0:00

Hey, we're going behind the scenes of the

0:02

savvy seven-figure online business that started as a

0:04

side hustle. What's up? What's up, Nick? A

0:06

little over here. Welcome to the side hustle

0:08

show, part of the Entrepreneur Podcast Network, because

0:10

look, we're the CEO of your own life.

0:12

And if you're looking for realistic ways to

0:14

make extra money, you are in the right

0:16

place. This is the show for you. Now,

0:18

the online business world has always been a

0:21

tumultuous place, ups and downs, algorithm

0:24

updates, but it feels like even

0:26

more so in recent months, starting

0:28

with Google's helpful content update

0:30

last fall. Now, today's guest has weathered

0:33

that storm quite well, going from what

0:35

started as a part-time project that made

0:37

50 bucks in its entire first year

0:40

to now seeing around half a million

0:42

page views a month, which translated into

0:44

a seven-figure website-based business last year from

0:47

thesavicouple.com. Kelly Klein, welcome to the side

0:49

hustle show. Hey, Nick, honored to be

0:51

here, excited to talk blogging and how

0:54

to weather the storm and give people

0:56

as much value as possible. Well, it's

0:58

been a long time coming. I know

1:00

you've been a part of our popular like

1:03

roundup style episodes, but the whole hot seat

1:05

is yours and I'm excited to dive into

1:07

this one. So stick around, we're covering what

1:09

you can do to make sure your content

1:11

is seen as helpful as possible, how to

1:14

diversify your traffic sources, maybe reduce your reliance

1:16

on Google since that's become even more

1:19

unpredictable of late and the

1:21

multiple income streams that all add up

1:23

to super profitable online business. So maybe

1:25

we start here. That's on top of

1:28

everybody's mind. Hey, helpful content update. HCU

1:30

has decimated a lot of online

1:32

businesses, even really well established sites

1:34

that I would have considered pretty

1:36

authoritative. From your perspective, how

1:39

do you make sure everybody thinks their content is helpful? At least

1:41

that's what I do when I set out to try and write

1:43

a new post, but like, how do you make sure Google's on

1:46

the same page here? Yeah, I first

1:48

want to start by saying I think right now we're

1:50

in a time with Google that I think Google is

1:52

broken, especially after the March update we just had. Google's

1:54

trying to figure out how to stay up with AI

1:57

and how to not diminish

1:59

their business. How much it costs to crawl

2:01

web sites? Everything's I think we're in this

2:03

tumultuous times where there's a lot of waves

2:05

gone around and trying to figure out how

2:07

to stay ahead of is helpful content updates

2:09

or for us. I think the biggest tips

2:11

I can give is number one yet I'm

2:13

still the bland southern. I mean you've done

2:15

a really good job of where people actually

2:17

going out and searching our brand and they're

2:19

going into google and they're giving that that

2:21

signal that people are searching for brands. I

2:23

think a lot of the times eighty twenty

2:25

roy to eighty percent of or sites that

2:27

have built a really good brand and they

2:29

publishing. Good high quality content all the time.

2:32

I think they are definitely right a wave

2:34

and they're staying above these updates and the

2:36

companies that are or niche sites and are

2:38

not really building an entire brand on with

2:40

social media and with an email lesson with

2:43

a youtube channel I think that those are

2:45

the ones that really guy hits specifically ones

2:47

that were just publishing a ton of a

2:49

icon time and not the having any expertise

2:51

or different. Sharing their experience or

2:53

authorities or trust within their articles and

2:56

making them better than the next one.

2:58

I think that's super important to really.

3:01

Understand. The users and ten when they're

3:03

going to search these terms in solving it the

3:05

best way possible. Is. That's what it

3:07

sees when it comes to a i think

3:09

was just regurgitating what else. Is

3:11

already out there and say to. Somebody at

3:13

some point has to come up with

3:15

some primary source material to likely fuel

3:17

these stories that are really else is

3:20

ultimately gonna crawl and I was one

3:22

of my series that helps. Side Of

3:24

Salvation Survivor your Mac is it too

3:26

hard In the in the health of

3:28

content staying was like you mentioned kind

3:30

of a building a brand. The branded

3:32

searches a lot of the search traffic

3:34

is for side Hustle Nation type Sf

3:36

or Side Hustle Show is like think

3:38

that. Definitely helped by. Of

3:41

his I like your opinion. What elements will

3:43

go into that we having the social media

3:45

presence gonna casting. it's a wide net. Sure

3:47

having it's an opinion on certain topics rather

3:49

than just regurgitating what else is out there?

3:52

What else goes into building a brand in

3:54

your eyes? Yeah. i think it's

3:56

getting on major publications and sparkling are still

3:58

i think a huge signal Google, it's the

4:01

easiest, most efficient way for them to crawl

4:03

an article or a website and dictate whether

4:05

that's worth ranking or not. But other than

4:07

that, I think topical authority is also huge.

4:10

So staying within your niche and

4:12

staying kind of narrow minded instead of going out

4:14

broad and trying to rank for everything so that

4:16

you do become the expert that people can trust

4:18

and they keep coming back to. And then I

4:21

think, again, overall quality of the content is another

4:23

big one for staying above the helpful content updates.

4:25

You want to make sure you're doing a full

4:28

content update on your site, making sure

4:30

you're eliminating articles that are not bringing

4:32

good quality content and good value to

4:34

your readers. And then some

4:37

specific user experience tweaks that we've done within

4:39

articles that have really helped. Number one, we

4:41

use heat maps. So we can kind of

4:43

tell where people are clicking and which affiliate

4:46

offers they're clicking, which interlinks they're clicking. We

4:48

also use scroll maps so we can tell

4:50

how far down people are scrolling on the

4:52

article to say, okay, right about here

4:55

is where we lose people. How do we make that

4:57

copy better so that people are continuing to get value

4:59

and read the entire thing and stay on the page

5:01

longer? Interesting. That's been really useful for

5:03

us. What tool do you like for heat maps

5:05

and scroll maps? So heat maps is

5:07

literally called heat maps.com. I believe. Let me double

5:10

check that for you. Yeah, heat

5:12

map it.com. And then for

5:14

page scrolling, we use crazy egg. And

5:17

we don't do it very often. I might do it once a quarter on

5:19

our top 20 articles, 80, 20, I live by that rule. And then another

5:23

one is basically, we

5:26

found before the helpful content update

5:28

is that really triggered this event where

5:30

when someone comes to the site, they

5:32

don't want to scroll forever and find

5:34

the answer. They want it immediately. So

5:36

answer the user's intent as fast

5:38

as you can. And we found that we

5:41

have a quick intro and then a lot of

5:43

times we'll have like quick picks like here's a

5:45

summary of the article with some of the affiliate

5:48

links. If it's like a best round out, best

5:50

of side hustles, best of make my online jobs,

5:52

we'll have like a roundup right at the top

5:54

that's clearly lined out. And it has

5:56

the affiliate links that we're basically promoting. And

5:58

it's like solving the. users problem right off

6:00

the bat. Okay, interesting. Whereas before

6:03

you'd almost play this game of

6:05

time on site, going back to your scroll map, like

6:07

I don't want to get people really scrolling down this page.

6:10

Maybe that's going to send all sorts of positive engagement

6:13

signals. It's like, no, just

6:15

answer the question. And that's really interesting

6:17

to hear. And it's kind of

6:19

like a wire cutter, right? Like what are the

6:22

best RoboVacuum? Well, here's our topic. Just

6:24

tell me at the top. Right. I

6:26

always put myself in the user's shoe. If I'm looking for

6:28

best savings account, I'm

6:30

going to go to Google type invest high yield savings

6:32

account. I'm going to find a brand that I know

6:35

and recognize. So nerd wallet college investor. And

6:37

then I'm going to click on that and they're going to tell

6:39

me real quickly how they basically ranked these

6:41

and use their criteria. And then here's their

6:43

best result and I'll click and use it.

6:45

Like the trust is there. They're giving

6:47

me the answer to my question immediately and it's

6:50

all for the races. So yeah, it's definitely

6:52

changed. What's frustrating is this was an example

6:54

to us on Twitter this morning where some,

6:57

some guy had built really authoritative site in

6:59

the fitness space and lost

7:02

all his traffic in this last update, you

7:04

know, best running shoes or something was one

7:06

of his keywords. And now it's sites like

7:08

Forbes and GQ and it's like, what? I

7:10

mean, they talk about everything. They're not just

7:12

about fitness versus this guy was like niche

7:14

down to fitness and got hammered. It's like,

7:16

I don't know. I really feel for people who've

7:18

done everything by the book and

7:21

are still getting displaced by, by Reddit,

7:23

by these big publications that don't

7:26

necessarily have the topical authority. Totally.

7:29

Like I said, I think Google is broken right

7:31

now and I totally agree with you. Those bigger

7:33

authoritative sites have no reason to be ranking for

7:35

those things. They don't have the expertise

7:37

or authority and the trust. And I think those niche

7:39

sites when done correctly and they're actually using the

7:42

product and they're taking pictures and they're doing videos

7:44

and they're testing the quality of them. Like those

7:46

are the sites that as a user, I want to

7:48

see in that when I'm making that purchase decision. So

7:50

yeah, it's super sad. I'm with you there. One

7:53

other thing I wanted to mention on how to

7:55

kind of build a brand and stay away from

7:57

the helpful content updates and kind of what's this

7:59

next generation. of blogging, we found

8:02

that basically making a YouTube

8:04

video in direct correlation with the same keyword,

8:06

same topic as our blog post and then

8:08

embedding it on our blog post has

8:11

been a huge win because Google owns

8:13

both and we're gonna be making

8:15

them more money because they're gonna be sending traffic

8:18

back and forth. If it's on our

8:20

blog post and they click it and they watch it, we

8:22

have a ton of time on page because of the video

8:24

being there. If they're on YouTube and they're

8:26

coming back to the blog post, again, we're gonna get

8:28

more time on page and vice versa. So I think

8:30

they go hand in hand and I think if there's

8:32

one thing, like one user update that

8:35

shows I've been there, I've done

8:37

that, I am helpful content, I think it's a YouTube video

8:39

so we're trying to do that as much as possible. Plus,

8:42

you kind of diversify yourself away from, if

8:44

your blog post loses traffic, you can still

8:46

have the audience and the traffic and the

8:49

income coming in from the YouTube videos. Are

8:51

these often talking head style videos? These are

8:53

my top picks or this is my experience

8:55

with this product, like even example of one

8:58

that's done well. Exactly,

9:00

so we basically made a round up for best budgeting

9:02

apps right before the new year, knowing

9:04

that the new year everyone's looking to manage their finances

9:06

better. Plus, Mint was shutting down, so it was a

9:08

very trendy topic of like, oh my gosh, there's millions

9:10

of users, where are they gonna go for a budgeting

9:12

app? So we actually got that video

9:15

to rank number one and two for about a

9:17

month and then we were promoting Empower through there

9:19

and we made an awesome amount of commissions doing

9:21

that and it's still ranking and bringing in great traffic, I think it has

9:23

like 30,000 views now. Yeah,

9:25

that's great. Yeah, very,

9:27

very high intent traffic too. Exactly,

9:30

very high intent. So yeah,

9:32

talking head kind of value oriented

9:34

roundups, reviews and just sharing my

9:36

experience with quitting my job and stuff like that, so trying to

9:39

build an audience over there as well. Yeah,

9:41

I love the YouTube plus

9:43

written content, almost a way

9:45

to double dip. Number one, some people are gonna

9:47

go straight to YouTube to search, like I don't

9:49

wanna bother reading, just wanna watch the video on

9:51

this topic, but you'll both have a chance to

9:54

rank in Google and I've had sometimes the article

9:56

is ranking, sometimes the video is ranking, sometimes both

9:58

are ranking, that's like the Holy Grail. trail, but

10:00

it's a really fun way to do

10:02

it. I wonder that I'm kind of

10:04

playing around with is like really struggled

10:07

with prioritizing video production. So looking at

10:09

these different AI tools, one was

10:11

like, it could make AI avatar Nick,

10:13

which is like, that's really interesting. But like, it

10:15

didn't quite have the functionality and like didn't look

10:17

quite the way I wanted. They bring in all

10:19

of this stock footage, it would change scenes like

10:22

every few seconds, almost like a music video. I

10:24

was like, Hey, this would have taken a human

10:26

editor a ton of hours to do it. It

10:28

would have taken me like weeks to do

10:30

something like that. And it's like, this is really, really

10:32

cool. So I've got just last night was making this

10:34

list of like, well, here's some of the articles I

10:36

want to prioritize adding this video

10:38

to to experiment with this double dip

10:41

strategy. Yeah, totally. We're pretty far

10:43

along with the written content with AI with

10:45

surf, SEO, Jasper chat, TVT, you can kind

10:47

of use it for anything within your online

10:49

blogging business. I think we're just at the

10:52

beginning stages of the video, which is super

10:54

intriguing, but also pretty scary that you can

10:56

dub yourself and like make a YouTube video

10:58

without having to get on camera. But yeah,

11:00

it's definitely something to monitor and stay ahead

11:02

of the game with. One of

11:04

them I tested was an AI voiceover. And I

11:06

was like, I wanted it to be me would

11:08

train it on my voice. So I like recorded

11:11

this little bit. And then the

11:13

AI version of the didn't sound quite

11:15

right didn't have like the intonations. It

11:17

said, providers instead of providers,

11:19

you didn't know how to pronounce certain words.

11:22

Like, it's not quite there yet. But that

11:24

would be fantastic. Just upload a script, you

11:26

know, talking avatar Nick, it's like, here we

11:28

go. We're really accelerating the content production game.

11:31

I mean, there comes a point where it knows what

11:33

questions I've been asked, I don't even have to show

11:35

up and talk to you. It knows what questions it

11:37

knows how you're gonna answer to. What's the role of

11:39

AI on the written content side for the savvy couple

11:41

of the savvy mom of these days? So

11:44

we specifically use server AI to generate

11:46

most of our content. We also still

11:48

are users of Jasper and

11:50

chat, GBT, we basically get

11:52

the outline done through server AI.

11:55

First AI content is general draft,

11:57

general first copy, and then we

11:59

have at least three different humans

12:02

basically rewrite and optimize the content until it's

12:04

on a final review to get published. We're

12:06

very lenient on using AI like why not

12:08

use a tool that's gonna help you optimize

12:10

your content and get out more content and

12:12

high quality content but we also know that

12:15

we still need human interaction we need to

12:17

add our authority our trust our personal brand

12:19

to that but it's been an

12:21

absolute game changer. Yeah you almost have to bring it

12:24

an opinion and personal insight into the

12:26

stuff to separate yourself from the robots

12:29

but you find it ends up saving time

12:31

still like if I'm gonna have to prompt

12:33

the tool to create the outline and then just

12:35

go through three rounds of editing would it a

12:37

bit faster just like write it the right way

12:39

first? So our editor basically gets

12:41

the first draft done with Surfer AI takes

12:43

her maybe 10 minutes and

12:45

then the first writer will basically spend about

12:47

an hour just kind of going through removing

12:49

the fluff adding our own expertise on stuff

12:52

that we've kind of mentioned within the Asana

12:54

task that we have specifically done this on

12:56

this side also like talk about our experience

12:59

and then it'll go back to the editor

13:01

for kind of optimization and adding affiliates and

13:03

then it goes to the final review but

13:05

overall I think we're at like five or

13:07

six hours of total freelance time. Okay per

13:09

article? Per article which is still a lot

13:11

but I've definitely come to the mindset especially

13:14

with these updates is like quality over quantity.

13:16

Yeah what kind of volume are you publishing on

13:18

a do you have a target for that? Yeah

13:21

so the Savvy couple we're still we were at

13:23

five articles a week now we're at two to

13:25

three and then the Savvy mama we are at

13:27

I believe four to five so

13:29

we're still clicking at a pretty good pace.

13:32

Yeah and then in combination with

13:34

updating the existing library of

13:36

content. Right yeah we have our

13:38

editor she's basically in charge of doing audits and

13:41

yeah she does a handful each week on both

13:43

sites. Do you ever worry about running

13:45

out of stuff to post

13:47

about? Like you've been doing this for what you

13:49

started 2016 or something like

13:51

it's been around. Yeah we've kind

13:53

of got to the point where the Make Money

13:55

niche the side hustle niche we've pretty much covered

13:57

every keyword and topic that we'd want to. We

14:00

still have a little bit left on the

14:02

keyword list, but yeah, 350 articles or so

14:04

and now we're kind of moving into online

14:07

business. And then eventually I think I want

14:09

to dive into the investing. But I'm also

14:11

kind of nervous to do that

14:13

because again, I don't want to be too broad

14:15

where I'm not an expert in the online make

14:17

money space, which is really where

14:19

me and Brittany have all of our expertise

14:21

and experience through freelancing and trying online jobs

14:23

and side hustles. So I want to run

14:26

a lean into that. Yeah, I think that's

14:28

what makes it fun and interesting. Like, well, I'm

14:30

going to guinea pig, test this stuff and recently

14:32

started working with a handful of members

14:34

from the side hustle nation community to go out

14:36

and test a bunch of different apps and hopefully

14:38

provide feedback on that. More with

14:40

Kellen in just a moment, including his

14:42

production cost per article, the minimum search

14:44

volume and competitiveness criteria they're looking at

14:46

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14:48

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need to hire you need

17:04

indeed. I want to ask if

17:06

you have a sense for the production cost

17:08

of the five or six hours of freelance

17:11

time and maybe that includes your time as

17:13

well for each new article. I'd say anywhere

17:15

from 150 to $200 per article, which

17:18

is kind of where it used to be. When

17:20

we were paying just a freelance writer to write

17:22

the content, start to finish, and then having editor

17:25

can edit it. So the AI

17:27

definitely helps us optimize and get the first draft done. There are

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some articles I was paying 300 to 504, the longer ones

17:31

that were insane. So it's definitely

17:35

saving us time and money and given our

17:37

team a system to follow. And

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then talk to me about the ROI

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math or how you tend to

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think about that like, okay, if we can

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get this post ranking, and we estimate it's

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going to make X in affiliate revenue and

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Y in ad revenue, like talk to me

17:52

about that side of it. I am

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not the best at kind of forecasting that stuff. I

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kind of just like, take the approach

17:59

of like, let's throw. the biggest widest net possible

18:01

for our niche into the water and see

18:03

how many fish we catch. And I know

18:05

that we're super cash positive. So if we

18:07

were to waste $1,000 on four articles or

18:09

so, we

18:12

have the cash to cover it. I think just through

18:14

our track record of being able to rank articles that

18:17

we actually write high quality content for, I know that

18:19

I'm comfortable that our success rates probably

18:21

80% that we can get them to rank

18:23

and drive traffic and make that money back

18:25

either through ads and affiliates. Yeah, this is

18:27

the challenging part of like, how

18:29

long is that breakeven window? And maybe

18:31

it is somewhat dependent on the search volume

18:33

around that keyword. Is there a minimum that

18:35

you're going after? Yeah, we

18:38

don't really touch anything under 500

18:41

searches per month on Ahrefs. But

18:43

that's kind of the main keyword I know you

18:45

can rank for other long tail keywords. I kind

18:48

of like the analogy to have like, I just,

18:50

I'm at bat swinging as many times as possible.

18:52

So the more articles that we've published over the

18:54

years, the more grand slams that we've had that

18:57

have ranked on page one and driven tons of

18:59

traffic and affiliate income and ad revenue. So I'm

19:01

willing to swing at as many articles

19:03

as I can that make sense that are internet and

19:05

you're going to drive traffic eventually to hit

19:08

those grand slams. Yeah, it's the 80 20

19:11

to everything, but especially to which posts are going to

19:13

be in the top 10 that we're going to drive

19:15

the lion's share of the traffic. You have one

19:18

that hits and when they could stick,

19:20

it's like, yeah, it can be significant.

19:22

That's helpful. And real quick Ahrefs is

19:25

A-H-R-E-F-S dot com. Super popular

19:27

paid keyword research and SEO software.

19:29

SEMrush is another one that guests

19:31

have mentioned recently minimum 500 searches

19:33

per month. Is there a keyword

19:35

difficulty? I mean, obviously, the lower

19:37

the better. But if anything, you're like,

19:39

I don't want to touch it if it's over a certain amount. I

19:42

don't really look at keyword difficulty anymore. So our DA is

19:44

about a 60. But I

19:46

think it was two years ago, someone mentioned

19:48

to me like make sure that when you're

19:50

doing keyword research that there's at least one

19:52

other blog that's similar to yours within the

19:54

SERPs or within the top 10. Because if

19:56

it's Forbes and New York Times, all that

19:58

stuff, there's no way you're going to rank better. if there's at

20:00

least one other blog that has a similar DA

20:02

than you, it's a probability that you could possibly

20:04

rank for that. So I make sure it's got

20:07

good search value, the DR is not too hard

20:09

to rank for it, and then I have at

20:11

least one other person that's a competitor or someone

20:13

that I'm looking up to that I could potentially

20:15

outrank or be in line with. Okay,

20:18

that's helpful. Don't just look at the

20:20

difficulty score, but look at the actual

20:22

search results page and see who

20:25

else is up here. Are they similar sites or

20:27

are they New York Times or they're

20:29

just massive publications that I'm not gonna touch? Right,

20:32

yeah, okay. Exactly. How about

20:34

on the republishing side or the updating content side, is

20:36

there a process that you follow for

20:38

that? Because now you mentioned, hey, we got 300

20:40

plus articles on the site. I've

20:43

likened it to painting the Golden Gate Bridge.

20:45

By the time you're done updating everything, it's

20:47

time to start back over at the beginning and do it

20:49

all over again. It's like this never ending game. Since

20:52

we've been doing it for so long and have so

20:54

many articles, we've actually kind of changed the ratio. We

20:56

have more audits done per week than new articles. And

20:59

I think that's helpful just to keep the quality of the content up

21:01

as high as it can go. But yeah, our

21:03

process is pretty simple. Again, we use Surfer AI.

21:05

So they're getting a free plug in this podcast.

21:08

And we basically use them to audit our

21:10

article and tell us what optimizations can we

21:12

do. And then on

21:14

top of that, our editor will ask

21:16

us for user experience upgrades. So maybe

21:18

this article needs a infograph. Maybe

21:20

it needs an interview with someone else or

21:22

a YouTube video. What can we do to

21:25

make this article more helpful for the user? Do we

21:27

need to change around where affiliates are? Do we need

21:29

to put a quick hit section at the top to

21:31

solve the user intent more quickly? So

21:33

kind of just looking at it from a bird's eye view of

21:35

like, how can we make this article better? And then to

21:37

go back, the way we identify those is

21:40

we use Ahrefs and we kind of just

21:42

sort by what's losing traffic and losing rankings.

21:44

And then that kind of gives us

21:46

a low hanging fruit. Articles that are on page two

21:48

or three that we can quickly update and get to

21:50

page one. Got it. Now that's helpful to

21:52

know. It's a similar process over here.

21:54

Typically better ROI, getting

21:56

something from bottom of page one, move up

21:59

to the middle or. page two on to page one

22:01

rather than taking a swing at something brand

22:03

new that may not make it. So

22:06

we're talking SEO and I know

22:08

that's only one part of the game. What

22:10

else is driving traffic for you guys these

22:12

days? Yeah so for the savvy

22:14

couple we don't really do any social media anymore.

22:17

I still am on Instagram to try to connect

22:19

with our audience but we originally were gonna go

22:21

heavy social media influencer route and then

22:23

SEO started take off so we doubled down on

22:25

that and kind of lost that connection with the

22:27

audience going so heavy into SEO. Other

22:30

than SEO traffic we definitely use

22:32

our email list to drive traffic to new articles

22:34

and kind of send Google a good signal of

22:37

hey this article is just published and now I

22:39

just got a thousand page views by the email

22:41

list coming from a direct line. So that's a

22:43

really good signal and a really good tip that

22:45

we've used to help newer articles rank. Do you

22:47

send out every new article you post or kind

22:49

of like a weekly digest? Usually

22:51

I just pick one or two so we send emails

22:53

Tuesday and Thursday usually both days I'll

22:55

have at least one new article that I

22:58

want to help send some traffic and ranking

23:00

signals to to drive traffic and our email

23:02

list for the savvy couple I

23:04

would say is not ideal. It's good for driving

23:06

traffic but we've tried to do in course sales

23:08

and affiliate launches and stuff and it never really

23:11

converts well so I've really kind of come to

23:13

the conclusion that it's just for driving traffic and

23:15

building that relationship. We still get affiliate sales through

23:17

it and then other than that

23:20

we really have the YouTube strategy with the savvy

23:22

couple which drives traffic back and forth and we

23:24

can double dip but for the savvy mama which

23:26

is our second brand that we

23:28

kind of split our businesses into last year I knew

23:31

I wanted to diversify away from just being

23:33

in Google so that hey if Google said

23:35

the savvy couple you're losing half your traffic

23:37

we are gonna pick it up by diversifying

23:39

with the savvy mama which really does really

23:41

well on Pinterest and it also does well

23:43

on Google and then we have a pretty

23:45

big list with that brand as well so

23:47

we're kind of hitting it from all angles

23:49

with the savvy mama. for

24:00

Side Hustle. We also have a

24:02

financial freedom guide that pops up.

24:04

We only have exit intent pop-ups

24:07

on the Savvy couple. We did

24:09

originally, I turned it off this week actually, we

24:11

had one that popped up after 60 seconds. I

24:14

might extend that and turn it back on to 90 seconds.

24:16

I just don't want that to hurt user experience, but

24:19

we found that to work really well. And then

24:21

same thing with the Savvy momma, we use a

24:23

pop-up with ConvertBox to basically, it's a generic opt-in

24:25

for moms to organize their time and money. All

24:28

right, now I appreciate you dropping all these tools on

24:30

us too, because that's always gonna be the next question. Like, oh, we'll link

24:32

up these different tools and shout outs. I remember

24:34

a time when the Savvy couple was

24:36

like dominating on Pinterest. Is Pinterest still

24:38

a thing? When we originally

24:40

started the Savvy couple, we were all about

24:43

roundups and it was more of like a

24:45

lifestyle blog. And then when we started to

24:47

rank for make money online, Side Hustles, we

24:49

really went down that route. So originally, yeah,

24:52

we were probably with roundup articles with meal

24:54

plan, meal prep, frugal living type of articles.

24:57

We were getting, I think, close to 300,000 pages per month from

24:59

Pinterest back in 2016, 2017. The

25:03

golden days of whatever, like group boards

25:05

and stuff. Yeah, so

25:08

now we've heard, and I haven't really

25:10

done much strategy with the Savvy momma

25:12

yet, but with Pinterest, we've heard it's

25:14

making a comeback and they're actually sending

25:16

traffic to bloggers now, again, and creators.

25:18

So we're definitely gonna push into that.

25:20

We actually acquired a blog and merged

25:22

it into the Savvy momma, which

25:25

came with 100,000 follower Pinterest account.

25:27

Oh, okay. So we basically converted that. And

25:29

then it also came with an email list.

25:31

So we're kinda leveraging that acquisition and then

25:34

trying to merge it and make it all

25:36

kind of go together and work well

25:38

together. Interesting. Did that site have a

25:40

big library of content already? Yeah,

25:42

it had 800 articles. So we

25:45

had quite the job. We actually

25:47

acquired it at the beginning of January. So my

25:49

team had quite the job of kind of going

25:51

through the articles. I think we ended up moving

25:53

around 150 and then

25:56

we redirected maybe to 250 for

25:59

SEO juice and back. link and whatnot. Interesting strategy.

26:01

It was in a similar space. It was kind

26:03

of a natural fit. Yeah, it was a similar

26:05

space. And it was a friend of ours that

26:08

just wanted to get rid of it. She started

26:10

a different business and we scooped it up really

26:12

cheap. And it's panned out very, very well. It

26:14

helped us get into Mediavine within like

26:16

a month. And this was back when it was 50,000 now

26:19

it's down to 10,000 sessions, but it's

26:21

been an incredible investment. All right, growth

26:23

by acquisition. Now my

26:25

journal turned a little bad. I

26:28

really considered that seriously. So that's

26:30

interesting. Okay, so a little

26:33

bit of interest mainly through acquisition and

26:35

more on the Savvy Mama side, it

26:37

sounds like today, the email list, the

26:39

exit through exit intent pop ups with

26:41

Convert Box, side hustle guide, financial freedom

26:43

guide, like that type of opt in

26:45

offer anything on, I guess,

26:48

Facebook or paid traffic? Not for

26:50

traffic, but we do use Facebook ads

26:52

very heavily for the Savvy Mama for

26:54

basically promoting our chaos to control bundle,

26:57

which is just a bundle of digital products

26:59

and planners for moms organized their life. And

27:01

then that basically leads them into our paid

27:03

membership that we started two October ago. So

27:05

the chaos to control bundle is a freebie

27:07

option or this is a paid product? That's

27:10

a paid product. We're still trying to figure

27:12

out the core opt in for that site

27:14

and what that looks like. So we've actually

27:16

been sending traffic directly through paid traffic on

27:18

Facebook directly to our $27 low ticket bundle.

27:20

And then there's upsells and downsells to get into

27:23

our membership. Yeah, and trying to break even or

27:25

make some money on the Facebook ad

27:27

like this is kind of never

27:29

really attempted to do it myself. But like, you know, driving

27:31

traffic to this low ticket offer, if we make a little

27:33

bit of money, great. If we lose a little money, I'm

27:35

confident we'll make it up on the back end because we

27:37

got an email subscriber and all that stuff. Yeah.

27:40

So I believe I heard through the grapevine that

27:42

you're in 2x right now. Yes. Okay,

27:45

so through their value chain dashboard, we basically set

27:47

it up with our coach, Brian, I don't know

27:49

if he's your coach. Yeah, yeah, Brian is awesome.

27:52

Yeah. So we set up the value dashboard that

27:54

basically said we get our subscriber LTV. So we

27:56

know exactly how long people are staying in the

27:58

membership, how much our. average order value.

28:00

So we have the whole dashboard that tells us,

28:03

all right, this is our break even point. If

28:05

we can get leads for less than this amount,

28:07

we're making money because there's a certain amount of

28:09

percentage that's going into the membership. There's a certain

28:12

percentage that's getting the annual membership. Here's the churn

28:14

rate. It basically does the entire value

28:16

chain for us. So I know exactly how much we can

28:18

spend on ads. Very

28:21

cool. So for the sake of context, 2x is

28:23

a business coaching program designed to help quote

28:25

unquote six figure hustlers transition into seven figure

28:28

CEOs. Helen is one of several friends and

28:30

colleagues who've been through it and have seen

28:32

great results. So I decided to give it

28:34

a shot as well. If you're in that

28:37

six figure hustler stage, you can check out

28:39

some of their material at 2x.co. Tell them

28:41

I sent you and they'll take good care

28:44

of you. What's a qualified lead cost of

28:46

these days from Facebook? So

28:48

to sell our bundle, right

28:50

around Christmas time, we were at $25 per sale.

28:52

Our bundle is 27 and then we have

28:54

a bump. So our average order value is like 35

28:58

and then people are into the membership. So we

29:00

were making incredible money the first of the year

29:02

into December into the first year. But now we're

29:04

kind of breaking even on the

29:07

selling of the initial product and kind

29:09

of just growing the membership through selling

29:11

the initial product, which isn't the best.

29:14

We're trying to find a freebie that we can

29:16

give then do a one-time offer. Thank you, Paige.

29:18

And then up so down so we're trying to

29:20

figure out the funnel there. But yeah,

29:22

for a qualified sale for

29:25

our product, it's right around like $30. Okay,

29:28

got it. So talk to me about this

29:31

membership. So this is targeting busy moms who want

29:33

to go from chaos to control what's

29:35

behind the paywall. What's the price point on this? Over the

29:37

last year, we learned a lot. We basically got the idea

29:39

from Liz Wilcox. Oh, yeah, she was just on the show.

29:41

Yeah, episode 600 was with Liz. Yeah. Survivor

29:44

Liz Wilcox. That's right. It's amazing.

29:47

We love that show. So we got the

29:49

idea of like, what would look like a low cost membership for moms and

29:51

we're talking $9 a month. So we started

29:53

the membership and it was basically just a button

29:55

that said, Do you want more printables for $9

29:58

a month and people were like clicking it. We're

30:00

like, all right, people are interested in that. So

30:02

basically what the membership is, and we kind of played with the price

30:04

last year. We went all the way up to $27 a month and

30:07

we had a bunch of people joining, but way less than the $9. We

30:10

brought it back down to nine, which is good

30:12

for us because it's very low effort. It's

30:15

basically monthly meal plans. It's a monthly

30:17

calendar with challenges with a certain area

30:19

in your life. So marriage, money, finances,

30:22

organization, productivity. And

30:24

then there's a Facebook community aspect of

30:26

it. There's a premium email newsletter that

30:28

Brittany sends out. We have giveaways. So

30:31

they're getting a ton of value for $9 a month, which

30:34

the whole premise of that is, let's get as many people

30:36

in there as possible and keep them as long as possible,

30:38

which kind of like a Netflix for moms. Yeah,

30:40

exactly. I think we've used that Netflix analogy with

30:42

Liz as well. Like it's a

30:45

low enough price point. We're like, yeah, I'm getting, even

30:48

if I didn't use it this month, like I'm

30:50

confident, I'll use it again next month. Like it

30:52

just totally once you're in, hopefully you're in for

30:54

good. She mentioned the churn was higher than

30:56

she'd like. Sam, that's always

30:59

the case. Return to fix

31:01

it. Anything worked on that front to keep people in

31:03

longer? We did some consulting. I think the biggest thing

31:05

is we need better onboarding where when someone joins and

31:07

they get the email, like the first two or three

31:10

emails needs to give them a quick win and they

31:12

need to get the product in front of their face

31:14

that they're using, mostly the meal plans, so

31:16

that they say, wow, this is actually really,

31:18

really helpful. And for $9 a month,

31:20

why would I not stay? And then it's

31:22

just building up the community aspect around it so

31:25

that the moms can support each other and they

31:27

can control the chaos together. But yeah,

31:29

it's, I mean, almost all due

31:31

to fulfillment in onboarding is the turn rate issue

31:33

we have. And the community element

31:36

is through the Facebook group right now?

31:38

Yep. Okay. That's the continuity

31:41

program here, like recurring revenue, that's the

31:43

holy grail, that's the dream. Trying

31:46

to provide that value upfront, the meal plans,

31:48

the monthly challenges, and what was

31:51

somewhat common in the membership space

31:53

is, okay, people will join for the

31:55

content, they'll join for these printables, like

31:57

all of this stuff, and

31:59

then hopefully they'll... they'll stick around for

32:01

the community aspect. Like they make friends, they

32:03

build connections in this space, but

32:05

it's maybe easier said than done

32:07

with people from all around the country

32:10

who don't even know each other. Right. Yeah, it's

32:12

tough. Liz does an excellent job in her

32:14

community with kind of that community feel. So

32:17

ours is pretty good, but it's nowhere near hers. So

32:20

we're definitely trying to work on it. More with

32:22

Kellen in just a moment, including how many

32:24

savvy mamas have joined the membership so far.

32:27

What it was like spending $10,000 a day on

32:30

Facebook ads, the single tool tech stack that

32:32

runs the membership and how he lost a

32:35

$60,000 a year income stream overnight, right

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33:52

How many members are in there at this point? So

33:54

we have right around 2,000 members right now, which

33:57

Is incredible. And It's been such a blessing

33:59

to take. The stress off of owning

34:01

the savvy couple and been so reliant

34:03

on Google is having a recurring monthly

34:05

membership that we can rely on. Last

34:07

year read: on Christmas time we were

34:09

spending. For. Almost two

34:11

weeks reading about ten days we had the

34:13

ads does actually cranking. We turned up the

34:16

as spend a ten thousand dollars per day

34:18

flour and we are motorists. So.

34:20

Hundred Thousand dollars As man, We added

34:22

over five hundred members within that ten

34:24

days spanned to a membership and is

34:26

right around that Christmas to New Year

34:29

kind of week. Okay now turning

34:31

out to calculate him his I have learned my

34:33

lesson trying to do like live mass on air

34:35

but if I do and five hundred members times

34:37

nine dollars a month times twelve months a year

34:39

so to spend a hundred grand on ads. To.

34:42

Make fifty four thousand dollars in annual revenue.

34:44

but hopefully they stick around And right, And

34:46

that's only part of yeah, they're by the

34:48

bundle right for ask for know how to

34:50

time so there's another thirty four dollars for

34:52

each person. I. Think for those ten

34:54

days that we spend ten thousand and we made like.

34:57

Ten or fifteen thousand in profit, not

34:59

including the membership. Okay we're

35:01

spending absurd amount is like scary like oh

35:03

my gosh this I need to be honest

35:06

like every single our the day. yeah how

35:08

is this the for me in real time

35:10

that way. As. Soon as I started to

35:12

die off and like I react. Cause. It

35:14

down. I think we ended up losing like and on

35:16

two or three thousand dollars at the tail end of

35:18

it when it started die off. The it is a

35:20

typical with does it just. A product of

35:22

the seasonality are like the timing of the

35:24

offer was just like the algorithm wears out. We

35:27

reach on the people that we turds it. what

35:29

is it that is was a spot. Yeah

35:31

all the above so we've had that was the

35:33

biggest wave one hundred percent with never spent

35:35

that much were usually right around spending almost a

35:37

thousand dollars a day consistently with they spoke

35:39

as to grow the number seven and sell the

35:42

class bundle be a comes in waves. Sometimes Ill

35:44

optimize like crazy nice but that's been up

35:46

in in the next day it dies and like

35:48

dang it like I start over again. Would

35:50

you say optimizers? Exact swatting out. Difference and

35:52

Images ad copy that can say no

35:55

as just Facebook sounds like it sound

35:57

like a new section at Audience has

35:59

expanded. This is kind of exploding. Island's

36:02

been able to spend money profitably and dad just

36:04

lack of the credit card to let's add two

36:06

hundred percent it is. keep a role and there's

36:08

nothing like it didn't last forever. Sounds like there

36:11

is a maybe the steady state is this thousand

36:13

dollars a day like this. What we're comfortable with

36:15

as as you grow a this profitable but then

36:17

every now and again their site be found some

36:19

new moms to go out and target your car

36:22

with the up. Wow. Super cool. Okay

36:24

soviet be a digital product is chaos

36:26

to Control Bundle which was deeply into

36:29

this memberships what they can terms of

36:31

the transition email the case. Of

36:34

we like, This is handsome value in it's come

36:36

over here. There's more as you like that there's

36:38

more like with the transition. See consider people from

36:40

any one time to pay new recurring. It goes

36:43

back to provide value. First guy came from the

36:45

course we took that gave us the swipe cabinet

36:47

were still using. Weavers. Crane goes

36:49

six for your blogger bites. We

36:52

basically. Give them the

36:54

product right away, help them use it in

36:56

the first email, introduce ourselves, and then it's

36:58

like. Strain. Evaluate: why are you

37:00

hot mass and like agitating the problem can

37:02

walk to the come to us their moms

37:04

and say they're hot masses in there. So

37:06

an orgasm disorganized. So it's like we have

37:08

three value emails back birdies given the best

37:10

tips and tricks away and then it's like

37:13

I'm. Surprised. If I sort of

37:15

like pies like this, no se me that. I feel

37:17

like that's gotta be every house in the country. To

37:19

our it's a fantastic market to go after hours. Everybody

37:21

feels like that. Kind. Of present

37:23

ourselves chaotic for yeah those key words that

37:26

we really dug deep into the avatar and

37:28

who it is and how to talk to

37:30

them. And then we do like a pause

37:32

day and we say something really special, summon

37:34

up and then it's a five day sequence

37:36

into launching and showing the value in testimonials

37:39

of the number said in it's an evergreen

37:41

launch so. Correct. Yep, itself. Alice, I'm.

37:43

Okay what drives the scarcity? There's like

37:46

limited time discount or went talked me

37:48

through that. The people that don't buy

37:50

the cast bundle we basically include that

37:53

within the membership if they join us

37:55

to bonus which is a really big

37:57

bonus and then there's some other bonus.

38:00

There's a bonus for goes away is

38:02

the biggest scarcity and and. Originally

38:04

we started saying that the price is gonna go up

38:06

which we I mean a date and we try to

38:08

and we said we're better off to nine dollars months

38:11

we took that out. But the biggest things the bonus.

38:13

Know. Him. And

38:15

some something. With. Some time

38:17

limited scarcity to get the boss defense

38:20

or anything evergreen that makes sense. Totally

38:22

yeah. And if you can, Open

38:24

causes a great models. Who was You can

38:26

say like this is your last chance to

38:29

join I don't want to open up again.

38:31

There's nothing that beats has scarcely which is

38:33

foul mouth but me obviously. Be honest with

38:35

a signing bonuses for us since we're given

38:37

Evergreens the the most. the most effective way

38:39

to set a deadline funnel thing that allows

38:41

you to take those away real or deliver

38:43

them as somebody does. Ordered the bonuses yeah

38:45

or the side a countdown. If. Someone

38:47

does persists. I do. We take them out of

38:49

it. Yeah, this is. What's. To stop

38:52

them from my going in and ordering this

38:54

the mechanics of it. So we use Drive

38:56

Car so anyone that purchases through that link

38:58

still get tagged west they bought two Evergreen

39:00

Finance or than that once they get into

39:02

the membership portal that products that we promised

39:04

as a bonus will be in the portal

39:06

or some other people that didn't purchase a

39:09

that like guy got it. And what's the

39:11

software this running the membership side? It's on

39:13

Drive Cars so that's our check out and

39:15

get membership academy I say had their functionality

39:17

of them. Yeah. It's definitely limited,

39:19

but for what we do is like deliver

39:21

and principles and there's no way course or

39:24

anything yet which we will add it's free

39:26

so he paid five dollars to get it

39:28

for lice and is better than pandering loss

39:30

for a job here. Whatever. out Polio for

39:33

now for us, it works really well. Yeah,

39:35

it's simple, yeah no need seeing, I just

39:37

need a place for given the foggy and

39:39

grab their digital download said that requested and

39:41

then every month you're uploading the new staff.

39:44

To. That portal and and to sitting out an

39:46

email to say this month's meal plan is

39:48

up or whatever exactly. Yeah, none. Also in

39:50

the Facebook group so we give him multiple

39:52

touch points to trend continues to membership. Got.

39:55

It got it right. So there's membership

39:57

sign of things is there's the affiliate.

40:00

Initiates through as your website

40:02

content there's as media vine

40:04

on of like display ad

40:06

time. for both

40:08

sides event and then. Digital.

40:11

Product is I like. I guess the principles

40:13

like any other digital product sales to speaker

40:15

courses, anything else as part of the revenue.

40:17

By now we've tried to pray five or

40:19

six courses with the savvy couple and we

40:21

have decent launches and isn't cells by it's

40:23

never. We never stuck with it to make

40:26

it work we can have to say hey,

40:28

I'd rather. Optimize an article

40:30

and make it an extra five hundred dollars

40:32

a month. Optimize an article for his like.

40:34

Selling courses in launch himself that takes up a

40:36

lot energy and times. Yeah. That makes

40:38

sense. Is. Their direction you want to

40:41

go. Like if we could make the membership

40:43

fifty percent seventy five percent. as a piece

40:45

of Opi early, where would you want to

40:47

go? So we basically split the businesses so

40:49

that we could be better served. Audiences are

40:51

goers and I think we're almost there already.

40:53

Is like if the savvy couple and to

40:56

zero tomorrow in could we survive off the

40:58

sadly mama down and that just takes diversification

41:00

on not relying all on google and not

41:02

relying all on say marketing as this own

41:04

separate business that's really taken off in done

41:06

While. But. If is stressful still and

41:08

it does take up a lot of time

41:10

and energy. So we're trying optimizers outsource more and

41:13

more. What? Is it time go

41:15

these days Between moves. Talked about a

41:17

lot of different responsibilities creating. New.

41:20

Must Leave. Principles. And meal plans

41:22

treaty new content or overseeing that process, updating

41:24

the old stuff like what's a day or

41:26

week analyze these days for Deny both worked

41:28

together full time. she last two years after

41:30

I quit and we kind of split our

41:32

time. I work in the mornings between like

41:35

nine, the noon or a to noon. so

41:37

three to four hours a day after that

41:39

my brain is complete much and I don't

41:41

know how people work eight hours a day.

41:43

To be honest, I just become so less

41:45

productive after four hours and steep work. Be

41:48

A We have an incredible team. You have

41:50

an Ops manager that. basically runs our team

41:52

which is just the content him and we have

41:54

really good systems in place there i going once

41:56

a month and look at our top twenty articles

41:58

and just optimize nose and they do everything else

42:00

with the audits, the new creation of content,

42:02

all that stuff. And then we

42:05

have a VA that helps Brittany create all the

42:07

printables. And so she's really just email marketing and

42:09

kind of strategy giveaways and stuff

42:11

like that. She maybe works 10 hours a

42:13

week. Yeah, I think we're very similar in

42:15

terms of businesses, in terms of just a

42:18

ways of thinking about a lot of things,

42:20

but very different in another important way. Cause

42:22

it's true, you quit your job after the

42:24

site made its first 50 bucks. Yeah.

42:28

I think I was in a spot though that I didn't care

42:30

about risk. I love risk anyways. I'm

42:32

pretty risk, not at nursing adverse, the

42:34

opposite of that. Yeah, risk seeking or

42:36

risk comfortable. Yeah,

42:39

risk lover. We made 50 bucks and I was at this

42:41

point where I was depressed and hated every job I ever

42:43

had and knew that if I stayed there, I would just

42:45

be miserable the rest of my life. Our

42:48

marriage was struggling because of it. And Brittany

42:50

was sick and tired of me complaining. So I said, hey, we

42:53

didn't just jump without having our finances ordered. We still had

42:55

a lot of student loan debt, but we had at least

42:57

six months of nest egg where we could live off of

42:59

that and Brittany's salary. So that I'm

43:01

not having to make horrible decisions based on where's

43:04

the income coming from and trying to make money

43:06

quick. So that was a huge blessing to

43:08

have that income saved up. And then I just

43:10

had confidence in myself. I've had a bunch of

43:12

businesses, I did drop shipping in college. And so

43:15

I've made money online, but that $50 was

43:17

like, it's just a signal

43:19

of like go all in and you can

43:21

find freelance work with digital marketing cause you've

43:23

been doing it. And within two months, I

43:26

replaced my income with freelancing in our blog.

43:29

So starting out like, okay, I'm gonna provide some service

43:31

to other people in the space and that while I

43:33

continue to grow up the blog side of things because

43:36

now I got an extra 40, 50 hours a

43:38

week to dedicate to this stuff. Exactly. That

43:41

makes sense. But yeah, I'm always like, that makes me super

43:43

nervous. I wanna see a little bit longer track record of

43:45

revenue, but we've heard from other guests too. Like, look, if

43:47

you can make 50 bucks, you can make 5,000. If

43:50

you can make 5,000, you can make 50,000. Like it's

43:52

just a matter of scale and putting

43:54

the pieces in place to make that

43:56

happen. Now over the course of the last

43:59

seven, eight years. of running these things, what

44:02

has surprised you the most? The biggest one for me

44:04

that I think we both went through is we were

44:07

both doing really well with the Steady app. And it

44:09

was an awesome partner for us and it was a

44:11

great affiliate program. And all of a

44:13

sudden, the program shut down. And

44:15

I was spending a lot of time optimizing

44:17

videos and articles to promote them. And

44:20

I think at our peak, we were making close to

44:22

$5,000 per month. And

44:24

if you extrapolate that out, 12 months, that's $60,000. And

44:26

then all of a sudden they come over and say, hey,

44:28

program's closed. And that's like losing a full-time salary for a

44:30

lot of people. For sure. Yeah, I just remember kind

44:33

of feeling helpless and devastated and like, oh my gosh,

44:35

I just spent all, like the last three months optimizing

44:37

to make this one of our core affiliates. So

44:40

that was definitely surprising. And it definitely made

44:42

me realize any core affiliate that you

44:44

have, you need to have an alternative in the waiting for,

44:48

if they were to shut down the program, change

44:50

their payout, you can quickly swap it in and

44:52

not lose that much money. So that was

44:55

definitely a wake up call for me. Did you find a good

44:57

alternative? Not really, not with study. It

44:59

was kind of a unique app, yeah. They

45:01

were so in line with you and me with

45:03

making money online and being a good side hustle

45:05

app. So yeah, we kind of just switched

45:08

back to kind of some survey companies and

45:10

then some courses that teach side hustles and

45:12

whatnot. And then other than that, I think

45:15

diversifying is huge.

45:18

I think it is important to go all in

45:20

and kind of find success in one thing. And

45:22

then once you do and you've doubled down on

45:24

that and you've kind of pushed it as far

45:26

as you can, I think it's really important to

45:28

diversify. So whether that's start another blog or grow

45:30

the YouTube channel or email list, invest

45:32

passively in other ways with cash from your business,

45:35

I think that's super important. And not only

45:37

for the business sake, but

45:39

also mental health and just not having to

45:41

stress about your online income coming in because

45:43

it does fluctuate a lot and you

45:45

got to have some risk tolerance being

45:48

an online business owner. And it's how quickly you

45:50

get accustomed. We had a guest who

45:52

was talking about this, how quickly you get accustomed

45:54

to a certain level. And even if

45:56

it dips back down, you're like, now I'm depressed because

45:58

I was used to making. Whatever. Thousand dollars

46:01

a day or something? You know it's only five

46:03

hundred x. Pursue. A five hundred

46:05

like us to better off that. I was six months

46:07

ago. but as it is just like this weird it's

46:09

human nature their yeah I think his entourage. We're always

46:11

trying to have a growth mindset and trying to beat

46:14

the last month be the last month and we should

46:16

do income reports and I'd stress out about and because

46:18

if I. Had. A month where I

46:20

made fourteen thousand and the next month is

46:22

only time I saw like I was a

46:24

failure to my audience that I was Trinity

46:26

China blog to subdue him as a long

46:28

time ago. But yeah that is interesting that

46:30

any on Thrive ever talked to has the

46:32

same mindset of those roller coaster setbacks and

46:34

cons crushing things. I think it's important. I

46:36

always take a step back and I try

46:39

every morning to spend some time. God just

46:41

be grateful for what he's created and helped

46:43

us with. and super important. He mentioned this.

46:45

Get. What we get easier, right? Simplify first

46:47

to diversify seconds to try to find

46:49

that. Balance. Of What

46:52

if. The. Rug gets pulled out.

46:54

While I was still doing the simplify day before

46:56

I have a chance to diversify. It's really tough,

46:58

but. Adding Does business model is

47:00

set up in such a way that there's

47:02

a lot of. Duty in the

47:04

leverage were in. I can do this

47:06

work right and hopefully I can reach

47:08

a lot of people with towards that

47:10

I do once treating digital products treating

47:12

on my contents happiness in each of

47:15

the associate game sites. Commission rates can

47:17

change at any time touches on the

47:19

programs the program features shut down at

47:21

any point I was doing really well

47:23

with you to me and still over

47:25

the last time this post savvy still

47:27

made forty city grants that at a

47:29

time with a like forty or fifty

47:31

percent commissions and now it's like. Ten

47:33

percent aunts and okay I just prioritize something

47:36

else or like not miss was while to

47:38

go in a fetus is often as it

47:40

once was. Space is. Is

47:42

is constant ebb and flow and and he

47:44

gives a damn well as job will take.

47:46

It will optimize for that's But on the

47:49

side we're also gonna be building our own

47:51

thing and we're going to. Be. Building

47:53

and with her own audience, with our own

47:55

traffic sources, with her own recurring revenue model.

47:57

And to some train, Weems a Reliance. Awesome.

48:00

Google and an affiliate some of them and that

48:02

makes lot of sense. What's next for you? What's

48:04

the rest of this year gotten? sort of. Our

48:06

goal is to continue to grow the membership. I

48:08

have our goal Britain on the whiteboard here to

48:10

my right of return. Ten thousand members which is

48:13

a very lofty goal and I don't think I

48:15

wrote that goal. When we are spending ten thousand

48:17

hours a day in, the membership is growing absurdly

48:19

quick. South Philly got will get there to couple

48:21

weeks is a bigger yeah right I risked so

48:23

that's the big guy. I think if we get

48:26

the half that I be super happy. So it's

48:28

really optimizing the membership, reducing the churn rate in

48:30

cement and all that stuff. and then he and

48:32

his cone heavy on you tube. I think that

48:34

that's still a really good runway before Ai takes

48:37

over and I think it's a really good. I

48:39

don't think there's any better combination between a blog

48:41

and a youtube channel and kind of commingling them

48:43

together to continue to build. Growth is the once

48:45

you find specific can show your face a lot

48:47

here. this is the authority you're looking for. Google.

48:50

I would have talked about of. Was.

48:52

A very good at the savvy couple.com by

48:54

killing over there the savvy mama.com as well

48:57

as see what they're up to. Use a

48:59

threat to sing up with your number one

49:01

it tips for Side Hustle Nation. Minimal.

49:03

And tip is action over perfection. I think that

49:05

a lot of people that wanna start side hustle

49:08

or they've already started once they get caught up

49:10

in trying to make sure they plan on every

49:12

step of the process and in plan out the

49:14

vision and all that stuff. And I think the

49:16

biggest tip that I've had. I just got back

49:19

from a real estate conference with small time multimillionaires

49:21

talking to them. I think the biggest thing everyone

49:23

can have reiterated his you gotta take Action and

49:25

the action is going to lead you in the

49:27

right direction and you'll be able to pivot if

49:29

you're making a wrong decision. but that's gonna give

49:32

you the swings at bat and. The experience you

49:34

need to be successful Eternal by some real

49:36

estate. Answered: Hanging out with Dustin it has

49:38

you pronounce it. Rupe Time Rubicon through can't

49:40

really say well. Other comments as as yes

49:42

we're definitely busy with the to blogs here

49:44

and that who brands by stuff when something

49:46

that we want to figure out how to

49:48

continue to diversify our assets in cash flow

49:50

into real estate next few years expressly has

49:52

are gross. Get older and get this when

49:54

we have more time on our hands. Airplane

49:57

the digital newest a game by it to

49:59

definitely some. Depreciation, Write

50:01

offs Context I'm sorry about that

50:03

are. Some tips off

50:05

the table like of work and will go

50:07

put this ones and Zeroes in the ether

50:10

in lot of ways I could. you put

50:12

it into something tangible as a more is

50:14

a preservation tactic rather than anything else that

50:16

I love. The action over perfection. You heard

50:18

it here on the side and for south

50:20

couple take ways before we wrap up the

50:22

how are you going to send those authority

50:25

signals to Google? Think about that in every

50:27

Pc content like the days of trying to

50:29

create an anonymous niche site. About whatever random

50:31

topic in trying to stay behind the scenes

50:33

and than ever were to me out of

50:35

can work anymore. It's in the front and

50:37

center, have an opinion, have some and that

50:39

a forty can come over time. It's just

50:41

as be willing to putting the time talking

50:43

about specific topics. The other thing. Like.

50:45

Elements and was really diversifying. diversify, traffic

50:47

sources, diversifying in some sources and to

50:50

the real estate daily. Taken some tips

50:52

at the table as things work but

50:54

balancing that with the simplify. first get

50:56

something were to get, have one thing

50:58

working before you can diversify and finally

51:00

leverage. They were both hands of this

51:03

business model where it increasingly once in

51:05

his like one too many I got

51:07

pretty once, answers thousands and thousands people

51:09

and create something once and sell it

51:11

to thousands and thousands of people. Are

51:14

you looking for business models. With

51:16

some leverage guilty in it's one

51:18

thing. That maybe separates an

51:20

online business like this from a the

51:22

freelancing a consulting business like that. How

51:24

long as the lever Everything so you

51:27

might you think and hate the super

51:29

cool. What to listen to next? Couple

51:31

recommendations for Yes. First out my episode

51:34

was selling Murmur from Travel Mexico Solo.tom

51:36

Fantastic interview on Se O blogging affiliate

51:38

marketing At the time we recorded she

51:41

was running around fifty grand a month

51:43

after just a few years of effort

51:45

like it started to Travel blog Twenty

51:47

Twenty or Tatyana Blogging. That super sailed

51:50

not started relatively recently was doing really well.

51:52

That's episode five seventy three in your are

51:54

times he can score that went down and

51:56

added your list. The other one I had

51:59

in mind is. Into Fever and who

52:01

runs last are like the affiliate display

52:03

plugin software but also runs Gift lab

52:05

is really cool website and co a

52:07

silly a business where you just hear

52:09

it's. Just lists for really specific

52:11

use cases, really specific personalities. and Andrew

52:14

at the time that recording said that

52:16

your flab had earned one point. Two

52:18

million dollars is for five years of

52:20

existence and was interesting. Like your one.

52:23

Zero your to Seven Thousand Year Three

52:25

Forty Thousand is like to like the

52:27

snowball effect of building up the authority

52:30

unlike the library content in that space.

52:32

And that is Episode Five Thirty Seven.

52:34

So Five Seventy Three, Sally Saddlebags I

52:36

Thirty Seven For and His Gift Idea

52:38

website both really creative. Island is this

52:41

case studies I think to get it

52:43

on value from those and. If.

53:03

Thanks so much for sharing your insight.

53:05

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the show. That is it for me.