0:00

I'm Katie Page, CEO of Harvey Norman,

0:02

and we're proud to support the teacher's

0:04

trial podcast. For over five

0:06

years, Harvey Norman has been a principal sponsor

0:09

of the Australians podcasts such

0:11

as the night driver, Shandy Story,

0:13

and the teacher's pet. Harvey Norman

0:15

remained proud sponsors of the Australians

0:18

podcast investigations. And

0:20

this episode of the Teacher's trial

0:22

is made in collaboration with their award

0:24

winning journalists. Before we start,

0:26

a quick warning This podcast is

0:29

obviously about a convicted murderer,

0:31

and we've been discussing some distressing

0:33

content. There's also some adult

0:36

language in this episode.

0:42

One of the country's most high profile trials

0:44

is underway more than forty years

0:47

after Chris Dawson is accused of murdering

0:49

his wife, Lynette, then disposing of

0:51

her body.

0:52

She vanished from their Bayview home in

0:54

nineteen eighty two. For thirty six

0:56

years, there was little progress until

0:58

police sensationally extradited Dawson

1:01

from Queensland in twenty eighteen.

1:03

He has always professed his innocence.

1:04

Christopher Michael Dawson

1:07

says he's been waiting for this day.

1:09

happy that finally, it's underway now.

1:11

Yes. Very happy. My

1:14

name is Hadley Thomas, and I'm a journalist with

1:16

a particular interest in podcast investigations

1:19

into the alleged murders of women in

1:21

Australia. This is our

1:23

new podcast series, The Teacher's Trial.

1:26

It's brought to you by the Australian. The

1:29

trial of Christopher Michael Dawson

1:32

a former high school physical education

1:34

teacher for the murder of his wife

1:36

Lynn, a doting mother of two

1:38

little girls in Sydney four decades

1:40

ago. You can follow the

1:43

case at the newspaper's digital site

1:45

and at the teachers trial dot

1:47

com dot au.

1:50

I'm Claire Harvey, host of the

1:52

Australian's Daily News podcast, the

1:54

front. It's all over.

1:57

Christopher Morrison will

1:59

likely

1:59

die in prison. That

2:02

was the stark declaration of justice,

2:04

Ian Harrison, s see in the New

2:06

South Wales Supreme Court where

2:09

he sentenced Dawson to twenty four

2:11

years imprisonment with no chance of

2:13

parole until twenty forty.

2:14

We saw Dawson for what

2:17

might be the last time for

2:19

now anyway in his prison

2:21

grounds entering the dock of court

2:23

thirteen a on Friday morning to

2:25

hear his sentence. This

2:28

is episode twenty two of the

2:30

Teacher's trial. and we're going to bring

2:32

you every word of Ian Harrison's

2:35

sentencing remarks. We'll

2:37

hear reactions from Lynn and Chris' family

2:40

and from the police and Teacher's. And

2:42

we're going to revisit some of the voices

2:45

you heard right at the beginning of this podcast

2:47

investigation. the

2:48

women who believed

2:50

Lin had been murdered and

2:52

who refused to be silent.

2:54

As always, I'll be joined by

2:57

chief correspondent, Hadley Thomas,

2:59

national crime correspondent, David

3:01

Murray and senior writer, Matthew

3:03

Condon. First,

3:05

let's go to the New South Wales Supreme

3:07

Court as justice Ian Harrison

3:10

makes his entrance.

3:12

author

3:18

Christopher

3:19

Michael Dawson was convicted on thirty

3:21

August twenty two

3:23

following a trial before me sitting without a

3:25

jury of the murder of

3:27

his wife, Lannett Dawson, honor about

3:29

eight January nineteen eighty two.

3:32

He now stands to be sentenced for that crime.

3:35

The facts found by me and my

3:37

verdict judgment are relevant to the

3:39

termination of the sentence I'm required to

3:41

impose. Having

3:43

found those facts, it is unnecessary to

3:46

repeat all of them now. However, a summary

3:48

of those facts for present purposes includes

3:51

the following matters.

3:53

Mister Lawson and Lannett, Joy

3:55

Sims, married on the twenty sixth of March.

3:58

nineteen seventy.

3:59

They were then twenty one years old.

4:02

As of late January nineteen eighty two,

4:04

they were living at two Gilwringer Drive Bayview

4:07

with their two daughters. Annette

4:09

Dawson was a trained nurse working at the Warwick

4:11

Healthcare Center. Mister

4:13

Dawson was a teacher at Craymer High School.

4:16

JC was a student

4:19

at Crama High School from nineteen seventy

4:21

six until she completed her highest

4:23

school certificate in nineteen eighty one at the age

4:25

of seventeen years. From

4:27

time to time during nineteen eighty

4:29

and nineteen eighty one, JC

4:31

worked as a babysitter for the Dawson's

4:33

daughters. At some

4:36

point during that time, mister Dawson and

4:38

JC commenced a sexual relationship

4:41

due to difficulties in her own home

4:43

JC moved into the Dawson's house for

4:45

a period, a brief period late

4:47

in nineteen eighty one. In

4:50

nineteen eighty and nineteen eighty one,

4:52

JC was subject to mister Dawson's

4:54

significant influence. However, that dramatically

4:57

changed after Bob same day in nineteen

4:59

eighty one. JC

5:01

began living with her sister at Neutral

5:03

Bay on twenty seven December nineteen

5:05

eighty one. although mister

5:07

Dawson spent New Year's Eve alone

5:09

with her. In nineteen eighty

5:11

one, JC traveled to Southwest rocks a

5:13

day or so later. Consequently,

5:16

and for the first time since their relationship

5:18

started, JC was not only beyond mister Dawson's

5:20

physical reach, and control, but also

5:22

beyond his emotional sway. She

5:25

was instead in the company of other young

5:27

women and significant the

5:29

young man of her age, including those who

5:31

had so plainly, and then recently

5:33

concerned mister Dawson. Mister

5:36

Dawson, was hundreds of kilometers

5:38

away from her with no knowledge of what she was

5:40

doing or with whom while he remained in

5:42

Sydney with his wife. who he

5:44

had only days before showing himself to be

5:46

more than enthusiastic to leave.

5:49

Mister Dawson had a possessive infatuation

5:52

with JC was at that affected him very

5:54

significantly in the period commencing

5:56

with JC's departure for Southwest

5:58

drugs. JZ had

6:00

communicated her desire to end their relationship

6:03

at around this time, and mister Dawson did

6:05

not want that to occur. Mister

6:08

Lawson's motive to Kelly's wife evolved

6:10

and developed in response to his

6:12

desire to be exclusively with

6:14

JC. prospect

6:16

of losing her distressed, frustrated,

6:19

and ultimately overwhelmed mister

6:21

Dawson to the point that he resolved to kill his

6:23

wife. The

6:25

evidence does not reveal how mister Dawson

6:27

killed Leonard Dawson. It

6:29

does not reveal

6:29

whether he did so with the assistance

6:31

of anyone else or by himself. It

6:34

does not reveal precisely when he did

6:36

so. The evidence does not

6:38

reveal wheel limit Dawson's body

6:40

is now. Mister

6:43

Dawson's state of mind at the time he killed Ahmed

6:45

Dawson is relevant to the assessment of the

6:47

objective, seriousness of the offense.

6:49

I have found that mister Dawson

6:51

killed her by a voluntary act performed

6:53

by him with the intention of causing

6:55

her death. An intention

6:58

to kill us a matter that tends generally

7:00

to increase the objective seriousness of

7:02

the offensive murder. in

7:04

contrast to a death caused by an act

7:06

committed with an intention merely to inflict

7:08

grievous bodily harm. Lannett

7:10

Dawson's body has never been found so the

7:12

precise way in which she died is not

7:14

and cannot be known. Accordingly,

7:17

no valid conclusions can be reached

7:19

about the nature of the act that caused her

7:21

death. Although

7:23

the precise details of the nature and extent

7:25

of mister Dawson's preparations to murder

7:28

his wife also cannot be known, I

7:30

have previously found that mister Dawson

7:32

planned to kill the net Dawson having resolved

7:34

to do so. On or soon after

7:36

two January nineteen eighty two, following

7:39

the departure of JC from Sydney

7:41

to spend time with her friends at Southwest

7:43

Brooks. Those plans included

7:46

contriving to have Philip Day attend the

7:48

Northbridge balance on nine January nineteen

7:50

eighty two, so as to facilitate

7:53

the care of his daughters by others that

7:55

evening in order that he might dispose

7:57

of his wife's body without interruption.

8:00

That plan was conceived at or about

8:02

the time of JC's departure for Southwest

8:04

Rox, and so was not a plan

8:06

that I can be satisfied beyond reasonable

8:08

doubt was one of long standing. The

8:11

fact that Lannett Dawson's body has never been

8:13

located or recovered is an aggravating

8:16

circumstance of the murder. consilment

8:18

of the body is not limited in its

8:20

significance to the absence

8:22

of remorse, assessing

8:25

the objective series of a

8:28

a seriousness of a crime is a synthesis

8:31

or amalgamation of relevant

8:33

factors touching and concerning the circumstances

8:35

of its commission undertaken

8:38

with the benefit of a judicial experience.reasonable

8:41

minds may differ as to the

8:43

conclusion.

8:44

murder

8:45

is uncontraversally a serious

8:47

crime. In my opinion,

8:49

the murder of Lannett Dawson is an

8:51

objectively very serious crime.

8:54

Despite some evident misunderstanding, it

8:56

is not necessary in dealing with this issue

8:58

to state or to describe

9:00

where on some hypothetical scale

9:03

of seriousness A particular event

9:05

falls. Indeed, references

9:07

to where when compared to the off-site

9:09

at middle of the range of objective

9:11

seriousness, a particular

9:13

offense falls, are ironically

9:16

so replaced with potentially subjective

9:18

judicial idiosyncrasies that

9:20

verbalizing the conclusion is usually

9:22

less help fall than might be hoped.

9:25

It is the responsibility of a judge

9:27

passing sentence to indicate clearly

9:29

his or her view of the objective

9:31

seriousness of the offense being considered. It

9:33

is in my view

9:35

preferable when doing so

9:37

and sufficient for me in this

9:39

case to say what factors support

9:41

my conclusion that the murder of Lannett

9:43

Dawson is an objectively very

9:45

serious offense. Mister

9:49

Dawson planned to kill his wife.

9:51

Whatever means mister Dawson employed to kill

9:53

her, he intended that result.

9:55

He did so in a domestic context

9:58

and in her own home.

9:59

In that last respect,

10:02

and bearing in mind that I have to be satisfied

10:04

of factors adverse to mister Dawson to

10:06

the criminal standard. And in

10:09

the absence of direct evidence, I

10:11

nevertheless find that net Dawson was

10:13

killed at two Gilwingham Drive

10:15

Bayview. I'm

10:17

satisfied to that standard because I consider my

10:19

conclusion to be the only rational inference

10:21

that the facts commit me to

10:23

draw. Lannett

10:25

Dawson's murder was also committed for the

10:27

selfish and cynical purpose of eliminating

10:29

the inconvenient of structure, she

10:31

presented the creation of the new life with

10:33

JC that mister Dawson was

10:35

unable to resist. Benead

10:38

Dawson was faultless and underserving

10:40

of her fate. Despite

10:42

the deteriorating state of her marriage

10:44

to mister Dawson, she was undoubtedly all

10:47

completely unsuspecting. Tradically,

10:50

her death deprived her young daughters of their

10:52

mother so that a significant part of

10:54

the harm caused to others and

10:56

by inference to the community as a

10:59

consequence of her death is

11:01

the sad fact that Lynette Dawson

11:03

was treated by her husband the

11:06

father of the very same girls as

11:08

completely dispensable. The

11:10

section

11:13

twenty eight of the crime sentencing procedure

11:15

act as at the date of

11:17

mister Dawson's arrest on the sixth of

11:19

December two thousand and

11:21

eighteen provided for

11:23

the giving our

11:25

victim impact statements at

11:29

that time of a victim

11:31

impact statement given by

11:33

a family victim that

11:37

may on the application of the prosecutor,

11:39

and if the court considers it appropriate to

11:41

do so, be considered and

11:44

taken into account by a court in connection with

11:46

the determination of the punishment for the

11:48

offense on the basis that the harmful

11:50

impact of the primary

11:52

victim's death on the members of the primary

11:54

victim's immediate family is

11:56

an aspect of the harm done to the

11:58

community.

12:00

Statements already in court

12:02

by or on behalf of Lannett

12:04

Dawson's daughter, Chanel Dawson. her

12:06

brother Gregory Sims and her sister

12:08

Patricia Jenkins. A

12:11

significant and understandable theme that

12:13

emerges from these statement is their

12:15

painful uncertainty over four decades

12:17

about the fate of their mother or

12:19

sister exacerbated now by

12:21

the latter day clarification of what

12:23

happened to her. and who was

12:25

responsible for it. I have

12:27

considered and taken these statements into

12:29

account to the extent permitted by

12:31

law. However, I should clearly

12:33

indicate that I would have arrived at the

12:35

sentence I intend to impose even without the

12:37

benefit of the victim's sentiments expressed

12:39

in this way. It

12:41

can hardly be controversial that in killing his wife,

12:44

mister Dawson must be taken to have

12:46

known and appreciated the injury,

12:48

emotional harm, and loss. that

12:50

his actions were likely to cause to Lynette

12:53

Dawson's daughters and her other

12:55

relatives. The presence or

12:57

absence of statements from victims of

12:59

mister Dawson's crime does not alter that

13:01

obvious conclusion even though

13:03

in this case those statements eloquently

13:06

articulate what common experience and

13:08

understanding of human affairs would

13:10

otherwise lead one to expect. The

13:12

significance of a death is not

13:14

only to be measured by the suffering

13:16

of those who are left to endure

13:18

it. Mister

13:21

Dawson was born in nineteen forty eight and is

13:23

currently seventy four years of age.

13:25

He suffers from the physical effects of

13:28

having participated in contact sport,

13:30

including professional rugby league, at

13:32

an elite level in his twenties. mister

13:34

Dawson sustained a series of head injuries

13:36

during this time, including loss of consciousness.

13:38

More recently, mister Dawson

13:41

has sustained injuries in falls,

13:43

also associated with loss

13:45

of consciousness. Mister

13:47

Dawson presently suffers from having

13:49

sustained a fractured hip. a fractured

13:51

rear end moderate aortic

13:53

regurgitation. Our brain

13:55

scan in April last year

13:57

revealed what appears to be micro

13:59

and geopathic vascular theme.

14:03

Mr. Dawson was examined a number of

14:05

times, but most recently on

14:07

to November twenty twenty two

14:09

by doctor Ola of Nielsen, a

14:11

psychiatrist whose report dated six

14:13

November twenty twenty two was tendered

14:15

in these proceedings. Doctor

14:18

Nielsen diagnosed mister Dawson to be

14:20

suffering from a depressive illness and

14:22

mild cognitive impairment.

14:25

He expressed opinions, the

14:27

details of which will appear in

14:31

the disease reasons when

14:33

published. It is unnecessary presently

14:35

to recite them now.

14:39

Mister Dawson maintains his

14:41

innocent and consistently with that position

14:43

has expressed no remorse for his

14:45

crime. He has no record of any

14:47

previous convictions, is a person

14:49

of prior good character. and for

14:51

associated reasons is highly unlikely

14:53

ever to reoffend. Those

14:56

matters are also informed by mister

14:58

Dawson's age and the fact that he will be much

15:00

older by the time he becomes eligible

15:02

for release on parole.

15:04

I consider that mister Dawson has good

15:06

prospects of rehabilitation Although

15:08

for obvious reasons, the significance

15:10

of that conclusion is in this

15:12

case necessarily reduced. I

15:16

have also taken account of the several testimonials

15:19

that speak to mister

15:21

Dawson's characteristics as a loving

15:23

father. a doting grandfather

15:25

and a loving and loyal husband.

15:27

These references from

15:30

Lannett Dawson's younger daughter dated

15:33

thirty one October twenty twenty two.

15:36

JC's only daughter, KB,

15:38

dated two November twenty twenty

15:40

two, and Mr. Dawson's

15:42

wife, Susan Dawson,

15:44

dated seven November twenty twenty

15:46

two.

15:47

I note without criticism

15:49

that other testimonials tendered on

15:51

mister Dawson's behalf all predate his

15:53

conviction, and would appear to

15:55

have been prepared for a different purpose?

15:57

be that as it may. The fact that they speak

15:59

favorably with mister Dawson

16:02

without an appreciation that

16:04

he has now been convicted of the murder of

16:06

his wife necessarily lessens

16:08

their force to some degree. The

16:12

purposes of sentencing as

16:15

provided by statute include

16:18

the following things

16:20

to ensure that the offender is

16:23

adequately punished for the offense. to

16:25

crime by deterring the offender and other

16:27

persons from committing similar offenses,

16:29

to protect the community from

16:32

the offender, promote

16:34

the rehabilitation of the offender,

16:36

to make the offender accountable

16:38

for his or her actions, to

16:40

denounce the conduct of the offender

16:43

and to recognize the harm done to the victim

16:45

of the crime and the community.

16:48

I have found that mister Dawson's

16:50

crime was inspired by an uncontrollable

16:53

desire to be with JC. It

16:55

was neither spontaneous nor

16:57

unavoidable. It is a

16:59

crime that should never be permitted to offer the slightest

17:02

encouragement to any person similarly

17:04

placed or similarly minded.

17:06

Mister

17:07

Dawson sentenced should reflect the

17:10

disapprobation with which his self indulgent

17:12

brutality must be viewed by Australian

17:14

society in plain terms. It

17:16

is not acceptable to take

17:18

someone's life merely because they represent

17:20

an inconvenient impediment. to

17:22

a particular result. I understand

17:25

the argument that so called crimes of

17:27

passions spontaneously committed

17:29

are not always a sound vehicle for

17:31

general deterrence. As will be

17:34

apparent, I do not consider that the murder of

17:36

Lynette Dawson fits that

17:38

description. In contrast, there is no need to sentence

17:40

mister Dawson in a way that specifically

17:42

does him from similar

17:45

reoffending. There is no

17:47

reasonably foreseeable prospect

17:49

that he will ever reoffend.

17:51

He will pose no threshold to

17:54

society upon his release from

17:56

jail. Mister Dawson

17:59

contains in these proceedings that the

18:01

publicity that attended his arrest and

18:03

conviction has been so persistent

18:05

and so unremitting that he

18:07

has been unfairly subjected to punishment

18:09

extending beyond that to which he might ordinarily have

18:12

been expected to endure.

18:14

A report dated five

18:16

August twenty twenty one, prepared by

18:19

doctor Donna issuous. A

18:21

clinical psychologist explains

18:23

mister Dawson's position in that

18:26

respect, and I have included in

18:28

these remarks some quotes

18:30

from that report, which will be

18:32

available in the way I earlier indicated.

18:35

Mister Dawson submitted relying

18:38

on matters such as that report that the adverse

18:40

publicity to which he has been subjected

18:42

has disproportionately carried over

18:44

to his current custodial

18:47

circumstances. and that by inference, it is likely to

18:49

continue. He is regularly

18:51

subject to vilification by

18:54

other inmates he is somewhat oddly

18:56

referred to as the teacher's pattern.

18:58

He is the subject of constant threats

19:00

of violence, although he concede

19:02

that is not an uncommon function

19:04

of prison life. It

19:07

was

19:07

submitted in detail on his

19:09

behalf that in the course of this particular

19:11

matter and over some considerable time.

19:14

Mister Dawson had been exposed to what

19:16

was described as probably the most

19:18

egregious publicity that one

19:20

could consider. in a context

19:22

of the criminal law. I

19:24

was referred in this respect to the

19:26

findings of Justice Fulton,

19:31

In

19:31

the twenty

19:34

the to eighty twenty New South Wales,

19:36

to prem court twelve twenty one and the observations of chief

19:38

justice Berthas at twenty

19:40

twenty one, NSWCCA 117

19:44

Their respective conclusions

19:47

were to the effect that the publicity generated

19:49

by the Teacher's podcast was the

19:51

worst example of prejudicial published

19:53

state that they had experienced. The

19:57

representations made by the authors of the podcast were

19:59

said to have portrayed

19:59

mister Dawson as an evil manipulative man, filthy

20:02

of the crime of murder and other

20:04

one as as greedy and narcissistic.

20:08

The publications involved literally

20:10

million literally millions of downloads,

20:12

not only throughout New South Wales, but

20:14

Australia and the world. Mister

20:17

Dawson and his family have been followed and

20:19

subjected to unwanted groupening. The

20:21

publicity affected mister Dawson,

20:23

both physically and psychologically. It

20:26

was submitted on mister Dawson's behalf

20:28

that the generated, publicity was not a

20:30

reasonable reaction to the commission of the

20:32

offense.

20:35

The publicity that has attended

20:37

this crime has undoubtedly been

20:39

intense. That is, to

20:41

some extent, a function of the several

20:43

decades over, and during

20:45

which speculation about Lannett Dawson's

20:47

faith has managed to ferment. I

20:50

would be sympathetic to mister

20:52

Dawson's concern that the media

20:54

attention will continue to have an adverse

20:57

impact upon him. If it were

20:59

not to the fact that I'm unable to

21:01

agree that whatever may have been the

21:03

position before his trial it will

21:05

continue to be unfair following his

21:07

conviction. Simply put mister

21:09

Dawson's crime is a matter of intense

21:11

public interest and the attention he

21:13

has received is directly referable

21:15

to that interest. It would be

21:17

otherwise if media reports

21:19

had significantly misrepresented his crime in a

21:21

way that created a false perception of what

21:23

he had done. His major

21:26

complaint went properly understood.

21:29

is that the publicity improperly

21:31

made assumptions about his guilt at

21:33

a time when he was entitled to the

21:35

presumption of innocence. Mister

21:38

Dawson has now been convicted of the crime,

21:40

which attracted the publicity in

21:42

question. In those circumstances,

21:45

As harsh as it may sound to say so, mister

21:47

Dawson is now the author of his own misfortune.

21:50

Moreover, the critical

21:52

references by Justice Fulton and the former

21:54

chief justice arose in the con

21:57

context of mister Dawson's

21:59

application to stay the criminal proceedings

22:01

upon the basis that he could not

22:04

receive a fair trial. His

22:06

complaints were pertinent in that

22:08

setting. However, exceeding

22:10

to the proposition that mister Dawson

22:12

should now be granted some consent

22:14

and on sentence for the avalanche of publicity that

22:16

he has received and will

22:18

likely continue to receive. We're

22:20

not in my view begin assistent

22:22

with the later intervention of his conviction.

22:27

Lenette Dawson was murdered in January

22:29

nineteen eighty two. Mister

22:32

Dawson was arrested in December two

22:34

thousand and eighteen. He was

22:36

not convicted until August this

22:39

year. delay in his prosecution

22:41

means that mister Dawson is to be

22:43

sentenced according to the prevailing sentencing

22:45

practices at the time the event

22:47

was committed. in Sephora as those

22:49

practices can be ascertained. In

22:51

this respect, I observed that sentences

22:53

for murder have increased considerably in

22:55

the years since nineteen eighty two.

22:58

The introduction of the standard non parole period

23:00

for offenses committed after one February

23:02

two thousand and three

23:04

has contributed to that increase.

23:07

Former chief judge

23:09

in common law justice fraud

23:12

explained why delay is

23:15

relevant. In the

23:18

Queen and Blanca, he said the reason why

23:20

delays to be taken into account when

23:22

sentencing and offender relates first to the

23:24

fact of un suspense in which a

23:26

person may be left. Secondly,

23:28

to the demonstrated progress of the

23:30

offender towards rehabilitation during

23:32

the intervening period, And thirdly, to

23:34

the fact that a sentence for a style crime

23:37

does call for a measure of understanding

23:40

and flexibility. of approach. In

23:42

the present case, the delay

23:44

between the commission of the events and mister

23:47

Dawson's arrest and trial are not in my

23:49

view attributable to the

23:51

operation of the criminal justice

23:53

system in the relevant sense. It

23:55

would be otherwise if mister Dawson's trial

23:57

had been delayed because of failure by the prosecuting authorities

23:59

following his arrest to bring him

24:01

to trial in a timely way.

24:03

In this respect, two

24:06

periods that require consideration.

24:09

The first is the period leading up to mister

24:11

Dawson's arrest. mister

24:13

Dawson has for thirty six years been at large

24:15

in the community and living what

24:19

may

24:19

be regarded as a normal

24:22

life. He

24:22

was interviewed by the police in nineteen ninety one

24:24

and apparently discharged himself in such a

24:26

way that any suspicions about his involvement

24:29

in the death of his wife were

24:31

not enthusiastic particularly pursued until many

24:33

years later. Any state

24:35

of uncertain suspense under which

24:37

mister Dawson may have lay, but during that

24:39

period was a function of the

24:41

that he murdered his wife and might possibly be

24:44

apprehended, not because he was left wondering what the

24:46

police or the director of public court

24:48

prosecutions might do thereafter.

24:50

It could not be said that during that period, mister

24:52

Dawson was left confused or uncertain

24:55

as the result of anything said or done

24:57

by Teacher's. about what might

24:59

happen next or when that might

25:01

be. The second period

25:03

follows mister Dawson's arrest.

25:06

I can detect no delay properly understood

25:08

during that period that is

25:10

or was anything out of the ordinary

25:13

Indeed during that period, mister Dawson

25:15

actively agitated for the permanent stay

25:17

of the criminal proceedings against

25:20

him. He was entitled to

25:22

do so, but the legal processes

25:24

inevitably delayed his trial.

25:26

Any state of uncertain suspense

25:30

to which mister Dawson may have been

25:32

exposed in those circumstances related

25:34

principally, if not completely,

25:36

to the unpredictable outcome of his

25:39

stay application, and not to the question of whether the

25:41

director provided about whether he

25:43

intended to maintain

25:45

the prosecution. In

25:47

any event, the history of this

25:49

case makes plane mister Dawson has enjoyed

25:52

the until his arrest thirty six years

25:54

in the community and impeded by the taint of

25:56

a conviction for killing his wife or

25:59

by any punishment for doing

26:01

so. In a practical sense,

26:03

his denial of responsibility for that

26:05

crime has benefited him in obvious

26:08

ways. For

26:08

example, he married JC and they had

26:11

a child not

26:12

long after their divorce. He remarried

26:14

and remained so even though the

26:16

that relationship has suffered. in the

26:18

events that have occurred. It follows that

26:21

I'm unable to accept that mister Dawson

26:23

can legitimately embrace the alleged

26:25

burdens of any delay.

26:27

without simultaneously being required to

26:30

accept the benefits.

26:33

Section

26:36

forty four two of the Criminal Procedure

26:38

Act provides that the balance of the term of

26:40

a sentence must not exceed one third of

26:42

the non parole period of the sentence.

26:45

Unless the court decides that there are special

26:47

circumstances for it being

26:49

made. In this

26:51

case, mister and refers in submissions to the

26:53

following matters in support of why

26:56

I should vary the statutory

26:58

ratio between the parole and

27:00

non parole periods of the sentence I intend to

27:02

impose. Mister

27:04

Lawson has never previously been in

27:06

custody. He is a

27:08

person of a prior good character.

27:10

His prospects of rehabilitation

27:12

are good. He will or

27:14

may require an extended period of release on parole to

27:17

facilitate his reintegration into

27:19

society at the age

27:21

of seventy four years and

27:23

in poor health, say again, he

27:25

is seventy four years of age and in poor

27:28

health or deteriorating physical and

27:30

mental health. By

27:32

reason of these matters as well as the notoriety of

27:34

his crime, he will find the conditions

27:36

of incarceration more onerous

27:38

than most inmates. And

27:42

considering these submissions I've taken

27:44

into account, what has

27:46

been said on his behalf

27:48

It is sufficient for present

27:51

purposes that I indicate, that I

27:53

don't consider that the circumstances warrant

27:55

any matter modification of the statutory

27:58

ratio. Mister Dawson should serve at least

28:00

the whole of the non parole period of the

28:02

sense I intend to impose. Anything

28:06

less would not, in my view,

28:08

accord, with the proper application of the

28:10

sentencing principles for which the

28:12

act provides. Mister

28:14

Lawson is not

28:16

old by contemporary standards, but the

28:19

reality is that he will not live to reach the end of

28:21

his non parole period. or

28:23

will alternatively, by reason of

28:25

his deteriorating cognitive condition

28:27

and physical capacity, become

28:30

serious be disabled well before then

28:32

even if he does. I'm

28:35

nevertheless required to impose a sentence that

28:37

satisfies the community's expectations

28:40

of punishment retribution and

28:42

denunciation. A just

28:44

an appropriate sentence must accord

28:46

due recognition to the human dignity

28:48

of the victim of domestic violence

28:51

and the legitimate interest of the

28:53

general community in

28:55

denunciation and punishment of someone who

28:57

kills his spouse. Even

28:59

though such expectations must

29:01

be tempered by the need to extend

29:03

mercy where appropriate.

29:05

I recognize that the unavoidable unavoidable

29:09

prospect is that mister Dawson

29:11

will probably die in jail.

29:13

Mister Dawson, would you please

29:15

stand Christopher

29:17

Michael

29:20

Dawson for the murder of Lemette Dawson on

29:22

her about eight January nineteen eighty

29:25

two. I sentenced you to imprisonment for twenty

29:27

four years commencing on thirty

29:29

August twenty twenty two and expiring on

29:31

twenty nine August two thousand and

29:33

forty six. on parole period of

29:35

eighteen years expiring on twenty nine

29:37

August two thousand and forty. The

29:39

first day upon which you'll become

29:41

eligible for a lease on parole is

29:43

therefore thirty August two thousand

29:45

and forty. You may

29:47

sit down. And

29:50

finally, in compliance with Section twenty five, capital

29:52

c of the Crimes, Harris,Defenders Act.

29:54

I note that the provisions of that

29:56

Act have potential application to

29:59

you Mister Walsh may be

30:01

expected to provide you with further

30:03

information about that. Are

30:05

there any other matters before June?

30:08

Mister Dawson, would you

30:10

please go with the officers now?

30:16

i'm it

30:25

Hold

30:26

a

30:27

shot. You

30:34

know? And

30:37

with that, Dawson was gone back

30:39

through the padded door, down

30:41

to the cells, deep below,

30:44

then into a prison van to return to

30:47

custody. Now, let's hear from Hadley

30:49

Thomas, taking us right back to

30:51

where it all began.

30:52

In the

30:54

days and weeks leading up

30:56

to Christmas twenty seventeen, five

30:58

years ago, I started talking to

31:00

some remarkable women. Julie Andrew,

31:02

who was Lynn Dawson's good friend and

31:05

next door neighbor on that hilltop

31:07

of rugged beauty at Gilwinga

31:09

Drive Bayview. above

31:11

Sydney's sunny northern beaches.

31:14

Sue Strathlin's colleague and friend from the

31:16

child care center who tried so

31:18

hard to force police to do

31:20

their jobs properly in the nineteen eighties

31:22

and treat the devoted mother's

31:24

disappearance as probable foul

31:26

play. Rebecca Hazel, a

31:28

writer and ocean swimmer who became

31:30

friends with Lynn's teenage

31:33

replacement JC. the

31:35

former Chroma High student and

31:37

Dawson family babysitter. Years

31:39

after JC had left

31:42

Chris Dawson. and Robin Wheeler who reached out to

31:44

me immediately after the first

31:46

episode of the teacher's pet was

31:48

released in May twenty eighteen.

31:51

Robin had been at Croma High

31:53

School with JC and

31:55

remembers her well. And

31:57

like so many who were there, still

31:59

shatters at the culture of the school

32:01

and the conduct of the PE teacher,

32:04

Christopher Michael Dawson. In

32:06

the days leading up to Dawson sentencing,

32:09

we've been back in touch, reflecting

32:11

on Lynn's case. how

32:13

it touched us and so

32:15

many people, how we've got

32:18

here. It

32:18

has been a privilege to know these

32:21

special women these past five

32:23

years. They and many others who helped police

32:25

and the podcast have made

32:27

a profound difference. You're going

32:29

to hear their voices now.

32:32

Perhaps for the final time in the

32:34

teacher's pet and the teacher's trial

32:36

series. It is time

32:38

with Dawson's prison sentence

32:40

being declared to start to draw a

32:43

line. I thank them and everyone who

32:45

has helped and listened and

32:47

backed this case when at

32:49

times it must have seemed hopeless. I must

32:52

admit that

32:52

I've been sort of putting it out of my

32:55

head. It took me a while to sort

32:57

of come down to a

32:59

emotional level that I

33:01

felt comfortable with after the

33:03

trial? Do

33:03

you feel that you've

33:05

changed or moved forward since this

33:08

all started? Oh, yes.

33:08

Yes. In that, there's a

33:11

resolution. There's a resolution to

33:14

forty years of doubts

33:16

and cheese and

33:20

pain. And so, of course, it's

33:22

a combination of all those

33:24

things.

33:24

The same thing tomorrow.

33:27

brings

33:27

the

33:28

tragic saga that you and I have

33:30

been involved in to an

33:32

end. That's the final

33:35

word. I've spoken

33:36

a few times since

33:37

the end of the trial, and it

33:39

did take me a while to really work

33:42

through everything I was feeling.

33:44

especially

33:44

when I heard Snell's

33:46

fake that upset me

33:47

because San Hardy at the

33:50

same night, And

33:54

my children have had a wonderful

33:57

life. I mean, we've done our own sorrows

33:59

in our

33:59

family life. that they've had their mother. I

34:02

wasn't taken from

34:04

not only not having their mother,

34:06

but being said lies about

34:08

what had

34:08

happened to her mother. That was a sad really sad thing

34:11

to see that your mother

34:13

has left you. I don't

34:15

always

34:15

mind trying that. through

34:18

everything

34:19

I said about men was

34:21

that she would never leave her

34:24

children knowing the woman and knowing

34:26

her connection she would

34:28

never have walked out the door without her babies.

34:30

So I think the fact that

34:32

I'm I'm seeing my children, my grandchildren,

34:35

we've all had our lives.

34:38

But

34:38

even though

34:40

Lynne hasn't, Lynne has

34:42

been forty years

34:44

dead, her memory. It's free. We can all just enjoy

34:46

the wonderful memories we have of

34:48

him. She's extremely young.

34:50

When I think of him,

34:53

She is that same person, that

34:55

same gorgeous, fair

34:56

head, smiley face, gentle

34:59

woman

34:59

that I knew then. And that gives

35:02

me great comfort her

35:03

demise was

35:06

shocking.

35:06

What she lived with Christine about

35:08

last year or two of her life, many

35:10

many women can go through

35:12

trials in their marriage

35:13

and have that go through family

35:16

breakdown and don't have to go through what she

35:18

went through. to the point of

35:20

having to kill her, to

35:22

remove her. So I just

35:23

sort of feel now that

35:25

she's been vindicated his family

35:27

have been indicated. His friends

35:30

have been indicated in

35:32

what we've been saying.

35:34

You've been dedicated to your incredible efforts to

35:36

bring this to everyone's attention.

35:40

And with the sentencing, that's

35:43

the line going through.

35:46

We got

35:46

there. We did this. But this is

35:48

the way it's gonna be changed with

35:51

great sadness. I'm just concentrate on the

35:53

wonderful memories that I have with

35:55

them. Now does it sort of finished?

35:57

It's sort of like, oh, where do I

35:59

put a locomotion? Where do

36:01

I put it? See, she

36:04

comes into my head all the time. Three

36:06

four times a week, I had this

36:08

overwhelm and thought of her. I know it sort of

36:10

seemed to my stowage. I said, like, it's great hot.

36:12

You can

36:12

defrost. You're fine. We got

36:15

you. I remember you saying, to

36:17

me and in the podcast that in

36:20

your

36:20

dreams, sometimes

36:22

you're saying,

36:23

sorry to learn

36:25

everything you've done. particularly

36:28

over the last five years.

36:30

You don't need to be saying,

36:32

sorry anymore. I wouldn't

36:34

really feel the pain of the pain

36:36

between of the fact that I didn't

36:38

react. And I'm sure I'm not alone in that. His family are much

36:40

more connected with what was happening

36:42

in its time. But in

36:45

their case, this very

36:47

juvenile assisted him in such a long, and they

36:49

they told him that he's magic trick,

36:51

that he's

36:52

skill.

36:55

And

36:55

you could see that even through the trial.

36:57

It was dumbfounded that you he

36:59

was found guilty. Like, how

37:01

could

37:01

they find me guilty? I'm

37:03

Crystal with them. But I think

37:05

in my case, because I was

37:07

very aware, I was chatting with a,

37:09

you know, one to one young

37:11

married women with our babies

37:14

having a normal pet

37:16

shops in the

37:18

outside of to protect her because I

37:20

didn't know how.

37:22

I didn't know that I could

37:24

or that I should. And

37:27

so now with the experience of of a

37:29

large long lead just as I am

37:31

now as an older

37:34

woman, Yeah.

37:35

Of course, we do things differently. We

37:38

protect women differently. But back

37:40

then, it was

37:40

not done to question people

37:42

in authority to question the

37:44

police. So when

37:45

nothing happens, and it was all

37:48

just sort of forgotten for

37:50

years. It always knew something was gonna happen,

37:52

but I just didn't

37:54

know how. this

37:54

happened forty years ago when things were very,

37:56

very different to women. I

37:58

don't feel guilty of the

37:59

way to do it now. I'm much more

38:02

opposed to

38:02

And I'm

38:04

hoping that her family also

38:06

feel that peace after tomorrow's

38:09

sentencing this part is

38:11

done for all of us, and it was

38:13

a very difficult and emotional

38:15

journey. I've got

38:18

great respect. for the

38:20

next friends who for

38:22

so valued for her, you know, she's

38:24

driving so many other people. and

38:26

for his family, but, I mean, to think that they're gonna have a Christmas tree

38:29

like no other. They've

38:31

never have been able

38:34

to celebrate Christmas knowing

38:36

what they know now.

38:38

And I think

38:41

that

38:41

will give them as a

38:43

family group, a great sense of relief to

38:45

know that they can sit around their

38:47

Christmas table, however

38:50

they celebrate, and remember

38:52

their parents. So if

38:54

you were to film,

38:57

knowing

38:57

that

38:58

the revolution is clear, And

39:00

what happened to her? The last

39:03

one that I will

39:04

say tell you how important you've

39:07

been. your incredible

39:10

contributions,

39:10

particularly in the first episode,

39:13

just really ensure that

39:15

people would pay attention. I

39:18

think because of the fact that I had not protected women

39:21

or forced women early on,

39:23

when you gave me the

39:26

opportunity to be able to use my voice

39:28

allowed me to say exactly what

39:30

I what and that is

39:34

I never put any punches. So I didn't say, oh, he Chris

39:36

might have killed Lynn or he

39:38

could have killed Lynn. I said

39:41

he killed Lynn. And I knew that was

39:43

a

39:43

huge line in my

39:46

hand, but I didn't I didn't

39:48

qualify

39:48

that

39:50

remark. I

39:51

can remember my my son who's a lawyer saying, you

39:53

know, really, I don't think he

39:55

should've said that. And

39:57

I said, you know what, Danny, he wants to excuse

39:59

me and plan to bring it

40:02

on. He's not gonna do that. He's

40:04

a coward. But,

40:05

yeah, my family were a little

40:07

anxious because I didn't catch my bed. So

40:09

I went in bed for all,

40:11

but I appreciated the fact that

40:14

I finally had a chance to

40:15

speak on her behalf. And then

40:17

you were listening.

40:20

and you didn't tell me what to say. You didn't catch

40:23

my my remarks. You

40:25

allowed me to speak and unfreeze

40:27

the grateful of that.

40:30

that

40:30

I was

40:31

able to participate and be a

40:33

part of finding,

40:36

finally, justice for that

40:38

beautiful girl. She was the most

40:40

beautiful woman. I hope Chanel

40:42

can now find peace and put her own

40:44

child, her own daughter. and be

40:46

comforted by the fact that things were not that she

40:48

was told. Mhmm.

40:50

A friend

40:50

wanted to send a text and said, did you hear

40:52

the news? Chris Johnson's been charged

40:55

I

40:55

mean, it's murder, and then you rang me.

40:57

And I said, oh my gosh. I

40:59

only just found out. And

41:01

you said said something to the effect of

41:03

how how do you feel? And I said,

41:05

well, look, I'm just happy that he's been

41:06

charged. If he gets damaged,

41:08

he will add sizing on the cake. But

41:10

at least

41:10

he's got to stand and face

41:14

the charges. And I really didn't think we'd get

41:16

any further than that. I

41:18

knew that he'd go through the trial.

41:21

I thought somehow he's going

41:24

to ease and be

41:25

slippery, and he's gonna get out

41:27

of this.

41:27

Even though I

41:30

had confidence in

41:30

the mountain of evidence you done with some of

41:33

which wasn't in the

41:34

podcast because of the legal reasons.

41:37

and then the the police doing their due

41:40

diligence and report.

41:42

I was always just so pleased

41:45

that the podcast gathered

41:47

so much attention that it put pressure through

41:49

other major outlets, like in

41:51

four to one TGB, and

41:54

I'll then set up a late commissioner to

41:57

actually do something

41:58

about it. And now I just don't

41:59

think of him

42:02

at all. I just I know where he is. He's in a green jump

42:04

suit. He's having

42:04

his three squares a day. He's

42:07

got his freedom denied.

42:08

But he's still alive, isn't

42:10

he? Where is

42:11

he in the state? He can just

42:14

stay there as far as I'm concerned.

42:15

NEP is that overall and

42:18

he's bubbling and ninety five year old man, I

42:19

don't know. I went kids. He's still done

42:22

his

42:22

time. He hasn't he's still been done guilty of

42:24

murder. That's

42:26

all

42:26

it matters to me. But now,

42:28

he's a murderer,

42:30

and we all know he's a murderer.

42:32

It is such an out there story

42:34

It's a sort of thing you would

42:37

make up, really.

42:38

You hear the

42:38

the cold side back to

42:41

it. That's

42:41

incredible health. it has

42:43

had such an impact on so many

42:46

people who knew

42:47

nothing about

42:50

the individuals. And it's listed profile of women

42:52

generally who have

42:52

disappeared under strange circumstances

42:55

or not? It has.

42:57

the head And

42:58

that's gonna be her legacy. Her legacy

43:00

will be forever

43:02

now to speaking

43:04

out

43:04

in protection of women. that's

43:07

your legacy. People can

43:10

take something from that.

43:12

Mhmm. And

43:13

she will never ever be forgotten. Well,

43:15

she was not gonna be forgotten by those. She her anyway. That's where

43:17

her touches so many more people,

43:19

does not. Mhmm. and

43:22

light on an area that

43:24

we buried for so long. And

43:26

we can't wait

43:26

to never ever have imagined. On

43:28

these days, if you say something,

43:31

I don't know. Let's say something. I

43:34

think

43:34

we're more locked right now. And that's

43:36

that's what I've had to to forgive myself.

43:38

Now it's a

43:39

good way to end. It's a it was the

43:42

best wide range.

43:44

It's

43:44

a very best wide range. It's

43:46

always

43:46

wonderful to talk to you. And

43:48

you too. Okay. Take

43:50

care. Hi, Hadley.

43:52

Good day.

43:54

Here we are again.

43:56

After many many years, I

43:59

have this not

43:59

the last time we talked about. Dave and I have

44:02

organized to go into the city on

44:04

Friday. How are you feeling

44:05

about it? I'm

44:07

feeling pretty

44:08

good about it, actually. Finally, forty

44:10

one years is a long

44:12

time. Mhmm. It's really good.

44:14

while I saw you when Chris was

44:16

connected -- Yeah. -- and

44:18

that was a big day.

44:20

Was it ever here? everyone

44:24

for everyone,

44:25

I think. Did you

44:26

know much about podcasts when you

44:29

and I started talking? No.

44:32

I

44:32

listened to a little bit, but not much. But

44:34

I did know about them, and I'm an

44:37

avid podcast now.

44:39

When we started talking, what did

44:41

you want to do? What did

44:43

you hope to achieve? I

44:46

didn't

44:46

realize it was gonna achieve

44:48

so much and I couldn't believe just

44:51

how many people in the Northern bitches

44:53

have a story about this country.

44:55

Everybody's got a story. like,

44:58

I went to this pineapple fun day, and this girl came

45:01

up to me. I didn't even know her, and

45:03

she said, you know, you're

45:05

my hero anyway. I

45:08

didn't know her. She said, 0II knew where you

45:10

lived. And I thought, oh my god. I thought it'd

45:12

stalker as well. And, you know, I

45:15

think hard. Some people have come up to me and talk to

45:17

me and I was just like,

45:20

gosh.

45:20

Wow. And

45:22

a lot of people have said

45:25

I know so and so all that happened

45:27

to me at this school, my

45:29

friend, you know, that happened to

45:31

them and just so many

45:33

people.

45:33

tentacles reached out everywhere. There was not

45:36

just Chris. There was

45:38

also

45:38

Paul,

45:40

and

45:40

both of them had the

45:43

dealings with schoolgirls. And it is

45:46

insular, peninsula. There's always

45:48

stories going around. Could you

45:50

expect

45:50

that we would get to this point?

45:54

No.

45:54

I probably hoped,

45:56

but I think I'd sort of given

45:58

up hope. I can still remember

46:00

sitting in your land stream and

46:03

going next door and telling the the man with the lawn

46:05

mower to be quiet. I've forgotten that bit. Did

46:07

I do that?

46:09

It is. No. I

46:11

think they were delivering there's something

46:13

making a big loud noise and you went and could they have lunch

46:15

early or something? Anyway, something

46:17

like that happened. How

46:19

has it changed your

46:22

outlook or your own

46:24

perception of truth and

46:26

crime and justice?

46:28

I'm nowadays, people would

46:30

do what I did. You know, it's just

46:33

times adjustment. People

46:34

didn't rob the boat, and

46:37

Now that people stand up, like,

46:40

leading a bit more high, it would

46:42

have got looked at straightaway.

46:44

Something like that. It was a

46:46

different era. it

46:47

was the rich men

46:50

here. So

46:50

I think nowadays, people would

46:52

do something about it and And

46:54

I think the police would also do something about it if

46:57

there was somebody making

47:00

noises. The judge was

47:02

just amazing. during the trial,

47:04

I just thought the

47:06

truth just

47:06

rebelled itself. Do

47:07

you remember your

47:10

actual emotion? on the

47:12

day of the verdict?

47:14

Stone.

47:14

Stone

47:16

was like, did he

47:17

really say that? I

47:19

was right at the front, but I didn't

47:21

get into the main court rooms. There was

47:23

a lot of people and

47:25

everyone cheered and you know, we've all made a lot of

47:27

noise and there was tears and it was pretty

47:30

emotional. Is it gonna do the Supreme

47:32

Court? Yes.

47:34

Oh, good.

47:34

You know your way around it now. And why are

47:36

you planning to go? On Friday. I'd

47:39

just

47:39

like to finish. It's

47:41

like the end. the book is

47:43

closed. It's like reading

47:44

a story. We start, and I was

47:47

at

47:47

the start. And now this

47:50

is the last

47:51

page, not even the last chapter, the last page. This is

47:53

the sentence.

47:54

One

47:55

of the reasons talking

47:58

to you and to Julian

47:59

Andrew and and Rebecca and

48:02

others is for that reason, it does

48:04

feel like the end. We need to draw

48:06

a line under this Yep.

48:09

Yep. Finished.

48:10

I said, I've been asked to do

48:12

other interviews in this night now.

48:15

finished.

48:16

I think everyone feels like that.

48:18

We've got what

48:19

we've set out to

48:22

achieve. That's

48:24

it. Because story and put her to rest. Well,

48:25

we might we'll probably never put her to

48:27

rest till her body

48:30

remains them.

48:31

But Chris will never

48:33

get that away, I don't think.

48:35

I've made

48:35

some great friends through this,

48:38

and I can hear you as well as

48:40

guys. And I'm nice.

48:42

It might be finished, but, you know, I'm still

48:44

gonna drop in for a changeover.

48:46

Oh, that

48:47

would be lovely. That would be

48:49

lovely. Hey there. How's

48:50

how you doing? I'm I'm

48:52

good. How are you? How are you

48:54

feeling about the sentencing? I'm

48:56

not good about it because I think the

48:59

net can't

48:59

be brought back, but a lot

49:01

of people

49:02

will feel

49:04

more content knowing

49:05

that he's in jail, doing time for

49:07

this murder. You and I

49:09

have remained

49:10

friends for five

49:13

years since we first met through

49:15

this. But I just wanted to thank you

49:17

for being such a good friend and

49:20

ally and for supporting what I

49:22

was doing even when it

49:24

became a runaway train,

49:28

which kind of possibly made you feel a bit

49:30

left behind and you've still be able to manage

49:33

a really important

49:34

friendship. Thanks. I'm

49:37

so

49:37

happy to have

49:39

meet you and if it

49:41

means so much, I mean, the journey has been up

49:43

and down and and sideways and really

49:45

and really hard. We're pretty honest

49:47

with each other

49:50

and I

49:51

think we both want it to endure. I mean,

49:53

we knew this thing so intimately. If it's true

49:55

that

49:55

without the

49:57

podcast, they wouldn't

49:59

have been in

50:01

prosecution. Then it's also true that without

50:04

you, without

50:04

there you with that help

50:07

you gave

50:09

me and some

50:10

of the incredible material that

50:12

you were able to share with me.

50:14

They wouldn't have

50:15

been there in, like, this kind

50:17

of podcast that touched so

50:20

many people that you had to think long and

50:22

hard about doing that. And then I know

50:24

you did it for the right reasons. and I my

50:26

best to add what flavor I

50:28

could. It was a great pleasure. I

50:30

was thinking about some of our

50:32

days in the field together going to the

50:35

house at Gilwingham Drive. Remember that

50:37

day we spent

50:38

at the Met Leary's house.

50:40

leary have how

50:42

can we ever forget that? What a day? I'm

50:45

not a day in hell, isn't

50:47

it? And then the

50:47

recording didn't

50:50

work. was just enough to break the spirit really wasn't

50:52

important that she was so patient

50:54

and -- Mhmm. -- she wasn't

50:58

well. and she just

51:00

agreed that, okay, you

51:02

can come back and do it again.

51:04

And we thought we

51:06

were gonna fire

51:08

from the other time.

51:10

We were both

51:10

really committed to just well, there's no other

51:12

option. I mean, it was really,

51:15

really important. So you'd we weren't

51:17

gonna walk away with us to find this is really hard, but

51:19

of a guy going. Going

51:21

out to me, Carl will abandon it.

51:23

It's the former governor.

51:26

He was

51:27

amazing. Speaking to me

51:29

and then speaking to you on podcast. It

51:31

was very actually a very brave thing

51:33

for him to do. I

51:35

agree. And he has

51:38

no doubt had some

51:40

them

51:41

fellow judges. reviewing what

51:44

he did and uptighting, but

51:46

he made a powerful difference.

51:48

He did the right thing. in

51:50

a perfect world. Things would proceed in an

51:53

orderly fashion saying the

51:55

criminal justice system but

51:58

hardly ever happens, and it had

51:59

certainly not happened since when it

52:02

disappeared on

52:02

the ninth of January nineteen ninety two.

52:04

So extraordinary things had to be done.

52:07

him

52:07

back when he did what he couldn't.

52:09

Let me

52:09

first meet at Bondi and had

52:12

that lunch and got to know each

52:14

other a bit more. what

52:15

did you think would come off what we

52:17

were talking about doing together?

52:20

I honestly

52:20

didn't know, but seemed like

52:24

hugely into the dark.

52:26

More you than me, obviously. So

52:28

you have more on the line. I think

52:30

we were both incredibly nervous. You

52:32

had more to lose. I mean,

52:35

you didn't know if it was gonna

52:36

work, if anyone would listen. I

52:39

mean, look back on that. You know, we honestly thought,

52:41

is anyone gonna listen? And to look back

52:43

from where we are

52:46

now, we had

52:48

no idea in that sense, you're a risk taker. When

52:50

you came to me and you said, I'm

52:52

going to air the

52:54

first episode. whatever the diet

52:56

was in my name. And I just

52:58

couldn't believe that, you know, that's what he's

53:00

doing. Like,

53:02

all the episodes aren't done, but

53:04

The instinct was just so odd. And then

53:07

saying people would come out of the

53:09

roadwork and contacting you in a way that they

53:11

wouldn't have done if you've done it

53:14

in print. It was this medium. was immediate

53:16

and intimate. It was just

53:18

an

53:18

extraordinary phenomenon. When we

53:22

first met, In fact, when

53:23

first emailed me years before we

53:26

first met -- Mhmm. -- you were working on your

53:28

book and -- Mhmm.

53:30

-- I hope it's close to publication.

53:33

I hope so.

53:35

And and unfortunately, once he

53:37

was charged, my book was subject

53:39

to some jealousy

53:41

law. So I'm really

53:42

hoping that soon once that's all

53:44

resolved, you know, hopefully the book

53:46

will be published because it's been sitting

53:49

there for long time waiting to be

53:52

printed. What's it called? It's the longest

53:54

toddler in the world, Hadley. It's the

53:56

school girl, her t- shot, and

53:58

his wife. what is it,

53:59

in your view, Rebecca,

54:02

about Lynn's

54:04

case that has

54:06

so compelled,

54:08

so horrified and grabbed so many

54:10

millions of people. Sometimes

54:12

there

54:13

are places

54:14

where nearly

54:18

not apparent what might have

54:20

happened. But anyone

54:22

who

54:22

ever heard about Leonard Dawson

54:25

and Chris Dawson and NYSE

54:28

It wasn't that the police didn't know. And

54:30

I think

54:31

people were really agitated

54:33

about

54:33

that. We had a social contract, and

54:35

that is the police

54:38

investigate

54:38

what we're doing in

54:40

the society, and if all could say

54:42

that this was a murder, and then you're not attempt

54:45

to You're talking there about the

54:47

gross injustice that everyone

54:51

can see

54:52

that wasn't acted upon. It

54:54

wasn't

54:54

it could have gone on. It was so obvious to have gone out

54:56

that he had killed him.

54:58

I always

54:59

believed that it

55:01

would be possible

55:03

to see a conviction of Chris

55:06

Dawson all these years

55:08

later, you were not nearly

55:10

in that place where you No.

55:12

Not

55:12

at all. Not at

55:13

all. Thirty six years had passed,

55:16

but story was known.

55:18

JC

55:18

had gone to the police detectors

55:21

had put the questions to Chris Dawson, did you murder

55:23

your wife? And nothing had been done.

55:25

And I thought it had

55:28

gone up. and nothing's been done. And the and the longer it went

55:30

on, I thought the more unlikely.

55:32

I never thought I would see this

55:34

day. And usually, it was possible and

55:36

it's true. I think you

55:38

had to hire steadily. You had to hire any

55:40

experience that you're working and have

55:42

real impact? I don't.

55:44

I'm

55:44

not a journalist. It's a really great thing.

55:47

You're a wonderful writer. Well,

55:50

Hazel, it's not

55:50

gonna bother me. I don't

55:52

know. I don't know. No.

55:55

I'm gonna be friends forever, and

55:56

we'll go and do something else,

55:59

six children and just

55:59

get to that thing. That'd

56:02

be great.

56:03

It's

56:04

been

56:05

not quite five years since we

56:08

started talking and so

56:10

much has happened. Chris Dawson

56:12

is going to be sentenced, having been

56:14

convicted at the end of August. I think

56:16

a lot of

56:17

people are waiting with beta breath to see

56:19

what that outcome is.

56:21

How do you reflect

56:22

on the past?

56:24

It's been a

56:25

strange time in

56:26

so many different ways. Hasn't it?

56:30

after thirty six years of

56:31

nothing, then there has

56:34

been four and a half

56:36

years of

56:37

thinking that something

56:40

has to happen and

56:42

just that suspense and

56:43

then COVID taking two

56:45

years out of that but

56:47

it's great. It's coming to an end.

56:49

Well, when you were such an

56:51

integral early mover when the podcast

56:54

first started in

56:56

contacting me, and you wanted to make contact

56:58

because you were the

57:00

vice captain at Chroma State

57:04

High School. and you had known Chris

57:06

Dawson and JC, you had

57:08

witnessed so

57:10

much. And I hadn't talked

57:12

to any former students until

57:14

you made that telephone call

57:17

very early in the past. What were

57:19

you thinking at that time?

57:21

I had actually

57:22

seen the photo

57:24

of Chris Dawson on the front

57:26

page of the Australian on a Saturday.

57:29

at my local news agency. And I saw

57:31

his face and I thought, oh,

57:33

not this

57:34

again. Not this

57:36

again. Of course, I listened to the podcast, and I thought,

57:38

could it really be

57:40

that

57:40

something is gonna happen this

57:44

time? I thought that the story was coming out in

57:47

isolation from the

57:48

context in which the

57:52

events occurred. at that time.

57:54

That's why I contacted you because I

57:56

wanted to share that

57:58

his behavior wasn't

57:59

isolated. It was common at the

58:02

school at that time

58:04

for teachers to be having

58:06

inappropriate relationships with

58:08

female students. I

58:10

wanted

58:10

to put you in that picture

58:12

and give you the context. Did you

58:14

believe then that we may get

58:16

to where we are now? I'd

58:18

hoped that we would be where we are now.

58:20

And I had hoped

58:22

that through

58:23

the power

58:24

of the media, you

58:27

could shine the light very brightly on

58:29

what had happened and the injustices

58:31

that had

58:33

occurred at not just at Cromwell

58:35

High School, but we knew it was happening

58:38

on various schools on the northern

58:40

beaches. And as it

58:42

turns out,

58:42

as as it turned out so

58:44

many people have since then said to me, oh, that

58:46

happened at

58:46

my school as well. It was just

58:49

a different time. We've come so

58:51

far, I think, since

58:53

then. When you

58:55

think about the performance

58:57

of police and

59:00

of the Office of the DPP back

59:02

many years. What is

59:04

your take from all of that?

59:07

I think

59:07

it's shameful. Their lack

59:09

of interest or their lack

59:11

of activity was appalling.

59:14

There's so much they're heavily.

59:16

well known sports person or a

59:18

celebrity disappeared and had that person

59:20

be male, they would have jumped

59:22

on it

59:24

straight away. I think there was

59:25

a degree of Chris Dawson's profile

59:27

preventing them or deterring

59:29

them from pursuing it with any

59:31

kind

59:31

of vigor. I

59:33

think that because Lynn was

59:36

a woman

59:36

and essentially they considered

59:39

her to be a housewife they

59:42

didn't pursue it as they should

59:44

have. It was disrespectful. It

59:46

was just appalling. It

59:47

was so typical of the

59:49

way women, young women were

59:52

treated during that time and particularly

59:54

on the northern beaches in that

59:56

beach culture. not just the

59:58

police and the DPP. The Department of

59:59

Education didn't do its job

1:00:02

properly

1:00:02

either. And teachers who were

1:00:04

in trust stood with the well-being and

1:00:06

safety of students instead

1:00:09

took

1:00:09

advantage of students.

1:00:11

Seventy lives were ruined. and only now

1:00:13

are we starting to get some form

1:00:16

of justice? You reconnected

1:00:17

with a number of your old school

1:00:20

friends through the

1:00:22

podcast development and you would often refer

1:00:24

some of them to me or keep me

1:00:26

informed about what was

1:00:28

going on. has

1:00:30

it been something of a journey for you and them? I

1:00:33

heard from

1:00:34

some of the most

1:00:36

of the nice unexpected

1:00:38

unexpected contacts,

1:00:41

people reconnected and

1:00:44

shared

1:00:44

information, people

1:00:46

reconnected and said they couldn't

1:00:48

speak to you, but they

1:00:51

wanted me to know that there

1:00:53

was more information available. it

1:00:55

was really interesting in as much

1:00:58

as you could tell

1:01:00

by

1:01:00

age fifteen or sixteen what

1:01:03

a person was like And even

1:01:05

in their fifties,

1:01:06

the same people, the people

1:01:07

who regarded the truth and

1:01:10

honesty and

1:01:12

integrity to be important,

1:01:15

still regard

1:01:16

those things, those qualities

1:01:18

is important in their fifties. And

1:01:20

what's the sense now amongst

1:01:22

your peers, Robin, now that this case has been

1:01:25

solved, do you hear

1:01:27

from people who have

1:01:29

talked to you about the

1:01:31

way have perceived things that have

1:01:34

unfolded and where we've got to?

1:01:36

That's a great

1:01:36

question. Given that next year

1:01:39

will be the fortieth anniversary of

1:01:41

my year completing their HSC. And there

1:01:44

are two

1:01:46

very different

1:01:48

reactions. Some people are delighted

1:01:51

that it's all being

1:01:53

brought to life.

1:01:54

and that he's been

1:01:57

convicted. And others are

1:02:00

not

1:02:00

interested and or in denial.

1:02:02

They just don't wanna know about it.

1:02:04

It's a very personal reaction. Do

1:02:06

you have any regrets

1:02:07

about your engagement?

1:02:10

None whatsoever.

1:02:10

none whatsoever you

1:02:12

know, what I've found really nice

1:02:14

as this has gone on is the friendships

1:02:17

that have been made and getting

1:02:19

to know people like you

1:02:22

and feel and bev and others

1:02:24

from that school and staying

1:02:26

loosely in touch and trying to organize

1:02:28

catch ups and things. It's been

1:02:32

nice. you

1:02:32

and Dave Murray treated

1:02:34

all of us with respect

1:02:37

and you

1:02:39

made time. I

1:02:41

understand amount of work that you did and the

1:02:44

number of people stakeholders you had

1:02:46

and you were in contact

1:02:48

with, and the result that you

1:02:50

managed to shake out where

1:02:52

various departments couldn't achieve anything

1:02:54

in thirty six years is a

1:02:56

credit to what you guys do

1:02:58

and what you have done. That's

1:03:00

very kind. Thank you, Robin. The prosecution was outstanding and

1:03:03

the work of Dan Cool

1:03:05

who took over

1:03:08

for the cold case homicide unit. He

1:03:12

obviously uncovered new ground,

1:03:14

and I had a big difference.

1:03:17

but who knows where we would have been if there had never been

1:03:19

a podcast. It's that sort of

1:03:22

unanswerable question.

1:03:24

You've got

1:03:24

people talking about it and there

1:03:26

was really no backing away from it

1:03:29

because everybody recognized the injustice

1:03:31

that had occurred. Let's

1:03:34

take a

1:03:36

quick break.

1:03:45

teacher's trial is made possible

1:03:48

by subscribers to the Australian

1:03:50

and by our principal sponsor

1:03:52

Harvey Norman. For over five years, Harvey Norman has been a

1:03:54

key partner in the Australians

1:03:56

investigative podcast. The

1:03:59

Australians

1:03:59

comprehensive coverage of the

1:04:01

trial now is only made possible with the

1:04:04

support of our subscribers and our

1:04:06

partnership with

1:04:08

Harvey Norman.

1:04:08

Welcome

1:04:18

back to episode twenty two of the teachers'

1:04:21

trial. Let's go back to the New

1:04:23

South Wales Supreme Court. just

1:04:26

after Chris Dawson disappeared

1:04:28

into the

1:04:30

cells. We just stepped out of the

1:04:31

Nissan of our Supreme Court, and we're joined by

1:04:33

Greg and Marilyn and Renaissance.

1:04:35

and I'm here with Matthew Condon. They're

1:04:37

very nice for you to share the microphone with Matt

1:04:39

Greg, but you don't have to. He's got to You don't have to speak

1:04:41

about the moment and she she

1:04:44

had it.

1:04:44

Now, Greg, when the moment that finish you came over and gave

1:04:46

me a

1:04:47

hug along with a million other people who you're

1:04:49

busy hugging in court, how

1:04:51

are you feeling? I

1:04:53

feel good. I feel

1:04:54

good. This is the end of

1:04:57

it,

1:04:57

completing it for

1:04:59

seven months. twenty four years, I think he

1:05:01

is non parole. Gotta

1:05:04

be happy

1:05:05

with that. Marilyn?

1:05:07

marilyn Yes.

1:05:08

I feel the same. I feel the same. I think

1:05:10

that the judge has really

1:05:12

fought this through incredibly carefully.

1:05:15

and taken many factors into

1:05:17

it. And I think he's certainly got

1:05:19

it right. Yes. At the last at

1:05:22

last. Lynn

1:05:24

Streener. that's what we

1:05:26

feel. She's free. But we

1:05:27

have to do in the house finder --

1:05:30

Mhmm. -- and that'll be icing on

1:05:32

the cake. You said

1:05:32

last time we spoke to you that you didn't really mind

1:05:35

what sort of sentence he got that

1:05:37

it wasn't about that for you. Mhmm. Do

1:05:39

you still feel like that? feel like

1:05:42

Yeah.

1:05:42

But our main thing was then was

1:05:44

that

1:05:44

said she didn't didn't leave the house, she didn't

1:05:46

leave the girls, and that was on my name.

1:05:49

Yes.

1:05:49

The judge found today that she was murdered in

1:05:51

her own home. Mhmm. That was the first time

1:05:53

that's been definitively said.

1:05:56

Yes. Yep. some pretty

1:05:58

powerful words there today.

1:06:00

There are a lot of words, so it'd be

1:06:02

interesting to go back over it again and and really

1:06:04

hear it or perhaps read it. too absorb it.

1:06:07

It was

1:06:08

another verdict day in

1:06:09

some ways because he kept

1:06:11

going from one stream to the

1:06:13

other, and we weren't really sure even though

1:06:16

the number of years was up to him,

1:06:18

we had no idea where that was going. But

1:06:20

we weren't sure what he was

1:06:22

going to take into account and what he wasn't. Well, you said earlier

1:06:24

that you

1:06:24

were observing Christopher Dawson when

1:06:27

the verdict was being issued

1:06:30

and he showed zero

1:06:32

emotion. Were you surprised

1:06:34

by that or not?

1:06:36

Given that

1:06:36

we've watched him during the entire trial,

1:06:39

Not surprised, but not at all. I think he will

1:06:42

not take ownership. I don't think he

1:06:44

believes he's done anything wrong. He'll be

1:06:46

looking to blame someone else or

1:06:48

something else. He

1:06:50

seems to have this incredible way of

1:06:52

just zoning out. zoning out

1:06:54

there. Zones out

1:06:55

unless that's something that's going to benefit him

1:06:57

when he wants

1:06:58

speak to his counsel, you know, he can become very animated. His

1:07:01

blood pressure

1:07:01

was fairly high when he came in with court.

1:07:03

He's quite red. I

1:07:06

mean, you've been around this man from

1:07:08

substantial portion of your lives. Mhmm. And now

1:07:11

you've probably seen him for the

1:07:13

last time in person. There's

1:07:15

a certain

1:07:16

satisfaction in that. Yeah.

1:07:18

We need to close that door completely now,

1:07:20

and the judge has helped us

1:07:22

be able to do that. Renee, last Christmas, all this uncertainty

1:07:24

was hanging over you. You were about

1:07:26

to go into the trial process.

1:07:30

before we thought we were. We actually didn't know if the trial was gonna happen because he

1:07:32

was doing everything to try and get it stock.

1:07:34

So, yeah, if we weren't even thinking that we would

1:07:36

get to trial, I think it was only

1:07:40

a week

1:07:40

or two before the actual trial started. We were like, okay,

1:07:43

here we go. What's the

1:07:45

plan for this Christmas?

1:07:47

I think we're all due a bit of

1:07:49

a break, so maybe a bit of a

1:07:51

quiet one. No cameras. Mhmm.

1:07:54

Ideally, so we're not invited then. I mean, you

1:07:56

can come. You just can't bring you recording your

1:07:58

equipment. You'll be very

1:07:59

welcome. Good morning.

1:08:02

microphones aren't connected.

1:08:05

you'll be heading out shortly into the

1:08:07

fourth court of the court, and there'll be a pack

1:08:09

of media there -- Mhmm. -- hopefully for your

1:08:12

sake the last time. I think

1:08:13

the public deserves to hear from us

1:08:16

because they have supported us

1:08:18

incredibly through these people we've

1:08:21

never known. And there were people in

1:08:24

court there today that just wanted to be

1:08:26

there and support asked to support Lynne.

1:08:28

So we

1:08:30

will do this now. And might to

1:08:33

this

1:08:36

and But with

1:08:37

very full hearts, we are so grateful

1:08:40

for all

1:08:43

that public

1:08:44

support the new

1:08:46

friends we've made for you guys, especially. And Hadley and Dave,

1:08:48

you guys have helped

1:08:51

us enormously through this.

1:08:53

you've explained

1:08:56

things to us, you've comforted us, you've

1:08:58

had those beautiful smiles, therefore, us each

1:09:00

time, and

1:09:01

that's made a huge

1:09:03

amount. So thank you. The

1:09:04

commander of the homicide squad

1:09:06

is here today? Yes. How do you feel about that? That's good. article

1:09:09

that Looking

1:09:10

after his

1:09:12

men. Yeah.

1:09:12

Can I answer that? Yeah. I'm I'm hoping

1:09:15

the fact that they were here will be

1:09:17

at least some words

1:09:19

that about perhaps the

1:09:22

failure of anything being done in the early days that even this class does

1:09:27

the missing person. and not really

1:09:29

given credit and the family weren't given credit for trying to find her in

1:09:31

those early days. So

1:09:35

I'm hoping something along those lines will

1:09:38

come along, and I also hope that in the future, as Greg

1:09:40

will say, we

1:09:43

need the police and the

1:09:45

media to work collaboratively because that's why we're here. That's why we've

1:09:48

got where

1:09:52

we are. Do the police owe

1:09:54

Lynn an apology? Lynn and the family,

1:09:55

I think, certainly, just for

1:09:57

those early days, and

1:09:59

I think the previous

1:10:02

commissioner of police did do that. Yeah. Yeah. He's certainly took ownership and

1:10:04

and got things moving. And without

1:10:06

that without been for him

1:10:11

influenced and encouragement. I don't again,

1:10:13

that was a major major factor in

1:10:15

getting us to get to trial

1:10:17

as well. Okay. We'll

1:10:18

let you go. Thanks,

1:10:21

guys. As they went

1:10:22

downstairs

1:10:23

to face the

1:10:25

media, I grabbed Damian Lin, the cop who

1:10:27

spent so long trying to find out what happened to Lin. Damian, what did

1:10:29

you think of that twenty

1:10:31

four year sentence?

1:10:32

It's

1:10:35

a tough sentence for him, Claire, and at the end of the latter

1:10:37

day, he won't see his twenty four years out

1:10:39

due to his

1:10:42

age and some of the physical issues he has. It was a stiff sentence,

1:10:44

aggravation as well in relation to the

1:10:46

domestic side of with their relationship.

1:10:48

But today, it was a

1:10:50

good sentence. I thought, yes. Do

1:10:53

you think in nineteen eighty two, given that this was

1:10:55

a domestic murder, he would have got such harsh sentence? I

1:10:58

look, I thought sentence today reflected on that era today. And

1:11:01

I was around many years ago,

1:11:03

and I saw similar sentences.

1:11:06

If Chris Dorsen is to live out his whole twenty four

1:11:08

years. He'd be close to a hundred.

1:11:10

So I don't know. Secretary Dorsen's

1:11:13

seen a lot of day. you must have heard

1:11:15

a lot of prisoners put to the court that they're going to

1:11:17

do it tough in jail, that jail is going to be

1:11:19

particularly tough for them for

1:11:21

one reason or another. Do you have any sympathy for

1:11:23

that? No. And there's nothing justice scene Harris and described that he

1:11:25

was the author of his own mistakes. So,

1:11:27

no, I don't. Does it feel like

1:11:30

the end of a chapter for you

1:11:32

today? today closes my chapter. It

1:11:34

doesn't close the closer for Lynn, or could be needed to know where she is. But in front

1:11:36

of my policing career,

1:11:39

today closes at yes. You

1:11:42

can retine it. Mark and Mark can

1:11:44

retine it. You can really retine it. Thank you

1:11:46

very much. Thank you, Claire.

1:11:47

Greg and Marilyn

1:11:48

Sims with Lynne's

1:11:51

niece Renee and nephew David and family supporters in pink. Face

1:11:53

the media on

1:11:56

the cordsteps.

1:11:58

This made

1:11:59

the last

1:12:02

time, isn't

1:12:04

it

1:12:07

great? freaking out a few things I hope you can bear with us. But

1:12:09

today marks the end of a

1:12:11

very long, painful, challenging

1:12:14

journey many. But last we have justice for

1:12:17

Lynn, and that was our main

1:12:19

name. For our family, Lynn will

1:12:21

always prove you remember as a

1:12:23

as a happy, gentle, generous, I'm

1:12:25

loving daughter, sister, mother, niece, art,

1:12:27

and friend. Chris Dawson

1:12:32

discarded her, The

1:12:34

Dawson's disregarded her. From tonight on, we would like her

1:12:36

to be known and

1:12:39

remembered as Lannett Joy sins.

1:12:44

No sentence is long enough for taking

1:12:46

someone's life. We respect and

1:12:48

thank judge Harrison for his

1:12:51

sentence. and hope Chris Dawson lives a long life in

1:12:53

order to serve that

1:12:55

sadness. Today is in

1:12:58

recognition of work so many

1:13:01

people have done to get the resolution we needed.

1:13:03

We want to pay special tribute to

1:13:05

the family and friends

1:13:08

who worked in an unofficial

1:13:10

capacity over the last almost forty one years

1:13:15

by being Helen and my mother, my sister Pat, my brother Phil,

1:13:17

all the aunts and uncles and cousins

1:13:19

and Lynn's friends. The

1:13:22

system was against us, will

1:13:26

be got there in the

1:13:28

end. Once again, a huge but inadequate, thank

1:13:30

you to all the contributing police judge Harrison

1:13:35

the incredible barresters and solicitors from the

1:13:38

DPP, the media, the

1:13:40

support, and especially to

1:13:43

Hadley Thomas. team the Australian and also Ben Fordham.

1:13:45

The hope is that the media

1:13:47

and police will work

1:13:50

collaboratively in future cases. where

1:13:54

you really didn't believe this day would ever come. What we need now is to find Lynn

1:13:57

and put it

1:13:59

a rest It's our

1:14:02

time to begin living our lives without having this hanging over

1:14:04

their lives our

1:14:08

Chris Dawson has had forty years

1:14:10

of freedom. Now it's our turn. Thank you.

1:14:12

That is such a

1:14:15

big deal to actually truly

1:14:17

find the net. How do you feel about that? How do you I mean,

1:14:19

you're so close to possibly getting that

1:14:22

in so far away. I

1:14:25

don't think he'll ever give it up. He's done for

1:14:27

all his eighteen years. If

1:14:30

he were ninety two,

1:14:32

If he lives that long,

1:14:34

if I don't think he will give out where she is.

1:14:37

Thank

1:14:40

you. Thank you,

1:14:42

everybody. We appreciate your time for us. Thank you. This is Sheila Gresh Life.

1:14:44

Thank you. Thank

1:14:47

you very

1:14:48

much.

1:14:50

The

1:14:51

imposing figure of homicide boss,

1:14:53

Danny Doherty, was there too,

1:14:55

on the steps with Greg

1:14:57

and Marilyn. Just

1:14:58

want to

1:15:00

say a few words on behalf of yourself

1:15:02

as police force. Just text to lieutenant Danny Daugherty

1:15:04

from homicide squad. And this is saying

1:15:06

in relation to justice is that the wheels of

1:15:08

justice turned slowly, but they

1:15:11

grind extremely fine. And

1:15:14

after four decades, since Lynn Dawson went missing. Today,

1:15:16

Chris Dawson was sentenced for

1:15:18

the murder. Danny, no direct

1:15:20

witnesses, no forensics, and the

1:15:23

passage of time forties. still

1:15:25

to get a conviction. This is one of the great days for investigators. It's a great day for investigators,

1:15:27

but it's also been and it's been said

1:15:30

a number of times, it's been a team

1:15:32

effort. both

1:15:34

from the previous investigators and the current investigators,

1:15:37

but the family and the friends of Mendoza

1:15:39

never gave up up. And they've been

1:15:41

the driving force behind this So today's

1:15:43

sentence reflects the hard work

1:15:45

and the obstacles, but also

1:15:48

ultimately has given some comfort

1:15:50

for the family. Obviously, it's unfinished

1:15:52

business. Whilst the chapter is closing the

1:15:54

book still open, the case is still open because we still haven't found him.

1:15:58

And I'm sure while the family rightly so want to get on

1:15:59

with their lives, we will keep this

1:16:02

case open in case we do get

1:16:04

information on the hope that we

1:16:06

do get information to be able to

1:16:08

provide some dignity

1:16:09

to lend and let the family blow the rest. Donnie, the judge

1:16:11

ruled that the next

1:16:14

item you want to time.

1:16:16

Would you consider it exactly not so bad? Well, again,

1:16:18

we've just had the sentence to stand it down, which

1:16:22

we accept in respect and

1:16:24

we're happy with that sentence. We'll let

1:16:26

the family also absorb that what's happened today. And

1:16:31

we'll obviously, sets any other information and evidence that comes to

1:16:33

hand. No. Thank you. Thank

1:16:34

you. Appreciate it though. It's supposed

1:16:37

to go soft.

1:16:39

Anything with that? Defense

1:16:41

lawyer, Greg Walsh, spoke to the media too, as Peter

1:16:43

Dawson stood off to the side, sunglasses

1:16:47

on saying nothing.

1:16:50

All I would

1:16:52

like to say is

1:16:54

that he's gonna deliver

1:16:58

the very reason, judgment in respect

1:17:00

of the sentence. And, of course,

1:17:02

ladies and gentlemen, no winners, you

1:17:05

know, to take the case line

1:17:07

from And that's family that lost

1:17:09

their daughter and sister

1:17:12

with mother. and

1:17:15

the extent payments also suffered as

1:17:17

as the community. So

1:17:19

mister Wilson has been sent

1:17:21

We now

1:17:22

we'll still spend one probability of that in the

1:17:25

western side of

1:17:28

the car. and we'll

1:17:30

not have the relationship, but the otherwise, we'll have had the design till

1:17:36

and surgeons,

1:17:38

that's why I think that extended

1:17:40

them. As he's on it, found it's a matter

1:17:42

of a man's severity in the sense of

1:17:47

serious. That's what I really mean. The murder of

1:17:50

a loving and caring

1:17:53

mother and

1:17:56

wife is clearly extremely

1:17:58

serious. Right. And his honor has recognized that. And in in

1:18:00

particular, not only

1:18:03

the losses are alive, but

1:18:06

the impact of that loss on the

1:18:09

direct relatives and the white

1:18:11

man look. So it's a

1:18:13

very serious matter. The reality is he

1:18:16

knows that he spent in all

1:18:18

probability the rest of his stays

1:18:21

in jail unless he is

1:18:23

successful been respectful of his appeal. And what do mister

1:18:25

Thornton say to you? Yeah.

1:18:27

It's Gordon's plea

1:18:31

to reveal whereabouts her mother's remarks. Say that

1:18:33

on this. That my wish is because I didn't know.

1:18:36

So that that is

1:18:38

his

1:18:38

decision. It's on a

1:18:40

remunerated. what's

1:18:41

your take on that's dangerous enemy. Yes.

1:18:43

In my experience, Edward. We would

1:18:45

give me his okay.

1:18:48

Fine.

1:18:50

the this type

1:18:51

of thing thing, murdered a child. And others

1:18:53

have been very

1:18:54

severe of injury. There's always

1:18:56

a risk gels

1:18:59

of dangerous places. So

1:19:00

with his profile and the fact

1:19:02

that he is aged, and he is

1:19:04

not

1:19:04

in good health. He's not serious

1:19:07

problems and we expect that I

1:19:10

think on Sacramento, he would find a very difficult defendant. So, prisoners with neither authority

1:19:12

like him,

1:19:14

a general stood over,

1:19:17

but that's

1:19:18

really

1:19:18

all right. So it's always a risk and churn. So hopefully, that's necessarily restricted

1:19:24

your queries. So thank you very

1:19:26

much. You too. Okay. Thanks a lot.

1:19:31

Joining us at court was our

1:19:33

reporter, Leah Mendez. Listeners might remember

1:19:35

he's the one who got

1:19:37

a whopping parking fine for

1:19:39

leaving his motorbike parked in

1:19:41

the city on verdict day when Lam followed the doorsons onto

1:19:43

a tram. Lam was tasked with getting

1:19:46

a reaction from Peter Dawson

1:19:50

He caught up with him at Windy Train Station

1:19:52

in Sydney CBD in a

1:19:54

video which is available at

1:19:57

the australian dot com dot au.

1:19:59

We see Peter sunglasses

1:19:59

on striding purposefully through

1:20:02

the underground

1:20:02

station as Lam pepers

1:20:05

in with questions. What's your reactions

1:20:07

to Chris' sentencing? Twenty four

1:20:09

years. What do you think

1:20:12

are the chances that your

1:20:14

brother will be successful on an

1:20:16

appeal? Peter. Is there anything you'd like

1:20:18

to say to Lynn's family? Is there

1:20:20

anything at all that you

1:20:22

have to say to her daughters?

1:20:24

Do you accept and respect the guilty verdict that was given

1:20:26

or do you still maintain that your brother's innocent? How does

1:20:29

it make brother his innocent? That's

1:20:31

all I'll say to you? We'll

1:20:35

be back

1:20:35

after a

1:20:40

short break. The

1:20:45

teacher's trial is made possible by

1:20:46

subscribers to the Australian and

1:20:49

by our principal

1:20:51

sponsor Harvey Norman.

1:20:53

For over five years, Harvey

1:20:55

Norman has been a key partner in the investigative podcast. The

1:20:59

Australians comprehensive coverage

1:21:00

of

1:21:02

the trial now is only made possible with the

1:21:05

support of our subscribers and our

1:21:07

partnership with Harvey Norman.

1:21:09

Welcome

1:21:19

back. As the team

1:21:20

prepared our stories for our

1:21:22

website and the newspaper, we took

1:21:24

a moment to discuss

1:21:27

what we just witnessed. Joining

1:21:29

me are Hadley Thomas, David Murray,

1:21:31

and first up, Matt

1:21:31

Condon.

1:21:34

Well, after seven long

1:21:37

months of this epic saga. The sentencing hearing was due at

1:21:39

midday in court thirty in May of the Supreme Court. And

1:21:43

there was undoubtedly a tangible

1:21:46

difference I felt to the feeling in the court. This time around, the public gallery was

1:21:52

absolutely packed by about quarter past eleven, so

1:21:54

still a lengthy time from the appearance of justice Ian Harrison. There was

1:21:56

a lot of banter. It felt

1:21:58

to me like people

1:21:59

were impatient there

1:22:02

was some Arjibajji over seating with

1:22:05

some of the members of the public

1:22:07

and the court officials, which I'd never seen

1:22:09

at all once in the entire

1:22:11

Dawson case. And I felt in the end

1:22:13

that this was the day

1:22:15

for punishment. I think

1:22:18

that contributed to why

1:22:20

people where the temperatures had raised a little

1:22:22

bit I felt in the room. This was the day that this man was punished for

1:22:24

his actions. And

1:22:27

I think that set the tone for

1:22:29

what was in the end a very brief court session, but it felt

1:22:32

like no other in my opinion.

1:22:34

Claire, you and I was sitting in

1:22:36

the second row

1:22:38

of the public gallery once by of way back

1:22:44

to school. They were

1:22:46

sharing photographs of Lynn when she was a school girl on their phones as they waited for the proceedings

1:22:49

to begin.

1:22:52

But when proceedings actually did

1:22:54

begin with the emergence of justice Harrison. There was no holding back in

1:22:56

terms of comments

1:22:59

from the public gallery when

1:23:01

justice Harrison said mister Dawson was suffering various ailments and health complaints. Some

1:23:03

of the women in

1:23:06

the audience just said

1:23:08

good. or too bad

1:23:10

or there was a there was just that a little aggressive sheen to the moment

1:23:13

where they just

1:23:16

wanted to see this man get

1:23:18

his just desserts. That's how how it felt. He came in, sat down wearing his prison

1:23:21

greens, and

1:23:24

then chatted briefly to his brother Peter

1:23:26

who was the only member of the Dawson family, certainly who I saw, who was sitting at the

1:23:28

bar table with

1:23:31

defense lawyer Greg Walsh. Greg

1:23:33

Walsh had told the journalist down the

1:23:36

bottom that this was his last day representing Christopher Dawson. And,

1:23:38

of course, Craig Ellison was there on the other side. It

1:23:40

felt very

1:23:43

much like team Lin had packed out

1:23:45

the court. That

1:23:47

Greg Walsh

1:23:47

had advised

1:23:49

this would be his last day working on the

1:23:52

case. You've been talking a

1:23:54

bit too, Greg, and he's

1:23:57

given you quite a background around the amount

1:24:00

of work that's gone into this and his commitment

1:24:02

to it. What did you take from all of

1:24:04

that? And can you share a bit more

1:24:06

about what this has meant for him?

1:24:07

I think he's torn. The

1:24:08

on on one hand, he's dedicated

1:24:10

to the law and to fairness.

1:24:13

On the other hand, he based

1:24:15

basically said that he's signing on this now because it's the case is quote

1:24:18

taken a lot out of him. He's sixty

1:24:20

eight years old. None of

1:24:22

us are getting any younger. It's

1:24:24

been an exasperating case. It's gone on

1:24:26

now for four years. It's had almost

1:24:29

every up and down that a

1:24:31

court matter could have. It's

1:24:34

dealt with highly emotional inflammatory

1:24:36

subject matter, which is exhausting

1:24:39

even just hearing it in

1:24:41

the public gallery, let alone

1:24:43

being involved in the machine in whatever way or capacity that might

1:24:45

be. You know, I think you'll go

1:24:47

away perhaps a

1:24:52

little dissatisfied In some sense, I saw him

1:24:54

leave the court after Dawson had left end justice Harrison.

1:24:56

He made straight for the door

1:24:58

while all of team Lin were

1:25:01

crying, hugging, padding each other on the back and giving each other hugs. I heard

1:25:03

someone ask, Greg, as he

1:25:06

left, you did your best.

1:25:10

and he

1:25:10

simply turned as he was

1:25:12

leaving and said, I did my best,

1:25:14

and he left.

1:25:15

Dave and I

1:25:16

have watched the proceedings on

1:25:18

the livestream from Brisbane. What we heard justice Harrison do after giving again another

1:25:21

executive summary of

1:25:24

the case was

1:25:26

build up to what I think many

1:25:29

people will see that is people in

1:25:31

the criminal justice system who

1:25:34

are used to following judges with sentences

1:25:36

that don't always reflect what the

1:25:38

community would like to see, a

1:25:40

sentence that those persons will

1:25:42

regard as being fairly strong. even

1:25:45

harsh. I don't regard it as harsh. I don't think any of us do eighteen

1:25:47

years non parole.

1:25:51

But it means and justice

1:25:54

Harrison reflected this that Chris Dawson is likely to die in jail. It's a sentence

1:25:56

which gives Chris

1:25:59

Dawson very little hope of

1:26:03

seeing freedom. And therefore,

1:26:05

the sentence has to be

1:26:07

seen in that light as one

1:26:10

that is a life sentence, a death sentence, just

1:26:12

as Harrison's description of why he

1:26:14

was going that way was

1:26:17

I think really

1:26:19

measured and and turned on a

1:26:21

number of factors, the fact that Chris Dawson had

1:26:24

intended to kill in

1:26:26

for several days. It wasn't

1:26:29

a spontaneous event born out of passion, a

1:26:31

terrible cost to Linda Dawson's family.

1:26:34

I'm talking about her

1:26:36

siblings, Greg

1:26:39

Sims, Pat Jenkins, Phil Sims,

1:26:41

and their parents, Helena

1:26:43

and Lynn Sims. And

1:26:45

most of all, the

1:26:47

cost to his own daughters, one whom we won't name, the

1:26:49

other one, Chanel, who gave such

1:26:51

a powerful rebuke

1:26:55

of her father, just weeks ago

1:26:57

in the pre sentencing, a rebuke that must have stunned her father

1:26:59

with its severity. The

1:27:03

other interesting point that justice Harrison made related

1:27:06

to the publicity, Chris

1:27:08

Dawson, in submissions

1:27:11

by Greg Walsh, really wanted to have

1:27:13

a bit of a discount because he had been subjected to

1:27:15

such tough publicity, particularly in

1:27:19

Teacher's and this publicity

1:27:22

had even dogged him in jail. He was according to the lawyers being called

1:27:27

in jail just seems such a

1:27:29

trivial problem. He should be

1:27:31

called wife killer. The publicity

1:27:33

was a function of what

1:27:36

he did. and

1:27:38

a function of the fact that

1:27:40

for many years, journalists, members of

1:27:42

the public, Lynn's family, Lynn's friends,

1:27:45

we're being given short shrift

1:27:47

by criminal We're so let down

1:27:52

by prosecutors by

1:27:54

police. Therefore, the publicity got stronger and more amplified.

1:27:56

To pick up

1:27:59

on a point, you mentioned,

1:28:01

Hadley, I think it was a sentence that was at the upper range of what justice Harrison

1:28:03

could have given. And I've

1:28:06

been looking at some recent

1:28:09

sentences. These involve cases that were historical matters. So murders

1:28:11

going back some years that

1:28:14

then reached court decades later.

1:28:19

And in those cases, one of them was a horrific murder of

1:28:21

a young woman just twenty one years old,

1:28:23

a mother of

1:28:26

one, who was murdered in a home and tied

1:28:28

up by a sexual predator. And

1:28:30

in that case, her killer was

1:28:32

sentenced to twenty one years' imprisonment to

1:28:34

serve fifteen years and nine months. That's the

1:28:36

case of Natalie Henderson. So

1:28:39

coming into this sentencing, I

1:28:41

was thinking that it would be

1:28:43

around that range, but of course, the

1:28:45

judge has a wide discretion and he could go either way. One thing that I

1:28:47

found really interesting was he

1:28:51

very much focused on the domestic violence

1:28:53

element of this crime of a

1:28:56

woman, a mother of two little

1:28:58

girls being murdered in her own

1:29:00

home. by her

1:29:02

husband. And although he had to apply the principles that existed at

1:29:04

the time of the murder, he

1:29:07

was also looking at this in

1:29:11

the present day in condemning this act of violence against a

1:29:14

woman, and that was reflected, I

1:29:16

think, adequately and

1:29:18

very well in his

1:29:20

sentence. clear I remember you saying that

1:29:22

if the sentence were leaning and you'd be jumping up and down and protesting very

1:29:24

strongly, how did you feel

1:29:26

as it was being delivered? I

1:29:31

was concerned that the judge

1:29:33

was going to impose a more lenient

1:29:35

sentence. So I was really fearful

1:29:37

about that. for two reasons. One

1:29:39

was felt judge dismissed some of

1:29:42

the evidence about domestic

1:29:44

violence that

1:29:46

had been inflicted on Lynn. In my

1:29:49

view, he discounted the evidence of

1:29:51

women who were close to

1:29:53

Lynn about bruising on her body

1:29:55

and accepted the evidence of people who were a little bit more removed,

1:29:57

but who happened to be male. I'm

1:29:59

not

1:29:59

accusing the judge

1:30:02

of being a sexist, but I was troubled by the fact that

1:30:04

he didn't accept the evidence about

1:30:06

bruising on Lynn's body. And I

1:30:09

was also concerned that during the sentencing submissions,

1:30:11

the judge mentioned his own sentencing

1:30:14

of Harriet Rand, who, of

1:30:16

course, is the

1:30:18

daughter of the former premier Neville ran

1:30:20

in New South Wales. In

1:30:22

that case, justice Harrison gave

1:30:25

Harriet ran a discount on

1:30:27

her sentence. for involvement in violent crime because she

1:30:29

had been the subject of media

1:30:31

attention. So I was pleasantly

1:30:34

surprised and really relieved when

1:30:36

that twenty four year sentence

1:30:38

came down?

1:30:39

I think a lot of people would have been very upset if the sentence

1:30:44

hadn't been reasonable if it hadn't

1:30:46

reflected the horrible nature of this crime. Although it happened forty years ago,

1:30:51

This was a loving and devoted mother. His life

1:30:53

was stolen from her. This was

1:30:55

two young girls who

1:30:57

were robbed of their mother. and it just had to be

1:30:59

a serious sentence. I think everything had

1:31:02

pointed to it being an appropriate

1:31:04

sentence of more

1:31:07

than twenty years. which effectively is a

1:31:09

life sentence for Chris Dawson at his age of seventy four. The

1:31:12

judge really couldn't go

1:31:14

too far away from that

1:31:17

by his own findings, which was

1:31:19

that this was a planned killing. It was

1:31:22

deliberate. It was intended as the judge said

1:31:24

quite cynical

1:31:27

and selfish. He went

1:31:29

through Chris Dawson's various health

1:31:31

issues. The fact that Dawson

1:31:33

has what is described

1:31:35

as ongoing worsening brain condition as a

1:31:37

result of his football in Korea.

1:31:40

He has

1:31:42

fractured a hip. he has had other fractures

1:31:44

and falls. And according

1:31:47

to Greg Wall, she

1:31:49

couldn't remember the name of

1:31:51