42

loyal and committed. And

52:45

Marilyn sent a message just saying, woohoo,

52:48

how to get the others. Their

52:50

daughter Renee followed up with

52:54

a message that said simply,

52:56

got him again. And

52:58

then I spoke to Greg and Marilyn for

53:00

about 20 minutes. And we just

53:02

talked about how far things have come

53:05

from a murder

53:07

through the investigations into

53:10

the sexual abuse, which I know

53:12

during the podcast,

53:14

Marilyn was very concerned about

53:16

and wanted to see Chris

53:18

Dawson's accuser, his second wife,

53:21

properly vindicated for what she

53:23

went through there. She was very happy

53:26

about this verdict. They have very

53:28

deliberately kept a lower profile in

53:30

this trial. This isn't their matter.

53:34

It's something that bears upon what

53:36

happened to Lynn, but it's not their

53:39

trial. It's not one that they

53:42

are the complainants or major

53:44

agitators of. They were just very quietly

53:46

supportive of the students who

53:49

were giving evidence, and particularly of

53:52

the woman who replaced Lynn

53:54

in that house. And I think

53:57

that's a measure of the

53:59

decency.

54:00

and the charity of this

54:03

couple, Lynn's brother and his

54:06

wife, and of course Pat Jenkins,

54:08

who has been such an amazing

54:11

force in trying to get justice for

54:13

so long, that they

54:15

have moved past the hurts that

54:18

they felt

54:19

as a result of

54:20

a schoolgirl, a young woman

54:23

replacing their sister

54:25

taking over her assets, parenting

54:28

her children,

54:29

and now they're in a place where they

54:31

wanted her to get this justice, they were

54:33

right behind her, and the

54:36

only unresolved points of course

54:38

are the teachers who

54:41

thus far have not been charged,

54:43

let's hope that they are, and

54:45

the question over where Lynn's body is.

54:48

Marilyn and Greg are realists

54:51

and I don't think they hold

54:53

out a great deal of hope

54:55

forever knowing

54:57

where Lynn is,

54:58

but they've achieved so much

55:01

over the last five years and they

55:03

were ready to open champagne today.

55:06

The whole family seems extraordinarily

55:08

gracious. Outside court I had a quick

55:10

chat to David Jenkins who's the son

55:13

of Pat, he's what he had to say.

55:15

I think it was

55:17

the right outcome, I'm glad

55:20

that the judge found the evidence

55:22

was strong enough, I'm glad that

55:24

they be and various other students at the

55:26

time but to tell their truth and

55:29

would largely believe so I think it's a good outcome.

55:32

I was hoping when he was on mic there and he might he

55:34

might give something else away but I imagine

55:37

it's a shock for him and well he's got plenty of

55:39

time to process it doesn't he?

55:41

He's never admitted anything, what do

55:44

you think he'll have to reflect on over

55:46

the next 24 years at least while he's in prison

55:48

and now probably more time? I

55:49

hope he reflects

55:51

the choices he made in those

55:53

younger days and this is the

55:56

right outcome for his choices. He

55:58

made certain decisions and This is the result

56:00

of them.

56:01

This wasn't strictly about Lyn. This wasn't

56:03

about Lyn at all, really. It was happening

56:05

sort of side by side with what was

56:07

happening to Lyn. Why does it matter for Lyn's

56:10

family?

56:11

I mean, it's all part of the same larger story. And

56:14

I think it's important that everyone's truth from

56:16

that period gets heard. And therefore, it's

56:19

important that we support those people who

56:21

have come forward. A.B. was

56:23

supporting Lyn and Fort, telling her her story

56:26

then, and again, back in the Supreme Court, and

56:28

again now, so it's important to acknowledge

56:30

that.

56:30

He's now a convicted child sex offender as

56:32

well as a convicted murderer. Is

56:35

that making a difference to you? It's

56:37

good to have the recognition, I suppose, a formal

56:39

recognition. It doesn't change the way police

56:42

believe for a long time, though. This is just, I

56:44

guess, the formal process catching

56:46

up.

56:47

When you moved

56:49

in, how did

56:52

Christopher's demeanor change anything? And

56:56

when I say that, was he happier? Was he a happier person?

56:58

Or was he a distressed person?

57:00

No, I don't think

57:01

he was distressed. I think he was,

57:03

you know, he had what he wanted.

57:07

That was

57:08

what he wanted. That was his... His

57:11

goal was to have me and

57:13

have the children and have the

57:15

house and have no Lyn. You know, I...

57:19

He was ecstatic, as far as I can say.

57:24

MUSIC

57:28

Greg and Marilyn also told me that they've

57:31

been listening to every episode of this

57:33

series, The Teacher's Accuser, as

57:36

they did during the murder trial, which they sat

57:38

through, because they hear analysis

57:41

and details that they would not get anywhere

57:43

else. And Matt, I have to tell you that

57:46

Greg and Marilyn love listening

57:48

to your word of the week. I

57:51

told Greg and Marilyn that we call

57:53

your amazing vocabulary

57:56

your incredible ability

57:58

to pluck

57:58

a word out of the book. of apparently thin

58:01

air, a word we've never heard of. We

58:03

call those match-ictives. Well

58:05

that's wonderful to hear but I have been accused,

58:07

may I say, by a close colleague, I won't reveal

58:10

the name, that in fact my vocabulary

58:12

comes from some form of chat box or website.

58:14

It's deeply offensive. I'm

58:17

gonna move forward from this, I'm not going to be offended,

58:19

but I'm thrilled that I throw

58:22

a few ticklers and curly ones to

58:24

Greg and Marilyn. Matt,

58:25

we're looking for the perfect word that means someone

58:28

like you, having a ready insight into

58:30

and understanding of things. Is

58:32

it articulate? Claire, it's perspicaciousness

58:36

with a lowercase

58:38

p. Thanks

58:45

for joining us on this episode of The Teacher's

58:47

Accuser. It will be our last until Crown

58:49

Prosecutor Emma Blizzard and Public

58:51

Defender Claire Worsley return to the Downing Centre

58:53

in September for sentencing submissions.

58:57

This episode was written in part and

58:59

narrated by National Chief Correspondent Hedley

59:01

Thomas, with assistance and contributions

59:04

from National Crime Correspondent David Murray,

59:07

Senior Writer Matthew Condon and me, Editorial

59:09

Director Claire Harvey. Our producer

59:12

is Kristen Amiet. Audio production

59:14

is by Jasper Leake with assistance

59:16

from Josh Burton and our theme music

59:19

is by Wasabi Audio. For

59:21

all our reporting and analysis, go to

59:23

theteachersaccuser.com.au. That's

59:27

theteachersaccuser.com.au.

59:31

We'll also bring you live updates and

59:33

analysis in our daily news podcast,

59:36

The Front. Just search for The Front

59:39

wherever you get your podcasts.