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0:42

Hey, failing, You're sick. Oh yeah, I'm I'm I'm

0:44

a bit sick. I'm feeling a lot better though.

0:46

So this is actually much better. I sounded like

0:49

Marge Simpson this morning, so you're getting a better

0:51

version of me know? Wow. Okay, you're okay. You're

0:53

okay though. Yeah, I'm or I more. okay. I'm.

0:55

A little to do this, That

0:57

are it. Let's do this. Let's

0:59

do this. Mystery heals all colds

1:01

and coughs. That's not true. It

1:03

would. All right I'm okay. so

1:05

I have a question for you.

1:07

Okay, go for who is your

1:10

favorite Canadian comedian. This a hard

1:12

line. I'm going to go. I'm

1:14

going to save for right now.

1:16

But when yang? Okay good. Oh

1:18

and yang. But when? Yeah. Because

1:20

for when yang. Although he was

1:22

born I believe in Australia at

1:24

six months old, he. Came to

1:26

Canada. They lived in Montreal, so I

1:28

feel like it counts. Yeah, There's

1:32

so many to pick from like Catherine

1:34

O'hara. John Candy, Jim Carrey, Russell

1:36

Peters, Norm Macdonald, Seth Rogan, Will

1:38

Arnett and going to was unless

1:40

a lot of white guy and

1:42

Catherine O'hara and Russell Peters in

1:44

their I See You tried to

1:47

add some diversity. I

1:50

know. And these people, you know, they

1:52

are really funny people who are. There

1:54

is some work needed in terms of

1:56

getting some more diverse folks on that

1:59

list for sure. Yeah. And

2:01

that's not to say there there are

2:03

plenty of talented like brown and black

2:05

comedians in Canada as has like the

2:07

very famous ones are. The. Way

2:10

people. Yeah, I'm and I think it

2:12

is no secret that women have a harder

2:14

time breaking into the world of comedy. And

2:16

and if you're an indigenous woman or a

2:18

woman of color, it's even harder. So.

2:21

One thing is undeniable and I think

2:23

most people live in Canada. Would agree

2:25

that comedy is one of our

2:27

finest exports. So

2:30

today we're going to take a look

2:32

at the roots of Canadian comedy, what

2:34

it is, where it comes from and

2:36

what makes it Canadian. But I also

2:38

wanted to look at why are comedy

2:40

is export it, where does it go

2:42

and why. And I also want to

2:44

take a look at what has how

2:46

or is this a couple of hundred

2:48

years ago and why my like David

2:50

Attenborough attempt wondering where teen comedy goes.

2:52

Anyway I wanted to look at what

2:54

is happening. In the Canadian comedy

2:56

scene now says as the some of it

2:59

really isn't funny at all. I'm

3:01

crazy that rates are doing. Not

3:03

did needing to home and eat.

3:14

So. I really wanted to look at

3:16

how far back I could get when it

3:18

comes to comedy here, and I'm sure indigenous

3:21

folks were cracking jokes in the long house,

3:23

the Wigwam, the Tp, or out on the

3:25

land before settlers got here. So.

3:28

Were you guys can only make jokes

3:30

inside? Not know. And we were out

3:32

on the landing, in definitely out on the

3:34

lam like trust, that sort of some of

3:36

the funniest office. Says

3:38

so. I do know that the you

3:40

know is culturally speaking and terms of

3:43

indigenous humor but the Dakota people. They

3:45

had members of the community who were

3:47

called the He Yoga and they were

3:49

kind of like. Sacred Clowns and

3:51

a lot of other indigenous communities

3:53

had cloud like members in their

3:55

communities. And I want to say

3:58

that using the word. Clown. It

4:00

kind of feels wrong. I don't feel

4:02

like it's the perfect term. A kind

4:05

of downplays the role. I think because

4:07

these community members were often highly revered

4:09

and were important to ceremony. But.

4:11

I'm wondering about tricksters because I've

4:13

I've been taught a bit about

4:16

tricksters in some indigenous communities. They

4:19

often take. A form of

4:21

a bird or. Like a raven

4:23

or other animals? So how does the trickster

4:25

relate to the clam. Yes, So

4:27

you have glue scap out east for

4:30

some first nations folks. you have nana

4:32

bus for and a snobby people and

4:34

we saggy check for some priests. And

4:37

there are many other tricksters.

4:39

Tricksters have different rules in

4:41

each community. And different stories

4:43

vary from place to place. They are

4:45

often. Part hero, part fool.

4:47

Stories about tricksters often include

4:49

things like creation stories and

4:52

the passing on of lessons

4:54

or teachings. right? But

4:56

they are clowns per se.

4:58

Know some. Of what I read does

5:00

point to a relationship. Between tricksters and some

5:02

sacred clowns, these clowns are said to

5:05

be the eyes of the trickster and

5:07

that they could do the tricksters bidding.

5:09

So all of us to say indigenous

5:12

folks have always retained or humor. There's

5:14

been a lot of academic work on

5:16

and on on why we remain funny

5:18

and many point. To it as a

5:20

way of coping with colonization, stereotypes

5:22

and historical. Trauma. I

5:25

and I make sense actually as I

5:27

think when you when you trace the

5:29

lives of most not all but most

5:31

comedians, they will tell you the comedy

5:33

part of their lives kind of kicked

5:35

in as a coping mechanism due to

5:37

some kind of trauma. Yeah, for sure.

5:39

I wanted to reach out to a

5:41

First Nations comedian to get. His perspective:

5:43

People think I'm an expert in it. If

5:45

it is amazing for me to just mess

5:47

with people, you don't mean I love a

5:49

big I don't know if you notice about

5:51

native people, but we love messing with you.

5:53

Why people? Yeah, when? A lot and in

5:55

one hundred me. I

5:58

think it at white people are getting more. The

6:00

it about the culture. Now than that

6:02

you want to learn, You want to

6:04

know about the people you live with,

6:06

The want to know about our traditions

6:08

and customs. And I think that's amazing.

6:10

But like as here to tell you

6:12

tonight, there's more to our traditions and

6:14

customs than just eagles, others, more. But

6:19

would about the eagles though to their bolt

6:21

right? Mixer. But

6:23

what if you want to

6:25

know about smudging neurologist by

6:28

states from the fourth? Ah

6:30

yes, Doesn't come naturally and

6:32

are all urge you have to do like

6:34

that. Much.

6:39

As I mean, I love messy, Were like

6:41

people and they asked us about the culture

6:43

and I'm a I'm a plumber by day.

6:45

I do have a day job. I'm sorry

6:47

to break the illusion that this is what

6:50

I do for a living. I

6:54

have a one year old daughter and her fiance

6:56

in a mortgage. I can survive off two hundred

6:58

dollars. And I mean. That

7:01

sad Anderson on the Cbc radio so laugh

7:03

out loud or that was taped is a

7:05

part of the When A Pen Comedy Festival

7:07

tad. As Cree and white and a stand

7:09

up working in Winnipeg, I asked him why

7:12

he thinks indigenous people are funny. I

7:14

think that. Invisible Hard. Just

7:16

inherently funny people. I think

7:18

it's it's part of. The.

7:21

Culture is part of traditions as part of

7:23

the way of life is like to not

7:25

taking ourselves so seriously and and teasing him

7:28

making fun of each other on a regular

7:30

basis and then mean is he in a

7:32

law that such as like a show of

7:34

loves between our people you know I mean

7:36

as be to getting teased that means we

7:39

like even if you're not getting teased then.

7:41

Better. Ask yourself, what did you do.

7:44

I loved that asking yourself what

7:46

did you do like rubbing each

7:48

other and poking. fun is a

7:50

real part of the culture anyone will

7:53

tell you that sad had a theory

7:55

about where indigenous comedy comes from i

7:57

often wonder where we always this funny

8:00

Or is this a trauma response to

8:02

the obvious traumas that we've been through

8:04

as an entire group of

8:07

people? And I think we

8:09

were always just gifted at

8:11

storytelling. Obviously, all

8:13

of the history and traditions are passed

8:15

down orally. So, I mean,

8:17

right there, you gotta be a

8:20

good storyteller to carry on your

8:22

culture and your traditions, right? I

8:24

so love his theory that it

8:26

comes from oral histories

8:29

and storytelling. Like, you gotta have a

8:31

good hook when you're a storyteller. I

8:35

just love that, that it doesn't always

8:37

have to come down to this big

8:39

traumatic backstory. It's like maybe

8:41

funny was there forever and ever, you know? Yeah.

8:45

And, you know, listen, do

8:47

I think I'm hilarious? Yes, you do.

8:50

I know. I do. I do. And do I

8:52

think it's because I'm First Nations?

8:54

Yeah. Do I laugh at

8:56

my own jokes? All the time. And

8:58

is it cultural? I think it

9:00

is. Okay. Don't tell

9:02

me I'm not being sacred. I

9:04

wasn't gonna say anything. I

9:07

heartily agree with all of those things. So

9:15

when I started digging around in

9:17

early Canadian comedy history, well,

9:20

it was massively boring. Yeah.

9:23

Well, I mean, that's like every

9:25

episode I do. It's

9:28

hard to make this stuff exciting,

9:30

people. Yeah, not

9:33

shocking. And I mean, it also makes

9:35

sense because comedy also withers on the

9:37

vine, you know? It is

9:40

not an art form that you can

9:42

go look back a hundred years into

9:44

and go, wow, that still is relevant.

9:46

What's funny five years ago might

9:48

not even be funny right now, you know?

9:51

Yes. Yes, that's very true. Some comedy ages

9:53

horribly. Yeah. And it's

9:55

usually a result of societal norms

9:57

changing or mostly some doing. being

10:00

a very bad man. He usually comes down

10:02

to that. Yes, yes. But

10:05

I did want to look into early

10:07

settler humor, you know, to be fair

10:10

or whatever. So

10:12

once these settlers moved here, they brought

10:14

with them their concept of humor. And

10:16

eventually these humorists began putting their funny

10:18

ideas down for people to enjoy. And

10:21

well, Leah, would you read

10:23

the following? After

10:26

Mr. Gosling's unfortunate confinement,

10:29

I went to call upon his family, imagining

10:31

that the countenance of an acquaintance

10:33

would help to soothe and keep

10:35

their spirits. Parson, drone

10:38

two, had prepared a long

10:40

discourse upon patience, and

10:42

was come to deliver it. But

10:44

we found them all very cheerful,

10:47

and the parson, unwilling to lose

10:49

his labor, made his visit short

10:51

and carried his discourse to the

10:54

old Caleb Staggers, whose mare had

10:56

just died of the bots. I

11:01

don't even know. I cannot tell

11:03

you any. I don't

11:05

even understand what I just read. And it

11:07

wasn't funny. What is

11:09

bots? Oh, I don't even

11:11

know what that is. So it's

11:13

a parasitic larvae of bot flies

11:16

that attach to the stomach of

11:18

the host. So it's

11:20

a tummy maggots. Now

11:23

that's comfy. Hilarious.

11:25

Great stuff. So

11:28

that was an excerpt from

11:31

Letters of Mafilbochev, Steppeshire by

11:33

Thomas McCulloch. This was

11:35

a series that appeared in the Acadian Recorder in the

11:37

1800s. The letters

11:39

are supposed to be a satirical look

11:41

at Nova Scotia life at the time. And

11:44

I read a bit of it, but

11:47

it just didn't

11:49

grab me. And yes, humor... The bots

11:51

didn't grab you? Yeah, I know. Bots got me, but

11:53

that's about it. And yes,

11:56

humor age is weird, but it did not take

11:58

me long to hit. The

12:00

racism is racist, isn't it? Yeah.

12:03

Yeah. Okay. And

12:05

yet, Thomas McCulloch has been called

12:08

the founder of Canadian humor. Well,

12:11

that tracks. Yeah, I know. It's

12:13

not surprising. The thing that bothers

12:15

me is that no one acknowledges it really.

12:18

It's just that kind of racist grandpa

12:20

mentality. You know, that like, oh, that

12:22

was just the times. And

12:24

I found it frustrating that it isn't

12:26

really acknowledged. So here I am saying

12:28

it, acknowledging it. Well, I

12:31

acknowledge that you're acknowledging a racist

12:33

grandpa. Great. Great. Thank

12:36

you. That's all I need. There we go. Okay.

12:40

to my dating apps these days. You

12:43

know, this is a time. You

12:45

got to change those preferences. Change

12:48

them. I don't know if you can

12:50

do that. That's on you. Yeah, I guess so. Okay.

12:53

I don't even know what I'm talking about. I'm sure there's a

12:55

toggle. There's a toggle. There

12:57

must be a toggle. Maybe. I don't

12:59

know. I'm not looking that hard to

13:01

be honest. Okay. So this

13:04

time the dudes who are sliding

13:06

into the history DMs are a

13:08

guy named Thomas Halberton and

13:10

a guy named Stephen Leacock. Our

13:12

historian Andrea pointed out to me that this

13:15

guy Leacock, he actually has a building named

13:17

after him at McGill University. And

13:20

he has been called out as a racist,

13:22

a misogynist and an anti-Semite. Those

13:24

are always the guys who have buildings named after them.

13:26

Yeah, you want a building? That's

13:30

what you have to do. Be

13:32

an asshole. Anyway, so

13:34

all of these guys, they write some stuff,

13:36

but it's all kind of more of the

13:39

same. It's worth mentioning

13:41

that these names Halberton, Leacock and McCallick come

13:43

up a lot when talking about the early

13:46

days of comedy in Canada, but they aren't

13:48

the full picture. There are so

13:50

many people writing funny things, but it's hard to

13:52

track some of those people. Right.

13:54

I Mean, it's impossible to know what funny

13:57

things were happening across the country. Also, a

13:59

lot of it was recorded right and so.

14:02

Yeah, like you can't really keep track of

14:04

what's happening in like regions you know, like

14:06

if it would be incredibly hard to track

14:08

all of those things, I'm so the next

14:11

major marker that I could identify Canadian comedies

14:13

would com with the world. Make.

14:17

Sense War is comedy gold or

14:19

know. I'm assuming that kind of

14:21

entertainment would have been about boosting

14:24

morale and keeping spirits up in

14:26

in this terrible time. Yeah, So

14:28

early and World War One, there were

14:30

soldiers who just kind of took it

14:32

upon themselves to entertain the men that

14:34

they were fighting alongside. Are these soldiers,

14:37

took on rules of musicians and story

14:39

and just kind of entertained. Humor was

14:41

really important at this time. Which.

14:43

Is true for. Most difficult

14:45

times, humor is so important.

14:47

Yeah, I'm my heart. agree.

14:50

Is is the thing him. By

14:52

nineteen sixteen, the Canadian government was

14:54

organizing concerts and acts, and by

14:56

the end of the war. On

14:58

most all divisions had some kind

15:00

of entertainment, most notably one troop.

15:02

Called the Dumbbells. It

15:05

sounds like that and nineteen sixteen

15:07

comedy troupe named Daniela? Yeah, Yeah!

15:09

So the group was formed in

15:11

nineteen seventeen years Amy Ridge and

15:13

there was about ten members arm

15:15

and they took their name from

15:17

their divisions emblem which was a

15:20

dumbbell. The group consisted of brothers

15:22

Martin and L. Plunkett, Alan Murray,

15:24

Jack Air and others, but one

15:26

member of the group really got

15:28

my attention. Ross Hamilton. Cross

15:31

Hamilton played Marjorie and it

15:33

was common for these troops

15:35

have men in drag to

15:37

portray female characters. Marjorie is

15:39

outset was made from canvas,

15:42

from tense curtains, feathers from

15:44

pillows, and rosary beads. Or

15:46

sometimes even Marjorie had gowns

15:48

donated. The character seems to

15:50

have been somewhat of a

15:52

celebrity. I found this quote

15:54

about Ross/marjorie. When.

15:56

Ross marched into a mess and a

15:58

cost him every office. Or would stand

16:01

to attention until he the seat it.

16:03

Then in a truck drivers voice, he'd

16:05

call for a drink and the illusion

16:07

soon vanished. When

16:10

Canada during World War Two, Ross was

16:12

there enlisting with the Royal. Canadian Army

16:14

Medical Corps, but also working as

16:16

an entertainer. This time Ross played

16:18

an opera singer. He had a

16:20

beautiful falsetto. Here's a clip from

16:23

an interview done in the sixties.

16:25

Were some of the members of

16:27

the dumbbells remember Ross and his

16:29

performance. I wonder if it's possible

16:31

to. Describe Ross

16:33

Hamilton. Know

16:35

assist Assist Ross was not a

16:37

particularly good looking man off stage.

16:39

He was nice looking. But.

16:42

It was uncanny was a dose of makeup

16:44

went to some because he didn't put on

16:46

a particularly good make up to the he

16:48

slapped of on pretty much for the whitewash

16:51

bush was he was a raving beauty. There

16:54

was no doubt about. The

16:56

stone. Is saw he

16:59

always remained a young lady. He

17:02

was never a girl. He was

17:04

never a married woman. He was a young

17:06

lady. And he dressed

17:08

of packed to the park without

17:11

being conscious. He never consciously set

17:13

on the young lady the stance

17:15

he wore these beautiful gowns because

17:17

we were Leonard John had a

17:20

connection with Fit with own court

17:22

dismissed establishing made this say lettuce

17:24

and dresses skirts practically nothing just

17:26

simply say the didn't given to

17:28

us and the has a beautiful

17:31

job. Beautiful. But

17:33

does he was All was a young lady. The

17:36

sorts of any the soldiers could

17:38

take home and introduced to mother and

17:41

that. During

17:47

World War Two, the military found out

17:49

that Ross was clear. Day and he

17:52

was discharged from the service

17:54

for reasons. Other than medical, yeah,

17:56

that was a common way to get

17:58

queer people out a survey. Yeah.

18:01

Ugh. A quiet. we're pushing people out.

18:03

I'm other reason someone could be discharged

18:05

for reasons other than medical. could have

18:08

been drunkenness or criminal activity. Ross would

18:10

go on to live a quiet life,

18:12

retiring and a log cabin in Nova

18:15

Scotia. That seem

18:17

sad but center nice to yeah. And

18:19

and I should mention that that you

18:21

know a lot of the men who dressed

18:23

in drag in these were entertainment troops.

18:25

You know they they might. Not be clear.

18:28

I mean. They. Might have been, but it's hard to.

18:30

Know, I mean honestly, I think everyone's a bit

18:33

gay, so everyone. Is a little the gay right?

18:35

Exactly. But he wasn't It wasn't safe to come

18:37

out at this time. And no, no,

18:39

the humor of many of these wartime

18:41

troops, including the dumbbells, was often rooted

18:43

in the style of performances that you'd

18:46

see in the music halls of England.

18:48

But life on the frontlines was what

18:50

really made up the subject matter. The

18:52

group perform songs and skits about the

18:54

day to day life of soldiers. This

18:56

combo made for some dark humor. The

18:58

style was light of the content was

19:00

often dark. That's the best comedy, I

19:02

think you know. Yeah, Some

19:04

have even said that this style of humor

19:07

would influence the. Creation of comedy shows

19:09

like Monty. Python's Sctv, and even Saturday

19:11

Night Live. There's a great book by

19:13

Jason Wilson called Soldiers Are Soaring that

19:16

digs into a lot of this history

19:18

and we will link to it on.

19:20

Our website if you wanna check that out. But.

19:23

Like we have already mentioned, everything

19:25

that the dumbbells did. Wasn't.

19:28

Perfect. They. Didn't

19:30

have blackface performances well and month

19:32

surprise flop faceless. A widely acceptable

19:34

form of entertainment at the time.

19:36

And if you want to hear

19:38

more on that, you can check

19:40

out our episode on Blackface from

19:42

season three. So much blackface. Okay,

19:44

so but back to the dumbbells.

19:46

So what else were they were

19:48

they doing at this time? Well,

19:50

yeah, the dumbbells would go. On

19:52

to perform beyond World War One

19:54

and World War Two. Their. Review:

19:57

Best Bang Bang was the first

19:59

Canadian show. to appear on Broadway. Well

20:01

that's huge. You see where Blackface can take

20:03

you folks? Like from middle

20:06

of Canada and nowhere in the 1900s to Broadway.

20:10

Oh boy. Don't

20:13

do it everyone. This

20:16

is not an endorsement of Blackface. Okay.

20:21

All right I'm not endorsing it. I didn't. During

20:28

the war comedy shows on the radio helped

20:30

to entertain people at home but also on

20:33

the front. As early as

20:35

the 30s there were radio sketch show

20:37

programs like Au Coin de Fure, Le

20:39

Ville Recontour, and Le Berge de

20:41

la Forre Noir. Okay

20:44

so based on those badly pronounced

20:46

names. I thought that was pretty good. I'm

20:48

gonna guess they were all coming out of

20:50

Quebec. You know what they were fine. They

20:52

were better than what I could do. I'm

20:54

just making a joke. That's good enough for

20:56

me. That's a humor episode. Yeah. Supposed to

20:58

be a humor episode. Okay. So they were

21:00

all Quebecois kind of sketch shows. Yeah

21:03

so Quebec has its own humor and humor

21:05

history. A good portion of the rest of

21:07

the country was getting more and more of its comedy from

21:09

the US. Canadian networks

21:11

didn't love this so they began making their

21:13

own shows. There were shows

21:15

like The Happy Gang and Wayne and Schuster.

21:19

Wayne and Schuster, I definitely recognize their names. And

21:21

they have a picture actually on the wall somewhere.

21:23

I think it's like the third or fourth floor

21:26

at CBC. They were a huge act at the

21:28

time I think. Yeah so

21:30

Johnny Wayne and Frank Schuster grew

21:32

up together. They went to high

21:34

school and university. And during World

21:36

War II they started working on The

21:38

Army Show. It would start as a live musical

21:40

review and then move to the radio. After

21:43

the war the duo got their own show on

21:45

CBC, The Wayne and Schuster Comedy Hour. The

21:48

show was so successful it was picked up around the

21:50

world. In

21:52

the 50s the show moved to TV. Wayne

21:54

and Schuster left a big legacy in

21:56

Canadian Comedy. They appeared on the Ed

21:59

Sullivan Show. Sixty seven times more

22:01

than any other guests, and they were often

22:03

asked to relocate to the U S, but

22:05

they always refused. They felt like they belonged

22:08

in Canada, Okay, so fun fact.

22:10

Ah, when I used to discuss a

22:12

long time ago a teacher of mine

22:14

had as perform for this thing the

22:16

Wayne and Schuster Outrun song. And

22:19

I'm here to tell you it is a. Great.

22:21

Closer of a Song. To

22:24

be one and all that. Is

22:28

actually. Really get a say

22:30

yes? and. Go.

22:35

If it's if there's a hundred eighty

22:37

six months of when it's used his

22:39

comedy. Was. It was very literary.

22:41

the often parodied Shakespeare I'm I

22:43

listen to an interview where they

22:45

were referred to as literary slapstick.

22:47

Which I think is pretty fitting The

22:50

duo would work together until. The Death

22:52

of Wayne and Nineteen Ninety. I just

22:54

Wayne and know that was not be

22:56

us because we're getting die to. Yes,

22:59

there has. A

23:01

career heat, not ominous. Wow,

23:04

we're already seeing you. Could.

23:07

You say? stay tuned for that Up

23:09

with the South Philly and failing side

23:11

effects. Of.

23:15

Ah dirt. Humor? okay, and.

23:18

Speaking of slapstick, Because I was

23:20

speaking about slapstick. Some. Time ago.

23:22

Ah, okay, did you know that that

23:24

style of comedy was invented by Canadian.

23:26

The. Didn't know that. Ah, slapstick

23:28

is like the very exaggerated

23:31

kind of physical, sometimes violent

23:33

humor sink slipping on a

23:35

banana peel. Them or you

23:37

know, apply to the face, that

23:39

kind of thing, Yes sir,

23:41

he was invented by Mack Sennett. He

23:44

was an actor, director, and producer. Was

23:46

born in Quebec. He is credited

23:48

with creating the slapstick genre with

23:50

in film. that's very very

23:52

cool and this style comedy was all

23:54

over the place with performers like charlie

23:57

chaplin the three stooges or the marx

23:59

brothers is that kind of those kind

24:01

of acts. Yeah in the early

24:03

1900s Mac headed to Hollywood and opened

24:05

a studio and it did well for

24:07

a while but as the silent film

24:10

era declined so did Mac's career. He

24:12

was given an Academy Award in 1938 for his lasting

24:16

contribution to the comedy technique of

24:18

the screen. Hmm yeah that style

24:20

of comedy was really dominant for a

24:23

long time. Yes and it

24:25

had a huge influence on comedy and you can

24:27

still see that influence in movies like Dumb

24:30

and Dumber, Home Alone, Naked Gun.

24:33

Starring Regina's own Leslie Nielsen.

24:35

I love that movie

24:37

so much. I know you love it so

24:39

much. It's broad and it's cheesy and it

24:41

perfectly sends up the dragnet

24:44

police dramas that were so popular

24:46

in the 40s and 50s and

24:48

60s. Mm-hmm it's what it is one of

24:50

my personal faves. Here's Leslie

24:53

in 1988's The Naked Gun.

24:55

Yes well when I see five weirdos

24:57

dressed in togas stabbing a guy in

24:59

the middle of the park and full

25:01

view of a hundred people I shoot

25:03

the best. That's my policy. That was

25:05

a Shakespeare in the park production of

25:07

Julius Caesar you moron. You

25:10

killed five actors. Good

25:12

ones. The

25:16

next milestone in Canadian comedy that I

25:18

want to touch on here is The

25:20

Second City. Leah you worked there

25:23

right? You were a member of

25:25

the touring company. I was. I had the

25:27

pleasure of doing sketch and improv in every

25:29

resort and event center in northern and

25:32

southern Ontario. It was

25:34

huge. What a career. Yeah no but Second City

25:36

taught me a lot 99% of

25:39

which I can't repeat on this podcast for a

25:41

great reason. Okay well Second City opened its Toronto doors in

25:43

1973. Right and there had already

25:50

been a Second City in Chicago that

25:52

had been operating since the 50s and

25:54

it got its name because New York

25:56

was considered the center of the comedy

25:58

world in the US. So

26:00

it was considered the first city of

26:02

comedy and that's why the Chicago Club

26:05

called itself You know Italian cheap the

26:07

second city, right? I went

26:09

to Toronto branch open they had no liquor

26:11

license no air conditioning and barely any audience

26:14

And Toronto was a bit different from Chicago. It

26:16

was a bit goofier a little

26:19

scrappier Reading about those early days

26:21

the scene sounds like almost punk to

26:23

me Which almost feel

26:25

central to Canadian comedy There's something

26:27

other about it, but you can't

26:29

really put your finger on on

26:32

what makes it different Yeah,

26:35

and second city Toronto it did have

26:37

tons of talent people like Dan Aykroyd

26:39

Gilda Radner John Candy Robin

26:41

Duke Dave Thomas Rick Moranis

26:43

Catherine O'Hara Eugene Levy and

26:45

Joe Flaherty It's

26:47

wild to think that that's like

26:49

one generation of comedians I know

26:52

the talent all became comedy legends

26:54

really In

27:01

the mid 70s a big comedy game

27:03

changer came to the small school Savings

27:07

time let's gain an air

27:10

and lose a president Yes,

27:19

of course Saturday Night Live and

27:22

that that clip sounds like another Canadian

27:24

funnyman That's Jim Carrey playing president Joe

27:26

Biden on the show back in 2020

27:28

and the show was created by Canadian

27:33

Lauren Michaels. Yeah Lauren

27:35

grew up in Toronto and while attending

27:37

University He started performing on stage and

27:39

was hired by the CBC to write

27:42

for some radio shows He then headed

27:44

to LA to write for some other comedy shows

27:46

But eventually he got his own show on

27:49

the CBC and headed back to Canada This

27:51

was the heart and Lauren terrific hour the

27:54

show ran for three years, but shortly after in

27:56

1975 Lauren

27:58

was hired by NBC to create create a

28:00

show that would replace reruns of the Tonight Show.

28:03

This became Saturday Night Live.

28:05

And at the time of recording this, Saturday

28:08

Night Live is in its 49th

28:10

season, which makes it

28:12

the longest running TV program in

28:15

history. Wow. And

28:18

it all started at the CBC kind of not

28:20

really, but sort of in a way. Let's

28:22

take credit for that. Okay.

28:25

Okay. Back in

28:27

Canada, Second City was taking its stage

28:29

show to TV as well with the

28:32

creation of SCTV in 1976. That's

28:38

right. Filmed in Edmonton, Alberta,

28:41

just one year after SNL,

28:44

SCTV launched. Yeah.

28:46

And staying true to its roots, SCTV

28:48

was a bit wild, a bit

28:50

ruckus. The show ran from 76

28:53

to 83 in the US and in Canada, and it

28:56

would go on to air reruns after that

28:58

and sort of find a cult following. SCTV

29:01

launched even more comedy careers.

29:03

People like Andrea Martin and

29:06

Hamilton's own Martin Short. Some

29:08

cast members like Martin Short eventually did sort

29:10

of get poached by SNL. I

29:13

mean, I'm sure you can't blame him and

29:15

everybody else for going to the US. The

29:17

show was such a juggernaut there

29:19

and it was huge. Yeah. Many

29:21

Canadian comedians made their way to

29:23

SNL via Second City, the stage

29:26

show or SCTV. Lauren Michaels

29:28

would go on to have a hand in

29:30

another Canadian comedic classic, The Kids in the

29:32

Hall. Kids in the Hall did

29:35

Blackface. Yes. Just,

29:37

I just thought I would mention that. I know, I know.

29:39

I know. I knew we weren't getting out of this episode

29:42

without mentioning that. Yeah. Yeah. Moving on.

29:45

Yes. Okay. So Lauren's credits are

29:47

lengthy. He's done everything from animation

29:49

to sitcoms to blockbuster movies

29:51

like Wayne's World. Which was

29:53

written and starring Scarvo's own

29:55

Mike Myers. Yes, that's right.

29:58

The Canadian influence on comedy. is

30:00

massive. But why do so many

30:02

of our funny folks have to leave to

30:04

get recognized here? Navigating

30:18

the travel world doesn't have to

30:20

be complicated. Whether you want to

30:22

hack your points in miles, figure out

30:24

where to travel next, or you just

30:26

need advice on an ethical dilemma. I'm

30:29

Aislinn Green, host of Unpacked By a

30:31

Far. And in the brand new season,

30:33

we are unpacking the most captivating and

30:35

challenging topics in the travel industry, one

30:38

conversation at a time. Topics

30:40

like the sexiness of travel insurance and

30:42

the perils of quote unquote bad tourism.

30:44

And even the secrets of flying with

30:46

children and not losing your mind in

30:48

the process. Listen to Unpacked

30:51

By a Far wherever you get your podcasts. A

30:55

few months back, I reached out to Sandra Batalini.

30:57

She's a stand up comedian writer

30:59

and is also an activist. She

31:02

put out a documentary a few years back, The

31:04

Mayor of Comedy Town. And it's

31:06

all about the state of Canadian comedy. And I

31:09

found it pretty shocking. Hi, my name is

31:11

Sandra Batalini, and I'm a comedian based out

31:13

of Toronto. In the doc,

31:15

Sandra breaks down a bunch of aspects as

31:17

to why she thinks the Canadian comedy industry

31:20

is kind of busted. There

31:22

is a serious lack of support for Canadian

31:24

comedians. Many of the

31:26

big media organizations here, they just aren't

31:28

making content. And why is that? Well,

31:31

because it's just cheaper to air American shows.

31:34

Right, instead of making them here. Exactly.

31:37

The industry isn't really investing in

31:39

homegrown content. There are exceptions,

31:41

of course, but there is this

31:43

section in Sandra's doc where she breaks down

31:45

what is airing on Canadian TV. And it's basically

31:47

just a big bang theory over and over. Yeah.

31:51

The other thing Sandra talks about is about

31:53

getting paid. Getting paid as a

31:56

comedian is really hard. Yeah,

31:58

hard or, you know, really non-existent.

32:00

I mean, I think people are

32:02

often asked to be

32:04

paid in, quote, exposure or, you

32:06

know, drink tickets at clubs or,

32:09

or just a really small fee.

32:11

It kind of reminds me

32:13

of what Chad said off the top of the

32:15

episode about having another job because, you know, 200

32:18

bucks a night isn't enough to live on.

32:20

And 200 bucks a night is huge for

32:22

a lot of comedians. Like you're, you're, try

32:25

20 bucks a night. Yeah. And, and, you know, and

32:27

Chad is now a full time comedian, but it took

32:29

him 15 years to get there. So

32:33

how to fix this? How can comedians make

32:35

a decent wage for what they do? Sandra

32:38

had an idea. She helped to

32:40

start the Canadian Association of Standup,

32:42

Sketch, and Improv Comedians. The

32:45

mandate was to have comedy recognized as an

32:47

art form. That was really the basis of it,

32:49

but also to make it easier for comedians to

32:51

cross the border. It's

32:53

a voice for comedians to lobby for

32:55

comedians rights. So, you know, the right

32:58

to be acknowledged, the right to, you

33:00

know, be supported through these funding bodies

33:02

that support culture. Funding

33:04

bodies like the Canada Council for the Arts,

33:07

they fund things like visual arts, theater and

33:09

music, but not comedy,

33:12

not comedy. I asked Sandra about

33:14

this. Comedy isn't art. Like

33:16

people would debate it. Is it art? Is it

33:18

not art? You know, in the

33:20

documentary, Kenny Robinson was saying, you know, some nights

33:22

you're just babysitting chunks, but other

33:24

nights when it's a, you're like,

33:26

this is a piece, you know, this

33:28

can be a masterpiece. I've been to many shows

33:30

that are funded by the Canada Council for the

33:32

Arts and that ain't art. If you're going to

33:35

tell me this, like you're not telling me anything,

33:37

you know what I mean? Because what is art?

33:39

You know, that's a bigger conversation. Another

33:41

issue that Sandra talks a lot about is

33:44

the visa process. Right. So

33:46

if a comedian wants to work outside

33:48

of Canada, they need to work visa.

33:50

Yes. And specifically, if they want to

33:52

work in the US, I asked Sandra

33:54

to talk me through the visa process. So there's like

33:56

an old one, which is a three year

33:59

film TV visa. So a lot of

34:01

the clubs like they mostly recognize it and

34:03

then you could do some film in TV. The

34:06

P1, it's a P-Visa and that's

34:09

a circus visa that was created

34:11

from Cirque du Soleil because they had all these

34:13

performers, you know, Cirque du Soleil is huge. So

34:16

they made Cirque du Soleil into an art

34:18

form and created this classification. So

34:21

all of this to say if you can get

34:23

a visa, it can cost anywhere between $5,000 and

34:25

$10,000 and

34:28

you need to have a US-based agent or

34:30

attorney to help you with that. And

34:33

this intensive visa process means that

34:35

some people have to lie to get

34:37

across the border. Like

34:39

I heard stories about some people who have

34:41

to say that they are literally clowns to

34:44

be able to use the P-Visa, the

34:46

circus visa. It's wild because

34:48

you would think that nobody wants more

34:50

clowns in their country. You

34:52

know what I mean? Like you would not think

34:54

that the doorway to the United States is... The

34:57

people love Cirque. ...is to say that you're a

34:59

clown. But then actually if you consider everything that's

35:02

going on there right now, maybe it makes more

35:04

sense. Like bringing the clowns... I just think it

35:06

would be really funny to like... ...than in the clowns. I just

35:08

think it'd be really funny to like do something with your carry-on

35:10

luggage to be like, no, I'm a clown. And

35:12

like you open up your suitcase and like

35:14

snakes... ...bop out. ...and like you're

35:16

going through, you go up to immigration and

35:19

you have a red nose on. I

35:21

think we need to give credit to

35:23

Cirque du Soleil there here though because

35:25

that's how good they are. That

35:27

they have convinced

35:30

the United States to let in more clowns

35:32

into their country. Yeah.

35:34

Okay? Shout out to Cirque du Soleil.

35:36

I mean, Quebec gets stuff done. I'm not going to lie. No,

35:38

they know what they're doing and it's good. Yeah.

35:41

Unfortunately though, I did read some horror stories

35:43

about other comedians that went through the process

35:45

and then they were told that there

35:47

were issues with their visa and they had

35:49

to pull them and lose thousands of dollars. There

35:52

was one story that I read where a comedian went

35:55

through the process twice. Once she

35:57

had to pull her visa because she was flagged

35:59

as not... Having enough credits.

36:01

Are and the second time she got

36:03

flagged at the airport because even though

36:06

she was doing unpaid gigs, the venue

36:08

was collecting. And admission fee. Move

36:10

That Sucks Banner, You know so many.

36:12

Comedians do end up going down to the

36:14

States. To work. That's true So much or

36:17

our talent does make their way over

36:19

there and. They stay, but it can

36:21

be a big risk if you mess

36:23

up that visa process. It can take

36:25

like three years before you can apply

36:27

again, but the market is bigger, there

36:29

are more opportunities so some people think

36:32

it's worth the risk, even just for

36:34

a bit. I reached out

36:36

to someone who could talk to me

36:38

more about the allure of the Us

36:41

Market Farm and spread a packet of

36:43

I Emery Tommy ready for television. I'm

36:45

I'm also a sketch comedy and improv

36:47

performer. Recent one. Hey Brand

36:50

then. I know

36:52

listeners may recognize Brandon's voice. He's

36:54

helped us out on some live

36:56

shows on you can listen to

36:58

one off from season two, Toronto

37:00

Vs Everybody. Brandon is an interesting

37:02

position right now. I think

37:05

a lot of people find to be

37:07

we've reached a ceiling year. That.

37:09

There's only kind of as far as can go. And.

37:13

I think a lot of people for example,

37:15

with aspirations pounds. We. Be

37:17

so running, for example. Feel

37:20

like. They're. Unable to kind of

37:22

breakthrough here in Canada. Just.

37:24

By being on whatever shows around sober, go

37:26

to the states. To

37:28

garner more experience and.

37:32

In the States even though obviously.

37:35

Been freaking last year and and there are

37:37

fewer and fewer of these there are still

37:40

be sort of like longer running like network

37:42

network shows. My. Partner and I've

37:44

been talking about potentially. Me:

37:46

For a brief period. Trying. Away it

37:48

was something that I. i

37:51

i i kind of told myself that i

37:53

would never go to l se or be

37:55

of i love canada i love it here

37:57

and i love working here i think there's

37:59

a lot of interesting work that is getting

38:01

made and can continue to come out of

38:03

here, but just because things are a little bit slow

38:05

here, it kind of feels a little

38:07

bit like in order to be

38:09

able to push my career a little bit

38:11

further and push sort of what I want to do and what

38:13

I want to say a little bit further that

38:16

might necessitate even like a

38:18

brief move to LA as a sort

38:20

of temporary thing. I do intend to kind

38:22

of just come back. So

38:25

Brandon would leave to come

38:28

back. Yeah. To

38:31

get more experience and to have

38:33

that sort of American shine on

38:35

him. Chad, the comedian we

38:37

heard from earlier, also spoke about this. I

38:40

think there are a lot of other comics with that

38:42

mentality of like, I have to go to the States

38:44

at least for a little bit and

38:46

book things and get successful down there before

38:48

I can come back. And that is an

38:50

unfortunate part of the industry here is that

38:53

I didn't I don't know what it is,

38:55

but if you have a United States TV

38:57

credit or a festival credit or something down

38:59

there, then people up here are like, Oh,

39:01

well, he was successful down there. But it's

39:03

like, I don't know, I'm successful

39:05

here. What doesn't matter? You know, and

39:07

I think

39:09

part of that is not even really an industry

39:11

problem. I think that's just like, we

39:14

get so much of our entertainment from the

39:16

States. Another issue,

39:18

a lot of comics I spoke with pointed

39:21

out is that Canada doesn't have a star

39:23

system. Here's Brandon. A lot

39:25

of people talk about how we need more

39:28

of a star system here, just

39:30

to make promoting shows a lot

39:32

easier and to kind of give

39:35

the talent that we have here more of a

39:37

reason to kind of keep being here

39:39

because I feel like a lot of Canadian

39:41

talent will have a few really good years

39:43

on like a really good show. And then once that

39:45

shows over, then it's sort of like, who are they

39:47

again? You know, like Simu Liu, for example, really

39:50

great actor after the ending

39:52

of Kim's, I'm sure he'd have found something interesting

39:54

to do, But I

39:56

feel like maybe the next thing he would have done might have

39:58

been like another, like a lateral move. Movie: no Way

40:00

to found something and a comparable show.

40:03

Ah, whereas use the States right now

40:05

and he's he's single Yoshida huh? Like

40:07

if is some Cds ten you know

40:09

he's really really big. So. There's

40:11

no star system in Canada, there

40:14

aren't enough opportunities, and the visa

40:16

process is really. Hard and Accidents

40:18

as. Camel. Yes, And

40:20

I should say that that. The. Club Aquaculture

40:22

is much better at prioritizing fostering

40:25

ah and supporting it's talent and

40:27

making that star system. But

40:29

wider Canada doesn't and you can

40:31

see evidence of that. Was some

40:34

comedy festivals giving. Main stage spots

40:36

to Americans are comments or comics

40:38

from other places. I mean. That.

40:40

Is when we had a big comedy

40:43

festival. While he was researching this episode,

40:45

this happened. Organizers

40:48

of the annual com The Fast say

40:50

stare canceling this year's edition of Just

40:52

for Laughs. The event has been a

40:54

summertime staple in Montreal for more than

40:56

four years. At the Twenty Twenty

40:59

Four edition of the Montreal Just for

41:01

Laughs Festival is cancelled, the group is

41:03

ethel they announced today it is seeking

41:05

credit or for Texas and will have

41:08

to restructure the confident. Rest:

41:13

Yeah yeah so we are wide started

41:15

to put this episode together Just for

41:18

last, the biggest comedy festival in the

41:20

world was cancelled. But. I just have

41:22

to say that just for last. Was.

41:25

Trash in the way that it

41:27

paid artists. Or. Really

41:29

didn't pay artists and comedians you

41:31

know it. It was huge but

41:33

it had a lot as issues

41:35

and it it really it's Salt

41:37

Lake. American comics were the priority

41:40

guess and is kind of a reason

41:42

behind that because while it is costly

41:44

and difficult for Canadians to work in

41:46

the Us, Americans can come to Canada

41:49

pretty easily and work. And

41:52

just for laughs with sometimes called out

41:54

for prioritizing American Thailand like let's see

41:56

the look at last year's lineup. Alley?

41:59

Wrong. Drag performer Trixie Mattel

42:01

from Queer Eye, Jonathan Vinesse,

42:04

Russell Peters. Okay,

42:06

so there's one one Canadian in that

42:08

headline? Yeah, who I'm

42:10

pretty sure lives in the US now. But

42:12

the point is, if the biggest comedy festival

42:15

in the world based in Canada was kind

42:17

of putting Canadians in the corner, then

42:20

maybe this is a chance to

42:22

rebuild what seems kind of broken. Hmm,

42:26

yeah, I mean, so through all this,

42:29

what have we learned here? Well, that

42:31

Canadians are Canada breeds funny people, but

42:33

why? I know a lot

42:35

of people point to our connection to

42:37

the British, our colonial roots. Someone

42:40

I spoke to said, Canadians are just different

42:42

enough for Americans to laugh at. The

42:45

Canadians are like them, but just different

42:47

enough. I asked Brandon what he thought.

42:50

I think that a good sense

42:52

of humor often arises out of the

42:54

feeling of being ignored

42:57

or being like a little sibling a little

42:59

bit. And I do feel like Canada has

43:01

that sort of like little sibling kind

43:04

of energy in comparison to the States.

43:06

I don't think that our sort of like sense of humor

43:08

is necessarily always a reaction to

43:11

America, but I do think that the

43:13

self-deprecating nature of a lot of Canadian

43:15

comedy, at least as I understand it

43:17

and as I practice it, does come

43:19

from the sense of being

43:21

a small guy compared to the sort of

43:23

like bigger entity. So what does

43:25

Canada need to do to support its funny

43:27

people? I really think that the

43:29

best thing for Canada would be to support the

43:32

talent that's here instead of just being

43:34

known for exporting people to

43:36

the States and then celebrating only the Canadians who've

43:38

managed to make a big difference. So

43:42

in the spirit of this episode, I

43:45

want to tell you, dear listener, check out

43:47

Brandon Hackett's work. He's written for shows like

43:49

Run the Burbs, This Hour Has 22 Minutes,

43:52

Tall Boys, Shelved, and he's

43:54

an improviser. Check

43:56

out Sandra Batalini. She's on tour this

43:59

summer. up to Ottawa,

44:01

Hamilton and Montreal. And check

44:03

out Chad Anderson. He's on

44:05

tour in Manitoba, Saskatchewan and

44:07

Alberta and we will link to

44:09

those dates. Go

44:12

see your local comedy because the world

44:14

is hard and there are

44:16

funny people everywhere. And

44:22

in the spirit of Wayne and Schuster... This

45:04

episode of The Secret Life of Canada was written

45:07

and produced by me, Phelan Johnson. And

45:09

me, Leah Simone Bowen, with sound design

45:11

and editing by Graham MacDonald. Script editing

45:14

is by Yvette Nolan, with research assistance by

45:16

Andrea Eidinger and CBC Archives. Our

45:18

logo is by Batawogan Illustration and

45:20

Design. For CBC Podcast, the

45:22

coordinating producer is Roshani Nair. Kate

45:25

Evans is the senior producer and the

45:27

executive producer is Cecil Fernandez. The director

45:29

of CBC Podcast is Araf Noorani. You

45:32

can find us on our socials at The Secret Life of

45:34

Canada. Show notes and

45:36

links for this episode are on

45:38

our website at cbc.ca.ca. Share

45:41

your thoughts on our Spotify

45:43

feed or reach us by

45:45

email, secretlifeofcanada.ca. Thanks

45:48

for exploring Canada's hidden history with us. For

45:57

more CBC Podcasts, go to

45:59

cbc.ca.ca. web.ca slash podcasts.