0:05

When a black

0:06

woman walks up to the

0:08

desk in labor, what preconceived

0:10

notions do you have

0:19

about

0:29

her? I didn't even know we had a hair shard.

0:32

The Stoop. Hey,

0:36

Hannah.

0:40

Hey, Lila. How

0:43

are you with everything?

0:46

I feel like a lot is going

0:49

on right now. Yeah, it's just been,

0:52

it's been hard. I

0:54

mean, I feel like we should talk about it in some

0:56

way because I just

0:59

feel like I personally don't know what to do.

1:02

I want to do something. I want to understand

1:05

better. And I don't know, I

1:07

just don't know how and what way I could

1:09

really help right now. I

1:12

know, I know. You know, that's, that's

1:15

not a good feeling to have, right? Like,

1:18

I'm sorry you have that feeling. I know what it feels

1:20

like when someone's going through

1:22

something and like you don't know

1:25

what to do about it. Well,

1:27

do you think we should do an episode about it?

1:30

I don't know.

1:33

Hey, Stoop fam, a quick favor.

1:35

We are conducting an audience survey.

1:38

We want to know what you think about the Stoop.

1:41

And we'd be really grateful if you could just take

1:43

a few minutes to answer the survey. You

1:45

can find it at survey.prx.org.stoop. That's

1:50

survey.prx.org.stoop. And

1:55

thanks!

2:12

I think we should talk more about this.

2:15

You feel ready? Yeah, I'm ready. So

2:20

for the past few months, the country

2:22

where you're from, where a

2:24

lot of your relatives and friends are, Sudan

2:28

has

2:28

been at war. In Sudan's

2:30

capital, Khartoum, paramilitary forces

2:33

are increasingly taking over neighborhoods. They've

2:35

seized control of stores and hospitals,

2:38

even as a tenuous ceasefire holds back

2:40

the fighting that began on April 15th. Thousands

2:43

of U.S. citizens have yet to be evacuated.

2:46

Many are Sudanese-American.

2:49

But Hana, even though I've been hearing about this in

2:51

the news, I

2:53

really don't feel like it's been a huge

2:57

story, like a huge focus. Sadly,

3:00

that happens a lot with stories about

3:02

Africa. This idea that,

3:05

you know, it's this troubled

3:07

place plagued with

3:09

issues. It's people

3:12

over there are always fighting

3:14

and can't get it right. So

3:17

when war breaks out, that

3:20

narrative takes over, right?

3:23

And so it becomes like, oh, OK,

3:25

it's just the same old, same old. It's

3:28

news for a bit and then nothing.

3:33

But like when something happens in

3:35

the U.S. that affects black

3:38

people, for example, right? With

3:40

the killing of George Floyd, for example, the

3:43

world stops, right? And

3:45

the entire world rallies

3:48

around. Black lives matter.

3:51

But when it's something like this in Africa, it's

3:53

just it's not the same. Doesn't

3:55

get the same attention at all.

4:04

But why do we think that is? I

4:06

mean, the media definitely

4:09

doesn't focus on African

4:11

stories and issues in Africa are

4:14

so far removed for so many Black

4:16

Americans. It is something that

4:19

does make you realize the gap

4:21

between cultures when something like

4:23

this happens. And

4:25

I get all of that. I understand it,

4:29

but it doesn't mean that it

4:31

doesn't hurt. When

4:34

it comes to Africa and war,

4:38

the attention just overall is

4:40

so weak.

4:42

For example, you could compare what's

4:44

happening in Ukraine right

4:47

now to what's happening in Sudan. Khartoum

4:50

is a city under siege. The whole country

4:52

is in flux. Look

4:55

at how different the media portrays

4:58

that conflict and this conflict

5:00

or that suffering and

5:03

this suffering. You just don't

5:05

see it. Like human

5:07

suffering isn't equal.

5:10

Some suffering is more important than

5:13

other suffering. And

5:15

I also think that, you know, seeing you go through this

5:17

has made me realize

5:18

how much I don't know about

5:21

where you're from and what's happening

5:23

there. Yeah, it's been a lot. It's

5:26

been overwhelming here. Folks

5:29

in our community are just in a total state

5:31

of shock and worry

5:34

because of all these militia men

5:36

who are basically taking over

5:39

homes and looting

5:41

them and trashing them. Everybody's

5:45

gone. And like my whole feed

5:48

is pictures of their houses,

5:50

of their homes, of their lemon

5:52

trees in the backyard. Things

5:56

that they don't know if they'll

5:58

even go back to or see.

5:59

again. So there's a lot

6:02

of pain right now in my

6:04

community. And so we

6:06

try to talk

6:07

about it and

6:10

have conversations, the

6:12

grownups, but also with the

6:15

kids, because they're feeling

6:17

this too.

6:18

Yeah. So today,

6:22

let's do something different, you know, just

6:25

as we did episodes that help

6:27

us feel emotionally

6:30

what we're going through when Black communities

6:32

are hit by trauma in the U.S.

6:35

Like, let's just take a moment to pause and

6:38

just reflect on what's

6:40

going on in your country.

6:45

So that's Selma El-Hassal.

6:47

She's a musician and singer

6:50

who Sudanese and lives

6:52

right here in the Bay

7:02

Area where I am. And

7:04

the song starts with this line

7:08

calling out to God. And she

7:10

says, oh God, when

7:13

will you bring us together again? So

7:24

that's Selma.

7:27

And you can hear

7:29

like the longing in her voice.

7:33

We have this whole genre of

7:43

Sudanese songs that come

7:45

from poetry. And there's

7:47

a whole body of poetry about longing,

7:50

whether it's longing for a loved

7:53

one who's like went to another

7:55

city or longing

7:58

in this case for the

8:00

homeland.

8:05

I mean, it's through music. I mean, that's

8:07

where you're finding some healing. Also,

8:10

I know you've been finding

8:13

a little bit of peace, a little bit

8:15

of healing where you volunteer with

8:18

Sudanese kids at a community center

8:20

by your home, right? Yeah.

8:23

In a diaspora, you tend to stick together.

8:26

Our kids all grew up together

8:29

here in this Sudanese

8:31

community in the Bay Area.

8:33

You know, we do the picnics, we have our parties,

8:36

we get together a lot. And

8:39

every Sunday, we have this school,

8:42

like this community Sunday school for

8:44

the kids to learn about Sudan,

8:46

about the culture, music, food,

8:49

games, folktales.

8:52

We just have a lot of fun.

8:55

But lately, the

8:56

conversations have been

8:58

different. We're going to take the first 10-ish

9:01

minutes to talk

9:03

about what's happening to Sudan just

9:05

to get a check on how everybody's feeling. I

9:09

don't want any family to die, because then

9:11

my family would be sad, and that would be,

9:13

like, not good. So,

9:15

like, I

9:17

guess worried? Oh,

9:20

I'm feeling worried, because my uncle,

9:24

he evacuated his family and he came back.

9:27

So he's just staying over there. Like,

9:30

he gathered, like, people from the neighborhood, and

9:32

now they're all staying in the house. But I'm

9:34

still kind of worried, because I've

9:36

seen, like, videos and stuff of, like, near

9:39

our house, Philadelphia. So I'm

9:41

kind of scared.

9:42

It's like you tell them in

9:44

parents' face, like, how terrified they are, or how

9:47

worried. And, like, every single day, like, when I was calling,

9:50

to make sure they, like, can... that

9:52

they're okay and stuff, and, like, they're trying to give buses

9:54

to Egypt. I'm trying to send the money over,

9:57

and it's, like, really terrifying. Never,

9:59

like, experienced it.

9:59

something like this so like she

10:02

can't really do anything. You know Leila

10:04

being around the kids it's been

10:07

a distraction but also

10:09

there have been some light moments. These kids

10:11

are funny like when I asked

10:13

one of them what the solution would be

10:16

to end the war she tells me

10:18

just call up the White House. And

10:21

then they'll be like okay let me go call Joe Biden

10:23

and tell him what's going on and Joe Biden might

10:25

be like all right let's

10:27

help them and then Joe Biden might

10:29

like become

10:32

friends with one

10:32

of them and then like

10:35

end the war.

10:41

So recently Hana I called you and

10:44

you couldn't talk. You'd been on the

10:46

phone all night you were worried your

10:48

family members were trying to flee

10:51

the country you know escape

10:53

this war and you had friends

10:55

that you knew that were in the middle of the conflict

10:58

people you knew who had died. It's

11:02

been heavy Leila when you called

11:04

me it was a time when I

11:06

was feeling the world just stopped

11:10

and it all was just so overwhelming

11:14

and it reminds me of this

11:16

line in that song that

11:18

we heard that I think about.

11:22

She says oh god when will

11:24

we ever go back to Sudan

11:27

it's been too long that we've

11:29

been away from home.

12:00

And Lila, we're immigrants, right?

12:20

We're

12:23

American, but we're immigrants, recent

12:25

immigrants, first generation, second

12:27

generation, that one and a half generation

12:29

that I'm from, right? And

12:32

we already feel that longing for our

12:34

homelands, and that's why we visit

12:36

when we can.

12:38

But now for me with the war, that's

12:41

not going to happen for a very

12:43

long time, if at all.

12:46

All our family has evacuated

12:49

and our refugees in other countries. So

12:52

that line, it hits

12:54

especially hard with this new reality.

12:57

Before, when I miss Sudan, I just

13:00

get on a plane

13:01

and go. Yeah.

13:03

And now I can't. Yeah. That

13:06

reality is just hitting me,

13:09

and it's the reality for a lot of people here. So

13:12

one of the things I've been doing is

13:14

also just talking with friends about

13:17

how they are feeling,

13:20

how they're healing.

13:22

One family friend is musician

13:25

Mazen Jamal. There's

13:28

no thing that can

13:31

open the heart in a moment of crisis and

13:33

allow you to have the catharsis and the release

13:36

that you need to have to clear to,

13:38

for Sudan, we say, to

13:42

take outside that which is within you. Nothing

13:45

can do it like music. We're not exactly

13:47

a culture where everyone is seeing a therapist,

13:49

and that's a movement in new generations.

13:52

But for age-old times,

13:55

music has been the tool, whether

13:57

it's through spiritual technologies,

13:59

like...

13:59

where music is used to induce

14:02

a trance state, where people can

14:04

really actually do some very powerful healing, to

14:07

the day-to-day, you know, singing,

14:09

you know, you're just hanging out on the porch and

14:11

people sing a song and it's a song of longing. You

14:14

know, of course we're in a big crisis right now, but Sudan,

14:17

like many countries, has a long history of struggle,

14:20

a long history of challenge, and so much

14:22

of this music is the way

14:24

that the revolutionary spirit is kept alive.

14:27

It's the way that people can be

14:29

in remembrance

14:29

of the beauty of what Sudan

14:32

has been, what it can be, you

14:34

know, on a day where, you know, you're waiting in

14:37

line for hours to get gas

14:39

or, you know, to get bread and these different

14:41

stories that we hear people going

14:43

through. The music is, I think,

14:45

what keeps the spirit and the soul of a culture

14:48

alive.

14:49

Mazin told me recently that, like

14:52

me, he's been hearing music differently

14:54

these days, just feeling it in

14:57

a different way.

14:58

Today just made me think

15:01

of my grandma, and

15:04

she had traveled to Sudan. She

15:07

had come here to the U.S. for some medical treatments, and,

15:10

you know, the revolution has been going

15:12

on for a while and it hasn't been that safe, and

15:15

we want her to be here, but she wants to be home, you

15:17

know. All the comforts are here, all the

15:20

things are here in the West, in America,

15:22

in Rilharp, but she just wanted

15:24

to be at home where her sisters are, where

15:26

her family is, where her land is, and

15:29

so after convincing us and convincing us she

15:31

goes to Sudan, she's come with bags full

15:33

of gifts and

15:36

things that she's

15:36

got. She's for the kids and for her sisters,

15:39

and, like, she's just so excited to come back, and

15:41

two days later the war breaks out.

15:45

And, you know, within

15:47

another day or two they're fleeing, and bags

15:50

full of gifts are left there, and she

15:52

didn't get to see her sister. She had traveled halfway

15:54

around the world. Yeah, you know, I

15:56

might not be quite done crying about

15:58

it, but...

15:59

It's starting to move now. And the music

16:02

kind of took this thing that was like an

16:04

ice

16:05

in my heart and it melted it so that it can

16:07

start to flow.

16:09

["Shelma"] I'm

16:25

just really grateful that we have people like

16:27

Selma in our community. The

16:30

artists like her are like mystics and

16:33

they are like a bridge between

16:36

the world of our feelings and our emotions and the world

16:38

of reality. And she'll tell what the meaning

16:40

is and she'll take you on this journey and tell you the story

16:42

of where it comes from and just her

16:45

prayers. It's kind of like a prayer as she tells

16:47

these songs of like, that one

16:49

song, basically the title

16:51

is like, oh God, when will you bring us together again? When

16:54

will you gather us together again? And hearing

16:57

her have such an unwavering faith

17:00

that like one day we will be back together in Sudan

17:02

and to have some of that grief be replaced

17:05

with hope, be replaced with possibility,

17:08

be replaced with just

17:10

that commitment and that resolve

17:12

to continue fighting, to continue on

17:15

for our people and for our country. Shalom. I

17:29

love you.

17:38

I was just thinking that I'm sure

17:41

you've been thinking about your

17:44

kids connection to the country, what

17:46

it's gonna mean now, right?

17:48

Oh, for sure. Yeah, I mean, I don't

17:51

know if I'll ever go back. I surely

17:53

do not know if they will ever go back to see

17:55

it again. And that's why that Sunday

17:57

school is gonna be more important than

17:59

ever.

17:59

out. It's

18:02

going to be the only way to experience

18:05

Sudan for

18:08

at least a generation or two. The

18:10

houses are gone, Leila.

18:15

This militia is staying.

18:17

There is no end in sight to the

18:19

war. These people are

18:22

in people's bedrooms and homes

18:25

and have stolen all their belongings.

18:28

And a lot of people are

18:30

saying, I don't

18:32

know if I want to go back to that house anymore,

18:35

if we ever go back. People

18:38

don't have anything there anymore. And that

18:40

realization

18:40

is just crushing.

18:44

And a lot of these people built these

18:46

lives and homes

18:49

through a lot of work, right? And a lot of diasporans

18:52

who've been sending those remittances

18:54

that we talked about in another episode, right? Little

18:57

by little, the house

18:59

is built little by little,

19:01

and

19:03

now it's all gone. Yeah,

19:07

you're grieving. I mean, you've been

19:09

grieving. I feel that,

19:12

you know, when we're going through things and

19:15

we're going through grief, we throw ourselves into

19:17

work and distraction. And

19:19

that's what you've been doing.

19:21

You've been really just pushing through. And I

19:24

know that it's been really,

19:26

really difficult for you. Yeah. Yeah,

19:30

I just wanted to acknowledge that

19:32

because I think sometimes we're just

19:34

not aware of what people are going through.

19:36

And when I talk to you

19:39

sometimes on the phone and

19:41

you're telling me you're talking to relatives

19:43

that are, you know, are

19:47

stuck in Egypt or, you know, people

19:49

that are scattered throughout the world and relatives

19:52

that are pooling money together

19:54

to help pay for rents for people

19:56

to relocate. And I mean,

19:58

it's just a lot.

20:00

and this idea

20:03

that you might not ever be able to go back. I

20:06

just think it's just so heartbreaking. So

20:09

I just think we needed to just say

20:12

what is happening, what

20:15

you're going through.

20:16

Ah-ha. Faragna az-zayn

20:19

nas. Faragna

20:21

az-zayn nas. Allah yamsak.

20:25

Narechok shavida khalas. Faragna

20:29

az-zayn nas. Faragna

20:32

az-zayn nas. Allah yamsak. Narechok

20:37

shavida khalas. And that's The Stoop. The

20:40

Stoop is a proud member of Radiotopia

20:42

from PRX, a network of

20:44

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20:47

podcasts. The

20:49

Stoop includes producer Natalie Parrott,

20:52

engineer James Rollins, art by

20:54

Nima Iyer, social media by

20:56

Summer Williams. Support

20:59

for The Stoop comes from California Humanities,

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21:06

Special thanks to the NPR Story

21:09

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21:28

Faragna az-zayn nas. Faragna

21:31

az-zayn nas. Allah yamsak.

21:36

Narechok shavida khalas. Narechok

21:39

shavida khalas. Narechok

21:42

shavida khalas. Narechok

21:44

shavida khalas. Radiotopia

21:51

from PRX. Radiotopia.