0:05

When a

0:05

black woman walks up to the

0:08

desk in labor, what preconceived

0:10

notions do you have

0:19

about

0:28

her? I didn't even know we had a hair shard.

0:39

I had never felt more separated from

0:41

black culture. And going

0:43

to a rodeo seemed like the furthest thing from working

0:45

at a computer that I could think of. And

0:48

so I went home and I bought my plane ticket

0:51

and I just sat there for the next few months anticipating

0:54

what this could possibly be like.

0:56

In my head it was like Soul Train,

0:59

but everybody was on a horse.

1:03

Hey Leela. Hey

1:09

Hana. Ooh,

1:12

what a rodeo? Yes,

1:15

but this isn't just any rodeo. Okay,

1:17

I know a little bit about rodeos. I

1:20

used to go to rodeos when I lived in Houston

1:22

when I was a little girl. Yeehaw.

1:25

Yeehaw. Me and my dad

1:27

and my brothers, we'd all wear our

1:29

jeans. My brothers had these cowboy

1:32

hats. But

1:34

Leela, this rodeo sounds kind

1:36

of different. Did he say Soul

1:39

Train? He did because

1:42

this is the black rodeo. Black

1:44

cowboys. A black

1:47

rodeo. Mm-hmm. Okay,

1:49

okay. Now that is definitely different than the ones

1:51

I went to. Usually, I mean,

1:54

there wasn't another black person

1:56

in sight at the ones I went

1:58

to.

1:58

Well, today we're

2:01

going to hear the story

2:03

of Ivan. Ivan, the person

2:05

we just heard now, right? That's right. Ivan's

2:07

story is part of the Moth

2:10

Storytelling Series. All right,

2:13

welcome the Moth. And we

2:15

want to welcome Suzanne Rust

2:17

who curates the Moth Series.

2:20

Hey, Suzanne. Hey,

2:22

Leela. Hey, Hana. How are you? We

2:24

are good. For the five people who don't

2:27

yet know about the Moth, tell us more

2:29

about the Moth.

2:29

Of course. Well,

2:32

the Moth is where people tell their true personal

2:34

stories told without notes in

2:36

front of a live audience. It'll make you laugh

2:39

and cry and get into all kinds

2:40

of feelings. Okay, all

2:42

right. So Suzanne, what is going

2:45

on with Ivan? Well, Ivan was

2:47

feeling a lot. He was feeling out of place

2:49

living in Portland, Oregon and, you know, well, let

2:51

him tell it. Ooh, I'm all

2:54

ears. Giddy up.

2:59

Hey, Stoop fam, a quick favor.

3:01

We are conducting an audience survey.

3:04

We want to know what you think about the Stoop.

3:06

And we'd be really grateful if you could just take

3:09

a few minutes to answer the survey. You

3:11

can find it at survey.prx.org

3:14

slash stoop. That's survey.prx.org

3:19

slash stoop. And thanks.

3:29

I was born and raised in Kansas City, Kansas.

3:32

Go Chiefs. The

3:35

neighborhood that I grew up in had many sides.

3:38

It was urban

3:40

and country at the same time.

3:42

It was beautiful. And sometimes

3:44

it could be terrifying. My

3:47

sister and I would run around in a five acre

3:49

field behind our house. All summer long

3:51

we would play and we would eat

3:53

blackberries until our fingers were sticky.

3:56

And then we'd run home through the thistle, pick

3:58

thorns out of our socks on the front. porch. And

4:01

then it's why like the lightning bugs would come out and

4:04

we'd scoop them up in mason jars, throw

4:06

some leaves in there, screw the lid

4:08

on tight, poke holes in the top so they

4:10

could breathe.

4:12

At night, some nights gunshots

4:15

would ring out on the block and

4:17

my sister and I would lay on the floor and look up

4:20

as the police helicopters lit up the street

4:22

looking for suspects. There

4:24

were a lot of gangs in the neighborhood and they would

4:26

walk around with pit bulls

4:28

and whenever they ran across the rival

4:30

gang member, they would fight their dogs. I

4:33

wasn't in a gang. I was a nerd and a

4:36

church kid. But when I ran across

4:38

this one guy, he would sick his dog on

4:40

me and

4:41

I would go running and all the backs

4:43

of my pants got eaten up and I got really fast.

4:48

My mom worked two or three jobs

4:50

to keep us fed and

4:53

we were latchkey kids and we determined

4:55

it was unsafe to go outside. So

4:57

we quit going out in that field and playing.

5:00

As I got closer to the end of high school,

5:03

my prospects were kind of slim. I could go

5:06

be a delivery truck driver. I

5:08

could be a pastor at my uncle's church or

5:11

I could go work at the assembly line at the Ford plant.

5:13

I didn't really want to do any

5:15

of those things. I wanted to be a photographer.

5:18

And so I decided I was going to figure

5:20

out a way out of Kansas.

5:22

I never felt like I fit in there and

5:24

I knew somewhere there was a community where I belonged.

5:28

So I saved up $500 that summer

5:31

and I just upped and moved to New York City and

5:34

that money was gone in a week. And

5:38

I just like worked any job that I could get.

5:40

I didn't know anybody. So I like handed

5:42

out flyers. I blew

5:44

up balloons. I played guitar

5:47

in the park. Anything I could do for

5:49

money until some way through

5:51

a bunch of luck.

5:52

I got a job as a photographer and a

5:55

junior designer at an ad agency.

5:58

I didn't know anything that anybody

5:59

was talking about, they would say

6:02

ROI, SEO,

6:04

KPIs, and I would just nod my head

6:06

and Google what they had said. And

6:09

I did that long enough that I actually started to get pretty

6:11

good at my job, and I got promoted.

6:14

I went from junior designer to designer.

6:17

And I went from designer to senior designer,

6:20

and from senior designer to art director. Every

6:24

time that I got promoted, I saw fewer

6:26

and fewer black people around, until

6:28

I got a job as a creative director, I moved

6:31

to Portland, Oregon, and I hardly ever

6:33

saw black people at all.

6:35

I was in this sea of white men at work,

6:38

and I was never a culture fit. I

6:40

understood their culture, but they had no

6:43

clue who Luther Vandross was. Or

6:45

they had never stayed up till 2 a.m.

6:48

watching Showtime at the Apollo. They

6:50

had no idea why I might be afraid of dogs.

6:53

This led to a case of imposter

6:55

syndrome. I felt like I didn't belong

6:57

in the rooms that I was in, that I was

7:00

going to be found out, thrown out in the

7:02

street,

7:03

forced to move back to Kansas.

7:06

One day I was at a party. I

7:08

didn't know anybody there except for the person whose birthday

7:10

it was, and so I was just

7:13

drinking by myself and sulking

7:15

in the corner.

7:16

Somebody tapped me on the shoulder, and I turned around, and

7:19

there's a tall black man

7:22

with a salt and pepper afro.

7:24

And he introduces himself. He says his name is Charles

7:26

Perry. He says he's a filmmaker.

7:29

I say, oh, I'm a photographer. What are you working on? He

7:31

said, I'm working on a movie about black

7:33

cowboys. I said, what,

7:35

like a Western? He said,

7:37

no, like a documentary. I kind of laughed. I

7:40

was like, oh, this is not enough black cowboys to make a

7:42

whole documentary. I

7:45

knew a thing or two about cowboys. I grew

7:47

up watching Bonanza and Gunsmoke

7:50

and Lonesome Dove reruns. My

7:53

school choir used to sing the national anthem at

7:56

the American Royal Rodeo in Kansas.

7:59

I viewed the calendar.

7:59

to be the archetype of

8:02

American independence and grit.

8:04

But black cowboys, the only

8:06

black cowboys I knew were Sheriff Bart

8:09

in Blazing Saddles and

8:11

Cowboy Curtis on Pee-Wee's Playhouse. So

8:16

we kept talking and

8:17

he said, well, you got to see it

8:19

for yourself, man. Come with me

8:21

to a black rodeo in Oklahoma this summer.

8:24

I said, absolutely. It was exactly

8:27

the opportunity that I had been looking for. Like,

8:30

I had never felt more separated from

8:32

black culture.

8:33

And going to a rodeo seemed like the furthest

8:35

thing from working at a computer that I could think of.

8:38

And so I went home and I bought my plane

8:40

ticket and I just sat there for

8:43

the next few months anticipating what

8:45

this could possibly be like.

8:47

In my head, it was like Soul Train, but

8:50

everybody was on a horse. So August came

8:52

around and I caught my flight to

8:58

Oklahoma City. I drove

9:00

an hour and a half to Okmulgee, parked

9:03

my car, got out and

9:05

got just suffocated by 105 degree heat. It

9:08

was 105 degrees. It was 100% humidity.

9:12

As I was walking through the grass, chickers

9:15

were biting my ankles and there were

9:17

grasshoppers jumping up on my clothes. There

9:19

was just a haze of barbecue smoke over

9:22

the entire lawn. I couldn't breathe.

9:25

And everywhere I looked, there was a white

9:27

horse trailer glistening in the sun.

9:30

And there was R&B music

9:32

and gospel music and hip hop coming out of

9:34

the trailers.

9:35

And everywhere around me, there were black

9:37

cowboys, thousands of them.

9:40

I saw young men riding

9:43

their horses with no shirt, a gold

9:45

chain, basketball shorts and Jordans.

9:48

And they were walking up hitting on women

9:50

and talking trash to the other riders.

9:53

And I saw old men just sitting stoically

9:56

on their horses and they had precise Stetsons

9:59

and trim mustache.

9:59

peachy rings and

10:02

their shirts were so starched you could hear them crunch

10:04

when they move their arms and

10:06

the women bedazzled from head to toe

10:08

bedazzled hats, bedazzled shirts with

10:10

fringe, bedazzled jeans and

10:13

they had long braids and acrylic nails

10:16

and they were settling down these muscular quarter

10:18

horses and they were gonna be riding 40

10:20

miles per hour in the barrel race later

10:23

that afternoon like I couldn't

10:25

fit in any less I was wearing khakis and

10:28

wingtips

10:29

but I felt so

10:32

welcomed by this group of people everybody

10:35

was so eager to share a smile

10:38

let me take their photo and share

10:40

their story

10:42

I met a man named Robert Kriv Robert

10:44

had this leather raisin

10:47

of a face and he had

10:49

this beautiful horse named summertime he

10:51

pulled on her reins and she put her

10:53

legs down on the ground like she was bowing it

10:55

was so elegant

10:57

and he shook my hand he had these 12

10:59

grit sandpaper

11:02

hands mine almost started to bleed because

11:04

I've got dragonfly wings for hands from

11:06

working in in tech for so long and

11:10

he offered me a bottle of water which I desperately needed

11:13

at this point because I'm like I'm like soaking wet he's

11:16

not a bead of sweat on his face in fact nobody

11:18

else at the rodeo was sweating at all and

11:20

I look like I had just gotten baptized so

11:25

he was wearing a Kansas City hat so I said where you from

11:27

he said I'm

11:27

from Kansas City Kansas I said I'm

11:29

from Kansas City Kansas where about he

11:32

said oh I live just off of 58th in

11:34

Georgia I grew

11:36

up off of 57th in Georgia

11:39

it turns out that he lived on the other side

11:42

of the five acre field

11:44

where from where I grew up I

11:47

never saw a horse back there I never

11:49

met Robert Criff but

11:52

he knew my grandma he knew

11:54

my pastor we went

11:56

to the same high school in

11:58

fact he told me to have for the

13:59

and her hair blowing back, and

14:02

her crown is glistening in the stadium lights.

14:05

And she looks like actual royalty. I love

14:08

all of these photos. Whenever

14:10

I'm feeling separated from the culture, I just open

14:12

them up and look through them, and I'm immediately

14:14

taken back to Okmulgee.

14:17

And I go back every year. I've

14:19

taken my family with me. I've been

14:21

to dozens of black rodeos around the country.

14:25

My work has been featured in museums. It's

14:28

been featured in magazines and published in

14:30

a book. And I've seen the figure

14:32

of the black cowboy elevated

14:34

in film and television,

14:36

and it's become a part of a narrative about identities

14:39

in the West.

14:40

But I do this so that my

14:43

kids, when they draw a picture of a cowboy,

14:45

they'll color it in with a brown face.

14:48

And I do it so that I'll never again forget

14:50

that this is a part of who I am as a black

14:53

man in America. Thank you. Thank

14:56

you. Suzanne,

15:03

I always wonder how

15:05

you find the people who are on

15:07

the moth. So tell us how you found

15:10

Ivan.

15:11

Yeah, Ivan, oh my God. So I was looking for

15:13

black cowboys, and I found this

15:15

gentleman, Ivan, who is an incredible

15:18

photojournalist, and he'd been taking these photographs

15:20

of black cowboys. And I was like, oh, I bet he

15:22

knows some cowboys in this state. And

15:25

talking to him, coming to find out that he lives

15:27

in Portland, and he loves

15:30

the moth. And we were going

15:32

to Portland, I said, hey, do you want to tell

15:34

a story? So that's how we got

15:36

in touch with Ivan, but you gotta check out, he has

15:38

eight seconds as his Instagram

15:40

and his website,

15:41

and he just takes these incredible

15:43

photographs of black cowboys and just knows

15:45

all the history. It was just so important

15:47

for me to have this story, because with

15:50

Hollywood, we have this false narrative that all

15:52

the cowboys were white. And

15:55

if you look back during- Like the ones I saw

15:57

in Houston. Yep, exactly, you would never

15:59

know.

15:59

And during this times of slavery,

16:02

there were the cow hands who are white and the cow boys

16:05

who are black. And we did all of that work. And

16:07

so that once we were free,

16:09

it was one of the livelihoods that a black man could

16:12

take on. We knew how to do this stuff and wrangle. And

16:14

they're like the famous cowboys like Nat

16:16

Love and they're just these

16:18

great guys with these amazing legacies. So Bill

16:20

Pickett was the other one I wanted to call to mind. So

16:23

it's just worth

16:25

the Google. And I love these stories because

16:27

they reawaken our interest in history. And like,

16:29

you know, here we are three intelligent women who

16:31

have limited knowledge of black

16:33

cowboys. And so that's

16:34

why stories are important and specifically

16:37

why this story is so important to me. And

16:40

one thing that really struck me was this idea

16:43

of this cowboy that

16:45

he met was living so close to

16:47

him. Yes. In his neighborhood

16:49

on the other side of this field. And

16:52

he never knew about him or this

16:54

whole scene throughout his life. And

16:57

this idea of

16:58

not knowing what's happening in your own

17:00

area or in your own neighborhood

17:03

and being so lonely because of that. I

17:06

mean, Portland's a beautiful place, right?

17:08

But you are often the

17:10

only black person in many of the spaces,

17:13

right? I mean, a lot of people from Portland

17:15

tell me that. And so it makes me

17:17

think of too, what happens to neighborhoods

17:21

that don't have that feel where you get to know

17:23

your neighbors. Where'd you grow up, Suzanne?

17:25

I grew up in New York City. So I didn't

17:28

quite feel that, but I grew up in neighborhoods

17:30

where there weren't tons of us. So

17:32

I can relate to it in some ways. And

17:35

I did have a few people around me and that really

17:37

supported me. I think it's just so important.

17:40

It's just like you cold together all of your histories

17:42

and all of your feelings. And even though we all have different

17:44

experiences, certainly for someone like

17:47

Ivan, what a fun discovery. It's

17:49

like, I'm dying to go to a black rodeo. I'm like,

17:52

please, please someone bring it to New

17:54

York City because I will be there with rhinestones

17:56

and a cowboy hat and all kinds

17:58

of madness. Cause when we... We do things, we

18:00

do them with style, so I want to see it.

18:03

I loved that he found this out and that he felt

18:06

like he found his little tribe. Exactly.

18:09

Absolutely. Me too. So special. I

18:11

remember those Houston summers with the rodeos.

18:14

We were hot. Leila,

18:17

you grew up in Las Vegas. You

18:19

know, I'm a desert girl. I grew up in the

18:21

heat. So do you not sweat because you're a

18:23

desert girl? Perspired. I

18:26

perspire. You perspire.

18:28

You glow. Right. I had that glow.

18:32

When I was a kid, my mom actually had a sign

18:34

up for horseback riding lessons. So

18:36

I remember a couple of times a month, me and my sister, we would ride

18:38

these horses at a ranch called

18:41

Silk Purse Ranch. Silk

18:43

Purse. It had a pig with one

18:45

ear on it and it said, you can't make

18:48

a silk purse out of a sow's

18:50

ear. I don't know what that meant. A sow meaning

18:53

a pig. Don't ask me what

18:55

all of that meant, but that's what the sign said on the ranch.

18:57

And anyway, my horse's name was Blue D

18:59

Shadow. Did

19:02

you name the horse? No. It sounds like

19:04

I would have, right? Yes. And then my

19:06

sister rode a horse called Mr. Bull. And

19:09

we would ride in the wind past the tumbleweed,

19:12

past the cacti. We'd run

19:14

through the desert like wild things. It

19:16

was amazing. Rawhide. I

19:20

love that. I took some lessons myself. The

19:22

Upper West Side, there used to be a stable

19:25

called the Claremont Stables. It's closed now.

19:27

I think it was in the West 80s. And my best friend

19:29

and I took our little lessons.

19:32

And they

19:32

put me on, like I'd been there maybe a couple

19:34

of months, and they put me on this one horse. I remember her

19:36

name was Willow. And Willow wasn't having

19:38

a good day. And she reared up on me. And I was

19:40

like, wow, this is, perhaps I

19:43

don't have the cowboy gene. I don't know if I want to

19:45

continue with this. I got a little scared.

19:48

So I've been on too many horses since

19:50

then, but I admire them. But

19:52

it was hot. It was hot out there riding in the

19:54

desert, I tell you. It was hot. Sun beaming.

19:57

It was no joke. OK. With

20:00

that heat and with that sun,

20:04

so what was going on in terms of your skin,

20:07

might I ask? My skin? You

20:09

asking about my skin? Mm-hmm.

20:12

I didn't use any sunscreen or lotion. You

20:15

know what they say, black don't crack. Oh,

20:18

brother, yes, that one, that

20:20

black don't crack. That was

20:22

one of an episode of yours that I couldn't stop

20:24

thinking about from the stoop. It

20:26

was black don't crack. And

20:28

I never heard anyone talk about this

20:31

before, so let's listen a little

20:33

bit.

20:36

And Leela, listening to Dr. Henry,

20:39

she, by the way, is not ashamed to

20:42

say she's had plenty of cosmetic procedures

20:44

on her face, right?

20:46

Right, yeah, she mentioned Botox in her 20s, and

20:49

she's now in her 40s. No shame at all.

20:52

No shame. And so that gets me thinking about

20:54

what we were talking about earlier. Where

20:57

this shame actually comes

21:00

from. Like, yeah,

21:02

there's this pride in

21:04

us having this melanin that protects

21:06

us. But honestly, also the

21:09

shame may be around the fact that cosmetic

21:11

surgery for our parents' generation

21:14

was basically a white person's

21:16

privilege. They didn't have access to

21:18

any of this. Right, and it's interesting because

21:20

earlier, Patia was saying, you

21:23

know, it's this burden that she felt that she

21:25

can't show signs of living, you

21:27

know? I asked

21:29

Dr. Henry what she

21:31

thought about the phrase black don't crack,

21:34

you know, and what this does for black people.

21:37

She said this. I feel the same

21:39

way about black don't crack as I feel about

21:41

a strong black woman, right? Like,

21:43

yes, we can be very strong. And yes,

21:46

we are gifted in many ways that

21:48

we have resiliency, but we also are allowed

21:50

to be human. We're also allowed to be

21:53

fragile and feel and talk. And that's how I feel about

21:55

black don't crack. It creates this expectation

21:57

of affection. But what

21:59

if your black is crack? The world is telling you

22:01

black don't crack, but you're watching your black cracks.

22:03

What do you do? Do you feel ashamed? Do

22:05

you say like, I am genetically inferior

22:08

to all of my, you know, other black

22:10

folks, right? Like these, I mean,

22:12

yes, it's a high five. And

22:14

when you're black does crack, you shouldn't feel ashamed about

22:16

it. You shouldn't feel like you have somehow

22:18

let down your people

22:20

and the ancestors because you're black has cracked.

22:23

And so it's like, it's a

22:25

level of perfection that's inaccurate

22:27

and not sustainable. And while it is a nice

22:29

little tagline to smile at

22:32

and to hold our hands and feel joyous that our melanin

22:34

is protective and

22:37

preventative against aging, it eventually happens

22:39

and we shouldn't feel like we should not use these interventions

22:42

because it's something that we don't do or that we don't

22:44

need.

22:45

So Suzanne, when you heard that, what

22:48

were your thoughts? Wow, so many

22:50

thoughts, you know, from

22:52

the point of view of being a woman and aging

22:55

to being a black woman and aging, because clearly

22:57

that, you know, I do think we tend to age

22:59

pretty well, but you do

23:01

see cracks.

23:02

I mean, you get to a certain point, stuff starts

23:05

to shift and like she said, and

23:07

I'm always torn between

23:09

wanting to just embrace all these things.

23:12

It's like you get to a certain point in your life, why

23:14

do I have to look like I'm 30 when I'm not 30? I

23:16

did 30, I did it really well, so now let's

23:18

do something else. And then just looking

23:21

in the mirror and going, oh, I don't like that. But

23:23

I like what she said. I think that

23:26

we should have permission to do what it is that makes us

23:28

feel better. And I think that's

23:30

the important part, you know, to have that option

23:32

and not feel ashamed if you wanna do it, but

23:35

not feel like you have to do it, you know? And I

23:37

will say that after I heard your episode, I did look

23:39

her up and she's my dermatologist. So

23:42

I did go to her just for general stuff, but I was

23:44

like, I was like, what if I wanted to do this? Like

23:46

how much is that? What is that? You know,

23:48

just to know, so I have the information about her. Girl, we brought her business.

23:51

We do not know that part. I mean,

23:54

can we get a discount on any

23:56

of the costs that I think she mentioned? I know, but I wanted

23:58

to know. You know, I wanted to know.

23:59

And I realize that probably the money

24:02

that these things cost, if I had an extra like

24:04

5K, I'd probably just get on a plane

24:06

and go-sewer with my wrinkles and just

24:08

enjoy myself. But I get it, I

24:10

appreciate it, and we all struggle and it

24:12

isn't fair to put that burden on us that we don't crack. Because

24:15

we all, we get to where we need to get with

24:17

our faces, and it'd be lovely to embrace it all.

24:19

How do you guys feel about it? Yeah. I mean,

24:22

for me, what she said made

24:24

a lot of sense. I have

24:26

this other side culturally

24:29

on my Sudanese side where there's

24:32

a lot of bleaching and a lot of

24:35

not appreciating the melanin that protects

24:38

us. And we talk about this in another episode,

24:40

but it made me think about

24:43

that.

24:43

All of these cousins that I have,

24:46

friends who do bleach their

24:48

skin, because they

24:50

want to be more beautiful, because

24:53

they want to be looking younger, but

24:56

at the same time, they're harming themselves. Why

24:59

do

25:00

you want to be other

25:02

than what you are? Right?

25:04

And experience life as

25:07

it is. And let that show. It's

25:11

like trying to hide and move away

25:13

from what will inevitably happen.

25:16

I know. It's inevitable. It's inevitable

25:19

and it can be beautiful. Yeah. Exactly.

25:21

I think it's just a very multilayered,

25:23

very complex discussion

25:26

amongst black women, white women, any woman. It's

25:29

just it runs deep

25:31

and it's very personal. So whatever rocks

25:33

your boat, you should do it.

25:35

Yeah. I think it's fascinating

25:37

because I remember when I was a kid looking

25:40

at my mom's hands and

25:42

I could see on her hands the

25:44

lines, the veins

25:46

in the hands would pop up a bit. And

25:49

if you pulled the skin, it would be a little loose

25:52

and soft. And I remember

25:54

thinking when I was a kid, like I

25:56

want my hands to look like my mom's.

25:59

I remember thinking she... We had the coolest hands.

26:01

And at the time, I didn't know that was a negative

26:04

thing, but I looked at it as a

26:06

kid as a sign of beauty. Like,

26:08

I just wanted her hands. I

26:10

think I wanted them a little too much. I'm kind of

26:12

like, I don't even know my nails. Keep

26:14

my hands nice and smooth. Where my gloves at? When

26:17

we say things like black don't crack, I'm

26:19

feeling like it's doing something, like it's trying

26:21

to lift us up, but it's actually kind of limiting

26:24

us and how we look at aging and

26:27

actually putting people in this category and it's

26:29

like

26:30

they can be, you know, that younger is better,

26:32

you know, that no cracks and no wrinkles

26:34

and no softness in your skin is

26:36

a good thing. And I'm just not sure if

26:39

it's the best catchphrase for us, especially

26:41

as- No, I think you're right. Us as a black community.

26:44

We love our elders. We love those wrinkles. Those

26:46

mean so much. Yeah, there's something to be

26:48

said for it.

26:49

I believe it. And gosh, I just don't think

26:51

I can stomach it, quite frankly. I'm

26:53

afraid of the pain. Yeah. What

26:56

pain? I don't know any kind of interventions

26:58

and poking and frodding, you know?

27:01

Just put on my sun hat and my cream and

27:03

go about my business. I

27:05

mean, you can't do anything about that. And

27:08

we can't do anything about it. Let's talk about, what do you guys

27:10

love about your lines? What do you love about the

27:12

aging that you've experienced so

27:14

far?

27:15

What lines? Anything that- Oh,

27:17

yeah, what lines? Excuse me,

27:20

what are you talking about? Okay.

27:23

I don't know. Okay, we get a little confused. You

27:25

can mark up a well-lived life and you could

27:27

see a few things in your face. I don't mind the

27:29

few lines.

27:31

Not looking like a fresh

27:32

face, 20-year-old. I

27:35

don't need that.

27:36

I mean, I wanna look the best I

27:38

can for myself, but

27:40

I don't know. It just makes me feel like I've had a life. Yeah.

27:44

Yeah, I remember somebody told me, you smile

27:46

too much and you laugh too much.

27:49

You're a laugh or you're a smiler. And that's

27:51

not good for you. It'll give you lines.

27:54

It'll give you lines. Don't smile too

27:56

much. Don't smile all the time. Yeah.

28:00

I think that was a point when I was like, okay, this is nonsense.

28:03

I'm not going to do this. But

28:07

it was like real. It was

28:09

like a real thing. It's like one of those tips

28:11

that people give. Just like,

28:13

don't do this and don't do that. It's

28:16

good for your soul. It's

28:17

good for your soul.

28:19

I just hope I can

28:21

stay with this face and

28:25

I hope that I'll be okay with it. You know what I

28:27

mean? Like, that's just what I'm hoping. But, you know, I

28:29

leave room for myself to change my mind.

28:32

You know, five, 10, whatever it is, next week.

28:33

I doubt

28:36

that I will, but I want that license

28:38

to be able to change my mind. Just like she said,

28:40

we have those options. And I think that's just important to

28:42

know and not to feel guilty if you want to do that

28:44

and not to feel bad about yourself, not to feel

28:47

like you're betraying your womanhood or your blackness. And I think

28:48

that's important to know. And I think that's important to know. And I think that's

28:50

important to know. And I think that's important to know. And I think that's important to know.

28:53

Being your womanhood or your blackness because you

28:55

want to smooth something out. I think that's

28:57

just, you know, giving women options. I think when

28:59

we

28:59

cut off our options in anything whether it's like motherhood

29:02

or plastic surgery, we're just narrowing

29:04

the field. And it's just not fair. And it's

29:06

not fair for us to do that to each other, I think.

29:08

Yeah, and Dr. Henry said

29:11

that the phrase black don't crack reminds

29:13

her of the strong black woman saying. I

29:16

just thought that was really interesting because it kind

29:18

of does connect to that to me. Just

29:20

this idea that we are supposed to be invincible.

29:24

Just another thing that we have to live up to sometimes.

29:26

It's true. It's too tiring.

29:29

It is. What a tired black

29:31

woman. How about that? Let's

29:34

just get on our horses and ride

29:36

with the wind. All three of us.

29:38

We could be like the three musketeers,

29:41

like the three rangers. We

29:43

could all meet at the black rodeo. But

29:45

Donald is fabulous. I

29:48

would sign up for that immediately. Giddy

29:51

up. Giddy up. Giddy up. Yes. So

29:53

we went from rodeos to talking about our skin. See

29:56

how diverse in range

29:58

this can all go.

29:59

You know? Absolutely. It's all

30:02

in the power of story. That's the beauty

30:04

of it all. And

30:06

people can find more incredible stories

30:09

told on the award winning Moth

30:11

Podcast. Listen to Suzanne and

30:14

the Moth Stories wherever you get your

30:16

podcasts. And Suzanne,

30:19

would you like to do the honors?

30:23

Absolutely. And that's

30:25

The Stoop. The Stoop is

30:27

a proud member of Radiotopia from

30:29

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30:35

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30:37

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30:39

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30:44

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30:46

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30:49

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30:52

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30:53

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