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Hey everybody, we're back once again and I am so excited.

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I get to talk to Miss Jean today and I have been looking forward to this

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conversation for a while so I'm so excited.

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Thank you so much for being here. Why don't you take a second, introduce yourself, tell us where you're at.

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Okay, I am Jean Darnell.

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I'm also known as Awaken librarian So for those of you that listen to us via social

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media Please feel free to get onto my website Awaken librarian .com or catch me

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on twitter or x I should say my apologies x at Awaken librarian altogether as one

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word But I am a texas librarian and I am down here trying to save our school

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libraries. I am raising as much cane as I can.

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If you follow me, you know that I speak my mind, truth to power.

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And so I try to practice what I preach and be the good trouble in the world and wake

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up people to what's going on as far as our liberties and what we are guaranteed about

1:04

by our rights. I paid attention in history class.

1:07

I went to undergrad at Baylor University and my studies were in English and history

1:12

because I was taking so many. classes of each.

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I was like, dude, I might as well just double major and kill two birds with one

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stone. So, yes, I've been a school librarian for coming upon 11 years and I've been in

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public education for almost 23 years.

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So I got a little sweat equity put into this and I love what I do.

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I'm very passionate about student agency and voice and advocacy and looking out for

1:43

my community. So that's what I do.

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My website started off as a school assignment and I loved it so much and

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being able to have my own platform and kind of my digital baby that I was like,

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yeah, this is going to continue.

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I found a little niche for myself and I'm like, yeah, this is how I can get my work

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and my content out there and connect directly to my community.

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So it took off and I haven't stopped.

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no, you never stop. You are the greatest.

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I love it. You are such a wonderful force in school librarianship and I am so glad that we're

2:19

getting to have this conversation. I'm curious though, so you were a double major English in history and then you were

2:24

teaching for a while before you got into the library. What was sort of your path to the librarianship?

2:29

Okay, so I have to give a shout out to my high school.

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I was a high school English teacher, the dreaded senior English teacher and my

2:37

campus librarian. His name was Dr.

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Roger Leslie and he was kind of like my savior.

2:42

It was my confidant whenever I had, you know, issues in class or just needed

2:47

sound, you know, educator advice, mentor advice.

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Dr. Leslie was my go to.

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And so every time he would, you know,

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say you should think about you know going back and getting the master's in library

2:59

school librarianship I think you'd be great at it.

3:01

I'm like don't have the money for that.

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I'm a single mom trying to raise two knucklehead kids.

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I just didn't have the time and the finances and so he kept pestering me and

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one day he asked me again he's like and before you say you don't have the money I

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put your name in for a cohort and they will pay for it all you got to do is pay

3:21

for your books. I was like you play it.

3:25

And he was like, no, seriously.

3:28

He's like, so if you really want to do it, I believe that much in you.

3:32

And then within two weeks, I take in my DRE.

3:35

This was November by January.

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I was enrolled. And I was just like, and it was the hardest thing I ever had to do.

3:43

I had no business being a single mom, trying to raise two kids and go back to

3:49

graduate school at night while working a full -time job.

3:53

But that's. That's me and in that show I've always been ambitious.

3:57

You could I just couldn't do a little bit I always had to go that that extra

4:02

unctuous. Sometimes it's a it's a double -edged sword because I don't know how to rest

4:07

People have to remind me. Hey, you know You might want to chill because I'm tired of looking at like my

4:12

sons will tell me I'm tired of you being on podcast I'm tired of dinner having to

4:16

be rushed and the last two years alone they just look at me and when I get a

4:21

certain looking stare in the face like really I

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This is what you gonna do tonight. And so I am slowly but surely I've promised I took on a lot this last year So

4:32

I promised my boys I'm gonna take it easier 24 25 school year and there and

4:37

they're looking for Expectation guidelines, you know kind of checkpoints

4:42

to make sure oh, are you just giving me lip service?

4:44

Are you really doing this? I said I promised them next year.

4:47

I'm not gonna take on so much But then the long story that's how I

4:55

Yeah, no, that's awesome. We're going to miss you that you're not going to be as omnipresent, but I also

5:01

think it's very important. I mean, clearly you need to be there for your boys.

5:05

Yeah, I'm there. One is 21 and one is 15, so I already have one kind of out, but I don't want to miss

5:12

out on the porting with my youngest.

5:15

So I'm trying to listen as far as parent and not just dictate, but listen to the

5:19

feedback, you know, and self -reflection.

5:22

I think that's a sign of maturity when parents can do that with their kids and

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not, you know, take it to heart so much and just, you know, because that's a human

5:32

being too. They have feelings and thoughts. just like anyone else and so, you know, when he's like, mama, you're doing too

5:38

much. And I'm like, okay, okay, I might understand that because he looked, he

5:42

accidentally looked at my calendar once. He's like, this is all you're doing?

5:46

And I'm like, well, yeah, I live by my calendar.

5:50

So, but yeah, I love, I love school librarianship.

5:53

I'm passionate about it. And if I can't be teaching it in, in the library, I want to be talking about it.

5:59

If I can't be talking about it, I want to be helping somebody get to some insight

6:02

about it because. I've said it before, my culture, my heritage, literacy has been such a

6:10

prohibitive area that I'm like, no, I'm going to drink as much as this literacy

6:17

juice. I'm going to get absorbed as I can in it.

6:20

Because when you look at our times right now, you never know when it's going to be

6:24

snatched. And so I look at the book censorship that's going on and I look at the voices

6:31

that are censored. That's why I went up.

6:34

who are, I can't believe I did this, but I did do it.

6:38

I walked up to our Texas Library Association president and I said, where do

6:44

you need help? And she's like, well, I don't have anyone to lead the intellectual freedom

6:48

committee. I said, well, I want to caution you to who I am before you ask me if I want to

6:54

volunteer. And I told her, I was like, I'm a waking librarian on social media.

6:59

She's like, oh, I know who you are. And I was like,

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So are you sure you want to offer this to me?

7:05

And she was just like, you know, if you, if you want to lead, I'm looking for a

7:09

leader. And so that's how I got into that position.

7:12

And it was just truth to power.

7:14

I saw what's happening with the bands.

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And like I said, whose voices were being erased.

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I wasn't going to stand by. There's no way I can live and exist in this time period.

7:24

What's going on as the person I am and not speak up because then I'm not worth my

7:29

salt. Everything I said is just. water under the bridge.

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It's mouthwashed of the worst kind.

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So, I had to advocate the only way I knew how, which was to write, to use my

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platform, to antagonize sometimes because I do have a way with words.

7:48

My grandmama told me that long ago.

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She's like, you gotta watch your words because you can string together sentences

7:54

way above your age.

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She used to tell me, she's like, I don't know where you got that sentence from.

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I'm like. I just thought of it, because he's like, well, you gotta watch your words.

8:04

But it's... advocate and warrior.

8:06

I'm so glad that they were able to find you this.

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I mean, intellectual freedom. That's like, I can't think of a better match for you.

8:14

So that's outstanding. thank you.

8:18

I appreciate it. I hope I have not done anything out of the ordinary to, you know, make someone second

8:24

guess choosing me, but I am, if there's not anything else, I'm passionate about

8:29

it. So you're going to get the full force of me.

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That might not be great in everyone's perspective, but it's the only way I know

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how to be me. Absolutely.

8:38

And you are here not only to help us understand how important advocating is,

8:43

which you absolutely do on such an amazing level all over the place, but you're also

8:48

here to share this great lesson. And I think it's so timely that you're bringing us a lesson about AI because I

8:54

mean, is there a bigger buzz in school librarianship or schools or education

8:59

right now? I don't think there is. So I am so excited.

9:03

education technology was right in my wheelhouse for school librarianship.

9:08

I immediately took tech tech to technology.

9:12

Ain't that a tongue twister? But yeah, so it all started back in 2001 when I taught myself how to code because I

9:20

knew computers were going to be the next wave when we were coming out of the late

9:25

90s and we were worried about the year two, two K .O.

9:29

and not to K .O. But you know, seriously, turning into 2000, we were worried about what computers

9:35

were going to do. We had all these prophecies and stuff.

9:38

And I was like, well, I need to start learning the language.

9:40

If computers are that, you know, indicative of our future, I needed to get

9:46

some ground and understanding on it. And so same thing when AI came out, I was like, no, I got to get ahead of this.

9:52

You know, the generative AI was just what the fun part of AI that they released to

9:58

the public, AI had been around.

10:00

for decades before that, but for the education teaching practices, I thought

10:06

generative AI was definitely a big buzzword.

10:09

And I was like, yeah, I'm gonna have to get knee deep in it.

10:12

So, my downtime, I did what I do best is I start digging.

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I'm how is this gonna affect libraries? How is this gonna affect teaching, curriculum, grading?

10:21

You a lot of the concerns that everyone else had, I was digging, looking for the

10:26

data. I immediately went into library research mode.

10:29

I was like, what is the data saying? Yeah.

10:31

And then I had to apply it to me, you know, on a social, economical standpoint

10:36

as well. How is AI going to affect people that look like me?

10:39

Because I just got to be honest. I got to look at it from the most open and inclusive perspective as possible because,

10:47

hey, you know, there's good, bad and ugly and just about everything.

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So it behooves me to pay attention to the details.

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And so I wanted to. dig deep, get in there.

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The only way I feel like you can really learn is to get knee deep in the mud with

11:01

someone. And that's with any experience ever.

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So even when I'm teaching, I'm teaching the kids, but the kids are teaching me and

11:09

we're knee deep in this mud together. And we might have to wade and feed off of each other and, you know, spit ideas at

11:15

each other just to get to the destination. But that's the whole learning process, you know, so in both of us working together,

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you know, educator and student.

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We facilitate the knowledge and we get the steps needed in order to get to the goal.

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That's how I've always taught.

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You know, whenever it was a lesson, I'm going to demonstrate it for you.

11:34

And please correct me if I screw up because these kids are sharper than we

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are. And so when I looked at right now, our kids being born in 2008, you know, these

11:46

are our 16, 17, 18 year olds, you know, 2005, six, seven years.

11:52

And so the... They've had swipe technology at their fingertips.

11:56

They're not like, you know, me and used to play Oregon Trail on the computer, you

12:00

know, did not have the old, and we had the prehistoric kind of dinosaur age of

12:07

computer technology. And so they've had the sophistication.

12:10

So I want to listen to what they have to say.

12:12

I want to see what their fears are. I want to hear what their feedback is from AI, because I feel like some school

12:19

districts and leadership are not listening to them.

12:22

And I feel like that's cutting your nose off despite your face because if you're

12:28

really about data and student agency, you would be listening to them.

12:32

And so when it comes to AI, I want to get as much content as I can out there in

12:37

front of them. I want them to look at it. I want them to investigate it, play with it, do all the curiosities that we don't

12:44

allow kids to do so much anymore because we're into the structured, standardized

12:49

way of the days. to get the data that way.

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But I think creative data supersedes any type of orchestrated standardized data.

12:57

Now that's just me talking. But I fully believe that.

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So I want AI in front of the kids' face.

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And so that's what got me to write in this unit.

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I was accepted into a teacher fellowship with the Pulitzer Center.

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And that's where you do investigative journalism.

13:15

Because in addition to being a school librarian,

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I do investigate journalism on the side and I'm constantly writing articles and

13:24

sharing my thoughts and doing research because that's the geeky side of

13:31

librarianship that I get to research the world as it's happening right now.

13:35

And so that's how I bring my full self into the role.

13:40

And so with AI, I was doing a lot of learning about AI, especially generative

13:46

AI. I wanted to make sure that I did the investigative part to really understand

13:52

what I'm talking about, not just regurgitating the factoids that an app

13:58

wants to teach you about it. I needed to understand what training data was, what large language modules are, what

14:04

even just the other day I learned brain computing identities for BCIs or for

14:13

literally. attaching AI algorithms via different neuro paths that they could put on top of

14:19

your head, attached to your brain to read your neuro waves in order to, you know,

14:26

people that are quadriplegics, people that have had amputations to get their

14:29

prosthetics to work like we do in thinking right now when you want to move your arm

14:34

or wave your hand and they're reading the neurons in your brains.

14:37

And so I saw that and I think it's fascinating.

14:41

Yeah. I also know that sometimes the fascinating glitter of technology, newness of

14:47

technology is amazing, what it can do.

14:50

But I also have to look at everything between an equity and inclusive lens.

14:54

And I'm like, they were like, well, what are your questions about this?

14:56

And it's like, well, is it going to affect the brain?

14:58

Long -term usage, because when you think about it, when we have to get scans and we

15:03

look at, you know, put neural pads on our bodies only for temporary.

15:07

So putting that on your brain every single day, what can be the long -term damage of

15:11

it? With those pets, you know, just participating in it to get the bang for

15:16

your buck of being able to control something else using your brain power,

15:20

does it degrade the brain in any shape, fashion, or form?

15:22

So these are just the things that I'm, you know, thinking about when I look at the

15:26

marvel of what AI can be and how it can help.

15:30

But I also want to hear what the kids are because sometimes kids can give you

15:33

perspective you've never even thought of.

15:36

Mm -hmm. was like, holy moly, I can't believe you just came up with that.

15:41

And so that's why I believe in. many times there's this belief that like as the educator, we're the one that's

15:46

supposed to have all the answers. And if we're not passing the information on, then what are we doing?

15:50

And it's like, well, no, like we should be co -learning.

15:54

Like I absolutely love how you kind of brought up that idea of we're learning

15:59

from each other because they've got knowledge and skills and insights that

16:02

we're not going to have. And we can't just assume that we know everything there is to know.

16:05

I mean, you have done an amazing deep dive in this clearly, but like,

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there's gonna be something that a kid has tried or done that maybe it just didn't

16:14

occur to you. And so having that conversation and that collaboration and learning, so valuable,

16:20

so important. I think that's what we're missing sometimes when we get so bogged down on

16:25

the data, we forget to interact and influence in, you know, as best as we can

16:32

manipulate the data into a creative aspect, if I can put it like that.

16:37

And so in saying that, I had to devise a unit, going back to what I was saying with

16:43

the Poulter Center teaching fellowship, I had to design a unit of investigative

16:48

journalism that

16:51

specifically how it affects marginalized communities and whose voice was missing.

16:56

So when I was looking at all the rollout from AI, me just being, you know, a waking

17:02

librarian, I was like, how is this affecting black people?

17:04

I had to figure out real quick. I was like, hold on a second.

17:07

When I looked at, you know, what was going on in the news and the book bands and how

17:12

they were banning books about us, for us, you know, aimed to, you know, influence

17:17

those that... and took a participatory interest in the black community.

17:20

And I saw that band in there. I was like, okay, are we being banned in AI?

17:25

So that's where I first went in to generative AI.

17:29

I was like, okay, so what is generative AI saying about the black community?

17:32

That's the first thing I wanted to know. And so I asked it to write a history, a black history paper.

17:38

I just wanted to see where it was at and what it was working with.

17:40

That's all it was just an investigative part because that's what I do in my free

17:45

time. And I did not like what a chat GPT OpenAI said.

17:50

So, you know, me being me, I was like, okay, this is what you think about the

17:55

community. Considering that I have a vested interest, I'm going to teach you what it is that you

17:59

should be looking at. Because I knew that there was train of data that was going in and the people that

18:04

were monitoring AI in that training data room were not looking like me.

18:08

Because if they were looking at like me, that paper wouldn't have been produced out

18:14

of, you know, if the input was,

18:16

as diverse and inclusive as it needed to be, then the output should have reflected

18:21

that. And considering that the output for a chat GPT that what I use in this particular

18:28

situation did not, you know, have the success that I wanted to, that I felt it

18:35

needed to, to give a brief overview of our contributions to this country, I was

18:42

livid. And so I was like, okay, this is a blog post.

18:46

Y 'all, they are in generative AI is popular right now.

18:49

Okay, let me tell you what I think.

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And I sat down and then PBS was just like, you know, we saw your piece.

18:58

We want to publish this. And I was like, real?

19:01

Did y 'all see all? And they were like, no, no, no, we, we saw it just as it is.

19:05

And we want to, you know, we want to give your voice a platform.

19:09

So then I was like, okay. And I felt like, well, I get it.

19:12

I did, I did a. dark side. I gave Lord Vader's understanding of the AI galaxy.

19:18

So then I was like, well, let me, let me put myself into a bootcamp and I signed up

19:23

for an AI bootcamp. And I was like, let me learn as much as possible.

19:27

Cause whenever I counter information, I know there's a good side to it.

19:32

No, there's a valuable side. And so I wanted to give myself as much level playing field as I could, as it

19:39

related to AI. So I was like, teach me as much as.

19:42

as you know, I'm one of these geeky people that will sit there in their free time and

19:46

do the coursework in order to get the certificate so I can understand AI.

19:50

And that's what I did. And so then I got a better understanding.

19:53

I was able to like, how can you teach this?

19:56

How can you engage kids with this? How can this be fun?

19:58

How can I use this for literacy?

20:00

So that's when I came up with seven innovative, you know, ways to use literacy

20:05

prompts using chat GPT. And I had a lot of fun with it.

20:08

I was doing everything from, you know, writing sassy,

20:13

AI generated out of office replies using Beyonce songs.

20:18

I had Edgar Allen Poe writing the essay to advocate for kids to read scary books.

20:24

I had AI generate a campaign for running for mayor for someone that is 18 years old

20:31

and never ran for mayor before. So I was having fun with it, doing different ideas, because I wanted teachers

20:38

to be able to have that same kind of fun.

20:41

And then other companies started rolling out their programs and you know, I've used

20:45

AI in Canva. I've used AI, Magic School AI.

20:50

And so I'm having fun with it, but the investigative side, going back to what I

20:56

was saying, I had to, I wanted to hear what the kids had to say because that was

21:01

the most important. So I put together a unit where I was going to teach the kids the how social media and

21:09

AI are in a. marriage so to speak and then how the algorithms that AI has can be manipulated

21:22

and can spit out bad things and can you know be biased against certain genders and

21:29

certain communities and so I had to give that equitable kind of focal point on AI

21:36

and then how some schools were using the biometrics.

21:41

biometric data and using AI algorithms to monitor students.

21:46

And so I've been teaching that lesson to some high schoolers as part of the

21:51

investigative journalism. I was teaching some high schoolers in Chicago last week.

21:55

And so I presented this lesson in the articles and they looked at the data and

21:59

they were just like, so many points.

22:01

They just wait, whoa, hand pop up real like rapid fire.

22:04

Whoa, whoa, miss. So you're saying that AI is reading our posts.

22:10

Social media and I say yeah, there's an algorithm out there to do it.

22:13

I said you have Navigate 360 detect you have social sentinel you have securely you

22:19

have Gaple grapple or I think it's gaffled whatever it is, but different things that

22:25

you literally Have relationships with all of your social media content producers

22:30

whether it's Instagram whether it's you know YouTube or you know Facebook

22:38

You know, all of the different big three, they had relationships and they were

22:42

reviewing those posts. And then based upon those posts, they would send out safety security alerts.

22:47

And so I shared a story of one guy that attended Arizona state university.

22:53

He was a football player and he, you know, coach coaching staff changed and he was,

22:58

you know, affected by it. He was upset about it and he tweeted some things and AI algorithm picked it up.

23:04

And before he knew it, you know, SWAT team was at his.

23:07

dorm room and a barrel of gum was at the back of his head and he was being charged

23:11

with felonies for, you know, knowingly interrupting a school place.

23:16

And so, and he never knew.

23:20

And the school, the students at that school never knew that they were being

23:24

monitored by an AI big brother named social Sentinel.

23:28

And so, and that's what flagged.

23:30

And so when I saw that article, I was immediately upset because of course this

23:35

kid looks, comes. from a community, this could be my brother.

23:40

And so my brother was a big football player.

23:42

And I saw that and I was like, but what about your first amendment right?

23:47

But what about your fourth amendment right to, you know, so I'm looking at it from a

23:51

legal standpoint because both of my parents are attorneys.

23:55

They met in law school. And so everything I've ever encountered, I used to read law books for fun.

24:01

That's another reason why I'm nerdy.

24:03

Cause you know, I used to. try to help my mom in her office as a paralegal when she was starting up her

24:08

practice. So, you know, I knew how to read law books and what to look for because my mother

24:13

taught me at a young age. And so when I was looking at the terms of service and agreements for these AI

24:19

companies and how there really wasn't legal guidelines for them that should be

24:25

transparent as far as what's being done with that information and how notification

24:29

would be given to the public if they're in a place that's monitored.

24:33

by drones because, and one of my investigative articles, a girl was

24:38

followed home by a drone and she didn't know what it was, scared her, turned out

24:42

to be the school safety police drone, was just trying to make sure she got home

24:46

okay, safely, because she was walking late at night.

24:49

But at no point did they notify the students that they were gonna be monitored

24:55

by in a social media to buy unmanned flying drones.

24:59

that could identify who they are, follow them all around campus.

25:02

They had no notification of that. And so when I presented that to graduating seniors, the last week I taught high

25:08

school seniors, I was like, this is the capability of AI.

25:12

And so I'm like, these are the colleges that said they would use it or would not

25:17

use it. It changed how they were thinking.

25:21

You could see it right there in their face before their eyes.

25:24

They were like, wait, well, well. So they made me go back and slow down because I was clicking through the slides

25:28

too fast. on the names of colleges that said they would use this, you know, AI big brother

25:33

monitoring or they would not. And kids are like, oh no, I was considering that school.

25:37

But even if they send me, you know, an acceptance letter, I ain't going.

25:41

And I was just like, well, I'm not trying to, you know, un -recruit you, but at the

25:47

same time, I want you to be aware because these companies are playing on the fact

25:52

that you have young 18, 19 year olds that are unaware of their rights.

25:56

And so they're, they're participating and they're knowingly giving consent, whether it's on

26:00

their phone for their face biometrics and you know, Apple's getting that data and we

26:05

hope Apple is going to do right with that data, but we don't know who they're

26:09

selling that data to. And so one of the kids that I was teaching last week, so he's like, hold up with the

26:14

facial recognition software, you're telling me that if the police have a

26:19

relationship with this company that, you know, monitors and identifies everyone's

26:24

face and if the computer.

26:26

Say like if you know somebody hates me and they hacked into the police computer and

26:30

they put my face and say I was at this location even though I know I was sitting

26:35

on my couch playing video games I was like well technically in that the way you're

26:40

situating it should situate in this scenario if that is the case yes you would

26:45

may have to defend where you were against the computer so who's going to charge a

26:50

computer if they make a mistake if it messes up.

26:53

Yeah. the accountability and the transparency on that?

26:57

And so the kids were just like, I've never seen kids back away from a technology

27:03

before, but listening to the rules that they came up with after, you know, this

27:10

deep dive in investigation into social media and AI and the biases that are

27:15

associated with it. When they saw it, it was just a completely different tune.

27:20

And the whole reason why that was taking them through that process is because a lot

27:25

of schools right now don't have an AI policy.

27:28

They don't have an AI users policy. Here in the state of Texas, they have, you know, shushed our students.

27:34

They've blocked a lot of the, you know, AI websites and tools and stuff to use for

27:38

fun because I guess they're still trying to get their wits and understanding about

27:42

AI. And so, but at the same time, I don't think they're hearing what the kids are

27:49

concerned with because, the kids are having legitimate mature concerns.

27:55

And I feel like, you know, any school district that really wants to show you

28:00

care about the kids, give them a seat at the table.

28:02

If you, you know, if you want kids to abide by policies, give them input into

28:06

those policies. It would mean a lot more if like the kids that I had last week, they had to create

28:13

four policies. And so, um,

28:17

In order for them to do that, we had to do the deep dive into the framework.

28:23

But the policies they came up with were so very rich.

28:26

You know, they were just like, hey, we're not going to create, I don't want you

28:29

doing anything with my likeness or image that's going to violate my fourth

28:32

amendment right. I don't want you to do anything with my image that's going to, that can be

28:37

manipulated or sold to a company that can manipulate it.

28:39

They were thinking so far along on.

28:44

the capabilities of it and the mutations of AI.

28:47

And I'm like, this is what the school district needs to hear.

28:51

So that's why that listing wasn't so important to me.

28:55

I had them paraphrase an AI policy.

28:57

We were looking at what the EU, Europe just released their AI act that's supposed

29:04

to govern the whole planet, ideally.

29:08

Now, which companies abide by it?

29:10

We don't know. You know, it's just...

29:12

It was just written back in, I think it was October, November of 2023.

29:15

So there's a grace period in between the adoption of these new guidelines and

29:21

policies of what everybody has to abide by.

29:23

But I want to see how the AI, how the machine is trained.

29:30

I want to look at that training data. I want to know who's in that room to make decisions as far as what this input is,

29:37

because I've looked at the data and right now AI is.

29:42

Embracing our flaws as though our flaws don't need to be fixed and as as a society

29:49

We know we haven't fixed all of the problems that's gone wrong and just

29:53

existing and cohabitating with each other and now we're trying to transfer transfer

29:58

this semi enlightened intelligence to a machine that might be let's just level a

30:06

Computer will and has been proven to be smarter than the average human

30:11

So if you have this computer that's constantly thinking, that's constantly

30:15

gathering information, to develop a simulation of thought like a human,

30:23

eventually it might look at the input data that we're given it, see the trash for

30:28

what it is and decide, ah, I don't know if I'm going to follow that data, that

30:35

algorithm. because I know it produced bad results because I've looked at and analyzed all

30:40

the other instances and algorithms that had this specific code in it and I know it

30:45

leads to XYZ.

30:47

So. which depends on the system itself being able to recognize that the results that we

30:53

have been getting are not good results.

30:55

And I mean, being trained on the data that created the world that we're in now, and

31:01

that's, you know, you're trying to look at the outside of the box from inside the

31:05

box. It's not always, it may not be feasible.

31:08

So yeah, boy.

31:10

interact with that information, how to assess it.

31:12

So this is where the literacy and intellect of your librarians come in.

31:17

And so when I look at school districts that are removing their librarians and the

31:22

areas that it's happening in, they're putting those communities at a

31:26

disadvantage because you don't have the intellectual human being that's going to

31:30

create that buffer that is going to monitor that data.

31:34

or that is going to teach kids how to assess and analyze the data, you're taking

31:39

out the central core processor of your school campus.

31:43

How you think it's gonna work? We always talking about the library is the heart of the campus.

31:50

Well, you just got heart failure. Now what are you gonna do?

31:54

Where's the stent? Where's the medication? How are we gonna open up this vessel again?

31:57

Because we gotta get this working.

32:00

Because if not... We're running out of time because this computer is going to figure it out and it

32:06

might figure out that we're the pest, we're the virus.

32:08

And then what happens when, you know, it's just, it's amazing.

32:13

And so I want the kids to look at it from that, that perspective of, okay, in the

32:20

sense of viral, as it relates to AI, how bad can it get?

32:24

You know, how preventative do we need to be?

32:28

And so given the kids access now,

32:31

While it's hot, while we're still in the formation stage, while we're still in the

32:35

input, while we're still trying to work out the kinks, I think it's imperative.

32:38

That's the reason why I wrote this lesson. I want the kids to hear it.

32:42

I want the kids to interact with it, to think about it, to get angry, to find

32:47

that, poke the holes into whatever theories or whatever public announcements

32:52

are being told to us, and then looking at the data.

32:56

You're seeing what's being spit out, seeing who's being banned.

32:59

for whether it's shadow banned or whether it's book banned or whether it's a gender

33:05

ban because AI has been proven to be sexist as well too because one part of the

33:12

deep dive into the lesson was looking at the algorithmic biases against women that

33:17

AI is perpetuating.

33:19

And so the monitor of our, the policing and monitor of the pictures that we put on

33:24

the internet and how women are scored on this.

33:28

racy, sexy, explicit scale that you know, they rate pictures on how sexually

33:33

explicit it is and sexually explicit could be a girl in a bikini.

33:39

But because she's in a bikini, she's rated as, you know, higher in the explicit where

33:45

a topless man or a man in and what it is, the skinny little briefs that they would

33:51

be in a swimsuit with Speedos. Yeah, a man in a Speedo, ha, no problem.

33:56

You know, he might score 20 on this racy explicit, but a girl in a two -piece

34:01

bikini and she's already at 86.

34:03

Well, what is the data telling you? What is it telling young girls about how their body is going to be related or

34:10

related or degraded down in whatever way?

34:12

So just looking at that data and then, you know, same input of these images that are

34:19

created with AI. What is the data that is being trained on to create these images?

34:26

And how are these images abiding by copyright law?

34:31

And how is it stepping all over copyright? Because as librarians, we got to know that.

34:36

When a kid comes to print out a picture and they want to put it in their project,

34:39

I don't want it to be so much like some kind of Disney princess that the sleeping

34:46

Disney spies pop in like, hey, that's a violation of copyright.

34:49

And they try to carry off a little kid.

34:51

That's a princess story we don't want to happen.

34:55

But no, seriously, these are the things that we have to think about as librarians,

35:01

as educators, as teaching our kids to discern between something that's real and

35:06

something that is AI generated. It's what we're threatened with right now as a country, as we get ready to go

35:12

through another set of elections.

35:14

You have AI bots out there taking people's voices and making it say and do all kinds

35:20

of crazy things. And so you may not know.

35:23

that the person you're speaking to on the phone is actually some dude in his

35:28

basement in Montana pretending to be a political figure.

35:31

You don't know it because it sounds so much like it and the technology of AI is

35:36

so sophisticated that it can do that.

35:39

So it's easy to this way, look at the people who are benefited from that.

35:43

You know, who benefits for something like that going on and how are we gonna be able

35:46

to discern differently? So yeah, I've been.

35:50

you have done a heck of a deep dive.

35:52

This is amazing. You are such a font of knowledge on AI and it's awesome.

35:57

It's amazing. You're bringing up all these great points that we really need to consider.

36:01

I mean, we personally need to consider, but also as a profession, school

36:06

librarians and educators need to consider.

36:08

the lesson that you had shared out, using AI for literacy, where did that sort of,

36:15

if I'm a student and I'm coming in and you're gonna be doing this lesson, what

36:19

might I see as I come in and you're ready to do your using AI for literacy lesson?

36:28

Yeah. I wrote it almost a year ago.

36:37

Bear with me. Oh yeah, no, no problem.

36:47

You're talking about the one I did with Matt Miller, correct?

36:50

Ah... April 28th, 2023, using AI for literacy.

36:58

Okay. Matt and I, Matt Miller, he's a phenomenal man in tech.

37:05

He, he's like a tech guru god.

37:07

And so when I did that article for, um, when PBS picked up my article on chat GPT

37:14

as it relates to black history, this was a part of me doing investigation of the fun

37:19

side of it. So my kids,

37:22

I did not roll this lesson out with my middle school students.

37:26

I had to teach this in a workshop over the summer to some high school students.

37:31

And so what does it look like?

37:33

First, I love interacting with technology.

37:37

So you're going to see my kids at the computers.

37:39

We're going to be, you know, logging in, investigating, playing with ChatGPT.

37:45

So at that time ChatGPT had just rolled out anyone with the, you know,

37:51

Gmail account could have signed up for it and start tinkering around playing with it

37:55

And so that's exactly what we did and so I wanted to see how creative they could get

37:59

in the different types of ways that we could Use the prompt writing to get the

38:05

result that we want. So when I was talking earlier, you know I had an example that I had we had kids

38:13

Writing poems from the dead, you know, so the example that I used was Edgar Allen

38:18

Poe And you know, one kid did Stephen King.

38:22

He had a chat GPT, right?

38:25

About something with Stephen King as though they were Stephen King.

38:29

So I wanted to see the kids play and interact with it.

38:33

And so you'll see the kids typing.

38:36

You'll see them playing. You'll see them interacting.

38:39

My kids love to, you know, do weird things with AI.

38:44

So one of them, you know, had the AI voiceover and so they had.

38:48

joker singing certain other tunes.

38:51

And so they had the curiosity and the fun.

38:56

So when you're going to see us doing things like that, I believe in showing the

39:02

kids engaging with the material producers.

39:04

So how can you make it better? Now that you know this, or how can you improve upon it?

39:08

Or what did you find out that was wrong in the information?

39:12

Because hey, you know, a chat GPT Open AI only had data up to

39:17

2022 and that data was collected from a lot of sources, any source, anybody that

39:24

had a page on there. So I also had to teach them how to, you know, not take everything that you find on

39:30

AI face value. Read it because even if you read the terms of service, they will tell you, Hey, this

39:36

is, yeah, this is a toy. This is fictitional and this is fun, but you know, we're not responsible for, you

39:43

know, they, they give their disclaimers.

39:45

They, they, they put the legal aspect out there.

39:50

So. many, yeah.

39:53

And I love that you're bringing in, there's so many skills that the students

39:57

maybe don't realize. And I think educators probably don't realize are important to teach the kids as

40:03

we're thinking about AI. Like you were talking about writing prompts.

40:05

Like if you can't generate the prompt that's going to get you the result you

40:10

want. So prompt writing becomes a skill in and of itself.

40:13

And like assessing, like if you tell it to write a poem as Edgar Allan Poe,

40:19

you need to know what Edgar Allen post sounds like in order to know if it's done

40:22

what you want it to do. And, you know, as you said, the terms of service don't trust any of it because

40:27

unless you can do the research yourself and actually find where it said the thing

40:31

that it's supposedly giving you is facts.

40:34

There's so many great like information literacy skills built into thinking about

40:40

how these AI tools, how they might work, how we might use them.

40:44

But when we do use them, what are we paying attention to?

40:48

And then whose voice is missing from the contribution of the data that you're

40:52

getting back? You know, that's that that the the Analyzation of it and the application of

40:59

it. So those are two things because When I was teaching this the first time around when

41:05

it became the chat GPT They did not the students did not like the fact that the

41:09

data source was limited. It was cut off They did not like the fact that you know when I asked them

41:16

Well, where did he, where did chat GPT get this information from?

41:19

Did you ask it to cite itself?

41:21

Whoa, oh no, I didn't do that.

41:23

Well, why doesn't it come in with this? The kids, you know, they want to know the easiest way.

41:27

Well, why did it cite it to begin with?

41:29

Why can't it tell me where it got this information from?

41:32

Well, you didn't, did you ask him to cite his sources?

41:34

If you didn't ask him to cite his sources, then he doesn't have to do it.

41:36

That's kind of like what y 'all do. You know, you don't cite your sources when you write your papers sometimes.

41:41

So how do I know where you got this from?

41:44

but you want me to believe that she wrote this sentence.

41:46

And so that aspect.

41:49

students having to deal with that side of things that we always have to deal with

41:52

and they just, it goes right over their head, but now and they've got to deal with

41:55

it. And so, so funny, I was telling my kids, this is a complete sidebar, but they got

42:00

upset with me, the kids last week in Chicago, because I was trying to, I was

42:04

teaching them that I taught the teachers how to discern whether their papers were

42:10

written by AI or not. And they were like, so when the kids, he was so funny.

42:14

He's just like, he sat real patiently with his hand up in the air, like, hold on,

42:18

hold on, hold on, hold on. So you telling me you taught the teachers this?

42:22

Why would you do that? Why would you sell us out like that?

42:24

I'm like. He was really upset.

42:28

He's like, so I was like, so it's okay that you know this information, but the

42:32

teachers are not supposed to know. And I was like, well, yeah, I thought you was trying to give us a one up.

42:36

And I'm like, no, sir.

42:39

Hustler, hustler, this hustle is not going to work for you.

42:43

And so, you know, he was just like, I was showing them how originality AI and a lot

42:51

of the different things that you can do that will.

42:54

determine and grade how much of a project is written by AI.

42:57

But here's the thing, that could be wrong because I wrote a lesson in collaboration

43:01

with AI and I felt like, you know, it was more like a 60, 40, 70, 30 maybe split on

43:08

the writing. But when I put it into the AI content, you know, distinguisher for lack of, for lack

43:14

of better words, it said that, oh, 90 % of it was written by AI.

43:18

And I was like, you lying, cause you didn't even.

43:20

your citations. You didn't cite your sources.

43:24

I had to go get this video. I had to find this article because when I asked you to find an article, you gave me

43:30

an error message. So, you know, don't don't sit here and tell me you wrote it.

43:35

But I know so I was showing the kids were just like, well, great.

43:40

Now you write us out like that. I was like, well, but in addition to that, your professors can go into your document

43:46

version history and look at it and they can see where a big input.

43:50

of information happens. So either A, own up to the fact that you use AI with this project, show where you

43:57

used AI, cite it, show how you made it better or how you took that idea and

44:02

further developed it. Then you will get credit for the AI and you will get credit for being honest.

44:08

The problem is you guys want to pass it off as though you did it and that's where

44:12

you're lying. That's where you're getting.

44:14

So just own up to it, properly cite it.

44:17

I access AI this day. This is the prompt that I gave it to get this information.

44:21

This is how I made the information better.

44:23

Just cite it and you will never ever have a problem with AI.

44:27

We just wanna know where it is and what words are yours and what word isn't yours.

44:33

So, you know, I just have, it's the same thing that we had to teach kids when, you

44:38

know, technology first came out. What is a reputable source?

44:42

How do you know this is a reputable source? how you cite this rep, whether it's ALA, Chicago, you know, MLA format, whichever

44:49

it is, heck, AI so sophisticated right now, all you gotta do is tell it to do

44:53

that. And it will get the source in that format in less than five seconds, which, hey,

44:58

that's an improvement because I grew up, I grew up, when I was in college, you used

45:03

to have to still go to the MLA format handbook, find a way it was properly typed

45:10

in there. Yep.

45:13

you know, bottle your stuff behind it. Y 'all kids don't even know how spoiled you are.

45:18

You little entitled little suckers.

45:22

yeah, no, totally, totally.

45:25

Man, I love it. So I came to talk about your using AI for literacy lesson and I've gotten so many

45:32

more lessons within the discussion of just thinking about how this is going to what

45:38

we should be thinking about and how this is going to impact our students,

45:41

ourselves, our profession. Boy, so many, there's just, it's like an onion of great ideas that just every...

45:47

Every layer that you share reveals another layer that we need to be thinking about.

45:51

It's so great. I love it. Man.

45:53

I think it's so important that I don't keep it in my brain.

45:57

This is the reason why, you know, this podcast is important to me because it's

46:02

great. Yay. Gene, you benefit from it, but unless you sharing it with someone else, it does no

46:08

good. Just being stored up in my head. I have to share and show other educators how it can be manipulated for good, for

46:15

bad, for, you know, for whatever reason.

46:18

So yeah, I want to, I want to do things like this.

46:21

I'm. I literally just taught a college on Friday, you know, what it was, what I'm

46:27

looking at as far as the work that I did for the Pulitzer Prize, but also how you

46:33

can use it as an educator to entice your kids.

46:35

Don't be afraid of AI.

46:38

Get your, you know, verbiage right so the kids understand how they can use it

46:42

because I have to teach for future.

46:45

Not just now. Our kids are need, they will need to understand how to engage with AI.

46:52

the faculty will need to understand how to engage with AI.

46:56

We didn't think when the computers rolled out that they were going to be as involved

47:00

in our lives. We didn't know we were going to be carrying it around.

47:03

You can't be, you know, 10 minutes from your technology.

47:07

It has to be in the same room with you.

47:09

We did not know. And so I feel like we're on the cusp or at the tip of a very large iceberg as it

47:16

relates to AI. The longer you use it, the more involved and engaged with it.

47:21

You don't have to worry about AI taking your job.

47:24

You will have to worry about it if you stick your head in the sand, you're like,

47:27

no, I'm not going to learn one more bit of technology.

47:30

I'm not going to move with it. Yeah. Now you do have, you know, job insecurities because you're flat out

47:37

refusing to engage with something that is transforming the way we communicate.

47:43

You know, AI is powerful.

47:46

but everybody needs to do their part in inputting how it's going to be used, how

47:50

it's going to be clear in the expectations of privacy violations and privacy

47:58

protections. So we got to look at it, all of it.

48:02

And so school is the first place. That's where you learn your social customs.

48:06

That's where you learn your academics, your human behaviors.

48:09

And so to not embrace AI in a school setting,

48:13

you're setting yourself up and you're setting your students up for failure.

48:16

It's just the bottom line. So I'm trying my best to do what I can to help and to educate students or faculty or

48:26

even as an education consultant.

48:29

I will talk to, I will share everything in my brain.

48:32

If you have the time, I will pour this sucker out for you and what I don't know.

48:38

And you have a question on, if I don't have the answer to it, you better rest

48:41

assured. And that 24 to 48 hours, I'm gonna find that answer because that's just, it will

48:47

nag my own brain not knowing and not being able to help or assist on that because

48:53

that's where I feel like librarians is what we naturally do.

48:57

We are, you know, the help mates in the school.

48:59

If you don't know where to go, if you're lost, find a library.

49:02

If you don't know, you know, where to go with a lesson, collaborate with your

49:07

librarian. If you don't know how to plan a program.

49:13

That's what your librarian is. If you want to talk to somebody but you don't know how to set up the podcast, call

49:19

your librarian because they can teach you about Riverside in a minute.

49:22

So I don't see how people are not up in arms about what's happening to our

49:31

libraries and not trying to use all of it because we're more than just books.

49:35

We're books. We're technology.

49:37

We're social workers. We're therapists.

49:40

Mm -hmm. We're playmakers.

49:45

Safe spaces, movers, shakers.

49:47

We're the... Absolutely.

49:50

I mean, like you said, heart of the school.

49:56

We are all of it and then...

49:58

and even if some libraries to wedding venues, I did not know a library could be

50:04

a wedding venue. And it's like, when you think about some of the classic, you know, libraries,

50:12

whether that's, you know, the library in Philadelphia or Chicago, you know, there

50:17

are various different libraries. But yes, I learned that libraries can be wedding venues and that just, I'd never

50:25

thought about it. like that. Like, a life?

50:30

So it amazes me what, you know, all the many facets of the library.

50:35

Yeah, well, this is amazing, so thought -provoking, so many things to not just

50:42

feed our brains, but to really get our professional thought processes and juices

50:50

go in to think about how we can bring this to our students.

50:53

I'm so glad that you came to share.

50:55

We're now gonna go in a completely different direction.

50:58

It's time for our book break.

51:01

So. For the book break, you get to share any book you like.

51:05

Anything could be personal, professional, for kids, for staff, for students, for

51:08

yourself, just a beach read, whatever.

51:10

Anything you like. What's a book you think people should know that they should try and get their hands

51:15

on? Okay, I will discuss my book Legacy and this is a black physician's a black

51:27

physician I say reckons with racism in medicine.

51:30

I think is super important that we start discussing especially this last week where

51:37

there's a law coming out where they're banning Dei any type of Dei instruction in

51:43

a field of medicine and I feel like

51:47

We are rolling back in the worst of ways if that is what's happening because equity

51:53

and inclusion and medicine, that goes back to the Hippocratic Oath of do no harm.

52:02

DEI is affirming that do no harm.

52:05

So this is by Dr. Uche Blackstock and she talks about how she is a second generation physician.

52:12

Her mother was a physician and her and her twin sister.

52:15

became physician as well. And it talks about her experience as a young black doctor in America.

52:21

And so how a lot of the instructional part is the data as it relates to the black

52:30

community is so biased, is so jaded, is so misinformed that you have doctors

52:36

believing that they're following proper medical practice.

52:40

But because that medical practice never consulted black doctors and just took what

52:44

they. internalize, understood, but never practiced and applied about the black

52:49

community. And they're using that as medical knowledge to train all doctors.

52:55

And so it's scary.

52:57

Some of the things that she discusses in here and how doctors relate.

53:01

And so I looked at that and the reason why I wanted to read it is coming out of the

53:06

pandemic and seeing how it.

53:10

Decimated you know communities that look like mine.

53:14

It was important for me to understand why Knowing what I have experienced in my

53:19

various medical issues and not being listened to and not having a doctor To

53:24

advocate for you having to get up and walk out of a doctor's office, you know almost

53:28

eight months pregnant because at that point in time I was done with that doctor

53:33

not listening to me and having a complications after that and knowing I

53:38

the complications that other women who look just like me have faced, that's an,

53:43

it gets back to an instruction part.

53:46

If we have to get back to the diagnosis of the why and why is this happening?

53:50

Some people have to be taught that way. And so she goes into the deep dive of how these biases are killing people and how

54:00

it's a complete violation of the one thing that they're supposed to do, which is.

54:04

No harm to a helm a human that's in pain or that needs your help with your school

54:09

set with your skill set and to save that life and so when I think about The

54:16

segregation and how you had black hospitals and how you had, you know white

54:21

only hospitals and I think about how When dr king said we were integrating he was

54:27

trying his best at the end He was saying i'm afraid that we're integrating into a

54:31

burning house It makes me wonder

54:34

if some of what the medical racism is, is the burning house.

54:39

Because when a person is under and they're unconscious, anything can be done to them.

54:43

They can't defend themselves. And there are only certain people in that room.

54:47

And you gotta know that that person that's in that room, when you are knocked out,

54:52

unable to defend yourself, will still defend you and will still help you and

54:56

will still give you the best of their abilities.

54:58

And so in reading her story and seeing how some other, and she went to Harvard

55:03

Medical School. and seeing how some other doctors treated her and how some other fellow doctors in

55:10

training treated her and listening to her story, understanding what her mother went

55:15

through and what her and her sister, it's riveting.

55:19

And I think about it in a goss, it is, yes, that's what I'm saying, in a ghastly

55:25

way because it even extends into how our soldiers retreated after they returned

55:32

home from. various wars, World War I, World War II, World War III, World War III, sorry.

55:38

But the Vietnam War, sorry, in my community, Vietnam War was a long gone,

55:43

long enough war to where it was like a World War III because the Vietnam War went

55:47

on for years upon years, way longer than World War I and World War II combined.

55:53

So, and then our, the effects of it, so many community members coming back, you

55:58

know, with diseases.

56:01

from the chemicals that were sprayed during Vietnam and the Agent Orange and

56:05

how our community was treated afterwards.

56:10

And the medical sense of how they were taken, whether they were taken seriously.

56:16

And then how that mentality, everything from how they were treated with their

56:20

disabilities coming back home from war, how they were treated with, as it relate

56:27

to the Tuskegee experiment, how they were treated.

56:30

Yeah. the apprehension that went along when the, uh, you know, COVID -19 vaccine came out

56:36

and a lot of the hesitation.

56:38

This is the stuff that, that was knee deep in there.

56:41

I feel like everyone should read because it's going to give you a perspective when,

56:48

when case in point, I'll tell you a small story.

56:52

I stopped talking to a sorority sister of mine because she minimized my racial

56:57

experience in, you know, medicine.

57:00

And she would downplay a lot of the concerns that I have.

57:03

Well, you don't understand how doctors talk and you don't understand how nurses

57:06

communicate. I've worked in the hospital and they're just mad.

57:09

I was like, no, this doctor was not listening to my concerns.

57:12

And so it got to a point to where I had to stop communicating with her because I felt

57:18

like you're dead. And she was mixed race.

57:20

So she was, you know, I thought she would understand, but it seemed like she.

57:26

She didn't and I wonder if this what it feels like when some patients go in and

57:31

they're trying to talk to their doctor and communicate what's going on and their

57:34

doctor is has willful, you know guards up in their ability to relate and empathize

57:40

with their patient. So that's why I feel like everyone because she has such storylines and so many

57:47

different stories that even if you're not a person of color, you can see.

57:53

how the biases and the marginalization and the talk, the teaching and practice has

57:59

influenced how doctors treat people of color.

58:03

And so it's, I feel like...

58:07

It's a mass equity we need to read together as a culture, as a society, just

58:13

in the wanting to improve and help your fellow man.

58:17

I think that's why you should read it to understand your fellow man.

58:22

Definitely. She has a fascinating story and I cannot believe these are medical professional.

58:29

Sometimes I have to stop because I'm like, this is a medical professional acting this

58:33

way. Like how, you know, how are you letting your

58:37

your personal hatred and not feel this as a sentient intellectual that has gone to

58:42

school for extra years to understand the human brain and the body and the biology.

58:47

How can you not still yet understand and interact with these blinders?

58:52

So it's crazy. Yeah.

58:55

Yeah. How can you ignore the reams and reams of data that have been collected that show

59:00

what a different experience people get when they go in to see their medical

59:06

professionals based on their look or how they might be different than their care

59:14

provider. It's just, it's mind blowing.

59:17

This is absolutely a book that is going on my short list of TBR, because this just

59:22

sounds so fascinating. Wow. It really is.

59:25

I...

59:28

You know what? She's doing such a fine job.

59:32

I wish a lot more media would listen to her story.

59:37

You know, CBS, Good Morning, did a segment with her that I thought went phenomenally

59:42

well. So definitely look at that because she did...

59:47

I mean, it's only six or seven minutes, so they can't go that deep into it.

59:51

But I think it's critical.

59:53

right now, especially when you have legislation that's coming out to say no,

59:58

we're no longer going to teach on this aspect of, you know, doctors are not

1:00:03

supposed to solve racism. Are you serious?

1:00:06

Doctors are the first one that knows that scientifically racism has affected the

1:00:10

body. How are you going to sit up here and tell me that's not a doctor's problem to

1:00:14

understand and instruct and teach on to be better helpful and preventative for, you

1:00:19

know, up -and -coming doctors that are about to go through the program.

1:00:23

So when I look at our headlines that are saying that and I look at the structured

1:00:27

attack as it relates to now they're trying to come after they came after the

1:00:33

intellects in the school system because it might be a, you know, occupational bias,

1:00:38

but librarians are typically just the smartest people in the room.

1:00:42

Okay. I know, I know I said it, but usually we are, we're pretty doggone sharp.

1:00:47

Okay. You're not gonna pull one over on us too easily.

1:00:51

But now they're going after the intellects in the field of medicine.

1:00:56

And I'm sorry, but that's here.

1:00:59

That's oversight, overreaching, you know, trying to get us into a whole, I'm sorry.

1:01:05

You are gonna need the education. You're going to need the clearness of mind not to be manipulated in that way,

1:01:11

especially when it comes to health.

1:01:13

You know, now we're talking about longevity.

1:01:16

and messing with people's livelihoods and being able to survive.

1:01:20

And you better be concerned with it.

1:01:24

It's your prerogative as far as it relates to you wanting to keep your medical

1:01:28

license as a doctor, you must understand, you must stop this.

1:01:32

I feel like, and I feel like they did not, they kind of tangled with it with Dr.

1:01:39

Fauci as we were going through the whole pandemic and how they tried to discredit

1:01:42

him. And I thought that was a precursor to what they're trying to do now with doctors and

1:01:47

remove, you know, DEI instruction.

1:01:51

As I, oh, well, we were able to make Fauci resign and want to toss up his hand and

1:01:56

walk away from the madness. And now we're going to make, you know, doctors of color, which when you look at

1:02:02

the doctors across the nation, only 5 % of them are black doctors.

1:02:07

And when you have a 12 to 13 % population of, you know, black people.

1:02:13

and only 5 % are doctors, that's scary.

1:02:16

It's even scarier when you get into the political arenas and so, and when you get

1:02:20

into the CEOs of companies. So that marginalization we're used to, but tired of.

1:02:27

And I feel like everyone is, it's not just black people that are tired of, we are all

1:02:32

as Americans united, sick of the bull.

1:02:36

And so we, if you want to start playing with the schools and censoring what we

1:02:40

read, fine, we'll get it. I'll get the information one way or the other.

1:02:43

I ain't going back in time. So that means I gotta be an underground, speakeasy library.

1:02:48

I'll give you a certain knock in the code and I'll do what I need to do to get the

1:02:52

resources to you. But I hope that's not what we're gonna have to do for hospitals.

1:02:57

I don't wanna have to go to an underground, speakeasy hospital because

1:03:01

they believe in DEI versus the above ground hospitals that won't support DEI.

1:03:10

yeah. do as a society.

1:03:12

We have to have learned from the history books.

1:03:15

Come on now. Yeah, seriously.

1:03:18

Well, I'm gonna definitely be coming to your SpeakEasy library.

1:03:21

So that goes without saying.

1:03:24

Thank you so much. You have given us so many things to think about, so many great resources.

1:03:29

I cannot thank you enough for taking the time. I'm so glad we got to do this and hopefully we can do it again sometime,

1:03:34

because you are just such an amazing font of knowledge and I love talking to you.

1:03:39

So thank you so much. so much my friend this has been a blast and yes, I promise next time I might

1:03:46

choose a lighter lesson that won't I won't have to Give you a better sweet

1:03:52

understanding of it. How about that?

1:03:54

I do love AI.

1:03:58

I Just want to used in an equitable manner

1:04:04

it should be.